tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-69184381501835300092024-03-28T18:18:31.294+00:00setting up a shopshopping cart software, economics, UK manufacturing: a blog with a terrible nameVeganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.comBlogger1041500tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-64822337245503211122023-12-27T20:37:00.018+00:002024-01-12T16:34:00.015+00:00Shopping Cart Software: why did I choose Thirtybees and should you?<blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;"><i>I was just going to write to someone what shopping cart software I use, because it's more specific than talking about what kind of website writing skills I can explain or can't explain. More useful to anyone wondering what to do themselves</i>.</p></blockquote><p></p><h2 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><a href="http://Thirtybees.com">Thirtybees.com</a> ecommerce software is...</span></h2><p></p><p></p><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">On web servers' one click installers: Softaculous, Fantastico: not Installatron</span></h3><p></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p>These list loads of free software that you can install on your server at the click of a few buttons, if constraints like space allow. Its an alternative to buying an online service like Bigcommerce where the software, software maintenance and hosting are all bundled together and you pay £20 a month or so but it probably works first time. The people who run the service can lock you out of all the detailed features and let you access them for more money, or they can make something impossible for no reason, but they probably provide some sort of help email address and they probably make sure that the thing works as described. This is rather attractive. When you install your own software and something obscure goes wrong, suddenly you are the one who has to find out why.</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p>The main installers are</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p><a href="https://softaculous.com/apps/ecommerce/thirty_bees">Softaculous.com/apps/ecommerce/thirty_bees</a>, </p><p><a href="https://netenberg.com/fantastico-scripts.html">Fantastico</a>, and </p><p><a href="https://installatron.com/apps">Installatron</a> - the only one that doesn't list it. A few web hosts have their own cut-down installers which just install one or two programs, like Zacky for Attractsoft sites, and Thirtybees isn't on those. The other chain of free web hosts, Byethost, uses Softaculous so you can install but the program is too large to work on their cut-down-limited bit of server space. If you want to run shopping cart sofware on free hosting, I am not sure the choices but Litecart looks likely to work. It is much more limited in what it can do but might be worth a try. It doesn't allow pages of free text by default, and there is a charge for some of the modules which takes away the "free" bi </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p><a href="http://Veganline.com">Veganline.com</a> was installed from Softaculous and at first there was space to install a backup copy but some kind of bloat has made this trickier now. There were 104 products at the last glance, many of them like vegan shoes available in up to twelve different sizes so there is a potential for bloat. It's also possbile to have a backup of the site from years ago and loose track of it, and to have un-needed versions of photos for eah of your products. If you take revolving pictures - say twelve - of your proruct from two angles then this can be a lot of pictures. One module called database cleaner claims to find unwanted photos and zap them. I am tempted to take the risk.</p></blockquote><p></p><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Small enough to run on cheap hosting, but not free hosting from Attractsoft or Byethost. Also uses free modules</span></h3><p></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;"><b>Hosting.co.uk is the shared server I use @ £36 a year or £3 a month </b> if I remember right, without VAT and when I signed-up there was simple pricing over time. It looks as though this has changed and that £3 a month is now an introductory offer with all the hassle of changing servers when the deal runs-out. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;"> A secure server would have cost me more without a messy work-around with Cloudflare that would need a separate page to explain. There is another server that might cost a little bit more and have a secure server ready to use - I would have to check on <a href="https://forum.thirtybees.com">https://forum.thirtybees.com</a> . The trouble with some of the other cheap ones is that the price goes up after a year and you have to do all the hassle again so I am not sure the cheapest no-hassle price. I know that the cheapest domain price is usually from Cloudflare although I used Penguin-uk. Where were we?</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p><b>Modules on Thirtybeees are often free</b>. Stripe payments, a basic shopping cart (as you would expect on shopping cart software) are free. So Thirtybees is a cheap option,</p><p>Magento, for camparison is one of the biggest most bloated shopping carts but you pay in the need for a bigger faster server. It has tables within tables in its databases which are slow. It is a bit of a pig. The free version is a rare version of an expensive paid service that most people use.</p><p>Wordpress with the Woocommerce shopping cart plugin is the most common starting point and might have some wonderful cheap or free module because so many people use it. It is said to be rather slow when uesd for a large number of products. When I tried to use it in the 2010s there were several shopping cart modules available, each charging a lot for basics like a payment processing service, so it didn't seem as free or finished as it first looked. I don't know if that has tot any better. </p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Not great at integrating your Ebay items with your Amazon items or Etsy: it needs paid modules and there's only one or maybe two</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p>If there is free software that can synchronise sales on Ebay and Amazon and maybe Etsy and more, that's worth knowing. Forget Thirtybees until you have got the hang of the software and please tell me about it, as I think that Ebay Amazon and Etsy are where the money is. If you can have your own site on the web that gets customers too, better still but it will be hard to find.</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Thirtybees and most or all shopping carts don't synchronise with Ebay of Amazon by default. </p><p style="text-align: left;">There is about one paid module that is meant to integrate to Ebay but I have not made it work yet, and one for Amazon, and I don't know what else. If you are selling several things a day then there are more choices because you can afford say £15 a month for some hosted service that's meant to integrate everything with everything and have a message board for help, but if you're selling one thing a week you can't afford anything so expensive and there aren't many options. </p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"> <span style="color: red;">Not great at running on smartphones without a paid theme or some editing</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><div>The free default formatting or "theme" is cluttered on smartphones. Most shopping cart software would have a "responsive theme" that simplifies formatting if the screen is narrower than so-many pixels, and I don't think the Thirtybees default does. I doubt that many of the others do. They were written to be given-away for free with the chance that someone could make quite small amounts of money by selling add-ons, so if they were written before people searched on smartphones, I guess they stay that way. Some time I hope to re-edit by hacks on Veganline.com so there isn't a great beadcumb bar kind of thing that takes up most of the screen on a smartphone. </div></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Number of paid modules: mysterious</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;">Ideally the software shouldn't need paid modules, but if it does, and it's Wordpress, there are hundreds. Thirtybees is based on Prestashop 1.6.1 which had a lot of modules, many still available, and those for Prestashop 1.7 can probably be adapted for a fee but it is all a bit mysterious till you ask and get a yes or a no. Prestashop also tries to sell plugins by one or two dodgy firms that are best avoided or at least paid by credit card so you can maybe get a refund, so the subject of available modules is murkey. Generally the range of Prestashop 1.6 modules still available is reducing, but Thirtybees has made a lot of things free that Prestashop charges for, so you might not need any modules at all. I am still learning about the EU cookie law module and whether I need a paid one </p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Good at having features that I didn't think of until I had the site started</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">When checking e-commerce software, it's good to see whether "postage rates" or "payment" are paid extras because these essentials sometimes are.</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Making a product out of stock when the last one sells - that's an obvious one but some ways of selling online don't allow it. If you have a remote-hosted cart like Paypal running on free server space like Blogspot then you can't automatically track stock </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;">Space to override the style sheet code is good. If you have something like that in the back office, or somewhere easy, you can replace all your changes each time your site goes wrong and you have to replace it from old notes. I've made loads of changes, mainly to cut out what I don't need, such as the bit of the site that needed every customer to log on and register. Now, with my style sheet changes, none registers and I hope that more of them buy vegan shoes instead. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Stock control with subleties like saying what site a product is on, or giving a warning when the last one or ten are left in stock, can be a big thing. Thirtybees tries to do for free. A previous version of the software called Prestashop tried to do this and then added a warning to shopkeepers not to use those features because they were too buggy and too many people wanted too many differnt things. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Thirtybess is more sensible than Prestashop. It tends either to do something and work, or not do something. You don't see dozens of people on the forum all asking about the same bug, and click on their web sites to see that they have gone out of business maybe because of a Prestashop bug. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Selling something with a variable length - thre's a module for it. It's called "customisation" and most software will let the buyer send a message or even add a size but not much else. I forget why size and variable length are different. Oh: I remember! It is that you have to turn-off the idea of stock if your sizezs are just ways of cutting something, but you have to turn it on again for the next product. I forget the reasoning now and would have to look back at old forum posts. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Adding a page of text about the product or just a blog or explanations - that ought to be part of a shopping cart but sometimes isn't. I don't think Litecart has it. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">Importing data from another piece of software as a .csv file is sometimes expensive or tricky. Thirtybees sort of allows it I think.</p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Good for changing the code</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">There are three initials for this kind of software - I forget what they are - but they mean that formatting code like CSS and a couple of other types of code are kept distinct. If you want to change the code for a sales page, you can probably see some of the logic to how it works or find someone cheap who can make sense of it for you. There is probably a forum post from years-back by someone who tried something similar. You can cut the bits of a sales page that you don't want, or add bits. You can have different kinds of sales page for different kinds of products and choose them from the back office. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;"><p style="text-align: left;">I don't know how good or bad other software is for changing the code; I just know that I have managed it on Thirtybees and it is meant to separate code into categories to make hacking easier.</p></blockquote><p style="text-align: left;"></p><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Not good for Schema.org tags but probably none are and you can try to hack</span></h3><p></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;">This is a bit like trying to get your products on ebay and amazon, but for google bing yandex or whoever. They accept product feeds of formatted data to say what you can sell and there is a free feed module for Thirtybees and Prestashop for Google, but better to use tags round the product on the page itself. Search engines can read the page too. They have already done it but Schema.org tags are their preferred way of being directed to data.</p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;"><b>Schema.org</b> tags are work in progress. They are not well explained on the Schema.org web site and they often change. A good way to work out what's needed is to find a site like John Lewis that uses them for your kind of product, and feed their most similar web page into <a href="https://validator.schema.org/">https://validator.schema.org/</a> . This shows you what tags they used. Then you have to try to understand them without sufficient examples on the Schema site itself, and try to tweak your default sales page to include the tags. Quite likely this involves having different kinds of page for different kinds of product. My belt pages still don't work on https://validator.schema.org/ but the shoe pages do. Thirtybees lets you choose a different template sales page for a different kind of product. </p></blockquote><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;">Anyway the result is that if you type some unusual search into google that finds one of my pages, google might show the products along the top of the search. I don't know how easy other shopping carts are to hack in the same way and guess that because rather tekkie people like Thirtybees, then it has evolved to help people like them and me.</p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Conclusion: I don't have much of a clue but Thirtybees looks OK</span></h3><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px;"><p style="text-align: left;">There are a dozen or more shopping cart programs on sites like Softaculous and I didn't test many of them. For example I am in the UK and a UK-based one is Cubecart. I have done very little to try to compare with Thirtybees. It would take a long time. I just experimented with Magento, Wordpress, Prestashop, then moved to Thirtybees and struck lucky. Someone helped me for free to overcome some problems, maybe caused by bad concentration, and I was hooked. The forum seemed so positive and practical, The odd tekkie bits like whether you can choose to use template 1 or template 2 for belts chosen in the back office all seemed my kind of thing. So: happy but clueless or some better word like not completely accurately clueful in all situations.</p></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><i><a href="http://Veganline.com"><span style="color: red;">Veganline.com</span></a> for vegan shoes online is the example mentioned above. It sells vegan shoes boots belts & jackets made in democratic welfare states like the UK, where it's based.</i></h3><p><br /></p>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.comUnited Kingdom55.378051 -3.43597327.067817163821154 -38.592223 83.688284836178838 31.720277tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-58394945964320074902020-03-26T10:59:00.000+00:002020-03-26T10:59:06.406+00:00Ventilator and mask production<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="https://planb4fashion.blogspot.com/2020/03/uk-government-forms-for-medical-and.html">planb4fashion.blogspot.com/2020/03/uk-government-forms-for-medical-and.html</a><br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
...links to the forms to tell UK government about any </div>
<ul>
<li>ventilator parts you make, or </li>
<li>mask production capacity that you have. It also asks about office hotel and industrial space, transport, social care, and food.</li>
</ul>
The questions on the forms are copied-out on the page, so you can see them without having to go through an online form writing "test" in each box just to see what the questions are.<br /><br />Above my head are the instructions for helping with <a href="https://opensourceventilator.ie/">https://opensourceventilator.ie/</a> or their collaborators - this picture is from one in Canada. Their web site says that they don't expect these to be used in the mainstream; they are more for backup and countries without health systems.<br /><br />The idea of a Slack Channel is new to me but maybe not to engineers.<br />The idea of a control panel and computer control will be new to everyone for each model. I don't know if there is a way of making a more mechanical machine that is more self-evident in the way it works, with a pendulum perhaps.<br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJcMo4uSUIMbnrAdyYB7JDA4Uqk25Mhyphenhyphene2V_7l9RBEydZi_C5yBjWFBJo25FIBr0lrYqHOJtl51fDGQIS9Gv2oNU5N12lTvpf2XzdObET8HIc8keKg6FCyq0Q6oxlUTg7jB3X-ylRSM6MU/s1600/images_current_concept.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1036" data-original-width="1600" height="414" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJcMo4uSUIMbnrAdyYB7JDA4Uqk25Mhyphenhyphene2V_7l9RBEydZi_C5yBjWFBJo25FIBr0lrYqHOJtl51fDGQIS9Gv2oNU5N12lTvpf2XzdObET8HIc8keKg6FCyq0Q6oxlUTg7jB3X-ylRSM6MU/s640/images_current_concept.png" width="640" /></a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-71584009891090700742018-07-31T19:47:00.007+01:002019-11-16T11:00:24.574+00:00Cheap car hire in South West London & other ways of reducing servicing costs<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br />
<br />
moved to<br />
<a href="https://shoekeeping.wordpress.com/2018/07/31/cheap-car-hire-in-south-west-london-other-ways-of-reducing-servicing-costs/">https://shoekeeping.wordpress.com/2018/07/31/cheap-car-hire-in-south-west-london-other-ways-of-reducing-servicing-costs/</a><br />
<br />
<br />
This year, I own a car as well as sharing one, and feel like a grown-up. <br />
<br />
Other people say this about having children. Well, cars are better behaved than children and I make mine work entirely on the rent scene to make money, which is legal for cars but probably not for children.. Here is the proof: a cheap car hire in South West London SW14 8BP near East Sheen, which is a road called Avenue Gardens. If you check the price it's probably cheaper than car hire from a garage- a price in the thirties per day.. Hiyacar's calendar only shows on the smartphone versions of their site but the web version has a search function that knows what day the car is available.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="Car club or car hire in South West London, East Sheen, Richmond on Thames" border="0" data-original-height="988" data-original-width="1391" height="227" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq2vRfJluoWDUOeNJly6BuaxNDd_zfjxpskfm25MKHTs_rTnU4qBzCdBVpnvbwEJ3SRi4IC3vdAHEfaqcKjqCptzOdU0QpF7CtGlXLzGn9UOpWoHGGgqkEmqXZrgrdYNOk-46bLl0lbBGH/s320/IMG_0002.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/rent-a-car/3963-21224-peugeot-108-active-s-a-in-london-sw14" title="car hire near me in East Sheen, Richmond, South West London, near Barnes and Mortlake stations">Hiyacar.co.uk/rent-a-car/3963-21224-peugeot-108-active-s-a-in-london-sw14</a> <span style="color: red;">Discount link</span><br /><a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW">Hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW</a><br />Hiyacar's app can help you take photos of the car before and after hiring, and store them on their servers, so that you have proof of previous damage or empty petrol tanks or any of the things that might crop-up. They're generally more hi-tec than similar agencies.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>There was a link to Easycar but they were like a budget airline to deal-with, and wound-down. Turo of the USA and <strike>Drivy</strike> Getaround of the US and France can both insure car trips in the UK. If you want this car via <strike style="font-size: 18.72px;">Drivy</strike><span style="font-size: 18.72px;"> Getaround</span>, just let me know and I'll re-activate the listing for the day you want.</li>
</ul>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="Small 4 door" border="0" data-original-height="930" data-original-width="1536" height="193" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi1aH5fxvQIs5012S3LeQgmNdHfKkEt4A8MIwEu_rUAI9DPGS34gGCqsB3rxFtv9SfttJ3X91C4myku50T50lTnnzy4bfAaOgU4VcYJDow8bo3sT2rAWzPPD_badxltU8qOmsCZecT8fL7p/s320/IMG_0005.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="hatchback" border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1536" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVx1fETkRQsR82IDeODmSU2jZ_2F5ofF6WTqjOKKwfcsujgiMsMGkPI-gB5ekFx_dSx9GKL5_ty_voCk3XNrLQn-xbeQ04tYQ3RyGAofhy706Fze3Tw8ucLEV4dTpX2Edz6HywNNKonPWG/s320/IMG_0006.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="automatic with fabric seats" border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1536" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkIyGtkGP7PL48KNdNoFWhc6AmkZMedv9McEniEtvXmCWPPxElUCAErwUPsgR1_ri3ixVdL_38_CFElOiAsF49YRZ3e2SQjcqWBGRoXML3YFs7Wg6EobCDsJAR2WVICjMeEd0orxAX9nS1/s320/IMG_0007.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="built-in radio, bluetooth, and miles per gallon estimate which usually says over 48" border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1536" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMJyPUOceQnt521Gk0PhMZvg2dOIieuyvDQP4yNUQBbmGzjCCpFUAqsw9HqifkfqsANfFj8xIfJrZmAt0EHnTa90x-dXTlX-STb7tXYM8_g5IIXtposqrmjZ1ZMsdp2-DJne8HjTwt8ibk/s320/IMG_0008.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="split rear seats" border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1536" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgc9lqNLhq9DLEiUKo0RAKxF8cTV4Khaj-11niN9wtcKRCDxCfm_xqRbojZ-OcACYRCegeINuiv_FeNQfk0ktgNczhswWS6hA7A1YS2woSHi0fngvdFFNl_yAzBSpJcsXgNiqLWG-NzCWqm/s320/IMG_0012.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.hiyacar.co.uk/codes/LYXWPGWW"><img alt="similar to a car club with a remote controlled key safe and low daily rates, but no membership fee" border="0" data-original-height="640" data-original-width="1436" height="142" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGTPwbDiOMTajm8Di7Yg6EeweIMxuzGsbPvfrF2-InPeCLItDyNHI4C-9LVSFE8Mua6-OvHUku-6_fXLoFMZISUyCC0TCsBbSFWoJ2ndf0AMNGI2jd0StQwBkRIE9n9qg6jYVwgwpM0A37/s320/IMG_0001.JPG" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
</h3>
As the miles mount-up on my mum's ex-runabout I realize what a careful choice she made in getting one of those three-cylinder Toyota / Peugeot / Citroen 5-door hatchbacks with zero car tax and next to no maintenance. I also realize that other people do a thing called car servicing and I made a list of some of the servicing and MOT prices people pay. If you rent a car, you don't have to bother; there is no catch. If you own a car you have to think of something.<br />
<br />
In theory, each car servicing deal deal comes with its own list of points covered, and nearly all of them are "check", as in "check steering gators". I had to google what steering gators are, but remember from my car maintenance adult education class circa 1988 that there were timing belts to check, timing adjustment to fix at "top dead centre", and spark plugs to sandpaper and bend to the right distance between prongs, using a special booklet of metal sheets at different thicknesses. None of this is mentioned in the prices; it doesn't seem to be needed so much on modern cars, except perhaps as a way of getting money back from a below-price offer by upselling over-priced parts to a customer like new oil or spark plugs or wiper blades. Peugeot dealerships have the price list on a web site and it is several tenners for the smallest thing. Fifty quid to change the dust in the carpet. It's a rip-off.<br />
<br />
As I chase bargains I realize that I chase something odd. <br />
<br />
Other people chase something odd too. Other people look for the same genie and get caught-out when Servicingstop or Fixter offer MOT and services at less than the cost of collection and delivery that's part of the deal. Then Rogue Traders or the BBC or The Guardian do a report on how mechanics have over-charged for un-necessary work in order to make-up. They would, wouldn't they? So do Halfords and Kwik-Fit according to threads on moneysavingexpert.<br />
<br />
Then I look for mechanics on Dealzippy and Groupon willing to stamp a service document and clear my conscience about safety checks, when all they have done is "check". I think that if the car is well checked, then I can get it done by a mechanic or do a DIY job if it is the sort of thing you see in a Haynes manual. Even the <a href="https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/">minimum MOT list</a> is mainly "check". A bit like the routine for checking fire extinguishers in which landlords are meant to check that a fire extinguisher has water in it by lifting to check weight, and tick paper; that's all. Or those Portable Appliance Checks that big organisations do on the kettle plug, to say that it has been inspected by a qualified kettle plug inspector.<br />
<br />
Most of the car checks are simple and simply mean "look at and tick". This in a private place, without witnesses, and without time to do the job carefully, money to employ the best mechanic, or a video to get proof of doing it. Really, what I'm chasing is a garage with a postal address and a rubber stamp that says "serviced", rather than a mechanic, and even that small overhead costs money. I don't want to pay what it costs, so I scheme about going-in with the car and supplying my own spares and somehow hoping that a mechanic can check the car, pay for a garage building and stamp my MOT and service record for next to nothing while paying commission to Motoreasy or Groupon and maybe even collecting the car. Motoreasy are cheap on MOT but expensive for servicing so I guess that's how they make-up. Maybe the service garages on Groupon can just stamp the service record for what they earn, while repeating the MOT safety check.<br />
<br />
The system is not all glum. A lot of people pay about £168 - call it £170 - to an independent garage for MOT and service (according to <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/nov/08/dealer-or-local-garage-car-service">The Guardian</a> in 2014 quoting whocanfixmycar) plus any vital repairs and parts, and it's too much to pay but there is a living in it for good independent garage mechanics. If you leave your own oil, filter, wiper blade and brake pads in the car they can't over-charge you for using their own if they decide to do the work.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://bookmygarage.com/">Bookmygarage.com</a> lists prices from independent garages. They don't charge the garage a referral fee for the service - they charge the garage a £170 monthly subscription - so there's less incentive for a garage to get cheapskates for a one-off rip-off and more incentive to try to get repeat customers. They can also put the details online because they loose no referral fee by putting it all in public. But £170 is still an amount of money. For me, it's about eight days' car hire for a car hired two days a week. For a garage that services several cars a month, that's one car's takings used-up just to pay for the listing and they probably pay for other directories and referral agents as well, such as Whocanfixmycar who charge the garage £10 for referral and £60 for listing.<br />
<br />
Here is my solution. Suppose someone makes a car pit and stand in a public place, and allows anyone to drive their car onto it and see the steering gators from underneath, maybe in some way that allows them to wobble the wheels to check for looseness, and turn them to check for brake tightness and squeeze the be brake pads to check thin-ness as well as checking of tyre tread for thin-ness. And puts a poster on a wall saying what has to be checked for MOT and servicing. And provides some automated way of logging on to car diagnostic systems to that, quite often, the driver can double-check what they see on dashboard lights against results on some app like Torque or whatever. And allows any checks to be recorded on camera for free in some public archive that renters and buyers can see if they want for free. <br />
<br />
The solution would make the checking process record-able and do-able for the cost of the time for someone with the right kind of skills. For about half the population, or something like that. A lot of skilled people who are rich in money but poor in time would continue to use garages for MOT and servicing, maybe paying for collection and delivery, but those with general skills and middling money and middling free time could do the work themselves. A lot of other people are poor in skill or health. They might have a lot of trouble parking in the right place and using the robots and sticking to the facts, but the public place and the chance of asking passers-by to help or to walk-past and learn as a by-stander would all help - it would be a free first guide to car servicing for any teenager who wanted to study further.<br />
<br />
There is a lot of detail to be worked-out. When I google things like "mobile car service trailer", I don't see the thing in my mind; I see a scissor-lift on a trailer, but I am sure the problems are solvable. I suppose that breaking and car tread could be checked by a robot for example. Once the problems are solved, all that is needed is for a Ministry of Transport delegate to sign the MOT for - what price? - £20? £10? Maybe changing the oil for something filtered from the last similar car. That would be a decent service at a decent price.<br />
<br />
Oh there is an even simpler system. If the government MOT website did the same as Bookmygarage.com, that would save £170 a month out of your local garages costs, but I am not sure if government ministers and civil servants are the best people to do it.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com27Avenue Gardens, London SW14 8BP, UK51.4659565 -0.2587785000000621951.46472 -0.2613000000000622 51.467192999999995 -0.25625700000006219tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-2282602507095686372018-02-22T19:59:00.000+00:002018-04-02T19:01:07.086+01:00Emission Zone Consultation<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I filled-in the form that says <i>"do you want to pay more tax by being fined for small contraventions?"</i> At the top it says</blockquote>
<h3 id="cs-consultation-title-in-banner">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">Have your say on changes to the <br />
Ultra Low Emission Zone & <br />
Low Emission Zone</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There is some evidence here<br />
<a href="http://content.tfl.gov.uk/mts-supporting-evidence-challenges-opportunities.pdf">http://content.tfl.gov.uk/mts-supporting-evidence-challenges-opportunities.pdf</a><br />
<br />
There is a form here<br />
<a href="https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/consultation/confirm_submit">https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/consultation/confirm_submit</a><br />
<br />
<br />
A lot of people fill-in these forms and write <br />
<span style="color: red;"><i>"yes: I want to be part of a big bossy system without thinking of better options"</i>.</span><br />
Shitbags. Which may sound rude but that's what the people who want more fines and rules and zones think of the typical person who gets fined, and of course they get fined themselves now and then as well because we all do by mistake.<br />
<br />
So this is what I wrote on the final <i>"further comments"</i> section:<br />
<br />
I am against everything!<br />
I need to write a more careful response based on the headings of your evidence document, but I probably won't, or won't be well informed, so here is something off the cuff.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">PLANTING</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I think there must be a lot more to be done to trap particles in plant leaves, because I see no new hedges or schemes at all. No honeysuckle, no virginia creeper, nothing. I can't remember the name of the <a href="http://thegreencity.com/how-a-flower-can-help-cities-to-reduce-their-air-pollution/">dutch plant developed for the purpose</a>, with a name that's a pun on dope smoking, so I googled and saw that "plants to reduce particle pollution levels the most", "how do trees reduce air pollution", and "pollution preventing plants" are common searches and guess that there are plenty of expert advisers who could suggest the best possible plants to use as hedges while something is planted anyway, perhaps in pots to remove when a better plant can be found to make a hedge on the central reservation of Edgeware Road or the crash barriers of Westway.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">PARKS</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I hoped to see something about the need for safer parks with more wilderness and undergrowth - something that happens at near zero cost. What I see day to day is councils cutting-back undergrowth to prevent gay cruising and suit the tastes of politically active local groups, such as Friends of Barnes Common or Friends of Tower Hamlets Cemetery (set up under Mayer Rahman). I'm told that Hyde Park has police patrols at night to prevent or reduce cruising after dark, despite the cost to the police budget and the effect of gay cruisers in making parks safer places. I think I saw that the Royal Parks still discourage cycling for no reason at all in some cases as well. Hampstead Heath, run by the City Corporation, has teams of people on public money cutting back the undergrowth to discourage gay cruisers, all paid-for out of our taxes and reduced public services.<br />
<br />
So I think there is a need to embarrass and arm-twist councils and the Royal Parks into spending less money on this, promoting wilderness that is good for the environment, and promoting gay cruisers as people who make the streets and parks safer at night.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">VEHICLE TYPES</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
What scares me is that a visitor or somebody without the internet who is not clued-up will face a big fine by mistake, just for driving an old banger because unable to afford something new. I think a lot of us have been fined or had a near-miss for driving in the congestion zone by mistake.<br />
<br />
I am scared that tired international lorry drivers of travelers or Uber drivers or Hermes delivery people will end-up facing fines, and that the people who can't make a living as mini cab drivers will make even less of a living because of higher costs and difficulty of complying with the system.<br />
<br />
I don't have an immediate solution but some kind of first warning system, by which those who broke the rules were given free advice on how to comply with the law, with a possible extra tax on all drivers related to a particular company or customer if <br />
it's believed that that system encourages new drivers to try to use ignorance and poverty as ways of competing more cheaply.<br />
<br />
I don't have an immediate response to the types of vehicles allowed to congest, except to say that I don't understand, so that maybe the problem is one of presentation. If the rule where presented as "electric only - and a long list of detailed exceptions", then I might take to it more.<br />
<br />
(PS That's one of the scares among other more obvious ones like the zone getting to where I live and me having to pay more.) </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">PATTERNS OF STUDY, or TOURISM</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I suggest that a lot of the jobs done in central London are pointless. The person who comes to your table at a pub and says "how was your soup?". The person who changes your bed linen in a hotel. The tourist who stays in the hotel without realizing that Cardiff would be cheaper. The visiting head of state, entourage, and police. The culture or sport event like the Olympics (promoted by the Foreign Office to promote Soft Power abroad., as imagined by someone paid more than double the average wage by the Foreign Office, who lives in the home counties when in the UK and does not much use UK public services.)<br />
<br />
There is a list of the top 20 degree-awarding colleges by numbers of international students they attract. It's easy to get a number of international students at these colleges in London, I think, and the number is about the same a the number of long distance commuters who commute between regions the UK in or out of the London region. It is a number with the same number of noughts after it. So, a system to encourage international students to go to Lampeter or Coleraine or West Highlands and not the usual boring courses that home students avoid in central London would be good all-round. Maybe the people who promote these courses should co-operate with those from Ireland who do the same thing.<br />
<br />
All of these jobs could be discussed more in some way that I don't know off-the-cuff but maybe a series of lectures and discussions or TV programs. </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GLOBAL SOURCES & VAN DELIVERIES</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I glanced at the evidence document and saw that the pattern of buying things from China or an intermediate warehouse, rather than from a walk-in chainstore that imports from China or even one that buys from the UK, is likely to lead to more van deliveries over time, with emissions and congestion attached, and so a need for more zones and taxes.<br />
<br />
There are different ways of responding to this.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GLOBAL SOURCES & VAN DELIVERIES: </span></h3>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">reducing the value of the pound to increase home production</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I suggest that the government needs more ways of reducing inflation than simply waiting for the Bank of England to put the exchange rate up (high interest rates leading to high exchange rates) and killing-off UK manufacturing. The effect is for more people in the UK to seek service jobs that are traditionally based in the south, London, Edinburgh, and not the North East or Gwent. So I think it is in Londoner's interest for more ways to be found of reducing inflation when the Monetary Policy Committee thinks there is a danger of it. The job is to un-pick their reasoning, encourage debate, and put to the problem to the public as part of that debate. Oddly enough, some of the economics courses that attract international students to the centre of London are no good at that. That's why the LSE is the second least popular degree-awarding institution on the Guardian University Guide's list by student feedback, second only to University of the Arts.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GLOBAL SOURCES & VAN DELIVERIES: </span></h3>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">promoting services like click and collect</span></h4>
<blockquote>
I suggest that the regional government of any over-crowded city should try to advertise click-and-collect services at local newsagents and such, as a way to prevent people expecting a delivery at home when they might not be in, so that someone on low wages has to keep driving round and ringing door bells.</blockquote>
<br />
That's all I can think of off the cuff.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-3687640086392523032018-02-12T22:41:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:22:29.447+01:00budget<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<i>London Economic Development Strategy consultation </i>- <br />
</h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-small; font-weight: normal;">(including the Cultural & Education District (CED))</span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i> <span style="font-size: xx-small;">The Mayor's Budget ... is now open for consultation until Thursday, 12 January 2017.</span></i><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i>Please email your responses to: GLAbudget a t london.gov.uk</i></span> My response was an earlier, shorter draft of this page - https://archive.is/zFYd6 ,</span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<br /></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">two responses </span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1</span>. how to get more self-critical lobby documents, </div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">2</span>. reconsider the partners for the cultural and education district, currently London College of Fashion, University College London and Saddlers Wells.</div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1. Introductory quotes in the Greater London Authority budget: response with <br />
a suggestion down the page.</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<i>At the same time, I am determined to help London’s future economy grow and create new jobs and opportunities for Londoners. </i><br />
<i><br />
</i> <i>That is why I am investing in skills, and supporting new and innovative businesses to invest in London.</i><br />
<i><br />
</i> <i>In addition, I will continue to invest in London’s cultural and creative offering, and in particular the Cultural and Educational District (CED) in the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park.</i></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
Mayors tend to shake a lot of hands and maintain a high media profile. And represent the public to just a few public services, such as regional transport. So any Mayor of any big town will end-up on a round of meetings and activities about the less factual, more lobby-related things. I don't know which Mayors personally make many decisions and which rely more on their officials, but each Mayor certainly nods when decisions are whisked-past at <i>"meetings with senior officials"</i> days or <i>"briefing"</i> in the diary - a diary which is now published for the London Mayor:<br />
https://www.london.gov.uk/about-us/governance-and-spending/sharing-our-information/publication-scheme/mayor-londons-diary and a similar format <a href="https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/gla_migrate_files_destination/9462-1.pdf">here</a><br />
<br />
The harder any Mayor works, the worse the result can be because nobody lobbies for the obvious.<br />
<br />
Mayors want to do something about obvious crowding problems like</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>high rising housing costs as a proportion of earnings. </li>
<li>long commutes, </li>
<li>pollution, </li>
<li>rough sleeping, sofa-surfing, lack of B&Bs or landlords who take housing benefit, silting-up of hostels, lack of social housing, etc </li>
<li>retention of staff in social services or emergency services. </li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
But the conventional wisdom of people who have meetings is to favor something. Arts, tourism, inward investment, higher education, sport, fashion (whatever that is), and particular institutions involved. The meetings are not blatantly to bribe or even to lobby, but they put the Mayor face-to-face with a bunch of people and under pressure to understand their concerns and the great benefit that trade / institution A B or C does for taxpayers and voters, often acknowledged in a speech and sometimes regretted in hindsight. Gordon Brown did this kind of thing for Lehman Brothers. I am sure that
politicians have done it for the National Tennis Academy. So I have rather
cynically called people "lobbyists" on this round of meetings that each
Mayor attends.<br />
<br />
Each lobby group wants to crowd more people into town. None puts a price on crowding
or crowding-out. Instead they have slick-looking dossiers of figures to say that <i>"Fashion contributes £26 billion to the UK economy"</i>, or <i>"International students contribute £26 billion to the UK economy"</i>. These phrases find their way into Mayor's briefings.<br />
<br />
Nobody invites the Mayor to a media event to talk about Housing Benefit, or Income Support, or the basic insurance-like services which are depleted with each extra piece of spending on Tennis or Dance.<br />
<br />
Nobody invites the Mayor to a media event to talk about over-crowding, and how to lower the profile of London as a destination, reduce tourism, reduce international study, reduce inward investment, reduce un-necessary jobs, making way for housing or workshops or social care.<br />
<br />
The harder a Mayor works to help these lobbyists, the more damage is done.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Suggestion: the GLA London Mayor should get more self-critical lobby dossiers, and consider them more critically. Here's how.</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>hire critically-minded economists at GLA economics</li>
<li>guarantee them independence to state their opinions direct to the public and tell the public how to check facts on any statements received by the Mayor; I don't know how. Something like the Monetary Policy Committee</li>
<li>promise to put any economic lobby dossiers to them for comment, and put the documents to the public for comment at the same time</li>
<li>ask the public to point out any sentences designed to deceive. Journalists might respond. Any phrase like <i>"world class"</i> would risk ridicule in the tabloids before a mayor had to read it, and so after a while the Mayor would get better documents.</li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
With luck, the mayor could stay in bed and good self-critical ideas would be pushed under his or her door, without phrases like <i>"world class"</i> in them.<br />
<br />
For example the Mayor's budget states that four of the world's top four universities are in London, such as London School of Economics (LSE), and I am sure that their web sites agree. But LSE students on their economics degree give it the worst student feedback of any economics degree at any of the 83 institutions offering economics degrees in the UK. Bottom, according to Unistats. It is a degree with two years of someone's choice of theory followed by one year of application, with the option to study Game Theory but no option to study how to fund the NHS for the next fifty years. I pick this example because I did an economics course years ago, but I am sure there are a lot of example of unpopular institutions presenting themselves to the mayor as popular institutions.<br />
<br />
Any Mayor needs a way to avoid the tiring round of engagements with groups who lure-in to a conventional wisdom and say things like "top university" instead of "bottom university" or "popular" instead of "unpopular", or "world class" and <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">"international student"</a>, whatever they mean. Any Mayor would do better to stay in bed and have better, more self-critical information provided by institutions and pushed under the door.<br />
<br />
I have a link to Unistats data about London School of Economics somewhere here:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a><br />
<br />
I think the same kinds of points could be made about any of the consultations that the Mayor does, so I will concentrate mainly on the Queen Elizabeth Park project.</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<br /></div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">2. Response about Cultural & Education District, Queen Elizabeth Park<br />
Suggestion: the Greater London Authority should scale it down and look for popular colleges to work with instead of the chosen ones - London College of Fashion and UCL</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
University College London, University of the Arts' London College of Fashion, and Saddlers Wells dance company are to share a very expensive new development near the Olympic site. I have not followed the story...<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/02/london-olympicopolis-culture-hub-stratford"><br />
theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/02/london-olympicopolis-culture-hub-stratford</a><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
Any 18 year-old who looks for higher education courses will know tables like this, mainly the ones that compare by course title. This is from The Guardian University Guide, first table quoting all the combined courses at each college, sorted by "satisfied with course"<u><b> worst first</b></u> . Expand the image or search yourself on Guardian University Guide if you want a closer look.<br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiwbVZQBkPJYZloTZW6-yQQ4l-i2lInyxWemkVe6XoNqFsKjaFfWK8fL9SC3_ieCP7c4AYQ9jzfn5I9Ko0xcOOjqsCcklioZiibnGFZFC0B7d-M6GEbuNvt-WTnVvh20NLdlowMvBNRjPBO/s1600/all-courses.jpg" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="University of the Arts scores least for student satisfaction among degree awarding colleges" border="0" data-original-height="369" data-original-width="1120" height="130" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiwbVZQBkPJYZloTZW6-yQQ4l-i2lInyxWemkVe6XoNqFsKjaFfWK8fL9SC3_ieCP7c4AYQ9jzfn5I9Ko0xcOOjqsCcklioZiibnGFZFC0B7d-M6GEbuNvt-WTnVvh20NLdlowMvBNRjPBO/s400/all-courses.jpg" title="" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr align="right"><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
(University College London is more middling, with 84.2% satisfied with the courses and 86.0% with teaching)<br />
<br />
<br />
I suggest trying to attract the colleges with best student feedback and best chance of creating jobs, which are probably midlands colleges and probably have less staff time and money to bid, or discuss, or build. A more modest, low-risk idea like using some existing buildings would be much more likely to attract them, as would a promise to deal only with the colleges that students like, and to cap the cost of bidding and discussing.<br />
<br />
I think the method of choosing UCL and London College of Fashion should be published, cancelled, and that a more rational method of choosing colleges should be found and consulted-on.<br />
<br />
If there is no way to scale-down the project and exclude London College of Fashion, maybe it would agree to be taken-over by another college with a different management and no Nike connections as part of the scheme.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">London College of Fashion : the charge sheet.</span></h3>
<hr />
<blockquote>
University of the Arts and UCL make a lot of money because they provide courses with bad student feedback, as you can see on the table above. When a big famous city-centre institution has an unpopular course, the places still fill because international students who don't check Unistats take the places, and those from outside the EU pay about double the fee, so the college makes a lot of money. That's why these two colleges can afford staff to lobby and to apply for grants and suggest grand development deals and provide PR to make themselves sound like the best colleges, when the table shows one of them as the worst college for student satisfaction and just a shade better for graduate employment. <br />
<br />
To read <i>"London College of Fashion"</i> as part of a scheme <a 10="" 2012="" 2015="" a="" about="" accessories.="" after="" also="" and="" arthur="" became="" better="" building="" businesses="" by="" can="" clare="" clients="" co-founded="" co="" common="" connections="" consulting="" continues="" decade="" department="" development="" director="" ethical="" fair="" fairtrade="" fashion="" for="" forum.="" foundation="" gap="" global="" grow="" henry="" her="" how="" href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009#" in="" including="" industry="" initiative="" international="" is="" matching="" men="" money="" mouth="" objective="" of="" on="" organic="" other="" over="" platform="" poor="" professionals="" purveyor="" put="" quality="" research="" resources="" right="" s="" she="" shirts="" specialising="" strategise="" successful="" superb="" sustainable="" tesco="" the="" think="" title="
Clare Lissaman
Director, Common Objective and Arthur & Henry
CO - Common Objective University of Oxford
London, United Kingdom 500+ 500+ connections" to="" trade="" trading="" traidcraft="" twin="" where="" with="" work="" years="">to promote UK employment around East London</a> is a bit like reading about grants to Kids Company or contracts to Carillion; they have form. </blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>London College of Fashion graduates have mediocre to bad employment prospects.<br />
</li>
<li>London College of Fashion students give lowest marks to their college for satisfaction<br />
</li>
<li>London College of Fashion's knowledge transfer partnership scheme is used to promote a course: <i>"we don't do bespoke"</i>, the person told me; <i>"I'll let you know".</i></li>
<li>London College of Fashion provided office space and helped claim grants with a company called Creative Connexions, designed to introduce UK designers and manufacturers to Chinese or Indian rivals. It was borne of political initiatives and received 80% of the Higher Education Funding Council's budget for special projects in the first year or two. So UK taxpayers had to pay to put themselves out of work, just as UK students had to watch their government funding be sent to China. Creative Connexions and other LCF offices like Own-IT and UAL Ventures did a seminar called <i>"making it ethically in China"</i> in Manchester, just up the road from JJ Blackledge wallet manufacturers who went bust that weekend for lack of support in the home market. So, if London College of Fashion had never existed, there might still be a wallet manufacturer with all its automation called JJ Blackledge providing good jobs in Manchester. </li>
<li>London College of Fashion did another bit of government business a few years ago, with Department for International Development in some rather boundary-less cross-departmental scheme that will never be accountable, leading to a web site that still warns people not to buy British made products on ethical grounds, and, at its peak, got huge amounts of column inches for its idea of "ethical fashion", meaning whatever they wanted it to mean and not fashion made in the UK, at a time when I could list the particular UK clothing and footwear manufacturers that were closing. </li>
<li>There is a fishy relationship to Nike, who sponsor the department at LCF.<br />
One director at Ethical Fashion Forum happened to be Nike's freelance consultant who vets ethical compliance reports sent to Nike from their contractors in the far east. A "highly regarded independent consultant on ethical trading, fair trade and corporate social responsibility" , according to the PR that went-out in the name of Ethical Fashion Forum. She did this interview for example.<br />
<h4>
Adam Vaughan, journalist:</h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"If we can generally guess what the problems are, can we shop by country, picking good ones and bad ones? Usually you can see where a product was made."</i></blockquote>
<h4>
<a href-="" href="https://www.blogger.com/null" title="
Clare Lissaman
Director, SOURCE Consultancy
Clare is one of the UK’s foremost experts when it comes to ethical sourcing and supply chains. A trained social and environmental auditor, she has a breadth of knowledge and experience in the challenges of building up sustainable supply chains and the ins and outs of standards and certification.
Clare has worked closely with many of the worlds leading fashion retailers as well as smaller businesses in relation to supply chain strategy -and delivered training all over the world. She is an inspiring speaker and expert facilitator.
Alongside this, Clare is Co Founder of award winning sustainable menswear brand Arthur and Henry, and is on the Steering Group of the Decent Work and Labour Standards Forum.
Clare has particular expertise in sourcing from Asia and is fluent in Chinese, which she read at Oxford.
Follow her on Twitter @clarelissaman."><br />
Clare Lissaman, </a><br />
Nike consultant with government funding to promote Ethical Fashion Forum</h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"I don't think you can compare countries. You're just as likely to have a sweatshop down the road here in London in the east end as you are in China, India or Bangladesh. One of the best factories I've come across in the world was in China. One of the worst factories I've come across in the world was in China."</i></blockquote>
<br />
I think this is odd, because sweatshop employees in London have access to benefits including a health service and a functioning legal system with an emphasis on individual rights, so it is clearly not true that a factory in China is the same as one in London, and consumers should know the difference; London College of Fashion has helped divert London taxpayers' money into a scheme for reducing London employment and promoting Chinese employment at Nike factories.</li>
<li>Nike's sponsored department acts as "secretariat" to the All Party Group for Ethics and Sustainability in Fashion, set-up by another consultant who had been nominated for peerage by someone at the Greater London Authority. There was another all party group on clothing, but this new one is a rival. It's fishy isn't it?<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
I made separate suggestions a few years ago for improving the way London Fashion Week might help. and can repeat them if asked - just email<br />
<br />
John Robertson<br />
2 Avenue Gds, London SW14 8BP<br />
shop a t veganline d o t com<br />
responding to a GLA request for comment on the Mayor's budget</blockquote>
------------------------<br />
<br />
16/2/18<br />
Just today I heard that the education secretary wants to tweak the maximums that colleges are allowed to charge for fees, maybe allowing more for engineering and dentistry and (not reported but possible) less for English Literature or Law which are much cheaper to teach at the usual staff ratios. If this is unpopular, I don't see any choice but for her to follow-through, because there are so many more degree-awarding adult education colleges and so many of them can simply not teach engineering or dentistry or mechanical engineering, leaving the traditional courses short of cash.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-79688080531506320492018-01-16T19:34:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:22:31.624+01:00international student course satisfaction<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">International students take economics courses with the </span></span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">worst student feedback in the UK and in the </span></b></li>
<li><b><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">most expensive parts, so these </span></b></li>
<li><b><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">courses make most money because non-EU students pay double fees.</span></b></li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: black;"> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">I wrote a long set of notes for a government consultation</a> overlapping with this page, but this one starts with a table of evidence.</span></span></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"> Click on the number under "degree" for each college to see student satisfaction on Unistats about each course.<br />
</span><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: black;"><br />
Statements like <i>"International Students contribute £X &Y jobs to the UK economy"</i> are based on work by Oxford Economics or London Economics who work for corporate clients like Universities UK; they are not paid to be impartial. </span></span></span><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: black;"> <a href="http://bit.ly/reportmethods">Bit.ly/reportmethods</a> is a link to Oxford Economics' methods. They do not count the costs of a more over-crowded city, nor of colleges like London College of Fashion which actively hinder the UK manufacturing economy while claiming taxpayer grants for the work. This page doesn't mention the Oxford Economics report, but does give examples about the London College of Fashion. Another post suggests they <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/02/budget.html" title="London College of Fashion will have a vast new campus on the Olympic site">shouldn't help with the Cultural & Education District at Queen Elizabeth Park</a>.</span></span></span></h4>
</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b>Sources</b></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
see "footnote on sources" below. The number of international students in the first column links to the unistats page for that college's degree course, with student satisfaction reports for things like <i>"course is intellectually stimulating"</i> that add-up to student satisfaction scores.</div>
</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">"Satisfied"</span></b></span> <br />
<blockquote>
The final column is a Complete University Guide rank, by student feedback score, of each institution out of 83 recent providers of economics degree courses. It exaggerates differences between courses with similar feedback, but clarifies the point that most of these are the worst courses. The Guardian University Guide gives about the same result.<br />
The other columns are examples of detail. <br />
<br />
About half the students who fill-in a national student survey are simply trying to be loyal and polite, so scores below 50% are rare. Students tick boxes on an "agree ... disagree" scale to survey questions. </blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">"Stimulated"</span></b></span><br />
<blockquote>
<i>"The course is intellectually stimulating"</i>, or worth study at all.</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">"Interested"</span></b></span> <br />
<blockquote>
<i>"Staff made the subject interesting"</i>, or made the best of it. Central London courses are probably taught by staff who have done long commutes to get to work.</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">"Applied"</span></b></span> <br />
<blockquote>
<i>"Opportunity to apply what I had learned"</i>. A course in economics without application is clearly pointless. Apart from anything else, you can't tell which theories are worth study until you need to apply them. And I mention a shoe-making course in which 29% of students thought they'd get to apply the skill more than they did.</blockquote>
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;"><b>"?Gap"</b></span></span><br />
<blockquote>
Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, and LSE were reported in news articles above with a £9,000 lobotomy theme, but I see no degree for Glasgow or Edinburgh, so there is a gap. I have put data from a financial statistics course in the list for Imperial.<br />
<br />
A gap could mean that a college closed its course. Smaller and regional colleges, with fewer international students, sometimes re-define and re-title their courses to avoid the bad feedback that a previous version of the course had, I guessed when writing a <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">star courses</a> post about the worst-reviewed courses a few years ago.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h2>
<a href="https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education">Top 20 largest recruiters of international students 2015-16</a></h2>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> most mainstream economics degree - click the number under "degree" to see student feedback stats</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> overseas students national student survey of all students<br />
degree grad. total stimulated interested applied satisfied (1-83) <br />
UCL <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007784FT-UBEECOSING05/">7,860</a> 7,115 14,975 72% 92% 65% 79 / 83</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Manchester <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007798FT-206">5,950</a> 6,970 12,920 74% 76% 59% 78 / 83 <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/04/economics-students-overhaul-subject-teaching" title="EDUCATION AND UNLEARNING is the report to google - this is a news story about it">protests</a></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Edinburgh 5,085 5,695 10,780 81 / 83 no degree<br />
Kings College <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10003645FT-UBSH3SSWE/">4,115</a> 4,785 8,900 ? ? ? 70 / 83 new course</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Sheffield <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007157FT-L100/">4,595</a> 3,930 8,525 64% 81% 74% </span></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">40 / 83</span></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Warwick <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007163FT-U-L100/">4,520</a> 3,920 8,440 80% 89% 77%</span></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 64 / 83 <br />
Imperial College <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10003270FT-G1GH">4,550</a> 3,970 8,520 45% 62% </span></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> see notes</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Oxford 5,760 2,300 8,060 ? ? ? PPE Ec/Hist</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">LSE <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007158FT-100">4,635</a> 2,280 6,915 60% 74% 52% 83 / 83</span></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Birmingham <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10006840FT-K0160">4,670</a> 2,945 7,615 66% 81% 58% 45 / 83<br />
City, Uni of L <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10003270FT-G1GH">4,320</a> 3,180 7,500 57% 82% 52% 60 / 83</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Southampton <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007158FT-100">4,050</a> 3,175 7,225 66% 83% 52% 72 / 83</span></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Glasgow 3,845 3,790 7,635 no degree</span></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Coventry Uni <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10001726FT-53/">3,540</a> 6,175 9,715 93% 100 98% 5 / 83</span></span> <br />
Uni of Nottingham <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007154FT-L100">3,170</a> 4,070 7,240 79% 81% 75% 6 / 83<br />
Cardiff Uni <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007158FT-100">3,285</a> 3,825 7,110 46% 69% 52% 73 / 83</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Leeds <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007795FT-L100">3,825</a> 2,760 6,585 89% 92% 77% 38 / 83</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of Liverpool <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10006842FT-BSC_EC">2,075</a> 5,235 7,310 71% 78% 62% 56 / 83 </span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Uni of the Arts, <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007162FT-10237">2,035</a> 6,425 8,460 50% 62% 71% 3 / 3 Footwear</span></span> <br />
<br />
Non London<br />
London 55,270</span></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><br />
Complete University Guide combines all measures of student satisfaction, including non-academic, to rank 83 universities teaching economics degrees<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/universityguide">theguardian.com/education/universityguide</a> lists Univerity of the Arts as having the worst student feedback of any university across all courses. knocking London School of Economics off bottom place.<br />
<br />
<br />
University of the arts is 73rd out of 81 for satisfaction in "art and design" and 3rd out of three for "footwear"<br />
<br />
The second column links to a unistats page for each institution from which satisfaction levels for stimulated / interested / applied are drawn.<br />
<br />
</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Cardiff' Economics Professor Patrick Minford wrote that "</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i>we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.... But this shouldn’t scare us".</i> His students would rather eliminate his course. which</span> has a 46% stimulating syllabus - the lowest. Imperial's Financial Statistics score one point worse, as financial stats courses tend to do.</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><br />
University of Liverpool also teaches a Business Economics degree which scores in the mid 50s for student feedback.<br />
<br />
International students per institution are quoted from the Complete University Guide. A footnote links to any free available data about the proportion of international students at each college from the Higher Education Statistics Agency. Breakdown by course is not offered.<br />
</span><br />
<br />
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Reasons for picking economics and fashion / footwear courses.:<br />
<br />
I comment on University of the Arts Fashion courses and the footwear example because they are close to something I know about.<br />
I comment on Economics degrees next because I did an economics degree.<br />
I haven't worked out a broader picture of subjects I know nothing about.<br />
I haven't worked-out how to link student satisfaction with the proportion of international students on every UK university course, and these two linked to rent levels<br />
There's a footnote about what data is available for free: you could probably do a lot better than me if you are deft with spreadsheets, but the information by course and international student proportion is not available for free. You could try asking on Whatdotheyknow.com as a freedom of information request maybe.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2015/jul/03/universities-dont-understand-how-international-students-learn"><span style="color: black;">This Guardian article</span></a> shows me how little I know about the subject, except <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">my own particular background</a> which would take too long to explain.</span></h4>
. </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">London College of Fashion, University of the Arts<br />
- scores 73 / 81 for art & design subjects, 3 / 3 for footwear, <br />
- diverted Higher Education Funding council money from knowledge transfer partnerships in the UK to factories in China.<br />
- acts as "secretariat" to a group in the House of Lords<br />
- gets funding from Nike<br />
- gets funding from each London Mayor to show Chinese-made fashion, reducing airtime and column-inches for UK-made products (as part of the preparation for London Fashion Week, shared with other fashion colleges).<br />
- attracts unhappy students to the most crowded expensive part of London<br />
- charges £17,500 a year tuition fee to overseas students</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
A separate problem is University of the Arts, London College of Fashion, which is in the wrong place - central London. Clothing and footwear manufacturers are often in small towns - typically in the midlands - or sometimes North and East London. There are inner-city ones in Manchester Leicester and Northamptonshire. <br />
<br />
I would like a London fashion college to do a few things which it does not do.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>quantitative data about clothing and footwear manufacturing</b><br />
I would like to compile a complete list of clothing and footwear manufacturers, based on income tax and VAT data, maybe with help from government because tax data is exempt from freedom of information requests under the revenue and customs act. London's British Fashion Council, like London College of Fashion, publish no such list. If asked at a public event, their staff will say something like <i>"personal recommendation is the best way to find a factory"</i>, and talk about <i>"sampling"</i>, which is the same as manufacturing but more expensive. Lists like <a href="http://www.letsmakeithere.org/"><i>"Lets Make it Here"</i></a>, sponsored by the Department for Business, are opt-in lists which manufacturers are expected to discover and sign-up for. <br />
<br />
This is relevant to migration. I imagine that migrants with English as a second language and craft skills want to be part of manufacturing industry, rather than doing customer service jobs. There was some evidence that I don't have to hand about the huge number of people in Tower Hamlets who wrote manufacturing trades like sewing machinist on visits to the jobcentre or when claiming benefits. <br />
<br />
This is relevant to economic estimates of how money trickles-through the UK economy and whether it turns into good jobs or tax revenue. Oxford Economics' "Value of Fashion" report finds no recent input-output data to estimate how the money trickles-round the UK economy, and uses 1998 data about footwear factories to try to estimate how things like the wages of British Home Store staff might be spent on UK footwear. I happen to have a list of UK footwear manufacturers from 1998 and more than half of them are crossed-out with a closing date, after the exchange-rate regime made life impossible for them in the 1980s and 1990s. So the data that leads to statements like "Fashion contributes X billion to the UK economy", is flawed data. The report is also written very much to please the client, I think. Not the taxpayer who pays British Fashion Council, but the clique of politicians and appointed staff who organise British Fashion Council. So rather some other assumptions are made. "Fashion" is a slippery word. It can mean fashioning or choosing a fashion. Oxford economics chooses clothing and footwear retail of far-eastern products through chain-stores like British Home Store or Primark as the biggest part of their word "fashion", and estimate huge benefits about, say British Home Stores tax contribution, which we now know to be untrue because the taxpayer had to bail-out the staff pension.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>I would like the college, or someone, to encourage shared work spaces available by the hour for lasting of footwear or cutting of uppers, so that Londoners could try making shoes, but the college has not done that in an affordable way. There are some odd things that other people have done, but nothing from London College of Fashion itself. However there is money from private sponsors and central governments Higher Education Funding Council that might be spent on this. It is diverted </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Run courses for Londoners who want to fashion things, as the name of their college suggests. That would include cheap short courses in how to sew or do accounts without an accountant, working-up to career courses in pattern cutting, machine maintenance and improvisation, and manufacturing. You would expect them to use government money for knowledge transfer partnerships as the name suggests, but the person they employ for that has no fashion experience outside the college and uses the scheme to promote a course.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
London College of Fashion have a history of closing technical courses, I have noticed over the years as I glance at the footwear courses they inherited from Cordwainers College. I went on a short evening class and found it over-priced and un-supported by anything like a maker-lab for London business or a Knowledge Transfer Partnership or even access to the library for ex-students or for people in the industry. The administration appeared to be deliberately bad at describing it to students in an attempt to run it down, and they succeeded; the second part of the course usually didn't run, I was told, for lack of applicants. A remaining footwear course - the first on their list is a full time degree - is ranked third out of three in the UK for student satisfaction and all London College of Fashion courses are ranked 73 / 81 for art and design, sharing the bottom of the league table with some other recruiters of overseas students, Glasgow and Edinburgh Universities. <br />
<br />
I think that a survey of students and graduates from London college of Fashion would show that they can study dress design without being well qualified in pattern cutting, or dress manufacturing, or web design and sales. Even if they are good at finding manufactures to work with, they still have to find a way to sell clothes. <br />
<br />
If University of the Arts' London College of Fashion was interested in helping UK-based students begin manufacturing, it would host maker-spaces for people to start manufacturing, and short courses for people in the industry already. I see no sign of that. It does not even allow local manufacturers to use the library, unless they ask for an invite with a maximum of one invitation per day. There is someone there for knowledge Transfer Partnerships, but he has a background in film and says "we don't do bespoke"; he seems to use the system to promote a course rather than help businesses.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
University of the Arts is also a lobby group, a major receiver of government grants, and a rather covert political organisation. It has several spin-off organisations, so outsiders find it hard to know where the boundaries of the organisation are and how much it overlaps, for example, with British Fashion Council or, in the past, with the London Development Agency or the All Party Group for Ethics and Sustainability in Fashion. Sometimes the boundaries are confusing to people who work there. A PR agent for London College of Fashion was at a Department for Business consultation about export promotion. She said it would be great to have the kind of money given for the Asiana Design For Life project in Kenya - there was a lot of of government money for that - but she didn't know which part of government it came from. I guess it was the Department for International Development. Another project was a series of seminars called "<a href="http://archive.is/4traY">Making it Ethically in China</a>", advertised on the college website with badges from "Own-it", "UAL Ventures", "Creative Connexions" and "London Development Agency". I did a freedom of information request to London Development Agency to ask why their badge was on it and the reply was that they didn't really know; maybe it was a mistake.<br />
<br />
The Centre for Sustainable Fashion, a college department which acts as "secretariat" to the all party group, lists a rather frightening list of sponsors and successes in obtaining grants from taxpayers<br />
http://sustainable-fashion.com/about/funding-and-partners/ If these have a pure motive for paying professors, then it is a pity that London-based manufacturers and sewers and sellers cannot have the benefit; the project is a cuckoo for funding. If these funders have a mixed motive for paying professors, I guess it is to remove the interests of UK manufactuers from the discussion and to insert other discussion points like whether a piece of clothing can go in the compost bin, or whether the long supply chain can be audited, or whether the audited factory might be just slightly better than an un-audited factory next door in Bangladesh or one that fails the audit.<br />
<br />
The party line (I argue on other web sites) is pro-globalisation, anti-welfare state, and anti UK manufacturing. It was founded by someone recommended for the House of Lords by a former Mayor of London. <br />
<br />
There is also a party rhetoric - a series of presentational tricks - originally worked-out by Futerra Communications and pushed via an organisation called Ethical Fashion Forum. <br />
<a href="http://veganline.com/fair-fashion.htm#ethical-fashion">http://veganline.com/fair-fashion.htm#ethical-fashion</a> explains in detail how the presentational tricks work.<br />
<br />
London College of Fashion is also good at getting endorsements from London mayors, who authorise spending on London Fashion Week. This is the latest one in an interview with Vogue, doubtless placed by a PR and lobby group. The odd thing is that Khan does not seem to have read unistats reports about London College of Fashion, even though I sent them to him. He also thinks that people coming to London, reducing space for other things, is good, which is not what property prices, homelessness, and transport over-crowding suggest. He also uses a cliche - state of the art - suggesting that he has been primed to give a certain answer.<br />
<br />
<i><b>VOGUE</b>. <span style="color: red;">London is home to some of the best fashion schools in the world, many of which are oversubscribed - what will you do to address this</span>?</i><br />
<i><b class="bb-strong">SK:</b> It's great that so many people want to come to London to study fashion. We are blessed with some of the world's most famous institutions like the London College of Fashion and Central Saint Martins. I always love visiting the University of the Arts. But being popular brings with it its own challenges - and to cope with that, we need to support our fashion schools to expand. The mayor can help with this - from sourcing land, to supporting them through the planning process and making sure that in large developments we find space for new state-of-the-art premises. The fashion industry will have a friend and ally in me at City Hall.</i><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.london.gov.uk/people/mayoral/sadiq-khan/register-of-interests">Khan declares no corporate sponsorship</a>, so I imagine he hopes for public benefit and perhaps a bit of publicity rather than money by being a <i>"friend and ally"</i> of Chinese fashion manufacturing promoted at London Fashion Week and bad courses in overcrowded places. He doesn't mention the people who would have got press coverage for making products in the UK if London Fsahion Week was not subsidised to promote products made in the far east and China.<br />
<br />
It seems odd that an institution called "University of the Arts" incorporating London College of <strike>Printing</strike> Communication, St Martens College of Art, London College of Fashion, and footwear courses taken-over from Cordwainers College, should be on the same list as red brick universities teaching economics. But they say they share a "big picture", and I guess this is a picture of markets in very efficient equilibrium, un-troubled by issues of like whether a country has an NHS or girls secondary schools or unemployment pay, untroubled by human rights, and so keen that products should be bought at the cheapest place this market suggests, which one of their lectures says used to be Canton near the coast but moves further and further inland as wages rise. (The video is no longer online but we taxpayers paid for it to be made by Own-It and London College of Fashion, who are both the same thing, and showed a fashion graduate who sold fur products, initially made in the UK but, she said, paid for with various special knacks to make that profitable before she took her business to China). <br />
<br />
University of the Arts was lead contractor with various red brick London Universities to the Higher Education Funding Council money to put UK designers and manufacturers in front of Chinese and far-eastern manufactures, in hope of benefiting both sides. They got the grant. It was called "Creative Connexions" and ran for a few years from 2005 onwards in hope of future commercial continuation.. This is a quote from the funding bid.</blockquote>
<a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/creative_connexions_brief_and_bu_2#comment-7512">https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/creative_connexions_brief_and_bu_2#comment-7512</a><br />
<blockquote>
<i>"Key Project Partners</i><br />
<i>The core partnership is strategically complementary and has a track record of designing, managing and delivering on major publicly funded projects including large--scale research projects and knowledge transfer under HEIF 2. It brings together</i><br />
<i>● <b>University of the Arts London</b> (the lead partner) </i><br />
<i>● <b>LBS</b> [presumably London Business School]</i><br />
<i>● <b>School of Oriental and African Studies </b>(SOAS) </i><br />
<i>● <b>Kings College London</b></i><br />
<i>● <b>Centre for Creative Business</b> (a UAL/ LBS joint venture)</i><br />
<i><br />
</i> <i>The partnership features universities recognised as leading UK institutions with 5/5*research grades, which through well established networks are already very active internationally in student recruitment, course delivery and knowledge transfer. The partners are well known to each other, have very good working relationships and share the ‘big picture’ with respect to their strategic international development."</i> - funding bid for Higher Education Funding by University of the Arts<br />
<br />
The funding bid shows how these institutions are known to government departments and each other from their shared recruitment work, and how they do it. They make irrelevant statements, such as research intensity which is not very relevant to undergraduate courses, and they make misleading statements such as "recognised as leading", for courses at the bottom of league tables for student satisfaction. So I suggest that some method of making them write more clearly to prospective students and funders would be a good thing.<br />
<br />
I believe that London College of Fashion and its associated companies help UK industry and taxpayers as a Cuckoo chick helps the other chicks. It begs for grants and government help with an enormous beak, which I imagine is a PR department and I know succeeds alongside Greater London Authority's London Fashion Week and associated <a href="https://planb4fashion.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/graduate-fashion-week-and-fashion-scout.html">Graduate Fashion Week, and Fashion Scout</a>, and UAL Ventures Ltd (standing for University of the Arts) which ran Creative Connexions to promote Chinese manufacturing in the UK. Another UAL Venture was a group of seminars called "<a href="http://archive.is/4traY">Making it ethically in China</a>". <br />
<br />
I don't know if Cuckoo chicks attack other chicks in the nest or just crowd them out like this - a conversation between a journalist and a Nike contractor described as an ethical fashion expert and working with a trade association that gets taxpayer subsidy. I do know that London College of Fashion tutors make similar points to the Nike consultant here:<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Adam Vaughan, journalist:</h4>
<i>"If we can generally guess what the problems are, can we shop by country, picking good ones and bad ones? Usually you can see where a product was made."</i><br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Clare Lissaman, Nike consultant who got the interview because of UK taxpayer support for Futerra Communications' "Ethical Fashion Forum". </h4>
<i>"I don't think you can compare countries. You're just as likely to have a sweatshop down the road here in London in the east end as you are in China, India or Bangladesh. One of the best factories I've come across in the world was in China. One of the worst factories I've come across in the world was in China."</i></blockquote>
<blockquote>
I single-out London College of Fashion because it does so much to damage UK manufacturing and crowd-out press coverage of UK manufacturers, but there are other bad art and design courses too at the bottom of the Guardian league table, and they are also colleges with a lot of international students: Edinburgh and Glasgow.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Economics courses that are a danger to the economy because some people take them seriously</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
You can read a detailed 2013 report about Mancherster Uni's "unlearning"<br />
<a href="http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/economics-education-and-unlearning" title="
“It is time to rethink some of the basic building blocks of economics”. These are the words of Andrew Haldane, Executive Director for Financial Stability at the Bank of England, in his foreword to this report. Economics is in crisis. The profession is under attack from the media, employers and the general public. The economists we are producing are not performing the tasks society demands from them. The Financial Crisis is the obvious example of the current problem but by no means the only one. Worries about climate change are escalating to crisis levels. Massive wealth inequality is creating a backlash from think tanks, journalists and academics alike. Unemployment in Europe and beyond is motivating ordinary people to demand answers from the powers-that-be; the powers-that-be then continually defer to economists to provide these answers.
Economics, Education and Unlearning looks at what we, PCES, believe to be the problem; economics education. If economics education isn’t fit for purpose, it will not produce the skilled economists we need and society will suffer as a result. A rethink of the discipline is required or else failures in economics, such as the Financial Crisis, will inevitably be repeated. The support of Andrew Haldane, demonstrates how important this issue is to those who run our economy. We also enjoy the support of prominent economists from across the political spectrum including Lord Robert Skidelsky, Ha-Joon Chang and Stephen Davies. The push for change within economics is gaining momentum. Articles published about PCES in the Guardian were in their top 5 most read articles of the day and received up to 17,000 shares on Facebook, as well as starting a debate on the blogosphere that reached as far as Paul Krugman. We have since been discussed by the Financial Times, the Economist, the Times, the Washington Post and the BBC among other organisations. This report marks the next step in a debate about economics education that has caught the public imagination.
">http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/economics-education-and-unlearning</a>/ <br />
or more generally... <br />
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/24/students-post-crash-economics">theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/24/students-post-crash-economics</a><br />
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/28/economics-students-neoclassical-theory"><br />
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/28/economics-students-neoclassical-theory<br />
theguardian.com/books/2017/feb/09/the-econocracy-review-joe-earle-cahal-moran-zach-ward-perkins</a><br />
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04svjbj" title="At universities from Glasgow to Kolkata, economics students are fighting their tutors over how to teach the subject in the wake of the crash.
">bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04svjbj </a><br />
<br />
... and find that these are largely a set of cheap-to-teach short courses based on wrote-learning; only 11 out of 48 options at Manchester mentioned the word "critical" in their descriptions, and few other universities are much better. Even the protest group regards teaching of theories-before-application as normal - they just want more different theories. The idea of starting with a factual problem, and for students to make-up their own theories or pick-out the most useful, is not mentioned. University College London says it's starting the system; maybe results haven't shown-up in the student satisfaction scores yet.<br />
<br />
Standard in my English degree, when I studied English and Economics at Keele, but not in Economics. Standard in a thing called Nuffield Physica A level that I did at the start of the 80s, but again not in Economics.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Here are some problems with economics teaching. </span></h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>The lack of public administration on the economics syllabus relates to the idea of UK economics graduates becoming "ambassadors" for Britain; they become ambassadors for the country in the textbook, which is more like Bangladesh with its sweatshops. I don't see this point made anywhere else than here. </li>
<li>The problem of wrong theory taught and</li>
<li>without critical thinking is mentioned in the guardian and BBC reports, with Manchester as an example. <a href="https://veg-1980s.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="Keele economics after funding cuts of a third and unemployement about a quarter after economic mismanagement in the 1090s ">My own experience in the 1980s was not much better</a>. <br />
</li>
<li>Theory not applied - a problem noted from unistats scores which I quote below. </li>
<li>It's often done in high-rent areas, particularly central London, with the effect of increasing rents and transport over-crowding.<br />
Other common features of the colleges that have large numbers of international students are my own impression . (I wrote another blog post about low-scoring degree courses called "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">star courses</a>" a few years ago) </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">public administration not mentioned in economics courses</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Economics courses include macro-economics. Macro-economics courses do not normally mention half of the economy, that runs insurance-like services which people use at some points in their lives and pay for through their working lives. There is no discussion of why these industries tend to end-up funded from tax or compulsory insurance payments in Europe, and what happens in countries with much less public service like Bangladesh (the answer is that they have vast families in hope of family support). Instead, if you study the history of economics teaching, or if you had a 1950s McArthy-era American teaching you face to face, you discover that macro-economics teaching alarmed college sponsors in 1950s America. They boycotted the first textbook that mentioned Keynesian demand management during the 1930s recession. Eventually it got on the syllabus, but compulsory national insurance didn't; that was a step too far for republicans, and there are misleading definitions of "public goods" and "merit goods" taught instead. So economics graduates are not ambassadors for the UK when they move away; they are ambassadors for 1950s America, and likely to retain sweatshops in places like Bangladesh that put people in the UK out of work.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Wrong theory</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Evidence for damage to the economy is obvious - the Queen asked LSE lecturers why none of their theories predicted the banking crash and got no answer. There are some other points.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Uncritical thinking</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Critical thinking is needed everywhere. It's vital. But the minister's letter to the migration advisory committee is full of cliches and conventional wisdom held by lobby groups, suggesting, I think, a lack of critical thinking. In contrast, a Department for Business report on international students found that the expectation of critical thinking was something that attracted them to study in the UK. There is also a web page by the University and College Union which graphs the average staff student ratio in higher education colleges in similar countries to the UK, and puts the ratio at about highest or lowest (highest students to lowest staff) in the UK. I guess this is important if someone is going to take the time to write "this is an unexpected opinion but..." on an essay, or hold a tutorial group, or remember a students' name in that tutorial group.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">theory not applied</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Economics or finance-related courses are common choices for international students, but it's hard to imagine any course like that being useful if not applied, and the courses score badly for that. So when a statement is made like "contributes X jobs to the UK economy", there are not many people with the skills to <a href="http://bit.ly/reportmethods">apply the maths and the stats</a> and refute the statement. When I check the current University College London page for economics <a href="https://www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/degrees/economics-bsc-econ/">https://www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/degrees/economics-bsc-econ/</a> .. it states that <i>"The department's fundamental premise is that students should learn how to do economics themselves, rather than just learn how the academic staff or other economists do it."</i>, so there is a chance that student feedback scores will get better soon as this new system sounds good. I also read that overseas students are charged £20,000 a year, I guess just for tuition and lectures, so the economic theory of how UCL digests these huge amounts of money is probably not taught. </blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">common features of colleges with high numbers of international undergraduates</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The same list of colleges / quangos / grant artists / cuckoos / bureaucracies / institutions / corporations have bad student feedback on unistats for their economics courses, which is no surprise given the syllabus I read on the University College London web site for economics: it is not fit for purpose. So I think that success at filling places with overseas students masks failure to provide a good economics course to any student. I pick economics because it is a course I studied myself. It is also a marmite course: when you dislike it, you know that you dislike it. I pick overseas students because the consultation picked that group. It's interested in population in places like central London or Oxford where there are a lot of people, but the market failure in selling economics courses is the same for students who...</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>look at the college more than the course when applying<br />
</li>
<li>have no idea of the ratio of teaching staff to students on their course, or even whether it runs tutorials and how many people are on each one. This data doesn't get listed on Unistats for some reason</li>
<li>are impressed by research intensity which doesn't improve their degree course</li>
<li>mistakenly think their degree is a trade qualification, or </li>
<li>read words like "vibe" and "buzz" on college prospectuses and think they'll get it on a Monday morning in rush-hour in a town centre. I'm thinking of a London College of Fashion prospectus I read in about 2005, which hardly mentioned the syllabus at all and didn't mention the staff ratio.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote>
The consultation briefing paper notes that Indian students numbers are falling off; maybe they've learned to read the Unistats scores.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Jottings and ideas about economics degrees done by international students</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Most of the colleges are ones which were well-known 50 years ago. If they were hotels, they would be called "The Grand". Most are in city centres - mainly London - where 55,700 extra people extra people crowd-out other housing, transport users and businesses. Oxford is just as expensive. I suspect that Unistats no longer quotes housing costs next to each course as it used to - or maybe I've missed the link or it's on another web site, but it's another point which overseas students miss. Most colleges on the list are proud of their research record, suggesting that they are more interested in paid research, consultancy, and postgraduate teaching than degrees - except as a source of revenue.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">No course: Edinburgh, Glasgow would rather stop teaching economics than teach properly</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The first two were mentioned in a Guardian report alongside Manchester and LSE as teaching courses so bad that students wanted to protest. One of them - probably Glasgow - assigned all first year teaching to the online robots that come with the textbooks and will mark test results. Students called the year a "£9,000 lobotomy". Now it looks as though the colleges and existing staff would rather give-up teaching economics degrees at all than run them properly. A year or two ago I did check student feedback for the degree courses, which existed then, and found the feedback bad. </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Economics degrees at University of Newcastle </span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Newcastle University has some of the lowest unistats feedback scores, probably for running a discredited "BSc" economics degree. In its favor, I guess that rents around Newcastle are low because of economic mismanagement by UK governments over the years, which I doubt the course mentions. 47% of students thought that staff made the subject interesting, and only 50% thought the course allowed them to apply what they had learned, so calling it a science is a bit odd. I mean: in Biology you look at biological things with microscopes and rulers as well as learning someone's theory, don't you? You don't just learn wrong theory and get told you'll have to do a postgraduate course to learn what a real dandelion looks like.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Coventry University economics degree course looks popular - an exception</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
An exception to the pattern of bad feedback is Coventry University, which has a high proportion of overseas students and gets good student feedback for its economics course.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Notes for a response</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The gist of a response is that it is bad to rip-off economics students, particularly those from a long way away who haven't checked the course and the student feedback. A second point in the response is that there is no benefit to luring people into very expensive town centres - not for them or from other people in the town centres. A third point is that some courses are really bad. For one historical reason or another, they teach misleading facts, useless theory, or un-usable skills. And that is before the college management decide to tweak the staff ratio so the course makes a lot of money to spend on something more eye-catching or on sales and PR. So these courses should be allowed to close for everybody's sake, rather than used to con overseas students into thinking they're worth three years and <strike>£9,000</strike> fees in the high teens each year. Universities UK are keen on overseas student places, http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2014/international-students-in-higher-education.pdf - p38 ... but I don't see how further overcrowding in London can boost employment, nor how they calculate their figures. They quote Oxford Economics, who wrote a discredited report (I think) called "The Value of Fashion", <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Suggestions</span></h4>
Visas require some online tick-boxing by prospective students, so they tick a box to say they have checked...</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>faults to look-out for on courses like the one they have applied to</li>
<li>student feedback for the course applied for (not for research quality if it an undergraduate degree for example, but the actual course)</li>
<li>economics degree applicants should understand that compulsory social insurance is a good way of explaining most of the things that the public sector does, and that an economics degree without a public administration element is worth avoiding. </li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
That way, the bad economics courses might die a rapid death and be replaced by something sane. Just in case anyone reads this far, here are notes in progress about bad economics courses and how they keep themselves going by luring-in overseas students. It needs reformatting and some of the columns are just cut-and pasted out of Complete University Guide; they don't help. </blockquote>
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Footnote on sources:</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education">https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education</a> quotes these colleges as having highest numbers of overseas students, and says that finance and business related subjects are most popular.<br />
I take the examples of economics and of footwear, because I have studied similar courses so can try to explain the data.<br />
<br />
The first three columns are numbers of overseas students, with a link to recent unistats feedback on the first column. <br />
<br />
My choice of Economics might not be typical of <i>"business and administrative studies"</i> courses that I read are popular with international students. I don't yet know how to do a fuller comparison of the percentage of international students on all UK courses and student feedback on those courses, or either of those compared to rent in the areas where students live and study. There is a footnote on free data available.<br />
<br />
I mention Universities UK's report by Oxford Economics on my long post of notes in progress: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html</a></div>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Footnote on data: </span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I emailed the Higher Education Funding Council asking if they had free data linking student satisfaction to the percentage of international students on each course, for example each undergraduate degree course in economics. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>I can confirm that we do have some free data available on our website which should help answer your question. The most recent data we currently have published is 2015/16, and there are some free tables to download from this page: <a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/publications/students-2015-16"> https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/publications/students-2015-16</a> The one you may be particularly interested in is <a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/files/student_1516_table_F.xlsx">Table F: Percentage of HE students by subject area, mode of study, sex and domicile</a> We only really categorise courses by the subject taught, and the breakdown in the above table is the highest level of detail. Another table with a more granular breakdown of subject can be found here: <a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/file/6551/download?token=rWGoQgTX">Students by subject</a> although this is just a count rather than percentage. Further tables can be found on this page: <a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/key-tables">https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/key-tables</a></i></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.i-graduate.org/services/international-student-barometer/">International Student Barometer</a> is a site I discovered after writing this post. I haven't checked what's free and public on the site and what you have to pay for</blockquote>
<blockquote>
I see that my choice of economics wasn't neat. Somewhere I saw a reference that said they most study <i>"business and administrative studies"</i>, a heading including these sub-headings. </blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Business studies</li>
<li>Management studies</li>
<li>Finance</li>
<li>Accounting</li>
<li>Marketing</li>
<li>Human resource management</li>
<li>Office skills</li>
<li>Hospitality, leisure, sport, tourism & transport</li>
<li>Others in business & administrative studies</li>
<li>Broadly-based programmes within business & administrative studies </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
There are probably pages on the Guardian University Guide, Complete University Guide or others for all business and administrative studies scores together by college, and results might differ a lot from Economics scores, because Economics is a rather troubled subject with a history of dis-satisfaction.<br />
<br />
Within these categories I happen to know that University of East London's Hospitality and Tourism course had one of the lowest graduate employment rates of any UK degree course, when these things were more easily searchable on the Unistats site in about 2015.</blockquote>
<br />
🖨 For a printer-friendly version of this page, try the "text" option from a recent cache on Google or Bing. That's from the downward-pointing arrow next to the link on search results. Or a cut-and-paste to a word processor. </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-35672424215010296382018-01-01T17:04:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:22:34.406+01:00 Migration Advisory Committee call for evidence: International Students<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Impact of International Students in the UK:</span> <span id="goog_88741596"></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/"></a><span id="goog_88741597"></span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><a href="https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/739092/Impact_intl_students_CfE_1of3.pdf">Call for Evidence Responses</a> - part 1 of 3 - page 217 from "Individual C" it says.</span></blockquote>
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><br />Introduction: some suggestions with reasons further-down.</span></h4>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html" title="table of data showing economics course feedback scores for the colleges with most international students, showing that most have the worst student feedback.">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a><br />
shows economics courses with worst student feedback getting most international students, and so making most money because some of the international fees are much higher. <br />
<br />
This response is made without funding and without great short-term memory so it rambles under some of the headings. Thanks for patience in reading the bits that ramble, particularly because I've just written something quite rude and the theme continues. My name and address are at the end, with archive links to pages that caught the 26th January deadline for evidence to the Migration Advisory Committee.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Lobby data doesn't mention "crowding" or "full" next to student migration<br />
The Greater London Authority changes it to "agglomeration" </span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Lobby data is commissioned by lobbyists from Oxford Economics or London Economics.<br />
<br />
Crowding is my word for housing & transport overload that could be mentioned under most of the headings below. For housing, or tickets, or space in the congestion zone, or polluted air, or tiny bits of space shared with too many people. As someone who lives in a crowded city, I don't think it works very well. Any provider of services finds it expensive to hire staff and space in crowded inner cities, and so harder to run services. Meanwhile there are disproportionate needs for staff to run parts of the housing and transport systems at inefficient maximum capability, just as health and social care are run at maximum capacity everywhere. It would be good to read about why immigration is bad for cities that are full from the most full city - London - but any statements are hard to find.<br />
<br />
The Greater London Authority publishes speeches from the Mayor and reports from GLA economics. Unfortunately they report what lobbyists tell them, except lobbyists don't mention "crowding" or "full", while the GLA mentions "agglomeration".</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">International students often take courses with bad feedback, in expensive areas like London</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10004063FT-L101-UBEC/ReturnTo/" title="Complete University Guide subject ranking by satisfaction, January 2018. The Guardian guide puts them second worst, ahead of University of East London. The link is to the course Unistats page">London School of Economics' economics degree students are least satisfied.</a></li>
<li>University of the Arts students are <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/universityguide" title="From The Guardian Universities Guide I clicked University League Tables and sorted by satisfaction">altogether least satisfied</a>..</li>
</ul>
If both colleges closed, the world would be a happier place.<br />
Both teach in the most expensive areas of London. <br />
Both do a lot of business with government, for example through London Fashion Week, <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/02/budget.html">working with the Greater London Authority on the Queen Elizabeth Park Project</a>, or teaching students on Chevening Scholarships, so governement departments could be making the problem worse or have a chance to make it better.<br />
<br />
I don't have the spreadsheet data or the skill to link every course's feedback with the proportion of international students on that course. The data isn't free and I am not deft with spreadsheets, but the example of a troubled subject like economics at the colleges that take most international students, most often in financial subjects, could say something about all the other courses that international students do. By chance a lot of international students from the far east study at London College of Fashion and other University of the Arts colleges, putting them in the same league table of colleges with most international students which is nearly the same as the league table of colleges with least satisfied students, as you can see on (<a href="http://archive.is/JWMpT" rel="nofollow">archived page</a>)<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Afterthought. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
When the Migration Advisory Committee published their report, with access to paid-for data and some quite nifty regression skills, they read the evidence a differently.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/739090/Impact_intl_students_annexes.pdf gives the result in Annex D. The difference is partly that they measure satisfaction on the "overall" measure rather than "intellectually stimulating", and they measure all courses rather than the extreme ones like business studies courses in central London. Beyond, that, I have not quite caught-up.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">How to help international students find better courses in cheaper areas.</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The Higher Education Funding Council</span> </h4>
could restrict funding to colleges that advertise badly abroad, and restrict funding to one or two colleges that work directly against the interests of UK taxpayers, UK students and UK manufacturing like London College of Fashion that ran a Creative Connexions project and published <a href="https://issuu.com/shomil/docs/growing_sustainable_fashion_economies">course material and case studies</a> about fictional organisations related to <a href="https://planb4fashion.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/ethical-fashion-forum-why-dig-what-dirt.html">Ethical Fashion Forum</a> for the Department for International Development. I think that a record of publications that are untrue, and of hosting a Creative Connexions project designed to reduce UK manufacturing, should be a big factor in whether the college gets further funding. I think London College of Fashion should not get further funding from UK taxpayers via the higher education funding council. I don't know if any can be clawed back. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The Advertising Standards Authority</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
has already required six colleges to withdraw vague and misleading claims: https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/universities-comparative-claims.html </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The British Council</span></h4>
service to promote higher education can be changed to offer course advice rather than promoting colleges. I understand that the British Council is largely funded by the Foreign Office and it might get a Department for Business grant for this work. At the moment it offers an extra service to colleges that pay more. I think this should stop, because it encourages the promotion of colleges over courses and so promotes bad courses.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Home Office</span></h4>
visa application systems could have an online form with a few questions, to check that students know what syllabus they have applied to study, know the Unistats feedback and the relative housing costs, and have not seen too much vague language on the prospectus. <br />
The form could ask prospective students to cut and paste the syllabus from Unistats or one of a list of sites that compile the data. The same idea could be taken much further and maybe staff at Unistats could advise how - for example a check that applicants know the common faults of each type of course according to impartial staff, who might say it doesn't lead to a job in the form applied-for and that some other combination is better, or graduates and drop-outs, who might say that it's boring or list things they wish they'd known when they applied. "London is expensive and anonymous". Things like that.<br />
<br />
The Home Office could do this for all applications backed by colleges. The college would then have to tell the applicant how to fill-in the form, and avoid using vague words on their prospectus.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Foreign Office</span></h4>
<i>"The London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) is once again the top destination for 2012/13 Chevening Scholars, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office has reported" - <a href="http://www.lse.ac.uk/website-archive/newsAndMedia/newsArchives/2012/10/Chevening.aspx" rel="nofollow">LSE web site</a></i><br />
<br />
Cease Chevening Scholarships to <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>economics courses that don't mention the welfare state, or </li>
<li>courses with bad student feedback or </li>
<li>courses taught in the most crowded areas.</li>
</ul>
The current system is that people from other countries get student grants which are not available to UK taxpayers, to learn how to mis-manage the system which UK taxpayers pay for, take-up space in city centres while they are doing it, and then go home to other countries and run them just as badly.They are part of the critical mass which keeps these awful courses open.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What impact does the payment </span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">of migrant student fees </span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">to the educational provider have?<span style="color: #0b5394;"></span></span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Migrant fees from outside the EU are about double per head, with double impact.</span></h4>
</li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Migrants are worse at choosing courses, so the worst course makes the most money.</span></h4>
</li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Any other group of students who are easily-led or mis-led have the same bad effect, but students who pay double fees have a multiplied bad effect. Everybody looses including the student, home students sitting alongside, anyone who would benefit from better educated students, or another educational provider looking for students and a chance to do a better course that's more interesting to study or teach. So even the people who teach Economics 101 at London School of Economics suffer a bad impact from migrant students, because they loose a chance to teach a more interesting course in a cheaper area. <br />
<br />
<a href="http://filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pdfs/small/cab-66-31-wp-42-547-27.pdf"><b><span style="color: #0b5394;">Social Insurance & Allied Services</span></b></a> <br />
<br />
Take the welfare state as an example of something probably not taught on the worst course like London School of Economics' Economics degree, but more interesting to teach at another course to more interested students in a cheaper area. The standard LSE course takes two years to get to the point, during which you are taught how to be a computer. Then in year three you can take various courses which don't include how to fund the welfare state. You can take a course in Game Theory but not how to keep a hospital open. That topic is banished to minor courses with more obscure names - maybe Public Administration nor something like that, as though you would know at the age of 18 to apply for a course in public administration and economics, if it exists.<br />
<br />
If a course began with problems that other people face, told students what theories were available, and let them choose the relevant ones, then a lot of time would be saved, leaving time to teach what students wanted to study. <br />
<br />
I think this bad teaching influences our politicians. If you ask one how to fund the NHS, they don't know what to say. The Prime Minister was caught with the question and said <i>"people are getting older"</i>, and I doubt many prime ministers could have answered better. A bit like a rocket scientist saying <i>"it just goes pop and there's mess everywhere". </i>Or a brain surgeon.<br />
<i></i></blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">There is a table of data showing economics course feedback scores for the colleges with most international students, showing that most have the worst student feedback.</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a></span> <span style="font-weight: normal;">(</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://archive.is/JWMpT" rel="nofollow">26/1/18</a> )</span></h4>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html"> </a></li>
</ul>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What are the fiscal impacts of migrant students, (including student loan arrangements)?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Crowding costs are the obvious urgent problem, but not mentioned in lobby data.</span></h4>
I think the fiscal cost of public services rises more per head as crowding increases, as a curve, so it is less per head in Lampeter and more per head in London. I think the data funded by lobby groups via Oxford Economics or London Economics is silent here, as you would expect. London Economics does do some work to try and price public services per head in different constituencies, but only has two zones for health spending, and has a theory that some categories of public spending are much higher in Wales for example, so I don't think their figures help and they don't state how the figures are worked-out.<br />
.<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Take housing</span>. </h4>
Housing is more expensive to manage if it is scarce and expensive than if nobody cares about a months’ vacancy or qualification for a special needs waiting list. There used to be some hotels around Argyle Square and Gower Street that might take a guest on housing benefit and advertised in Loot. I expect the guest had to be convincing at some kind of interview and provide lots of ID, but they did it, making a lot of social housing provision unnecessary. Now that housing benefit is harder to get and housing costs in Camden are about the highest in the UK, I doubt you can still get a hotel room on housing benefit. Gower Street is also the main address for London University; prices round Gower Street and Camden and London are increased by London University's trade<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Take transport.</span></h4>
I guess rail journeys cost more per ticket at capacity than at half capacity. Signaling, unsocial hours, and emergencies cost more at full capacity. Journeys cost more than the ticket price if one emergency stops a line from working for an hour, as they do in central London. As the limits to capacity are tested, it becomes clear that money cannot buy more tube tunnels, cubic meters of air to disperse exhaust fumes, linear meters of traffic lane or parking space, seats in existing transport, miles of commute that commutes are willing to endure. There are congestion charges in London but some streets are still too polluted by EU standards. So all services in central London have to beat the cost of harder deliveries and harder commutes. And transport is one of the more measurable factors, along with housing prices. <br />
<br />
There are plenty of less measurable fiscal costs to the numbers of public sector staff needed, the stress to them, the cost of staff turnover or bad staff, and the fiscal cost of extra wages paid to make-up. The fact that shortage occupations include emergency medicine and old-age psychiatry suggest, in part, that not enough people are trained but they also suggest that not enough people want the job at any wage after a few years in post, quite likely because of strains related to overcrowding, lack of social care in overcrowded areas, high staff turnover among colleagues, and so-on.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Take lobby data about international students: a repeated point</span></h4>
Lobbyists fund data. <br />
Universities UK finds reports from Oxford Economics; other lobbyists fund London Economics. Lobbyists want taxpayer funding or student fees, so they don’t pay for data about overcrowding and its fiscal costs, obviously. Not obvious to elected mayors of London or ministers, but obvious. Mayors and ministers have a puppy-like enthusiasm for trotting-out this stuff out in speeches after going on a visit and shaking someone's hand.<br />
<br />
So as taxpayers, we read claims of benefits and have to un-pick them, un-paid, to state the costs to officials & politicians. If we send these opinions in, as I did to Sadiq Khan about a different way of funding London Fashion Week, we might get an acknowledgement from their secretaries, or might not, and then we see their next speech with the puppy-like enthusiasm for lobby data because I suppose they have met someone in person and shaken their hand and believed every word.<br />
<br />
The Mayor of London uses taxes to fund some economists directly. Their office is called GLA Economics. I hoped they would have a report on crowding of housing and transport, and so the need to have less visitors to London as students or tourists or arts audience or lured-in tech employees or any other category.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/research-and-analysis/economy-and-employment/">https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/research-and-analysis/economy-and-employment/</a><br />
<a href="https://data.london.gov.uk/gla-economics/">https://data.london.gov.uk/gla-economics/</a><br />
This is an example report: <br />
<a href="https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/research-and-analysis/economy-and-employment/economic-evidence-base-london-2016">https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/research-and-analysis/economy-and-employment/economic-evidence-base-london-2016</a><br />
Their web site does mention rising population, pollution, an a graph of median earnings falling against housing costs over time. This looks like an argument for less crowding. <br />
<br />
Next to these chapters are other pages about the need to bring more business and visitors into London: an argument for more crowding. This is the clash between evidence and policy that I do not understand, and seems so blatant that I do not know how to argue against it except by stating the obvious point about over-crowding under every heading. On a closer look, it seems that the mayor has come back from a lobby meeting, dropped-in to the GLA Economics office, and told economists to cross-out "crowding" or "full" and write "agglomeration". I have the odd quote below.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Fiscal cost of crowding: </span></h4>
(could be repeated under "how much money ... spending ... impact ... regional")<br />
<br />
This is the most important point and could sit under several headings, including fiscal costs of governing an over-crowded expensive town like London with staff on Inner London Weighting, Congestion charges, long commutes, excessive staff turnover, extra services like traffic control and congestion charging, extra costs of running services over without spare capacity for housing or social care, and so-on. Some of this is a personal cost to the person who tries to work for Haringay Social Services or such; some of it is cost to the taxpayer, and some is cost to the people who try to use these creaky services run by temps from all over the place. I pick that example because it is described in the Victoria Climbie Enquiry's report.<br />
<br />
The briefing paper notes a report on education healthcare and social services spending, which are not much used by people of student age.<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257236/impact-of-migration.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257236/impact-of-migration.pdf</a><br />
<br />
I think it's obvious that the crowding ads to the cost of those services. They have to be run without enough beds, bedsits, flats, transport seats, meters of traffic lane, parking spaces, or cubic meters of air to disperse exhaust fumes. This makes each service, from social care to education to housing, more slow and stressful to manage. There is a congestion charge. There are 24 hour traffic monitors trying to keep traffic moving even so, and people working full-time on the cameras that catch people on certain yellow box junctions when the traffic jam strands them there. All these extra public services have fiscal costs, even if those costs are funded by traffic fines or tickets<br />
<br />
Meanwhile, reports from lobby groups have nothing to say.<br />
Oxford Economics mention no costs, if I remember right. I have linked to the part of their report that states working methods. <a href="http://bit.ly/reportmethods" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/reportmethods</a><br />
<br />
London Economics does mention some costs or "fiscal impacts". One of their reports costs public costs and benefits by parliamentary constituency, and if there is a vital part that I have missed it is in how they cost public services per head in Westminster or Coleraine or West Highlands. Their main report is more national.<br />
<br />
Costs of Hosting International Students<br />
⦁ Funding Council Teaching Grants<br />
⦁ Costs of Student Support<br />
⦁ The Other Public Costs of Hosting International Students<br />
⦁ Total<br />
⦁ Other Public Costs for Students and Dependents <br />
<br />
This is the only lobby data I have seen which mentions higher costs in Gower Street, Camden, London, than in Coleraine or West Highlands. The calculation is rough, and opaque. It calculates that health costs £729 in some regions and £529 in others - there are only two bands. General public services are cheap in London, it estimates, at £84 compared to £159 in Wales. The calculation is kept private. So I don't think that lobby data helps any more than GLA Economics in making sense of the cost of crowding<br />
<br />
.<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Fiscal cost of scholarships to international students:</span></h4>
Most international students are over-charged by the colleges, but some are subsidised by the taxpayer through scholarships, I understand, even though the same taxpayer no longer gets a student grant themselves.<br />
Source<br />
<a href="https://study-uk.britishcouncil.org/options/scholarships-financial-support">https://study-uk.britishcouncil.org/options/scholarships-financial-support</a>.<br />
The Great China scholarship fund is worth a million pounds says and the Great India scholarship fund looks similar. There is an EU Erasmus program which I don't understand. The Chevening Fund is for students "personally selected" by British embassies "Funded by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and partner organisations", meaning that it is funded by removing money from the welfare state.<br />
A million pounds pays for 1890 average peoples' health costs a year at the lower rate, according to London Economics prices, but Oxford Economics says that this is only a tiny percentage of the public service funded by taxes on international students' spending. For example they spend a lot on transport - London Economics has a pictogram. They have to spend a lot on transport because some of them have courses held in London's Oxford Street. I am getting confused.<br />
<br />
If you are not a courtier but just live in the UK and pay taxes, I understand that you can only get a student loan for fees and maintenance, charged at 7%, repayable in installments if you ever earn an average income. The government pays interest at a much lower rate, but does not pass-on the saving and ministers have stated that the scheme makes no money; it makes a big mark-up but the system is expensive to run and a lot of people don't ever make an average wage with which to repay their student loan.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Fiscal cost of unraveling the statements</span></h4>
There is no government grant for un-ravelling the statements made by Oxford Economics or London Economics for public-funded organisations that want more taxpayers' money. I think that's a bit unfair because they use taxpayers' money to pay for the reports:<br />
<br />
<i>"The economic activity and employment sustained by international students’ subsistence spending generated £1 billion in tax revenues in 2014–15 – equivalent to the salaries of 31,700 nurses or 25,000 police officers"</i><br />
<a href="http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2017/economic-impact-international-students-final-WEB.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2017/economic-impact-international-students-final-WEB.pdf</a><br />
<br />
London Economics did similar research for one sponsor and something called the "Higher Education Policy Institute", (registered charity number 1099645) named to confuse by the look of it. They ran a dinner event with the title<i> "challenger institutions: useful competition or unhelpful disruption?"</i> and invited a minister or MP along. So they are probably the same bunch as the other sponsor, Kaplan, which is a crammer that wants to be called a University and gets a fiscal subsidy for the PR by calling it a charity.<br />
<br />
London Economics' account of jobs created does not mention jobs lost as a result of so many students studying bad courses in crowded places. London Economics' estimate might make sense at Coleraine in Northern Ireland, or the West Highlands, or in County Durham. Areas where there are empty bedsits, and if this isn't always true, then the less measurable claims of benefit make-up. Maybe students add variety and connections and bring skills, or maybe they make businesses viable that would otherwise not be viable, such as cheap clubs and venues that local people can also use. Unfortunately I think that most areas are more crowded than this.<br />
<br />
The most crowded area is London if you measure by property prices.<br />
<br />
Universities UK's report from Oxford Economics quotes this about London:<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> £1327m </span> off-campus expenditure<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> £2.714bn </span> export earnings.<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 8,855 </span> jobs created by spending (it doesn't say on or off campus)<br />
<br />
There are no notes and queries attached, which is a worry. <br />
<br />
A politician or a civil servant could simply take these figures as given. Just as a lot take the cliches as given - <i>"world class"</i>, for example. Manchester University economics students have noted the lack of critical thinking allowed on one of the very courses that attracts a lot of international students and supplies graduates to the civil service or parliament.<br />
<br />
I doubt any of these figures helps.<br />
<br />
Off campus expenditure would be spent by other people in London who would be allowed-in if international students were not there. The people priced-out, who commute-in. They would also be less tired and more enterprising, maybe talking to children more or sleeping or doing a more fun job with lower prospects or earnings or hanging around clubs and bars and venues. People who do whatever common people do.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Fiscal benefit of VAT and other taxes on the supply chain for off-campus spending</span></h4>
This requires modelling that is not easy for most of us to challenge although I would welcome a chance if there's any need for specific feedback, or if anyone with more up-do-date skills wants to do it with me.<br />
<a href="http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2017/the-economic-impact-of-universities.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2017/the-economic-impact-of-universities.pdf</a><br />
... is the report commissioned by a lobby group<br />
... <a href="http://bit.ly/reportmethods">http://bit.ly/reportmethods</a> is the part that quotes their reporting methods <br />
<b><span style="color: #0b5394;">including student loan arrangements?</span></b><br />
(I don't know any relevant evidence to send to the migration advisory committee.<br />
<br />
There could be a chance for UK students to build their student loan into the state national insurance scheme, so that, if they have a high income throughout their lives, maybe they get a state pension years later than someone who has worked in mining from the age of 16 for example.<br />
It is frustrating that UK government cannot afford student grants to people in the UK, but does grant them to people in China or India as part of a scholarship scheme, and does still grant research work to universities in large amounts)</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Do migrant students help support employment in educational institutions?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Crowding can be mentioned under each heading, </span></h4>
...such as long commutes or high local housing costs.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">How much money do migrant students spend in the national, regional and local economy and what is the impact of this?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Crowding can be mentioned under each heading. </span></h4>
Housing spending will crowd-out other potential users of the land, or the specific floor space if students rent privately. <br />
Transport spending will raise the congestion charge, or crowd–out other users of public transport </blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">How do migrant students affect the educational opportunities available to UK students?</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">To what extent does the demand from migrant students for UK education dictate the supply of that education provision and the impact of this on UK students?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I take these together, under Quantity, where I state that I'm confused, and Quality, where I state some examples that come-around again other other questions.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #45818e;">Quantity.</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
A couple of reports note international demand for courses otherwise harder to run.</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
So far as the quantity of teaching goes, I think the reports make sense, but they have not said why these courses lack a critical mass of home students - maybe because of faults in schools or bad choices made by prospective students, or lack of wealth among home students. </div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><b>Quantity of numerate home applicants - overlapping with points about quality</b></span></h4>
If UK schools don't provide numerate applicants for courses, there is a work-around:<br />
<i>"Abandoning Economics because of an inadequate supply of numerate applicants ignores the availability of first-year modules to improve students’ mathematical skills, something which universities are expected to do much more now"</i> - <i><a href="http://www.keeleucu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/Alternative-Plan.pdf">A Management School for Keele</a>, 2009, Keele University and College Union, p38</i><br />
<br />
Better still, there could also be ways of teaching a technical course with mathematics taught in context, as needed, to solve real problems, rather than taught for its own dry sake in the first two years of the course, including maths that doesn't get used.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Puzzlement</span></h4>
<br />
The reports suggest that post-graduate study is strategically important. But. How could home students possibly afford it? Why aren't their first degrees sufficient to teach them to study by themselves without further help? What does it mean for their job prospects when applicants from wealthy backgrounds have two degrees and they only have one? Does a first degree get dumbed-down and un-critical in a college where so many students are postgraduates? Do the conventional wisdoms about how the world works get influenced by the wealthy. international backgrounds of so many students? How does an employer distinguish between a rich but useless person with two degrees and poor useful person with one degree? Who empties the bins while so many young fit people are on courses?<br />
<br />
Lobby reports don't clarify, despite repeating their point often.<br />
<blockquote>
<br />
<i>"Graduates entering employment predominantly move into management, banking and finance and the civil service."</i>, according to University College London economics department, and I find that rather frightening when I think of the problems of economics teaching in the UK.<br />
<br />
I simply quote some paragraphs, to show the arguments I mean, before moving-on to <br />
<br />
<i>A further benefit for UK HEIs from the presence of international students has been cited as their role in achieving critical mass for teaching on some courses, including some which may have declined in popularity with home students. In some STEM subjects especially, the proportion of international students may be relatively high in some institutions, and without the presence of those students the course would become unsustainable, thereby reducing the range of courses available to UK students at certain institutions. The make-up of some course groups reported by the alumni supported this view. Any such reductions of course availability could have potential long-term impact on the UK stock of strategic skills.</i><br />
<i>These issues also arise in relation to postgraduate research study. </i><br />
<i>- BIS (2013)<u> The wider benefits of international higher education in the UK</u></i><br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-higher-education-in-the-uk-wider-benefits" rel="nofollow"><i>https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-higher-education-in-the-uk-wider-benefits</i></a><br />
<br />
The same point is made for Universities UK by Oxford Economics several times in different parts of their report<br />
<i>International student fee income accounted for 13% of sector income in 2013–14, and demand from international students can support the provision of certain strategically- important subjects in the UK (eg engineering, technology and computer science, particularly at postgraduate level where around half of all students are from outside the EU).</i><br />
<i>Universities UK (2014) International Students in Higher Education</i><br />
<a href="http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2014/international-students-in-higher-education.pdf" rel="nofollow"><i>http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2014/international-students-in-higher-education.pdf</i></a></blockquote>
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Quality: I said this under "impact" but it could just a well go here,</span></h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Migrant fees are about double home fees if non-EU, so have double the impact.</span></h4>
</li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Migrants are worse at choosing courses, so the worst course makes the most money.</span></h4>
</li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Any other group of students who are easily-led or easily mis-led have the same bad effect. Everybody looses including the student, home students sitting alongside, anyone who would benefit from better educated students, or another educational provider looking for students. <br />
<br />
Take one example. Economics students are often not trained in how to fund the welfare state. That syllabus is banished to an obscure degree subject called Public Administration. So, if you ask an MP about funding the NHS, they don't know what to say. The Prime Minister was caught with the question and said <i>"people are getting older"</i>, and I doubt any of the last few prime ministers could have answered any better.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4>
<span style="color: #0b5394;">There is a table of data showing economics course feedback scores for the colleges with most international students, showing that most have the worst student feedback.</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a></span> <span style="font-weight: normal;">(</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="http://archive.is/JWMpT" rel="nofollow">26/1/18</a> )</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="color: #0b5394;"><br />
International students choose by college rather than by course</span></b><br />
<br />
A student might decide to study economics, and then choose a college by things like a web site that says "world class", "foremost", "vibrant buzz", rather than checking what kind of syllabus the college teaches and how satisfied previous students were. Politicians seem to make the same mistake in allowing business deals with these colleges and quoting their lobbyists word for word.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
One graduate, Pok Wong, is taking Anglia Ruskin University to court over its false claims of graduate employment prospects, and the Advertising Standards Authority has required six universities to change their prospectuses, according to https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/student-anglia-ruskin-university-mickey-mouse-degree-pok-wong-tuition-fees-a8250441.html </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The colleges and The British Council advertise by college rather than by course. And international students say that they choose by college rather than by course. The Survey of Graduating International Students found that<i> "recognition of UK qualifications, the university reputation and the language"</i> were important. On the other hand, there was no question about the course itself, so a different survey might get a different result. <br />
<a href="http://www.cpc.ac.uk/docs/2017_SoGIS_Technical_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cpc.ac.uk/docs/2017_SoGIS_Technical_Report.pdf </a><br />
<br />
I guess that home student applicants choose by college rather than course as well, but are getting more sophisticated with help from Unistats and the spin-off private sector sites, and other students' own rueful feedback scores on courses like LSE Economics. In a way, students are getting a vote about how their courses are going to be run. Meanwhile, more and more institutions are getting degree-awarding powers. The parental role of institutions in trying to provide courses that applicants should apply-for is replaced by a market force to provide what the student does apply-for, and maybe regrets later. Like a very boring course in how to be an astronaut, which doesn't lead to an astronaut job at the end because it doesn't teach how to make a space ship. There are lots of courses like that. Fashion design for example.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #0b5394;">Engineering or Computer Science courses</span></b><br />
<br />
I wrote a blog post called "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html" title="the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates in 2014">star courses</a>" about the courses with the worst student feedback and the least related employment for graduates. One such was a group of Portsmouth University graduates in Petroleum Engineering, if I remember right, who did not have the resources to drill for oil once they had left the university at the age of 22 with no savings. I don't know of any survey which says why so many Portsmouth Petroleum graduates have poor job prospects, but guess there's a common theme in most of them that the scale of operation, and the technical tools, make it hard to apply the skills except by getting one of the rare jobs on an oil rig at the other end of the UK.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, there are shortage occupations for the more technical product designers. So there is a problem to be un-picked about how some engineering courses are popular because they help get a job, some are unpopular in hindsight because they don't get a job, and what can be done. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
If I could find the lobby quote, I think it would say that international students help "particularly at post graduate level" and I have to ask: why can't they study at home without paying fees to a college? Maybe they loose more than most.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><b><br />
Some examples of courses which get a lot of international students and a lot of bad student feedback.</b></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"> Leeds College of Health, circa 1996.</span></h4>
I was myself on a distance learning course, advertised as part of Leeds University but in fact run by Leeds College of Health, a mental health training organisation which was unable to provide any contact at all with tutors, and lost its last one, I think while I was on the course. I think it collapsed at that point. (A successor organisation exists for addiction studies and it, too, has closed to new students "following a review" - http://www.lau.org.uk/training/courses.htm I find it un-nerving that Leeds University still allows its name to be used by some related organisation )<br />
<br />
What I noticed was that most of the distance learning students were from Pakistan, and another large proportion were paid-for by a health trust in Yorkshire. I suspect that these two groups of students were less likely to complain, and less likely to know what to expect, than a self-funded student. I suspect that's why the course survived as long as it did and my chances of study were reduced instead of increased, because someone could have set-up a proper college and I could have found it if Leeds College of Health had never existed. And so the demand from those migrant students and employer-funded students reduced the supply of education to me, with a bad impact on how well I did my job and on my job prospects. Current unistats data would single-out the course and force closure a little sooner than in 2002. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"> Manchester University Economics degree, quoted in 2013</span></h4>
<a href="http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Economics-Education-and-Unlearning.pdf">http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Economics-Education-and-Unlearning.pdf</a><br />
<i>100% of marks awarded by multiple choice exam for both Principles modules in first year.</i><br />
<i>UK Micro and Macro have 90% awarded by multiple choice exams and the other 10% is an essay. However, this essay is only 1,000 words long and students get 100% for handing it in on time. This means that many students don’t widely research the topic or fully engage with the material.</i><br />
<i>Micro and Macro Principles are a delivery of neoclassical theory and students are expected to learn the theory by rote. </i><br />
<i>There is no mention of what school of thought is being taught or that there are any other schools of thought. It is presented as facts about the world which leads to the possibility of students believing that these ideas represent indisputable truths </i><br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #0b5394;">The largest recruiter of overseas students - UCL - now claims to have improved its syllabus:</span></b><br />
<a href="http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0917/180917-core-economics-teaching" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0917/180917-core-economics-teaching</a><br />
The news has not reached their page on the complete university guide for 2018 admission<br />
<a href="https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/details/16439574" rel="nofollow">https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/details/16439574</a>.<br />
<br />
If graduates are produced who don't look things up or think things through, and haven't quite got the right skills for self-employment, there must be an effect on the demand for graduates. One measure of this, I think, is the number of people who do post-graduate courses that I know very little about.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Example of bad quality offered to international students: <br />
University of the Arts London College of Fashion Footwear degree</span></h4>
Last I heard, Clarks asks students to design some prototype uppers each year, but not the soles because those require engineering which the college doesn't teach. Meanwhile, one of the shortage occupations is "product development engineer; product design engineer" under an engineering heading. <br />
<br />
Anecdotal examples that human rights and democracy are not much mentioned by<br />
Lobbying of mayors such as Khan: <i>" It's great that so many people want to come to London to study fashion"</i>. I disagree, but the effect of un-democratic lobbying is greater, I think, than the democratic pressure to make london a less crowded place to live,</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What is the impact of migrant students on the demand for</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">⦁ housing provision</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">⦁ transport (particularly local transport)</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">⦁ health provision</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><br />
Crowding is the main point here. </span></h4>
The Planning Act prevents building to meet demand; Britain is overcrowded in most places. British manufacturing shrank more than manufacturing in similar countries, I think, during a period of high exchange rates from 1979-2009. That left the jobs disproportionately in the areas where service industries are common, rather than in Belfast or Tyneside <br />
<br />
So there is a lot of overcrowding in London, quite a lot in most areas, and just a few tiny bits like Coleraine or West Highlands where migrants are a help.<br />
<br />
Extra crowding, I believe, can only add to fiscal costs, even without thinking of data.<br />
If taxes have to pay for roads, for example, then they might as well pay for rails, and so there is a fiscal cost to peoples' long commutes to London. There is the fiscal cost of running transport very near to full capacity, with the extra traffic monitoring work that has to be done, and the cost to travelers of the congestion charge. There are fiscal costs of a less efficient workforce, more stressed and tired because of long commutes.<br />
The fiscal costs of housing rise with over-crowding too I think. There is the fiscal cost of housing benefit has to rise with rent. Emergency housing schemes like council homeless persons units have to make extra use of hostels and B&Bs to house homeless people because more suitable space is not available, and increased rough-sleeping because people who are willing and able to use a room or a hostel space on housing benefit are not able to find one.<br />
<br />
The fiscal costs of running public services have to be higher in a crowded area. The market price for a care assistant from an agency is likely to be higher in London. People on formal public sector pay scales are likely to be on London Weighting or Inner London Weighting. <br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><br />
</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Transport specifically: stating the obvious</span></h4>
<br />
GLA economics publishes an estimate of the numbers of people who commute between regions, mainly in-bound, mainly long-distance, mainly to London. It is a big estimate.<br />
<br />
GLA also publishes numbers of London international students.<br />
<br />
Both figures have the same number of noughts after them; they are the same order of magnitude. So if there were no international students in London next year, and no home students filled their places, there would be a lot less commuting.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Housing specifically: stating the obvious</span></h4>
<br />
a general point based on easily-available data from <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033</a>, which maps UK housing costs.<br />
<br />
One bed flats in Camden range from £1,457 to £1,625 mid-market to £1,842 for more expensive Westminster and Kensington are slightly more expensive. Generally, the cluster of institutions that attract overseas students have their central buildings in Camden and central London.<br />
<br />
The example I looked at - Footwear design at London College of Fashion - has a library and teaching space above British Home Stores in Oxford Street, and uses a former school at Golden Lane in Islington. One of their halls of residence - Cordwainers Court in Shoreditch.- sounds as though it is one of the fixed assets sponsored by past generations to help UK shoemakers study.<br />
<i><br />
</i> <i> "Standard rooms (shared bathroom) are £154 per week for 42-week tenancies, (£6,468 in total) and £150 per week for 50-week tenancies (£7,500). These rooms are approximately 12 m2"</i><br />
<br />
I don't think economists need to add-up all the rent paid by students and declare it a good thing, arguing that it trickles-around the rest of the economy.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">A general point about crowding-out by study as well as tourism and arts</span></h4>
<br />
I think that the opportunity cost of this space being used in such an overcrowded part of London is that other rental is crowded-out, just as tourist hotels crowd-out other people from London, or the Royal Opera crowds-out people from London with the bad effects of homelessness, high housing costs, long commutes, and a reduction in variety of London services which is hard to explain economically, but seems associated with high rents. I don't think this would matter if the students<br />
⦁ enjoyed their courses,<br />
⦁ got value for money by being stretched, stimulated, interested, career qualified etc<br />
⦁ benefit the rest of us as much as anyone else who might end-up in central London.<br />
The evidence I can see points the other way on each point.<br />
<br />
The London College of Fashion charge for overseas students is £17,500 a year, which is a lot for a course that doesn't teach you to run a shoe factory, learned alongside UK students paying £9,000.<br />
<br />
In contrast, there are two shortage occupations on the home office list - <b>"2126 ... product development engineer, product design engineer"</b> which are in demand as well as <b>"2219.... prosthetist"</b>. These similar skills are clearly not much taught at London College of Fashion, or hard to practice after graduating with the skills taught, or they would not be shortage occupations.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What impacts have migrant students had on changes to tourism and numbers of visitors to the UK?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Crowding needs a mention under every heading.</span></h4>
</div>
There is no room on the Piccadilly Line for more tourists at rush hour.<br />
Most areas of the UK are overcrowded and short of housing, and migrant students study in the most overcrowded areas with the least housing, so if they increase tourism, it might well be in the areas that have too much tourism like London.<br />
<br />
Reports including <i>The Value of Fashion</i> by Oxford Economics list extra visitors to London prompted by London Fashion Week. Each extra visitor causes more crowding on the tube.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What role do migrant students play in extending UK soft power and influence abroad?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Long after the close of the call for evidence, I read how nasty and expensive the visa application process has been: <a href="https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-pernicious-politics-of-immigration.html">https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-pernicious-politics-of-immigration.html</a> <br />
<br />
Combine that with the extortionate fees charged to non-EU students, and you are likely to disgruntle some of the applicants. The worst example is applicants who got a place at London Metropolitan University, took part of the course after paying high fees, and were then given 60 days' notice to leave and a "task force", whatever that is. I doubt any of these students crop-up in research about graduates' warm feelings towards the UK because they are not easily tracable via facebook links provided by an alumni office - one of the methods used to research the role migrant students play in extending UK soft power and influence abroad. Nor do any or the people who apply for a visa and don't get one, but think they are over-charged or badly treated. Or people who drop-out. <br />
<br />
The question could be re-framed: how can UK government services be fairer and nicer to people abroad? How can our government not offend people for the wrong reasons?<br />
<br />
Getting back to Department for Business research, I found the results unclear.<br />
<br />
The Department for Business research asks about their interest in <i>"british goods"</i> and <i>"british brands"</i> interchangeably. <br />
<br />
Goods made in Britain are good for the economy, helping money circulate and providing a wider range of UK jobs to job applicants who want a wider range of jobs. <br />
<br />
British brands may not even be owned in Britain and are unlikely to be made in the UK. <br />
<br />
The research found no great take-up of either goods or brands by graduates, but the interchangeable use of both words suggests the problem: international students are not keen on a society in which taxes are earned to pay for public services.<br />
<br />
I think there is potential for greater benefits among the fifteen categories listed. If every migrant student had to understand the principal of national insurance and similar schemes, the faults of countries without such schemes, and the difficult of trading between the two kinds of country, then I think more of the worlds' countries would reduce poverty sooner and fewer would compete unfairly with the UK.<br />
<br />
There are fifteen categories of soft power listed on one report, without much evidence available for success or failure in any of the fifteen categories, so to avoid rambling I say nothing more.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">If migrant students take paid employment while they are studying, what types of work do they do?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
?</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What are the broader labour market impacts of students transferring from Tier 4 to Tier 2 [student visa to ex-student visa with rights to apply for skilled work related to the course] including</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">- on net migration and</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
? </div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">- on shortage occupations?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Shortage Occupations: <br />
need for research on why they are unpleasant jobs, and spending on solutions already known</span></h4>
I think each shortage occupation deserves research on why it is such an unpleasant job that not enough people want to do it for long enough, or to train to do it, even when the pay is high and job agencies have the vacancy ready to fill. Not quite an answer to this consultation, but a point worth making. In some cases, like emergency medicine, I think the answer is well-known. A lack of social care, mental health services, and hospital capacity make the job frustrating and stressful. The answer is clearly to spend less on another shortage occupation - classical dancers and choreographers - and more on social care or mental health services.<br />
<br />
There is clearly a need for NHS managers to know more about why nursing is an unpleasant job, I am told by a nurse. She says the clinical nurse specialist job is turned into a production-line job with one diagnosis and one small role and no chance to use experience and training. I don't know what more junior nurses on shift work in wards think, but it is worth asking. <br />
<br />
I used to do social work social work jobs and found them, the line managers, and the offices a little bit like the ones described in the Victoria Climbie Enquiry.<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/victoria-climbi_-inquiry">https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/victoria-climbi_-inquiry</a><br />
It strikes me that if there is some way for a course to test whether a social worker is intelligent and honest, that should be the only sort of course to justify a student visa. <br />
<br />
I think social work is an unusual job in that the people who most think they can do it are the least good at it. So the current system by which rather desperate marginal universities will give anyone a chance is not a good system; it gives a false confidence and career advantage to the least able. A bit like the masters degrees in public administration done by more senior social workers who want to run departments.<br />
<br />
I knew a social worker on a postgraduate course at Kingston Uni who was shocked by the other people on the course, and thought that they were just interested in the job for the power. Maybe they were the same people who cropped-up a year or two later at the Victoria Climbie Enquiry, with their effect of making the job unattractive to saner applicants.<br />
<br />
Suppose there is a country where it is more often hard to judge whether student visa applicants could become social workers with these qualities...<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>polite in UK terms, not giving direct instructions to the client </li>
<li>respect the idea of an insurance like service pre-paid by the client through taxes, </li>
<li>help where possible instead of just assessing, for example in looking up benefits rules or fitting a stair rail<br />
<br />
and are<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>intelligent, </li>
<li>honest, </li>
<li>able to look things up with a history of doing it, able to do it at an interview </li>
<li>able to think-through messy problems and simplify what if anything can be done. </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I wrote "suppose", but if there is a country where student visa applicants are harder to judge, where a college might get an applicant who is just plain barmy, then visas should not be allocated in that country, even if some applicants are perfectly good. Until someone can devise some extra special tests to allow the sensible ones to get a visa.<br />
<br />
Ideally, social work employers would know how to select job candidates. That wasn't the case at Harringay Social Services when they hired Carole Baptiste. If the Migration Advisory Committee can find out where <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/jan/15/childprotection1">Carole Baptiste</a> or other employees of Haringay Social Services got their qualifications, I think that would be a good piece of work and help to prevent bad social work courses from running in future - I write with sympathy for the social worker at the bottom of the management hierachy, on whom everything was first blamed, who got no commitment from any of her bosses to give opinions or help or even run an office or write a sensible job contract.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Whether, and to what extent, migrant students enter the labour market, when they graduate and what types of post-study work do they do?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
?</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">In addition, the MAC would like to receive evidence about what stakeholders think would happen in the event of there no longer being a demand from migrant students for a UK education.</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The economy...<br />
<br />
<br />
Other exports would have to increase</span></h4>
<br />
The effect would be the same as an end to any other export, such as oil or financial services.<br />
<br />
The pound would fall until some some other export - something else - became more competitive and made-up, which would quite likely be goods rather than services because easily traded. Import substitution would work the same way. For example, I have just bought a cheap car tyre which was probably from Asia. If the pound falls a lot lower, I might be offered a UK-made re-tread next time.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Government can make exports easier</span></h4>
<br />
There is no list of “something else”; there is no directory of UK manufacturers taken from income tax & VAT data. Manufactures are at a disadvantage compared to educators, who's degree courses are all neatly arranged online. Such lists can't be compiled for manufacturers from tax data, because the Revenue and Customs Act restricts use of tax data for other purposes. Government can make exports easier by changing the law and helping directories of UK manufacturers get the most complete possible data. At the moment it's easier to log-on to Alibaba and find a footwear company in China than it is to find one in the UK, which will probably be very lean, keep a low profile, and stick to some niche market.<br />
<br />
I think an advantage to manufacturing exports over service exports is that they tend to export from regions that have lower property prices, shorter commutes, no congestion zones, and less crowded public transport. Whether people enjoy manufacturing jobs is another question - it depends on the person and the job - but other advantages are clear.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>The effect on the local economy of any crowded part of the UK, such as London, would be to reduce crowding. </li>
<li>And the effect on remaining students would be increased integration </li>
</ul>
.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The effect on students:<br />
UK students might integrate with each other more</span></h4>
<br />
English schools are not designed to integrate different types of English pupil. An increasing number are faith schools. A proportion are private, and a higher proportion of university students are privately educated. The private schools have a contingent of pupils from overseas. Anecdotally, the schools that retain a little capacity for boarding find it filled mainly with pupils from Asia. My old boarding school, Wellington College, now has a branch in China. So an ex boarder from Wellington like myself at the age of 18 would know more about wealthier Chinese people than people in the council school down the road. I expect that there is some self-censorship among people at Wellington about human rights abuses in China, the lack of democracy there, and the difficulty of a country with no welfare state trying to trade with a country that has one. That last point might not even be stated, and if I went from Wellington to a college like University of the Arts with its big Chinese student population, the pattern would be repeated. If I went on to become Chancellor of the Exchequer I might sign trade deals and encourage ownership of nuclear power stations and airports that don't seem to be in the interest of the UK.<br />
<br />
When I was 19, the differences between people at college were to do with class, region, skills, and different kinds of shared general knowledge. People had done quite well at ignoring religion in order to make it go away. Now, there is increasing segregation on religious grounds that also happen to be racial but also show in the wearing of veils, the avoidance of alcohol, and I suspect sexism, homophobia and mis-treatment of animals. there's also a resurgence in Catholic faith schools. I hope that students at UK universities find-out more about segregated groups just as previous generations found out about people from different classes, and I guess this is more likely if there are more people from the UK in each university.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Future MPs might learn a little more about people in the UK</span></h4>
<br />
I am constantly surprised by the way MPs seem to know very little about the country where they stand for parliament, assuming that local people are mainly interested in the issues around them (Susan Kramer MP at a public meeting), or that they prefer points to be expressed as emotions rather than arguments (David Lammy MP on Genfell), or that ordinary people cannot understand economic arguments. As a result, populists are left to make the popular arguments. If UK school children and students were better integrated, I think that would help the ones who become MPs be better MPs.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="color: #0b5394;"><b>An example is TTIP free trade agreement</b></span></span> that Hilary Clinton was in favour of, as was Cameron, without thinking it worth debating or important. The presumption was that ordinary people don't need to be told what graduates and post-graduates have worked-out for them. A big indicator of voting for Trump was being a non-graduate. A big election issue was that he's interested in industry, and spots any unfairness of trade with China.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><b>An example is Brexit</b></span>. A big indicator of voting Brexit was being a non-graduate. Graduate MPs seemed to have trouble catching-up with the issues of migration between very different countries, and of the cost of belonging to the EU organisation. So populists made the arguments instead.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><b>An example is Ethical Fashion Forum, Creative Connexions, Making it Ethically in China, and the cluster of related activity</b></span>. The cluster was funded in secret, with Ethical Fashion Forum miraculously getting a chance to exhibit at The Crafts Council and the V&A with help from the British Council as well as getting funded by Business Link to give lectures on how to run a business. Officials met in ministries and worked-out with Futerra Communications how to set-up something that looked like "social proof", as Futerra put it, rather than a project by Hilary Benn MP at the Department for International Development and then Defra. The presumption, again, is that non-graduates wouldn't understand the need to close UK manufacturing.<br />
<br />
(Something similar is likely to happen again: Nike have a "nothing like a Londoner" ad campaign, which suggests that their sponsored department at London College of Fashion has cooked something up with the Greater London Authority.)<br />
<br />
I think that if future MPs mixed more with other UK students at university, they might be less surprised and surprising.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Effect on London and crowded areas: increased diversity</span></h4>
<i><br />
"International students bring many benefits to the UK, which have been well articulated in recent years: they bring diversity to campus life and enhance the student experience for ‘home’ students" - Oxford Economics for Universities UK (2014) International Students and Higher Education</i><br />
<br />
I don't know where to find evidence for increased uniformity in expensive, gentrified areas like London. A reduction in music clubs, gay bars, odd ethnic restaurants, and independent businesses. A reduction in things that people can only do if they pay low rent. A tendency of councils and development agencies to try and gentrify deliberately in underhand ways. I think the evidence for this is often anecdotal; I don't know where to look for something quantitative.<br />
<br />
If a lot of London colleges closed, I am sure that would slow the increase in London living costs and I hope that would be good for diversity.<br />
<br /></blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">impact of migrant students depending on the institution and/or subject being studied –</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">do different subjects and different institutions generate different impacts?</span></h3>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Suppose there were no more non-EU international students next year.</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
<br />
I think that would be a relief in overcrowded cities like London, but a worry to institutions with most non-EU students like the LSE, London College of Fashion, and their lobbyists. <br />
<br />
There would be an immediate drop in income from non-EU students' higher fees, forcing a reduction in back-office and facilities spending on things like lobbying politicians, applying for research grants less likely to be received, paying lawyers to fend-off complainants, vice chancellors' salaries, as well as more obvious facilities. The institutions claiming to be most impoverished would find a lot of money for lobbying: meetings, marches, letters to <i>The Times</i>, speeches in Parliament, but real people wouldn't notice any difference. Colleges that take a lot of home students have, a lot of them, already shrunk a lot since trying to charge £9,000+ fees, so the process is nothing new. <br />
<br />
There would be immediate cuts in provision of courses which are not much applied-for by UK students, like business studies in central London, and most of the courses would not be missed. Other courses would have to compete for less qualified and more picky home students, for example by responding to student feedback to get better Unistats results. Only 37% of LSE economics students think the college takes any notice of student feedback at the moment. London College of Fashion doesn't offer any workshop space to use by the hour or cheap practical training for selling shoes.<br />
<br />
I think that courses in expensive areas which get bad student feedback would close more than ones in cheaper areas with good student feedback, so the likes of Coventry University would continue to grow while LSE might shrink. Home students wanting to study in central London would have more choice because of lower entry requirements. At the moment, you have to study rather intensely as a teenager to get the A-level results for a place at LSE, and it would be good if that changed.</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Benefits to Londoners of less competition for central government grants</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">A report on the London Development Agency began by saying how many billions of pounds it had spent over several years, but that worklessness remained a problem in London. The same can be said of education funding. The cuckoo organisations claim large amounts of money from one arm of government or another - such as the Higher Education Funding Council - but there is no adult education course to help londoners sell their stuff on a Wordpress site with options to try Magento Prestashop or Drupal. There is huge expenditure by the Greater London Authority and the Department for Business on London Fashion Week, but few courses for Londoners who want to learn how to set-up a clothes factory or a shoe factory, and, if they did, some of the factory space was knocked down for the Olympics. It would be good if a new generation of fashion and footwear colleges worked by supplying factory space and training any users who wanted to be trained.<br />
<br />
If the large lobbying cuckoo-like organisations had less money to bid for more grants and to lobby, I think there might be more money for other things. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><br />
Some examples could be headed</span><span style="color: #0b5394;"><i> "closing this course would increase happiness all-round and raise more tax at the same time"</i>.</span></h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">This expands on examples made above under other questions, headed "quality"</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">How do migrant students affect the educational opportunities available to UK students?</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">To what extent does the demand from migrant students for UK education dictate the supply of that education provision and the impact of this on UK students?</span></div>
I answered <span style="color: #0b5394;">with example paragraphs about Leeds College of Health trading as Leeds University, Manchester University Economics Degree, and London College of Fashion<span style="color: #0b5394;">, which comes-up under several headings.</span></span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"> Fiscal cost of damage done by badly educated scholars: a strange example </span></h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
One graduate obtained funding from the Department for International Development, that also co-operated very closely with London College of Fashion so that it was difficult to see where her project, called Ethical Fashion Forum, began and where London College of Fashion ended.<br />
<br />
The graduate claimed to be a dress importer with a business called "Juste", and author of a book called "Can Fashion be Fair?", as well as an award winning architect. On a closer look, it turns-out that "Juste" was a college project that never traded, run as evidence to be awarded a taught masters degree in international development by Oxford Brooks University, close to Oxfam's offices, often studied by ex-Oxfam volunteers. I don't know why Brooks Uni awarded a masters degree for a fake dress import business, to someone without a first degree in architecture or anything else, but imagine it was to please a funder; I imagine that international development students are funded by something like Chevening scholarships. So the idea of British "soft power" meant a particular sort of British interest represented by a stooge.<br />
<br />
Certainly the student who went-on to found Ethical Fashion Forum as a kind of front for UK government interests, as did EU-funded online course materials by London College of Fashion, which quoted her as a "case study", alongside Pants to Poverty, who shared a public-subsidised office at Rich Mix on Shoreditch.<br />
<br />
I said you don't have to think critically to get the grant. If you don't believe me, I'll send you some qutoes from the masters degree thesis at Oxford Brooks. She claims that people in the UK made their own clothes until international trade allowed them to enjoy fashion. She mixes-up the East India Company with the British Empire, but not with Nike. She backs-up her opinion with a quote that looks fake, on a web site that looks as though it never existed, from an academic who generally states different views. One thing that's clear in her opinions is that she is opposed to UK garment production and she repeats the point on her Ethical Fashion Forum site, using a series of rhetorical tricks.<br />
<span class="caps"></span><span class="caps"></span><br />
This particular student has cost millions of pounds in lost revenue from the companies that she has helped close in the UK, by diverting attention from UK manufacturers. <br />
<br />
For example, while Pants to Poverty, who shared her office, promoted themselves as "ethical", Manchester Hosiery that made T shirts and underwear in the UK went bust, was bought out of receivership, and went bust again due to lack of interest from customers. It made T shirts and underwear on high-tec machines that wove them to shape from yarn and could produce more cheaply than T shirts with more sewn seams in them. <br />
<br />
The same Ethical Fashion Forum team promoted a seminar of about 50 clothes buyers headed "buying from co-operatives". They didn't mention UK co-operatives.Within a month or two, Equity Shoes of Leicester had gone bust and was closed by the receiver because of lack of interest in UK-made shoes. Equity Shoes was a 100 year-old worker co-operative in a high unemployment area. <br />
<br />
And then there was the seminar "Making it Ethically in China", funded by the taxpayer through the higher education funding council, that promoted Chinese production with speakers including a fur-dress importer, a Nike consultant and Terra Plana. It was held within a mile of JJ Blackledge, a cheap British PVC wallet manufacturer, that went bust the same week. Just a few orders might have encouraged them to keep going.<br />
<br />
I do not know how to estimate loss to the UK economy caused by this covert operation of Dfid, British Council, and scholarships for students who agree with them. I understand that when companies call in receivers, there is usually a statement of reasons why the company failed. A study of these reports, and interviews with former directors, might show that a little encouragement, by universities and government, of firms that pay UK taxes and reasons to buy from them, would go a long way in keeping more of them open and make a positive difference to tax revenue while reducing the costs of benefits and services to stressed people or deprived people.<br />
<br />
To save you clicking on the link, I add the email which I got inviting me, as someone in the footwear trade, to the event.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<i>Own-it Event:<br />
Making it ethically in China -<br />
A practical guide for fashion and textile designers</i></h4>
<i>Sourcing materials or manufacturing in China should be considered seriously if you want to compete in a global market and keep production cost low. Many do not think that China should be your first port of call if you have decided to build your brand on a sustainable business model in which worker's rights are recognised, the materials used are environmentally friendly and your carbon footprint is as small as possible. However, China has started to acknowledge the need for sustainable business practices in the production of textiles and clothing, and has set up the Sustainable Fashion Business Consortium in Hong Kong in 2008 to promote just that.</i><br />
<i>Own-it, Ethical Fashion Forum and Creative Connexions have invited a panel of experts to discuss the current situation in China, how designers can source manufacturers and material that meets their ethical standards and how they can monitor compliance. A lawyer will speak about important clauses in manufacturing or licensing contracts concerning IP rights and confidentiality, as well as what to do when you are faced with counterfeits that are cheap, unethically sourced and damage your good name.</i><br />
<i> Date: 28.10.09 Time: 6-8pm followed by drinks and networking until 9pm</i><br />
<i> Location: Asia House, 63 New Cavendish Street, London W1G 7LP</i><br />
<b><i>Cost: Free (paid for by taxpayers and paid for again by loss of tax after UK factories close as a result of this)</i></b></blockquote>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="color: red;">Fiscal cost of colleges which actively damage the UK economy, sustained by fees from international students and UK Higher Education Funding Council grants.</span></span> </h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">The international student industry has a cuckoo-like ability to claim grants from UK taxpayers which I think should mainly be meant for the UK population.</span></h4>
<br />
My example is London College of Fashion, working with School of Oriental and African Studies, and Kings College, both parts of University of London. It adds a couple of its own off-shoots to the list as well: Centre for Fashion Enterprise and London Business School. It is hard to know the boundaries of this cluster of institutions.<br />
<br />
It won a bid for 80% of the Higher Education Innovation Fund promoted help by universities to business until 2005, when it was used for a different purpose, which was to put UK-based designers or anyone from the UK in touch with Chinese manufacturers.<br />
<i><br />
</i> <i> "The Creative Connexions project (originally called "Creative Capital-World City") received £5 million of funding from HEFCE via the third round of the Higher Education Innovation Fund bidding process ("HEIF 3"). This funding was allocated to the University of Arts in London which was the lead higher education in the project bid. This represented just under 80% of the total project budget which was £6.275 million. "</i><br />
<br />
I think the covert use of this tax money is so opposite to the overt, and so opposite to the interests of UK taxpayers, that I think something special should be done.<br />
<br />
⦁ The institutions should not be awarded any specialised grants for higher education for the life of this government and a suggested fifteen years total; they should receive only the standard higher education funding per head that any other college gets. <br />
⦁ The names of officials & ministers who signed for the payments should be published, and similar funding bids and grants likewise.<br />
⦁ The process should be published, step-by-step, date-by-date, that led to the grant.<br />
<br />
Another example is the cost of promoting UK colleges overseas by civil servants at the Department for Business and the British Council, which I don't think benefits UK students or taxpayers. When these colleges are in over-crowded parts of the UK, I think the spending is directly opposite to the interests of UK taxpayers. It is as bad as spending on the Olympics, and it is more like corruption than proper government spending.<br />
A third example is a pretend fashion industry, centered on London Fashion Week and a couple of feed-in fashion shows, which is good at getting column inches but not so good at promoting UK manufacturers. It is as much to do with manufacturing and UK jobs as a Eurovision song is to do with music you would want to hear or play. I believe that London Fashion Week exists in competition with UK manufacturers, particularly for column inches of media coverage.<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Footwear, London College of Fashion, part of University of the Arts</span></h4>
<br />
I was a stake-holder in the UK footwear industry, selling dozens of pairs every day or two with a commitment to promote UK manufacturing. Unfortunately, bad health got in the way. I suffered very slight encephelopathy or bad concentration after an accident. You can probably tell by my rambling style of writing. But I keep the old web site running and keep in touch with events. I blog as planB4fashion.blogspot.co.uk and on veg-buildlog.blogspot.com as well as on my own website, Veganline.com<br />
<br />
When I became ill, I looked on the net for business support of adult education that might help me. For example my short term memory got too bad for me to learn how to set-up an online shopping cart to sell shoes. I could probably do it with subsidised help, or as part of a class where other people did it together, but no such class exists. I expected to see classes run by London colleges with titles like <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>"automate your book-keeping without an accountant", or </li>
<li>"manufacturing course suits this workshop space available by the hour" </li>
<li>"sell with Prestashop, Magento,Wordpress, or Drupal".</li>
<li>"product photography for ebay and small ecommerce businesses",</li>
<li><br />
</li>
<li>"make shoes or clothes without workshop space"</li>
<br />
<li>"how to make trials and top-ups of clothing and get a factory to do larger orders"</li>
<br />
<li>"try your clothes in a market for four weeks and see if they sell: share a stall" </li>
<br />
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I don't care who teaches the course if they're competent and I can afford them. but London College of Fashion trains a lot of footwear and fashion graduates, and they need these services just like anyone else.
London College of Fashion runs some footwear courses, but no knowledge transfer partnership system works to help small businesses in London. The Knowledge Transfer Partnership person at London College of Fashion has no background in fashion or footwear, and uses the job to promote a course.
I did find a cluster of taxpayer-funded activity centred around London Fashion Week, London College of Fashion, and Ethical Fashion Forum. A cluster of overlapping organisations and groups of people claiming various government grants in order to promote Chinese or Bangladeshi or Kenyan goods at the expense of goods made in the UK. I found that a significant grant from Greater London Authority went to London Fashion Week, which is a PR organisation that fashion colleges try to infiltrate for their graduates but has as much to do with making clothes as Eurovision has to do with making music.
I believe that if London College of Fashion closed, the world would be a happier place.
Something else would supply the informed demand for good courses - probably the universities of Leicester and Northampton for footwear degrees. Kingston has a better-reviewed course for design.
I believe that the network of grant-claimants, claiming European Social Fund grants or working with the Department for International Development or the British Council or the Cabinet Office or the Higher Education Funding Council or the Greater London Authority would stop applying. That would leave the grants now paid towards London Fashion Week, for example, to cease. Maybe a replacement would spring-up in the midlands, representing the works of UK factories rather than graduates of fashion colleges and a few other applicants who do not state where their products are made. Either way, there would more more column-inches and air-time for people who make things in the UK and argue the case for goods made in a democratic welfare state. I think this would be great for the economy and particularly for non-graduates who want to do manufacturing jobs.
I believe that the covert operations of this lobby would be discouraged, or at least have to be privately funded. Operations like the online course materials from London College of Fashion with their completely false "case studies" of businesses which had never existed, like Juste, a fictional dress import business run by someone who became a front for another bogus organisation, Ethical Fashion Forum (the industry voice for ethical fashion) which had little to do with fashion businesses, ethical or not, and promoted free trade with Bangladesh.
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Example of Manchester University Economics Degree.</span></h4>
I think this course would probably close, as it should, and UK students would find other universities willing to provide better courses. I quote a student report on year one, as taught about 2013, on this page, to illustrate that it puts theory first and doesn't mention public administration.
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Example of Cardiff University Economics Degree</span></h4>
This is what their professor wrote about free trade deals with countries that have no welfare state and so lower costs:
<i>"Over time... it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, leaving mainly industries such as design, marketing and hi-tech. But this shouldn’t scare us."</i>
I would like
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007158FT-100">https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007158FT-100</a> - unistats marks it down
I would like to repeat the quote back to him, but with <i>"bad economics courses"</i> instead of <i>"manufacturing"</i>. Here are some stats about the Cardiff economics degree.
<b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3,285</span></b> international undergraduates (<b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">7,110</span></b> including international post-graduates)
<b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">73/83</span></b> on the Complete Uni Guide league table for student feedback, with students
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>46%</b> </span> stimulated by the syllabus,
<b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">69%</span></b> interested by teaching
<b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">52%</span></b> applied what they had learned.
Other universities have shrunk considerably in the past few years, so a good course in a shrunken university will have plenty of space in lecture theatres and halls of residence and teaching rooms. I think that they have more chance of changing, if it brings-in students. They have a history of running more unusual subjects. There are also universities taking-over at the top of league tables for student feedback for economics - Coventry, East Anglia and DeMontfort - which could expand.
The important point is that students need to know more about the course and think less about the institution as they apply, so that students who would have gone to Manchester don't go to another bad course instead.
I think better economics courses would produce better voters, civil servants, politicians, and people in business. For example, past economics courses have not prepared us for the funding of the NHS over the next decades as the population gets older. The systems have not been set-up. I think this is because of bad economics teaching in the past, in colleges full of ex-pats and ex-private school pupils, staffed by people who use a US style syllabus with its silence about public administration.
<br />
<hr />
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education, presenting data from a spreadsheet called Table 3 here
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">University of the Arts with its London College of Fashion courses</span></h4>
is a big recruiter of international students. I have a run-down footwear business in London and keep track of what they do. They teach a footwear degree. They also have a long-running problem with their associates promoting a different sort of footwear or fashion to the sort that I have produced in the UK.
My sales points are that the footwear contains no animal products and is made in a democratic welfare state with a good human rights record.
Their sales points - if I take Terra Plana for example - are that the brand's intellectual property was borne in the UK, wherever it is held now. I think the brand is defunct after a web site quote saying that "China is arguably more democratic than the UK", and stating that footwear production is only possible nowadays in China. I sauntered into their shop once, and asked, after a while, why the brand was promoted as "ethical". The assistant said I should look at the web site. But this is a brand promoted by UK taxpayers at the expense of companies that have had to close like Manchester Hosiery, Equity Shoes, Remploy Uniforms and others.
Similar companies put great emphasis on whether their shoes can be put in a compost bin and promote this as the only ethical test available. I don't know if Terra Plana shoes can go in a compost bin.
I say "they" because I have no detail about who in what ministry asked for Terra Plana goods to be displayed at the V&A, the Crafts Council, and British Council exhibitions, or why David Cameron wore a pair; I am up against something organised, but I don't often know who organises it and how much the organisation overlaps with London College of Fashion.
They are my rivals in a way, trying to persuade the public to buy fast-changing designs made in China.
Some international students come from countries which offer free or cheap education to people from the UK. I know so little about this subject, that it is best to pretend nothing. Obviously, the deal that a UK student gets when studying in another country is relevant to the deal a student from that country should get when studying in the UK, and if that country offers free education to people like me, I think my taxes should offer students from there similar deal, or at least a cuddly toy or a "thank you" note, if they come over and pay high fees for a bad course in an expensive town, even if they do increase over-crowding,
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Agglomoration.
Words like <i>"crowd"</i> or <i>"full"</i>, <i>"expensive", "long commute"</i> are replaced by <i>"agglomoration"</i> by the Mayor of London, after speaking to lobby groups and GLA econonomics.</span></h4>
There is clearly some kind of hotline between London College of Fashion and various mayors of London of different political parties, including this most recent one Sadiq Khan. I keep coming back to this lobbyist hotline, but there seems to be a whole switchboard of them.
<i>
"The Mayor’s</i><i> Brexit Advisory Group provides regular high-quality advice on the priorities for different sectors and organisations. In July this year, the Mayor hosted a summit of London business and university representatives, public service providers and migration experts to discuss what a future approach to migration should deliver"</i>.
I think maybe he should ask someone on the bus instead of asking lobby groups. The next paragraph sounds like Alan Partridge as well.
<i>London’s higher education institutions are world-leading and a huge benefit not just to the London economy. They are a ready supply of top talent, and responsible for innovations that benefit business, science, health, and living standards in the widest sense. However, the inclusion of international students in the annual migration target has been a costly mistake - it has affected the reputation of our higher education sector and the UK as a welcoming place. This comes at a time of increased global competition for international students, talented academics and researchers. It is clear that the Government should reverse this mistake as a matter of urgency.</i>
There is a sentence about how wonderful the worst-reviewed UK courses are - apparently they are among the best in the world. And then finally there is a statement about the word "full"; how can more people make a full place better? One answer is to cross-out "full" and write "agglomeration".
<i>The capital’s success is based on its openness – to people, trade and ideas. London has responded to globalisation and made use of its competitive advantage in a number of specialisms. It is the world’s leading city for business and culture and is a major asset for the whole of the UK. London’s agglomeration enables innovation, market opportunities and business growth at a rate that many cities cannot match. However, London’s international competitiveness cannot be taken for granted. [...] The UK’s future approach to migration will be a key determinant in whether London remains at the top, or loses investment to New York, Singapore and Paris. </i>
So <i>"agglomeration"</i> is that thing that you see on the Picadilly Line at rush-hour: loads of happy talented people encouraging each other to do more together than they could do apart, more than the people they crowd-out, and more than if they were not in a crowd. I haven't seen it myself.
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Sadiq Khan and Zac Goldsmith answered questions from Vogue for the mayorial elections. I had sent a statement to Khan about London Fashion Week as he started his campaign, but he didn't reply.</span></h4>
Vogue Q5. London is home to some of the best fashion schools in the world, many of which are oversubscribed - what will you do to address this?
SK: It's great that so many people want to come to London to study fashion. We are blessed with some of the world's most famous institutions like the London College of Fashion and Central Saint Martins. I always love visiting the University of the Arts. But being popular brings with it its own challenges - and to cope with that, we need to support our fashion schools to expand. The mayor can help with this - from sourcing land, to supporting them through the planning process and making sure that in large developments we find space for new state-of-the-art premises. The fashion industry will have a friend and ally in me at City Hall.
ZG: In the next few years, the mayor of London will get control of further-education funding in London. I want to channel funding into London's growth industries, and fashion is definitely high up the list. Kingston College, in my current patch as an MP, is one of the most successful fashion schools in the world. I want to export that across London.
Vogue Q9. London Fashion Week, London Fashion Weekend, and London Collections: Mens are major attractions throughout the year - do you plan on working with the BFC on these events and if so, how?
SK: Absolutely! I really enjoyed David Koma's show at London Fashion Week this year. I know what an important part of London's calendar it is. It's really broken through in the last decade and our designers have been recognised internationally, from big brands like Burberry, Paul Smith and Alexander McQueen, to smaller ones like Christopher Kane and Mary Katrantzou. I will work hand-in-hand with the British Fashion Council to make London Fashion Week even bigger and better. I'll also use the role of mayor to sell London abroad, travelling to new and expanding markets to promote the city's crown jewels including the fashion industry.
ZG: Absolutely - these are flagship events for London, a chance to show off our city and its brilliant designers to the rest of the world. As mayor, I will protect the financial contribution that City Hall makes to these events, and I will be enthusiastically promoting them - in government and across the globe.
This response to the Migration Advisory Committee is from
John Robertson
2 Avenue Gardens
London
SW14 8BP
0208 286 9947
shop [at] veganline com
(<a href="http://archive.is/JWMpT" rel="nofollow">archive.is/JWMpT</a> archives the page with table of economics courses ;<a href="http://archive.is/3Q0D3" rel="nofollow"> archive.is/3Q0D3</a> archives this page at about the time of the 26th January call for evidence and they got a word-processor version of this page by the deadline)
<br />
<hr />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Footnote about how London College of Fashion works closely with government</span>
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><i>"The case studies are based on the information provided by the companies and have not been verified of investigated"</i></span></h4>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://issuu.com/shomil/docs/growing_sustainable_fashion_economies" rel="nofollow"><img alt="https://issuu.com/shomil/docs/growing_sustainable_fashion_economies" border="0" data-original-height="633" data-original-width="488" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJtD0U_7zJQ41Yp7Z1ojhcWZBaJbLwDwwVHDZiXrziqPaL9Pv6l3HEC8ol7XZHjpQYeELrXXIzm1uQhrPGoWXbY-0BZzOw8sagp6QYd5B6E1bKH4HQNj0EO4wyhzevf3XjFbd-N96gNCpL/s640/london-college-of-fashion.jpg" title=" Discalmer The views expressed are not necessarily those of the funding body. The case studies are based on information provided by the companies and have not been verified or investigated Acknowledgements Department for Enterprise and International Development (now Centre for Sustainable Fashion) at London College of Fashion BGMA Centre for Fashion Technology. Bangladesh Project Partners Department of Enterprise and International Development at London College of Fashion and BGMEA Institute of Fashion Technology give special thanks to principal funders of this project, Development Partnerships In Higher Educaton (Delphe) the British Council United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNDO), and the companies featured In this publication. Suggested citation for the report: Parker, E. (2011) Crowing Sustainable Economics: A Collection of Entrepreneurial Case Studies in Bangladesh and the UK, by Hammond. L. and Higgtnson H. London College of Fashion." width="492" /></a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>"The case studies are based on the information provided by the companies and have not been verified of investigated"</i>
That's an odd thing to read in a college textbook. Like <i>"we made this up to get a grant", </i>and it was written by a consultant on UK taxpayer funding. <a href="https://archive.is/laFrI">She mentions it on her CV and blog</a>: <a href="http://lynnehammond.uk/?portfolio=growing-sustainable-fashion-economies-a-collection-of-entrepreneurial-case-studies-in-bangladesh-and-uk">
</a>
The screenshot is one of London College of Fashion's publications listing fictional "case studies" of fashion companies, to be promoted by government departments at the expense of real UK fashion manufacturers in getting PR, recognition as ethical brands, or orders. A typical list would be Ethical Fashion Forum, Sari Dress Project, Juste, and Pants to Poverty, dropping <a href="https://www.standard.co.uk/news/the-dirty-truth-about-camerons-green-trainers-7207560.html">Terra Plana</a>, from the list after bad publicity about their Hong Kong supplier. This particular publication mentions Juste and Ethical Fashion Forum. I don't know if the Bangladeshi firms are fictional.
The example of <i>Juste</i> is another college project that never traded, done by someone from Zimbabwe studying at Oxford Brooks, and probably on a Chevening Scholarship. The example of Sari Dress Project seems to be another college project, possibly sponsored by the Sri Lanka government at the time. A graphic design student got her name on the web site as author, but officially it is by staff of London College of Fashion. <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/bond.html">Pants to Poverty</a> was real, but only in the sense that the Ethiopian girl band sponsored by Dfid is real; it never made pants or profit and it helped put UK manufacturers out of business. <a href="https://www.britishcouncil.org/partner/track-record/development-partnerships-higher-education">Development Partnerships in Higher Education</a> must have been real because it cost taxpayer £15 million.
The example is about ten years old but the pattern continues, with plans for the college to help develop parts of East London appearing in the Mayor's proposed budget for the next few years.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com7Migration Advisory Committee, 2 Marsham St, Westminster, London SW1P 4DF, UK51.4958863 -0.1296926999999641331.0463808 -41.438286699999964 71.94539180000001 41.178901300000035tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-20417255975623212622017-08-10T11:52:00.002+01:002017-09-11T19:23:50.338+01:00https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article-times-misleading-makes-me-so-mad-kate-hills<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
The usual story from the likes of London College of Fashion, Monsoon, Ethical Fashion Forum, or this time New Look. Kate Hills, who wote the blog post, has used the same tactic against me when I try to wrestle free information about UK T shirt manufactuers from her...<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article-times-misleading-makes-me-so-mad-kate-hills">https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article-times-misleading-makes-me-so-mad-kate-hills</a><br />
<br />
As Kate Hills says, if you look hard enough in the UK for a factory which will employ people under the minimum wage, you will probably find one. If you pay enough for a UK factory to pay a minimum wage, or you increase the lead time and order size and you pay your bills on time you will find loads more which New Look claim not to have heard of.<br />
<br />
If you want to know more about New Look, you can find their bad reviews on Ethical Consumer:<br />
<a href="http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=275703">http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=275703 </a><br />
<br />
The firm has had trouble getting financial backing recently, and has trouble keeping on good terms with its financial PR companies, working through <a href="http://www.prweek.com/article/1005423/new-look-poised-hand-corporate-pr-account-tulchan-communications">three</a> in quick sucession.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-80042582405599599052017-08-08T19:30:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:22:35.956+01:00Do not invest in Bondora | P2P lending<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<fieldset>
<b>P2P lending</b><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html </a><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html" title="Primestox.com review">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html</a><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html </a> </fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Bondora review: do not invest in Bondora<br />
<a href="http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4853/invest-bondora">http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4853/invest-bondora</a></h3>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_FbceRBVeIVTZCW2BlMxqBQHP_7P4Gwjvw8r0wujV2UNxjkhGfTiJEv3qon9qvNRRsTylN5fSyCBmQAsTipndXEGfYv84eb7_tRh2rCes0J4n6ws0-GlrMn6tCFWM3pelQBpxZZJIHH0V/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Fintech awards: Bondora (ex Isepankur)" border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="1280" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_FbceRBVeIVTZCW2BlMxqBQHP_7P4Gwjvw8r0wujV2UNxjkhGfTiJEv3qon9qvNRRsTylN5fSyCBmQAsTipndXEGfYv84eb7_tRh2rCes0J4n6ws0-GlrMn6tCFWM3pelQBpxZZJIHH0V/s400/temp.jpg" title="" width="400" /></a></div>
<br />
Glad that not many of my loans turned-out like <b>Bondora loans</b>, with worse returns than Funding Circle a few years ago or early Zopa personal loans. Worse than Bitbond. I could be wrong, but my <b>Bondora login</b> screen writes my account as worth €4,160 except that I can't withdraw it. The amount I can withdraw is €0 (worth €4,160 in <b>Bondora</b> money). If I click "sell loans", a high figure for salable loans appears sometimes, and then with a few clicks corrects itself to zero, so I can't withdraw <b>Bondora</b> money and I can't sell <b>Bondora</b> money, and I can't eat it or live in it or anything else either.<br />
<br />
While <b>Bondora</b> write €4,160 on the account, <span style="color: red;"><u>profit is minus €834</u></span> (suggesting 8% or 9% bondora returns with the <b>Bondora portfolio manager</b>). Meanwhile they are happy to take card payments and pay commission for referrals. I imagine that a lot of people borrow on their credit cards to lend, and for some reason, nobody has written articles about what a scam the whole thing has become after a promising start before the firm tried to expand very quickly into new lending markets like Spain and <a href="https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bondora#/entity" nofollow="" rel-="">relied more and more on equity finance companies</a> to buy them out. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4853/invest-bondora">http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4853/invest-bondora</a> has dozens of Bondora trading reviews from people who have lost money on the site, but for some reason there are no search results saying the same thing from newspapers and website claims look impossible to justify. There is another thread for the technically-minded showing just results: None of the technically-minded people look pleased.<br />
<a href="http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4340/general-bondora-statistics">http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4340/general-bondora-statistics</a><br />
<br />
I don't see ads from Bondora so I can't forward them to the UK advertising standards authority - they do a lot of web and PR stuff and those Trustpilot reviews you can get done, but I'm surprised that it isn't sombody's job in some country to get the claims changed or just stop Bondora taking-on new loans. There are loads of very good euro P2P lending sites that loose trust because of their neighbour.</div>
<br />
If you would like to nominate <b>Bondora</b> and their equity finance backers (who don't invest in the loans themselves I think) for the <b>Fintech award</b>s, please add a note saying "not seriously". </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com37tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-77009989094820956242017-07-28T19:18:00.001+01:002017-08-14T19:45:17.325+01:00Sons of Divine Providence T/a Orion<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Council funding over £500 is public nowadays, as spreadsheets.<br />
<br />
"<b>Sons of Divine Providence T/a Orion</b>".looked a bit frightening. Like Jimmy Saville with knobs on. Scroll down to tbe bottom of this blog post and you will see what I mean, even though <a href="http://www.cqc.org.uk/provider/1-101653213">inspectior's reports are good</a>.<br />
<br />
<br />
The Royal Borough of Richmond upon Themes is the council that paid <b>The Catholic Childrens Society</b> to provide schools counselling services, just after that organisation ceased being an adoption agency to avoid prosecution. They would have been prosecuted for refusing to talk about gay fostering and adoption or allow it. Richmond council didn't give much information about that:<br />
<a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/schools_counselling_contract_awa">https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/schools_counselling_contract_awa</a><br />
<br />
Suspicious about <b>Sons of Divine Providence T/a Orion</b> (but not keen to do a load of work digging I don't know if this spending is down to someone who needs social care, and their guardian. It could be that a faith-group enthusiast is responsible for someone with learning difficulties, and asked the council to fund this particular care home. So I don't know if the choice of care home has anything to do with the council.<br />
<br />
Suspicion led to prosecution and judgements aganist the mayor of Tower Hamlets a few years ago. I was interested in Tower Hamlets Council because they helped fund a bunch called <i>"Ethical Fashion Forum"</i> along with<i> "Ethical Fashion Bloggers"</i> and a cheap office for another bunch called <i>"Pants to Poverty"</i> at a building called <i>"Rich Mix"</i>, which was an arts centre and small workshop letting space apparently, built at headling-grabbing cost on the site of a nearly identical building which was knocked-down to make space. Each of these organisations was something other than it first seemed; none was much of a trading company or trade association or a group of bloggers. After all, why would a group of bloggers have an office address? Each group was influenced, I think, by an advertising agency called Futerra, which was keen on free trade at the expense of producers in democratic welfare states and their potential staff, often in Tower Hamlets according to unemployment stats from jobcentres..<br />
<br />
Part of the time the council was controlled by Mr Rahman, trading as THF, a political party. These are paragraphs from the court judgement that removed him.<br />
<br />
<i>"In essence the allegation against Mr Rahman is that considerable money was paid to organisations (including media organisations) operating within the Bangladeshi community by way of grants, with the corrupt intention that those who belonged to or benefitedfrom those organisations would be induced to vote for him and for THF"<br /><br />"It is said that undue religious influence was exercised so as to convince Muslim voters that it was their religious duty to vote for Mr Rahman and THF"</i><br />
<br />
I have got about half way through the judgement and may not ever read to the end, but it suggests why a council should back causes associated with a faith group in order to boost the vote, and do it in un-stated ways. A council might write <i>"thinning"</i> to claim a woodland management grant to reduce <i>"invasive speces ... knotweed"</i>, when everybody knows they want to stop gypsies and gay people using a piece of park, and there is a stonking-great 2m height restriction built to stop caravans getting in and a ginormous ground clearing operation, applied only to areas used for cruising, to make gay people more vulnerable to crime and to discourage them.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Barnes Common, Friends of Barnes Common, and the anti-cruising clearances</h3>
Richmond Council claimed a £40,000 grant for thinning woodland in order to protect native grassland and prevent invasive knotweed on the south side of Barnes Common. Action not wanted needed or done. Spending is on the north side. The council's client organisation, <i>"Friends of Barnes Common"</i>, said half of this after a training session from a group at Tower Hamlets Cemetry, where they went for a walk-around and introduction to techniques for reducing cruising. <br /><br />They spent £60,000 on "regularising" a car park with floodlights on masts which happen to shine in to the cruising area to annoy and endanger the gay cruising taxapayers of Richmond upon Thames.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
Funny what councils do isn't it? I thought they had a duty to provide social care, education, social housing, and maintenance of minor roads with the taxpayers' money they get. To be fair to them, I saw another payment to "Eagle House School", which is some wierd place I had to go when I was 8-13 years old. I wouldn't recommend it to future generations any more than - from the look of it - I would recommend this bunch. Both probably pass care quality commission tests and I checked that <a href="http://www.cqc.org.uk/provider/1-101653213">this one does</a>. But it looks like Jimmy Saville with knobs on, saying something very strange about parents and funders that is nothing to do with what's best for someone with learning difficulties.<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgUxGBYA3SyYiSq5fTq1-tlCZPFko_rqOwBmxR7aaCXUt-b2vOC_AVDavtasd0sNJAedYo_K5lE6IwKCC4A69emrw2qIip4pIJhTnJcNvyz23jhRjlZNLBU8Wdt0aHy4tF4MROGzvbAHq2w/s1600/Saint%252520logo%252520W%255B1%255D.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Sainthood is obviously stupid and promotes people like Jimmy Saville" border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="623" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgUxGBYA3SyYiSq5fTq1-tlCZPFko_rqOwBmxR7aaCXUt-b2vOC_AVDavtasd0sNJAedYo_K5lE6IwKCC4A69emrw2qIip4pIJhTnJcNvyz23jhRjlZNLBU8Wdt0aHy4tF4MROGzvbAHq2w/s1600/Saint%252520logo%252520W%255B1%255D.png" title="Sainthood is obviously stupid and promotes people like Jimmy Saville" /></a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-32004697675847154002017-06-16T17:06:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:22:37.539+01:00Grenfell Tower - get on board<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div style="text-align: left;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a alt="Get On Board - the slogan used by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation when making decisions like choosing flammible cladding at Grenfill Tower" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpaO5heG0nF98DGyPXg0_Xllxlg-I_BBnJWEJT-Q63QUYEABjJQ2IMbK12HjOYNtcKBcrTNwZl8UqtwiDdRGTN0xE8qn9wVMiNzVOCzfY-JfLMLJ62Rr2Q2CcP5QpbbDjwLn33RDSvxdwR/s1600/164003_tmo_live_part_2%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="354" data-original-width="500" height="451" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpaO5heG0nF98DGyPXg0_Xllxlg-I_BBnJWEJT-Q63QUYEABjJQ2IMbK12HjOYNtcKBcrTNwZl8UqtwiDdRGTN0xE8qn9wVMiNzVOCzfY-JfLMLJ62Rr2Q2CcP5QpbbDjwLn33RDSvxdwR/s640/164003_tmo_live_part_2%255B1%255D.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Grenfell Tower's Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation: Get On Board</td></tr>
</tbody></table>I used to work just over the road from Grenfell Tower on a housing and social work job. Scroll to the bottom for an anecdote headed "<span style="color: red;">anecdote</span>" that might make you laugh. From that, I learnt nothing about Grenfell Tower directly (one or two tenants moved to council flats next door but not in the tower) but a lot of the evidence is obvious about the causes of the fire, </div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>cladding not sprinklers</li>
<li>housing associations management, not "residents listened to" or "fire regulations" directly</li>
<li>what an inquiry should talk about, if there is a need for one at all </li>
</ul><div style="text-align: left;"></div><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Polyurethane Cladding</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Everyone has seen fire damage on tower blocks, which effects one flat and just possibly the one above or two floors above, if cinders have got in through a window. It follows that the problem is not directly about sprinklers, even if they would have helped. Everyone has also seen the smouldering cladding on TV, so that's where the problem lies.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Housing Association Management </span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Meanwhile, The Guardian writes that a load of people are in Kensington Town Hall chanting "we want answers" while The Independent thinks they are shouting "we want justice" - it must be hard to tell who should ask what question to who. Kensington Council is ground landlord to a specialist housing association that spent £10 million on polyurethane cladding. A small amount of extra spending would have bought inflammable cladding. It's as simple as that.<br />
<br />
One thing I did learn while working for a housing organisation was how completely dotty they are, obsessed with procedure and hierarchy that forces staff to act a bit like MPs, stuck between residents and a procedure that says they have to be consulted about decisions already taken. While procedure is important, the theory behind what they do is almost secret and has to be picked-up gradually with luck. Each member of staff has a different theory to what the organisation is meant to do. Grenfell Tower was slightly simpler because it offers permanent housing, but some of the complications are the same.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Examples.</span></h4><br />
Should a supported temporary housing organisation exist to help <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>past residents with resettlement and opportunities to come-back to a club or for advice</li>
<li>future residents</li>
<li>just the ones in the building who make a fuss?</li>
</ul><br />
If a junior member of staff somehow gives a senior member of staff a funny feeling of unstated disagreement, is this a question of <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>facts, polite disagreement, action according to who's job it is to decide what</li>
<li>bad attitude and an excuse to discourage a potential rival?</li>
</ul><br />
Should the funding of the organisation be<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>described in a contract in the director's safe, which nobody else is allowed to see?</li>
<li>presumed by everyone concerned in their own way, often conflicting? For example people could agree that it would be good for a volunteer to do something, but need more information about whether taxpayer subsidy or rent covers something done by paid staff.</li>
</ul><br />
Should fire safety information be<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>evidence based with training to anyone who needs it based on records of past fires and clear facts?</li>
<li>left at the discretion of fire safety officers who speak to the maintenance manager about fire regulations that don't exist or are very hard to look-up?</li>
<li>oddly enough, an ex employee of the housing association has written an article for The Guardian - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/worked-kctmo-nightmares-burning-tower-blocks">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/worked-kctmo-nightmares-burning-tower-blocks</a> . Her experience is a little less frustrating in some ways. She got a job after university; I faced all this in the 80s and had to work-up to the privilege of a housing job or a housing support job. Housing support workers were paid less and that was my job title. She also got some kind of clear training about fire by default. I had to talk about fire safety because team meetings required it, so I asked for proper training and eventually got it, from the firm that supplied fire extinguishers. An unusual success but true. The ambivalence is the same. Is the job social work? Or letting agent? Or an awful mixture of the two under glaring management scrutiny by people who shouldn't really be in the job, but were somehow allowed to cash the subsidy cheque.</li>
</ul></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><br />
Should consultation of residents assume<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>that all residents want the same thing, to be determined in a meeting, and <i>"get on board"</i> as the picture suggests?</li>
<li>that every tenant will want a slightly different thing, often overlapping? For example most might think plastic cladding flammable, some might not care either way if sprinklers are installed, others might think it a waste of money and a few might not want the things in their flats while they are tenants, whatever happens outside. That's not a <i>"get on board"</i> answer.</li>
</ul></blockquote><blockquote>You get the gist that nobody would want to work for a housing organisation for long and staff turnover is high. Meanwhile a group of residents is encouraged to use vague language and to feel disappointed. I disagree with The Guardian's statement about a similar group:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><i></i><br />
<i> "Residents are not ignorant: they have to live in buildings like this one every day, hoping for the best in the knowledge that this home is the only one they have. Grenfell Tower’s tenants may not have been <a class="u-underline" data-link-name="in body link" href="https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-fire-and-cladding-dangers" title="">experts in architectural cladding</a> – who is, apart from the people you entrust with the safety of your home? – but they were well aware that their building didn’t have an adequate fire-alarm system or procedure for evacuation in the event of a serious fire."</i></blockquote>The truth is that residents have different levels of ignorance, and the tricky bit is to inform and educate about background detail, and that's something that could be done on the .gov.uk website or anywhere similar; it doesn't have to be done by every single landlord. Just today, someone added a note to this page <a href="https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire">https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire</a> to say that planning permission was for less flammable cladding. That's the kind of fact that residents need so that debates can be reasonable and not break-down into phrases like <i>"doesn't listen"</i> or <i>"justice"</i>.<br />
<br />
If I lived in a tower block, I would not vote for fire practises, nor go-along with them if introduced. I would be the one who left a pushchair next to the lift and got cross with an official who sent a letter. The truth is obvious. It's plastic cladding that spread the fire, and sprinklers would only use-up scarce time and money, so making the choice of cheap cladding more likely.<br />
<br />
There another bit of ignorance that politicians and media encourage. It is a view of a religious people who like to come together in shared togethery-ness, and have no need for the Social Fund or whatever it is called now, or Housing Benefit, or the council's duty social worker or duty to rehouse in emergencies. No politician went to visit Work and Pensions staff trying to deal with emergency claims, but a few visited </blockquote><blockquote><br />
No wonder there is a group of people making a fuss about sprinklers that wouldn't have helped, and a group sitting in the ground landlord's lobby chanting "justice" or "answers" as loudly as they can. If there is a public enquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire's cause, that's what it will find out. An organisation with high staff turnover, low availability of facts, and shelves full of tenant consultation notes and policies as their name - <a href="http://www.kctmo.org.uk/" title="Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation TMO, 0800 137 111, 292a Kensal Road, London, W10 5BE - managing landlord for Grenfill Tower">Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation</a> - suggests. If you check their web site at this difficult time, you see just such a message, as a pop-up that all new visitors have to acknowledge.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<fieldset><i>We have published a new cookie policy. It explains what cookies are and how we use them on our site. To learn more about cookies and their benefits, please view our <a href="http://www.kctmo.org.uk/cookies">cookie policy.</a><br />
<br />
If you'd like to disable cookies on this device, please view our <a href="http://www.kctmo.org.uk/cookies">information pages</a> on 'How to manage cookies'. Please be aware that parts of the site will not function correctly if you disable cookies.<br />
<br />
By closing this message, you consent to our use of cookies on this device in accordance with our cookie policy unless you have disabled them.</i></fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">what an inquiry should talk about </span></h3><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><b>Planning permission was for one cladding; the suppliers' receipt was for another more flammable one.</b> That's the whole thing sorted with just some background stuff to find out about</li>
<li><b>How members of housing association staff thought plastic cladding was OK</b>.<br />
This is the same as asking: how do people who wish they could get a better job end-up making a decision when bombarded from all sides? What is it that makes the job difficult and short of applicants? What allows the Machiavellian applicant to get the job? Why are people writing about the need for sprinklers, which would reduce a tight budget, when more expensive cladding (or none) is obviously the answer?</li>
<li><b>How fire laws, law-like rules, and evidence could be made more search-able and well-written.</b> To the point where any builder or housing association worker or tenant in a consultation meeting should be able to start looking them up, even if they give-up and ask advice later in the process. This is more important than whether laws and law-like things are up to date on plastic cladding, I think that private sources of information and negligence law should work almost by themselves, even if nobody updates things like ministerial guidelines for decades.<br />
<br />
If evidence of past fires and injuries could be linked to the same sources of information, so that someone in a meeting with colleagues about cheap cladding, under pressure from all sides, could point to previous fires, that would be ideal.</li>
<li><b>How people who are fair and who respect facts could be hired info public-funded management jobs</b>. This I think requires a way of getting a reference from previous junior colleagues, as well as the senior ones who might be Machiavellis or just desperate to be shot of the person they give a reference for.</li>
<li><b>How people are so ignorant of facts that they invade the wrong building, claim they are being lied-to about facts which nobody can yet know (the death toll) and generally believe that making a noise helps.</b> I think the rioters are the problem as well as the cladding-choosers and their management.</li>
<li><b>How to get breathable air to a flat that has toxic smoke wafting about.</b> Sprinklers wouldn't help. A long fire-proof hose in each flat might help, either to climb down or to breath through.</li>
<li><b>Finally there is the issue of dignitaries and camera units coming to film and shake hands with people called "community leaders" in one case.</b> There was a report today that a local catholic priest was praying for victims of the disaster. I hope it made a concrete difference, but in the UK we have a<br />
benefits agency with <br />
hardship payments, we have <br />
duty social workers, <br />
housing benefit, and the <br />
council's duty to re-house people made homeless by disasters. <br />
<br />
All of these are important and more likely to have any effect than what the BBC reports, which is priests and shared togethery-ness. So the enquiry should enquire why no politician could be bothered to visit the benefits agency and no public sector information worker put-out statements about how benefits are meant to work. The result could be better understanding by claimants about what they've paid for, better understanding by politicians about whether the system works, and less of this pretend system by which people pull-together and post random jumpers to local churches in case that helps.</li>
</ul><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Anecdote - skip to para two if in a hurry</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"> As it happens my employer - London Cyrenians - rented cheap space off the building where Grenfell residents met politicians or spent an emergency night or two, a building built as a church, with basements and balconies sub-let to social work and education agencies, and still working for faith groupies in the middle. Our office was in the left-hand balcony, where Victorian architects planned for so many more faithful to congregate that two tears of seating would be required. Maybe they expected even more and left room to build more balconies. By the 1950s or 1960s, someone must have guessed that this was not going to happen and built partitions with frosted glass and lockable doors to make a lettable office space.<br />
<br />
One day the boss was a way for the weekly stupid team meeting. We heard music. <i>Lead Kindly Light Amidst Encircling Gloom ... Leed Thou Me On ... </i> something like that. So we sang along, as you do if trying to bond with colleagues.<br />
<br />
This was a real funeral for some faith-groupies, apparently. The director told us a day or two later, just in passing. There was nothing else to do or say</blockquote><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><hr />related post about London Housing Trust:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/06/london-housing-trust.html" title="London Housing Trust">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/06/london-housing-trust.html</a></div><br />
John Robertson now works at <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">Veganline.com for vegan shoes online</a></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-48448053062076027552017-04-13T10:32:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:22:39.458+01:00Primestox.com - I have just invested in a new P2P lending site<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">P2P lending related pages</span><br />
</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety" title="type /stats after the url to see performance and loan statistics - free to sign up as a lender">Rebuildingsociety</a> business & asset finance<br />
</li>
<li> <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" title="P2P invoice finance">Investly</a> invoice finance<br />
</li>
<li> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html</a> another post on this obscure blog<br />
</li>
<li> <a href="http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/8588/primestox-company-platform-stock-finance">http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/8588/primestox-company-platform-stock-finance</a> Place for comments on the P2P independent forum for now<br />
</li>
<li> <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Boots with comfortable microfibre tops and three layer soles that mould to the shape of your feet - made in the UK">Veganline.com for vegan shoes on-line - author's advert</a><br />
</li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<fieldset>
<b>P2P lending on this blog</b><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html </a><br />
https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html </a> </fieldset>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhuurF17cP3cg9bjnpDWuMQDRKqkE4W5xUorllrfjVpJ-0czdCQ9uOBj0RIuk_pzbcgvgnBWMo1oQRg_AkwtJfJWQkbNH445uCL_jcWlWQyklfU_g7i6BJdFkcc5VgN9j_OQf2EPFEeVF0n/s1600/temp.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Primstox logo copied for a review of primestox.com" border="0" height="115" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhuurF17cP3cg9bjnpDWuMQDRKqkE4W5xUorllrfjVpJ-0czdCQ9uOBj0RIuk_pzbcgvgnBWMo1oQRg_AkwtJfJWQkbNH445uCL_jcWlWQyklfU_g7i6BJdFkcc5VgN9j_OQf2EPFEeVF0n/s400/temp.png" title="" width="400" /></a></div>
Just invested a few tenners in <a href="http://primestox.com/" title="P2P investment in food stock - UK based">Primestox.com</a> , a P2P lending outfit that has trappings of sanity like a nice web site. It has high annual percentage payback rates on very small short-term small investments if all goes well, and next to no references from other web pages. So I decided to invest about £100 yesterday, and write this referring page which I revise now and then. There's also a link to a <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" target="_blank" title="P2P invoice finance market">P2P invoice finance company</a> further down which might interest the same businesses, and a <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety">P2P business capital company</a> which is good for secured loans on equipment. I don't know why I wrote "capital" rather than "finance" but I think it looks good for larger amounts.<br />
<br />
( Update February 2018 - Every Primestox deal has paid on time or early, one or two have posted freebies, and the system has worked exactly as described. Most of the deals have sold-out within hours, so the rates on offer are dropping. Below 12% it is harder to get P2P lenders interested quickly because sites like Lendy and Fundingsecure offer that much for bridging loans; at the moment Primestox offers are about 18% with free card processing. )</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The Primestox contract</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.primestox.com/faq">primestox.com/faq</a>/ + a brochure or ask customerservice@... or the formal version: <a href="https://www.primestox.com/terms-and-conditions">primestox.com/terms-and-conditions</a></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Investors have a right to a parcel of food on default</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The firm finances food for investors, and, being a P2P platform, investors own the food. Other P2P systems are a bit theoretical about this, but not Primestox, where it is a point of pride and and spelt-out in some detail, with inevitable gaps. The food is financed over about three months allowing its manufacture, sale to a shop, and payment back to the manufacturer or importer. Each investor owns the right to an individual parcel of food, with free delivery, if the process goes wrong. A pound of flesh for example. The earlier deals have been branded, upmarket, and valued at a near-retail price somewhere like Waitrose. More recently there have been bulk spice imports as well.<br />
<br />
There is no link from one lender to one physical piece of food until the parcel is made-up, but it's a safe bet that a food company will have food to spare if not money, and there is a more general link between one batch of loans to the food company and one batch of food produced.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A way of funding food production before it is produced without borrowing</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.primestox.com/producers/" title="Food Producers
Are you
Fulfilling a large purchase order? Carrying stock? Importing food? Farming?
1.
Call PrimeStox
Tell us what you need. Talk to a representative to establish whether your company and offer is right for us 0207 846 0153
2.
Consider listing
Find out how much you could raise and which products we would pay for. Determine how long you'd have the funds.
3.
Get paid and get going!
Make an advance sale to PrimeStox. Get paid and get growing. Accelerate your growth. Pay only market rates. Get a marketing boost. ">primestox.com/producers/</a> is the new producer's page or ask producers@...com<br />
+44 (0) 207 846 0153<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/355x355/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/u/jumbo-porridge-oats-25kg_1.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="sack of oats picture - wholesale food" border="0" data-original-height="355" data-original-width="355" height="200" src="https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/355x355/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/u/jumbo-porridge-oats-25kg_1.jpg" title="" width="200" /></a>I'm not a producer and pick this up from examples under each past loan, headed <i>"the proposal"</i>. The gist of it is that you pre-sell some of the product before it's cooked - while it is a sack of oats for sale at a supplier's warehouse, worth so much less than the finished product that you can offer a very attractive rate of return to a few investors. These are some notes from a proposal, with the adjectives left-out.<br />
<b><br />
</b> <b>Fund the production of ... snacks.</b><br />
Oat, Almond, Carob, Seed, Apricot, Brazil Nut main ingredients for chewy or chunky squares<br />
Packed in retail cases of 20.<br />
Sogud will produce of 4 varieties x 70 cases (280 total)<br />
<br />
<b>Product Review</b><br />
Good<br />
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Location</b></div>
<div class="desc">
Lanarkshire, Scotland</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Producer</b></div>
<div class="desc">
<a href="https://www.sogud.co.uk/">Sogud Ltd</a></div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Duration</b></div>
<div class="desc">
4 months</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Repayment date</b></div>
<div class="desc">
26th Sep 2017</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Profit offered</b></div>
<div class="desc">
5.5% absolute, 17% annual</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Security</b></div>
<div class="desc">
100% of the product</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Product</b></div>
<div class="desc">
Sogud Single Serve Gluten Free Squares (20 per case)</div>
</div>
<div class="item">
<div class="head">
<b>Marketplace</b></div>
<div class="desc">
Fife Creamery, TK Maxx</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <h4>
<span style="color: red;">Promoting the food, retail, wholesale, and the brand in the background</span><br />
</h4>
P2P finance makes your business public to a few dozen people on each platform who become interested in your brand. A few is better than none. It also allows you to offer a cash-back deal that encourages some lenders to think about buying your food. Some do. Some remember to claim cash back This is a more targeted kind of promotion than a loan raised on Seedrs or Crowdcube, where some of the same food firms have funded production. <br />
<br />
If lenders want food instead of repayment on a small loan, better still - Primestox encourages them to email, and will forward requests on to you.<br />
<br />
<i>"CrowdCube does a fantastic job of publicising SMEs. But does this always lead to sales? PrimeStox's product focus can boost revenues of our producers. " -<a href="https://primestox.com/comparison/">primestox.com/comparison</a></i> <br />
<br />
<i>"From the manufacturers perspective this will finance inventory and drive sales to consumers. A positive double whammy! "</i>, <i>- review in Informatia.</i> <br />
<br />
Lenders are called "friends". I'm a blogger; I don't know much about human relations, but this doesn't sound quite right. <br />
<br />
Even a blogger can sense some connection between an invester and the food. Some lenders may be bloggers or tweeters or chatterboxes or dinner hosts or potential stockists. They might offer the cash-back deal to someone else. They also have an incentive to fund small amounts, simply because of the risk (a theoretical risk so far) of defaulted borrowers' food plonked on their door step, so there are a more plonkees per batch of food than lenders per loan on other P2P sites - it's like crowd funding with extra incentives to buy food. <br />
<br />
The link to your brand and sales pitch remains on the Primestox site for as long as they want to show their track record, which is probably a long time.</li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;">Formal way for informal contacts to lend</span><br />
</h4>
If a food producer has relatives, partners, staff, customers, or any kinds of contacts who want to take a flutter, this provides a formal way that they can do it without having to draw-up a contract. So your 50% partner can put more money into the batch and remain a 50% partner. Paroducers just put-up a poster for Primestox. Contacts sees the url, log-on out of curiosity, and your family or your customer might take a punt. Or take a punt on the next deal if they ever have spare money in the bank. </li>
<li> <h4>
<span style="color: red;">Promoting the food for clearance wholesale</span><br />
</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
This is un-tested, but from a food producers' point of view it might be good to be known to a lot of foodies, just in case one of them can offer a price for specialised food near its sell-by date. Maybe another person who puts money in is a shopkeeper who will try selling the stuff and order some more when it runs-out. My search for investers on twitter reveals a physics teacher, a football journalist and a P2P lending enthusiast who likes bitcoin. I am a P2P enthusiast too, but one who advertises a facebook page to vegans for a vegan shoe shop, so I could help try to clear products for the vegan market. I guess that one food industry person tends to attract another over time. Maybe they all live together in a special building somewhere ... or maybe I'm going off the point a bit here.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Incentives to borrowers compared to invoice finance, banks & crowd funding</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b><span style="color: red;">Security</span></b>. The name says it. Other lenders start by asking about the business, then very quickly ask for as much security as for a personal loan. If the loan goes bad they can hardly be bothered to think about the value of stock. A personal guarentee can only be given so many times. For example at <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance">Investly</a> invoice finance, when either side somehow messes-up - either the shop or the supplier - then the loan is backed by the supplier's personal guarantee. Called-in for payment, this could be a distraction that causes stress and legal costs all round rather than paying-back the lenders or letting the borrower get-on with earning a living, so anyone who is short of credit might use Primestox for all of a loan, while another borrower might use some combination of <a href="https://primestox.com/">Primstox</a> and <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance">Investly</a>. I don't know the contract, but there is certainly not much stated to investers about personal guarantees. The contract probably evolves from experience over time.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">Small loans allowed</span></b>. The track record says it. The smallest loan on their web site so far is £3,000, while <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety">Rebuildingsociety</a> has a minimum loan amount of £25,000. Investly will lend from 1,000 and Marketinvoice has a calculator that starts at £5,000 with a minimum £250 fee to match.</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Compared to 1.65-2.6% monthly interest for invoice finance on <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" target="blank" title="P2P invoice finance">Investly</a></span><span style="color: black;"><a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" title="P2P invoice finance"><br />
</a></span></h4>
<span style="color: black;"><a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" title="P2P invoice finance">Investly</a> is a P2P site where lenders lend the value of an invoice not yet paid. <br />
It doesn't have regular stream of loans for lenders, compared to other P2P sites, but might appeal to the same people who are looking to borrow or pre-sell; the companies that sell food on Primestox.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance">Investly</a>'s site says borrowers pay 1.65-2.6% a month - about 20-35% annually.</span> If the invoice has not yet been agreed, there is no loan; it is only for a month or so between sending an invoice to the shop and getting paid. Assuming the shop doesn't want to pay before production, that leaves a lot of ingredients and work to finance, even before sending the food and the invoice. So invoice finance just competes with the last month or so of the three-month cycle that Primestox typically finances. Primstox' one press mention, in <span style="color: black;"><a href="http://www.informita.com/resources/Informita+News++-+Quarter+4+2016.pdf">Informita New, December 2016</a>, says that there aren't many stock or inventory finance companies - <i>"there are some out there who have had limited success, but none have hit the market in a bit way"</i>, so the niche-within-a-niche of <i>"perishable"</i> could do with a specialist P2P firm. There has also been a shortage of cheap bank loans to smaller firms, allowing P2P markets like <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety" title="type /stats after the url to see performance and loan statistics - free to sign up as a lender">Rebuildingsociety</a> to fill the gap and make loans secured on equipment or buildings.</span></li>
<li><h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Benefit compared to a bank</span></h4>
It's a kind of civic duty to find alternatives to banks at the moment, but there are financial reasons to avoid them as well. Everybody knows that they have high costs and are short of money.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>Our experience tells us that business owners are in distress about having their overdrafts and other bank products pulled with short notice. In fact, research suggests that banks are pulling £5 billion in overdrafts from business in the UK each month! What’s more alarming is that this is not new and has been a trend for almost a decade, since before the financial crisis, and banks are still not lending anywhere near as much as they did prior to 2007.</i></div>
<i> </i><div style="text-align: left;">
<i><br />
</i></div>
<i> </i><div style="text-align: left;">
<i>The alternatives to SME bank lending have all notably moved away from a ‘one size fits all’, ‘computer says no’, ‘box-ticking’, approach, understanding that different businesses have different financial needs at different times. - K Grieff of <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety">Rebuildingociety</a> , 7/6/17</i></div>
<br />
The Primestox alternative offers a little very targeted advertising, tempting people to go into shops and buy the food. A better deal than borrowing more money to pay for advertising. Which is presumably why some firms experiment with sites like Indiegogo and Crowdcube to raise cash; Primestox pitches itself in the same producers. </li>
<li><h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><a href="https://primestox.com/comparison/">Primestox.com/comparison</a> v Indiegogo, Market Invoice, Crowdcube & Ratesettter </span></h4>
A neat point-by-point comparison chart. - Indiegogo is a donation or investment platform that doesn't necessarily offer rewards to investors. - Crowdcube offers shares as a reward, which pay no dividend and can only be sold at another funding round. There is no other security like security on specific stock or a personal guarantee. - Market Invoice is an <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance">invoice finance</a> site, that I don't know about as a lender because they have a very high minimum investment. - Ratesetter is a consumer credit and low-risk lending site.</li>
</ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"></span> </h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">My first two or three investments...</span><br />
</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>£30 for 16 x ¼ litre fruit juice, cold-pressed @ £15 a litre.<br />
</li>
<li>£20 for 20 x 60g fruit energy bars @ £16.66 a kilo. For comparison, ClearanceXL tries to sell 60g fruit energy bars at a quarter the price - four for a pound plus delivery. If they were buying they'd want to pay - what? - 10p a bar sale or return for some minimum amount?<br />
</li>
<li>£20 for 200g of vanilla paste @ £100 a kilo<br />
</li>
<li>£25 for 10 x 200g pots of fermented pickle @ £12.50 a kilo. This is usually home-made or sold in wholefood markets apparently.<br />
</li>
<li>£20 for 10 x 500g packs of frozen chips, sweet potato, battered @ £4 a kilo. MySupermarket shows a few shops selling sweet potato chips, usually not battered, with the smaller packs or upmarket brands around £4 a kilo while typical prices are £2.60 or less on special offer or under £2 at Aldi. Waitrose sells these battered ones at £5.60 a kilo. The same brand has some crisps at ClearanceXL (see below) but I get this wrong at first glance - they are crisps and not these chips.</li>
<li>If I update this page after any of my loans default, I'll mention it at the top of the page but repeated loans on different deals have all gone well so far.</li>
</ul>
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">Incentives for lenders</span><br />
</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <h4>
<span style="color: red;">Cashback</span><br />
</h4>
If you buy the food in a shop, borrowers might offer a cashback deal, should you be organised enough to keep the receipt and send it in. Maybe when the payment comes, you could use it to buy a packet of food with the cashback deal. Primestox suggest you email them if you want food instead of interest,<br />
</li>
<li> <h4>
<span style="color: red;">Flutter of excitement - food is delivered to you if the borrower can't pay</span><br />
</h4>
For investments of a few tenners, the excitement is in the flutter. A parcel of food might turn-up one day if the payment doesn't. If payment does arrive, you could use it with a cashback scheme to get a packet of food, or put it towards beer and fags and gambling debts, or leave it in the account to spend on the next deal to come-along and watch the money grow.<br />
<br />
For investments of two or three hundred pounds at a time, it's trickier. Nobody knows the risk of the borrower not paying - whether one in twenty or one in a hundred. If a borrower can't pay, nobody knows the chance of some compromise offer like selling at clearance prices to Approved Food at a lot less than the price you paid. The bottom of this blog post lists some firms that make offers for wholesale food near its sell-by date. If you have to take delivery of more food than you can eat, there is not much else online to say what you can do with it but you might have some use for bulk food and have all sorts of schemes. Talking of excitement, the hobby of thinking about food might encourage you to curry some over-date veg in the fridge instead of throwing it away, so you save that way as well.<br />
</li>
<li> <h4>
<span style="color: red;">Interest</span><br />
</h4>
There is interest of one or two pounds on the sizes of investment I've described and a three month loan, but there is a tick box you can tick to invest a lot more. One or two pounds is a lot of interest on ten or twenty pounds, for a three month loan. The annual percentage rates are at the top end of what investors can get, I think. In comparison <a href="http://bit.ly/invoicefinance" target="blank" title="P2P invoice finance">Investly invoice finance</a> pays around 10-20% to lenders on an auto-lend system: The loans only last a month or so, but your cash is re-lent automatically to the next one if business picks-up (it's a bit slow as I write) and it costs nothing to sign-up. Other platforms like <a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety">Rebuildingsociety</a> had high rates of interest on offer when they started, which gradually dropped in an auction system. <br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGgLAgIPOmXpKlsBDqP-qtZ5XVHPRKAUDL2JGLvL0SPr_M82bB5FP-YsCdBl3Crd7w2XfAU5YTzIVPnAyOA2K6jhGjguvXJNqae6v3QFLgi7HKEOkaN2HLONN2Iics4eaCP77wJWQkrQtd/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGgLAgIPOmXpKlsBDqP-qtZ5XVHPRKAUDL2JGLvL0SPr_M82bB5FP-YsCdBl3Crd7w2XfAU5YTzIVPnAyOA2K6jhGjguvXJNqae6v3QFLgi7HKEOkaN2HLONN2Iics4eaCP77wJWQkrQtd/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">the morning after</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<a href="http://bit.ly/rebuildingsociety">Rebuildingsociety</a> are good at dealing-with defaults, but still have enough bad debts to take average returns down to the mid-teens. Lenders' experiments with sites like this will loose on a few like <a href="http://bit.ly/2pWUMGp">Bondora</a> who just shovel-out money like Leaman Brothers and shrug when it doesn't come back. A better investment could be in selling cocaine to the director of Lehman Brothers - pictured - but that's probably illegal and I don't know whether he took decisions and drugs at the same time - it's just the way someone took a photograph that suggests it.<br />
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">For borrowers and lenders -<span style="color: red;"> Default: what next?</span></span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This is a hunch. I have never dabbled in commodities trading so I might be quite ignorant about how often it comes to the crunch and commodities get delivered to lenders. And none of this has happened.<br />
<br />
If there is a deliberate and very convincing fraud, the producer disappears leaving no commodity. This is a very old problem. Contracts were invented for this kind of situation. Anyway I doubt that a deliberate fraudster would pick such a public way to do it, with so many different people looking at the details, so that's a very tiny chance. Then there are natural disasters, illnesses and the like but I guess that just about every batch of food gets produced, into shops or warehouses and worth a lot more than the original sack of oats. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I guess that food companies want good publicity from their borrowing, and will do a lot to avoid defaulting on the loan if they can pay, but these things happen. <i>"the situation could arise that [they] could not pay. In that case you continue to hold title to the the product until it is sold. You also have the option of requesting that the product be sent to you or a location you specify - at no additional cost. " - FAQ</i> An online vote, run by Primestox.com, allows other investors to out-vote you on the best option, but I guess that a vote would allow some people to take the stock and others to hold-on for repayment or accept an offer if available. If the borrower is still in business and half solvent, I imagine that they want to pay later for the food that will sell, rather than return all of it. There are degrees of mess-up, from late-payment to late payment under legal threat to receivership to wind-up and non-existence, and I suppose that nobody wants to work down the list if they can stay at the first stages. "<i>the producer may experience production issues affecting the quantity or quality they can produce. Alternatively they may have difficulty selling their product in the market. In such cases delays may occur to your payment. However in all cases you continue to hold title to the product until you're repaid in full with profit. If during this time period you wish to receive the product which you paid for, you can request its delivery to any UK address at no additional cost. "</i> Late payment turns into the chance of no payment after a while. Sell-by dates get nearer. <br />
<br />
With luck, the borrower might organise an option of very cheap sale and lenders might discuss whether they could do better. <a href="http://takestock.com/">Takestock.com</a> allow you to do something similar by opening an account and try to sell surplus food on a free small ad via an 18% escrow service. Takestock's details are further down the page. If 18% for an escrow service sounds high, you can see what other links I have found at the bottom of the page as well. There are loads of them under the heading "selling food from home and on classifieds sites", but none says <i>"we pay near retail price at somewhere like Waitrose for an upmarket brand".</i> They all look a bit clearance-ey. <br />
<br />
Getting back to Primstox, their contract does <br />
- not say that Primestox will use their commission money to pay for deliveries <br />
- not say that Primestox invest in every loan so won't flog duds. I imagine that Primestox do invest in loans at this stage, just to try to balance lenders and borrowers, so they will learn from experience what works. Their low-budget way of working suggests that they don't have equity finance people pushing them to make money fast at all costs. There isn't a staff team and an office and a bunch of bills to pay in the short term; they can think in the long-term. <br />
- not say that Primestox will run an eCommerce site or help any lender who does so, selling surplus food to other investers. I imagine that other investors are a sympathetic market for the one or two who have a tonne of soup on the doorstep. So after a default, in the worst case, you have invested far too much, and more food than you want to eat is plonked on your doorstep..</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>If you have anything to do with catering you might find other uses. If you need contacts in catering, you might use the app that connects restaurants and their surplus food and customers who want cheap deals, you might already have a restaurant contact who might be open to ideas or make a suggestion, but the ones near me are generally bakeries. Anyway, a caterer might offer a dish of the day, or a special offer by the restaurant to bargain-hunters who use the app for that restaurant.<br />
</li>
<li>If you have anything to do with food sales, an idea might come to mind like... - special offer food by a shop counter. Maybe your newsagent would borrow some food, and give you a credit note for 50p per jar sold for you to spend on other newsagent stock.<br />
</li>
<li>If you have nothing to do with food sales, but want to start, Takestock.com membership is free. - free small ad and escrow service that charges you 18% on any offer you accept<br />
</li>
<li>If you plan to eat it the food, freezer space might help -<a href="http://www.for-sale.co.uk/freezer">for-sale.co.uk/freezer</a> includes ads on sites like ebay and gumtree. Local searches are most likely and you might even find a free one on <a href="https://trashnothing.com/">Trashnothing</a>, or join the same site to give some food away. An app called Olio comes-up on search engine results, specifically for giving food to neighbours if they happen to have the same app. Maybe someone will offer you an apple crumble two miles away once you subscribe.<br />
</li>
<li>I don't know much about those food bank collection points that you see in places like supermarkets. There are a few sites on search engines for locating organisations and collection vans that can use food. I suppose that a one-off donor of a freezer-load needs some scale between the nearest collection-point and the agency that can send a van. This list covers foodbanks, who might help. - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/society/datablog/2012/jul/12/food-banks-uk-directory-guardian-readers">theguardian.com/society/datablog/2012/jul/12/food-banks-uk-directory-guardian-readers</a></li>
</ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Background to the Primestox.com company</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are practically no references to the site on other sources. It looks more polished and sane than some sites that do things like bitcoin lending, or my own <a href="http://veganline.com/">shoe shop</a> that you should try, but less referenced from anywhere else. The borrowers are food businesses with web sites linked and which tend to link back.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/09915596/primestox-limited">https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/09915596/primestox-limited</a> is the company. The check-business site would drop a couple of tiny hints from an Equifax report if there was anything to say, but there isn't - the business is too new. The Companies House entry doesn't state much more - just connections to West London from previous employers that are confirmed from the director's Facebook page and choice of software engineer, so the business looks UK-based. Linked-in profiles mention some people related. There are three shareholders and one of them seems busy employed in South Africa; only one is an "officer" on the Companies House form. The postal contact is the first floor above Starbucks in London's Oxford Street, also home to BG Partnership accountants and 23 other companies. <strike>There is no mention on P2Pmoney yet;</strike> I added a post on P2P independent forum, and P2P money have added this site to their list of P2P lending sites, just as one or two food companies have given the site a mention.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Software</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://www.selfstarter.us/"><img alt="http://www.selfstarter.us/" border="0" height="412" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDKa_txk-J9i7SgVimrnYIRwzpbG7odmjbmlczG1p1uUvfTUrpitl4sbN-sF5ri1flp2fzCPxSbcvn7Tueb7H6d3cKGRMnkm1grVgUvroFaOogxoyUdyjPJ5mltec1gHKgQfilIkYKStfm/s640/temp.png" width="640" /></a></div>
The software looks a like crowd-funding software, which can be had for free. I don't know if it is <a href="http://selfstarter.us/">Selfstarter.us</a> but if there is one free open source piece of software, there will probably be others, cheap or free, and this company has used something similar-looking for the new purpose of P2P lending, which is otherwise expensive to get going, I think, for lack of free software. I don't know if this is unusual - it's good to see that it can be done. The company paid <a href="http://www.alexpanichi.com/primestox.html">Alex Panichi, user interface web designer</a> who answered an upmarket <a href="http://archive.is/d92vW">job ad</a> and <i>"worked to improved various steps in the user journeys. The user interface has been enhanced and refined. There has been lots of sketching, wire framing and hundreds of iterations to de-clutter the interface. In fact, the main challenge was to show the most relevant information to the user at each stage"</i> So, £200 an hour for several evenings and weekends doing iterations on a general theme is a few thousand pounds, but not bad.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">blog background</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Written as a hobby and to promote <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">Veganline.com for vegan shoes online - an online vegan shoe shop selling boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK</a></blockquote>
<hr />
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">Selling food from home and on classifieds sites</span></h3>
<hr />
<h3>
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Ebay and the mainstream sites tend not to advertise food, but I have a log-on for Takestock.com that allows selling! The site doesn't have a huge amount on it, with a lot of the guide prices well over supermarket basics prices per kilo. People use it to advertise sales to new customers, I guess, rather than for regular turnover. I hope this list helps borrowers to shift surplus stock and repay their loans, but, when they default and can't make a decent offer for the food. maybe someone else among the lenders can use one of these to get something better or maybe it helps if a borrower has to take delivery of too much food to eat.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://takestock.com/">Takestock.com</a> classifieds - allowed login<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from their advertisers by signing-up and contacting them. It's a classifieds site for food. A photo and often a minimum order is available for each advert once you sign-up; guide prices are cheeky-high except for the odd overdate thing which is low.<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - postcode or place name on each advert but no map or search-by-distance. Most offer to help with delivery. Some have a place name like "London" which helps searching; a lot are in north england or Norfolk for vegetables. There is a box for questions which is a good place to ask if the seller would use your favourite cheap courier such as Parcel2go's UPS shop-to-shop service for up to something like 20kg for not much money. Parcelmonkey are good for courier quotes too.<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to their readers by signing up and advertising - they take the money via their bank account and take ? 18% +VAT if there is no dispute. 8% on fresh food.. The selling page recommends a low minimum order and to offer help with delivery.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<strike>Amazon not yet sure</strike><br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - for example https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scarlett-Mustard/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_5324604031?ie=UTF8&node=5324604031&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Scarlett+%26+Mustard<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery -<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - not yet sure if it's possible. Hermes delivery costs are a problem. I don't see a "sell" tag next to the items on Amazon Groceries either, and if the brand isn't already for sale on Amazon, you have to persuade the site to list it.<br /><br />Amazon is the only classifieds site that comes-up if you search for words like "peas" "biscuits" or "chocolate" on for-sale.co.uk, bar the odd rare add on ebay or gumtree<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
other home retail<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>There are ecommerce add-ons for facebook</b>, I think, which might be free. Maybe Paypal links or something specialised. I don't know if facebook contacts would use them, but they might see the page and offer you cash. An idea for someone with a zillion facebook contacts.</li>
<li>http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5232467 mentions <b>facebook selling groups</b>, a gumtree-like thing that I didn't know about<br />
</li>
<li><b>Leaflet a hundred letterboxes</b> with an explanation and half-price offer. Someone might be intrigued enough just to say hullo to a neighbour. Cheapest paper is from Wilko or supermarket basics. Cheapest ink is a CISS system on a printer or Epson Ecotank.<br />
</li>
<li><b>Fly pitching, pop-up stalls, <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/21/honesty-box-recipe-challenge-creative-cooks-rachel-cooke">honesty boxes</a></b> , <b><a href="https://www.for-sale.co.uk/vending-machine">vending machine</a></b>s... all a bit unfamiliar to buyers I think, who would pass-by to avoid being bothered, or assume the goods second-rate in some way. My aunt - do you know my aunt? - anyway she used to sell potted herbs in a market for the womens' institute. They were cheaper than the garden centre but people were just programmed to buy them from the garden centre. Anyway, if you know my aunt, you are on to something. If you don't know my aunt, you might want to try door-to-door leafleting to advertise an honesty box or a fly-pitch or a ring-the-doorbell-and-ask offer. Ringing other peoples' doorbells doesn't seem worth the hassle to customers, even ignoring the stress to you.<br />
</li>
<li><b>Pop-up restaurants</b>. There is something in this; I am not sure what<br />
</li>
<li><b>Buying from self-employed people like stallholders</b> could be a good habit to get into, in case one of them can suggest something if you are caught with a lot of stock. Easier if they know your face.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<strike>Expirybuy.com classifieds</strike> - didn't send a login<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from their advertisers - it's a paypal system<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - ads say things like "ships to Blackburn"<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - I've signed up, waiting for confirmation by email. No mention of commission yet. Still waiting for confirmation a few days later.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Gumtree<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from their ads - https://www.gumtree.com/search?search_category=all&q=freezer<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - parcel2go or similar<br />
</li>
<li>Place an ad - there is only one food ad and two non-food in this category, but it might be free<br />
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<strike>Merkandi.co.uk classifieds</strike> - want £86 sign-up fee<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - https://merkandi.co.uk/categories/food-beverage/26<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery -<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - same<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<strike>Stockondeals.com</strike>/ - mainly Denmark so crossed out - typically electrical but some food<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy via their site<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery -<br />
</li>
<li>Sell via their site - it's EU and Danish state funded, so the commission might be low<br />
</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Selling to shops and wholesalers</span><br />
</h3>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Approvedfood.co.uk
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - <a href="http://approvedfood.co.uk/">http://approvedfood.co.uk</a>/<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - http://store.approvedfood.co.uk/delivery_charges £6 delivery on £17 minimum order<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - http://store.approvedfood.co.uk/page?name=sell-to-us<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Clearance Wholesale<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - https://www.clearancewholesale.co.uk/contact no web shop - Grimsby cash & carry<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - apply for pallet deals<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - https://www.clearancewholesale.co.uk/sell-my-stock<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.clearancexl.co.uk/">ClearanceXL.co.uk</a> including Swinco.co.uk<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - http://www.clearancexl.co.uk/epages/es136752.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es136752/Categories/%22Food%20%26%20Drink%22<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - http://www.clearancexl.co.uk/epages/es136752.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es136752/Categories/NEW__399_DELIVERY - £5.25 most areas. Free collection by appointment in Sheffield S9<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - https://www.epayments.co.uk/epages/es136752.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es136752/Categories/%22ABOUT%20US%22/Supply_SWINCO has the email address</li>
</ul>
<b>Companyshop.co.uk</b><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> Buy from them - membership scheme offered as a staff perk by some employers.</li>
<li>Delivery - sites around the UK. HQ in Yorkshire</li>
<li>Sell to them - they sell <a href="https://www.companyshop.co.uk/community-shop/how-we-work/what-we-do/">surplus food</a> and write about it - not sure if they pay or get donations</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Eatbig<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - http://www.eatbig.co.uk/shop/ - possibly cheaper per kilo on nuts, but usually expensive
</li>
<li>Delivery - http://www.eatbig.co.uk/delivery/ - £3-£5 or free over £40<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them? - they tend do sell catering-size packs - not sure how to contact<br />
</li>
</ul>
<div>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Factoryfoods<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - no web shop<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - walk-in at Rotherham or Barnsley http://www.factoryfoods.uk/directions/<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - http://www.factoryfoods.uk/sell-to-us/</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Frugalitis</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - https://frugalitis.com/ aka Essential Brands Ltd. Also sell to ex-pats.</li>
<li>Delivery -</li>
<li>Sell to them - ? Phone: +44 116 3440001 Address: Online Division, Celandine Road, Hamilton, Leicester, LE5 1SW. </li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Self Trading<br />
</h4>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Not quite sure what this one is - it once bought a supermarket's stock. Found by googling "short dated food"</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
SOS Wholesale<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy from them - apply for an account or use the Derby cash and carry.<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - apply<br />
</li>
<li>Sell to them - http://www.soswholesale.co.uk/residual-stock-management/<br />
</li>
</ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Unlikely</span><br />
</h3>
This lot are listed to save looking at them again, or just because they looked interesting http://www.londonpopups.com/p/advice-resources.html<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4>
Bargain Outlet<br />
</h4>
</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy - discount shop in Newkey and Weston. Prices from 25p. May be the same as<a href="https://www.facebook.com/affordablefoodscornwall/"> Affordable Foods</a>, who have a franchise system with a branch in north Blurton, Staffordshire.<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - walk in, retail<br />
</li>
<li>Sell - "supermarkets get in touch" .... "buys from supermarkets"<br />
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://bigbarn.co.uk/">Bigbarn.co.uk</a><br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery<br />
</li>
<li>Sell - looking for regular producers; food is sorted by manufacturer<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.grapepip.com/">Grapepip.com</a> - wine only<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy - postcodes not given - prices start about £100 for 12 bottles - no licence or business needed. Buyers and sellers both pay 5% + VAT<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - "Please note that the location of each lot is clearly stated; as a Buyer, it is your responsibility to take note of the location prior to bidding as any subsequent transfer/delivery costs are the liability of the Buyer." Clearly stated to people who understand "Location: Octavian: Duty status: Under bond" on the first ad I looked-at.<br />
</li>
<li>Sell - wine only - 5% + VAT "As long as your wine has been professionally stored in the UK since its original sale/shipment, you can list your wine on GrapePip. Please note, however, you will be required to provide documentation to confirm original purchase and subsequent storage in a UK warehouse of every lot listed on GrapePip. To find out more about how to sell your wine on GrapePip, please go to our <a href="https://www.grapepip.com/p/Private-Vendor-Information">Private Vendor Information Page</a>. If you are a wine merchant looking to sell your wines on GrapePip, please go to our <a href="https://www.grapepip.com/p/Vendor-Information">Trade Vendor Information Page</a>." Winebinends is another wine-only firm that works as a broker - charging 30% commission to find a buyer with only one delivery hop to pay-for. They say that other clearance companies that have warehouses charge 70% and two delivery trips.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.mackenzietrading.co.uk/">Mackenzietrading.co.uk</a> - frozen food clearance wholesale for trade sellers<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy -<span style="font-family: inherit;"> "<span style="color: #6d665f; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.4px;">Essentially we are a frozen food broker: purchasing surplus stock from frozen food manufacturers...."</span></span><br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - can involve storage and repacking in Lancashire<br />
</li>
<li>Sell - <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #6d665f; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.4px;"> "... and selling this onto high street retailers and catering companies"</span></span><br />
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
</div>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Nifties<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy - <a href="https://www.dontwastethetaste.co.uk/">https://www.dontwastethetaste.co.uk</a>/shop aka Nifties, Good for onions at a first look, but the web site is turned-off this February 2018 so you'd have to walk-in.<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - Delivery - https://www.dontwastethetaste.co.uk/ - £7, £2 in Dover or walk-into their Dover shop.<br />
</li>
<li>Sell? - probably not for specialised upmarket products by the look of them<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
The Peoples Supermarket<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="http://thepeoplessupermarket.org/">http://thepeoplessupermarket.org</a>/ - no web ordering - £25 annual membership to work 4 hours a month and get 20% off<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - walk in supermarket in Lambs Conduit Street, North Central London</li>
<li>Sell? - now owned by one wholesaler - history of one-off deals before that - web site statements about avoiding food waste<br />
</li>
</ul>
<div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://toogoodtogo.co.uk/">Toogoodtogo.co.uk</a><br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Buy- app links you to bakeries or restaurants with closing-time bargains.<br />
</li>
<li>Delivery - you need to link to a restaurant near you via the app which works on Ios or Android. Pay the app and go to collect the food.<br />
</li>
<li>Sell - restaurants welcome. If you know a restaurant on the system, they might use the app to try to sell for you on commission. <br />
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Yumbies<br />
</h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>buy -<br />
</li>
<li>delivery -<br />
</li>
<li>sell - looking for regular batch producers not surplus stock - 18% charge<br />
</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
Not trading C...a ran just for the end of 2016 and start of 2017 Foodbargains Discountbargains.co.uk<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-79436529746789100272017-03-21T13:00:00.003+00:002017-10-24T19:57:07.400+01:00Copydex Jointmaster instructions never used<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Maybe nobody has ever used Copydex Jointmaster instructions in the history of the world, but a few people might be interested to know what they said, now that bits of these kits turn-up in junk shops.<br />
Maybe someone can use these images to help put the things back into production if they were ever any good.<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjltssDfrHA0kc1dA5FubKKlpkadrGWJh9ypUkiRwRhXN2CD-7sZpab-zfzFp2ZqIWF74yBInLzLoucZy63FiiE7HqjjZ9m9FauXqVxLrigVnfBSy7mlW-d9e5JTBiUlUcW0PrmJImmgFFf/s1600/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Copydex Jointmaster box - fee inside, detaild plans for making two superb coffee tables" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjltssDfrHA0kc1dA5FubKKlpkadrGWJh9ypUkiRwRhXN2CD-7sZpab-zfzFp2ZqIWF74yBInLzLoucZy63FiiE7HqjjZ9m9FauXqVxLrigVnfBSy7mlW-d9e5JTBiUlUcW0PrmJImmgFFf/s1600/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" title="" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgPuTBme4_Tnd2HrNJHB0Q52ult08AILgh3ZWCGF8OTeipUGu_RQEKwP9MxeMtz-OvwXWiMguxSYYoc6qVE4-aTPRYXP84o07wRqsiF6LnnoNZ9XFcpC7U5EP-AFOnd3zvO7kbuLGNq4u6I/s1600/bits002.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgPuTBme4_Tnd2HrNJHB0Q52ult08AILgh3ZWCGF8OTeipUGu_RQEKwP9MxeMtz-OvwXWiMguxSYYoc6qVE4-aTPRYXP84o07wRqsiF6LnnoNZ9XFcpC7U5EP-AFOnd3zvO7kbuLGNq4u6I/s640/bits002.jpg" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3OwZYuzPbkPtY5g-9vOgiW7qF6QYLMI2WIYwZ5IdlpMrXbZqw3V-Y9WuT8p9HOkrQr5g5ctS9H1TMMnNEV5zQ4Y1iZi2zD_4dr7muWZZ4vrLfjR_UvF6x8TyllUb_A8Seucsg-2R5W7OU/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3OwZYuzPbkPtY5g-9vOgiW7qF6QYLMI2WIYwZ5IdlpMrXbZqw3V-Y9WuT8p9HOkrQr5g5ctS9H1TMMnNEV5zQ4Y1iZi2zD_4dr7muWZZ4vrLfjR_UvF6x8TyllUb_A8Seucsg-2R5W7OU/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGFfeD4FPknPKN9gUynaW35-b14Nkm202wLAghWVjqZ8yD1YmHHZNIiClfYlDWBLmEHy6bcGmJKWLx3dG3Oj7ziEITDs_rp6rijx_TrihqWphIE1t187_mKD9E4qQwwEHQXjh5oaTLJTDp/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGFfeD4FPknPKN9gUynaW35-b14Nkm202wLAghWVjqZ8yD1YmHHZNIiClfYlDWBLmEHy6bcGmJKWLx3dG3Oj7ziEITDs_rp6rijx_TrihqWphIE1t187_mKD9E4qQwwEHQXjh5oaTLJTDp/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjN6oPD7wId0mVCeeMe0rZNHLWLeHPffEE_JWj2S4k2kP8TBQPfRWIYzMPSbCmhrJK0TopUfUUovGCxFTjBXlaN0gVgBsoFmZFNRzECe8fuBKtUWIZfbsRl_av8wAV5CS40eQZcmlQ-1UqD/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjN6oPD7wId0mVCeeMe0rZNHLWLeHPffEE_JWj2S4k2kP8TBQPfRWIYzMPSbCmhrJK0TopUfUUovGCxFTjBXlaN0gVgBsoFmZFNRzECe8fuBKtUWIZfbsRl_av8wAV5CS40eQZcmlQ-1UqD/s1600/temp.jpg" /> </a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirpo2EExJYr-d3F0BQR3WjrA1deq9I7HP2o9JZy2Lc0oLXL_hLwnIyKxWohm8H-pdip8njJcmFzVRrVneOGeCLqW1dgOH7PITDoDfTyNHPxi69icHcYpOQFSwL-H-0bBl_FvpnwIJNoeM6/s1600/04-05.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1131" data-original-width="1600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirpo2EExJYr-d3F0BQR3WjrA1deq9I7HP2o9JZy2Lc0oLXL_hLwnIyKxWohm8H-pdip8njJcmFzVRrVneOGeCLqW1dgOH7PITDoDfTyNHPxi69icHcYpOQFSwL-H-0bBl_FvpnwIJNoeM6/s1600/04-05.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjp5lEtxb2un8OmmQWw16iQpUZQv5aMK2YZK941Ip070FMIUCGSH0slYRWrjo5kO2UzLUgVOSTTEGD1h2oqZcaezNKXRsjJ1Fn-EdrinYHG1pswyFDfQbyCNDV_xDOZ9dLzXs9q9Hs8ClSr/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjp5lEtxb2un8OmmQWw16iQpUZQv5aMK2YZK941Ip070FMIUCGSH0slYRWrjo5kO2UzLUgVOSTTEGD1h2oqZcaezNKXRsjJ1Fn-EdrinYHG1pswyFDfQbyCNDV_xDOZ9dLzXs9q9Hs8ClSr/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkr4_ApTI-9R-5y0bQ8CwWnK05POFPLZ4g2kJijUh9BGMu0cLwzHDXm4J0Q1Kl7xe_yWA7-dwxdrRlqj0RORPa6Br06UMmFKVxCoBiK8g5LHsc4jndQr4IQsd7mQOEBcM0auimemFtqF4Q/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkr4_ApTI-9R-5y0bQ8CwWnK05POFPLZ4g2kJijUh9BGMu0cLwzHDXm4J0Q1Kl7xe_yWA7-dwxdrRlqj0RORPa6Br06UMmFKVxCoBiK8g5LHsc4jndQr4IQsd7mQOEBcM0auimemFtqF4Q/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaHCTBmq6GFJqxYYqcKcg9aCyca9bshfennOJKjwIL6AY_CWKEuKaSAdwQtinuYIdm1d8oe1FWq01TZ-36XqqKR4pqNPvzaUEXTuT8hBttpemcp4xMlUgzVb1z5tDi4Hb154xrrk1t9c3a/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaHCTBmq6GFJqxYYqcKcg9aCyca9bshfennOJKjwIL6AY_CWKEuKaSAdwQtinuYIdm1d8oe1FWq01TZ-36XqqKR4pqNPvzaUEXTuT8hBttpemcp4xMlUgzVb1z5tDi4Hb154xrrk1t9c3a/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJCITkAdk4htyJMWXvUctKfd_lz7z5HaaS0IiCdarObztXoA95TvaD2XR4dxjS1RQhUbYyynigPyHBVpHe14KH4xFa-3zmpYFTRgixzJ2Wmthg_TU5ph8IbRfBD8HaMda9QoaBbQQZZ8wN/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJCITkAdk4htyJMWXvUctKfd_lz7z5HaaS0IiCdarObztXoA95TvaD2XR4dxjS1RQhUbYyynigPyHBVpHe14KH4xFa-3zmpYFTRgixzJ2Wmthg_TU5ph8IbRfBD8HaMda9QoaBbQQZZ8wN/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<hr />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmX5S1dtNK7E456Ntiax7Tl5Hpt2HylV0iW8R_Jw6aVqwjvFIig4psBIGoectOeGjjhmU7FQVy6baaZ5qIr_UvqYnVX82_OFMhb6bYM80GUC0UUaMcMij3XepzI0IILnsIEjHQCcm99l-L/s1600/s-l1600%255B2%255D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="174" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmX5S1dtNK7E456Ntiax7Tl5Hpt2HylV0iW8R_Jw6aVqwjvFIig4psBIGoectOeGjjhmU7FQVy6baaZ5qIr_UvqYnVX82_OFMhb6bYM80GUC0UUaMcMij3XepzI0IILnsIEjHQCcm99l-L/s320/s-l1600%255B2%255D.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFGi_-T7yB9bB44FH98eYSRhTbxWa33p7gsRXc602bvN4MnD-2EzFdkPcLxf8SVOR5_wjK8PQYTbSEv0mB9VYZj4VW8OcdUxWrPUvprG7gbMVO9ZTrX9FnWV-Q1U8a7ERF7kraAOpBKIm7/s1600/s-l1600%255B3%255D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="174" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFGi_-T7yB9bB44FH98eYSRhTbxWa33p7gsRXc602bvN4MnD-2EzFdkPcLxf8SVOR5_wjK8PQYTbSEv0mB9VYZj4VW8OcdUxWrPUvprG7gbMVO9ZTrX9FnWV-Q1U8a7ERF7kraAOpBKIm7/s320/s-l1600%255B3%255D.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
Someone else's <a href="http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/unusual-tools-copydex-jointmaster.html">jointmaster pictures</a> and comment.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCOK8LLmJhwqQovlKkNDHJzwfY3kJ08Ya6HV6LBOvGLrIF59vYmzRFY8hX0A3WrOUUQkmH6LucnghpO8TttkqqS10vOUCgfbR5Am_TIiwjfbikCZFsZEWSqaQ-pb4jG-lh37KKFliAkOt9/s1600/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCOK8LLmJhwqQovlKkNDHJzwfY3kJ08Ya6HV6LBOvGLrIF59vYmzRFY8hX0A3WrOUUQkmH6LucnghpO8TttkqqS10vOUCgfbR5Am_TIiwjfbikCZFsZEWSqaQ-pb4jG-lh37KKFliAkOt9/s320/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" width="320" /></a><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhHBRO4uiffR_7vNfh-psj2yUuJYxyIGImNPtm_s_06lzsqwVrDERrJcyVypWv1r-0Z-7jM5ZPIbqEJjMzQoWQL4YTIFuTUPC4xFd6ircTP2PvSb1T8Yrquj0vOerS3DbhAf0RWlq2u99aZ/s1600/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="251" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhHBRO4uiffR_7vNfh-psj2yUuJYxyIGImNPtm_s_06lzsqwVrDERrJcyVypWv1r-0Z-7jM5ZPIbqEJjMzQoWQL4YTIFuTUPC4xFd6ircTP2PvSb1T8Yrquj0vOerS3DbhAf0RWlq2u99aZ/s320/s-l1600%255B1%255D.jpg" width="320" /></a><br />
<table align="center" style="border-spacing: 0px; width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td><div id="ds_div">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQuUn6_83l3D_hjRsiuRTsTM1hFL7Gt28XZKAHCvgQmvysAbnsQJYWWiwMWeqDv6UgfCsKy0E6IlakajP0udmffI4u1IagGN919m1SD9o612FNfXcw5LjGlcdonxaM61D3x3Ejp61PjuuT/s1600/bits001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="377" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQuUn6_83l3D_hjRsiuRTsTM1hFL7Gt28XZKAHCvgQmvysAbnsQJYWWiwMWeqDv6UgfCsKy0E6IlakajP0udmffI4u1IagGN919m1SD9o612FNfXcw5LjGlcdonxaM61D3x3Ejp61PjuuT/s400/bits001.jpg" width="400" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;">This blog is from someone who has never used a Jointmaster for anything, but does <a hre="http://veganline.com" href="https://www.blogger.com/null" title="vegan boots shoes and belts from Veganline.com, mainly made in the UK">make belts by hand and sells vegan boots belts and shoes at an online shop called Veganline.com</a><br />
<br />
Optical character recognition without the photos:<span class="_Tgc"><br />
</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<hr />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><br />
</span></span></span></span>INDEX TO CONTENTS </span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Adjustable Angle Bracket page # 14 <br />
Base of Jointmaster 15 <br />
Bench Stops 15 <br />
Buffer Pads 4, 15 <br />
Bridle Joint 8 <br />
Butt Joints 90° 5 <br />
Care of Saw 4 <br />
Closed Halving Joint 7 <br />
Depth Stop 14 <br />
Dovetail Joints, Tail 10, 11 <br />
Dovetail Joints, Recess 11, 12 <br />
Dovetail Halving Joints 12 <br />
Dowels 15 <br />
Feather Cut 9 <br />
Half Lap Mitre 10 <br />
Joints, Examples 13 <br />
Lap Joint 5, 6 <br />
Marking Out 16 <br />
Mitre Joint 9 <br />
Open Halving, Joint 5, 6 <br />
Saw Cuts, 90° 5 <br />
Saws, recommended types 4 <br />
Saw Guide Springs 15 <br />
Saw Guide Pillars 16 <br />
Selector Head 14 <br />
Spare Parts List 17 <br />
Tenons, Cutting 5 <br />
Waste Removal 16 <br />
Wedge, use of 14 <br />
Notes for left-handed users 17 </span></span><br />
</span><br />
General hints on sawing and use of Jointmaster <br />
<br />
SAWING </span></span></span></span></div>
</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
<br />
<ul>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">Always allow the saw to follow the guides — do not try to control its direction and do not use too much downward pressure. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">Move the saw backwards and forwards within the guides taking a LIGHT cut on each forward stroke. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">Take particular care not to overstroke and cause the saw to leave the guides, (the less you try to influence the saw the better the results are likely to be). </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">A well sharpened saw requires little or no downward pressure. If, after a few trial cuts, an accurate saw cut is not obtained check the SAW. A saw with blunt or badly set teeth, or a saw with a twisted or bent blade, will never cut squarely and cleanly. If necessary, have the saw teeth sharpened or reset. However, avoid too great a set on the teeth. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">If there is an initial jerkiness in the action of the saw, check the setting of the teeth. Jerky saw action is usually the result of an over coarse set of the teeth and light honing with an oil stone, across the side of the teeth tips, should level these cutting points and provide a steady, easy and clean cutting operation. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">It is advisable to practice easy joints to get the feel of the Jointmaster before tackling major tasks. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">NOTE: Unless the wood being used is straight and has a 90</span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span></span></span> end cross section, completely accurate joints are impossible. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"> <br />
RECOMMENDED SAWS FOR GENERAL USE. </span></span></span></span></span><br />
<ul>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">Either a 12" tenon or back saw with a blade at least 3" deep; or a 22" hand saw with nine teeth per inch having small set on teeth. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">If the blade of the saw is not deep enough to reach required cut, raise workpiece on a flat parallel wooden packing strip (this will also avoid cutting into buffer pad). </span></span></span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"> <br />
GENERAL </span></span></span></span></span><br />
<ul>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">The Jointmaster is designed to take up to 4" x 2" (10cm x 5cm) for 90</span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span></span></span> cuts and up to 2" x 2" (5cm x 5cm) for 45(' cuts. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">Keep jig free from sawdust and check that dowels are fully seated in tapered holes and that buffer pads are flush with or below surface of base. Also check that laminate face of saw guides is adhered firmly in position. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">A range of angles other than 90° and 45</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> can easily be cut by positioning a dowel pin in selected degree marked hole at rear of jig. Normal cutting procedure applies. </span></span></span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"> <br />
HOW TO MAKE JOINTS <br />
Securing the Jointmaster on working surface <br />
The jig can be secured either permanently by screwing it on to the workbench or temporarily by the use of bench stops. Bench stops should be inserted into the holes at the base of the jig. <br />
90° SAW CUTS OPEN HALVING OR LAP JOINT <br />
(90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> BUTT JOINTS, CUTTING OF TENONS ETC). <br />
<br />
Insert dowel in the left hand 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> hole. Place wood against dowel and face of rear saw guide pillars. Saw through wood for 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> cut. <br />
<br />
<br />
1 Place first part piece of wood on right side of jig. Slide adjustable angle bracket forward so that it lightly holds wood against the right side of the guide pillars. Tighten thumbscrew and remove wood. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: blue;">BRIDLE JOINT</span><br />
<br />
The 1st part or male section of the join is made using the adjustable angle bracket and 'C' blade of the selector head in precisely the same way as used for the closed halving joint. With the bridle joint, however, the saw cuts are made on each side of the wood to one-third of the thickness. <br />
<br />
1 Gauge the width of the 2nd part by inserting in the adjustable angle bracket. <br />
2 Mark wood to show one-third depth. <br />
3 Cut the two sides of the recess on the first side of the 1st part, using 'C' selector head blade. <br />
<br />
It will be found helpful after cutting the recess in one side to turn the wood 90° (i.e. onto its side) and then to insert the 'C' selector head blade into the edge of saw cut. The saw is then used to mark the position of the recess on the other side. The wood is turned a further 90' and the second recess is cut to one-third depth. <br />
<br />
4 Remove waste (see page 16). The 2nd part (femalel is made by sawing vertically on the front saw guide pillar. <br />
<br />
5 Having marked the end of the wood to show the one-third depth, position the wood vertically against the front saw guide pillar with the end approximately 1" below the top of the saw guide pillar. <br />
<br />
6 Hold the wood in position with a G-clamp and align under saw (spring will hold saw in suspended position) using a square to ensure 90° against the base of the jig. Note: the saw cut or ken must be on the`waste'side of the line showing the width of the slot to be cut. <br />
<br />
7 Saw to required depth. <br />
<br />
8 Remove waste, initially with a drill and finally with a sharp chisel. <br />
<br />
p #8 <br />
<br />
<span style="color: blue;">MITRE JOINTS </span><br />
<br />
The Jointmaster has unique advantages over the conventional mitre box in that the wood is moved and the saw is always used in the same direction. <br />
<br />
A dowel is inserted in the appropriate 45° hole and the wood to be cut is laid against it and the rear saw pillar, as illustrated. Precise positioning of the cut is ensured by lining the wood up under the saw, held in the suspended position by the saw guide springs Before sawing, it will be found helpful to use the wedge for holding the wood firmly in the required position. A dowel is inserted into any convenient hole with the wedge pressed between it and the wood to be cut (see illustration). <br />
<br />
An alternative method of cutting accurate mitres is to place dowels in each of the two holes immediately in front of the rear saw guide pillar. A large mitre dowel should be placed in the right hole. For opposite cuts, the mitre dowel should be placed in the left hole. An additional dowel is placed in one of the forward 45' holes. When using this method the wood must be cut first at 90°. It is then placed with the 90° cut end into the two adjacent dowels and against the inside of the 451 front dowel. A feather cut is then easily achieved. This method is very helpful when cutting picture frames since the sides of the frame can be cut first at 90° to the exact length required. If a short piece of wood is to be cut, use the central 45° position for exact control. <br />
<br />
p #9 <br />
HALF LAP MITRE <br />
DOVETAIL JOINTS for the tail <br />
<br />
1 Cut an open halving joint on the 1st part, following the instructions on page 5. <br />
1 Cut wood off at 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> <br />
2 Place two dowels in the two adjacent holes immediately in front of the rear saw guide pillar; the large mitre dowel going into the right hand hole and a dowel in the appropriate front 45</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> hole. <br />
3 Place the wood with the open halving joint against the two adjacent dowels with the wood against the 45° dowel. <br />
4 Make a feather cut to produce a 45° angle on the open tenon. <br />
5 For the 2nd part, cut off the wood at a 90° angle <br />
6 Place the wood with the cut 90° end against the two dowels inserted in the adjacent holes in front of the rear saw pillar, and against the appropriate 45' front dowel. <br />
7 Make a feathercut to half the thickness of the wood. <br />
8 Remove waste with a sharp chisel. <br />
<br />
2 Use wedge to mark the angle of the tail on both faces of the wood, as illustrated. It will be found helpful to lay the edge of the wood and the wedge on a flat surface to control the pencil line. <br />
3 Reverse wood and draw the second line (see illustration). <br />
<br />
p #10 <br />
4 To gauge length of tail required, place 2nd part in which the recess is to be cut on the right side of the jig, sliding the adjustable angle bracket forward so that it lightly holds the wood against the right side of the saw guide pillars. <br />
5 Tighten thumbscrew and remove the wood. <br />
6 Insert dowel in the 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span>, hole; and place the selector head on the adjustable angle bracket with the'T blade facing you, blade downwards. <br />
7 Place wood against the 90° dowel, with the cut end against the 'T' face of the selector head. <br />
8 Make saw cut down to the line showing the depth of the tail shoulder. <br />
9 Reverse wood and make a second cut to the depth of the tail shoulder. If several tails are to be made, the depth stop should now be set. <br />
10 Place the or blade of the selector head into the slot in the wedge, and press the blade down so that the top of the blade is just below the blunt end of the wedge. <br />
11 Move the adjustable angle bracket to the front channel. <br />
12 Place the selector head, complete with the fitted wedge, on the adjustable angle bracket — adjusted so that the left side of the wedge is approximately 1/8" from the laminated face of the left front saw guide. <br />
13 Place wood against the front saw guide pillar with the top of the wood in line with the top of the wedge. Use a G-clamp to hold firmly in position and saw out waste down to the shoulder saw cut. Note: the saw cut must be on the waste side of the line. <br />
14 Loosen G-clamp, rotate wood 180°, and re-position to cut second side of tail down to shoulder. <br />
<br />
p #11 <br />
FOR THE RECESS <br />
DOVETAIL HALVING JOINT <br />
<br />
1 Using the dovetail, mark the depth of recess required. <br />
2 Insert dowel in 90</span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span></span></span> hole. Place wedge against 90° dowel and left rear saw guide pillar, with the thick end of the wedge against the saw guide pillar. <br />
3 Place wood against wedge and position so that the saw makes the right hand saw cut. The cut must be made on the waste side of the line showing the recess. <br />
4 Saw down to the depth required for the tail. <br />
5 The left hand saw cut line is now marked on wood, taking care to ensure tight fit. <br />
6 Replace wedge so that the thick end is against the 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> dowel. <br />
7 Move the wood to the right and align under the saw held bythe guide springs to cut the fell hand side of the recess. The saw cut must be made on the waste side of this line. <br />
8 Remove waste from the recess with a chisel. <br />
<br />
1 Make the tail, following instructions on page 10. <br />
2 Cut away half the thickness of the tail using a 90° dowel and rear saw guide pillar. <br />
3 Make recess to required depth, following instructions on this page. <br />
<br />
p #12 <br />
These are some of the joints you can make with the Jointmaster <br />
<br />
Dovetail Halving <br />
<br />
Housing Halved <br />
<br />
Cross Halving <br />
<br />
Mitre with Half Lap <br />
<br />
Corner Halving <br />
<br />
p #13 <br />
General use of Jig and Accesssories <br />
<br />
WEDGE <br />
The wedge provided is cut at an angle of 8;. It is primarily intended for the sawing of dovetails (see page 10). It will also be found useful (together with a packing strip when necessary) for clamping the wood during sawing or when the jig is used as a glueing frame. Any convenient dowel hole (marked 451 can be used. There is, however. an extra dowel hole for clamping purposes on each side of the central rectangular slot between the two saw guide pillars. <br />
<br />
DEPTH STOP <br />
PLASTIC NUT AND GUIDE N. : r <br />
TENON SAW RIB <br />
PLASTIC HEAD <br />
TENON SAW <br />
<br />
SAW GUIDE PILLARS <br />
Usage: When making a number of similar joints, consider-able saving of time can be achieved by using the depth stop. This stop when set and used with a tenon saw (or similar saw with a ribbed back) limits the downward travel of the saw. It is usual to fix the depth stop in the guide column A, furthest from the operator. In this way the depth stop when correctly set will take care of the depth of cut on the hidden face of the work, whilst the operator can ensure parallelism of cut bycontrolling the depth of cut on the "visual" side of the work Note: Care should be taken to make sure that the saw does not miss or override the depth stop. Use only the lightest downward pressure of the saw for best results. The depth stop can be removed without altering the depth setting and replaced to its original pos-ition as required. Take care when replacing the stop to ensure that the depth stop is correctly located. <br />
<br />
Insert the threaded portion of the screw into the groove behind the fixed saw guide strip. Make sure that the plastic spring nut is the correct way round and is resting on top of the guide column. <br />
Adjustment: A) Make a sawcut in a workpiece to the required depth using a tenon saw with a ribbed back edge and leave saw "balance" in the saw cut. B) Rest plastic nut of depth stop on top of guide column and adjust height of the depth stop by rotating the screw in the plastic nut until the top of the cylindrical plastic head just touches the under-side of the saw rib. C) Sway the saw slightly to the right so that it de-presses the plastic springs then insert depth stop into the receiving hole in the guide column behind the saw guide. ID) Allow the saw to regain its normal position and check whether the plastic head of the depth stop rests correctly against the underside of the rib of the saw if not sway the saw to the right to make minor adjustments. E) Make a trial sawcut and check depth. <br />
SELECTOR HEAD AND ADJUSTABLE ANGLE BRACKET The selector head and adjustable angle bracket are used for automatically gauging the width of the 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> joint recess. The selector head is designed to com-pensate for the width of the saw cut (kerf). The com-pensation for the saw cut is dependent upon the type of joint being constructed and the selector head is designed accordingly. <br />
<br />
SELECTOR HEAD <br />
THUMB SCREW <br />
<br />
<br />
(a) <br />
ADJUSTABLE ANGLE BRACKET <br />
<br />
p #14 <br />
For open ended recesses, the selector head is used with the blade marked 'T facing towards you and with the tapered end of the blade downwards. When making closed joints, the selector head is used with the blade marked 'C' towards you again with the tapered end downwards. The adjustable angle bracket slides in a groove on the right side of the saw guide pillar and is held in the required position by a thumbscrew into the base. To remove the adjustable bracket, simply remove the thumbscrew from the jig. There are two positions where the angle bracket can be screwed down. For narrower pieces of wood the bracket should be screwed into the far right screw hole (not dowel hole), as illustrated earlier(a). Forwider pieces of wood the bracket should be turned 180</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> and fixed to the left hand screw hole. The selector head has to then be repositioned as illustration (b). Note: the 'T' blade of the selector head will be found useful as a length stop for short work, i.e. cutting dowels, etc. Normally, the adjustable angle bracket is fitted with the upright towards the saw guide pillar. Additional length can be obtained by re-fitting the adjustable angle bracket in the groove with the upright portion away from the saw guide pillar. <br />
<br />
BUFFER PADS Two reinforced nylon buffer pads are fitted on the sawing line between the two saw guide pillars. These buffer pads are designed to protect the saw if the user inadvertently continues the sawing action when the saw cut has been completed and can be rotated to maintain this protection. They can also be replaced or re-positioned by inserting a probe through the corres-ponding hole in the underside of the base plate. Note: the base plate is diecast from Mazak (a zinc alloy). If the saw should strike the base plate, damage to the saw teeth will be minimal. <br />
<br />
THE DOWELS There are three types of dowels, all illustrated on Page 3 . These fall into the following categories: — Bench stops — Ordinary dowels (tapered) — Mitre dowels (for use with mitre joints). These are precision made from reinforced nylon. The taper on the dowel matches the taper of the holes in the base of the Jointmaster. This self-seating taper ensures an accurate vertical fit but some pressure is advisable to seat the dowel fully. If excessive pressure is used, the dowels can be removed easily by a blunt rod through the corresponding hole in the underside of the base. <br />
<br />
BENCH STOPS Two tapered holes in the front of the base of the jig are provided. By inserting a dowel in each of these holes the Jointmaster can be held firmly against the edge of a bench or table. <br />
<br />
THE BASE The base of the Jointmaster is a precision die casting. The tapered holes into which the dowels are inserted are each marked to show the angle that each will produce. Unlike the traditional mitre box, the Jointmaster allows the saw to be used in the same direction always. The wood is moved to the required angle and therefore control of the saw isalways maintained regardlessof theangle of cut. To maintain the accuracy of the Jointmaster, some care must be taken to remove sawdust as it accumu-lates: the wood needs to be placed accurately against the saw guide pillar, and the dowels seated firmly into their tapered holes. <br />
SAW GUIDE SPRINGS <br />
SAW GUIDE SPRING <br />
<br />
P <br />
SAW GUIDE SPRING RETAINING ENLARGED --:- BOLT CURVE DOWN WHEN FITTING It7 A special reinforced nylon spring is fitted to each of the Right Hand saw guide pillars. These springs assist in holding the saw upright against the saw guide faces. The springs also allow the saw to be suspended above the wood to ensure very accurate positioning of the wood before the saw cut is commenced. Each saw guide spring is held in position by a screw through the side of the saw guide pillar. The springs can be replaced when necessary (see sketch) — the spring leaf should be curved downward. To insert the saw blade between the guide springs and the saw guide face, keep the saw blade vertical and apply a light pressure to the saw against the guides. This will compress the springs and so open a gap allowing the saw to slide downwards. When the guides are new the initial rate of wear may seem excessive but this wear will progressively reduce as the jig becomes "run in". <br />
<br />
SELF TAPPING SCREW <br />
<br />
p #15 <br />
General use of Jig and Accesssories <br />
SAW GUIDE PILLARS The sawing face on the inside of each Left Hand guide pillar is protected by a wear-resistant laminate, and is held in position. Should they eventually wear, however, they can be replaced (see sketch). <br />
SAW GUIDE PILLAR <br />
<br />
LAMINATE <br />
RETAINING BOLT <br />
The saw guide pillars a e designed to fit correctly into the base and are held in position by bolts. Always ensure that these bolts are secure. <br />
MARKING OUT (90° Crosscut Joints, etc.) <br />
<br />
As the jig has automatic setting, it is not usually necessary to mark out, in detail the joint which you are to make apart from: a) The position of the joint along the length of the workpiece — this can be as little as the position of the right hand edge of the joint only. b) The depth of the joint i.e. the depth to which the saw-cuts are to be made. Item (a) above requires only a rule or other simple means of determining a position. <br />
Item (b). The depth of the joint recess can be marked out by measurement or alternatively the position can be marked out using the marking on the 8" wedge. Viz. (1) Select a position on the workpiece adjacent to the joint, and make sure the edges of the workpiece are square. (2) Place the wedge diagonally across the work-piece such that the two lines (shown Nos. 1 and 5 in the diagram) are opposite the edges of the workpiece. THIS IS IMPORTANT <br />
Line 3 will show the point of half thickness. Lines 2 and 4 show the points of a third thickness. Other marking out is described where necessary against the specific joint instructions. It is advisable to mark the joint depth on both opposite faces of the workpiece so that the parallelity of the sawcuts can be checked. <br />
REMOVAL OF WASTE <br />
<br />
SCREWDRIVER <br />
LIMITING SAWCUTS <br />
Method 1. Using a wood chisel. This is the conventional method which is shown in numerous woodworking books and magazines. <br />
Method 2. Make additional sawcuts at approximately 1/4" spacings from the limited sawcuts. Make use of the Depth Stop to be sure not to make the sawcut deeper than the finished joint. Place a screwdriver or similar shaped lever to the bottom of the middle intermediate sawcut (as sketch). Gently lever and remove the cut section. Repeat along the length of Joint. Clean up bottom with a rasp or chisel. Note: When using this method make the section at the ends as thin as possible and slightly under depth. This will help to create a clean edge and avoid breaking away the good material. <br />
</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">p #16 <br />
NOTES FOR LEFT-HANDED USERS. <br />
There are two methods of cutting mitre joints (see section on Mitre Joints, page 9). Left-handed users may prefer to follow the instructions below for some common joints. 45° Mitres <br />
a) Place dowels in position, placing the wider one in the left hole. Place wood in position, holding it firmly against the dowel placed in the front right hand 45' hole. Proceed to saw. Mitre Joints <br />
b) Insert dowel in top right hand corner. Lay wood against dowel and the rear saw pillar. Before sawing, it will be found helpful to use the wedge for holding the wood firmly in the required position. A dowel is inserted into any convenient hole with the wedge pressed between it and the wood to be cut. 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> Cuts Insert dowel in right hand 90° hole. Place wood against dowel and face of rear saw guide pillars. Proceed to saw. Closed halving joints The procedure for closed halving joints is the same as detailed in body of this booklet, except that instead of using the left hand 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> dowel position, the right hand 90</span></span></span><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc">°</span></span></span> should be used, with the wood placed firmly against the rear saw guide pillars and the dowel. <br />
<br />
SPARE PARTS SERVICE PRICE LIST (1st October 1981) FOR U.K. AND EIRE ONLY (Prices for Overseas on request) <br />
Ref. No. JM 201/3 JM 202/3 JM 203/3 JM 204/3 <br />
JM 205/3 JM 206/3 JM 207/3 JM 208/3 JM 209/3 JM 210/3 <br />
JM 211/3 <br />
JM 212/3 <br />
Angle Bracket Buffers Pads Depth Stop 4 Tapered dowels, 2 Bench stops, 1 Mitre dowel Saw Guide Laminate Saw Guide Spring Selector Head Thumbscrew Wedge Saw Guide Pillars complete 1 pillar with laminate & retaining bolt, 1 pillar with spring & retaining bolt. Saw Guide Pillars complete set of 4 Rubber Feet <br />
Price incl. of. VAT 45p each 35p per pack of 4 35p per pack of 2 57p per pack of 7 <br />
35p per pack of 4 • 45p per pack of 4 45p each 35p per pack of 2 35p each <br />
£1.72 per pair <br />
£3.10 (2 of each) £0.07 per pack of 4 <br />
When ordering spare parts please provide a list of your requirements quoting ref. nos. together with clear details of your name and address for use as label and cheque or postal order to the value as listed above. Additional stamps for postage are NOT required. <br />
Please address all correspondence to: Consumer Services Department Copydex Limited, 1 Torquay Street, London W2 5EL <br />
p #17 <br />
(Copydex merged into a larger firm later-on and dropped the Jointmaster product)</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Tiled Table - 4 pages</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfhbHBm3l7mAmFjfZi4VpdElMP76Ds70I3r5yySFFqNWLGgVYz4hAi9BXFf8QTEyO99bCgzqG8sQ5EQOtg3TY8x62u_tFYdfwr8epE4K3xeoAVGFUztflnt3Zl_oPqSDb3zVzS5l1ZoC-J/s1600/tiled-table001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfhbHBm3l7mAmFjfZi4VpdElMP76Ds70I3r5yySFFqNWLGgVYz4hAi9BXFf8QTEyO99bCgzqG8sQ5EQOtg3TY8x62u_tFYdfwr8epE4K3xeoAVGFUztflnt3Zl_oPqSDb3zVzS5l1ZoC-J/s1600/tiled-table001.jpg" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPpgyXxXndJ8D0ocb9IvGztg6I0Xjf0hNpBAyCC3-7ZMRug9NFiZ-r1iUSdTowUQVSiz8W_1T7VItsaXX_A98rPCTNy_jD0iS8j77V0FHAWTxsERVJFZdzybDw0YYgwX8wLu0ltw3uknur/s1600/tiled-table002.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPpgyXxXndJ8D0ocb9IvGztg6I0Xjf0hNpBAyCC3-7ZMRug9NFiZ-r1iUSdTowUQVSiz8W_1T7VItsaXX_A98rPCTNy_jD0iS8j77V0FHAWTxsERVJFZdzybDw0YYgwX8wLu0ltw3uknur/s640/tiled-table002.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcTAjj9-C0ld666nfU0bzK7YiKfgqAfHeEw9sW2o9kJr3RP2tTEjWgX2C9_d5vz0Hh08fJKRlqvV6d4ef3DVgCqSkXp5JchxmY3kHwIe3XHhXY79PPvKptoD7NA_gBqFgX3e-LBrUrHQNk/s1600/tiled-table004.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcTAjj9-C0ld666nfU0bzK7YiKfgqAfHeEw9sW2o9kJr3RP2tTEjWgX2C9_d5vz0Hh08fJKRlqvV6d4ef3DVgCqSkXp5JchxmY3kHwIe3XHhXY79PPvKptoD7NA_gBqFgX3e-LBrUrHQNk/s640/tiled-table004.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpjBeavaiS0wiNE9G-6qn_udYU9LMnY1CPD4qff81wJIBm60Y6jS2_LCWc5tsTNghj5LpAxn1BUff7M96sEzu_WI48rh3-V7lB-Gm_gmXuCqDcnvbyjYd3B9UvM-VFuEC6lQDGGSO9k0z7/s1600/tiled-table003.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpjBeavaiS0wiNE9G-6qn_udYU9LMnY1CPD4qff81wJIBm60Y6jS2_LCWc5tsTNghj5LpAxn1BUff7M96sEzu_WI48rh3-V7lB-Gm_gmXuCqDcnvbyjYd3B9UvM-VFuEC6lQDGGSO9k0z7/s640/tiled-table003.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Matching Tables - 4 pages</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWLl7sZtc-eEXCQ_xa406HuIZK_jVtMarfcR82b9D9XOmxDo3ncQAtL_LCv3uSaUJhx4AJA6y3ZkAKBUrymt9nR68JJnIKFQ2p85kaKWYOC_-KAJvZLcBkRGj-NVoHKEzz3YmCvWPttblI/s1600/matching-tables001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWLl7sZtc-eEXCQ_xa406HuIZK_jVtMarfcR82b9D9XOmxDo3ncQAtL_LCv3uSaUJhx4AJA6y3ZkAKBUrymt9nR68JJnIKFQ2p85kaKWYOC_-KAJvZLcBkRGj-NVoHKEzz3YmCvWPttblI/s640/matching-tables001.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicr2dAipyquT8b1xyfo4tCXt2gIhyphenhyphenAQGGBLOjcfXDS7Tr7wQk1F1GyBZHi161fJwB-2VeM5vTHqpdS3cUizqtwsG88qsKzYHG2Q6uADviJ9PCtptIw6RpMGSUoYNTNXPkWSFMYlQBDAPCl/s1600/matching-tables002.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicr2dAipyquT8b1xyfo4tCXt2gIhyphenhyphenAQGGBLOjcfXDS7Tr7wQk1F1GyBZHi161fJwB-2VeM5vTHqpdS3cUizqtwsG88qsKzYHG2Q6uADviJ9PCtptIw6RpMGSUoYNTNXPkWSFMYlQBDAPCl/s640/matching-tables002.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjotA-scCubpBw90qbtUcBwa5EQbnJeu2fV1T7RC4U2w_OpXl-DOPzPmplUoaTjziu7Bj2L9kbEk9pagZhN0Df_AnDOt2UpMr3wXh0AAir7gZPNkduH7fJws4eK1NAVfq8Efn3yuWzTAM7G/s1600/matching-tables003.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjotA-scCubpBw90qbtUcBwa5EQbnJeu2fV1T7RC4U2w_OpXl-DOPzPmplUoaTjziu7Bj2L9kbEk9pagZhN0Df_AnDOt2UpMr3wXh0AAir7gZPNkduH7fJws4eK1NAVfq8Efn3yuWzTAM7G/s1600/matching-tables003.jpg" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2Cwxw2Y336VRDNImYh4lGbmxIukZ6i40Z970SFNTdYHL1VN0JQaPaJ3jSc68bczFNahoh5YoqPYhVa0FMl-7Bxdo0Y4c781MuGPzFzqFG2CUvKTFxb2zmhA9dBIDyo_PMAplCqWy87oIo/s1600/matching-tables004.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2Cwxw2Y336VRDNImYh4lGbmxIukZ6i40Z970SFNTdYHL1VN0JQaPaJ3jSc68bczFNahoh5YoqPYhVa0FMl-7Bxdo0Y4c781MuGPzFzqFG2CUvKTFxb2zmhA9dBIDyo_PMAplCqWy87oIo/s1600/matching-tables004.jpg" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Shelf Unit - 4 pages</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWnBC2gToWy7ngsQdWstOzGSpc5fsAH94v4lXvk0SDCeZNtvvSXRvDPOHGkWg8oeFSBG5gQnpUTxygC_ibvXk9FqetpEH5Xg_MeQR2BD2mlYcjThq_lsD2e6wvWW3mYtwJ_bn0Rj9Fv4Kj/s1600/shelf-unit001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWnBC2gToWy7ngsQdWstOzGSpc5fsAH94v4lXvk0SDCeZNtvvSXRvDPOHGkWg8oeFSBG5gQnpUTxygC_ibvXk9FqetpEH5Xg_MeQR2BD2mlYcjThq_lsD2e6wvWW3mYtwJ_bn0Rj9Fv4Kj/s640/shelf-unit001.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhIABdGyl5N_srxsJntRv14Qc5dUKRV6-dVOBDecEjGOrbusg9vBC1MAhQpdM1Wv83h0qMBCMODsD11cM-Armi0gLKntg3YWklRqy1PxeWyMTrz7NumK1f5Mi2RcWjK_kCUOzDUwE_UViJH/s1600/shelf-unit003.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhIABdGyl5N_srxsJntRv14Qc5dUKRV6-dVOBDecEjGOrbusg9vBC1MAhQpdM1Wv83h0qMBCMODsD11cM-Armi0gLKntg3YWklRqy1PxeWyMTrz7NumK1f5Mi2RcWjK_kCUOzDUwE_UViJH/s640/shelf-unit003.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjRgsym5ExDl7xnrunWlK7YLucS3gCQhjTDuLsDZ77_Yy1gknYrUkXxWouxgBJageOs-C8EjoRYBi5RYqzaeuHLWlpicQ0Mj5HCWdni3WHxqAgSHXKS8SU66Ycj7zxgonS6tMDOJtTOpIvb/s1600/shelf-unit004.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjRgsym5ExDl7xnrunWlK7YLucS3gCQhjTDuLsDZ77_Yy1gknYrUkXxWouxgBJageOs-C8EjoRYBi5RYqzaeuHLWlpicQ0Mj5HCWdni3WHxqAgSHXKS8SU66Ycj7zxgonS6tMDOJtTOpIvb/s640/shelf-unit004.jpg" width="640" /></a></span></span></span></span></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: "arial"; font-size: medium;"><span class="_Tgc"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgVNwA7LFBnyqGPMSVO6RBTWz5gUVhWVBw8LqH02g8tdojch2U_EQblqA_SRjnc1n2eDJGaMkE2Qo_1T0C1H0qKvJoCowNRR9pbCu_VNt_THdZyn0RfN_z_LqNlxF3YfOLLMpNLsY9_5YDG/s1600/shelf-unit005.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="604" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgVNwA7LFBnyqGPMSVO6RBTWz5gUVhWVBw8LqH02g8tdojch2U_EQblqA_SRjnc1n2eDJGaMkE2Qo_1T0C1H0qKvJoCowNRR9pbCu_VNt_THdZyn0RfN_z_LqNlxF3YfOLLMpNLsY9_5YDG/s640/shelf-unit005.jpg" width="640" /> </a></span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
Blogged to promote <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Tredair-sole boots with vegan microfibre tops, belts made to order from 2mm microfibre, shoes and more">Veganline.com - an online vegan shoe shop selling vegan boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK</a></div>
<span id="closeHtml"></span> </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com7tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-25362507744418865622017-02-28T16:55:00.010+00:002018-10-21T10:22:43.697+01:001980s recession<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html" title="The British economic crisis: its past and future. Front Cover. Keith Smith. Penguin Books, 1984 - Business & Economics - 256 pages, ISBN 9780140225020">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1980s recession caused by deliberate government policy </span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
The 1984 Begg textbook says what caused the 1980s recession. It was caused by a policy of raising the value of the pound by tinkering with interest rates. As a result, export industries had to close. Begg was a teacher at Oxford Uni when he wrote his first textbook, and recent politicians like a prime minister and a shadow chancellor in the mid 20-teens were students on a PPE course there in the 80s, but said very little about the problem in the teens. As though they didn't know. The Bank of England had to explain to a treasury select committee how the system worked; a report with a neat flow diagram. The bottom line of arrows shows the rate of interest - that government can influence - effecting import prices. In other words it effects whether a lot of UK manufacturing has to close because of a deliberate government policy.<br />
<br />
I have a long blog post about being on a college economics course at the time, and imagined that someone might read it and simply not know what the economic problem was, so I started writing what came into my head, but for a proper read you could skip this and try <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> book quoted in full on another post.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEik3jFKxd39eb4NN3WHXkhKjbwWfuPHvF4bualTspnqXqTK1I3k5xuAM2mR3CVIS1bJ2rjclpWpH4kdOhQLxXhLIfyWciQYO1w4mzZDddPsgATNahUmwMfAvVKCZe_ys2Ck7ZnGbdBJ6zyb/s1600/monetary-policy-from_int_inf2%255B1%255D.gif" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEik3jFKxd39eb4NN3WHXkhKjbwWfuPHvF4bualTspnqXqTK1I3k5xuAM2mR3CVIS1bJ2rjclpWpH4kdOhQLxXhLIfyWciQYO1w4mzZDddPsgATNahUmwMfAvVKCZe_ys2Ck7ZnGbdBJ6zyb/s400/monetary-policy-from_int_inf2%255B1%255D.gif" width="400" /></a><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<br />
I guess something about the teaching of compact economics degree courses in 1984-7 left students like myself unaware of other students' views or anything like that - views roughly suggested by opinion polls, or views of people who wrote books, but we were rather sure of our own views alongside the crushing hopelessness of most economics teaching. I was rather sure on both points anyway, and the recent prime minister and shadow chancellor seemed un-troubled by facts. Like them, I had been to posh school with loads of essay-writing about things like the origin of the first world war and thought that I could have sorted it in a few sides of A4. The difficulty was that people with different views - people like Dave at Oxford - were just as confident. Boris Johnson is reported as writing two essays to himself, pro and anti EU, in order to help him decide on the strength of his own prose.<br />
<i><br />
The Times</i>, my dad's old employer, reported that everything was wonderful in the UK and that is the view that's now recorded on TV and among pundits. Recent prime ministers, historians and such were at college at the time - they are in their early fifties now - and seem to believe that some kind of painful but useful reform happened in the 1980s. That's self-delusion based on ignorance and bad newspapers. Unemployment was caused by a Kamakazee economic policy that continued until 2009 with support from the three main Westminster parties.<br />
<br />
My dad sold advertising space for a few years for <i>The Times</i> and <i>The Observer</i> in the 1950s - he was the same age as Professor Fishman. Mum and dad kept-up the newspaper subscriptions for ever. I got to know the newspaper habit of putting the paragraphs in order of importance: the proprietor's view at the top, and the contrary facts at the bottom of an article or said in a different way. <i>The Times</i> also noted graduate unemployment in a different way. It said that nearly all graduates from Trinity College Dublin had to emmigrate about that time, even though things were going so well. I remember the article, with a formal graduation picture - like a victorian sports team in dressing gowns - and a list of how few of the graduates remained in Ireland to find work. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pound#Breaking_the_link_with_sterling">Ireland had a cheaper currency from 1979</a> so it missed the worst of the Thatcher recession, but shared the problem of trying to sell to a dole queue in the UK; everything in the UK was not wonderful. Even Micheal Gove, the politician, had a <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-live-osborne-punishment-budget-farage-flotilla-thames?page=with:block-5761aa3ee4b04ceead988c83#block-5761aa3ee4b04ceead988c83">dad who wound-down a business in the early 80s but the Micheal Gove version of events is fiddled</a>. The link states one view, from Gove's dad, and the italics state another view, from Gove's speech reported in the Daily Telegraph. <br />
<i><br />Dry political arguments about the economic risks and benefits of leaving the EU suddenly became intensely personal. Speaking before a live audience Michael Gove revealed how he
had witnessed first-hand the “misery” caused by Brussels’ bureaucrats
after their policies led to the closure of his adopted father’s family
business. Visibly moved he told how he had watched his father’s fish
merchant business “going to the wall” as a result of the EU’s common
fisheries policy.</i><br />
<i>
</i><i>The Aberdeen-based business had been founded by Mr Gove’s grandfather, who in turn passed it on to his father Ernest.</i><br />
<i>
</i><i>EE Gove and Sons was a thriving concern, employing 20 people
to process and smoke fish from the North Sea, including cod and
whiting. But in the early 1980s it went under and was sold as a
result, says Mr Gove, of the European common fisheries policy (CFP),
which gave access to fishing grounds to boats from other countries and
imposed quotas on British fishermen.</i><br />
<i>
</i><i>Ernest Gove, 79, and his wife Christine, 77, still live in
the same neat, three-bedroom, granite semi-detached house in Aberdeen
where the MP was brought up.</i><br />
<i>
</i><i>Mrs Gove, a former lab assistant at Aberdeen University, was
tending her front lawn in the sunshine, but said they had strict
instructions from their son not to talk to the media. She did however say there was nothing left of the business
in a harbour that has been constantly redeveloped since oil first boomed
in the city in the 1970s.</i><br />
<br />
Stories like that were everywhere except that EU fisheries policies hadn't been invented; UK government interest rates had hiked-up the value of the pound and killed-off every concievable type of business. Everybody seemed to have redundant or out-of-business parents.<i><br />
<br />
</i><br />
<i>The Times</i>' proprietor-top-of-the-page view is the one most recorded, for example in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Sandbrook">Daniel Sandford;s TV History "The 80s"</a> Maybe he read <i>The Times</i> as well. Early 80s unemployment, in this history, was caused by privatisation of a big public sector, but that doesn't make sense except to people who believe blatently untrue things in economics text books written on a pattern set in the cold war. According to the textbooks, the UK was half way to East Europe in the share of GDP controlled by the <i>"Command Economy"</i>. It follows, to Daniel Sandford, who studied history at a similar university further south about that time, that 80s unemployment was a bit like the East German unemployment that followed unification and attempts to close or reform firms like Skoda in East Germany. If you asked someone who was in a country like East Germany after unification, they'd probably recognise the process far better than anyone in the UK in the 1980s who just experienced a fiddled exchange rate, a flood of imports that closed all kinds of industry, and fiddles to reduce services we'd paid-for in taxes.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: #cc0000;"><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">INTRODUCTION: COLD WAR ECONOMISTS - FIGURE 1-4</span></b></span><b><br />
</b></span><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6J5X3Cy8aPvN1ndZKsOQS47MHTIcWPI6kbkXdGPeu2B-am2WqxTT3TMaw4OlUORGvC01copAdudI5tQoVISGnjOnslc7rPyJHcyKT7T7lrhpULtSFxXHKOjBnUCd2AWLYyeLzqfibrkvl/s1600/mixed-economies.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Degrees of Market Orientation:: the role of the market in allocating resources differs vastly between countries. At one extreme, in the command economy, resources are allocated by central government planning. At the other extreme, in a free market economy, there is virtually no government regulation of the production, consumption and exchange of goods. In between lies the mixed economy where market forces play a large role but the government intervenes extensively." border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6J5X3Cy8aPvN1ndZKsOQS47MHTIcWPI6kbkXdGPeu2B-am2WqxTT3TMaw4OlUORGvC01copAdudI5tQoVISGnjOnslc7rPyJHcyKT7T7lrhpULtSFxXHKOjBnUCd2AWLYyeLzqfibrkvl/s320/mixed-economies.jpg" title="" width="306" /></a>This is a strange point worth repeating. Textbooks like Samuelson contrast the market economies like the US with the state-run economies like the Soviet bloc at the time. What's stated is that the UK is half way between the two. Stated in a strangely blatent and serious way for such a misleading point. I googled <i>"cold war economics teaching"</i> to see whether this has changed now, and <a href="http://www.webcitation.org/6l9yWTjwO">the first link that came-up</a> suggests not; words like <i>"social insurance"</i> or <i>"Social Democratic Party"</i> would not fit the definition <i>"Socialism is an economic system that features public (government) ownership and production of goods and services"</i>.<br />
<br />
<br />
The scan here is from my 1984 Begg textbook, written by a teacher at Oxford Uni where they have another short course in Economics, as part of the PPE degree done by so many wannabe politicians from David Cameron to Ed Balls. They both probably stared at exactly the same diagram. A few even went to ordinary colleges like Keele where Claire Short and Priti Patel studied, and looked at the same diagram or something just as misleading.<br />
<br />
There are no numbers next to the diagram, but if you take it as a measure of the percentage of GDP controlled by the state - say 50% in the UK at the time - then the picture has a false simplicity to it. Since the 1980s, much more work is contracted-out but public-funded. So still public sector in a way. Other bits are more regulated, like banking, but still private sector in a way. When I started at Keele, National Express Coaches was used to a monopoly on long routes given in hope that they would return the favour by running short routes as some kind of back-room deal. I'd bought tickets on a rival - the tiny Stagecoach service from London to Scotland - but they were small and new and obviously private. Later-on, the roles were reversed. Stagecoach had a skill at predatory under-pricing that far out-gunned the ability of rival bus commpanies or the monopolies and mergers commission, so they could just take-over a 'hood like gangsters. They were specially interested in bus companies that owned valuable bus stations, to be sold after take-over. In a way, the monopoly power transferred to them and they became something a bit like the public sector in the sense of being the establishment or the big organisation with unfair power.<br />
<br />
There are other services, called public sector on the statistics, that would have to be re-invented if the public sector didn't so them like compulsory insurance for sickness and unemployment. Every special case bamboozles everyone who isn't much intersted in it, and those who study the subject are not helped by the diagram above,<br />
<br />
If you have a look at .gov.uk and the names of the ministries, it's clear that UK government is a kind of big insurance company providing services that we might use at some points in our lives but not at others. There was no ministry of economic command. There was no slice in the spending pie-chart for <i>"propping-up three million pointless jobs in nationalised industries to close in the early 80s"</i>. There is no Ministry of Economic Command to spend that budget. Simply not. </div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<br />
<a href="http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_2010UKbt_16bc1n#ukgs302">This is a breakdown of spending in 2010</a><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5DfqdxgQLwrhlcoesa6VGvJxiCTI4iNwAp8694pvqe0l5wQOmElF20_IQ4P9S8eC11_rqFfl9R2nJMnxpWSMZ5PV3n89OEDsfOmAw7HsuFsON9D2JT1Gwj3D5p_WcTgicXQRYjG71Wo5s/s1600/temp.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="171" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5DfqdxgQLwrhlcoesa6VGvJxiCTI4iNwAp8694pvqe0l5wQOmElF20_IQ4P9S8eC11_rqFfl9R2nJMnxpWSMZ5PV3n89OEDsfOmAw7HsuFsON9D2JT1Gwj3D5p_WcTgicXQRYjG71Wo5s/s400/temp.png" width="400" /></a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_1980UKbt_16bc1n#ukgs302">This is a breakdown of spending in 1980</a><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjY1wMYOeBnOD7Bk21201WPHdxVzc0tIf30tDC5tKN_xYvdTPmBcbmGvwaAW_7WdwDxjwdyroa9NgLrc85vJew4hoGt60BGAKJXAAjhgjtKXFLpcV9XDMShPbCa8yIkK6mKS7ckodjZczqG/s1600/temp.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="171" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjY1wMYOeBnOD7Bk21201WPHdxVzc0tIf30tDC5tKN_xYvdTPmBcbmGvwaAW_7WdwDxjwdyroa9NgLrc85vJew4hoGt60BGAKJXAAjhgjtKXFLpcV9XDMShPbCa8yIkK6mKS7ckodjZczqG/s400/temp.png" width="400" /></a><br />
<br />
As a big insurance company, the state can be more efficient than a private one, and it can also be more inefficient. This is one of the topics that economically-minded people discuss and it's a pity that economcis courses like this didn't promote discussion and evidence either way.<br />
<br />
A big public sector GDP can include a large number of payments made by a computer with few staff involved, paying a universal benefit like Child Benefit. The cost can be far lower than some private sector pension scheme like the one my dad tried to work for, which provided some pretty awful annuity deals to fund high sales & admin costs, and wouldn't be able to quote for providing child benefit or accident and emergency services, nor any services like school-fee schemes for the parents who can't pay.<br />
<br />
One difference between then and now is the proportion of taxes spent on debt repayment. In these area, the Thatcher government spent more than before. Most borrowers would seek the lowest rate at which to pay interest. I think Disreali was good at finding good advisors and someone knocked-up the idea of a government bond for him - or something like that (it's a long time since history O-level). Economists after 1979 added another constraint when advising governments: if the interest rate can be tweaked-up a little higher than other similar interest rates around the world, funds will tend to flood-in and raise the value of the pound, followed by cheap imports flooding-in and reducing inflation. The treatment has side-effects: higher public debt and demoralised survivers among a bust UK manufacturing industry, because manufacturers deal with international trade much more than the people who commentate like broadcasters and ministers and newspaper owners.<br />
<br />
An obvious difference between the 1980s and 20-teens is the amount of people on the dole. Broadly, a policy that puts people out of work will cost a lot in benefits, government schemes, and quite likely other services as well, so a government that is remembered for cutting subsidies to state industries is in fact one that increased demand for public services like benefits.<br />
<br />
A third difference is that there are pieces of the public sector that seemed a bit odd, even at the time, but the difference is not clear-cut. Nowadays the fiddles or the problems are PFI hospital buildings, or the the Palace of Westminster that funds staff to do pagentry but not mend the roof, or the nationalised banks. In the 1980s there were another lot, but not so very different. A strange example was that only gas and electricity boards were allowed to sell new cookers. You queued-up at their show-rooms and filled-in triplicate form to order one for you, then they would book one of their own qualified staff to plug it in when it finally arrived. Nowadays the system has evolved: you go to a private shop, they order a cooker, and when it arrives you can get any Corgi-registered gas plumber to plug it in.<br />
<br />
The oddest thing then was a kind of trade war going-on between European countries subsidising over-capacity in their steel industries in kind of game, to find out which one would stop first, close steel works, and make the capacity in other countries more profitable. EU rules wouldn't alloow it now. Lastly, councils and ministries tended to own the organisations that provided services like schools and hospitals in a more clear-cut way than now, so more of GDP counted as public sector. <a href="http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1900_2010UKp_16c1li011lcn_F0t_UK_Public_Spending_As_Percent_Of_GDP">Even so, the proportion of GDP that counts as public in the stats is still high</a>; there was no wave of privatisations big enough to cause 1980s unempoyment.<br />
<br />
The Begg course textbook comes back to a similar point on other pages, but in a more detailed and rather opposite way. It says that UK government makes a lot of transfer payments to provide a lot of public services, rather than being half way to a command economy as on the scale above. It even quotes words like "national insurance". The textbook is funny like that; it puts conflicting points of view on different pages, like an encyclopedia.<br />
<br />
Talking of privatisation as a cause of three million people being unemployed, there were more jobs on state-owned or council-owned payrolls in 1979, or payrolls that were private but felt a bit like state. No one individual knows the status of all the organisations like the Welsh Water Authority of the Potato Marketing Board, the National Lottery, the BBC, The Cheese Bureau or Universities, that tend to feel a bit like the public sector even if they're private and vica versa. Even ministers and journalists don't know: they tend to assume that it's all part of government under the <i>Merit Good</i> heading.<br />
<br />
Anyway, there were not three million less jobs on taxpayer-funded payrolls in 1987 than 1979. I don't know how to research this but it seems too straightforward to be worth researching. Some of these jobs were transferred to privately-owned empoloyers who employed fewer people to do the same thing, One example is the electicity board shops that used to have a monopoly on selling new cookers, just as British Gas and elictricity boards had a monopoly on plugging them in. It was daft and jobs had to be lost, but someone still had to sell cookers one way or another, and there is still a Corgi licencing scheme to replace the old British Gas monopoly on plugging-in a gas cooker. Much of what changed was a rather fuedal way in which government worked, and made itself unpopular, by insisting that people outside of any state payroll could not plug-in a cooker, but the change was not quick and consisted of large public organisations becoming a state regulator and a large private organisation. There was a state-owned railway, but the Beeching cuts had already happened and a lot of the infrastructure - now Network Rail - remains in state hands after a brief attempt to be Railtrack PLC. I think the National Grid remains nationalised, and, as with electricity supply, the private part co-exists.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Nationalised and slightly nationalised industry in 1979 - reminiscence</span> </h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<br />
My recollections of 1970s nationalised industry don't fit the story that privatisation caused 1980s unemployment. Nowhere near. Which is no reason not to write some reminiscences about large organisations trying to do things. so skip down a paragraph if you want to read the next thing. I write this because I enjoy reminiscence.<br />
<br />
Before the 1980s, as now, employers like banks or steel works or the odd car manufacturer had swung in or out of public ownership for reasons of policy or panic, but they behaved in fairly similar ways whoever owned the shares. The Chrysler Avenger was just as bad a car as the Morris Marina. Other firms in the private sector had tended to merge rather than invest. There was a trend towards the big and corporate and the nationalised and the council-run, which both political parties seemed to like and encourage.<br />
<br />
Car manufacturing is often quoted as an example of a nationalised industry at the time because everybody looked at cars on the street and even tried to mend cars on the street because the factories were new to cheap mass-production as were buyers, and the result was cars that fell apart. Less of the car industry was nationalised than current high street banks and, like them, it had other problems that had caused state intervention as a kind of short-term emergency treatment for the last remaining UK-owned conglomerate. The real state-run attempts to make cars were in East Europe and included a couple of models from Trabant, some Skodas and a car known in Poland that I'm told was known as "The Sock" for its shape and smell. Emmissions laws prevented The Sock and most of the others from being offered for sale in the UK. A delux model of the Trabant was offered for a while before emissions laws caught-up with it and sales ceased. The Skoda did OK, but by the late 70s most Eastern-bloc manufacturers tried buying-in designs from Fiat instead, and using thicker steel so they didn't rust-through like my brother's Italian fiat 600. <br />
<br />
UK telephones were an odd bit of industry. I saw on TV that the Post Office controlled a little empire of other parts of the economy, including telephones, land, and a catering college, but not a lot of expertise in the new generation of digital phone systems. There was a digital scheme called a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_X_%28telephony%29">System X telephone exchange</a>, but that was considered special. The organisation charged £15 a month or so for a landline, but that's the odd bit. It still does, and people still volunteer to pay that kind of amount to the mobile operators too instead of using pay as you go. And if someone reading this knows about the phone industry, I gues they'd say that a lot of low-tec analog infrastructure still exists; there were not a million people made redundant by the privatisation of British Telecom, how ever a good a video it makes on a TV history. <br />
<br />
UK car manufacturers still tried making their own models, but had run-out of petrol for the expensive bits of research and development and run-out of nous for having those ideas on the cheap as smaller firms sometimes do. They were like a 70s pomp rick group attempting the difficult 3rd LP. I saw somewhere the there is a firm that can make engines for Foumala 1 cars by cutting moulds out of very hard wood, and do it for some high number of thousands of pounds, but to develop an engine that scores well on comparison charts and avoids bad reputation costs millions - so much that manufacturers now club together to do it. In those days the conventional wisdom was to merge-together rather than club-together. Why one figure has so many more naughts on it than the other is a mystery and good subject for economists. Obviously a good result for something like petrol consumption or starting ability involves a lot of trial and error, but are the trial and error tream as good at nous and innovation as the people at Formula 1? Nobody knows.<br />
<br />
Jeremy Clarkson's brief interview with the designer of the Algro car went something like "do you like it?" "no" "was it a result of too many committee meetings?" "yes" "Do you want to drive it for the video?" "no". 1970s cars were OK for steering because they all shared a supplier for that, and somehow they did well on the new sheet metal chassis-less chassis, but other bits of research and development were kept in-house which meant not being done at all because of the cost. The Allegro was made in Belgium while the Marina and MG were made in the UK, but I guess they were all low in comparison charts for things like <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>engines good enough to start in cold weather & score well on comparison charts, </li>
<li>undercoat that stopped the chassis-less monocoque chassis rusting through </li>
<li>gear boxes that you would want to use as a sales rep driving every day </li>
</ul>
(sales reps were a post war pointless industry; their cars counted as a business expense so most brand new cars sold to sales reps and then dads would buy them a year or two later) <br />
<br />
When you look at the dashboard of a 70s car - there is a Chyrsler Avenger in the National Motor Museum but few 70s cars survive in the wild - you see very scary silver paint and printed wood which scream <i>"fake"</i>. (I guess: I have walked past that Chrysler Avenger but don't remember the dashboard.) If the car dashboards could talk they would say <i>"I am a fake. You are a fake for choosing to buy me. Why don't we both just drive off beachy-head in a suicide pact together?"</i> A slush-moulding technique allowed very detailed fake sewing to be moulded into plastic door panels as well, just to make fakery worse. Technology was used as the Blair governement later used technology for PR. And the cars had trouble starting in the morning. You had to fiddle with the choke on my parent's Ford Cortina while the evil engine went "he he he he he. HA HA HA HA HA. he he he he he". <br />
<br />
There is a web site somewhere that publishes how many cars or a type survive over time. I haven't got the link but it's good material for economists to prove what was obvious in the 1980s: some cars were slightly worse than others but not much worse.<br />
<br />
Something about the prople chosen to design new cars and car factories, their budgets or the fragmentation of some of their budgets and combinations of others, and the people who bought the cars and decided where the market went, and the structure of the pension and share-buying industry that provided only short-term investment - something was bad for research and development. I suppose you could say the same for political parties' relationships with votors, or tabloids relationships with their readers, then and now.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<Digression on colleges><br />
Digressing from cars to colleges for a second, there was a fault with the customers. They were new to car-buying. A lot were sales reps looking for status in the car park. They looked for something classy, and the ranges of cars had a kind of class system with woodgrain veneer on the one you couldn't afford, all the way down to the one without a radio at the bottom of the range. They chose rather as people choose college places, looking for the classiest college, discovering that it's too selective, and working down the list from Oxford and Cambridge at the top to Burnley FE college's coaching for mail-order degrees at the bottom. When I chose a course, it was hard to find-out what was on the course and whether it was what I wished to study. Looking on the web, I see that newspapers still encourage people to choose by instutution rather than course, tweaking league table data to promote unpopular courses in popular institutions against popular courses in unpopular institutions. The differences between a course called "Economics" at one college and another one with the same name down the road are glossed-over altogether.<br />
</Digression on colleges></blockquote>
<br />
The Roots Group merged with Chrysler of Detroit that had the same problem, so neither side could help the other. There may be records of how long Chrysler Avengers lasted - probably less than ten years for a lot of them. I knew one still in circulation after ten years would emit a kind of blue smoke if driven faster than 60mph. Another UK car manufacturer was short of money for research and development and got a government bail-out. It produced the Morris Marina, likewise. 1970s and 1980s cars were a spectacle in themselves - the National Motor Museum in Coventry says that factories were new to competative, fast, cheap manufacturing and not every good at it. I'm sure that consumers were not very good at choosing cars either, getting more skilled through the 80s and 90s. TV remeniscences about Ford of Dagenham state how the jobs were organised in a madenning way for people who worked there. My own remeniscences were of patching-up my dad's Ford Cortina with plastic padding, sanded and covered with careful spray and T-cut to fill the rust-holes. Once the gear lever came-off in my dad's hand, revealing tarmac underneath. Morris Marinas were only slightly worse, but sufficiently worse that sales reps (who's employers got a tax rebate and were the only people to buy cars new) only bought Ford and Vauxhall; Chysler and Leyland's Austin and Morris brands were stop-gaps.<br />
<br />
UK coal mines were more what you'd imagine of the public sector. British Coal had been in the public sector for as long as NHS hospitals and the thing was run rather more like a ministry, with the benefit of cheap government loans to buy machines. It also had very cheap central accounts systems, rather like government: all pensions were paid-for out of the current account. If the payroll shrank in an area, that area showed a loss in later financial years because it still paid the pensions of previous generations of miners. Like a ministry, the National Coal Board had a head office near Whitehall - in Buckingham Palace Road alongside British Steel Corporation. I expect that was so that National Coal Board could sell coal to British Steel without having to pay delivery costs. There was probably a gateway between the two in the basement.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The pruning theory - dead wood - green shoots of recovery</span> </h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<br />
The pruning-view came-up on Google just now, in the first half of a book synopsis published in the late 80s. The book was called Shaking The Iron Universe, apparently, and there is a link below, but it represents a common view among commentators.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<DIGRESSION><br />
At the time, international trade had become a lot easier as the port of Felixtowe allowed cheap surface mail for container-sized parcels addressed to the kinds of firms that liked to pay suppliers after recieving money from customers, and could afford high rents in the new retail planning zones. I guess a bit here - I don't have evidence for every clause - but I did see on telly that supermarkets were able to pay suppliers after the retail customers paid the supermarket were a new thing - often based on the ring road with a favour given to the council for planning permission. I am really not sure what I'm saying here but the ideas are worth writing. There was anyway a hike to the value of sterling caused by North Sea Oil. Norway had similar oil but a different system. It put the new tax money in a fund. Maybe it avoided massive rises in the value of its currency. But in the UK, government tends to put all money into the current account and tends to think a high currency is good for no known reason.<br />
</DIGRESSION></blockquote>
The book reports under-investment as over-staffing or low production per worker. These are close to being the same thing, but if you call it over-staffing then you can dream of a situation in which factories and jobs can close <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pour%20encourager%20les%20autres">to encouge the others</a>. Metaphors like "dead wood", "prune", and "green shoots of recovery" come to mind, specially if you read the Sunday Telegraph and watch <i>Gardiner's World</i> and are a core conservative supporter who might respond to this message..<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The cruel truth was that many of the companies that went out of business, and many of the managers who lost their jobs, got their just deserts. British industry was overmanned and in large part poorly managed. By the middle of 1981, the recession was already lifting, and company bosses - some newly in place, others terrified into action - realised something must be done. Throughout the Eighties, the quality of the manufacturing base improved greatly: proper financial controls were introduced, factories were overhauled, so were industrial relations. - <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/make-or-break-british-manufacturing-began-the-eighties-with-an-inevitable-shake-out-it-started-the-1491464.html">Online Synopsis from The Independant of David Bowen's "Shaking the Iron Universe"</a></blockquote>
The theory put in this book is that bad product lines like MG closed and that good ones like Morris Marina bounced-back revitalised. Bad Steelite closed. Good staffordshire figurines continued. Bad aluminium bicycle parts at GB Sport ceased production. Good cast-iron ones at Tube Investments stayed in production. Bad small computer firms like Acorn closed. Good computers like GEC's mainframe continued.<br />
<br />
I'm not convinced.<br />
<br />
What put the steelworks and the car-makers out of work was the exchange-rate hike caused by Sir Geoffrey Howe's interest-rate decsions, and that was what I had gone to Keele to study, as part of an economics degree course, so it should have been an exciting time to study economics. It turns out that an ex shadow chancellor and an ex prime minister went on a short economics course about the same time, and I don't think they learned anything either; I guess they both accepted the official view put in newspapers about what happened to the economy in the 80s.<br />
<br />
Talking of excitement, I don't know how to refute an economic argument or talk reasonably about it and the evidence, among people who have opposite ideas. For example, if someone seriously believes that the Olympics benefit the UK economy, I can't easily refute that. I have had a look at a report claiming that London Fashion Week benefits the UK economy, and think I can pick holes in that, but even if someone has an economic point to make, there is nowhere to make it. If anyone wants to research on how London Fashion Week does or does not benefit the UK economy, please contact me for ideas and maybe sources of information.<br />
<br />
The Begg Economics textbook has a paragraph about that, aimed at 16 year-olds, headed "common fallicies", one of which is "economists don't agree about anything". I think that's missing the point. Economists are bad at disagreeing because don't learn their trade in tutorials, so they don't learn from people who they disagree-with, and they end-up arguing against things that they don't really understand. I find the same; I find it very hard to read more than half way through a book about economics without getting too annoyed to continue.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Related blog posts</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">ukgovernmentconsultations - migration advisory committee call for evidence on the effect of international students</a><br />
International students' effect on providers in expensive areas who provide the worst courses<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table
of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that
take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom
of the league table for student feedback</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a> - the colleges with most international students get worst reviews for economics courses</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
The author sells <a href="http://veganline.com/">vegan shoes for a living, mainly made in the UK. Veganline.com is the web site</a>.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-40698974510011217892016-09-02T13:30:00.001+01:002018-10-21T10:22:45.263+01:00P2P lending risks and rewards<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<fieldset><b>related pages about P2P lending</b><br />
https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/09/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards.html <br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html" title="Primestox.com review">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html</a><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/08/p2p-lending-risks-and-rewards-bondora.html </a> </fieldset><br />
Moneywise wrote a page putting people off investments in Funding Knight and others under a "ones to avoid" heading. The article is no longer online; this is a better one with the same time.<br />
<h2><span style="color: red;">P2P lending risks and rewards (scroll down for rewards)</span></h2><h4 style="text-align: left;"></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">After a few weeks of wanting to write some kind of blog post about P2P, there are a couple of triggers.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Bondora ring-up and email and avertise to suit the shareholders in their business, while their P2P lenders are let-down. Nobody comments.</li>
<li>Funding Knight is a bit quiet and short of new loans after letting-down the investors who helped fund their office and salaries, but it still does a good job for lenders. This has put journalists at Moneywise into a panic and they have warned lenders not to take-part.</li>
</ul><br />
Lending on P2P sites is partly an emotional choice. You decide to take a little flutter, and then more, but spread the risk. You glance at a few facts about the loan if you have time, just to avoid feeling silly if it goes wrong and it's a big one. A few bad experiences persuade you to avoid certain types of lending in future or to keep them on a small scale. Generally, in my experience, the results are much better than shares and bank accounts, and sometimes more socially useful. The only problem is how to encourage other people to enjoy the same results without annoying those with no money to invest and without sounding like a sales rep.<br />
<br />
I should start with the bad news by saying what's wrong with Bondora, even though it has no stack of licences or big number of lenders in the UK. Bondora management used to be a thrifty cautious bunch, but sounded as though they had swallowed a textbook about ending their "bootstrapping" and reaching a tipping point at which equity finance could help them expand to a new level. This is a very very bad idea for companies that lend; it forces them to take uncomfortable risks. Fundingcircle suffered the same process in the UK with Alex Moulton's equity finance company pushing them into ever bigger and riskier loans. <br />
. <br />
Clicking-around on the internet, you find reports by disgruntled Bondora lenders message boards like P2Pmoney.co.uk and now even in the <a href="https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/08/25/2173212/fun-with-peer-to-peer-accounting-yes-actual-fun/">Financial Times</a> . <br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
</span> <span style="color: red;"><b>Bondora's estimated future returns are in double figures; <u>reality is 2.68%</u></b></span><br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>Bondora's estimated current value of my loans are €5,730; <u>reality is €8 today</u></b></span><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVytyhAJEZxjIJoa5pyejTjzf8F2gRZCzv1x6ixCgR3Y7Y4J-TYmMxmp-j4W4SifgBBYLcnpcXwDmQFUtmE6HbC5fjJDzWGP7OxxYA1p5XGq4oH0NzcqHVlQwXnTpZmR0rVner6y5TfwZk/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="450" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVytyhAJEZxjIJoa5pyejTjzf8F2gRZCzv1x6ixCgR3Y7Y4J-TYmMxmp-j4W4SifgBBYLcnpcXwDmQFUtmE6HbC5fjJDzWGP7OxxYA1p5XGq4oH0NzcqHVlQwXnTpZmR0rVner6y5TfwZk/s640/temp.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTUtnagO5iMNqQNCJvdgmeMBjWe0L2-W4P2DaTGCFP4F59nDp-4iVMXmcvDCCEVAo5H5yktNZiFsiYCUyegS1qVVSGWi_KA50G7ye6JvKFyVR8Fyyd2FJ4KwR4gILaRc92_ETmHTG8taqn/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTUtnagO5iMNqQNCJvdgmeMBjWe0L2-W4P2DaTGCFP4F59nDp-4iVMXmcvDCCEVAo5H5yktNZiFsiYCUyegS1qVVSGWi_KA50G7ye6JvKFyVR8Fyyd2FJ4KwR4gILaRc92_ETmHTG8taqn/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
So that's the glum news. <br />
There is a huge amount of extra detail now on the Bondora site, with videos and technical jargon, but, frankly, I have seen enough. There was also a head of investor relations, presumably on a high salary that adds to cots. You can look it up because he quit and they're advertising the job - https://www.bondora.com/blog/bondora-capital-is-searching-for-head-of-investor-relations/</blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Moneywise on <a href="https://www.fundingknight.com/">Funding Knight</a> changing ownership, which really is fine; it doesn't matter.</span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq"><i>"putting 900 savers’ money at risk"</i></blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Funding Knight's statement about change is much like any other P2P lender:</span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq"><i><span style="color: black;">"In the event that FundingKnight ceases to trade, we have appointed Complete Cash Management Limited to administer the collection of loan repayments and apportion them to the relevant investors. You will continue to receive the interest and capital payments due to you."</span></i><br />
<br />
"<i></i><span style="color: black;"><i>Any un-invested funds held in your investor account are held by our bank in a designated client account and ring-fenced from the assets of FundingKnight. These funds would therefore continue to be separate from FundingKnight Ltd and not available to its creditors."</i> </span></blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Reasons to believe Funding Knight and not Moneywise:</span></h4><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">(1) Experience</span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">I lend about £100 on any P2P platform that seems to offer a good return over 10% and have invested over a dozen. (Except Bondora where I lent too much). They don't close, raid the client account, and leave remaining loans un-collected. It simply doesn't happen. Fundingknight got me about 11½% with their auto-lend system, now dropped to 9½% while they've had less staff to recover bad loans and get new ones. Rebuildingsociety, on which I lend with my own rough hunches as well as auto-lend, got me 8% at minimum now risen back to 12½%. The rough hunches are often to invest at 20% as well as lower rates, and hope that the 20% bids are among the winning ones.<br />
<br />
The only one that seemed to loose money from the client account was Quakle, a tiny social enterprise that offered consumer credit without credit checks. I don't know how much went missing from the client account towards winding-up costs - possibly none - but the site dissapeared offline a few weeks after ceasing to take-on new business with nothing but an email address for explanation. I think that anyone investing, like myself, could see that it was a pretty strange idea, and knew that there was no Financial Conduct Authority regulation of P2P lending at the time. That's why I only invested about £50, and I doubt anyone else invested more. <br />
<br />
Bondora has a few thousand euro of my cash listed in un-salable loans and a quoted return of 3% at the moment, because I have turned auto-lend off and withdraw when possible.<br />
<br />
In contrast, 20 other P2P lenders have simply ceased to take-on new lenders, failed to start taking-on business, or merged into rival companies, as you would expect in a new market. Here is a list:<br />
<a href="http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/companies.htm">http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/companies.htm</a><br />
<br />
The only similar companies to Quakle trading today are the bitcoin P2P lending markets, which have software and people interested in lending and borrowing, but not many borrowers who look plausible and evidence-based in their requests. The options are to wait, or to invest one bitcoin on the most slick-looking platform, which I think is Bitbond, and see how it goes by investing the minimum amount that can be invested whenever cash comes-back in repayments. I would like to this but their ID recognition system has just changed, but I hope to get back into the habit after re-proving my ID. So far, there is some turnover of money but my loans are still too young to judge. The platform itself is odd too. Slick and well-funded by venture capitalists, I guess that some of this money goes towards pretend loans placed just to make the site look busy. When that money runs out and more of the other kinds of borrowers take-over, then returns may fall, and whenever the people running the sites learn how the market works and what debts are collectable, returns may rise.<br />
<br />
An old Funding Knight borrower has just asked for a new loan and dozens of current lenders have bid to fund it, so I am not the only one who thinks this platform is still worth using.Funding Knight has a very good web site for presenting data, which I suppose it what keeps the lenders lending. It tells me that I have earned just under 10% on new loans and just over 10% on second-hand loans bought on the after-market, mainly with their auto-bid system set to re-invest my earnings.</blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">(2) References regulatory checks and reviews</span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">These include interim licencing from the Financial Conduct Authority, and membership of trade associations that have minimum standards for members. Lenders on the site are free to post on public message boards, with their detailed knowledge of individual loans that the company has offered - which is a far more transparent system than applies to banks. Lenders can also check prospective borrowers against <a href="https://www.check-business.co.uk/">check-business.co.uk</a> as well as reading the detailed story that's offered behind each loan request. <a href="https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/04148697/acacia-care-and-education-limited">If I take the first loan, alphabetically, on my list of loans</a> I see that it's descibed as <i>"above average risk"</i> and <i>"lower than average equifax credit score". </i>I only bought £30-worth with the auto-lending robot, but the people who bought more asked eight earnest questions on a message board while the loan was auctioned, and read a more detailed breakdown of what the assets are. Stock has no value because the business is a school, but are other assets apparently. The blackboards or "tangeble assets" are valued at £792,374 which looks high. If I were investing hundreds, I would check all the questions that lenders have asked and the replies. Someone probably asked about the assets, and got a reply. <br />
<br />
There are regular articles about Funding Knight on sites like P2Pmoney. So, without knowing how to check the contract between Funding Kight and Complete Cash Managment or how it would work in practice, I think I can trust that it would work. It may be in place at the moment: Funding Knight hasn't posted any new loans for a while, but if one came-up, I'd consider investing.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Nothing much - just wondering how to price risk</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I suppose that a 50% instant risk of total loss is worth 200% instant interest to a robot with money to spare and no costs, or a hobbyist like a mild gambler.<br />
<br />
Anything more complicated, I find, is better expressed in some form like building-blocks than algebra, but one more layer of complication might be worth a shot.<br />
<br />
I suppose that a typical risk on a P2P lending site is that loan will fizzle-out to less value after a while. I would like to see this expressed as building blocks but here is an example. A loan defaults after one year and there is nothing to recover. Supposing I am a person who invests other cash at about zero percent in a deposit account, and has money to spare, does this for fun, then I suppose this is the same as it happening tomorrow; if half of loans do this I want to earn double my investment on all the ones that pay.<br />
<br />
I must come back to this.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Rewards over 10%</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I did found calculators for internal rate of return and applied them to Property Moose estimates of how much will come back as rent and how much as capital gain after three years, and the result was under 9% so I'm taking money out.<br />
<br />
I do see measures of the percentage I am making on loans to small business, which vary a lot in results. These are higher and have an extra benefit of encouraging employment and tax-paying in the economy where I live.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://p2pblog.co.uk/10-percent-club/">https://p2pblog.co.uk/10-percent-club/</a> is a blog post about the less useful but high-paying sites that fund bridging loans and maybe the odd second mortgage. I've found similar results.</blockquote><br />
This blog is here to promote <a href="http://veganline.com/">Veganline.com , the first shop to sell vegan shoes online in the UK</a></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com12tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-5167341220551269992016-08-18T15:09:00.010+01:002018-10-21T10:22:46.996+01:00Free online book-keeping software for simple accounts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
Choosing a UK business bank account<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html</a> <br />
Free, Fast and Pretty: shopping cart software for ecommerce<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html</a><br />
Simple Bookkeeping and Account Agregators<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html</a><br />
Free Online Bookkeeping Software for Simple Accounts <b><span style="color: red;">< this page</span></b><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
These free online accounts programs are in alphabetical order with a link and paragraph for each. A few more details could appear over time. The list is Beanbalance, Brightbook, Slickpie, Pandle, and Wavapps.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Introduction to free online accounting for income tax</span></h3>
I pay UK self-assessed income tax, using software to help with the job. That's what I know. I may pay UK VAT and Corporation Tax in future and look for programs written for the UK market. UK payroll is specialised too, and I mention something about that at the bottom of the page.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
UK income tax self-assessment requires<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> transactions, probably imported from a bank statement</li>
<li>categories of transaction: income, cost of sales, overheads, non-business, and probably loads of others added out of curiosity, or to match any income tax expenses that have their own box on the form or their own rules.</li>
<li>payments can be split into two categories, such as splitting electricity into home and home-based office costs.</li>
<li>A total for a year for each category.</li>
<li>Cash accounting by default, with the option to measure invoices un-paid and bills un-paid if the business ever gets large. At the moment I just check against a bank statement - if my accounting is double-entry (I'm not sure) then that's only because it's checked against the bank statement; I try to enter things only once and in as automated a way as possible. </li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
I guess all the programs below can do all of these jobs and more; it's what they're for. That's what they know.<br />
<br />
Oh, this follows a previous post on <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">account aggregators - mainly based on yodlee - that extract data from your bank accounts</a> to save you downloading the things. One of them - <a href="https://www.moneydashboard.com/">Moneydashboard</a> - can automatically log-in to a single bank account via the yodlee system and store your transactions, which you can download as a form of <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.csv</span></span> file, without totals, linked from the bottom left of their page. However your bank lets you download data, it can probably be converted to something you can upload to an accounts program. Cruch Accounting have a Santander Text File to CSV converter for example, Beanbalance have a Co-Op Bank <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.csv</span></span> to <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.ofx</span></span> converter, and <a href="https://csvconverter.biz/">CSVconverter.biz</a> can handle other formats for free. Midata, the <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.csv</span></span> format used for comparing bank accounts, goes back a year but has some of the payee descriptions asterisked-out. As a general rule, <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.csv</span></span> data is good but requires your accounts program to learn which column goes where; <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.ofx</span></span> data is good, <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.qif</span></span> data was accident-prone last time I used it. Accounts programs like my version of Wave often ignore the column for totals, if it's available, which it often isn't.<br />
<br />
I've put quotes from company web sites in italics. There's a little bit at the bottom of the page about downloadable programs.<br />
<br />
<hr />
Most of this information is from August 2016 with no routine up-dates. <br />
Slickpie's entry was updated in May 2017. I found a <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jun/18/control-spending-finances-budgeting-app-smartphone">Guardian article from 2016 on smartphone budget apps</a>.<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.beanbalance.com/">Beanbalance.com</a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.beanbalance.com/Home/Index#features">http://www.beanbalance.com/Home/Index#features</a> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
No premium service vs Free; everything is free but commission paid by accountants for referrals<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bank statements:</span></h4>
download and upload. You have to log-on to see the formats which in August 2016 were: <i>Microsoft Money (any version) </i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span><i> format </i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.qbo</span></span><i> or Quickbooks format </i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">Sage Line 50</span></span> <i> <span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.</span></span></i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">qif</span></span><i> format</i> <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Transactions to categories: </span></h4>
Probably smart, but I don't see a quick note on their web site</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://mybrightbook.com/">https://mybrightbook.com/</a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://mybrightbook.com/what_can_it_do/features/">https://mybrightbook.com/what_can_it_do/features/</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
No premium service vs Free; everything is free. A dot next to a circle on their front page converts the screen to a less bright colour, and the screen art might change if someone sends them another suggestion.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bank statements:</span></h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span><i> or </i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">qif</span></span></span><i> format. We recommend</i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span><i> format, if it's available, as it provides more transaction information.</i> <br />
<div style="color: #999999; line-height: 16px;">
(<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;">Co-op Bank .<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">csv</span></span></span><i><span style="color: black;"> to</span></i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;"> .<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span></span><i><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: red;"> converter </span>Use this tool to convert Co-op </span></i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;">.CSV</span></span><i><span style="color: black;"> exports into </span></i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span><i><span style="color: black;"> files, ready for upload into Brightbook. Note: this only works with Co-op </span></i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">csv</span></span></span><i><span style="color: black;"> files)</span></i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: black;"> <span style="color: red;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">qbo<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span></span></span></span></span><i><span style="color: black;"> format; </span></i><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Sage<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>Line 50</span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Transactions to categories:</span></h4>
<i>With your help, Brightbook can recognise what the items on your statements are. For example, if your statement shows the description 'TELEPHONE CD.286', you simply choose the Bill Type (Telephone) and Payment Method (Direct Debit) and tick the box next to the save button - Brightbook will then remember it for future imports.</i></blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.pandle.co.uk/">Pandle.co.uk</a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.pandle.co.uk/features/">https://www.pandle.co.uk/features/</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Slick service with a premium version coming soon and a promise to keep a free version forever. <a href="https://www.pandle.co.uk/pricing/">Pandle.co.uk/pricing/</a><span style="color: red;"> <span style="color: black;">suggests that invoice reminders, bank feeds, stripe and paypal integration will be paid for. </span></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Digression on Fremium services like Quickfile</span></span></span></h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">(There can be no promises about what will be free. <a href="https://quickfile.co.uk/">Quickfile.co.uk</a> is based in the UK and worth a look at £45+VAT a year, but was initially free and still has a free version for something like 80 lines of bank statement per month with only the features that you find on other free programs. When the price hike happened, they let me download my data and I found ways of uploading it to another program. While using it I found that it took a while to turn-off or work-around the double entry booko-keeping system of an invoice account to balance payments made, but it worked. You can teach it to recognise bank statement lines and categorise them ).</span></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bank statements: </span> </h4>
<i>We have developed integrations with all the major banks in the UK. So no matter who you bank with Pandle will be able to automatically import your bank statements.</i> - <span style="color: red;">presumably this is Yodlee</span>. For upload instructions, there is a video headed <i>Select one of our pre-formatted upload types depending on your bank account and easily upload all of your transactions in one go. </i>I tried uploading some Waveapps data, converted to <span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.ofx</span></span> by csvconverter.biz but just got error message number one each time I tried a variation. It says something like "does not match". Pandle is very new and this quirk might be sorted by the time you try.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Transactions to categories:</span></h4>
<span style="color: black;">Learns from previous category decisions</span></blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.slickpie.com/">Slickpie.com</a></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.slickpie.com/features">https://www.slickpie.com/features</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.getapp.com/finance-accounting-software/a/slickpie/">https://www.getapp.com/finance-accounting-software/a/slickpie/.</a><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"> <span style="color: black;"><br />
(Getapp lists this service but doesn't list most of the free ones or allow comparison of any)</span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">Bank statements:</span> </span></h4>
<i>In May 2017 they write "</i><i>Now, users from all the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and many other countries worldwide will enjoy unlimited access to live bank feeds from their own local banks! That’s right! SlickPie has just expanded to support all the major banks out there! " <br />
<br />
To import bank statement in SlickPie, you need to download your bank statement in </i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">csv</span></span></span><i> (Comma Separated File) or </i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <span style="color: red;">.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">ofx</span></span></span><i> (Microsoft Money) format.</i><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<i> </i><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">Transactions to categories:</span></span></span> </h4>
Probably something slick, but I haven't found a quick note on their web site<br />
<br />
This program doesn't seem to have a version for the UK market, but has subtle tweaks and instructions available for setting-up tax systems and a helpdesk who tout for trade asking if they can help with anything.<br />
<br />
In contrast Kashflow can upload a VAT return automatically to a UK tax office but costs so-much a month - a price that rises steeply from £5+VAT if you use it much.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.waveapps.com/">https://www.waveapps.com</a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.getapp.com/finance-accounting-software/a/wave-accounting/">https://www.getapp.com/finance-accounting-software/a/wave-accounting/<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><br />
</span></span></span><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">(Getapp lists this service but doesn't list most of the free ones or allow comparison of any)</span></span></span></a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
No premium service except payroll, which is only available in the US and Canada anyway The free version can recognise bills and receipts sent from your own email address and keep them ready for matching against the bank statement. There isn't a page of features because the url is broken-down by features, which are /<a href="https://www.waveapps.com/accounting/">accounting</a> <a href="https://www.waveapps.com/invoicing">/invoice</a> <a href="https://www.waveapps.com/payments/">/payments</a> <a href="https://www.waveapps.com/receipts/">/receipts</a> <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bank statements: </span></h4>
Imported on request, by pressing a button, once set-up. <span style="color: red;">The feed system used is from Yodlee</span>, which has been criticised by accountants as accident-prone, but works for me. I still have to learn how to import bank and card statements into their separate bank and card accounts. Or you can upload saved statements from your had disk. The .csv option shows you the top few lines of result and asks you to confirm which one is the date, description, and payment column before recognising the rest automatically. It claims to be able to flag entries that you upload twice by mistake, but hasn't done that for me. <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.ofx</span> </span>Microsoft Money <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.qbo</span> </span>QuickBooks <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.qfx</span> </span>Quicken <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.aso</span> </span>Simply Accounting <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="color: red;">.csv</span> </span>CSV file </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Transactions to categories:</span></h4>
The system is slow to list a load of transactions on the screen, even when you try to think of knacks like only showing a months' transactions at a time. This makes manual processing slow, but it's necessary as Yodlee bank feeds have been known to mess-up. There is an automatic system that counts a paypal payment as "computer services". There is no way to change the automatic system. The nearest is to wait to the end of the year, list the ledger screen by the description column, click the tickbox beside every paypal receipt, and then press a button to reclassify the lot as something else.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">VAT:</span></h4>
The program has heard of VAT so I expect it can be set-up to handle UK or non-american taxes, but one review is less sure: "Basically Wave Accounting doesn’t handle VAT properly. There is no option for cash accounting or the flat rate scheme, trying to incorporate VAT in transactions is difficult and the VAT return is useless, does not transfer anything into a liability account and no ability to reconcile VAT transactions.". Wave themselves say that the program is fine for VAT and I've used it for a few lines of VAT payment on a cash-basis account, but haven't had a VAT inspection of the result; it's just a handful of account lines each year that I used to make a figure to put on the form.</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<hr />
Chance findings - the programs that cropped-up and don't qualify for the list but might interest someone<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>Never do anything for the first time: paying self-assesed income tax with software as a guide</b></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
...can be a strain on anyone's ability to make sense of HMRC web sites and guides. There are cheap bits of software for the purpose, with their own guides, prompts and estimates as well as special cases like paying from abroad where the HMRC website doesn't work. The Guardian had a joint deal one year with a firm that is now called GoSimple; others are among the list on <a href="https://www.gov.uk/software-tax-returns">https://www.gov.uk/software-tax-returns</a> . I guess that they are less for book-keeping than the software listed at the top of this page, and more for help filling-in the tax form. Some of the programs have free trials, so you can use them for the help screens to check that you've got the hang, and then fill-in your own figures on the HMRC web site if you would rather save the cost of the software.</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"> </span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Payroll programs</b></span> </span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I've never done UK payroll, but found-out some software for it by accident. <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.payerti.org/RTI-UC">http://www.payerti.org/RTI-UC</a> - guide to real time reporting requirements for employers<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tech/tech-pulse/rti-payroll-software-free-options">https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tech/tech-pulse/rti-payroll-software-free-options</a> lists software.<br />
<br />
HMRC list a few online programs that can report detail for less than ten UK employees alongside paid versions of the same software that can do more, as can HMRC's own downloadable software which is also free and has no limit on use. <a href="https://www.gov.uk/basic-paye-tools">Gov.uk/basic-paye-tools</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://adminsoftware.biz/"> Adminsoftware.biz</a> is a down-loadable accounts program that can do UK payroll for over 10 employees. <i>The payroll was developed specifically for the United Kingdom. It can submit information to HMRC using RTI, and we believe at this time, it's the only free payroll that will allow in excess of 10 employees. The maximum is 250 employees. However, Adminsoft Accounts is primarily an accounts system, and so the payroll is basic. While very useable, and fully compliant with payroll legislation, it does not have some of the 'bells ad whistles' that some of the paid for (and rather expensive...) alternative products may have. For example, things like the amount of <a href="https://www.gov.uk/employers-sick-pay">SSP</a>, <a href="https://www.gov.uk/employers-maternity-pay-leave">SMP</a>, student loans, etc. have to be worked out by hand, where as a more sophisticated payroll would work out the amounts automatically. </i> <br />
<br />
Adminsoft describes itself as a double-entry accounts program that handles stock control and has addons for cafe-restaurants and motor repair or car parts shops, so it's a different animal to most of the programs listed above. It's also coy about importing bank statements; I can't see anything that says what formats it accepts from your hard disk, and it doesn't mention yodlee connections. It's supported as free software - like Wave - by ads on your working screens and a credit on your invoices. They're more intrusive than the add on Wave, but Adminsoft does do stock control and payroll, and has modules for car parts shops and cafes. Unlike Wave, Adminsoft can't be used online like a web site; there is an faq post about how to use if over an internal network. The fact that it's on your hard disc ought to make it faster than Wave on a bad day, when Wave is very bad; downloadable software might be more efficient. I don't know how much.<br />
<br />
<b><a href="http://payroo.com/">Payroo.com</a></b> looks next cheapest from a quick search of HMRC's first list of programs - <a href="https://www.gov.uk/payroll-software">Gov.uk/payroll-software</a> - the ones that are free for the first three or nine employees. Payroo is cheapest on the list for employers of ten or more, who pay £3+VAT a year when submitting an end of year report. It runs from a web site, like the list of accounts software above. A couple of posts on the accountingweb link suggest that when something goes wrong there is no way to put it right; you can't contact Payroo to ask them to put right a mistake even if it's their mistake. On the other hand, the £3+VAT cost is yearly; other companies charge per month.</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b>Downloadable open source and free accounts software</b></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are plenty of downloadable open source programs, but so far as I know they all make double entry a priority which makes the learning curve steep and accounting slow. This is a problem with Gnucash and its simpler relative, Grisbi, as well as the now open source Turbocash. I have not tried VTCashbook which is often mentioned on other sites. When I used downloaded software for work I used <a href="http://www.mechcad.net/products/acemoney/personal-finance-software-quicken-alternative.shtml">Acemoney</a>, which is free for one or two tracked accounts or freemium for more and geared to a sole trader or freelancer. It claims to download data from some of the US banks automatically, but I don't have any US bank accounts to test it on and UK banks aren't so easy to deal with. I guess that open source software is more of an option when looking for larger-scale more complicated options with different names like "ERP" and more functions. You might prove me wrong by checking Wikipedia</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_open_source_software">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_open_source_software</a></blockquote>
<b> <span style="color: red;">Time tracking programs</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This is a feature on some account programs but not others. I haven't spotted whether it's on any of the list above, but the american program <a href="https://zipbooks.com/">https://zipbooks.com</a> has it. The program is funded by commission from services like Paypal in North America, so it won't include specialised features for the UK any time soon, but hey: it has time tracking<b> </b>and something called Project Management as well.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Installable open source and free accounts software for web servers </span></h4>
<blockquote>
Web servers nowadays include an easy software installation panel called something like Vistapanel, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softaculous">Softulicious</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Installatron">Installatron</a> or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastico_(web_hosting)">Fantastico</a>. Even the slow, free servers like Byethost have it. If you search the web sites of these one-click installer companies, or sign-up for a web host, you'll see the list of what they can install which is mainly rather corporate multi-purpose stuff.</blockquote>
<b> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"> </span></span></b><span style="color: red;"> <span style="color: red;"><b>Stock control programs and ERP</b></span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
One of the hassles of growing a business is that after a while you want to integrate things like the accounts software and the e-commerce software, and find that it can't easily be done and that you need something like a Drupal set-up or some sprawling-great program do it, and apparently sprawling-great programs are called ERP, which probably stands for sprawling great program in some language. Oodoo is an example.</blockquote>
<blockquote>
I haven't reached that stage; I hope to use the stock control software that's glued to the back of Prestashop e-commerce. For the moment, I just count the shoe boxes on a shelf. Anyway, one of two of the programs above might do stock control.</blockquote>
<a href="http://veganline.com/">The purpose of all this blogging is to promote an online vegan shoe web site called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in a democratic welfare state - the UK</a>. </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com102tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-63752259579977077802016-06-13T14:51:00.008+01:002018-10-19T15:38:17.250+01:00London Housing Trust<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2016-06-08/revealed-homeless-housing-trust-accused-of-letting-down-domestic-violence-victims-in-400-a-week-rooms">https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2016-06-08/revealed-homeless-housing-trust-accused-of-letting-down-domestic-violence-victims-in-400-a-week-rooms</a> ... A lot of this blog post repeats what's on the link - skip down the page for how to run an organisation that is not like London Housing Trust or read-on to see why not to copy them. If you are just loking for London Housing Trust's office address: 8b Evelyn Court Business Park, Grinstead Rd, SE8 5AD. </blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & funders</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">The BBC version of this story confirmed that London Housing Trust defrauded the local housing benefit office by claiming for a <i>"concierge service" </i>at a place where there wasn't one. The fraud is as simple as that. The building housed victims of domestic violence amongst others, so there's a good reason to have someone paid to answer the door, but no such job existed. This is a straightforward factual statement, easily proved; there is no need to find a record of complaints. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jun/10/profit-homelessness-domestic-abuse-council-cuts">The Guardian re-reported the story</a> with quotes from several residents. <br />
<br />
There's also money from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supporting_People">Supporting People</a>, a scheme like Housing Benefit which I don't understand, and depends on residents needing some kind of extra service beyond what other landlords can provide.<br />
<br />
Meanwhile the organisation insists on online referrals which could be good but leaves less paper trail to say what these residents' support needs were or are - always a problem when the residents are not there for any specific treatment that might help define them. I don't know if this is a problem, but it was certainly a problem at Kids Company, where the founder made repeated implausible claims about the needs of her clients and instructed staff to upgrade every one of them on the database in the last few days that staff thought they were paid.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & suppliers </span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">The BBC confirmed that London Housing Trust defrauds ex-residents as part of a scheme to defraud suppliers, showing an interview with an ex housing support worker who said something like <i>"this has happened loads of times. We put any ex-residents' name on the electricity bill, and when it isn't paid we say 'look: we're a housing association; the resident has moved-on', and the electricity company don't cut us off."</i> The BBC backed-up this general story with a specific ex-resident who had been chased for forged fuel bills, and a current resident who had confronted the landlord. The BBC had a third piece of evidence - a photo of an emailed reply from a current housing support worker saying that the director - <i>"<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-dellar-187a0365">Steve</a>"</i> - had instructed her to put <i>"the longest residents' name"</i> on an electricity bill.<br />
<br />
This illustrates the problem of people who get public money. They are often not people who you would hire to paint the place where you live, or do your accounts, but if you need a job or supported housing, you sometimes have to put up with them as though they were the sensible ones.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & jobs & staff</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">The organisation seems likely to treat staff so badly that ex-staff can be called bad witnesses, as though this was normal. As though it's normal for ex-staff members to want to contact the press: <i>"The programme ... arose from one complaint from one client and the malicious intent of a former employee".</i> If the organisation does treat staff like this, the result for some staff is obvious. There is another result for tenants and taxpayers: organisations who hire staff like this will get the ones so unimaginative that they didn't see anything wrong, or so cynical that they worked the system. They won't get the perfectly good staff who made a fuss. Such people would be given a bad reference if they tried to get another job after being employed at London Housing Trust or any of the other organisations like it.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & donors</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">The BBC added a story of food bank parcels being delivered to the head office, and interviews with residents who said they had never seen any food from food banks; none reached them.<br />
London Housing Trust urges residents to complain to the BBC about unfair reporting.<br />
<br />
It's easy to see why this sort of organisation should be short of cash, but the high housing benefit payments ought to go a long way if the organisation is run efficiently, without anything being syphoned-off to other companies. London Housing Trust is certainly a thrifty organisation in terms of self-written web sites done on open source software, clients on the board instead of external trustees, and an organisation that seems to run on the say-so of a director rather than a committee-cycle. This could be a good thing if it allows the organisation to run on the current grant system, including special high-rate housing benefit, rather than a begging-round of grants from all-over-the-place and housing provided cheaply by sympathetic housing associations, as was the system when I worked in supported housing (we used to have fake consultation where a team leader would be required to get consent from staff for some distant committee's decision). Firms that pay low wages and are generally cheapskate like NACRO or Stonham or English Churches had all the advantage that bad employers have, and were still short of money when I did temping work for them. But that doesn't change the starting point; the housing benefit payments should be not be syphoned-off to other companies; they should be spent on what it said on the form.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & trust & scandle</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">By the time the story was on TV, some of the <a href="https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/" target="_blank">Bureau of Investigative Journalism</a> reports of obvious and deliberate-looking conflicts of interest, like awarding a contract to a company owned by a director <a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/KThnnu8JbaMz2V_B7uBUjnGiSKk/appointments">Steven Dellar</a>, had been acknowledged to some extent. <a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07422670/officers">Dellar resigned on the 4th of June</a>, while another London Housing Trust director, <a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08918965/officers">Winsome Chambers, resigned a directorship of Limitless Care Ltd on the 3rd of June</a>. The names of both director's other companies suggest that they are contractors for the likes of London Housing Trust, and so able to get work in a way that isn't transparent. They could move money in or out of the organisation in a way that isn't shown on the books by charging less or more for work they are bound to get. <br />
<br />
This is not worth a news report when a private company does it - maybe to avoid Corporation Tax - but if there is charitable-style funding or volunteer work done to help a poor organisation, then it ought to be known. The organisation claimed on its web site to be a charity until quite recently, when it was pointed-out to them that larger charities have to register or stop using the word. It still calls itself a "Trust".</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & inspections, December 2016</span> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/INS2-2702773212.pdf">We did not give a rating to the service because there was only one person using the service</a>.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">London Housing Trust & trustees or residents</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">LHT has some residents on the board of directors.<br />
Trustees sometimes justify bad management of voluntary organisations by saying that it's the clients that are the first priority, and so all the other stakeholders - funders / donors / volunteers, staff, or suppliers - come second. Usually the same point of view comes with a lazy approach to who the clients of a charity are - such as the particular residents at any one time - rather than the potential residents and ex-residents as well in part of a process. Anyway, clients of a service suffer too. For example, if you had a problem with domestic violence, you want to live somewhere with a "concierge service". If it it's funded but not supplied, then nobody can have the service. Either the hostel tries to avoid housing clients who need it, or they take a chance and maybe it's needed but not there. </blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">The effects on clients go-on. Staff who make a fuss leave the trade or are forced to leave the trade without a reference. The next agency down the road hires staff who got their first jobs at this place, and can get a reference from it. After a while, the whole trade gets to be staffed by people who are loyal to employers, not to the work, who lack curiosity about what they're doing, and don't make a fuss. These aren't good people to run anything,. An organisation which was much more transparent could do a lot more for everyone, including clients.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">So</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">In everyday life, you don't trust dishonest people; you don't hire someone to do a job if they did a fraud on another job.<br />
<br />
The shocking and depressing thing is that the organisation is so dishonest that it doesn't apologise or understand the problem; a statement on their web site urges residents to write-in to complain to the BBC. The notion that <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20151023025040/http://www.londonhousingtrust.org/staff/stephen-dellar/">a dishonest person</a> should not have been a director, nor a biddable person still work as a housing support worker, isn't addressed in their reply. Facts are not important to them either. My hunch is that words and facts are less important than status in way that the organisation is run.<br />
<br />
This is the kind of management that you have to put-up with if you work for grant artists. I once worked for a firm called Equinox, working for rough sleepers in South East London, that treated funders, residents, and staff in a similar way. Not exactly the same way, but fraudulently. Equinox is still going. <a href="http://www.qvt.org.uk/">Quo Vardis Trust</a>, a <a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05876659">company</a> and <a href="http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1116196">registered charity run by Steve Dellar</a>, does joint work with Equinox apparently. <br />
<br />
Dishonesty is often the end of a process that began with an attempt to run an honest service. People set-up organisations to do impossible or difficult things because they don't know that it's difficult. A general point of view emerges among trustees and around the office, which happens to be the easiest and cheapest thing to believe. Then when managers are hired over time, it's convenient for them to believe the unbelievable. These are London Housing Trust's specialisms, according to the Care Quality Commission.<br />
<ul class="collapsible"><li>Dementia</li>
<li>Mental health conditions</li>
<li>Personal care</li>
<li>Physical disabilities</li>
<li>Caring for adults under 65 yrs</li>
</ul>NHS consultants have trouble specialising in one of those areas and finding a way to help; this rental agency claims to specialise in all of the. It's not unusual. TurningPoint has a similar note on its letterhead, as does English Churches Housing Group. The letterhead says something like "drug alcohol learning difficulties ... those sort of people", and the service is described as "housing", or "working with", or "anything to claim a grant to be honest". The reality is that someone from the temping agency or a junior inexperienced job applicant is called-in to do the job. Whatever it is. Job qualifications and interview questions can mention subjects like "awareness of alcohol issues" in passing, underneath the bit that says "able to use an impress petty cash system". This was the norm in the kinds of housing support agencies I used to work at while temping, and it's only a few steps short of the the fraud that follows. It's a very hard norm to change, because there is no set of people you can ask about what the organisation does. Some staff do a lot; some a little. Some talk a lot, and rise to be team leaders. Others come-in from other jobs and become the grander staff who talk to consultants about how very, very junior their junior staff are.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Afterthought and digression about schools</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">As most secondary schools now work on with similar principals, this it's hard to guess what will happen to secondary schools. Will they become as bad as supported housing agencies? There are reports in the Times Higher Educational Supplement staffroom section of free schools awarding over-priced contracts to their own senior staff under other company names.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Italics are direct quotes from the London Housing Trust web site - scroll down for a bit about how to be an honest skinflint in the voluntary sector</span> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">"<i><br />
Jun 16</i><br />
<h3 style="text-align: justify;"><i> BBC London News Broadcast – Response by London Housing Trust</i></h3><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>Many of our clients and agencies who work with us, may have seen the BBC London News broadcast (08/06/16) about alleged malpractice occurring within the Trust. We unreservedly deny the reported allegations and intend to make a formal complaint to the BBC and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. The broadcast was littered with factually inaccurate details and was based on a complaint from one client, who in collusion with a former employee, collaborated to bring the name of the Trust into disrepute. The Trust supports over 200 clients across 47 properties. The journalists honed in on two properties and interviewed two clients and from this made an exaggerated claim of “widespread malpractice”.</i></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>On seeing the broadcast, a number of clients have contacted us voicing their astonishment at the biased reporting and volunteering to give video testimonials of the support that they receive from the Trust.</i></div></blockquote><div style="text-align: justify;"><blockquote><i>If you have any concerns about our work, please do not hesitate to contact our Operations Manager, <a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08918965/officers">Winsome Chambers</a>.</i><br />
"<br />
<a href="https://www.cqc.org.uk/provider/1-1699750135/services">London Housing Trust has not yet been inspected by the Care Quality Commission</a>, after registering in January 2015.<br />
<br />
The Homes and Communities Agency has a very public online notice to say it's inspecting London Housing Trust as a registered social landlord, and links for detail to t<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulating-the-standards">his page about how to be a registered social landlord</a>. I haven't read the detail but I was in the trade the inspections were from the Housing Corporation and about things like rent, repairs, and the role of staff.<br />
<br />
<h3><i>Dec 2012</i></h3><h3><i><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="BBC London News Broadcast 8 Jun 16 board response"></a></i></h3><h3><i>LHT Signs up to the London Living Wage (£8.55 ph)</i></h3><h3><i><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="BBC London News Broadcast 8 Jun 16 board response"></a></i></h3><h3><i><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="BBC London News Broadcast 8 Jun 16 board response"></a></i></h3><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>On the 31 December London Housing Trust raised all its employees wages to at least the London Living Wage (currently £8.55).</i></div><h3><i><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="BBC London News Broadcast 8 Jun 16 board response"></a></i></h3><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>We believe that, like Boris Johnson “Paying the London Living Wage is not only morally right, but makes good business sense too.” As a Registered Provider of Social Housing, LHT provides supported accommodation to over 150 clients in London. Our commitment to our clients must be reflected in our commitment to our staff.</i></div><h3><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="BBC London News Broadcast 8 Jun 16 board response"></a></h3></blockquote><div style="text-align: justify;"><blockquote><i>“Support is one of the lowest paid sectors and providing a living wage means that we can attract the best people in the sector to offer the best support to our clients. Its part of our people strategy and our corporate responsibilty agenda.”</i> – Dr Stephen Dellar – Director @ LHT<br />
<br />
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />
Update: London Housing Trust has extracted <i>"messages of support"</i> from other organisations as their website described them for a while, Or at least it has extracted feedback about the referral process; quotes show replies to that question. It's not stated whether these were phone interviews or email or what, but the quotes were all made on the same day - eight days after the broadcast - so they were probably obtained by cold-calling people who need referral options for their clients and so are likely to be polite.<br />
<i>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</i><br />
Heather Lord (who works at The Depaul Trust)<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;"><i>‘Most referrals have been a positive outcome. I have not faced any issues with LHT. </i></div><div style="text-align: left;"><i>The referral process is not the best although it is online. LHT could improve the referral form to suit referral agents and well as LHT staff.’</i></div><div style="text-align: left;"><i>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</i></div><div style="text-align: left;">Malcom Williams (who works at The Passage Day Centre)</div><br />
<i>‘The referral process is fine. I do not have any issues with LHT however they could improve communication with referral agent in regards to clients who have been referred.’<br />
<br />
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</i><br />
Tracey Hamilton (who works at Tower Hamlets Council)<br />
<br />
<i>‘The referral process makes it easy to provide the client information. LHT is very informative; they call you back regarding a client and if not when you call, they provide you with enough information, so your up to date with everything.’</i><br />
<i>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</i><br />
Gary Bird (who works at Thamesreach)<br />
<br />
<i>‘The process of referring clients is very straightforward, its nice quick and easy. I personally have not faced any issues with LHT and in my opinion there are no improvements needed. </i><i>I’ve referred many clients and I will definitely refer more.’ </i><br />
<i>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</i><br />
Homeless Support Worker (no name, team, or organisation given so this is looks very much like a made-up quote).<i><br />
</i><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: justify;"><i>‘bla bla bla bla bla bla bla this is probably a made-up quote para one’</i></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>‘bla bla bla bla bla bla bla this is probably a made-up quote para two’</i></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><i>‘From all of our Team, we would like to say thank you to the London Housing Trust and at a time like this when you are going through difficulty holding on to positive thoughts and feedback is far more important than journalists causing distress’ </i></div></blockquote><i> </i> <br />
<hr /><i></i><br />
<h3><span style="color: red;">How to be an honest skinflint in the voluntary sector</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">A happy event: <a href="https://knowhownonprofit.org/">https://knowhownonprofit.org/ </a>is a good site about how be a good skinflint and other subjects that interest prople in the voluntary sector - all published as a wiki with help from the National Council for Voluntary Organisations<br />
<br />
This is quite different to the kind of thing that used to be on head office desks when I worked for the voluntary sector. Subjects like how to work without an office or a landline. Whether there is something on how to work without a Microsoft and and Adobe licence I don't know - that used to the last badge of rank that voluntary sector managers wanted to give-up, even when they were plotting fake gross misconduct allegations to get rid of expensive staff without redundancy, or ripping-off funders and clients with lies about services provided or letting down suppliers. I worked at one place that simply decided not to pay rent on an office in order to rip-off the landlord.<br />
<br />
Oh - here is a clue:<br />
<a href="https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/upgrading-it-systems-with-very-limited-resources">https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/upgrading-it-systems-with-very-limited-resources</a><br />
This author suggests using one donated piece of microsoft software one one remote server. I disagree. I think the default option should be to use free open source software like Libre Office on all machines, updated every few months, so that everyone is using the same software and nobody has to trouble donors. There is a side effect that everyone associated with the organisation learns that free software exists, which is the kind of objective that charities are set-up for; they can pass-on the knowledge to their clients.<br />
<br />
Traditionally, voluntary sector trade associations have had to advise a broad range of organisations, defined by the type of organisation (however broad) rather than a purpose, which is usually something more or less impossible like feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, healing the sick and providing community to those who are hard to reach. All with or without a grant from some government body which is probably reducing while demand increases.<br />
<br />
I found a couple of pages on making the landlord redundant and cutting energy costs legally -both by the same author. They read like something from Moneysavingexpert, which is another good place to look. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/going-officeless">https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/going-officeless </a><br />
<a href="https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/cutting-energy-costs-1">https://knowhownonprofit.org/case-studies/cutting-energy-costs-1</a><i><br />
</i><br />
<br />
And I almost forgot to add a link to my job - <a href="http://veganline.com/">flogging vegan shoes mainly made in the UK, along with boots, belts, and some vegan jackets</a>.</blockquote><br />
<h3><span style="color: red;">How to set-up a better firm to your boss's one in the voluntary sector</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">When I worked for Drink Crisis Centre, as it then was, there was a rapid turnover of people who were often not on speaking terms with each other, working for the outreach team. My project - hostel liaison - was merged into it on the management diagram, but really I was self-employed with hindrance from a voluntary organisation that took a large grant, kept some of it for management fees or ghost staff, and paid me the rest as salary till on a whim they closed my part of the project and used fake gross misconduct accusations dismissals to remove remaining staff without a reference. What surprised me was that there was no way to set-up a rival organisation with the same staff and the same funder, given that the management team provided next to nothing. All we needed was a formal way of meeting, because we were not all of us on speaking terms, and a bit of free advice from a consultant on how to transfer the project over to a better management team. At the time there was another management team called Rugby House Project that we trusted a bit more and had managed similar things. We needed a union branch that was interested in this kind of work. All the rest would become obious once a union branch had started the process, as, between us, we have most of the knowledge about how the grant system worked and who organised it. Now, <a href="http://employees.org.uk/lookatourlaundry.html">people who work with people don't often want to go and work with more people in the evenings in some kind of branch committee</a> and there is a good site about how one of these worked very badly a decade ago, but the idea remains worth a try.<br />
<br />
I doubt the idea would work for London Housing Trust because the staff would more often be on a first job in the trade and keen to move-on to something better-paid rather than stay and do something. This is more of an idea for jobs were people like the work, but don't like the employer, but it might apply.</blockquote><br />
</div></div></div><br />
<hr />Related post about Grenfell Tower and how the behaviour or tenants at Kensington Town Hall links to housing association management styles<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/06/grenfell-tower.html" title="Grenfell Tower: it's obvious">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/06/grenfell-tower.html</a><br />
<br />
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-37230680973905270222016-05-09T19:04:00.002+01:002018-10-19T15:37:23.533+01:00trade directories<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Last century, there was a thing called the Shoe Trades Directory in the UK, published by a footwear manufacturer's magazine using research by the people who sold ad-space on its pages. I photocopied the last edition at City Business Library and ran out of change before doing the index, so if anyone has the index to the Shoe Trades Directory of about 1990, I would be interested to know.<br />
<br />
Internet killed the niche-market trade directories and replaced them with its own versions - the enthusiast link-list; the automated directory of free information that hopes for an advert, the blog, and the obscure document that you dredge-up from years ago. <br />
<br />
None of these does the same job of saying whether X shoes of Y town makes mens, ladies, or childrens' sizes using Z or other technique in batches of 1, 12, 36-72, 100+, or 1 container-full, at low-end, middling, or top-end prices: contact Mr X for more details or, better, fax 00000000000000, and promised to cover nearly all the shoemakers in the UK - not just the ones who pay to be in a trade association or have a PR agent.<br />
<br />
Well I am very chuffed to get a polite reply from government via an MP who was busy on other things at the time, but still found someone to concentrate on my email and forward it.<br />
<br />
(Unfortunately there is another part of government funding promotion of important goods and even an M&S factory in China - <a href="https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69193/pb13206-clothing-action-plan-100216.pdf">https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69193/pb13206-clothing-action-plan-100216.pdf</a>)<br />
<hr />
Marie-Claire Uhart <br />
Director <br />
Central Policy<br />
<br />
1st Floor, 1C/01 <br />
100 Parliament Street <br />
London SW1A 2BQ <br />
<br />
Zac Goldsmith MP <br />
<br />
zac at zacgoldsmith com <br />
<br />
Tel: 03000 586675 <br />
<br />
Email: marie-claire uhart at hmrc gsi gov uk <br />
<br />
Date: 05 May 2016 <br />
<br />
Dear Mr Goldsmith <br />
<br />
Thank you for your email of 4 April 2016 about your constituent, Mr John Robertson of 2 <br />
Avenue Gardens, London, SW14 8BP. I am replying on behalf of the Chief Executive. <br />
<br />
Mr Robertson raises an important point. To address this issue, as part of the Government’s <br />
agenda on business, HMRC and the Department of Business Innovation and Skills (BIS) are <br />
looking at various business register options. <br />
<br />
As Mr Robertson recognises HMRC operates under a duty of confidentiality which applies to <br />
all information the department holds. This legal duty can be dis-applied in certain <br />
circumstances, for example where a person consents to disclosure when the information is <br />
for the purpose of our functions; or where a statutory enactment is in place. In developing <br />
business register options with BIS, we are looking at potential benefits while ensuring that <br />
the public can continue to be confident that we look after their data appropriately. Where <br />
legislation is needed to be able to use HMRC information as part of a register it will be <br />
included as part the overall package. <br />
<br />
I hope this helps you to reply to Mr Robertson <br />
<br />
Yours sincerely <br />
<br />
<br />
Marie-Claire Uhart <br />
<br />
Director, Central Policy <br />
<hr />
... Back to the blog post and away from quoted letters ....<br />
<hr />
<br />
On a different subject I've been looking for somewhere to list all the sties that re-hash companies house data, and sometimes add just a teaspoon-full more without charging. And then close, like bizzy, or start charging, liked Duedil. I've taken the example of Nonleather Distribution Ltd on each site, if available. This company was registered 16 days ago and changed its name about two weeks ago. If it isn't on the site, I don't link to it.<br />
<br />
<br />
http://www.bizdb.co.uk - hopes to cross-link to trademark ownership, directors, sic code search, and company domain ownership according to the front page of the site<br />
<strike><br />http://bizzy.co.uk/404/</strike> closed - used to offer a free minimal credit reference - see checkbusiness below<br />
<br />
https://www.check-business.co.uk - <a href="https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/10285177/nonleather-distribution-ltd">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - adds a free star rating from Equifax credit rating. Links to the owner, Funding Options, a credit broker<br />
<br />
http://www.cdrex.com - <a href="http://www.cdrex.com/nonleather-distribution-ltd-9841746.html?recache=1#more">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - search by keyword in the name - first to allow searching by classification - adds co-ordinates and arial view - updates prompted by a company number search<br />
<br />
http://companiesintheuk.co.uk - <a href="https://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/nonleather-distribution">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - <br />
- search by classification - search by postcode - prompt an update - add links for your own co<br />
<br />
http://www.companycheck.co.uk - Nonleather Distribution Ltd <br />
<br />
http://www.companysearchmadesimple.com - <a href="https://www.companysearchesmadesimple.com/company/uk/10285177/nonleather-distribution-ltd/">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - no added free services - classifications don't show<br />
<br />
http://www.creditgate.com - <a href="https://secure.creditgate.com/search/search.aspx?AP=&CompanyID=10285177&CompanyType=L">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - no extra services over companies house- hard sales of paid-for services that are often free at Companies House<br />
<br />
http://www.datalog.co.uk - I can't open their site but a cached version says it covers "British, American, Canadian and Irish companies", with US companies from "Alaska, Colorado, Iowa, Ohio, Texas, NY, Virginia, Rhode Island, Michigan, Oregan, Washington and Wyoming."<br />
<br />
<a href="http://do-business.net/sbc/Company/Search">http://do-business.net/sbc/Company/Search</a> based on Dunn and Bradstreet's database rather than Companies House, and so able to cover some sole traders who can apply for a DUNS number. No information given free except a name and address. Free monitoring of a few companies is available.<br />
<br />
http://www.duedil.co.uk - <a href="https://www.duedil.com/company/gb/10285177/nonleather-distribution-ltd">Nonleather Distribution Ltd</a> - now charge for previously free services<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.opencorporates.com/">http://www.opencorporates.com</a> - covers so many juristictions that there are too many to list, starting with Abhu Dhabi. Cross-references to London Gazette and other similar</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-82875877392465268072016-04-18T19:50:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:22:48.715+01:00economics: open mike<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Open Mike: a site for economics</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">A site called <a href="http://www.ecnmy.org/">http://www.ecnmy.org</a>/ has set-up to promote economics contributions from a range of people, if not face to face discussion; I haven't quite got the hang of it yet in terms of who it's aimed at and what contributions help; it looks a bit like an alternative to a first economics textbook, rather like <a href="https://www.core-econ.org/">http://www.core-econ.org</a>. Neither has a search function that I can find.<br />
<br />
I wrote a general post about discussions but didn't like it the next morning and put something better in its place, which is also a new paragraph on <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">better economics teaching post</a>. It is an extra theory beyond the ideas of a "public good" that economics textbooks quote as justifying a compulsory tax or subscription to a service. I think it's essential to understanding state spending.</blockquote><h3><span style="color: red;">national insurance / social insurance / social security / welfare state<br />
an introduction</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><b><span style="color: red;">Why?</span></b><br />
Private payment plans exist for a lot of the things that the state provides - everyday health care, school fees, pensions, annuities, insurance against risks like car accidents, flood, fire, theft, and short term loss of earnings - including the famous PPI scheme. <br />
<br />
Assuming these plans are as efficient as a state scheme, they have a problem: you can't afford them on a low-paid job. Put another way: people without these costs can under-cut you. So lower-paid people need a law to say that everybody has some kind of payment plan, otherwise next to nobody will. (That's a problem when people in a sweatshop country like Bangladesh compete with people in the UK to do factory jobs, or when those same people note the disparity of working conditions, and try econonomic migration.)<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">When?</span></b><br />
Parts of Germany had a compulsory insurance system for employed people from 1868. The UK and Ireland had compulsory membership of insurance schemes from the National Insurance Act of 1911 (Imperial governments like Bangladesh in India did not follow). India got a basic hospital insurance scheme for people in formal employment from 1948. <strike>I don't know where to look-up what system exists in what country</strike>. Some of the current systems are listed on <a href="http://www.spicker.uk/">Spicker.uk</a> <br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">How?</span></b><br />
Compulsory insurance does not have to be part of the tax and benefit system, but the public sector can privide the cheapest deal. It is, generally, efficient at vast uniform activities, saving the costs of sales, accounting, and assessment that make up a big chunk of private insurance costs. The brokers' fee for motor insurance used to be about 50% in the first year for example, when my dad tried doing it. There is also a lot of saving in hospital admission costs: you just have to prove that you are sick to get admission, rather than remember your insurance details. The NHS is much cheaper than the US system of healthcare. I don't know figures for how cheap it is to another couple of universal benefits - pensions and family allowance - but I imagine it is practically free because a computer can do most of the work. <br />
<b><br />
</b> <b><span style="color: red;">What does "welfare" mean?</span></b><br />
Nothing. It is a slippery word. It slipped into the idea of a "welfare state" I guess because the UK 1948 system paid staff to help the unemployed get interviews and nanny them about in a rather awkward way - quite different to the insurance-like gist of the system. The jargon at the time for unemployment benefits was National Insurance and National Assistance, the first being contributions-based and a higher rate and the second being based on low savings and income and at a lower rate. Vestiges survived in two rates of income support last time I looked. Oh there's another word which I think comes from Woodrow Wilson's "Social Security Tax" invented in the 1930s. Again it doesn't mean anything financial.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">Is universal insurance good?</span></b><br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Meerkat_(Suricata_suricatta)_Tswalu.jpg/250px-Meerkat_(Suricata_suricatta)_Tswalu.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="A picture of some meerkats. Shown because the UK is fond of meerkat-based advertising of an insurance comparison web site. Meerkats have east european accents and complain that their long entrepreneurial history is over-looked by people who find their site by mistake while seaching for cheap deal on your car insurance" border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Meerkat_(Suricata_suricatta)_Tswalu.jpg/250px-Meerkat_(Suricata_suricatta)_Tswalu.jpg" title="" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Meerkats get cheap deal from national insurance</td></tr>
</tbody></table><br />
You do not have to pay for a parallel system to keep the old sick and young uninsured off the streets; the people born with learning difficulties or the people who have never earned enough to insure, or who migrate-in from some very different system, nor to run a third system again for people you think are feckless free-riders rather than unlucky. <br />
<br />
Also it is cheap deal! Specially if done by government or something similar in having one big computer, lots of existing information, and a lot of direct debits and credits to make into bank accounts according to age or some simply-checked claim. <br />
<br />
If you consider health and education as insurance-like services, because they are used at parts of our life-cycles and not at others, then there are more good side effects. This idea overlaps with the idea of a "Merit Good" quoted in countries where they don't have national insurance but still pay a bit out of taxes for hospitals.<br />
<br />
Mothers with access to secondary schools and health services tend to have fewer children and later in life. Parents who expect a basic pension and care in old age have less incentive to have a lot of children, which, in Bangladesh, it is common to do because you want them to look after you in old-age. So a cycle of poverty fuelling over-population tends not to happen when there is social insurance. Both China and Bangladeshi governments agree with this point of view. China has a "one child" policy and Bangladeshi government sends health advisors to go and persuade the poor to have smaller families, but neither yet has universal healthcare and pensions. I understand that the Bangladeshi system is like Victorian Britain: there are teaching hospitals with some state subsidy that keep bodies off the streets in the towns, and a referral system that tries to get fair access to them for people out of town. A good Victorian system to be proud of, but one that was improved-on decades and hundreds of years ago by better governments.<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">Problem: cost of means testing or admin still exists for some benefits</span></b><br />
Costs mount-up again for means-tested benefits, for which you have to prove something like low income and affordable rent (for housing benefit) or unemployment and active seeking for work (for dole). The BBC published a guide to the cost of removing child benefit to wealthier mothers which I am not sure how to find on the net, but makes the point about means-testing being expensive in admin and universal benefits being a cheap deal.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
</span> <b><span style="color: red;">Problem: the state thinks the money is theres and runs the scheme like a charity</span></b><br />
Where the state nationalises the system as in the UK in 1948, it tends to regard the money as its own, paid straight out of the current account as a favour, and this idea creeps into the methods of administration and political decisions such as benefit sanctions or housing benefit cuts. When I was at college, Edwina Curry MP came to give a talk. She mentioned how hard she had worked to persuade the civil service to give up the notional "national insurnance fund" that still exisited at the time. <br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: red;">Problem: the state doesn't plan ahead</span></b><br />
Private insurance and pension systems try to have an expert who guesses how long pensioners will live or how many accidents will happen. An absent-minded government can forget that and then leave MPs to say, with a straight face, that there is "a problem of an ageing population", as though they only discovered just recently that people get older. They can accept taxes or national insurance payments for years, and then decide they'd rather spend the money on The Olympics instead.<br />
<b><br />
</b> <b><span style="color: red;">Problem: structural imbalances</span></b><br />
Insurance can only be made compulsory in one country at a time. What if someone moves? Or thousands and thousands of prople in one direction? What if someone works cheaply in Rana Plaza in order to sell cheap goods in Rochdale, where their cousins have to pay national insurance and VAT? Governments have not been good at solving this problem, mainly because their MPs studied bad textbooks at college which don't mention social insurance. As a result we have a mixture of sweat-shop and non sweat-shop countries in the world, with most of the goods made in the sweatshops and poverty not always reducing in those countries. One brief attempt to build-in a "social clause" into tariffs, requiring something in return for low tariff access to trading blocks like the EU, was quickly shouted down by sweatshop governments. Attempts to defend trade and industry in states with social insurance, by building tariff barriers, are generally dismissed by economists as something that tabloid readers want and that government should not give-in to.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
<b>Oh I don't know lots of stuff</b></span><br />
I'm so ignorant I don't know where experts on this subject write. Maybe under the heading "social security", or "comparative social security systems" or something of that kind<b>. </b>The Beveridge Report probably has something about it. My mum explained a bit<b>. Just found an expert link:<br />
<a href="http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/socialsecurity.htm">http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/socialsecurity.htm</a><br />
</b></fieldset></blockquote><h3><span style="color: red;">My economics textbook says <strike>nothing</strike> little except under very odd headings</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><div style="text-align: left;">They are different to those taught in history or subjects like social work; they are just odd covers for a failure to engage with reality. I have just found a concept of payment related benefits slipped-in to my textbook half way through an obscure chaptor on taxation, and not indexed. It seems to contradict the points made more strongly that come-over from the US edition of the same book.</div></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Public Goods<br />
Income redistribution from the rich to the poor in one year [not over a life-cycle] as one reason for "Transfer Payments".<br />
Merit Goods and Bads<br />
Aid Trade and the badness of tariffs round welfare states.</fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Notes in progress about <a href="http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/socialsecurity.htm">social policy</a>, a <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/Subject-benchmark-statement-Social-policy-and-administration.pdf">subject</a> I had previously not heard of, which covers the welfare state and ought to shove some very clear economic theory up economists' trousers, but doesn't.</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>5.4<br />
Threshold graduates will be able to demonstrate:<br />
z<br />
well-developed descriptive skills and basic analytic skills<br />
z<br />
an ability to distinguish between some of the core theories, concepts and<br />
approaches in social policy - reasons for universal benefits and contributions-based approach to benefits - need for tariff boundaries around areas with a national<br />
z<br />
a basic ability to seek out, use and evaluate data derived from social surveys and<br />
other research publications<br />
z<br />
a basic ability to undertake investigations of social questions, issues and problems<br />
z<br />
a sufficient grasp of research methods and their application to enable them tocomment on research evidence<br />
<br />
Typical graduate<br />
Knowledge and understanding<br />
5.6<br />
Typical social policy graduates will be able to demonstrate a thorough knowledge,<br />
critical and systematic understanding of key aspects of social policy including a critical understanding of the functioning of the institutions of the UK welfare state and at least some of the other welfare systems operating in other parts of the world. They will be able to demonstrate an ability to review, consolidate, extend and apply their knowledge and understanding across a wide range of social policy issues and be able to reflect critically on ideas that are presented in teaching and in relevant literature.<br />
Subject-specific skills<br />
5.7<br />
Typical graduates will be able to demonstrate: <br />
z<br />
well-developed descriptive and analytic skills<br />
z<br />
an ability to understand the core theories, concepts and approaches in <br />
social policy and a clear ability to distinguish among them<br />
z<br />
an understanding, and ability to reflect upon, the underlying value base of many<br />
policy proposals and distinguish clearly between normative and empirical arguments<br />
z<br />
a sufficient grasp of research methods and their application to enable them to<br />
comment on research evidence<br />
z<br />
a strong familiarity with a range of research methods and an ability to reflect<br />
critically on their use in various research studies. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">economics teaching - some related posts</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a student in the 1980s <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Bad Economics Teaching</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s</a> </fieldset></blockquote><hr /></div><hr /><br />
This is one reason why I blog. After looking for EU-funded regional development schemes after illness in 2002-5, I found that London ones had been diverted to a campaign against local manufacturing and in favour of a membership organisation with public subsidy. It was probably linked to Millenium Development Goals and the aftermath of Make Poverty History - in fact <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/">Pants to Poverty is quite open about this as an origin</a>. It preached that tariffs around welfare states are bad, payments by taxpayers in such states to schemes in Bangladesh or maybe steelworks in China are good, and that social insurance is not a fit topic to discuss when talking about poverty in Bangladesh. I didn't want to talk about poverty in Bangladesh; I wanted schemes like London Fashion Week and Esthetica, the room that sounds like "ethical" but isn't, to close-down and for government to save the money or spend on a scheme of business support as intended. My web page on the subject has slipped down the rankings so I will give it a link: <a href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm">http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm</a> The page is headed "Ethical Fashion Forum: goods from badly-countries" I've added a heading to this link: "brands are over-done; ethical fashion blogs don't mention national insurance, ethical fashion companies seem a bit glib and to ignore UK manufacturing as the main priority, ethical fashion definitions are rigged by a house of lords committee and a group at London College of Fashion sponsored by Nike, ethical fashion designers are a daft idea because you have to make the stuff". So now you know. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Related:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html</a><br />
International students' effect on providers in expensive areas who provide the worst courses<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset></blockquote><hr /><hr /></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-27484145710664970472016-04-13T15:58:00.008+01:002018-10-21T10:22:55.679+01:00economic crisis<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div>
<hr />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<blockquote>
<h2>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><i>Its Past and Future - UK 1984 edition</i></span></h2>
</blockquote>
</div>
<h2 style="text-align: center;">
</h2>
<div style="text-align: center;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><a href="https://twitter.com/KeithSm49353997">KEITH SMITH</a> </span></h3>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/british-economic-crisis-its-past-and-future/oclc/19324456" title="ISBN 9780140225020">This out of print 1984 paperback</a> is transcribed here without permission, because it reads like Robert Peston's missing volume 1: what happened before the banking boom. There is a pirate note at the end. A later 1989 edition had an extra chapter, not yet found to transcribe. The cover calls the book "A new three-part introduction to the British economy - the background, current theories and possible future". </span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><br />
<b>The British Economic Crisis</b> by<b></b> was published by Pelican, ISBN: 978014022813</span></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">Introduction</span> </h3>
</blockquote>
<hr />
There is a significant difference between economic problems and an economic crisis. All economies face more or less severe problems, all of the time. Some may result from the basic structure of the system itself, such as the 'cycles' of unemployment and recession which plague capitalist economies: they are due in large part to the absence of any central coordination in and between such economics. Socialist economics, built on central coordination and planning, are stable by comparison, and rarely face problems of unemployment. Yet their very centralization generates other problems: enterprises are often inefficient compared with those of the capitalist world, perhaps because they lack the spur of competition, and they find difficulties in generating and sustaining real technological progress. Added to these inherent structural features, countries often have problems due to accidents of nature or geography - shortages of natural resources, for example, or problems of climate. Then there may be difficulties deriving from the framework of institutions and policies and pressures within which the economy functions: the absence of a centralized pay-bargaining system makes the operation of the British economy very different from that of Sweden, for example, where pay is often settled at a national level for whole groups of industries simultaneously. There may be problems from unpredictable shocks to the system, such as the OPEC price rises of 1973-4, or the chaos caused in the international financial system by the way the United States financed its war effort in Viemam. Finally there are problems arising from mistakes in decision-making. The Concorde project, or the Russian TU144, or the West German construction of a nuclear-powered merchant ship - which turned out to require an annual operating subsidy of several million pounds - are examples. If <br />
<br />
12 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
the projects are big enough, and if such mistakes occur often enough, the economic consequences can be very serious. <br />
<br />
The mere existence of problems like these - even in severe forms - does not indicate a crisis. It would, in fact, be wildly unrealistic to think of an economy functioning without at least some of the difficulties sketched above. A crisis, in the sense the term is used in this book, is something more, for it is not a matter of problems within an economic system, but a question of the viability of the system itself. A crisis occurs when the types of activity on which an economy is based, and the levels of income which it generates, are no longer sustainable. To put it a different way, one could say that economic problems - of the kinds outlined above - can be lived with, they can be adapted to, but a crisis entails inevitable change. Large-scale transformation becomes unavoidable, and this can take the form either of a positive attempt to overcome the critical difficulties (which may not necessarily involve any earth-shattering upheavals), or a process of decline and maybe collapse. There are plenty of historical examples of these paths. Should, however, the current predicament of the British economy be interpreted as a crisis of this type? No one can deny that the situation is serious. Yet there are a number of ways in which it could be read. One argument is that we are indeed in the throes of a crisis, but that the positive response has already begun. Britain is even now engaged in a process of transition in which the seeds of future success are being sown: this was the view taken by Sir Geoffrey Howe - then Chancellor of the Exchequer - in his speech at the Mansion House to an audience of City bankers and merchants in late 1982: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There is plenty of economic pessimism about, at home and abroad. In this country and throughout the world, there are those who question whether there can ever be a return to prosperity ... But I am certain that the problems we sec are those of change, not of decay. To be sure, transition is painful and the pace of recovery slow. But ... long overdue change, evolution, innovation are at last being willingly embraced: we are on the right path. </blockquote>
On the other hand there are people who disagree sharply with Sir Geoffrey, yet who share his faith in the viability of the present economic system in Britain. They might be described as being, to use <br />
<br />
INTRODUCTION • 13 <br />
a cant term, in the 'centre' of British politics (meaning they can be found in large numbers in all of the political parties). For them the economic structure within which Britain has functioned since the late 1940s remains workable: what is needed is a change of government, and a modification or reversal of `Thatcherite' policies, and recovery will follow. It is thus the policies which are being carried out within the present economic framework which are the problem, not the framework itself. <br />
<br />
This book shares neither of these views. It argues that the recession of the late 1970s and early 1980s marks a fundamental turning-point, for it has been superimposed on a long-term economic decay which has now reached a point of no return. The weak and hesitant recovery from the recession may continue into the mid 1980s, but cannot resolve Britain's industrial and economic crisis: the economic structure with which Britain emerged from the Second World War, and which carried the country with some success and much failure through the 1950s and 1960s, is no longer workable. The British economy is indeed in crisis; without far-reaching changes further sharp decline is inevitable within the near future and if it occurs may well prove irreversible. <br />
<br />
The following chapters explain why this is so. They begin with a description of Britain's relatively poor economic performance over a long historical period, and establish why this poor performance now has the dimensions of a genuine crisis. Britain's economy, and the jobs and living standards of everyone in Britain, have for many years been dependent upon a complex system of foreign trade and inter-national economic relationships; within this system the manufacturing sector of the British economy has played a crucial role. The importance of the 'de-industrialization' of Britain since the mid 1960s lies in the fact that the relationship between Britain's foreign trade and its manufacturing capability has now broken down. Only the fortuitous emergence of North Sea oil has enabled Britain to continue as though nothing has happened. When oil output declines, as it will in the very near future, Britain will face desperate economic problems. Understanding why this impasse has been reached requires not just a description of the course of Britain's ever more precipitous decline, but also the development of some theoretical ideas in order to explain <br />
<br />
14 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
it. These are mainly to do with the nature of economic growth, with the relationship between economic growth and technological change, and with the interaction between growth, technological change, and the external performance of the economy. Economics is not, unfortunately, a field in which theoretical ideas can be altogether avoided. But the issues are not, even for non-specialists, necessarily difficult to understand, and those which are outlined in the first chapters will form the basis for interpreting the decline which will be described in subsequent chapters. Part One of this book is concerned, therefore, with an account of the 'Thatcher recession' of 1979-81, set against the background of the long-term decline which it has accelerated rather than solved. Part Two deals with the theoretical foundations of economic policy, concentrating on the so-called Monetarist-Keynesian debates of recent years; it is argued that the confrontation between them is frequently spurious, and to a very considerable extent irrelevant to the serious economic problems Britain faces. Finally, problems of industrial recovery are discussed, with an argument for an active policy of government intervention for industrial reconstruction, along the lines of that carried out in Japan, whose highly successful methods of industrial intervention are described in detail. <br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidVii6KibLEt_MCzOjWY2hnRdoQ7oT7cNuzLEEe8iwGIdhiZ_tCyGxFtGy6g3tJjxDJML4ac2l6CbXourgqLLgoRNtaoA5_q-aV6qgSk5RCP2_EflazKsZiKTfPqNoDvBMoHYIc40fYacy/s1600/9780140225020.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Book cover showing number 11 Downing Street boarded-up and abandoned" border="0" height="468" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidVii6KibLEt_MCzOjWY2hnRdoQ7oT7cNuzLEEe8iwGIdhiZ_tCyGxFtGy6g3tJjxDJML4ac2l6CbXourgqLLgoRNtaoA5_q-aV6qgSk5RCP2_EflazKsZiKTfPqNoDvBMoHYIc40fYacy/s640/9780140225020.jpg" title="The British Economic Crisis" width="640" /></a><br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">PART ONE :</span></span></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"> </span></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"> </span><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red;">THE CRISIS</span></span></span> </span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>1 </i></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"> <span style="color: red;"><i>The Crisis Behind the Recession</i></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
The word 'crisis' has become slightly overused in Britain in the past few years. The main reason, of course, is that Britain's economic performance since the advent of Mrs Thatcher - especially between 1979 and 1981 when the economy entered a major recession - has seemed so much worse than what came before. In many ways it is indeed much worse, and this will be described in detail below. Unfortunately, implicit in a lot of recent crisis talk is the idea that overcoming it simply means reversing the economic effects of Mrs Thatcher, and getting back to the general trend of economic develop-ment, the forms of economic administration, and the kinds of social priorities which preceded her. However, it should be remembered that the economic situation which Mrs Thatcher inherited was in fact a grim one. Unemployment had been on an upward track for over a decade, inflation (though well down from its mid 1970s peak) was again rising, and manufacturing industry was shedding jobs and per-forming poorly in export markets. Many of the nationalized indus-ries, and quasi-nationalized industries such as British Leyland, were in deep trouble. The National Health Service and public services generally were starved of funds and investment. So, simply on these grounds, the idea that the crisis is purely to do with Margaret Thatcher is mistaken. But it follows, at the same time, that if the Thatcher administration or any other government were to return Britain to the pre-Thatcher level of 1979, the British people would have little to celebrate, for that year was the end-point of a prolonged decline. It was a good year only in comparison with what was to follow. <br />
<br />
So the UK economy suffers from two separable processes: a short-term recession - which might be called the 'Thatcher recession' - and a long-run decline. The mechanisms at work in these processes were <br />
<br />
<br />
18 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
quite different, and recovery from one set of problems does not mean recovery from the other.<br />
<br />
However, if Margaret Thatcher is not responsible for the real economic crisis which faces Britain, this does not mean that the economic effects of her administration are not serious. In late 1979, primarily as a result of her policies, the economy entered a recession which bears comparison with the 'Great Depression' of the 1930s. Since 1979, unemployment has increased by approximately 250 per cent. In the two years from mid 1979 to mid 1981, manufacturing output fell by 18 per cent, while overall national income fell by 71 per cent. These falls are bigger, and happened faster, than those of the Great Depression. And it should be remembered that these figures, dramatic though they are, are merely averages, which means that while some industries and areas are better off than the figures indicate, others have been hit much harder. Regions such as Scotland, Wales, the West Midlands and the North West, and cities such as Liverpool, have far higher than average unemployment. Industries such as metal manufacturing (output down 25 per cent between 1979 and 1981), textiles (down 26 per cent), clothing and shoes (down 21 per cent), timber and furniture (down 21 per cent) and general metal goods (down 26 per cent) were especially badly affected. Even such normally strong performers as mechanical engineering (down 16 per cent) and chemicals (down 9 per cent) were hard hit. New housing starts in 1980 were 165,000 fewer than in 1970, after ten years of rising population and increasing need (and the fall in building occurs in the context of an increasingly decrepit housing stock). In 1980 also, over 27,000 companies went into liquidation, as opposed to 6,000 in 1977 and about 5,000 in 1978. These are signs of an economy in serious trouble. Why did it happen? <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE 'THATCHER RECESSION'</span></h4>
We can start, perhaps, with a paradoxical feature of the post-1979 recession. This is that the large falls in manufactured output and in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) - or total output produced in Britain - were not accompanied by falls in total personal incomes or consumer spending. As the recession took hold in 1980, GDP began a steady <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION • 19 <br />
decline, manufacturing output fell sharply, and employment fell spectacularly: yet personal disposable income (that is, the total of all individual incomes after tax) actually rose, as did total expenditure by consumers. Even when disposable income finally fell slightly - by about 2 per cent in t981 - consumer expenditure continued to increase. So the recession did not take the form of falling incomes and demand by consumers. <br />
<br />
Yet since a recession is nothing other than a decline in output - either absolutely, or in terms of its rate of growth - it must mean that somewhere along the line the consumption of output is slowing down or falling. For one reason or another, one of the end users of output is demanding and consuming less, and falling production and employment are a response to that falling demand. So where did this happen in Britain? Apart from consumer demand, the other major categories of final demand are capital formation (expenditure on such things as new buildings, machines, equipment, etc.), government expenditure and exports. However, all of these remained more or less stable. To find the main cause of the recession we need to look to another source of demand, one which is in fact <i>within</i> the very companies which are producing output. This is a demand for <i>inventory</i>, or stocks of goods: that is, the stocks of raw materials, semi-completed products and completed output which firms hold for various reasons. To see why this 'stockpile' demand collapsed, we need to look first at the broad objectives of Thatcherite policy, then at the measures used to achieve those objectives, and finally at the effects of those measures on companies in Britain. <br />
<br />
The Thatcher government came to office committed to the defeat of inflation as its primary goal; this was part of a wider programme for restoring market forces and market values as the basis of 'sustainable growth'. The first step, reduced inflation, was to be achieved through controlling the quantity of money in the system. How to control the money stock is, among economists at least, a vexed question; indeed there is hardly agreement on what the money stock actually is. Unassailed by doubts, however, the government decided on a double-barrelled strategy. On the one hand this was aimed at controlling the supply of money (controlling, in particular, the activities which caused governments to want to expand the money supply), <br />
<br />
<br />
20 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
and on the other hand controlling the <i>demand </i>for money (meaning, in practice, restricting the demand for credit from banks). The guilty party in expanding the money supply, it was argued, was government borrowing. The problem was a gap between government spending and its income from taxation; this gap, which has averaged between five and ten billion pounds per year in recent years, is the budget deficit, the basis of the 'Public Sector Borrowing Requirement' (PSBR). So the policy decision was to attempt to restrict spending and thus cut borrowing. This would both inhibit monetary growth, and also lower interest rates (since when the government borrows it naturally pays interest, and excessive borrowing - it was argued - raises interest rates). <br />
<br />
The attempt to restrict the impact of the PSBR on interest rates was important, for a related measure in the government's monetary control policy was a rise in interest rates. One of the ideas behind this is that the banking system is in effect capable of creating money through the overdraft system. The way to restrict the demand for overdraft credit is to raise its cost. Thus a lower quantity of money implies an increase in interest rates. This rise occurred: the 'base rate' for bank overdrafts was 12 per cent when the government took office; it subsequently rose by 2 per cent, then another 3 per cent, and stayed in the range 16-17 per cent through most of 1980. <br />
<br />
This policy had a devastating effect on industrial and commercial companies in Britain. Since most companies were unable to raise prices in line with the interest rate increases, it amounted to a sharp increase in their costs. This affected in particular the source of demand referred to above, namely for inventory or stocks within the company sector of the economy. <br />
<br />
Industrial companies normally maintain three kinds of inventory. They are, firstly, raw materials - these are held in order to even out possible fluctuations in availability, so that a regular supply of inputs is available. Secondly, there is work in progress, semi-completed output. Finally, there are finished goods - firms may want to meet fluctuations in demand which cannot be met out of current output, and will maintain stocks of their product for that purpose. Thus a steel mill will keep stocks of iron ore, oxygen, etc., beyond its im-mediate requirements; a ear assembly plant will have stocks of sheet <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND TIIE RECESSION • 91 <br />
steel, wheels, engines and so on, and a ear company might hold a quantity of finished cars. These stocks can be large: in recent years they have been equivalent to about 30 per cent of total annual output. <br />
<br />
But the problem with stocks is that they must be paid for. Both raw materials and the labour which turns them into components or finished products are normally paid for before the product is finally sold. Frequently, therefore; companies borrow in order to finance both current production and stockbuilding. In recent years they have done so increasingly through bank overdrafts, often on a very large scale. <br />
<br />
For companies running large overdrafts, the government's monetary policy, and the interest rate rises which it entailed, was a disaster. Borrowing costs increased dramatically as interest rates reached 20 per cent. At the same time, companies faced increased wage and salary costs (as we saw above, personal incomes were on the whole rising during this period). Even though inflation was running at quite high levels, few companies were able to raise prices in line with it: in 1979 the big price rise was oil, and in 1980 it was nationalized industries and VAT increases which accounted for much of the increases in industrial prices. The evidence indicates that manufacturing companies, particularly in export industries, were raising prices at rates below the inflation rate. With costs rising fast, and prices not matching them, something had to give, and it was company profits. The average post-tax real rate of return almost halved in 1980, to the very low level of 2.9 per cent for non North Sea companies. Many firms began making losses. <br />
<br />
Under these circumstances, firms reacted in the obvious and logical way: they attempted to lower their current costs by reducing their current output. Firms began to supply finished goods not by producing them but by running down their stocks of such goods. Simultaneously, they reduced their stocks of raw materials, which lowered the anent demand for such materials. This lowering of current output led rapidly and inevitably to reductions in the workforce. The object of the exercise was to cut day-to-day running costs and to reduce debts to the banks, but the effect was to create a recession. For the amounts involved were very substantial: in 1980 the turnaround in inventories was approximately 43.5 billion, or 3.2 per cent of GDP. <br />
<br />
<br />
22 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
This alone more than accounted for the overall fall in output. The government had, in effect, created this response by attacking the financial positions of companies. <br />
<br />
So the monetary policy, operating through interest rates, produced an immediate recession. This was compounded by a further effect of high interest rates, namely a rise in the value of the pound. One feature of the world economy is the existence of large quantities of 'free-floating' capital which moves wherever interest rates are highest. When the interest rate rises, the foreign exchange markets either reflect a movement of such capital into Britain, or anticipate it. This happened: the exchange rate rose sharply. Since this meant that the pound was exchanging for more dollars, Deutschmarks, etc., then it also meant that the foreign currency prices of British exports were also rising. This meant problems for export industries, not so much in the short term (because most export goods are ordered well in advance) as in the winning of new orders. Prices of British goods abroad are determined by three factors; firstly, their costs of production - especially labour costs - inside Britain, secondly exporters' profit margins, and thirdly the exchange rate which links Britain to the rest of the world economy. In 1980 both costs and the exchange rate were rising, and British goods became much less competitive in price terms (though it should be borne in mind that 'non-price competition', in terms of quality, design, meeting of delivery dates etc., is also extremely important in export markets). Between the beginning of 1979 and the end of 1980, the so-called 'effective exchange rate' rose 21.6 per cent and wage and salary costs per unit of output in manufacture rose 36.6 per cent. This added up to a decline in the competitiveness of British goods, according to the International Monetary Fund measure, of about 50 per cent: a change almost un-precedented over such a short period. In the face of these developments, exports held up fairly well, mainly due to exporters making great efforts to keep their prices down - export prices rose by well under half the rise in costs of production. But imports soared, since the stronger pound made them relatively cheaper; the recession intensified as British producers began to lose out in their own home market.<br />
<br />
The other key element in the Thatcher government's economic <br />
<br />
<br />
TIIE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION • 23 <br />
strategy has been an attempt to control and reduce government spending. The argument here was that government spending was at an excessive level, which both inhibited the operation of the free market economy (by distorting demand and raising interest rates) and fuelled inflation through the government borrowing which such spending entailed. Two points should be made about this attempt. The first is that total public expenditure has not significantly fallen; in fact as a proportion of national income it has risen under Mrs Thatcher. This is partly because the recessionary impact of the monetary policy has simultaneously increased the government's ex-penditure (on social security and unemployment benefit, for instance) and reduced its income from taxes (for when employment and income falls, the government's tax take falls). But also the government has not attempted to cut expenditure so much as redistribute it: away from some areas (such as education) and towards others (such as defence). This has altered the pattern of government demand for goods and services, with important impacts on some suppliers. The second point is that there has been a sharp fall in capital expenditure by the government: that is to say, programmes of construction and renewal of equipment and buildings have been curtailed. In 1981 such capital spending had fallen by almost 40 per cent from the 1979 level, and by about 60 per cent from the level of ten years before. This is an important aspect of the massive decline in the construction industry.<br />
<span style="color: red;"> </span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A WORLD RECESSION? </span></h4>
The analysis of the Thatcher recession presented above has emphasized the effects on Britain of its own government's policy. This approach stands in sharp contrast to the government's account of the recession, which leans heavily on the existence of a <i>'world recession'</i>. This works simultaneously as a defence of Mrs Thatcher (everyone else is facing the same difficulties as us, therefore it can't be her fault) and as an explanation of our problems, a description of their cause (we are suffering unemployment because the world recession is hurting our economy). To what extent is this government account plausible? <br />
<br />
<br />
24 THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
There is no doubt that the international environment, at the time the Thatcher government began to implement its policies, had taken a turn for the worse. The price of oil had risen by 45 per cent between 1978 and 1979, and by a further 68 per cent in the following year. There was a slowdown in the growth of world trade. Interest rates were fluctuating sharply but also moving upwards in Europe and the USA. And all of this was occurring against the background of general instability and slow growth in the world economy in the 1970s. <br />
<br />
Can such developments account for the British recession? Here it is worth asking the obvious question, namely, in what ways can international trends affect the British economy? Two possibilities stand out. The first is that the international economy is for some reason contracting, and this is leading to either a slowdown in the growth of demand for UK exports, or an actual decline in the demand for British goods. This would almost certainly push Britain into a recession. The other possibility is that world interest rates might rise, forcing Britain to keep pace, and that this would depress the UK economy, possibly through the kinds of mechanisms outlined in the section above on the 'Thatcher recession'. <br />
<br />
Only the second of these possibilities seems to have any plausibility. The UK government was, as we have seen, committed to a rise in interest rates because they believed this would help in controlling monetary growth. A rise in world rates might then mean that British rates would have to rise by more than previously would have been necessary to achieve the same effect. On theoretical grounds this could easily be disputed, but it should also be said that, since the government had the option of not adopting this policy, it could have avoided excessive interest rate rises, and therefore it can't blame its problems on the world economy. The first possibility — a decline in demand for British goods — can also be discounted. This is because, although world trade slowed down in 1979, it was in fact still growing. The crux of the Thatcher recession was a decline in manufacturing, yet world trade in manufactures grew by 5.7 per cent in 1979 and by 4.6 per cent in 1980; this could not, therefore, be the cause of Britain's manufacturing troubles. And in general the so-called world recession took this form: slowdowns in growth rather than the absolute falls suffered by Britain. Table 1, which compares Britain with the countries <br />
<br />
THE. CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION 25 <br />
of the of OECD (i.e. Britain's major industrialized neighbours: the USA, Japan, W. Germany, France, Italy and Canada), shows this clearly for income and employment<br />
<br />
<br />
<i>Table 1 . Changes in income and employment (%) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
1980 1981 1982</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">National income</span><br />
-2.1 -2.2 +1.25 Britain<br />
+1.0 +1.2 +0.5 OECD average<br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Employment</span><br />
-2.3 -4.7 -2.5 Britain<br />
+0.5 +0.1 -0.5 OECD average</span><br />
<i><br />
Source: OECD Economic Outlook, July 1982 Table 5, p.20. </i><br />
<br />
<br />
At a time when employment was falling by 7 per cent in Britain, it was actually increasing among the UK's OECD partners. Since then the picture has worsened in those countries. Yet two simple points should be made about the development of the world recession. The first concerns timing. The world recession is relatively recent, and Britain entered its own recession <i>before </i>the world recession really got going; on chronological grounds alone it seems difficult to make the world recession the source of Britain's troubles. Secondly, we should remember that all countries have faced much the same sort of international problems. Yet the other OECD countries, facing the same international environment, have not suffered recession on anything like the British scale; Britain's unemployment and output losses have been quite disproportionately greater than those of any other advanced country. Once again, the conclusion is that Britain's problems cannot be laid at the door of a world slump. Mrs Thatcher needs some other line of defence. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CAN THE 'THATCHER RECESSION' BE REVERSED? </span></h4>
<br />
The primary impact of the 1979-81 recession, therefore, was on the financial position of companies. In response to a monetary squeeze, <br />
<br />
26 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
and high interest rates, they contracted their output and their em-ployment, and satisfied both their customers and their bank managers by running down their stocks of goods, and their inventories of raw materials and work in progress. As earnings - for those in work - continued to rise, profits fell sharply. <br />
<br />
The running-down of inventories explains why a collapse in output has not entailed a collapse in consumption (at least not yet). Perhaps it explains also what many people regard as a certain apathy on the part of the British public in the face of the recession. The absence of protest and unrest is to do with the absence of harmful effects. It is only relatively small minorities who have been really hurt by the recession: the poor, the unemployed, the industrial capitalists. <br />
<br />
One conclusion which might be drawn from this account of the 'Thatcher recession' is that it is reversible. Lower interest rates, easier credit, a lower exchange rate, more government spending, perhaps some tax cuts: would not such a programme - in effect the reverse of that adopted by Mrs Thatcher so far - have exactly reverse effects? To some extent the answer must be yes: many industries are operating below capacity, and could respond to increased demand with increased output and employment. Increased government spending, particularly on construction, Might have a strongly stimulating effect on the economy. Even without positive measures for expansion, the economy is likely to grow from the depths of the recession, and this in fact began to appear in 1982 and 1983. But whether such growth can be sustained, and whether it constitutes a 'recovery' must remain doubtful. <br />
<br />
Two important problems should be kept in mind. The first is that so many firms in so many industries have collapsed or permanently contracted their capacity, that it must be problematic whether British manufacturing could actually respond to any sustained increase in demand. Historical experience suggests that it is far easier to contract output - to close down companies and factories - than it is to expand it so the Thatcher recession may not, purely on that score, be anything like fully reversible. The second problem is that of imports. British manufacturing appears increasingly unable to compete with imports of foreign goods, and there are good rounds for thinking that any expansion of demand will be spent primarily on imports. All the <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE. RECESSION • 27 <br />
current evidence suggests that this is the case, and thus any growth in incomes will do little to alleviate the problems of unemployment and stagnation in UK manufacturing. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">INFLATION AND PRODUCTIVITY: A SUCCESS STORY? </span></h4>
In the face of the recession, not everything has been gloomy for the government, however. It has been able to point to two indicators of the success of its policies: a fall in the inflation rate, from a peak of about 18 per cent per annum to under 5 per cent and falling, and an increase in manufacturing productivity (output per person per hour) of about 12 per cent from late 1979 to late 1982. Naturally enough, the government has seen these developments as the harbingers of recovery. To what extent is this interpretation justified? <br />
<br />
The main difficulty in interpreting the inflation and productivity figures lies in the fact that they have occurred during a very deep recession, and this prompts questions about whether they will be maintained in any recovery. In terms of the inflation rate, we would expect it to fall in a recession of this magnitude, since firms are desperate for markets and their prices will be constrained accordingly, while workers moderate their pay claims because of anxiety about unemployment. The inflation rate has also been helped by unusually low food prices in roll; an almost certainly transient phenomenon. It should be noted that the fall in the inflation rate has not been an effect of the government's monetary policy, which has not been particularly effective in controlling the money supply. Thus decreases in the inflation rate seem to stem more from the effects of recession than from strictly monetarist policy. Whether or not the inflationary process has been halted in Britain remains, therefore, an open question. At the moment, claims about success in beating inflation are premature: they will be justified only if inflation remains low when output recovers. <br />
<br />
The productivity question is more complex. Often, in recessions, productivity falls due to firms 'hoarding' labour (because it is often difficult to regain skilled labour quickly when the recession ends). So output falls more than the labour force, and consequently output per worker declines. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
28 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
However, the recession of 1979-81 was much more severe than the mild cyclical recessions of the past. Firms appeared to take the pessimistic — and apparently justified — view that recovery was a long way off; consequently they shed labour and closed down lines of production. At the same time many firms went out of business entirely. Now where this happened — where production lines or whole firms were closed down — one would expect that they were unprofit-able because their productivity was low. That is to say, they had less than average productivity. But it is an arithmetical truism to say that when less-than-average productivity processes close down, then average productivity rises for the economy as a whole. There may be no actual productivity increase in remaining firms — the whole thing would thus be a statistical illusion resulting from the disappearance of less-than-average-productivity firms and processes. Again, it is too soon to say that 'success' can be claimed. <br />
<br />
Leaving aside these hesitations, however, let us suppose that recovery really is under way, that the slow growth of late 1982 to early 1983 will be maintained, and that it will be possible to regain the output levels of late 1979, when the first effects of the Thatcher recession began to be felt. This implies an increase in national income of about 5 per cent, and an increase in manufacturing output of about 18 per cent from the bottom of the recession. No doubt this would be hailed as a major achievement, but it should be remembered that to return to the income and output levels of 1979, which marked Britain as the poorest and most decrepit of the advanced economies, would really be little cause for celebration, for at that time Britain was already the 'sick man of Europe', a vulnerable economy at the end of a long period of poor performance and relative decline. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE LONG-TERM CRISIS — 1945 AND AFTER </span></h4>
Tracing the post-war decline on which the Thatcher recession has been superimposed involves looking at the economy in a comparative context, setting its performance against those of its competitors. Because of the competitive trading environment in which Britain exists, the 'health' of the British economy depends not only, for example, on how fast productivity is growing within it, but also on how fast <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION • 29 <br />
productivity is growing relative to Britain's competitors. Britain is only geographically an island; economically it is tightly bound up with an international economy. International comparisons are not simply, therefore, of academic interest, they are part and parcel of understanding what is going wrong in the UK economy. <br />
<br />
The 'performance' of an economy is not necessarily easily captured in figures. How well an economy is working, for those who live within it, depends on a number of things including: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
(a) how fast it is growing; <br />
(b) how efficient it is, in getting the best from the resources available; <br />
(c) the level and growth of productivity, or output per person (which helps to determine competitiveness and levels of income); and <br />
(d) the distribution of income. </blockquote>
This section will concentrate on Britain's record in growth and productivity, both of which have been relatively poor. <br />
<br />
The post-war development of the world economy has consisted of two main phases of development. The first runs from approximately 1950, when the problems of post-war industrial reconstruction were at least beginning to be solved, to 1973, when the OPEC price rises installed a period of slower growth which has lasted to the present. In both of these major phases Britain's rates of economic growth were slower than those of comparable advanced economies, as Table 2 indicates. <br />
<br />
Clearly, in each of these periods, Britain's performance was well below average: in fact its growth rate, during the post-war boom, was the lowest of any industrialized country (though it was also, it should be added, the highest that Britain had ever achieved). In the post-1973 recession Britain's performance was second-worst: only Switzerland, which suffered a sharp though short-lived deterioration in its economy, did worse. The ratio between Britain's growth rate and the average growth rate declined during the post 1973 period (in 1950-73 the U K growth rate was approximately 40 per cent below the average growth rate; in 1973-9 it was 50 per cent below). One interpretation of this would be that Britain's performance in the seventies was not simply due to a slowdown in the world economy; but was also due to the fact that it handled the slowdown worse than other countries. <br />
<br />
<br />
30 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<br />
<i>Table 2. Growth of output 1950-79 (GDP, constant prices) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1950-73 1973-79 </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.7 2.5 Australia </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5.4 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>3.1 Austria </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.1 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.3 Belgium </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5.2 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>3.2 Canada </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.0 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.1 Denmark </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.9 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.3 Finland </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5.1 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>3.0 France </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">6.0 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.4 Germany </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5.5 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.6 Italy </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">9.7 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>4.1 Japan </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.8 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.4 Netherlands </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.0 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>4.4 Norway </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3.8 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>1.8 Sweden </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.5 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>-0.4 Switzerland </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3.0 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>1.3 UK </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3.7 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.7 USA </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.4</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>2.5 Average </span><br />
<i>Source: Angus Maddison, Phases of Capitalist Development, Oxford, 1982, Table 3.1, 45. </i><br />
<br />
Britain's performance in terms of productivity - or output per person - was also weak over these two periods. The level of productivity and the rate of growth of productivity matter for two central reasons. The first is that output per person has a large bearing on income per person, and hence on standards of living; it is not the only determinant of real income, but it is an important one. The extraordinary growth in the amounts of goods and services available to the populations of the advanced countries over the past hundred and fifty years is essentially clue to a dramatic growth in productivity. Looked at from another angle, productivity is a measure of efficiency, for it plays a significant part in fixing the costs at which output can be produced. In a competitive world - and a large proportion of Britain's output must compete, tither in export markets or against <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION • 31 <br />
imports within Britain - levels of productivity matter a great deal in determining the costs and hence competitiveness of products. <br />
<br />
Rates of growth of productivity are vitally important too. If two countries begin with approximately the same level of productivity, and one then has a higher growth rate of productivity, then the high growth country will tend to generate both higher incomes and lower prices and a competitive advantage. This process can become cumulative, with increasing disparities emerging between countries. This is indeed what has happened to Britain. Table 3, which looks again at the two broad stages in the post-war period, indicates something of the productivity gap. <br />
<br />
Once again there was a sharp slowdown in the second period, and once again Britain performed worse than average, and much worst <br />
<br />
<i>Table 3. Rates of productivity growth (%), 1950-79 (Annual average compound growth rates of GDP per man-hour) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1950-73 1973-79 <br />
2.6 2.6 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Australia </span><br />
5.9 3.8 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Austria </span><br />
4.4 4.2 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Belgium </span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
3.0 4.2 </span>Canada </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
4.3 1.6 </span>Denmark </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
5.2 1.7 </span>Finland </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
5.1 3.5 </span>France </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
6.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0</span> 4.2 </span>Germany </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
5.8 2.5 </span>Italy </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
8.0 3.9 </span>Japan </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
4.4 3.3 </span>Netherlands </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
4.2 3.9 </span>Norway </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
4.2 1.9 </span>Sweden <br />
3.4 1.3 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Switzerland </span><br />
3.1 2.1 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">UK </span><br />
2.6 1.4 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">USA </span><br />
4.5 2.7 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Average </span><br />
Source:Angus Maddison, <i>Phases of Capitalist Development</i>, Oxford, 1982, drawn from Table 5.1, p. 96. <br />
<br />
<br />
32 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
than its main industrial rivals (Germany, Japan, Italy, France) though rather better than the USA. This last phenomenon has a ready explanation, however. For most of the post-user period the USA has been the world technological leader, and one effect of this is that other countries could follow the US path, using US technologies without the pains and problems and costs of developing them. 'Follower' economics can thus often attain higher productivity growth rates than 'leader' economies, though they may not be able actually to overtake them. But Britain's productivity growth has rarely reached the rates achieved by other 'followers', and has in general been markedly lower than comparable economics. These figures of course refer to the whole economy; but it should be noted that the differ-entials in productivity have been confirmed by a number of studies at plant level, in which output per worker, even in similarly equipped plants producing similar products, has been shown to be markedly lower (by up to 50 per cent) in Britain. <br />
<br />
The most obvious effect of this record of slow growth and slow productivity growth has been a stark relative decline in British <br />
<br />
<i>Table 4. National Income, per person (1979 US Dollars) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">13,920 Switzerland <br />
11,930 Sweden<br />
11,900 Denmark <br />
11,730 W. Germany <br />
10,920 Belgium <br />
10,700 Norway <br />
10,630 USA <br />
10,230 Netherlands <br />
9,950 France <br />
9,640 Canada <br />
9,120 Australia <br />
8,810 Japan <br />
8,630 Austria <br />
8,160 Finland <br />
6,320 UK <br />
5,250 Italy </span><br />
<br />
Source: World Bank, <i>World Development Report</i> 1981, Table 1, p. 135. <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION • 33 <br />
incomes, compared with the same group of countries. There are serious problems in making cross-country income comparisons, but the figures in table 4 give at least a broad indication of the differences involved. <br />
<br />
Against this picture of poor performance and low income must be set a further image: that of Britain at the beginning of the post-war epoch. Then, Britain was not at the bottom of the table but near the top. It was a technically advanced, high-productivity economy with a major industrial base, sophisticated research and development capabilities, a highly skilled workforce and a capable financial system. The relative decline traced in the statistics above means that some-thing has gone seriously wrong. Moreover things have been getting considerably worse: concealed within the long-run averages of the above tables is a sharp deterioration in the mos. The figures above show that in the post-war period Britain's growth of output and income was slow compared with its competitors. But in the most, crucial parts of the British economy simply stopped growing. Instead, we have seen the historically unprecedented spectacle of an advanced economy suffering severe absolute fall in industrial and manufacturing output. These falls are at the core of Britain's economic crisis.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE INDUSTRIAL COLLAPSE </span></h4>
<br />
The British economy is built on an industrial base, by which economists normally mean four types of activity: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
- mining, quarrying, oil, etc.; <br />
- construction; <br />
- public utilities: gas, electricity, water, <br />
- manufacturing. </blockquote>
All of these industries are important, though manufacturing is often accorded a special place since it provides the bulk of exports and jobs. To set what has been happening in context, we should note that from the mos, and right through the fifties and sixties, British manufacturing output grew at about 30 per cent per decade. In the early mos it continued to grow, but that growth was then swamped by a mid 1970s contraction followed by the Thatcher recession. The outcome was an absolute fall, over the decade, of over 8 per cent. <br />
<br />
34 THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
There is no precedent for this in British economic history over the past two centuries. And other industrial output fell by a similar amount. Only the massive growth of North Sea oil production prevented an overall fall in total industrial output; even including oil, there was only 1 per cent growth over the decade, a derisory amount. Table 5 - in the form of an index with 1975 equal to 100 - illustrates the collapse. <br />
<i><br />
</i> <i>Table 5. Manufacturing and Industrial Output 1971-81 (1975 = 100) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 97.5 100.0 108.4 106.6 100.0 101.4 Manufacturing </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 99.7 101.4 109.4 105.1 100.0 102.1 Total industrial production </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 99.6 101.7 109.2 105.1 100.0 100.7 ... less North Sea oil </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">103.0 104.0 104.4 95.5 89.6 Manufacturing </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">106.1 110.3 113.1 105.9 100.6 Total industrial production </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">101.9 104.1 104.3 96.9 90.6 ... less North Sea oil </span><br />
Souce. <i>National Income and Expenditure, 1982,</i> Table 2.4, p.21. <br />
<br />
Again, it should be remembered that these figures are avenges for whole sectors; things look much worse even than this if we look at particular industries within the manufacturing sector. 'Fable 6 shows decline over the 1970s for a wide range of important industries. <br />
<br />
This collapse in output has been paralleled by falls in employment, both in manufacturing and in industry generally. Here, however, the long-run decline began in the mid 1960s (see table 7). <br />
<br />
These figures reflect what is sometimes called a process of 'de-industrialization'. To return to the comparative context, it should be emphasized that in this process Britain is <i>unique</i>. Certainly, in the economic turmoil of the 1970s, other countries have suffered losses <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION 35 <br />
<br />
<i>Table 6. Index of UK manufacturing decline in the 1970s (1975 = 100) </i><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1973<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span> 1979 <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">O</span>utput<br />
120.6 105.3<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>-13% Coal and petroleum products<br />
129.5 104.4 -35% Metals Ferrous<br />
117.1 105.5 -13% Metals Non-Ferrous</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 97.1 91.4<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>- 6% Mechanical Engineering</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 95.4 78.1 -18% Shipbuilding<br />
118.8 99.3 -16% Motor Vehicles</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">120.7 94.6 -22% Bricks, cement<br />
117.1 96.7 -17% Textiles</span><br />
<br />
Source: John Hughes<i>, Britain in Crisis: De-industrialization and how to fight it</i>, Nottingham, 1982, p. 27. <br />
<br />
in output and employment. But nowhere have the falls been in any way comparable with those of the UK. Moreover, in many advanced economics - Canada, the USA, Japan, Italy - industrial employment has actually risen. <br />
<br />
So something very significant has happened within the British economy. A long process of relative decline has turned into an absolute contraction in Britain's industrial base. Should this, however, be a cause for concern? There are those who argue that it is not. Some suggest simply that the balance of Britain's economic activities is <br />
<br />
<i>Table 7. Employment in industry and manufacturing (million) </i><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> June<br />
1966 1970 1974 1981 % Decline <br />
9.16 8.91 7.87 6.04 34.1 Total Manufacturing<br />
11.85 11.09 9.90 7.87 33.8 Total Production Industries</span><br />
<br />
Source: A. P. Thirlwall, <i>'De-industrialization in the United Kingdom'</i>, Lloyd's Bank Review, 144, p. 25. <br />
<br />
<br />
36 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
shifting, away from manufactures and towards 'service' activities; consequently, the decline in manufactures is a natural consequence of a change in what people want to spend their incomes on. But if this is the case, there is no necessary reason why a long-term increase in unemployment should result: a shift in the forms of employment, yes; unemployment, not necessarily. Moreover, the British people do not seem to be consuming fewer manufactured goods - they are consuming fewer <i>British</i> manufactured goods, and much more in the way of imports. Others argue - and these have included the former Chancellor, Sir Geoffrey Howe - that the slowdown in manufacturing is a response to the rise in North Sea oil production. The arguments here are quite complex, but it seems enough to point out that the problems in UK manufacturing and other industrial production began well before North Sea oil came on stream. North Sea oil has indeed had significant effects on the economy, but of course does nothing to explain why our performance relative to our neighbours has been so poor for so long.<br />
<br />
So such arguments, reassuring though they are, do not seem to get us very far. Against them, we could suggest that the de-industrialization of Britain is in fact a major historical development. Since it is indeed unprecedented it is difficult, to say the least, to outline its implications for the future. The argument here is that it threatens the long-term viability of the British economy, which is therefore at a significant turning-point in its history. But this requires a framework within which to set the facts outlined above, one which will enable us to understand their wider significance for the way the British economy functions. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">2 </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<hr />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">Growth and Trade </span></i></span><span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">—<br />
Components of the Crisis </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
Improvements in the incomes, living standards and wel-fare of any country's people are in large part an effect of success in generating economic growth. Of course, growth is by no means the only contributor to these things, nor does it guarantee anything: much depends, for instance, on how its benefits are distributed among the population. And certainly growth brings many new problems in its wake. Even so, it remains the basic process by which problems of poverty, unemployment and low incomes - Britain's problems - can be overcome. <br />
<br />
The previous chapter showed that Britain's growth record has been very poor: in the 1950s and 60s Britain's growth rates were the highest it had ever achieved. Yet they were dismal when set against those of comparable economies; and in the 70s even that slow growth evaporated and an absolute decline began. This chapter secs out an analytical framework for understanding these developments, within which some of the basic elements of Britain's decline can be identified. It is concerned essentially with two types of problem: <br />
<br />
1. The nature of economic growth. What does economic growth actually consist of, and what are its mechanisms? In particular, what is the relationship between technological change and economic growth? <br />
<br />
2. The role of international trade for an economy like that of the U K. Why does the trading position of the economy matter, and what is the relationship between it and the economy's growth record and growth prospects? <br />
<br />
38 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">ECONOMIC GROWTH </span></h4>
Economic growth is an increase in the total output of an economy overtime. It can result from two quite separate processes. On the one hand there may be a growth in output resulting simply from an increase in the number of workers and an increase - sufficient to employ them - in the economy's stock of machines and equipment. This is, in other words, an expansion of existing activities; it means doing the same sorts of things on a wider scale (in fact, economists sometimes call this 'capital-widening' growth). Such growth involves an increase in total output, but no increase in output per person, or in income per person. We can call this 'extensive' growth. <br />
<br />
On the other hand there is a further dimension of economic growth in which, in the words of Professor Simon Kuznets - one of the most influential of modern growth theorists - 'we identify the economic growth of nations as a substantial increase in per capita or per worker product.' [1] Here, economic growth occurs not because of more workers but because of increased output by existing workers: in other words, productivity growth. We might call this 'intensive growth'. Now this 'intensive' productivity growth is a complex process involving many activities ranging from basic scientific research through to the development and application of quite small-scale skills in production. But in general it involves changes in the capital stock; that is, changes in the array of plant, equipment, machines and so on with which workers product. These changes take the form either of increases in the amount of equipment available for each worker to work with, or improvements in technology which increase either the quantity or quality of output which can be produced with available quantities of capital and labour. <br />
<br />
Clearly these two types of growth - extensive and intensive have gone hand in hand in the course of the development of the advanced economies. But it is the second type, based on productivity growth, which is more important and on which the attention of economists has focused. The reason is obvious: rises in output per head are one of the few paths to rising incomes and standards of living and shorter working periods. Since these are among the central objectives of economic activity as such, the importance of intensive growth stands <br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE — COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS • 39 <br />
out. Another reason is that there is considerable research evidence to suggest that productivity increases, resulting from broad technological improvements, have made the most important contribution to the rapid economic growth of the advanced economies since 1850. The massive rises in income, and the dramatically shortened working week, which have characterized Western economic development, are the result of intensive forms of growth. <br />
<br />
So what is entailed by this intensive, productivity-increasing mode of growth? What kinds of activity promote it or retard it? The most general point is that intensive growth involves a process of almost continuous change within the economy. This change occurs along three main axes, to do with the kinds of activities on which the economy is based (that is, its structure); with the kinds of products which are produced (its output mix); and with how products are produced (its technology). We can consider each of these types of change in turn: <br />
<i><br />
1. Structural change </i><br />
Structural change means simply a shift of emphasis within the activi-ties which make up the economy; by itself it can raise productivity and generate growth. For example, in many economics agriculture is less advanced technically and less productive than manufacturing. If workers move, therefore, from agricultural work into a manufacturing job, their productivity will automatically rise and output will grow. These kinds of shifts have historically been important in raising productivity, but are obviously limited; only so many people can be moved out of agriculture, and the productivity improvements gained thereby are a once-for-all affair. But structural shifts of this type remain important. Recently, for example, manufacturing employment dropped in the UK - as we have seen - while service employment has risen; since services are, on the whole, less productive, the result a fall in average productivity and in overall output. <br />
<br />
<i>2 Changing the product mix </i><br />
The general mix of products being turned out by an economy clearly changes over time. In the first place, some products simply drop out ut production: whale-bone corsets and horse-drawn wagons are no <br />
<br />
40 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
longer made. Others remain but fade from significance, like lace, or horseshoes. And completely new products emerge, such as - in the twentieth century - electrical goods and, more recently, electronic and microprocessor-based products. Finally, within this broad process of change, some things remain in production, yet change their character so much as to be, in effect, new products: transistor as opposed to valve radios, digital as opposed to mechanical watches. We could sum up by saying that there is continuous product change in terms of design characteristics, technical attributes, materials and functions. The question is, what is the <i>economic</i> significance of such change? <br />
<br />
There is in fact an important relationship between product change and economic growth. We can start by noting that, in order for output to grow, the demand for that output must also be growing. For any particular country within the world economy, product demand can grow for two reasons: either the total market is growing, or that country's share of the market is growing. Now when the world economy grows, when world incomes grow, the demand for all indi-vidual products also grows. But these demands for individual products do not grow at the same pace; some, in fact, grow faster than others. Over the past ten years, for example, world income and demand have grown; but the market for stereo equipment, for instance, has grown much faster than the market for nuclear power stations. As a general rule, as incomes grow, the demand for manufactured products grows faster than the demand for agricultural goods. <br />
<br />
This suggests that a first condition for growth is that a country must be producing goods for which demand is growing; often, this will mean new products, since the expansionary possibilities here will usually be greater than for older products whose demand pattern is more stable. After the Second World War, for example, consumer durables such as refrigerators and washing machines - which in Europe were essentially new products - were in strong demand and became an important motor of post-war growth. At the present time, demand for consumer electronics, notably video equipment, is growing, and this promotes growth in Japan, the only significant producing country. <br />
<br />
But it is not, by itself, enough to be producing in new and expanding<br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE - COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS - 41<br />
product groups. Products also have to <i>compete </i>to maintain their share of the market, and for both new and old products this also means change: the development of new designs, of new standards of performance, and so on. The motorcar of' the 1980s is very different from that of the 50s; in this field, as in many others, world competition relates not just to prices but to the technical standards of the product. If producers are to stay in business they must keep up, therefore, with the frontiers of technical change in the design of the product. These considerations suggest that product change is central to economic growth simply because without it, demand is unlikely to grow. Thus growth is not just a matter of efficiency, but of efficiency in producing the right sorts of things: there is no percentage in being the world's most efficient producer of whale-bone corsets. Moreover, from this perspective, 'de-industrialization' can be seen not as a bad thing, necessarily, but as a vital concomitant of growth. 'De-industrialization', in the sense of running down industries in declining product areas, and building them up for products with high and rising demand, should be normal practice for a successful economy. <br />
<br />
<i>3. New processes: </i><br />
changing methods of production The other crucial aspect of change is not in products but in the processes of production through which they are made. New products generally entail new production techniques. But even where products remain broadly the same - as in steel, or chemicals - methods of production change. Such changes can take a wide variety of forms. Some may be very dramatic, shifting the whole nature of production: in chemicals, for example, an important shift was from 'batch' techniques to a continuous `flow' process; the analogous shift in cars was from individual assembly - one car at a time - to the production line. Such 'big' changes can also take the form of changes in power sources (oil and electrical power for coal and steam), or materials (plastics for metals), or methods of work organization (the factory for the artisan's workshop). At present, the rapid introduction of robots into manufacturing assembly - made possible by microprocessors - may well be such a 'big' shift. <br />
<br />
At a less spectacular level there are frequent small changes in <br />
<br />
42 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<br />
production processes which raise overall productivity. In a competitive world the economy must be flexible along the whole spectrum of such changes; it must keep in touch with 'best-practice' techniques of production, or lose out to its competitors. In processes as with products, the economy must be in the business of continuous change. <br />
<br />
Such 'process' transformations necessarily involve changes in the nature of work, in the numbers of people employed, and in the kinds of jobs they do. Here again there must be flexibility, an openness to the possibilities of de-industrialization. A growing and efficient economy must somehow solve the problem of shifting people from declining to growing industries, from low-productivity to high-productivity jobs; it must be able to absorb the consequences of technical change. As a very minimum this involves recognizing and overcoming complex problems of education, retraining, and re-location; but it entails many further problems of industrial policy. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GROWTH AND TECHNOLOGY </span></h4>
To sum these ideas up, we can say that economic growth implies a continuous, multi-faceted process of change: a process which Joseph Schumpeter called 'creative destruction', as old methods and products make way for new. This is nothing other than the process of tech-nological and technical innovation. So the theoretical point in all of this is that growth and technological change go hand in hand; they are indissolubly linked, for it is technological change that makes growth possible, as Professor Kuznets rightly argues, <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>a sustained high rate of growth depends on a continuous emergence of new inventions,</i> providing the hoses for new industries whose high rates of growth compensate for the inevitable slowing down of the older industries. A high rate of overall growth in an economy is thus necessarily accompanied by considerable shifting in relative importance among industries, as the old decline and the new increase in the nation's output [2] (My italics.) </blockquote>
This emergence of new inventions and innovations does not, of course, happen by accident. It involves the commitment of resources directed specifically at generating technological progress: in a word, it involves investment. Now investment in technology-based growth <br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE — COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS • 43 <br />
means that resources must be committed to two types of activity. <br />
<br />
First, there are research and development (R & D) activities, which are aimed specifically at producing new technologies. These R & D activities can range all the way from basic scientific research, via forms of applied technological study, through to the design and con-struction of new machines and products. It is extremely important to note that this R & D activity need not be confined to the direct development of technologies: it can also consist of a search for useful technology imports. At the technological level, the world economy is characterized — as the previous chapter noted with respect to the US growth record — by a distinction between 'leader' and 'follower' economies. Follower economies can and should devote a large part of their R & D activity to obtaining the technologies of more advanced economies. This has been a notable feature of rapid economic development in Western Europe in the mid nineteenth century (using British technology), in the Soviet Union in the 1930s (using US and European technologies), in Western Europe after the Second World War (using American technologies). The most striking example, however, is Japan, which has combined a high level of domestic R & D with a very high level of technology import from Europe and the USA; Japan's remarkable economic growth has been heavily dependent on foreign technologies, but the point is that this has required a substantial commitment of R & D resources aimed at seeking out the most useful, adaptable and profitable techniques for import. <br />
<br />
The second aspect of investment is industrial construction itself: the commitment of resources to building up the industries which will either use or produce the outcome of R & D activity. For an economy to grow successfully, these two kinds of investment must be 'adequate' in two different senses. On the one hand, investment must be 'adequate' in volume or amount: a country must devote enough of its income to such investment, so that it has both the ability and the economic capacity to produce a level of output that will maintain its incomes and employment. On the other hand, investment must be adequate in what we might call direction: it must be directed towards viable activities, meaning areas of R & D and pro-duction where there actually will be a pay-off and profits. <br />
<br />
44 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
These kinds of theoretical points about the relationship between technology and growth suggest various propositions about the poor British growth record outlined in Chapter I. Specifically, they suggest that Britain's growth problems have been tied up with a technological weakness. <i>Britain has not devoted enough of its resources to R & D) and production investment; and the resources it has committed have gone to the wrong areas.</i> The consequence has been low rates of growth. Conversely, it could be argued that the success of countries like Japan and West Germany is an effect of success in managing the processes of technological innovation and investment. <br />
<br />
These propositions form the first part of a framework for understanding the British predicament. The next two chapters will look at some of the relevant evidence, which suggests that technological weaknesses are indeed at the root of Britain's slow growth problem. However, we also need to ask why this slow growth should involve a crisis, a threat to the viability of the UK economy. Here it is necessary to look at the 'external' position of the economy: at its import-export structure, and its balance of payments, and at the economic role they play in an economy like Britain's. Against this 'external' background we can discern the really worrying implications of the slowdown and end of British economic growth in the 1980s. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE EXTERNAL PROBLEM </span></h4>
Britain's place as part of an international economy is central to its economic functioning. To some extent this is for geophysical masons: Britain is a small, overpopulated island which needs to import about half its food, and a large proportion of the raw materials used in industry. Obviously it must export to finance such imports. But there is more to the problem of exports than this. This is because the 'balance of payments' - in which Britain's economic relationships with the world are summed up - is not simply a set of accounts. It involves the operation of powerful economic forces which place real constraints on the rate at which Britain can grow, and on the level of income and employment which it can sustain. It sets limits on the kinds of policies which can be adopted. As we shall sec, for an economy like Britain's, manufactured exports and imports play an <br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE — COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS • 45 <br />
important role within the balance of payments, which is why the growth failures and technological weaknesses - referred to above - have very disturbing implications for the future. But in order to depict the problem accurately, we need to look first at the meaning of the balance of payments and then at its mechanisms; then at the structure of British trade and the prospects for the future. <br />
<br />
In essence, the balance of payments records the purchases and sales of sterling and foreign currencies related to two kinds of transaction. The first are called 'current account' transactions; these refer to all imports and exports of goods (such as cars or machinery or food) and services (such as insurance sales or tourist activities). Goods and services are sometimes referred to as 'visibles' & and 'invisibles' respectively. The second type of transactions are called 'capital account' transactions; they refer to the shift of money into and out of Britain for the purchase of assets - shares, bonds, bank deposits, land, plant and equipment, etc. <br />
<br />
The ratio at which pounds exchange for other currencies within these transactions is, of course, the 'exchange rate'; it plays an im-portant part in keeping all of these transactions in balance, and every country must have some policy on how its exchange rate is fixed. There are in fact a range of possible exchange rate systems, each with different implications for the economy. One is a system of fixed, unalterable rates, such as the 'Bretton Woods' system which governed the advanced marker economics between the end of the Second World War and 1971. With this system governments fix a definite set of rates, which are changed only at long intervals; for most of the post-war period, for example, pounds exchanged with dollars at the fixed rate of $2.80 = £1, until 1967 when the pound was devalued to $2.40 = £1. In order to keep the rate stable, governments would hold large reserves of gold and foreign currencies, which in Britain were and are held in a special account in the Bank of England called the 'Exchange Equalization Account'. When, for example, Britain imported more than it exported it would need more foreign currency than it was currently earning to pay for the imports; the Bank of England would supply this by running down its reserves. Conversely, when Britain had a surplus of exports over imports, foreign buyers would need extra sterling to pay UK exporting firms; then the Bank <br />
<br />
46 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
would supply sterling in exchange for foreign currencies, which would go into the Exchange Equalization Account, thus increasing UK reserves. In this way the Bank ensured that the supply and demand of sterling and foreign currencies were always in balance at the going exchange rate, and the rate was thus fixed.<br />
<br />
At a polar extreme from the fixed-rate system is the 'floating-rate' regime. Here the government supplies neither sterling nor foreign currencies into the foreign exchange markets. In consequence, the supply of sterling into the market (from importers wanting to buy foreign currencies), and the demand for sterling (from foreign buyers of our exports, who need to change their money into pounds to pay UK companies for the goods), can be out of balance. This causes the exchange rate, which is the 'price' of sterling in terms of other currencies, to move. A surplus of exports over imports means a demand for sterling greater than the supply, and vice versa. Thus, in this system, the day-to-day exchange rate can fluctuate quite sharply. <br />
<br />
Apart from holding and using foreign currency reserves, there is one further way the government can affect the movement of currency (and hence, in the floating system, the exchange rate). This is by affecting capital movements through interest rates. A rise in interest rates will induce foreign investors to shift their capital to Britain, since they can now get a better return than elsewhere. This has the effect of increasing the reserves (with fixed rates), or pushing up the exchange rate (with floating rates). In principle, therefore, the government can keep the overall supply of, and demand for, sterling in balance by varying the basic interest rate: if there is a surplus on current account (exports are greater than imports) then it can lower the interest rate to produce a deficit on capital account (more capital goes out than comes in). If the capital account deficit exactly offsets the current account surplus, then there will be no change in either reserves or the exchange rate. <br />
<br />
At present, Britain operates a system which is somewhere between the fixed and floating-rate models - it is called a 'managed float'. The exchange rate is allowed to float, but the Bank of England intervenes with its reserves to iron out temporary fluctuations. in addition, interest rates also shift to stabilize the rate. So in any one year the balance of payments consists broadly of three items: <br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE - COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS • 47 <br />
- the current account balance; - the capital account balance; - the 'balance for official financing': i.e., the change in the reserves as a result of Bank of England intervention. The 'balance for official financing' is equal to the difference between the current and capital account balances; this means that by definition the whole thing sums to zero - the balance of payments really is a balance. In 1980, for example, the current account was in surplus to the tune of approximately £3 billion; the capital account was in deficit by<b> </b>£1.8 billion; and official financing - in this case involving additions to reserves - was approximately £1.2 billion. Net balance: zero. <br />
<br />
This particular accounting identity always holds true: the balance of payments is always in short-term balance, or 'equilibrium'. <br />
<br />
However, the problem of balance of payments equilibrium goes much further than this. Pearly, if Britain had a serious overall deficit, it could not finance this by running down the reserves over an indefinite period, simply because the Bank of England's foreign currency reserves are finite. Sooner or later they would run out. Then, if not before, the exchange rate would begin to depreciate or even collapse. In theory, this could in itself solve the problem of discquilibrium, since a falling exchange rate means that our exports are becoming cheaper and imports dearer; hence exports would rise and imports fall, and we would move back into basic balance. But this mechanism is by no means as certain as the textbooks tell us, and there would be formidable problems of adjustment (including falling real incomes) along the way. <br />
<br />
The upshot of all this is that the basic balance of payments - the current and capital accounts - must be kept broadly in equilibrium. Consequently, the British economy cannot develop in ways, nor can economic policies be adopted, which are incompatible with an underlying balance on our external accounts. We cannot, for example, allow the economy to grow if that growth produces large imbalances in our foreign trade. For a concrete example of the problems here, we can look back to the so-allied `stop-go' cycles of the 1950s and 1960s. This is not just a historical exercise: the basic difficulty it points up is still with us. <br />
<br />
<br />
48 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE STOP-GO CYCLE </span></h4>
For much of the 1950s and 1960s Britain was characterized by short bursts of expansion in economic activity, followed by bouts of contraction or recession: the 'stop-go' cycle, in which the 'stop' signal was a balance of payments problem. Typically, the cycle would run like this: for one reason or another - possibly to reduce unemployment - the government would attempt to expand the economy. Growth would be induced by raising demand through tax cuts, increases in public spending and so on. <br />
<br />
This would cause output to rise and unemployment to fall in Britain; consequently incomes would rise, consumer expenditure would rise, and so would spending by firms on raw materials and equipment. But as this happened, the 'external constraint' would begin to make itself felt. The problem was this: with given prices, Britain's exports are essentially determined - in the short term - by world demand, that is, by the level of world income. Imports, however, are determined by the level of income in Britain. So as the government expanded the economy, imports would grow faster than exports, because the world economy would not be matching Britain's short-term acceleration in growth. The result of imports outpacing exports was thus a balance of trade deficit, and a balance of payments crisis. The foreign currency reserves in the Bank of England would fall as Britain used more foreign currency to pay for imports than it earned from exports. The government effectively had only one response to this: to throw the gears into reverse, and slow down the rise in British income. It would, in a word, deflate the economy - reduce spending and incomes by increases in taxes, raise interest rates (which would have the effect of attracting foreign capital), and cut government expenditure, and so on. The 'stop-go' cycle was essentially a short-term process, and in the context of the 1950s and 1960s was not too serious, since both the world economy and the British economy were growing at record rates anyway. (It should be mentioned, perhaps, that the stop-go cycle cannot be held responsible for Britain's poor relative performance in those years, since other countries - such as West Germany - experienced the same problems, if anything in a more severe form). <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
GROWTH AND TRADE - COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS 49 </div>
But the point of all this - and it is a very important one - is that there was (and is) an external constraint on British growth. It was simply not possible for Britain to grow at a faster rate than that which was compatible with balance of payments equilibrium. And this constraint could be extended to unemployment: Britain could not employ more workers than was consistent with external balance. Moreover, this external constraint is not confined to the short term: it also affects the long-run attainable rate of growth in the UK. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE LONG-RUN CONSTRAINT </span></h4>
In the long run, Britain faces a constraint which is analogous to that of the stop-go cycle. As the economy grows, demand for imports grows: some are demanded directly, as raw material inputs for pro-duction; others indirectly as people spend part of their growing incomes on imported goods. As this happens, exports must expand in order to maintain a basic balance of payments equilibrium. If this does not occur, then there will have to be a slowdown in growth, and a slowdown - or even contraction - in incomes and employment until external equilibrium is restored. This is the problem which policies of tariff protection - widely advanced by such people as Wynne Godley and the Cambridge Economic Policy Group - are meant to overcome. <br />
<br />
This problem of an external constraint, of course, confronts all of the successful industrial economies. How have they solved it? <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">TECHNOLOGICAL INNOVATION AND EXPORT PERFORMANCE</span> </h4>
Here we must return to the process of economic growth, and outline the connection between it and a successful external performance. As we saw earlier, success in economic growth involves success in research and development, in the innovation of new products and processes, and involves directing these activities towards growing, high-demand markets. These markets need not be, indeed cannot be, exclusively home markets. On the contrary, export markets are necessary in order to recoup the large development costs typically associated with modern <br />
<br />
50 • TIIE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
innovation. But innovation of itself plays a large part in opening up these markets, since a great deal of international competition is not just price competition (though successful innovation does tend to lower prices) but is in the areas of quality and design. This is especially true in high-income countries. Thus it is resources devoted to innovation which open up the possibility of economic growth; but it is precisely the same thing which delivers success in export markets. The Japanese example is, by now, a rather trite one to deploy; but it is simply the most extreme case of a general phenomena. Cars, cameras, motorbikes, consumer electronics are all areas where the rewards for innovation and product quality are high; these rewards include the expansion of export markets, and by that fact the overcoming of the external constraint on growth. So the successful economies removed the external constraint by exporting the same innovation-based high technology manufactures which made their growth possible in the first place. Moreover the effects were cumulative. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CUMULATIVE GROWTH AND CUMULATIVE DECLINE </span></h4>
Economies which succeed in generating innovation-based growth, and in consequence a high-technology export pattern, can readily find themselves in a kind of spiral of success. Strong export performance and high growth generate the resources for investment in further innovative effort; this in turn produces further export and growth success, and the cycle can repeat itself. Again, this is particularly noticeable of Japan, but the pattern of innovation <b>→</b> export success <b>→</b> growth<b> → </b>further innovation is one which can be found in the export specialisms of a number of countries. We might call it a 'virtuous circle', as opposed to the converse 'vicious circle' of decline, which is equally possible: low growth and low incomes, feeding into low investment and innovation levels, further low growth and so on. <br />
<br />
Important consequences, for Britain, flow from such considerations. If this picture of the mechanisms of economic growth is correct, then Britain's low growth rates of output and productivity - which were traced in the previous chapter - cannot simply be shrugged off. This is because they imply that the technological frontier being set by <br />
<br />
GROWTH AND TRADE — COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS • 51 <br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
the most advanced industrial economics is moving continuously <i>away from</i> the technological levels attained by the UK economy. If both high and low growth are cumulative, then Britain will be falling further and further behind; and because competitiveness at the level of the world economy means <i>technological </i>competitiveness, then the possibility emerges of Britain finding great difficulty in competing <i>at all</i>. The consequences of that, for a country like Britain, would be desperately serious. <br />
<br />
It may seem, of course, that this picture of cumulative decline and potential collapse is overdrawn. Yet it would account, for example, for the fact that Britain's performance, relative to other countries, has worsened over the 1970s.<b> </b>The fact that Britain has entered a period of absolute decline would accord with these ideas of a cumulative slide. Finally there are the recent trends in Britain's foreign trade position. Here the situation is very worrying: it seems to indicate that Britain is becoming systematically less able to survive in the world economy. The place of manufacturing and manufactured exports - precisely the products for which technological innovation is so crucial - are central here; and it is here, in the underlying trade position, that the real British crisis is to be found. </div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">BRITAIN'S TRADE STRUCTURE: THE EMERGING CRISIS </span></h4>
Now let us try to combine these ideas about growth and foreign trade to assemble a picture of the problems confronting Britain. First, we need to look at Britain's exports and imports of goods (visible trade) and services (invisibles), that is, at the items which make up the current account of the balance of payments. Three types of traded item are important: <br />
- raw materials, food and fuel; <br />
- manufactures; <br />
- 'invisibles': banking, insurance and so on. <br />
Since the first half of the nineteenth century, Britain has had a quite specific structure of trade in these categories. Firstly, it has run a large <i>deficit</i> in the first item: about half of food consumption, and a considerable volume of raw materials, are imported, while historically, <br />
<br />
52 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
exports in these areas have been small, hence a deficit. This deficit on raw materials has been offset by large surpluses in the other items, namely manufactures and invisibles. Overall, the current account was never actually an exact balance — it didn't need to be — but over a run of years this structure generated a rough balance. The general picture can be seen, for example, in the figures for 1972, a year selected more or less at random (see table 8). <br />
<br />
<i>Table 8. Current account balance, 1972 (£ million) </i><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">- 1,498 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Food, beverages, tobacco </span>(deficit)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <br />
- 811 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Basic materials </span>(deficit)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
- 707 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Mineral fuels and lubricants</span>(deficit)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
+ 457 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Semi-manufactured goods </span>(surplus)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <br />
+ 1,688 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Finished manufactured goods </span>(surplus)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <br />
<u>+ 123 Other <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">(surplus)</span></u></span></div>
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">- 748 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Visible balance </span>(overall deficit) </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u> </u><br />
+ 995 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Invisible balance </span>(surplus) </span> <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u> </u><br />
<u>+ 247 </u></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u>current balance </u></span>(overall surplus) </u></span><br />
<br />
Source <i>UK Balance of Payments 1983</i>, Tables 1.1 and 2.3. <br />
<br />
The offsetting deficits and surpluses can easily be seen; they have been an almost permanent fixture, in much this form, in Britain's peace-time external accounts for many years. <br />
<br />
Recently, however, things have changed. The first development has been a shift in emphasis for the direction of trade: the EEC has taken considerably more of our exports, and developing countries less. Much more important than this, however, has been the emergence of North Sea oil, which has turned Britain into a major exporter of oil, running large surpluses on the current account. As recently as 1976 the deficit on trade in oil was nearly £4bn but by 1980 there <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GROWTH AND TRADE — COMPONENTS OP THE CRISIS </span></h4>
was a surplus of £273 million. The move from deficit to surplus on oil is one reason why the UK is now running a strong current account surplus. It was an unforeseen development, and moreover a very fortunate one indeed. It is fortunate for a very simple reason: it has come just in time to offset a precipitous worsening of the picture in one of the central categories of Britain's external accounts — in manufacturing. The surplus here which — with the surplus on 'invisibles' — has underpinned the UK's international position, has been eroding fast. Manufactured imports have been growing at a considerably faster rate than exports, and the result, inevitably, is a sharp decline in the trade balance in manufactures. In 1971 the value of Britain's manufactured exports was 97 per cent higher than that of manufactured imports; in pm it was 48 per cent higher; in 1980 it was 23 per cent higher. In 1983 Britain's manufacturing trade went into deficit. The trend is steadily downward, and the implication is clear: not only are British manufactured goods competing poorly in international markets, they are competing poorly against imports within Britain itself. The collapse in our manufacturing output — down 13 per cent since 1971 — is reflected in a collapse in our trade in manufactures. <br />
<br />
This would not matter if oil was a permanent fixture. But of course it is not: North Sea oil will reach its peak of production in the mid 1980s, and in the 1990s output will begin to decline. This particular item will be removed from Britain's balance of payments, and Britain will return to its historic position, of depending on manufactures. But the manufacturing output on which Britain will have to rely has disappeared. The consequence of Britain's failure to match the investment levels, the technological standards and the design skills of its competitors is the erosion of its industrial manufacturing base. The capacity to re-enter the world of technology-based manufacturing on the required scale is, as things stand, non-existent. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION </span></h4>
This, then, is the crisis which faces Britain. De-industrialization has undercut the foundations of the precarious structure of economic activities which is the British economy. This process has been masked <br />
<br />
54 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
by the discovery of oil, which has prevented the deterioration in manufactured trade from leading to a collapse of the exchange rate. But sooner rather than later the flow of oil which now sustains the balance of payments - and thus the living standards of Britain's people - will slow and then end. When that happens, the British economy as it now exists will become non-viable, since there seems little likelihood of Britain smoothly replacing exports of oil with exports of manufactures. The actual development of the situation, and its outcome, are virtually impossible to predict. But Britain will then face stark choices: it must either reconstruct its industrial base - a problem which will involve heavy investment expenditures, and thus considerable sacrifices in consumption and the living standards of Britain's people - or accept dramatically lower levels of real incomes as the exchange rate deteriorates. The following chapters trace the development of this impasse, before we move to some of the strategic questions of policy which must be faced if this crisis is to be overcome. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">3 </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">The Long Decline </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
The path of the British economy since the late nineteenth century has been one of persistent decline relative to its main industrial competitors. While the pace of the decline has altered from time to time, it has never in peace-time been arrested, let alone reversed. It is the background against which our current predicament should be viewed, for some - though not all - of our current problems are nothing more than the cumulative effects of that decline. And some - though not all - of the forces causing the decline are still at work in the modem UK economy. Understanding it, therefore, is a part of understanding our present malaise. The decline has had two main aspects. The first can be expressed in terms of the figures for national income (or the total value of goods and services produced annually in Britain), and the economic indicators associated with these figures. Since around 1880, Britain's rate of growth of national income has been significantly lower - often less than half- than those of its main competitors. At the same time, the growth rate of productivity (or output per worker) has been slower: again, often less than half those of competitor countries. The productivity measure is particularly important because it affects the overall growth rate, the competitiveness of British exports, and the incomes of the British population. Finally, Britain's share of world trade in manufactures has declined, from about<b> </b>40 per cent in 1880, to less than 7 per cent a century later. These disparities in growth rates meant that first Germany and the USA, then France, Japan, Scandinavia and a number of other economies began to grow at a faster pace than Britain, then to overtake and surpass British levels of income per person. In 1981 this group of countries included, for the first time, a socialist one, East Germany. <br />
<br />
56 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
In 1880, of course, Britain dominated the world economy, in production, in trade, and in finance. As other economies industrialized and grew, a decline from Britain's position of pre-eminence was entirely predictable. But it is important to be precise about what form that decline might be expected to take, for while some aspects of decline were inevitable, others were not. In the first place, as the world economy grew, and as world trade grew, Britain's share in world output and trade would clearly fall. Moreover, during the period of industrializing growth, as other economies reached towards Britain's income level, their growth rates would he higher than Britain's. If they were to attain British levels of productivity, then their growth rates of productivity would also be higher. This much could be expected. But a smaller share of world output and trade remains compatible with high levels of productivity and income. There is no reason why, in the process of world growth, Britain's levels of productivity and income should ultimately have fallen below those of other countries. In recent years, for example, Sweden's share of world output and trade has fallen, while its income and productivity levels remain among the highest in the world. Although it might be too much to expect a levelling out of growth rates and incomes in the advanced countries, large and increasing disparities would be un-expected, particularly in the case of Britain, an economy which had been at the frontier of industrial advance. Yet a gap in incomes and productivity not only emerged, it widened unceasingly over a long period; this was entirely unexpected and certainly was not inevitable. The end result has been that of the European 'industrial market economies' Britain has one of the lowest levels of productivity, and lowest levels of income per person. <br />
<br />
Accompanying this relative income decline, and in fact underlying it, is the second aspect of overall decline. It consists in a decline in the technological level of the economy, an inflexibility in responding to the direction and opportunities of technological advance. What is involved here is the problem raised in the previous chapter: the capacity of an economy to transform its industrial structure. Economic growth does not consist of simply performing the same economic activities on a larger scale. It involves not expansion, but change: the construction of new industries in response to changing patterns of <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 57 <br />
demand and technological possibility, and the demise of old industries where the demand for their products is falling. Even where a product remains unchanged, it may be necessary to change the process of production in order to remain competitive and to survive. The capa-city for such change is an essential component of overall economic growth, and'of growth in incomes: British industry turned out to lack that capacity, at least in the degree required. In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries the structure of the advanced economies changed. New industries - such as chemicals, and electrical products - emerged, and old ones either disappeared or were transformed from within by new methods of production. To 'decline' in this context meant to stick with the old industries and old methods of production, and to develop the new only inadequately. This is precisely what happened in Britain. <br />
<br />
Before describing this process, however, something should be said about the effects of relative decline. Many have consoled themselves, over the past century or so, with the thought that relative decline means only that we are growing slower than others; it does not mean that we are not growing at all. If the total world economy is growing, then relative decline is quite compatible with an absolute improvement in output, exports, living standards and so on. In the period with which this chapter is concerned, from 1880 to the eve of the Second World War, per capita income in Britain increased by over 100 per cent, even though in other countries it was increasing faster. From 1880 to the First World War, Britain's share of world trade declined, but the actual volume of exports in fact doubled. Unfortunately these comforting thoughts can involve illusions, in a number of ways. The first problem is that relative decline, although compatible with growth, may indicate that the economy is not performing as well as it could. It may indicate inefficiency, wasted resources, possibilities for better results which are not being explored. In a country plagued, like Britain, with continuing problems of poverty, this possibility cannot lightly be ignored. Secondly, if the overall system begins to stagnate, as it has done in recent years, then relative decline can become absolute decline.<br />
<br />
Finally, and most importantly, consistent relative decline can impair the technological basis of the economy, and thus its entire future. If <br />
<br />
58 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
economic growth and technological change go hand in hand, then a poor growth performance indicates a low rate of technological change. Clearly, these aspects overlap each other and are cumulative: low growth = low level of technological transformation = further low growth, and so on. The point is that low relative growth can mean an emerging gap between the actual technological level of the economy, and the technological frontier set by the leading economies. If this gap becomes wide enough, then ultimately an inability to compete internationally may result; there may come a <i>'</i>critical point' in this process, beyond which absolute decline and industrial collapse set in. The account which follows describes some industrial aspects of Britain's relative decline. The overall process was very complex, being tied up, for example, with Britain's position as a foreign investor country, with the role of London as a financial centre and the role of sterling as a 'world currency', with government economic policies (which were often suicidally ill-chosen), and with the effects of trade wars and shooting wars. But for the time being these complexities will be put to one side, and the emphasis will be on what happened in Britain's industrial economy rather than why. This process of development and decline will be contrasted with the experience of other industrialized economies, particularly Germany. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE STRUCTURE OF BRITISH INDUSTRIALIZATION</span> </h4>
British economic growth really began in the late eighteenth century, and was ultimately spread across a wide range of industries and products. The so-called 'industrial revolution' actually had precious little that was industrial about it in a technological sense: it consisted to a great extent of changes in the organization and management of work, in new methods of marketing, finance and the control of enter-prises. Inside this broad wave of economic change and expansion, however, occurred a truly spectacular growth in a relatively few industries. These industries came to have a quite disproportionate weight in the economy as a whole, and particularly in exports. Morn British capital investment was concentrated in them, and their massive export success made possible a new economic structure based on the <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 59 <br />
import of large quantities of raw materials and a major part of the nation's food supply. <br />
<br />
Since they were the bedrock of Britain's economic system, they have become known as the 'staple' industries. They were - in approximate order of appearance - coal, textiles (especially cotton), iron and steel, and engineering (especially shipbuilding, but also railway components and machine manufacture). <br />
<br />
Of these, probably the most important was the textile sector. From 1760, when the industry first began to expand, to the beginning of the nineteenth century, the value of output grew from around half a million pounds annually, to approximately £15 million. Throughout the nineteenth century this growth continued, at compound rates of between 3 and 6 per cent per year; the value of annual output topped £100 million in the late 1860s. By a judicious combination of economic efficiency and military/political force the few serious competitors were destroyed, and major international markets were opened up. From the start the industry was export oriented. In 1830 no less than so per cent of all British exports were cotton textiles. This declined gradually to just under 25 per cent by the eve of the First World War (which even so remains a remarkable percentage for only one commodity group). Within the industry, the proportion of output sold abroad was even more striking: in the early 1820s about half of industry output was exported, but by the beginning of the twentieth century this had risen to 80 per cent. The significance of all this is perhaps obvious. Levels of employment in the cotton industry were heavily dependent on continued success in export markets, so was-the balance of trade as a whole, and so were those 'ancillary' industries whose fortunes were in some way linked with cotton (either because they sold inputs to the industry, or because they sold things to cotton workers). The expansion of coal output during this period was almost as striking. Between 1800 and 1830 output doubled (from it to 22 million tons). In the next fifteen years it doubled again, and this dramatic growth was maintained: by 1913 production was almost 300 million tons per year, and nearly a million men were employed in the pits. Once again, exports were an important component of sales, rising from 2 per cent of output in 1800 to over 30 per cent by 1913. <br />
<br />
60 • THE. BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
This first wave of growth in the staple industries was succeeded, in the mid nineteenth century, by a second phase of industrialization. This time it involved not just Britain, but other European economies and the United States. The new phase was not simply a prolonged economic boom - lasting from about 1850 to the mid 1870s - it was also an important structural shift. The pivot of the shift was metal: in particular, the development of major stet capacity, and of industries using steel (such as shipbuilding, railways and machines). Even when growth rates began to slow down towards the end of the century, expansion in these industries continued: European steel output increased by no less than eighty-three times between 1870 and 1913. In Britain, production of pig iron grew from 2.75 million tons in the early 1850s, to nearly to million tons by 1907; and by the end of the period so per cent of output was being exported. Steel output grew even faster, from just over 300,000 tonnes in 1871 to nearly 8 million in 1913. And similar dramatic increases can be traced in the iron and steel using industries, shipbuilding in particular. <br />
<br />
This story of growth in the staple industries is, of course, a familiar one, for it forms the centrepiece of most accounts of the industrial revolution. As I pointed out earlier, the emphasis on the 'industrial' aspects of Britain's economic transformation is in some ways over-done, for many industries retained handicraft methods of production, with very few indeed using steam power or mechanized techniques. Economic growth in this period extended into most sectors of the economy, including such non-industrial activities as agriculture. Yet there remains an important justification for focusing mainly on the staple industries. This is that these industries absorbed an enormous amount of investment, provided the bulk of Britain's export earnings, the majority of manufacturing employment, and were in many ways the driving force of Britain's economic growth. As the British economy entered the twentieth century, these four industries provided a quarter of all employment, 40 per cent of all output, and three-quarters of all exports. The structure of British industry was therefore highly unbalanced, concentrated on only four industrial sectors. The fact that the advanced sector of the economy had such a very narrow basis meant that, although the staples were vital to the overall performance of the UK economy, they made Britain intensely vulnerable to <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 61 <br />
shifts in the pattern of world trade. Such shifts might occur because of the declining importance of Britain's 'basic' industries, or because of the rise of competitive pressures within them. Failure or decline in even one of the staple industries might have serious effects not only on employment and incomes within it, but also on export earnings; and through this there might be serious impacts on a wide range of incomes and jobs in Britain. Should any of these industries face significant difficulties, it would have been essential for the British people to develop new industries to take their place. In fact this problem was not an abstract one, but a real development: by the late nineteenth century difficulties in the staple industries were not just appearing, they were accumulating. <br />
<h4>
<span style="color: red;">THE COMPETITIVE CHALLENGE </span></h4>
In terms of world trade in the staple products, two kinds of problem had to be faced in the late nineteenth century; more precisely, two forms of competition. The first of these was within the domestic markets of the other developing industrial economies. Their economic growth obviously meant the expansion of their own industries, often on the basis of imported British machines and even British workers. In many eases they developed textile industries first, but soon followed up with iron and steel, machines and so on. American and German textile, steel and engineering firms emerged. France and Italy began less vigorous but still significant industrialization, while in the east the nascent Japanese textile sector embarked on a rapid expansion. The initial impact of these industries was<b> </b>felt, naturally enough, in their own home markets. But for Britain, these were export markets: the development of an Italian textile industry, for example, selling to its own domestic market, would inevitably mean a contraction of British exports unless other markets could be found. This was the first type of competitive problem. <br />
<br />
However, it was the second type of competition which held greater dangers, for it concerned the finding of 'other markets'. In their own markets the emergent foreign industries had certain intrinsic advantages which meant that they could sell their products even if they did not match British levels of efficiency: the protection of tariffs, for <br />
<br />
62 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
example, and lower transport costs. However, if they could match British costs of production, then their goods would be cheap enough to compete with British goods elsewhere, in 'third country' markets. This might be achieved through the use of a more advanced technology, or through better management, or cheaper labour, or a combination of these factors. Moreover such a challenge might be thrown out by a number of economies simultaneously, and thus could be world-wide in scope. It could erode Britain's share not only of the domestic markets of other industrializers, but also of the expanding markets of the European periphery, of Australasia, of Latin America. These were vital to<b> </b>continued British export success, and ultimately to the pattern and rate of economic growth in Britain. This second form of competitive challenge to the British economy was potential in 1870. By 1900 it was real. <br />
<br />
Let us take, as an example, the iron and steel industry. In 1870 Britain was the leading producer by far, turning out five times more pig iron and over twice as much steel as Germany, its nearest European rival. But the German industry began to expand, taking over its home market, and towards the late nineteenth century its growth accelerated. Between 1893 and 1913 its production of pig iron grew at nearly 7 per cent per year, compared to less than 1 per cent growth in Britain. At the same time German steel output grew at 8.3 per cent per year, as opposed to 3.6 per cent in Britain. More significant than these growth disparities, however, was the fact that German growth was based on larger plants and the most modern processes, while the doubling of British output over the same period involved no major new technical processes. In 1870 British plants had been consistently larger than those of Germany. By the turn of the century, however, the position had been reversed: new German steel plants were typically three to four times the size of new British plants, and the output of the average mill in Westphalia was equal to that of the biggest mills in Britain. At the name time the US industry was growing fast, also on the basis of larger plants. These size differences were important, for they led to so-called 'scale economies'. These occur in a number of industries: as the scale of output grows, the plant becomes more efficient, and costs per unit <br />
of output therefore fall. This is because <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 63 <br />
of, for example, economies in the use of fuel, or in the handling of bulk raw materials. The possibilities for such economies were aggressively explored in the German industry, and successfully put into practice. To give just one example of the order of the economies involved, it has been pointed out that, in post-smelting processes, British plants used over seven times more coal per ton of output than their German counterparts. <br />
<br />
The result of all this, for the German industry, was cheaper steel. Between 1883 and 1910 German steel prices fell by 50 per cent; British prices were up to a third higher. Inevitably the cheaper prices of the German industry led to increased demand which promoted further growth. In 1893 German steel output was for the first time greater than that of Britain; by 1913 it was two and a quarter times as great. By 1910 German exports of iron and steel were larger than Britain's. They were penetrating markets - such as Australia, Southern Africa, Canada - which had hitherto been regarded as a British preserve. German steel was even selling rather well in Britain itself. <br />
<br />
This pattern of foreign production, then foreign competition, leading to a falling UK share of world trade, can be traced as a gradual but inexorable development in the other staple industries. In 188o, for example, Japanese firms such as Mitsui and Co. began importing cotton spinning machines from the Lancashire firm of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platt_Brothers">Platt and Co</a>. They produced cotton themselves, and acted as an agent, selling the machines to other firms. Soon Japan no longer imported textile manufactures. By the late 1890s it was successfully exporting to the Asian markets which had until then been dominated by Britain. (As a postscript, it might be added that in the 1980s Mitsui is busy consolidating its position as one of the largest companies in Japan and indeed the world; in 1982 Platt's went bankrupt.) Developments such as these, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, produced sharp changes in the shares of world trade of the major industrialized economies. Britain's share began the downward trend from which it has never permanently recovered, as table 9 indicates. <br />
<br />
64 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS<br />
<i>Table 9. Share of World Trade in Manufactures (%) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1883 1913 <br />
17.2 23.0 Germany <br />
3.4 11.0 USA <br />
37.1 25.4 Britain </span> <br />
Source: D. H. Altkroll and H. W. Richardson, <i>The British Economy 1870-1939</i>, London, 1969, p 154<br />
<br />
At the same time the rate of growth of industrial production and productivity was slowing quite significantly in Britain. From the early nineteenth century, industrial output had grown at rates of between 35 and 40 per cent per decade; this growth slowed to under 25 per cent in the 1870s, then to only 16 per cent the following decade. A slight recovery in the 1890s was followed by a further slowing of growth in the early twentieth century; 9 per cent growth in the first decade was followed by a 5 per cent fall in the second (under the destructive impact of the war). The overall growth rate of net national product from 1899 to 1924 was only 0.5 per cent per year: Britain had entered a period of stagnation.<br />
<br />
It seems natural to ask about the relation between the weakening export performance and the slowdown in growth. There are those who attribute the deceleration in growth to falling demand for British exports; on the other hand it is possible to argue that it was the other way around, that emerging weaknesses in British industry were gen-erating export failures. However, to put the problem in terms of one-way causal relationships like this seems misleading, since growth and export performance are clearly interrelated. Poor industrial performance in terms of growth and productivity is likely to affect the prices and quality of output, which in turn will certainly inhibit export sales. At the same time, restricted export markets will reduce overall demand and profitability, which may reduce the desire and ability of firms to invest in new plant and new techniques; this will further limit performance, and at worst the whole process can become cumulative. <br />
<br />
It should be said at once that export performance is affected by <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE 65<br />
many things other than the technical efficiency of particular industries and the quality of their products. The rate of growth of the world economy, the level and composition of domestic demand, and the structure of exchange rates can all exert a big impact on export sales. However, the efficiency and technological level of industry remains a central issue, and a weakening export performance is an indication that something may be seriously wrong in this area. It was this which, at the turn of the century, began to give rise to increased concern in Britain, and to widespread discussion in the press, in Parliament, and elsewhere. The principal issue bothering those who thought about it at the time was an apparently increasing technological gap opening up between Britain on the one hand, and Germany and the United States on the other. In part their success was built upon substantial technical advances within the staple industries on which Britain depended so heavily: in those countries such industries were transformed from within, while in Britain they remained static and rigid in their technical structure. However, these technical gaps within the staple industries were only a part of the problem. The competitive problems for Britain within the existing industrial structure were being overshadowed by another development, which was ultimately to be of greater significance. This was a shift in importance between industries, a change in the structure of the industrial economy as a whole. In the face of this new transition, the UK economy once again appeared rigid and inflexible. The problems of decline were multiplying. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE NEW INDUSTRIAL ECONOMY</span> </h4>
The advanced capitalist economies are characterized by relentless technical development and large-scale transitions. The process of industrialization and the growth of the staple industries was itself such a transition, away from an earlier capitalist economy dominated by handicraft manufactures, by woollen textiles, and by agriculture. In the late nineteenth century a new phase of transition began, as new and dynamic industries emerged. These became the leading echelons of twentieth century industrial advance. They are often described as 'science-based' industries, though this can be misleading since the <br />
<br />
66 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
relationships between science and industry are far from direct. Nevertheless, they all bear a distinct relation with research and development skills, and most of them - both products and the processes by which they were made - depended on new R & D techniques and institutions. Many of them also required large-scale and long-term finance, and a degree of industrial coordination between firms. The most important of the new industries were chemicals, electrical engineering and vehicles. Around them were ranged an array of subordinate but also important industries, such as glass, precision instruments, optical devices, and so on. In the first two of these industries - chemicals and electrical products - and ultimately in the third, vehicles, the German economy proved outstandingly successful, while Britain barely rose to the challenge of the transition. Where it did, the results were often incomplete, or in some way at odds with the main tendencies of twentieth century industrial development. The first stages in the transformation were felt in the German chemicals industry. They began with the unglamorous and seemingly unexciting product of textile dyestuffs, which had previously bccn based on such natural products as cochineal, but which were now the outcome of chemical processes. German firms rapidly secured dominance within the product group: by 1880 they held 50 per cent of the market throughout the world. Within twenty years this had risen to 90 per cent, and a number of the major German firms had gone multinational. The significance of this, in the words of the historian David Landes, lay in the fact that dyestuffs 'were only one corner of a new world: the scientific principles that lay behind artificial colourants were capable of the widest application'.[1] These principles were exploited in the development of an enormous range of products, from explosives, to film, to artificial fabrics and ultimately to the first plastics. In all of these products German firms were pioneers in development. The British chemical industry, by contrast, was not only smaller but less innovative, being oriented around the production of much less sophisticated products, such as soap, bleach and the earlier types of dyestuffs. By the beginning of the First World War the German chemical industry was undisputed. world <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 67 <br />
leader in an industry which was becoming increasingly central to the operations of the industrial economies. <br />
<br />
Similarly impressive were German achievements in electrical engineering. The world-wide growth of this industry was staggering by any standards. In 1880 the German electrical industry consisted of less than two thousand people, working mainly on telegraphic equipment. In Britain at the same time, numbers were roughly comparable, with something under one thousand workers. Neither country possessed a public power station or a grid, and anyway there was no commercially feasible light bulb, let alone domestic electrical equipment. Sixty years later both countries were covered by unified power grids; Germany was generating 60 million kilowatt-hours of electricity per year, and Britain 33. Over 140,000 people were employed in the German industry by 1907. <br />
<br />
But although the industries developed rapidly in each country, they did not develop in an equivalent way. It is worth quoting Landes once again, on the growth of, first, the electrical supply industry, and then electrical manufacturing: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Here, as in chemicals, the most striking achievements occurred in Germany. The parallels are numerous: the belated start, the rapid rise based on tech-nological excellence and on rational organisation, the concentration of pro-duction, the strong position on the world market ... Even more impressive was the German eltxtrical manufacturing industry. It was the largest in Europe - more than twice as big as that of Britain - and second only by a small margin to that of the United States. The firms, as in the chemical industry, were large well-financed enterprises, strongly supported by the capital market and the great investment banks ... Their products were in-genious, solidly made, competitively priced; financial support made possible generous credit to customers. As a result, German exports on the eve of the war were the largest in the world, more than two and one-half times the United Kingdom total, almost three times the American [2]</blockquote>
German exports made up, in fact, half of all world trade in electrical goods. And it is in the changing pattern of trade that the new industrial transition can be seen reflected. In table 10, which shows the composition of exports by Britain and Germany, the breakdown is a fairly crude one, yet it clearly indicates important differences in industrial emphasis. <br />
<br />
<br />
68 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<i>Table 10. Composition of exports by commodity group, on (%) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
UK Germany<br />
13.3 11.0 Coal <br />
16.7 28.9 Metals <br />
l0.0 17.7 Machinery <br />
6.1 4.2 Transport equipment <br />
5.1 14.4 Chemicals <br />
48.8 23.9 Textiles <br />
</span><br />
Source: A. Levine<i>, Industrial Retardation in Britain</i>, 1880-1914, London, 1967, p. 35 <br />
<br />
The most notable thing, perhaps, about this table is the way in which British exports remained so overwhelmingly dependent on textiles - nearly half of all exports - and on coal and metals. All of these industries were, as noted above, intensely vulnerable to foreign competition. The German export structure, on the other hand, placed far more emphasis on the new growth sectors, on steel, chemicals and machinery (which in table to includes electrical equipment). Within these categories, German performance was far superior. In chemicals, for example, Britain's exports, in the words of one historian, 'consisted largely of older products produced with older technology' [3] while in such 'new industries' as electrical goods, scientific instruments and so on, British exports made up well under 3 per cent of export earnings. <br />
<br />
Britain's declining share of world trade, outlined in table to above, thus consisted of two quite separate processes. The first was an increasingly poor performance in the old 'staple' industries. The second was a failure to construct adequately the new industries whose importance was growing at the beginning of the twentieth century. This latter problem played a large part both in weakening export performance and slowing growth. <br />
<br />
Once again, it should be emphasized that the world economy and world markets were growing at that time. So British products and industries were not wiped out by their competitive failures; on the contrary, output and exports grew, but at a slower pace than Britain's main competitors, and slower than the world average of industrialized <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 69 <br />
countries. Table 11 indicates this, and shows also that the differences were quite marked. <br />
<br />
<i>Table 11: Production and exports of manufactures </i><br />
(volume in 1911-13 as percentage of volume in 1881-5) <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Production Exports <br />
162 775 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">UK </span><br />
363 290 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Germany </span><br />
377 537 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">USA </span> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1</span>0 239 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">World average </span><br />
Source: <i>I. Svesmilson, Growth and Stagnation in the European Economy</i>, Geneva, 1951, p. 219. <br />
<br />
However, although the British economy was growing, it was entering a new economic era with an industrial structure still organized around the main activities and technologies of the previous industrial phase. In the face of an increasingly sophisticated industrial challenge, British industries and enterprises had three broad strategics available. The first was simply to do nothing: to accept exclusion from an increasing number of world markets, to become an essentially marginal supplier of manufactures. The second was to retain the existing structure of industries, but to seek markets in which Britain had a built-in advantage. In practice this could only mean Empire markets. The third strategy was to engage in major programmes of reinvestment, modernization and technical change. British manufacturers essentially accepted the first of these alternatives, though with growing world trade in manufactures the conse-quences were not fully apparent until after the First World War. However, one immediate result was that British exporters did not share fully in the major growth of the European and American markets in the pre-war period (and after the war Britain's already declining share collapsed utterly). To some extent, the second strategy came into play: British exports to the Empire steadily expanded, from about 30 per cent of UK exports in the mid nineteenth century, to nearly 45 per cent in the mid 1930s. Moreover some of the staple industries - particularly <br />
<br />
70 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
textiles and iron and steel - depended on Empire markets even more heavily than these numbers indicate. Yet even here, British performance was surprisingly weak. In one group of fifteen manufactured goods, for example, British exports to the Empire increased by 91 per cent between 1895 and 1907. Yet in the same period German and US exports of the same goods to the same Empire countries increased by no less than 129 and 359 per cent respectively. <br />
<br />
More significant for the future was the strategy of re-equipment and structural change which was not adopted. Its absence meant that the British economy faced an incipient crisis of exports and growth. Two things masked the underlying problems. The first was improvements in the terms of trade, or the relationship between export and import prices. Prices of imports over this period became cheaper, which meant that Britain could afford to pay for more imports with a given quantity of exports. In practical terms, this meant a rise in the standard of living, as the prices of, for example, foodstuffs fell, even though export performance was not good. The second factor was the astonishingly large investment incomes being earned by Britain's wealthy investors abroad. Between the 1850s and 1913, the interest and dividends received in Britain from British investments abroad were substantially greater than the total net outflow of investment funds; this overall inflow of funds enabled Britain to import quantifies of goods which would have been out of the question if financed by exports alone. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE FIRST WORLD WAR: CRISIS AND REORGANIZATION</span> </h4>
We have seen in the previous section that British economic per-formance in the forty years before the First World War was characterized by an increasingly weak performance in the old staple industries, compounded by the non-development of the new, research-based industries which were growing rapidly elsewhere. Inevitably, the economic demands of the First World War forced substantial industrial changes. It was a matter of more than embarrassment when it emerged that the dyes for British army uniforms were imported from Germany. And the German lead in <br />
<br />
THE. LONG DECLINE • 71 <br />
chemicals - and in consequence, explosives - clearly had to be cut back. <br />
<br />
The government faced formidable economic problems. Firstly, there was the difficulty of organizing any production at all in the context of a severely restricted labour supply. Over five million men were called up in the course of the war, and it became necessary for the government to intervene heavily in the allocation of labour to industry, and in the training and employment of women workers. Secondly, there was the problem of ensuring that resources went to the right industries: that luxury goods production, for example, did not grab inputs needed for munitions and so on. Thirdly, there was the problem of creating industries which either did not exist, or which were too small for the needs of war. Finally, the population had to be fed. <br />
<br />
These problems were all successfully solved through an increasingly complex system of government control and intervention. The government ended up rejecting decisively the frenetic calls to fight the war with 'business as usual', with which the war had opened. First, it took control of imports and exports, and of a large proportion of British shipping. Next, and perhaps most importantly, came the munitions industry. Government direction here involved not just the manufacture of arms and ammunition, but complete control of raw material supply and purchase, of all ancillary industries, and even of the manufacture of the necessary tools. By the end of the war the ministry had organized a major supply process involving three and a half million workers, and over twenty thousand production establishments. This effort was a formidable achievement, and arguably the basis of eventual military victory, if victory is the appropriate word. But it was certainly an economic success, as the official history of the Ministry of Munitions pointed out: 'the practical application (of control) to munitions and non-munitions industries, aided by the control of materials and the operation of the priority principle, resulted in an enormous increase in output, more efficient industries and great economies of production' . At the same time, the government engaged in a wide range of other economic activities. Some of them, as Professor Sidney Pollard has indicated, were of epoch-making significance: <br />
<br />
72 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Scientific research, for example, unduly neglected by British industrialists, was stimulated by the government which set up in July 1915 a department to promote scientific research in industry ... The discovery of applied science by British industry may be said to have dated from those years, though it was still in an embryonic state.[4]</blockquote>
And the government was instrumental in establishing such industries as ball hearings, scientific instruments and modem chemical products, tungsten manufacture and so on. It also played, for obvious reasons, the central role in the expansion and modernization of the tiny aircraft industry, and in the rapid growth of car and truck production. It controlled imports rigorously, and marketed about 8o per cent of all food sold in Britain, which was done through a controlled price system which prevented profiteering and contained inflation; purely in terms of nutrition, the British population survived the war in much better shape than the German. Economic and industrial achievements such as these were surely the only positive result of a period which was otherwise one of unremitting horror. Britain entered the war with an outdated industrial structure. It emerged from it, despite the economic chaos of the post-war world economy, with at least some of the technical basis for modernization. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">WASTE, TURMOIL, RECOVERY: THE INTER-WAR YEARS </span></h4>
The economic control system of the war had unequivocally succeeded, and one might think that the problems of reconstruction could have been tackled with the same administrative apparatus (or at least some version of it). Certainly the problems facing the post-war economy justified the term 'emergency'. Yet, in the words of one economic historian, "contrary to the explicit intentions of the War Cabinet and the Ministry of Reconstruction, the controls were frenetically disbanded by Lloyd George's government elected in 1919" [5] Britain was returned post-haste to the free-market, <i>laissez-faire</i> economics of the pre-war period. This happened, however, in an infinitely more hostile economic environment. Nevertheless, against heavy odds, new industries began to emerge in the post-war world. The economy finally began the transition into <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 73 <br />
modernity: unfortunately it did so in an incomplete way, producing a curious mixture of success and failure. <br />
<br />
For the first time, the 'new industries' came to have a significant weight in the economy. The motor vehicle industry, for example, began a dramatic expansion, doubling its number of workers between 1923 and 1938. In 1913 Britain had produced about 34,000 cars and trucks; this reached nearly 150,000 by the mid 1920s, and no less than 493,000 vehicles in 1937. This was nearly a quarter of the net output of the entire engineering sector. During this period also the chemicals industry expanded and was reorganized, with the formation of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Chemical_Industries">ICI</a> in 1926 out of a myriad of smaller, uncoordinated companies, the bits and pieces which had hitherto comprised the industry. It rapidly moved into new products and processes, to become a major success. Entirely new products, such as artificial fibres and fabrics (meaning essentially viscose, or 'artificial silk'), emerged, to become the basis of large-scale companies - such as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtaulds">Courtaulds</a> - and industries. And between the wars the electrical engineering industry more than doubled its size, employing nearly 350,000 people by 1938. All of these 'new industries' grew rapidly in the 1930s, both in terms of output and employment. Yet against this expansion had to be set stagnation if not outright collapse in the old staple industries. Output in textiles, shipbuilding and mining grew very slowly, and employment fell. The massive unemployment in these industries in the early 1930s was only the worst phase of a prolonged depression. Recovery came only in the late 1930s, and even then was weak (with the exception of steel: but its sharper recovery was entirely due to rearmament demand, and was facilitated by high tariff protection). The collapses were in part caused by a general decline in the level of world trade, and the wider use of tariff barriers around the world. But they were exacerbated by the way in which low productivity in Britain inhibited the ability of these industries to compete. One historian has spoken recently of <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
differences in productivity between British and foreign industries of such an order to be unattributable to statistical error. For 1936 ... in relation to the corresponding British industries, physical productivity per man in German coalmines and coke ovens was so per cent higher, in cotton spinning, rayon and silk between 20 per cent and 23 per cent higher, and in blast </blockquote>
<br />
74 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
furnaces, steel smelting and rolling between to and 20 per cent higher. Comparative figures for the USA were even more striking: productivity was substantially higher in all US industries and enormously higher in some, with a maximum difference of 200 per cent for blast furnaces.[6] </blockquote>
To a certain extent, dependence on the staple industries for export receipts declined, from 42 per cent of export earnings in 1929 to 37 per cent in 1937. But the volume of exports in 1937 was only 77 per cent of the 1929 figure, which indicates the seriousness of the collapse of the staple exports. This led, of course, to serious unemployment in those industries; in each of them, unemployment at least doubled between 1929 and 1931, and was slow to recover. In coal, over 40 per cent of the workforce was unemployed; in iron and steel about half; and in shipbuilding about 60 per cent were out of work. Since the average level of unemployment for the whole country, at the bottom of the slump in 1931, was 22 per cent, it can be seen that the old staple industries bore the brunt of the depression. Unemployment in Britain was therefore not just an effect of a major world recession; it was also the price to be paid for the concentration of industrial resources in mines, mills and shipyards - 'unwanted places', in Professor Sayer's words [7] — producing products which were of declining industrial importance and, moreover, doing so inefficiently. Growth in the 'new industry' products ameliorated but did not offset this collapse.<br />
<br />
Overall industrial development during the inter-war period was therefore a complex mixture of success and failure: success in actually generating new industries, failure in either improving the performance of the old, or in having the new grow fast enough to absorb the masses of unemployed thrown out by the contraction of the staple industries. Despite the expansion of the chemicals industry, for example, by 1938 it was still employing less than half the number of workers who had been employed in the German industry before the First World War (and this was only partly the result of labour-displacing technical improvements). <br />
<br />
Furthermore there were potentially serious problems within the new industries, likely to inhibit their competitiveness, export performance and indeed whole future. These were to do with their technological level and the technical character of their products. The <br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 75 <br />
future of these industries lay in mass markets, in high-volume production, in innovation both in the products themselves and in the process of their production. This in turn placed a premium on design, where new standards were required which could link high quality with cheapness and large-scale production. But in many of the British 'new industries' another route was taken. In cars, for example, the market was restricted to the well-off, largely because of a very uneven distribution of income in the society as a whole. In 1938 there were 39 cars per 1,000 inhabitants in the UK; in the USA it was 194. This led car producers to aim not at a mass market, but at high-quality specialization: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
In 1939 the six leading British producers, making roughly 350,000 private ears, turned out more than 40 different engine types and an even greater number of chassis and body models, which was considerably more than the number offered by the three leading producers in the US, making perhaps 3,500,000 cars [8] </blockquote>
At the same time German production, though initially lower than the British, was growing faster and on the basis of mass-market, low-priced cars. Its methods were exemplified by the Volkswagen 'beetle', a type which eventually sold 20 million world-wide. In Britain, be-cause car ownership was so restricted, it came - as so many things do in Britain - to be tied up with social status. This meant that it could be positively dangerous to produce a low-priced car, as Ford found to their cost in the 1930s: 'nobody wanted to keep down with the Joneses', as some recent commentators remarked of one Ford failure.[9] <br />
<br />
Similar problems of design and method and market strategy can be found in other 'new industries'. Employment in electrical engineering doubled, it is true; but so did the level of imports into the UK, particularly from the USA. In terms of design, quality and price British radios, vacuum cleaners and so on were little match for the American competition. The flood of imports was only stemmed in 1932 with the introduction of protective tariffs; unfortunately, while these did protect employment in the industry, they also sheltered its limitations in terms of design, quality and production. <br />
<br />
76 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION</span></h4>
This chapter has been concerned with what happened in the UK industrial economy between 1870 and the late 1930s, rather than why it happened. Some explanations will be considered in later chapters; for the time being, what matters is the course of British economic development, not the reasons for it. Two broad trends have been identified. The first is a weak growth performance, both in terms of output and productivity. This is true both in relation to Britain's own historical record, and also in comparison with its major trading rivals. Table 12 tells the story to the eve of the First World War. <br />
<br />
<i>Table 12. Long-term growth rates, 1870/1 - 1913 (% per year) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Industrial Industrial Exports<br />
production productivity (18<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">8</span>0-1913) </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">2.1 0.6 2.2 UK<br />
4.7 1.5 3.2 USA<br />
4.1 2.6 4.3 Germany<br />
3.1 n/a 2.6 France</span><br />
Source: D. H. Aldcroft, ed.,<i> The Development of British Industry. and Foreign Competition </i>1875-1914, London, 1968, p. <br />
<br />
The trends visible in this table were continued after the war, as the USA recovered in the mid 1930s, and as Germany reflated its economy vigorously, behind tariff barriers, after Hitler's accession to power. <br />
<br />
The second trend, far less easily captured in figures, was a rigidity in the face of technological change. The British economy did not respond with the flexibility and vision necessary to take advantage of new technological opportunities, and thereby to solve — or help to solve — its competitive and employment problems. 'Britain's industrialisation process, was exceptional,' as two historians recently pointed out, 'as one in which there was a period (two or three decades after 1870) when the birth rate of new industries in the British economy was very low indeed."[10] And when those industries finally emerged, their growth was in many ways restricted, and their<br />
<br />
THE LONG DECLINE • 77 <br />
developmcnt inadequate. It was this rigidity, combined with the non-modernization of the old staple industries, which underlay Britain's relatively poor growth performance. <br />
<br />
It should be pointed out that there has been a major debate in recent years, among economic historians, over whether or not the British economy 'failed' in some sense in the late nineteenth century. Was its performance due, for instance, to a failure by entrepreneurs to recognize and exploit new opportunities in products and processes? Was there a failure by the banking system or by investors in the providing of industrial finance? There are some influential economic historians who take the view that, given Britain's particular circumstances (its available resources, its inherited industrial structure, the world economic context) it is unreasonable to expect anything other than what happened. They reject the idea, therefore, that anyone should be blamed for what happened. But even the strongest proponents of this view accept that the consequences of what happened were serious: they accept that, 'with the benefit of hindsight we can sec that twentieth century Britain has paid a considerable price for the industrial concentration that led to the export of a few commodities to relatively few markets by the eve of the First World War ... the loss to the economy was enormous.' [11] <br />
<br />
The long-term significance of the industrial rigidity of the British economy, and the decline which it generated, lay not just in the unemployment and misery of the 1930s, tragic and pointless though they were. It lay in the fact that the industrial structure developed at that time, with all its inadequacies and failures, was the basis for the next phase of development: that of the Second World War and its aftermath. Though British economic performance was to improve dramatically, it remained handicapped by its industrial heritage, and indeed was to continue to repeat the errors of a previous generation. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>4</i></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"> <span style="color: red;"><i>The Post-War Boom</i></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
The post-war economic era, for the advanced economics of Europe and North America, divides into two distinct phases. The first runs from about 1950 to 1973: a phase of full employment, relatively low inflation and of sustained economic growth at un-precedentedly high rates. Then the 1970s ushered in a period of much more hesitant growth, of high inflation and unemployment: an experience in marked contrast to that of the previous quarter of a century. This chapter deals with the factors underlying the post-war boom; it discusses the main areas of expansion which motivated it, and then moves on to consider Britain's performance during those years. Two central points will emerge. The first is that the boom will not easily be recreated; in fact it may have gone for good. The second is that, in Britain's performance in those years, we can clearly discern major problems in industrial performance and technological development. We arc living with the legacy of these problems. Much of the following discussion is inevitably in outline form, for our under-standing of both the boom and the stagnation/inflation recession which followed it is at a very preliminary stage. But the main lines of development can certainly be identified.<br />
<br />
The boom itself was far from inevitable. Few, at the end of the Second World War, can have foreseen the path of economic development which lay ahead for Western Europe. Where the economies were not in physical ruins, they faced enormous problems of conversion from war production. Where there were not ghastly scenes of hunger and deprivation, there were seemingly intractable difficulties in creating jobs for the demobilized millions of men and women. It would have been a rash economist indeed who predicted a future of prosperity and full employment emerging from this post-war chaos. <br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 79 <br />
And indeed, most economists held out little hope, feeling that the best which could be achieved would be an avoidance of the grim years of instability and depression which had followed the First World War. In Britain, influenced by policy ideas coming from Keynes and his associates, the government had committed itself (in a 1944 White Paper called 'Employment Policy') to policies aimed at maintaining 'a high and stable level of employment'. But what did this objective of, 'full employment' actually mean? Most, including Keynes himself, thought it would involve at least 5 per cent of the workforce permanently out of work, and few gave much for the prospects for growth. The actual outcome was, of course, very different from such gloomy prognoses. There followed a quarter of a century of rapid growth at rates which had never before been achieved by capitalist economies. As we saw in Chapter 1 the European economies expanded at about 5 per cent per year. Over the whole post-war period to 1973 this meant a doubling of annual output every 14 years, or a staggering 400 per cent increase in incomes in about one generation. Japan, especially from the late 1950s, grew even faster. There were many sceptics when Prime Minister Ikeda announced a plan to double income in ten years, with a projected annual growth rate of 7.2 per cent. In fact, from 1959 to the early 1970s, the Japanese economy grew at nearly 11 per cent per year, doubling its output every seven years. Prices rose surprisingly slowly; even in Britain, which had the worst record on inflation, the average inflation rate between 1948 and 1973 was under 4 per cent. And unemployment was in effect no problem; on the contrary, almost all of the advanced economics pulled in immigrant labour to satisfy growing demand for labour. So for the advanced economies these were years of outstanding success. It was a success in which Britain shared, though in a hesitant and ambiguous way which complicates assessment of Britain's record. The facts are that over the post-war period Britain grew at a rate of just under 3 per cent per year; thus, over the twenty-five years, annual output doubled. Incomes, in terms of real weekly earnings, doubled also. The proportion of national income devoted to new investment in the economy more than doubled in relation to the pre-war era. In even more striking contrast with the pre-war world was the employment picture. In the twenty years before the war <br />
<br />
<br />
80 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
unemployment was never less than a million; for thirty years after the war, until 1975, it never, except for a couple of weeks, rose above a million. The average proportion of the workforce unemployed between 1920 and 1938 was 10.6 per cent; between 195t and 1973 it was 1.9 per cent. All of this implied a spectacular improvement in the standard of living of the population, as incomes rose, as working conditions improved and the working week shortened, as nutritional and housing standards improved, and as ownership of consumer durables such as washing machines expanded. At the same time the construction of the National health Service meant better access to medical care, while the improved provision of unemployment pay, child allowances and sickness benefits sharply reduced the economic risks to which the pre-war British population had been exposed. Harold Macmillan was right in 1959: Britain had indeed never had it so good. <br />
<br />
There is a problem in evaluating this record, however. Should we regard it as one of success or failure? The difficulty is a simple one: if we are to say it was a success, then we should really ask, a success in relation to what? In fact, two quite different pictures seem to emerge depending on what we use as a standard of comparison. If we compare post-war Britain with its own previous history, then the 1950s and 1960s are years of unqualified success. Table 2-3, outlining the growth of output and of output per worker points this up. <br />
<br />
Table 13. Growth of GDP and GDP per man-year in the UK (%) <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> GDP GDP per man-year<br />
1856-1873 2.2 1.3 <br />
1873-1913 1.8 0.9 <br />
1924-1937 2.2 1.0 <br />
1951-1973 2.8 2.4 </span><br />
Source: <i>R.C.O. Matthews et al, British Economic Growth 1856-1974, </i>Oxford, 1983. <br />
<br />
Note that after the Second World War the growth rate accelerates; but even more noticeable is the growth in productivity - in output per worker - which jumps to nearly two-and-a-half times the pre-war <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 81 <br />
rate. What makes the post Second World War growth all the more remarkable is that it occurred in the context of full and expanding employment, something which was really quite new for Britain. Moreover it was relatively steady growth: the earlier periods in table 13 contained sub-periods of slump and stagnation - from 1899 to 1924, for example, income grew at barely 0.5 per cent per year. So in these historical terms the post-war years are years of straightforward success.<br />
<br />
The picture changes sharply, however, when we make the comparison in international terms. Table 14 gives us both a historical comparison and an international one; it picks up the way Britain's growth accelerated after the war, but also shows its poor performance relative to others. <br />
<br />
Table 13. Long-run GDP trends in Europe (% inc. per year) <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1870-1913 1922-37 1953-73 <br />
1.6 1.8 5.3 France<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">2</span>.8 3.2 5.5 Germany<br />
1.5 2.3 5.3 Italy<br />
3.2 0.8 5.1 Austria<br />
1.9 2.4 3.0 UK</span><br />
Source: A. Mahe, ed., The European Economies: Growth and Crisis, London, 1982, p. 22. <br />
<br />
These higher growth rates of the European economies were not simply a matter of catching up from a lower level, or recovering from lower levels of output due to war damage. Many European economies had indeed been hit harder by the war than Britain, and one might expect them to grow faster while they rebuilt. But the important thing is that their growth rates were maintained, and they soon overtook Britain. Having done so, they continued their rapid growth until Britain's income levels were far surpassed.<br />
<br />
Thus we have a contrast between Britain's performance seen in a historical light, and its performance seen in an international context. 'Hence,' as the authors of a major recent study remark, 'arises the <br />
<br />
<br />
82 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
persistent dilemma in the study of British economic growth in the post-war period: is the task to explain why Britain did so well or why it did so badly?' [1]<br />
<br />
Resolving this dilemma seems to depend on what it is we want to know. If, for example, we want to assess the effects of some change within Britain - such as the adoption of new types of government economic policy - then we should use Britain's own historical record; in that ease the post-war period is one of success. If, however, we are concerned with Britain's competitive position, then international comparisons are appropriate, and Britain's record looks much less happy. For our purposes it is the international context which matters, since we are concerned with the way Britain's record in technological development affected both its trade performance and its growth path. So in assessing Britain's past and present performance we need to begin with the post-war boom itself, looking at the factors underlying it, the extent to which Britain lagged behind comparable economies, and finally at the reasons for this lag. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE BOOM </span></h4>
At the end of the Second World War the United States exercised unequivocal political, technological and economic leadership over the non-communist countries of the world. The war had massively expanded the US economy and produced an acceleration of technical advance, where others had barely survived. And the US government grasped the opportunity which this offered: to refashion the world economy, if not in its image, then at least to its liking. American foreign policy thus laid exceptional emphasis on economic objectives in the reconstruction of the post-war world, and developed forceful and on the whole clear ideas about the instruments which would achieve those objectives. The objectives were in fact complex and various, but one had overwhelming priority: to prevent the further expansion of communist regimes in Europe, and to enhance the ability of Western European capitalism to survive any socialist challenge. Clearly this implied flourishing European market economics. The American strategy to achieve this had three main components. They were: <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 83 <br />
<br />
<i>1. Marshall aid. </i>In order to raise their levels of both consumption and investment, the European economies needed to import both goods and technology from the US. But how could they pay, when they were unable to export enough to the USA to generate the dollars needed for American imports? The US government was acutely conscious of this problem. It therefore eschewed the rigid demands for reparations and repayments of war loans which had followed the First World War, and instead granted aid under the so-called Marshall Plan. Over a four-year period from 1948 some $12.5 billion in grants and credits were extended to Europe. This helped to overcome what one writer has called 'the fundamental imbalance between the heavily strained European economies and the technologically-superior productive apparatus of the United States [2].<br />
<br />
<i>2. Trade liberalization.</i> <br />
Perhaps the most uniform reaction to the depression of the 1930s had been the adoption of policies of protection. In order to prevent or slow the rise in unemployment, governments had tried to cut imports by protective tariffs, quotas and duties. International trade slowed down in consequence, and this in turn hampered growth and recovery. The Americans, partly though not solely in their own self-interest, were desperately concerned to prevent both a return to a 'protectionist' trading environment, and the re-establishment of protected •ones like the British Empire. They un-hesitatingly used their political influence, in a most determined way, to restore free international trade. The ultimate result was GATT - the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade - 'the world's first multi-lateral trade order', a significant move towards free international trade. <br />
<br />
<i>3. A stable international financial system.</i> <br />
If the advanced economies were to grow then international trade must grow; this implied the need for a regular system of finance and payments. The central requirements for a world trading and finance system were that it should be stable and predictable, with a basic 'world' currency which was in adequate supply. At the Bretton Woods conference of 1944 the Allies agreed on a structure based on fixed exchange rates, pegged against the dollar, which was itself pegged against gold at the rate 835 = 1 oz of gold. Two new institutions - the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank - were set up to aid countries with balance of payments difficulties, and to finance development projects. <br />
<br />
84 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
The US dollar thus became the basic currency of world trade, the supply of dollars into the world economy eventually being assured by persistent US balance of payments deficits, which the US covered by, in effect, exporting dollars. <br />
<br />
These three building blocks - Marshall aid, trade liberalization and the Bretton Woods system - made up the basic framework: there were, however, expansionary factors at work, which promoted the dramatic burst of growth outlined above. The first was the technological lead of the USA itself. Since the USA was the clear technological 'leader' others had the opportunity of drawing on its technological know-how by importing US equipment. And since a large backlog of technological possibilities had built up over the war years, European enterprises had the opportunity to cut their costs sharply and raise profits by deploying US technologies. This led to a wave of investment in Europe: the rate of growth of the stock of capital - factories, machines, etc. - accelerated, from under 2 per cent per year over 1913-50, to nearly 5 per cent per year over 1950-73. The result was sharp increases in the growth of output and also increases in productivity. The second factor at work was government economic policy. Much though the Keynesian era is now decried, the policies of expansionary demand which were widely adopted produced results, as Angus Maddison rightly points out: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The main achievement was success in nurturing a buoyancy of demand which had been created during the war and Marshall Plan period and which kept the economics within a zone of high employment. The lowered attention to risks of price increases or payments difficulties, and the absence of crassly perverse deflationary policies were the most important features differentiat-ing post-war demand management from pre-war policy. The payoff was much bigger than could have reasonably been anticipated ... given the favourable supply factors in Europe and Japan, growth performance reached unparalleled proportions. [3]</blockquote>
The pay-off was so big because, in a context of high and stable demand, enterprises were acutely conscious of the risks of not investing: they would face an inability to meet demand, a loss of market share, and reduced profits, So they invested, and the 1930s and 1960s were <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 85 <br />
thus years of exceptionally high investment. This was the biggest single contributory factor in the accelerated growth of the post-war boom. Accompanying these developments was the final factor: a major expansion of world trade. Exports from the industrialized countries grew at 7 per cent per year in the 1950s and 10 per cent per year in the 1960s. Within this expansion of trade, the most dynamic and important part was played by trade in manufactures between the advanced capitalist countries.<br />
<br />
We can, then, sum up the post-war boom as follows. Within the context of a stable international financial system, policies facilitating growth and full employment were adopted; Western governments in general promoted buoyant demand within their economies. These measures met a ready response on the production side of the economy. Enterprises took full advantage of available technological opportunities in meeting rising demand. The high levels of investment which ensued led to rising productivity, profits and incomes; and this maintained the impetus behind further investment and growth. Over this period prices were relatively stable for three reasons. Firstly, the growth in productivity kept down costs of production even though incomes were growing; since industrial prices are based on costs, then price increases were constrained. Secondly, raw material prices -especially for oil - were low. Thirdly, the fixed exchange rate system inhibited the inflation rates of individual countries (because, with fixed rates, if a country raises prices then it loses out in export markets, and must then depress demand in order to get the balance of payments back into equilibrium; this tends to return the rise in prices back to the international 'norm'). <br />
<br />
This account of the post-war boom has concentrated, so far, on quite general pre-conditions for accelerated growth. In previous chapters, however, it was emphasized that economic growth is very much a matter of technological change: of new processes, and new products. This involves the commitment of resources to research and development, to innovative improvements in the performance and design of products which are in growing demand. So we turn now to the products on which post-war growth was based, and then to the growth records of different countries in terms of their innovative performance within these product groups. <br />
<br />
86 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">FAST-GROWING PRODUCTS IN POST-WAR GROWTH AND TRADE </span></h4>
Post-war Western European growth was founded on the construction of a consumer society. As income grew, and as income inequalities evened out somewhat, markets for consumer goods expanded. Large numbers of people now had access to products which had previously been the preserve of an affluent minority. Pre-eminent among such products were cars, and consumer durables (record-players, radios, refrigerators, freezers, washing machines and so on). Expansion in these areas naturally promoted expansion in the production of inputs to such goods: in steel, chemicals, machine tools, electrical and electronic components and so on. The growth of all of these products was rapid, but that of cars was particularly spectacular, as table 15 indicates. <br />
<br />
Table I5. Output of private cars (thousands) <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
W. Germany France Italy Britain Spain <br />
1950 219 237 100 523 0 <br />
1960 1,877 1,136 596 1,362 42 <br />
1969 3,380 2,168 1,477 1,729 379 </span><br />
<br />
Source: drawn from B. R. Mitchell,<i> European Historical Statistics 1750-1970</i>, London, 1981, Table E25, p. 469. <br />
<br />
The table shows that total car output increased, in these countries, by 730 per cent in less than thirty years; note that Britain's increase was considerably lower (about 230 per cent), and that despite an initial advantage it was rapidly surpassed by France and Germany. Consumer goods matched this kind of expansion: Lars Anell has pointed out that, in effect, 'homes turned into small factories for the production of an ever increasing amount of goods and services ... a person working at home now draws on greater machine investments than a factory worker before the First World War.' [4] In general, the growth of world trade reflected this pattern of production growth. Particularly fast-growing products in internantional<br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 87 <br />
trade included office machinery, consumer durables, cameras, machine tools, cars and trucks, plastics and general chemicals. <br />
<br />
Within this structure of growth and trade, two questions arise in evaluating the performance of any particular economy. The first concerns its output mix. Was it actually producing and exporting within the fast-growing sectors of world production and trade? Secondly, if it was in the right product groups, was it actually producing them well enough? Was it matching its competitors in terms of product performance, quality and price? Concretely, this means, was it devoting enough in the way of research and development resources to the task of innovation; was it keeping pace with technological advances in products and processes? <br />
<br />
On the first of these questions - was the output mix right? - there are some formidable statistical problems in making inter-country comparisons. But the evidence indicates that Britain's output composition has not been wildly out of line with that of other major industrial economics. Similarly with exports: a study some years ago suggested that the proportion of UK exports in the fast-growing sectors of world trade was much the same as other advanced countries. But if there seems no problem in the broad types of goods being produced, there may remain considerable problems in the detailed characteristics of these goods. Britain may, for instance, be producing cars and radios, but what if they do not match the performance standards, quality, reliability and general technological level of competing cars and radios? This is very much a matter of the commitment of research and development (R & D) resources. So in examining Britain's relatively poor post-war performance it remains to look at the question of industrial R & D, and the contribution it has made to Britain's economic performance. It is in this area, in fact, that we find serious problems; it is the weaknesses here which underlie Britain's economic decline. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">BRITAIN'S RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT (R & D) RECORD </span></h4>
An important first point to make about R. & D and technological change is that there are no simple measures of innovative performance.<br />
<br />
88 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
In this section the level of R & D expenditure in any particular area is taken as an indicator of the commitment to technical innovation in that area. But it should be noted that technical change can occur without formal R & D spending. New technologies can be imported rather than self-developed, for example. However, in practice it turns out that output growth and export success are closely linked with direct spending on R & D, so there is a strong case for taking that as the first measure of innovative activity.<br />
<br />
Two central aspects of R & D are important. The first is the level of spending on R & D activity, the amount of funds actually devoted to such work. So question one is, is the <i>scale </i>of R & D expenditure adequate? This is important because the amounts of money spent on R & D often need to be very large. Recent research on the aircraft and computer industries, for example, has shown that 'research, development and design costs exceeding £100 million are by no means uncommon for a new generation of products and they have been known to reach £1,000 million'.[5] Scale is thus important because there is no point being in some industries at all unless an adequate level of R & D funds are committed. The sums involved in modern R & D are frequently so vast that governments often play a large part either in the provision of such funds, or in the overall coordination of R & D expenditure.<br />
<br />
Next on the agenda is the <i>direction </i>of R & D, or its allocation: that is, it must be spent on the right sorts of activities. Given that the sums involved are huge, they invariably require a large volume of sales of the subsequent product if the development costs are to be recovered. This means that R & D expenditure must be directed towards products and processes where demand is strong and growing. And if possible it must be used in areas where a country has some kind of competitive advantage.<br />
<br />
Against the background of these considerations, how has Britain performed? In terms of the level of R & D expenditure things do not seem serious: Britain devotes about the same proportion of industrial output to R & D as other major countries. But because our output and income are less than other countries, this means that the absolute level of spending is less. Moreover, it has been pointed out that 'Britain was the only OECD (i.e. advanced) country where industry-<br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 89 <br />
financed R & D activities decreased absolutely between 1967 and 1975. [6] More significant than the level of R & D for Britain, however, has been the activities on which it has been spent. <br />
<br />
Recall that the central products on which post-war growth and trade have been based are vehicles, machinery (including consumer durables) and chemicals. These are <i>not</i>, as it happens, the areas on which Britain has concentrated its research and development effort. Rather, Britain has poured massive R & D resources into three other areas: aircraft, defence products (especially military electronics), and nuclear reactors. These preoccupations absorbed over 50 per cent of British R & D in the late 1960s (total industrial R & D in 1968-9 was approximately £650 million; just over £360 million went on aerospace, electronics and reactors). This pattern of R & D expenditure in the post-war years was very different from that of our competitors, as table 16 shows. It looks at the way R & D expenditure is distributed among activities by five major countries in a typical year of the post-war boom. <br />
<br />
Table 16. Industrial distribution of R & D expenditure in 1962 (%) <br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">UK France W.Germany Japan USA <br />
35.4 27.7 - - 36.3 <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Aircraft </span><br />
10.3 9.0 19.4 12.7 15.6 <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Vehicles & machinery</span> <br />
24.0 25.7 33.8 28.0 25.5 <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Electrical machinery & instruments</span> <br />
11.6 16.8 32.9 28.3 12.6 <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Chemicals</span> </span><br />
Source: C. Freeman and A. Young, <i>The Research and Development Effort in Western Europe, North America and the Soviet Union, </i>Paris, OECD, 1965. <br />
<br />
Thus, Britain put 35 per cent of its R & D effort into aircraft; Germany and Japan — zero. Rather, Germany and Japan concentrated on electrical products and chemicals. The thing which stands out about this table, therefore, is the way in which German and Japanese R & D has been concentrated in the really dynamic growth areas, the areas where markets were big and growing. <br />
<br />
<br />
90 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
Table 17 below, in a wider and more general way, also shows this. It is based on research into the R & D specialisms of a range of advanced economies, and it highlights the way in which the fastest<br />
<br />
<i>Table 17. Some comparative strengths and weaknesses in innovative performances </i><br />
<br />
<b>Comparative strengths</b> <br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Comparative weaknesses</i></b></span></div>
<b>Belgium </b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Ferrous and non-ferrous metals; stone, clay, glass; chemicals</span> <br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Transport equipment; household appliance</i></b></span> </div>
<b>France </b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Railroad equipment; motor vehicles and bicycles; soap and cleaning products</span><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Radio and TV; household appliances; machinery</i></b></span></div>
<b>W. Germany</b> <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Machinery; chemicals motor vehicles</span> <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><i><b>Petroleum; food; ship and boat building; radio and TV</b> </i></span></div>
<b>Italy </b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Household appliances; textiles; chemicals</span><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Radio and TV, ship and boat building; electrical transmission and distribution equipment</i></b></span></div>
<br />
<b>Japan </b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Radio and TV; ferrous metals </span><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Petroleum products, machinery, ordinance and missiles</i></b></span></div>
<br />
<b>Netherlands</b> <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Electrical and electronics; petroleum; chemicals </span><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Aircraft and missiles, transportation equipment</i></b></span></div>
<b>Sweden </b><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Metals and metal products; household appliances; motor vehicles; machinery; ship and boat building</span><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Chemicals, petroleum; textiles, radio & TV</i></b></span></div>
<br />
<b>Switzerland </b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Drugs; chemicals </span><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Petroleum, transportation equipment</i></b></span></div>
<br />
<b>UK</b><br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">Aircraft and missiles; engines and turbines; non-ferrous metals </span><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="color: red;"><b><i>Household appliances, radio and TV</i></b></span></div>
<br />
Source: K. Pavitt, ed., <i>Technical Innovation and British Economic Performance</i>, London, 1980, p.56 <br />
<br />
THE POST—WAR BOOM • 91 <br />
-growing economics of Europe and Japan concentrated their innovation effort on the mundane but vital commodity groups — vehicles, machinery products, chemicals — which provided the real thrust behind post-war growth.<br />
<br />
Britain's areas of specialism were thus ill-chosen, to put it mildly. Aeroplanes may be glamorous products, but they were simply not very significant in terms of market size. In 1961, for example, total exports of the products in table 16 above, by the nine biggest market economics looked like this (table 18): <br />
<br />
<i>Table 18 Export markets 1960-61 (total exports of nine economies) ($ million) </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">7215.2 Machinery, general </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">6086.6 Chemicals </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5062.4 Vehicles </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3837.6 Electrical machinery and instruments </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1551.2 Aircraft </span><br />
<br />
Source: drawn from <i>'Fast and Slow Growing Products in World Trade', </i>National Institute Economic Renew, no. 25, 1963, Table 2, p.24 <br />
<br />
This picture has, alas, altered very little since the early 1960s (except that the level of British R & D has declined). When the same group of nine European countries was surveyed in 1975, Britain was still carrying out 42 per cent of total aerospace research; and Britain still lagged badly in research in chemicals, mechanical engineering, and electrical and electronic engineering.<br />
<br />
In terms of government-financed R&D the picture is especially depressing. Government-backed R&D is particularly important in view of the large sums involved. The distribution of this crucial expenditure is especially interesting. In 1975, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands all put 50 per cent or over of R&D funds into basic scientific and technological research. Britain put in under 20 per cent. Only one country, France, spent over IT per cent of such funds on defence R&D (France spent 29.6 per cent). Britain however put 46.4 per cent of government R&D into defence. <br />
<br />
92 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
This pattern of research expenditure by Britain - that is, concentration on aircraft, military electronics and nuclear power - inhibited Britain's economic growth for three reasons. The first is that these were not and are not products on which major economic growth could be based, for the markets were simply too small. As we saw above, the export market for aircraft in 1960-61 (where Britain put 35 per cent of its R&D effort) was about a quarter of the size of the export market in chemicals (where Germany spent 33 per cent of its R&D funds). The nuclear reactor market appears to be neither large nor profitable, and the enormous research and development programme in Britain has resulted in the export sale of precisely two reactors (and those sales were twenty-five years ago). Secondly, these are all product groups in which Britain not only has a competitor, but the most formidable competitor it would be possible to have: the USA. Any rational policy for R&D should involve specialization not just in areas of growing demand, but also in areas where competitive pressures are not overwhelming. Even if Britain's aircraft R & 13 had produced the best aircraft in the world, which it did not, it would anyway have been difficult to sell them in the American market. One cannot but agree with Sir Arthur Knight, former chairman of the National Enterprise Board: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
It seems that much of our massive programme of investment in defence-related high technology products was directed towards products which the Americans were bound to be able to manufacture more competitively ... but these new activities were interesting and exciting and so they attracted a high proportion of our best young technologists; whereas in Germany the best young people were attracted into building up export-oriented, more down-to-earth mechanical engineering activities.[7] </blockquote>
<br />
Thirdly, these are not research areas which generate 'spin-offs', that is technological breakthroughs which have other uses and applications. We saw in Chapter a that German chemical expertise in dyestuffs generated a range of new products ranging from explosives to plastics (indeed a German book on applied chemical research in the early twentieth century bore the evocative title One Thing Afier Another). These spin-offs have played a large part in the continuing success of the German chemical industry; but they are not a conspicuous feature of British post-war R & D. <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 93 <br />
One could, therefore, sum up the post-war British technological record in this way. Even when British R & D resources were larger than those of competitors - which they are no longer - they were ludicrously mis-allocatcd. Britain concentrated on 'glamour' areas where markets were in fact derisory and the competition overwhelming. Furthermore, these problems, writes one R & D expert, Christopher Freeman, <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
were exacerbated by some extraordinarily inept public decision-making in relation to 'big' technology throughout the 50s and 60s. Concorde is the extreme example of unproductive but huge investment. Commercial and market factors were frequently ignored ... it took a long time before any government was prepared to stand up to the expert but special pleading of a high technology lobby in full cry. This applies particularly to aircraft and nuclear reactors, where prototype development and testing can be very expensive.[8]</blockquote>
The consequence of this research and development disaster was that British industry was progressively outstripped in technological terms by rival producers. New products and processes do not just happen - they require resources, and the resources simply were not committed to the job. Inadequate R & D meant that the UK lagged as the technological frontier was pushed further out by competitors; Britain increasingly failed to meet the new standards of product design, performance and quality which research was generating elsewhere. First. this meant a declining share of markets, and economic growth which was slower than more innovative rivals. Hence the relatively slow growth of the 1950s and 1960s; Britain really prospered mainly because world markets were expanding. Then, as the world economy slowed down, inadequate R & D meant industrial collapse and unemployment as British manufacturing failed even to be in the same game as competitors, let alone to compete. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The eventual outcome (writes G. F. Ray) can best be seen in the penetration of imports of all types of products into the UK market, probably manifesting itself most clearly in consumer goods. To take just two examples; the British audio industry, which had been significant, lost most of its markets because it neglected the growth areas of the tape recorder, the cartridge and the cassette; in the past live years about 10,000 jobs have </blockquote>
<br />
94 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
been lost in the television industry through lack of R & D ... but the best illustration can be found in the pathetic record of the UK motorcycle industry ... its market was first flooded with Italian scooters and mopeds and later by Japanese models which offered better performance at very competitive rates. The outcome is the virtual disappearance of the British industry.[9] </blockquote>
And this pattern of inadequate R & D, leading to loss of market share and then stagnation and collapse, has been amply documented in other industries. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">SUMMING UP: BRITAIN IN THE BOOM</span> </h4>
The argument, then, is that Britain performed poorly during the years of the post-war boom. Economic growth depends on the emergence of new products and processes which provide the focus for major programmes of investment. Britain failed to devote adequate resources to appropriate forms of research and development; and since R & D is the activity by which opportunities for new investment are searched out, this had serious long-term effects on Britain's growth prospects. The problems were masked during the long boom, because growing world markets offset Britain's increasingly poor performance. The reckoning arrived with the end of the boom, and it rook the form of declining manufacturing employment and output: <i>'de-industrialization'</i>. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE END OF THE BOOM </span></h4>
The analysis outlined above suggests that Britain's post-war prosperity was largely an effect of a world boom in which Britain per-formed, on the whole, poorly. A return to economic growth will thus imply overcoming economic problems internal to Britain, but will also involve restoring some semblance of stability to the world economy. The latter, however, will not be easily achieved, and it would be rash to think either that a world recovery will happen, or that it would benefit Britain if it did.<br />
<br />
The post-war boom collapsed in the early 1970s under the impact of a series of strains and shocks. The strains began with the Vietnam <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR ROOM • 95 <br />
war. The United States faced the prospect of financing this very unpopular war in the context of considerable social upheavals; these upheavals, particularly among the poor in the decaying central city areas, had led to a vast increase in government spending on health, education, employment and welfare programmes. This warfare-welfare combination was hideously expensive and the obvious need was for tax increases to finance it all. The government, however, was desperately concerned about opposition to the war, and had no desire to fuel it further. So there were no tax increases; and the first consequences were massive deficits in the government budget, as well as increases in the money supply. A further consequence was balance of payments deficits, as the US increased its imports to maintain its consumption levels as its own industry switched towards expanded production for war.<br />
<br />
These balance of payments deficits were financed simply by paying out dollars. This was possible because the basic currency of the post-war world economy was the dollar. In effect, people would accept dollars in payment for goods, knowing that the dollar was backed by gold (at the rate $35 = 1 oz gold). However by the late 1960s, the combination of US budget deficits and balance of payments deficits had pumped a huge volume of dollars - far greater than the US gold reserves - into the world financial system (and particularly into the European financial system). Dollar holders in Europe began to switch out of dollars. In the second week of August, 1971, this movement accelerated dramatically as nearly at billion moved through the ex-changes. US gold and foreign currency reserves could not stand the strain. In order to solve this problem the US government needed first to control its expenditure (and the war was still continuing, under President Nixon), and then to devalue its currency (and thus accept a reduction in income). There was, however, an alternative. In the words of an eminent banker, 'it appeared preferable to the US government simply to destroy the international monetary system'.[10] The Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates based on dollars collapsed, as the United States devalued, imposed import controls and stopped converting dollars into gold. No agreement could be reached among the advanced countries on a system to replace the Bretton Woods arrangements. For want of anything better, a confused <br />
<br />
96 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
system of floating rates emerged, injecting considerable uncertainty into the world economy.<br />
<br />
The world of floating rates permitted a sharp increase in inflation. Previously, fixed rates had constrained inflationary pressures - no one could inflate out of line with everyone else without a balance of payments crisis. Now, inflation simply resulted in a depreciation of the exchange rate. Within the uncertain framework of the post Bretton Woods system, governments were almost uniformly anxious about exchange rate and balance of payments problems. Invariably, therefore, they adopted policies based on restriction of economic activity; caution was carried to recessionary lengths, and contributed in a major way to the slowing down of growth.<br />
<br />
At the same time, for Western Europe, the technological opportunities which promoted post-war growth began to shrink as Europe caught up with the American technical lead. This was a main aspect of a slowing down in productivity growth which began in the late 1960s, in almost all of the advanced economies, and which in turn slowed down the possibilities for growth. <br />
<br />
Finally, of course, came the OPEC price rises in 1973-4, and subsequently in 1978-9, which exacerbated inflationary pressures and generated major problems in the world financial system as the rises pushed many countries into serious balance of payments deficits. Many countries filled these deficits by borrowing from private banks, and the consequence has been a major international debt crisis. <br />
<br />
The international context of the market economics is, therefore, now one of uncertainty and fluctuation. Some of its problems - such as the slowdown in productivity growth - are not well understood, and may not be solvable. Some problems - such as those of the international financial system - may be capable of solution; but solutions here will require a degree of political consensus and commitment which appears very unlikely to emerge. The post-war boom is unlikely, therefore, to reappear. 'World in dishevelled condition' reads a memorable entry in the diary of Keynes's Russian-born wife Lydia; she was writing in 1945, but things are the same and are likely to remain so. However, even in the unlikely event of a renewed international boom, Britain's internal problems will remain. Indeed, the material presented in these chapters indicates that the problems <br />
<br />
THE POST-WAR BOOM • 97 <br />
of low and misdirected innovative activities, hence poor investment and growth record, now threaten the viability of the British economy. It is these problems on which Britain must concentrate, and it would be foolhardy indeed to pin hopes on an international recovery. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>5 </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span><span style="color: red;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">The Crisis in Prospect</span> </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
Previous chapters have argued that Britain's problems are long term in character, and have become cumulative, self-reinforcing. One central feature of Britain's industrial development is easily found: it is a low rate of growth, compared to similar economies. We have seen that relatively slow growth characterizes Britain's performance for at least the past century, and is particularly noticeable over the whole of the post Second World War years, a period in which Britain has declined from relative prosperity and economic health to relative poverty and economic debility. It has been possible also to outline some of the mechanisms underlying that performance. Economic growth is based on flexibility, on technological renewal, on constant transition, on the systematic development of new products and processes. This requires the commitment of resources to research and development, which is the process by which opportunities for investment and growth are searched out. Britain's slow growth record is based on a lack of dynamism, and on some very poor decision-making, in this area: it has failed in the development of new products and processes, and has failed to match the technological standards being set elsewhere. To an important extent responsibility for this predicament mast he laid at the door of government, since the research and development resources needed by a modern industrial economy are so large that governments inevitably play a major role in their provision, coordination and use.<br />
<br />
So Britain's modern economic development is based, like that of any advanced economy, on a particular pattern of technological development. Rigidity and a lack of dynamism in technological research have led to lost markets and restricted demand, and to a consequent slowing in output and income growth. Failure to develop new techniques<br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT • 99 <br />
of production means that productivity growth is restrained or non-existent, and opportunities to produce at lower cost are missed. Slow growth and stagnating incomes in one period mean that resources for developing new technologies in subsequent periods are limited. Limited profits, limited investment, further limited growth — this cycle can rapidly become self-perpetuating. These problems have been spelled out in Chapters 3 and 4, which tell a dismal story of persistently inadequate and miscalculated research resources, and of increasingly worrying economic performance by the economy as a whole. The cumulative character of this cycle of development opens up the possibility of a critical point being reached in the long run, a point at which Britain will not merely be a poor competitor and slow grower, but will be unable to compete and will begin to decline not relatively but absolutely. But as we saw in Chapter t, that absolute decline has happened: it has in fact been with us for a decade. The long run has arrived.<br />
<br />
This growth record underlies the rather stark claim made in the introduction to this book: that the British economy is in crisis, in the sense that its traditional structure is no longer viable. It was suggested that those who think that the crisis is actually over, that we are leaving the danger zone rather than about to enter it, are mistaken. Mistaken also are those who think that a mere change of government will suffice to improve matters. This is because the first group mis-understand the nature of the transition which Britain is experiencing, while the latter seem to deny that it is taking place. The remainder of this chapter discusses the kind of 'structural' crisis which Britain is undergoing, and then goes on to consider some of the problems and possible futures before us. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A STRUCTURAL CRISIS? </span></h4>
In the first place, what is meant by talking of a 'structural crisis'? The `structure' of an economy could refer, for example, to its pattern of ownership and wealth, its institutions (firms, unions, government agencies, etc.), to its political and legal character, and so on. And 'crisis' could mean anything from unforeseen difficulties to major cataclysm. In this book the `structure' of the British <br />
<br />
<br />
100 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
economy has referred to three things, and their inter-connections. They are: <br />
1. the division of economic activities which characterizes Britain; that is, the framework of sectors - agriculture, services, manufacturing, primary industry, government - which make up the British economy; the composition of output which they produce; and the pattern of employment which they involve; <br />
2. the pattern of trade, that is of imports and exports, which connects this economic framework to the wider world economy; <br />
3. the levels of income and standards of living which this frame-work of production and trade makes possible. <br />
<br />
The 'structure' of the British economy can be summed up as follows. Britain, like most advanced economics, consists of a small but productive agricultural sector; a large industrial sector with manufacturing as its focus; and a service sector which has been increasing consistently in size. Agriculture employs less than 3 per cent of the workforce. The other sectors are characterized by marked, changes: in the 1950s, manufacturing and services each employed about 42.5 per cent of the workforce. Since then manufacturing has declined sharply, to less than 30 per cent of the workforce, while service employment is now somewhere over 50 per cent. This domestic economic structure is connected to the world economy through a particular pattern of trade: Britain has traditionally been a net exporter of manufactures and financial services, and a net importer of food and raw materials. The trade pattern underlies Britain's balance of payments, which forms a major constraint on its rate of growth and level of income. The real incomes and standards of living of the British population are an effect both of its level and type of domestic economic activity, and its ability to trade with the world and thus consume imports.<br />
<br />
To say that Britain is in crisis is to say that it is no longer capable of supporting this structure of production, employment and trade. If the pattern of production and trade is not viable, then Britain's levels of income are also unsustainable. It cannot support, in other words, its traditional pattern of consumption.<br />
<br />
In fact, as previous chapters have shown, the assertion that the 'traditional' structure might, at some time in the future, no longer <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT • 101<br />
function, is not quite correct. It no longer functions now. Britain is no longer a significant net exporter of manufactures, their place in our export structure having been taken by North Sea oil. This erosion of Britain's trade surplus in manufactures is not a recent development the general trend has been adverse for many years. Thus, in 1971, Britain exported manufactures which had a total value approximately twice that of manufactured imports; now the value of imports is greater than that of exports. One way of showing this trend is to plot the ratio of the value of exports to the value of imports in manufactures. When the ratio is greater than one, we have a surplus; when it is equal to one the surplus has disappeared. The following diagram (fig. 1) plots precisely this relationship, and the downward trend is clearly evident. <br />
<br />
Figure 1. Ratio of value of manufactured exports to manufactured imports, from 1971 <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEikMfr-dRo-qxsC7RL21dKu-vv2x2VFZF8-Y2D3iff123snJYxzCvrhdu6YlXooFvbIklxftzPIuTaihFH7KcunaZamL8pdIWcFuq6hyphenhyphen6Z-lxQJfEyuQ-0hY6NsWur7eTir-2w8pancZuib/s1600/manufactured-imports-v-exports-71-82.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="The ratio of manufactured exports to imports is 2:1 in 1971 but the graph falls to 1:1 in 1982 and still falling fast" border="0" height="446" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEikMfr-dRo-qxsC7RL21dKu-vv2x2VFZF8-Y2D3iff123snJYxzCvrhdu6YlXooFvbIklxftzPIuTaihFH7KcunaZamL8pdIWcFuq6hyphenhyphen6Z-lxQJfEyuQ-0hY6NsWur7eTir-2w8pancZuib/s640/manufactured-imports-v-exports-71-82.jpg" title="" width="640" /></a></div>
Source: Calculated from Table 2.3, 'Analysis by Commodity', UK Balance of Payments 1982. p15. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
102 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
One important point to note about this diagram is that the downward trend began well before North Sea oil came on stream. We cannot, therefore, ascribe this structural shift — as various economists and government spokesmen have done — purely to the effects of North Sea oil. One of the central supports of Britain's international economic position has, in effect, crumbled. <br />
<br />
So the crisis can be summed up in terms of Britain's decline as a major producer of manufactures. Manufacturing industry has been at the core of Britain's output, employment and export structure. Yet in the period 1970 to mid 1981, employment in manufacturing declined by 2.9 million workers, or 32 per cent. Output declined by 10.2 per cent and the export surplus in manufactures disappeared. Were it not for North Sea oil, Britain would be confronting desperate economic problems now. Instead, oil has permitted Britain to continue to consume imports as though nothing had changed. Since the ability to consume imports is part and parcel of our real income, i.e. of our real standard of living, it has helped to maintain our levels of income despite the decay of the traditional structure underlying those income levels. This would not matter if oil was a permanent fixture. But of course it is not. <br />
<br />
The critical questions for the future of the British economy thus turn on the transience of North Sea oil. In order to understand the effects of the decline and eventual disappearance of oil, we need to consider first what its impact on the UK economy has been we can then go on to outline some of the possibilities implied by its removal. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">IMPACT OF NORTH SEA OIL ON THE UK ECONOMY </span></h4>
Oil produces effects on the economy in two main ways. In the first place it massively strengthens the balance of payments, since it turns Britain from a big net importer of oil to being a smallish net exporter in 1976, for example, Britain imported nearly £4 billion of oil; four years later in 1980 this had completely turned around and became a net export of approximately £300 million. This strengthens the pound against foreign currencies, and enhances Britain's ability to consume <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT •. 103 <br />
imports (which can be paid for with the dollars earned from oil). It might also be expected to improve Britain's growth prospects by removing to some extent the external constraints on growth which were outlined in Chapter 2. In any case, as the pound strengthens, imports become relatively cheaper and this is one of the main mechanisms by which the benefits of North Sea oil are delivered to the British population generally. In the second place oil affects the government budget, via taxes on the profits being made in oil and gas production. Other things being equal, this would reduce the amounts of tax which individuals would need to pay (a second mechanism by which benefits are delivered), or it would enable the government to expand its activity (in, say, public investments) without increased general taxation or borrowing. <br />
<br />
In fact the enhanced prosperity and government opportunities made possible by oil have largely been swamped by the effects of recession. Recessionary economic policies meant that prospects for growth were rejected. The collapse of manufacturing meant that instead of increasing prosperity, North Sea oil simply enabled us to stay where we were. The possibility of tax reductions or in-creased government activity were lost because of increases in government expenditure on unemployment pay and the other expenses of recession. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">POSSIBLE EFFECTS OF DECLINE IN OIL </span></h4>
The fact that the prospective benefits of North Sea oil were missed dots not mean that the decline of oil will be of little consequence. Because it has not permitted prosperity but only masked the effects of crisis its advent has had little noticeable impact on Britain; its disappearance is a different matter. The critical problem is this: when oil begins to decline, Britain's non-oil exports will need to expand significantly if current levels of income are to be maintained in the long term. Can Britain adjust to a world in which it must export manufactures or services on a much larger sale than it dots at the present? If not, then it must reduce its consumption of imports, and hence its real income and standard of living, in order to maintain a basic balance of payments equilibrium. As oil declines, what <br />
<br />
104 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
are the prospects for reestablishing that structure or something like it? <br />
<br />
What, in other words, are the prospects for the development of the crisis? The key things to consider are firstly the likely developments, and secondly their time-scale. Here we face some major difficulties, since we are talking about an uncertain and unknowable future. It would be rash to hazard any particularly definite predictions, especially since this book is not an exercise in forecasting or futurology. Nevertheless the main elements in the situation can be outlined, as well as some of the tangible and intangible factors governing the chronology of developments. <br />
<br />
The key factor must clearly be the rate at which oil output will decline in the late 198os and early 1990s. A long slow decline in oil production would certainly be easier to cope with than a more or less sudden cut-off. Part of the problem here is that medium- and long-term projections for output are very uncertain. On current estimates however, oil output in the North Sea will retch its peak in 1984-5 and will begin to decline thereafter, probably at a rate of about 4 to 5 per cent per year. Britain will remain self-sufficient until the early 1990s, possibly even as long as the turn of the century. From a peak annual production of approximately 100 million tonnes it will still be producing significant amounts (i.e. to be counted in tens of millions of tonnes) well into the twenty-first century. For Britain, `self-sufficiency' means something in the region of 75 to 80 million tonnes of oil per year. So if these figures and rates of decline are roughly correct then Britain will be self-sufficient in 1990, but will need to import 15-20 million tonnes per year by 1995, and about 30 million tonnes per year at the turn of the century. At current prices, this would take us back- very roughly - to the 1976 position, of importing about £4 billion of oil products per year.<br />
<br />
Of course all of these projections are fraught with uncertainty. Recoverable reserves in the North Sea are not known with any great accuracy, and there is always the possibility that new fields will be discovered which will alter the general picture. This is unlikely, but not out of the question. On the other hand any increase in GDP in Britain would increase our oil consumption and thus affect our overall oil balances. <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT • 105 <br />
What will be the effects of a slowing of oil production? The most important concern the exchange rate and Britain's external position. As oil output begins to decline in volume (leaving price changes out of account here) the contribution by oil to the balance of payments and to the government's budget will also decline. This will exert downward pressure on the exchange rate. But much hangs on the extent and speed of any exchange rate slide, and this is unpredictable to say the least. If the exchange rate was determined only by current transactions (exports and imports of goods and services) then we might expect a steady gradual slide, if there were no offsetting in-creases in other exports. However, there are also capital account movements to consider. On the one hand the government may be able to engineer movements of capital into Britain, and this would ameliorate an exchange rate depreciation. On the other hand, holders of capital might take a longer view, and feel that in the face of a steadily deteriorating trade position Britain was not the place for their money. In that case we could expect a large-scale movement of capital out of Britain, and a more or less sudden and catastrophic collapse of the exchange rate. This seems to be the most likely development. <br />
<br />
Either way, the ultimate effect will be on the living standards of the British population. Exchange rate depreciation means that the prices of imports rise. This has an inflationary effect, but more importantly it reduces the real incomes - that is to say, the real amount of goods and services that are consumed - of the British people. Ultimately, the result of an unrestrained exchange rate collapse is a sharp contraction in incomes, though it may also have dramatic effects on inflation (as in Weimar Germany and many developing countries today) and on employment. One of the characteristics of underdeveloped countries is precisely this form of exchange rate and balance of payments constraint: such countries are unable to export enough to pay for the imports which would be needed if the economy were to increase its levels of employment and income. It is this kind of prospect which faces Britain as a result of the decay of its traditional export structure and manufacturing capability. A great deal depends, therefore, on whether anything will happen to offset or prevent this kind of exchange rate collapse as oil output declines. <br />
<br />
106 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CAN BRITAIN ADJUST TO IMPORTING OIL? </span></h4>
The crucial question is whether Britain can adjust to a world in which .we must increasingly import oil and consequently raise net exports to pay the bill. One approach would argue that this is no problem, that the declining.exchange rate would cause an automatic readjustment: as the exchange rate slides, exports from Britain become cheaper and imports to Britain become dearer. This would increase the sale of exports and decrease the volume of imports, thus keeping the balance of payments in constant equilibrium and generating a structural change in our economy to cope with our changed economic environment and resources. Elementary economic theorizing tells us that this is how things will pan out: in this view, the spectre I have raised above simply will not and could not materialize. However as the next section of this book argues, there is a great deal in elementary economics -and even in advanced economics - which is not to be trusted. Will exchange rate depreciation increase our exports by cheapening our goods? An important point to bear in mind - one emphasized in earlier chapters - is that manufactured exports are successful not simply because they are cheap, but because they are of high quality, good design and so on. Their technological characteristics are at latst as important as their price, which is why in the past devaluations and exchange rate depreciations have not had strikingly successful effects in improving Britain's manufactured exports record.<br />
<br />
There is little reason to believe, therefore, that an exchange rate slide will somehow suffice to reinstate manufactured exports in Britain's export structure. And here it is important to recall that we will be facing the decline of oil with a seriously eroded manufacturing base. It is no use, for example, for Britain to be able to manufacture machine tools cheaply if Britain does not in fact possess a machine tools industry. At the moment, that industry has in effect collapsed, and no amount of exchange rate depreciation will bring it back to life. These thoughts are even more worrying if we reflect that there seems little evidence that the present collapse in manufacturing will be reversed over the coming five to ten years. What evidence is there that the sharply downward trend in British manufacturing has been arrested, let alone that the basic industrial framework needed in the <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT • 107 <br />
future is being restored and reconstructed? Given that no significant change has occurred in the overall technological level of British manufacturing, that there has been no sign whatever of significant increase in the levels of research and development work, and continuing decline in productive investment, it would be surprising indeed if the whole trend of post-war development was suddenly reversed, and 1995 finds Britain with a manufacturing sector capable of dramatic export expansion. The conclusion must be that the decline of oil will not, in all probability, result in some smooth adjustment process by which manufactures regain their former place in Britain's trade pat-<br />
tern. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">DEVELOPING SERVICE EXPORTS - AN ALTERNATIVE? </span></h4>
But of course there is no law of economic life which says that Britain must export manufactures; there are other possible exports, notably services of various kinds. There are many who argue that Britain can and should develop its service exports as part of the solution to our economic problems.<br />
<br />
However the arguments for increased service exports are often less than convincing. The question should be asked, what kinds of services can Britain sell, and what quantity of them? In the past, Britain's main earnings from services have been derived from two areas: travel (i.e. tourism) and financial services (insurance, banking, investment services and so on). What possibilities are open to expand earnings in these activities? In terms of financial services, the City of London is in many ways a very efficient and competitive centre, but that does not mean that it is capable of accelerated growth. For a start, the world market for services is not growing particularly fast (it is growing more slowly than the market for manufactures, for example). More important perhaps is the fact - often forgotten - that Britain faces increasingly severe competition in this area. For a long period Britain had an effective monopoly in financial services, with London as the principal world centre; even after that monopoly disappeared, there were relatively few major world financial markets. But recent years have seen a rapid expansion of regional and offshore centres, and <br />
<br />
<br />
108 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
major new markets (as in, for example, Hong Kong). These increasing competitive pressures in the financial arena parallel the competitive pressures which British manufacturing faced in the middle and late nineteenth century. They make it very unlikely that Britain can hope to solve its forthcoming balance of payments problems through increased exports of financial services.<br />
<br />
Similar considerations apply to tourism. When people talk glibly of expanding earnings here it is simply necessary to ask, how many more German tourists, for example, do we need to make up the shortfall in export earnings elsewhere? Suppose we were to go back to the position of 1976, with a £4 billion deficit (in 1976 pounds) on our trade in oil, and assume no significant increase in present manufacturing or financial exports. Then, assuming that every tourist who enters Britain converts 42,000 of foreign currency into sterling, we would require a mere two million extra tourists. Given that world tourism is in decline at the moment such a development would be remarkable, as well as ghastly to experience (for both Britons and tourists). In any terse, it is simply not on the cards, and we cannot look to it for any important contribution to the balance of payments problems we face.<br />
<br />
Much the same can be said for other developing areas in service trade. Computer software, for example, is often held up as an expanding, dynamic activity, with export markets open to it. This is indeed true, and certainly Britain has skills in this field. But other countries have such skills also, and competition is increasingly fierce. Of course Britain should develop this industry, as vigorously as possible, but it is sheer fantasy to think that it is likely in itself to provide any sort of basis for sustained economic recovery. As with other sectors of the service economy, we can find here no panacea for our problems. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE CRISIS AND RECOVERY </span></h4>
Britain is in the throes of a serious economic crisis, in which its traditional economic structure is no longer viable. As North Sea oil output declines, we must face the prospect of a serious worsening of our foreign trade position, which will ultimately affect the lives of most of the British population. As we have seen, there seems little <br />
<br />
THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT • 109 <br />
likelihood of solving Britain's problems by recourse to expansion of other sectors of the economy, such as services. Just as the decline of manufactures is at the heart of Britain's decline, so the reconstruction of manufacturing industry must be the central component of a re-invigorated British economy. Even the so-called 'old' manufactures such as steel and vehicles remain dynamic and growing sectors in world trade and output. The manufacturing sector retains its historic and characteristic role as a central focus of the growth of demand, output and international trade. Recovery from the crisis is in large part a matter of reversing the trends of the past century, of setting a flexible, dynamic and forward-looking manufacturing industry in place of one which has proved so technologically rigid and ultimately moribund. <br />
<br />
But how is this reconstruction to be achieved? In the first place, major decisions must be taken with respect to economic policy. These concern the principles which should guide overall policy making, and the kinds of institutions and mechanisms which should exist to carry out policy decisions. To discuss the problems here, even in outline, is an enormous and complex task, well beyond the scope of a single book and perhaps of a single author. Yet the task should not be dodged, and the following sections of this book try to outline some of the problems in two important areas. The first is in the field of general economic policy: specifically, the kinds of ideas about the economy which guide the formation of policy. Economic theory is often misunderstood and misapplied, yet it also often forms a strategic guide for the formation of broad types of economic policy which have far-reaching implications for all of us. In order to begin thinking about policies for recovery we need at some point to tackle the question of what economic theory can and cannot do in assisting with the task at hand. So the next section looks at recent debates and advances in economic theory, at their relevance and irrelevance to the concrete and urgent problems ahead for Britain. The final section of the book considers industrial policy: the problems it must solve, the ways in which it is formed and carried out in some other countries, and the changes which might be needed in this field in Britain. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">PART TWO </span></span></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">THE ECONOMISTS</span></span></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<i><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">INTRODUCTION</span></i></h3>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Advanced research, in economics as in other sciences, often appears arcane and obscure; often it is arcane and obscure. But the basic ideas which guide economic theory can be set out straight-forwardly, and it is important to do so for a number of reasons. Foremost among them is that the formation of policies to solve the present crisis must depend in part on theoretical ideas about the workings of the economy. Economic theory is far from being the only basis for policy making but it can be a crucial component of it. And recently, theory and policy seem to have become more and more intertwined: the most important single issue in contemporary theoretical debate concerns the effectiveness of government policy, while policy disputes in Britain have increasingly taken the form of wrangles over theoretical matters. An interesting symptom of the closer relation between theory and policy was the recent double appearance of a major theoretical article, more or less simultaneously, in a specialized academic journal and a House of Commons policy report. if, then, policy discussion is increasingly dependent on economic expertise it is important that we should be able to assess - at least in general terms - the, pronouncements of economists. And for this it is necessary to have some grip on the issues which are really at stake in economic debate. <br />
<br />
However, the relation between economics and policy has another dimension, to do with the general social and political influence of economic ideas. Keynes once remarked, in a much-quoted passage, <br />
<blockquote>
that the ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly under-stood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe </blockquote>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<br />
114 - THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
themselves to be quite exempt from intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.' [1]</blockquote>
<br />
There is an important degree of truth in this passage. Certainly in Britain one particular academic economic idea has been of quite exceptional importance: this is the notion that private-enterprise, free-market economies arc efficient, necessary and socially desirable. Clearly, such an idea is central to monetarist economics and conservative political thought; yet it is also to be found in Keynesian economics and all parts of the British parliamentary political spectrum. But to what extent is the idea correct? It is often assumed — both by supporters of Thatcherite <i>laissez-faire</i>, and supporters of the 'mixed economy' — that there is an adequate theory of the free-market economy which lends support to economic policies focused on a private-enterprise market system. This is not so. Certainly there is a consider-able body of sophisticated theory — which the following chapters will describe — but when it is examined closely, one can sec few grounds for applying its conclusions to the UK. This does not mean that market systems and market economics can or should be rejected in making policy. But the case for <i>some</i> kind of state intervention and state economic activity becomes overwhelming; the crucial questions for the future concern the level of intervention and the forms of intervention. There are many possibilities. And here lies a further reason for examining economic theory: to understand some of its limitations, what it can and cannot show. <br />
<br />
However, there are some real difficulties in understanding the structure of modern economies and the sources of dispute within it. These are mainly to do with the way that the divisions have been presented, in recent years, in terms of a distinction between 'monetarists' and `Keynesians'. What is the basis of this distinction? It often appears as though purely technical questions are at issue, concerning monetary policy, or the nature of inflation; and many economists do in fact assert that the disagreements are essentially practical in character. lint this is seriously misleading. The reason is that many of the 'technical' disputes only make sense in the context of different theoretical starting points, different basic concepts. Looked at in this <br />
<br />
INTRODUCTION • 115 <br />
way, the main disagreements concern not straightforward technical matters, but ideas about the elementary structure and properties of market-type economies. This is where the differences begin, and the divergences which emerge can be very sharp indeed. The following chapters are principally concerned with these basic theoretical points of departure, and their broad implications for policy. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>6 </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>Free Markets and Monetarism </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
Monetarism is simultaneously one of the most widely known and most misunderstood of economic doctrines. It owes its fame to three main sources. The first, within the economics profession itself, is a group of monetarist economists who have successfully forced the profession to sit up and take notice of some analytical problems which it had preferred quietly to ignore. The second is the ebullient personality of Milton Friedman who - through books, articles, his television series and any other medium of publicity springing to hand - has insistently claimed public attention for his 'Chicago' version of monetarism. Finally there is the government of Mrs Thatcher. Hers is not the first administration to attempt a systematic application of monetarist policy principles - various Latin American military dictators beat her to it - but the 'Thatcher experiment' is by far the most important of these attempts. Since these 'sources' are really quite diverse it should not be surprising that they do not always see eye to eye on what 'monetarism' actually means. And this is, perhaps, the first point which should be made about it: it is simply not a unified doctrine, particularly at the level of practical policy.<br />
<br />
As an example of this one might take the Thatcher administration's policies on government spending. A central policy aim of the Conservative government has been to narrow the gap between what the government spends - on health, education and so forth - and its income in the form of taxes: it has done so by cutting expenditure and increasing the tax burden. This 'gap' between expenditure and tax income is the deficit in the government's budget, and it must be filled by borrowing: it is the basis of the Public Sector Borrowing Requirement (PSBR). Mrs Thatcher's economic ministers believe <br />
<br />
<br />
TREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 117 <br />
that a large PSBR generates increases in the money supply, which in turn fuels inflation. Since inflation is a supreme evil, they argue, we must cut the PSBR in order to cut the money supply, which will cut the inflation rate. But other monetarists believe no such thing. For some, monetarism is quite compatible with high levels of government spending and large amounts of government borrowing: they may not like government spending, but that is not because they think that it increases the money supply or is necessarily inflationary. Milton Friedman has taken this view, and recently wrote that he 'could not believe his eyes' when reading the British government's economic strategy document setting out these ideas. To give a further example, at the risk of labouring the point: Sir Geoffrey Howe, the former Chancellor, once appeared on television armed with two graphs, one showing the increase in prices, the other showing the increase in unemployment. Pointing to the fact that they have risen more or less simultaneously, he concluded that rising prices caused rising un-employment: 'Higher inflation means higher unemployment', he announced, concluding that we must beat inflation to cure unemployment. Many monetarist theorists believe nothing of the sort. For them inflation is a purely price phenomenon with no 'real' effects: when the money supply increases, prices rise but output and employment are in theory entirely unaffected or are affected only temporarily.<br />
<br />
Such discrepancies in belief could be multiplied without any trouble at all. What they imply is that monetarist theory should nor be identified with Thatcherite policy. But it is nevertheless important to set out the broad theoretical foundations of monetarism, since they have to do with a theory of markets, and it is of course the beneficial properties of free-market systems which are at the core of Conservative economic policies. But the proponents of free-market economics often seem to understand little of the theory which is supposed to support their views. At the same time, monetarist theory has often been misinterpreted by its critics. Both as a theory and as a principle of policy making it is frequently denounced as a<i> </i>'narrow dogma'<i>,</i> an attempt to bring a single idea - control of the money supply - to bear on economic problems which are so numerous and complex that they require an approach which is much wider in scope. Yet the portentously named 'neoclassical general equilibrium theory' which is the <br />
<br />
118 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
real core of monetarist thinking is by no means narrow. In fact it is an economic theory of wide horizons, of considerable structural complexity, logical rigour and breadth of scope. Even though it is rarely well understood, even within the economics profession, its ideas and its conclusions have a pervasive influence both among economists and among those, such as journalists and politicians, who are prone to refer to what they think economics proves. The most important disputes within modem economics concern the properties and the applicability of this general equilibrium theory, even though it is usually in the background rather than the foreground of much economic analysis. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">MARKETS AND EQUILIBRIUM</span> </h4>
General equilibrium analysis is the study of the interactions of large numbers of economic agents (individuals, firms) who are connected by systems of markets. It secs the economy not as a conglomeration of separate markets, but as a set of interrelated markets, where what happens in one market affects what happens in another. It is concerned with the implications of this market interdependence: if markets, and the prices which are established in them, are interdependent, then the decisions of economic agents must also be interdependent to some greater or lesser extent. The relationships of such an economy are likely to be very complex; general equilibrium theory attempts a rigorous analysis of this complexity. <br />
<br />
The theory starts from the idea that a fundamental problem for any economy is <i>coordination</i>: the desires of consumers for various products must be coordinated with the production system (so that the right amounts of different goods are produced); at the same time, the production system must be coordinated with suppliers of raw materials, machines and labour, so that the right quantities of inputs are available to produce the required goods. In a word, if the economy is to be viable at all, there must be <i>compatibility</i>; the economic needs of consumers must be compatible among themselves, and also with the capacity of the system to produce. Any economy will therefore need some mechanism which will allocate its resources of labour and materials among different types of<br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 119 <br />
production so as to produce a coordinated, compatible configuration of output. <br />
<br />
Since the late nineteenth century, the mainstream of economic theory has seen markets and prices as precisely such a coordinating mechanism. In this approach, prices are normally seen as signals, delivering two kinds of information which should be harmonized in any efficient economy. On the one hand, price signals the intensity with which consumers demand any particular product, while on the other it signals the costs incurred, the resources used up, in producing it. This idea is associated in turn with a theory of how prices are formed in individual markets, a theory which accords with what many people often regard as elementary and reasonable. It runs as follows: as consumers, we do not normally have a need or demand for any <i>specific</i> quantity of a good to be produced. The amount which we will want to buy is variable, depending primarily on the terms on which it is available. In other words, if a product bears a high price we will want to purchase a relatively low quantity of it; if the price falls we will tend to buy more; and at a low price we will buy a relatively high quantity. In the jargon of economics, there is an inverse relation between the price and the quantity purchased. So for every price at which goods might be offered, a different amount will be purchased by consumers; and since there is therefore a whole range of possible price-quantity combinations, there is no way - at this point in the analysis - of saying what the ruling market price might actually be, or what quantity of goods will be sold. <br />
<br />
However, a similar, though converse, line of analysis can also be applied to production. If the costs of producers rise as they increase output then they will require the incentive of a higher price if they are to produce more and still cover their costs. Therefore at low prices they will supply low quantities of goods into a market; as prices rise they will supply more, and at a high price they will supply a relatively high quantity of the good. Producers also have a range of price-quantity combinations, but in the opposite direction to consumers: for them, the higher the price the more they want to trade in the market. Such considerations lead to a theory of what the market price will actually be. The argument is that there will normally be one price - and one price only - at which the quantity demanded by <br />
<br />
120 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
consumers is equal to the quantity which producers will wish to supply. This is called the <i>equilibrium price</i>. It is the only price which will clear the market, meaning that all demand will be satisfied and all goods sold. It is the only price which will leave producers and consumers satisfied with - not wanting to change - the quantity of goods being traded (if the price is above the equilibrium price, then the market will not clear: producers will want to sell more than consumers want to buy; their responses to the price signal will no longer be compatible). <br />
<br />
Now there are some interesting problems even at this early stage in equilibrium analysis, which are often skated over in economic theory. Firstly, these concern whether equilibrium prices exist, even in theory, for particular markets: it is quite easy to envisage markets exactly like those described above for which there is no equilibrium price. Secondly, there is the question of whether these prices are stable. The stability problem concerns what happens when the price is not at the equilibrium level: when the market is in what the jargon calls disequilibrium. Under such circumstances, does the market work to restore the equilibrium price and the equilibrium quantity traded? Again, it is a fairly simple matter to envisage wildly unstable markets, which show no tendency to restore the equilibrium price if they are disturbed.<br />
<br />
But suppose these problems are suspended or ignored or regarded as trivial in practice? What then happens if a market is in dis-equilibrium? If the price is above the equilibrium price then there will be unsold stocks, because producers will supply into the market more goods than consumers want to buy. Producers might then be expected to lower their prices in order to induce consumers to buy these stocks. As they do so, consumers will buy more, but at the lower prices now ruling, producers will want to produce less. In effect, there will be a succession of changes in prices and quantities traded until the equilibrium price is reached or restored. If prices are flexible in this way, then it is straightforward to see how this kind of market might act as a mechanism of coordination. Suppose that consumers, considered as a group, decide for whatever reason that they want more of a product. This means that, at the ruling price, they will want to buy a quantity larger than the existing equilibrium quantity. <br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 121<b> </b><br />
Another way of putting this is to say that they are prepared to pay more for the presently available quantity; they will bid up the price since they are in competition with each other for the going amount. As the price rises producers will supply more, because it will be profitable to do so, until a new equilibrium price-quantity combination emerges which satisfies the increased demand. The market, with its changing price signals, will have smoothly transformed an in-creased desire for the product into increased output Producers can pass on cost information in a similar way. If oil reserves begin to diminish, for example, then costs of producing a barrel of oil will rise; the market price will rise and consumers will buy less. Once again the price system is coordinating, encouraging a level of consumption which will conserve oil, making demand conform to resources.<br />
<br />
This kind of theory of individual markets is known as partial equilibrium analysis. The harmonious picture it presents involves some rather obvious flaws as an image of reality, and some subtle theoretical problems. Before looking at them, and before seeing how a 'general equilibrium' of the whole economy might be conceptualized, it is important to say something about one other individual market: the market for labour. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE LABOUR MARKET</span> </h4>
Sellers of goods (producers) will in the main be sellers in one market and buyers in another; they usually need to purchase labour in order to manufacture output. Now the basic equilibrium 'model' of the economy normally describes the labour market in a similar way to the goods markets outlined above. That is, it suggests that buyers of labour (producers, firms) will buy more labour as its price falls, and less labour as its price rises. Sellers (workers) will supply increasing quantities of labour as the price rises, and vice versa. As with any commodity, there will be an equilibrium price at which the quantity of labour demanded equals that supplied. The 'equilibrium price' thus established will be the going wage rate, while the 'equilibrium quantity' will be the number of workers employed. <br />
<br />
One very important point should be made about the labour market <br />
<br />
122 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
when it is analysed in this way. This is that the equilibrium quantity associated with the equilibrium price can he described as 'full employment'. The reasoning behind this is as follows: at the equilibrium price, everyone who wants a job can get one. Anyone who is unemployed, and wants a job, can get one by offering to work at a lower price, a lower wage rate. By lowering the price of labour employers will be induced to raise the quantity employed. This means that no one can, in general, be unemployed against their will; and this is a working definition of full employment. This, in turn, explains why monetarists are apt to describe unemployment as 'voluntary', and it underlies the remarks of more than one government spokesman on the need for workers to 'price themselves into jobs'.<i> </i>Thus a central interpretation of unemployment in the general equilibrium approach - though it is not, as we shall see, accepted by all general equilibrium theorists - is that unemployment is a temporary phenomenon associated with a quite restricted range of causes: these are invariably to do with wage rates being too high, perhaps because of trade union activity, or a mistaken reluctance to take a pay cut. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GENERAL EQUILIBRIUM: A FIRST PICTURE</span> </h4>
A 'general equilibrium' can be defined as an economic state in which all individual markets are simultaneously in equilibrium. If such an equilibrium is possible, and if the economy tends towards it (both rather big ifs, as it happens), then the general equilibrium state will clearly be of considerable interest and importance. This is because the particular character of such an equilibrium will determine some very important things about the economy. If all markets are in equilibrium then we will know - from the prices and quantities which are established in them - the following: the overall level of income, the number of people employed, the rate of wages, the profit rate, the types of output which are produced and the quantities of each type, and the relative prices of all goods and services. All of these things interlock. The wage rate will determine the quantity of people employed; the quantity of people employed, in conjunction with the available capital stock, will determine the quantity of output; the quantity of output will determine the total level of income, because <br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 123 <br />
the value of output will be equal to the value of the incomes (profits, wages) earned in producing it. The way in which people spend their income will determine a structure of demand, which will in turn affect the relative prices of goods. The intensities of demand for the various goods will determine which goods it is profitable to produce, and hence the composition of output. All of these relationships and quantities will moreover be fixed simultaneously. <br />
<br />
All of this depends, it should be emphasized, on the operation of the separate and apparently unconnected markets which make up the economy. Since the time of Adam Smith (a particular hero to monetarists like Milton Friedman), but more particularly since the late nineteenth century, it has been a central theme of main-stream Western economics that market economies do work in this kind of way. It is argued that if all markets operate freely, then the structure of the economy and the amount it produces will be fully determined by the choices made by individuals. In choosing which products to buy, and how much of them to buy, in deciding where we will work and for how long, we are in effect engaged in the formation of a collective decision concerning the making and working of the economy. And in attempting to get the best value for money, in attempting to maximize our incomes, in socking out the most profitable opportunities for business, we are certainly helping ourselves as individuals, but we are also doing something more. We are improving the efficiency of the economy, raising its output, increasing the economic welfare of all. Moreover, this co-operation and coordination can extend world-wide, as long as there are markets freely operating internationally as well as within our own country. <br />
<br />
In many respects this vision of the economy is a noble one. It places the responsibilities for economic decision-making squarely on individuals. It gives short shrift to political elites or economic vested interests who might want to usurp crucial economic decisions, either from private greed or from the belief that they know, better than the rest of us, what is good for us. This <i>'free market'</i> theory is, in one sense, thoroughly libertarian; its impact on the economics profession in the West would be difficult to exaggerate. <br />
<br />
124 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE ECONOMICS OF 'WELFARE'</span> </h4>
It seems a natural extension of the approach outlined above to suggest that the outcomes which emerge from freely operating market systems are beneficial; in fact, could not be bettered. Once again, such views can be traced back to Adam Smith. But in modern 'neoclassical' economics such positive assessments of the market system are not regarded as just matters of opinion. There is a major branch of economics, 'welfare economics', which studies the effects of economic processes on the welfare of individuals and groups. It takes a highly formal, abstract and mathematical approach to the topic and for that reason it would be impossible accurately to describe its procedures here. But it is important to set out one of its most famous results, which has had a deep influence on the thinking of many economists. This result is frequently used as an argument in support of the free-market economics analysed by general equilibrium theory. Welfare economics shows (that is to say, <i>proves</i> in the sense of a logical or mathematical proof) that a fully free-market economy produces, out of all the economic outcomes which could be produced, the best for the welfare of its people (given the income distribution, the available technology and people's preferences for goods). This best-possible outcome is known in the jargon as a 'Pareto optimum', and although a free-market economy is not the only way to achieve it (in abstract theory Soviet-type centrally planned economics could do just as well) it is the method which, for obvious reasons, has fascinated Western economists. The relation between welfare economics and general equilibrium theory is simple. It turns out that a competitive economy in general equilibrium is also a Parato optimum. This result is the scientific basis for claims, which are frequently heard but rarely justified, that the free-market capitalist economy is the most efficient, welfare maximizing economy possible. <br />
<br />
However, it is always prudent to be a little suspicious of those who start talking of the best of all possible worlds. And since it is not for nothing that the monetarist version of general equilibrium theory has been described recently by a distinguished critic as 'the economics of Dr Pangloss', it will be useful to look in more detail at the theoretical difficulties which lurk in the background of Milton Friedman's rather <br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 125 <br />
euphoric picture of competitive capitalism. What kinds of limitations are there in the theoretical methods which general equilibrium theory uses to depict the economy? How far do these limitations vitiate it as a theory of the real-world economy? Are the conclusions based on it sound? <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">GENERAL EQUILIBRIUM: THEORY AND METHODS</span> </h4>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
We can start by reconsidering the idea of 'general equilibrium' itself. It was defined as a simultaneous equilibrium, simultaneous balancing of supply and demand, in all markets of the economy. What is involved in this? <br />
<br />
In the discussion of partial equilibrium (equilibrium in one market) earlier in this chapter it was suggested that the quantities demanded and supplied for any commodity depended on its price. In fact I should have said, depended <i>mainly</i> on its price: there are some further factors to consider. For example, the prices of other goods will be an important matter. The quantity of butter demanded might depend partly on the price of margarine (because they are 'substitutes': if the price of margarine falls then people might just buy more margarine and less butter) and partly on the price of bread (they are called complements: if the price of bread rises people might eat less bread and hence less butter). The quantity of butter demanded also depends on people's incomes, which in turn depend on the prices of other commodities. If the price of carpets falls, then the incomes of those who manufacture them are likely also to fall, and they may demand less butter in consequence as they 'economize'. It can easily he seen, through this kind of argument, that the equilibrium quantity of butter demanded will depend on its own price and the prices of a great many other, perhaps <i>all</i> other, commodities. This means that the market equilibria of most or all goods are completely interdependent: we cannot describe what is happening in one goods market without taking into account what is happening in all. This is why it is necessary to study equilibria as both <i>general</i> and <i>simultaneous </i>in the market economy. There are a number of reasons why the study of 'general equilibrium' is important. Firstly, there is the question of whether a market <br />
<br /></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> 126 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS </span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">economy is actually viable. Clearly, market systems are only worth supporting and maintaining if they actually work, in particular as mechanisms of coordination. But in theory they only work in so far as general equilibrium is possible: if equilibrium in the butter market is not compatible with equilibrium in the carpet market, then something has to give. One way or another people's demands for goods will not be effectively coordinated with the production system (because dis-equilibrium in the carpet market means that there will be either overproduction or unsatisfied demand). Of course, if just one market is out of equilibrium, then there is no great problem. But what if equilibrium in half the markets of the economy means dis-equilibrium in the other half? Or if, because of the interdependence of all markets, no equilibrium is possible in any market? The result will he chaos. Markets will not be solving the basic economic problem of what should be produced, in what quantities, etc. Market economies tend to look rather chaotic and unstructured; if general equilibrium is possible in theory, then there is at least the possibility of an underlying order. <br />
<br />
Secondly, there are questions about the properties of a general equilibrium. Does it generate full employment? Does it encourage economic efficiency? Finally there are questions about 'movement' in the economy. Can we explain shifts and changes and modifications in the economy in terms of movement towards general equilibrium? Does it give us some insight into the dynamic forces which are in play in the economy? These kinds of concerns make the existence of general equilibrium an important theoretical problem. <br />
<br />
Now for the sixty-four-thousand dollar questions. Seeing that any one market equilibrium depends on most or all other markets, it is likely to be a very complex matter. In view of this complexity, is it at all possible that a general equilibrium of all markets might exist? If such a general equilibrium position is attainable for the whole economy, is there only one equilibrium state, or two, or three, or what? Is such an equilibrium stable? If general equilibrium is reached, does the economy stay in it, or return to equilibrium if some unforeseen shock to the system (such as a basic rise in the price of oil) occurs? These questions turn out to be far from easy to answer. <br />
<br />
But the investigation of such problems has been a core preoccupation</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 127 </span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">of Western economists in the modern period. The most influential line of attack on them has derived from the pioneering work of the nineteenth-century French-Swiss economist Leon Walras (1834-1910), usually regarded as the first to pose and solve the big conceptual problems of general equilibrium adequately. His work is frequently praised in rather reverential terms; as one major authority, Joseph Schumpeter, has put it </span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">his system of economic equilibrium, uniting, as it does, the quality of <i>'revolutionary'</i> creativeness and the quality of classic synthesis, is the only work by an economist that will stand comparison with the achievements of theoretical physics.[1] </span></blockquote>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">The Walrasian method, set out in his <i>Elements d'ivonomie politique pure</i> (1874) runs broadly as follows: the specific price-quantity combinations which describe consumer demand in any one market can be represented by mathematical means, with an equation. The quantity demanded will be related to the price of the good, and all other relevant prices. In mathematical terms, the quantity demanded will be an inverse function of the good's price, and functionally related to other prices. Similarly with the quantity supplied: this will also be some multiple of prices, a direct function of the price of the good itself, and functionally related to other prices. Since we know that, in equilibrium, the quantity supplied will equal the quantity demanded, we can bring these two equations together to form a small simultaneous equation system. If the equations can be solved, then it means that an equilibrium exists; the specific values of the variables, when the equations are solved, will give the actual price and quantity. </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;">However, the equations describing any one market are related to the equations describing most or all of the other markets. So in fact the simultaneous equation system must be very large. The whole thing rapidly becomes very complex, because a very wide range of descriptive equations is in fact needed. The system requires equations specifying the relationships between the welfare of consumers and the number and composition of the goods they consume; it needs equations describing the production system, in particular the relation between output and the quantities of labour and capital input; it needs supply and demand equations derived from or related to these </span></div>
<span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: black;"><br />
128 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
types of equation. Appropriate equations are needed in description of every consumer, every product, every process, every market in the economy. And this very large set of equations, with an enormous number of unknown variables, must solve simultaneously if this mathematical picture of general equilibrium is to be viable. It may seem an abstract, perhaps rather far-fetched approach, and in some ways it is. But it is worth emphasizing that it is simply a precise statement of what we must be able to prove, if more general statements (to the effect that market economies are efficient, welfare maximizing and so on) are to hold water. Another way of putting it is to say that if this mathematical picture of the economy does not work, then there is no completely sound theoretical basis for economic policies aimed — as Mrs Thatcher's are — at extending the free-market, private-enterprise economy. So does the equation system solve? <br />
<br />
It turns out to be possible. It has been shown that the equation system is solvable, that in theory a state of general equilibrium in all markets can exist, that the equilibrium is unique (there is only one possible equilibrium to which the economy will tend), and that it is stable. This was a considerable achievement. Admiration for it, however, should be qualified, for there were some marked peculiarities in the way the results were achieved. <br />
<br />
These are not necessarily particularly important in theoretical terms; but they are absolutely crucial when conclusions from Walras's theory are applied in practice. The problems in Walras's approach relate, firstly, to the simplifications he had to adopt about the nature of the economy, and secondly, to the way in which equilibrium was actually achieved. <br />
<br />
First, the simplifications. An economy, however small, is clearly a complex thing. Any mathematical 'model' of it will therefore need to simplify many features of it; these simplifications are known in economics as 'initial assumptions'. They are the restrictions which must be put on the complexity of the economy in order to make the mathematics of the model of it workable. The restrictive assumptions of Walrasian General Equilibrium theory include the following: <br />
<br />
1. There is full and free competition (known as 'perfect competition') in the economy. If all prices are established competitively, then no buyer or seller is in a position to fix prices — they are 'price takers', <br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 129 <br />
they must take the prices established in the market. This means that there must be no monopolies (markets with only one seller) or oligopolies (markets dominated by a few large producers), since such firms can set their own prices. <br />
<br />
2. There is no historical time: the approach is static, the problem being set up as one concerning economic organization at a particular moment in time, not as one of an economy moving through time. <br />
<br />
3. Everyone has 'perfect knowledge'; everyone can get, immediately and costlessly, all the information — and specifically price information — which they need about the economy. There is no uncertainty about the future. <br />
<br />
4. There are no 'externalities' in the economy. These are costs (such as pollution) or benefits (such as the acquisition of skills) which are not included in private transactions. There are also no 'public goods' (broadly speaking these are goods or services for which no market price can be easily or realistically charged: defence, street-lights, radio or television programmes). <br />
<br />
5. Products in any particular market are 'homogeneous', meaning that they are exactly the same in terms of qualities — the only differences between them can be their prices. There is no 'product differentiation'. <br />
<br />
6. There are no 'economies of scale'. This means that there are no production processes where efficiency can be improved by increasing the size of the operation (i.e. where doubling the inputs might lead to more than doubled output). This is not a full list of the necessary assumptions; there are also usually some quite stringent assumptions made about the nature of production processes. Subsequent research has shown that some of them can be removed or qualified without affecting the existence of general equilibrium. But there is one which remains essential if it is to be claimed that the market system maximizes social and individual welfare, and that is the first. There must he perfect competition. In particular this means that prices must be flexible: if there is any change in consumers' demand, or conditions of supply, then prices must shift in response. <br />
<br />
'Assumptions' like these clearly take us a long way from the real world economy, which in the case of Britain is characterized by </span></span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<br />
130 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
imperfect competition (monopolies like telecommunications, oligopolies like cars, oil, chemicals, bread); considerable uncertainty about the future; many externalities; some public goods; strongly differentiated products; industries with marked economics of scale; and some <i>very</i> inflexible prices. But these are only the most obvious difficulties in applying the 'general equilibrium' approach to the real economy. Some more subtle, but ultimately more devastating, difficulties emerge when the question is asked, how is equilibrium attained, and how quickly is it reached? This question is clearly of considerable interest if general equilibrium theory is to be used to argue the merits of free markets in general and Mrs Thatcher in particular. Yet it is precisely in this area — how equilibrium is reached — that intractable problems arise. <br />
<br />
It is worth considering this matter in some detail; but why is it so important? Suppose, for instance, that the economy is in dis-equilibrium. This means that markets are not clearing — quantities supplied are not equal to quantities demanded. Consequently there may be unsold stocks combined with shortages, less than capacity output, unemployment and so on. It is obviously vied to know whether there are forces which will cause equilibrium to be attained. The speed of adjustment to equilibrium is also important: if it takes twenty years for full equilibrium to be attained after an oil price rise, then it might not be advisable to rely on free market forces. Walras solved neither of these problems in a realistically acceptable way. <br />
<br />
On the first problem — how is equilibrium attained? — he employed a method which might politely be described as 'mythical'. The difficulty is this: establishing general equilibrium means establishing a set of prices which will enable all markets to clear. This implies that prices must actually be set or changed. But it has already been assumed (in the first assumption noted on p.128) that all economic agents are price <i>takers</i>, not price makers: nobody sets prices, they have to take what the market offers. By what agency then, are prices established or changed? In order to get round this impasse, Walras assumed the existence of a mythical 'auctioneer', overseeing the economy in a rather god-like way. The auctioneer would take 'advance bids', as it were, for all the goods in the economy. Where demand exceeded supply he would raise prices, and vice versa; then a new set of bids would be taken. The auctioneer would keep on adjusting potential <br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 131 <br />
prices until the bids revealed a set of prices which would equate supply and demand in all markets. These prices would then be declared the ruling prices, and all trades would take place. The process is one of successively getting nearer to the equilibrium prices; Walras called it <i>'tâtonnemette'</i><b> </b>(normally translated rather inelegantly as 'groping'). This approach also solves — if that is the word — the problem of how fast equilibrium is attained. Since the whole thing is set up in advance by the auctioneer, equilibrium occurs <i>instantaneously.</i> (Time therefore does not enter Walras's theoretical world; how it might be brought into this kind of analysis is a complex matter, susceptible to a range of interpretations.) Finally, general equilibrium occurs simultaneously in response to the final bids; so there can be no shortage of demand in the economy — demand is simply not a problem. <br />
<br />
One might sum up the story so far by saying that Walras achieved a great deal, but at a great cost: that of realism, of applicability to the concrete world. But his work should not idly be rejected on that account, however. No one can solve all theoretical problems at once, and very drastic simplifications may be in order to help work out intractable problems. There is nothing new, in scientific work, in this kind of thing, at least as a starting point. On the other hand it must be said that general equilibrium theorists have not made notable progress on some of the problems noted above in the seventy or so years since the death of Walras. No really convincing theory has emerged on how general equilibrium is attained in a fully competitive economy. The theory remains mired in its central contradiction: if the market economy is to be the best of all possible worlds, then we must all be price-takers; but attaining equilibrium requires price makers. You can't have it both ways. This problem is not a trivial one: it means that if some measure of realism is introduced into the analysis, then the conclusion that the free-market economy maximizes efficiency and welfare cannot be sustained. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">MONETARISM AND GENERAL EQUILIBRIUM THEORY</span> </h4>
In the light of the story presented above, monetarism can be seen in terms of two distinct ideas. The first and most important has nothing <br />
<br />
<br />
132 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
to do with money. It is simply that monetarists treat the general equilibrium model as the appropriate starting point for discussion and analysis of economies like Britain. Certainly the model is a simplification - but it is an accurate and realistic one. Consequently they regard conclusions drawn from the theory as applicable and relevant to real-world economies in general, and Britain in particular (despite the fact that few would claim that the theory gives a full and complete description of the economy). Monetarists tend to be prepared to use ideas drawn from general equilibrium theory to answer questions about the actual operation of real economics. To take an example: monetarists believe that there is a 'natural rate' of unemployment, a rate which cannot permanently be reduced by expansionary government policies. What determines this rate? Milton Friedman's answer is as follows: the natural rate <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
is the level (of unemployment) which would be ground out <i>by the Walrasian system of general equilibrium equations,</i> provided that there is embedded in them the actual structural characteristics of the labour and commodity markets.[2] (My italics.) </blockquote>
Using the general equilibrium system in this way seems to lead more or less directly to a belief in the self-regulating properties of the market economy. The model demonstrates desirable properties if markets are free. Therefore if the economy is left to its own devices it will not only reach full output and full employment, it will also - because of competition - produce goods and use labour in the most efficient way. Monetarism involves one further central idea, which concerns the money supply. More precisely, it concerns the role of money in general equilibrium type models. The idea is that money is simply a means of accounting, something which expresses the prices of goods relative to each other, and which facilitates transactions. This leads to a 'quantity theory of money' (actually a theory of the price level), in which the general level of prices is determined by the size of the money stock. As an influential economic idea this has a long history, stretching back into the eighteenth century if not beyond. In essence it is very simple: if commodity A costs £10 and commodity B costs £5, then doubling the money supply will cost £20 and B to<b> </b><br />
<br />
FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM • 133 <br />
cost £10. This is inflation, a change in the general level of prices. It changes only 'nominal' prices, not the real relationships between the commodities (A still costs twice as much as B). Modern monetarism puts this idea to use in opposition to an idea associated with Keynes: when there is unemployment, the government can increase the money supply in such a way as to increase overall demand in the economy. This will lead to an increase in output (as producers satisfy the increased demand) and in employment. The monetarist argument is that this is an illusion: we know from the quantity theory that increasing the money supply can ultimately only lead to an increase in prices. An increase in the money supply can therefore have no 'real' effects: it changes the general level of prices, though not their relation to one another. It cannot alter the amount of goods being produced, or the number of people employed (in which case, of course, it is difficult to see why inflation is such a significant economic problem). <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION </span></h4>
What the above discussion has tried to indicate is that monetarism consists of a set of technical propositions - mainly concerning the price level and the money supply - grafted on to a more general theory of the market economy. It is perfectly possible to reject the former while accepting the latter. And many economists, politicians, journalists and so on do precisely that, though they rarely have any serious understanding of the scientific limitations of free-market economics. Arguably the single most influential economic idea in British society is the notion that free markets work: that they generate efficiency, 'consumer sovereignty', and freedom of choice. Yet the rigorous scientific theory of market systems - Walrasian general equilibrium theory and its derivatives - shows if anything that such notions are true only under very restrictive conditions. In fact those conditions are not met and cannot be met in any real economy. Although this does not mean either that market systems do not work, or that they are inferior to available alternatives, it does imply that we should hesitate before accepting the arguments of free-market apologists, especially concerning economic policy. The next chapter will <br />
<br />
136 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
exert great influence - his collected articles could perhaps stand as a systematic statement of the free-market position. This is not the place for a discussion of the role of financial journalism in forming the climate of opinion in Britain. But it could be suggested that it is a significant role; and not the least significant thing about it is the utterly uncritical character of its acceptance of free-market positions (even where it has swung away, under the impact of events, from support for hard-line monetarism). For that reason it is important to set out the theoretical basis of support for free-market policy positions, since the solution to Britain's problems must involve a challenge to them. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE 'NEW CLASSICAL MACROECONOMICS' </span></h4>
Within the economics profession, monetarism is normally associated with a wider body of ideas - also based on general equilibrium concepts - usually known as the <i>'new classical macroeconomics'</i>. It is distinguished by a thorough-going opposition to government policy interventions in the economy, claiming to prove the case for laissez-faire, for leaving the economy to its own devices. Hence the reference to <i>'classical'</i> economics - in the tradition of such writers as Adam Smith and David Ricardo - which is supposed to be essentially laissez-faire economics, and also the foundation of laissez-faire economic policy in the nineteenth century. What is the basis of this new argument against policy intervention? At one level, matters are very simple. Suppose that one takes the free-market, general equilibrium model of the economy seriously, either as a description of the real economy or as an appropriate starting point. That model, as many have assumed and as Walras proved (albeit rather oddly), works beautifully in economic terms without a government. It seems to follow directly that government intervention should be avoided or minimized or restricted to enforcing contracts. That kind of argument is hardly convincing when one remembers the very restrictive assumptions necessary to make the theory work, but none the less it is an important component of monetarist and free-market thinking. They do believe in the self-regulating properties of market economics. The advantages of a <br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 137<br />
privatized, competitive economy have been frequently cited by Conservative spokesmen as the rationale behind the Thatcher government's attempts to sell off publicly-owned enterprises, to cut government expenditure and so on. But the <i>'new classical macroeconomics'</i> goes further than this rather general position; the theory claims also that government policy interventions in the economy are either completely ineffective, or positively harmful. This section examines the two most influential arguments advanced in support of such claims: the <i>'crowding out'</i> theory, and the <i>'rational expectations hypothesis'</i>. The first of these has probably been the more important in terms of practical policy making, while the second has obsessed academic economists. There are, in this kind of analysis, essentially two kinds of government activity in the economy. They are fiscal policy and monetary policy. Fiscal policy concerns the economics of the government budget, that is, its tax and expenditure decisions. When the government decides to spend a certain amount, say on defence or on hospitals, it is affecting two things initially: the level of its control over the economic resources of society, and the level of total spending in the economy. When it makes tax decisions it is affecting the amount of income left to the population after tax, and thereby it affects the level of people's consumption expenditure; once again, this affects the level of total spending in the economy. The problem is this: suppose the government runs a deficit in its budget; suppose it spends more than it earns. This obviously increases total expenditure. But does it increase total income and output (and, in consequence, total employment)? The other main policy instrument, monetary policy, concerns the size of the money stock and the level of interest rates (if the government increases the money supply then interest rates tend to go down, and vice versa). Suppose the government increases the money supply. The question is, does the resulting increase in demand generate increases in real output and employment, or not? The arguments mainly concern fiscal policy, though they also have a monetary aspect, since the way in which government expenditure is financed can have effects on the money supply. The 'crowding out' thesis has a number of variations, of which two are particularly important. The first concerns the implications of increasing govern-<br />
<br />
138 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
merit control of real economic resources. The second concerns the effects of the ways in which government expenditure is financed. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">"CROWDING OUT"</span></h4>
The first of the 'crowding out' arguments runs as follows. Suppose that the government increases its expenditure on health or defence, financing the increased expenditure with increased taxes. This will reduce the share of national income available to the private sector, which is made up of employers and employees. One or both of these groups will therefore have to accept a reduction in their real income. If workers bear the brunt of the reduction then there are no adverse effects for the economy as a whole (in terms of output, employment, exports and so on). But if they do not accept the wage reductions implied by increased taxation, if they insist on higher money wages to compensate for the increased tax burden, then one of two things will happen. <i>Either</i>, exports will be reduced, as a result of increased costs. This will lead to a balance of payments crisis of one form or another, and the government will have to contract economic activity in order to reduce imports. The end results are likely to be unemployment, a decline in national income, and inflation. <i>Or</i>, on the other hand, increased wages could mean reduced profits (it is argued by 'classicals' and Marxists that this occurred on a significant scale in Britain in the post-war period to 1974). If the profits of firms decrease, then they will be reluctant to invest in new plant and equipment. Lowered rates of investment mean lower output and national income, and fewer jobs. Once again, unemployment and recession are in store. So, either way, increased levels of government intervention are positively harmful. <br />
<br />
The second part of the 'crowding out' thesis concentrates on finance. Suppose that the government increases its expenditure but does not increase taxation. It must then finance its expenditure, which it an do in two ways. Firstly, it could increase the money supply, in effect printing money. If one accepts the 'quantity theory of money' this must be purely inflationary with no permanent real effects. Secondly, it can sell bonds to the public: at the moment it sells many billions of pounds worth of various kinds of bonds per year. If this <br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 139 <br />
happens, then people - mostly through insurance companies, pension funds, etc. - will spend money on bonds that might otherwise have been spent in the private economy. In other words, if the government spends £10 billion more than it 'earns', financed by bond sales, then £10 billion of private expenditure is 'crowded out' of existence. The overall effect on demand must be zero. However, there is a further aspect of this to be considered; the government must pay interest on the bonds that it sells. If it wishes to sell more bonds in order to spend more, then it must raise the rate of interest. This of course raises the cost of borrowing for firms (and everyone else) and lowers the amount of investment they are prepared to undertake. Once again, the effect is to depress the level of activity in the economy. The conclusion, in consequence, is that government activity is either use-less or positively harmful.<br />
<br />
The crowding out thesis raises some important problems which have been neglected by those who take the view that government economic activity is automatically beneficial, and that government expenditure can be raised almost without limit. But it is also true that important criticisms can he directed against 'crowding out' ideas. The 'real crowding out' variant assumes, for example, that private economic activity is the only 'productive' activity in the economy, on no very clear grounds; moreover it is not obvious that the poor investment and growth record of the UK economy is due to crowding out and low profits. It could be that profitability and investment are affected more by a whole history of poor investment and technology decisions, than by relatively recent government actions. The issues here remain unresolved; all that can he said is that they are important. As for 'financial crowding out', it can perhaps simply be said that there is little evidence that investment is significantly affected by interest rate changes in the UK (although the American picture appears to be different). <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE 'RATIONAL EXPECTATIONS HYPOTHESIS'</span> </h4>
Although 'crowding out' theories are of considerable interest,, they have taken second place - as a theoretical approach - in recent years to attacks on government intervention deriving from the so-called <br />
<br />
140 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
`rational expectations hypothesis' (which will hereafter be called `R E H'). <br />
<br />
Non-monetarists often stem slightly embarrassed in talking about the rational expectations approach. As Frank Blackaby, of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, recently put it: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
When I try to explain this hypothesis to non-economists they tend to stare at me with wild surmise, and accuse me of joking when I say that serious economists have serious conferences devoted to the examination of this proposition. [1] </blockquote>
The reason for his diffidence is that the REH is built on what at first sight appears to be an absurd idea: this is that all individuals, all economic agents, in the economy act as if they are in possession of a full-scale theoretical model of the economy, which they use in taking decisions and plotting their economic activities. The model is a correct one, and can be used to assess the likely results of government policy actions; agents therefore act in the light of such assessments (which are necessarily correct). The model which they possess just happens to he the monetarist version of the general equilibrium approach. Stated as baldly as this, it must inevitably seem ridiculous. But this is to neglect the way the argument runs; some important points are made along the way. REH starts with the idea that people's expectations of the future are a central aspect of the choices which they make today. Suppose a firm is considering borrowing money to finance a new plant, and the rate of interest is 18 per cent. Then the expectation of the firm's planners about the rate of inflation, or future interest rates, will he of great importance in its decision. If they expect a general rate of inflation of say 12 per cent over the next year, then they will expect their money earnings to be higher than they are today. They will therefore be more willing to borrow than if they expect a rate of inflation of zero. The REH suggests that economic decision-makers - individuals or firms - will do two things in forming their expectations: <br />
1. They will use all available information which is relevant to their decision, and they will process and evaluate the information in an intelligent and rational manner. <br />
2. They will reflect on their past performance in expectation-<br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 141 <br />
forming, and in particular on their errors. They will not keep on making the same old mistakes. This means that they will not make systematic errors in their expectations of the future. (REH is not particularly clear about how expectations are formed and the correct model developed. But it seems to be that it is the revision of past mistakes, the elimination of errors, which leads to a sort of evolutionary adaptation towards the correct monetarist view of the world.) <br />
<br />
So, expectations of future developments are central to current economic decisions. Since people consider all pertinent developments in making those decisions, it follows that they will take the effects of government policy into account. This means that the actual effects of any government policy adopted today will be determined in large part by the expectations which people form concerning those effects. This is a simple point, and it is true that it has been neglected in many forecasting models of the economy. How does REH put this idea to use? <br />
<br />
REH asserts that, if the government adopts an expansionary fiscal or monetary policy (that is, if it tries to expand economic activity by spending more or increasing the money supply) then people will expect inflation. They will be correct in this, having learnt the truth of the monetarist position through bitter experience. These 'inflationary expectations' will ensure that inflation does occur, because prices will be adjusted to accord with expected inflation. More importantly, people will not think that the inflationary price rises represent real increases in demand in the economy, and hence an opportunity for growth. This is a very important step in the argument: people will not be deceived; they will not mistake inflation fur a higher level of demand. <br />
<br />
But how can this lead to the proposition that the government cannot increase the level of output and employment? litre it is necessary to return to the so-called 'natural rate of unemployment'. In discussing the general equilibrium model of the economy, it was suggested that there was an equilibrium price-quantity relationship in the labour market, this being defined by 'classicals' as `full employment'. The corresponding unemployment defines the 'natural rate of unemployment'. Once the equilibrium price and quantity are reached, then unemployment can be reduced only in two ways. Either, <br />
<br />
142 THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
workers can accept a lower wage (encouraging employers to use more labour), or employers can offer a higher wage (encouraging workers to supply more labour). Consider the second of these cases. Under what circumstances will employers offer a higher wage? One way would be if they thought they were facing increased demand, and consequently higher prices, for their products. What happens if the government tries to generate such an increase in demand?<br />
<br />
The 'classical' argument is that unemployment could be reduced below its 'natural rate' by inflationary government action, in the following way. People could mistake the general price rise for a real increase in demand. Firms will think they are facing an increase in demand for their particular product; workers will think that any in-crease in wage rates is an increase in the real wage. But both are mistaken. If the inflation consists of all prices rising simultaneously, then all prices remain the same in relation to each other. However, while the mistake persists, employers will demand more labour in order to meet what they think is an increased demand for output, and workers will supply more labour in response to what they think is an increase in the wage rate. Once people realize their mistake, once they see that it is inflation which is occurring - and not a real increase in demand and wages - then output and employment will fall back to their original level (hut at a higher level of 'nominal' prices). One of the explanations of why all this occurs is that, in the words of a leading monetarist, 'suppliers receive information about the prices of their own goods faster than they receive information about the aggregate price level'. But the upshot is that unemployment can only be reduced - by the government or anybody else - when people make mistakes about the rate of inflation: when, in the jargon, they make expectational errors about the future course of inflation. <br />
<br />
<i>But </i>. . . the rational expectations hypothesis tells us that people do not make expectational errors <i>systematically</i>. They correct their mistakes, and learn to make correct appreciations of the inflational effects of government policy actions. The conclusion is obvious and important. If the government can only affect the level of output and employment through errors about the inflation rate (which is what the 'natural rate' theory says); and if people do not make systematic errors about inflation (which is what REH tells us); then it follows <br />
<br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 143 <br />
that the government cannot systematically affect the level of output and the level of employment. Government policy, in particular employment policy, is thus proved ineffective. This is the central theoretical argument of the 'new classical macroeconomics' against government policy intervention, and hence for a policy of <i>laissez-faire</i>. (Of course, the same argument cuts both ways: if employment cannot be above the full employment level, it cannot be below it either. This makes the existence of long-term recession rather difficult to explain.) As a basis for discussing economic policy, theories such as these seem almost entirely inadequate, for reasons which will be discussed in the next section. However, the objections should be neither to the idea that economic agents behave rationally, nor to the idea that the expectations which they hold are of great importance. On the contrary, it is correct and important to emphasize that expectations of what the future might hold can be of great economic significance currently. It is ironic, however, that the economist who first really stressed this was none other than J. M. Keynes. The theme of expectations and uncertainty about the future runs right through his major work, though it has been neglected by many of his followers. Of course, the thrust of the 'new classical' approach is to introduce the concept of expectations and to remove uncertainty, but they are nevertheless right to emphasize that expectations about the future include expectations about the effects of current policy. This is particularly important when one turns from the theoretical world of general equilibrium to the real economic environment in which we live. This environment is characterized by concentrated economic power: large firms control the vast majority of output, large banks control the financial system, large unions dominate the labour market. A relatively small number of decision makers effectively control a very large number of important economic decisions, in the course of which they can and do weigh up the likely effects of government policy, and adapt their actions accordingly. The Ford car company, for example, is said to employ economists whose sole task is to predict exchange-rate changes (they are supposed to he very good at it). The decisions taken by such firms, on the basis of their expectations, have effects. In a sense, however, economic policy has always concerned itself with <br />
<br />
144 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
such matters, for a perennial theme in policy making is the need to sustain 'confidence'. When people use this word they are invariably referring to the need to induce a certain set of expectations (usually profits) in large corporate managements. To speak of expectations in this sense is meaningful and important; to use the existence of expectations to prove the necessary ineffectiveness of policy is quite another matter. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE 'NEW CLASSICAL MACROECONOMICS' AND ECONOMIC POLICY: SOME PROBLEMS</span></h4>
The 'new classical macroeconomics' has been increasingly influential in recent years, both within the economics profession (though there remain many sceptics) and among those who make or comment on policy. This writer is firmly among the sceptics, though certainly the 'new classical' system has performed one signal service. It has set out, in a thorough way, the theoretical basis of 'free-market' policy making. This section will be doing something that the apologists of the free market rarely do, namely taking a look at the underside of the theory, at its weaknesses. In the light of these weaknesses it seems difficult to see rational justification for any form of <i>laissez-faire</i> economic policy. The first major problem for the 'new classical' system lies in the restricted nature of the theoretical model on which it is based. That model only works on the basis of some extreme simplifications, such as that all prices are not only flexible but adjust more or less instantaneously to shifts in supply and demand. However in outlining these stringent 'assumptions' (in Chapter 6, pp.128-9) the dimensions of this problem have, if anything, been understated. For example, the full general equilibrium model requires a very large number of 'futures' markets (markets in which trades are undertaken today for completion in the future) if it is really to work. But the assumptions (perfect competition, perfect knowledge, price flexibility, etc.) are sufficient to clarify a major difficulty for the 'free-market' model. The difficulty is this: if any of these assumptions do not hold in general, then a general equilibrium may exist, but it will not be one in which full employment is achieved, or in which efficiency is possible,<br />
<br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 145 <br />
or in which the social outcomes can be claimed to be the 'best possible'. In fact, there is an interesting result in 'welfare economics' known as the 'second-best theorem'. It shows that if any one of these conditions is violated (i.e. if there is 'imperfect competition' in only <i>one</i> market) then in order to achieve the 'next best' result to the 'best of all possible worlds' optimum, intervention is required throughout the economy, quite possibly in <i>all </i>markets. In other word; it is no use having a bit of competition, a bit of the free-market economy, or a bit of <i>laissez-faire</i>. It is a case of everything or nothing: if the initial assumptions do not hold in <i>their entirety</i>, then <i>none</i> of the beneficial outcomes which are beloved of Conservative economists and their journalistic hangers-on necessarily follow.<br />
<br />
Now clearly no serious person could claim that thew assumptions or conditions hold in the UK economy, or any other for that matter. The monetarist response to this tends to be to acknowledge that the economy does not work like the 'model', but then to suggest that this is only because we tolerate 'imperfections' (such as monopolies or trade unions). Therefore we should rid ourselves of rigidities and imperfections in markets - which are the only true cause of un-employment, recession and so on - and the economy would work as the model suggests. However, this ignores the fact that many of the assumptions not only do not hold, but could not possibly hold. Some of the assumptions are straightforwardly impossible: no conceivable economic organization could deliver perfect knowledge, absence of uncertainty or instantaneous price adjustment. Others are unrealistic in a different sense. Such things as imperfect competition (i.e. oligopolistic or monopolistic industries), or economies of scale, or 'externalities', are not 'imperfections'; they are precisely the product of the natural development of the economy. They are not just the basis of the way our economy functions, they are the outcome of it, and it is pointless to fulminate against them. Other 'imperfections', such as taxes, or the way in which public goods - like television or defence - are provided, are simply part and parcel of the institutional structure ofour society; this is a matter which is systematically avoided by general equilibrium theory, which explicitly ignores the institutional organization of economies. (This may be theoretically justifiable in my opinion, so long as the results are not used in pronouncements about policy.)<br />
<br />
146 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<br />
However, it is not simply in its assumptions or axioms that the free-market model is impoverished in policy terms. It is also restricted in the very nature of the theoretical system which emerges. The crucial economic policy debates in recent years have concerned firstly, monetary policy, and secondly, government economic activity. How far does the general equilibrium approach and its 'new classical variant, illuminate matters here? Recall that, in the Walrasian system, equilibrium is achieved simultaneously and instantaneously via the 'auctioneer'; he sets up all the trades in the economy, which occur all at once. Money is not necessary to these trades. Certainly it is easy enough to introduce money into the analysis: you simply call one commodity — any commodity —'money', and reckon the prices of all goods in terms of it. But the Walrasian economy is essentially a 'barter economy — it would work adequately without money and a financial system. Much the same can be said of government. The Walrasian model of the market economy generates full employment, maximum efficiency, optimum welfare and presumably peace on earth. There is virtually nothing for a government to do, apart from ensuring that contracts are enforceable, and providing some public goods. The supporters of free-market economics are therefore in the peculiar position of advocating detailed monetary and government policies on the basis of a theory which requires neither money nor government. <br />
<br />
Perhaps related to these weaknesses is a further difficulty. This is that the problems which we face in the real world are simply not problems in the model. Consider inflation: in red life it poses problems. It affects the distribution of income, for example, because it hits so unevenly. In recent years the prices of basic commodities have increased faster than those of luxury goods, and this has made the poor poorer in real terms (since even where their incomes have kept pace with the general rate of inflation, they have risen slower than the prices of the basic goods on which most of their incomes are spent). Yet in the monetarist, 'new classical' model, inflation has no real effects — all prices change in proportion, including wages, and every-one is affected identically. No one either benefits or loses, there is no effect on output or employment. So why on earth is it a problem? in particular why is it necessary to advocate recession-inducing economic <br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 147 <br />
policies in order to reduce it? (Actually there is a 'cost' of inflation in the monetarist approach, which it is almost embarrassing to record. It is a 'shoe leather' cost: as inflation proceeds we with to hold less cash, because the value of money is diminishing. So we keep it in the bank since the interest earned will maintain the value of our cash even though prices are increasing. But because we are economizing on cash we must make more frequent journeys to the bank for cash, thus wearing out shoe leather. This, for monetarism, is a significant cost of inflation. It is for this that, at the time of writing, three million British unemployed are doing their bit in the struggle against inflation.) <br />
<br />
Similar things can be said of unemployment as an economic problem. Unemployment can only exist because of a too-high wage rate in the new classical system, and this cannot be more than temporary. Consider the current unemployment in the UK. This can only be the result of 'expectational errors' — past or present — on the part of workers. The government is adopting a policy of monetary restriction; this leads to falling wages. Workers think, mistakenly, that their real wages are falling because money wages are in effect falling. Because of this expectation of falling real wages workers wish to work less. Soon, however, they will see that all prices are falling, and that real wages are not falling, and they will offer to work more. Any unemployed who are not in this position can, however, still get a job by accepting a lower real wage. Thus all unemployment is either temporary or voluntary in the monetarist model. These interpretations have been seriously offered in explanation of the current recession in Britain. <br />
<br />
These kinds of weaknesses clearly raise doubts about the applicability of the model to questions of practical policy in the real world of the economy. The matter of 'applicability' is a problem in itself, to do with the grounds on which monetarists think that their results can be used in practice. What is involved is a complex issue of scientific method, which certainly cannot be treated adequately here. But a certain amount can be said. The difficulty is this: too many monetarists think, like many people, that a theory consists simply of a statement about the world, which can be easily shown to be true or false. Actually any really adequate theory is much more than this, it is <br />
<br />
148 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
much more complex. A fully developed theory must do many things. It must elaborate a range of general concepts which set out its problem area, or 'domain', and it must develop further concepts in order to solve the puzzles and perplexities of the theory. It must specify what is to count as evidence, and it must have methods of assessing the relevance and meaning of evidence. It must have criteria for deciding what will count as an explanation or a proof. And finally it must set out the conditions under which its results can be used.<br />
<br />
General equilibrium theory, despite its many achievements, fails in a number of these areas, but most importantly in the last. Far too many 'equilibrium' economists simply assume that the theory does actually describe the real economy (or the real economy as it would be without distortions). They also assume, again without serious argument, that results obtained with the drastically simplified model are actually applicable to the messy and complex world of policy making. To accept such ideas at the present stage of development of the theory requires, however, not a scientific approach but its opposite: an act of faith.<br />
<br />
Yet these easy and unjustified assumptions are an integral part of the arguments for laissez-faire, and for less extreme forms of free-market policy making. The <i>'</i>rational expectations' approach seems to go even further, by assuming not only that the monetarist version of general equilibrium is true, but also that it is obvious. To be precise, it assumes that we can draw inferences about the real workings of the economy which, if we are intelligent and rational, would lead us to monetarist conclusions. Quite apart from the way this consigns opponents of monetarism to an outer darkness of irrationality and stupidity, this is a fanciful notion. Can one, for example, draw inferences from money supply figures which will correctly predict, in detail, the future course of inflation? The answer is simple: no. One wonders what remains of the basis of claims of policy ineffectiveness.<br />
<br />
The final word on the policy pretensions of general equilibrium theory can best be left to Professor Frank Hahn of Cambridge, one of the very best of the modern general equilibrium theorists: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I have always regarded competitive General Equilibrium analysis as akin to the mock-up an aircraft engineer might build. My amazement in recent years has accordingly been very great to find that many economists are passing the </blockquote>
<blockquote>
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 149 <br />
mock-up off as an airworthy plane, and that politicians, bankers and commentators are scrambling to get seats. This at a time when theorists all over the world have become aware that anything based on this mock-up is unlikely to fly, since it neglects some crucial aspects of the world, the recognition of which will force some drastic redesigning. Moreover at no stage was the mock-up complete; in particular it provided no account of the actual working of the Invisible Hand [2] </blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">ALTERNATIVES IN GENERAL EQUILIBRIUM</span></h4>
The central weakness of general equilibrium theory lies, it has been emphasized, not so much in the theory itself as in the rather blithe use which is made of its results. True, the theory is sketchy and restricted in many ways, despite its mathematical complexity; and it is also true that criticism could be directed against the equilibrium approach as a whole. But there are developments of general equilibrium theory which move beyond the naiveties of its monetarist and new classical variations. This section will briefly outline some of these alternative positions within general equilibrium theory; it will discuss first the <i>interpretation</i> of general equilibrium, and secondly its <i>development</i>.<br />
<br />
General equilibrium theory is frequently interpreted as a descriptive theory of the capitalist economy. Another account has been offered, however, by Professor Hahn, in which general equilibrium is seen not as an investigation of the capitalist economy as such, but rather of its effects on economic 'welfare'. Since Adam Smith, a persistent refrain in economics has been that market systems work ultimately to the benefit of all. They produce what was described in Chapter 6 as an 'optimum', a 'best possible' solution to the economic problem of what should be produced, and how, and of who should get what. It turns out to be relatively simple to show that a Walrasian general equilibrium is such an optimum. It is a 'best possible' arrangement in the sense that nothing could be changed without making someone worse off. Now suppose that the focus of the analysis is shifted. Instead of treating general equilibrium theory as an analysis of market economies with certain interesting 'spin-off' conclusions about economic welfare,<br />
<br />
<br />
150 • THE. BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
let it be treated directly as a theory of welfare. Turn the analysis on its head, as it were: start with full employment, maximum efficiency and general economic bliss, and then ask, what characteristics do markets have to have for these desirable ends to be achieved? What would a market economy have to look like if these results were to be produced? General equilibrium tells us the answers to these questions. It tells us, for example, that the economy must consist of a large number of markets and futures markets (many more than exist in any real economy); that these markets must be fully competitive —no one can set prices in them; that prices must be flexible; that there must be perfect knowledge and an absence of uncertainty; and so on, and so on. These 'answers' are of course simply the 'initial assumptions' described in Chapter 6, looked at in another way. What conclusions can be drawn from this interpretation? <br />
<br />
The broadest conclusion is that general equilibrium theory, far from being a foundation of free-market economic policy, is actually a disproof of the practicality of such a policy. General equilibrium theory formulates the conditions necessary for a valid laissez-faire policy; since those conditions are not met, then policies which have the 'market mechanism' as their basis should be labelled 'handle with care'. In particular we should be careful about the argument that government interventionist policies cannot improve on laissez-faire, as Professor Willem Buiter has recently pointed out 'While economists — in their less guarded moments — frequently advance variants on this argument, it has no sound foundation as a generally valid proposition, either in economic theory or in careful empirical observation.'<br />
<br />
This kind of interpretation, it should be said, is hardly common among general equilibrium theorists. In the main they remain committed to the idea that the objective of the theory should be to describe the principles on which the real economy works. Where this has been taken seriously it has led to attempts to make the theory in some sense more 'realistic'. There there are two broad strategies. The first involves a straightforward modification of the 'initial assumptions' in favour of a measure of realism. If it is assumed, for example, that prices and wages are not flexible — that they are 'sticky' and unresponsive to changes in demand — then it is simple to show that disequilihrium' positions exist for the economy. These positions are<br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 151<br />
<br />
characterized by unemployment and restricted output; since firms cannot sell the quantity of output they would like to sell, and workers cannot sell the quantity of labour they would like, these positions are known as 'quantity-constrained' or 'quantity-rationed' equilibria. <br />
<br />
One obvious Conservative objection to this is to say that the 'quantity constraints' are due only to the inflexibility of prices, to rigidities which the government should attempt to remove. The second major strategy, therefore, accepts the possibility of flexible prices, and shows how quantity constraints can still emerge. One way of doing this is to introduce real time into the analysis: if the economy adjusts to equilibrium in a series of steps, through time, then at each of the steps there will be a certain level of unemployment or unsold output and / or unsatisfied demand. This is, again, relatively straightforward once we move away from the instantaneous adjustments of the Walrasian model. Another approach is to acknowledge that agents actually have to set prices and that they do so in conditions of uncertainty, and in particular without knowing how a price change might affect any quantity constraint that they face. As with the introduction of time into the analysis, this is reasonable and plausible, and leads to 'quantity constraints' even with flexible prices. Unused resources and unemployment can be a more or less permanent feature of such an economy. These types of equilibria turn out to have strange features: for example, it may be possible to increase output and employment by increasing the money supply ... <br />
<br />
These kinds of results are now fairly well known, and acknowledged, in general equilibrium theory. They push that theory directly into Keynesian territory, for it was Keynes who initiated the analysis of states of equilibrium with unemployment (a result which, prior to his work, was considered impossible). In doing so they undercut the monetarist claim that its economic basis, general equilibrium theory, licenses an economic policy of non-intervention and <i>laissez-faire</i>. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION </span></h4>
In assessing economic policy pronouncements it is important to understand the basis on which they are made. Economic policies <br />
<br />
<br />
152 - THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
which emphasize the operation of free markets are invariably based - either explicitly or implicitly - on general equilibrium theory, for it is the most complete available model of the free-market economy. The status of that theory is therefore of considerable import-ance. <br />
<br />
But the theory has many problems. In recent years there has been considerable debate within the economics profession over results - especially concerning economic policy - which have been 'proved' on the basis of general equilibrium theory. However, even though many dispute these results, it remains true that the overwhelming majority of economists still accept and teach a broad view of the market system which is consistent with general equilibrium theory or derived from it. The consensus is that markets work, more or less well, and that some form of 'market economics' is the appropriate framework for both theory and policy; it is an article of faith that free markets produce desirable outcomes. <br />
<br />
But the theory simply does not support such conclusions, especially in the field of policy. This is why I believe that Professor Hahn was quite right when he suggested, a few years ago, that 'the vulgarizations of General Equilibrium which are the substance of most text-books of economics are both scientifically and politically harmful'<b>.</b> The problem is that the vulgarizations have, with a vengeance, stepped out of the pages of the textbooks, and out of the lecture theatres where they can do only intellectual damage, into the world of policy making. Policy making in Britain has been marked by a disastrous over-confidence in the capabilities of the market economy, and a careless belief in the essential correctness of market economics. Objecting to all this does not mean that markets are useless or inefficient, nor need it mean that governments either can be or should be all powerful in the economic domain. On the contrary, the arguments advanced here against 'free-market' economic policies involve no presumption that 'planning' of some sort could work any better. It does mean, however, that greater care should be taken in assessing the role of private enterprise and market forces in economic recovery. Furthermore it means ;hat the economic role of the government should be put on the agenda once again: if general equilibrium analyses of the economy <br />
<br />
MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY • 153 <br />
show anything, it is that it is very unrealistic to place any great faith in market forces alone. The crucial questions for Britain concern the forms, objectives, limits and control of intervention. It is not simply general equilibrium theory, but economics as a whole, which is unfitted to answer such questions. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<i><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">8</span></span></i></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><i>Keynes and Intervention</i> </span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
In view of the fact that monetarist and 'new classical' ideas are often presented - especially in the policy field - as a counter-revolution against a prevailing Keynesian orthodoxy, it may seem strange to discuss them in apparently reverse order, with Keynes coming after the monetarism which is ostensibly a reaction to his thought. Yet there is a good reason for this sequence. Keynes, like modern monetarists, saw his work as a theoretical revolt against an established economic orthodoxy, which he called 'classical economics', a heading which lumped together such writers as Marshall, Jevons and Walras. Now modern monetarism is in large part a reassertion, or more accurately a reformulation, of the central ideas of this older orthodoxy against which Keynes set his face. Hence the term 'new classical macroeconomics'. Because monetarism is very much a revival of an older doctrine, it continues to make sense to discuss Keynes and Keynesianism as a rejection of the 'free-market' economics which monetarism has resuscitated.<br />
<br />
There is a problem in outlining and discussing Keynesian economies, however. Just as monetarism is not a unified doctrine, but rather a range of often discrepant ideas sharing a broad vision of the efficacy of markets, so Keynesian economics is not one theory but many. Within the varieties of Keynesianism, however, there is very little in the way of a core of shared concepts. The result is a diverse set of ideas and theories which are not easily summarized; some parts of Keynesian economics converge towards the neoclassical system, with its emphasis on the market mechanism, while others veer off towards Marxian economics, with its picture of a dynamic yet unstable economy in which markets fail to harmonize different needs and interests, and instead reflect a world of power, politics and struggle. <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 155 <br />
Between these extremes lies an enormous variety of intermediate positions which defy description, let alone systematic analysis, in one chapter or even one book. However, the differences between them boil down to quite fundamental - and in some ways quite simple - disagreements about the properties of market systems. As we saw in Chapter 6, the neoclassical view holds that markets coordinate economic activities by conveying information. This information concerns supply and demand conditions - conditions of production on one side, and consumer needs on the other - and the signal which conveyed the relevant information was the changing price of the product in the market. But do things really work like this? And if they do not, what are the consequences for the economy as a whole? Is it possible for market economies to generate not full employment but recession, not wealth but unsatisfied needs? In one way the answer to such questions seems very straightforward: one only needs to take a look around. But in analytical terms things are not so plain, since we are concerned with the theoretical implications of a particular model of the economy, rather than the often confused and confusing evidence of the real world.<br />
<br />
Before going on to the theory, it is worth saying something about why controversies about it exist at all within Keynesian theory. After all, Keynesian economics, unlike monetarism, is based on a specific text by a specific author: John Maynard Keynes, of course, and his book <i>The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money</i>. It seems strange, therefore, that there should be disputes among Keynesian economists as to the meaning of Keynesian economies, as to its core concepts, as to what ideas are necessary to Keynesian theory and what are not. Presumably Keynesian ideas are defined by the text of the General Theory, and controversies about the meaning of Keynesian economies can be resolved by an appeal to that text. Unfortunately things are not so simple. In some ways the General Theory is in the great tradition of path-breaking scientific texts, meaning that it combines analytical innovations of great power, scope and complexity with passages which are confused, internally contradictory, generally tricky to decipher or just plain wrong. This mixture of advances and problems is characteristic not just of Keynes, but also of most of the major texts of scientific breakthrough. <br />
<br />
An important implication of all this is that the labour of under-<br />
<br />
<br />
156 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
standing, of working out and constructing the meaning of texts is an integral and normal part of scientific practice, in economics as in ' other disciplines, and it cannot really be dodged. Within Keynes's work the central problems revolve around the fact that the work is presented as an explicit rejection of what he called <i>'the postulates of the classical economics'</i> yet appears to involve an equally explicit acceptance that sometimes those very postulates are valid. The issues here are frequently fudged both in textbooks of economics and popular and journalistic representations of Keynes, yet they arc crucial to any real understanding of the status of modern Keynes-based economics. They hold the key both to the continuing relevance of Keynes, and to the areas where his work may be an unreliable guide to policy. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">KEYNES'S CHALLENGE TO MARKET ECONOMICS </span></h4>
On the basis of its account of market systems and the 'market mechanism', neoclassical economics reaches three main conclusions: <br />
Firstly, that capitalist economics are basically stable (they are not subject to major fluctuations in output and employment). <br />
Secondly, they tend towards a full-employment level of output. <br />
Thirdly, in consequence, there is no real case for government intervention to ensure stability and growth and to promote full employment. Within the neoclassical approach, deviations from full employment and stability arc ultimately the result of market imperfections, meaning that somewhere along the line supplies and demands (of goods, or of labour) are out of alignment because prices are not moving smoothly enough to equate supply and demand. Unemployment is a consequence of wage rates being too high. The level of output is closely related to profitability, to the amount enterprises find it profitable to produce: the way to get them to produce more is to cut their costs (especially of labour) and to raise their margins of profit. This leads in practise to a concentration on what are often called 'supply side' policy measures: wage restraint and tax cuts, to raise the post-tax return from production and hence increase the incentive to produce; ideas like these have been a familiar theme of Thatcherite policy in the UK and 'Reaganomics' in the United States. <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 157 <br />
Within this approach, then, the level of output is determined by decisions by producers, in which costs of production are the crucial clement. The emphasis is, therefore, on factors governing the supply of goods rather than the demand for output. Behind this lies a theoretical argument, to the effect that demand is not a constraining factor in the output of goods and services. This position is set up by open or covert reference to a hoary economic principle known as 'Say's Law', normally expressed as 'supply creates its own demand'. The underlying idea can be put in a number of ways. For example, the basic motivation behind offering a good for sale in a market is to earn the wherewithal to buy some other good: thus the supply of some good is in effect a simultaneous demand for some other good. This point applies to labour as much as to commodities, and the conclusion follows that the overall demand for goods is equal to the quantity which people wish to supply. Another way of getting to the same result is to note that the price of any commodity can be de-composed into the incomes earned in producing it. The total value of cars, for example, produced annually in Britain is equal to total costs of production plus profits. But these costs (wages, and other inputs) and profits in fact constitute an income for someone or other — for workers, or suppliers of materials, or shareholders in the firm. So the sum of these incomes is equal to the total value of output, and this is true not just for car production but for the production of each and every product or service in the economy. It seems to follow that demand is not a problem for the sale of output as a whole: the process of production creates exactly enough incomes to buy the total output. Of course there may be problems for individual products, for which demand may be inadequate, but there is no possibility of a shortage of overall demand. <br />
<br />
It is here that Keynes's objections begin: his argument is that demand <i>is</i> a problem, and that we cannot simply invoke Say's Law to get round it. To begin with, if we are concerned with the level of employment, then this will depend on the number of workers firms wish to employ. But this is a matter not just of the wage rate (the price of labour in the labour market), but also of the amount of goods that firms can expect to sell to consumers. But the amount of goods that consumers will be able to buy will itself be dependent upon their <br />
<br />
158 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
incomes, which depend in turn on their wage rate and the number of them in employment. There is therefore, a complex interdependence between wage rates, incomes, the demand for goods, the demand for workers and the resulting levels of employment and unemployment. None of this is adequately reflected in the simple demand-and-supply approach to unemployment of neoclassical market economics. One criticism, for example, of the neoclassical approach is to point out that when it suggests wage cuts as a solution to unemployment, it is implicitly assuming (a) that this will not affect the overall demand for goods, and (b) that the demand for goods is already at a full output, full employment level. But suppose this is not the case? Then un-employment will result not just from factors in the labour market, but because the overall level of demand is not sufficient to encourage enterprises to produce the maximum output of which they are capable: there is, in short, 'demand failure'. Say's Law does not hold, and rather than supply creating its own demand, demand is a complex phenomenon, determined by many factors; moreover it can determine the level of supply and output. It is this demand problem, and the recognition of demand failure, which forms the connecting thread between the varieties of Keynesian doctrine: in one way or another, all see the problems of unemployment and recession as caused by it. The differences lie in the way in which they describe the emergence of demand failure, and the reasons which they give for the persistence of unemployment once demand failure has occurred. <br />
<br />
Before going on to describe the Keynesian approach to recession and unemployment, a preliminary but important point should be made about the time horizon of the analysis. Economists often distinguish between two sorts of time-period, namely the short run and the long run. The difference is that in the short run the economy operates with the available, given stock of capital and equipment, so its level of output is in large part determined by the extent to which that array of equipment is actually used. In the long run it is possible to change the stock of equipment itself, both in composition and quantity. In the long-period analysis, therefore, changes in the potential output of the economy are considered. Now the Keynesian approach is quite firmly <i>short term</i> in character: it assumes that potential output is given and fixed, and concentrates on the actual output which is <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 159 <br />
achieved; this is because, in one of Keynes's better known remarks, 'in the long run we are all dead'. One might want to quibble with this as a principle for policy analysis (after all, we are not all going to be dead at once, with any luck); nevertheless we do live in the here and now, and output now is of great importance. The point here is that Keynesian economics is abstracting from questions about the long-term development and structure of the economy; it explicitly brackets out, therefore, the issues concerning growth and change which were raised in the first section of this book. Some of the implications of this will be discussed below. <br />
<br />
The question of demand failure has two aspects. The first concerns the impulses which generate output fluctuations, recession and unemployment. The second concerns the mechanisms which keep an economy in an unemployment state. But before describing these processes, and the debates to which they give rise, we need to outline the make-up of 'demand' in the economy as a whole. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">AGGREGATE DEMAND </span></h4>
Keynes and Keynesian arc concerned not so much with the demand for individual commodities, as with total or 'aggregate' demand in the economy. Typically, four components of aggregate demand are distinguished. <br />
<br />
1. <i>Consumption demand:</i> for goods to be consumed more or less immediately, by individuals or households. This can include durable goods such as cars or washing machines, which are rather arbitrarily classified as consumption goods if individuals buy them and invest-ment goods if firms buy them. <br />
2. <i>Investment demand:</i> essentially for goods which will yield an income in the future - machines, equipment, buildings, inventory, etc. <br />
3. <i>Export demand:</i> that is, demand for all types of British goods outside Britain. <br />
4. <i>Government demand</i>. This is in turn divided into demand for current goods and services (typewriter ribbons, civil servants' pay) and capital transactions (buildings, equipment, etc.). <br />
<br />
In addition to these components of aggregate demand there is a further market which must be mentioned since it has important inter-<br />
<br />
<br />
160 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
actions with these 'goods' markets, and affects aggregate demand. This is the so-called 'money market'. Within this market money is exchanged for financial assets. A simple form of such a market is an ordinary deposit account we hand over money to a bank, and receive in return an account on which interest is paid; this asset can be reclaimed as money simply by a withdrawal. In an economy like Britain's, the money market is exceptionally complex, with a very wide range of financial assets on offer, ranging from building society accounts, to shares, to insurance policies, to government bonds. Each of these types of asset comes in a wide variety of forms. In the simple Keynesian system it is assumed that there is a market for only one asset, government bonds, which are in effect IOUs issued by the government in return for money, investors get a regular interest payment and a promise to repay the total after some specified time. <br />
<br />
Now let us try to see some of the ways in which these types of demand and market can interact to generate demand failure. In doing so we will concentrate on two forms of demand only: consumption and investment <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONSUMPTION AND INVESTMENT </span></h4>
Suppose we consider a simple economy which produces two types of goods, namely consumption goods (for immediate or more or less immediate consumption) and investment goods (for future use). As these goods are produced they will generate incomes, in the form of wages and profits, to the workers and capitalists who produce them. These incomes will be equal to the value of output. Now with their incomes, people can basically do two things: they can spend them, or they can save them. In the case of saving they are postponing expenditure until some time in the future. <br />
<br />
It is easy to sec that if this economy is to be in equilibrium, that is if it is to be stable, and without forces operating to change the level and types of output and employment, then there must be a definite relation between what people decide to do with their incomes, and what the economy is actually producing in terms of consumption and investment goods. For the consumer goods producers to be producing exactly the right amount of output, so that they do not have unsold <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 161 <br />
stocks, and so that people do not have unsatisfied demand, the consumption goods output must be equal to the amount which people decide to consume out of their incomes. In this way there is exactly enough - no more, no less - consumption goods demand to buy the consumption goods output. If consumption goods demand is greater than the output of consumption goods, we can assume that output will rise to meet the demand (providing that the economy is not already at maximum output). Conversely, if demand is inadequate to buy consumption goods output, then output will contract. So it follows that consumption goods demand and output will tend to equality. <br />
<br />
This implies that investment must be based on that part of incomes not consumed - on savings, in fact. If total output is equal to total incomes in value, and if consumption output equals consumption expenditure, then the amount of savings must equal the amount of investment. The amount of income which people decide not to consume must somehow provide the demand for investment goods, either by being spent directly on them, or by being recycled through the financial system to be spent on investment goods. But how does this happen? What is it which makes the savings of the economy just adequate to finance the investment which is being undertaken (in new factories, machines, and so on)? Clearly savings and investment will not be equal all by themselves - except by some very unlikely accident - since decisions to save and to invest are made by two quite different sets of people. It is individuals who save, but firms who invest. Only by some bizarre chance will they decide to save and invest exactly the same amount. So what kinds of mechanism operate to keep savings equal to investment, and thus keep the economy in balance? <br />
<br />
In the system of neoclassical economics, it is argued that this problem is solved - as are most problems within it - by the operation of the price system and the market mechanism. Savings and investment are seen as the supply of, and demand for, investible resources. The price of these resources is the <i>interest rate</i>, the basic function of which is to equate savings and investment. If people decide to consume less and save more, then the supply of investiblc resources has increased, and we might expect the price - the interest rate - to fall. Like all price changes, this is a signal. On the one hand it signals that investment resources are cheaper, and can therefore be expected to <br />
<br />
<br />
162 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
earn a greater return. More abstractly, perhaps, it signals that people are postponing consumption now for consumption some time in the future, and so enterprises should invest to be able to produce in the future. So enterprises invest more, and a new equilibrium emerges, with lower consumption but higher savings and investment and a new interest rate. Overall demand remains exactly what it was - the fall in consumption is offset by increased investment. People's savings decisions, therefore, do not affect aggregate demand. This is what Alfred Marshall - in many respects the founder of the English neo-classical tradition - presumably had in mind in a remark quoted by Keynes: '... a man purchases labour and commodities with that portion of his income which he saves just as much as he does with that he is said to spend'. in this approach, therefore, output and income stay at full employment levels, and the interest rate is the mechanism which makes savings equal to investment, thus keeping output and incomes in balance, and the economy stable. <br />
<br />
Keynes's work is an attempt to disrupt this story of full-employment stability, to rethink it in ways which make it possible to under-stand the occurrence and persistence of recession. Two central strands of his argument concern the nature of the interest rate - what it is and what it does - and the consequences of any fluctuation in consumption spending. Let us begin with the interest rate, and then trace the way in which changes in consumption demand can generate a recession and unemployment in which no forces are in play to get the economy out of its unemployment predicament. <br />
<br />
In the first place, Keynes contests the idea that the interest rate is the price of invcstible resources in the broad sense; it is not determined by the supply and demand for investment. Rather it is a monetary phenomenon. It is the price of money, and is determined in the money markets. As such it is governed by the supply of money (determined by the government and the nature of the banking system) and the conditions governing the demand for money (such as people's need to finance transactions, and the advantages of holding money rather than interest-bearing financial assets). Out of these interacting supply and demand conditions an interest rate will emerge. 'Savings' do not enter the equation here: Keynes's crucial point is that changes in the volume of savings do not in themselves change these monetary <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 163 <br />
conditions which determine the interest rate. So increases or decreases in savings do not produce interest rate shifts which adjust the level of investment so that it is equal to the new level of savings. But this equality must be brought about if the economy is to be in equilibrium. This brings us to Keynes's fundamental idea, which is that the equality of savings and investment is brought about not through variations in the interest rate, but through increases or decreases in the amount of total national income. Perhaps the best way to see the process is to consider the effects of a fluctuation in consump-tion, and then to examine what happens to the savings-investment relation. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE DEVELOPMENT OF A RECESSION </span></h4>
Suppose that people decide, for whatever reason, to consume less and to save a higher proportion of their income. The immediate result of this will be twofold: in the first place savings will now be higher than the going level of investment; and in the second place there will be a fall in the sale of consumption goods, as people consume less in order to save more. Consequently firms in consumption goods industries will have stocks of unsold goods. They will therefore reduce their outputs of such goods in response to the falling demand. As these firms reduce output there will as a consequence be falls in the incomes of those producing; firms will lay off workers until they have just enough to produce the new, lower, level of output. So there will be a lower level of overall income in the economy. But as incomes fall we might expect further falls in the level of consumption; and as consumption falls firms will cut back output and employment further. This next round of output restrictions means further falls in incomes and then consumption. The economy thus enters on a downward spiral, in which the first-round effect of a fall in consumption spending is 'multiplied' by second- and third-round effects. In effect, the system has 'positive feedback', for the original disturbance is amplified by the way in which falls in consumption and income reinforce each other to generate a major disturbance. Clearly this contrasts sharply with the 'negative feedback' of the neoclassical theory, in which a consumption cut - meaning an increase in saving - leads to <br />
<br />
<br />
164 THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
interest rate falls which increase investment and thus dampen down the effects of the initial disruption to stability. <br />
<br />
In the Keynesian approach, therefore, a fill in demand produces economic 'echoes' which enlarge the demand problem yet further. This effect is known within the Keynesian system as the 'multiplier' relation: the multiplier describes the ultimate change in income resulting from some initial change in aggregate demand. Of course multiplier effects are not argued to continue ad infinitum: a cut in consumption will not lead to an ultimate income of zero. Rather the system will settle down to stability at some new - and lower - level of income. The main determinant of this point will be the savings-investment relation. Remember that the downward spiral began be-cause people decided to consume less and save more; thus investment and savings were no longer equal and a general demand imbalance emerged in the economy. This generated falls in output and income. However, as income declines, not only does consumption decline, but also savings begin to decline: people who are earning less tend to save less. Eventually, income will fall to a point which reduces savings back to the original level of investment. At this point consumption demand will once again be equal to consumption output, and the system will be stable, in equilibrium. The actual level of output at which this occurs will be determined by two main forces: people's decisions as to the amount they wish to consume out of income, and the level of investment which enterprises wish to undertake. But it is investment which is the crucial, 'active', element: once the level of investment is fixed, then income will either grow or fall to make savings equal to it. It will fix a level of aggregate demand to which output and income will adjust. But in the Keynesian system there is no necessity for this to be at a full employment, full output level; the economy may well settle down at a level where savings and investment are equal, but output is well below the maximum attainable. <br />
<br />
Note the crucial difference between this account and the neoclassical approach. Each involves a mechanism which equates savings to investment, but these 'adjustment' mechanisms are very different and entail very different economic outcomes. In the neoclassical world it is the interest rate which adjusts, forcing investment and saving into line; income remains unchanged. In the Keynesian theory, the <br />
<br />
KEYNES AND INTERVENTION • 165 <br />
burden of adjustment is on income, which falls until a new equilibrium point is reached. In the neoclassical story there is but one equilibrium point: at full employment. For Keynes there are many possible equilibria, depending on the aggregate demand situation: full employment is but one possibility among many, and by no means the most likely. Left to itself, there is no guarantee that the economy will generate the right volume of demand: indeed the chances are over-whelming that it will not. Thus the neoclassical system of economics is what Keynes referred to as a 'special case' - the case of a full employment level of demand. His own account therefore outlines the 'general' case - thus the title '<i>General</i> Theory' - in which unemployment is the rule rather than the exception. In his own words, <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I argue that the postulates of the classical theory are applicable to a special case only and not to a general case ... Moreover the characteristics of the special case assumed by the classical theory happen not to be those of the economic society in which we actually live, with the result that its teaching is misleading and disastrous if we attempt to apply it to the facts of experience. [1] </blockquote>
Before moving on to the various interpretations and constructions which have been put upon Keynes's work, a further point should be made about the picture of 'demand failure' which has been sketched. This is that, in principle, this kind of demand failure can arise from any of thc components of aggregate demand. The case of a change in consumption spending has been described. But similar results would have occurred with a fall in investment, with sudden cuts in govern-ment expenditure (though here the picture is complicated by questions of finance), or with falls in exports. Given that all of these categories of expenditure are capable of fluctuation, then a case begins to emerge for intervention - in practice, by government - to maintain levels of aggregate demand at a volume corresponding to satisfactory levels of employment. <br />
<br />
From this follows the basic Keynesian policy principle: that the government does have an economic task to perform. But it is a limited one, of 'demand management' in response to any prospective demand deficiency. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">9 </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="color: red;">Rewriting Keynes:<br />
Variations on the General Theory </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
The publication of the <i>General Theory</i> in 1936 had a major impact on the economics profession and its thinking about persistent unemployment, but that impact was complicated by the difficulty of understanding all of the elements of Keynes's argument. Years of discussion and debate followed, not because of the well-known penchant of economists for debate, but because of rail problems and confusions in Keynes's text. Almost immediately fellow economists began to publish papers and books either interpreting Keynes's work as a whole, or subjecting parts of it to critical analysis. Because of the complexity of Keynes's work, some of these interpretations were necessarily simplified, concentrating on quite specific aspects of the argument. Joan Robinson's <i>Introduction to the Theory of Employment</i>, published as a guide to students in 1937, focused on the determination of the interest rate and levels of investment, though in some respects it was even wider in scope than Keynes's book. By far the most important of these post-Keynes interpretations was a paper by J. R. Hicks, published in the journal <i>Economica</i> in 1937, in which he developed some relatively simple diagrams to display what he took to be the main thrust of the argument in the <i>General Theory</i>.[1] Within the rather narrow world of professional economics, the paper became a smash hit, and was rapidly reproduced in textbooks. This is still the case. To the present day, when students learn the analysis of the economy as a whole, and the 'Keynesian' system, they almost invariably learn not Keynes, but Hicks's version of Keynes. Even after the monetarist counterrevolution, there is hardly a textbook which does not employ Ilicics's diagrams, and generations of econ-omics students have been trained - and have gone on to practise professionally - without ever reading Keynes. So one way of under-<br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 167 <br />
standing the modem debates about Keynes would be to see them not as concerning Keynes directly, but rather as being about the validity of the Hicksian interpretation of Keynes, and its pervasive effect within the world of economics teaching. So the following pages begin with the Hicks model of Keynes, and go on to the theories and debates which it has engendered. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE HICKS MODEL </span></h4>
In the Hicks version, Keynes's account of the economy involves the operation of two overall markets: a goods market, in which consumption and investment goods arc bought and sold, and a money market, in which financial assets are traded. In the money market people are essentially making a decision as to whether to hold their wealth in the form of interest-yielding government bonds or non-interest-bearing money. Hicks's model is essentially a simple and elegant way of showing the interaction between these two markets, so that the equilibrium level of income can be depicted. <br />
<br />
Let us take first the goods market. Once again, government expenditure and exports will be left out of the picture; aggregate demand is therefore made up of consumption spending and investment demand. So national income will be equal to the total of consumption plus investment. Rut remember that investment is the 'active element' here; for any given level of investment, national income will adjust, so that it generates exactly the right amount of savings. In other words, people will make some decision about the proportion of their income they will consume and the proportion they will save; given that decision, income will adjust to make savings equivalent to investment. It follows that whatever determines the amount of investment will determine the size of national income. Now Keynes's analysis of the investment problem is a complex one, but one theme in it stresses the role of the interest rate. Keynes, like the ncoclassicals, suggests that a fall in the interest rate will produce higher investment, and a rise in interest rates will lower investment. Hicks makes the interest rate effectively the only determinant of investment in his model (some of the objections to this will be discussed below), and this leads to a simple relation between the rate of interest and the level of <br />
<br />
<br />
168 THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
income. As the rate of interest falls, investment rises, aggregate demand rises and income rises. The rise in income will be just sufficient to generate a new level of savings equal to the higher level of investment. This means that every equilibrium point in the goods market, that is every point at which investment equals savings, will also correspond to a particular level of income, and to a particular value for the rate of interest. <br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTQ4VNdRqkHwaOjWTDQcX9QLTZTZnwqyz_X8d8HkivrG9doMFfjERx0gwQPTS7dheUdxnPchIQsqV9HbLfB5Y3V3tXUs7AnRB6POX118szYKkEw8jVXW0Ol_wLZECU9z3TIONEiHjjrZnf/s1600/IS-curve.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="306" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTQ4VNdRqkHwaOjWTDQcX9QLTZTZnwqyz_X8d8HkivrG9doMFfjERx0gwQPTS7dheUdxnPchIQsqV9HbLfB5Y3V3tXUs7AnRB6POX118szYKkEw8jVXW0Ol_wLZECU9z3TIONEiHjjrZnf/s320/IS-curve.jpg" width="320" /></a><br />
The first of Hicks's diagrams (fig. 2) illustrates this idea. On the vertical axis, the symbol '<b><span style="color: red;">r</span></b>' means the rate of interest, and on the horizontal axis, the symbol '<b><span style="color: red;">y</span></b>' means national income: lower interest rates are associated with higher income and vice versa. Hicks calls this the <span style="color: red;">'IS' curve</span>. It traces out the combination of rate of interest and national income at which investment is equal to savings and the goods market is therefore in equilibrium. To repeat, <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 169 <br />
it simply says that, given people's consumption decisions, a lower interest rate means more investment, which means a higher level of income. At every point along the curve investment will be equal to saving, and so we have the quintessentially Keynesian idea that equilibrium can occur at almost any level of income. <br />
<br />
Because the curve traces out a range of possible incomes, however, we have no way of knowing which will emerge as the <i>actual</i> level of income. That will depend on whatever the interest rate in fact turns out to be. So the question is, what determines the interest rate? As indicated, for Keynes the interest rate is a monetary phenomenon, emerging from the money markets. Hicks's model also depicts this process, once again showing a relationship between the interest rate and national income. <br />
<br />
Hicks's version of Keynes's money market theory runs as follows. If there is a given amount of money in the system, then people can do two things with it. They can use it to finance transactions, or they can hold it as an asset (since money is a store of value). For any given level of national income, people will require a certain amount of money to finance current transactions. As income rises, they will need more 'transactions cash' and as income falls they will need less. If the money supply is fixed, then the amount of money available for holding as an asset will simply be whatever is left after the 'transactions demand for money' has been satisfied. So as income rises, the quantity of money available for holding as an asset falls; and vice versa when income falls. Now the alternative to holding money as an asset is to switch it into some other financial asset, namely interest-bearing government bonds. Without going into the details of the way the bond market operates, it is argued that there is an inverse relationship between the return on bonds (which is the interest rate) and the amount of 'asset money' there is in the system, after the 'transactions demand' has been taken are of. The larger the amount of asset money, the lower the interest rate; if the amount of asset money falls, then the interest rate rises. Once again this implies a definite relationship between the interest rate and the level of national income. If the money supply is fixed, then the higher the level of income, the higher will be the requirement for 'transactions' money, the lower will be the amount of 'asset money' and the higher will be the rate of <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
170 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
interest. In the money market there will be a direct relationship between the rate of interest and the level of income. The second of Hicks's diagrams (fig. 3) illustrates this. <br />
<br />
Figure 3. Hicks's LM Curve.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj89sTk2NXFg6r7UrtLMvVziKRw1lFjJbZd10mUHYzVzxTR4DYey60bzMD7TPbbjo9Ho_BABWNTzst5EJZErUQq2EvB-EGEGuyJcuF1k30aUfZda2ZHQrwQ7Zjt4DFmcguSyRanozqvTRfj/s1600/Figure+3+LM.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="302" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj89sTk2NXFg6r7UrtLMvVziKRw1lFjJbZd10mUHYzVzxTR4DYey60bzMD7TPbbjo9Ho_BABWNTzst5EJZErUQq2EvB-EGEGuyJcuF1k30aUfZda2ZHQrwQ7Zjt4DFmcguSyRanozqvTRfj/s320/Figure+3+LM.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />
This time we are tracing out all the combinations of interest rate and income which keep the money market in equilibrium, meaning that the supply of money is just equal to what people want to hold, both as transactions and asset money. Hicks called this curve the '<b><span style="color: red;">LM</span></b>' Curve.Because Hicks's two diagrams involve the same variables (the rate of interest and the level of income) they can be put together (fig. 4) to find the combination of interest rate and income which will deliver simultaneous equilibrium in both markets. <br />
<br />
The equilibrium point is given by the intersection of the <b><span style="color: red;">IS</span></b> and <b><span style="color: red;">LM</span></b> curves: at this intersection, the rate of interest (marked as r*) and <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE. GENERAL THEORY • 171 <br />
Figure 4. Equilibrium. <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGLcrPlpd7WYFRovLo2kKe5xrsKeuKWcu75P22TIj82coiFSIaUH1P7QpnsU4q0p6clkVQomi8t3T8lq5e5dQClqZqfXFG5kR195SGvXoN_R3yTJWTP6PnvbhkjBlfn7hj0vRrdrghDcCX/s1600/scan361.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="293" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGLcrPlpd7WYFRovLo2kKe5xrsKeuKWcu75P22TIj82coiFSIaUH1P7QpnsU4q0p6clkVQomi8t3T8lq5e5dQClqZqfXFG5kR195SGvXoN_R3yTJWTP6PnvbhkjBlfn7hj0vRrdrghDcCX/s320/scan361.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
income (y*) are at the only values which give equilibrium in both markets. Thus we have determined the actual level of income which will emerge from the interaction of goods and money markets. And, to repeat, the central point of Keynes's work is that this equilibrium point is variable. It depends, for example, on the particular nature of people's savings and consumption decisions, on the decisions of entrepreneurs as to how much they will invest, on the supply of money in the system, on the decisions of people in financial markets as to whether to hold money or bonds. There is no guarantee whatsoever that the equilibrium level of income which emerges will be sufficient to employ all of the available workforce. <br />
<br />
It may well be an equilibrium at a low level of income and a high level of un-employment. <br />
<br />
<br />
172 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE CAREER OF THE HICKS MODEL </span></h4>
There is no doubt that the Hicksian approach — or the <span style="color: red;">IS</span>-<span style="color: red;">LM</span> model as it is most widely known — has been one of the real success stories of modern economics. The reasons are very straightforward: it is easy to each to students, there is no great problem in expanding it, and it can be used to explore the implications of a wide range of economic alternatives. It is relatively simple, for example, to open up the model to include foreign trade and the balance of payments, and to include government expenditure and taxation. And by changing the positions of the curves and changing their shapes (that is, making them steeper or shallower) it is possible for students to analyse the effects of different assumptions about how the economy works.<br />
<br />
In fact, the uses of such a model go well beyond teaching. Underlying the curves on the diagrams are equations which specify, for instance, the relationship between the amount people consume and the level of national income. It is possible to use statistical techniques to spell out the actual value of the variables in these equations, and then to calculate what national income would be if, for example, the government were to cut taxes by a certain amount, or raise its expenditure by printing money, or whatever. These procedures underlie the so-called 'forecasting' models which are used to predict our short-term economic futures; the government uses such a model, the 'Treasury model', which consists of about 800 main equations. So, although the diagrammatic approach I have outlined above is extremely basic, it is capable of being extended in very sophisticated ways. <br />
<br />
The question is, however, to what extent are these diagrams an adequate representation of the ideas Keynes was concerned with? Recall that Keynes saw his work as a distinct break with the neoclassical system; in many ways his views on neoclassicism were scathing. The problems with the Hicks model begin with the fact that it is quite unclear just how far the Hicks version reproduces this rejection. Is the Hicks version of Keynes really inconsistent with the neoclassical approach which Keynes claimed was so mistaken? Or is it in fact simply a variant of neoclassical market theory, in which the demonstration that the economy can generate permanent unemployment <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 173 <br />
and recession is achieved by sleight of hand? These questions arise because it is possible to make the Flicks model generate results which are in effect those of the neoclassical system. <br />
<br />
In the neoclassical view, for example, employment depends on the real wage rate, and unemployment is a consequence of wages being too high. This leads to the idea that unemployment can be cured by wage cuts, an idea which seems incompatible with Keynes's account which is based on demand failure, on an inadequate level of demand for output. Yet it is possible to use the Hicks approach to suggest that from a position of unemployment, wage cuts will indeed do the trick and restore full employment. This has been such a central part of recent debate, that the issue is worth examining. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">WAGE CUTTING AND UNEMPLOYMENT </span></h4>
Firstly, the discussion of wage rates and unemployment always makes the distinction between money wages and real wages. Real wages are the actual amount of goods that can be bought with the money wage; broadly speaking it is the money wage divided by the price level. If money wages are unchanged and prices rise, then real wages are falling, and vice-versa. Now the simple 'supply and demand' theory of labour always makes employment depend on the real wage; but with constant prices, clearly a cut in money wages will be a cut in the real wage. So all it takes is for workers to accept a cut in money wages and employment will increase. <br />
<br />
Keynes directs a number of criticisms towards this idea. In the first place, there is the question of whether the demand for products is independent of the wage rate. In the simple neoclassical story it is necessary to assume that prices of products, and the quantity of them which is demanded, are not going to be reduced by any reduction in wages. Now, this may be reasonable for a single product, but it is certainly unreasonable to think of the whole economy like this. If wages fall, then costs will fall, and the process of competition will force firms to lower prices in line with costs. If prices fall in the same proportion as money wages, then real wages (i.e. the money-wage) price ratio) will be constant, so what incentive is there for firms to hire more workers? On the whole, of course, prices would not fall as <br />
<br />
<br />
174 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
much as wages - because wages are not the only cost of production -but even so, Keynes argued in the <i>General Theory</i>, neoclassical economics had really given no serious thought to what would happen to prices in the event of a general wage cut. However, neoclassical theorists have produced a range of answers to these objections. These tend to rely not on the direct effects of wage cuts - though it is still maintained that wage cuts directly increase employment - but on various indirect effects. The most important indirect effects are as follows. <br />
<br />
1. If wages and prices fall, this means that the purchasing power of money, and wealth generally, has increased. The money balances held by money holders will have increased in real terms, in terms of what they can buy. So money holders become more wealthy, and will consume more, thus increasing demand. Wage cuts will therefore not lea to a demand problem. (This process is known in economics as the 'real balance effect'.) <br />
<br />
2. Output will rise because wage and price cuts will have an effect on exports, which will become relatively cheaper abroad. So employment will increase as a result of the effect of wage cuts increasing exports. <br />
<br />
3. As wages and prices fall, the amount of money needed in the system for business transactions will fall; so the 'real' quantity of money in the economy will rise, if the money supply is unchanged. This will cause the interest rate to fall, which will increase investment spending and thus demand will be maintained. These answers to Keynes gave rise to a very particular interpretation of his work. This is that Keynes's work, far from being a new 'general' theory is in fact just a variant, a special case of the old neoclassical system. Keynes gets his results only by imposing restrictions on the old neoclassical theory: in particular that wages are not flexible, that they do not shift in response to changes in supply or demand. If they did, if workers would accept wage cuts when there was unemployment, then there would be no unemployment. In addition, Keynes imposes other sorts of restrictions, such as the idea that investment is not particularly responsive to changes in interest rates. In essence, Keynes makes the mistake of not recognizing mechanisms (1) and (3) above. His work therefore makes no break, at a theoretical <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 175 <br />
level, from the neoclassical economics he affects to supersede; it is the same system, but with a few arbitrary and unwarranted assumptions - notably that wages are 'rigid' - tacked on. <br />
<br />
These kinds of assessment of Keynes's contribution were intensively explored in the dominantly neoclassical economics profession of the United States after the Second World War, being summed up at length in such works as Patinkin's <i>Money, Interest, and Prices</i>. Two sorts of conclusion emerged. One was that Keynes was irrelevant, the only serious economic theory being the neoclassical general equilibrium system described in Chapter 6. The second suggested that Keynes had a point, of limited theoretical significance it is true, but of considerable practical importance. But these conclusions have also given rise to fierce criticisms, so that at present there is simply no overall consensus on what Keynesian economics actually is. There are only factions, the most important of which are discussed below: they can be called, respectively, the 'neoclassical synthesis', the 'Cambridge school', and 'new Keynesianism'. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE NEOCLASSICAL SYNTHESIS </span></h4>
One particular economist dominates the neoclassical synthesis: Paul Samuelson, whose textbook <i>Economics</i> has been sold by the million to generations of students. The central device of the neoclassical synthesis, as the name suggests, is an attempt to reconcile Keynes with the neoclassicism he ostensibly rejected. This is done by admitting the core of the neoclassical objections - by admitting that wage cuts would restore full employment, for example - but arguing that in the real world wages are not, in practise, flexible. Keynes is wrong in a theoretical sense, but he is right in the sense that the world actually works the way he says it does: wages are rigid, prices are not generally flexible, etc. As a practical doctrine, and as a guide to policy, Keynes is useful: he shows how we can expand aggregate demand up to the full employment level. But on a theoretical level, the neoclassical analysis of markets is valid.<br />
<br />
The acceptance of such ideas within the economics profession has led to a teaching approach which is anomalous, to say the least. Students are normally taught an economics which is divided in two: <br />
<br />
<br />
176 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
into <i>micro</i>economics, which deals with the market and production decisions of people and firms, and <i>macro</i>economics which deals with the economy as a whole. The microeconomics component of teaching is almost purely neoclassical: it emphasizes the role of markets, of flexible prices, and suggests that market systems are efficient and welfare-maximizing. The macroeconomics part, however, suggests quite the reverse: it deals with the occurrence of unemployment, trade cycles, recession and instability.<br />
<br />
Not surprisingly the two do not mesh very well. It would be wrong to suggest that this neoclassical version of Keynes, in which his work is integrated with the market economics he hoped to supersede, is a straightforward distortion. Keynes certainly did not work out the micro-economic implications of his ideas. More-over, he himself suggested that his thought was compatible with the neoclassical model. At the very end of the <i>General Theory</i> he explicitly made the suggestion that his work applied only to periods of unemployment.<br />
<br />
His ideas, he suggested, should be used as a guide to getting the economy back to full employment, and then the neoclassical analysis would apply once more. This passing remark by Keynes has been taken up by many British Keynesians, who therefore seem to have Keynes's warrant for a belief in free markets which is hardly less extreme than some monetarists. But this is hooked up with a belief in a particular form of state intervention, namely that the government should simply try to expand demand, and let the market do the rest. However, is this all that Keynes has to sty? We turn now to the theorists who argue that although Keynes flirted with neoclassical ideas, the central thrust of his work was very different. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE CAMBRIDGE SCHOOL </span></h4>
In England such writers as Joan Robinson, Richard Kahn, Nicholas Kaldor and G. L. S. Shackle, mainly but not exclusively based in Cambridge, have consistently argued that the Hicks version is a mis-leading one. Specifically the neoclassical synthesis finds no place for a manlier of important problems which Keynes discussed at great length in the <i>General Theory</i> and which are central to his analysis. <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 177<br />
<br />
Here just one of the crucial Cambridge objections to the Hicks model will be emphasized. This is that it is a static model, like the general equilibrium system, in fact. It concentrates on the factors determining income, output and employment at one moment in time. It is, as it were, a snapshot of the economy at the instant of equilibrium.<br />
<br />
This approach does indeed make some of Keynes's work almost incomprehensible. To take an example, in 1937 Keynes published an article in an American scholarly review, the <i>Quarterly Journal of Economics</i>, to explain the 'simple fundamental ideas' of his just-published book. The article makes odd reading for anyone brought up on the Hicks model. In the first place it begins with a longish, rather philosophical, discussion of the nature of 'uncertainty'. We live, says Keynes, inside a historical process, a progression from past to future. We cannot predict this future. It is not that we know what might happen, and can make some estimate of the probability of things occurring (as in throwing a dice, where we know that some number will come up, and can assess the probability of any particular number turning up). Rather, the problem is either that we cannot reliably assess the probability of some possible event (such as the third world war occurring next year), or simply that we do not know what events might occur. What kinds of ecological problems will the next generation face? Will a cheap substitute for oil be discovered by 1995? On such matters we just don't know what is on the historical agenda.<br />
<br />
Such considerations, Keynes goes on, are of great economic importance. This is because a large number of economic decisions are made with respect to the future. The most important of these are investment choices: when firms invest in new plant and equipment, they are constructing the capacity to produce output in the future. They do so, of course, because they aim at making profits in the future. But such a decision must involve a range of assumptions about what the future will hold: for example, that the interest costs of the capital being used will not rise significantly, that the machinery being installed will not become rapidly obsolete, that demand for the product to be produced will not suddenly evaporate, and so on. But none of these things can be known: they are <i>uncertain</i>. Uncertainty, <br />
<br />
<br />
178 - THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
argues Keynes, also pervades the money markets: when wealth holders decide to keep their wealth in money rather than bonds, they do so because they are worried that bond prices might fall, and they will lose out. This decision, however, has effects on the interest rate, so that interest rates are also affected by uncertainty and the vague and shifting expectation of what the future holds in store. But, of the various factors which affect income, Keynes writes, 'it is those which determine the rate of investment which are the most unreliable'. Investment is based on <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
expectations that have no foundations in circumstances, but take their cuts from the beliefs of others, and that will be sustained by hopes, undermined by fears and continually buffeted by the <i>'news'</i>.[2]</blockquote>
There is, it follows, no reason for investment determined in this way to correspond to the 'full-employment' level. On the contrary, it will do so only by very unlikely accident. Thus 'full, or even approximately full, employment is of rare and short-lived occurrence ... an intermediate situation which is neither desperate nor satisfactory is our lot'. <br />
<br />
This distinction between a world which is static and certain, and one which is historical and uncertain is at the core of the Cambridge objection to the Hicksian approach. From it flow complex issues and problems which cannot be treated here. Underlying everything, however, is the belief that the static equilibrium approach of Hicks - a method based on describing the equilibrium position of the economy at a moment in time - should be abandoned. Rather we should be thinking in dynamic terms, of an economy moving through time, in which changes - in the stock of capital, for instance - are happening constantly. Finally we should be thinking in terms of an economy in which uncertain expectations exist, and should bear in mind their complex political and economic effects. These ideas, the Cambridge school argue, are Keynes's central theme and lasting contribution. The problems arise from the fact that although Keynes was thinking of <i>dynamic</i> problems - of a changing, shifting, unstable economy - he did so with an analysis which was really <i>static</i> in method. It was borrowed, in fact, from Marshall, whose ideas he was attempting to displace. It is the resulting confusions which have given rise to the <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 179 <br />
<br />
debates and differences, and to the bizarre result of a textbook Keynes being assimilated with his neoclassical enemies. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">'NEW KEYNESIANISM'</span></h4>
<br />
Cambridge criticisms of the neoclassical version of Keynes had been made since 'Keynesian' economics first came to dominate economics during and after the Second World War. But in the late 1960s a new line of criticism began to emerge, based not just on the problems of uncertainty and so on, but on more fundamental questions about the nature of market economies. Associated with the names of Professors R. W. Gower and Axel Leijonhufvud (both of the University of California at Los Angeles), the new critique of neoclassicism based its account of effective demand failure on the failure of markets to act as advertised in the neoclassical system. It has given rise to an increasingly substantial academic literature aimed at exploring the ways in which markets do and do not really coordinate economic activities. <br />
<br />
Like the Cambridge critique, the new Keynesianism begins with a straight rejection of the Hicks IS-LM model, which as Leijonhufvud remarked, 'seems to me a singularly inadequate vehicle for the interpretation of Keynes's ideas'. This inadequacy stems from the way the Hicks model can be grafted on to a neoclassical theory so that, for example, wage cuts can cure unemployment. Against this, the new Keynesian approaches argue that Keynes's work is founded on basic objections to the neoclassical story of the market mechanism. To understand the Clowcr-Leijonhufvud arguments it is necessary to take a step back to the Walrasian general equilibrium system described in Chapter 6. There we saw that, if all markets in the economy are in equilibrium, and if complete and 'perfect' competition reigns, then full output, full employment and general bliss will be the result. The problems lie in finding the equilibrium prices which will deliver this result. Walras used the device of an 'auctioneer' who by a process of trial and error - comparing offers and bids - worked it all out. This trial and error process was called<i> tâtonnement, </i>and through it the full set of equilibrium prices emerged. The problem, however, is that the real world doesn't work like <br />
<br />
180 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
that. What are the implications, then, of the absence of an 'auctioneer' and the absence of <i>tâtonnement</i>? <br />
<br />
In the first place, what happens if we are out of equilibrium? This means, by, definition, that supplies and demands of some goods arc not going to be equal. At disequilibrium prices, though, some traders will be unable to sell all of the goods, or all of the labour, that they would like to. But this must mean that their incomes - which are earned by selling goods - must also be constrained; these traders are earning less than they would like to be earning. And it follows that their demand for other goods will also be curtailed. So right away the economy has run into a demand problem - the quantities of goods which people actually can purchase are less than those they would really like to buy. Professor Cower therefore distinguishes between <i>notional </i>demand - the demand for goods which would exist if the economy was in a full-employment equilibrium - and <i>effective</i> demand, which is the amount people can actually demand, given their incomes. And it is easy to show that where anyone fails to make their desired sales, then the lowering of their effective demand in other markets will lead to 'multiplier' effects through which the initial disturbance is amplified. Unemployment, and less than full output, will be the result. <br />
<br />
This kind of unemployment follows simply from the failure of the economy to find the set of equilibrium prices at which the full-employment level of trading will take place: as Leijonhufvud remarks, 'to make the transition from Walras's world to Keynes's world, it is sufficient to dispense with the assumed tâtonnement mechanism'.[3]<br />
<br />
So we have an unemployment position characterized by thc existence of people who would like to work but cannot, <i>as well as</i> a form of unsatisfied demand for the goods these people might make. The unemployed would like to buy goods, but cannot because of the lack of purchasing power deriving from their own unemployment. There is a 'communication' failure: the unemployed have no mechanism for sending a message to firms, to say that if they were hired, they would buy goods. But in the absence of a sign that demand is increasing, firms will not increase output, and therefore will not hire more workers. The price system - which in the neoclassical theory conveys information and coordinates activity - is simply failing here. It doesn't convey <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 181 <br />
the information needed to connect potential demand with the ability of the economy to produce: <i>'The market signals</i> presupposed in general equilibrium analysis <i>are not transmitted</i>,' as Leijonhufvud puts it.<br />
<br />
Note that such a recession does not result from wages being 'too high', and it cannot be cured by wage cuts. This is because a car firm, for example, will increase output and employment only if it thinks demand is rising. An offer by workers to work for less is not, in itself, a signal that demand is increasing, and therefore will not increase overall employment. The general problem here has been described recently by Professor M. L. Weitzmann:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The market system suffers from a <i>'failure to coordinate'</i> the desired consumption and production plans of all agents because the unemployed lack the mans to communicate or make effective their potential demands. </blockquote>
<blockquote>
In a modern economy, many different goods are produced and consumed. Each firm is a specialist in production, while its workers are generalists in consumption. Workers receive a wage from the firm they work for, but they spend it almost entirely on the products of other firms. To obtain a wage the worker must first succeed in being hired. However when demand is depressed because of unemployment, each firm secs no indication that it an profitably market the increased output of an extra worker. The inability of the un-employed to communicate effective demand results in a vicious circle of self-sustaining involuntary unemployment. There is an atmosphere of frustration because the problem is beyond the power of any single firm to correct, yet would go away if only all firms would simultaneously expand output. [4]</blockquote>
These kinds of 'coordination problems', as a source of effective demand failure, are only one part of the 'new Keynesianism'. Their significance lies in the fact that they take the Keynesian attack right to the limn of the general equilibrium system, to its theory of the market mechanism and its beneficent results. It is at this point that some modern Keynesians join up with general equilibrium theorists such as Hahn (see Chapter 7) in contesting the often rather facile use by monetarists of the ideas of general equilibrium. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION </span></h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
It was suggested in the introduction to Part Two that the confrontation between 'monetarists' and 'Keynesians' over the past few years </div>
<br />
182 • TIIE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
has been a rather spurious one. This is because the real theoretical dividing lines lie nor between these doctrines but within them. When we look at the theoretical underpinnings of these doctrines it is relatively easy to trace the beginnings of such internal divergences: they concern the way markets, and the 'market mechanism' are understood. Do market systems operate smoothly and efficiently, to coordinate and harmonize the economic activities of people? Or are they clumsy and inflexible, a poor basis for economic decision-making?<br />
<br />
The issues discussed in the previous chapters may seem abstract and hardly relevant to Britain's current problems. But they arc of great policy relevancy, since politicians, policy makers and commentators are often circumscribed in their thinking about economic problems by ideas about the way they think the economy really works. In Britain the most important of these ideas has been a belief in the market mechanism. A bizarre feature of economic and political debate over the past few years has been the way in which the thirty post-war years have been labelled as years of ever increasing state intervention, with an ever increasing distortion of free markets. The 'Keynesian' policy makers of those years have been condemned as full-scale interventionists, trying to guide the economy from above, with devastating results. In fact their belief in markets was scarcely less extreme than that of the monetarists.<br />
<br />
So question one on the agenda is whether economic theory gives us any grounds for a belief in free markets, and free market economic policies, as a basis for solving our problems? The answer seems to be 'no'. Keynesian theory, and the work of some general equilibrium theorists, suggests that market economies are nor the self-stabilizing, welfare-maximizing machines which neoclassical economics would have us place our faith in. This point seems to have been demonstrated fairly conclusively, and most economic theorists would probably accept it. But where does this leave us in terms of policy, in terms of the choices which face Britain if it is to escape its current predicament?<br />
<br />
The inadequacies of free-market theories and of the policies based on them open up the question of state intervention. Both Keynesian and some general equilibrium theories indicate that an unguided economy is unlikely to perform well. But this general point does not <br />
<br />
REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY • 183 <br />
mean that we can jump to the conclusion that any particular form of state intervention is justified. Keynesian theory has very little to say on how the economy should be managed. In the past, Keyncsians have tended to support fiscal policies - essentially policies based on state expenditure and tax decisions - to maintain aggregate demand; the key idea was to maintain an 'adequate' level of demand, and then allow the economy to take care of itself.<br />
<br />
But policy interventions of that type seem to offer little in the face of the problems outlined in the first section of this book. These problems are specific ones concerning manufacturing performance, and the R & D, investment, engineering and educational inputs to that performance. Keynesian policies of demand management are aimed elsewhere; they are pitched at an abstract level which brackets out the specific problems of industrial organization which face Britain. For this reason it is necessary to explore such problems directly, without relying on policy panaceas derived from the highly abstract preoccupations of theoretical economics. It is not that theoretical economics is not important, not a worthwhile and necessary activity. It is simply that it is time for politicians and others to stop thinking that it can offer simple answers. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;">PART THREE :</span></span></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"> </span></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: red;">WAYS OUT </span></span></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>10</i></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i><span style="color: red;"><i>What went wrong?</i> </span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<br />
The account of Britain's economic crisis presented in the first part of this book was essentially descriptive: it outlined the key processes in Britain's economic decline without seeking to explain their final causes. The concern was with what happened rather than why it happened. The account had this emphasis because of the striking way in which economic discussion in Britain often fails to sort out what the crucial issues actually <i>are</i>. Frequently, debate takes the form of assertions about who caused some particular ill-defined problem, with no clarification of the nature of the problem itself, let alone of how the causal mechanisms work. So in concentrating on the problems an attempt has been made to avoid the game of naming the guilty men. Partly this is because there arc frequently no guilty men to name: many problems occur because of the structure of the economy, rather than because of particular actors within it. But also it is usually unclear how pinning the blame helps to elucidate solutions, which is what we really should be interested in.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, many of the attempts to explain Britain's predicament also imply a programme of action to solve the problems. Where the explanations arc dubious, as they often are, this can lead at best to no apparent solution and at worst to misguided solutions which are likely, if anything, to make matters worse. So before going on to look at some policy measures aimed at promoting industrial recovery in Britain a critical look will be taken at some of the main explanations which have been on offer over recent years. All of them have limitations in one way or another, and can easily constitute obstacles rather than aids to clear thinking about Britain's difficulties.<br />
<br />
In what follows, three types of explanation of the UK's problems are assessed. The first argues that British managers and industrialists <br />
<br />
<br />
188 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
have failed. They have lacked enterprise, they have lacked the technological skills of foreign managers, they have not invested enough: they are bad 'entrepreneurs'. This approach is known in the economics literature, therefore, as the 'entrepreneurial failure' thesis: it pins the blame on British capitalists.<br />
<br />
The second thesis argues that Britain's trades unions and working practises are at fault in various ways; British industry is 'overmanned'; it is strike prone, and unions arc too rigid in their opposition to the changes in work practises which technological change involves.<br />
<br />
The third thesis looks not at particular people, but at an economic process. It argues that Britain's problems stem from insufficient investment. This thesis is not necessarily separate from the previous two, in that poor management and bad industrial relations are frequently cited as the cause of low investment. But in either version inadequate investment is the immediate cause of Britain's problems, and raising investment would serve to overcome them. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">ENTREPRENEURIAL FAILURE</span> </h4>
The hypothesis of 'entrepreneurial failure' has had a long and happy run. It has been a mainstay of academic explanations of British decline since the late nineteenth century, and has also had a significant popular impact. As recently as 1982 it surfaced in a series of television programmes called - rather predictably - 'The Betrayal of Britain' on ITV; and reappeared almost immediately on the BBC, as part of the aeries of reflections on Britain, by the then head of the London School of Economics, Professor Ralf Dahrendorf. The theme has a number of variations, but a typical version runs as follows. The massive and spectacular growth of the UK economy in the early nineteenth century - the industrial revolution - was the result primarily of vigorous entrepreneurship. Go-getting owner-managers, alert to every opportunity, occasionally going to excess (eighteen-hour days for seven-year-old children, etc.) but otherwise entirely admirable, pushed Britain to World leadership. They built up fortunes, and deservedly so. But what of their descendants? They alas, lacked the go-getting spirit; frequently they just wanted to use their fortunes to become country gentlemen. They did so, and this meant that the <br />
<br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 189 <br />
enterprises which had produced-their fortunes became stagnant. Firms became moribund at the top, as the vigorous entrepreneurship of previous years disappeared. This story often ends with moralizing conclusions of the 'clogs to clogs in three generations' variety.<br />
<br />
<br />
When we get down to specifics, the charges against late-nineteenth-century entrepreneurs are as follows. Firstly, they neglected to take up technological improvements which would have raised productivity and maintained a higher rate of growth. Critics usually point to certain developments in chemicals technology, steel production and textile manufacture where innovations which were adopted elsewhere were not taken up in Britain. Secondly they lacked engineering expertise, and failed also to employ enough engineers and managers with a technical training. Thirdly, they were, unadventurous in marketing.<br />
<br />
The problem with this argument is that, although it is not difficult to find examples which seem to accord with the general thesis, its implications are rarely fully spelled out. In recent years, however, a number of economists and historians have tried to set up the argument in a rather more rigorous way. Their objections to the entrepreneurial failure line begin by asking two questions:<br />
<br />
1. What does it actually mean for the British economy to have 'failed' in the late nineteenth century? and <br />
2. What would entrepreneurs have to do, or not do, to be responsible for this? The answer to the first question is that Britain could be said to have failed if it had unused economic resources (of labour, for instance; if, in a word, there had been unemployment) which could have been used to produce extra output; or if it could have got more output with the resources of land, capital and labour it was using. In other words, if Britain had used the same inputs, were there products, activities, processes, technologies it could have used which were more productive than the ones it <i>did</i> use? The answer to the second question is that entrepreneurs would bear the responsibility for failure if they had failed to adopt these productivity-improving opportunities.<br />
<br />
Now the evidence indicates that in the last quarter of the nineteenth century, when the slowdown in growth occurred, Britain did not suffer from large-scale unemployment, of the kind that has plagued <br />
<br />
190 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
it in the twentieth century, and in general resources do not seem to have been under-utilized.<br />
<br />
This leaves the question of whether productivity-increasing opportunities existed. From the point of view of enterprises, anything , that increases productivity increases profits (at least in the short run). So the question becomes, did entrepreneurs have opportunities to make profits (by engaging in new activities, using new technologies) which they did not take up? Now the 'entrepreneurial failure' hypo-thesis normally lays emphasis on some quite specific technical missed opportunities: the open-hearth process in steel, the use of American production techniques (involving, for example, interchangeable parts) in mechanical engineering, a new technique (ring-spinning) in cotton manufacture, and the 'Solvay process' in alkali production (one of the most important of chemical processes). Added to this is a charge that British industry underemployed scientists and under-invested in research.<br />
<br />
Those who reject the 'entrepreneurial failure' hypothesis advance two kinds of answer to these charges. The first is one of concrete, practical investigation. Was it actually more profitable to introduce these new techniques? Entrepreneurs are in business to make profits, so they can hardly be blamed for not taking up new techniques unless they are foregoing opportunities for profit. Various studies have argued that, in fact, these new techniques did not offer extra profits, and so businessmen can't be blamed for not adopting them. The second argument here is that if, say, some new process (in steel, or chemicals) was more productive and hence more profitable, entrepreneurs who adopted it would have made super-profits. Others would have noticed the ringing cash registers of the successful adopter (it is difficult to keep secrets in business) and would have followed suit. So, in these industries - which had in the main a large number of firms - only one adopter would suffice to change the whole basis of the industry. The fact that no one went for these supposedly profitable processes leads one to suspect that they weren't profitable at all.<br />
<br />
On these kinds of grounds, then, British entrepreneurs of the late nineteenth century can be acquitted of blame for Britain's industrial problems. Certainly the structure of the world economy was changing, <br />
<br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 191<br />
and the British people were to suffer heavily for British economic concentration on what were becoming outmoded industries; but it seems unreasonable to blame businessmen for not foreseeing all this, for not foreseeing, as one historian has put it, 'the trick which history was about to play on them'.<br />
<br />
This is not to say, of course, that problems of entrepreneurship and the quality of management might not be important at other times and in other industries. Occasionally there is suggestive evidence. The British motorcycle industry declined at least partly in consequence of a failure to innovate. Yet this was not because the possibilities for innovation did not exist. Designers at BSA produced, in the early 1950s, new designs for bikes which anticipated the successful Japanese designs of a decade later. They were never put into production, and so there may be some evidence of 'entrepreneurial failure' in that industry. But this would require careful analysis. In general we should be suspicious of easy assumptions of managerial fallibility and entrepreneurial failure; suspicious also, presumably, of Mrs Thatcher's attempts to restore the values of Victorian entrepreneur-ship: if they never went away they do not need restoring. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE UNIONS </span></h4>
The sins of trades unions are such a perennial theme of British economic and political discourse that it is difficult to know where to start. Three primary assertions are made:<br />
- that Britain is 'strike prone', with an industrial relations climate which lowers output and inhibits technological change;<br />
- that British industry is 'overmanned', and this is the cause of low productivity growth; - that union 'monopolies' cause, like all monopolies, a rise in the price of the commodity being sold (in this case, labour)<br />
- British wage rates are thus too high.<br />
The first thing that should be said about these assertions is that it can be difficult to resolve them simply by referring to the available evidence. In each case they involve international comparisons: Britain can only be strike prone, for example, if it has more strikes than comparable countries (obviously, if all have the same strike record, <br />
<br />
<br />
192 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
then Britain's poor relative performance is not explained by strikes). But the statistics we use to make such comparisons may not be consistent, and this poses comparability problems. Leaving such problems asidc, the evidence is often ambiguous. For example, Britain is in general no more 'strike prone' than a number of other countries. It has considerably less days lost per thousand workers than, say, the USA, Italy or Canada. On the other hand, American strikes - in the ear industry, for example - arc often ritualized, semi-formal affairs, whereas British strikes arc more random, more often unofficial and more damaging in terms of lost output. Finding a balance in the often conflicting statistical evidence can be no simple matter.<br />
<br />
Such problems of evidence also appear in discussions of 'over-manning'. Although there are a number of studies which indicate that UK industries employ more workers for a given output than foreign industries, many appear to incorporate rather elementary weaknesses. A typical problem is that of 'ancillary workers', that is workers who perform some function within a plant, but take no direct part in production, such as cleaners. It is often unclear from comparative studies whether ancillary workers are included or not: thus reports claiming that British Steel uses more workers per ton of steel output than German plants tended to neglect the fact that ancillary labour was subcontracted out in the German plants - and not included in the labour figures - whereas all British ancillary workers were employed by British Steel Corporation, and counted-in. Furthermore, claims concerning 'over-manning' are only relevant if workers are using similar amounts and types of equipment; sometimes this is the case but more often it is not.<br />
<br />
Quite apart from these statistical and interpretive difficulties there arc some analytical problems. What, for instance, are strike proneness and overmanning meant to explain? We have seen in previous chapters that Britain's problems involve persistently low rates of growth: it is low growth rates of output and productivity that we should be trying to account for. But there is a crucial distinction to be drawn between factors which affect the <i>level</i> of productivity (i.e. of output per worker) and factors which affect the <i>rate of growth</i> of productivity. 'Overmanning' will affect the level of productivity: if Britain uses the same type of machines as country X, but twice as many workers, then <br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 193 <br />
the level of output per worker in Britain will be half that of country X. But the rate of growth of productivity is determined by such things as increases in capital per worker, improvements in the technical efficiency of machines and so on; overmanning will not necessarily have any impact here, and so rates of growth in Britain and country X will be the same. Similar considerations apply to strikes. Strikes and overmanning will not affect rates of growth unless they are getting consistently worse, relative to competitors. One rarely secs systematic evidence presented to this effect. It might be added, more-over, that so-called 'overmanning' does not necessarily make production in Britain more costly or less profitable. If overmanning is accompanied by relatively low wages (as it is in Britain compared with most of Europe), then overmanning may even be accompanied by cost advantages rather than disadvantages. Certainly neither strike proneness nor overmanning will suffice - at least not in the glib way they are usually deployed - as explanations of Britain's economic malaise. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">INVESTMENT </span></h4>
'Investment' is that part of current income and output which is devoted to adding to the capital stock: that is, to increasing the quantity of machines, buildings, equipment and so on at the economy's disposal. In a general way, the size of the capital stock in different countries is central to understanding international differences in productivity. The reason why output per worker in Britain or Germany or France is so much higher than in India or Ghana is not that European workers are miracle men; it is simply that European workers have a substantially greater capital stock to work with. This rather trite observation can readily be transformed into an explanation of Britain's slow growth record. Britain's output grows slowly because its capacity to produce output grows slowly; its capacity to produce output, that is its capital stock, grows slowly because it invests less than other economies. Low investment is therefore the source of the problem.<br />
<br />
Two kinds of evidence can be used to support this argument. Either we can look at rates of investment (that is, the proportion of <br />
<br />
194 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
national income used for investment) or we can look at the size of the capital stock per worker. In the long run these amount to much the same thing, since the amount of capital per worker is normally in-creased only by investing more over a period. But there are complications: a large part of the capital stock is inherited from the past, so it is not just <i>present</i> investment rates which matter, but also past rates: thus two countries may have similar investment rates now, but different capital stocks because of past investment decisions. Secondly, because the investment rate is a ratio, two countries may have the same rate of investment, but different absolute amounts of investment, and hence different sized capital stocks. If country A and country B both have investment rates of 20 per cent, but B's income is twice A's, then in absolute terms B will be investing twice as much as A. These considerations produce some analytical problems which will be outlined below. <br />
<br />
But first some of the evidence. On <i>rates</i> of investment, the statistical sources make a number of important distinctions within the overall investment figure. Firstly, they distinguish between gross and net investment: that is, between total investment (which includes replacement of existing capital goods which have worn out) and new investment (the construction of completely new plant, equipment and so on). Secondly, they distinguish between overall investment (which includes, for example, domestic houses), industrial investment (including mining, oil, construction plant) and purely manufacturing investment. Thus in comparing Britain and West Germany, we might for some purposes - such as comparing technological levels in manufacturing - be interested mainly in net manufacturing investment. If we were interested in the Keynesian problem of the total level of demand we might consider gross investment for all sectors. A typical historical comparison of investment rates is as follows: it shows that gross investment in Britain was slightly less than in West Germany or Italy. But net investment - that is, investment actually devoted to increasing the capital stock - was very substantially less, particularly in manufacturing (see table 19).<br />
<br />
In a more recent year, 1978, Britain invested about 18 per cent of GDP, as opposed to 21.5 per cent in France and Germany, and 30.2 per cent in Japan. A number of writers have taken such figures as the <br />
<br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 195<br />
<br />
Table 19. Investment rates in three European countries 1953-60<br />
<hr />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">All industry Gross investment. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">W. Germany Italy UK</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">16.3 16.3 14.5 Gross investment % of GNP<br />
14.6 14.7 8.9 Net " " " "<br />
13.3 13.8 10.7 Gross " " " " manufacturing only<br />
11.0 11.6 5.9 Net " " " " manufacturing only</span><br />
<hr />
Source: A. Lamfalussy, <i>The United Kingdom and the Six</i>, London, 1963, pp. 92 and 94<br />
<br />
<br />
main explanatory factor in Britain's slow growth: we have invested less in total, and also less in net terms (which means that our capacity to produce has expanded more slowly than competitors [7]). This approach seems confirmed when looking at investment per worker, and the amount of capital stock which each worker has to work with. In both these areas Britain appears to lag, as tables 20 and <br />
<br />
Table 20. Gross investment per head, 1974-7 ($) <br />
<hr />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 1974 1976 1971 </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1,900 2,800 3,200 Norway <br />
1,500 1,900 1,900 Sweden <br />
1,400 1,500 1,800 Japan <br />
1,400 1,500 1,700 W. Germany <br />
1,300 1,500 1,600 France <br />
1,200 1,300 1,500 USA <br />
680 750 790 UK</span> <br />
<hr />
Source: A. Maddison, 'Long Run Dynamics of Productivity Growth', Banca Nationale di Lavaro Quarterly Review, no. 128, 1979, p. 19. <br />
<br />
<br />
196 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS Table 21. <br />
Manufacturing investment per employee ($) <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> UK Neth. US <br />
1970 604 1,633 2,145 </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1974 92<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0</span> 2,743 2,785 <br />
1975 <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1</span>,006 3,108 2,947 <br />
Sweden France Japan Italy <br />
1970 1,207 1,439 1,317 751 <br />
1974 2,443 2,288 2,141 1,469 <br />
1975 2,943 2,682 1,768 n.a. </span><br />
Source: C. J. F. Brown and T. D. Sheriff, 'De-industrialization: a background paper', in F. Blackaby, ed. De-industrialization, London, 1979, p. 247<br />
<br />
21 show. Table 20 deals with gross investment per person. A similar picture emerges when looking simply at manufacturing investment (see table 21). <br />
<br />
Finally, these low investment rates appear to have resulted in low levels of assets per worker, that is low levels of capital per worker, as table 22 indicates in looking at different firms within the same industry in different countries. <br />
<br />
<i>Table 22. International comparison of assets per employee, 1976 </i><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Motor industry</span> Assets per employee (k) <br />
British Leyland 8,505 <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">11</span> Japanese firms [average] 42,020 <br />
Electrical engineering <br />
GEC (UK) 9,725 <br />
Siemens (Germany) 16,479 <br />
Hitachi (Japan) 34,680 </span><br />
<br />
Source: F. E. Jones, 'Our Manufacturing Industry — the Missing £100,000 Million' Nat. West. Bank Quarterly Review, May 1978, pp. 8-17. <br />
<br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 197 <br />
This story of low investment can be multiplied using a wide range of statistical sources, and has led many people to argue, therefore, that low investment is at the core of Britain's economic difficulties. <br />
<br />
Against it, two types of objection have been raised. The first argues that Britain's investment rates have not been notably lower than competitors, especially if we confine ourselves to the crucial category of investment in machinery and equipment. True, Britain invests less overall, but about the same in this area. A recent argument to this effect used data from OECD sources (table 23). On <br />
<br />
Table 23. Investment as % of GDP, 1978 <br />
Plant, machinery, transport Total investment <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">10.9 30.2 Japan <br />
9.2 18.1 UK <br />
9.1 21.5 France <br />
8.9 21.5 Germany <br />
7.8 18.8 Italy <br />
7.3 18.1 US </span><br />
Source: <i>Lloyd's Bank Economic Bulletin</i>, No. 33, September 1981, p. 1. <br />
<br />
directly productive investment, the argument runs, Britain is second in the league rather than at the bottom. Certainly it is less in absolute terms than other economies, because our G D P is lower, but the rates of investment compare well. The problem is that the returns from our investment seem much lower than competitors': our growth rate was much lower than, for example, the French growth rate, from a similar rate of investment. This leads the author to conclude that 'in relation to her growth performance, the U K may have been investing too much rather than too little'.[1] <br />
<br />
A number of objections could be offered to this type of argument — we could tell a different story by looking at different years, say, or we could argue that it is absolute amounts of investment that matter for productivity, rather than rates (and here Britain is distinctly lower than comparable economics), or that past rates have been very low. However, the matter rests not just on statistics: there are analytical <br />
<br />
198 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS<br />
principles involved. These lead to another argument, which accepts that Britain has had low investment, but suggests that this explains nothing. Rather, low investment is the problem to be explained. <br />
<br />
This latter argument has a number of facets. In the first place, it points out that the relation between investment and economic growth is a two-sided one. On the one hand, investment promotes growth by increasing the economy's capacity to produce output, and by increasing the productivity of workers. But on the other hand, investment <i>depends</i> on growth: it is only if demand and output are growing, and expected to keep on growing, that it is worthwhile investing in order to increase the capacity to produce. As the American economist Edward Denison has pointed out, 'a rapid increase in capacity is induced by rapid growth'.[2] Expanding markets are a primary motive for investment, so when the economy is growing only slowly, enterprises lack this crucial motive; thus low investment and low growth become mutually reinforcing. Such considerations recently led David Stout, economic director of the National Economic Development Office, to remark that 'I have come increasingly to take the view that British industrial investment behaviour has been much more of a symptom than a cause of our low growth rate.' [3]. <br />
<br />
Thus growth in incomes and demand produces opportunities for investment, and slow growth stifles such opportunities. But there is another sense in which low investment is an effect rather than a cause. 'Opportunities for investment' depend on more than fast growth: they depend also on firms and industries vigorously seeking out new activities. This search for new products and processes - a search which takes the form either of invention and innovation, or of using the available innovations of others - is what makes up the R & D activity whose importance was so heavily emphasized in earlier chapters. Research and development can be seen as the process by which areas for profitable investment are found; and from this derives the economic significance of the inadequate levels and types of R & D in Britain, which were charted in Chapter 4. This has led to an inability to find areas of investment able to generate both reasonable returns and a reasonable growth rate. To stress low investment as the source of our problems is, therefore, to put the cart before the horse. As David Stout points out, it is like telling someone who wants to be a<br />
<br />
WHAT WENT WRONG? • 199 <br />
long-distance runner to eat more (since it is noticeable that athletes eat more than other people). In fact, you need to start with training: it is only later that more food becomes necessary. From all of these perspectives, then, it is a mistake to think that low investment is the source of our problems, and a mistake also to think that simply jacking up the investment rate will solve anything. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSION </span></h4>
In developing this critique of some standard explanations of Britain's past decline and present malaise, it should not be suggested that these explanations are completely without merits. The thesis of 'entrepreneurial failure', for example, is the subject of continuing debate among economic historians. Though it would be rash to predict the outcome of the debate, since there is much research still to be done, it could be argued that the idea that the British economy 'failed' is in some sense correct. And while it is probably also true that the blame for this cannot be pinned on entrepreneurs, there may nevertheless be managerial problems in British industry in the modern era. As for trades unions, while one may feel sceptical about the 'overmanning' idea, it would be foolish to claim that they bear no responsibility for the messy problems of the British industrial relations scene. But even if they are seen as incompetently led, obsessed with short-run questions, and blind to the effects of their actions on fellow workers this hardly menu - as criticisms of the 'overmanning' thesis indicated -that they have caused long-run decline, industrial collapse, and deepening unemployment. It seems sensible to sec industrial relations problems in much the same way it was suggested we view low investment: as an effect rather than as a cause of Britain's economic difficulties.<br />
<br />
So none of these factors - entrepreneurship, industrial relations, investment - can be dismissed as problem areas within the British economy. On the contrary, they involve complex and seemingly intractable problems which must be. overcome. The point, rather, is that the stories which are based on them do not stand up as single all-encompassing explanations of Britain's decline into crisis. We should have a care, therefore, not only with the explanations, but also with <br />
<br />
<br />
200 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
the panaceas which people are prone to base on them. The most important victims of simplistic explanations of Britain's problems are Britain's political parties. The Conservative project of 'restoring the balance of power in industrial relations', and the pride it takes in what is so brutally called the 'shake-out' of labour (i.e. increased unemployment), which is alleged to have reduced overmanning, is heavily based on the naiveties of the overmanning thesis which have been criticized above. The emphasis within recent Labour programmes on raising levels of investment is similarly short-sighted, quite neglecting the fact that investment rates by themselves explain very little. The tragic consequence of all this has been a concentration by British politicians on economic issues which are to greater or lesser extents peripheral to our real and urgent problems; in effect, they have not seen the wood for the trees. If the crisis is to be resolved, therefore, future policies must abandon what might politely be called the 'indirectness' of past and present policy measures. Policies should be based on a much more realistic assessment of our future prospects, and of the mechanisms which have made them so bleak. Furthermore, they should be aimed at the most direct possible solution of those problems. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>11</i></span></h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><hr />
</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i> </i><span style="color: red;"><i>Industrial Recovery: The Policy Problems</i> </span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> </span></h3>
As British oil output declines in the late 1980s and through the 1990s, only a major expansion of some other export sector or sectors will prevent a stark decline in the level of real income in Britain. Failure to expand non-oil exports will lead to a more or less drastic depreciation of the exchange rate. Certainly this will make some British exports more competitive, but it will do so only to the extent that British costs - meaning primarily wages - do not rise in response to the increased prices of imports such as food. In addition, Britain's import bill will presumably fall as the falling exchange rate makes imports more expensive. But these mechanisms for maintaining balance of payments equilibrium have a real adjustment process underlying them, namely decreased consumption and decreased standards of living for the British population as a whole. The burden of the British crisis will then no longer be borne only by the unemployed; it will be felt by everyone. <br />
<br />
Avoiding further falls in income, and alleviating Britain's chronic unemployment, requires growth in industries capable of both exporting and competing with imports inside Britain. We cannot hope for such an expansion in service industries such as financial services, tourism and transport which have provided the bulk of Britain's 'invisible' earnings in the past, for reasons which were elaborated in Chapter 3: these are not major growth sectors in the world economy, and in each of them Britain faces intensive competition. Britain's recovery therefore depends on a revival of manufacturing, for in this sector, although competition is intense, world demand and world trade are growing. <br />
<br />
But such a revival seems very unlikely to occur as things stand: there is no sign of the large-scale increases in innovative and investment<br />
<br />
202 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
activity which would be required <i>now</i> for any recovery in the late 1980s or early 1990s (since there are significant lead times involved in most industrial manufacturing projects). Nor is it likely that such increases will occur on the necessary scale in the slowly growing British economy of the middle and late 1980s, since investment rarely expands in an environment of recession and depressed demand. Manufacturing recovery must therefore be engineered; that is to say, it must become a primary objective of economic policy. <br />
<br />
But to say that the overriding priority for economic policy in coming years should be a reconstruction of Britain's manufacturing capability begs a number of difficult questions. To what extent, for example, can such a project actually be an objective of economic policy? What kinds of economic and institutional obstacles stand in the way of carrying it out? Are the available policy instruments adequate for the task; and if not, what kinds of measures are needed? <br />
<br />
Policies for industrial reconstruction face two kinds of difficulties in economies like Britain. In the first place there are economic problems, to do with the economic mechanisms by which decentralized, private-enterprise market economics actually generate increased industrial investment and growth. Secondly, there are problems of policy instruments: the measures, powers and institutions through which the government can affect the economy, and which constrain the kinds of effects it can produce. When these economic and instrumental problems arc examined against the background of Britain's problems, the need for new types of policy and new types of institution to carry them out begins to emerge. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE ECONOMICS OF INDUSTRIAL INVESTMENT </span></h4>
If output, employment and incomes arc to grow in Britain, then the problems of low and poorly directed R &D activity, and low industrial investment, which are at the core of Britain's economic decline must be overcome. However, as we saw in Chapter 10, investment tends to follow growth in incomes and expenditure, not precede them. Enterprises invest in order to satisfy the demand generated by increases in income, they do not aim at generating income increases via investment. <br />
<br />
INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THE POLICY PROBLEMS • 203 <br />
In practical terms this means that as economies move out of recession, expanding consumption usually precedes expanding investment; these expansions of consumption demand are in effect the signal which tells enterprises that it is worthwhile to invest once again. In a market economy, in which all enterprises make investment decisions in isolation from each other, there are no general incentives other than demand expansion which will provoke investment increases. <br />
<br />
This is why there is a fundamental difference between the growth patterns of capitalist and socialist economies. Socialist economics do possess a central planning institution which tells enterprises when and how much to invest: thus economic growth in those societies is 'investment-led'. This is why, historically, they have had both a good growth and employment record, but also a poor record on the provision of consumption goods: beginning with the process of investment means that incomes are being generated (i.e. for workers in the investment projects) before consumption goods are produced as the end-product of that investment. Maintaining high investment levels has thus meant that incomes have consistently outrun available consumption goods in those societies — hence the coexistence of high growth, high employment, steady income growth, and shortages. <br />
<br />
It is another story in capitalist economics. Here, 'investment-led' growth tends to be the exception: not unknown, but rare. Rather, growth is initiated by an expansion of demand elsewhere. This need not be in consumption expenditure: 'export-led' growth has historically been very important, both in Britain (where our early nineteenth-century industrialization was fed by massive export demand) and in other economics. But in practise, particularly in the post-war era, attempts to stimulate growth in Britain and elsewhere have taken the form of policies to stimulate consumption demand, in the hope that investment would respond. The idea was to create a 'virtuous circle' of growth; increases in consumption leading to increases in investment, leading to increases in productivity and incomes, leading to further consumption increases and so on. For many years and in many countries, this more or less worked. But now we arc trapped in a 'vicious circle' of decline. The question is, how to break out of it? <br />
<br />
The main difficulty is that consumption-led growth appears not to be on the cards. This is because Britain's manufacturing performance <br />
<br />
<br />
204 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
is so poor that consumption increases have not fed through into increased demand for British products, and hence to investment in British industry. Consumption increases have been spent quite disproportionately on imports, especially of manufactures: as the British economy returned to slow growth in 1983, it was noticeable that increases in consumers' expenditure had no effect on British manufacturing output. It is therefore not open to British policy makers to engineer industrial reconstruction and investment via a consumption boom. <br />
<br />
Unfortunately, the problem is not simply that we cannot stimulate renewed economic growth by a direct expansion of consumption in the economy. It would not necessarily help to act on investment, either. It has been emphasized above that in the normal operation of capitalist market economics investment tends to follow the expansion of consumption demand. But this has not prevented governments from attempting to act on investment. On the contrary, they have adopted a wide range of measures to increase investment, ranging from tax concessions to subsidies and so on. And such measures have had some effect. The problem, however, as previous chapters have emphasized, is not simply the amount of investment, but also the productivity of that investment. The fact is that investment in Britain has not produced the same increases in output that it has in other economics: it has not been as effective. This is because the projects in which investment has been embodied have not had the degree of research and development input which generates the design and production quality on which real market success is based. The fundamental British problem lies not at the point of investment, but much further back: at the R & D stage; when products are planned and the marketing and investment strategies for them are developed. As David Stout has put it <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
In an economy in which relatively slow growth and declining manufacturing competitiveness are a century-old problem, spread across almost every sector, it is tedious but necessary to find out what has gone wrong market by market, and to direct policy to the recapturing of demand. Investment has its place in the vicious circle of slow growth, but it is not the right place to break into the circle when the productivity of existing capital is low.' </blockquote>
INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THE POLICY PROBLEMS • 205 <br />
The central tasks are in the fields of product design, technological standards, and production quality. They are, in other words, not in the area of investment but rather in the development of projects which are worthy of investment. For this, however, the available policy instruments are inadequate. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">INSTRUMENTS OF POLICY </span></h4>
<br />
These considerations suggest that the focus of economic policies for reconstruction should be quite limited - on the formation of viable projects within the manufacturing sector - yet those policies must also have economy-wide effect. Now although it is not unheard of for countries to adopt policies restricted to small groups of industries, yet which have large-scale effects - Chapter l2 describes such a policy - it is in fact unusual. Certainly Britain has no experience of such policies, at least in peace time. Rather, policies which have significant effects on the overall level of income tend to be general in scope and diffuse in impact. In the economic jargon, such policies are aggregative, meaning that they operate on the whole economy as an aggregate. In Britain, economic policy making is concentrated either on fiscal policies - which concern government tax and expenditure decisions, and are presented in the Budget each March - or monetary policy, which primarily affects interest rates. These policies affect everyone: they expand or contract incomes over the whole economy or a large part of it. Such policies form the centrepiece of both Keynesian and monetarist economic strategies, and are the main policy legacy of the doctrines discussed in Part Two of this book. Their limitations begin from the fact that they can break into the vicious circle of decline at one point only: that of demand. In practise they boil down to policies of deflation (monetarism) or reflation (Keynesianism). Now while it is true that the choice between these two strategies is an important one - it is difficult to see any recovery being sustained in a deflationary policy environment - it is also the case that the instruments with which they work are not suitable for solving Britain's industrial problems. Growth and reconstruction in specific, limited parts of the UK economy cannot be promoted with general policy instruments. What is needed is a specific policy <br />
<br />
206 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
instrument to enhance the supply potential of the manufacturing sector: an industrial policy. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">AN INDUSTRIAL POLICY </span></h4>
'Industrial policy' refers to the whole complex of measures, instruments and institutions which has as its focus the <i>structure of industry</i> (that is, the kinds of sectors and activities, and their relative sizes), the <i>composition of output</i> (the types of products being produced), and the <i>technological basis</i> of industry. Like many countries, Britain has had some sort of industrial policy for many years. What it has not had, and what it requires, is an industrial policy to which all other government policy preoccupations are subordinated; which has clearly articulated objectives for reconstruction; which is adequately funded and staffed; and which has powers sufficient to attain the objectives which are set for it. This is not, it should be emphasized, an argument for a central planning agency on the Eastern European model. It is an argument for a coordinating agency of the type possessed, in some form or another, by all of the fast-growing economies of the post-war era.<br />
<br />
The objectives of such a policy are implicit in the analysis presented in Part One of this book. If that analysis is even half-way correct, then Britain faces something akin to external collapse over the next decade or so. It may take five years to occur, it may take fifteen or even more: precise prediction would be rash. But as oil disappears, Britain's already low levels of income will decline catastrophically; the many effects of this will include an enforced contraction of such publicly funded institutions as the National Health Service. So the first objective of policy can be put very bluntly, and by itself it will be enormously difficult. It is to stave off this disaster. From this follows the primary task for economic and industrial policy: averting disaster means developing a nucleus of industries whose technological levels and product ranges will enable them to survive and prosper in the competitive trading markets of the world. As oil declines in the 1990s, they must generate an increase in manufactured exports at a rate determined by the rate at which oil revenues are falling. <br />
<br />
INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THE POLICY PROBLEMS • 207 <br />
Maintenance of Britain's income levels while oil declines is, however, but a preliminary task. Long-term prosperity for Britain requires that existing income levels are not merely sustained, but are significantly raised. So the industries which are developed in the disaster-averting phase of reconstruction must support Britain's external accounts during a second round of reconstruction, in which the technological level and productivity of a range of subordinate, domestic, industries is substantially enhanced.<br />
<br />
However, although the construction of a group of dynamic, externally oriented manufacturing industries is perhaps no more than a preliminary on the way to the solution of other, more serious problems, it is nevertheless the condition on which all else is based. The central problems for such a construction project lie in the field of product design, technological level, and standards of production. They are not in the field of investment, but rather in the area of generating projects which are worthy of investment. Of course, raising the funds and resources for large-scale investment will be difficult in itself. But first it is necessary to solve the problem of what to invest in. How can this be done? <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A RECONSTRUCTION AGENCY</span> </h4>
What is needed is an interventionary apparatus which will coordinate and fund, in collaboration with enterprises, a substantial programme of research and development in an integrated range of products. It must then translate these programmes into investment projects, which it will carry out. This work has six major aspects, which one government agency should oversee. They are: <br />
— the scientific and technological aspects of industrial construction; <br />
— the commercial appraisal of prospective projects (in which the expertise of businesses in assessing the commercial viability of projects will be crucial); <br />
— the investment programme, in particular its timing, and the integration of one project with another; <br />
— the financial aspects of investment, that is the provision of funds on an adequate scale and over adequate time periods; <br />
<br />
<br />
208 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
— labour provision and training; <br />
— finally the macroeconomic implications - it will be necessary for all these activities to be carried out within a well-worked-out conception of their macroeconomic consequences.<br />
<br />
The task of a reconstruction agency need not be - in fact, cannot be - to carry out all of these tasks itself. In each of these areas there are adequate existing institutions, some of which will need to be expanded substantially. The central function of a reconstruction agency carrying out an industrial policy should be coordination and, where necessary, direction. Where other institutions are involved, their activities should be clearly subordinated to the overall needs of the industrial policy. An industrial policy of this type, and a powerful government agency to carry it out, are perfectly feasible for Britain, as they have been for a number of successful economics over the past thirty years. Yet many in Britain have ignored examples from abroad, and have maintained serious objections to industrial policies. How valid are those objections? <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">OBJECTIONS TO INDUSTRIAL POLICY </span></h4>
In Britain there is a strong tradition that policies of industrial intervention are at best useless and at worst positively harmful; a great deal has been heard of such arguments in recent years, since they reflect the views held by the government. Three sorts of argument are advanced. The first - a very abstract one - is based on the kinds of free-market economic thinking outlined in Chapter 6. It alleges, on theoretical grounds which arc rarely adequately spelled out, that since free-market economics tend towards optimal mixes and levels of output, it is folly to intervene in them. This 'optimality' property of capitalist economics is produced by individuals and firms reacting to the prices which are established in competitive markets. Since any intervention is going to alter those prices- by definition, since it aims at doing something the price mechanism is not already doing - then it will also make the optimal mix and level of output impossible to achieve.<br />
<br />
The second argument varies this original argument by concentrating<br />
<br />
INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THE POLICY PROBLEMS • 209 <br />
on those who would make the crucial decisions in an industrial policy. These people, it is held, will be civil servants. But why should bureaucrats be better at making economic decisions than businessmen? How are bureaucrats likely to have the information, the incentives, the experience, to make better decisions than industrial professionals? In fact, it is argued, there are no grounds for thinking that they will be more efficient, more forward looking, more entrepreneurial, than existing managers. Since industrial policy involves control by bureaucrats it should be rejected on efficiency grounds.<br />
<br />
The final type of argument is more practical. It looks at industries where there has been considerable state intervention in Britain, and argues that they are characterized by inefficiency, inflexibility and waste. Industries such as steel and coal have been badly led, inflexible in response to changing circumstances, and have in consequence required massive subsidies. The story can be extended into other state-run industries such as shipbuilding and airlines; even where state-owned industries are profitable - such as British Telecom - they are argued to be considerably less efficient (in terms of providing services) than their free-market equivalents elsewhere (such as the Bell telephone network in the USA).<br />
<br />
None of these arguments seem convincing, though all require an answer. Some of the problems of the free-market approach have been spelled out in Chapter 6. In the first place, such arguments almost invariably obscure the conditions which are necessary to make free-market systems deliver the goods: those conditions are so restrictive as never to be met in practise. At the theoretically abstract level at which this argument is made, there is in fact no great distinction to be made between free-market systems and planned systems. It is possible within economic theory to show that planned, interventionist economies can deliver exactly the same results, or better, than decentralized market systems. On a purely theoretical basis economic theory produces no presumption whatsoever in favour of free markets as opposed to intervention. Moreover, there are a wide variety of theories which claim that the isolated activities of individuals can always be improved upon by non-market forms of cooperation and collaboration - these approaches tend to draw on the insights of <i>'game theory'</i> in the analysis of economic problems. Surely the <br />
<br />
<br />
210 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
reasonable conclusion here is that this argument cannot be resolved purely at the level of abstract theory.<br />
<br />
On the question of bureaucrats running industries, there is certainly a problem. It can be agreed that bureaucrats are unlikely to run industries well, though they could hardly run them worse than some of Britain's free-enterprise businessmen. But the real point is, why should it be presumed that an interventionist industrial policy requires civil servants to run industry? The function of an industrial policy must be to provide coordination, collaboration and support, not to replace one set of managers with another. This point is very well put by Christopher Freeman: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This is of count the strength of the free enterprise' argument - that only the managers of the firms in each sector have enough detailed knowledge and experience to make good decisions. The argument for the flexibility, speed and initiative of decentralised entrepreneurship remains extremely strong whether in private, public or mixed enterprises. No one should underestimate the dangers of bureaucratic delay and bungling often associated with over-centralisation. But in our view this does not absolve government from some responsibility for long-run strategy for investment and technology in each sector of the economy. Central overall responsibility needs to be combined with decentralised initiative in all mature industrial societies, whether capitalist or socialist, and we have to find a practical solution, not one based on doctrinaire positions.[2] </blockquote>
The final assertion, that state direction has in practise been a disaster in such British industries as steel, coal, airlines, shipbuilding and so on, is also problematical. Again it can be agreed that much of the British experience since the Second World War is a lesson in how not to carry out policies of industrial intervention. There have been two central mistakes. The first was to concentrate substantial economic support on essentially declining industries. Far too much in resources and effort has been devoted to a fruitless effort to prop up industries whose future was limited in any case, rather than attempting to pro-mote other industries whose output and employment would substitute for those in decline. As indicated in Chapter 2, economic growth amsists of transformations in the economy, and declining industries are as much a part of that process as emerging 'ones. The second mistake - though the word 'mistake' rather understates things - has <br />
<br />
INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THR POLICY PROBLEMS • 211 <br />
been in the quality of the interventionist decisions which were made. The disastrous histories of Concorde and the nuclear power programme do not need repetition here: the main point is that the crucial decisions were made on the basis of fantasies about Britain's economic and political place in the world, rather than according to commercial and economic criteria. In the discussion of Britain's R & D record in Chapter 4. it was suggested that these types of errors were particularly significant in Britain because of the degree of government involvement in the provision and control of R & D resources. <br />
<br />
The existence of these problems does not, however, indicate that there is no case for government industrial policy. It indicates the need for much more carefully considered programmes of such intervention. That is, the problems outlined above constitute an argument against a particular type of industrial policy; they are not an argument against industrial policy as such. Similarly, the argument for increased government involvement in, and support for research and development is not vitiated by the fact that it is the government which is largely responsible for Britain's R & D disaster in the 1950s and 1960s. The problem there lay in the principles on which the government intervened, not that intervention itself, as Freeman has pointed out: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
... the major mis-allocation of government R & D expenditures in military, nuclear and aircraft applications over the past thirty years does not invalidate the general case for government sponsorship and encouragement of new technology, based on economic as opposed to prestige and military criteria.[3] </blockquote>
Force is added to these points if we bear in mind that virtually all of Britain's more successful competitors operate active industrial policies which, to greater or lesser degrees, and in a variety of forms, are of the type which has been advocated above. If industrial policies are doomed to failure, one is therefore tempted to ask, why are they Such a conspicuous feature of the policy apparatus in West Germany, Sweden, France and above all Japan, the most successful country of the post-war period? Perhaps the simplest way of suggesting that policies of industrial reconstruction and intervention can work is indeed to point to the case of Japan, an economy which is in many respects similar to Britain. Chapter 12 consists, therefore, of a description<br />
<br />
212 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
and discussion of the activities of the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (M 1 T I) in Japan, an institution whose economic role and long-term effects have been of central importance in promoting Japan's past-war growth. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">12 </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<hr />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><i><span style="font-size: x-large;">Behind the Japanese Miracle </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
This chapter describes the contribution of economic and industrial policy, and of one industrial ministry in particular, to the extraordinary growth of modem Japan. Most of us in the West are familiar with the outlines of that growth, and with some of the paradoxes it has produced. Where 'Made in Japan' was once such a symbol of cheap, imitative and shoddy products that it became almost a catch-phrase -- connoting both inferiority and presumption - it now stands for the highest standards of quality and reliability. Where once the Americans paternally fostered Japan's post-war re-construction, they now stand aghast at the competitor which has emerged. Rates of growth of output and productivity in Japan are the highest ever recorded by a capitalist economy (they have been matched in the post-war world only by the Soviet Union) and moreover have been maintained over very long periods. Between 1960 and 1978 Japan's national income grew at over 8 per cent per year; at the end of that period annual income was over 400 per cent of its 1960 level. In 1980, while Britain's manufacturing output fell 10 per cent, Japan's rose by 6 per cent.<br />
<br />
This growth success manifests itself in Japanese domination of a wide range of markets. As we all know, in certain consumer products, Japanese firms virtually have the field to themselves: in cameras, video recorders, motorcycles, audio equipment and so on. But Japan is equally innovative and successful in industrial technologies such as machine tools (particularly 'numerically', i.e. electronically, controlled tools), special steels, chemicals, plastics, special-function ships and newer technologies like industrial robots and fibre optics. In cars and trucks, many national industries - including the British - exist only <br />
<br />
214 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
on Japanese sufferance. Japanese manufacturers voluntarily restrict their exports of vehicles, since both they and the Western governments who pressure them into it know that with unrestricted free trade they would decimate the car firms of the West. This economic growth has been based on unrelenting transformation of the economy, on the structural and technical changes which were identified in Chapter 2 as the basis of industrial growth. In the 1950s Japan produced and exported the labour-intensive products of the few consumer industries which had existed in the pre-war world and survival the chaos of the war: textiles, clothing, simple metal manufactures, shoes, toys and so on. In the late 1950s the focus of the industrial drive shifted on to more technically advanced and capital-intensive industries and products: synthetic fibres, motorbikes, ships, petrochemicals, cameras. In the 1970s these technologies were extended into new product groups such as cars and domestic appliances, as well as electrical and electronic products such as television and stereo equipment. In the late 1970s came another change of direction, into the widespread application of electronic and microelectronic technologies: video equipment, computers large and small, robots, numerically controlled machine tools. In each of these areas - with the possible exception of computers, though here the situation is still unclear - Japan is world leader. This success may hold lessons for Britain, since it has occurred in an economy which has faced and overcome problems not too dissimilar from those which confront Britain today. Like Britain, Japan is a small, heavily populated island group, with a resource base in-adequate for industrial production, and a consequent need to import food and raw materials. Like Britain, its national income is heavily dependent on its export success; like Britain it must generate a trade surplus in manufactures. Unlike Britain it has been successful in doing so. But just as Japan's success is unique, so are the policy methods and institutions which it has brought to bear on its problems. The post-war economic success of Japan has been that of an economy guided and managed by the state to a degree un-parallelled in modern capitalism. If we are to learn anything from Japan, it must be from its techniques of industrial policy. <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 215 <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">THE BACKGROUND TO JAPANESE GROWTH </span></h4>
A major difficulty in thinking about Japanese economic performance lies in disentangling the effects of particular policies and institutions (which might be transplanted elsewhere) from the specific and distinctive cultural traits of Japan (which are unlikely to be exportable). If it is the latter which are responsible for Japan's economic success, then there may be no useful lessons to be learned.<br />
<br />
Sorting out these issues of policy as against culture is very difficult for a Western observer. European images of Japan, as Endymion Wilkinson pointed out in detail in his <i>Japan versus Europe</i>, involve a very complex set of conceptions and images. There are ideas of Oriental exoticism which evoke aesthetic admiration from some and racial contempt from others; there are images of a feudal warrior society becoming a modern militarist power still embodying the samurai values of its feudal past; there are ideas of a people at once culturally refined and capable of great cruelty. Some of these conceptions are foolish, no doubt, but some more or less accurately depict features of a society with very different cultural forms and traditions.<br />
<br />
As Japan has emerged as a major world economic power there have been many who have ascribed its success to the way in which some of these supposed cultural features have been filtered into the economy. One of these factors - alleged to have a number of economic manifestations - has attracted considerable attention in the West. We might call it 'mutual commitment'. It is suggested that although Japanese society is hierarchical, having economic and social divisions like most societies, these divisions are submerged beneath a sense of cultural sameness, an identification of interests above and beyond personal interests. Great mutual loyalty springs out of this, and it has considerable economic consequences. In the first place, it makes possible consensus policies organized around a national interest. But its most striking manifestations are found within the Japanese enterprise, which has two quite distinctive features. The first of these features is the so-called 'lifetime contract', an undertaking by firms to guarantee jobs until retirement for their workers; as a formal commitment, this is almost completely absent <br />
<br />
<br />
216 - THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
from the Western industrial scene. At the same time there is an exceptional degree of loyalty by workers to the firm. Workers feel a primary loyalty to the employing company: they sing company songs, wear company uniforms, and so on. The climate of industrial and social harmony which results from all this is, we are sometimes told, the crucial determinant of Japan's extraordinary performance.<br />
<br />
To these advantages of cultural and economic nationalism and a docile workforce can be added other features, largely historical. The importance of very large corporations (<i>zaibatsu</i>), for example, which have long dominated the production system; and the close cooperation between such firms and the Japanese state which was a feature of Japanese industrialization following the Meiji restoration in 1868. It would be difficult, I think, to overestimate the importance which Westerners attach to such specifically Japanese cultural and social phenomena when they seek to understand Japanese growth. And it is not only Westerners: Professor Morishima of the London School of Economics in his book <i>Why Has Japan Succeeded?</i>, ascribes exceptional importance to the 'Japanese ethos', and traces it back to the way in which Confucian religious ideas were modified in the course of their import into Japan from China. 'While Chinese Confucianism is one in which benevolence is of central importance,' he writes, 'Japanese Confucianism is loyalty-centred Confucianism.' <br />
<br />
Now while it would be foolish to deny that cultural differences can and do have important economic effects, it does seem that there are many problems in looking to such factors as the primary cause of Japan's growth performance. Although the whole matter is a very complex one, two issues are particularly important. The first is whether this mutual loyalty, and consequently social harmony, really are a general feature of the Japanese economy and society, or whether they are in fact relatively recent developments which stand in need of explanation. The second question is whether the apparently unique Japanese enterprise relationships (lifetime contracts/worker loyalty) explain Japan's performance, or whether they could equally well be seen as effects - rather than causes - of that perfomance. More generally, do we need these 'culturalist' explanations, or can every-thing be well explained by economic factors of a rather more ordinary kind? <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 217 <br />
Consider first the question of whether Japan really is a society of mutual commitment, of consensus, of social harmony. One might question whether it is a harmonious society today - given, for example, the organized violence associated with the protests over the second Tokyo airport - but it certainly was not in the fairly recent past. The inter-war years, as Robert Reich has pointed out, <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
were marked by bitter struggles between factions in the army and navy, between the military and the large industrial groups called zaibatsu, between tenant farmers and landlords. Trade unions were suppressed by the authorities. Lifetime employment had little meaning in an industrial system in which most factory employees were young female textile operators whose working lives were two to three years, and in which half the population were poor peasants. National industrial policies were barely able to maintain stability after the financial panic of 1927, the invasion of Manchuria in tom the fascist attack on capitalism in the mos, the war with China from 1937 to 1941, the Pacific war, the economic collapse of 1946, the post-Korean war recession of 1954[1]. </blockquote>
The general picture which emerges of Japanese society prior to the beginnings of the 'economic miracle' is one of a factionally and socially divided system. It prompts the thought that it is economic growth which makes possible the emergence of a consensus, not vice-versa.<br />
<br />
Similar points might be made about the distinctive features of Japanese enterprises. Such phenomena as lifetime contracts arc made possible by Japanese industrial success, they are not the basis of it. They are not an option open to Western managers, given the insecurity of their economic environment, and the risks which their enterprises face. Lifetime contracts are best viewed as an expression, by Japanese managers, of confidence in continued growth, an expression of a belief that they do not face significant risks which threaten their corporate future. The real question is, why do Japanese corporate managers feel this way? What is it about their economic environment which promotes their confidence? And while worker loyalty may well be part of the 'Japanese ethos', we should remember that economic security, and particularly employment security, is very highly valued by people everywhere; once workers are guaranteed a degree of security, their loyalty to the firm that provides it may not be all that surprising. <br />
<br />
<br />
218 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC. CRISIS <br />
In other words we may not need notions of cultural and national solidarity, or the idea of a 'Japan Incorporated' to which they give Sc, to understand Japan's growth record. Rather we need to look at the economic environment within which Japanese firms operate, an environment which is set by the government. There are two aspects to this policy environment. The first is the general macroeconomic policy framework, which will be described only briefly. The second, much more important, is industrial policy and the activities of the ministry which carries it out. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">TIIE JAPANESE POLICY FRAMEWORK</span> </h4>
The general approach by Japanese policy makers has three distinctive features. The first is a firm rejection of some orthodox ideas on international trade, concerning both the types of goods which Japan should be producing and exporting, and the desirability of free trade as opposed to protection and import controls. The second is an equally firm commitment to the expansionary demand-management ideas associated with the economics of Keynes. This has taken the form not so much of the public expenditure programmes with which we are familiar in the West, as tax and expenditure policies designed to encourage investment (including government investment); but monetary policies also have been managed with an eye to maintaining low interest rates and easily available credit for investment. The final aspect is a kind of two-faced attitude to competition within the economy: in general the Japanese economy has combined a high degree of government intervention with the promotion of competition. Competition has been encouraged where it was felt that this would enhance efficiency; but it has been firmly discouraged where it would threaten the prospects for growth. More will be said about this - in the shape of concrete examples - below.<br />
<br />
All of these areas are of great interest, but one which deserves further comment, especially in the light of Britain's trade problems, is international trade policy. It is necessary to begin here by saying something about the basic economic theory of trade.<br />
<br />
The theory of international trade has generated perhaps the most consistently successful economic law' of all time (successful, that is, <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 219 <br />
in terms of its acceptance by economists and politicians): the law of comparative advantage. Without going into details, the theory of comparative advantage is held to demonstrate three related points. The first is that countries should not produce all the types of goods which they are capable of producing, but rather should specialize. Specifically, they should sperialize in lines of production where they have a relative cost advantage. This does not mean goods in which a country has an absolute cost advantage, but rather in goods whose costs compared to more expensive lines are lowest, compared with competitors. Secondly, these costs will be determined by the relative availability of labour and capital; specifically, countries with a substantial amount of capital should specialize in capital-intensive goods, while countries with a large volume of labour should specialize in labour-intensive goods. Finally, countries should engage in free international trade - completely unrestricted by tariffs or other barriers - in the products of the resulting specialization. If these precepts are followed, world output, consumption and welfare will be maximized. Such propositions arc, therefore, an essential underpinning for the doctrine of free trade which is such a major component of free-market economics.<br />
<br />
But though it has been widely accepted and admired (Paul Samuelson, challenged to produce an example of a proposition in any social science which was both true and non-trivial, answered, 'the theory of comparative advantage'), the doctrine has always had its critics. There have been two principal lines of objection. The first is that if it was followed to the letter it would be likely to cement countries inside an existing division of international activities which they might not find to their long-term benefit. The second is that free trade makes it very difficult to establish and build new industries where that industry already exists, at a more advanced level, in other countries. The already existing industry is likely to have a competitive advantage - since firms' costs tend to decrease both with time and with size — and there have always been, therefore, arguments in support of the protection of 'infant industries'.<br />
<br />
The free-trade doctrine was rejected by the Japanese economic administration throughout the post-war period, but particularly during the years of construction. Discussing the decisions of that <br />
<br />
220 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
period, Mr Y. Ojima, vice-minister for International Trade and Industry, said that it was<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
decided to establish in Japan industries which required intensive employment of capital and technology, industries that in consideration of comparative costs of production should be the most inappropriate for Japan, industries such as steel, oil refining, petrochemicals, automobiles, aircraft, industrial machinery of all sons, and electronics including electronic computers. From a short-run, static viewpoint, encouragement of such industries would seem to conflict with economic rationalism. But from a long-range viewpoint, these are precisely the industries where ... demand is high, technological progress is rapid, and labour productivity rises fast.[2] </blockquote>
This attempt to construct a new industrial basis for Japan's trading position in the world was accompanied by a range of import controls to protect these industries in their formative period.<br />
<br />
But while it is one thing to set out the kind of industrial objectives listed by Mr Ojima, and to provide the trade and domestic policies to back them up, it is quite another thing actually to setup the industries. That required another set of policies and a specific institution to carry them out. We turn to that now, for it is here that we can find the main determinant of Japan's growth success. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">MITI: THE MINISTRY OF INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND INDUSTRY </span></h4>
It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of the <a href="http://www.meti.go.jp/english/">Ministry of International Trade and Industry</a> (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_International_Trade_and_Industry">MITI</a>) in Japan's economic success, or the extent of its activities. MITI is responsible in Japan for the development and coordination of the main industrial sectors, and in particular those concerned with manufactured exports. Since its foundation in 1949 MITI has guided and in some cases controlled the import and use of foreign technology, the availability of foreign currency to firms, the process of research and development, the collection and exchange of technical information between firms, the number of firms in particular industries and the entry of new firms into industries, the expansion or contraction of whole industries, the availability of investment funds for firms from the Japan Development Bank and private banks, the application of monopoly and competition<br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 221 <br />
policy, the development of tax measures to promote growth, and long-range programmes of research in advanced technologies. It has also produced regular growth projections which form the basis of economic policy decisions by government in coordination with other ministries, and has played an important role in setting pay and income norms around which firms and unions negotiate.<br />
<br />
It should not be assumed from this list of activities and powers that MITI is all powerful, either with respect to firms in the economy, or other ministries. It attempted to consolidate the car industry around Nissan and Toyota, for example, and failed. It has been in repeated conflict with the government's Fair Trading Commission, which has limited some of its activities. Moreover, its statutory powers are quite limited, and there are a number of major industries in which it has had little involvement. Nevertheless, its impact has been very great. The following sections describe the objectives and functions of MITI,- its structure and its methods; finally, a concrete example of its role in one particular industry is given. <br />
<br />
<i>Objectives and tasks: </i><br />
'Industrial policy,' remarks the Japanese economist Ryutaro Komiya, is government policy that changes the allocation of resources among industries, or the levels of certain types of productive activity among firms within individual industries. It is designed to encourage production, investment, research and development, modernization and reorganization in some industries and not in others' [3] The primary objective of MITI is to use such a policy to promote economic growth of a type which will also generate a substantial balance of trade surplus in manufactures. <br />
<br />
<i>Structure:</i><br />
MITI consists of a central secretariat made up of nine bureau; each of which has a number of sub-agencies. All are well staffed by highly qualified civil servants. (Ronald Dore remarks on MITI's 'ability to recruit from the very brightest of the nation's talented graduates. Many of those recruits will have classmates in leading industrial firms, and career lines from the MITI bureaucracy can also run into leading positions in politics and public or private corporations. [4]) <br />
<br />
<br />
222 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
Five of the bureaux deal with broad industry groups: heavy industry, chemicals, textiles, coal and mining, and public utilities; they are, as Komiya remarks, 'the real makers of industrial policy'. There is a sub-agency for each particular industry within thcsc broad industry bureaux. Thus the Heavy Industry Bureau has agencies for steel, machine tools, cars, electronics, aircraft, railway equipment, and so on: the list is a very full one. As well as the five industry bureaux, there are four which deal with policy areas; they are the Bureaux of International Trade, Trade Development, Enterprises and Pollution and Safety. In collaboration with the minister's personal secretariat these bureaux work on general policy guidelines for the ministry as a whole.<br />
<br />
Corresponding to each MITI bureau and sub-agency are powerful industry associations, with representatives from all of the important firms in each industry. Each industry association has close links with the appropriate MITI sub-agency. Policy is not, therefore, made within MITI alone: it is made in a process of continuous interaction between MITI and the appropriate industry association. To this interaction businessmen bring the expertise and detailed knowledge which few bureaucracies are able to gather or assess. But MITI brings something which few businessmen are able to develop: an understanding of the technical and economic links between a developing firm or industry and other industries, and of the links between particular industries and the wider development of the economy.<br />
<br />
Finally, MITI has a number of specialist advisory councils, which bring in wider expertise on specific problems. They are, says Naoto Sasaki, 'composed of experts in matters deliberated by the respective councils, leaders of the industrial communities concerned, general consumers, leaders of the financial community, and talents from a wide variety of social strata such as workers, educators, mass media specialists and experts from the government agencies and offices concerned'.[5] The number of these councils varies: in 1970, for ex-ample, there were twenty-seven. It is generally agreed that their reports are extremely influential in the formation of policy and legislation. <br />
<br />
The final link in the structure of industrial policy formation is the <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 223 <br />
banks. The most important of these is the government-owned Japan Development Bank, but private banks with loan commitments to particular industries also take part in the collaboration between the MITI sub-agency and the relevant industry association. As we shall see, the MITI relationship with the financial system is an important mechanism of its industrial control. <br />
<br />
<i>Methods of policy implementation: </i><br />
The particular measures available to MITI have changed over the years, as the economy has grown and changed its structure, and as the problems facing it have changed also. The following account concen-trates, therefore, not so much on measures which are necessarily in use at this moment as on the broad spectrum of measures which have been used over the whole of Japan's reconstruction and growth period. Over these years MITI has had six types of policy instrument avail-able to it. They were and are as follows. <br />
<br />
1. The ability to control the import and use of foreign technologies. Over a long period, any firm wishing to use a foreign patent had to obtain MITI approval on a case by case basis. But also, during the years of foreign currency shortage, MITI had the power to allocate foreign currency for technology imports, and thus to control the types of technology which were imported. <br />
<br />
2. The ability to modify competition and monopoly policy within any sector, and thus to control the number and size of firms in that sector. Competition often increases efficiency, but it can also increase risk, which inhibits the long-term investments needed for growth. MITI has always promoted growth at the expense of competition. But at the same time MITI has promoted the diffusion of new technologies from one firm to another - even where they are rivals - if this did not threaten the stability and growth of the industry. <br />
<br />
3. The ability to enact regulations on tax incentives or subsidies in order to encourage particular industries. <br />
<br />
4. The ability to draft and enact laws concerning import controls, tariff rates, export subsidies and foreign investment in Japan. <br />
<br />
5. The ability to encourage and control particular investment projects by controlling the availability of funds for such projects, either <br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
224 - THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
through the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_Bank_of_Japan">Japan Development Bank</a> or through the private banks with which MITI has close links. <br />
<br />
6. It can carry out particular research and development projects on its own account where these are not likely to be profitable for private firms within a reasonable time period. Such work has included, for example, major computer development projects; some recent priorities will be mentioned below. These policy instruments arc used vigorously and flexibly in many combinations in a wide variety of industrial circumstances. But MITI has four basic types of intervention, and it is an important point about Japanese industrial policy that all four are operated simultaneously. <br />
<br />
The first deals with the creation and sustenance of new industries, which, to the outside observer, has probably been the central aspect of Japan's post-war growth. <br />
<br />
Next are programmes of industry modernization, especially in sectors with a large number of small firms. Here MITI has encouraged the development of large-scale plants and enterprises, to reap the productivity benefits of economies of scale. <br />
<br />
Thirdly, there are policies to control capacity in particular industries, that is, to prevent excessive investment. Examples here include oil refining, petrochemicals and steel, all of which - at least in Japan, and for complex reasons - are prone to overcapacity. In many countries - including Britain - overcapacity has forced these industries into abrupt redundancies and the scrapping of capital equipment; MITI has consciously tried to prevent the emergence of such problems in Japan. <br />
<br />
Finally, by no means the least of MITI's intervention packages concerns declining industries. Policies here include subsidies over the period while industries are reduced in size or phased out, government purchase of obsolete equipment for scrapping, aid to workers in moving to other areas, and grants and subsidies for retraining. This is crucial to Japan's continued growth for, as suggested in Chapter a, economies must manage the process of decline and de-industrialization at least as well as they manage the process of creating new industries. Both complement each other in economic growth. Constructing a new industry: an example This section draws on the work of Professor Terutomo Ozawa in describing MITI's role in the construction - or more accurately <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 225 <br />
reconstruction - of the Japanese synthetic fibre industry. It points up a number of important aspects of MITI's role. Japan developed a textile industry in the late nineteenth century on the basis of imported British technology. In the late 1930s the industry was shaken by the development of artificial fibres such as nylon and viscose in Britain, the USA and Germany. But patent information was quickly obtained from I G Farben in Germany, and during the Second World War a number of companies developed nylon production capacity. But the industry was shattered by the effects of the war: its personnel and production facilities were dispersed and more or less wiped out.<br />
<br />
Both the American occupation administration and the Japanese government saw the rebuilding of the textile sector as an important aspect of post-war reconstruction. The task became one of the first undertaken by MITI (at that time called the Ministry of Commerce and Industry). The procedure it adopted became typical of its methods: it oversaw the import of foreign production technologies of the latest type from a range of foreign producers; it carefully selected the firms which would be allowed to enter the industry; it restricted entrants in the early phase of development (so as to maintain profits and reduce risk) but nevertheless maintained a definite programme of entry (so as to maintain competition and keep firms on their toes); it provided low interest lams to firms via the Japan Development Bank and other banks; it provided R & D backup to develop and improve the imported technologies; and it also promoted the development of domestic technologies.<br />
<br />
All of these objectives are set out in MITI's policy document, published in May 1949, called 'A Policy for a Prompt Development of the Synthetic-Fibre Industry'. It is worth quoting at length, since it sets out a framework which has been followed many times since: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
1. Objectives: In the light of the export requirement of Japan's textile industry, it is imperative for the Government to foster the synthetic-fibre industry. Japan's technological capabilities in some synthetic fibres arc already near the state of full-scale commercialization with a good prospect for developing trade competitiveness. In order to achieve the output goals of synthetic fibres set forth in Japan's Five-Year Economic Reconstruction Plan, capital </blockquote>
<br />
216 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
and technological resources shall be allocated in a concentrated manner so that plants of efficient size arc constructed. <br />
2. Measures: <br />
a. <br />
As a first step, encouragement shall be given to the construction of plants for two types of new synthetic fibers, i.e. polyvinyl alcohol fibre (vinylon) and polyamidc fibre (nylon). b. <br />
One company shall be selected as a first-entrant firm for each of the fibres mentioned above, so that it can benefit from scale economics. As the market develops, other firms shall be assisted to enter the industry in tandem. <br />
c. <br />
Preferential construction funds shall be provided on the condition that once a plant is complete and successfully operated, it shall be open to visits by other companies and research institutions (at some appropriate remuneration), so that newly acquired knowledge and experience are disseminated for the development of the synthetic-fibre industry. <br />
d. <br />
In order to foster the second and subsequent entrant firms the Industrial Technology Agency of the Government shall guide and assist the development of alternative production technologies other than those used by the first entrant. <br />
e. <br />
The development of those industries which supply raw materials and intermediate inputs for synthetic fibres shall be encouraged. [5]</blockquote>
Of the two fibres one (nylon) required imported technology, while the other (vinylon) was developed in Japan. Two firms were seleettal, one for each fibre. Toyo Rayon, the firm which would produce nylon, concludtal a long-term licensing agreement with DuPont of the USA in top: for 30o million dollars it got the right to use the DuPont patent for fifteen years. But Toyo Rayon received relatively little in the way of detailed technical information — for its money it got 'only three sets of documents: patent documents, process specifications, and technical service manuals'.<i> </i>It ran into serious difficulties actually producing nylon of adequate quality. During this period, while the technical problems were being solved, MITI held off further entrants to the industry. But when Toyo Rayon moved into profit in 1934, it licensed another entrant, Nippon Rayon, this time using a Swiss technology.<br />
<br />
Throughout these years MITI encouraged domestic research into the development of new artificial fibres — to lessen Japan's dependence on foreign technology — and also authorized a joint venture <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 227<br />
<br />
between Asahi Chemical and Dow of the USA to develop a new fibre called 'Saran. At the same time it closely monitored developments abroad, the most significant of which was the development of polyester fibres by ICI. MITI quickly sponsored a Japanese producer of polyester, who made enormous profits; a number of other producers followed, using different types of polyester technology, in the1960s. The pattern of development, and the wide variety of technology sources, can be seen in table 24. The general formula is for a pioneer entrant to be protected for several years, and then for a rapid entry of further firms: <br />
<br />
Table 24. Entry pattern of Japanese firms in synthetic fibres and their technology suppliers <br />
Company <br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Toyo Rayon </span>1951 DuPont (USA)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Nippon Rayon </span>1954 Inventa AG (Switzerland)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Toyo Rayon/Teijin </span>1958 ICI (UK)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Kanegafuchi Spinning </span>1963 Snia Viscosa (Italy)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Teijin </span>1963 Allied Chemical (USA)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Kureha Spinning* </span>1963 Hans J. Zimmer AG (Germany) </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Asahi Chemical </span>1963 Firestone (USA)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Toyobo </span>1964 Chemtex (USA)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Kurashiki Rayon </span>1964 Chemistrand (USA)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Nippon Rayon </span>1964 Inventa AG (Switzerland)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Kanegafuchi Spinning </span>1967 Snia Viscosa (Italy)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Asahi Chemical </span>1969 Rohne-Poulenc S A (<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">F</span>rance)</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Mitsubishi Rayon </span>1969 AK TJ (Netherlands)<br />
& Glanztoff AG (West Germany) <br />
*merged into Toybo in 1966</span><br />
Source: T. Ozawa, <i>'Government control of technology acquisition and firms' entry into new salon: the experience of Japan's synthetic-fibre industry'</i>, Cambridge Journal of Economics, 1980, no. 4 139-47 <br />
<br />
<br />
228 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
There have been, as Professor Orawa notes, <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
many benefits from the strategy, with the staggered-entry formula particularly enhancing the Japanese firms' ability to absorb sophisticated foreign technologies. To be qualified as an early entrant, a firm had to demonstrate its technological and financial capabilities. Therefore the industrial groups competed in starching for new promising technologies conducting preparatory research, finding an appropriate foreign licenser, and securing the necessary investment funds ... the staggered-entry formula also served to strengthen the bargaining position of Japanese firms in negotiating with technology suppliers, because only one (or, at most, selected few) was permitted to enter a new industry at a time. [7]</blockquote>
Among the benefits of all this was the fact that Japanese firms were 'often able to come up with significant technological improvements' to the imported techniques. Certainly the results were impressive: Japan overtook Germany in the production of synthetic fibres in 1953, Britain in 1956, and became second only to the USA. Throughout the 19605, output grew at nearly 27 per cent per year. <br />
<br />
In the 1970s the world textile industry became more competitive and less profitable, particularly in advanced countries like Japan MITI, unlike government agencies elsewhere, did not try to fight this, and encouraged a kind of planned decline of the industry Some firms were encouraged to go out of fibres and into new pro-ducts; others were encouraged to merge to decrease the number of firms in the industry. In the face of slowing demand, the Japanese economy has moved out of fibres and into other products with a flexibility notably absent from other economies — in particular Britain.<br />
<br />
The 'MITI formula' of staggered entry, of substantial financial assistance, and of the use of a wide range of technology sources, can be traced in a number of successful Japanese industries. The above description of synthetic fibre development could easily be multiplied — well-known examples are petrochemicals, shipbuilding and alloy steels. <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 229 <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">MITI AND RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT </span></h4>
Earlier chapters emphasized the importance of industrial research and development (R & D) in generating the product and process innovations on which modern economic growth is based. How did. the Japanese economy perform in this area, and what is the role of MITI in its research and innovative activity? <br />
<br />
Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, in its period of reconstruction and then rapid growth, the Japanese economy relied heavily on technology imports; the above account of synthetic fibre development underlines this. It is important to recognize that the search for available foreign technologies is itself a research and development activity. Any search for new techniques is R & D, and the process of seeking out available and useful foreign techniques is part of this. <br />
<br />
MITI played a crucial role in encouraging firms to search for the best foreign technologies. It had two specific powers which enabled it to affect the general technical direction taken by the economy: it could control import licences, and it could control the issue of foreign currency needed to pay for imports. It set specific guidelines for technology imports: in 1950, for example, MITI issued a list of thirty-three important technologies it wished to see imported and developed. All but three were technologies for heavy industry. Almost all were geared towards industries or processes which held out the prospect of export markets. It was not until the early 1960s that the emphasis shifted to consumer goods technologies. However, it should be noted that this control over imported technologies has not been a permanent feature of MITI 's policy arsenal; it was used primarily in the 1950s and early 1960s, when Japan was very short of foreign exchange. As Japan began to generate large trade surpluses, and hence an ample supply of foreign currency, MITI's control over imports was no longer so necessary and was reduced. <br />
<br />
Of course technologies can also be developed domestically; it is important to remember, as two recent writers have pointed our, that<i> </i>'the usual emphasis on importing technology tends to obscure the fact that the Japanese economy is research intensive'. There are three significant features of this domestic R & D effort. <br />
<br />
<br />
230 • TIIE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
The first is that none of Japan's resources go into military R & D. It is claimed in Britain and the USA, both of which spend significant sums on military research, that such work produces important commercial 'spin-offs'. There appears, however, to be little in the way of convincing evidence for this frequently made assertion. Certainly the Japanese emphasis on 'civilian' R & D with a predominantly commercial orientation seems to have worked.<br />
<br />
The second distinctive aspect of Japanese R & D is that it is overwhelmingly applied to process and product development in a rather direct way, rather than being applied to basic scientific research. It is difficult to assess the effects of this, as Peck and Tamura point out in a recent Brookings Institute study of Japan: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
It is unclear ... what role the most advanced science plays in the technological change necessary for economic growth — and thus how much Japanese industrial progress is hindered by the comparatively low level of support for bask research in Japanese universities. Basic science is likely to be published extensively and to be freely available worldwide, and a long gestation period is likely to be necessary before its industrial application. Still there are suggestions that the lag between scientific discovery and economic application is growing shorter, so in developing new products it may become increasingly important to have the latest research easily available.[8] </blockquote>
But many argue that the connection between basic scientific research and high technology industrial activity is by no means as close as is often thought; consequently, Japan has got the emphasis of its R & D about right, given its economic priorities. The point here is that it is MITI which has set those priorities and is therefore responsible for the essentially pragmatic character of Japan's R & D effort.<br />
<br />
The final distinguishing feature of Japan's R & D is that a very large part of it is carried out by private firms and is funded by them; this proportion is much higher in Japan than in Western economies. Naturally this prompts questions about the impact of MITI in this apparently largely private research activity. It would be wrong to conclude, from the mere fact that firms carry out a large amount of Japan's R & D, that MITI's role is insignificant. MITI bureaux do formulate a clear picture of the strategically important sectors for the economy, and do have a role in guiding R. & D within those sectors. <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 231 <br />
The principal mechanism of control is MITI's close links with the Japan Development Bank and with commercial banks. Since Japanese firms rely to a much greater extent than their Western counterparts on bank lending as a source of finance, control of project lending by MITI is a powerful instrument in any attempt to control the direction of R & D and investment expenditure.<br />
<br />
Important research is also carried out in Japan under the direct auspices of MITI. MITI's Agency of Industrial Science and Technology carries out about 2 per cent of all industrial R & D, concentrating on projects which are likely to generate substantial technological advances for large parts of the economy, yet not be appropriate for private firms to carry out. This may be because they arc too expensive, too risky or too long term. Recent projects include desalination plants, an electric car, large-scale information processing systems, a new generation of jet engines, a remotely-controlled undersea oil drilling rig, and a comprehensive integrated traffic control system for cities. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">CONCLUSIONS </span></h4>
The Japanese economy has been unique in the post-war world both in its remarkable growth record and in the institutions through which that growth has been organized. The Japanese example seems to undercut, in a most decisive way, assertions to the effect that state intervention inevitably has damaging economic effects, and that <i>laissez-faire</i> and the free-market system offer the only hope for economic prosperity. However, it is by no means the case that an economy like Britain either could or should imitate Japan. There are complex problems in assessing precisely what impact MITI has had on the Japanese economy, let alone why it has had any impact, and whether its activities are either desirable or capable of reproduction elsewhere. <br />
<br />
There are those who argue that we cannot ascribe Japan's growth record simply to MITI's industrial policy, because we do not know what would have happened in the absence of MITI. Perhaps, without MITI, Japan would have grown spectacularly in any case. This view does not seem particularly convincing. In the first place, MITI is simply the most extreme example of a phenomenon which is found in <br />
<br />
<br />
232 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
all of the more successful advanced economies, namely a coordinating mechanism which promotes innovation and investment across industries, and reduces the risks associated with such activity. The mechanisms differ in other successful economies - Scandinavia, West Germany, France - but they are there. This coordination process is conspicuous by its absence in the really slow-growing economies of the post-war period - Britain and the USA. It should also be noted that Japanese industries in which MITI has not intervened have tended to be much less successful. In addition to the synthetic fibre case described above, there was another synthetic fibre, acrylic, for which firms did not require foreign technology or MITI support. The result was, in Ozawa's words, 'a disastrous experience from the industry's viewpoint', and it was only after MITI intervention that the industry was stabilized.<br />
<br />
Finally, one might suggest that innovation and investment decisions have their greatest overall effect when they are coordinated both as to level and direction; when they are left up to the isolated projections of firms they are unlikely to have the coherence or sense of strategy which only a central institution like MITI can impart. <br />
<br />
Then there are those who argue that Japan's economic growth has involved unacceptable social costs. MIT I has systematically diverted the resources of Japan's economy into the pursuit of industrial growth. Some argue that while this has raised incomes dramatically, it has also meant that the social welfare systems which we take for granted in the West are either non-existent or utterly inadequate in Japan. Furthermore, Japan's growth has entailed major pollution and other environmental costs. A typical assertion is that of G J. F. Brown: 'Japanese achievements have involved the sacrifice of other objectives which are so highly regarded in the West as to make emulation impossible.' This conclusion prompts various thoughts. Should we, for example, think in terms of 'emulation' at all? And does applying lessons from Japan necessarily mean the sacrifice of welfare systems and environmental protection? We should remember that Japanese growth occurred on the basis of a very poor society which completely lacked a welfare framework. There may well, therefore, have been a straightforward choice between growth and welfare; or rather, no choice at all, since welfare systems are impossible without a <br />
<br />
BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE • 233 <br />
high level of income. But this may not be a problem, or not so much of a problem, in a society in which the basic welfare apparatus is already in existence (even if it is rather decrepit). <br />
<br />
Finally, there is the question of whether Japan's industrial policies and methods are so specific to its unique culture and society that they cannot be transplanted. Ronald Dore, for example, suggests that 'the unusual features of Japanese industrial policy derive not so much from specific imitable policy measures as from the ability of the bureaucracy, closely attuned as it is to thinking in industrial circles, to generate a consensus around particular interpretations of the national interest.' Well, granted that consensus is important in economic policy, how is it generated? Do we need, for example, to refer to the notions of cultural homogeneity and nationalist sentiment mentioned earlier in this chapter? Thcy certainly are inimitable. But we should remember that consensus cannot be achieved without a framework of discussion, debate and bargaining in which goals are worked out and methods of achieving them agreed. Japanese industry certainly has such a framework in the shape of MITI; but it also has powerful policy instruments to generate growth, and this in itself is likely to promote consensus. Japanese consensus, therefore, may not be so much a cause of its growth record, as an effect of an economic policy which is recognized to have widespread benefits. <br />
<br />
Under the circumstances - namely an impending economic crisis - it seems foolhardy in the extreme to write off in advance any lessons we can learn from Japan. The evidence seems very strong: the heavily interventionist industrial policy which has been described has worked spectacularly well in the face of economic problems not unlike those which face Britain today; we should draw the appropriate conclusions. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>13</i></span></h3>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><i>Recovery </i></span></h3>
In economic terms the British people are living on borrowed time. The present situation is unstable: the inevitable slow-down in oil output in years ahead will force Britain to confront the consequences of the industrial manufacturing collapse which oil has masked. The precise course of Britain's economic future is un-predictable, and much could happen to deflect or postpone the effects of the 'manufacturing decline which was traced in the first section of this book; yet as Britain enters the mid 198os there seems no sign that further sharp decline - the crisis outlined in Chapter 5 - can be avoided.<br />
<br />
This judgement stands in contrast, of course, to the prognosis being promoted in Parliament and the media. Beginning in late 1982, and continuing throughout 1983 (reaching a crescendo during the general election in June) politicians and journalists spoke with such growing confidence of 'recovery' from Britain's recessionary plight that 'the recovery' is now as much part of the public vocabulary as 'the recession'. Two main developments fuelled this optimism. The first was a return to a slow growth in output - of the order of 1-2 per cent per year - which holds out the prospect of further non-inflationary growth. The second was the publication by the Confederation of British Industry of a series of surveys indicating increased optimism and confidence on the part of managers and business leaders, and suggesting that present growth trends will be maintained. <br />
<br />
To what extent does this recovery invalidate the arguments presented here? Has the picture of crisis been overdrawn? More specifically, does the industrial policy advocated earlier remain necessary? An industrial policy of the type sketched in Chapter 10 and concretely described through the Japanese example would require very dramatic <br />
<br />
RECOVERY • 235 <br />
changes in British economic policy making and in industrial organization. Financing it would impose real costs on most people in Britain. If recovery is in train, are the risks and costs and difficulties of such a policy still required or justified? <br />
<br />
To answer these questions, it is necessary to ask further ones, namely, what would really constitute a 'recovery' for the British economy, and would the present trends, if continued, deliver such a recovery? <br />
<br />
In the first place, the nature of 'recovery' must depend to some extent on the nature of the 'illness'. Now earlier in this book it was argued that Britain suffers from two separate types of recessionary problem. The first was a long-term decline stemming from a relatively poor manufacturing performance. This in turn has an effect of inadequate resources devoted to research and development work; moreover these resources were misapplied, being concentrated in the post-war era on nuclear power, aircraft, and military technology. This meant that only limited resources were available for the development of new products and processes in the really dynamic growth areas of manufacturing industry and trade. A lack of productive projects led in consequence to low investment and low growth; and a mutually reinforcing relationship between low growth and low R & D has ensued, the product of which has been cumulative decline. The second problem has been the 'Thatcher recession', which involved rather different mechanisms. Here, a restrictive monetary and public expenditure policy simultaneously depressed demand and raised interest rates, thus making the financial positions of firms increasingly precarious. They restricted their output, and ran down their stocks of goods, thus generating major output losses and in-creasing unemployment. These different types of recession imply different types of recovery process. <br />
<br />
From the depths of the 'Thatcher recession' recovery has required lower interest costs and demand increases (both domestic and international). With these developments, recovery is certainly possible and sustainable, and it has been this which has been occurring. Particularly if there is a continuing upturn in the world economy, output and incomes can continue to grow, and unemployment may stabilize or even fall. However, a number of reservations must be expressed <br />
<br />
<br />
236 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
about such growth. Firstly, it may well be constrained by the collapse of manufacturing over the past few years; the output losses since 1979 have not just occurred because firms have put their production capacity into cold storage, as it were, with the possibility of taking it out and starting up production again. They have also occurred because many firms have dosed down completely, scrapped their equipment, or sold it abroad (auctioneers selling used machines did very well in Britain in 1980 and 1981). We do not yet know the extent to which these closures will limit the recovery from the Thatcher recession; but the constraints may well prove very tight indeed. Secondly, in assessing recovery, we should set current growth against the background of the decline since 1979. This was very steep indeed, involving contractions of about 5 per cent in national income and about 5 per cent in manufacturing. So growth of this order is necessary simply to return to the income levels of 1979. None of the current projections indicate that this is likely, especially for manufacturing. Talk of recovery seems a little premature, therefore, even in terms of the growth which is being achieved.<br />
<br />
However, even if the output and income levels of 1979 are reached and surpassed, it does not follow that the deeper structural crisis of the British economy is being confronted. What is involved in recovery from this long-term crisis?<br />
<br />
Resolving the long-term crisis means restoring the UK manufacturing sector, in terms of its levels of output and employment, and in terms of its ability to compete against foreign manufactures both in international markets and within Britain. This improved competitiveness cannot be reduced to lower prices, which might follow from exchange rate depreciation or lower wages or both. As we have seen, competition in internationally traded goods is very much a matter of design quality, technological attributes, production standards and so on: in a word, non-price factors. Improving the non-price competitiveness of British manufactures implies overcoming the R & D problems and investment deficiencies which have been identified as the core of Britain's problems. The first indicators of recovery from this crisis, therefore, will not necessarily be increases in income and output. The primary indicators will be significant increases in research and development expenditure, and in investment in manufacturing projects. <br />
<br />
RECOVERY • 237 <br />
There is no sign whatever of this occurring on the required scale. Against the optimistic tone of the repent CBI surveys could be set a number of reports from the National Economic Development Office on problems of British industry. This office provides research and documentation for the National Economic Development Council, a tripartite organization of government, business and unions, which meets regularly to discuss economic problems and policy. NEDO reports are based on studies carried out by 'sector working parties' for individual industries; these studies are the result of research work using survey and statistical material, and the work of using survey and statistical material on particular industries. They are, therefore, rather more detailed and realistic than the CBI surveys, which are simply of 'opinion'. In general, NEDO reports give no grounds for optimism concerning the kinds of problems with which this book has been concerned. A typical extract from a recent report on the consumer goods sector reads: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are no indications from committees that their sectors can expect to increase their world market share significantly on present trends and policies. The expectations are of a hard struggle to retain existing shares and in particular to contain imports, and if action is not taken there will be a further deterioration in the position ... the committees identify the overriding requirement for improving productive efficiency, both by the greater application of existing technology and by new technological investment ... Many of these developments will entail major investment programmes - not just in capital equipment, but in R & D and in human resources. 'There is widespread concern as to whether the levels of profitability they foresee will justify or permit such programmes, together with the necessary marketing, design and product development, to be adequately funded. [1] </blockquote>
Few of the sector working parties report any positive shifts towards the R & D, investment and marketing strategies which are necessary for Britain's economic survival. Other NEDO reports on the general economic situation are equally gloomy, a prognosis shared by the Treasury documents leaked during the general election of 1983, which forecast continued low growth and the necessity for very large tax increases or cuts in public expenditure as a consequence.<br />
<br />
The crisis thus remains, and the present mild recovery will do <br />
<br />
<br />
238 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
nothing to resolve it. That can only happen through a thorough-going reconstruction of the 'supply side' of the British economy, of its technologies and the products which it produces. However, this will not occur on present policies, deeply though the Thatcher government is committed to allegedly 'supply-side'<i> </i>solutions to Britain's difficulties. The great merit of the Thatcher government is that it is the first for many years to recognize that some kind of transformation of the British economy is required; moreover, Mrs Thatcher and her economic ministers have correctly identified the source of the difficulties, in productivity and international competitiveness. They are right to emphasize that a reflation of demand will not in itself solve anything, and that income increases depend on growth in productivity and output. The tragedy of the situation is that the correct perception of the overall problem is accompanied by wildly inaccurate diagnoses of why the problems have emerged and, perhaps in consequence, policies which are at best ineffectual and at worst ludicrously in-appropriate and damaging.<br />
<br />
The ideology of <i>laissez-faire</i>, of relying only on the free play of market forces, is in practice a policy of demand deflation rather than of supply-side reconstruction. A true <i>laissez-faire</i> policy is quite impossible, as Mrs Thatcher and her ministers well know (they have not been slow to intervene in the economy, or to expand state power where their objectives have required it). However, the problem is that even the tentative steps which they have taken towards a non-interventionist, free market economy do nothing but exacerbate the long-term deficiency of the British economy, which lies in the field of strategic direction and coordination. It is the absence of effective coordination and purpose among the leading sectors of British industry, the failure of government to take the problems of industry seriously and to make overcoming those problems the core priority for economic policy, which has led Britain to its present impasse. The Thatcher government's belief in the 'market mechanism' is more extreme than that of previous governments, but it is not different in kind. All have placed excessive faith in the ability of the market to manage the job of economic and industrial development.<br />
<br />
However, the market mechanism is not working, and there is st. definite role for the government in market economics to integrate and <br />
<br />
RECOVERY • 239 <br />
coordinate the activities of the crucial sectors. This role springs from three aspects of complex industrial economies, namely the interdependence between industries, the future-oriented nature of investment, and the riskiness of large-scale R & D and investment projects. Interdependence springs from the fact that the outputs of one industry frequently form the inputs of another: the motorcar industry cannot expand without a concomitant-expansion of steel, glass, rubber, electrical components industries, etc. Making overall output plans compatible may therefore require a coordinating agency; this is particularly the case for future output plans which require investment. There is little point investing for output expansion in one industry if others are likely to remain stagnant. Finally, the uncertainty associated with large-scale projects requires that information and risks be shared. Many forms of coordinating agency are possible, but in practice the simplest and most effective are those of government.<br />
<br />
These issues are of course well known and accepted by most businesses and by all the 'sector working parties' of the National Economic Development Council. They are familiar also to the government, which carries out a wide range of industrial interventions. The real problem is not the principle of government activity in industrial development, but its scale.<br />
<br />
A policy of industrial reconstruction, of the type discussed in previous chapters, could readily be formulated and carried out in Britain. The institutions necessary for it already exist. Between them, the Department of Industry, the National Economic Development Council and National Economic Development Office, and the British Technology Group (an amalgam of the National Enterprise Board and the National Research Development Corporation, which has over 400 investments in UK industrial companies, and funds about 200 university research projects) possess the expertise required. They already carry out most of the functions of the Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry; they simply do so on a considerably smaller scale, with considerably restricted powers, and without the sense of dearly articulated strategic direction which characterizes the operations of MITI. It is perfectly feasible to expand and integrate their activities, and to link them with the leading sectors of the British industrial economy. What is primarily required is political <br />
<br />
<br />
240 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
imagination and commitment, and public acceptance of the costs involved.<br />
<br />
Those costs will probably be heavy, and will impose real sacrifices on most of the British population. Reconstructing British manufacturing industry will be neither easy nor cheap. However, if nothing is done, the costs of the impending crisis will be considerably heavier, and will not be temporary but permanent. On the other hand, if the period of reconstruction is likely to be arduous and even austere, at least we know the task can be accomplished, since there is a precedent for it: in 1940, in the face of a desperate military crisis, Britain carried out not only a military reorganization but a profound and successful economic restructuring which ensured its survival. It is going to have to do the same again. <br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">References </span></h3>
<i>Part One </i><br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 2: GROWTH AND TRADE - COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS</span> <br />
[1]. S. Kuznets, <i>Modern Economic Growth Rate, Structure and Spread</i>, London, 1972, p.1. <br />
[2]. S. Kuznets, <i>Six Lectures on Economic Growth</i>, Illinois, 1959, p. 33. <br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
CHAPTER 3: THE. LONG DECLINE </span><br />
[1]. D. S. Landes, <i>The Unbound Prometheus. Technological Change and Industrial Development in Western Europe from 1750 to the Present</i>, Cambridge, 1978, p. 276. <br />
[2]. <i>opp cit</i>., pp. 289-90. <br />
[3]. I. Drummond, 'Britain and the World Economy, 1900-1945', in R. Floud and D. McCloskey, <i>The Economic History of Britain Since 1700</i>, Vol. II, London, 1981, p. 290. <br />
[4]. S. Pollard, The Development of the British Economy 1914-1967, London, 1979, P. 54.<br />
[5]. N. Von Tunzelmann, 'Britain 1900-1945: a survey', in Floud and Mc-Closkey, op. sit., p. 240. <br />
[6]. B. W. Alford, 'New industries for old? British industry between the wars', in Floud and McCloskey, op. cit., p. 311. <br />
[7]. R. S. Sayers, A History of Economic Change in England 1880—1939, Oxford, 1967, p. 51. <br />
[8]. A. E. Kahn, Great Britain in the World Economy, New York, 1946, pp. 112- 13, quoted in Alford, op. cit., p. 320.<br />
[9]. R. Church and M. Miller, 'The Big Three: competition, management and marketing in the British motor industry, 1922-1939', in B. Supple, ed., <i>Essays in British Business History</i>, Oxford, 1977, p.173<br />
[10]. DA Alderoft and W. Richardson, The British Economy 1870-1939, London, 1969, p. 123. <br />
<br />
<br />
242 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
[11]. C. K. Hartley and D. N. McCloskey, <i>'Foreign trade: competition and the expanding international economy'</i>, in Foud and McCloskey, <i>op. cit.</i>, p. 69. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 4: THE POST-WAR BOOM </span><br />
[1]. R. C. O. Matthews, C. H. Feinstein and J. C. Odling-Smee, British Economic Growth 1856-1973, Oxford, 1983, p. 7. <br />
[2]. Lars Anell, Recession, the Western Economies and the Changing World Order, London, 1982, p. 29. <br />
[3]. Angus Maddison, Phases of Capitalist Development, Oxford, 1982, p. 130. <br />
[4]. Anell <i>op.cit.</i>, p. 41. <br />
[5]. C. Freeman, 'Technical Innovation and British Trade Performance', in F. Blackaby, ed., <i>De-industrialization</i>, London, 1979, p. 68. <br />
[6]. K. Pavitt, ed., 'Technical Innovation and British Economic Performance, London, 1980, p. 6. <br />
[7]. Sir Arthur Knight, 'UK Industry in the Eighties', Fiscal Studies, Vol. II no.1, 1981, p. 3. <br />
[8]. Freeman, op. cit., pp. 68-9. <br />
[9]. G. F. Ray, 'Comment', in Blackaby, <i>op cit.</i>, p. 75. <br />
[10]. T. de St. Phalle, <i>Trade, Inflation and the Dollar</i>, New York, 1981, p. 115. <br />
<br />
Part Two<span style="color: red;"> </span><br />
<span style="color: red;">INTRODUCTION</span> <br />
[1]. J. M. Keynes, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, London, 1974, p. 383. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 6: FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM </span><br />
[1]. Quoted in V. Walsh and H. Gram, Classical and Neoclassical •emo of General Equilibrium, Oxford, 1980, p. 142. <br />
[2]. M. Friedman, 'The Role of Monetary Policy', American Economic Review, March 1968, p. 8.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 7: MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY</span> <br />
[1]. F. T. Blackaby, 'Common sense about economic policy, Open University, Brooman Memorial Lecture 1981, p. 12. <br />
[2]. F. Hahn, review of M. Becnstock, A Neoclassical Theory of Macro-economic Policy, in Economic Journal, Vol. 91,1981, p. 1036. 3. F. Hahn, 'The Winter of our Discontent', Economica, Vol. XL, .969, p. 330. <br />
REFERENCES " 243 <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 8: KEYNES AND INTERVENTION </span><br />
[1]. Keynes, opp. cit., p. 3. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 9: REWRITING KEYNES</span> <br />
[1]. J. R. Hicks, 'Mr. Keynes and the Classics: a suggested interpretation', Economica, 1937. <br />
[2]. J. M. Keynes, 'The General Theory of Employment', Quarterly Journal of Economics, Vol. 51,1937, pp. 209-23. <br />
[3]. A. Leijonhufvud, Information and Coordination. Essays in Macroeconomic Theory, Oxford, 1981, pp. 6-7. 4. M. L. Weinman, 'Increasing Returns and the Foundations of On--employment Theory', Economic Journal, Dec. [982, pp. 787-8. <br />
<br />
Part Three <br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 10: WHAT WENT WRONG? </span><br />
[1] Lloyd's Bank Economic Bulletin, No. 33, Sept. 198r, p. r. a. E. Denison, in R. Caves, ed., Britain's Economic Prospects, London, 1969, P. 273. <br />
3. D. K. Smut, 'Capacity Adjustment in a Slowly Growing Economy', in W. Beckerman, cd., Slow Growth in Britain, Oxford, 197g, p. 103. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 11: INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY </span><br />
[1]. Stout, op. en., p. 104. 2. C. Freeman, 'Government Policy', in K. Pavitt, op. eit., p. 320. 3. C. Freeman, op. cit., p. 322. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 12: BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE </span><br />
[1]. It. B. Reich, 'Playing Tag with Japan', New York Review of Books, 24 June, '982, p. 37. <br />
[2]. Quoted in.C. J. F. Brown, 'Industrial policy and economic planning in Japan and France', National Institute Economic Review, no. 93,1980, p. 61. <br />
[3]. R. Komiya, 'Economic Manning in Japan', Challenge, May-June 1975, P. 13. <br />
[4]. R. Dore, 'Recent Trends in Japanese Industrial Policy, Political Studies, 1983, P. 109. <br />
[5]. N. Sasaki, Management and Industrial Structure in Japan, Oxford, 1981, P. 94.<br />
[6]. T. Onwa, 'Government control of technology acquisition and firms' <br />
<br />
<br />
244 • THE BRITISH ECONOMIC CRISIS <br />
entry into new sectors: the experience of Japan's synthetic-fibre industry', Cambridge Journal of Economics, 1980, no. 4, p. 146. <br />
[7]. Ozawa, <i>opp cit.</i>, p. 148. <br />
[8]. M. J. Peck and S. Tamura, 'Technology', in H. Patrick and FL Rosovsky, Asia's New Giant. Dom the Japanese Economy Works, Washington, 1976, p. 574. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">CHAPTER 13: RECOVERY </span><br />
[1]. NEDO, Report to the NEDC on the Sector Assessments, (83), t8, pp. A4, A. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Index </span><br />
Agregate demand, 159-65, 167-8. 175, 183 <br />
agraculture, 39, 60, 65, 100 <br />
aircraft industry, 72, 88-93, 211, 235 <br />
-Japanese, 220, 222<br />
airlines, 209-10<br />
ancillary workers, 192 <br />
Anell, Lars, 86 <br />
artificial fibres, <i>see</i> synthetic fibres<br />
assets, 160, 169, 178 <br />
audio industry, 40, 93<br />
-Japanese, 213-14<br />
Australia, 30, 31, 32, 62, 63<br />
Austria, 30, 31, 81 <br />
balance of payments, 44-8, 52, 83, 85, 96, 100, 102-8, 138, 172, 201<br />
-deficit, 48-9, 51-3, 59<br />
-US, 95-6<br />
Bank of England, 45-7, 48 <br />
banking system, 20, 45, 51, 771 107, 143, 162-3<br />
-Japanese, 222-4, 231<br />
basic commodities, 146<br />
Belgium, 30, 31, 32, 90, 91 <br />
Bell telephones, 209 <br />
Blackaby, Frank, 740 <br />
bonds, government, 138-9, 160, 167, 169, 178 <br />
boom, economic, 78-97 <br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
borrowing, 20-23, 96, 116, 139, 140 <br />
Bretton Woods &Tate:11,45,83-4, 95-6 <br />
British Empire, 69-70, 83 Leyland, 17, 196 Steel, 192 Technology Group, 239 Telecom, 209 <br />
Britton, Samuel, 135-6 <br />
Brown, C J. F., 232 BSA, 191 <br />
Budget, 205 budget deficit, 20, 95, 136, 137 <br />
building industry, see construction industry building societies, too Buiter, Willem, 150 <br />
bureaucracy, 209, 210 <br />
Cambridge<br />
- Economic Policy Group, 49 <br />
- school, 176-9 <br />
cameras, 87, 213, 214 <br />
Canada, 25, 30, 31, 32, 35, 63, 192 <br />
capital <br />
- account transactions, 45-7 <br />
- expenditure, 19, 23, 38, 84, 159, 178, 193-9 <br />
- free-floating, 22, 46, 105 <br />
<br />
246 • INDEX <br />
capitalist economics, It, 654, 79-85, 124-5, 149-51, 156, 203-4, 208, 213 <br />
cars, private, 86-7 see also motor industry cash, holding, 147, 167, 278 <br />
CBI surveys, 234, 237 <br />
chemical industry, 18, 41, 57, 66- 68, 72-4, 86-7, 86-6a, 130, 289- 90 <br />
German, 66-8, 70-71, 89-92 see also petrochemicals child benefit, So <br />
China, 216, 217 choice, individual, 140-44 <br />
classical economics, 136, 138, 141-2, 154, 156 <br />
closures, industrial, 28, 236 <br />
clothing industry, 18<br />
- Japanese, 214 <br />
Cower, Professor It. W., 176-80 <br />
coal industry, 33, 35, 41, 59, 68, 73-4, 194, 209-10 Japanese, 222 see also mining <br />
comparative advantage, law of, 219<br />
competition, 50, 59-70, 74, 76, 92-4, 107-8, 201, 236, 238<br />
complements, 125 <br />
computer industry, 88, la Japanese, 214, 220, 224 <br />
Concorde, ix, 23, 211 <br />
confidence, 144, 234 <br />
Conservative economists, 226-17, 137, 145, 154 zoo see also Thatcherite polities construction industries, 18, 23, 26, 33, 35, 194 <br />
consumer Pods, 40-41, <br />
flo, 86-9, 93, <br />
159, 203, 213-141 237 <br />
society, 86-7 <br />
sovereignty, 133 <br />
spending, *8-26, 36, 54, 83, la, 137, 160-63, 167, 201 <br />
coordination, industrial, 2o6-22, 222, 232, 238 <br />
cost-benefit, 129 <br />
Courtaulds, 73 <br />
credit restrictions, 20, z6, 147, 235 <br />
crowding out, 137-6 <br />
current account transactions, 45-7, 51-2 <br />
Dahrendorf, Professor R., 188 <br />
decisions, economic, 177 <br />
decline, British economic, 55I,53-j7, 9198-106, 187-zoo, 203-4, 220, 234 <br />
defence spending, 23, 7t, 89-93, 729, 137-8, 145, 211, 230. 235 <br />
deflation, 48-2, 205, 238 <br />
de-industrialization, 13, 34, 36, 41-2, 53-4, 94 <br />
demand aggregate, 156-68, 175, a; consumer, 19, 26, 40-41, 48, la-20, 123,127-9, 155.159-44, 174, 235, 238 export, 259 failure, 15843, 165, 273, 279 government, 23, 159 increased, 141-2, at, 198, 202-5 inventory, 19-22, 26, 159-63. 235 management, 165, 183, 218 notional/effective, 280, 281 Patterns. 40-41, 63-4, 84, 88, 109, 1574, 202 and supply, 118-34. 144, 155-71 162 <br />
transactions, 66 unsatisfied, 151, 18o <br />
Denison, Edward, 198 <br />
Denmark, 30, 31, 32, 91 <br />
Department of Industry, 239 <br />
depression, inter-war, 73-5, 79, 83 <br />
design, British product, 50, 53, 64, 75, 85, 87, 93, 106, 205-7, zt3, x36 <br />
devaluation, 45, 65, 1o6 <br />
developing countries, 52 150-51 <br />
dollar, US, 83, 95 <br />
Dore, Ronald, 221, 233 <br />
drug industry, Swiss, 90 <br />
Dupont, 226 <br />
dyestuffs, 66-7, 70-71, 92 <br />
East Germany, 55 <br />
Eastern European economics, 2o6 <br />
economic boom, 78-97 <br />
growth, see growth, economic policies, 109, 113-15, 128, 133-4 Conservative, 117 <br />
government, 58, 71, 8z, 84, 98. 113, 141-53 and market economics, recessionary, 103 and recovery, 201 -12 theories, 109, 113-83, zoo <br />
Economics, 175 <br />
economies of scale, 62-3, 129-30, 145 <br />
education spending, 23, 116, 183 EEC, p <br />
efficiency, economic, 41, 59, 123. 224,126,129,131-3,244-6,150, 237 <br />
134-53 <br />
<br />
INDEX • 247 <br />
electrical engineering, 66-7, 73, 75, 196 <br />
industry, 4o, 57, 86, 89-92, 239 <br />
Japanese, 214 electricity industry, 33, 41 electronics industry, go, 86, 86-62 Japanese, 214, 220, 222 Elements trieottonsie politrque pure, 127 <br />
Empire, British, 69-7o, 83 employment levels and export market, 52-61, too, 105, 202 and income, 25, 44, 122-3, *37-8, 157, 173-5 and inflation, 117, 142, 148-7 and output, 26, 34-6, 7941, 84, 102, 237-8, 141-3, 156-1, 236-4o and recession, 71-6, 263-5, 182 <br />
engineering industry, 28, 35, 59-60, 6,, 73, 90, 183, 189 <br />
entrepreneurial failure, 188-91, 199 <br />
entrepreneurs, 77, 172, 209-20 see also industrialists equilibrium general theory, 117-36, 175-82 price, 120-22, 179-80 <br />
Exchange Equalization Account, 45-6 <br />
exchange rates, 22, 26, 45-7, 54, 65, 1o5-8. 143, 201, 236 fixed, 45-6, 83-5, 95-6 <br />
floating, 46, 95-6 <br />
expansion, economic, 84-5, 132, 141 <br />
expenditure consumer, 19, 48, 239, t6o, 265, 203-4, 237 <br />
government, 29, 20-23, 26, 48, <br />
140-53, <br />
<br />
<br />
see also market economics trade, 219 <br />
Freeman, Christopher, 93, 210, 211 <br />
Friedman, Milton, 116-17, 123-4,132 <br />
full employment economic theories, 122, 26, 132, 141-50> 155-65, 173-9 post-war, 78-81, 85 <br />
futures markets, 144, 150 <br />
gas industry, 33 <br />
GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), 83 <br />
GEC, 196 general equilibrium theory, 117-34, 135-6, 140-53, 175, 177-82 <br />
General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, 455, 466, 174, 176 <br />
Germany, 58, 61-71, 73, 74-6, 105, 225 see also East Germany; West Germany<br />
glass industry, 66, go, 239 <br />
Godley, Wynne, 49 <br />
gold reserves, 45. 83, 95 <br />
goods consumer, 40-41, 80, 86-9, 93, 146, 159, 203, 213-14, 237 market, 167-8 <br />
government activity, 100, 103 bonds, 138-9, 160, 167, 169, 178 intervention, 114, 136-45, 150, 456, 165, 176, 182-3, 203-12, 214, 139 spending, 19, 20, 22-3, 26, 48, 95, 116-17, 137, 205, 237 see also economic policies; <br />
<br />
248 • INDEX <br />
expenditure (continued) 116-17, 137-44, 165, 167, 172, 183, 205, 235 <br />
explosives, 66, 92 <br />
exports, 19-22, 30, 33, 44, 55-8, 64-5, 67-70, 74, 85, 87-8, 92, 00-103, toff-8, 138, 159, 165, 167, 174, 201, 206-7 <br />
see also balance of payments; im-ports; tariff protection; trade external constraints, 48-50 externalities, 129, 145 <br />
finance, international, 22, 46, 83-5, 95-6, 105 <br />
financial journalism, 135-6, 45 services, 107-8, 20! <br />
Financial Times, 735 <br />
Finland, 30-32 <br />
First World War, economic effects, 59, 69, 70-72, 76-7, 79, 83 <br />
fiscal policy, 137, 141, 183, 205 <br />
'follower' economies, 32, 43 <br />
food imports, 51-2, 59,90, too, 130, 201 prices, 27, 70, 72 <br />
Ford motors, 75, 143 <br />
forecasting models, 141, 172 <br />
foreign currency reserves, 454, to8 <br />
exchange markets, 45-6, 58, 95-6. investment, 7o <br />
France, 25, 30, 31, 32, 55, 6t, 76, 81, 86, 89, 90. 9x, 193, 194-7, 211, 227, 232 <br />
free markets, 19, 23, 116-34, 154 and economic policies, 135-53, t82, 208-12, 219, 231, 238 <br />
growth; investment; policy; research and development <br />
Great Depression, 18, 72-7 Gross Domestic Product (GDP), 18-21, 30-33, 104, 194-7 growth, economic, 14, 24, 29-33, 37-44, 55-94, 98-100, 156, 235 and balance of payments, 48-9, IO2-3 and industry, 58-65, 74-5, 210 and investment, 192,197-8, 202-5 <br />
Japanese, 243-33 and research and development, 87-94, 139, 202-5 'sustainable', 19, 78, 235-6 and technology, 42-4, 49-51. 56-8, 6a and trade, 64-5, 70, 82 <br />
Hahn, Professor F., 148-9, :52 'handicraft' methods, 6o, 65 health spending, 1 r6, 1374 <br />
Flicks, J. R., 166-73, 176-8 <br />
Hitachi, 196 <br />
Hitler, Adolf, 76 <br />
Hong Kong, 108 <br />
household appliances, 86, 89-go <br />
housing, 18, 80, 194 see also construction industry <br />
Howe, Sir Geoffrey, 12, 36, 117 <br />
ICI, 73, 227 <br />
Ikeda, Prime Minister of Japan, 79 <br />
IMP (International Monetary Fund), 22, 83 immigration, 79 imperfect competition, 130, 145 import controls, 72, 95 see also tariff protection imports, 22, 26-7, 30-31, 36, 44-5, <br />
<br />
INDEX • 249 <br />
51-2, 58-9, 70, 75, 83, 90, 93, 100-107, 138, 201, 204, 237 see also balance of payments; ca-pons; trade income(s) disposable,3 5731178-19, 21, 26-7, 30- 3 distribution, 29, 37, 75, 86, 124, 146-7 equilibrium level, 167-73 national, 18, 23, 25, 28, 32-3, 38, 43-4, 48, 55> 61, 79, 98, 103-5, 122-3, 138, 157, 163-4, 167-9, 172, 236 ureal,544,879, roc-103, t38, *73-5, 201-12 vrw, <br />
India, 193 industrial coordination, 206-12, 218-33, 239-40 decline, 8 7_2 187-200, 205;14,72' 1903;23948-1°9' <br />
interdependence, 239 <br />
reconstruction, 14, 201-12, 239 <br />
recovery, 12-14, *8, 94, 1o8-9, 187, 201-12, 234-40 <br />
relations, 191--3, 199-200 <br />
revolution, 0-61, 188 <br />
industrialists, 109, 187-91, 234 <br />
industry collapse, 33-6, 5477 <br />
wartime, 71-2 <br />
inefficiency, 57, 74, 209 <br />
inflation, levels of, 17-19, 27, 78-9, 85.96, 105, 114, 117, 133, 138- 42, 146-8 <br />
inflexibility, 209 <br />
innovation, technological, 49-50, 75, 87-94, 97, 191, 201-2 <br />
<br />
<br />
250 • INDEX <br />
innovation (consigned) see also research and de-velopment insurance companies, 49, 160 sales of, 45, 51, 107 <br />
interdependence, industrial, 239 <br />
interest rates, 23-26, 46-7, 137-40, 747, 160-456, 178; 205, 235 and <br />
national income, 167-73 <br />
intervention, government, 114, 136-45, 150, 46, 14, 176, 182-3, 203-14, 239 <br />
Japanese, 214, 224-33 <br />
inter-war years, 72-7 <br />
Introduction to the Theory of Employment, 06 <br />
inventory, 19...21, 26, 159-63, 235 <br />
investment choices, 177, z88 <br />
gross and net, 194-5 <br />
Japanese, 278-33 and output, 58-60, 66, 69, 79, 83-5, 138-9, 201-5, 235 <br />
policy, 201-5, 235-40 <br />
public services, 17 <br />
research and development, 42-4, 50, 94 <br />
and savings, 16o-64, 167-73 <br />
theories, 138-9, 160-64, 166-73, 178, 183 <br />
and trade, 4, 53, 69,97-8, 103,707 <br />
invisible track, 45, 51-3, 201 <br />
iron industry, 59-6o, 6t, 62-3, 70, 74 <br />
set also steel industry <br />
IS-LM model, ,68, 170, 172, 779 <br />
Italy, 4, 30, 31, 32, 35, 64 81, 86, 90, 91, 94, 192, 1047, 227 <br />
Japan, 14, 25, 30, 311 32, 35, <br />
40143-4,50,55,61,194-7,211-33 <br />
culture and history, 245-4, 233 <br />
Development Bank, 223-4, 225, 231 <br />
industrial policy, 218-33, 234, 239 <br />
post-war boom, 79, 84, 89, 90-94 94, 191, 211-33 <br />
research and development, 229-33 <br />
textile industry, Si, 63, 224-8 <br />
japan versus Europe, 215 <br />
Jay, Peter, 735 <br />
Jevons, WS., 154 <br />
Kahn, Richard, 176 <br />
Kaldor, Nicholas, 176 <br />
Keynes, John Maynard, 79,46, 113- 14, 143, 154-65, 218 <br />
Keynesian economics, 14, 84, 133, 151, 166-83, 194, 205 <br />
Cambridge school, 176-9 <br />
Hicks model, 766-72, 776-8 <br />
neoclassical synthesis, 175-6 <br />
Ncw Keynesianism, 179-81 <br />
Knight, Sir Arthur, 92 <br />
Kominya, Ryutaro, 221 <br />
Kuznets, Professor S., 38, 42 <br />
labour cost of, 62. 156-7 <br />
First World War, 71 <br />
immigrant, 79 <br />
market, 48, 121-2, 132, 742 <br />
mobility, 42 <br />
supply and demand, 173-5 <br />
training, zoo <br />
Labour party economies, zoo <br />
laissez-faire, 114, 136, 143-5, 148, 150-51, 234 238 <br />
Landes, David, 66-7 Latin America, 6a, Tin <br />
'leader' economies, 32, 43, 58 <br />
Lcijonhufvud, Axel, 179-81 <br />
lifetime contracts (Japanese), 245-18 <br />
living standards, 13, 3o, 37, 38, 54, 57, 70, go, Igo, 102-3, 105, 201 <br />
Lloyd Gtxtge, David, 72 <br />
LM curve, 770-72 see also I S-L M model loyalty, <br />
Japanese worker, 216-18 <br />
luxury goods, 46 <br />
machine tools industry, 86-7, ,o6 <br />
Japanese, 214, 222 <br />
machinery, industrial, 59-64 68, 89-9m, 48, 197 <br />
Japanese, zzo <br />
Macmillan, Harold, <br />
So management, 58, 6z, 787-94 799, 209-10 sec also entrepreneurs manufacturing, 13, 17-19, 24, 26, 33-6, 50-54, 59-65g 69, 93-4, too-tog, 194-8, 201-12 <br />
decline, loo-109, 234-7 <br />
output, 19, 25-8, 30-36, 39-42, <br />
48, 55, 117, 122, 130-31 143, 151, 1567, 174, 191-3, 206, <br />
234-40 <br />
market economies, 19, 23, 82-5, 96, 114-34, 135-53, 154-9, 176, 179, 18; 202, 238; <br />
ICC also free markets interdependence, 117, 125-6 <br />
Marketing, 58, 75, 189, 204, 237 <br />
Marshall, Alfred, 154, 162, 178 <br />
Marshall Plan, 83-4 <br />
Marxist economies, 138, I54 <br />
MSS markets, 6,, 64, 69, 75, 92-3 <br />
mathematical economics, 127-8 <br />
<br />
INDEX • 251 <br />
mechanical engineering, 18, 35, 90-92, 190 <br />
mechanization, 6o <br />
metal industries, 18, 35, 68, 90 <br />
Japanese, 214 <br />
microelectronics industry, 40.44 88, <br />
Japanese, 214, 220, 224 <br />
military technology, see defence spending mining, 33, 73, 194 see also coal industry MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry), 212, 220-33, 239 <br />
mixed economies, 14 <br />
monetarism, 14, 114-34, 736, 155, 176, 182 and economic 754, 205 <br />
monetary policy, 20-23, 24, 27, 114, 137, 141, 146, 205 restrictive, 147, 235 <br />
money market, 160, 162-3, 167-74 179 <br />
supply, 19-22, 117, 137, 138, 141, 169-74 174 and monetarism,132-3, x48,151 <br />
Money, Interest and Prices, 175 <br />
monopolies, 129, 130, 145, 191-3 <br />
Morishima, Professor, 216 motor industry, 35, 41, 50, 66, 72-3, 75, 867, 89-91, 109, 130, 196, 239 Japanese, 213-14,220, 222 <br />
motorcycle industry, 50, 94, up Japanese, 213, 214 <br />
multinational firms, 66 <br />
multiplier effect, 763-4, <br />
ifio munitions industry, 74 <br />
Polley, 135-531 <br />
<br />
<br />
252 • INDEX <br />
National Economic Development Office, 198, 237, 239 <br />
Enterprise Board, 92, 239 <br />
Health Service, 17, 8o, 206 <br />
Institute of Economic and Social Research, ago Research Development Corporation, 239 <br />
nationalized industries, 17, 21 see also public services neoclassical economics, 124, 154-5, 158, z6r-7 and Keynes, 172-6, 179, 182 <br />
synthesis, 1754 <br />
Netherlands, 30. 31, 32, 90, 91, 196 new classical macroeconomics, 136-8, 143-9, 154 'new industries', 65-7o, 73-5 <br />
New Keynesianism, 179-8s <br />
New Zealand, 6z <br />
Nissan, 22i <br />
Nixon, Richard, 95 <br />
North Sea oil, 13, 21, 34-6, 52-4, 101-4, 1o8, 201, 206-7, 234 <br />
Norway, 30, 31, 3z, 195 nuclear power, 40, 89, 92-'3, 21 Is 235 <br />
nutritional standards, 8o <br />
OECD countries, 25, 88-9, 197 <br />
office machinery, 87 oil industry, 33. 34-6, 41, 53-4, 90, toe-5,108, 130, 194,201,206-7, 234 <br />
Japanese, 220, 224 prices, 21, 24, 85, 96 <br />
Ojima, Y., 220 oligopolies, 129, 130, 145 <br />
One Thing After Another, 92 <br />
OPEC price rises (1973-4), i x, 29, 96 output, 19, 254, 30-36, 39-42, 48, 55, 117, 122, 130-33, 143, 151, 156-7,234-40 • boom, 84-7, 94 composition, zo6ff. crisis, 102, 202 <br />
industrial revolution, 59-65 <br />
inter-war, 72-5 <br />
overmanning, 191-3 <br />
post-war, 7941 <br />
real, 137-8, 141-2. 174 <br />
overcapacity, 224 <br />
overdrafts, 20-22 <br />
Keynesian, 158-9, 163-5 <br />
overmanning, 188, 191-3, 199-200 074412, <br />
Professor T., 224, 228, 232 <br />
Parcto optimum, 124, 149 <br />
partial equilibrium analysis, MI, 125 <br />
patents, 226 <br />
Patinkin, D., 175 pay, see wages <br />
Peck, M. J., 230 <br />
pension funds, t39 <br />
perfect competition, 128-9, 144, 179 <br />
knowledge, 129, 144, 145, 150 <br />
petrochemicals, Japanese, 213-14, 220-24 <br />
petroleum, see oil pig iron, 6o, 62 see also iron industry planned economies, 124 see also <br />
Eastern European economics; socialist economics plastics industry, 41, 66, 87, 92 <br />
Japanese, 213 policy <br />
expansionary, 84-5, 132, rot filed, 137, 141, 183, 205 <br />
industrial recovery, 201-12, 234 <br />
instruments, 202, 205-12 <br />
Japanese, 212-33 <br />
making, 58, 71, 82-4,98, 103, 109, 113-15,128,133-4,141-53,182 <br />
monetary, 20-27, 114, 137, 141-7, 205, 235 see also economic policies <br />
Pollard, Professor S., 71-2 pollution, 129, 232 <br />
population growth, 18 post-war boom, 78-97 <br />
Pove1131, 37, 57, 78, 98, 146 <br />
power, sources of, 33, ge, 51-2, 60, 63 see also coal; cies-tricky; nuclear precision instruments, 66, 68, 72 <br />
price equilibrium, 120, 141-2, 179-80 mechanism, 117-23, 125, 129-33, 144-5, 150-56, 173-4, 180, 208 takers, 128-31 <br />
prices competitive, 63-4, 87, io6, 128-9, 236 inflationary rises, 141-2, 146.7 poSt-War■ 79, 84-5 private enterprise, 114, 152, 202 Japanese, 230 <br />
product design and quality, 50, 53, 64, 75, . 85, 87, 93, io6, 205-7, 213, 236 differentiation, *29-30 mix, 39-41, 56-7, 87, 100, 118- 19, 155, 236 <br />
production was. 174 <br />
128, 136-8, <br />
<br />
INDEX • 253 <br />
lines, gi methods, 41-2, 58-61, 74-5, 129 wartime, 71, 78-9, 240 <br />
productivity, 27-32, 73-4, 80-81, 238 <br />
growth, 38-42, 55, 64, 84, 96, 99, 189-93 investment, 193-9, 202-5 <br />
profits, 21-2, 28, 43, 64, 84-5, 99, 123,138, egg, 156, 160, 177, 190. 237 <br />
PSBR (Public Sector Borrowing Requirement), 20, 116-17 'public goods, 129, 130, 145, 146 <br />
public ownership, 137 <br />
public services, 67, 33 <br />
Japanese, 222 <br />
quality, <br />
British product, 50, 53, 64, 75, 85, 87, 93, 106, 205-7, 213, 236 <br />
quantity -constraints, 151 <br />
theory of money, 132-3, 138 <br />
quarrying, <br />
radio, 75, 86-7, 9o, 129 <br />
railway industry, 59-60, go <br />
Japanese, 222 'rational expectations' hypothesis (REI), 137, 139-44, 147-9 <br />
raw materials, 20, 44, 48, 51-2, 59, 63, 85, 100, 118 <br />
Ray, F. G., 93 <br />
Reagan, Ronald, 156 <br />
real balance effect, 174 <br />
rearmament, 73 <br />
recession, 11-14, 17ff., 78, 103-5, 138. 145-7, 155, 158-9, 162-5 <br />
long-term, 143 <br />
Thatcher, 17-23, 25, 234-7 <br />
<br />
254 • INDEX <br />
recession (continued) world, 23-5, 74, 96 <br />
reconstruction agency,‘ 207-8; see also coordina-tion, industrial <br />
Japanese, 213 industrial, 14, 201-12, 234-40 <br />
post-war, 29, 72-5, 78-9, 82-3, 240 <br />
recovery, economic and industrial, 22-14, 18, 94, 108-9, 187, 201-12, 234-40 <br />
supply side solutions, 238 <br />
Rocs Mogg, William, 135 <br />
reflation, 76, 205, 238 <br />
Reich, Robert, 217 <br />
research and development (R & D), 43-4.49-50, 66, 85, 87-941107, 139, 183, 198-9, 202-5, 207, 235-40 <br />
government financed, 88, 91-2, 98, 211 Japanese, 224-5, 229-31 <br />
university projects, 239 see also innovation; technology resources, utilization of, I 89-90 Ricardo, David, 136 Robinson, Joan, 166, 176 robots, industrial, 41, 213-14 <br />
SaMUCIS011, Paul, 175, 219 Sasaki, Naoto, 222 savings-investment relation, 160-73 Sayers, Professor R. S., 74 Say's Law, 157-8 <br />
scale economics, 62-3, 129-30, 145 <br />
Scandinavia, 55, 232 <br />
Schumpter, Joseph, 42, 127 <br />
science-based industries, 65-70 <br />
scientific research, 72, 91-2 <br />
'second-best' theorem, 145 <br />
Second World War, economic effects, 77-82, 98, 210 <br />
service industries, 0, o, WO, 201 <br />
services, 45 exporting, 103, 107-8 <br />
Shackle, G. L. S., 176 shares, ,60 <br />
shipbuilding industry, 35, 59, 6o, 73-4, 90, 209-10 <br />
Japanese, 213, 214 <br />
shoe industry, r8 <br />
Japanese, 214 <br />
'shoe leather' cost, 147 <br />
shortages, 130, 203 <br />
sickness benefit, 8o <br />
Siemens, 196 skills, 129 <br />
Smith, Adam, 123, 124, 136. £49 <br />
soap products, 66, 90 <br />
social security, 23, 80 <br />
socialist economics, II, 55, 124, 203 <br />
South Africa, 63 <br />
Spain, 86 <br />
specialization, 219 <br />
spending consumer, 19, 48, 139, 160, 165, <br />
203-4. 237 <br />
government, 19, 20, 22-3, 26, 48, 18136:1270,5: 3324-544, 165, '67, 172-1 1 <br />
stagnation, 27, 57, 64, 78, 94-7 <br />
'staple' industries, 59-61,37,4658,,1695 -0. 70. 73-7 <br />
state intervention, 14, E 156, 165, ,76, 182-3, 203-12, 214, 239 <br />
Japanese, 214, 224-33 <br />
static equilibrium, 167-71, 1774 <br />
Steam power, 41, 60 <br />
Steel industry, ar, 59-63, 68, 7o, 73 - 06009. 189, 190, 209-10, 239 <br />
Japanese, 213, 220, 222, 224 <br />
sterling, 45-6, 58, rob <br />
'stop-go' cycle, 47-9 <br />
Stout, David, 198, 204 <br />
strikes, 188, 191-3 <br />
structural changes, 39, 65-70, 214 <br />
subsidies, 204, 209 <br />
substitutes, 125 <br />
supply and demand, 118-34, 144, 155-7, 162 <br />
-side solutions, 238 <br />
Sweden, 11, 30, 31, 32, 56, 90, 195-6,zir <br />
Switzerland, 29, 30, 31, 32, go, 226-7 <br />
synthetic fibres, 66, 73, 225-8 <br />
Japanese, 214, 225-8, 232 <br />
Tamura, S., 230 <br />
tariff protection, 49, 61-2, 73, 75, 83, 219 MX, 19, 20, 23, 103, 145, 172 Cuts, 26, 48, 156, 204 government income, 116, 138-9, 183, 205 <br />
increases, 48-9, 138, 237 <br />
technological progress, n, 4,32. 37, 38-44 and economic growth, 49-54, 56- 8, 62-3.64-5,74-5.76,78, 84-5. 87-94,98, 1071124, 139, 188-9, 205-12, 236 Japanese, 213-33 spin-offs, 92 telecommunications industry, 67, 130 television, 90, 94, 129, 145, 24 <br />
137, <br />
<br />
INDEX • 255 <br />
terms of trade, 7o <br />
textile industries, a, 35, 59, 6i, 63, 65, 66, 68, 70, 73, 90, 189-912, 2244 <br />
Japanese, 214, 222, 2244 <br />
Thatcher, Margaret, :7-18, 228, 130, nat <br />
Thatcher government, 116-17, 235, 137, 238 <br />
Thatcherite policies, 12-14, 17-23, 114, 117, 156 - <br />
Times, The, 135 <br />
tourism, 45, 107-8, 201 <br />
Toyota, 221 <br />
trade cycles, 176 deficit, 48-9, 51-3, 59 foreign, 13, 17, 22-5, 37, 44-54, 82, to8, 172, 218, 236 invisible, 45, 51-3, 201 Japanese, liberalization, 20n,18-2° 83-4 restriction, 213-14 surplus, sea visible, 45, 51-3 world, 23-5, 37, 55, 60-67, 73, 83-7, too, 109, 201, 206 <br />
trade union activity, 122, 143, 145, 188, 191-3 <br />
training, 42 <br />
transport industry, 62, 68, 197, 201 <br />
Treasury leak (1983), 237 model, 172 <br />
uncertainty, future, 129-30, 143, 145, 150, 177-8, 179, 239 <br />
underdeveloped countries, Jos <br />
unemployment, II, 17-22, 27, 34, 36, 48-9, 73-81, 93-4.117, 120, 130, <br />
<br />
256 • INDEX <br />
unemployment (continued) 1320-3• 138, 145, 154156, 158-9. 162-6, a71-6,180,189099-2oi, 235 benefits, 23, 8o, 103 'natural rate', 132-3, 141-2 tvoiuntarr, 122, 147 and wage cuts, 173-6, 179 <br />
United States, II, 24, 25, 30, 31, 32, 35,43, 6o, 6r, 64, 65, 67, 69, 70- 76;95.192,19S-7p 209, 230,232 leadership of non-communist world, 82-4 steel industry, 62 technological leadership, 92, 96 textile industry, 225-8<br />
university research projects, USSR, IL 43, 213 <br />
VAT, 21 vehicles, see motor industry Wee industry, 40, 213, 214 <br />
Vietnam war, III, 94-5 visible trade, 45, 51-3 <br />
Volkswagen, 75 <br />
wage(s) <br />
84. 89, <br />
239 <br />
cuts and unemployment, 173-6, 179, as levels, 11, 21, 26-7, 121-2, 138, 142, 146, 156-8, 160, 193, =I, 236 mil 173-5 Walras, Leon, 127-34, 136, 146, 149, 151, 154, 17940 water industry, 333 Weitzman, Professor M. 18r <br />
welfare economies, 123, 124-5, 127-9, 131, 145, 149-50, 176, 382 social, Japanese, 232-3 <br />
West Germany, 11, 25, 30, 31, 32, 44, 48, 55. 86, 90-92, 192-7, 211, 227-8, 232 <br />
Western European economies, 6o, 62, 78-84, 193 <br />
Why Has Japan succeeded?, 216 <br />
Wilkinson, Endymion, 215 <br />
women workers, 71 <br />
working <br />
-conditions, 8o <br />
-hours, shorter, 38-9, 80 <br />
World Bank, 83 <br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>zaibatzu</i>, 216-17 </div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><i>Acknowledgements</i></span></span></h3>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">I would particularly like to thank Edward Bennet, who encouraged me to write theis book, and Phoebe de Gaye, who asked me questions which I struggled to answer in the following pages. For comments and help I am greatful to Setephen Hannah, of HM Treasury, and to colleagues in the Economics Department at the University of Keele: Sylvia Beech, Jayne Braddick, Pamela Davenport, Shirley Dex, Leslie Fishman, Athar Hussain, Peter Lawrence, Leslie Rosenthal and John Proops. I am greatful also to my students at Keele for heated discussions on some of the ideas presented here. A substandital part of this book was written in Norway and I would like to thank Bjorn Christiansen, Gro Fossen, Kunut Vidar Paulsen and Peter and Anne-Karin Cleaverley fro help while I was there. Finallym I would especially like to thank Kristine Bruland, my wife without whom this book could not have been written.</span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><i>Pirate Note, 2016</i></span></span><i><span style="font-size: x-large;"> </span></i></span></h3>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.clker.com/cliparts/6/f/5/8/1195437189943562677aurium_Pirate_Simple.svg.hi.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="126" src="https://www.clker.com/cliparts/6/f/5/8/1195437189943562677aurium_Pirate_Simple.svg.hi.png" width="200" /></a></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>This is scanned from a book - long out of print - and put online without permission from anyone, which is awkward. To ask the author to find time to ask their ex-publisher to find time to release copy-write for putting online would be more awkward, I think; better just to do it and hope nobody cares. If the author wants to have a go, Google Books might ask the publisher for him, and they already have a scan.</li>
<li>If permissions are a problem, then this can be posted on a free web server in Zimbabwe where a lot of copy-write law has been repealed. There's one called Flaxweb.</li>
<li>If permissions are not a problem, but the author wants it on his own web site or that of someone he knows, he just needs to cut and paste the text and then I'll take this page down. In order to distract anyone poised to complain, I will change the subject.</li>
<li>The reason for putting this book online is that post-crash economics students wonder what happened before the history they can read in Robert Peston. This book is in similar style and describes exactly what happened before we all worked in services and the balance of payments was balanced by debt. A review cropped-up on <a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2012/09/which-economic-crisis/">http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2012/09/which-economic-crisis/</a> as a reminder of it.☠</li>
<li>Example.wordpress.org would be a better place to publish. I have a free wordpress account ready to move the text there, but published the draft here where it happens to be just because I heard someone in Port Talbot talking about "industrial strategy" and thought that good economics books ought to go online as soon as possible. I will publish a forwarding link if this text moves. Publishing here on blogspot is free but fiddly. There is no way to alter the online software nor get-around it; the html parsing system allows no internal links, the saving system often fails with large files, tables boxes and horizontal lines are only writable in raw html, available free blospot domains are rare, and skills learned don't transfer to much else. The default sitemap only covers 50 dated posts and no pages at all, making pages un-indexable by default.</li>
<li>This transcript is part of a writing hobby that leads where it goes, with digressions and off-shoots. The longest page in this economics cluster is about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/bad-economics-teaching.html">studying economics at Keele University in the early 1980s</a>, on a course devised by Keith Smith's boss at the time.☠</li>
</ul>
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span class="st">It turns out that there were later editions of this book with extra chaptors. This is just the 1984 edition </span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span class="st">ISBN <span class="st">9780140225020</span></span></h4>
<span class="st"> Indexing info:</span><br />
<table id="metadata_content_table"><tbody>
<tr class="metadata_row"><td class="metadata_value"><h4>
<span dir="ltr">Business & Economics / Economic Conditions</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Great Britain</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Great Britain - Economic conditions - 1964-1979</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Great Britain - Economic conditions - 1979-1997</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Great Britain - Economic policy - 1964-1979</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Great Britain - Economic policy - 1979-1997</span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr">Political Science / Public Policy / Economic Policy</span></h4>
<span dir="ltr"> Similar to:</span><br />
<h4>
<span dir="ltr"> Robert Peston - nothing about the 1980s - <a href="https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/550163.Robert_Peston?utf8=%E2%9C%93&sort=original_publication_year">recent books</a></span></h4>
<h4>
<span dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/profile/williamkeegan">William Keegan</a> - Britain without Oil: What Lies Ahead? and <a href="https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/95181.William_Keegan">recent books</a></span></h4>
<h4>
<a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith" rel="author">Keith Smith</a> - <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith/research.html">research</a> - <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith/publications.html">recent publications</a> - <a href="https://twitter.com/KeithSm49353997">Twitter</a> </h4>
</td></tr>
<tr class="metadata_row"><td>Back cover text:<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">"Why do so many experts now believe that the British Economy is on the brink of full-scale collapse? And what can be done about it? Despite government promises and newspaper headlines suggesting 'recovery', many economists now believe that Britain has reached a fundamental crisis point from which there is no going back. In this important new book Keith Smith explains the causes and unravels the significance of Britain's industrial failure, the full gravety of which has been masked by North Sea oil. But stark choices cannot be avoided as oil output declines over the next ten years. He also shows why the orthodocies of both monetarism and Keynesianism are fast becoming irrelevant in the face of this crisis, and argues for a programme of reconstruction which can draw on the lessons of Japanese policies for economic growth. Accessable, thoroughly researched and brilliantly argued, The British Economic Crisis is essential for an understanding of the key problems facing Britain today and will become a classic in its field. ISBN 9780140225020."</span></td><td><br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0Newcastle ST5 5BG, UK53.0039516 -2.274598299999979652.9991741 -2.2846832999999798 53.008729100000004 -2.2645132999999795tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-86186339963984622862016-02-29T19:07:00.014+00:002018-10-21T10:22:58.195+01:00guerrillafruit<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
</h2>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrilla fruit tree planting: where guerrilla get apple trees</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Some shops sell fruit trees under ten pounds on short special offers each spring - maybe February. Their web sites suggest ringing a branch to check if a special offer is still in stock. Stock is kept out of doors - maybe in a small bin by the front door to see if passing.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.aldi.co.uk/store-finder"><b>aldi</b>.co.uk/store-finder</a></span> - has an offer page on their web site</li>
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://storelocator.asda.com/">storelocator.<b>asda</b>.com</a></span> - no web info<span style="color: red;"> </span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.bmstores.co.uk/stores"><b>bmstores</b>.co.uk/stores</a></span> - the ones with garden sections - see web site</li>
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/785.htm"><b>lidl</b>.co.uk/en/785.htm</a></span> - has an offer page on their web site</li>
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://www.poundstretcher.co.uk/find-a-store/"><b>poundstretcher</b>.co.uk/find-a-store/</a></span> - has an offer page on the web</li>
<li><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Fruits-/139004/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=gardeningexpertsince1855">Branded Garden Products</a></span> was cheap on ebay when checked April 2016 for people who buy enough to pay for the courier </li>
<li><a href="https://www.hotukdeals.com/search?q=fruit+trees">Hotukdeals searched for "fruit trees" during the past month</a> might find more<br />
Walk-in shops have trouble scanning bar codes for large objects and so have the same bar code for assorted trees, making stock control unlikely, so if you turn-up a week after stock has come-in, you are likely to get the trees nobody wants from a bunch of assorted - things with "cooking" on the label, pears or golden delicious. That leaves the problem of how to know the beginning date of the special offer.<br />
<br />
It's possible to subscribe to shop email offer lists via an email service like gmx that can divert all emails with certain words in them, or just to a spare email address and glance at it in spring, or to use a service like changedetection to try to monitor their web sites or facebook pages for certain words. Notes on hotukdeals suggest that February & March offers at aldi & poundstreacher are cheap. It may be possible to talk to humans in smaller shop branches like Poundstretcher and make arrangements, but that's not a tested idea.<br />
<br />
Bushes like thornless raspberry are cheaper and available at some of the pound shops. <br />
<br />
Very rare reductions of sale stock trees are worth pouncing-on but are like gold at the end of rainbows.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: purple;"><b>Explanatory Note:</b></span><br />
<fieldset>
<span style="color: purple;">So far, so good but there is a list of things I do not know headed <i>"guerrilla do not know"</i> further down: use control+F on most browsers to find it. After seeing trailers for Tarzan, I think I have an idea how guerrillas would speak if they could, and sometimes adopt the style in a tokenistic way or to provide positive images as some equal opportunities trainers suggest. Dogs horses and other animals are welcome to try to read this as well but I doubt they will be able to plant trees because they are smaller or have hooves.</span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
B&Q sell the odd little fruit tree all year and very occasionally table of clearance-price fruit trees, <a href="https://www.diy.com/diy/diamond-club/">which are cheaper if you look over 60</a> and get 10% off on Wednesdays with a special card. Stressful jobs and an unhealthy lifestyle help. Burgers. Addictive behaviour. Rough sleeping. Time inside. My partner - an ex teacher - got a clearance-price tree at £8 or £7.20 with a discount card; I don't know how rare that clearance price is, but the special card for white haired people is well known to anyone with white hair who goes to B&Q; a specially employed silverback pounces and says "do you have one of our Wednesday discount cards?". Those who have a spare email address for junk emails also get online accounts of transactions, which are useful for silverback guerillas who don't want to scan receipts.<br />
<br />Grafting is what people do if they want to make a living at this. If anyone is near SW14 8BP, I can lend special grafting pliers which I have never used but are meant to cut twigs in some V-shaped way so they are more likely to grow if bandaged together.<br /><br />
Norfolk's <a href="http://www.sandylanenursery.co.uk/catalogue-retail-2015.html">sandylanenursery.co.uk/catalogue-retail-2015.html</a> has offers on grafted bare root fruit trees usually only open to regular wholesale customers this spring 2016. No details online. Ian Sturrock and Son's youtube videos on grafting mention that a delivery of 1,000 bits of rootstock in bushels of 50 cost about 60p each at the time of the video, plus VAT and delivery, and rising to £2 each for smaller wholesale batches, and plus the time spent grafting because they're sold as stalks for grafting rather than as usable fruit trees. The supplier was Frank P Mathews. <br />
<br />
Warwickshire's mail-order-only firm, <a href="http://www.gb-online.co.uk/">http://www.gb-online.co.uk/</a> offers £2 rootstock and a wide range of fruit trees or mixed special offers on top of £7.50 delivery, and another trading name on ebay. Offers are often for future delivery at a fixed time of year.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.homebase.co.uk/en/static/AjaxStoreLocatorDisplayView?">Homebase</a> had £10 fruit trees and might be able to order the disease-resistant Egremont Russet or Spartan varieties or have them in stock. The trees are twice the price online but there used to be a regular three-for-two bare root fruit trees offer which brought the cost back down again if you value delivery at a tenner. Once in a blue moon - like when they want to clear space for Christmas trees or there's a blizzard - trees left on the shelves might be reduced under £10. That's mingey pair cherry and cooking apple trees that need adopting, or ones the new manager reduces by-mistake instead of watering. Moneysavingexpert has theories about how staff are instructed to allow haggling, if you get a medium-ranking one on a quiet day and ask if they'll do 10% off for buying two or three trees. It says that Homebase staff are allowed quite a bit of haggle.<br />
<br />
Ebay sometimes has spring-optimist sellers who think they can pay for a tree, ebay fees, paypal fees, and a courier for £10 or under. Searching "Distance: nearest first" and "price plus postage and packing: lowest first" works on the classification for<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a _sp="p2047675.l2706" class="thrd" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Garden-Patio-/159912/i.html" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name"><br />
Garden & Patio</span></a>><a _sp="p2047675.l2706" class="thrd" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Plants-Seeds-Bulbs-/181003/i.html" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Plants, Seeds & Bulbs</span></a>><a _sp="p2047675.l2706" class="thrd" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Plants-Seedlings-/19617/i.html" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Plants & Seedlings</span></a>><a _sp="p2047675.l2706" class="scnd" href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Fruits-/139004/i.html" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Fruits</span></a></span></span></span><br />
<table style="width: 100%px;"><tbody>
<tr><td></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
This is the same link with a search for <a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Fruits-/139004/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Tree&_sop=15">price plus postage <span style="font-size: small;">&</span> packing, lowest first</a>.<br />
Searching this April 2016, there were offers after the first page or so. A search for Distance > Nearest First might get more locally-adapted and healthier trees of there are any. The ones available by mail order look small and likely to need a good spot to grow in for the first year or two.<br />
<br />
The cheapest seller on Amazon has trees delivered for not much more than the Homebase offer, but more spindly - a bit like Lidl and Aldi by the look of the photo. Groupon often have bulk offers from garden4less who have appeared on Rogue Traders apparently. Talking of which, I suppose it's rude to nab the odd pencil-thin new twig from someone else's apple tree, but a note on trashnothing or streetbank offering to collect apple tree prunings might get a reply, specially if you offer to prune the tree. That just leaves the job of buying rootstock or grafting onto something that comes to hand.<br />
<br />
People who want traditional orchard varieties - <a href="https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants">maybe restoring traditional orchards with a countryside stewardship grant</a> - might find local varieties and sellers via <a href="http://orchardnetwork.org.uk/">Orchardnetwork.org.uk</a> > <a href="http://orchardnetwork.org.uk/content/about-orchards">about-orchards</a> > <a href="http://orchardnetwork.org.uk/content/fruit-varieties">fruit-varieties</a> including suggested sellers. There's a free offer and request map on <a href="http://www.orchardmarketplace.org.uk/">Orchardmarketplace.org.uk</a><br />
Just from googling, ten trees for a bit over ten pounds each plus the same again for delivery come from Devon's Talaton plants incorporating adamsappletrees.co.uk. They are geared to small wholesale orders and other similar nursaries - such as one you can get to for collection of pre-paid trees by appointment - might try to match prices. <i>"As an example a tree can cost you as little as £8.00 for orders of more than 25 trees with further discounts on orders over £500"</i>, plus 20% VAT and delivery, says their web site. <a href="http://www.iansturrockandsons.co.uk/">Ian Sturrock and Sons</a> of Bangor have been known to reduce some common varieties to £11 + VAT + the same again for delivery at the end of March. There's a link to some of their videos at the bottom of this page.<br />
<br />
People who have done all this before are more keen to promote variety and local varieties and reduce blight. Orangepippin fruit trees are expensive but their web site compares disease resistance snd suggests varieties like Egremont Russet, Spartan and Bardsley, or what ever is healthiest in a particular part of the UK such as in towns or soils or temperatures or clusters of disease. This can be done even more cheaply by an expert: simply graft twigs from a healthy tree onto anything that can take the graft, but it takes a bit of skill and courage I guess. The cost of too many people taking a twig from a public tree on fallingfruit.org is high. Failed grafting mistakes look bad.</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrilla orchard space</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
Councils, the ministry of transport and others have forgotten flower beds and verges and ticky-tacky where something can be planted and nobody cares - you just get a funny look from passers-by while you are doing it. Even the car parks round garden centres are in need of a few fruit trees. <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/property/gardening/incredible-edible-guerrilla-gardeners-are-planting-veg-for-the-masses-in-west-yorkshire-8657717.html">Todmorden is a hotbed according to the Independant</a>. <br />
<br />
I've planted 4 trees in a graveyard, of which one was pulled-up or died and was left there, three in a wood of which the most public two might have gone and the other remains, one on busy tow-path near allotments, which was uprooted and taken, and several in a forgotten council flower bed at the end of my road. One of them turned-out to be in the shadow of another tree but the others are OK. I've left labels on the trees so that people don't pull them up by mistake, but the same labels encourage people to pull them up deliberately. Generally, I made a point investing not too much money or energy into each plant - I planted the cheapest possible trees in the quickest possible time and when I needed an excuse for a walk - so I didn't feel too grieved by the plants that didn't last.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/logos/doodles/2016/first-day-of-spring-2016-northern-hemisphere-5727786629070848.4-hp.gif" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="251" src="https://www.google.co.uk/logos/doodles/2016/first-day-of-spring-2016-northern-hemisphere-5727786629070848.4-hp.gif" width="640" /></a></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrillas use tools to plant fruit trees</span></h3>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSi5cBSB6qALipXec4tQ22RtmJbhKyrSjBeKWYuK9COEY3oS9iwvBLhbb3Dbs8uC_TSM3famvITDDQGAGYe95fUlvsti76XkohV-ZS7-OkIi66uSwxmnYlTeG6MaNpo0b7UqDm2Uk-i-Nc/s1600/100190_0b823d5d465c47688730%255B1%255D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="guerilla fruit tree planting: picture of the roots of a cheap tree" border="0" height="255" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSi5cBSB6qALipXec4tQ22RtmJbhKyrSjBeKWYuK9COEY3oS9iwvBLhbb3Dbs8uC_TSM3famvITDDQGAGYe95fUlvsti76XkohV-ZS7-OkIi66uSwxmnYlTeG6MaNpo0b7UqDm2Uk-i-Nc/s320/100190_0b823d5d465c47688730%255B1%255D.jpg" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>A trowel or kitchen implement might help scoop hard soil, if you can saw through any little roots that hold soil down with a serrated knife like a bread knife. You can see from the picture that a tree bought with roots wrapped in cling-film or a tiny pot is no big deal to plant, but has a bit of trouble staying upright on the strength of its little roots. Something bought cheaply or reduced for quick sale might have even fewer surviving roots. I have not tried drilling a deep hole for a bamboo stick cadged from a supermarket car park verge, but expect the technique would work. Then you have to fasten the sapling trunk to the stick for a year or two, but you probably have a bit of black clingfilm just unwound from the root ball, so that will do the job.</li>
<li>A lack of embarrassment helps, and an ability to do the job relatively fast and dirty so that if the tree gets removed or dies or gets cut-down by the council, you continue like a good soldier. You need to enjoy the idea of strangers picking the fruit as well, unless it's possible to anticipate the earliest possible date you can get to the place and pick the stuff yourself. I don't know if there is a way of putting a net under the tree so that falling fruit is less likely to be eaten by slugs and more likely to be eaten by passers-buy. </li>
<li>Tools with strength to stamp-on, to wield, and lever: these help if easy to borrow and bring to the site: crow-bars, or picks and shovels, or spades, which are meant to be a cross between picks and shovels. Talking of stamping, <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="thick sole boots that mould to the shape of your feet, made in the UK">thick-sole boots that mould to the shape of your feet are available from Veganline.com </a></li>
</ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">nursing fruit trees for sale</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are several sites about this by enthusiasts. Someone willing to cut-off the bottoms of root stock and grow them up in the back yard, then make grafted-together trees to grow a bit more and show in the front yard might make a tenner from a hobby and another from selling via myhermes and ebay, classifieds sites with their own <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-such-thing-as-free-phone.html">mobile number for work</a> and a postcode or address, and a sale-or-return wholesale offer to someone with a market stall. It doesn't have the sound of a business that could make a living, because I imagine that there is machinery best used on a larger field that can cut-down the labour; there is also specialist skill like web design more easily hired from specialists by a larger organisation, and there is a long history of fiddling exchange rates and tariffs down by bad countries and up by richer countries. Then there is the cost of social insurance in richer countries which are skimped in the others. Lastly there is the price of housing in richer countries. <br />
<br />
But web design is getting easier and hydroponics could solve the labour problem as well: grow in troughs of sludge. Housing costs vary between people; you might have retired and just find yourself living somewhere with a garden. Anyway this could work as a hobby. You would need a sane council and landlord on your side to sell very obviously in the front yard if planning zones and tenancies forbid this.</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">spades: a digression on buying picks and spades</span></h3>
<blockquote>
Spades are not completely necessary nor desirable if you want to look sane when stopped and asked what you are doing, but knives might be worse, and spades or picks can add leverage to the process of making a hole, and force to the process of of cutting clods and roots. Picks and shovels are good ways of moving a lot of earth; spades combine the two in a more suburban way as you know.<br />
<br />
Ebay is a source of mid-market shovels and spades made in a democratic welfare state - the UK - under the <a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Shovels-Spades-/178983/i.html?_dcat=178983&Brand=Bulldog&_trksid=p2045573.m1684">Bulldog</a> brand. Prices on ebay start from the mid 20s, delivered new to Argos or second-hand. <a href="https://www.chillingtontoolsonline.co.uk/">Chillingtontoolsonline.co.uk</a> come from another UK factory - mainly making <a href="https://www.quickcrop.co.uk/blog/garden-tools-chillington-hoes-or-azadas/">pick-axe like adze tools</a> that are slightly cheaper and have a <a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Hoes-Cultivators-/118868/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=chillington&_dcat=118868&Brand=Chillington%2520Tools&_trksid=p2045573.m1684">section on ebay</a>. There are also people on ebay selling a "ladies spade" and a "folding shovel", should the need arise; sometimes army surplus shops have folding shovels too apparently. <br />
<br />
Spades you can stand-on might be borrowable from <a href="http://www.streetbank.com/">streetbank.com</a> (which needs its own email address because it keeps sending updates) or neighbours, or cadge-able on <a href="https//www.trashnothing.com/">trashnothing.com</a> which includes Freecycle. That "might" sounds more positive when put the other way around. If you get a spade and change your mind, it will go quickly if put in the street with a sign saying "if you want it, take it", or advertised as a gift on trashnothing or for loan on streetbank. If you work out how to send it on myhermes, you could even sell it on ebay. There is no need to waste a spade.<br />
<br />
More complicated arrangements exist via <a href="http://www.conservationfoundation.co.uk/project.php?id=3">conservationfoundation.co.uk/project.php?id=3</a> which encourages tools from council tips to be sent to prison workshops for mending & giving. The danger is that handling time costs more than the cost of a spade dumped from an autocratic country with no welfare state and fiddled exchange rates, and a trip to a spade shop for you. Conservationfoundation tell donors that a spade costs them £8. This is before adding costs to council tips and prisons, minus any benefits to prisoners. Plus the cost of reading & writing words like "centre" and "community" which go-along with the thing as much as committees and un-invested reserves; words like "centre", "community" & "community" rot the will to live but - hey! - people survive those just as people survive time in prison.<br />
<br />
If you want the spontaneity that comes with owning a cheap spade, the usual shops have rust-able bendy spades for a tenner and Wickes slightly cheaper but Wilko, if you are near one, breaks the pattern and <a href="https://www.wilko.com/garden-hand-tools/digging-and-planting-/icat/digging-and-planting#esp_sort=sys_price&esp_order=asc&esp_hitsperpage=48&esp_cf=pdxttype&esp_filter_pdxttype=Spades">has spades for a fiver</a> delivered free to any of their branches if you pay online first. (Wilko is silent about selling fruit trees on its web site, except to say which branches have free a car park and so probably have somewhere to store them). BnM stores linked at the top of the page have a picture of a spade for the same price, and a note asking you to ring a branch in case they have one in stock. B&Q have them for £6.87. Asda doesn't advertise spades on the web site but sometimes has them on the shelves and much-reduced in clearance sales according to hotukdeals. Reviews of the Wickes one say that the bottom of the shaft can break when used with leverage for digging, so maybe it's not much better than a picture of a spade. Reviews of the Wilco spade range from "broke in half" to "makes digging easier".</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrilla poo</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Compost is not necessary but a load of old leaves or anything you happen to make anyway could be buried a little way away or left on-top to stop weeds competing; softening of soil with a fork might help. If I understand the more expert advice right, it is to put nutrients are best some way from the trunk of the tree so that roots have to go further and so keep the thing upright. <br />
<br />
For more expert advice there are a couple of upmarket nurseries with stuff on their web sites. This one has a quick method for small trees in soft soil.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/articles/fruit-tree-planting-instructions">Orangepippintrees.co.uk/articles/fruit-tree-planting-instructions</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"For 1-year bare-root dwarf trees (i.e. with a dwarf root system) an alternative planting method is worth considering, known as "notch planting". Make two notches in the ground with a spade (in a 'L' or 'T' configuration), lever the soil out slightly, drop the tree into the gap (making sure the roots are spread out into the gap), and lever the soil back and firm down. This method may seem almost too quick and casual, but it has the great advantage of minimising damage to the soil structure, and provides much better anchorage for the tree than is possible with a conventional planting hole. However it only really works with maiden dwarf trees, and the ground needs to be light (or cultivated earlier in the year in readiness"</i> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.ameliasapples.co.uk/">Ameliasapples.co.uk</a> has twigs from loads of fruit varieties for grafting and there are probably videos on youtube to show how to do it. Twigs are £4.50 for one including £2 postage. Other suppliers might come-up under searches like "apple scion uk grafting".<br />
<br />
I have planted all trees so far without stakes, but council trees appear with grand stakes over an inch thick - often two of them - and rubber bungees to show the tree what it's expected to do when it grows-up. If anyone knows more about this than me and thinks that stakes are worthwhile, there are often old pallets around to dissect or such.<br />
<br />
So there you have it. Every time nothing much has happened in a week or you pass the grey oblivion of a DIY superstore, check for a very cheap fruit tree and keep it to plant it furtively where nobody cares. If enough people have dull weeks, there will soon be more fruit trees about, more chances for people to live without having to do day-jobs, and people will be happier.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrillas talking to other guerrillas</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.guerrillagardening.org/">Guerrillagardening.org</a> is a site where you can post a picture of your work to show-off. There were some posts on message boards a few years ago in some major towns. Elephant & Castle was a hotbed. <br />
<br />
People with some kind of organised association in place with <br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>a</b></span> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">bank account</a> <br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>a</b></span> governing document for a non-profit organisation<br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>a</b></span> folder of any papers to show the organisation exists and so get a bank account<br />
<span style="color: red;"><b>a</b></span> cover-story about planting trees with permission from the landowner <b><span style="color: red;">&</span></b> patience...<br />
can even get a grant to do the same thing. Basically, schools and associations.<a href="http://www.projectdirt.com/project/8729/"><br />
</a><a href="http://www.projectdirt.com/">ProjectDirt.com</a> > <a href="http://www.projectdirt.com/project/all">projects</a> > <a href="http://www.projectdirt.com/project/8729/">fundraising</a>) is a forum where people often post up-to-date details. Tesco & Olswang lawyers sometimes make grants.<br />
"To register volunteering opportunities, please use your project page or select the relevant option on an event form"<br />
Writing-in to say <i>"I have no organisation or right to plant but can provide receipts"</i> has not worked for me. I have some of the receipts, if anyone would like to fund me anyway. <br />
<a href="http://orchardnetwork.org.uk/content/grants-fundraising">Orchardnetwork.org.uk/content/grants-fundraising</a><br />
...links to three short lists of funders UK-wide, occasionally updated. <br />
It's annoying that people who just want to plant a fruit tree can't get a free fruit tree in exchange for a photo of where planted, because other groups do get the money. Groups that are not set-up t balance demands from conflicting interest groups, any more than their funders should be spending this money on trees instead of people. Friends of Tower Hamlets Cemetry Park is an example of a group that employs paid people and volunteers, when the salary and possibly the volunteer effort could be used on social care as taxpayers expect when paying high taxes in a welfare state. To spend otherwise is like an insurance company failing to settle your claim but saying "we planted a daffodil instead".</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The cost of an apple in lost government services like social care </span></h3>
<blockquote>
The £4,000,000 Big Tree Plant is closed to new applicants. As a minister, it would be hard to resist the thought: <i>"I can't do much with this budget, but I can get loads of trees planted"</i>, and with luck the scheme started a momentum of planting. <a href="http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=11612_WC0811-BTP-Final-report-Oct2013.pdf">A £48,000 research report</a> <a href="http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends68%5C0000285768_AC_20150331_E_C.pdf">funded by the Big Lottery Fund</a> which paid nearly half a million for <a href="https://www.biglotteryfund.org.uk/funding/search-past-grants/project-details?appid=200500">this</a> & <a href="https://www.biglotteryfund.org.uk/funding/search-past-grants/project-details?appid=200500">that</a> research reports states that community groups were asked to raise matched funding, and that it was hard for them to keep within the £4 per tree budget even with matched funding sometimes greater - so £8 or £10 a tree. That's before the central costs of government and large organisations organising the grant, small groups organising to claim it, and other groups like charities and councils processing requests for matched funding. Some of the trees were full size, but the figures suggest that DIY planting is cheaper, where a guerrilla is prepared to pay for the tree at a supermarket; special offer prices have been known to go down to £4 at poundstretcher at the end of March. <br />
<br />
A fault of <a href="https://www.biglotteryfund.org.uk/research/environment/green-spaces">this kind of research</a> is that it is twee, fey, safe; it does not mention hidden uses of the woodland for things like gay cruising and rough sleeping, nor the cost of endless committees encouraged by grant schemes. For example there is now a local scheme to be funded about £40,000 by Richmond Council for purposes including "opening up lines of site" near gay cruising areas which are then patrolled at further cost by police with bright torches and headlights. The group called Friends of Barnes Common that got £40,000 off taxpayers has just paid a visit to <u>Friends of Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park</u>, after an introduction organised by South West London Environmental Network (SWEN).<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhej56XXKu8EvjjjzNrR3K2lJzEdd_gr672kqCtkvN9u5YOw8IzldDe8whgIdfp3v1djJXCPDCX8XVVu4N23H7_CRmUuM1aq10i1OwFinAtc-a48NtlnmHxmMnyHJGBF4zAa3kiL-svbyeu/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="- being receptive to hosting public artworks - the bench was installed for free in the park through Annin Arts and a broker agency. - a tolerance to what people do in the park as long as it doesn't damage, disturb others or the wildlife - a constant vigilance and attention to the whole space, with a 'cracked window pane' approach to repairing and responding immediately to any anti-social behaviour - their approach to trouble: make it known to the people doing it that you know what they're doing and why they shouldn't be doing it. For example, if people are sleeping rough, Ken collects all their stuff, keeps it back at the centre and puts up a sign saying that sleeping rough is not allowed in the park and they can come and get their stuff to take it away, and he leaves a phone number they can call for support if they are homeless. Or for cruising or alcohol abuse, to leave a laminated sign in the location saying that the park staff know what's happening, and asking people to clear up after themselves and not to come back. To make visible what others are trying to make invisible means you deter them, because you've drawn attention to it. They have also contacted local support groups and networks to communicate about behaviour they don't want in the park. - Ken is very affable, energetic, friendly and approachable as a park mananger and avoids the more traditional role of a park officer Our thanks to Ken and Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park for an inspiring and insightful tour. We took lots of ideas and good practice away with us and really enjoyed the morning in this special place. " border="0" height="466" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhej56XXKu8EvjjjzNrR3K2lJzEdd_gr672kqCtkvN9u5YOw8IzldDe8whgIdfp3v1djJXCPDCX8XVVu4N23H7_CRmUuM1aq10i1OwFinAtc-a48NtlnmHxmMnyHJGBF4zAa3kiL-svbyeu/s640/temp.jpg" title="" width="640" /></a><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
The quotes are clear; the conflicts of what counts as anti-social behaviour are not, despite Friends of Tower Hamlets Park getting an Observer Ethical Award from the person at The Observer who knows about ethics (<a href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm" title="What is Ethical Fashion?">What is Ethical Fashion? - and who got the idea going? It's a scheme to promote unfair competition from badly run countries, and you partly paid to get it going through taxes</a>).</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1107136">Paying £174,700</a> out of local money when there is not enough for social care. I count that as anti-social behaviour. It's not complicated. The money spent for an employee with the initiative to work alone for a committee is the same as the money spent on a carer at a respite day centre for people with Alzheimer's and their carers, or for someone who works in an old peoples' home. It may be more.<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom</a> or any other search for the avarage wage in the UK suggests high figures under £30,000, but living in London and answering to a committee is a tricky job that's worth more. <br />
<br />
Compare this to the salary of somone in a day centre, full time or part time, who provides a chance for people with alzheimers to get away from their carers. Or any other similar service. If you want to measure the number of people helped, you get a large number for the day centre person who uses tax money as intended by taxpayers, rather than the park keeper person as used by the committee people quoted above.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Taking rough-sleepers' bedding and giving it back with a phone number is, I think, anti-social behaviour because the phone call will not result in a hostel bed for the night in most, sane cases and is even less likely in eccentric and less sane cases like the people who have been evicted in the past but don't have any specific alms-house-style rooms available for people with mental health problems that make them bad tenants. I write "alms-house-style" because the layout of some old almshouses, round a courtyard but ground-floor and self-contained, is good for eccentric residents and probably doesn't need three-shift cover from wardens. <a href="http://www.thamesreach.org.uk/what-we-do/accommodation/bermondsey-project/">Thamesreach Bermondsey</a> scheme is a good recent example of what you see in old almshouse buildings all over the place. When I say "mental health problems" I mean problems as seen by neighbours; the person themself may be used to coping in their own way and not be keen to join a discussion group or take prescribed medicine or anything like that. The problem to society is one of containment that is fair to the contained person and fair to taxpayers. Prison is very expensive to taxpayers. A place in an almshouse-like building is much cheaper and fairer on the person who copes in their own way but troubles neighbours.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>"Cruising ... laminated notice ... park staff know what's happening and asking people to clear up after themselves and not come back." That's not behaviour that a council would fund towards a mosque, any more than they would find work to "open up lines of site" and then ask police to shine the brightest lights into prayer meetings. It's more like the old "no dogs no blacks no Irish" signs that could be seen in the odd pub decades ago, but, this time, our taxes pay for it.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The best of both</span></h3>
<blockquote>
If the next minister wants grafters to get cheap cuttings, I don't know what to suggest. Something might come to mind later.<br />
<br />
If the next minister wants to allow cheap saplings to be planted on public ground, I suggest a scheme to encourage councils and anyone else who owns bits of communally-used land to write a cheap note on the web to say <i>"we do not prosecute well-intentioned planters of trees for human food, and may publish detailed guidance on our web site at..."</i> which initially refers to the ministry's own template or - more expensive to taxpayers - publishes a local scheme which is probably just the same and costs loads of taxpayers' money in officials' time that ought to be spent on social care and benefits.<br />
<br />
If the next minister wants planters to find cheap saplings, I suggest a talk with the ministers for tax and business to get more information published from tax offices about who makes what in the UK. For example, Poundstretcher sell young fruit trees at a fiver, plus or minus, as do Asda. The offer is to promote their brand rather than to make much profit, but it's unlikely they make a loss on each tree. Where do they get these trees at a fiver plus or minus? National statistics do not currently state these things. Some kind of list of who makes what in what minimum orders in the UK would be useful for anyone who wants to do anything, including that planting of orchards. The customs act, or some act like that, forbids HMRC from answering freedom of information requests about who makes what, so a change of law is needed.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The cost of a tree in talk-time</span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<a href="http://www.treehealthcare.co.uk/guerrilla-planting/">A blog quotes gives the view of a council employee:</a> a guy who was working as a Tree officer for Lambeth council [in the 1990s], ... had grown tired of officialdom and legal constraints in where he could plant Trees and how many he was allowed to plant and how many groups, departments and local people he had to canvas and the reports he needed to write up and the meetings he had to attend to convince council officials that he had covered every potential legal angle and spoken to every potential protagonist and smoothed every potential obstacle, just to plant a Tree in a grassed area, let alone on a street. So what he was doing was growing his own Trees and then going out at night time and planting Trees in London Parks and replacing ‘official’ but dead Trees in London streets with his own 5ft grown Trees.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/5908/19732401.pdf">A department for communities case study</a> from Southwark states that one group of people wanted public money to deny use of a park to another group of people, who were not members of the <i>"newly created park users group"</i>. They also denied park neighbours the time of the new council park manager who liked committees, and presumably took-up colleagues' time as well, by feeding-back the result of her user group meeting: <i>"The orchard was created to prevent an underused area of the local park from being used as a dog run where owners of unsociable dogs closed the gates at either end of the area and let their dogs loose. This made it impossible for people to walk in this area of the park due to the resulting dog dirt. The park was also home to drug sellers, drug users and prostitutes"</i>. So, unless the dogs, dog owners, prostitutes, (and cruisers or doggers who are deleted from minutes for fear of involving the equalities committee) turn-up for the committee, they loose their service despite it sounding over-used rather than <i>"under-used"</i>. I doubt that reps for all these groups want to spend their time on a newly created park users groups, and unsociable dogs do not have the ability to take part because they can't read or speak. I don't mean to say that the users group is all as bad as expected. The group in Southwark have a very cheap blogspot website and a note saying something like <i>"a notice has appeared telling residents not to do a list of things including urinating ... could the council be requested to remove this notice unless there is clear demand for it?"</i><br />
<br />
A lot of free woodchip would have helped, more space, and perhaps some apple trees, but no. The group web site says they are short of volunteers for the pointless task of weeding and mowing, when mulch would do the job, but ask people not to leave coffee grounds round the trees as mulch.<b> </b><i>"there have been grants from the London Woodland Grant Scheme for native hedging as well as from Capital Growth and Groundwork East London."</i><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/5908/19732401.pdf">Another department for communities case study</a><br />
This is an example of a Federation of City Farms and Community Gardens project.<br />
"In May 1998 the first meeting took place to begin clearing some overgrown plots on the margins of an allotment association site.<br />
• Community and public engagement is achieved through events and open days, and by taking part in neighbourhood forums, local food and other networks.<br />
• The orchard is managed by a small committee, and by the harvest-share members who take part in working meetings on the site. Subgroups look after areas such as composting, markets and events.<br />
• Working meetings take place twice a month during the growing season, and once a month in winter. Members share responsibility for the care of trees and bushes, mowing the grass, battling weeds, and harvesting fruit. Those with little fruit-growing experience learn by doing, and working alongside more experienced members.<br />
• In spring 2011 the group was reconstituted as an independent community association. The group has an annual general meeting to review the year, and plan ahead. There are also regular planning and social meetings in members’ homes"</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The cost per apple in talk time is not easy to calculate, except to say that it's high. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
National government puts a more positive spin on grants for orchards in a document<br />
written before the last election, including links to pages about how to get permission to plant. Each chapter links to more background pages online - usually the list of examples or pages that have moved:<br />
<a href="http://commonground.org.uk/">CommonGround.org.uk</a> from <<< england-in-particular.info, <br />
<a href="http://freshstartlandenterprise.org.uk/land-partnership/">Freshstartlandenterprise.org.uk/land-partnership/</a> from <<< LandPartnerships.org<br />
<a href="http://locality.org.uk/our-work/assets/assets-publications">Locality.org.uk/our-work/assets/assets-publications</a> see <i>"asset transfer legal toolkit"</i><br />
from <<< atu.org.uk /support/toolkits/communityspace<br />
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160119175014/http://www.silvanustrust.org.uk/">Silvanus Trust</a> , who wrote the research report, closed at end of February 2016 after completing a <a href="http://goodfromwoods.co.uk/">Goodfromwoods.co.uk</a> web site about writing research reports that didn't mention how much grants to committees help committees reduce services for the kinds of people who don't sit on committees, like people who want a dog run in Southwark, or all kinds of marginalised groups who the grander rhetoric introductions hope to include with this kind of funding.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11466/1973262.pdf">Community Orchards</a></h4>
How-to Guide - Department for Communities and Local Government, 2011 (<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160320110449/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11466/1973262.pdf">archived version</a>)<br />
Contents, <br />
3 Introduction, <br />
4 Community orchards, <br />
5 What are community orchards? (sort of begs a question about page 4)<br />
6 What can I use the orchard for? <br />
7 How do I start an orchard? <br />
8 Will I need planning permission? <br />
9 Where can I get funding to start my orchard? <br />
10 Sources of additional information and guidance</fieldset>
<br />
People who prefer the legal route say that the need for more consultation can lead to less clashes of taste amongst flower-planters, more local species being planted, and a better sense of community of a committee-ish sort; some map seen somewhere suggests that it works in primary schools and should probably be tried around care homes too. Anyone with control over forgotten verges round playing fields or car parks or old peoples' home gardens is in a good position to organise something. (Anyone good at setting-up groups might try a group to set-up bird tables near old peoples' homes too.)<br />
Another down-side to government funding is that it demonstrates that no similar scheme is available for industry; they realise that there is something wrong when orchards close, but not when the spade factory closes.<br />
<br />
Talking of spades for schools and community groups, there is the <a href="http://www.conservationfoundation.co.uk/tools/">http://www.conservationfoundation.co.uk/tools/</a> link suggesting how to give or get them on zero budget.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrillas labelling saplings for other guerrillas</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Labels and cooking apples are two problems that go together if you have, by mistake, bought some <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Grieve_apple">James Grieve</a> apple trees among the bargains. They are bitter to anyone who picks early to eat raw, rather like Czar plumbs, and bruise if left to drop. <br />
<br />
After looking on ebay at loop-lock labels that sell for £5 for 50 or 100, I saw that some are made of a non woven material which is better at keeping the ink from a marker pen. The one they use is Tyvek, also used in less stiff form as a roof lining, but any long-lasting fabric such as a weed control fabric could do as a snippet to retain marker pen ink and stick out not too much while all the other trees in the hood act natural.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrillas using words like "habitat" & "native species"</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Somewhere on the net are details of wonderful resilient apple tree varieties like Bardsley Spartan and Egremont Russet - all available as twigs to graft-on, and one or two free versions of online maps like <a href="https://fallingfruit.org/">Fallingfruit.org</a> and <a href="http://fruitcity.co.uk/the-fruit-map">Fruitcity.co.uk/the-fruit-map</a> show trees in public places. One group in Hammersmith that shares a good pulping and juicing machine at least once a year - I think it's Abundance - but those details are getting too complicated to think about, as are details of how to cut the toes off an existing tree, use them as root-stock, and then graft a finger-like twig on to the root for free. I can only say that, as someone who does more blogging on the net than real things in real life, I have planted several cheap trees so far. If even blogger can do several, maybe you'd enjoy doing one. Or at least a thornless raspberry from a pound shop.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrilla do not know</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Guerrilla do not know things. <br />
<br />
Grafting. That's the difficult thing to bluff about. No guerrilla should type about grafting without proof of skill; this guerrilla say nothing. But if the system worked well and didn't annoy anyone with visible mistakes, then grafting a disease-resistant fruit onto a cherry tree or a crab apple or whatever takes the graft would make sense.<br />
<br />
After planting a cheap fruit tree, is it good to go back and have a pee near it? I suppose so, because it feels good. What distance so roots are encouraged to spread? Dunno. <br />
<br />
Is it good to dump a load of compost from a compost bin on or near the sapling? Probably. Blogs from hot climates say that it's good to bury a wet phone directory or load of junk mail next to the tree as a water reservoir. Councils bury most of a watering-pipe, available from outside hoover repair shops and electrical recycling banks.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">guerrilla embedding of someone else's youtube videos - introduction ends at 1 minute 40 seconds</span></h3>
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nVJW3QR3OUQ?rel=0" width="420"></iframe><br />
<br />
There is a one-sheet guide to grafting at <a href="http://www.guerrillagrafters.org/">guerrillagrafters.org</a><br />
There are videos on grafting at <br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/SarahKCox/search?query=grafting">https://www.youtube.com/user/SarahKCox/search?query=grafting</a><br />
<hr />
The author sells <a href="http://veganline.com/">shoes at Veganline.com</a> and has planted several guerrilla fruit trees without much knowledge about whether any of them will survive. There might be one or two waiting to be planted. Note to self: <a href="http://www.ciderworkshop.com/">ciderworkshop.com</a> . Oh, here is a seed firm that doesn't sell trees but looks cheap and worth encouraging: <a href="http://www.realseeds.co.uk/">realseeds.co.uk</a><br />
<hr />
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-32992651731656331482016-01-22T19:49:00.006+00:002018-10-21T10:23:01.086+01:00better economics teaching<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Introduction - skip this or you won't read more</span></span></span></span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">My writing style is rather muddled, with digressions all-over the place, and the ones on better economics teaching end-up here. Even though I have barely taught anything - certainly not at a college - and I have not been a student for a long time, so it's a bit daft to offer advice and suggestions to those in the trade.</span> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">This follows a blog post called "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">boring economics is interesting</a>" about studying economics at the worst of the 1980s recession, on a course that often didn't quite cover the 1980s recession, with large parts of obviously stupid rubbish. We studied the micro-economics rules of thumb out of a special stupid textbook called Laidler, which tried ot show that one could be derived from another, without other application or reference to fact. Why didn't lecturers change the course? Why didn't students like me walk-out? Those questions are still running in the late 20-teens. What was it like in 1985? It was odd because the college itself was a victim of whimsical funding changes, which I think are an economic problem. The Chief was a man who had been hauled before the McArthy or Todd Committees and probled about anti-american activities, like a teach-in-protest he did in his 20s at UCLA where staff and students just chatted about what they wanted to teach and learn. So he was a perky witness to the history of bad economics teaching. Where stupid teachers use a circular argument about subject names as an excuse: <i>"economics is rubbish therefore we teach rubbish as economics",</i> Fishman put the lie more simply <i>"We have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree". </i><br />
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: red;">"It's nothing earth-shattering"</span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
... said a tutor about one of the models on my 1980s economics course, <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What not to do</span></h4>
We'd just studied ASAD model to be followed by the ISLM model which suggests the ASAD model is wrong although teachers know and students guess that both are wrong. They are about tweaking the economy via interest rates and government deficits up or down; both have been done to death. They don't get to the point by saying why UK factories close, which in the mid 1980s, was an interesting subject to students with no job prospects and our redundant parents. <br />
<br />
In lectures, we also learned about Cow Theory, by which democratic welfare states should be run-down in favour of a globalized sweatshop economy and pay towards the process, for example through the British Council's Delphe programme which funds just this kind of teaching at UK taxpayers' expense. Oxfam commissioned a book called "Rigged Rules and Double Standards" to make just this kind of point. A group of people from the New Economics Foundation, I think, overlapped with a group called Futerra Communications and their fake trade association Ethical Fashion Forum, tend to make these kinds of points.<br />
<br />
<b>Professor Patrick Minford of Cardiff Business School</b> gets to the point in saying that most UK manufacturing would close with unilateral declaration of zero tariffs against goods from China, and he thinks this is a good thing (Sun article quoted by Evan Davis on Radio 4's <i>More or Less</i> program). This is how ignorant economists are allowed to be; they don't all understand that the tariff is to protect the higher costs of a welfare state because that's another subject called <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Search/SubjectCode/055/Social%20Policy">Social Policy</a>. There's more say about him, personally, that is polite; he demonstrates why economics is a failed subject.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What order to teach things in?</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The post crash economics society call for teaching to start with problems, and to choose theories that help solve those problems. Lots of economics students might have had a similar idea, while listening to a lecture about something they do not want to know and suspect that nobody else wants to know either. If theory is taught in order to solve a real problem, then a large proportion of it can be cut and the Post Crash Economics Society suggest things like Game Theory that came-in after I studied. I was lucky</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What to call the subject? Social Policy & Management Science? Applied Economics?</span><br /><blockquote class="tr_bq">
I add this in 2018: a new idea.<br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Suppose the problem is subjects called "economics" and expectations of what to teach by applicants or all kinds, decision-makers at the college, and textbook-writers. For example because political and government economics, such as how to fund the NHS, seem to be taboo and of no </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">interest</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"> to some students, while management science is a bit of an odd thing to apply-for at the age of 18 or 19 without any work experience - it's a bit of a fall-back geography kind of uncool subject a tthat age, however much it's interesting to people decades older.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Near me in London, someone tried splitting "Applied Economics" and "Business Economics", which are good titles. Then students got wary of spending £9,000 a year on course for people without great A-level results or history, and the "Applied Economics" course dropped for lack of students, which is a pity..<br />Another idea would be to have<br /> "Management" or "Business Mangement" or some title like that next door to<br />"Social Policy" or "Political Economics" which is a new one I have just coined.<br />The idea is that "economics" becomes a title for one or two short courses on the notice board and not the big letters on the college web site that lure people in. Maybe less people come-in, but I understand that Economics has about as much attraction as Geography just at the moment; it isn't something you'd mention on a dating site. Whatever I think, college managers have the same idea. As I typed blog posts about Economics degree feedback on Unistats, I realized that some colleges like Imperial have dropped it altogether, despite it being a schools subject name. A student from Cardiff was quoted as saying something like "if they don't want to teach economics, why don't they set-up a new department to teach it?". I don't know, but the Open University has such a slow server for their Economics degree that it's very unlikely that enough people will apply to make the course viable. They have much quicker server speeds on other subjects. So someone at Open University is deliberately trying to get them out of the Economics market. As I said, it's not just me that wants a new name.</span></blockquote>
</h4>
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">What to study. What kinds of problems do politically-minded macro students want to solve?</span> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Rules of thumb including bits where markets don't work so well as on the X-shaped diagram.<br />
Fair treatment of suppliers by big customers; fair treatment of employees by employers, fair treatment by big unions of employers (this last case could be extinct bar Aslef), fair treatment of union members by un-accountable unions (<a href="http://employees.org.uk/">this is a common problem with UK unions</a>). </li>
<li>critical understanding of economic claims in "The Value of Fashion" report of Heathrow Airport's report on the benefits of another runway or political claims about EU membership<br />
I didn't finish that list and grafted-on another one that I had already, which should have a different title<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Helping better jobs happen, including better jobs for new graduates;<br />
This is also something that economics students would want to study</span><br />
<br />
...access to workshop space and fair planning rights to work at home; other ways of tweaking an economy to make sure that a list of good things happen like growth via innovation, employment... </li>
<li>trade directories that don't exist but that the government could inform from tax data, currently protected from freedom of information requests or government re-use by the revenue and customs act.</li>
<li>online markets cheaper than ebay's 10%. (This could be done by cajoling the current monopoly to present data standardised forms, including postcodes, so that small-ad gathering web sites could send customers to the more obscure small ad sites as well as to ebay.)</li>
<li>training for self employment and work skills, and </li>
<li>secured or well-judged credit (a tweak of the "British Investment Bank" desks at the Department for Business which lend a bit through P2P lenders to business)</li>
<li>customer appreciation of the benefits of UK-made products including their built-in taxes paid towards a welfare state</li>
<li>social insurance; fair tariffs against products from countries without social insurance costs (on a formula that would allow them to introduce social insurance and get cheaper tariffs).</li>
</ul>
One of the background, foundation courses that needs to be taught to anyone interested in macro-economics and politics is the structure of welfare states or social insurance systems round the world; which work best, and how they can cope if people move from the parish of their birth (as under the poor law system) or state of their birth more recently. This could be shared with a politics department in the same college, as the political items on the news are partly about how to cope with the problem, whether it is more percieved than real in causing unfair migration, and whether trade between non-welfare states and welfare states can be fair and free at the same time.<br />
<br />
Other problems could emerge from whatever students ask about, and could emerge from books by the likes of Robert Peston, Evan Davies, or Keele's own staff and ex staff. There's a temporary transcript of the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">1984 "British Economic Crisis" by Keele author Keith Smith here</a> - and probably on a wordpress.com site later. It reads like Robert Peston and describes the decades before. People are trying to write online textbooks to get-around the obstical of a brick-thick-tome that has to sell all-over the place. One book I haven't read is on <a href="https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/foundations-of-economics-a-beginners-companion/">https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/foundations-of-economics-a-beginners-companion/</a> </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Back to teaching</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
These suggestions for teaching are nothing earth-shattering either. I'm not well-qualified to comment on what to teach as I'm not a student, teacher, or economist.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Keele in particular</span></h3>
... was about bottom for economics student satisfaction on unistats when I first wrote this in the mid 20-teens; <a href="https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Student+Satisfaction&s=Economics">The Complete University Guide re-hash the data in a way that's easy to click</a>. <br />
<br />
Keele departments are exposed to bad feedback because they taught mainly joint-honours. Apparently 30% on a recent check, but 100% when I was there with a compulsory third subject in year one and foundation year for big chunk. So a subject like economics that gets bad reviews everywhere got worse reviews at Keele because students compare it to some other subject they chose for fun. If the trend at Keele is for more single subject economics students, and better feedback, it could be because the single subject people know nothing better and lack critical skills, so other improvements are worth a thought.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
A way of checking this would be for someone good at maths to work-out which joint-honours subject combinations with economics give better feedback. My hunch is that traditionally-taught science courses, which teach theory first with plenty of algebra, go well with taditionally-taught economics which is the same. Leicester Uni has a BSc Economics course and a BA economics course. The BSc scored worse on 2015 Unistats quoted on my the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a> page.<br />
<br />
When Keele departments get bad feedback, they have another problem, which is generally high expectations of Keele. I think that might make the score worse than a student would give for the same course at at a college that they expect to be bad, to have low staff ratios, to teach something they don't want to know. If the course is half decent they are surprised. Meanwhile at Keele, people travel however-far to live on a campus for a couple of courses taking less than half their time, so students are bound to be a bit dissapointed with the courses. There are also low scores for Economics at the LSE, suggesting that the high expectations of specialist students tend to be dissapointed too. And Brunel, and Goldsmiths.<br />
<br />
Unistats also publish a graph. I don't know quite what it graphs, but down is bad. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQb_tzcMd5Xy_U-vbT21ltMttc3QrSMcQUu-BttL_HQIm5gW-Gv-jj6tHDvN9MxaNV_jZH7UIseoUsUtGve6_3hX3kn9JBzcV-B6D6mLqo6ieLjCXtS1O6Ansi5yPN05edk6bpTkCS4JJn/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="255" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQb_tzcMd5Xy_U-vbT21ltMttc3QrSMcQUu-BttL_HQIm5gW-Gv-jj6tHDvN9MxaNV_jZH7UIseoUsUtGve6_3hX3kn9JBzcV-B6D6mLqo6ieLjCXtS1O6Ansi5yPN05edk6bpTkCS4JJn/s400/temp.jpg" width="400" /></a><br />
More noisy, detailed data is shown on Unistats:</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Search/SubjectList/052">https://unistats.ac.uk/Search/SubjectList/052</a> : Checking in early 2017, Keele Economics scores better than St Andrews (specially their MA course) and most of the Scottish colleges, with the LSE, Brunel and Goldsmiths scoring badly too, but the gist is still bad for Keele.<br />
<br />
College publicity often repeats Keele is number one for student satisfaction overall, and to hold-on to this boast the college needs to do something about economics. In 2008 they thought of closing the subject, but were talked out of it; it's hard to offer a lot of subject-mixing choices and not offer a popular subject. So something needs to be done even if the course is good; expectations need to be managed.<br />
<br />
A long post called <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Econimics is Interesting </a>shows that there was a good economics course at Keele till the 80s recession, when problem-solving workshops of six students to one teacher were cancelled and replaced by classes of 25 students noting conventional wisdom from someone standing at one end of the room. The idea of a problem-solving approach, in which theories are yanked-in to the course if they help solve a problem, is mentioned on the post-crash economics society's report about how to sort the subject out.<br />
<br />
It's possible to google the names of people working in this good department at the early 80s - they are mentioned in the preface of <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">Kieth Smith's British Economic Crisis</a>. A bit of googling finds two of them now teaching at Imperial College and one at Birmingham Uni. These are the people to ask about how to restore a decent course at Keele. The Birmingham one even writes about economics teaching for a living.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/</a><br />
<a href="https://independent.academia.edu/KeithTribe">https://independent.academia.edu/KeithTribe</a><br />
<a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/">keithtribe.co.uk/</a><br />
<br />
The reason for asking ex-Keele teachers is that Keele teachers have the problem of condensing a course that's often taught over 90 weeks full-time into less than half of that. They face a broad intake of students, which is another problem for Economics courses where different students can have very different expectations I guess. <br />
<br />
Any teacher who has taught a popular joint-honours economics degree could have good ideas too. I think that any prospective economics student would be daft to do a single honours degree. There would be too much chance of getting frustrated, seeing only other frustrated students, and dropping out while the keen ones are the least imaginative. I think that courses where people end-up doing economics next to a whole range of things are most likely to bring common sense to the subject, but how, exactly, on a Monday morning with 12 or 24 bored 20-odds scowling at you? Maybe that's why a tutor from Keele got interested in teaching about the subject.<br />
<br />
I don't know if the page here relates to the white paper at all. This is more based on decades-old experience of being a student. I think it's better to make suggestions and show ignorance than to criticise without suggestions, so here goes.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Managing expectations; grouping people with the same expectations together</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I think a problem with economics courses is high and conflicting expectations.<br />
I remember that a problem on my course in all subjects (it was a subject-mixing college) was that the first bit repeated A level. <br />
<br />
This is known to teachers and students, but there is no strong incentive or easy solution for dealing with it. The long process of passing exams and getting course offers seems to be a rationing ritual which serves no other purpose: once you are at college, you start at the beginning of the subject again. I don't have a solution to this and so shall move-on to the next subject.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Where to teach</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I think holiday camps are a likely place, at least for courses about hospitality. Use them for teaching in winter and as holiday camps in summer. There's one holiday camp on the market to use all the year round <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2880461/Left-ruin-Haunting-images-abandoned-state-popular-Pontins-holiday-park-s-not-Blue-Coat-sight.html" rel="nofollow" title="Serelic Holiday Camp Photos">according to this</a>.<br />
<br />
The need to teach in a physical place suggests some interaction between people that would not happen on a distance learning course. Students comparing ideas. Lecturers adapting the course to students.<br />
<br />
From my experience of an under-funded 1980s course, this didn't happen on the course itself so the course could have been held anywhere, but being among students and near a library probably made it easier.<br />
<br />
Another factor is that a lot of 18 year-olds most likely want to stop living with their parents full-time. They want to meet other 18 year-olds. But if they go to Oxford Cambridge or London, with extreme housing costs, they will boomerang back to their parents' spare bedroom after the end of the course. I guess that housing costs are extreme, because they are high in these areas. The particular cost is the cost of accomodation that an ex student might want or get, compared to the wage available on a job that an ex-student might want or get. Something similar applies for people who want to work at universities.<br />
<br />
I have started a subject here without knowing where to finish it.and shall move-on to another point.</blockquote>
<br />
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">social insurance / social security / welfare state : passnotes</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
I think another problem with economics courses is their use of american syllabuses which leave-out social insurance, so I will explain social insurance for those who don't know about it.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<span style="color: red;">Why?</span><br />
Private payment plans exist for a lot of the things that the state provides - health care, school fees, pensions, and short-term loss of earnings - including the famous PPI scheme. <br />
Assuming these plans are as efficient as a state scheme, they have a problem: you can't afford them on a low-paid job. Put in another ways: people without these costs can under-cut you; employers can get cheaper people to do the same job.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">When?</span><br />
Parts of Germany had a compulsory insurance system for employed people from 1868. The UK and Ireland had compulsory membership of insurance schemes from the National Insurance Act of 1911 (the empire was not covered). India had a basic hospital insurance scheme for people in formal employment from 1948, just the minute Lord Mountbatten had resigned as govenor, and the UK nationalised its scheme that same year while adding a health service free a the point of use and a national assistance scheme to pay lower pensions or unemployment pay to the uninsured.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">How?</span><br />
Compulsory insurance does not have to be run by government, but public sector give cheap deal. Government is, generally, efficient at vast uniform simple activities, and saves the costs of advertising, admin, and assessment that make up a big chunk of private insurance costs. The brokers' fee for motor insurance used to be about 50% in the first year for example. There is also a lot of saving in hospital admission costs in the post 1948 NHS system: you just have to prove that you are sick to get admission, rather than remember your insurance details. The NHS is much cheaper than the US system of healthcare. I don't know figures for how cheap it is to another couple of universal benefits - pensions and family allowance - but I imagine it is practically free because a computer can do most of the work.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">What does "welfare" mean?</span><br />
Nothing. It is a slippery word. It slipped into the idea of a "welfare state" I think because the 1948 system paid staff to help the unemployed get interviews and nanny them about in a rather awkward way - quite different to the insurance-like gist of the thing. I think it's also a book-keeping heading for things like buying a tea urn at the works canteen. The idea of nationally-employed social workers didn't last long and they are now employed by councils for child protection. "Welfare" is also a word used by economists and politicians who want to say nothing while earning high salaries from our taxes. I dislike them. Other than association with the "Welfare State", the word has no purpose when talking about UK social insurance. People who use the word are bad people to teach economics in the UK, I think; universities who employ such people a bit iffy and a bit suspect and not the kind of place that students should choose to study if there is a choice. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Is it any good?</span><br />
Yes: there are great side-effects. You do not have to pay for a parallel system to keep the old sick and young uninsured off the streets; the people born with learning difficulties or the people who have never earned enough to insure, nor to run another system again for people you think are feckless rather than unlucky, nor spend time agonising about the borderlines between sad bad & mad, or between drunk, dotty & desparado.<br />
<br />
If you consider health and education as insurance-like services, because they are used at parts of our life-cycles and not at others, then there are more good side effects. Mothers with access to secondary schools and health services tend to have fewer children and later in life. Parents who expect a basic pension and care in old age have less incentive to have a lot of children, which, in Bangladesh, it is common to do because you as a parent hope they will look after you in old-age. So a cycle of poverty and over-population tends not to happen when there is social insurance. Both China and Bangladeshi governments agree with this point of view. China has a "one child" policy and Bangladeshi government sends health advisors to go and persuade the poor to have smaller families, but neither yet has universal healthcare and pensions. I understand that the Bangladeshi system is like Victorian Britain: there are teaching hospitals with some state subsidy that keep bodies off the streets in the towns, and a referral system that tries to get fair access to them for people out of town. A good Victorian system to be proud of, but one that was improved-on decades and hundreds of years ago by better governments.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Problem: cost of means testing or admin still exists for some benefits</span><br />
Costs mount-up again for means-tested benefits, for which you have to prove something like low income and affordable rent (for housing benefit) or unemployment and active seeking for work (for dole). <br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
</span> <span style="color: red;">Problem: the state thinks the money is theres and runs the scheme like a charity</span><br />
Where the state nationalises the system as in the UK in 1948, it tends to regard the money as its own, paid straight out of the current account as a favour, and this idea creeps into the methods of administration and political decisions such as benefit sanctions or housing benefit cuts. When I was at college, Edwina Curry MP came to give a talk. She mentioned how hard she had worked to persuade the civil service to give up the notional "national insurnance fund" that still exisited at the time. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Problem: the state doesn't plan ahead</span><br />
Private insurance and pension systems try to have an expert who guesses how long pensioners will live or how many accidents will happen. An absent-minded government can forget that and then leave MPs to say, with a straight face, that there is "a problem of an ageing population", as though they only discovered just recently that people get older. They can accept taxes or national insurance payments for years, and then decide they'd rather spend the money on The Olympics instead.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Problem: structural imbalances</span><br />
Insurance can only be compulsory in one country. What if someone moves? What if someone works cheaply in Rana Plaza in order to sell cheap goods in Rochdale? Governments have not been good at solving this problem, mainly because they studied bad textbooks at college which don't mention social insurance. As a result we have a mixture of sweat-shop and non sweat-shop countries in the world, with most of the goods made in the sweatshops and poverty not always reducing in those countries. One brief attempt to build-in a "social clause" into tariffs, requiring something in return for low tariff access to trading blocks like the EU, was quickly shouted down by sweatshop governments. Attempts to defend trade and industry in states with social insurance, by building tariff barriers, are generally dismissed by economists as something that tabloid readers want and that government should not give-in to.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><br />
Oh I don't know lots of stuff</span><br />
I'm so ignorant I didn't know where experts on this subject write, but just now found an <a href="http://www.spicker.uk/">introduction to social policy by Paul Spicker</a> - a collection of open source textbooks and posts </fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">by the way - sites were people post stuff like this</span></h3>
<fieldset>
<a href="http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/" title="Rethinking Economics is an international network of students and citizens working together to transform economics education for the better.">Rethinkeconomics.org</a> tries to put ideas from sites like Manchester's Post Crash Economics Society on a non-geagraphic page and link to other similar. The good idea here of teaching from a problem to solve is pinched from Post Crash Economics. The <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf" title="The revised Economics statement now explicitly acknowledges the importance of context in analysing economic phenomena and the importance of developing a critical approach. Other specific changes include contextual updates, increased emphasis on evidence, and new bullet points on historical and policy contexts.">Quango of Things has a cheat-sheets of what you are meant to discuss with an external reviewer if you want to run an economics degree</a>. I have condensed their benchmark standards into a short box at the end of this post, leaving-out their introductions. Another site that comes-up on occasionally is <a href="http://www.ecnmy.org/" title="Economy provides a new approach to economics, with news, opinion and resources that go behind the jargon and show where you fit in">www.ecnmy.org</a>. Three of them have Wordpress technology in common, allowing them to publish stuff that would once have been in a little-read and expensive journal. There's a lobby group with very fixed views about the need to subsidise firms like Monsoon, but it presents itself as an open forum. More about <a href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm" title="ethical fashion forum attracts people looking for internship jobs, sourcing, member organisations like Monsoon or People Tree, odd events called summits, and a view of ethical fashion that tends to emphasise environmental sustainability, like a product you can put in a compost bin">Ethical Fashion Forum here</a>.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Expectation: information that is fit for purpose, accessible & trustworthy</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
This could be the only subject where a quick email to the Quality Assurance Agency could get results, because facts might be clear-cut. The agency might agree that a syllabus or a course is so badly described that the description unfit for purpose, such as descriptions of the Barnsley Early Years course that's <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">about bottom on Unistats</a>. The agency might get the attention of people running the course in a way that a direct approach might not. The college managers might think a description of a "vibrant buzz" at a college and interview with a previous student is more important than a syllabus and notes of tutorial times, until they get questions from a government agency. London College of Fashion used to do a lot of that in prospectuses as well.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">There is also law.</span></h4>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_of_Goods_and_Services_Act_1982">The common law phrase of "merchantable quality" was included in the Sale of Goods Act, expanded to services & "reasonable expectations" by the 1982 Supply of Goods and Services Act</a>.It is now defined for services by the <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4/crossheading/what-statutory-rights-are-there-under-a-services-contract?view=plain">2015 Consumer Rights Act</a> .<br />
However often the law is re-written, it's still hard to define an education service so bad that students can get their money back, so they don't, but the act provides a few headings that could stop any institution being the first one to get sued:<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-49">#49</a> reasonable care & skill<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-50">#50</a> information to be binding<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-51">#51</a> reasonable price ... and no more<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-51">#51</a> in a reasonable time<br />
<br />
There is a danger of college managers thinking that this means a tightly-drawn syllabus. Teachers reading this ought to try to get a bit of flexibility written-in so that different groups who want different things can be taught differently; students join and study or participate. As groups they differ a lot in what they already know and what they'll do on the course. Even if the teacher is perfect in every way, the group of students might not be. They have to join each others' company in order to study.<br />
<br />
Talking of who gets on to the course, students on the more marginal courses will have wider ranges of reasons for applying, as there is less control by a college has on who faces them on the first day. This could make it a much better course, but there is a need for a skeleton structure, like a list of chaptors in textbook, and reasonable care and skill in using what students already know. The teaching on all courses - specially the well known full-time ones like the LSE - isn't likely to show reasonable care and skill in knowing what students already know.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.academia.edu/7264841/">academia.edu/7264841/</a> - <br />
The Economics Corriculum and the Anglo-Saxon Model - Kieth Tribe, 2014<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Students who have completed a two year A level in economics will have some initial advantage ...[that]... will not persist much beyond the first term. Hence students who have taken economics A level in school are deemed to have expressed an interest in economics, but not learned anything in two years that will help them beyond the first two weeks. [...]</i><br />
<br />
<i>Selective entry makes it possible to maintain [...] a routine, but attention can be drawn to the lack of connection between what pupils learn in school, and what their university teachers expect of them. The early specialisation typical of the A level curriculum, only three subjects being studied in the final year of school, is disregarded by university teachers, even though the subjects studied at A level have extended in imitation of a university curriculum, including business studies, psychology, sociology, dance, sports science, drama. Leading universities now routinely warn applicants that high grades in subjects such as these are not equivalent to high grades in the core subjects. But on the other hand, little effort is made to either build on what new students already know, or alternatively, seek to communicate to school teachers and school pupils to the school system what kind of competences are desirable for particular courses of study. Consequently, with the exception of requiring competence in mathematics, university economics teachers plan their work on the assumption that their new students know little of relevance.</i></blockquote>
<br />
It would be good it students could get a refund for behavior like this, but in practice I guess it takes extreme clear-cut cases like a college closing, before the remedies apply:<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-54">#54</a> refund and a general list<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-55">#55</a> repeat<br />
<a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-56">#56</a> reduction in price<br />
<br />
Linked searches of <i>"Consumer Rights Act" university</i> are on <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?cr=countryUK%7CcountryGB&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=867&tbs=ctr%3AcountryUK%7CcountryGB&q=%22Consumer+Rights+Act%22+university&oq=%22Consumer+Rights+Act%22+university">Google</a> <a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Consumer+Rights+Act%22+university">Bing</a> <a href="https://www.mojeek.co.uk/search?q=%22Consumer+Rights+Act%22+University">Mojeek</a> <br />
<br />
Some people on the net are more clear in explanation and informed about laws than me. <br />
There's a guide from Durham Uni that looks good and mentions other similar consumer laws. As taxpayers we've paid for a guide from the Competition and Markets Authority, which is on gov.uk<br />
<br />
The reason to quote law here is because I've copied an attempt at a consensus view from the Quality Assurance Agency, and it should be read alongside the law. A video of a previous student saying things like "you can do it", as at Blackburn in 2015, or a glossy prospectus about former students saying what a vibrant area the college is based-in, as at London College of Fashion's footwear department in the early teens, are asking for trouble.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/assuring-standards-and-quality/the-quality-code/quality-code-part-c">Higher education providers produce information for their intended audiences about the learning opportunities they offer that is fit for purpose, accessible and trustworthy</a>.</i> - Quality Assurance Agency Expectation C</blockquote>
If an external examiner wants to talk about this on a borderline case or just because all is going well and there's time to talk about systems, I suggest these ideas.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Surveys of what students want from a degree - maybe in retrospect or with a sense of what the college wants to teach added-in. Particularly important for economics with its conflicting expectations from different students. Also in over-subscribed colleges where more than enough applicants have very good A-level results; there ought to be some other way of finding which ones would enjoy the course or opt for it, given a good prospectus.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Teaching staff able to describe their own course to applicants, and say what kinds of applicants have done well or enjoyed it. The role of central web PR or management staff ought to be to take-out vagaries and the over-statement, not to put them in, and their job descriptions job ads and responses to questions should reflect that.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Shortlists of new staff chosen to match what students want to study. So if student applicants want tutorials with someone like Robert Peston and a chance to test theories on the computer, then you can rule-out most of the applicants. Someone who's main expertise is in another economy and talks about "welfare" in the american sense should not be shortlisted. Someone who does not do tutorials, like Fishman on another page, should not be shortlisted. Someone who was a mathematician and then diverted to teaching game theory as applied maths should not be shortlisted. <a href="http://theprofessorisin.com/2013/04/02/for-north-americans-the-peculiar-british-interview-process-a-guest-post/">For a page about the process see here</a>. <br />
<br />
I write without experience of teaching jobs or academia, but guess that something like this is done in colleges that do well. </li>
</ul>
Quality Assurance Agency expectations could be used as evidence if, in a rare and unusual situation, someone tried to sue for money back after disappointment. Generally people don't want to sue and the few who think about it find that reasonable expectations aren't clear in education: it's not like buying a faulty toaster. If they did find clear fault it would probably be at the most obviously failing college that did something like close before the end of the course, not a run-of-the-mill duff course that more-or-less gets to the end, but the principal of fairness ought to be the same either way when people think how to run courses. </div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Default settings. Quality Assurance Agency benchmarks: Red, amber & green</span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
1 <span style="color: red;">ignorance / </span><span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of economic concepts, principals & tools. <br />
2 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of distinctive economic theories, intepretations, modelling approaches & <span style="color: #38761d;">their competant use</span>. <br />
3 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span><span style="color: #b45f06;"> </span><span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness </span>& <span style="color: #38761d;">proficiency </span>in quantitative methods & computing techniques appropriate to their programme of study, <span style="color: #b45f06;">show an appreciation of the contexts in which these techniques and methods are relevant</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">how to use them effectively across a range of problems</span>. <br />
4 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of sources and content of economic data & evidence, and <span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciate what </span>/ <span style="color: #38761d;">and of those</span> methods that might be appropriately applied to its analysis. <br />
5 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of how to apply economic reasoning to policy issues <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">in a critical manner</span>. </span> <br />
6 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge awareness </span>& <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of historical, political, institutional international, social, and environmental contexts in which specific economic analysis is applied. <br />
7 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> in an appropriate number of specialised areas in economics as well as <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> or an <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciation of the research literature in these areas</span></span>. </span> <br />
8 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness</span> of & <span style="color: #b45f06;"><span style="color: #38761d;">familiarity</span> </span>with the possibility that many economic problems may admit of more than one approach. <br />
9 <span style="color: red;">familiarity and understanding</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">awareness of</span><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;"> </span></span><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;"><span style="color: black;">/</span> </span>ignorance</span> of the idea of compulsory insurance, often state-run, with its cheap-deal method of evening-out typical payments and benefits over a life cycle. This is the main work of most European governments, but has to be ignored in order to sell textbooks from Alabama to West Virginia. Completely misleading concepts like "transfer payments" or a slippery american word "welfare" must be used instead. Substitute red for green and vica versa if studying history or social policy. <span style="color: #b45f06;">Threshold level is amber</span>; <span style="color: #38761d;">typical level is green</span>. <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Point 9 <span style="font-family: inherit;">is</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">not on the QAA site</span></span>.</a></span></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Talk about talk</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
A problem with organisations that separate the mangement role from the foreman or lead role is that the manager has to make-up another job to do, which is of course thought to be worth more in pay per hour than the usual job. So an organisation selling quango client services on a grant employs a manager who is not at all interested n clients, but very interested in getting grants or any darn thing to justify a well-paid job out of the staff room. I have put this in a rather cynical way.<br />
<br />
Anyway, cynical or not, there are different groups of people who study economics from the readers of newspapers to people who read money advice service web pages to A-level students to degree students.<br />
<br />
Without extra talk about talk, I think that first year degree students should get a chance to pass an A-level if they have not done so already, and do something more sensible if they have already got an economics A-level. Like pass a few tests, revise bits they got wrong, and have time for another short course with luck.<br />
<br />
There could be more that higher education teachers can contribute to the work of economics teachers at other levels, but as I write this I realise that it sounds like something the civil service is asked to do because of some mad minister that will never come to anything good, with the outcomes already known before anyone is consulted.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Courses at other colleges</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ checking the best places</h4>
Most teachers don't need to pinch ideas, but comparing notes as a way of keeping up to date with other syllabuses and book lists is a good thing. Colleges that run tutorials in areas where there have been financial crisis should be the ones to watch, if you want to pick up a good set of course notes. However put them together will have had to present them to seething students. Colleges that run "classes" or, worse, "recitations" are the ones to ignore or search for failed ideas. Google lists the places my ex-professor worked at UCLA and Colorado near the top of the bad list alongside Chicago, which says something about the Chicago school of economics. In the UK there is unistats data for colleges, based on the questions at the bottom of this page. Some of it is in a dense format that foundation economics students might work-out how to download and put into an open source spreadsheet. Some is search able straight from the web site menus including <i>"Staff are good at explaining things"</i>, <i>"Staff have made the subject interesting"</i>, <i>"Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand"</i>, <i>"I have received sufficient advice and support with my studies"</i>. A few quick sorts of the data by those drop-down menu options should reveal which UK colleges run tutorials, and so are worth closer online search for good syllabuses and book lists. These might show how they get good scores. Someone could probably write a piece of software that says a book or a jargon phrase referenced on bad-scoring college web site should get negative points and a book or jargon phrase referenced on good-scoring college web sites should get positive points. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Getting new staff from the best places when comparing CVs</h4>
If new staff are asked for tutorial experience and asked about it at interviews, that can be a way of getting better staff because they will have learnt from the students.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ knowledge understanding<span style="color: purple;"></span> and awareness of historical, political, institutional international, social, and environmental <b>contexts</b> in which specific economic analysis is applied</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economics-teaching.html">I have another post about a Professor Les Fishman who was sacked from UCLA California for failing to swear a loyalty oath, then called before a Senate Committee when working at Boulder Colorado after some anti-Vietnam protests</a>. The Senate Committee were interested in communist conspiracies. The students were interested in a military industrial complex I found out more about him from someone who did American Studies in the department next door than from signing-up to his Economics degree course. The economics degree course I studied was taught in a farcical way, like this american one.</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160210170800/http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/christian.dippel/Dippel_MGMT405_2013_Syllabus.pdf"> Syllabus.pdf</a></span></span></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
It's hard to see why anyone would sign-up to such a course except to avoid the draft to go and get killed in Vietnam, but that is something the courses and their supporting journals do not mention. Take <i>Econometrica</i> on Google Scholar, and search for <i>"military industrial complex"</i>. There is only one reference. <i>American Economic Review</i> has 15. There are over 100 Vietnam war songs listed on a page of Wikipedia. From that ratio I conclude that <i>Econometrica</i> and <i>American Economic Review</i> are not good places to go looking for wisdom, although further funding is required for a more statistically clear report because many of the anti war songs may not have included <i>"military industrial complex"</i> in the lyrics, but that should be weighted against the difficulty of rhyming and fitting into short emotive lines.</div>
<a href="http://hetecon.net/division.php?page=resources&side=research_assessment"> Someone here at the Association of Heterodox Economics understands more than I do</a> about journal rankings from the Association of Business Schools and the <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20120324101615/http://www.keele.ac.uk/cer/documents/KeeleEconJournalRanks442.pdf">Keele List</a>, which are a kind of top of the pops for journal articles in the eyes of people who award research funding. Someone who gets published in these journals would therefore be more of an asset to the department than a good teacher who does tutorials and learns from students, because the first one is more likely to attract research funding. Even someone like the teacher who published <i>"<a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/0140225021/ref=acr_search_hist_5?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=five_star&showViewpoints=0">The British Economic Crisis</a>"</i> with Penguin while working at Keele, or Robert Peston with his books about banks. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"The irony of this, given the history of the discipline, is clear. One can imagine Adam Smith’s head of department at Glasgow informing him that<i> An Inquiry into the Nature and causes of the Wealth of Nations</i> is all very well, but books don’t count. Keynes, likewise, may have been told that Cambridge were including his journal articles in the submission, but<i> The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money</i> would not be entered because it wasn’t bite-size enough."</blockquote>
You can tell I don't understand very much about this. Why should economic research be expensive? Why don't students help with it as part of their course? Isn't £9,000 a year from the Student Loans Company enough to educate a student without further grants? Lastly, if you happen to be a bigwig in the Department for Economics and Management Science at Keele University, why not tweak the list? It could include any books published with reasonable reviews or sales. There is also the option of investing a bit of cash in a trust fund, lent-out on P2P lending sites, that in a few decades could be used to fund research privately and save the trouble of asking for state funding. It could be a trust fund controlled by the Association of Heterodox Economics. The first £100 could come from the Fishman Bursary. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Cosmopolitan good? <br />
This overlaps with other paragraphs here about subject-mixing </h4>
Some of the overseas students at Keele from places like Malaysia were so polite that some of them who could afford cars bought UK-made cars in order to fit-in. Another one was keen to say that his parents were middle-class; they weren't oligarchs. The reason for putting a question mark after "good" is that a cut-down economics course, taught in ever-shorter modules and more varied course formats will stretch two things. It will stretch the social skills of students to get to know one or two other students, and it will stretch their ability to learn the peculiarities of any economy - let alone the one where the student will graduate. Economic history, I think, is as much a marmite subject as algebra and although I like it, I can't imagine a college getting a quorum together if a lot of the other students are from other economies. Even if enough students do sit in the same room, it's hard to callibrate the self censorship that makes anyone politely hold-back about polarising subjects, like whether the Co-Op is worth calling a co-op compared to John Lewis, whether trades unions really represent their members, whether benefits are good, ministries competant, and so-on. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i> She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge She studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College, that's where I caught her eye... - <a href="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pulp/commonpeople.html">Pulp</a></i></blockquote>
Topics like social insurance are likely to be lopped-off the course, even though social insurance is the main thing that european govenments do. If the subject is taught, it's likely to be a badly-attended option because if I come from the UK and study in Greece, I won't want to learn about Greek social insurance systems am I? History of recessions is likely be lopped-off for the same reason. Why would I want to learn about the failures of Greek olive harvests and pecularities of an economy when not democratic in the 1950s, or about the tourist and shipping booms, if I come from the UK? The quality of representation by trades unions of their members is not a polite thing to mention; it's a bit controversial, so that will definately be lopped-off as will the economics of individual wage bargainers compared to the economics of unionised wage bargainers. To put it another way, these things would be good to be part of the rest of a students' education but can't be part of a degree studied as a module in one country and 2½ modules in another, not necessarilly learned just by talking to other students. The teaching itself is likely to become a bit like the mid-atlantic music that used to be played on Radio 1 in the Saville and Blackburn years and hated by students. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Other situations exist. The 1960s and 1970s students from Oregon who got points towards their degrees by going with American Heritage to live with an English family might have had much more constrained backgrounds. I don't know if they had to write an essay about the eccentric hosts and the stange silent Eejut-boy from boarding school who sat round family meals in the school holidays as I grew up. I know that one of them was a potential nun who asked "what country is it on the other side of the Thames?" and another - Big David who's dad was a motor trader said "back in the states they would have knocked that down ten years ago" about old buildings. I think that was a joke about himself - it was hard to tell. And another bunch had an accoustic guitar and sang "Puff The Magic Dragon" on the lawn to children, so they taught something too. I think those were situations that existed for students when cheap air travel was new, and how came from a place in the middle of a lot of similar places; they could travel in the US but not learn so much. Now that more people travel around in Europe, it's easier to get a tourist guide to another city, even without paying to live with a family and writing an essay about it; there is less need to travel as part of a degree course now and more need to learn about the system where you live.</blockquote>
I suspect a problem when Oxbridge graduates do short well-funded postgraduate courses in the USA and then drift back - something which at least three recent MPs have done and probably many more. George Osborne "attended" an economics post-graduate course in the states and then drifted back, probably more educated but none the wiser. He had the sense to admit that he just "attended", but others have had the same problem finding out whether the exam is worth taking or they are able to pass it; expectations are so different from course to course and place to place. Ian Duncan Smith pretended to have passed his Italian degree, and the Ethical Fashion Forum person I mentioned earlier did study something at St Martins College, just like the Pulp lyric. Same point from a staff angle <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Keele Management School is seeking [sic] to appoint an outstanding academic at Senior Lecturer level specialising in the area of Economics. The successful applicant will already have a national or international research profile, have contributed to curriculum development and teaching in the subject area and will demonstrate a proven ability to attract external research funding and of providing academic leadership and management. </span> <span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span> <span style="font-size: x-small;"> The Management School has been identified as a strategically important area of development within the University and the successful candidate will have a significant opportunity to help shape this development. The individual appointed will play an active role in the School's research, teaching and enterprise activities and will contribute to the continuing development of the School profile at home and overseas. They will contribute leadership by undertaking research of national and international quality, contributing to the development and delivery of undergraduate and postgraduate programmes and will engage with the School's internationalisation and enterprise engagement agendas. </span> <span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span> <span style="font-size: x-small;"> We encourage applications in all areas of economics but are particularly interested to hear from candidates with strengths in the areas of Macroeconomics and/or International Money and Finance. </span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;">This rules-out a candidate who wants to teach that the EU, as a trading bloc with a lot of social insurance schemes in member countries, needs tariffs to up the price of imports from countries without a social insurance scheme. An applicant for the economics teaching job would be thought difficult to combine with the college's aim of attracting international students, attract research funding from the powers that exist, and if you want to read the cringeingly embarassing blairite bit <i>"engage with the School's internationalisation and enterprise engagement agendas"</i>. Put another way: as a UK taxpayer you are paying for colleges like this one at Keele to preach a form of economics against your own interests. If you believe that social insurance or a welfare state or some-such is good for the people of the world - as I think most people in the UK do - then you pay tax to preachers who are not good for the people of the world.</span><br />
<blockquote>
"Economics as it is taught currently is disconnected from real-world events and policies. In many departments, much of the curricula in the last few decades have slowly lost all mention of contemporary events or facts. This means that students are not being equipped to engage in real-world debates. We believe economics graduates should be prepared to consider and react to the economic problems that the world faces, because societies are shaped by economic events and policies, which are in turn shaped by people’s understandings of economics." - <a href="http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/news/2014/04/manifesto-a-direction-for-the-reform-of-economics-education/">http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/news/2014/04/manifesto-a-direction-for-the-reform-of-economics-education/</a></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"> </span> </div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Expectation of value for money, and others not mentioned by the quango</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to offer courses which are more-or-less free to run, as long as they are more-or-less free to take.</h4>
An online foundation year in economics with cheap guidance to pass online tests would be a good alternative to A-level grades as a way of choosing people to allow to study face-to-face. I am not sure how to make a soft return work on this software today, and so shall add a separate point to the same paragraph. Young students on campuses can do freelance work. Not easily, but with the help of a specially set-up business they might do shifts on stalls or piles of book-keeping. The book-keeping system would be for a qualified, well-proved person to check the work and for students to do it. Initially, firms of accountants might find the book-keeping work but soon a college could offer the package under its own name. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to give parts of the course for free.</h4>
A college in a town could offer free lectures to anyone who turned-up. So a potential economics student could sample some or all of last year's lectures and maybe do a DIY stats course before trying to join the college, getting accepted and paying the fee via the Student Loan Co. <b><br />
<br />
♦ It would be good if more colleges published degree passes online.</b> Without any need to write-in with a signed letter to get a claim of a degree confirmed. That would reduce the share of jobs that go to fake graduates like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Duncan_Smith#Controversy_over_qualifications" target="_blank">Ian Duncan Smith</a>; <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camila_Batmanghelidjh#Early_life">Camila Batmanghelidjh</a> who's degree was in drama, and the person who set-up <a href="http://veganline.com/fair-fashion.htm"><b>Ethical Fashion Forum</b>, the free-trade lobby group</a>. (The Ethical Fashion Forum person has a degree in development practise awarded largely for her work trying to set-up Ethical Fashion Forum and a thesis, but made-up her architecture degree, architecture career, and dress import company called <i>Juste</i>.) A public register would increase job prospects for honest people, and make degree courses better value for money financially. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ The Keele list: noting and contributing to cheap journals</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Cheap journals are a problem. Few if any are free, so there is a cost to students via the library to subscribe. This is backed-up by a document called the Keele List. It would be good if academic employers noted contributions to cheap journals when hiring for jobs. It would be good if staff were encouraged to re-write articles from the most expensive journals into some free wordpress-based thing, so save college libraries having to subscribe to the expensive journal. It would be good if organisations like the Royal Economic Society used their own web sites to publish articles instead of commercial publishers like Wiley or Elsevier. The technology already exists on their web site - <a href="http://www.res.org.uk/view/economicCurrentIssue.html">http://www.res.org.uk/view/economicCurrentIssue.html</a> - but they use it to divert readers to a subscription service at Wiley. It could be good if new papers were published in some peer-reviewed wordpress blogs. I don't recommend blogspot and publish here by mistake, but xyz.wordpress.com is free, while Wordpress on a free server costs only the price of a domain name. A stickler for publisher's rights might say that the price paid to journals helps publishers keep-up the quality of contributions. My mum was secretary to the person under the person under Robert Maxwell at Pergamon Press, now Elsevier, that published new 1950s things like Journal of Transport Research and so <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economics-teaching.html">Professor Fishman and J Stewart Wabe</a>'s rather good article on car clubs. My mother didn't think much of Maxwell as an employer, and refugee employees got far worse working conditions than UK-borne ones. Maxwell only got the complete ownershop by tricking and bullying his partner out of the role, and continued into newspaper ownership in the same way. Although my mother worked for Maxwell, I don't think she'd miss his successor's right to subscription fees from university libraries; I think she'd quite like them to break free.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Shorter courses in economics can include a history of the subject as free video</h4>
It would be easy to offer a video list as well as a book list and a lecture list to students, with little pressure to study in depth or pass anything. The purpose would be to teach the history of a subject as background. The history of statistics could help students get the hang of how their stats manual comes to be, other than the obvious purpose of helping solve useful stats problems. The history of economics could help students get the hang of how their economics comes to be, other than the obvious purpose of being worse than useless.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Expectations are hard to manage among economics students</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq ">
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ The quango suggests some student expectations</h4>
Expectation B could well be the same as benchmark standards specific to each subject, with the ones for economics is at the bottom of this page. The idea of an expectation for each subject has a down-side, which is that most courses follow it. I imagine that if a course wanted to offer something else it would be legal if well-described to applicants and anyone who asked, but am not too sure. My course was much shorter than most in the 80s, and spent most of its time on the theoretical parts of the first two or three points, or B-expectations, or benchmarks. 1) concepts, principals & tools 2) distinctive economic theories, interpretations, modelling approaches 3) how to use how to use quantitative methods effectively across a range of problems These were taught to the "threshold level", rather than to the point that they could used, and anything extra was squeezed-in to the course at a kind of minimal level to scrape-past external examinors' reviews. Now that more economics courses are short, there's more need to teach the application of theory at the same time as teaching the theory in order to avoid making the same mistake. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Economics students' own expectations are very tricky to manage</h4>
When I did an English half-degree, I didn't have expectations. I didn't so much care that it covered Victorian poetry that doesn't exist, or Milton who is just bad in every way, and other old fiction. I hadn't done English before and just thought it was funny to be allowed to play and get life experience and that was it. It worked by teaching from an original source, and then finding something to say about it rather than listing some theories in case one day in life they allow you to have something to day, as Economics was taught. When I did the other half of my joint degree in Economics, I was taught a lot of old fiction on my economics course and I notice. Economics suffers from expectations.. There's a comparison to hospital complaints that says the same thing. Apparently the maternity ward gets the most complaints because the expectant have something clear in their minds when they arrive. If you give them a three-legged dog or a cat or the slightest little thing they get tetchy and they complain or they sue or make a fuss. I suppose it's the same with serious courses for jobs or for understanding how the economy works, except that economics students might expect quite opposite things to each other. Some want to be seconded from a career in order to learn obvious stuff faster and prove they know it. A sub-group take the same course in vein hope of a career. A third group want life experience and to sort the world out. As a note in the student halls of residents said - <i>"Conference delegates and students are notoriously bad mixers".</i> <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ I don't know how to match a good syllabus to informed demand.</h4>
If economics students all wanted the same boring thing, they might give the same reviews as people on courses for pharmacy or surveying or accountancy. Students of subjects I'd expect to be boring seem to know what to expect as well; they suffer quietly. I think that a college manager, seeing bad reviews, should do one or two things. The first and most obvious is to expand popular courses and contract unpopular ones, slowly to avoid redundancy costs. This might be balanced against some greater good like wanting to teach useful subjects, but otherwise the market could decide. The second is also obvious but worth saying in case one person says it differently to another. It is to put time and thought into describing what badly-reviewed courses can do for the next generation of students and what they can't do. Students reviewers should be as careful when reviewing courses and probably harder on the bad ones. Maybe there ought to be separate streams of study for the students who want separate things as well. I saw a comment on The Student Room like <i>"why do you want to study macro-economics when it's so hard to prove anything?"</i>. As a student I was opposite; I couldn't see the point of studying how to run a stall in place of, maybe, running a stall. (If the course had included time spent running a stall in a market I might have been more interested: I think fashion courses ought to include that, and a chance to do freelance work as part of a practical course could have made it worthwhile.) One syllabus at SOAS quoted a <i>"course outcome"</i>, which was that students should be able to state the application of its statistics course to real situations. In other words, it's the students' job to think of a use for this stuff. Sir Humphrey would be proud, but there's a better way of doing it. Solve problems statistics as a way of teaching it, and good reviews will follow. If theories and maths don't come-up as ways of solving problems, they don't need to be on the course.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Trying to manage expectations among economics students</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to have some kind of feedback form for students to comment on job ads for new staff</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
This could be organised without the college's permission, by a student society or a group like rethinking economics, on a wiki. I hope that students would comment on the advert above and ask: how is it relevant to what I want to study? Quite likely, students would not have much to say, but if feedback helped match staff skills to student hopes, that would be good.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to use external course reviewers who do not teach economics, but a more trusted and satisfying subject like English or History or Engineering</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Otherwise there's a risk of one disappointing economist signing-off another disappointing economist's course, as happened at <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economics-teaching.html">Keele from 1969-1987</a>. For example signing-off a course that doesn't offer tutorials, or a course where students cannot assume sincerity in the theories given because officially they are "models"; a course where it's admitted that teachers teach theories they know to be untrue, without due health warnings and explanation. Examples are <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>the need to close UK factories with monetary policy in order to reduce inflation (it works by subsidising cheap imports), or </li>
<li>ignoring the benefits of social insurance and human rights when setting tariffs between Europe and Bangladesh or China. </li>
</ul>
Both topics are taught in a way that I think reflects lobbying of grandiose teachers by even grander lobbyists, probably in the USA where some senior economics teachers <a href="http://www.wsj.com/public/article/SB117426729190341036-uV848VEWNL_0FjfAvuWltVqY5K8_20070327.html">make more of their money by consultancy than by lecturing students</a> and <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/jun/30/uk-universities-better-education-dont-be-seduced-by-us">don't even bother with tutorials</a>. In a sentence, the consensus is set by the wrong people. In mundane reality, textbooks have to sell in West Virginia. The country with a lot of econonomics taboos is also the country with a lot of students on minor or introductory courses who particularly want the 500 page textbook, officially published for students worldwide but particularly published for those annoying rednecks in West Virginia who won't tolerate a textook with a chapter on social insurance. Unistats shows that economics is more disappointing than other technical or social science subjects. </div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Better economics teaching: teaching everything at once in a way yet to be invented</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Learning without doing is a problem at colleges.</h4>
If students were to learn about some theory or other from selling on eBay, or attempting low-budget arbitrage on financial markets, or analysing real firms that ask for <a href="http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/compare/" target="_blank">P2P loans</a>, then there would be real life to go with the theory. A course could be advertised as based on whatever the open university uses, but with a good chance of using real data as well if staff are available. Since I wrote that I discovered that someone else has had the same idea. Q-step is the search term. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Starting with problems to solve is good</h4>
Students with different expectations separate themselves according to the problems they want to solve - whether "unemployment" or "selling golf tickets". Also, students learn two things at once; they learn the problem and the attempted solution. The Open University programs The Catch and London's Markets are rather long for someone who just wants to tick-off the microeconomics part of their course, but they do cover loads of random information about the fish industry which is worth watching for that alone. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Picking theories to solve a problem is good</h4>
Theories with little use are then left at the back of the theory box. Unexpected theories are invented or dredged-up from other parts of life. For example, if the problem is inflation, then better markets that help people find cheaper suppliers could be an answer. Now that global transport is so good, inflation isn't so much of a problem but the taxing of multinational companies becomes a problem instead. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Research is considered a Good Thing by outsiders. I don't see why college students don't do the research, rather than their teachers trying to do it in the lunch break.</h4>
Or do it together with students, at least. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ I re-named this box to "teaching everything at once in a way yet to be invented", because that's what it suggests, but perhaps people who know more about teaching can tell whether it makes sense.</h4>
</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Hope: dealing with the algebra thing</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Hard sciences are hard because of the way they're taught.</h4>
</div>
They have the same problem as economics. They are loosing student numbers. They are taught, I guess from reviews, in the same way. There ought to be conversion courses for people who have only ever taught by lecturing about algebra to see what other departments do and give the techniques a try. Maybe the more obscure and smaller colleges should pay their staff for time spent studying second or third undergraduate degrees, just to learn how other subjects work. Maybe there is something relevant in the Nuffield Foundation's <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/support-programme-0">Q-step</a> program, after their rather wonderful Nuffield Physics A-level course proved to me years ago that you don't need very complex maths to understand things; you can discover a lot just by looking at the objects. <br />
<br />
I don't know if their A-level stats material is any better than anybody else's, but <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/fsmqs/level-3-data-analysis">here is the link just in case</a>. There is an opposite point of view which I don't understand but quote anyway. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/aug/04/economics.alevels">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/aug/04/economics.alevels</a> <br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<br />
I don't understand why it takes complex maths to know why a teapot factory closes. If it did require complex maths, I doubt the data is available; national data is rather aggregated. It doesn't tell you who makes teapots and who makes coffee pots - just some grant heading like "manufacturing".</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Stop teaching pure mathematics</h4>
The course at Leicester Uni that has more statistics in it gets worse reviews than the one with more applications. This could be because people who like pure maths get to study it and then go-on to teach statistics, to people who don't like pure maths. If lots of colleges teach a useless subject, there will be a glut of graduates in that subject and they will find ways of teaching other subjects, just as latin graduates were one common as UK school teachers. If the supply of pure maths graduates was reduced, that could be a good thing. It could force non mathematicians to fill any necessary gaps. I am sure they would do a less nerdy job, because I think maths is more of a mental condition than a science. I am sure they would do a job more understandable for students; the origin of a technique in engineering or surveying or whatever applied field would be more obvious. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Start using paragraphs and prose</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
For some reason, economics teachers think that students would have trouble reading Keynes. I haven't yet tried it but the preface is OK. I do know that more and more people read stuff online and more and more people mix-up subjects, so the chances are that someone thought not to be able to read Keynes on their economics course is reading some obtuse book for another course at the same time in the same college.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Hope: information that is more than just fit for purpose</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to warn if a course copes with proper controversy and problem solving.</h4>
This is the BBC programme <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03gk743/greece-with-simon-reeve-episode-1">Greece with Simon Reeve</a>: <i>"with youth unemployment over 50% it's no surprise that so many of the young are angry at everything they associate with the establishment who they think have messed-up Greece".</i> This is a problem for teachers. One year they're teaching students who do an Economics Joint Honours degree because they think it goes well with Golf Studies. Or want to know financial markets so well they can make a living on arbitrage. The next year there's a financial crisis and people want to know why factories are closing and taxes aren't being paid. On top of that there are fewer students. Swansea Uni has lost a lot of applicants recently. Those cross ones that turn-up are also more worried about living costs and finding work after graduating. When I studied there were maintenance grants that allowed more people to study, so more of the cross ones got a chance. At least Greek economists are aware of the situation and one tried being Prime Minister. My course in the same situation in 1980s Britain was taught by a man unaware of the problem. When asked why the latest factory had closed he just tried to think of a micro-economic answer and then said <i>"I don't know"</i>. There was pretend controversy like Punch and Judy. One of the textbooks said so in the title. It was called <i>"Macro-economics An introduction to Keynesian-Neoclassical controversies"</i>, but that's different to the controversy outside the window of 4 million people unemployed and a fifth of manufacturing already closed by one daft policy which a student reasonably expects to talk about. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to separate economics from management schools</h4>
When economics started, with its grand 1950s Macro theories, it was a replacement to the quaint little old subject of Business Administration which can't easily be scrubbed-up to look like a degree for undergraduates. People were sent on the course by their employers, along with touch-typing and shorthand, and that's still how management schools should be used; to put "business" in the title of a university department doesn't make sense. Graduate prospects prove the point. If you are not an employee, and want to study business, you would do better with a stall and a web site and some P2P lending investments, then to do a short course while you are trading. If you are not an employee or a stallholder, you end-up on the dole as a business graduate. I exaggerate a bit - I'm thinking of <a href="https://www.uel.ac.uk/Undergraduate/Courses/BA-Hons-Hospitality-Management">University of East London's hospitality degree</a> - but the same is partly true of a lot of people who graduate in management. They're a different bunch to the people who study economics alongside politics or something else, and could maybe find a trade at the end of it all with a bit of help. <br />
<br />
<b>♦ Good to offer an A level course for people who haven't done it before</b><br />
The syllabuses will be on web sites linked from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_boards_in_the_United_Kingdom">Wikipedia on A-levels</a>, and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_school_leaving_qualifications">similar</a> <br />
That way, students who haven't done the first year of the course before will get a certificate for it, and students who have done the first year before will know that this is a bad idea. They'll either not come on the course or they'll ask for a separate teaching stream that's just a quick revision. <br />
<br />
♦ <b>Good to offer a course for A-level economists without maths</b><br />
<i>"The aim is to introduce Economics in the analytical manner commonly adopted at University level. (Students should be aware that it is now accepted wisdom that those with A level Economics do less well in Economics degree results than those without A level Economics.)" - Keele Economics prospectus, 1996 describing the economics introductory course. </i>I don't believe that university teaching is more analytical; I think it just has more twiddly bits added to the standard theories, if I judge from student feedback online and my own Keele study, ten years earlier. If university teaching were more based on facts, then it would be more analytical, but I don't remember many clear facts used and the international nature of university economics teaching can make a lot of the teachers and texts more ignorant of the UK economy than a typical A-level class.<br />
<br />
Rather than more analytical, I remember the maths component being worse edited.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Here is an example from <i><u>Economics, British Edition</u>, Begg, 1984, p439:</i><br />
Retail price indexes are shown in a table as 237.7 for 1981; 218.9 in 1982.<br />
<i>"The annual inflation rate is simply the percentage increase in the RPI over the corresponding figure one year earlier. Thus in 1982 the 8.6 per cent inflation rate is calculated from </i><br />
<br />
<i>100% × (237.7 - 218.9) / 218.9 = 8.6%"</i><br />
<br />
Here is a less twiddley way of saying it: 237.7 / 218.9 is 1.085; 108.6% higher, showing an annual inflation rate of 8.6%.</blockquote>
<b>♦ Good to say the reasons a course is hard to teach. </b><br />
<br />
Where a college currently states "buzz" and "vibrant" as characteristics, in the softer part of their descriptions, they could include a video interview with the department boss saying what the course is good for and who has been disappointed in the past. For example I read that people with economics A level are particularly disappointed with economics degrees and do worse at them. That's weird. It would be a good thing to mention in a few paragraphs of prose or a video. Peer-review teachers from other colleges should ask for this too. For example they should ask Keele Economics teachers could say something about how their short courses compare with economics as part of PPE, and demonstrate that they are aware of how other teachers cope, and how a course suits some kinds of students better than others. I don't know if Keele offers more chopped-up courses than other colleges now, but it did when I was there in the 80s so I pick that example. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Maybe award points on top of the standard UCAS score for subject mixers</h4>
The idea of a specialist who has done three social sciences at A-level at an academic school, does a full-time degree in the one subject of economics, and then perhaps does a post-graduate qualification is good. There's nothing wrong with it. A note saying that subject-mixers are given slightly better offers on a college web site could help applicants, if it also helps teachers and students on the course. Meanwhile, shrinking colleges have to think which exam-flunking students to accept from the UCAS clearing system. If a course suits subject-mixers, who have more trouble getting good grades, then maybe a college offering that couse should consider lower scores from subject mixers. If I remember the system from school, the best grades went to people who did double maths and traditional physics for three A-levels, the next best went to people who did all essay-based or all science-based subjects, next came subject-mixers, and then came people who got rather cross with life or school as teenagers which is common. These people would do worse at A-level than at mock A-level exams a year earlier. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Maybe design bits of courses for subject mixers</h4>
If you have enough students studying English and Economics, it would be good for them to have an option to write an economic analysis of a Jane Austin novel or a literary criticism of Paul Samuelson's 1948 textbook. If possible. I don't know if somone in an economics department could do a lecture to Eng. Lit students on economic history at the time of Jane Austin or Dickens. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Good to mention nuffield science subjects as a good grounding and make sure that it is, because it it should be.</h4>
Students who have done <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/education">Nuffield science subject</a>s know that algebra and shorthand is a way of showing-off and complicating, that distracts from the pattern. They expect to be told the reasons for things rather than a formula with <i>"Fred's Law"</i> written after it. This can only be good for an economics department. I suggest that college staff should sometimes try to keep-up with what Nuffield Foundation teaching is like, and what ex Nuffield A-level students think of their current economics course. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Extra boxes on feedback forms: do you know of other science courses that have influenced your verdict, such as types of A-level or other friends and family doing other economics courses?</h4>
It's already noted on some academic prospectuses that people who have done A-level Economics do less well than those who approach the subject fresh, which is odd. There's an example of an economics professor's own child failing an economics degree on another page here, which might be a lead for research too. Maybe there is some way of getting contact details for lots of economics undergraduates who have family members teaching the same subject, and to find out what they think and whether they passed the exam.<br />
<br />
<b>♦ Craft courses</b><br />
Grammer schools and universities were designed, I guess, to lift students out of practicality into the worlds of latin and algebra. As more universities and grammar schools sprang-up, the polytechnics joined-in too because these courses have a higher social status, are cheap to teach, and attract lots of applicants for teaching jobs as well as student places.<br />
<br />
Some craft courses like phychology can be interesting in themselves, but easily adapt to the trade of being a psychologist. If there is a good supply of psychologist courses, or people enjoyed the course as general education, that's good.<br />
<br />
Some craft courses like law lead to jobs that are over-applied for, so that students have to start at the beginning again as barely-paid or unpaid articled clerks in solicitors' offices just to get the work experience that employers want to go alongside a degree. The same is true, I guess, of journalism or fashion design. These are courses that should really only be taught to people on a sandwich scheme - combined study and work experience. One of the problems is that students are not helped to become self-employed or join new firms. There can be a shortage of cheap lawyers and a shortage of jobs for law graduates at the same time; colleges need to bridge the gap somehow by setting-up law firms with expert supervision, or training students in self-employment.<br />
<br />
Some craft courses like fashion manufacturing, scaffolding, plastering, or maybe shorthand, lead to jobs that you can get if there isn't a recession. Even in a recession, there is a chance of self-employment if you find some niche market like scaffolding for windmills (I guess) or some such. So there is scope to offer craft courses as minor subjects alongside economics, just to get people started in work when they graduate.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Trade qualifications and help with self-employment bundled with a degree course</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ I don't know if there are any trade qualifications that could be combined-into an economics degree.</h4>
<a href="http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/">Bookkeepers.org.uk</a> show an Ex-MP trying to earn money from book-keeping so maybe students could do it. (The professor at Keele had worked as a docker and company finance manager in between teaching jobs, although you wouldn't guess it from meeting him.) It isn't a requirement to do book-keeping but it is a confidence-booster. Ulster University managed to get the first third of an accountancy trade qualification combined into their economics degree, but then left a lot of graduates reporting £14,000 a year salaries after graduation because the ulster economy had no need of so many trainee accountants to do the second and third parts of the training on the job at an existing firm. I don't know if there are similar certificates available for doing <a href="http://r4stats.com/articles/popularity/">commonly advertised jobs in software that economists might use</a>. For example, some freelancers' web sites have online certificates in using certain pieces of software. I left college during a recession and see that lots of people get some kind of job after graduation nowadays, but recessions come round again and McJobs are hard to escape. There are also courses like Hospitality and Tourism Studies at the University of East London that have strangely few employed graduates. My hunch is that students should learn a free or open source piece of software for any freelance work they do, and an in-demand one for getting advertised jobs, if that's different. And an NVQ in frying chips if that suits the course. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ In a college that does a lot of short courses as well as the main subject(s)</h4>
A course on autism from the Psychology and History departments would be good, for the benefit of science and social science students who should have it as a compulsory course. I don't know anything much about autism but feel clever for having written this here. The idea is that a lot of scientists like Turing and Newton have been a bit odd, and with the help of the college system of their times have done well, but maybe their oddness has effected the textbooks and teaching traditions over the years. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
♦ Better economics funding already exists if students give fair reviews</h4>
The student loan system and the national student survey are annoying. A grant for students to live on would be nice. Repeated reviewing is not nice. But there is some sense to idea of money following the student. I remember the system of most money following the organisation, and have worked in systems like that. Power follows the money down the funding chain, with the provider and customer fighting for bottom place on the chain. Machiavellian grandees discuss the funding body's latest policies in hushed tones. The current system allows most money to follow the student, so that popular courses - not just popular colleges - can expand, if they do it gradually without becoming unpopular. The courses like Glasgow Uni Economics that sit first year students in front of robotic computer programs for a year will get less applicants. Interesting courses like the one at Kingston will get more. As there are far more graduates than jobs requiring graduates, people will think: "If I'm not enjoying this and not getting a better career, why do it?". If students are absolutely fair in advising each next generation of students what to expect, then the worst courses will close and that will be a good thing. If courses are absolutely fair and detailed in saying what they offer, then fewer students will go on the wrong course and give bad reviews. Someone might even find a way of setting-up good degree courses from scratch for less money. All you need is ivy, somewhere to sit, and access to degree-awarding powers. I benefit from the grand distance of a blogger. I am sure things are not nearly as grand and clear as this in practise.<br />
<br />
A newspaper article about job prospects said that a degree from a Russell Group University would get you a job interview; a degree from University of Surrey will not, and to pretend so is to lie to course applicants, even (by implication) they have to go on a worse course to get the kudos. I think the example was law degrees and the kind of solicitors' firms that have stratospheric salaries for partners at the top with next to no pay for new recruits at the bottom. I have no idea what a Russell Group University is and don't want to know.<br />
<br />
Another example "Everyone came across as very smart and terribly eloquent – with a shared frame of reference that I just didn’t get. When I told my minister that I’d gone to Keele University, she responded sniffily, “That’s not on the list, is it?” I still don’t know what list she meant." - <a href="https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2016/08/09/are-there-any-senior-civil-servants-with-a-working-class-background/">quote from a civil servant</a><br />
<br />
The solution to this snobbery is for snobs to stop being snobs, but until that happens there is a next-best solution, which is for more people to become self-employed and set their own rules of snobbery if they ever become employers. This ought to be easy among professionals setting-up law firms. Slightly harder among manufacturers, but nonconformists did a good job helping the industrial revolution get going when they weren't allowed to go to Oxford and Cambridge; maybe non-snobs can do the same now.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The need not to teach things twice to the same students after A-level<br />
The possibility of cheap courses</span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
There are plenty of colleges with vice chancellors earning ten average wages, plus air fairs to liaise with other similar vice chancellors around the world. It would be nice if teachers and students could get together in some way that ♦ Got degrees for some of the students - maybe from a distance learning college ♦ Taught good things with small tutorials ♦ Met somewhere nice and comfy, near cheap places to stay, or near where applicants already live. Maybe in rooms above council libraries. Ivy would be nice. Big chairs. Good coffee. Wifi. A view out of the window. ♦ Had a workload compatible with living on a very low wage or working alongside ♦ Often lead to life experience outside of study for students who wanted it ♦ Might combine with some available job for people who wanted to work their passage ♦ Was recognised by the Student Loans Company, the UCAS clearning system, and Unistats. For example the worst-rated college on Unistats at Burnley is a place that coaches for degrees at Huddersfield University; it doesn't award degrees but it is part of the system that attracts students. <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/academicservices/library/specialcollections/libraryexhibition/022%20Short%20Loan%201986.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"> </a></div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-left: auto; margin-right: 0px; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/academicservices/library/specialcollections/libraryexhibition/022%20Short%20Loan%201986.jpg" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="Nuffield Library, Keele University 1986. A standard looking desk for students to borrow dozens of copies of the same book for a short period, allowing a foundation year course to a large number of students to run without massive book-buying costs to them" border="0" height="240" src="https://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/academicservices/library/specialcollections/libraryexhibition/022%20Short%20Loan%201986.jpg" title="" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr align="right"><td class="tr-caption">Keele library kept dozens of copies of books in the short-term loan section, so that dozens of students on the same course could borrow at once. The section began with a grant from the Nuffield Foundation</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
♦ Had a fund for buying second-hand text books and donating them to local libraries so that enough are available for everyone to borrow whatever's needed each week. This idea is in response to <a href="http://collegemisery.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/why-i-love-this-place.html">http://collegemisery.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/why-i-love-this-place.html</a> which suggests perception of high book costs by students, who don't have an income and don't choose the book list directly. <a href="http://saylor.org/">Saylor.org</a> is a good example for finding copywrite-free sources that are easy to find online, but they have trouble and state that most of their <a href="https://legacy.saylor.org/">https://legacy.saylor.org/</a> courses are cancelled for lack of copywrite-free sources. Second-hand printed copies are another way-around. (The college where I studied had a £20,000 grant from the Nuffield Foundation to run-short term library loans to people mainly on a foundation year. The system was staffed and stocked to lend-out 20 or 50 copies of the same book in the same week if planned in advance with teaching staff. Keele Foundation Year was an unusual scheme in the UK in the mid 1960s when the grant was given, so similar applications may not get the same response now, but I think it was money well-spent. The current web site even has a photo of the short term loan desk from 1986, when libraries looked pretty much as they did thirty years before or after). I don't think that any of these things requires a vice chancellor on ten average wages. The course would need to find a degree awarding body to co-operate and write a syllabus, or use an existing one. There is only one distance learning economics course listed on Unistats, which is the £5,000 Open University one, but there are plenty of part time ones which somebody keen could research further. Somehow, in my head, part-time and distance learning are connected. Anyway, sufficient demand could persuade these colleges to tweak their offer, and some UK colleges offer distance learning to people outside the UK so they might be persuadable. I have another post about unistats on the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a> page which shows whether any of these are notorious. <br />
<ol class="resultsList">
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007760PT-UBSECNMC_C/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007760PT-UBSECNMC_C/ReturnTo/" id="add10007760PT-UBSECNMC_C" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Birkbeck, University of London "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Birkbeck, University of London</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007760/ReturnTo/Search">Birkbeck, University of London</a> <b>1 location:</b> Birkbeck College - Bloomsbury Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007854PT-L100/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007854PT-L100/ReturnTo/" id="add10007854PT-L100" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Cardiff Metropolitan University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Cardiff Metropolitan University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional foundation year</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007854/ReturnTo/Search">Cardiff Metropolitan University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Llandaff Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007144PT-SD0408/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007144PT-SD0408/ReturnTo/" id="add10007144PT-SD0408" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at The University of East London "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at The University of East London</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional year abroad</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007144/ReturnTo/Search">The University of East London</a> <b>1 location:</b> Stratford Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007146PT-K0034/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007146PT-K0034/ReturnTo/" id="add10007146PT-K0034" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at University Of Greenwich "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at University Of Greenwich</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional sandwich year, Optional year abroad</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007146/ReturnTo/Search">University Of Greenwich</a> <b>1 location:</b> Greenwich Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007147PT-BSBEC-ECONOMICS/ReturnTo/Search">BA (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007147PT-BSBEC-ECONOMICS/ReturnTo/" id="add10007147PT-BSBEC-ECONOMICS" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at University Of Hertfordshire "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at University Of Hertfordshire</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional sandwich year, Optional year abroad</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007147/ReturnTo/Search">University Of Hertfordshire</a> <b>1 location:</b> University Of Hertfordshire </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10003678PT-HBS2009HFECO/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10003678PT-HBS2009HFECO/ReturnTo/" id="add10003678PT-HBS2009HFECO" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Kingston University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at Kingston University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional year abroad</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10003678/ReturnTo/Search">Kingston University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Kingston University </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10004048PT-UDECNMIC/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10004048PT-UDECNMIC/ReturnTo/" id="add10004048PT-UDECNMIC" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at London Metropolitan University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at London Metropolitan University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional sandwich year</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10004048/ReturnTo/Search">London Metropolitan University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Moorgate Site </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10004078PT-4421A/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10004078PT-4421A/ReturnTo/" id="add10004078PT-4421A" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at London South Bank University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Economics at London South Bank University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional year abroad</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10004078/ReturnTo/Search">London South Bank University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Southwark Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10000291PT-K00342/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Business Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10000291PT-K00342/ReturnTo/" id="add10000291PT-K00342" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Business Economics at Anglia Ruskin University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Business Economics at Anglia Ruskin University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10000291/ReturnTo/Search">Anglia Ruskin University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Cambridge Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007760PT-UBSFIECO_C/ReturnTo/Search">BSc (Hons) Financial Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007760PT-UBSFIECO_C/ReturnTo/" id="add10007760PT-UBSFIECO_C" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Financial Economics at Birkbeck, University of London "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Financial Economics at Birkbeck, University of London</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007760/ReturnTo/Search">Birkbeck, University of London</a> <b>1 location:</b> Birkbeck College - Bloomsbury Campus </div>
</li>
<li> <h2>
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007854PT-L101/ReturnTo/Search">BA (Hons) Business Economics</a></h2>
<a class="addShortlist" href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Shortlist/Add/10007854PT-L101/ReturnTo/" id="add10007854PT-L101" title="Compare stats with other courses by shortlisting Business Economics at Cardiff Metropolitan University "> Compare<span class="invisible"> stats with other courses by shortlisting Business Economics at Cardiff Metropolitan University</span> </a> <div class="institution-characteristics">
Part time, Optional foundation year</div>
<div class="insititutionName">
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10007854/ReturnTo/Search">Cardiff Metropolitan University</a> <b>1 location:</b> Llandaff Campus </div>
</li>
</ol>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Current National Student Survey questions,</span> including optional follow-up questions and extra questions for NHS students</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf">https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf</a></div>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Main Questionnaire</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
The teaching on my course</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
1. Staff are good at explaining things. 2. Staff have made the subject interesting. 3. Staff are enthusiastic about what they are teaching. 4. The course is intellectually stimulating.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Assessment and feedback</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
5. The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance. 6. Assessment arrangements and marking have been fair. 7. Feedback on my work has been prompt. 8. I have received detailed comments on my work. 9. Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Academic support</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
10. I have received sufficient advice and support with my studies. 11. I have been able to contact staff when I needed to. 12. Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Organisation and management</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
13. The timetable works efficiently as far as my activities are concerned. 14. Any changes in the course or teaching have been communicated effectively. 15. The course is well organised and is running smoothly. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Learning resources</h4>
16. The library resources and services are good enough for my needs. 17. I have been able to access general IT resources when I needed 18. I have been able to access specialised equipment, facilities, or rooms when I needed to.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Personal development</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
19. The course has helped me to present myself with confidence. 20. My communication skills have improved. 21. As a result of the course, I feel confident in tackling unfamiliar problems. 22. Overall, I am satisfied with the quality of the course. Looking back on the experience, are there any particularly positive or negative aspects you would like to highlight? (Please use the boxes below.)</div>
<fieldset>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
</fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
National Student Survey Bank of Questions (Optional)</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B1. Careers</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
As a result of my course, I believe that I have improved my career prospects Good advice is available for making career choices Good advice is available on further study opportunities N/A</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B2. Course Content and Structure</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
All of the compulsory modules are relevant to my course There is an appropriate range of options to choose from on my course The modules of my course form a coherent integrated whole</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B3. Work Placements</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Did your course involve any work placements? Yes (ask all questions in this section) No (skip this section) I received sufficient support and advice from my institution about the organisation of my placements My placements were valuable in helping my learning My placements have helped me to develop my skills in relation to my course My placements have helped me to develop my general life skills The taught part of my course was good preparation for my placements</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B4. Social Opportunities</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had plenty of opportunities to interact socially with other students I am satisfied with the range of clubs and societies on offer I am satisfied with the range of entertainment and social events on offer</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B5. Course Delivery</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Learning materials made available on my course have enhanced my learning The range and balance of approaches to teaching has helped me to learn The delivery of my course has been stimulating My learning has benefited from modules that are informed by current research Practical activities on my course have helped me to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B6. Feedback from Students</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had adequate opportunities to provide feedback on all elements of my course My feedback on the course is listened to and valued It is clear to me how students comments on the course have been acted upon</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B7. The Physical Environment</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Security has been satisfactory when attending classes My institution provides an appropriate environment in which to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B8. Welfare Resources and Facilities</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
There is sufficient provision of welfare and student services to meet my needs. When needed, the information and advice offered by welfare and student services has been helpful</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B9. Workload</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The workload on my course is manageable This course does not apply unnecessary pressure on me as a student</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The volume of work on my course means I can always complete it to my satisfaction I am generally given enough time to understand the things I have to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B10. Assessment</h4>
Teaching staff test what I have understood rather than what I have memorised Assessment methods employed in my course require an in-depth understanding of the course content <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B11. Learning Community</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I feel part of a group of students committed to learning I have been able to explore academic interests with other students I have learnt to explore ideas confidently within my course, I feel my suggestions and ideas are valued I feel part of an academic community in my college or university</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B12. Intellectual Motivation</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have found the course motivating. The course has stimulated my interest in the field of study The course has stimulated my enthusiasm for further learning</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
National Student Survey Questions for NHS-Funded Students only</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
N3 Practise placements</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I received sufficient preparatory information prior to my placement(s) I was allocated placement(s) suitable for my course. I received appropriate supervision on placement(s) I was given opportunities to meet my required practise learning outcomes / competences. My contribution during placement(s) as part of the clinical team was value. My practise supervisor(s) understood how my placement(s)related to the broader requirements of my course. N/A</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Other posts about economics teaching</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">ukgovernmentconsultations - migration advisory committee call for evidence on the effect of international students</a><br />
International students' effect on providers in expensive areas who provide the worst courses<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan shoes boots belts and jackets">The author sells vegan shoes online at Veganline.com</a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-79717902616678212082016-01-04T19:23:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:23:04.884+01:00no such thing as a free phone<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Introduction: <br />
I don't know how to get a landline number for free to a mobile, but I do know the formula for getting a cheap mobile or smartphone and pay as you go sim card in the UK.<br />
Scroll down for the clearer bits. </span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<br />
Almost free phones exist if you get the best value pay-as-you-go sim card and put it in some inherited or cheaply-bought mobile phone, saving the <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>price a bamboozlement contract and </li>
<li>work of understanding the contract: if it's complicated, it's not worth understanding.</li>
</ul>
Incoming calls from a number that looks like a landline are another good thing to have if you're in business. I hope someone can tell me about how to get them.<br />
<br />
As I do my tax return I discover that one of the items is a monthly £15-£20 to Virgin Media for a landline, which I am scared to give-up in case my <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Veganline.com for vegan shoes online since 1998 and mainly made in the UK">shoe shop</a> customers think a mobile number is dodgy or expensive to call. If I could find a way to add a respectable-looking landline number to a free way of receiving calls on a mobile, that would be worth up to £240 a year. Even if I had all the money I could ever need, £240 saved last year could have earned another £24 this year on a P2P money site paying about 10% and double every seven and a bit years, allowing me to pay the taxpayer for my care home costs if I get old, or maybe leave a trust fund for that purpose that pays 5% towards care for the old and 5% re-investment.<br />
<br />
So, if anyone knows the answer, please post a link to how to get a free landline-looking number for a phone without this £15 monthly bill. Or a link to where the subject is discussed.</fieldset>
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="color: red;">Incoming calls and landline numbers for mobiles</span> - Voip or mobile for incoming calls? - cheapest sim-only calls -cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked - Cheapest SIM-only phone calls - Cheapish smartphones secondhand</span></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Voip or mobile for incoming calls?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
I don't know quite how easy VOIP is to install, but it is potentially free. Maybe someone will tell me what's good value. I should do some homework from this list:<br />
<a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/free-international-phone-calls">https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/free-international-phone-calls</a><br />
<br />
The specific need is for a service that links to a cheap or free landline-style number, and works over wifi on a smartphone.<br />
<br />
This is work in progress.<br />
<br />
http://free03numbers.com has customers with a free UK a landline-like number beginning 03303 and then six non-memorable digits. It is not taking new customers this April 2017 after "instability" in November.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.03numbersforfree.co.uk/">http://www.03numbersforfree.co.uk</a> connect to a voip address for free on their advanced option, or a UK landline beginning 01, but not a mobile.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.localphone.com/incoming_numbers/united_kingdom/london_2031">https://www.localphone.com/incoming_numbers/united_kingdom/london_2031</a> offer a landline style number for 90p a month including tax. The number can be connected to a mobile but charges localphone's rates for incoming calls. It can be connected free to their own voip software; I'm not sure whether this includes their app for smartphones.<br />
<br />
The next stage is to understand their suggestions of what to connect this number to; what to type into the boxes if you open a free account on their web site. There is a 1.5p charge each minute for connecting it to a mobile (otherwise you have to give-out a mobile number which might put customers off) but none for VOIP. Free03numbers.com have a video saying what to type if you know the answer, but not to say whether asterisk or skype or whatever is best to choose. They have a list of sites to try.<br />
<br />
Voip also offers cheap outbound calls, but frankly that isn't a problem; email does the job and mobile works for emergencies.<br />
<br />
The simplest solution is to learn nothing about voip and have two mobiles, with one turned-on for work. Callers just have to get used to calling a mobile number. This could be the way to go, as all of them order online nowadays; none rings and says "can I have a catalogue please". One or two a day ring saying "This is Microsoft asking for your passwords"; I don't know if that's worse or better on a mobile number.</fieldset>
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Incoming calls and landline numbers for mobiles - <span style="color: red;">Voip or mobile for incoming calls?</span> - cheapest sim-only calls -cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked - Cheapest SIM-only phone calls - Cheapish smartphones secondhand </span></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Cheapest SIM-only phone calls: </span><a href="https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/">https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/</a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
This information is important, because once you have got a good Pay-as-you-go sim, you can choose any second hand mobile phone that works on the same network or is unlocked. You may already have one in a drawer somewhere. The trouble is that sites promoting free sims don't make any money directly. Who is going to keep them updated? An enthusiast for the public good? Who is going to host the information? A free web host? Fortunately the two have come together on Pete Foreman's site about cheap pay as you go sim cards at <a href="https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/">https://payg.pythonanywhere.com</a> which is a much more important link than it looks and lists a few other similar.</fieldset>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Incoming calls and landline numbers for mobiles - Voip or mobile for incoming calls? - <span style="color: red;">cheapest sim-only calls</span> -cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked - Cheapest SIM-only phone calls - Cheapish smartphones secondhand </span></div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
If you have free wifi for some reason, then a phone that works over wifi when possible is a good thing.<br />
<br />
If you don't have a favourite mobile phone in a drawer, unlocked to any network or ready to use a PAYG sim from that network, then ebay is pretty good at finding local or lowest price+postage offers for a offers that you can sort in a dozen ways from here:<br />
<a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Mobile-Smart-Phones-/9355/i.html">Ebay.co.uk/sch/Mobile-Smart-Phones-/9355/i.html</a><br />
<br />
There are some other sites too. <a href="http://second-handphones.com/">http://second-handphones.com</a> has a good search system for phones over £30 or close, and plenty of stock from phone recycling companies. The search system is useful. If you have a certain sim card and do not want the hassle of unlocking a mobile phone to work on it, you can buy a cheaper phone from a seller on the same network who does not want the hassle of unlocking either.<br />
<br />
Cashgenerator.co.uk and cashconverters.co.uk, the two big pawnbroker franchises, have web sites for selling pawned mobiles, starting at £10 for most of the basic ones locked to a network. They are not good value for borrowing money but better for buying phones.<br /><br />
<a href="http://www.cashgenerator.co.uk/mobile-home-phones">http://www.cashgenerator.co.uk/mobile-home-phones</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.cashconverters.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/6397">https://www.cashconverters.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/6397 </a><br />
<br />
Aliexpress phones take weeks to arrive from some seller in China, sometimes with a fraud attached so best bought with a credit card fod disputes. They include some very cheap credit card sized phones, and some smartphones under £40 with cheap glass that breaks if you hint at sitting on it. You can get second hand phones with better glass at the same price, so generally that's the better-value deal and a greener one.<br />
<a href="http://www.cashconverters.co.uk/" rel="nofollow"></a> </fieldset>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Incoming calls and landline numbers for mobiles - Voip or mobile for incoming calls? - cheapest sim-only calls -<span style="color: red;">cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked </span>- Cheapest SIM-only phone calls - Cheapish smartphones secondhand </span></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Cheapish smartphones secondhand from the same places</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
I am no great expert on this, but can only say what I know about the cheapest smartphones second hand. For example I don't know why fairly small apps like <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">Waveapps for scanning receipts as mentioned on my book-keeping post</a> don't find enough room to download to my old Samsing Galaxy smartphone that says it has plenty of space. There is probably a knack. There are a lot of things I don't know. Anyway, here is something I do know.<span style="color: red;"> </span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Blackberry smartphones</span></h4>
don't work well with other systems and cards or for misers in general. There are endless discussion threads with the answer "no" to whatever question is asked. So they are cheapest second-hand. <span style="color: red;"><br />
</span> <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Nokia smartphones</span></h4>
This is the second cheapest smartphone second hand because it uses an obscure operating system called Windows which can't download your favourite apps. If you don't want to download an app, then maybe a nokia smartphone second hand is the one for you<span style="color: red;"><br />
</span> <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">HTC Desire smartphones</span></h4>
This was some kind of cheapskate smartphone which often didn't have the technical ability to download many apps. Later versions may do - I don't know - but the brand has become what it was meant to be: the brand for a teenager's first smartphone. For that reason it is often cheap<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://veganline.com/" title="The best place to buy comfort slippers in odd widths for problem feet with cushion soles and velcro tops"><span style="color: red;">Slippers and UK-made nonleather shoes: </span></a><span style="color: red;"><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" title="slippers and UK-made nonleather shoes">Veganline.com</a></span></h4>
This heading might look a bit odd but I use this phone for a UK-made vegan shoe shop called Veganline and want to make my related pages look relevant.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Random and unknown smartphones</span></h4>
The one closest on an ebay local search might be a couple of pounds cheaper if you can collect and save postage. Oh and there are cheap ones on Aliexpress, but they break if you sit on them and are best bought with a credit card for some sort of come-back if the seller is a scammer. </fieldset>
</div>
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Incoming calls and landline numbers for mobiles - Voip or mobile for incoming calls? - cheapest sim-only calls -cheapest second hand mobile phones, preferably unlocked - Cheapest SIM-only phone calls - <span style="color: red;">Cheapish smartphones secondhand </span></span></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Free bonus afterthought</span></h3>
<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cheap-overseas-calls">moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cheap-overseas-calls</a> lists loads of other situations including <a href="http://www.18185.co.uk/">18185.co.uk</a> that offers 5p outbound calls via an 08 number, plus a low cost per minute.</fieldset>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<hr />
The author's phone is used in attempts to sell <br />
<a href="http://veganline.com/" title="ethical footwear">shoes made in UK working conditions on Veganline.com - the ultimate ethical footwear</a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-32667805342264700772015-12-30T18:25:00.034+00:002018-10-21T10:23:08.671+01:00Bad economics courses for twenty-teens<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>:
how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old
textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried
to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<i><span style="color: red;">Bad economics courses</span> - The most boring places to study economics in the UK - The most over-charged economics students in the UK - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - Student survey questions - Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics - scroll further down for post-crash economics</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
Pending classification: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0">https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0</a> - the problem of doing a course at a place that was good value 50 or 100 years ago </blockquote>
<hr />
<h1 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bad economics courses:<br />https://unistats.ac.uk/Search/SubjectList/052</span></h1>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
There is more about bad courses in general on the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html"><i>star courses</i></a> page.<br />
A page about a 1980s economics degree course is headed <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html"><i>boring economics teaching is interesting</i></a>.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
The Guardian reports polite protest by students at a Glasgow University course that is <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/04/economics-students-overhaul-subject-teaching" target="_blank">divorced from the real world</a>, as does <a href="https://youtu.be/CsvGNt4eKsc" target="_blank" title=" Teaching Economics After The Crash BBC Radio 4 Jan 2015 Peter Borenius, produced by Eve Streeter http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04svjbj ">BBC Radio 4</a>. If the material taught isn't bad enough, <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/09/university-economics-teaching-lobotomy-non-mainstream" target="_blank">the way it's taught is <i>"£9,000 lobotomy"</i></a> . What they don't say is that it is a scam. Glasgow University charges £9,000 to first year students from England and Wales to learn skills by themselves on a computer, pass web tests in these same skills and hand-in an essay that gets 100% for being handed-in on time. If they'd offered that year's course for £100 or £500, it would have been a great idea but to offer it for £9,000 is a scam even if the other two years are worth nearly 1½ times as much for the same price. Some students drop out after year one, and deserve a fair price.<br />
<br />
For some reason, journalists choose plumbers as examples of scam-merchants rather than universities or trades unions or social work agencies or chancellors of the exchequer. Secondary schools are so wierd that they get the odd mention, but not much. It is much easier to prove bad service from a plumber and much harder to prove bad service from an economics department charging £9,000, so they are not quoted on <i>Rogue Traders</i> where they belong in all their variety - the duff bluffer who was a nice enough man but refused to do his job on my course at Keele in the 1980s; the nasty maniac who has now ceased to teach at Swansea in the 20-teens, or the manager who says it's fine to offer DIY computer teaching in Glasgow for year one, which it is but not at £9,000 plus an expectation that people will move to Glasgow, enroll as students, keep their diaries clear of other distractions, and not throw anything.<br />
<br />
Cynics would say that college teachers are more like the journalists than are plumbers, and are reported more kindly for that reason; you can mention a lovable rogue on Rogue Traders if they are plumbing, but there is some taboo about mentioning it if they are <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">professor of economics at Keele University</a> and waste years of a students' life, rather than a few agonised phone calls about a plumbing job and some over-the-top bills on a credit card. <a href="http://employees.org.uk/">It's the same with Rogue Trader trades unions, but that's another subject</a>. Almost. You join a college or a union rather than subscribe. You have to develop enough trust with the college teacher to be told that you are wrong and why, even if you still think the teacher is wrong. Trip Adviser reviews get in the way of this, and too much feedback by students about teachers could be what causes safe dull feedback from teachers to students as reported on those same unistats results at nearly all colleges.<br />
<br />
Glasgow University Economics Department is a good clear example of a rogue trader, but down the tracks in Manchester, students are nowadays encouraged to form a student society. The society came-up with a precocious report on how badly the subject of economics is taught at Manchester, with examples of things taught which are not true, a course which doesn't develop critical thinking to make a living or get a job, and a trend away from the heterodox that gets worse each year rather than better. One of their themes, copied below, is that most of these things are known by economics teachers but the problem is somehow not solved by whoever writes the syllabus for next years' course or hires the next generation of teachers. Examples are from Manchester but the pattern applies to all college economics courses. I started a long blog post about my own 1980s course at Keele, just typing stuff that leads where it goes, and discovered that the course had been one of the best just a few years before I went on it and even in parts as I was still on it. Someone at Keele decided to run regimented textbook classes and spend the money on central services instead, and that is a general trend.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/" title="hightest ranking unis for economics, sorted better than on the league tables from the Times or other newspapers">Government and Unistats</a> have done better at helping students find the least bad course. A newspaper that doesn't publish league tables <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/the-universities-which-are-easier-to-get-into-and-have-higher-levels-of-student-satisfaction-10263148.html">explains why</a>. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/nov/18/academics-back-student-protests-neoclassical-economics-teaching">The Treasury</a> has also hosted a conference of economists trying to write a better syllabus and set-up a course. Unistats lists student feedback by course, rather than pretending to write a league table by course and fudging the data back again. Kingston may have an Orwellian management and a terrible way of teaching maths or business, but their Economics department looks really good. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html" title="boring degrees wth no job prospects: the worse degree courses in the UK"><br />
<br />
Star Courses</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html" title="Economics degree league table">is another post about the worst-scoring courses reported on unistats in 2015, the most bored or least satisfied students, and the lowest paid graduates in the UK</a>, which used to be written here. The theme is that the main league tables conceal good courses at little-known colleges and bad courses, like the one I did from the famous <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="Hot topics like the credit crunch and the economics of the Iraq War will be coming under the microscope at a conference being held at Keele University next week. Distinguished economists from the UK and the U.S. will be speaking at the event on Wednesday at Keele's management centre. It has been organised in memory of Leslie Fishman, who was an economics professor at the university between 1969 and 1987. The conference will be followed by a reception, where a new Leslie and Eleanor Fishman bursary will be launched. It will be awarded annually to the best first year student from the Potteries.">Professor Les Fishman</a>, at better known colleges. I don't know what is taught at the Oxford PPE course that some politicians have been on, but I know that history repeats economic disasters, from joining the gold standard in the 1930s to hiking-up the exchange rate in the 1980s in a similar way; from subsidising Concorde to promoting Chinese factories in the UK at UK taxpayers' expense. I think that economists have not informed the rest of us - journalists, voters, MPs, and technocrats.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<i><span style="color: red;">Bad economics courses</span> - The most boring places to study economics in the UK - The most over-charged economics students in the UK - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - Student survey questions - Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics - scroll further down for post-crash economics</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The most boring places to study economics in the UK : league tables are wrong</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Keele is my old college, not the most boring UK economics degree</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="http://bit.ly/nottingham-economics-chinese" title="Nottingham University - 2016 entry UCAS code:L1T1 Qualification:BA Hons Type and duration:3 year UG Qualification name:Economics with Chinese Studies"><b>Nottingham's Economics with Chinese studies</b></a> students were <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007154FT-L1T1/ReturnTo/Search">36%</a> interested, clarified or advised, much worse than other Nottingham economics students. That could be something to do with the world view of people who take the course, and not the course itself.</li>
<li><a href="https://le.ac.uk/courses/economics-ba?uol_r=121c8ad4"><b>Leicester</b></a> has 20 full time BSc Economics students who were 42% interested, and 28% clarified but the college scores better for other economics courses. The course does better than an electrical engineering degree nearby that scores only 21%.</li>
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007794FT-L150-2308"><b>Glasgow</b> scores 46</a>% for an MA; there's no sign of a degree course.course <a href="https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/09/university-economics-teaching-lobotomy-non-mainstream">reported in The Guardian for being bad</a>, ns.<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007137FT-UGBABUSAECN/ReturnTo/Search"><br />
</a></li>
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007783FT-L100/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Aberdeen</b></a>'s small MA course scores much worse than other Aberdeen courses,</li>
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007814FT-UFBCECNA/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Cardiff</b>'s single subject BSC course</a> scores much worse then other Cardiff courses. That's odd because the applied economics part of the department hires Professor Patrick Minford who hasn't heard of an over-valued pound of the unfair market in goods caused by one side not having a welfare state. He also seems to think that foreigners will never learn to compete in providing services:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Over time, if we left the EU, it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, leaving mainly industries such as design, marketing and hi-tech. But this shouldn’t scare us.</i><br />
Britain is good at putting on a suit and selling to other nations. <br />
Around half of young adults now go to university, ending up in professions such as finance or law, while the making of things such as car parts or carpentry has hugely shrunk — but there will always be jobs for people without sophisticated skills." <br />
- Patrick Minford in The Sun. Italics his. If you pay to go to Cardiff University you might hear more from him</blockquote>
</li>
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007796FT-BSECSEC/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Leicester</b>'s financial economics students</a> award 50% for making the subject interesting, 16% for getting detailed feedback which only 28% clarified.</li>
<li><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007767FT-UECOFY/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Keele scores 51</b>%</a> for its full-time or shared joint-honours economics courses.</li>
<li>Glasgow surveys seem to produce the same scores or none for the college's economics degree teaching. I don't know why. Keele's <i>"data displayed is for all students of economics"</i>, because of low numbers.</li>
</ul>
<b>Notes and queries on the low scores</b><br />
You have to guess why <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/find-out-more/key-information-set#noKIS" target="_blank">some colleges don't submit enough numbers per course</a>, including the chance that students boycotted the survey or that staff found ways of sub-classifying and re-naming courses to include small numbers of students per classification, just to make the returns less likely to be published. You also have to guess how the unistats web site chooses to put these ungraded colleges in order that isn't always alphabetical and why the usual suspect colleges are often at the bottom. If these student numbers were added together, they could quite likely be more boring than Keele. The data reads like football scores: London Metropolitan has three <i>"no data available"</i> courses, University of Hertfordshire 10, Kent 4, Kingston 5, Richmond 3, Greenwich 5, East London 2, Glasgow 19, IFS 1, GSM 2, Cardiff Met 3. Oddly enough, if you search online for <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=worst+economics+course"><i>worst economics course</i></a>, an ad comes-up saying <i>"<a href="https//www.whatuni.com/university-course-reviews/gsm-london/8578/">degrees in economics at GSM London</a>"</i>. The link is to what people have said about Greenwhich School of Management's coaching for this Portsmouth degree exam. Also, you have to guess why the Unistats site can only sort by <i>"staff made the subject interesting"</i> and not <i>"the course is intellectually stimulating"</i>.<br />
<br />
Other colleges would score higher than Keele and Glasgow, I think, if their scores were reported in the same uniform way. Leicester has 500 new economics students a year of with 300 on courses that score 68% while their highest is 92%. Scores for <a href="https://www2.le.ac.uk/research/challenges/society/economic" target="_blank">economics teaching look as good as their web page</a> and are good when the score is given separately from a shared joint-honours subject. Cardiff economics courses usually score 57% where a course combination has enough data to publish. Scores of <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007137FT-UGBABUSAECN/ReturnTo/Search" title=" The content of my degree, whilst challenging, is really good fun. - Sarah Feeney, student">47% at Chester for Business Studies and Economics</a> fit the pattern of their other business studies courses; economics doesn't look like the issue.<br />
<br />
Apart from pure boredom, the wider sense of injustice called overall (dis)-satisfaction with the course is measured for sorting too. <b>Leicester</b>, <b>St Andrews</b>, <b>Cardiff</b>, <b>Glasgow</b> and <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007850FT-UUUD1-L101%7EUHES-AKB03/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Bath</b></a> have courses with economics less satisfactory than than Keele's 71% score. Bath's web page for their bad course says <i>"number one for student satisfaction - National Student Survey"</i>, so maybe their list is upside down and folded-over at the end. Bath's Economics BSc course only has ten colleges worse-rated than their 58%. Bath's Economics BA course scores a shade more at 63% which is a common pattern. What's the difference? Can careful research show what makes an economics course even worse than another one, when everything else is equal? Where would an economist find this information? <br />
<br />
Leicester Uni, with 32% satisfied BSc graduates, has the answer on its web page. Staff are surely aware of the problem.<br />
<h4>
<i><span style="font-weight: normal;">For the BSc Economics course: (<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007796FT-BSECSEC/ReturnTo/Search">32% satisfied</a>)</span></i></h4>
<ul>
<li><i>You will need to have achieved an A-level in Maths - at least grade B.</i></li>
<li><i>You will gain experience in the use of advanced mathematical and statistical techniques in economic analysis and its applications. </i></li>
</ul>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>For the BA Economics course: (<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007796FT-BAECSEC/ReturnTo/Search">67% satisfied</a>)</i></div>
<ul>
<li><i>You will need to have achieved a GCSE in Maths - at least a grade B.</i></li>
<li><i>You will focus on the development of your skills as an economist through their application to a wide range of real world issues.</i></li>
</ul>
Mario Pezzino of Manchester University mentions the problem in a quote below - the one with a green heading. She says that staff are unsure how to avoid the bad feedback that's attracted by technical parts of the course without dumbing-down, and suggests using guest speakers as part of the answer. She doesn't say why the hard sciences don't disappoint as much as economics. Whether it's possible to use the same maths teachers who teach for engineering to teach for economics, and find out how their reception differs. Maybe engineering students expect more hard maths, or maybe engineering teachers relate the maths closer to real life examples to avoid it becoming self-referential. The idea of using guest speakers suggests that real examples can allow a technical subject to be taught without bad feedback.<br />
<br />
Another strange experiment happens at Kingston University. A group of teachers teach in one style in a course called economics, and get high feedback stores by Kingston standards. Another group teach something like Maths for Business and get some of the lowest feedback scores in the UK. For detail see <i>"the most bored students in the UK can sit next to the most interested students</i>" here:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html</a><br />
<br />
<br />
Keele didn't teach me how to use a spreadsheet when I was there and I'm still a bit tentative, and will leave the averaging of numbers at a guess, rather than quantifying it. All of us mammals can sniff-out interesting data; maths just gives us more leads, more control over our mistakes, and possibly more help explaining facts to others. For those who can use Libre / Open Office Calc or <a href="http://www.sofastatistics.com/home.php">Sofastats</a> or such, there is more data on <a href="http://www.hefce.ac.uk/data/">http://www.hefce.ac.uk/data/</a> which downloads as excel format but can be opened and saved in other formats by Calc. Where the unistats web site can search by a few criteria, like <i>"staff made the subject interesting"</i>, a spreadsheet guru could search by more like <i>"subject is intellectually stimulating"</i> - in other words worth studying at all. A guru could also see more detail of the wonky data which isn't clear enough to publish on the unistats web site except as "not enough data".<br />
<br />
In defence of Keele economics teachers, they teach in less than half a students' time while other colleges teach a subject half-time or full-time. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">The ones I had, decades ago, concentrated on face-to-face time rather than anything else; they offered many more hours of this that than other departments, sometimes from the end of a room because that's what their boss told them to do</a>. Keele teachers are under pressure to take students who have not studied a subject before, as part of the commitment to running short courses, a foundation year, and letting students experiment. That makes it harder to avoid repetition for the others. And Keele teachers can't choose the most precocious, on-track students as can teachers who teach PPE at Oxford or even University College London; it's more like the Open University on a campus. Most of us are subject-mixers and some exam-flunkers from the foundation year. We're more interesting to teach because we don't open essays with a quote from John Stewart Mill and end with immaculate formatting of footnotes including one with a Latin title, as the Post Crash Economics Society do in their report, but our short-course studies are less good at allowing staff research and detailed interesting teaching so the jobs are terrible for a career. So this may be the second most boring place for studying economics but it has other excitements for students like getting-in in the first place and discovering other subjects; it might even have other excitements for staff. These don't show in the standard feedback scores.<br />
<br />
The surprise is that other economics courses like Glasgow or the more technical BSc Economics course at Leicester are worse-rated.<br />
<br />
Another surprise is that a college should attempt a difficult thing without knowing how it should be done; I'd expect Keele to come-up a lot in web searches about how economics can be taught. Open University does a lot from telly and has given-up most pure economics courses; University College London and Oxford Uni are keen on a new <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/q-step">Nuffield Foundation</a> courses called Q-step which attempt to measure real things while teaching statistics. I noticed nothing on the Keele web site to say how they cope with the constraints of their job.<br />
<br />
This is pretty typical of organisations with input-funding, rather than funding for users to buy a service; the organisation tells a funder that it has a wonderful skill like running a housing association for violent ex offenders, gets the grant, recruits some staff out of The Guardian or temping agencies, and says <i>"do it"</i>. Or <i>"Oh, did we forget to warn you?"</i>. There was a real example of a housing association for violent ex offenders which recruited staff by down-playing the difficulties of the job to those who applied. Luckily I didn't apply, but it's a pity to avoid an interesting problem that could attract interested staff, and play games instead. There are lots of people who work in tricky hostels who want to give-up shift work. There are ex-boxers and wrestlers who want another career like housing with a touch of social work for tenants who are interested and a lot of coping strategies for tenants who are just tenants. There are architectural things that can be done like fitting strong doors. I hope Keele Uni does better than a wonky housing association and works with staff who teach a condensed course.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/-%20Star%20courses:%20the%20least%20satisfied,%20most%20bored%20&%20lowest-paid%20UK%20graduates">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates has moved to another page.</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<i>Bad economics courses - <span style="color: red;">The most boring places to study economics in the UK</span> - The most over-charged economics students in the UK - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - Student survey questions - Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics - scroll further down for post-crash economics</i></fieldset>
</div>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The most over-charged economics students in the UK</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
People who will do high-paid jobs often study economics along the way, maybe as a degree before some other qualification, and maybe before some finance-related job in London. That's from<br />
<a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/publications/long-destinations-2012-13">Longitudinal Destination of Leavers of Higher Education</a> , according to the link which is a summery by a statistician at Tej Mehanwi at the Higher Education Statistics Agency. Average economics graduate earnings at the age of 40 according to another source (not to hand) so probably from a career in employment.<br />
<br />
One thing is not proven. It is not proven that the study of economics makes these students more useful, happy, or highly-paid. It is something that some people do along the way to being highly-paid. If there is some clear link, you will have to find it in the course prospectuses themselves and the list of things that are taught for the money.<br />
<br />
I started this page by suggesting a cost to everyone of bad government economic policies, particularly in the early 80s. I implied that bad economics teaching was part of the problem and the cost to everyone.<br />
<br />
There is also the cost to every student of studying - a few years of life and a maintenance grant at the time that paid about the same as the dole - something like £3,000 a year and even some right to housing benefit that was cut while I was on the course. It was a system like the one a lot of European countries still have.<br />
<br />
Thc cost of running an institution like a college was mainly paid in block grants in the 80s, with about a £3,000 annual fee per student paid by their local councils. There was a block grant paid per student by central government, but it had been reduced on a whim as a 1980s funding cut which wiped-out a third of the funding per student at Keele and a thirtieth at Oxford, starting from similar amounts. The government obviously thought that Ed Balls and Boris Johnson would do more with their education than I would, which I don't think turned-out to be true.<br />
<br />
The system now has next to no block grants, no maintenance grant for students to live on, and a much publicised student loan scheme for paying up to £9,000 a year per student and charging it back to the same ex-student if they ever earn more than an average wage, which barely enough ever do to make the scheme work.<br />
<br />
A Department for Education study found that most business, economics or arts subjects cost something just over £6,000 a year per student to run and manage with central services, and are charged at £9,000 with the rest cross-subsidising expensive courses like dentistry, for which there isn't a proper funding system. So most students pay too much for their road-to-nowhere course that makes the college money, and then have trouble finding an NHS Dentist. The study must have included registry and management, library, student union and buildings costs in the £6,000 figure because <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150224005942/http://epigram.org.uk/news/2014/11/its-official-arts-students-pay-for-science-degrees">the money that reaches teaching departments is even lower</a>, at £<span class="cwcot" id="cwos">3,347.20 per student per year on a Bristol English Literature course. If the same students joined a free book club, and then hired staff to do extra teaching for a new distance-learning degree, they could save some money.</span><br />
<b>Self-study might provide a better course than study at a college.<br />
A cut-down course based on a text book that's wrong can be worse than useless.</b><br />
Much of the study can be done for free if you have outgrown the urge to be a student and study with other students and teachers. I remember that the practise of passing-on sets of notes to avoid the need to go to lectures was frowned-on, specially in Biology, but now teachers do it too on <a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/" target="_blank" title="economics teaching reseurces after the crash">Economicsnetwork.ac.uk</a> All you need to plough-through the books is a habit of reading one chapter a night or one chapter a morning, and of taking notes.<br />
<br />
Economics network suggest far more reading of books, other than the textbooks, than I ever did for Keele Economics, where they were only used on the one specialised part of our degree. Students at Manchester complain that they're never given <a href="http://cas2.umkc.edu/economics/people/facultypages/kregel/courses/econ645/winter2011/generaltheory.pdf">Keynes to read in the original text to see what it looks like and talk about it</a>.<br />
<br />
At Keele we had one or two big text books with crosses on them. Other than that we just lounged in our dungarees and chewed straw; nature gives a young person plenty of entertainment without book-learning, and we had the big good book with the crosses on it if we needed to know anything.<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<u><br />
Economics</u> by David Begg and Guianluigi Vernasca:<br />
free pdf download instructor manuals to help supplement your course</div>
<ul>
<li>ISBN-10: 0077154517</li>
<li>ISBN-13: 978-0077154516</li>
</ul>
The same was true in other cut-down Keele courses because there were so many of them that to base a course on one book was a good thing. It's like having a predictable course, with known needs for detailed study for essays and exams - it helps everyone. A chunk of my English Literature degree course, based on a collection of original writing called <i>"Romantic poetry and prose"</i>, and that was fine. We missed-out on having to read books about books, which was a good thing because we had the original text in our hands. Oh by the way they taught us that Augustans - the people who weren't romantics - believed in the letterbox idea of how students learn. They learn because knowledge is posted-in. I can't find a link by googling "Augustan letterbox", but it's there somewhere.<br />
<br />
A big part of my Economics degree, based on Begg's "Economics", full of second-hand conventional wisdom about original sources which students were not able to check and look implausible. <i>"<a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2013/06/economics-textbooks/">The trouble with the textbooks in economics is that they contain things we economists know to be wrong</a>." - Diane Coyle, professor of economics, University of Manchester.</i> She recommends antidotes including a free pdf -<br />
<a href="http://digamo.free.fr/keen2011.pdf">Debunking Economics - Revised and Expanded Edition</a>, by Steve Keen. So a cut-down one-book course is worse than useless, although I see that Oxford PPE students study from a similar text book to the one I used, now re-written by Begg and Vernasca. Re-reading it, I realise that it was not bad, but trying to do an impossible thing for awkward buyers at american teaching departments who didn't want anything awkward mentioned like national insurance or evolution.<br />
<br />
<b>Free online economics courses</b><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDkYu4j8YL42Gm_SJ8B7fv8VPe1EoZL-PGpM-7Qt2AV-dauOKrN3mcx1hI44kxbmGJYLAkzn3LpRVJD-qRNECcc5jkDeZDRkUAyw5NsUfeNed-X6CZh0A5lKt2VMRzIi7ymPtT0su6h55U/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="160" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDkYu4j8YL42Gm_SJ8B7fv8VPe1EoZL-PGpM-7Qt2AV-dauOKrN3mcx1hI44kxbmGJYLAkzn3LpRVJD-qRNECcc5jkDeZDRkUAyw5NsUfeNed-X6CZh0A5lKt2VMRzIi7ymPtT0su6h55U/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a>The usual examples of free online education (without feedback or a chance to meet other students) are places like Stamford, in a country with a weird concept called "welfare" instead of national insurance and a bigger home market compared to their international trade, so I doubt these courses are good for people in smaller slightly saner countries like the UK. There's also a weird hierarchy of academia in the USA that encourages nutters. There was one professor of psychology who was asked a question at a conference and replied <i>"when you've become a professor, you can make points like that"</i>. (I think the quote is in the preface to one of the Karl Rodgers counselling books but am not sure).<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDkYu4j8YL42Gm_SJ8B7fv8VPe1EoZL-PGpM-7Qt2AV-dauOKrN3mcx1hI44kxbmGJYLAkzn3LpRVJD-qRNECcc5jkDeZDRkUAyw5NsUfeNed-X6CZh0A5lKt2VMRzIi7ymPtT0su6h55U/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br />
</a></div>
<br />
<a href="https://www.core-econ.org/">Core-econ.org</a> is <i>"<a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2015/08/13/good-universities-and-bad-economics/2/">much vaunted</a>, but pays lip-service only to alternative approaches to economics, and has been criticised by students from leading Universities as still too narrow"</i>, according to a link in <a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2015/08/13/good-universities-and-bad-economics/2/">this article</a> by Mr Keen, who wrote the free pdf book above.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.saylor.org/">Saylor.org</a> pride themselves in providing open source &100% free course materials for a few simple tests you can pay for without great qualification to be earned. For example they link to a free online stats textbook for their regression course. There is some kind of qualification on registries of credits used by some US colleges for short external courses.<br />
<br />
<b>£36.00</b> buys an online course in statistics, taught with clarity but I guess no real examples of data at the <a href="https://www.class-central.com/course/coursera-basic-statistics-4312">University of Amsterdam</a>, so it would make sense for colleges with face-to-face courses to concentrate on the interesting bits and use a robotic system to do the robotic bits, rather than hiring someone to stand in front of a lecture theatre and write shorthand for algebra on the wall.<br />
<br />
<b>£36.99</b> buys a free pdf or e-book download of Economics by Begg and Vernascsa available to teachers as part of a bundle with lecture notes of conventional wisdom. Rival textbook Lipsey and Chrystal <a href="https://global.oup.com/uk/orc/busecon/economics/lipsey12e/01student/questions/">puts some self-tests online for free</a>. Teachers lecture notes were available to go with Begg when I was at college, to judge from the teacher interrupting his own lecture to say <i>"we have to teach this stuff to call this an economics course"</i>. Now, the publisher offers much more that you could learn without the need for a teacher. Looking at the Kindle preview on Amazon, you can see a description.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"simple assignment management, allowing you to get on with more teaching", "auto graded assignments, quizzes and tests", "detailed visual reporting, where students and section results can be viewed and analysed", "sophisticated online testing capability", "a filtering and reporting function that allows you to easily assign and report on materials that are correlated to learning outcome, topics, level of difficulty, and more. Reports can be accessed for individual students or the whole class, as well as offering the ability to drill into individual assignments, questions, or categories". "instructor manuals to help supplement your course". "Assign all the end-of-chapter or test bank material as a ready-made assignment with a simple click of a button", "test students' mathematical understanding with auto-graded calculation questions", "assign multi-part questions that cover key topics in economics, and then branch to different questions, activities, and analysis". The version for people without a teacher is called Connect Self Study and costs £10 or £36.99 with a free e-book they call Begg: Economics, 11e for short.</blockquote>
<b><a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aac.uk+%2Bbegg+AND+vernasca" title="www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aac.uk+%2Bbegg+AND+vernasca">acknowledgement and customer list</a></b><br />
A teacher at Keele University (51% interesting) is on the list of people thanked for useful suggestions, as from Bradford (79%), Cork, Umea, Bath (56%), Birmingham (82-84%), Jyvaskylar, Kent (86% interesting), Liverpool Uni (66-67%), Manchester (58-67%), Manchester Metro (86%), Norwegian Science & Tec, Oxford Brookes, Sheffield (63%), Surrey (79%), and West Scotland. Oxford Brookes and West of Scotland don't teach economics as an identifiable subject. Glasgow university - 42% interesting - do not use the Begg and Vernasca textbook. I haven't found out which one they use.<b> </b>When I first wrote that I thought that the Begg textbook might be the problem, but no I am part-way through re-reading it I see that it's a huge nicely-written book. The problems are that US prejudices are not challenged, and that the book is used without real examples from lecturers to match the reams of X-shaped diagrams from patient authors.<br />
Discounts and scholarships are hard to judge<br />
<br />
The Leslie and Eleanor Fishman Bursary is used to donate something like £500 or £1,000 to the best performing local student after their first year of Keele Economics teaching. In a college that over-charges by so many thousands of pounds, this doesn't go far. I expect it cost the estate of Leslie and Eleanor Fishman, and their daughter Nina Fishman, about ten or twenty times the award, so £5,000 to £20,000 which is very nice of them and a monument to how people can maintain to the world that they are doing a good job and be believed when they won't even hold a tutorial. The donation would be a few months' salary to a professor and department manager.<br />
<br />
There are other colleges like Derby and Staffordshire that sometimes charge a bit less than the full £9,000, but they're also the ones that take some distance-learning students who write "other" on their unistats returns for work after graduation, so it's harder to know if these courses are any good.</fieldset>
<br />
<fieldset>
<i>Bad economics courses - The most boring places to study economics in the UK - <span style="color: red;">The most over-charged economics students in the UK</span> - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - Student survey questions - Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics - scroll further down for post-crash economics</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihElpxj5ht4L3YcLXp6Q0YK6jwADelav9pmkIuHmoo5ClOxDaOF_bk537dFZNoJ65vp8nLY7yvvOHHDU29ylkidPY4mO1BfkxlbZg4nMF8AjhS8abST6fCv00aEf-IKdmWUlPyQF6e0zKc/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br />
</a></b></blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Pattern-spotting - Keele & Glasgow University bad economics</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Comparing economics with all courses at Keele</b></h3>
Searching all courses at a college, <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007767FT-UECOFY/ReturnTo/Search"><b>Keele Economics</b></a> students are the least satisfied at Keele, just behind Music Technology, and the most bored at Keele, behind students of business studies, finance, or social workers who can at least get you a job when they leave. I haven't checked whether Glasgow surveys have the same pattern and guess they do.<br />
<br />
These were searches in 2016, but the best up to date guide apart from Unistats istelf is CUG which might sometimes be easier to use for the first few searches. It can filter-out results for a particular department at a college and a few types of feedback for that department. <a href="https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Student+Satisfaction&s=Economics">https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Student+Satisfaction&s=Economics</a> for example is a league table of economics departments by combined score for student satisfaction. It is still a rougher guide than Unistats. Kingston Uni has two groups of economics-like courses for example, with terrible scores for the mathmatical ones for actuaries and good ones for the more political macro-economic ones. On this table, checked in 2017, Keele is second bottom above a puzzling entry for Gloucester where there doesn't seem to be an economics degree, and of course the Kingston maths-for-actuaries course ought to be below Keele too.<br />
<br />
I can see a problem of managing expectation in students with expectations.<br />
<br />
When I did an <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007767FT-UECOAENG/ReturnTo/Search">english literature half-degree</a> I did it for fun without previous A-level or serious expectation. That was a good thing about Keele: you could switch after the foundation year. If I studied business studies, finance, or social work I would have some vague expectations which are hard for a department to manage in prospective students. I guess that economics students are particularly grumpy because their expectations differ between each other. Personally, I would rather learn micro-economics on the job and keep it as an optional extra on the course. Other people think the same of macro-economics. Meanwhile, it is still hard to tell from web pages what a subject like "quantitative methods" really means, and any college could get higher survey results just by explaining to future students what to expect.<br />
<br />
The defence from economics staff while I was a student is that it's a technical subject with a minimum syllabus, squashed into less than half students' time because Keele runs a lot of short courses for the degree as well as two main ones. <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree, with less than half your time"</i>, is the best I can remember the quote from the head of department in one of his lectures. So two and bit years were taken with the syllabus that's a first year introduction on a full time degree.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
comparison with photography courses</h4>
Expanding: if a photography class had to fit-in a minimum syllabus for photography, leaving no time to take photographs, that would be boring but it would not be the teachers' fault; the teacher might score well for being good at explaining things but the boss score badly for making the subject interesting in the way it's taught. If the boss can think of no better way to do it next year, they might blame the college for offering the impossible course and the students for choosing it.<br />
<br />
About the time I was at college it became a lot easier to teach stats with real data, just as digital photography makes it easier to teach photography while taking a lot of bad photos. So, thirty years on, I would expect the argument to have changed. I still read of multiple-choice tests at Glasgow where students expect something else, so I assume the same happens at Keele.<br />
<br />
What follows applies to similar problems at economics departments in other colleges, either singled-out from unistats or singled-out by the post crash economics society.<br />
<br />
I don't quite buy the defence - it doesn't say what the minimum syllabus is for; what it qualifies you for. If you have to follow the Quality Assurance Agency's benchmark standards anyway, why is teaching from workbook examples any quicker than teaching from real examples? I see the Post Crash Economics Society answering the same point in their report. If it's still cut-and-pasted to this page you'll find with control+F under <i>"There is a toolkit that you need to learn"</i>.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
notes for prospective students and teachers doing peer-review of a course</h4>
For anyone who wants a cheat-sheet, stating what this toolkit is, the Quality Assurance <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/q-step">nuffcsnetwoieldfoundation.org/q-step</a> and other initiatives get started and say what software and lectures and exercises and data seem to work. So it's a bit of a summery for summary's sake when the real answer lies in how to teach stats software, data examples, and useful theoretical summaries all in a flash at the same time, but it's useful to people who do peer reviews of work outside their own college. This is what it says. Linking and bolding are mine. This is an introduction; "benchmarks" are put at the end of this post. Formatting is mine.)<br />
<blockquote>
<i>4.1</i><br />
<i>Graduates of a single honours degree in economics usually learn about the following.<br />
<br />
<b>Economic concepts, principles and tools</b>, the understanding of which might be verbal, graphical or mathematical. These concepts, tools and principles play a key role in reasoning. They address the micro-economic issues of decision and choice, the production and exchange of goods, the pricing and use of inputs, the inter-dependency of markets, the relationships between principals and agents, and economic welfare. They also include the macro-economic issues of employment, national income, the balance of payments, the distribution of income, economic growth, financial and business cycles, and the role of money and finance in the economy.<br />
<br />
<b>Economic policy at both the micro-economic and macro-economic levels.</b> In all these, students show an understanding of analytical methods and model-based argument and should appreciate the existence of different methodological approaches.</i><br />
<br />
<i><b>Relevant quantitative methods and computing techniques.</b> These include appropriate mathematical and statistical methods, including econometrics. Students have exposure to the use of such techniques on <b>actual economic, financial or social data</b>, using suitable <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_statistical_packages">statistical or econometric software</a>.</i><br />
<br />
<b><i>The nature, sources and uses of both quantitative and qualitative economic data</i></b> <i>and <b>an ability to select and apply appropriate methods that economists might use to analyse such data</b>.</i><br />
<br />
<i><b>The applications of economics</b>. Students discover how to apply relevant economic principles and reasoning to a variety of applied topics. They are also aware of how economics can be applied to design, guide and interpret commercial, economic, social and environmental policy. As part of this, they have the ability to discuss and analyse government policy and to assess the performance of the UK and other economies, past and present.</i><br />
<br />
<i>4.2</i><br />
<i>It is recognised that, in both single honours degrees and in many degrees that involve a substantial amount of economics, content is adapted to suit the nature and objectives of the degree programme. In degrees that are not single honours economics, not all the elements in paragraph 4.1 may be covered. It is also recognised that the</i><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><i>forms of analysis chosen may differ and may be <b>tailored</b> to best serve the</i></li>
<li><i>skills that students bring with them into their degree programme.</i></li>
</ul>
<i>It is neither the function nor the objective of this Subject Benchmark Statement to prescribe what these forms of analysis might be; this is a matter for institutional choice and decision.</i></blockquote>
So: subject-mixers and exam-flunkers on one of the UK's shortest economics degree courses can't expect everything. "Taylored" is a cliche, used to conceal the need to say "blinkered"; if a group of students has failed one exam and you want them to pass the next one, you have to make all parts of the process clear and avoid distraction. Also concealed is the chance to use their skills from other mixed subjects. It ought to be a good idea - Open University use real life examples from TV documentaries to try to draw in students' everyday experience - but I don't remember it happening in practise at college. Maybe students ought to be allowed to compare and contrast different economics text books. A lot of us would have been good at that.<br />
<br />
I do accept another idea which isn't stated - or - really, I ramble a bit in this paragraph but it is worth keeping. When Economics departments look bad to their college bosses, they get merged with another similar failing subject that gets more applicants, called something like <i>"learn how to do business or manage while doing neither, taught by people who do neither"</i>. The subject and subjects like it effect a lot of us for a lot of our working lives as employees or whatever-else, but it's hard to know what course you want when aged about 18. That could be why graduates from these courses, on average, have a low employment rate second worst after subjects like fine art. So the merger is not a merger of one tricky course with another much clearer one; it is a merger of two bunches of staff with a tricky teaching problem, presumably done in order to reduce the number of high-paid staff. That could be good if it reduces the number of over-promoted people who have never worked in an office but end-up being the one who chooses how to organise the office - a common problem in social service jobs. That same process could be bad if it allows people to think that they have a separate management job; that such a job exists, separate from being a teacher and justified by lots of earnest committee meetings and being a member of a team of other such. <br />
<br />
Keele and Glasgow economics courses score worst for boredom, even while teaching economics after the crash, so I wondered if they had anything else in common. These are some of the student survey scores for Keele Economics with the Glasgow University full time economics scores in brackets, taken from <a href="https://www.thestudentsurvey.com/content/NSS2015_Questionnaire.pdf">forms like this one</a> with questions I have copied-out the questions that Ipsos Mori ask at the bottom of this post.<br />
<br />
Diverse expectations are a problem for teachers. I think that's self-evident.<br />
Strong expectations are a problem to teachers, because the course is never as expected.<br />
Strong diverse expectations are a headache, and I suggest that people who sign-up for economics courses have strong diverse expectations. My hunch is that the microeconomics of marginal cost are obvious to anyone who is economically-minded. When developed without a clear example by academics, the more complex theories are probably wrong, and that's what the Post Crash Economics Society report says. Since I was at college something called Game Theory has been added to the syllabus. I think the same, and they say the same: it's probably wrong. Microeconomics seems, to me, to be something to learn from examples or on the job. Macroeconomics seems like something to study for life experience and unlikely ever to be part of a job. Although Alan Johnson MP did say his first job was to "<a href="https://www.ft.com/content/5bf1b78d-bb7a-34e5-950d-897e2ff194b0">read an economics primer</a>" when appointed shadow chancellor, and then resigned from front bench politics, and Bank of England staff are keen to promote better economics teaching just in case any one of us does happen to answer a job at by mistake and then find that it's for governor of the Bank of England.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<i><span style="color: purple;">Your problem is with macroeconomics; most of us aren’t even macro-economists</span></i></h3>
<i>As our name implies, we believe the 2008 financial crisis represents a major failure of macroeconomics. However, this doesn’t mean our criticisms are limited to macroeconomics.<br />
<br />
For one, it can be argued that many of macroeconomics’ problems stem from its ‘microfoundations’, which rely on problematic micro-economic concepts such as utility, capital, market clearing and so forth (Keen, 2011).<br />
<br />
Second, there is the problem that microeconomics and macroeconomics are intrinsically linked, and not just in the direction of the former to the latter: for example, since people demonstrate higher risk aversion in recessions than in booms, can we talk about their utility functions without discussing the macroeconomic environment in which they are operating?<br />
<br />
Third, regardless of the crash, there has been vigorous debate about microeconomics as well as macroeconomics for some time and it is important that students understand the areas of contest and have the tools to be able to evaluate competing micro-economic theories.</i></blockquote>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
STUDENT SURVEYS AT<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10007767FT-UECOFY/ReturnTo/Search" target="_blank">KEELE ECONOMICS COURSES</a> (OR <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007794FT-L150-2308" target="_blank">UNIVERSITY OF GLASGOW</a>)<br />
77% Staff are good at explaining things (or doing their job) (82% at Glasgow)<br />
<span style="color: red;">51%</span> Staff have made the subject interesting (<span style="color: red;">46</span>% Glasgow)<br />
54% Staff are enthusiastic about what they are teaching (57 Glasgow)<br />
61% The course is intellectually stimulating (64 Glasgow)<br />
<br />
ASSESSMENT AND FEEDBACK<br />
67% The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance (46)<br />
72% Assessment arrangements and marking have been fair (68)<br />
48% Feedback on my work has been prompt (50)<br />
45% I have received detailed comments on my work (<span style="color: red;">37</span>)<br />
36% Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand (<span style="color: red;">32</span>)<br />
<br />
ACADEMIC SUPPORT<br />
65% I have received sufficient advice and support with my studies (61)<br />
67% I have been able to contact staff when I needed to (89)<br />
58% Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices (64)<br />
<br />
ORGANISATION AND MANAGEMENT<br />
62% The timetable works efficiently as far as my activities are concerned (86)<br />
54% Any changes in the course or teaching have been communicated effectively (86)<br />
58% The course is well organised and is running smoothly (61)<br />
<br />
LEARNING RESOURCES<br />
78% The library resources and services are good enough for my needs (96)<br />
91% I have been able to access general IT resources when I needed to (89)<br />
80% I have been able to access specialised equipment, facilities, or rooms when I needed to (96)<br />
<br />
PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT<br />
75% The course has helped me to present myself with confidence (75)<br />
65% My communication skills have improved (79)<br />
65% As a result of the course, I feel confident in tackling unfamiliar problems (89)</fieldset>
<br />
<fieldset>
Bath, Glasgow and Keele courses provide little feedback that helps students understand the course, according to Unistats, along with other small groups of students at other colleges. Looking at the figures, economics courses often score 20-40% while arts subjects can score double. That's a pity, because an annoying thing about economic statements, including mine here, is an ignorance of the opposite point of view.<br />
<br />
I tried searching for detail on the SOAS course, which comes bottom of one of the league tables. Someone has written an online review. It looks intense, rather mass-produced, and reached by commute. The main thing I discovered was that staff put their notes online - the notes of what to tell inspectors in terms of learning outcomes. How can they possibly justify a course called "quantitative methods" that isn't linked to data? If it were, I think the student would have mentioned if it was oriental or African data, but the course seems to be taught un-linked to any specific. Staff have thought of an answer to tell inspectors: this is a learning outcome in itself. By the end of your stats course you should be able to justify its application to vague lists of economic types of problems, or you fail the exam. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey_Appleby">Sir Humphrey</a> would be proud, but students should give this course zero in the satisfaction survey and say why if they get a chance.<br />
<br />
Economics university league tables like The Guardian, The Times, and The Complete University Guide have to share some blame. They conceal bad courses, which is the opposite of what an applicant would want them for. If you want to get into a posh college by doing an awful course, you should do it knowingly, and not find out on day one in the lecture theatre. The same is true of finding good courses in the more obscure or orwellian colleges.<br />
<br />
For example <a href="https://ideas.repec.org/e/pyi82.html">Dr Devrim Sakir Yilmaz</a> - Lecturer at Kingston - got a reference for <i>"fantastic teaching"</i> by the Post-Crash Economics Society when he worked at Manchester. <i>"Devrim's current research is on stock-flow consistent dynamic models, and endogenous monetary policy. He teaches intermediate macroeconomics, money banking and financial markets, and contemporary issues in economics"</i> - writes his current employer, Kingston University, so <a href="https://www.kingston.ac.uk/faculties/faculty-of-arts-and-social-sciences/schools/law-social-and-behavioural-sciences/departments/department-economics/">somewhere in Kingston there might be a very good economics course</a>. Even before he arrived, courses there were 83% interesting except for the maths and business related ones, while the boss at the department has written books on economics that real people buy.<br />
<br />
One league table - the complete university guide - says <i>"The average satisfaction score for all questions except the three about learning resources was calculated and then adjusted for the subject mix at the university. Due to the distribution of the data, and to avoid this measure having an undue influence on the overall ranking, the z-score is divided by three"</i>. Whatever that means, the effect is to put the usual suspect colleges at the bottom of most subject tables, even if they run a good course, while bad courses stay concealed at other universities further up the </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<hr align="left> other posts:<br /> <a href=" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Afterthoughts that don't fit anywhere else - scroll further down for post-crash economics</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Development Economics for developing countries - misfit paragraph</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;">I've learnt a bit about this since college, where there wasn't time to teach it, and found that it's often taught just as badly. <br />
<br />
The bunch I came across used material from Brooks Uni. A textbook called "<a href="http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2004/april/tradoc_111249.pdf" target="_blank">Rigged Rules and Double Standards</a>" divides the world into "north" and "south", which is pretty-much a division between countries with a welfare state in the north and countries with no welfare state, mass poverty, overpopulation, and dangerous T shirt factories in the south.<br />
<br />
The book is published by a development agency, written by one of its staff, and used as a textbook on courses sponsored by the agency. One of the authors, Penny Fowler, studied economics with another subject at Bristol University<br />
<br />
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FI3YMbnlpoQC&sitesec=reviews" target="_blank">The book reflects the opinions of governments where the agency does business</a>, which are generally against providing a welfare state and in favour of asking for lower tariffs and more subsidy. A quote that's apparently from another development economist turns-out to be from the trade minister of Vietnam. The person who wrote the book to order - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/profile/kevinwatkins" title="author of Rigged Rules and Double Standards">Kevin Watkins</a> - sometimes has work published by The Guardian as though a reliable source. </span></span></div>
</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Development Economics for a developed country: UK fashion and design - misfit paragraph</h4>
Meanwhile London College of Fashion hosts <a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/creative_connexions_brief_and_bu_2#comment-7512" title="scumbags">offices that don't do any teaching at all, funded by the Higher Education Funding Council, which means you, me, and missing services for our grannies. One such existed to encourage out-sourcing of UK designers' manufacturing to China. It was called Creative Connexions</a>, with an office near photography languages and the students union, and another office in China. Somewhere in government departments, groups of people thought this was a good idea, probably using ideas they'd picked-up on economics courses. The same office helped with a project called Delphe, funded by the Department for International Development and manged by The British Council, to write fake examples of a thing called Ethical Fashion for UK fashion students. One of them - <i>Juste</i> - simply didn't exist. Most are accompanied by a paragraph headed "<a href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm" title="What is Ethical Fashion?">What is Ethical Fashion</a>", so I have written a page on the subject</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Why do students mark one subject as "made interesting" more than another?<br />
Here is a guess.</h4>
I don't know why students mark some subjects as made interesting and others not. Pharmacy scores better than Economics. I suppose this is a measure of how boring a student expects a subject to be, and whether they are surprised that teachers can make it seem more or less boring as the course unfolds. There's a similar question for "subject ... intellectually stimulating" which might show lower marks for pharmacy, but it's a lot harder to search on unistats; you probably need a stats program and tables of data.<br />
<br />
I went to college after a savage crisis in manufacturing, which indirectly had killed my father's business, reduced a generation's prospects, and still effects my life today just as it effected the hostel residents I worked alongside as a hostel worker, and all the shoe factories that would be open today and supplying my shoe shop but unfortunately are closed and converted into flats.<br />
<br />
My professor, and the kind of colleagues he hired, could not even be bothered to give a thoughtful answer to a question about the subject. The same applies now to students who go to Glasgow University after the banking crisis centred on RBS, and presumably find that their professors cannot even be bothered to give thoughtful answers to questions about the subject. In fact I know so because of the low scores they gave for staff feedback that addresses the issues. A view shared by 20 Aberdeen University students about one of their courses. So I suppose Economics is an unusually disappointing subject and that this disappointment is unusually strong after economic disasters. I did wonder whether a high-pitched accent is what makes the lectures boring, but people adapt, and universities in northern Ireland do not have the same bad feedback, so I think it is the proximity of economic disasters and <a href="http://gormano.blogspot.com/2015/09/goodish-34.html">Dave Gorman</a> impersonators that causes complaints (there have been 3 visitors from the Dave Gorman blog month 1 of this post being published, so I make no baddass comment about <a href="http://www.davegorman.com/">davegorman.com</a>).</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">National Student Survey questions - probably from 2015</span><br />
including optional follow-up questions and extra questions for NHS students</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf">https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf</a></div>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Main Questionnaire</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Not applicable<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
The teaching on my course</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
1. Staff are good at explaining things.<br />
2. Staff have made the subject interesting.<br />
3. Staff are enthusiastic about what they are teaching.<br />
4. The course is intellectually stimulating.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Assessment and feedback</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
5. The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance.<br />
6. Assessment arrangements and marking have been fair.<br />
7. Feedback on my work has been prompt.<br />
8. I have received detailed comments on my work.<br />
9. Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Academic support</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
10. I have received sufficient advice and support with my studies.<br />
11. I have been able to contact staff when I needed to.<br />
12. Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Organisation and management</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
13. The timetable works efficiently as far as my activities are concerned.<br />
14. Any changes in the course or teaching have been communicated effectively.<br />
15. The course is well organised and is running smoothly.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Learning resources</h4>
16. The library resources and services are good enough for my needs.<br />
17. I have been able to access general IT resources when I needed<br />
18. I have been able to access specialised equipment, facilities, or rooms when I needed to.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Personal development</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
19. The course has helped me to present myself with confidence.<br />
20. My communication skills have improved.<br />
21. As a result of the course, I feel confident in tackling unfamiliar problems.<br />
22. Overall, I am satisfied with the quality of the course.<br />
<br />
Looking back on the experience, are there any particularly positive or negative aspects you would like to highlight? (Please use the boxes below.)</div>
<fieldset>
<br />
<br />
<br /></fieldset>
<br />
<fieldset>
<br />
<br />
<br /></fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
National Student Survey Bank of Questions (Optional)</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B1. Careers</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
As a result of my course, I believe that I have improved my career prospects<br />
Good advice is available for making career choices<br />
Good advice is available on further study opportunities<br />
N/A</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B2. Course Content and Structure</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
All of the compulsory modules are relevant to my course<br />
There is an appropriate range of options to choose from on my course<br />
The modules of my course form a coherent integrated whole</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B3. Work Placements</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Did your course involve any work placements?<br />
Yes (ask all questions in this section)<br />
No (skip this section)<br />
I received sufficient support and advice from my institution about the organisation of my placements<br />
My placements were valuable in helping my learning<br />
My placements have helped me to develop my skills in relation to my course<br />
My placements have helped me to develop my general life skills<br />
The taught part of my course was good preparation for my placements</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B4. Social Opportunities</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had plenty of opportunities to interact socially with other students<br />
I am satisfied with the range of clubs and societies on offer<br />
I am satisfied with the range of entertainment and social events on offer</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B5. Course Delivery</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Learning materials made available on my course have enhanced my learning<br />
The range and balance of approaches to teaching has helped me to learn<br />
The delivery of my course has been stimulating<br />
My learning has benefited from modules that are informed by current research<br />
Practical activities on my course have helped me to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B6. Feedback from Students</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had adequate opportunities to provide feedback on all elements of my course<br />
My feedback on the course is listened to and valued<br />
It is clear to me how students comments on the course have been acted upon</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B7. The Physical Environment</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Security has been satisfactory when attending classes<br />
My institution provides an appropriate environment in which to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B8. Welfare Resources and Facilities</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
There is sufficient provision of welfare and student services to meet my needs. <br />
When needed, the information and advice offered by welfare and student services has been helpful</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B9. Workload</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The workload on my course is manageable<br />
This course does not apply unnecessary pressure on me as a student</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The volume of work on my course means I can always complete it to my satisfaction <br />
I am generally given enough time to understand the things I have to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B10. Assessment</h4>
Teaching staff test what I have understood rather than what I have memorised<br />
Assessment methods employed in my course require an in-depth understanding of the course content<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B11. Learning Community</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I feel part of a group of students committed to learning<br />
I have been able to explore academic interests with other students<br />
I have learnt to explore ideas confidently within my course,<br />
I feel my suggestions and ideas are valued<br />
I feel part of an academic community in my college or university</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
B12. Intellectual Motivation</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have found the course motivating<br />
The course has stimulated my interest in the field of study<br />
The course has stimulated my enthusiasm for further learning</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
National Student Survey Questions for NHS-Funded Students only</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree<br />
<input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
N3 Practise placements</h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I received sufficient preparatory information prior to my placement(s)<br />
I was allocated placement(s) suitable for my course I received appropriate supervision on placement(s)<br />
I was given opportunities to meet my required practise learning outcomes / competences<br />
My contribution during placement(s) as part of the clinical team was valued <br />
My practise supervisor(s) understood how my placement(s)related to the broader requirements of my course<br />
N/A</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
Bad economics courses - The most boring places to study economics in the UK - The most over-charged economics students in the UK - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - <span style="color: red;">Student survey questions</span> - Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics - scroll further down for post-crash economics</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">Quality Assurance Agency Benchmark Standards for Economics Degrees</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhBhJNL-M-b15H632728P_Ms5EEydcGu1FBraO7gFthrtKA_z16ujywAjSZ18BL48lfYt4jh8D3V1LC-emsSttEnzL6yNVjMUGodIBuVmOLEQjfzxVkC42sO0-Xwt5UHQi4XCJsaLspBxUE/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhBhJNL-M-b15H632728P_Ms5EEydcGu1FBraO7gFthrtKA_z16ujywAjSZ18BL48lfYt4jh8D3V1LC-emsSttEnzL6yNVjMUGodIBuVmOLEQjfzxVkC42sO0-Xwt5UHQi4XCJsaLspBxUE/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
1 <span style="color: red;">ignorance / </span><span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of economic concepts, principals & tools. <br />
<br />
2 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of distinctive economic theories, intepretations, modelling approaches & <span style="color: #38761d;">their competant use</span>. <br />
<br />
3 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span><span style="color: #b45f06;"> </span><span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness </span>& <span style="color: #38761d;">proficiency </span>in quantitative methods & computing techniques appropriate to their programme of study, <span style="color: #b45f06;">show an appreciation of the contexts in which these techniques and methods are relevant</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">how to use them effectively across a range of problems</span>. <br />
<br />
4 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of sources and content of economic data & evidence, and <span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciate what </span>/ <span style="color: #38761d;">and of those</span> methods that might be appropriately applied to its analysis. <br />
<br />
5 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of how to apply economic reasoning to policy issues <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">in a critical manner</span>. </span><br />
<br />
6 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge awareness </span>& <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of historical, political, institutional international, social, and environmental contexts in which specific economic analysis is applied.<br />
<br />
7 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> in an appropriate number of specialised areas in economics as well as <span style="color: red;">cluelessness</span> or an <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciation of the research literature in these areas</span></span>. </span><br />
<br />
8 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness</span> of & <span style="color: #b45f06;"><span style="color: #38761d;">familiarity</span> </span>with the possibility that many economic problems may admit of more than one approach.<br />
<br />
9 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">awareness of how to choose a course from unistats</span> rather than just choosing a college and hoping the course will be OK; <span style="color: #38761d;">familiarity</span> with the faults of economics courses and how to fuss constructively if the next Fishman talks out of his bottom. This is not on the quango list of points; it just arrived here.<br />
<br />
10 <span style="color: red;">familiarity and understanding</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">awareness of</span><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;"> </span></span><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;"><span style="color: black;">/</span> </span>ignorance</span> of the idea of compulsory insurance, often state-run, with its cheap-deal method of evening-out typical payments and benefits over a life cycle. This is the main work of most European governments, but has to be ignored in order to sell textbooks from Alabama to West Virginia. Completely misleading concepts like "transfer payments" or a slippery american word "welfare" must be used instead. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: #b45f06;">Threshold level is amber</span>; <span style="color: #38761d;">typical level is green</span>. <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Points 9-10 are <span style="font-family: inherit;">not on the QAA site</span></span>.</a></span></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<hr />
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<i>Bad economics courses - The most boring places to study economics in the UK - The most over-charged economics students in the UK - Pattern-spotting: Keele & Glasgow University bad economics - Student survey questions - <span style="color: red;">Quality assurance agency benchmarks for economics</span> - scroll further down for post-crash economics</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<s><br />
Oh, the post crash economics society web site crashed today, so</s> I've pinched their report and added it here even though I haven't read it. <strike>With luck it will soon be back online where</strike> it mainly lives at <a href="http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/">post-crasheconomics.com</a> <s>The last blog post was on the 8th of October 2015 so I doubt it's down forever. You can also download from<br />
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20151010135239/http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/">http://web.archive.org/web/20151010135239/http://www.post-crasheconomics.com/</a></s></blockquote>
<blockquote>
If you are interested in college document about teaching standards called <i>"Manchester Matrix"</i>, it reads better as a table on the original .pdf than the way it has cut-and-pasted here and written Appendix above it, so you know you don't have to scroll-down and check for things underneath. The stuff with purple headings is theirs.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #38761d;">Footnote 1</span></h3>
<hr />
<span style="background-color: #38761d;"><br />
</span> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="background-color: #38761d;"> <span style="color: #6aa84f;"><span style="background-color: white;">Business Economics modules in Social Sciences programmes </span></span></span> </h3>
Business Economics taught in Social Sciences programmes tends to be a difficult product to position. The majority of students—but also, rather surprisingly, colleagues—often focus only on the "Business", and tend to forget the "Economics". Those students attracted by the "Business" side happen to be disappointed or even sometimes disgruntled that the module is in general based on economics principles, including quantitative techniques necessary to understand utility/profit maximisation, cost/benefit analysis, and basic game theoretic approaches to competition. Course conveners and textbook authors are aware of this and, either subconsciously or strategically (in fear of obtaining penalising feedback from students), tend to leave aside more advanced and challenging economics in favour of unenthusiastic analysis of case studies.<br />
The result is that often Business Economics modules are diluted microeconomics units supported by various business case studies, taught by applied micro economists who may not have any real world business experience and who fear to antagonise students by asking them to deal with more technical economic questions. Case studies can be very useful in principle and, correctly utilised, can significantly support learning. However a case study taught by an economist who has not had any first-hand business experience cannot be fully credible, inspiring and engaging to students. They would be good examples for students' revision, nothing more. This situation is neither good for students (who may grow less engaged with the module) nor for course conveners (uneasy, uncomfortable, too worried to displease students). <br />
<br />
<i>- Mario Pezzino's introductory paragraphs to "<a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/showcase/pezzino_guestlectures">The use of professional guest lectures in Business Economics modules</a>", published on <a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/">The Economics Network</a> site in November 2015. Mario Pezzino works at Manchester University.</i></blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Appendix 2 made sense when the post crash economics society's own web site went offline. It looks rude to post it here, now that their site is back on the web, but nobody cares what is this far-down a long web page and I will leave it for a while. </span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Economics, Education and Unlearning:</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Economics Education at the University of Manchester</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The Post-Crash Economics Society<br />
With a Foreword by Andrew Haldane (Bank of England)<br />
1<br />
Published by the Post-Crash Economics Society at the University of Manchester- April 2014.<br />
Email: post.crasheconomics@gmail.com<br />
Address: The Post-Crash Economics Society, University of Manchester Students’ Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR.<br />
Acknowledgements: We would like to thank Andy Haldane for kindly agreeing to write a foreword for our report. We would also like to thank Victoria Chick, Ha Joon Chang and all the other economists who have supported our society and Patricia Elder for her help in editing this document. Finally, we would like to thank <a href="http://fass.kingston.ac.uk/faculty/staff/cv.php?staffnum=1048" title="This teacher now works at Kingston University">Devrim Sakir Yilmaz</a> [now at Kingston Uni] for his fantastic teaching and his brave commitment to economics.<br />
Contents of the report may be quoted or reproduced for non-commercial purposes provided that the source of information is acknowledged.<br />
2<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Contents Page</span></h3>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
FORWARD BY ANDREW HALDANE:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">THE REVOLUTION IN ECONOMICS</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
p3 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
p7<br />
<span style="color: purple;">INTRODUCTION</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
12 SECTION 1:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">WHAT’S WRONG WITH ECONOMICS EDUCATION AT MANCHESTER?</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
14 SECTION 2:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">ANALYSIS OF CORE MICRO AND MACRO MODULES</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
19 SECTION 3:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">THE FORMATION OF THE STATUS QUO AND ITS REPRODUCTION</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
23 SECTION 4:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">RESPONDING TO ARGUMENTS AGAINST CHANGE</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
25 SECTION 5:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">THE COMPELLING CASE FOR REFORM</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
32 SECTION 6:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">REAL CONSTRAINTS TO CHANGE AT MANCHESTER</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
42 SECTION 7:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">PRINCIPLES OF A POST-CRASH ECONOMICS EDUCATION AND SOME PRACTICAL REFORMS</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
45 CONCLUSION:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">WHY IS THE CRISIS SO IMPORTANT?</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
51 APPENDIX 1:<br />
<span style="color: purple;">RESPONSE TO<br />
THE INSTITUTE FOR NEW ECONOMIC THINKING’S CORE PROGRAMME</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
53 <span style="color: purple;">BIBLIOGRAPHY </span></h4>
<br />
<br />
<hr />
3<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">The Revolution in Economics</span></h3>
By Andrew Haldane, Executive Director for Financial Stability at the Bank of England<br />
<br />
Adam Smith is generally thought to be the father of economics. The reason for that is his book The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776. This book reached a number of startling, almost miraculous, conclusions. Among these was that the pursuit of self-interest, at the level of an individual household or firm, resulted in aggregate outcomes which could be optimal for society as a whole. In other words, the Invisible Hand was benign and benevolent. Competition was good. Greed was good.<br />
<br />
On Smith’s shoulders, the fundamental theorems of welfare economics were built. These formed the theoretical bedrock of 20th century economics. Out of these foundations were constructed optimising models of the economy with aesthetically beautiful properties – dynamic, stochastic general equilibrium models. These typically embedded an equilibrium which was unique, stationary and efficient. And they typically embodied expectations which were ordered and rational. The dynamics of the resulting socio-economic models were classically Newtonian, resembling the damped harmonic motion of Newton’s pendulum.<br />
<br />
Not surprisingly, the mathematical techniques used to derive and solve these models were also a straight lift and shift from theoretical physics. And, to complete the physics-envy, economists’ methodological approach was explicitly deductive. That enabled macro-economics, as a fledgling (and perhaps rather self-conscious) discipline, to be built on optimising foundations. These gave the impression of rigour and solidity. Micro-founded models were not only simple and beautiful, but also more suitable for policy analysis care of the Lucas critique.<br />
<br />
In the light of the financial crisis, those foundations no longer look so secure. Unbridled competition, in the financial sector and elsewhere, was shown not to have served wider society well. Greed, taken to excess, was found to have been bad. The Invisible Hand could, if pushed too far, prove malign and malevolent, contributing to the biggest loss of global<br />
<hr />
4<br />
incomes and output since the 1930s. The pursuit of self-interest, by individual firms and by individuals within these firms, has left society poorer.<br />
<br />
The crisis has also laid bare the latent inadequacies of economic models with unique stationary equilibria and rational expectations. These models have failed to make sense of the sorts of extreme macro-economic events, such as crises, recessions and depressions, which matter most to society. The expectations of agents, when push came to shove, proved to be anything but rational, instead driven by the fear of the herd or the unknown. The economy in crisis behaved more like slime descending a warehouse wall than Newton’s pendulum, its motion more organic than harmonic.<br />
<br />
In this light, it is time to rethink some of the basic building blocks of economics. And in this rethink we could do worse than return to Adam Smith. For just prior to the Wealth of Nations, Smith had produced a rather different book. It was called The Theory of Moral Sentiments and was published in 1759. In it, Smith emphasises cooperation, as distinct from competition, as a way of satisfying society’s needs. It places centre-stage concepts such as reciprocity and fairness, values rather than value.<br />
<br />
Experimental research makes clear the importance of these concepts when studying decision-making in socio-economic systems. Fairness and reciprocity, rather than self-interest, emerge from the simplest imaginable games of human interaction. The “Ultimatum Game” is one in which a money offering – say, £100 - is shared between two parties, with one party taking the lead in the offer and the second choosing to accept or reject that offer. The twist comes in the fact that, if the offer is rejected, both parties receive nothing.<br />
<br />
So what offer should the first party make? The self-interested rational expectations solution – if you like, Smith 1776 vintage – is to offer the lowest amount possible, such as £1. Why? Because it would be irrational for the second party to reject that offer because doing so makes them worse off. Yet reject it they do, consistently so, in experimental trials.<br />
<br />
The reason is that the offer violates the second party’s sense of fairness – in other words, Smith 1759 vintage. And for that reason, the offer made by the first party is very rarely the lowest-possible, self-interested one. Typically, it is closer to a sharing of the spoils.<br />
<hr />
5<br />
Reciprocity and fairness are centre-stage. The same has been found in numerous other socio-interactive games. These confirm we are a co-operative species every bit as much as a competitive one. This is hardly a surprising conclusion for sociologists and anthropologists. But for economists it turns the world on its head.<br />
The good news is that there are signs economics may be going back to the future. If the Wealth of Nations was the book for the 20th century, the Theory of Moral Sentiments may be the book for the 21st. Smith is being rediscovered in his true colours – as political scientist, sociologist and moral philosopher. This is evidenced in the upsurge in interest in integrating the insights from other disciplines into economics: history, psychology, anthropology, evolutionary biology, sociology and neuroscience, to name but six.<br />
This, and the intrigue and pain of the crisis, has added to the lustre of economics as a discipline. This is reflected in the record number of applications to universities. This renewed interest, at grass roots level, offers the discipline a real opportunity; it is the silver lining to the dark cloud created by the financial crisis. But it is an opportunity that can only be seized if the grass roots are adequately fed and watered. And that is where the economics curriculum comes into the picture.<br />
<br />
Four years ago, George Soros set up the Institute for New Economic Thinking (INET) to stimulate a refresh and reset of the economics discipline and, within that, economics teaching. Two years ago, Gregory Mankiw’s undergraduate economics class at Harvard walked-out at the narrowness of the curriculum. Here in the UK, Wendy Carlin from UCL is leading a project to reform the <a href="https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/programmes/curriculum" target="_blank">economics curriculum among a number of UK universities, with sponsorship from INET</a>. These are all encouraging steps in the right direction.<br />
<br />
But change, to be durable, needs also to come from the next generation. That is why this report, from the Post-Crash Economics Society at the University of Manchester, is so very welcome. It suggests a groundswell, not just of interest but of concern, among the student population about the current shape of the economics curriculum among UK universities. Although the most prominent example of student activism on this front, it is by no means the only, with more than half a dozen universities also part of what appears to be an increasingly vocal movement.<br />
<hr />
6<br />
The agenda set out in this Report is exciting and compelling. While not exhaustive, it begins to break open some of the economics discipline’s self-imposed shackles. Some of this is discovery of the new – for example, in the area of evolutionary, neuro and behavioural economics. But a large part is rediscovery of the old – or, in some cases, dusting down of the neglected – for example, in the area of institutional economics, economic history and money and banking.<br />
<br />
The proposed methodology is pluralist. It is also cross-disciplinary. It combines deductive and inductive methods. For economists, data-mining – the ultimate in inductive methods – remains a dirty word. For many other professions these days, it is a potential goldmine. This methodological blind-spot is one economists need quickly to eradicate.<br />
<br />
Employers of economists, like the Bank of England, stand to benefit from such an evolution in the economics curriculum. Answering effectively public policy questions of the future requires an understanding of the past. It also requires eclecticism in the choice of methodology, a knowledge of political economy, an appreciation of institutions, an understanding of money and banking. A revamped economics curriculum could serve these needs, and hence those of public policy, well.<br />
<br />
The power of economics is that it affects real lives in real ways; it matters. And it is because it matters and because it affects us all that the profession, still fledgling, needs to be in a perpetual state of renewal. The crisis is bringing about that renewal. Reports such as this, if acted on wisely, would help make that renewal permanent and on-going. I hope it is acted on and wisely.<br />
<hr />
7<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Executive Summary</span></h3>
This report represents the most comprehensive statement to date of the University of Manchester Post-Crash Economics Society’s (PCES) critique of economics education in the UK. It is based on research carried out at the University of Manchester by members of the Manchester PCES committee. However, the findings of this report are highly relevant to economics education on a national and international level because of the relative homogeneity of undergraduate economics education. Widespread student discontent is illustrated by the presence of similar societies at Cambridge, London School of Economics, Sheffield, Glasgow, Essex, University College London and the School of Oriental and African Studies.<br />
<br />
The purpose of this report is to provide a detailed, evidence-based argument outlining the shortcomings of economics education at the University of Manchester. Our economics education has raised one paradigm, often referred to as neoclassical economics, to the sole object of study. Alternative perspectives have been marginalised. This stifles innovation, damages creativity and suppresses constructive criticisms that are so vital for economic understanding. Furthermore, the study of ethics, politics and history are almost completely absent from the syllabus. We propose that economics cannot be understood with all these aspects excluded; the discipline must be redefined.<br />
<br />
Significant reform of the syllabus is necessary. At Manchester economics education as it currently stands fails to meet the University’s own standards for an undergraduate degree. On a national level the increasing narrowness of economics education has led to the technicalisation of economic debate. Economic policies are increasingly seen to represent scientific truth as opposed to the prescriptions of one paradigm. Lack of diversity within the discipline stifles innovation and leads to hubris.<br />
<br />
This report is not only a critique of the status quo. Our society’s ethos is based on constructively engaging with our Economics Department. In the latter sections we outline a set of principles that, if adopted, would provide an economics education better able to meet the needs of students, the discipline and society. We also set out short and medium term<br />
<hr />
8<br />
reforms that we believe the University of Manchester ought to consider. In short, we argue for pluralism of perspectives and the inclusion of ethics, history and politics. We advocate an approach that begins with economic phenomena and then gives students a toolkit to evaluate how well different perspectives can explain it. The discipline should be conceptualised as an ecosystem, as the importance of diversity and the cross-fertilisation of paradigms are key to success.<br />
<br />
We acknowledge that we are only students and some may attempt to dismiss our arguments as youthfully naïve or misinformed. Our argument is idealistic in the sense that it is challenging economics as a discipline, asking it to do much more to equip the next generation with the skills to address the challenges our world faces. However, we hope that our idealism is tempered by our approach to campaigning in which we aspire to combine high standards of academic rigor and professionalism. We have carried out extensive research to substantiate the arguments we make and have engaged constructively with our department to provide alternatives as well as criticisms. Our arguments are rooted in established principles of academic debate, method and development.<br />
<br />
We are aware of the limitations of our knowledge and we aim to be humble in recognising that we don’t have all of the answers. For this reason it is significant that we have been supported by a number of prominent economists, journalists and policy makers including Andrew Haldane, Ha-Joon Chang, Victoria Chick, Stephen Davies and Lord Robert Skidelsky. They add experience and authority to our campaign.<br />
But why is the content of the economics curriculum a national issue? Why should anyone care who economics departments hire? Because ‘economics affects real lives in real ways’ as Andrew Haldane states in his foreword to this report. Economists have enormous power and responsibility. They are at once public servants and private actors who must navigate a host of conflicting interests. The quality of their advice and guidance is essential to our society’s future prosperity and sustainability as evidenced so clearly by the Financial Crisis. Questions of how future economists are trained and who gets to use the title economist are, we believe, some of the defining issues of our times. The ability to define economic<br />
<hr />
9<br />
reality and our society’s economic priorities is at stake. The state of economics affects everyone.<br />
We have written this report in the hope that it provokes debate about the state of economics education in the UK. Reform must come from individual universities and from national bodies such as the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE). Britain has a proud and distinguished history of economic thought. Without significant reforms the future will be darker.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Key findings:</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Economics education at Manchester has elevated one economic paradigm, often called neoclassical economics, to the sole object of study. Other schools of thought such as institutional, evolutionary, Austrian, post-Keynesian, Marxist, feminist and ecological economics are almost completely absent.</li>
<li>The consequence of the above is to preclude the development of meaningful critical thinking and evaluation. In the absence of fundamental disagreement over methodology, assumptions, objectives and definitions, the practise of being critical is reduced to technical and predictive disagreements. A discipline with a broader knowledge of alternative perspectives will be more internally self-critical and aware of the limits of its knowledge. Universities cannot justify this monopoly of one economic paradigm.</li>
<li>The ethics of being an economist and the ethical consequences of economic policies are almost completely absent from the syllabus.</li>
<li>History of economic thought is an optional third year module which students are put off taking due to it requiring essay writing skills that have not been extensively developed elsewhere in the degree. Very little economic history is taught. Students finish an economics degree without any knowledge of momentous economic events from the Great Depression to the break-up of the Bretton Woods Monetary System.</li>
</ul>
<hr />
10<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>When taken together, these points mean that economics students are taught the economic theory of one perspective as if it represented universally established truth or law.</li>
<li>This state of affairs violates the University’s own guidelines for undergraduate education at Manchester. The Manchester Matrix sets out the knowledge and skills the University expects graduates to have. To take just one example, it states that university education should ‘prepare graduates for citizenship and leadership in diverse, global environments’. In a discipline such as economics this seems particularly relevant, and yet social, political and philosophical issues are divorced from the discipline and are removed to optional modules in other departments. Pure economics students are encouraged not to take these modules as they are seen as less valuable.</li>
<li>Syllabuses are almost homogeneous at many English universities. Widespread support for our society in Manchester and the emergence of similar societies at ten universities around the country shows that many are frustrated with the current situation.</li>
<li>Fifteen years ago the Economics Department at Manchester was pluralist and alternative perspectives and economic history had a far greater place on the syllabus. Since then academics that research in alternative perspectives have been marginalised within the department and aren’t replaced on a like for like basis when they retire or leave.</li>
<li>A significant cause of this great narrowing is how research funding (REF) in economics is allocated. The journals that are highly ranked espouse a neoclassical perspective and as a result universities like Manchester, whose central aim is to climb the research rankings, will only hire academics that adhere to this school of thought. The prioritisation of research over all else means that many university economics departments have become closed shops to economists who do not follow this prescribed agenda, regardless of the positive impact they could have on teaching and understanding.</li>
<li>A range of graduate employers of economists support calls for a more pluralist and critical education. The Government Economics Service, the largest employer of</li>
</ul>
<hr />
11<br />
<ul>
<li>graduate economists, advises applicants against a ‘dogged adherence to… a set of axiomatic rules for theoretic consistency’. Instead it looks for candidates that are ‘intellectually pluralistic’. Multiple employers including as the Bank of England and the big-four accountancy firms are similarly calling for better-equipped economic graduates.</li>
<li>These points combine to make a compelling case for significant reform.<br />
In conclusion, the University must ensure that the academic environment within the Economics Department is open and representative of the diversity of economics. This is the only way we can produce economists of the calibre needed to face approaching economic challenges. The cost of maintaining the status quo is too high.</li>
</ul>
<hr />
12<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Introduction</span></h3>
<i>"I don't care who writes a nation's laws, or crafts its treatises, if I can write its economics textbooks."<br />
Paul Samuelson</i><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<br />
The Post-Crash Economics Society was set up by the students of the University of Manchester in December 2012 to campaign for changes to the syllabus and teaching of economics at the University of Manchester. A year on we have provoked and contributed to international debate around questions such as what makes a good economist and what makes a good economics education. We have written a petition in which we outline our concerns with economics education and what changes we want to see. Our aim as a society is not just to criticise the status quo but also to engage constructively with the Economics Department and the University of Manchester to identify realistic and practical reforms. </div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
This report has six purposes:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>To outline our arguments for extensive reform of economics education at the University of Manchester in greater depth and to provide supporting evidence to substantiate our claims.</li>
<li>To identify some of the factors which have played a role in the formation and reproduction of the current state of affairs.</li>
<li>To respond to a number of common counter-arguments against reforming economics education at the University of Manchester.</li>
<li>To identify the constraints that the University of Manchester faces and suggest how these constraints could be worked around.</li>
<li>To provide a set of principles that we believe are a necessary part of an economics education.</li>
<li>To outline a set of realistic and practical recommendations for reform based upon these principles.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<hr />
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
13<br />
In this report, we focus on economics education at the University of Manchester. It is where we study and where we have the most direct influence in pushing for change. However, it is important that we emphasise that the problems we identify are certainly not limited to Manchester and are in fact international in scale. An Institute for New Economic Thinking (INET) report illustrates the relative homogeneity of economics education at the 12 leading universities in Britain and suggests that the findings of this report are relevant to universities around the country (Wigstrom, 2011). A large number of economics students around the country clearly feel similarly. We have met students at Cambridge, the London School of Economics, University College London, Exeter, Essex, Glasgow, Sheffield and the School of African and Oriental Studies all of whom are running similar societies and campaigns. We hope that this report will help them to develop their campaigns and argue effectively for change. Any real solution to the national shortcomings of economics education will have to combine both local reforms at individual universities and national reforms by higher education funding bodies and the government.<br />
<br />
In the last few months the state of economics education and the Post-Crash Economics Society has been the subject of national and international media coverage and discussion. Throughout the coverage and discussion there has been a fairly broad consensus that economics education must be reformed. There is less consensus on the extent and breadth of reform that would be desirable and on deciding what the right mechanisms for implementing these reforms might be. In Britain, the CORE programme run by INET and led by Wendy Carlin is providing an influential road map for economics reform. Wendy, in a recent Financial Times op-ed, argues that “economics explains our world – but economics degrees don’t” (2013). This diagnosis places the blame for the state of economics education on the universities but not on the wider discipline as a whole. To the contrary, we argue that economics education is inextricably linked to the discipline and that its problems often mirror problems with the wider discipline (see appendix A for our full response to CORE). We cannot improve economics education in undergraduate courses alone. We must also address related problems in research funding and the wider profession.<br />
<hr />
14<br />
To provide evidence for our arguments we have carried out an analysis of the economics modules on offer at Manchester. We have attempted to be academically rigorous and to support all of our arguments with evidence. We have tried to clearly identify where we have sourced our evidence and explain the methods we have used to collect it. Of course as a student society we are limited by time, resources and expertise and so we haven’t been able to complete as extensive an analysis as we would have wished. Having said that we do believe that our argument as it is presented in this report is a compelling and accurate one and must be taken seriously by our Economics Department, the University of Manchester and by other universities around the country.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 1: What’s wrong with economics education at Manchester?</span></h3>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(1) It fails to cover other schools of thought or ways of doing economics in any systematic way.</span></h4>
The object of study of ‘economics’ is confused with a single methodological framework used to interpret the economy. Commonly known as neoclassical economics, this school is characterised by an approach where individual agents seek to optimise their preferences under exogenous imposed constraints. However, competing definitions of economics could easily be offered:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Social reproduction – how does a firm, family, society reproduce itself? (the classical definition);</li>
<li>The study of production, distribution and exchange (neoclassical economics typically focuses only on the latter);</li>
<li>The study of markets and the enterprise system; and</li>
<li>The interactions between exchange, culture and gender.</li>
</ul>
We are often told that we are really not looking for ‘economics’ and hence should be studying other things. However, this would only be acceptable if we were to assume, and to accept, that ‘economics’ as it is currently studied is correctly defined. We are instead arguing that it cannot be defined in this narrow manner alone and that doing so is unjustified and leads to dogma. A wealth of knowledge and research exists in all<br />
<hr />
15<br />
of these areas shown above and more, much of which many economists have either marginalised or are unaware of. Of those mainstream economists who do concede that alternative theories provide useful insights, many simply argue that they can be annexed into a neoclassical framework. The question of why this is necessary and justified needs to be explored.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(2) It fails to look in any depth at the assumptions or methodology of the economic theories and models we are taught.</span></h4>
Students are not taught when a particular theory may be applicable and when it may not be: in Musgrave’s terminology, the domain of theories is not clearly defined (Musgrave, 1981). Economics bears some analogy to engineering, where various principles are used to establish theories that work well enough for practical purposes. Yet unlike engineering, the relevance and applicability of particular theories in particular situations are not as clear in economics. Engineers know which types of gas are sufficiently well approximated by the ‘perfect gas’ model, but how are economists supposed to know in which types of industries firms will conform to, for example, the Cournot or Bertrand models, if either? We believe that economics students must be able to analyse the assumptions and methodology of a theory. These tools will enable students to judge not only the validity (logical coherence) but also the soundness (empirical relevance) of economic theory for themselves.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(3) It places little emphasis on the application of economic theory to understand economic phenomena and little value on substantive knowledge of the national and international economy and its history.</span></h4>
Typically courses are taught deductively, beginning with the assumptions or axioms, and logically deducing theory ‘rigorously’ from micro foundations. At best, the implications of the theory are shown to be loosely consistent with a few stylised facts toward the end of the course, but this is not good enough, for several reasons.<br />
<br />
First, stylised facts are not the same as extensive empirical investigation and very rarely does there seem to be rigorous testing of falsifiable predictions as required by positivist epistemology.<br />
<hr />
16<br />
Second, many of these stylised facts are trivial: for example, inter-temporal macroeconomics is consistent with the idea that governments will run deficits followed by surpluses, a simple observation which is explained in an unnecessarily mathematical and at times, somewhat convoluted manner.<br />
Third, stylised facts can be consistent with many theories. For example, the fact that the money supply is correlated with economic growth is consistent with both endogenous and exogenous money theories, as shown by e.g. Kaldor (1982) or Tobin (1970). We argue instead that economics should be taught inductively wherever possible. On this approach evidence is presented – statistical data, historical analysis, case studies, experiments etc. – and then the theories which plausibly accord with the evidence should be taught as interpretations of that evidence.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(4) There is little economic history and one optional third year history of economic thought module.</span></h4>
The history of economic thought module is not running this year because the lecturer is unwell. We appreciate this is unavoidable, but unfortunately there is no one else in the Department willing or able to teach the course. If economic theory is a representation of social reality, there is an inescapable historical specificity to any theory. At the extreme, a theory of how hunter-gatherers organise themselves would clearly differ from a theory of capitalism. However, even within capitalist theories, welfare state capitalism might function differently to laissez-faire capitalism, or a predominantly service-based economy might function differently to a manufacturing-based economy. The relevance of the fact that Keynes’ General Theory was published in the midst of the Great Depression is hard to dispute. Understanding where theories came from, and why, will help students to make better judgements about interpreting and applying theory to analysis of economic phenomena as discussed in (2) above.<br />
<hr />
17<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(5) There is little to no emphasis on the ethics, philosophy and politics of economics.</span></h4>
Economists often proceed with their analysis as if it is a purely quantitative, value-free and scientific enterprise. However, we do not believe this is possible, as questions about the economy inevitably involve value judgements. For instance, which metric should we evaluate the economy by and how should we measure it? What is presumed to be ‘good’ or ‘bad’? Can we ethically justify recommending policies, and if so why? Currently value judgements are implicit within the theories we are taught: for example, efficiency and growth are generally presumed to be a good thing. We learn the axioms of utility and we learn how to build a theory from them but we spend little to no time discussing whether utility is an adequate concept of value and welfare. It seems even more absurd that we can have a field entitled ‘welfare economics’ and insist that questions about values are obvious or subsidiary.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(6) It fails to adequately train students to have many of the skills that are vital to succeed in the working world.</span></h4>
Tutorials consist of copying problem sets off the board rather than discussing economic ideas and 18 out of 48 modules have 50% or more marks given by multiple-choice. Only 11 out of 48 modules even include the words "critical", "evaluate" or "compare" in learning objectives. The consequence is an economics education that trains students to digest economic theory and regurgitate it in exams, but never question the assumptions that underpin it. This means that the development of skills such as written communication, explaining economic concepts to non-specialist audiences and problem solving are grossly underdeveloped. Another key skill that is missing from our economics education is judgement. ‘Judgement consists in choice: in recognising why one explanation of the phenomena is superior to another’; why one line of reasoning leads to misleading results and another to illuminating results; ‘and why in the light of evidence this, and not that, explanation should be preferred’ (Freeman, 2007, pg. 11).<br />
<hr />
18<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">(7) It doesn’t place emphasis on developing the tools to be able to critically evaluate economic theory and the lack of pluralism prevents critical comparison.</span></h4>
The student is not taught the tools that are needed to be able to judge which abstractions are defensible and which are not and which reasoning is preferable. Students are penalised for considering variety and rewarded for reproducing existing thought by rote, since overwhelming priority is given to demonstrating the ability to apply a prescribed, allegedly homogeneous theory. Science consists in testing theories against evidence to determine which is best but the state of affairs outlined in (1) and (2) above prevents this (Freeman, pg. 10).<br />
The result is that ‘economics’ as it is currently taught unjustifiably emphasises its scientific status. We have already seen a common objection to our society is that only mainstream economists do ‘real’ economics. Some economists go even further and argue that economics is inherently better than the other social sciences (Lazear, 1999).<br />
<br />
Not all economists are prone to such bravado, but we do believe that in general they do not do enough to teach students about its limitations. This is linked to and reinforces the broad outcome of teaching economic theory as truth, which comes to the surface when economic ideas are communicated to non-economic audiences with the implicit assumption that the economist is necessarily right. Such thinking is demonstrated in popular books like Freakonomics, The Undercover Economist, The Accidental Theorist and The Economic Naturalist. If economics education entailed a greater appreciation of the ethical, historical and political foundations of the discipline, an appreciation of alternative approaches and a more evidence (less axiom) based approach, we believe this would go some way toward alleviating these problems.<br />
<hr />
19<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 2: Analysis of core micro and macro modules</span></h3>
The University of Manchester provides 12 undergraduate micro and macro modules which make up a quarter of modules available. These modules are the backbone of an undergraduate economics degree at The University of Manchester. All economics students do first and second year modules and the vast majority do third year modules. An analysis of these modules provides evidence of the problems with economics education we identified in Section 1. We use the notation (Section 1 (x)) to highlight when our analysis corroborates the arguments in the previous section, where x represents the specific point. This analysis was compiled using the module course outlines, past papers and in some cases our own experiences of the modules.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
First year:</h4>
ECON10041 Principles of Micro and ECON10042 Principles of Macro (For those without A level economics),<br />
ECON10081 UK Micro and ECON100082 UK Macro (For those with A level economics).<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>100% of marks awarded by multiple choice exam for both Principles modules in first year.</li>
<li>UK Micro and Macro have 90% awarded by multiple choice exams and the other 10% is an essay. However, this essay is only 1,000 words long and students get 100% for handing it in on time. This means that many students don’t widely research the topic or fully engage with the material.</li>
</ul>
Micro and Macro Principles are a delivery of neoclassical theory and students are expected to learn the theory by rote. There is no mention of what school of thought is being taught or that there are any other schools of thought. It is presented as facts about the world which leads to the possibility of students believing that these ideas represent indisputable truths (Section 1 (1)). Keynes is mentioned briefly in Macro Principles but the ideas presented are actually those of John Hicks and his version of Keynesian thought, rather than of Keynes himself. There is no time given to looking at the underlying assumptions in either<br />
<hr />
20<br />
of these two modules, very little real world application and no historical context as to where these ideas came from (Section 1 (2), (3) and (4)). Apart from the odd mention of economic growth in China and hyperinflation there is no proper analysis of how the theory taught is applied to these examples. The most concerning thing is the complete lack of critical engagement and opportunity for the students to discuss what they are learning. Tutorials comprise of working through problem sets and there is no opportunity to discuss the material in any real depth with the teaching assistants and lecturers (Section 1(6) and (7)).<br />
<br />
In UK Micro and Macro the multiple-choice structure of both exams rewards the ability to regurgitate textbook information, and fails to encourage students to think analytically about economic problems. Students become disillusioned with the wider challenges of economics and are immersed in learning a set of diagrams and equations. Furthermore, according to the mark scheme in UK Micro, marks are awarded for mentioning all the pricing theories which are taught but if a student provides an in-depth discussion of the economic implications of one or two pricing theories this goes unrewarded. In-depth analysis of theories shows a much greater economic understanding but is disregarded in place of the ability to repeat given information. This is a missed opportunity for students to learn skills of critical reflection (Section 1(6) and<br />
(7). This system of memorising information to pass an exam leaves students with fragmented ‘bits’ of theory rather than a solid base to build economic knowledge on.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Second year:</h4>
Micro IIA and Micro IIB. Macro 2A and Macro 2B</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Micro IIA and IIB both have multiple choice final exams, worth 67% and 70% of the module respectively. Both have a midterm exam: for IIA it is a collection of short essay questions (33%), while for IIB it is a mathematical exercise (30%).</li>
<li>Macro IIA only has a final exam, which is 50% multiple choice and 50% a mathematical exercise. Macro IIB is 30% a multiple choice midterm exam and 70% a final exam which consist of mathematical/diagrammatic/logical derivation of key theories.</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<hr />
21<br />
There are similarities between Micro IIA and Macro IIB: both consist solely of deriving neoclassical theories with optimising agents, using words, algebra or diagrams (Section 1(1) and (3)). Similarly, Micro IIB and Macro IIA both consist of using neoclassical theory to solve mathematical problems and possibly being asked to comment on the “economic intuition” behind the results you get. Again this fits the problem as set out in Section 1(1) and (3), but it also fits (2), as no attempt is made to discern whether the theory learnt is relevant or not. All modules lack the elements raised in Section 1(4) and 1(6), and thus students are left with only abstract theories and little knowledge of where they came from, when it is appropriate to apply them or how to explain their implications to a general audience. There is a small effort to do the latter in a Macro IIA tutorial, but it isn’t a significant part of the course.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Third year:</h4>
Micro III (20 credits), Macro IIIA, Macro IIIB and Advanced Macro. BA and BEconSci students are not currently given the option to write a dissertation.</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>ECON30600 Micro III: Semester 1 has one formative essay during term time and the final exam is 2 essay questions (100%). Semester 2 is a midterm essay (33%) and a final exam (67%). The course uses the concept of rationally optimising individuals to understand a variety of types of markets: insurance, information asymmetry, public goods and more. The explanations are generally diagrammatic and/or mathematical.</li>
<li>ECON30611 Macro IIIA: 90% final exam, 10% midterm essay. Both of these consist largely in deriving a mathematical model and commenting on its policy implications.</li>
<li>ECON30612 Macro IIIB: 90% final exam, 10% midterm essay.</li>
</ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Micro III and Macro IIIA highlight a number of issues set out in Section 1. There is only one type of model taught (even if it has numerous iterations) (Section 1(1), while students are simply required to regurgitate the taught models (Section 1(7)), and the models are taught deductively (Section 1(3)). Section 1(5) is particularly relevant for Macro IIIA, as it discusses the ‘correct’ policies for central banks to pursue. The lecturer repeatedly implies that elected politicians cannot be trusted as they are opportunistic and so central banks may need to be independent. What of the ethical implications of separating policy from<br />
<hr />
22<br />
democracy? Or of the political debate surrounding the motives of politicians (e.g. Lewin 1991)? If economists claim that such debates are outside the domain of economics, then economics should refrain from commenting on policy at all.<br />
<br />
It is true that Microeconomics III discusses some of the problems with expected utility theory, but this begs a few further questions: why, if the theory is so obviously wrong (which seems to be implied), should it be taught at all? Why is it at least not presented alongside some alternatives? Why not, as we argue in (Section 1(3)), lead with actual studies of how people make choices in the face of risk and go from there?<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Summary</span></h3>
We believe that an analysis of the core Micro and Macro substantiates all of the flaws we identify with economics education at Manchester in Section 1. The subject matter, teaching approaches and style of examination we have highlighted in this analysis are broadly reflective of all the economics modules at Manchester. There are exceptions and differences between modules of course and we hope to follow up this report with further analysis of economics modules. Despite these differences, the broad norm is for examinations to require regurgitation of theory as reflected by the prevalence of multiple choice exams, highlighted in our core Micro and Macro analysis. All in all 18 out of 48 modules have 50% or more of the mark graded by multiple choice examination and 9 have 90% or more.<br />
<br />
We do know that in the first year ‘Studying Economics’ module (only open to BEconSci students) students have to do a presentation on an influential historical economist. However, each group only covers one economist which is not enough to give students a coherent picture of the historical context of economic theory. The modules ‘History of Economic Thought’ and ‘Property and Justice: From Grotius to Rawls’ do significantly differ from the core Micro and Macro modules but they are third year optional modules. This means that, as these two new topics are introduced at the last stages of the degree very few economics students are prepared to take them. The subject matter and teaching approach is unfamiliar and so presents a great risk when students are trying to ensure as high mark as possible in their final year. The development stream of modules does cover some alternative theories and is more applied to the real world. One learning objective in<br />
<hr />
23<br />
Development Economics 3, “evaluate critically the rise of FDI and TNCs and their role in the development of emerging market economies” is conspicuous as one of the few exceptions to the general norm. A central objective of economics education reform at Manchester must be the core Macro and Micro syllabus, as it is currently deeply flawed and yet also the backbone of all economics degrees.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 3: The formation of the status quo and its reproduction</span></h3>
<i>“He who knows only his own side of the case doesn’t know much about it. His reasons may be good, and no-one may have been able to refute them; but if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, and doesn’t even know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion.”<br />
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty</i><br />
<br />
As little as 15 years ago the Economics Department at Manchester had a considerably wider range of professors who self-identified with different economic paradigms and had very different research agendas. This led to a far more eclectic undergraduate syllabus with modules such as comparative economic theory, comparative economic systems and alternative perspectives on developing economies being available for students to study. The Economics Department has radically changed in composition in the last 15 years and it is these changes that are the root cause of many of the problems we outlined in Section 1.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">The Power to Define what is and isn’t Economics</span></h3>
The Research Excellence Framework (REF) and academic journals have the power to define what is and isn’t economics and within that, what is good economics and bad economics. REF determines how much research funding each university gets and is a label of research prowess. Every four years a panel of leading academic economists grade departments on the basis of individual publications whose academic quality is inferred from the status and ranking of economics journals. The problem is that there are no recognisably heterodox<br />
<hr />
24<br />
economists on this panel and that the grading is done behind closed doors with only departmental ratings published. The outcome of the REF rating process is to elevate the neoclassical framework to the standard by which all economics research is judged.<br />
<br />
Departments and individual lecturers are forced to respond to the definitions of economics set by these bodies. Universities push economics departments to improve their research rankings, which in turn increases research funding and the University’s prestige. All academics will be familiar with the pressure to produce publishable work as the primary indicator of their academic quality and a significant determinant of their career progression. This means that academic economists must work with neoclassical assumptions and methodology if they wish to secure academic tenure and advance within the leading economics departments.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">The Great Narrowing</span></h3>
The Department at Manchester is becoming more homogeneous over time. As non-mainstream Manchester professors have retired from expanding departments they have been replaced by young recruits. These recruits represent a narrow range of mainstream economists who had been published, or were more likely to be published, in the mainstream American Journals (Big 5: AER, Chicago etc). This homogeneity puts the Department in the position of not having the capability to teach other schools of thought or history of economic thought. As mentioned above, this year the professor who taught history of economic thought was unwell and Manchester had to cancel the course. In one of the biggest economics departments in the country it is shocking that only one professor is willing and able to teach history of economic thought. This narrowing process reinforces itself; now many young lecturers and teaching assistants aren’t able to facilitate critical discussions including alternative economic perspectives in tutorials because their economics education has lacked those elements.<br />
<br />
This monoculture also makes it easier for professors to believe that their way is the only way to do economics or at least that it is the only valid way which in turn justifies its status as the only kind of economics taught at our university. Many of our lecturers sincerely believe that the economic paradigm their methods represent is the only legitimate way of<br />
<hr />
25<br />
doing economics. The academic costs of these beliefs are high. There is a culture of active hostility towards professors who don’t follow the dominant desirable research agenda. One recently retired professor from Manchester reported to us how he was told by another member of staff that he would be left to “wither on the branch”. Another professor described the process he had been through elsewhere in another university economics department as an “ethnic cleansing”. The recruits which replace them are young and orthodox products of a PhD system dominated by orthodoxy economics. This has created a diaspora as non-mainstream economists at Manchester have been stripped of their titles as economists and pushed out to peripheral positions in development studies and such-like while various kinds of heterodox political economy have taken root in the business school, politics, geography and history departments.<br />
<br />
This process is supported by the technicalisation of mainstream economics. In the mainstream of economics, quantitative methods and algebraic formalisation have supreme status whilst qualitative approaches are deemed inferior. This makes it easier to identify and isolate those economists whose research programmes do not follow the prescribed technical approach and to argue that political economists in the business school or geography are not doing economics. A move to separate normative and positive economics has been pushed to its logical conclusion with normative economics disappearing and the discipline claiming it is ‘value-free’ and ‘neutral’. It is also the process that has allowed economics to cut itself off from communication with other social sciences such as political science or sociology while claiming superiority over them.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 4: Responding to arguments against change</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">We already teach Marx and Keynes, both of whom provide different ways of doing economics</span></h3>
Our critics have attempted to caricature our society as demanding “more Keynes and Marx”. However, our argument is far broader: we are calling for an evidence based, pluralistic economics education. We can use the treatment of Marx and Keynes in<br />
<hr />
26<br />
the syllabus to demonstrate that the way that thinkers are taught is just as important as their presence.<br />
Marx is the subject of a presentation done in first year by BEconSci students though each student is assigned a different economist so only one group will actually study Marx. He is also present on the history of thought course. The key point is that any reference to Marx is compartmentalised from the economic theory proper and his contribution is judged to be historical and now superseded (he is given some time in developmental economics modules though these are the exception).<br />
<br />
We argue that it would be far more valuable to use Marx’s theories of crisis, exploitation, class struggle and the reserve army of unemployed as a lens through which to understand business cycles, income distribution and the labour market. For example, pedagogically useful comparisons can be made between Marx’s argument that Capitalism needs a certain level of unemployment to operate and the Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment (NAIRU) which suggests something similar but takes a very different normative perspective.<br />
<br />
Teaching of Keynes in mainstream economics is not really Keynes. It’s John Hicks, who developed IS/LM independently in debates with Dennis Robertson and other economists during the 1920s, well before the general theory was published (Tily, 2010). The ‘Old-Keynesian’ Phillips Curve also had nothing to do with Keynes, who emphasised the role of expectations in his work. Students at Manchester are not exposed to Keynes’ theories first hand and are definitely not exposed to modern post-Keynesianism, which has developed and built on Keynes’ framework substantially.<br />
<br />
Some would argue that poring over old texts is not the proper way to do a social science, and we agree to an extent. We only wish that particular thinkers’ theories be taught insofar as they are relevant, and we think that these theories should be presented in their historical context where possible. Given that the field of<br />
<hr />
27<br />
economics clearly hasn’t found all the answers someone like Keynes can clearly contribute to that search. It may be wise to teach thinkers from original texts if one wants to access their ideas rather than relying on watered-down impressions.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">There is no such thing as neoclassical economics; there is simply the science of economics and everything else is either bad economics or a different discipline </span></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
This criticism stems from the conflation of the neoclassical economic paradigm, as it exists at this point in time, with economics as a discipline. Heterodox economics may be bad neoclassical economics – by definition, it employs different assumptions, methodology, and definitions. However, it is not necessarily bad economics. Even if neoclassical economics is better, it must still be challenged in economics education by other theories. Academic progress often comes from upturning existing accepted wisdom and norms. If neoclassical economics is conflated with economic truth then this leaves little room for falsification and debate.</div>
<br />
Economics cannot be a science in the normal sense of the word, as it deals with people. This means that (a) repeated experiments are not possible; (b) the object under study will interact with the observer; (c) conscious actions – whether of policymakers or economic agents themselves - are involved, and these actions will affect the action of others, making moral questions inescapable.<br />
<br />
The fact that mainstream economists wish to define their approach as the approach does not make it so. In fact, neoclassical economics can be easily identified not as a ‘scientific’ enterprise (which, on its own terms, would entail far more focus on falsification) but as a particular methodological approach. Numerous attempts have been made to do this (Arnsperger & Varoufakis, 2006; Lawson, 2013). The basic framework boils down to individual agents making choices under conditions of scarcity, interacting through markets to produce an equilibrium outcome. There is a degree of disagreement over this definition, and it is doubtful that any concise set of properties could hope to define every single theory taught, endorsed or researched<br />
<hr />
28<br />
by mainstream economists, but the overwhelming majority of theories do seem to fit this definition.<br />
There are however, alternative approaches. Indeed, we have been running a lecture series on heterodox economics, having already covered institutional, ecological, Austrian, feminist and post-Keynesian economics. These perspectives represent alternatives to neoclassical economics rather than deviations from or exceptions to it. They proceed from a different level of analysis than individual agents and/or emphasise different phenomena than preferences as crucial for understanding economic processes.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Economists are very critical and we teach students to be critical</span></h3>
There are indeed debates in mainstream economics which involve criticism, but these are limited, largely relate to policy and never disrupt the ‘neoclassical’ or marginalist framework outlined above. The philosopher of science, Imre Lakatos, discusses how scientific communities attempt to reproduce themselves: by allowing dispute at the periphery of the paradigm while attempting to protect the core of the paradigm from challenge (Keen, 2011, pp.406-7). A University of Manchester lecturer demonstrates this in his ‘open letter’ to our society, first stating that “there is a lot of disagreement among economists about pretty much everything”, then going on to acknowledge that “economists do generally agree on some things.”<br />
At the moment these “things” which include methodology, assumptions and the objectives of economics are implicit and unquestioned in economics degrees and the wider discipline. We argue that the economics students should be taught about the core of the neoclassical paradigm in a critical environment and that they should also be taught a number of alternative approaches.<br />
<hr />
29<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">There is a toolkit that you need to learn and there isn’t space to do other things.</span></h3>
We understand that when you study a subject at degree level, you should be required to explore it in depth. However, we believe that instead of every student simply gaining a thorough and in-depth understanding of abstract macro and micro theory, they should all be given a good, empirically oriented grounding in various economic theories, and then have the option to pursue, in depth, the area of economics they choose. The vast majority of undergraduates are not going to go onto higher studies and so tailoring the degree towards the most abstract theory is illogical. Instead, the rigorous formal development of micro and macro theory can be confined to optional modules for those who wish to pursue higher education further.<br />
<br />
On top of this, economics degrees actually contain a surprising amount of unnecessary material. There is repetition across the modules: there is a lot of crossover between microeconomics and business economics – for example, game theory models of oligopoly are covered in similar ways in business economics IIA, mathematical economics I and business economics II. UK Microeconomics as a whole is very similar to business economics IIB, something pointed out by one of our tutors. Micro IIA, IIB and III cover a lot of the same ground with respect to utility theory.<br />
<br />
Further, in the words of academic economist Michael Joffe, economists teach <i>“theories now known to be untrue”</i> (Joffe, 2011). These include: the U-shaped cost curve (and marginalist pricing in general), expected utility theory, Real Business Cycle explanations of recessions. In our experience, lecturers often note in passing - or if questioned - that these theories are not particularly illuminating, yet they remain on the curriculum.<br />
<hr />
30<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">You get to criticise economic theory at a post-graduate level. It is too complicated to cover at undergraduate level</span></h3>
This is completely unacceptable. Many economics student never go on to post-graduate level and can leave university believing that the economic theory represents uncontested truth. If economic theory is too complicated for undergraduates this has disturbing consequences for the public who must accept economic policy because it is too complicated to criticise. However, we deny that this has to be the case.<br />
Our economics education is restricted by its use of the neoclassical framework as the only starting point. Neoclassical models are built from a highly abstract, reductionist perspective and the maths gets very complicated very quickly once major assumptions are dropped. Alternative approaches include modelling aggregate variables and flows between sectors, or class (bargaining power) models of income distribution, or basic cost-plus rules for pricing. These approaches can be used to address perceived inadequacies without making things overly complicated.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Economics is more popular than ever and the salary and employment prospects of our graduates are consistently high. This shows that we are teaching the right content in the right way</span></h3>
Looking through the UCAS applications for economics degrees, a couple of things stand out. First, there is a sharp jump from 2006 to 2007, possibly because books like Freakonomics and The Undercover Economist became popular. Second, the number is roughly stationary until 2009, where there is another sharp jump, possibly attributable to the crisis. Both of these facts suggest there is a strong interest in economics as a field, but this says nothing about the popularity of the substantive content of economics degrees. In fact, we believe that for a substantial number of students there is a large gap between their expectations of economics and the reality of their degrees. This is evidenced by the popularity of our society and the growth of similar student societies across the country. We believe there is a silent<br />
<hr />
31<br />
majority whose expectations aren’t met but who are just told ‘this is what economics is’. These students just have to get on with doing it because they have no obvious alternative. For students making university choices there is highly imperfect information on content as most prospective students won’t understand technical course guides and the top universities all provide a nearly identical product in the shape of their economics degrees. There is little real choice or information upon which to make a choice and a lack of competition as a result. To compound matters students cannot just return their products if they don’t like it as the costs of this decision are huge in terms of fees and housing costs foregone. As a result high applications to do economics cannot be used to demonstrate that students are happy with economics courses.<br />
Likewise, relatively high employment and salary rates cannot be used to demonstrate that employers are happy with economics students and that economics degrees adequately prepare students for work. A report commissioned by the Bank of England demonstrated that a majority of employers were concerned about economics graduates ability to communicate economic ideas to a non-specialist audience among other things (Pomorina, 2012). Economics must train students to develop this skill along with others such as critical judgement and problem solving because without these, economics is just a significantly worse engineering, maths or physics degree. In difficult economic times for all graduates and rising fees for students, it isn’t good enough to claim that enough is being done to prepare graduates or the working world when our analysis, along with that of the Bank of England’s, shows that there are significant areas for improvement.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">We try to talk about applying theory to economic phenomena but students just aren’t interested. They just ask whether it is on the exam or not.</span></h3>
This highlights why any change needs to be fundamental and structural, not just tacked on to the end of courses or as a couple of optional third year modules. If students have the majority of their degree evaluated by multiple choice questions<br />
<hr />
32<br />
and quantitative exams, where there is a good possibility of getting a high first, they will shy away from writing essays or reports, where it is more difficult to get a higher mark and where the skills they need to achieve these marks are conspicuously underdeveloped. If a good proportion of the course is necessarily essays, reports and presentations, and if a dissertation is mandatory, everybody is in the same boat and it saves a race to the bottom.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Your problem is with macroeconomics; most of us aren’t even macro-economists</span></h3>
As our name implies, we believe the 2008 financial crisis represents a major failure of macroeconomics. However, this doesn’t mean our criticisms are limited to macroeconomics. For one, it can be argued that many of macroeconomics’ problems stem from its ‘microfoundations’, which rely on problematic micro-economic concepts such as utility, capital, market clearing and so forth (Keen, 2011). Second, there is the problem that microeconomics and macroeconomics are intrinsically linked, and not just in the direction of the former to the latter: for example, since people demonstrate higher risk aversion in recessions than in booms, can we talk about their utility functions without discussing the macroeconomic environment in which they are operating? Third, regardless of the crash, there has been vigorous debate about microeconomics as well as macroeconomics for some time and it is important that students understand the areas of contestation and have the tools to be able to evaluate competing micro-economic theories.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 5: The compelling case for reform</span></h3>
So far we have set out that there is an urgent and vital need to address problems with economics education at Manchester. In this section, we will attempt to demonstrate that this responsibility falls on the University of Manchester as a whole and not just the Economics Department. We strongly believe that this is an issue which the University must<br />
<hr />
33<br />
address seriously and robustly. The current state of affairs represents a stain on its reputation and will cause the University long-term reputational and academic damage if it isn’t remedied.<br />
Crucially, the University’s current plan for improvement in the future does not address these problems. It has prioritised research in its 2020 strategy in the belief that improvements in research improve undergraduate degree standards and teaching quality. The University’s strategic aim to achieve an ‘outstanding learning and student experience’, is often framed in terms of making research more central to teaching i.e. to ‘promote research-informed teaching by embedding research in teaching’ (University of Manchester, 2011, pp12-13). However, in the case of economics we have argued that the University’s research driven focus has been hugely detrimental to teaching standards and to the quality of economics education as a whole. Therefore, Manchester must develop and implement an alternative strategy to improve the quality of economics education. Conversely, if Manchester can improve economics education it can become one of the most desirable places to study undergraduate economics in Britain. The University has an obligation to change but this responsibility also presents a massive opportunity. Curriculum reform at Manchester can make a real difference to the future of economics and contribute to knowledge which can aid human progress.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Teaching Standards</span></h3>
The University of Manchester has set out what it believes the purposes of an undergraduate education are in the Manchester Matrix. This document sets out standards for what students should be taught and what skills and qualities they should have when they graduate. We argue that economics at Manchester falls a long way short of many of these standards and that the University has a pressing responsibility to take action to ensure that it does meet these standards as quickly as possible.<br />
<hr />
34<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">The Purposes of a Manchester Education Graduate Attributes Assessment Criteria How economics education falls short</span></h3>
</blockquote>
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>To develop critical thinking and higher order conceptual reasoning and analytical skills<br />
Manchester graduates will have been encouraged to develop their intellectual curiosity, will have learned how to learn, will have a clear grasp of the fundamental differences between fact and opinion, truth and falsity, validity and invalidity, and will have acquired the basic intellectual tools of logical analysis and critical enquiry.<br />
Logical reasoning<br />
Analysis<br />
Synthesis<br />
Evaluation<br />
Students are penalised for considering variety and rewarded for reproducing existing thought by rote, since overwhelming weight in teaching and examination is given to demonstrating the ability to reproduce a prescribed, allegedly homogeneous theory. This approach devalues “intellectual curiosity” and “critical thinking”, it fails to give students the tools to distinguish between good and bad theory.</li>
<li>To promote mastery of a discipline<br />
Manchester graduates will have mastered the epistemological, methodological and essential knowledge base of at least one discipline or taught in the University, acquiring a basic understanding of the processes of enquiry and research through which existing paradigms are evaluated and new knowledge created in that discipline or disciplines<br />
Knowledge<br />
Epistemology<br />
Methodology<br />
Comprehension<br />
Application<br />
The neoclassical analytical and conceptual framework is elevated to the object of study of economics and other branches of economics are defined out of the discipline. This necessarily prevents mastery of economics as a whole. Likewise, the presentation of the neoclassical paradigm without alternatives precludes sound evaluation of its strength and weaknesses. The methodological and epistemological “processes of inquiry” are undervalued and as a result students don’t have the tools to evaluate the neoclassical paradigm or create “new knowledge”. The absence of focus on developing skills such as judgement prevents students knowing when economic theory can be applied to economic phenomena.</li>
<li>To broaden intellectual and cultural interests<br />
Manchester graduates will be encouraged to value knowledge for its own sake, and to appreciate virtuosity and creativity, whether in art, music, science, literature or any other medium through which human discourse and human culture are advanced and enriched.<br />
Intellectual curiosity<br />
Cultural awareness<br />
Understanding of the historical development and cultural context of particular traditions, disciplines or bodies of knowledge<br />
The lack of real world application and economic history combine to make economic theory seem abstract, universal and rootless. As a result students have very little knowledge of the “historical development” of economics. Similarly the disconnection of economics from a broader analysis of society through institutional and sociological lenses prevents any real knowledge of “cultural context”. Promoting “intellectual curiosity” isn’t a central part of the syllabus, teaching methods or examinations.</li>
</ol>
<hr />
35<br />
<div style="margin-left: 2em; text-align: left;">
4. To prepare graduates for professional and vocational work</div>
<ul>
<li>Manchester graduates in professional disciplines will have the knowledge and advanced technical skills demanded in an increasingly sophisticated and rapidly changing professional workplace, and will have been provided with opportunities to develop accompanying skills of initiative, teamwork and professional communication.</li>
<li>Professional knowledge</li>
<li>Professional Skills</li>
<li>Professional Qualities</li>
<li>Communication and Team work</li>
<li>The overwhelming dominance of multiple choice and short answer questions means that students are not taught to develop strong written or oral communication skills. The lack of option to do a dissertation highlights a failure to give students the opportunity to develop research skills and independent thinking. The high level of abstraction means that many graduates have not had any experience analysing economic phenomena directly or communicating economic ideas to a non-specialist audience.</li>
<li>5. To challenge and equip students to confront personal values and make ethical judgements</li>
<li>Manchester graduates will have been provided with opportunities to develop personal qualities of independence of mind and to take responsibility for the values, norms, assumptions and beliefs that guide their behaviour as individuals and citizens.</li>
<li>Ethical awareness</li>
<li>Grasp of ethical principles</li>
<li>Awareness of relevant professional ethics</li>
<li>There is a distinct lack of focus on both the ethics of being an economist and the ethical consequences of economic theory. Furthermore, the values and norms economic theory is based upon are implicit because it attempts to present itself as scientific and value free. As a result students are taught not to question “values, norms, assumptions and beliefs” which fails to equip them “to confront personal values and make ethical judgements”.</li>
<li>6. To prepare graduates for citizenship and leadership</li>
<li>in diverse, global environments</li>
<li>Manchester graduates will have been encouraged and enabled to confront their own civic values and responsibilities as local, regional and global citizens.</li>
<li>Awareness of social, political and environmental issues</li>
<li>Sense of social responsibility</li>
<li>Leadership skills</li>
<li>We argue that previous purposes of a Manchester Education 1-5 are necessary preconditions of being prepared for “citizenship and leadership” and that as a result of economics education fails to deliver on this aim. “Social” and “political” issues are divorced from economics proper and are removed to optional modules in other disciplines which pure economics students are encouraged not to take as they are seen as less valuable. There is a lack of opportunity to analyse philosophically concepts such as value, growth and efficiency and as a result students do not have tools to critically interrogate the “environmental” consequences concepts like growth may have.</li>
<li style="list-style: none;"><br />
<hr />
36<br />
7. To develop advanced skills of written and verbal communication<br />
Manchester graduates will be equipped with advanced skills of written and verbal communication.<br />
Ability to communicate verbally and in writing lucidly, accurately, relevantly, succinctly and engagingly<br />
The overwhelming focus on multiple choice and short answer forms of examination and the lack of option to do a dissertation highlights a lack of value placed on developing economics students with ”advanced skills of written and verbal communication”. Furthermore the disconnection between economic theory and real world analysis and application prevents students developing a strong ability to communicate economic ideas.<br />
8. To promote equality and diversity.<br />
Manchester graduates will have been educated in an environment that embraces and values cultural diversity, and that is fundamentally committed to equality of opportunity regardless of gender, race, disability, religious or other beliefs, sexual orientation or age.<br />
<br />
A key consideration informing the design, development, delivery and assessment of all Manchester curricula<br />
The narrowness and closed nature of the Economics Department and syllabus precludes the establishment of “an environment that embraces and values cultural diversity”. Opportunity is not equal when it comes to deciding which academics to hire and which graduates to offer PhDs to, but is instead based on conformity to the neoclassical paradigm we have described.<br />
Figure 11<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Academic Integrity</span></h3>
The University of Manchester has a responsibility to ensure that the academic environment within the Economics Department is open and representative of the diversity of economics. It is not academically justifiable to have a department monopolised by academics largely representing one economic paradigm. This disciplinary homogeneity has many negative side effects. As mentioned the environment becomes hostile to those academics whose research agendas do not fit the dominant paradigm. Sometimes this is explicit but at other times it is more implicit and structural in the form of non-mainstream PhD students not being offered jobs or retiring professors not being replaced on a like-for-like basis. In this way homogeneity reinforces itself by driving out elements which do not fit.<br />
<br />
As we have explained these processes are driven by the REF and the status ranking of American neoclassical journals. It also encourages complacency and arrogance among<br />
<br />
1 Adapted version of the Manchester Matrix available at: <a href="http://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=9804">http://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=9804</a><br />
<hr />
37<br />
economists who are surrounded by those who work within a similar economic paradigm and employ similar assumptions and methodology. As we have shown in this situation academics can disagree and debate peripheral issues but all agree on the hard core of their discipline and are subsequently lulled into believing that the hard core is indisputably the only scientific way to do economics. We argue that the University must take positive steps to broaden the representation of economic paradigms within the Department because this is a precondition for many of the higher order, critical teaching aims the University sets itself. Until there is more diversity in the Department it won’t be able to expose students to deep critical discussion and comparison of alternative and competing economic theory (Matrix purpose 1). Furthermore, economics education will certainly not be able to promote the full mastery of a discipline (Matrix purpose 2).<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Social Responsibility</span></h3>
Economics is a public good. Our societies rely on economists to help manage our economies in the way we rely on engineers to build bridges and plumbers to fix boilers. Thousands of economics students each year graduate and fill positions in think tanks, policy circles, businesses, media organisations and vital economic institutions like the Bank of England, the Government Economic Service and HM Treasury.<br />
<br />
A situation in which the vast majority of professional economists, economic commentators, politicians and academics have studied only one dominant economic paradigm is unacceptable as we struggle to manage economic crisis and achieve sustainable prosperity. As a result our society has no organised ability to critically question the foundations, assumptions and practises of the economic status quo. We find ourselves in a situation in which government, business, media, monetary institutions and academia are united in propagating a particular economic worldview which is all too often assumed to be natural or universal.<br />
This monoculture in public and academic economics is particularly damaging because economics is a technical area which requires experts to mediate and disseminate economic analysis to the wider public. Thus, these ‘experts’ have huge influence over the public<br />
<hr />
38<br />
narrative around the economy. National perceptions about the health of the economy are of central importance to society and political discourse.<br />
<br />
Five years after the onset of Financial Crash in 2008, which signified a systemic crisis for mainstream economics, the public and academic debate has been marked by a distinct lack of economic alternatives or even alternative economic explanations. This crisis had an enormous effect on the lives of everyone in Britain and the world and it just illustrates the centrality of the economy to public life and national wealth. Other economic paradigms have a lot to offer neoclassical economics particularly in regard to understanding times of crisis (Minsky’s financial instability hypothesis being the most obvious example). The University of Manchester has a social responsibility to ensure that future generations of economists can provide a better service to society. A discipline with a broader knowledge of alternative and competing economic theories will be more internally self-critical and more aware of the limits of its knowledge. It will thus be better able to manage the economy on behalf of the public. Economists must in an important way be servants of the public interest (Matrix purpose 6). This also returns to our earlier argument about the need for economics education to cover the ethics of being an economist and the ethical consequences of economic theory.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Major employers want graduates with skills and competencies economics education doesn’t currently provide</span></h3>
The Government Economic Service’s Deputy Director, Andy Ross, recently elaborated on the qualities he looks for. He backs up our call for greater critical thinking within economics, because it “produces better economists”. He advises applicants to the GES to stay away from “dogged adherence to… a set of axiomatic rules for theoretic consistency”. Yet the neoclassical paradigm within which university economics is taught does just that.<br />
<br />
Ross also looks for candidates that are “intellectually pluralistic”. He argues that economics is “improved” when exposed to other disciplines, such as “politics and international relations”.<br />
<br />
2 Available at <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/civil-service-government-economic-service">https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/civil-service-government-economic-service</a><br />
<hr />
39<br />
The call for skills beyond those developed on a current economics degree is echoed by the ‘big four’ accountancy firms. Deloitte look for the ability to be “clear, expressive and concise”. Yet the minimal writing demands in an economics degree today means that graduates have little experience of this.<br />
<br />
The ability to solve practical problems is another competency required repeatedly by the firms. KPMG look for “strong problem-solvers” who are “happy to adapt”. An economics degree certainly demands problem solving, but problems of a highly abstract, theoretical nature: not what these firms look for. This focus on practicality is reinforced by their calls for knowledge of current economic issues with PWC looking for those with an “understanding of current business issues”. However, the lack of real-world focus on an economics degree mean this will be a rare quality amongst economics graduates.<br />
<br />
Finally, Ernst and Young look for those that recognise “the value of different…points of view” and that by “respecting these differences we enrich our perspectives”. The way mainstream economics is taught today could be said to do quite the opposite. From these remarks it’s clear that reforming economics education would benefit employers. There’s a sad irony in the fact that economics degrees fail to serve or support the economy. Beyond business, economics graduates’ job prospects would be bolstered further, as would the University of Manchester’s standing as its alumni fill positions in respected institutions such as the GES and the UK’s most respected accountancy firms.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Student Demand/Student offer</span></h3>
We set up a petition to highlight the level of student support for our Bubbles, Panics and Crashes module being put on next year and 245 economics students at Manchester signed it in under 3 weeks. This builds on the first petition we created when we set up in 2013 which outlines what is wrong with economics education and what we want to see changed.<br />
<br />
It received 492 signatures of which 144 have identified themselves as BA or BeconSci students at Manchester and another 82 signatories study economics as part of a joint honours. The signatures on our petition show that there is significant demand for economics<br />
<hr />
40<br />
education reform along the principles we outline and that the University of Manchester has the responsibility to take this demand very seriously.<br />
<br />
Another factor that illustrates the demand for economics education reform is the large attendance at our society’s events. At our first event we estimate 160 people attended and at our first lecture in our lecture series this term entitled ‘What you won’t learn in an economics degree’ over 350 people attended. Our subsequent ‘What you won’t learn’ lectures have attracted 60-90 students and our ‘Bubbles, Panics and Crashes’ module held every other week attracts about 60 students. Considering that these academic economics lectures are voluntary and not for credit, often running until 7pm or 8pm on a week night, it is quite extraordinary to have received such a high turn-out for such a high volume of events and it convincingly demonstrates a real desire among students for a broader more critical economics syllabus.<br />
<br />
As we have mentioned previously applications for places to study economics have increased steadily since 2006. It is undoubtedly the case that a significant factor in influencing this growth has been the prominence of economic events in the news since the financial crisis in 2008. There is a real desire among students to learn about the British and international economies and understand more about how they operate in the real world and much of this focuses around the global recession. It is shocking that the only economics module to cover different theories of economic crisis alongside an analysis of real world data is the optional ‘Bubbles, Panics and Crashes’ module that we run and it is little surprise that it has proved so popular. Many students are embarrassed because they cannot use their economics education to explain the causes and consequences of the Financial Crisis to their friends and family. There is a real student demand for these concerns to be addressed.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Change can be positive for the University</span></h3>
The last powerful argument for reforming economics education is that it can be a hugely positive process for the Economics Department and the University of Manchester if it is embraced and publicised.<br />
<hr />
41<br />
We have argued that while there is a growing demand for economics undergraduate education, the quality of supply is failing to meet student expectations. This is reflected in the emergence of the Post-Crash Economics Society at Manchester and similar societies at Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Essex and the many students who have got in touch with us keen to set up their own societies.<br />
<br />
The University of Manchester was home to the Industrial Revolution and the Marginalist Revolution in economics. It is a city of innovation and open thinking. Substantial reform of economics education at Manchester would receive international news coverage and could be used to illustrate that aspect of the University and city brand. Likewise the recent University advertising campaign that centred round individuals making a difference is a template for how economics education reform can be positive. A key message to communicate would be that The University of Manchester is a world leader in improving economics education after the Financial Crisis and through its core academic values is preparing tomorrow’s economists to be able to confront the challenges of the future.<br />
<br />
The Economics Department would also improve as a result of reform as argued in the section on academic responsibility above. The economists in the Department would have a more interesting, pluralist environment to work in because they would be working alongside economists who employed fundamentally different assumptions and methodologies. Likewise it is probable that the cross-fertilisation of these ideas would produce better academic work from both mainstream and non-mainstream economists alike.<br />
<br />
Finally reforms would improve the student experience and skills of economics undergraduates at Manchester. These arguments don’t need repeating here. We sincerely believe that the arguments we are making in favour of reform can be used to benefit the whole University and cement its reputation as a world leader.<br />
<hr />
42<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 6: Real constraints to change at Manchester</span></h3>
We understand that lone universities and lecturers face significant institutional, economic and cultural constraints. How can you change the syllabus if that means undergraduates won’t have a chance of studying further at Oxbridge? How can you make the degree less quantitative if that means students will have less chance of getting a job in the City of London? How can you make any changes if regulations or funding considerations prevent you from doing so? While we can see there are real and significant constraints to change they are not insurmountable. The University has a pressing responsibility to support the Economics Department in taking steps to remove or sidestep these constraints to reform.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Research Excellence Framework</span></h3>
There is a widespread assumption that better research ratings equals better quality of the<br />
undergraduate degree offered because students will be taught by academics who are at the cutting edge of their field. In the case of economics at Manchester the pursuit of higher research ratings for prestige and funding has exacerbated the problems of economics education. The University must develop an alternative economics strategy which allows the Economics Department to continue to pursue good REF scores while hiring some top quality non-mainstream academics. One method is to set out a number of non-mainstream posts within the Economics Department that must be filled by academics who are able to fulfil a broader range of teaching roles including non-mainstream economic theory and history of economic thought. These academics could then be entered into the REF panels for different disciplines so that they were still valuable to the University’s overall ranking. However, as we have illustrated above, individuals within the Department sometimes see their approach to economics as the only legitimate one and consequently would not hire a non-mainstream economist given the choice. Because of this we feel it is important that the creation of criteria for hiring new staff is not left solely to the Department. This is vital if Manchester is to ensure that academics who don’t follow the dominant research paradigm are not to be discriminated against.<br />
<hr />
43<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Lack of Resources</span></h3>
We are told that part of the problem is resources and that the fees from economics students are used to subsidise other courses at the University. However, we haven’t been given access to the financial records of the Economics Department and School of Social Sciences and so we cannot judge to what extent a lack of resources is a constraint on curriculum choices and teaching style. We are told that funding pressures are partly responsible for large classes, multiple choice exams and the lack of option to do a dissertation. If this is the case then the University has an obligation to ensure that the Economic Department has enough resources to address the concerns we are raising. It is not acceptable to continue using the economics courses at Manchester as a cash cow to fund other courses and building projects until substantial improvements to economics education have been made, particularly when economics students are now paying £9,000 a year.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Making sure that graduates have the opportunity to do masters at the top universities</span></h3>
We believe that the more abstract theoretical and mathematical modules should still be available, but would be optional courses for those truly interested in pursuing economic theory. Perhaps then, it would even be possible to make them harder and hence prepare future academics for difficult post-graduate courses. As an undergraduate going on to work in the City or in the GES is it really necessary to know the axiomatic foundations of consumer and producer theory to understand demand-supply? The University certainly doesn’t do this for econometrics, skipping over the theory for undergraduate purposes, and it seems to work well. Instead students should be given an empirically oriented grounding in various economic theories, and then have the option to pursue, in depth, the area of economics they choose.<br />
<br />
Tailoring the degree towards the most abstract theory does not make sense as the vast majority of undergraduates are not going to go on to become academic economists. Instead, the rigorous basics of micro and macro theory can be confined to optional modules for those who wish to pursue higher education further; in fact, this would possibly serve as<br />
<hr />
44<br />
an opportunity to make them more rigorous and hence better prepare students who intend to pursue a graduate education at top institutions like Oxbridge.<br />
<br />
However, this cannot be an excuse to cut off an elite group who will go on to become academic economists from the rest who have a broader but, as some of our lecturers argue, a less rigorous and inferior economics education. We believe that the University’s flagship economics course needs more of a focus on the politics and ethics of economic theory as much as, if not more than, everyone else because its students will be the guardians of economic progress in the future. It is irresponsible to teach this group one approach to economics as if it is was the only one. Whatever path economics students take it is essential that they are exposed to critical and pluralistic economics because of the benefits this has to both their own education and to the future of the discipline.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Lack of broad expertise in the Department</span></h3>
As we have highlighted there is now a monoculture in the Economics Department at Manchester meaning that the Department will find it difficult to reform in the way we are asking. It also means that our economics education becomes steadily narrower over time. This year the Business Economics 2 module changed lecturer and the content which covered alternative theories of the firm and competition was relegated to the optional reading by the new lecturer. What broadness of approach, real world application and critical slant there is in economics education at Manchester is related to individual lecturers rather the Department policy. When these individual lecturers leave or are on sick leave, as in the case of History of Economic Thought and Business Economics 2, the content is often revised to fit more closely with the rest of the modules or the module is just scrapped. This is why we have highlighted the importance of ensuring that non-mainstream professors are hired by the Department who have teaching capabilities that no one else in the Department has.<br />
<hr />
45<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Section 7: Principles of a Post-Crash economics education and some practical reforms</span></h3>
<i>“The master-economist must possess a rare combination of gifts.... He must be mathematician, historian, statesman, philosopher -- in some degree. He must understand symbols and speak in words. He must contemplate the particular, in terms of the general, and touch abstract and concrete in the same flight of thought. He must study the present in the light of the past for the purposes of the future. No part of man's nature or his institutions must be entirely outside his regard. He must be purposeful and disinterested in a simultaneous mood, as aloof and incorruptible as an artist, yet sometimes as near to earth as a politician.” J.M. Keynes</i><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Principles of reform</span></h3>
At the moment there is a monopoly on what is and isn’t economics and within that, what is good and bad economics. This isn’t justifiable and is damaging for the many reasons we have outlined. The burden of proof is now on our professors to justify the neoclassical monopoly on economics education or to accept that it should once again be opened to competition and debate. Contestation and fundamental disagreement should not be organised out of the discipline as it is a vital part of academic practise and progress. It is also a vital part of undergraduate education.<br />
<br />
While we believe that economics should be more open it also shouldn’t be that anything goes. This raises the question of what standards should be used to distinguish good economics from bad and thus to decide what economic theory is taught. This is of course a tension that is a part of any discipline.<br />
<br />
Students must always be exposed to more than one economic paradigm. This is because in economics, as in other social sciences, theory plays a performative part in influencing reality. If the vast majority of economics students believe that neoclassical economics is all that there is to economics then in a sense that becomes true and possible alternatives are closed off. Any dominant school of thought in economics needs to be constantly scrutinised<br />
<hr />
46<br />
to ensure that it retains its predictive and explanatory power and the only way to do this effectively is by holding it up against other schools of thought which dispute the fundamentals it is built upon. Milton Friedman argued that “there is no such thing as different schools of economics; there is only good economics and bad economics” This is a clever tactic for organising out schools of thought that do not fit with your definitions of reality, assumptions, methods and objectives and the result is a bad academy. Learning about many schools of thought side by side and in conversation with each other is the only way economics students can reach what is currently below the surface. A critical comparative approach gives students the opportunity to think about how well theories can explain and predict external economic phenomena, what values they are based on, whether they can justify their assumptions and how they differ in core definitions of things like the purpose of economics, markets, states and agents.<br />
<br />
We would like to see an economics education which begins with the study of economic problems. In this approach the economic phenomena are outlined and the student is given a toolkit and must evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of how different theories explain different phenomena.<br />
<br />
A core objective should be to introduce disciplined eclecticism which is the principle that different models and theories can be applied or are most useful in different situations. A substantial level of pluralism in economics education, defined as a consideration of a variety of theories before forming judgements, is a necessary condition for disciplined eclecticism. On this view economic theory is not universally applicable and much depends much on institutional, historical and social contexts.<br />
<br />
There are a number of ways that the University of Manchester can embed pluralism as a key principle of economics education as outlined by the Economics Network (Mearman 2007, pp.7-27). One option is to introduce alternative economic paradigms into current modules or to add modules which focus on an alternative schools of thought such as post-Keynesianism. Another option is to develop competing perspectives modules which cover various economic phenomena (such as inflation and unemployment) and explores how<br />
<hr />
47<br />
different paradigms seek to explain them. These approaches all have varying merits and deficiencies including how easy they are to implement. Economics reform at Manchester will involve experimenting with possible solutions and working closely with student input.<br />
<br />
Another crucial part of this toolkit is knowledge of institutional power structures and politics. Economic analysis must take into account power and politics or it risks, as Ronald Coase famously argued; only being fit to model “individuals exchanging nuts for berries on the edge of the forest”.<br />
<br />
Both the ethics of being an economist and a consideration of the ethical consequences of economic theory are vital part of the Post-Crash economist’s toolkit. Economists work closely with the powerful, but yet must also be public servants and this creates potential conflicts of interest. Economists have huge influence in society and in shaping political discourse and with that influence come significant ethical questions. For example what happens when the market-clearing wage is below subsistence level? Does anybody have a responsibility to prevent this happening and if so who? These ethical questions are a fundamental and intrinsic part of economic theory and should be woven into the fabric of core modules not marginalised in non-economic optional modules.<br />
<br />
The philosophy of economics ought to be a central part of core economics modules. Key economic concepts such as value, efficiency, growth and the economic man must be discussed beyond just cursory definitions. It is also vital that students are taught about key theories in the philosophy of social sciences such as those of Popper, Kuhn and Friedman. Which assumptions are justified in a scientific theory and how rigorous must the ability to falsify a theory be? What are the virtues and flaws of different methodologies and how can we choose a suitable approach to fit our needs?<br />
<br />
History of economic thought and economic history are essential for students to be able to evaluate the quality of economic theory. To understand the historical development of a particular model or economic paradigm provides an invaluable insight into the problems it was designed to solve and how context influenced its formation. This is a vital<br />
<hr />
48<br />
counterweight to the hubristic belief that economic theory can represent universal truth and the refusal to recognise the limits to our knowledge. Economic history is vital for all economics students because history offers many important lessons for the discipline. For example, an analysis of historic crashes from the Tulip mania to The Great Depressions gives the modern economist the context in which to understand our present economic systems.<br />
<br />
All of the elements above are required for students to be able to be critical and aware of the limitations of the discipline. Critical theory requires that the practitioner examines and lays bare the presuppositions of a theory and to do this it must evaluate the choice of assumptions, methodology and wider contexts both historical and present. If the modernist enlightenment impulse is to try to know everything, or to know with certainty, economics must be a bit more humble and recognise the complexity and uncertainty in economic systems and human behaviour.<br />
<br />
Economics degrees are currently designed for the tiny fraction of students who go on to become academic economists not the vast majority who go on to professional work. Thus undergraduate degrees attempt to provide the toolkit students need to be an academic economist working within a neoclassical paradigm. We think economics education should be far more grounded in the practical reality of our economy and economic life. Can an economics graduate read and engage with Financial Times articles? Can they read the national accounts? Do they know what data the ONS releases on the economy? Can they interpret and analyse that data? Can they use their economics knowledge to analyse economic events in the news? These are the questions we should be asking.<br />
<br />
There is a self-filtering mechanism that leads students towards picking optional modules that complement and reflect pedagogic norms set in the core micro and macro modules. After the first year Macro and Micro modules which are quantitative and multiple choice, students then choose modules in later years which reflect that content matter and style of examination. Thus ‘History of Economic Thought’ and ‘Property and Justice’ are chosen by very few students. This is compounded by the fact that you can only get 70-80% in essays and you can get up to 100% in quantitative exams. This could give the impression that<br />
<hr />
49<br />
quantitative and multiple choice modules are intrinsically more popular and encourage their growth. For this reason substantial changes need to be implemented from the start of the degree so that critical and communication skills can be developed from the outset. It is important that changes are not confined to optional modules in later years but are woven into the core modules throughout the degree. By making them optional the burden is placed too highly on individuals to take the hard or unfamiliar route thereby exposing them to unfair competition with other students who can pick up easier marks in familiar quantitative multiple choice modules.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Short-Term Reforms</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Utilise the capabilities of academics that research alternative economic perspectives in the Manchester Business School, International Political Economy, Geography and History to put on non-mainstream modules. There are templates with the existing University College program and LSE 100. This is only a short-term solution as changes really need to happen within the Economics Department. If they do not take place inside the Department, other ways of doing economics will continue to be defined as something other than economics.</li>
<li>Utilise the Department’s limited capability to teach non-mainstream economics. The optional, not-for-credit module we’ve been running with a staff member in economics should be put on for credits next year. ‘Bubbles, Panics & Crashes’, teaches first about the history of financial crises and then about competing interpretations of these. The module encompasses general historical trends, key mechanics of the financial sector and policy debates as well as theory.</li>
<li>Train teaching assistants to be able to facilitate discussions in tutorials. Problem sheets should have to be done before and linked to assessment to make sure they are completed. This means that students will develop an understanding of the field through an on-going process, rather than saving it all up to rattle off a few multiple choice questions in the summer.</li>
<li>Add three lectures onto the macro and micro modules to study critical interpretations and alternative theories. Many economics lectures end fairly early in the semester so there is definitely space to do this. In the medium term these</li>
</ul>
<hr />
50<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
changes should be woven into the fabric of all core micro and macro modules and not just tacked on at the end.</blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Lecturers should outline key assumptions, introduce empirical data sets and attempt to explore the methodological framework being used when teaching economic theory. This means that students will be more aware of the foundations that theories are based on and gives them the opportunity to reflect on how well each theory explains economic data.</li>
</ul>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Medium Term Reforms</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>We have labelled these reforms medium term because we realise that they will not happen overnight. However, we wish to see real evidence that the Economics Department are taking the steps to implement these reforms in the short-term.</li>
<li>Redesign modules to phase out multiple choice exams wherever possible. Make essay writing and presentations more prominent in order to develop written and verbal communication skills. Provide substantive assessment of students’ ability to engage with and criticise theory and to develop arguments for positions in which there is no one correct answer.</li>
<li>Economic theory should be linked to bigger picture political social and ethical questions e.g. should governments intervene in the market? What if any are the limits to markets?</li>
<li>A module similar to Studying Economics but for all economics students. Introduce landscape of different paradigms and contested nature of economics.</li>
<li>Data first approach - analyse which theories explain empirical data best at different specific points.</li>
<li>Map out the full economic landscape to all undergraduates. Introduce competing paradigms and major debates. Make critical tools available to judge which theories are better or worse.</li>
<li>All economics students should do a dissertation. It could be a short dissertation which are 20 credits and 9,000 words. Dissertations should give students the chance<br />
to critically consider how alternative economic perspectives approach a certain question and develop their own independent argument based on that engagement.</li>
</ul>
<hr />
51<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Open ‘closed shop’ Economics Department by hiring non-mainstream economists. This will involve the University recognising that its research development strategy as represented in the Manchester 2020 document is detrimental for economics education. It must develop an alternative economic strategy in which a push for higher research rankings is combined with a commitment to hiring non-mainstream economists in the economics department.</li>
<li>Redesign core micro and macro modules. Introduce other economic paradigms including institutional, complexity, evolutionary, post-Keynesian, feminist, ecological and Austrian economics into the core modules. Comparatively examine definitions, objectives, assumptions, methodology and implications of economic perspectives. How well do they explain and predict economic phenomena. History of economic thought and economic history should be woven into core modules as a pedagogical tool for teaching theories and models.</li>
</ul>
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Conclusion: Why is the Crisis so important?</span></h3>
“<i>When we don’t have controversy, it is sorely missed and difficult to create artificially; so how absurd it is—how worse than absurd—to deprive oneself of it when it occurs spontaneously!”<br />
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty</i><br />
<br />
The Financial Crisis illustrated to us that no economic paradigm has enough of the answers to be given the power to define what is and isn’t economics. Instead students must be taught a broader range of theories and the toolkit to be able to critically evaluate, compare and in the final analysis judge which theories provide better answers to the economic phenomena that constitute our economies.<br />
<hr />
52<br />
Our argument for reform is reasonable. We are not attempting to claim that neoclassical economics is wrong or that it ought to be wiped from the syllabus at Manchester, our argument does not depend on this. We only claim that there has developed a state of affairs in which a certain method of doing economics has become ascendant and gained a monopoly along with the power to define what is good and bad economics. This power is tied to political and institutional processes in which economics departments have become increasingly homogeneous over time. All this has had a knock on effect on economics education and as a result we are increasingly being taught one way of doing economics as if it represented universal economic truth. This process must be reversed for the sake of students, the discipline and society. In the history of economics, at every juncture when new insights have been gained into the workings of markets, institutions and processes like innovation or cyclicality, this has occurred because existing conventional wisdom has been overturned. Failure to place variety, plurality, diversity, contestation, criticism, discussion, debate, argument and, not least, the confrontation of theory with evidence at the centre of economics education is short-sighted and dangerous when the discipline of economics owes its existence and continuance to these very faculties. (Freeman 2007, pp. 8-9).<br />
<br />
It is ironic that since we have started the Post-Crash Economics Society we have spent a lot of our time debating with people the relative merits of a neoclassical approach versus the flaws of various heterodox approaches. Our discussions with our professors that have brought a culture of debate and contestation back into economics and both our education and the academic environment within the Department have improved as a result. This is what is lacking from our economics education and is really what we are asking for.<br />
We hope that the Economics Department and the University senior management will accept the reasonableness of our arguments and take seriously our propositions for reform. We ask that the University of Manchester provide a formal response to this report to outline areas which they agree with us and where they disagree with us. We also ask that they provide us a timetable for any economics education reforms they plan to make as a result of this report. This latter point is vital so that economics education reform is not swallowed by institutional inertia and so that economics students can hold their University to account.<br />
<hr />
53<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Appendix 1:<br />
Response to the Institute for New Economic Thinking’s CORE programme</span></h3>
We would like to start by congratulating the INET CORE project. The current state of economics education is not good enough and the CORE project has recognised these shortcomings and is acting to improve upon them. This response to CORE in part looks to highlight the positive inroads it is making. However, overall we want to stress why the project in its current form falls drastically short of our desires. There is one major reason why we cannot endorse CORE; it has once again dismissed alternative perspectives of economics. It does not appear to count them as relevant or useful and has not included them in its curriculum reform plans. It is therefore incompatible with our vision for a reformed economics curriculum.<br />
<br />
To begin, we will examine the positive aspects of the CORE project. Judging by the materials we have seen, the CORE curriculum is a vast improvement on current mainstream textbooks in many ways. One of the most prominent improvements is the significant increase in real world data and empirical evidence. The new curriculum looks at the world and provides economic interpretations of what it can see. We are greatly in favour of this approach and feel it is the only way in which people studying the discipline relate to what they are being taught. Another positive side effect of this, and one that the CORE curriculum embraces fully, is the inclusion of economic history throughout its modules. It looks at the effects of economic decisions and offers explanations as to why these effects came about. It should be mentioned that there are dangers with this which must be considered: for example, what data should we rely on for analysing the economy and which periods of history do students need to know about? What can be covered in one degree is of course limited and so where attention is focused is crucial to consider. We feel we are unable to comment on the way in which CORE deals with these problems until the completed curriculum is rolled out at the beginning of the next academic year.<br />
<br />
The inclusion of history is a demonstration of another positive change delivered by the CORE curriculum; the inclusion of relevant but arguably separate disciplines. A comprehensive teaching of economics is impossible without the inclusion of history, politics, ethics, sociology and other social sciences. Human behaviour is multifaceted and the social<br />
<hr />
54<br />
sciences are inextricably intertwined. The CORE curriculum recognises this and looks at the implications of economic decisions through a variety of lenses. This is very promising, though it must again be stressed that only once we see the full syllabus will we be able to fully ascertain whether this is done to an adequate extent.<br />
CORE also uses modern interactive technology which may well be beneficial. It makes the material easier to access and engage with, which is an asset that will make it popular with students for both superficial and substantive reasons. This list of benefits is not exhaustive and we believe that any student studying the CORE textbook will conclude their education considerably better than education led by pre-CORE textbooks. We therefore agree that it is an improvement on what we have today. However, we would like to emphasise that we still fundamentally disagree with some important aspects of CORE and do not believe that it will produce the type of economists that society needs. Let us explain the reasons why.<br />
<br />
Firstly, we are not convinced that the way to improve economics education most effectively is to concentrate on ‘textbooks’. Though good textbooks are a massive help to dedicated and resourceful teachers, they will do nothing to help less dedicated teachers. CORE will help lecturers that are willing to seek out and explore its benefits but it will not help those who aren’t. This therefore leads us to propose more investment in teacher training and changes in hiring policy in relevant areas, shifting focus from research prowess to teaching ability. Universities must find a better balance between improving their research positions and providing the quality of teaching that will ensure economists are fit for purpose.<br />
<br />
Secondly, and most importantly, critical skills are vital skills to nurture in any burgeoning economist. Economists must be able to utilise a large amount of knowledge and draw on theories that interpret or explain different events and patterns. They must be able to judge the applicability of a theory in some contexts, and its limitations in others, as well as being able to learn from their mistakes. We do not believe that this level of critical engagement is possible if one remains completely within one paradigm. Pluralism is absolutely necessary, not only to give us a breadth of ideas to draw upon, but also to help us to understand dominant ideas in much more depth. Understanding the values and methodologies that form a competing theory sheds light on the values and methodologies of the dominant theory. This need not be a battleground, it can be an environment in which contrasting<br />
<hr />
55<br />
ideas coexist, coming to each other’s aid wherever appropriate. Without pluralism of economic perspectives our mastery of the discipline is impossible, as is our ability to acknowledge that the economic theories we use are fallible. Our capacity to critique and develop the progression of our field of study is greatly reduced.<br />
The monopoly of neoclassical economics and the absence of any competing theories is the biggest failing of the CORE project. This is why we do not believe it will produce the humble, tolerant, creative and adaptable economists needed to face future economic problems. We think it is worth noting here that INET’s first attempt at devising curriculum reform, led by Robert Skidelsky, was open to other approaches. Whilst the material was not as developed as the current project, it suggested a genuine desire to embrace pluralism and the form of education which we favour. The “highly abstract approach emphasising optimising behaviour, stable preferences and equilibrium” was seen as limited and an open approach to answering economic questions was stressed throughout3. A rediscovery of these principles at INET and the CORE project would be welcome.<br />
<br />
Ultimately, CORE in its current form seems to be a good tool to assist passionate teachers in teaching mainstream economics and is an improvement on current syllabuses. Yet despite its virtues, it must not be mistaken for the radical restructuring of economics education we need.<br />
<br />
3 <a href="https://www.ineteconomics.org/sites/inet.civicactions.net/files/Problems_and_Principles.pdf">https://www.ineteconomics.org/sites/inet.civicactions.net/files/Problems_and_Principles.pdf</a><br />
<hr />
56<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Bibliography</span></h3>
Arnsperger, Christian and Varoufakis, Yanis (2006), “What Is Neoclassical Economics?”, Post-Autistic Economics Review, Issue no. 38, 1st July.<br />
Bezemer, Dirk (2009), “No One Saw This Coming: Understanding Financial Crisis Through Accounting Models”, Research Report 09002, University of Groningen, Research Institute SOM (Systems, Organisations and Management).<br />
Carlin, Wendy (2013) “Economics explains our world – but economics degrees don’t”, Financial Times, 17th November. Available at: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74cd0b94-4de6-11e3-8fa5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2mLDnXqBi (Accessed on 02/12/13).<br />
Coyle, Diane et al. (2013), “Teaching Economics After the Crisis: Report from the Steering Group”, Royal Economics Society Newsletter, May 2013. Available at: http://www.res.org.uk/view/article7Apr13Features.html (Accessed 02/12/13). Duesenberry, J. S (1949), Income, Saving and the Theory of Consumer Behaviour, Cambridge: Harvard University Press. Freeman, Alan (2007), “Catechism versus pluralism: the heterodox response to the national undergraduate curriculum proposed by the UK Quality Assurance Authority”, The University of Greenwich. Available at: http://mpra.ub.unimuenchen.de/6832/1/MPRA_paper_6832.pdf (Accessed on 14/04/14). Joffe, Michael (2013), “Teaching Evidence-Based Economics”, Royal Economics Society Newsletter. Available at: http://www.res.org.uk/view/art6Oct13Features.html (Accessed 02/12/13). Kaldor, Nicholas (1982), The Scourge of Monetarism, Oxford: Oxford University Press. Keen, Steven (2011), Debunking Economics, 2nd edition, London: Zed Books Ltd. Lawson, Tony (2013), “What is this ‘school’ called neoclassical economics?”, Cambridge Journal of Economics.<br />
<hr />
57<br />
Lazear, Edward (1999), “Economic Imperialism”, Nation Bureau of Economic Research, Cambridge Massachusetts. Lee Frederic, Pham Xuan, and Gu, Gyun (2013). “The UK Research Assessment Exercise and the narrowing of UK economics, Cambridge Journal of Economics, 37, 693–717. Lewin, Leif and Lavery, Donald (1991) Self-Interest and Public Interest in Western Politics, Oxford: Oxford University Press. Mearman Andrew. (2007) “Teaching heterodox economics concepts”, The Economics Network, Accessible at https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/handbook/heterodox/ (Accessed on 02/12/13). Mearman, Andrew, and Papa, Aspasia, and Don J., Webber (2013) “Why do students study economics?” Economics Working Paper Series 1303, University of West England. Musgrave, Alan (1981), “’Unreal Assumptions’ in Economic Theory: the F-twist Untwisted”, Kyklos, Vol. 34, No. 3, 377-387.<br />
Pomorina, Inna (2012) “Economics Graduates’ Skills and Employability Survey”, Economics Network and the Higher Education Academy. Tily, Geoff (2010), Keynes Betrayed: The General Theory, the Rate of Interest and ‘Keynesian’ Economics, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan.<br />
Tobin, James (1970) “Money and Income: Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?”, The Quarterly Journal of Economics, Vol. 84, No. 2, 301-317. What a stupid thing to call an essay.<br />
University of Manchester. Manchester 2020 Strategic Plan (November, 2011). Available: http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/vision/ (Accessed on 02/12/13)<br />
Wigstrom, Christian (2011) “A Survey of Undergraduate Economics Programmes in the UK”, Institute of New Economic Thinking Curriculum Committee. Available:<br />
http://ineteconomics.org/research-programs/curriculum-committee (Accessed 02/12/13)<br />
Wilson David and Dixon William (2009) “Performing Economics: A Critique of ‘Teaching and Learning’”, International Review of Economics Education, Vol. 8, No. 2, 91-105.<br />
<hr />
58<br />
Blank Page<br />
<hr />
59 </li>
</ul>
<hr />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">the author</span> sells <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan belts made to order, and Bouncing Boots made in the UK">vegan shoes online at Veganline.com</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">, a UK online vegan shoe sho<span style="font-family: inherit;">p</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<hr />
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-63105349266632687122015-12-11T12:42:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:23:11.661+01:00Simple book keeping and account aggegators<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<head> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
Choosing a UK business bank account<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html</a> <br />
Free, Fast and Pretty: shopping cart software for ecommerce<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html</a><br />
Simple Bookkeeping and Account Agregators <span style="color: red;"><this page</span><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html</a><br />
Free Online Bookkeeping Software for Simple Accounts<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html</a></fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
These are just some notes-in-progress about account aggregaters considered for income tax but not VAT, and for the self employed. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">It's relevant if you're choosing a bank account as well, because you'll quite likely want an account that works with one of these if you're self employed and using it for business. There's another post about choosing a bank account</a></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Making tax digital - why a lot of people are changing tax software this year</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/115895">https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/115895</a> says under "full response" that automatic quarterly tax updates will be expected by software links, and that this is part of a grand design here <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-digital">https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-digital</a><br />
<br />
Yorkshire building society's version of eWise closed with very little notice, and Quickfile's service for over 1,000 lines of data a month began to charge. <br />
<br />
Even if services don't close, it can make sense to have some card accounts on one online accounting system and one on another. Details of cards used for one purpose - like postage - can rest on one online service, used only if there is a tax inspection. The rest can rest more simply on another used for year-to-year tax returns.<br />
<br />
When services close, there's a problem of what to do with saved data in one format when your new software wants them in another. The .qif format is something I never want to use again, but the rest are capable, I guess, of conversion. <a href="http://www.csvconverter.biz/">http://www.csvconverter.biz/</a> does some of it online. I had to use the older version to cope with odd columns in files, while keeping a total, and I had to use one of the apps on <a href="https://labs.crunch.co.uk/">https://labs.crunch.co.uk/</a> to convert Santander text files to something more common.<br />
<br />
While writing this, I discovered the world of payroll software. See the section on downloadable software below and Adminsoftware.biz</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Since writing this blog post I've found the getapps site, which assumes all online accounting software is paid-for or "fremium" but lets a few free services join the list. It's possible to sort by areas of the world served, the kinds of businesses that review the app or that it's intended for, and that's it. It can't search for all the programs with bank integration. Some free-ish programs I hadn't heard of are <a href="http://slickpie.com/">Slickpie.com</a> and Gemmaccounts.com. Another site lists Zipbooks.com, with its own time-tracking software built-in. <a href="https://www.odoo.com/">Odoo.com</a> is over my head because it offers so many apps, as is <a href="https://www.inexfinance.com/">Inexfinance.com</a> that's something to do with import export. There are probably others, but I started by looking at ways of downloading UK bank data easily and free, usually via Yodlee, so I will stick to that.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<br />
<br />
Account downloading software overlaps with free online book keeping and accounting software, with programs like Waveapps here at the overlap, followed by more account downloading software.<br />
<br />
There is more about accounting software near the bottom of this page, but for neatness I've started a fresh blog post about it - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html</a> . It's a shorter blog post listing the free online accounting software that cropped-up in a search for a UK freelance business.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Waveapps</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<a href="https://www.waveapps.com/">https://www.waveapps.com</a> is one I'm trying to use now. <br />
<br />
It is more than an app for downloading bank statements; it can write invoices, keep track of bills, run accounts for both of those, reconcile the bank statement lines with different categories, and more. It has a nifty system for accepting bills by email too.<br />
<br />
<br />
Good points:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>It can log-on to UK banks</b>., and can eventually classify this data into its own categories, such as "computer services" for money that comes via Paypal. </li>
<li><b>Invoices</b> can be sent from the program to integrate with it. They can work with its 1.9% stripe card processing account. When I told waveapps that I had a limited company, the upselling link changed from "save money" to "business deals", and the stripe rate fell slightly.</li>
<li><b>It can split lines of data between categories</b>. This takes a while to find but it's there (put another way, the interface is deceptively simple). If you have a card that you usually only use for paying bribes, which are a business expense, but one day you use it for buying drugs, which are private, then you can label that line as split between two headings.</li>
<li><b>It has heard of VAT</b> and has boxes for itemising input taxes or output taxes on each record of money in and money out. I think it can calculate backwards from the total how-much of a payment is VAT.</li>
<li><strike>Payroll in the US or Canada with US or Canadian taxes applied </strike></li>
</ul>
Bad points:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>Payroll</b> only works in the US or Canada according to the menus. </li>
<li><b>It can't be taught how to recognise lines of data from the bank statement and categorise</b>, as can Yodlee and even some of the banks themselves like Starling Bank.<br />
Waveapps has some system, but this system can't change; paypal income will always be "computers and internet", rather than "sales". I wasn't sure but this more <a href="http://www.merchantmaverick.com/reviews/wave-accounting-review/">detailed review by Katherine Miller</a> reaches the same conclusion after checking discussion threads and forums.</li>
<li><b>Slow rendering of old data</b>. <u>The program discourages checking of balances in order to reduce the need</u>. Balances are only shown if you display one single account like a bank account in date order. Then if you see that that balance is wrong, and want to go back by screens of 50 or 100 lines over several screens'-worth of data to find the mistake, you have to wait five minutes at each search. Entering dates to narrow down the search in another way is just as slow. As a result, you need to check your data before sending this to an accountant; nobody at an accountants' office can charge you a low fee while waiting five minutes for each screen to load just to check a mistake.</li>
<li><b>No keyword or number search</b>. You can order a period of data by date or amount or I think by name, and you can sort some of the columns, but I have not found a Control+F function or anything more subtle; it's designed to discourage strains on its database </li>
<li> <a href="http://fitsmallbusiness.com/wave-apps-review/">Jeremy Marsan's review from the USA compares waveapps to similar products that cost so-much-a-month. It also has a comments section for the disgruntled. These features and integrations are cut-and pasted from his review.</a></li>
<li><h3 id="features">
<span style="color: #3aa5fb;"><b>Features</b></span></h3>
<table class="tablepress tablepress-id-175" id="tablepress-175" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto; text-align: left;"><thead>
<tr class="row-1 odd"><th class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 1.2;">
<b>Features it has </b></div>
</th><th class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 1.2;">
<b>Features it Does Not have</b></div>
</th></tr>
</thead><tbody>
<tr class="row-2 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
5 Types of Accounts</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Categorization/Automation Rules</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-3 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Auto-import Bank Statements</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
**Payroll</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-4 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Invoicing</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Time Tracking</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-5 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
*Payment Processing</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Inventory Management</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-6 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Multi-Currency</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div style="text-align: left;">
*Payment Processing available via Stripe integration</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
**<a href="http://fitsmallbusiness.com/best-payroll-software-reviews/">Payroll software</a> available as an optional add-on</div>
<h3 id="integrations">
<span style="color: #3aa5fb;"><b>Integrations</b></span></h3>
<table class="tablepress tablepress-id-176" id="tablepress-176"><thead>
<tr class="row-1 odd"><th class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 1.2;">
<b>Integrations it has</b></div>
</th><th class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 1.2;">
<b>Integrations it does not have</b></div>
</th></tr>
</thead><tbody>
<tr class="row-2 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Payment Processing (Stripe, Paypal)</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Cloud Storage (Google Drive, DropBox)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-3 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Etsy</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Project Management (Basecamp, Asana)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-4 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Shoeboxed (receipt scanning)</div>
</td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Time Tracking (Toggl, Harvest)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-5 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
CRM (Zoho, Salesforce)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-6 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
eCommerce (Shopify, Big Commerce)</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-7 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Tax Prep Software</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-8 even"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Digital Signature</div>
</td></tr>
<tr class="row-9 odd"><td class="column-1" style="text-align: left;"><br /></td><td class="column-2" style="text-align: left;"><div style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 1.2;">
Zapier</div>
</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tech/accounting-software/an-accountants-guide-to-cloud-bookkeeping-tools">Glenn Martin reviews the most used so-much-a-month products from a UK accountant's perspective, leaving out waveapps altogether but including some price breakdowns for the others</a>.</li>
</ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Wonderbill new 2017</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
This has just come-out mid-2017 and isn't reviewed here.<br />
https://www.wonderbill.com/ - "enjoy all of your bills in one place". It logs-on to the bill providers' web sites and not banks, apparently. "We make money by recommending better and cheaper deals." - "a One-Stop-Shop when it comes to managing your bills and saving money."</div>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Yodlee</span> </h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><b>moneydashboard version of yodlee</b></span></h4>
<span style="color: black;"><a href="https://www.moneydashboard.com/"> Moneydashboard</a> is set-up to monitor your personal spending, and is worth comparing with Buxfer further down the page.<br />
Moneydashboard automatically logs-on to your bank accounts and backs-up a few years' data for free.<br />
It gives you the odd spending graph and anticipated regular payment on a screen if you want.<br />
It can remember budgets and tell you if you are over-budget or under-budget.<br />
It learns to categorise transactions if you want.<br />
With practice, you can download data for one bank account or all of them into a .csv file.<br />
<br />
Users can download the resulting categorised transaction lines as a .csv spreadsheet or read them alongside self-set budget headings or expected regular payments on the dashboard site.<br />
This is the list of supported banks from December 2015: AA | Adam & Company | Amazon | American Express | Asda | Bank of Ireland | Bank of Scotland | Barclaycard | Barclays | Beta | Birmingham Midshires | Cahoot | Capital One | Cater Allen | Citibank | Clydesdale | Derbyshire Building Society | FairFX | First Direct | First Trust | Halifax | House of Fraser | HSBC | ICICI | Intelligent Finance | Investec | John Lewis | Lloyds | Marbles | Marks & Spencer | MBNA | Metro Bank | Mint | Nationwide | NatWest Bank | Nedbank | Newcastle Building Society | Next | Norwich & Peterborough | NS&I | Opus | Post Office | Principality | Royal Bank of Scotland | Saffron Building Society | Saga Group | Sainsburys | Santander | Scottish Widows | Smile | St James Place | Tesco Bank | The Co-operative Bank | The One Account | TSB | Ulster Bank | Vanquis Bank | Virgin Money | Yorkshire Bank | Yorkshire Building Society |</span><br />
Categories are better than Yodlee for a self employed person. For a start, they come under headings.<br />
<br />
I've put the list at the bottom of this page as Appendix 2.<br />
<br />
The second part - money out - included a list of fixed headings when I first wrote this page, but now allows you to choose your own tags and apply them to all similar transactions automatically. There is a list of what each new release tries to do here:<br />
https://my.moneydashboard.com/info/releasenotes<br />
<br />
Moneydashboard produces some graphs of how you're spending compared to last month and anticipates repeated payments. It has heard of payees like Royal Mail and Ebay, and allows you to search for a few more that it knows by typing free text, if its chunky drop-down menus don't suggest one.<br />
<br />
When I looked at this first, it was good for what it was designed to do - tracking where your spending goes - but not good for adapting to other purposes. There was no way to have the same category for money in and money out for example. The list of release notes shows regular improvements to it's worth signing-up just to see what happens next.</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="color: red;"><b><strike>kublax version of yodlee has closed</strike></b></span> </b></span></h4>
</li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><b>Lovemoney version of yodlee</b></span> </h4>
You have to sign-up to Lovemoney to see the option; there isn't a direct link to the account aggregator site. It only allows about five categories of spending under "business expenses", and most of the others like "dentist" and "eating out" are similar to the Yodlee ones and tend to confuse if not used for those purposes. Someone on the Moneydashboard help page commnents says that you can set your own categories on Lovemeny.<br />
</li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><b>Ontrees version of yodlee </b></span></h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">You have to sign up to Moneysupermarket. This one is slightly prettier with fewer options, for use on smartphones - for example I don't see how you can split a transaction between categories. They tell me by email that a lot of people have requested the ability to re-name categories, and they might do that, but the target audience of smartphone users can't do anything fiddly. </span><b><br />
</b></span></li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><strike><b>Sage version of yodlee</b></strike><span style="color: black;"> </span></span></h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">There was a free version of Sage One online accounts software with a "feed" for one bank account and one user, with no extra credit card account, as priced for the US market and probably others according to this <a href="http://www.merchantmaverick.com/reviews/sage-one-review/">review by <span style="color: black;">K</span>atherine Miller</a>. Nothing shows under "free" if you search their UK web site. Sage is a big UK accounts software firm, so I expect they just used Yodlee's bank feed and that the rest is more like Sage. Maybe their offers are different if you search from the USA.</span></span></li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><strike><b><span style="color: red;">Godaddy Online Bookkeeping Basic Version</span></b></strike></span></span></h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"> I only know that there is a <a href="http://www.merchantmaverick.com/reviews/outright-review/">review of a free ultra-basic version</a> ; bookkeeping.godaddy.com now seems to cost $6.99 monthly or $3 more through their old <a href="http://outright.com/">outright.com</a> url. Maybe the offers are different if you search from the USA.</span></span></li>
<li><h4>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;"><b><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Yodlee version of Yodlee</span></span></b></span></span></h4>
<a href="https://yodleemoneycenter.com/apps/mfaregistration.retailpv.do"> Yodlee domestic version</a> looks american at first, but covered the UK when I tested it as a web program. It has been closed to new applicants because of technical difficulties during May 2016<br />
The smartphone version on another url may have taken-over from this...<br />
Login on https://yodleemoneycenter.com/apps/mfaregistration.retailpv.doFixed categories are in Appendix 1 below. <i><br />
(distraction: <a href="https://yodleemoneycenter.com/">https://yodleemoneycenter.com </a>has a business version, but you can't use it for UK banks. "Currently Yodlee Small Business application is not applicable for residents outside US region due to contractual obligation", they tell me.)</i><br />
<b>It can log-on to UK banks</b>. It doesn't give a full list but it's probably the same as Moneydashboard below. Smile bank was recognised for example.<br />
<b>Categories look mainly domestic, but can be sub-categorised as much as you want</b>. As an experiment I added subcategories 1-13 to one of them, all accepted without complaint, so you could pick a neutral category like "expenses" and add what you wanted as a subcategory.<br />
<b>Categorisation can be taught, which is more useful than waveapps.</b> There is a screen where you tell it that a payment including "to drug" is to one category drug dealer and "to bribe" is another, but it can only categorise into its own fixed list of heading - not the subcategories you add. The list is below.<b> Other features exist on a "finapp" link</b>, including some for business accounting. I haven't tested them yet </li>
</ul>
Not Sure what connection<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><h4>
<strike><span style="color: red;"><a href="http://www.buxfer.com/">Buxfer.com</a></span></strike></h4>
[I don't update this post much, but happened to get an email from Buxfer to say they cease free "synciing" of bank data this November 2017. Syncing is about three pounds a month or more if you want to pay for it, but not free. Try MoneyDashboard. So that's why Buxfer is crossed-out]<br />
<br />
uses something like Yodlee to do a little more than Money dashboard. According to one post online <i>"</i><span class="rendered_qtext"><i>Based on their implementation I'm guessing they are using the code Wesabe open sourced when they folded. Pretending to be a valid OFX client and requesting the data from a FI's OFX server pretending to be Quicken or Microsoft Money."</i>. The program also uploads .csv files but hasn't any way of downloading files to your hard disc at first glance. <br />
<br />
A glance at other features shows nothing for tax or accounting beyond the category tags and some pre-set graphs, but a few extras for personal accounts like emails after unusual changes, a calander, and a reminder service. There's a system for sharing information with contacts, in a kind of virtual shared project, which I don't understand and one or two extra paid-for services for predicting spending.<br />
<br />
The free version is good at logging-on automatically and categorising transactions.<br />
<br />
Tagging of bank statement lines is flexible; it doesn't tell you what category to tag a transaction, such as "Paypal: Computer Services"; it lets you tag a transaction and shows you any saved rules for you to edit.<br />
<br />
Editing of descriptions is possible too, and can be automated in a the same flexible way. You can teach it to change a line like "FASTER PAYMENT RECEIPT FROM PAYPAL REF HJLKJHKLJH £30" to "Paypal" if you tell it to change every line with that keyword. It keeps a note of the original so that you can un-do your change later.<br />
<br />
Tagging and description-editing are both better on Buxfer than on Moneydashboard, a similar service.</span></li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">eWise</span></h3>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="http://www.ewise.com.au/accunity/aa/home.asp">www. ewise.com.au/accunity/aa/home.asp</a> eWise is the one I've used before. A shortcut is <a href="http://accountunity.co.uk/">http://accountunity.co.uk</a> . The site is run a a demonstration in the hope that other companies will pay to use the technology. The demonstration site only works, I think, in Internet Exployer - not Edge or Firefox or Chrome - but Internet Explorer is still available free.<br />
<br />
It has a beta test version which will categorise transactions, show them on a time line, and work on several browsers including smartphones. Unfortunately it will do the categorisation for you, assuming that you have a private bank account. Maybe if enough beta-testers tell them, they will allow tweaking of categories.<br />
<br />
Other companies have paid to use eWise, and tidied it up a bit.</li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="color: red;"><b><strike>citybank version of eWise has closed </strike></b></span></li>
<span style="color: red;"><b> </b></span>
<li><span style="color: red;"><b><strike>egg bank version of eWise has closed</strike></b></span></li>
<span style="color: red;"><b> </b></span>
<li><span style="color: red;"><b><strike>yorkshire building society version of eWise has closed</strike></b></span></li>
<li><span style="color: red;"><b><a href="http://www1.firstdirect.com/1/2/banking/ways-to-bank/internet-banking-plus">first direct - page lists all available accounts</a> before registering for "internet banking plus"</b></span><br />
<br />
Skip this if your want book-keeping aids. eWise lets you read statements, and that's it: a password storage system and a way of showing your online statement in read-only form. The original version includes some accounts from other countries outside the UK and some non-bank accounts like ebay and oyster.<br />
<br />
The data is not kept anywhere; it is just displayed as your bank displays it, so you are limited to the ninety days or so that most banks let you browse-back over the statements. On the other hand you are more likely to download them monthly if you can remember how to log-on, so this is good to use for downloading data for desktop accounts programs such as Grisbi below. Formats like 1201.xls for January 2012 are good, to avoid duplicates. A catch when learning to use the software is that it opens -up a window on the dashboard part of the screen for your bank, as an unexpected little icon. The pure version only works in <a href="http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/internet-explorer/download-ie">internet explorer</a>, although some banks like Yorkshire Building Society managed to tidy-up this fault.</li>
</ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<strike><span style="color: red;"><b>B</b>ankcontrol.co.uk</span></strike></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><a href="http://www.bankcontrol.co.uk/">Bankcontrol.co.uk</a> doesn't let new customers open an account from a windows desktop; it could be an android-only application of I could have missed something. The web site hasn't been updated for a few years, so maybe they're looking for business offers. They claim to<br />
- download years' worth or the maximum possible amount of bank data over wifi (wobbly phone connections aren't recommended) and to be able to <br />
- translate the bank's labels on your transactions according to your own rules.</span></span><br />
- download NatWest, RBS, Lloyds TSB, HSBC, Santander (Abbey), Halifax, Smile (no credit cards yet), John Lewis Partnership (Waitrose) credit cards </blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Beanbalance.com</span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuuTpbt1fyDujuVyml5gp-6a80kwwxvCDm0kvhyphenhyphengtscIpFpvLvEo-4cqYqt14zp6R0I1FsBoBltU8bgw7DeY5_lRI6bVreOQW_bi1AYK1T9QrbobnKPQR3RRezGF1TV03pxqoNwIII_FLk/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="619" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuuTpbt1fyDujuVyml5gp-6a80kwwxvCDm0kvhyphenhyphengtscIpFpvLvEo-4cqYqt14zp6R0I1FsBoBltU8bgw7DeY5_lRI6bVreOQW_bi1AYK1T9QrbobnKPQR3RRezGF1TV03pxqoNwIII_FLk/s640/temp.jpg" width="640" /></a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<a href="http://www.beanbalance.com/">BeanBalance.com</a> is a new program that doesn't mention any ability to download data straight from the bank, which doesn't have to be associated with online systems but would be nice. The disadvantage of a cloud-based system remains: they can turn the server off. Two advantages remain. You can use it wherever you are. So can colleagues, like an accountant. <br />
<ul class="lcv2-ul">
<li>Download and import your bank statements</li>
<li>BeanBalance currently supports Microsoft Money files, OFX files, Quickbooks or QBO files, Sage Line 50 files and QIF files</li>
<li>Additional file format support will be implemented soon</li>
</ul>
<a href="http://www.beanbalance.com/Home/Index#features">The software has a good page of information about what it does</a>, but as you can see from the table, the fancy stuff is paid-for. It and Brightbook are unusual in offering free payroll software with upload of data to HMRC for a handfull of staff - three in this case - which is the main reason for including it on this list. Scroll down the page for downloadable free accounts software that does UK payroll.</blockquote>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Brightbook: moved to the blog post about book-keeping</span></h3>
<ul></ul>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Other online services - with downloadable software below</span></h3>
<ul>
<li>Money.strands.com is no longer an automatic account aggregator and although free had a nag saying "one day left of your free subscription" for a long time, and did work to classify uploaded bank statements. Now it has been redesigned as an apple smartphone app, free to download.</li>
<li>https://planner.royallondon.com/Login/ looks like something to try to sell you a pension</li>
</ul>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Receipts to records </span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq ">
</blockquote>
<a href="http://lifehacker.com/five-best-mobile-document-scanning-apps-1691417781">http://lifehacker.com/five-best-mobile-document-scanning-apps-1691417781</a><br />
<br />
Lifehacker lists some of the smartphone apps that will email a photo of a receipt, with a few attempts at tidying-up the picture for text recognition. Some charge. Shoeboxed charges for more than 5 receipts per month per account. Others are free or have a small one-off charge.<br />
<br />
Wavapps have a free service that will recognise your email address and put the picture of a receipt in a form with guessesd fields filled-in for the organisation and amount<br />
<br />
As someone who sits at a desk with a PC, I've never felt the need to scan every invoice or paid receipt; I just put them in a folder when they're paid. So I haven't tested any of these apps, but as more and more receipts and invoices are available online or come by email, one day it could be worth photographing the last few paper ones just to add them to the same system.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Downloadable software: Acemoney Grisbi or Adminsoft </span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Desktop software has a more stable market now. <br />
<br />
Quicken and Microsoft Money have admitted that they don't want to provide their paid-for downloadable personal finance software with its private formats like .qif or Quickens <i>"sunset policy",</i> designed to try to make you buy a new bit of software every ten years. <br />
<br />
Book keeping software like <a href="http://www.mechcad.net/products/acemoney/personal-finance-software-quicken-alternative.shtml">Acemoney</a>, <a href="http://www.grisbi.org/">Grisbi.org</a>, and <a href="http://www.adminsoftware.biz/">Adminsoftware.biz</a> can't be withdrawn back-off your hard disk by the authors; it can't be closed on a whim like the online services, it can't be stopped by a broken internet connection, and for better or worse it can't be used by anyone anywhere. Unless you put it on a pen drive, but even that only lets you use it in one place at a time till you loose it.<br />
<br />
The only catch is that, so far, is that they can't automatically download data from your bank statement. Acemoney claim to be able to do it in the USA, but not yet in the UK. You have to remember to do it yourself every month or three and remember what the more mysterious items were after that time when you come to categorise them on your software. You can use eWise to log-in to most bank accounts quickly for downloading.<br />
<br />
I know of these three examples because I used Acemoney for a bit and found it easy and good-looking. It's free for two accounts that link together; paid-for for more. Grisbi is one of the open source options at the simpler end of the market. Adminsoft cropped-up in a search just now for UK payroll software.<br />
<br />
Book-keeping aids are a funny bunch because their users have different needs and their authors tend to be accountants, keen to add an element of double-entry which is exactly what customers like me do not want. That's a problem for the sort of software that you download onto your hard disc. Or, put another way, users want a system that compares entries against a bank statement rather than having two sets of entries in the software. Add to that a problem that open source writers tend to go for interesting subjects, like solving world poverty or doing something artistic, leaving jobs like payroll or book keeping to a few rare efforts. One is a South African accounts program from Pink Software that used to sell on giveaway CDs on the fronts of computer magazines. Another - <a href="http://www.gnucash.org/">Gnucash</a> - is used a lot as well. The trouble is that users' expectations are so different, and my expectation was not the same as the expectation expected by writers of TurboCash or GnuCash. <a href="http://www.grisbi.org/">Grisbi</a> looks from screen shots to be right for the job, which is sorting lines from a bank statement into income tax categories.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.mechcad.net/">Acemoney</a> is a pretty and easy freemium program, I found, for users of one or two accounts. The version for three or more accounts isn't free, but even two can be two many as they have to agree with each other in a kind of mental puzzle that the world does not need - there have to be out payments in one account that match in payments in another - so I try to stick to one account. The current version can even download data from some US banks, but hasn't cracked-open the UK ones yet. It's a highly international program with versions in over a dozen languages.<br />
<br />
While giving-up Quickfile.co.uk, I've found a list of other online programs that no longer exist, an obscure one called Brightbooks that only accepts uploaded data in certain column formats, and a thing called https://www.waveapps.com/ which more or less works. It truncates older lines of data down to thirty-something characters, so older imported files tend to have a lot of lines which read "Faster payment to paypal reference p" or some thing not very useful like that. There are also services like Xero which count your money and tell you that there is less of it than before because they charge for counting it.</blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"> Payroll for more than ten people</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
For those who pay staff, there are more hitches that can lead back to desktop software.<br />
Every hundred years the UK government sets-up a compulsory pension system, nationalises it, forgets that it was ever a pension system, and starts again. We are now on mark two, called "<a href="https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions">Workplace Pension</a>", while the remnants of mark one, called "<a href="https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance">National Insurance</a>" are still in place alongside the income tax <a href="https://www.gov.uk/topic/business-tax/paye">pay as you earn</a> contributions that employers have to manage. <a href="https://www.gov.uk/payroll-software/free-software">Gov.uk/payroll-software/free-software</a> is a starting point to this subject that I know very little about - it looks as though you have to employ staff in groups up to nine, or maybe use HMRC's own software alongside something else, or maybe resort to desktop software from <a href="http://www.adminsoftware.biz/">Adminsoftware.biz</a>, who say this about their free downloadable accounts software:</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>.... developed specifically for the United Kingdom. It can submit information to HMRC using Real Time Information, and we believe at this time, it's the only free <a href="https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll">payroll</a> that will allow in excess of 10 employees. The maximum is 250 employees. However, Adminsoft Accounts is primarily an accounts system, and so the payroll is basic. While very usable, and fully compliant with payroll legislation, it does not have some of the 'bells and whistles' that some of the paid for (and rather expensive...) alternative products may have. For example, things like the amount of <a href="https://www.gov.uk/employers-sick-pay">Statutory Sick Pay</a>, <a href="https://www.gov.uk/employers-maternity-pay-leave">Statutory Maternity Pay</a>, student loans, etc. have to be worked out by hand, where as a more sophisticated payroll would work out the amounts automatically. But I don't want to talk you out of using it! In reality, when running a small payroll, <a href="https://www.gov.uk/calculate-statutory-sick-pay">working out the odd Statutory Sick Pay payment</a> or what ever is not really an issue.</i></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Waveapps software will only do anything to do with payroll if you pretend that you are in the USA or Canada, and I haven't discovered what difference this makes - certainly the deductions and reporting will be different.</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/pandlecloud/">https://www.facebook.com/pandlecloud/ </a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/pandlecloud/">Pandle.co.uk</a> is a free basic uk service. <a href="http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tech/accounting-software/pandle-takes-on-cloud-accounting-giants">This interview was in early 2016</a>. </blockquote>
<br />
<hr />
This blog comes from <br />
<a href="http://veganline.com/">Veganline.com, the online shoe shop for vegan shoes boots belts & T shirts mainly made in the UK</a> <br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Appendix 1: Yodlee categories</span></h3>
<table cellspacing="0" class="datatable std_table" id="Type_d3" summary="This table lists the categories under expense. You can nickname a category and create subcategories under it."><tbody>
<tr class="odd"><td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_100_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_100" name="categoryId_show_100" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Advertising </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_100" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_100" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_100">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Advertising</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_25_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_25" name="categoryId_show_25" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>ATM/Cash Withdrawals </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_25" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_25" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_25">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for ATM/Cash Withdrawals</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_2_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_2" name="categoryId_show_2" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Automotive Expenses </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_2" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_2" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_2">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Automotive Expenses</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_102_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_102" name="categoryId_show_102" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Business Miscellaneous </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_102" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_102" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_102">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Business Miscellaneous</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_15_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_15" name="categoryId_show_15" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Cable/Satellite Services </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_15" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_15" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_15">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Cable/Satellite Services</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_3_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_3" name="categoryId_show_3" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Charitable Giving </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_3" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_3" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_3">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Charitable Giving</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_33_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_33" name="categoryId_show_33" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Checks </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_33" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_33" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_33">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Checks</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_4_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_4" name="categoryId_show_4" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Child/Dependent Expenses </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_4" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_4" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_4">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Child/Dependent Expenses</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_5_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_5" name="categoryId_show_5" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td><a href="http://veganline.com/" title="UK-made T shirts and shoes">Clothing/Shoes</a> </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_5" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_5" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_5">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Clothing/<a href="http://veganline.com/" title="online shoe shop">Shoes</a></span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_108_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_108" name="categoryId_show_108" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Dues and Subscriptions </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_108" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_108" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_108">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Dues and Subscriptions</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_6_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_6" name="categoryId_show_6" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Education </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_6" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_6" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_6">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Education</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_43_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_43" name="categoryId_show_43" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Electronics </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_43" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_43" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_43">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Electronics</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_7_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_7" name="categoryId_show_7" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Entertainment </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_7" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_7" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_7">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Entertainment</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_8_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_8" name="categoryId_show_8" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Gasoline/Fuel </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_8" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_8" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_8">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Gasoline/Fuel</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_44_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_44" name="categoryId_show_44" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>General Merchandise </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_44" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_44" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_44">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for General Merchandise</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_9_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_9" name="categoryId_show_9" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Gifts </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_9" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_9" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_9">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Gifts</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_10_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_10" name="categoryId_show_10" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Groceries </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_10" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_10" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_10">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Groceries</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_11_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_11" name="categoryId_show_11" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Healthcare/Medical </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_11" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_11" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_11">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Healthcare/Medical</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_34_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_34" name="categoryId_show_34" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Hobbies </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_34" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_34" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_34">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Hobbies</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_13_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_13" name="categoryId_show_13" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Home Improvement </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_13" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_13" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_13">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Home Improvement</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_12_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_12" name="categoryId_show_12" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Home Maintenance </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_12" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_12" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_12">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Home Maintenance</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_14_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_14" name="categoryId_show_14" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Insurance </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_14" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_14" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_14">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Insurance</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_17_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_17" name="categoryId_show_17" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Loans </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_17" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_17" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_17">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Loans</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_18_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_18" name="categoryId_show_18" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Mortgages </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_18" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_18" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_18">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Mortgages</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_110_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_110" name="categoryId_show_110" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Office Maintenance </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_110" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_110" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_110">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Office Maintenance</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_45_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_45" name="categoryId_show_45" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Office Supplies </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_45" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_45" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_45">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Office Supplies</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_16_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_16" name="categoryId_show_16" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Online Services </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_16" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_16" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_16">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Online Services</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_35_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_35" name="categoryId_show_35" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Other Bills </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_35" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_35" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_35">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Other Bills</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_19_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_19" name="categoryId_show_19" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Other Expenses </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_19" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_19" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_19">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Other Expenses</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_20_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_20" name="categoryId_show_20" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Personal Care </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_20" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_20" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_20">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Personal Care</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_42_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_42" name="categoryId_show_42" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Pets/Pet Care </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_42" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_42" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_42">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Pets/Pet Care</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_104_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_104" name="categoryId_show_104" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Postage and Shipping </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_104" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_104" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_104">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Postage and Shipping</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_106_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_106" name="categoryId_show_106" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Printing </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_106" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_106" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_106">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Printing</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_21_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_21" name="categoryId_show_21" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Rent </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_21" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_21" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_21">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Rent</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_22_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_22" name="categoryId_show_22" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Restaurants/Dining </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_22" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_22" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_22">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Restaurants/Dining</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_24_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_24" name="categoryId_show_24" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Service Charges/Fees </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_24" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_24" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_24">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Service Charges/Fees</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_37_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_37" name="categoryId_show_37" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Taxes </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_37" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_37" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_37">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Taxes</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_38_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_38" name="categoryId_show_38" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Telephone Services </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_38" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_38" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_38">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Telephone Services</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_23_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_23" name="categoryId_show_23" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Travel </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_23" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_23" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_23">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Travel</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_39_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_39" name="categoryId_show_39" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Utilities </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_39" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_39" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_39">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Utilities</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_112_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_112" name="categoryId_show_112" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Wages Paid </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_112" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_112" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_112">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Wages Paid</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
<div class="floatleft iconViewHideUnit">
<span id="d2_hide"> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" id="d2_hide_focus" title="Hide additional information for Income"> <img alt="Hide additional information for Income" src="https://beta.yodlee.com/apps//images/collapse.gif" /></a> </span> </div>
<h3 class="categoryADAHeaderName">
Income</h3>
<fieldset class="zeroPM">
<legend>Settings for Income Categories</legend> <br />
<table cellspacing="0" class="datatable std_table" id="Type_d2" summary="This table lists the categories under income. You can nickname a category and create subcategories under it."><thead>
<tr class="Type_d2"> <th class="columnhead ccell" scope="col" width="10%">Show</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">Category Name</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">New Name</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">SubCategories</th> </tr>
</thead> <tbody>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_92_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_92" name="categoryId_show_92" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Consulting </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_92" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_92" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_92">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Consulting</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_27_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_27" name="categoryId_show_27" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Deposits </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_27" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_27" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_27">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Deposits</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_114_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_114" name="categoryId_show_114" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Expense Reimbursement </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_114" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_114" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_114">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Expense Reimbursement</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_96_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_96" name="categoryId_show_96" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Interest </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_96" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_96" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_96">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Interest</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_30_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_30" name="categoryId_show_30" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Investment Income </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_30" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_30" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_30">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Investment Income</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_32_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_32" name="categoryId_show_32" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Other Income </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_32" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_32" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_32">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Other Income</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_29_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_29" name="categoryId_show_29" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Paychecks/Salary </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_29" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_29" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_29">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Paychecks/Salary</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_31_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_31" name="categoryId_show_31" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Retirement Income </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_31" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_31" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_31">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Retirement Income</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_94_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_94" name="categoryId_show_94" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Sales </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_94" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_94" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_94">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Sales</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_98_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_98" name="categoryId_show_98" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Services </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_98" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_98" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_98">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Services</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
</fieldset>
<div class="floatleft iconViewHideUnit">
<span id="d4_hide"> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" id="d4_hide_focus" title="Hide additional information for Transfer"> <img alt="Hide additional information for Transfer" src="https://beta.yodlee.com/apps//images/collapse.gif" /></a> </span> </div>
<h3 class="categoryADAHeaderName">
Transfer</h3>
<fieldset class="zeroPM">
<legend>Settings for Transfer Categories</legend> <br />
<table cellspacing="0" class="datatable std_table" id="Type_d4" summary="This table lists the categories under transfer. You can nickname a category and create subcategories under it."><thead>
<tr class="Type_d4"> <th class="columnhead ccell" scope="col" width="10%">Show</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">Category Name</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">New Name</th> <th class="columnhead lcell" scope="col" width="30%">SubCategories</th> </tr>
</thead> <tbody>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_26_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_26" name="categoryId_show_26" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Credit Card Payments </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_26" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_26" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_26">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Credit Card Payments</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_40_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_40" name="categoryId_show_40" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Savings </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_40" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_40" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_40">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Savings</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_36_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_36" name="categoryId_show_36" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Securities Trades </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_36" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_36" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_36">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Securities Trades</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="ccell"><div class="yCheckbox yChecked " id="categoryId_show_28_div">
<input checked="checked" class="yHidden" id="categoryId_show_28" name="categoryId_show_28" type="checkbox" /> </div>
</td> <td>Transfers </td> <td><div class="yTextInput yTextInputFillParent">
<div class="yTextInputInner">
<div class="yTextInputBody">
<input id="categoryId_28" maxlength="40" name="categoryId_28" type="text" value="" /> </div>
</div>
</div>
</td> <td class="cellSubCatMng"><div class="yclear txnGridCellBg txnAddSubCatLink" id="txnAddSubCat_28">
Add Subcategory <span class="invis"> for Transfers</span> </div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
</fieldset>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Appendix 2: Moneydashboard fixed categories</span></h3>
From 2017 or 18 they allow users to invent new categories and subcategories which can be more work-related such as "bar takings" or "wholesalers". I don't see a way of removing the more domestic headings, but the combination of headings you choose and an ability to recognise transactions makes this a good bit of software for income tax. It doesn't make any tax suggestions, and it won't write an invoice, but the main bit.<br /><br />There are help pages which can be read without logging-on<br />
<a href="http://help.moneydashboard.com/entries/22326296-List-of-Available-Tags">http://help.moneydashboard.com/entries/22326296-List-of-Available-Tags</a><br />
<b><br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><u>Transactions: IN - scroll down for Transactions OUT for tax return headings</u></span></b><br />
<table style="width: 395px;"><tbody>
<tr><td width="184"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><b>GROUP NAME</b></span></td> <td width="212"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><b>TAG NAME </b></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Benefits</b></td> <td width="212">Family benefits</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Incapacity Benefits</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Job Seekers Benefits</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Other benefits<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Credit funds received</b></td> <td width="212">Credit Card Cash Advance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Mortgage release</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Payday loan funds</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Secured loan funds</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Student Loan funds</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Unsecured loan funds<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Employment</b></td> <td width="212">Bonus</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Employment – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Expenses</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Overtime</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Salary (main)</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Salary (secondary)<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Investment</b></td> <td width="212">Bond Income</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Dividend</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Interest income</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Investment income – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Winnings<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Miscellaneous</b></td> <td width="212">Bursary</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Child Support</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Divorce Settlement</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Gift</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Inheritance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Miscellaneous income – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Rewards/cash back</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Tax Rebate<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Pension</b></td> <td width="212">Lump Sum</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Pension – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">State Pension</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Work Pension<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Property</b></td> <td width="212">Property – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Rental income (room)</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Rental income (whole property)<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Refund</b></td> <td width="212">Refunded purchase</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br />
<b>Sale</b></td> <td width="212">Clothes</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Electrical Equipment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Property</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Sale – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Vehicle<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Transfer from other account</b></td> <td width="212">Credit card payment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Current account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Gambling account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Investment – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">ISA</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Paypal account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Pension</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Share dealing account<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Transfer from savings</b></td> <td width="212">Car savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Electrical item savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Holiday savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Other goal savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Property savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Rainy day savings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Savings (general)</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Wedding savings</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><u><b>Transactions: OUT</b></u></span><br />
<table style="width: 395px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td width="184"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><b>GROUP NAME</b></span></td> <td width="212"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><b>TAG NAME</b></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Administration</b></td> <td width="212">Administration – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Advertising</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Business Accommodation</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Legal</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Office supplies</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Postage/Shipping</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Printing</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Software</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Staff costs</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Stationery</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Web hosting<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Children</b></td> <td width="212">Childcare Fees</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Children – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Childrens’ Club fees</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Clothes – children</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Nursery fees</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Toys<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Clothing</b></td> <td width="212">Accessories</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Clothes</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Clothes – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Clothing hire</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Designer clothes</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Dry cleaning and laundry</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Jewellery</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212"><a href="http://veganline.com/">Shoes</a></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Work wear<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Credit Repayment</b></td> <td width="212">Credit card repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Hire purchase repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Mortgage payment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Payday loan repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Secured loan repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Store card repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Student loan repayment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Unsecured loan repayment<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Education</b></td> <td width="212">Books & Course materials</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Course & Tuition fees</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Education – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">School fees</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Stationery & consumables<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Financial</b></td> <td width="212">Bank charges</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Child support</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Divorce settlement</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Financial – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Fines</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Interest charges</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Penalty charges</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Tax payment<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Gifts, Charity & Religion</b></td> <td width="212">Birthday present</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Charity – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Christmas present</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Donation to organisation</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Flowers</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Gifts – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Religious celebration</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Religious donation</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"></td> <td width="212">Sponsorship<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Going Out</b></td> <td width="212">Caravan/Camping</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Cinema</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Concert & Theatre</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Dining & Drinking</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Going out – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Holiday</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Hotel/B&B</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Museum/exhibition</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Social club</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Sports event</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Zoo/theme park<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Hobbies & Sports</b></td> <td width="212">Art supplies</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Club membership</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Cycling</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gym Equipment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gym Membership</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Hobbies – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Hobby Club Membership</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Hobby supplies</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Musical Equipment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Personal Training</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Photography</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Sports Club Membership</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Sports Equipment<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Home and Garden</b></td> <td width="212">Antiques</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Art</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Communal charges</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">DIY</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Furniture</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Garden</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Home and garden – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Home electronics</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Kitchen / Household Appliances</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Lighting</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Soft furnishings</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Tradesmen fees<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Household</b></td> <td width="212">Broadband</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Coal/Oil/LPG/Other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Council tax</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Device rental</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Domestic supplies</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Electricity</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gas</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gas and electricity</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Groceries</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Household – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Media bundle</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Mobile</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Phone (land line)</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Rent</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Supermarket</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">TV/Movies Package</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">TV Licence</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Water<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Insurance</b></td> <td width="212">Dental insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Health insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Home appliance insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Home insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Income insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Insurance – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Life insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Mobile phone insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Motorbike insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Payment protection insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pet insurance</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Vehicle insurance<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Lifestyle</b></td> <td width="212">Alcohol</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Books/ Magazines /Newspapers</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Cash</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gambling</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Games and gaming</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Lifestyle – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Mobile app</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Music</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Personal Electronics<br />
Snacks and Refreshments</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Take-away</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Tobacco<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Personal care</b></td> <td width="212">Beauty products</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Beauty treatments</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Dental treatment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Eye care</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Hairdressing</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Medical treatment</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Medication</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Personal care – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Physiotherapy</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Spa</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Toiletries<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Pets</b></td> <td width="212">Pet food</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pet housing/care</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pet toys</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pet training</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pets – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Vet<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Transfer to other account</b></td> <td width="212">Current account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Gambling account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Investment – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">ISA</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Other account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Paypal account</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Pension</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Share dealing account<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Transfer to savings</b></td> <td width="212">Saving (general)</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for a rainy day</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for a car</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for electrical item</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for holiday</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for other goal</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for property</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Saving for wedding<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><b>Transport</b></td> <td width="212">Breakdown cover</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Driving lessons</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Flights</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Fuel</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">MOT</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Parking</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Public Transport</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Road charges</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Road/traffic fines</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Service / Parts / Repairs</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Taxi</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Transport – other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Vehicle hire</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Vehicle purchase</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="184"><br /></td> <td width="212">Vehicle Tax<br />
<br />
<br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the online vegan shoe shop</a><br />
<br />
<br /></div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com118tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-25767752805952562082015-11-20T15:32:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:23:13.808+01:00Star courses<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><head> <description>the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK - the lowest paid graduates - the worst degree for getting a job - the most boring degree</description> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<h1 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates</span></h1><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset></blockquote><hr /><h1 style="text-align: left;"></h1><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Comments and links </span></span><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">to Unistats reports were made in 2015. The links still work, linking to more recent data.</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>A search of subjects called blank at blank or * at * on <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/">unistats</a> a brings-up a list of all higher education course combinations. The first result is local but the second attempt can get all courses if you cancel the suggested area. On the same left-hand menu you can reduce the search from over 27,000 degree course combinations and make your home-grown and improved <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_the_United_Kingdom" title="university league tables">league table</a>. Results can be sorted again by some review questions on a drop down menu, with some trial and error changing the question to try to make the "data only" box work and then searching another time with a different question. Unfortunately, cost isn't one of the selectable questions but most of the courses over-charge by the maximum amount: £9,000 a year for tuition and management fees alone to UK students outside Scotland.<br />
<br />
I discovered this stuff while writing about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html">economics degree courses, and have another page about their recent scores</a>.<br />
<br />
I started writing about a 1980s economics course. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html" title="Economics Teaching at places like Keele or Oxford's PPE course needs to get better or cease because it was worse than useless when I studied it">You sometimes read that economics teachers didn't predict the banking crisis in the 2000s and that this was the worst economic crisis for 30 years. I disagree. There was another long manufacturing crisis at worst in the early 1980s, and UK economics teachers couldn't give a damn about that one either, so journalists don't know much about it</a>. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">I think the most interesting information is on the worst UK degree courses for jobs or satisfaction, because those faults are most obvious. The bad courses are not always the worst-explained; staff do their jobs on courses that are hard to explain, like economics taught from algebra and textbooks, and can still score 77% at Keele for being good at explaining things. Also, staff don't get a chance to state how boring their thick lazy students are and how much of the budget goes to managers, buildings, libraries and student unions before teaching departments get a cut to pay for enough staff time. Out of this cut, they have to pay for preparation, teaching and marking time and try to avoid meetings and admin jobs that their managers try to pull them into, such as discussing this blog post. <br />
<br />
Generally, teachers suffer when judged by their colleges and not judged by their courses. Judgement-by-college encourages college managers to reduce the budgets for paid teaching, preparation and marking hours in favour of college-wide spending. The salary for college managers is an example of college-wide spending. The rule is that claiming grants is low-paid if you are on the dole, but high-paid if you run a quango. People who teach and grade essays are paid between these two rates, but closer to the rate for people on the dole than the rate for people who run a quango. Boss-people might argue that their job is hard. I have never done it or been in the running so I don't know. Certainly a lot of good people are forced-out of the career path or choose to leave the career path that would qualify them to apply. Apply to be stared-at by colleagues, to be lobbied, to sit in meetings, to make decisions, and to make sense of a meeting cycle and a library of policies aims and objects that filled the predecessor's office before the unfortunate incident and before flowers were sent to the family while newspaper reporters camped at the gate.<br />
<br />
Specifically: if you want to study, check the course on the prospectus and unistats.<br />
If you are college manager, encourage prospects to check the course. <br />
If you invite students to interview, you might drop a hint like "interview about the course on the prospectus", because at age 18 this isn't obvious.<br />
If every prospective student looked at the unistats scores for each course, and checked the prospectus to find-out what the course was, that would help everyone including teachers, who's worst employers would close and who's best employers would have more vacancies.<br />
<br />
I have a dim memory of trying to research some some colleges before I knew my flunked A-level results. I even went to an interview at one. I asked why the college wasn't better ranked. In hindsight, I should have asked about the syllabus of the course, just to show that I had read the prospectus, which I hadn't. If current applicants learn from my mistake, they will help pass-on concerns about bad economics degree courses, even if like me they flunk their A-levels and have to skip uni or choose the only course(s) on offer. They might say <i>"I have read Robert Peston and want to know more"</i>. If the person on the other side says <i>"We start with the most basic assumptions and gradually build-up to Walrasian Equilibrium alongside brown-nosing the presumptions of Wall Street"</i>. They might think <i>"maybe we should tweak what we offer"</i>, and the student might think <i>"maybe I should give this one a miss"</i>.</div></fieldset><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="color: red;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates</span> - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span></div></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">the courses that got 0%: the worst degrees in the UK on the league tables</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><b><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10000536PT-PS29EYBAPT/ReturnTo/Search" title="There has never been a more exciting time to study at Barnsley College">£4,000 a year for four years should buy you part-time coaching from Barnsley College towards a degree called "early years"</a></b>, if you deal with small children. 0% of students thought the course was well organised or smooth. A much more positive 8% thought they got advice, support, or at least notification of changes. Assessment and criteria are organised by Huddersfield university, and are the only aspect to score just over 50%. Nearly a quarter of students thought the staff were enthusiastic or made the subject interesting, and a third thought that there was a subject worth study, or <i>"intellectually stimulating"</i>, behind the verbiage.<br />
<br />
No quote is available from the college because none of their student quotes or job descriptions get to the point. The page that should be about the course is about a student who did the course. Maybe the college took legal advice and decided not to make any claim of any kind about what they do to future students. Instead they write a lot about their other work as a sixth form college. In defence of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnsley_College#History:_Incorporation" title="Barnsley College has been recognised
as a Learning and Skills Improvement
Service (LSIS) Beacon College.
Learning and Skills Beacon Status recognises
excellent institutions that deliver high quality
teaching and learning and are well led and
managed. This cements Barnsley College’s
position as one of the best in the country.
Following on from the Outstanding Ofsted
inspection result in November, this latest
accolade has reinforced the message that
Barnsley College is the number 1 College to
study at in the region.
There has never been a more exciting time to
study at Barnsley College!">Barnsley College</a>, the unistats web site doesn't rank degree courses by all questions; this was a chance discovery. There may be several UK degree courses that scored 0% on one or more student survey questions.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><i>Higher education providers produce information for their intended audiences about the learning opportunities they offer that is fit for purpose, accessible and trustworthy. - <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/Quality-Code-19-Expectations.pdf">Quality Assurance Agency expectation</a></i></blockquote>Leeds College of Health, a mental health service based in the old High Royd Asylum buildings in Leeds, used to coach for degrees awarded by Leeds University in the 1990s. Most of the customers were from certain health trusts in Yorkshire or in Pakistan. Courses were by post and phone - faxes were refused - and tutors were not available to speak to students, even during agreed contact times. Instead a health service worker would try to make sense of what the tutor had decided and whether he had really read an essay or had any idea what the job was other than his own importance. The tutor dissappeared half way through the course, just to complicate things further. After complaints through the system at Leeds University, it looks as though they no longer offer these degrees.<br />
<br />
Reading Uni's Theatre Arts degree was taught one year alongside Education and Deaf Studies. This degree scored 0% for organisation, 10% for time-tabling, advice and support, and 30% for fair marking, feedback on work, and news of changes to the course, which is no longer on the college web site. Presumably they started by thinking <i>"cutting edge - never attempted before"</i>, as people with input funding tend to do, and then they discovered that deaf people can't hear very well. Reading Uni web site used to say<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><i>"Our BA Theatre Arts, Education and Deaf Studies is the only degree of its kind in the world. It offers you the chance to study theatre arts, education and deaf studies together, with a focus on sign theatre. Your learning will benefit from our strong links with specialist deaf schools and professional theatre companies."</i></blockquote></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - <span style="color: red;"> the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK</span> - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><b>Staffordshire Uni's 15 students of <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10006299FT-SSTK-03970/ReturnTo/Search">music journalism and broadcasting</a></b> were 6% satisfied, making it the worst-reviewed course for that overall heading for which statistics are available, although the college site quoted a <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150428103345/http://www.staffs.ac.uk/course/08P51P60.jsp" target="_blank">minority view</a> from a real graduate, stating that he is deputy editor of Base Music Magazine, which isn't real on sites like bing or google or linkedin or journalisted.<br />
<i><br />
"In what were easily the most exciting and productive three years of my life I can safely say that Staffordshire Uni developed the skills and the attitude needed to succeed as a journalist"</i></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - <span style="color: red;">the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures</span> - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">the least remembered course - a question not asked for university league tables</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>This question isn't asked, but I guess that recollection of anything about a course after 30 years is a sign that something was working in the brain at the time. I remember more faces, names, scenes, and even bits of syllabus from an arts course than an economics course done as joint honours at the same college. On the other hand I'm demonstrating skills or interests that attracted me to a technical course. Maybe the skills were made better there in ways now forgotten; maybe I pick this stuff up quicker now.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div>I suppose nobody can test forgetableness of single-subject degrees because they are forgotten. For example <a href="http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb6c6006vs;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00016&toc.depth=1&toc.id=&brand=oac4" title="Fishman: the forgettable economist who left lots of records">lectures in insurance to business administration students at the University of California in 1949</a>, Would anyone remember the lecturer? Usually nobody, but their lecturer was bounced by injustice into loosing his job and getting other jobs to teach <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Samuelson">Samualson</a>'s forgettable <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Economics-The-Original-1948-Edition/dp/0070747415#reader_0070747415">economics textbook</a> by 1965. Some civil rights activists managed to camp at his home for a night: <i><br />
<br />
"we looked up <a href="http://www.crmvet.org/lets/6506wolf.htm">Les Fishman</a> (economics professor at the <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/Economics/">University of Colorado</a>) .... They put us up for the night and then we toured the campus the next day. <br />
<br />
Fishman's first observation was the lack of ability on the part of the students to grasp ideas from a textbook. In a way, he has to spoon feed the text, but on the other hand, they won't do any permanent good if they can't develop a little independent thinking among the students"</i>. [...] <i>"The bookstore carried practically nothing but textbooks; only Gandhi's autobiography and five or six other paperbacks were available."</i><br />
<br />
The injustice was that both colleges sacked the man for being a communist, so I hoped that he had some interesting beliefs. Unfortunately, lots of americans think anything unfamiliar is witchcraft or communist, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_%28textbook%29#Initial_reception">including standard economic textbooks</a>. This man was also a member of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA">some political party with communist in its name</a>, so he was a scapegoat. A stupid thing to join, but there were two leftish parties in the US, one was called Communist and different for approving of war against Hitler - something Fishman volunteered to join as a squaddie for Dunkirk. Less was known about Stalin during the war, and Fishman had relatives in the soviet union; he would not want to get them added to any list by telling anyone anything that would get in the papers about any change to his membership of the communist party.<br />
<br />
More about this <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="Fishman Bursary in memory of Les Fishman, professor of economics at Keele University">forgettable economics teacher on another post about Keele Economics teaching when there were three or four million people unemployed because of a manufacturing crisis in the 1980s</a>. Twenty years later he still hadn't realised that you ask the students what they already know and discover the more obvious material, tell them lots of facts about what they don't already know, then pick a problem and try to solve it with real data and the right button on free software, while explaining a bit of maths to say how the software works. A lot of them mess-up embarrassingly, and get feedback, and that's OK, and students learn how to talk about evidence and disagree. Twenty years later, Fishman had become a better comedian; he liked to interrupt himself with some gleefull thought in class, and he knew his strengths as a paternal-looking character, but he never learnt his job as I saw it. He didn't even hold a tutorial.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - <span style="color: red;">the least remembered course</span> - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;"><a name='more'></a>the cheapest or lowest-paid graduates in the UK who give figures</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><div style="text-align: left;">Teenage colleges that coach for degrees among other work with sixth-formers and apprentices tend to score lower for wage rates than colleges that teach 20-odds. Colleges in low-pay low-rent areas tend to score lower. There ought to be some way of weighting the figures for both of these.<br />
<br />
The cheapest graduates are the ones who do stage work in 4 hour shifts as stage hands and actors in low-paid areas for £11,000 a year after paying £7,500 a year to <b><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10000754/ReturnTo/Search" title="the unistats wigit on their web page says 50% of graduates are employed in a professional or managerial job within 6 months">Blackpool And The Fylde College</a></b>, a college for teenagers which drama students give 100% for satisfaction. Their course was only 9% boring. <b><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Institutions/Details/10003022/ReturnTo/Search">Hereford College Of Arts</a></b> students earn an average of £11,000 a year but people from the <b><a href="https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/blacksmith.aspx" target="_blank">Blacksmith course might start on £12,000 a year</a></b>, so fine artists earn less. About fine art at Hereford:</div><br />
<i>"A significant number of our graduates go on to undertake further study at postgraduate level in areas such as film, book arts and painting, or a post graduate teaching certificate. Most graduates also continue to practise and exhibit their work nationally, with artist commissions and gallery sales common place."</i><br />
<br />
<b><a href="http://www.prospects.ac.uk/photographer_salary.htm" target="_blank">Photography</a></b> crops-up in a lot at the same low-pay colleges, with the same problems of intermittent low-paid work doing an hour or two at a time. These arts departments may suffer because so many bad-pay courses are taught together, so graduates who have got to know each other do not hear of ways to earn more, and then graduate employment statistics are averaged together across the department on unistats if they are small courses. A department of economics or accountancy and photography might do better on the league tables, and give economists and accountants a chance to do some photography. Some Hereford photography and blacksmithing graduates seek self employed work with their own web sites - one part of being able to enjoy life more later-on, so there is a benefit beyond the rate of pay. The blacksmiths also get a chance to hit things.<br />
<br />
Photographers who carry-on working working freelance are probably better paid, because advertisers quote higher rates on job-ads aimed at people with photography degrees. Adzuna.co.uk's job search engine estimates that the worst-paid jobs advertised for specific degrees are hospitality and tourism at just under £20,000 on average, business studies at £20,746, sports science at £21,406, photography at £25,109, and health or social care at £25,194<br />
<br />
<b>Accountancy</b> isn't often seen as a hobby and is generally a good qualification for getting freelance work, but graduates don't get freelance work. At some colleges, not enough accountancy graduates submitted income returns for employment figures or wages to be published. Otherwise, the places to put your gumtree add or advertise to students are Ulster, Queen's Belfast, and Hull where <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_qualified_accountants">qualified accountant</a> wages can be £14,000 in the year after graduation. <a href="http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Accountant/Salary">One web site tries to chart pay difference by location for accountants, with Northern Ireland as the cheapest place to hire an accountant and Aberdeen the most expensive</a>. Figures are unclear because some courses do not qualify graduates to sign accounts for limited liability at whatever turnover under the companies act. Another measure of graduate employment prospects is the number of accountants signed-up to work remotely with customers of accounting.waveaps.com or quickfile.co.uk or Xero or whatever online software people use (<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">more about online accounts software for free in the UK here</a>). The first site - waveapps - lets you search for accountants by region. Only four of their accountants based in Northern Ireland, so something prevents unemployed accountancy graduates from doing online accounts for Waveapps customers. Maybe the problem is searching by area - maybe other software lets customers search at random or by price, and works better for Northern Ireland accounts graduates. Or not.<br />
<br />
One thing in favour of accountancy courses is that the students are less bored than economics students.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - <span style="color: red;">the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures</span> - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013 </span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">the worst UK degree course for getting a job</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Graduates who are not part of the labour market, like people in prison who do distance-learning degrees in <a href="http://www.studyastronomy.com/">astronomy</a> come bottom of the unistats list because they put <i>"other"</i> as their occupation. The figures are bad at reporting other courses with a distance-learning element, like the cheap courses at Derby and Staffordshire Unis, because a lot of graduates write <i>"other"</i> on their forms. Even product designers from Derby.<br />
<br />
The worst degrees for wanting a job and not getting one are hospitality and tourism courses at University of East London at Stratford. An update, accessed in 2017, is on <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007144FT-SD0412/">https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007144FT-SD0412/</a> and shows better figures.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name-="" say="" title="A degree in hospitality management from UEL will open the door to a wide range of career opportunities anywhere in the world. We’ll provide the knowledge and insight, but you have to bring ambition and personal qualities to make the most of your opportunities with us. Hospitality demands excellent customer service and good people skills, which you can develop through work experience during the course or a placement year in industry, if you choose that option. So where could a degree in hospitality management take you? The possibilities include: • The hotel and accommodation industry • Restaurants, bars and related businesses, such as catering companies • Food and drink manufacturers • Airlines, cruise ships and other transport providers With this degree you could end up working in the tourism or events industries. You’ll have a range of transferable skills, including project and people management, customer service, organisational skills and financial/accounting ability. Most people who take this course are keen to pursue a career in a related field, but you may decide you want to take the knowledge you gain into another area entirely or start your own business. It’s your call. ">They say...</a><i><br />
</i><br />
<div class="sc-course-summary__text-container js-responsive"><i>Hospitality is a growth industry, employing 1.9 million people in the UK alone. Our BA (Hons) Hospitality Management degree will give you a head start in forging a career in this dynamic, exciting sector.<br />
<br />
We began the course in 2013 in response to high demand for a first-class education in hospitality to complement our popular courses in events management and tourism management.<br />
<br />
In your first year, we’ll give you a broad understanding of the culture, leisure and creative industries. Then, in your second and third years, you’ll be able to specialize, with a wide-ranging choice of modules.<br />
<br />
The course will prepare you for all aspects of the hospitality business - managing people, resources and events, as well as mastering the marketing, finance and innovation areas of the industry. Graduates with the knowledge and skills gained on this course are in demand in hotels, restaurants, clubs, cruise liners, airlines, casinos and anywhere else where hospitality skills are valued throughout the world.<br />
<br />
To boost your career chances, we run a dedicated employ-ability programme for business and law students, called Employ. It includes employ -ability workshops, skills training sessions, guest speaker events, voluntary work, student ambassador roles and work experience opportunities.</i><br />
<br />
Other bad degrees for job-seekers include a lot with "fine art" in the title, and those in related departments with averaged-together statistics like the photography and product design graduates of University of Derby, who paid £6,750 a year part-time. Half the product designers put <i>"other"</i> as an occupation, which I don't understand - maybe it's a placement working somewhere, or maybe they're designing a product. This looks like a degree that I'd quite like to do if I wanted to do a degree, but I don't understand what graduates do next.<br />
<br />
Salford's physics degree has 60% of recent graduates clearly unemployed in 2015 and most of the rest doing admin jobs or ones not related to physics.<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007156FT-S_P_F">https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/employment/10007156FT-S_P_F</a><br />
<br />
I think there's a pattern of degrees studying shorthand formulae leading nowhere, except, if you find maths a form of meditation, towards teaching the next generation. Each letter of algebraic shorthand on the wall of a lecture theatre might match one penny off the average salary of last year's graduates, and I hope someone does an MA to test that theory. This is dispute a <a href="http://www.ulster.ac.uk/ucu/Documents/degreesofdecline_nov06_1.pdf">rapid decline in studying of pure maths and science degrees</a> that might be addressed by <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/q-step">The Nuffield Foundation's q-step</a> and taxpayer cash. <br />
<br />
Petroleum engineering graduates did not strike oil near Portsmouth, which leads to the next question.</div></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - <span style="color: red;">the worst UK degree course for getting a job</span> - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">least helped at freelancing: a question not asked for degree course league tables</span></h3><blockquote><fieldset>Freelancing doesn't get mentioned as a way for recent graduates to earn money, which is a pity because, age 20-something, nobody cares that you have just come out of a university, they just care that you haven't done the job before, so you end up doing odd jobs like shifts for employers that need shift workers or anything you can find. A system that helped graduates to risk freelancing, with supervision to catch mistakes, would be great for the ones who are qualified to do something specific. Maybe a rota by which graduates could try to do freelance jobs that came-in to a college or students' union scheme. I might even hire a graduate economist to tell my why Oxford Economics statements about London Fashion Week are wrong.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/find-out-more/about-the-data/#delhe" target="_blank">Job stats are self-reported by about 80% of students</a>; more objective guides by year and state are very general <a href="http://www.slc.co.uk/media/5365/slcosp012013.pdf">http://www.slc.co.uk/media/5365/slcosp012013.pdf</a> <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26688018" target="_blank">Government projections</a> suggest that only 45% of students will earn much over the £21,000 threshold for long enough to repay all their student loans; too many will earn below that figure, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom" target="_blank">which is in the middle of the wage range</a>, for too long to repay the grant that becomes a loan if you earn over that wage.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - <span style="color: red;">least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses</span> - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked for degree league tables</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><b><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007854FT-W232/ReturnTo/Search" target="_blank">The worst-paid pot graduates</a></b> are worth a mention because there's a Staffordshire theme to this post and the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">economics</a> one. Cardiff pot graduates award 38% for clarity and satisfaction while earning a £13,000 graduate salary. I guess a second problem after teaching a technical course is tooling. As a graduate you can't afford a hydraulic press and mould, you wouldn't have anywhere to put it, and you are no longer allowed to use the college one. Small workshops are hard to find. If you rented one, you'd have to sell as well as make just to pay the rent, which is too many jobs to do at once. That could explain another sad fact that the best paid pot graduates weren't anywhere near the factories. <b><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10006299FT-SSTK-00506/ReturnTo/Search" target="_blank">Staffordshire Uni pot graduates earn £17,000</a></b> in an area of low housing costs while the oddballs who study it with an arts subject at Bath Spa, or at University of the Arts in London, earn a bit more. There is no moulding machine to borrow in London but there is <a href="http://createspacelondon.org/">Createspacelondon.org</a> , which might get one in future. I guess that access to a moulding machine makes a big difference to the wages of a potter. Lower housing costs in the potteries might balance-out the higher graduate wages in Bath and London but I still think there's a problem for technical graduates who don't have a ceramics factory or a steel works or a ship yard or a car body press or even a welding torch or a night a week at a restaurant or a day a week on a stall to test their ideas and prove they can do the job.<br />
<br />
The problem could be solved by making sure that machine time, restaurant time, stall time, is available by the hour or by the shift somewhere near the college, just as there ought to be some self-help system for graduate freelancers.<br />
<br />
A course on animal behaviour looks like a bad idea, because anyone could get an animal to do it more cheaply and perhaps better.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - <span style="color: red;">least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked</span> - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="http://web.science.mq.edu.au/~wardle/Personal/fish.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://web.science.mq.edu.au/~wardle/Personal/fish.gif" title="Cartoon by Mark Wardle, physics teacher. This was on one of the office doors when I was at college" /></a></div><a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10003678FT-NBS2009NJFMAWBUS/ReturnTo/Search" target="_blank">10 financial mathematics and business studies graduates were 92% bored</a>, 36% clarified, and only 27% advised or supported, and had to try not to be jealous of interested economics students studying yards away at the same address. This is quoted student feedback on the maths course, from the colleges Orwellian web site.<br />
<br />
<i>"As a university, it was a high ranked university in my field. I found the course very well organised and structured, staff and lecturers were always being very helpful and friendly. ... Finally, as a student who has being in Kingston University for eight years, I can say that I am very happy and glad to be here and if I could go back in time, I would have made the same choices again "</i> - quote from a graduate. <br />
<br />
The quote doesn't mention that this graduate is now a teacher on the course: <i>"Teaching Assistant / Demonstrator, Faculty of Science, Engineering and Computing, Kingston University, London. Provide support during Laboratory Sessions and tutorials, prepare necessary material, support students, any other related work assigned by Module Leader."</i><br />
The college management may be Orwellian but they have learnt that university league tables for economics are important, and so decided not to put <i>"economics"</i> in the title of this awful course.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/">One of the most interesting-looking economics courses is held a few yards away at the same college and is 85% interesting even to Kingston university students</a></h3><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">There's more about economics teaching on another post - about how it often goes wrong and why this course looks worth a shot of you think of the subject as a bit like politics but more specific.</a><br />
<br />
Shall I go off the point?<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">There was another good science course I did called Nuffield Physics A level. I didn't realise that other science teaching is just awful and that nobody cares. In Nuffield Physics A level, we discovered patterns of events by ourselves with weights and springs and things. Nuclear physics was a bit difficult, but the Nuffield Foundation has commissioned some special polystyrene ping pong balls the rights size so that we can pretend to discover nuclear physics using microwaves more easily than the likes of Rutherford did a few years ago. Frankly the teacher had to help us a bit with nuclear physics. And schools don't like teaching it because of the cost of the ping pong balls. But it was good. No greek shorthand and laws discovered by geniuses needed. No need for traditional physics teaching to continue at all, but apparently it survived because cheaper in ping pong balls and I doubt the Nuffield exam is available any more. The Nuffield Foundation is still going and it looks as though they've had a grant to write teaching materials for economists.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/q-step">http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/q-step</a></blockquote><blockquote>The only discouraging thing is that one of their collaborators is Glasgow University, which has a 45% score for "staff made the subject interesting" on economics courses, so their great physics A-level may be better than their 21st-century statistics teaching.<br />
<br />
Anyway, that was interesting so it can't be good for us. We are here to learn about boring things because they must be good for us if they are boring.</blockquote><br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007796FT-BSEGSEE/ReturnTo/Search">Electronics engineering at Leicester</a>. is the second most boring course at 20%, so it must be second best for us after the first most boring degree course, dispite a good footwear degree in Leicester and cheap housing. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007858FT-502E/ReturnTo/Search">Events Management</a> at University of Wales comes third at 21% satisfactory or interesting - <i>"This exciting programme prepares students for a career in the rapidly expanding Events Management Industry"</i> , says the web site. The course is better for job prospects than Tourism or Hospitality at University of East London; 95% of graduates are employed within a year, but at salaries around £16,000.<br />
<br />
Nearby at Swansea University there was an 80% interesting Economics course, run by their School of Management, with graduate wages around £20,000.<br />
<br />
The college states that it <a href="http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/questions-raised-over-swansea-university-7529156">no longer fiddles figures</a> and no longer <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-33651707" title=" Associate Dean and Professor at Warwick Business School; Head of Department and Professor of Marketing at Cranfield School of Management, and earlier the Sir Julian Hodge Chair in Marketing and Strategy at Cardiff Business School. Visiting appointments have included: Texas Christian University; the University of California, Berkeley; the Fuqua School of Business, Duke University; Columbia Business School; and the Aalto School of Business, Finland. He has worked with managers and business students in the USA, Africa, the Far East and Europe, and with many blue-chip companies. He has written extensively in the strategic marketing field where recent books include Strategic Marketing, 10th ed. with David Cravens (Mcgraw-Hill/Irwin, New York) and Market-Led Strategic Change: Transforming the Process of Going to Market, 4th ed. (Routledge). His recent research has been in the area of strategic marketing and the strategic sales function. Recent books in this area include Strategic Customer Management: Strategizing the Sales Organization with Nikala Lane (Oxford: Oxford University Press) and the Oxford Handbook of Strategic Selling and Sales Management, edited with David Cravens and Ken Fitzhugh (Oxford, Oxford University Press). He has published around 300 articles and chapters, and his research has appeared in the Journal of Marketing, the Journal of the Academy of Marketing Science, the Journal of Personal Selling & Sales Management, the Journal of World Business, and the British Journal of Management, among others. He was the first academic in his field to be awarded the Higher Doctorate of DLitt for his research and publications. ">employs mad professor Piercy</a>, who in turn hired his son and spouse to teach, and photographed them next to a symbol of a political party in order to gain alliances. He was interesting for the wrong reasons; this is politics or psychology, not management science. You would expect a rational manager to be interested in students, teachers, and <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">benchmarks at least as clear as the standard ones copied at the end of this other blog post</a> for each subject. You would expect a manager to give or take job security, student places, and degrees in some fair and graded way, rather than fiddling the figures. An external examiner wrote in 2014 that this had been discovered in an earlier visit, but <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/ReviewsAndReports/Documents/Swansea%20University/Swansea-University-IR-Wales-14.pdf">an official report published on the quango web</a> site doesn't mention fiddled exam results or bullied staff.<br />
<br />
<i>"The University's award-winning approach to staff recognition and development seeks to recognise accomplished teaching and the promotion of student learning. The Academic Career Pathways, aligned to the UK Professional Standards Framework, distinguish career progression routes based on teaching and management from those based on teaching and research, defining core and enhanced criteria at every grade.There is a progression path to professorial level for staff whose main focus is teaching and scholarship and management and student support. External examining is also a criterion for promotion. This approach is clearly understood by staff who value the evidence-based approach to promotion and the flexibility to redirect their career pathway over time."</i><br />
<br />
The reality of how Professor Piercey operated was different. <i>"The Piercys vowed to drag the school into the 21st century"</i>, where it already was. Professor Nigel Piercey's memo stated that the job <i>"is not a rest home for refugees from the 1960s, with their ponytails and tie-dyed T-shirts"</i>; in a blog post he described trades unionists, including staff he line-managed, as <i>"unpleasant and grubby little people"</i> distinguished only by their <i>“sad haircuts, chewed fingernails and failed careers”</i>. Only after loosing thirty staff, including one who said her office was cleared without consultation and her name removed from the college web site while she was teaching a course of 200 students, did he state he had <i>"reached the position where I have differences with the university regarding implementation of the school’s future strategy"</i>.<br />
<br />
You would think that the people who hire and fire quango managers would ask them whether they can judge colleagues by ability to do the job as defined by documents like benchmark standards but no: life is not like that.<br />
<br />
They quote:<br />
<i>"The thing I liked best about my course was the variety... My degree taught me essential skills such as ... how to think analytically. ... Before I started at Swansea I had no clue what to expect, but it was beyond what I could dream of."</i></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - <span style="color: red;">the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students</span> - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job?</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>I don't know. There are two Piercys, father and son, and they left-off the "mad" bit of their names when applying to work at Swansea University. Instead they sent-in CVs so full of success that you wonder if they had ever failed at anything, and why they did so many different things if each succeeded. Members of the Welsh Assembly also wondered why Nigel Piercy wasn't sacked sooner. <a href="http://www.swansea.ac.uk/personnel/equal-opportunities/events/inspiringwomen/week1/hilarylappin-scott/">The line manager was called Hilary Lapin-Scott and is still working for Swansea University</a>.<br />
<br />
This is the CV of <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20131006141138/http://www.swansea.ac.uk/staff/som/academic-staff/n.f.piercy" title="
Associate Dean and Professor at Warwick Business School;
Head of Department and Professor of Marketing at Cranfield School of Management, and earlier the
Sir Julian Hodge Chair in Marketing and Strategy at Cardiff Business School. Visiting appointments have included:
Texas Christian University; the
University of California,
Berkeley; the
Fuqua School of Business,
Duke University;
Columbia Business School; and the
Aalto School of Business, Finland.
He has worked with managers and business students in the USA, Africa, the Far East and Europe, and with many blue-chip companies. He has written extensively in the strategic marketing field where recent books include
Strategic Marketing, 10th ed. with David Cravens (Mcgraw-Hill/Irwin, New York) and
Market-Led Strategic Change: Transforming the Process of Going to Market, 4th ed. (Routledge). His recent research has been in the area of strategic marketing and the strategic sales function. Recent books in this area include
Strategic Customer Management: Strategizing the Sales Organization with Nikala Lane (Oxford: Oxford University Press) and the
Oxford Handbook of Strategic Selling and Sales Management, edited with David Cravens and Ken Fitzhugh (Oxford, Oxford University Press). He has published around 300 articles and chapters, and his research has appeared in the
Journal of Marketing, the
Journal of the Academy of Marketing Science, the
Journal of Personal Selling & Sales Management, the
Journal of World Business, and the
British Journal of Management, among others.
He was the first academic in his field to be awarded the Higher Doctorate of DLitt for his research and publications.
">Mad Professor Nigel Piercy</a>. This is mad <a href="https://cronfa.swan.ac.uk/Author/Home?author=Piercy%2C+Niall">Niall Piercy</a>.<br />
Neither CV says they ran a stall or a business - or not near the top of the CV anyway - it goes on a bit and I haven't read the whole thing. It's worrying because so many quango managers have done masters of public administration courses before becoming unfit bosses in public-funded organisations.<br />
<br />
More generally, management science graduates are below-average at getting jobs after graduation, suggesting that management science training by people who are not in business is unhelpful. I hope that there is more employee-involvement in decision-making in large organisations in future, so that the next generation of mad professors gets found-out sooner in their careers.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - <span style="color: red;">Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job?</span> - Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span> </fieldset></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013</span></h3><blockquote><table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="height: 438px;"><tbody> </tbody><caption align="BOTTOM">Employment by subject source: <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-BgasoZczS9To942CI9kv2mgOxSQbNL8ndWO799056M/edit?hl=en_US">Guardian, 2011</a></caption> <tbody>
<tr> <td>Medicine & dentistry and veterinary science</td> <td align="RIGHT">99.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="17">Education</td> <td align="RIGHT">95.0</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Subjects allied to medicine</td> <td align="RIGHT">94.3</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Law</td> <td align="RIGHT">92.7</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Agriculture & related subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">91.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Biological sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">91.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Languages</td> <td align="RIGHT">90.9</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>All subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">90.4</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Historical & philosophical studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">90.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Social studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.8</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Mathematical sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Combined subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Physical sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Business & administrative studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">88.9</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Creative arts & design</td> <td align="RIGHT">88.2</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Architecture, building, and planning</td> <td align="RIGHT">87.8</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Engineering & technology</td> <td align="RIGHT">87.7</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Mass communications & documentation</td> <td align="RIGHT">86.0</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Computer science</td> <td align="RIGHT">84.7</td></tr>
</tbody></table></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="height: 438px;"><tbody> </tbody><caption align="BOTTOM">Employment by subject source may be re-hashed in a slightly different way: Forbes, 2013</caption> <tbody>
<tr> <td>Medicine & dentistry and veterinary science</td> <td align="RIGHT">90.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="17">Education</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.8</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Subjects allied to medicine</td> <td align="RIGHT">88.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Law</td> <td align="RIGHT">67.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Agriculture & related subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">71.2</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Biological sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">69.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Languages</td> <td align="RIGHT">68.9</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>All subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">90.4</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Historical & philosophical studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">65.9</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Social studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">75.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Mathematical sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">89.6</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Combined subjects</td> <td align="RIGHT">67.5</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Physical sciences</td> <td align="RIGHT">63.9</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Business & administrative studies</td> <td align="RIGHT">80.1</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Creative arts & design</td> <td align="RIGHT">77.7</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Architecture, building, and planning</td> <td align="RIGHT">85.0</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Engineering & technology</td> <td align="RIGHT">77.2</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Mass communications & documentation</td> <td align="RIGHT">80.0</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Computer science</td> <td align="RIGHT">75.7</td></tr>
</tbody></table><span style="font-size: x-small;">Star courses: the least satisfied, most bored & lowest-paid UK graduates - the course that got 0%: the worst degree in the UK - the least satisfied graduates in the UK who give figures - the least remembered course - the lowest paid graduates in the UK who give figures - the worst UK degree course for getting a job - least helped at freelancing: a question not asked about degree courses - least access to tools and clusters after graduation: a question not asked - the most bored students in the UK can sit close to the most interested students - Management science question: who gave Mad Professor Piercy the job? - <span style="color: red;">Graduates employment or further study by broad subject, 2011 and 2013 </span></span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Which university league table is most reliable?</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Unistats is much the most reliable league table for comparing the courses you want by the criteria you want. The Times, Guardian, and Complete University Guide fiddle the figures, or weight the figures, against good courses at bad colleges and in favour of bad courses in good colleges. They iron-out the oddities so that their university ranking looks tidy and random changes year-to-year don't make too much difference. The result is the opposite of what a student would want. If you want to go to a terrible course at a sought-after college, you should do it deliberately and not discover your decision, as I did, while sitting in the lecture theatre.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">the next post will be about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">simple book-keeping and account aggregator<span style="color: black;">s</span></a></span></span></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">the previous post was about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="post crash economics teaching and Keele University during a manufacturing crisis in the 1980s">post-crash economics teaching, and the manufacturing crash caused by monetary policy that killed a fifth of UK manufacturing in five years without the professor at my college noticing</a>. We were in a manufacturing area at Keele and there were 4 million people unemployed including about a million on government schemes. I don't know why he thought we'd turned-up to spend years of our lives as students. His first job was lecturing in insurance to people seconded to a college from work, so I suppose he didn't ask himself much why students were in front of him. </blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Problems with unistats</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">I overheard part of a conversation about this in a restaurant. I went something like <i>"all it reveals is that people are doing their job. Most of the top ranking colleges on league tables are only a tiny fraction away from each other in feedback scores". "Of course there is a long tail, with one or two colleges failing. Blackburn is one".</i><br />
<br />
Moving on a stage, here are some answers even if they don't make the world better.</span></span> </blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Most of the work of form-filling is done for college managers rather than for the national student survey. If they have a rational reason, it is to anticipate bad scores before they reach the national survey too often, and to avoid hiring badly-scoring teachers. It would be nice if there was a way to do less form-filling for proven teachers, but that's a job for college managers to sort. They also have to sort the problem of students giving over-loyal or over-critical feedback, and of teachers dumbing-down a class rather than risk telling students that they are wrong, or thick, or lazy. I don't have a clear answer for this </li>
</ul></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Exaggerated differences between good-enough colleges are a feature of league tables in The Times and The Guardian. It's a silly idea. The tiny difference between two colleges might not apply to particular courses at the colleges, and, if it really is a difference, is probably outweighed by things like whether the rent is lower in Leicester than Westminster. The problem is already being solved by colleges promoting Unistats' own web site, which deals with these points. It compares courses rather than colleges. And if gives some kind of score rather than a rank, so you can see that most of the colleges are about as good as each other. So, if you are a teacher and someone asks you about Unistats in a restaurant, tell them to avoid league tables and look for a nice course on Unistats' own web site, bearing in mind that most score pretty well.</li>
</ul></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Most of the worst-scoring courses have changed or ceased because of the survey. I went on one that was something to do with social services, for people who were working in that trade. Similar to the Early Years course at Blackburn. It was labelled as a Leeds University diploma but turned-out to be Leeds College of Health, also known as the asylum there, with various consultants marking essays, and nurses answering the phone. People very much like the ones taking the course. The problem was that consultants could be unreasonable, irrational, pigheaded, and know that the embarrassed nurse would have to cover-up for them. Even while I was on the course it began to break-down; staff left without replacement. It might have closed even sooner if the first group of students had been able to warn the second.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Related posts</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/httpswwwgovukgovernmentconsultationspro.html">ukgovernmentconsultations - migration advisory committee call for evidence on the effect of international students</a><br />
International students' effect on providers in expensive areas who provide the worst courses<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset></blockquote><br />
<br />
</li>
</ul></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Mona from Life Enhancement</span></h3><blockquote>Afterthought<br />
I wrote<br />
<i>More about this <a href="https://www.blogger.com/veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">forgettable economics teacher on another post about Keele Economics teaching when there were three or four million people unemployed because of a manufacturing crisis in the 1980s</a>. Twenty years later he still hadn't realised that you ask the students what they already know and discover the more obvious material, tell them lots of facts about what they don't already know, then pick a problem and try to solve it with real data and the right button on free software, while explaining a bit of maths to say how the software works. A lot of them mess-up embarrassingly, and get feedback, and that's OK, and students learn how to talk about evidence and disagree. Twenty years later, Fishman had become a better comedian; he liked to interrupt himself with some gleefull thought in class, and he knew his strengths as a paternal-looking character, but he never learnt his job as I saw it. He didn't even hold a tutorial.</i><br />
<br />
After doing a road-to-nowhere degree in another town, I eventually found work in something called the voluntary sector for grant artists, where, once in a blue moon, under-trained and struggling staff are sent for communal <i>"training"</i>, if they're not the temps who most needed training. By the end I used to dread it. Nobody in the room has a clue what works, but everyone pretends they already know. We are formed into small groups of people who have never met from different parts of the organisation usually doing different things, and asked to brainstorm. The first question was often something like <i>"what is it that we do?"</i> and someone in the small group - maybe Mona from Life Enhancement - would say <i>"holistic"</i>. I used to dread the holistic moment. Any sensible person would be struck by how little we know what works and what for, but Mona wants to get a brownie point by saying we do everything for everyone under the sun as <i>"holistic". </i>Sadly or optimistically, she is part-right: people do lots of things and can do lots of things, but don't know lots of other things and fail at other things.</blockquote><hr align="left" /><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">the author</span> sells <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan belts made to order, and Bouncing Boots made in the UK">vegan shoes online at Veganline.com</a></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan belts made to order, and Bouncing Boots made in the UK"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">, a UK online vegan shoe sho<span style="font-family: inherit;">p</span></span></span></span></a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span></span></span></span><a href="http://veganline.com/"></a> </div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-35224880502288416272015-10-23T19:47:00.018+01:002023-03-05T22:30:51.555+00:00boring economics teaching is interesting <div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Looking at the textbook page 440, figure 19.2, do you think the 1979 monetarist policy worked for the UK?</span></h2>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" /> Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" /> Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" /> Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" /> Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" /> Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" /> <i>"We used to believe on Keynsian solutions; now we believe on monetarist solutions"</i> - an economics professor, standing at one end of an economics teaching room at Keele University 1985-7 <input type="checkbox" /> Words fail me</span><br />
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<table border="25" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: left;" width="100%"><a height="auto" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s1600/scan213.jpg" width="100"><img alt="Postwar UK unemployment (excluding school leavers). Graph going off the top of the usual scale from textbook page 440" border="0" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s400/scan213.jpg" title="" width="335" /></a></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
</blockquote>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
</h2>
<h3>
</h3>
<h3>
</h3>
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">It's the mid-eighties. A quarter of the UK workforce is unemployed, sick, or on a scheme like The Community Programme or Youth Opportunities. This is an Economics degree course at a midlands university called Keele, which has lost a third of its budget on ministerial whim. Radical economic policies have closed a fifth of UK manufacturing in five years - the main part which is private sector, and the part of that that's good at exporting. The radical economic policy was to fiddle the exchange rate upwards by paying too much for government debt. Investors converted their currencies to buy the pay-too-much government debt so the pound rose and exporting became unfairly harder.<br />
<br />
The governing party takes PR advice from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Pottinger">Bell Pottinger</a>'s founder & thrives on provocation against <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOx8q3eGq3g">scapegoats</a> , as read-out at a party conference by Peter Lilly MP.</span></h3>
<div>
<h3 style="color: black;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">As the treasury closes the private sector by fiddling exchange rates, the government is scared to close the remaining public sector jobs, paid from borrowed money as this shrinking private economy pays less tax; the government runs-up a huge debt. It doesn't dare cause even more employment by closing-down services like Keele completely. So there are still 3,000 students and a few tutors: some students get a chance to ask a question of the great man, the Professor of Economics.</span></span></h3>
<span style="color: red;"> </span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Some people would think this controversial. Including the ones who have persuaded search engines (I think I can prove) that this is a page designed to defame one person, and so not suitable for listing even though it gets a lot of views anyway. I may be wrong but the person they have in mind is not a Thatcher economist or successor from the Bank of England, but a 60-odd in 1980-something in a V-neck pullover and tweed with non-standard private opinions and an impressive past - more impressive than his economics teaching. Although his course had 40 weeks and glum-looking students where other courses had maybe 100 weeks and keen students, and a higher staff ratio, so this was a mundane situation.<br /><br />He pulls these anecdotes about bad economics teaching together.<br /><br />He shows the problem in the end because he had worked n places where critical thinking and evidence and discussion get a tutor the sack, as he discovered after a teach-in protest at the University of Califorinia in the McArthy era, He tried working as s docker, then at the least applied-for university in the USA, and finally got a chance to play-safe at a larger Uni before going to the UK on a sabbatical from which he could not return. <br /><br />This pattern continues. People have to work in Hong Kong or Turkey or all kinds of places where free thought gets tutors the sack, and these people deserve respect and sympathy but not a right to control the syllabus.<br /><br />So, if you are a lawyer funded by Keele Uni or a relative of this man or whoever you are, please get in tough with me directlyrather than trying to keep this site secret.<br /><br /></li><li>Some students would want to know how to argue back against conventional ideas, getting clarity, exposing failures, suggesting alternatives. Rather than just campaign against the cuts in a partisan kind of way which doesn't suggest alternatives. There was no need for maths, and anyway there were cheap PCs around that could to the maths. The need was for critical thinking, ideas, ability to look-up facts, and maybe rules of thumb about what works.<br />
</li>
<li>Some students looked resigned to a boring course. I suppose their careers advice was a bit like mine - worse than useless - and some were mis-led to believe economics degrees a trade qualification, to suffer & pass with patience and economy. Like a Corgi gas-fitters qualification or a B-ed. or accountancy or social work or shorthand or law society membership. The mistake was easier to make at the time, because more peoples' parents were used to careers of stable jobs for employers, obtained with CVs and interviews and maybe - just possibly - the one line on the CV that said something like "degree in Economics and English at Keele, 1984-1987, and Foundation Year 1983". </li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><i>"They said that you were easily-led, and they were half-right" <br />
[The Smiths - <a href="https://www.bing.com/search?q=Reel+Around+the+Fountain+lyric&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=reel+around+the+fountain+lyric&sc=2-30&sk=&cvid=1A33C0B4A6BC4E7FB1F9A6ECAA265E0D">Reel Around the Fountain, lyric</a>, 1983]</i><br /><a href="https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1983-02-22a.806.2#g838.4">The local MP quoted an estimate in parliament that year.</a> It was an estimate that 20,000 of 50,000 workers in the pottery industry had lost their jobs. This stuff was reported in the small print of big papgers, but it was possible, if you read the newspapers, to believe that a much smaller proportion of the workforce was made redundant, and the cause was not fiddled exchange-rates but some sort of efficiency-drive that involved shrinking the public sector.<br />
<br />
Wikipedia still puts that view, quoting unemployment as I think 17% because it leaves-out the government employment schemes and the thirteen tweaks to the statistics, such as not counting anyone over 60. Nowadays you can google numbers on The Community Programme and Youth Opportunities from statements to parliament in Hansard, but at the time they were harder to find, just as official statistics for the time are still hard to find as they pre-date the current series. Some students might have believed the newspapers but there was still a figure of three million officially unemployed. Even these students must have but wondered: isn't it rather a lot?</li>
</ul>
So various overlapping groups of students were sat at desks, ready to start talking to each other and learning to solve economic problems with expert help and all the tools and data that a university can provide and then maybe, with skills learned that way, some would be better at arguing-back against economic arguments. Maybe if they worked with money after study, this would be good practice. It might even help them get a job. The local MP had quoted something about employment in the "Stoke on Trent Travel to Work Area", which is how I found the quote. It's in the title of a bit of research that Keele's Department of Economics and Management Science was funded to do, so we had some of the figures sitting in the college office next door I suppose.<br />
<br />
Oh, here is the full link for Bell Pottinger:<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Pottinger#Exposure_of_plans,_and_resulting_disgrace">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Pottinger#Exposure_of_plans,_and_resulting_disgrace</a><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Digression on Peter Lilley<br />
In later life I sometimes dealt with tenants as rep for a bureaucracy. Tenants have more paternal law than freeholders; their boilers have to be checked in ways that freeholders would find odd..</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are laws to stop a law-abiding landlord going into a tenant's flat to check gas safety, even with reasonable steps taken.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
On another web page, the Gas Safety Regulations, signed by Peter Lilley, require landlords to go-in with a rare qualified plumber and check the draw on the boiler, which is done by lighting a <span style="background-color: yellow;">fag</span> in front of it and seeing which way the smoke goes. The draft I read was signed by Peter Lilley, although a quick search finds a minister called <a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2451/signature/made">Allan Meale</a> signing-off.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There is no reasonableness clause about tenants who do not want you to send the worlds' cheapest plumber in, just to light a fag in front of their boiler. Maybe the tenant doesn't like that sort of thing, just as most freeholders wouldn't like it. Maybe the tenant is hard to deal with, or out long-hours working as a plumber because of the shortage.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
If you asked enough MPs why they do the job, a lot would put the hope of being a minister on their list, but when they finally get the chance they don't seem good at the job or able to do it at all in this case. </blockquote>
</div>
<h3>
<span style="color: red;"> </span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="">Chapter One: <br />
<br />
Some headings often applied to the UK in the 1980s</span></h3>
<hr />
<br />
I am not quite sure where these headings come from; I absorbed them from somewhere. Probably TV, newspapers, and the first half of Evan Davis' <i>Made in Britain</i> book. I read it up to the point where he said it was <i>"irrational"</i> to make M&S clothing in a democracy with a good human rights record and a social insurance system - a country called the UK where he and his readers live. I got too cross with him to enjoy reading any more. Expert economists are like that; they can be ignorant and irritating however nice and approachable they are face-to-face. On TV, I watched a program called "The 80s" by Dominic Sandford and I think I managed to watch it to the end before talking back to the telly rather embarassingly, or anything of that kind.<br />
<br />
<h3>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-weight: normal;">Finance and North Sea Oil</span></b></span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Technically, turnover in the economy stopped shrinking after the first quarter of 1980 as North Sea Oil and financial services added some numbers. That is the official economic history, easy to find. But if you are a human you can't earn a living as a piece of oil, and you wouldn't want to work selling payment protection insurance or private pensions now that people are allowed to contract-out of the state earnings related pension scheme. My dad tried it. You really wouldn't. It was meant to be more efficient than the ministry system because half the first one or two year's subscription went to a sales rep, calling on prospect after prospect in hope of one or two sales a year. Private insurance is like that - there's a lot of margin for sales and admin. "Because" was sarcastic. It was the same for car insurance and if anyone knows how to look-up the figures for the current online system, it's still probably expensive. <br />
<br />
Officially there was also something called a big bang by which buyers and sellers were allowed to be the same person while acting fairly for outsiders - I never really understood it, but the system that failed on Lloyds insurance was something like that, a system by which insiders made commission at the expense of outsiders like Lloyds names by buying and selling things to each other round the office. Then they stopped taking-on new names as insurance underwriters; they are too ashamed and the system was too broken. So, if you are dead posh and your relatives own a stately home, they can no longer pledge its value as Lloyds names to get money. There isn't a scheme for other people to join-in either. It is a dead scheme, but the Big Bang was a good thing officially, despite what happened next.</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">The growth of services in the economy</span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;">Sales reps and servants</span></span><br />
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">You wouldn't want to work providing services for the those who work in finance either, selling them cars & coffees, consumer goods & powders. The conventional idea is that there was something called a Big Bang in which buyers and sellers in some city institutions could be the same person, more or less, in the name of efficiency while handling your pension. This was meant to lead to a huge growth in financial services. A Keele graduate mentions what happened in his book, <a href="http://www.priceoffish.info/">The Price of Fish</a>. People expected a surge in commuting on London Transport, like a big wave at peak times. It turned out to be a rising tide, spread over 24 hours. Some of the new jobs provided highly-paid financial services to the world round the clock. Some of the new jobs were shift-work to provide coffee or hotels or homeless hostels and even alcohol services. I did some of them. In Liverpool, there was no longer a rush-hour at all.</span><br />
<br />
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;">Pointless prices </span></span><br />
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Maybe economists can come-up with some measure of how pointless an economy seems to those who work in it, and compare with some other measures of efficiency. <br />
<br />
I thought at the time there should be a survey of how much more people pay for a new fridge, compared to the price of a reconditioned fridge that does the same thing. The premium is paid for brand and newness over a price paid for a well-specified good that's not quite new and not quite branded. <br />
<br />
Shopkeepers have a similar idea called the <i>advertised brand</i>, such as Dulux paint, which is presumably also good for opacity and paintability, and sells for more than own-brand or un-advertised brand such as Johnson's paint which might be just as good. In the world of paint, we also suffer from a lack of decent technical information about opacity and paintability at the point of sale, so I suppose we consumers can't be completely blamed for paying too much for advertised brands, even though it is pretty silly and some of us consumers have got more money than sense - proving that markets don't work very well. I expect it us university vice chancellors on their vast salaries and stolen pensions that buy Dulux paint, alongside people with very little money who get into debt because they lack education and believe that it must be better because it sells more in a fair market.<br />
<br />
At the time there was an emergency payment available for people on benefits who had nothing but an empty room and a small giro cheque. The payment was for a certain list of things - cooker, bed, fridge, sleeping-bag. The same kind of idea as a food bank. I forget how it worked - maybe it was something to do with vouchers claimable at shops that were part of the scheme of somethiing like that.<br />
<br />
There was case law in benefits tribunals about over-charging or under-delivering, to say whether a Arga at Harrods or a scrap cooker at the dump set the price. The case law said that payment shoul pay for "reconditoned" appliances, with increasing detail I guess about what a "recondioned" cooker or fridge meant, carefully read by shopkeepers who recycled white goods.<br />
<br />
The difference in price between a reconditioned fridge or cooker, and a new, branded fridge or cooker to the same standard could be called a credulity index or stupidity index. As the economy goes well, more and more people buy the advertised brands at full price. Then, in a recession, people have to buy whatever is available. Somewhere in between lies a good judgement about how much to pay for white goods, and it is probably the amount specified by tribunal case law about what "reconditioned" means. From the seller's point of view, there is the concept to the advertised brand as well. I remember being told that Tredair boots were worth trying to sell for double cost price +VAT, while advertised brands like Doc Martens sold for a bit more.</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;">Pointless jobs</span></span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">This was the time when people invented pointless jobs like the bar job of asking <i>"what table are you sitting at?"</i> to someone not yet sitting at a table, and then bringing-over some warm soup, crockery and cutlery, fifteen minutes later<br />
<br />
Funny how times don't change. A generation or two earlier, there were green baize doors between paid and family areas of a large household in a big house, there were larger proportions of the population in one sort of institution or another from firms to nunneries to council institutions called workhouses to army regiments to a strange world of church army institutions for unmarried mothers - loads of people depended on institutions. Boarding schools were common. Each of these would have their internal rules, a bit like the rule that says that someone from the bar has to come-over and ask <i>"how is your soup?"</i></span></h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">The traditional pub system was to serve anything serve-able in a pint glass that took under a minute to pour -<i>slurp</i> - and that system could have been extended beyond beer and peanuts to soup or microwavable products. Ideally there would be a microwave and pressure-cooker combined for larger pub snacks and a range of nozzles for heating pub soup. That didn't happen, but I remember some pointless service jobs disappearing in the 80s. People prioritise better in recessions<br />
<br />
More people went to gigs, paying at the door to get a rubber stamp on their hand. This saved the pointless job of one person selling a ticket and another taking it, tearing it in half, and giving it back again. <br />
<br />
Some of the pointless work of shelf-stacking was saved at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwik_Save">Kwik-Save</a> supermarkets that used to put whole cartons of packets on the shelf and cut-off the side, a technique which only works if you have less choice of each essential product and just stack-up the one or two choices available. Another of their ideas was to let-out space for specialist work like selling fresh veg to fresh veg specialists, as in any other market, leaving the box-shifting and till-queues to be managed by Kwik-Save, who were good at box shifting and till-queues. At <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Fare">Fine Fare</a>, customers served themselves with food out of a sack and weighed it at the checkout. Smaller cornflakes could also be bought in bags, to save the cost of a box. I think they started as over-sized cornflakes but they had broken into small ones by the time you got them home. There were a few shops that tried selling food by the scoop at the time - maybe some of them are still going - a bit like Primark for food. In areas of very high unemployment like Longton, near Keele, these were about the only shops available.<br />
<br />
So some pointless jobs disappeared in the recession-hit areas, I think, but popped-up in greater numbers of pointless jobs where recession hadn't hit, leaving a collection of fairly pointless jobs that barely pay for a bedsit in wealthy areas. A few ranks up the hierarchy are pointless jobs telling the slaves how to behave in news-speak, I think, and this research finds it a common experience: <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2017/jun/20/squaring-the-circle-on-jargon-why-do-we-speak-in-riddles-at-work?">https://www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2017/jun/20/squaring-the-circle-on-jargon-why-do-we-speak-in-riddles-at-work?</a> quoting <a href="https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/12/british-jobs-meaningless">https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/12/british-jobs-meaningless</a>/ and this <a href="https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/g0h77ytkkm/Opi_InternalResults_150811_Work_W.pdf">YouGov survey</a>. The gist of it is in the title - you can read it in the url.<br />
<br />
I vaguely remember the 1980s as the time when pointless jobs were invented, but I could be wrong - a lot of jobs like this were not available yet. I was young and didn't know first-hand how stupid a lot of jobs really are. Technically, the recession was over till the early 90s. Even if the jobs were in the south where they didn't pay housing costs. My brother had a job posting estate agent leaflets through letterboxes. <i>"I don't want them"</i>, people would say. He thought of a good answer after a while. <i>"I don't want them either and I've got a thousand of them"</i>. This kind of job was possible because there was money about, in London property, and there was cheap labour about, as a wave of immigration came from the north of england, scotland and wales to places like London. This wave of immigration was followed later-on by waves from the EU and does something to explain low UK productivity per person: the worse you run an economy, the more cheap labour is around to do pointless jobs.<br />
<br />
About the same time, something was happening in Westminster which I know nothing about, nor about the <a href="http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/10/25/the-liberal-conspiracy-is-coming-to-an-end-in-its-current-form/">blog & blogger</a>. I found it while googling something else it. But it says that the Labour Party ceased to be interested in manufacturing and good manufacturing jobs, according to this link: <a href="http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/12/24/the-labour-partys-city-problem/">http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/12/24/the-labour-partys-city-problem/</a></span></h4>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Closing the Economy to make it more efficient</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There's an online video of a coach party of unemployed South Italians getting off a coach in North Italy to chase, some of them, a single nursing job because unemployment is about 30% among people of their age and gender down south. Why so? The answer is in the crap shitbag goodfornothing string-em-up excuses for economists who the UK government favoured in the 1980s and who continue to influence the Monetary Policy Committee. The assumption, approved by all parties, is that if the economy goes too fast you have to put a spanner in the works to slow it down by raising interest rates. Never mind the problem alongside of consumer debt. Never mind that the economy does not simply sprout-up again next spring. There must be ways of reducing inflation that are better - like making production easier or more co-operative or reducing advertising for bad consumer debt and so reducing demand. There must be ways of reducing the pointless jobs in a boom so that more people get employed in productive jobs and there is less need for inward migration and overcrowding. But economics courses do not even recognise the problem. According the the Bundesbank or the textbook, interest rates so exchange rates must rise if there is a risk of inflation, and those jobseeker buses from South Italy to North Italy continue to run.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I should say for even-handedness that there are other similar policies. The policy of knocking down housing in order to reduce homelessness comes-round again and again, particularly in the UK in the 1969s and 70s, along with knocking down workshops and factories for car-parking space and zoning-out new ones under the planning act. The policy of trying to buy goods from badly-run countries in order to make those countries better-run is similar. It is called Development Studies. </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><span face=""><br />
Digression</span> <span face="">One</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face="">Criticism was taught in English but not Economics</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I don't know if colleges that allow two-subject degrees are keen on English and Economics, but I think that with skill and help from the the top of the organisation, it could be a good combination.</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Students of English have to find something to say about a book, beyond "wow", or "seemed nice". A 1970s version of Keele Foundation Year brought people together on very loose terms for a tutorial, which is a great idea if it gets them acquainted and talking as hoped, but I doubt it did. They'd talk about something like a film or a book, and think of things to say. A tutor who worked at Keele at the time quoted those as an example. <i>"There's not much you can do with 'wow' , or 'I liked Emma' ". </i><br />
<br />
If I wrote an English essay that said something like<i> "The Professor ... seemed nice"</i>, as I have done here, I would have trouble filling the space and showing clarity. I remember the feedback on an essay. <i>"Try to enlarge your critical vocabulary"</i>.<br />
<br />
We English students were on two-subject degrees. We had to think of something to say without time spent on theories of literary criticism, which is time well-saved; we made-up our own checklists of things to say about a book, particularly the beginning and the end which we had read, the points made in lectures or the preface to the Pengion edition, and in my case I found the role of the narrator a good bet, along with the way a group of readers' lacks or hopes at a time in history were fed by book; a book's popularity tells you about its readers.<br />
<br />
To save more time, it became clear that there was one essay to do in a period of time during which we would study three or four authors, and we could get through exams by revising just the authors we had written-about - maybe even reading them all the way through and some of their other books and thinking of one or two different ways of talking about the books that this author wrote. So I would read several books by an author that I was interested in - usually one I liked - and stick to the beginning end and preface of authors I wanted to skip. Unfotunately I ended up writing an essay about Thomas Hardy who is a miserable waste of space and so had to read a few books of his and rehearse ideas and thoughts about why I disliked him, but tutors seemed OK with that; we didn't have to agree that every author was a great author. The journlaist Giles Cohren made a <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/tv-review-passions-i-hate-jane-austen-sky-arts-creator-of-the-modern-novel-or-trite-bore-or-both-a8102901.html">TV program about how much he disliked having to study Jane Austin</a> (twice - at A level and Uni).<br />
<br />
Then, to look posh, we got a nice set of vocabulary from reading Roland Barthes, who wrote about odd things like wrestling matches and came-up with his own jargon to describe them, so he's an easy read and can be slotted into a course like one more author to study. The tutor compared him to a 1950s writer called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Uses_of_Literacy">Richard Hoggart</a>, very similar to the people who get Keele going in the 50s, just to put things in context, and he chose texts to suit the people in his tutorial group when allowed, so we mentioned <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Genet">Jean Ganet</a> I think, and the issue of Eastenders shown that week, as well as the standard courses called <i>"Augustans and Romantics"</i> and <i>"The Victorians"</i> that had run for decades. One of them worked well with an anthology called <i>"Augustans and Romantics"</i>, edited by Bloom and Trilling: <i>"</i></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><i>The purpose of the Oxford Anthology is to provide students with a selective canon of the entire range of English Literature from the beginnings to recent times, with introductory matter and authoritative annotation."</i> I think those courses ended in 1987. <br />
<br />
There were a few other books that would do as critical theory, or as books to read for their own interest - something from Freud; something from Virginia Wolfe and Simone do Beuvoir. I see on my shelf a book called "Introduction to Communication Studies" by Robert Fisk, which I might have read, It has long words that look like "Sausages" but I think are "Semiotics" and I might have read it at the time if I bought a copy, but, generally, theory came after a students' thoughts about original sources like an old book. Theory was a way to help a student develop ideas.<br />
<br />
Looking online for <i>Augustans and Romantics</i>, I learn something new. Harold Bloom was the textbook writing supremo of his time. His name was on anthologies like <i>Romantic Poetry and Prose</i> that are published in New York by Oxford University Press, alongside anthologies of literary criticism for students in the USA who aren't allowed to have their own ideas; they can apply each official literary technique to each author in the official cannon of english literature, which is silly so students in the UK don't do it; that's not a proper university course, but economics departments were usually more constrained.</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I guess there are two economic rules that goes like this: </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Rule One. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The more controversial a subject; the safer the style of teaching. In any decade, there are plenty of countries where economics is taught, but only in the safest way to avoid being sacked to worse - maybe disappearing one night and never being seen again, These teachers are busy writing articles and buying textbooks just like other academics and they effect the way that the subject is taught everywhere.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Rule Two</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The more useful a subject for earning a living; the more useless the students at criticizing. They do not live in the present; they want to get-on with a qualification.. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="height: 139px; width: 489px;"><tbody>
<tr><td height="23" width="14%"><br /></td><td colspan="4">Official schools of thought & critics</td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="4" width="14%">The official<br />
canon of english literature</td> <td height="23" width="19%"><br /></td> <td height="23" width="21%">professor A </td> <td height="23" width="23%">professor B</td> <td height="23" width="23%">professor C</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text A</td> <td colspan="3" rowspan="3">loads of stuff learned by heart for essay deadlines & exams, then forgotten a year later because it has nothing to do with any graduate's life<!--SELECTION--><!--/SELECTION--></td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text B</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text C</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
I suppose there was a hope that if the official list of english history subjects or english literature is taught from the beginning, then students get to know more about the culture they've grown-up in. Slightly smug about it, but well-informed. <br />
<br />
About the time I was at Keele (maybe earlier in other time zones), the emphasis came to include anything people wanted to study, using available tools, and led to the widely-mocked <i>"Media Studies"</i> courses. I have to explain that the title looked cool on a paperback in 1985, because it implied that we could un-pick and get the hang of whatever media we were interested-in, or whatever most people watched and read, or Milton. Take your pick. And that this is some vaccination against what Murdoch or Maxwell or the Radio 1 playlist committee do. We didn't imagine that a media studies paperback and a polytechnic course would lead to a job in the media. Nor prevent it either. It might even help a jobbing journalist or producer enjoy job a bit more and not turn into Alan Partridge (fictional) or the team from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_(TV_programme)"><i>Nationwide</i></a> (real) it, but there is a standard comment made about media studies courses that they are not a trade qualification.<br />
<br />
I don't often see people <i>criticize</i> economics for not leading to a job, which is odd because there is <a href="https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-profiles/economist">no common job called economist</a> and related jobs have <a href="https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/economics">"data" or "accountant"</a> in the job title. An economics degree might help you think about the economy and maybe enjoy some financial jobs more if you do them anyway, but an economics degree is not a trade qualication. There is a connection shown on Unistats between being an economics graduate and having a job that pays very well up to about the age of 40, like finance director. There is an explanation which was very obvious in 1987 which was that a degree was a road to nowhere - to doing whatever you would have done anyway but a few years older and more educated. I guess that people who do economics degrees often know how to study for accountancy exams and get finance director jobs or set-up in business. That didn't mean that the rest of us had any idea - we just studied microecomics diagrams and excercises and the ISLM diagram and a revision class.<br />
<br />
I doubt that many books about the media or criticism suggest that the course will help you get a job, but both my economics textbooks did that - even the loony microeconomics one that didn't mention data and tried to derive one economic rule of thumb from another as though they were laws of physics.<br />
<br />
I have seen a comment made about economics a few times, which is that economics students are not allowed to read a proper book with individual ideas in it. Only textbooks. The specific comment is that the course does not cover Keynes as a book, with all its individuality. Students just get a shorthand diagram called the IS-LM curves by John Hicks, or something similar. I remember a tutor making that comment in 1987 at Keele, and the point is made 30 years later in <a href="http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Economics-Education-and-Unlearning.pdf">http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Economics-Education-and-Unlearning.pdf</a> , page 19. So why are some economists aware of the problem but not able to change the course?</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">I hoped Economics would be a more interesting subject, even if it did attract more management trainees rather than cool people.<br />
<br />
Economics students want to find something to say about an interest, like industrial collapse caused by government, un-affordable housing, apparently pointless jobs, or the strange statements that paid economists make like <i>"Fashion contributes 26 billion pounds to the UK economy"</i>. Or <i>"Heathrow's monopoly on new landing space contributes 26 billion pounds to the UK economy"</i>. Or <i>"Amazon brings 26 billion good jobs to retail", </i>or <i>"26 billion jobs are at risk if we leave Europe"</i>. Or the statements that monetarist macro-economists made about how to manage the UK economy, which I will not dignify with a quote.<br />
<br />
The pattern of debunkable economic claims was as true in the 1980s as later-on. For example the idea the a retailer brings jobs, when, in the retail market, one sale made in one place is likely to balance one sale not made in another place. You can elaborate. Some retailers are based in China and sell on ebay, possibly with a mail treaty that requires Royal Mail customers to pay for the import under some weird postal treaty mentioned in a <i>Times </i> article about Pritti Petel, Keele graduate, but otherwise hard to pin-down.. (Other retailers pay rent, VAT, and share government work by doing a huge amount of book-keeping and scheme-maintaining for the payroll, following employment law, paying liability insurance, and generally dedicating their lives to being a retailer undercut from China. Don't do it is my advice.)<br />
<br />
To say something is pointless is a bit like saying you are against government cuts; it is a bit like saying <i>"wow"</i> or <i>"I liked Emma"</i>. It begs questions that people should be able to unravel a bit further if interested. In the case of pointless jobs, most people who do them have some other option, if not an option that's quite as attractive or that's easy to jump to. And most of the jobs have some kind of private sector demand - the people who buy things that I personally don't, or the people who buy things because the market tends to provide gastro-pubs in a gentrified area with high rents. (Cuts beg questions about why the government doesn't have enough tax money coming-in, what, broadly, government should fund, and whether this particular bit of funding could be organised in other ways). So people who are interested in this kind of stuff ought to be good at un-ravelling the problems and suggesting solutions, but unfortunately, I don't think that economics courses help them do it. <br />
<br />
I had hopes of the models we were taught. I thought that, some time in the course, we would use them as a way-in to discussing a problem like soup or cuts, but I don't remember any way of rehearsing this; we just had lectures, and could choose essays sometimes, and that was it. We also had exercises in how curves should move, and there are a lot of them in the back of the <i>Laidler</i> microeconomics textbook. Laidler writes that economics can be <i>"a way of thinking"</i>, learned from practicing exercises <br />
<br />
The one I studied was more like a statement quoted in the preface to a Carl Rodgers counseling book, which I haven't read, in which he talks about his sudden promotion to professor from being a practitioner. It can work like that in craft subjects, but seldom in psychology. He quotes someone putting a point to a US professor who replies <i>"when you are a professor, you can make points like that"</i>.</span></h4>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><span face="">Lump</span> <span face="">Two</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face="">I<span face=""> keep writing stuff about the 80s recession for some reason</span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="background-color: lime;">This veers-off into reminiscence and needs a bit of editing</span> - in fact the whole thing is just a ramble from here-on which is good because it covers unexpected things. I had not much idea what it was about when I started writing. The trouble is that I find it rather hard to read and sometimes make a point twice because I lost track.<br />
<br />
Where were we?<br />
<br />
In the newspapers, graph 19.2 was just a puzzling thing that happend to other people, but there was still a special slot on the TV news called <i>"Today's Redundancies"</i> - thousands every day at some forgotten household name gone defunct, with no chance that anything similar could open-up in its place. Usually someone would buy the brand to help flog imports in competition with things still made in the UK. Evan Davis' <i>Made in Britain</i> book mentions this as a great example of how people in the UK have intellectual property worth so much more than their or our ability to make things. For example, new Wedgewood plates have <i>"made in China"</i> written on them. Older ones have <i>"made in England"</i>. I expect there are Chintz fabric designs that have gone back to China too.<br />
<br />
In 1985 the biggest producer of boots with Doc Marten soles - Griggs with the <i>Airwear</i> brand - managed to take-over the Woollaston Vulcanisagtion Co-Operative, who held the Doc Martens brand. Next they stopped their competitors like Goerge Cox or G Brittan or that firm who's factory is still empty in the middle or Northampton, GB Hawkins, who used to make DMs with <i>Astraunaut</i> written on the pull tag. White's of Earl's Barton wrote <i>Tredair</i> on theirs, WJ Brooks probably wrote <i>Provider,</i> and there were probably others, working with the <i>Airwair</i> brand and a firm called <i>Airwear Marketing</i> until suddenly crowded-out. GB Brittan the Bristol army boot manufacturers were a big one. There was a growth in advertising as brands with cheap overseas suppliers spend their margins on the new idea of big brands, but all that stuff happenned down in London more, and a bit later-on.<br />
<br />
I met someone who grew-up in a Hammersmith council estate during the late eighties. She could name the year in which branded goods became a must-have for children on the estate. This was a effect of the broken economy. As imports were so-much cheaper, it became easier to make a huge mark-up on an Chinese shoe if backed by a huge expenditure on advertising. If you watch the documentary <i>The Kinky Boot Factory</i>, you see Mr Pateman of WJ Brooks Devine making the same point at his small Department for Business funded stall at a Dusseldorf trade show while the one a few stalls along has a caberet. <i>"They get the shoes into the UK for about £15 and all the rest of the price is advertising"</i>. This has a couple of nasty sides. One is that Mr Pateman had to close his factory, which had a wholesale price at least double, so his made-to-order shoes with delivery time of a few weeks were more expensive than the completion's off-the-shelf shoes. He had to pay for a welfare state and employment law after all. The other nasty side is that people who couldn't afford Nike and Addas at home of Microsoft and Adobe at work felt excluded. In some kind of social job in the 2000s I met an ex-childrens-home girl who said she got angry with one of her children. It had looked at something second-hand on a stall. She wasn't sure why she got so angry when she tried to explain to the child why not to buy second-hand things. One thing you see in any film of riots or crime is a lot of Addas-branded hoodies, which retail for over £50 each. In riots and chaos, some people go shoplifting the very items that put them out of work. A final point about "today's redundancies" </span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">In the 1980s, the closures on the daily news are large companies every single day. Seldom retail companies. If a retail company looses market share, and people in the UK want to keep buying, then the money goes through a different channel. The idea of retail job losses or gains is different. These redundancies are part of a vast ingenious manufacturing industry that allows so many people to crowd a small island, and concerns them as it collapses. The point is seldom made, so worth stating another way. If a job moves to China, Keele graduates and their redundant parents cannot follow. Language, visas, air fairs, accommodation, and adjustment to living with strangers under a dictatorship are all barriers to a the free movement that economists sometimes talk about. It might be illegal in China for a UK unemployed person to go looking for work for all I know. And each country is different - Bangladeshis have a bit more freedom, but no welfare state and so people leave school early and have loads of children.<br />
</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;"><DIGRESSION ON BANGLADESH></span> Bangladesh gets a special exemption from EU tariffs to undercut UK textile production prices, all negotiated with the EU by the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, at UK taxpayers' expense, because those officials and ministers take a decision the economics students should know about, which is that a welfare state is a bonus for rich countries something to ignore when negotiating free trade deals with other countries, even if , in the case of Bangladesh, it turns out that Bangladeshi wages in textile factories fall rather than rise and UK textile factories near extinction. This is a general rant about a few decade's worth of policies but the problem in the early 1980s is a high exchange rate closing factories very very fast. <span style="color: red;"></DIGRESSION ON BANGLADESH></span></span></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> Most people in the college and their parents were effected. Middle-aged people who were forced to leave the labour market, and the teenagers and twenty-odds who were less able to join it, noticed the crisis most, particularly in industrial areas. <br />
<br />
Newspaper editors and cowboy economists had strong opinions anyway, without having to notice things in the same way. But on the news and in the governing political party, <i>Today's Redundancies</i> were just part of the peripheral vision and not a reason for better monetary policy. The prime minister only wanted to understand opinions from certain kinds of economists anyway. If they needed an economics advisor, they went to the USA and there are exampels on the net somwehere of who they found.<br />
<br />
The governing party had a favourite PR agency, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Pottinger">Bell Pottinger</a>, who's scapegoating technique is now well-known and on Wikipedia. In South Africa the scapegoat was "White Monopoly Capital"; in the UK Bell Pottinger tried hard to find anything anyone cared about, and I suppose they probably thought it was miners mentioned in speeches about the "enemy within". <br />
<br />
Mrs Thatcher attempted a comedy sketch with the cast of <i>Yes Minister</i> in which she asked Sir Humphrey to abolish economists, but she wasn't the type to say that the whole darn thing had gone wrong; she didn't get enough sleep and she had started-off believing anything a right wing American economist told her. And when she pressed "delete" for so much of UK manufacturing, it wiped-out a lot of communities with a habit of voting labour, so there was a nasty un-stated reason not to complain. Just as the Labour party had ignored the problems of bulldozing inner cities in order to concentrate their supporters into council housing built by Pollson and partners a decade or two earlier. Then, events like the Falklands War and the extra-ordinary support of newspaper proprietors helped her government win elections until the other parties became clones.</span> </h4>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">How government economics advisers caused a recession</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
The exchange-rate hike in 1979 closed the best factories that exported most.<br />
<br />
The policy of hiking-up interest rates to reduce inflation had existed before and it still taken seriously now. It was called "monetary policy" in economics textbooks and among pundits, writing in the financial pages of newspapers, just before sport and TV.. But this was extreme enough to make the front page. I think that real interest rates after inflation went from 7½% to 15%, or there was some dramatic change: I remember newspaper pictures of the chancellor with his red dispatch box and some giant huge interest rate printed over it, saying <i>"I am a mug: I choose to pay too much for government debt and to wreck this economy" </i>and that is how he held down a job for his boss..<br />
<br />
Money from around the world surged-in as people bought any safe investment, like bank accounts, but more likely government stock from this government so stupid that it voluntarily paid too much interest for its government bonds in order to put labour voters out of business. The tide of money hiked-up the exchange rate so that nobody in the UK could sell anything any more, unless it was within the UK, and without competition from imports. Politicians pundits and newspaper owners weren't effected, but the rest of us were.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
My dad had to stop taking on new business about the time that the closure of the MG car factory was on the news. My did did consumer credit, and MG did exports, but in this recession both closed at the same time. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">A new UK textbook spells-out the start of the factory-closing process in detail</a>. The worst factories that only made things for the home market were able to stagger-on a bit longer, proving, first, that a concerned home market helps manufacturing, and second that the standard account of the 1980s is wrong. The<i> "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession#Economic_impact">battle against inflation resulted in the closure of many inefficient factories, shipyards and coal pits</a>"</i>, according to Wikipedia, which doesn't mention the exchange-rate hike directly. That's the kind of discrepancy economics students ought to study. Faults in official truth. If you google the problem you find two different views, one on Wikipedia and one on Economics Help that says the fiddled exchange rate closed factories. The Economics Help view is the true one.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>The Servis washing machine factory, that made reliable washing machines, closed while the Hotpoint factory carried-on.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>The MG car factory at Abingdon closed in about 1979, but the one making the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Ital">Morris Ital</a> survived to make the next model, as part of the same group of companies<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Reliant Scimitars - both models - and Bond Buggies ceased production, but the Reliant Robin carried-on production at the same Tamworth factory.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Steelite stacking crockery for caterers was still made, but a UK factory closed. Things like Staffordshire Figurines and Spode continued in production I think. I remember seeing it in shop windows and taking bus journeys past the Spode factory,<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Personal computer manufactures Acorn, Dragon, and Osborn all closed, while main-frame manufacturers GEC and ICL continued. (A censored anecdote in the official history of Reading University is that staff would have liked to take their million pound ICL computer to the end of a peer and push it over. They didn't. They donated it to Wellington College. But you get the idea that mainframe computers with their leasing and maintenance contracts were worse value than desktop ones bought from a new breed of companies, tens or hundreds or times cheaper).<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
The Wikipedia account comes from some different source to reality: an idea of how to shock the habit of inflation out of the US labour market called something like Rational Expectations, re-written into a kind of Geoffrey Archer plot regardless of facts. An odd idea, rather like the recent Quantitative Easing, which I don't quite understand - the sort of thing you go on an economics course to find out more about, or, if you are the minister or civil servant pushed to do it by a prime minister, the sort of thing you hope won't go massively wrong and close down a big chunk of the economy and the prospects of regions and generations.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Two policies that seem intuitively wrong </span><br />
</h4>
Quantitative Easing in 2006+ seemed to do OK. I don't quite understand it. I don't understand why printing money works now in the UK but didn't work in Weimar Germany or Zimbabwe. If the policy works I don't know why it isn't done more, to pay off the national debt. Maybe the economy would have de-flated otherwise. I know that public works mop-up surplus capacity in the economy, and there are unemployment statistics that give a clue when to try the idea or when to run it down. I don't know how anyone knows whether Quantitive Easing will help prevent deflation and cut the national debt, which are good things, or cause massive inflation and make it hard for the remains of the economy to remain, which are bad things. As in Weimar Germany of Zimbabwe. Maybe there is an expert who knows. Someone who has done an economics degree. <br />
<br />
Monetary Policy from 1979-2009 was as weird as Quantitative Easing. Intuitively daft. It was also a crisis from day one, in 1979, but the governing class of tabloid proprietors and government grandees seemed to support it anyway. I don't even know the official name for this idea of hiking-up the exchange rate and closing factories. Maybe it was the <a href="http://www.lse.ac.uk/fmg/dp/specialPapers/PDF/SP190.pdf">Medium Term Financial Strategy</a>, which sounds like a cover-up name. Maybe some supporters hoped it would close-down loads of factories in Labour-voting areas and free labour to work in services in Conservative-voting areas. If many people hoped this, I guess it would have leaked, and show in the facial expressions and tone of voice of ministers interviewed years later. I do not know of any such leaks. There is a series of video interviews, shown on TV at the time of Mrs Thatcher's death, of the ministers who had to endure her as an awful boss before she sacked them. I don't know how to view it, but people who have watched a lot of TV over time might confirm to you that this is plausible, even if you can't get hold of the video interviews. The ex-ministers' tones of voice and facial expressions suggest that they want to be given a chance to apologise, and explain why they were so bad at getting-rid of disaster prime ministers before loosing their chance because she got rid of them. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Prior">James Prior</a>, does apologise. He says that once you have closed so much of industry, it is very hard to get it back. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Pym">Francis Pym</a>, says that the government should have given-up the manifesto pledge of a radical economic policy on day one, because it wouldn't work in a recession. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Gilmour,_Baron_Gilmour_of_Craigmillar">Ian Gilmour</a>, describes Mrs Thatcher's performance at a Dublin EU summit at which the other leaders ignored her and she only got some token concession. Ruefully, he admits that he persuaded her <i>not</i> to resign. His idea was to tell the public that the meeting had been a victory, so that a loyal press could agree. None of them were sure how much the tabloid press supported them and voters took note of the tabloid press, but the idea worked. Unlike the monetarist economic experiment, but the ghosts of those newspaper points of view remain. Everyone now agrees that the disaster of 1980s economics was a success, because the newspapers said so. <span style="background-color: lime;"><note to self>gap in the text here between one bit and another</note to self></span> The US economy, where this idea was made up, was very very big, with fewer imports and exports in proportion; a shock to interest rates worked more through reduced investment and increased spending as peoples' mortgage costs went-up. That's the country that monetarist economists inhabited. Their proposed shock would have another effect as the exchange-rate rose and imports flooded-in, but it could be ignored in the short term or patched-up with some shrugs to the worst-effected, or maybe some tariffs and subsidies and a bit of favouritism in government purchasing. I doubt the system worked - there is a rust belt in the USA and voters switched to Trump in order to prevent another free trade deal called TTIP - but economics is not the same in every country, and the country I inhabited was the UK.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><span face="">Lump </span><span face="">Three</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face="">Recessions effect the colleges that teach about recessions</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The new UK government in 1979 got their radical economic policies second hand from the USA, and the graph above was the result. The choice of advisers wasn't as stupid as it looks in hindsight, but it was almost as stupid. The idea of managing demand to grow an economy was obviously not working, and there were not many ideas in economics textbooks about increasing supply. There had been a decade of inflation. And American economists sounded so convincing when they talked about money supply and radical solutions that an opposition party looking for idea would pick-up those ideas, even if they were nothing to do with the supply of goods. Nothing to do with making factory work more interesting and the products more easy to buy.<br />
<br />
There is something odd about a lot of UK politicians and civil servants and BBC editors, as in The Times and other publications like James Bond films. They apply it to defence procurement as well. They like things to come from the USA. Not Canada; not anywhere else but the USA. <br />
<br />
A lot of economic ideas did seem to come from the USA. That's where the ideas in the main textbooks came from. There was a huge single market to sell textbooks for courses that helped teenagers avoid consciption. They would study anything. I remember there was even a scheme for awarding points towards a degree to a teenager who travelled to Europe, so a year-off could be a reason to avoid conscription.<br />
<br />
The same textbooks helped lecturers avoid the McArthy / Todd committees and unfair dismissals, because teaching from the textbook was safe, and hard for anyone to complain about. <span style="background-color: lime;">I think I repeat this point somewhere further down the page.</span> These same lecturers had to research and write and have big ideas if they wanted to advance their careers, but they also had to have such safe and boring, technical, pointless ideas that nobody would read about them to consruct a dismissal. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tobin#Legacy">The most exciting idea I remember from lectures was to tax polluters</a>. Not very exciting, but among the ideas of the Kirmit-men it was the most exciting thing going. National Insurance was completely off the scale - way too exciting for the Kirmit men. <br />
<br />
In order to make things look open and academic, they had competing schools of thought between certain famous US professors, so that US lecturers could explain why the two schools disagreed and look as though they reported on an open democratic process. A bit like this way of teaching English<br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="height: 139px; width: 489px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td height="23" width="14%"><br /></td> <td colspan="4"><h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Official schools of thought & critics</span></h4>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="4" width="14%">Official canon of english literature</td> <td height="23" width="19%"><br /></td> <td height="23" width="21%">professor A</td> <td height="23" width="23%">professor B</td> <td height="23" width="23%">professor C</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text A</td> <td colspan="3" rowspan="3"><h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">loads of stuff learned by heart for essay deadlines & exams, then forgotten a year later because it has nothing to do with anything in any graduate's life.</span></h4>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text B</td> </tr>
<tr> <td height="23" width="19%"> text C</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
I don't think US economics went as far as three professors and three schools of thought; I think it was just two. <br />
<br />
Professor A.<br />
<br />
There were mid-atlantic professors.<br />
<br />
They avoided saying anything controversial in the US, and anything controversial in the UK, rather like the music that was played on Radio 1.<br />
<br />
Smug and well-paid for coporate consultancy and keen to pretend they hadn't head of the welfare state. I don't know how they held-down jobs as economics teachers while pretending not to have heard of the welfare state, but I guess their US students faced the draft and fighting in Vietnam if they walked-out of a course while their UK stduents had less of the textbook market and nodded-along.<br />
<br />
Mid-Atlantic professors acknowledged that demand management could help the economy, in a recession, and if it was the USA in 1936 with very few imports or exports to trouble the diagram. They thought of public spending like the sprinkler systems their gardners used on their lawns in a drought, ready to turn off when the weather got back to normal. There was a thing called the Phillips Curve which used to show a trade-off between inflation caused by too much sprinkling and unemployment caused by too little, but this relationship had ceased during the oil crisis. By this time the smug people were so well-paid and irrelevant that I don't remember them being quoted much or anyone knowing their names.<br />
<br />
Professor B.<br />
<br />
And there were US monetarists who thought the Keynsians were reds under the beds, and that industry needed to be closed for no apparent reason, under the pretext of preventing inflation. On that pretext they would find a way to over-value the currency and close manufacturing. They are still respected among the Monetary Policy Committee at the Bank of England, among MPs and in the press. There are hints from the Bank of England that it expects to nudge-up interest rates soon as a way of reducing inflationary pressures caused by high employment.<br />
<br />
Neither group of US economists ran tutorials. You can tell by searching for videos of them. For example David Laidler wrote my obviously awful micro-economics textbook, so he must have been a bit retarded or very carefully selected for his ignorance.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
He was selected by the Institute of Economic Affairs (more about them is on <a href="https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs">Sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs</a> ) to give a lecture about the Chicago School. There's another one on Youtube. I've watched about a minute of one in which he says that there were concerns about whether capitalism could survive, in some unspoken way that he understood it like capitalism without an NHS, but there's no chance to find-out because he talks in a particular way.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
He talks <i><u>v-e-r-y</u> <u>s-l-o-w-l-y</u> a-s t-h-o-u-g-h h-e h-a-s <u>l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g</u> <u>d-i-f-f-i-c-u-l-t-i-e-s.</u></i> So if you were on his awful year two course in micro-economics at Western Ontario University in the 1970s, and even if there were some opportunity to talk to him like a tutorial, <i>h-e w-o-u-l-d t-a-l-k <u> t-o-o</u> <u>s-l-o-w-l-y</u> f-o-r a <u>c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n</u> t-o <u>w-o-r-k</u></i><i> . </i>Students wouldn't get a chance to talk back. He would not learn anything from students. This is a real learning difficulty compared to other academics who run tutorials. And he seems not to mind; he is <i>p-a-i-d b-y t-h-e <u>h-o-u-r</u></i>, <i>n-o-t t-h-e </i> <i><u>i-d-e-a</u></i>. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I didn't spot any good ideas in <i>Econometrica</i>. I don't know if anyone has ever read it, cover to cover. I guess the most exciting story is "gentleman discovers curve".<br />
<i></i></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I haven't checked videos of modern LSE professors, but they might be the same.<br />
They beat Edinburgh , University College London and Manchester professors to get the extreme worst end of economics students' feedback on Unistats. (LSE course are the least popular of any college except another government favourite: University of the Arts). Usually, if a course completes, students don't use the bottom half of the scale but one heading they score 37%. I don't think economic problems usually need a lot of maths to address them. For example, these bright, precocious, selected students ought pretty-much to have taught themselves just after sitting in a room together, but that's not a mathmatical response. Anyway there is some maths in economics, and these are the figures you need to know about the UK's leading economists.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10004063FT-L101-UBEC/ReturnTo/">LSE Economics degree student feedback</a>, checked January 2018<br />
<b><span face="">63%</span></b> Overall, I am satisfied with the quality of the course<br />
<b><span face="">77%</span></b> Staff are good at explaining things<br />
<b><span face="">60%</span></b> Staff have made the subject interesting<br />
<b><span face="">74%</span></b> The course is intellectually stimulating<br />
<b><span face="">61%</span></b> My course challenged me to achieve my best work<br />
<b><span face="">66%</span></b> My course provided me with opportunities to explore ideas or concepts in depth<br />
<b><span face="">65% </span></b>My course has provided me with opportunities to bring information & ideas together from different topics<br />
<b><span face="">53%</span> My course has provided me with opportunities to apply what I have learnt</b><br />
<b><span face="">50%</span> I have received helpful comments on my work</b><br />
<span face=""><b>37%</b></span> The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance<br />
<b><span face="">59%</span></b> Marking and assessment has been fair<br />
<b><span face="">61%</span></b> Feedback on my work has been timely<br />
<br />
When I wrote that English Literature could be taught as a grid of what professors think about texts I exaggerated by writing "professor" instead of "critic", but in economics departments, both the people allowed to have opinions in the textbooks were professors who looked like Kirmit the frog, who had climbed up a controlled career path and were well-paid for consultancy work and academic jobs just s long as they didn't say it was all silly. They pretended that they had an impartial, politics-proof science with journals as respectable as <i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet">The Lancet</a></i> for medics, but medical science is often based on fact and stats alongside status; it aims to be based on fact. Economic science was more based on status and ability to avoid criticism by being so boring and distant and controlled that, in 1980s Keele, students had no way to argue-back and the same was true of journalists and anyone else such as voters. The much-used book <i>Microeconomics</i> by David Laidler is proof to outsiders. It proves that economic laws agree with each other and neither knows nor cares whether they agree with how human beings run markets or public services - in fact the Samualson article defining a <i>Public Good</i> is simply an insult to any such idea. As a student I was more immersed in the subject; I hoped it lead somewhere.I tried buying a more advanced textbook, because the the macroeconomics tutor did not seem to have read the current standard one. I bought <i>"Macroeconomics - an introduction to Keynsian Neo-Classical Controversies"</i> - to find that it doesn't get any better, even in the middle of an economic crisis with a quarter of the workforce not working.<br />
<br />
One economist who started in Leicester, UK, and moved to teach in the USA was welcomed as a UK government advisor, because he'd taught in the USA. 365 UK economists who taught in the UK wrote a letter to The Times condemning government economic policy were not welcome as government advisers. The person who wrote my awful micro economic textbook was bad enough to advise a bad government, but he was Canadian, so he wouldn't do; he remained a textbook-writer and "one of the foremost scholars of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetarism" title="Monetarism">monetarism</a>", it says on Wikipedia. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: lime;">This bit is in twice</span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=David+Laidler,+economics&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw5eKB-dvTAhUIIsAKHcYCCOQQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1210&bih=888"> This is a video search on google for "David Laidler, economics"</a>. <br />
<br />
I watched a minute of his interview on banking, and a minute of his lecture describing the history of the Chicago School of Economics. Judged on style alone, he could appear reasonable and well-informed, as though there was some great slow machine running in his head. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/12/getting-gradually-closer-to-installing.html">If you've read any of his textbook, it's harder to believe that there is anything inside his head at all - you worry if he has special needs - but the textbook is so opaque that I doubt many people have ever managed to read it</a>..<br />
<br />
The story gets worse.<br />
<br />
Monetarist economists were a bit like <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Fred Goodwin of RBS, </li>
<li>Adam Applegarth of Northern Rock, or</li>
<li> Richard S. Fuld, Jr. of Lehman Brothers. </li>
</ul>
They were not just supposed experts, but they were the people who caused a whole list of things that nearly closed Keele University and did close my father's business and effected everyone in the UK one way or another, so there was some discussion to be had about why the culprits were paid and treated as experts. It's all new territory for bad economics courses. They usually embellish the X-shaped diagrams with roof-like triangles and satellite-dish shapes for micro-economics. They usually move-on to demand management for macro-economics, finishing with a kind of charting exercise in which some of the rules-of-thumb are combined as a chart with lots of dotted lines and that's called "modelling".<br />
<br />
Not that Keele ran a bad economics course in the early 80s: small groups of students tried to solve problems with a tutor, and learn theory along-side, but times have changed. I think the areas of study were innovation and encouragement for UK industry - a bespoke course that re-appeared for a year in 1987, overseas development and world trade, and a bespoke macro course about funding the welfare state over decades including pensions. There were student reps on the staff Senate, and one or two non-economists had been hired to teach economics, which can only be a good thing and lead to better teaching. The senate was one of the two groups that was meant to control the organisation, alongside a "Council" of bigwigs and of course mainly the government funding organisation and people who had got jobs managing the place. Good courses were replaced by whatever was cheap and available on the shelf in my year. <span style="background-color: lime;"><note to self> I loose the thread a bit here </note to self></span> An over-riding principal is that there has to be a better private sector to provide jobs and pay taxes, and there has to be more clarity about the deal on things like pensions. There's not a huge amount in the way of business tips, which is wise because educationalists aren't in business. All good stuff, slipped-in to a course far earlier than at the more mathematical full-time courses in other colleges. I just wish they had built-in some kind of access to self-employed work as part of the course, because I fell-out of the end without a job</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">a third less money & no explanation</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<i>University Grants Committee letters of 1st July 1981 ... grants ... ignoring the decimal places ... for 1981-2 , 1982-3 (tentative) 1983-4 (tentative) in millions</i> <span face=""><br />
<br />
81+ 82+ 83+ <br />
<br />
31 30 29 Oxfor<span face="">d</span> <br />
30 29 28 Cambridge <br />
30 29 28 Leeds <br />
28 27 26 Liverpool</span><span face=""><span face=""><br />
27 26 25 Birmingham </span><br />
23 22 21 Sheffield <br />
10 09 08 Surrey</span> <i><br />
other universities ... slightly better ... worst results</i><span face="">:<br />
11 10 09 Bradford </span><br />
<span face="">12 10 09 Aston <br />
11 09 08 Salford <br />
07 06 05 Keele <br />
<br />
<span face=""><i>Combined with the falling grant was an enforced overall reduction of student numbers of just under 5% ... despite peak demand for university places from 18 year-olds. Most universities ... reduced ... worst were Surrey ... 14%, Aston 20%, Salford 30%, and Keele 17%.</i> <i>Source: <u>Keele, the First 50 Years</u>, JM K<span face="">o</span>lbert, p194</i> <br />
<i><br />
"at the time, Keele had a popul</i><span face=""><i>ation of 2,700 students"</i> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keele_University#Government_funding_cuts">Wikipedia</a><span face="">, probably from Kolbert</span></span><i><span face=""><br />
<br />
"students in residence ... </span></i></span></span><i><span face=""><span face="">1981+</span></span><span face=""> </span>12,313" ... "undergraduates ... 9,436"</i> - <span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><a href="http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/gazette/documents/statisticalinformation/studentnumbers/1991/table_i-1991.pdf">Oxford.ac.uk </a><span face=""><a href="http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/gazette/documents/statisticalinformation/studentnumbers/1991/table_i-1991.pdf">Gazette, Student Numbers </a><span face=""><a href="http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/gazette/documents/statisticalinformation/studentnumbers/1991/table_i-1991.pdf">Supplement</a>, table headed<i> "<span face="">S</span>t<span face="">udent <span face="">N</span><span face="">umbers 1991<span face="">"</span></span></span></i></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span face="">Central government funding per <span face="">student was just over £2<span face="">,500 <span face=""><span face="">at Oxf<span face="">ord and Keele in 1981. The courses at plate-glass universities like Keele were better. Keele had <i>"problem solving workshops"</i>. But it was smaller universities, where the best ideas were, that got cut. The red-brick universities with their terrible student feedback for bad economics teaching did OK, as did Oxford and Cambridge.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
This could explain why <span face="">some <span face="">recent front bench politicians - Cameron, Balls, Johnson - don't <span face="">seem to know about the 80s recession and how <span face="">the fiddled exchange ra<span face="">te of monetary policy decisions</span></span> caused it. <br />
<br />
Oxford students got the funding for college education but some of them were photographed and recorded looking more interested in debating soci<span face="">eties, pagentry and careers. </span>They were students <span face="">in a bubble of a university<span face="">,</span> whi<span face="">ch ran sho<span face="">rt economics courses as part of the PP<span face="">E degree, and their univer<span face="">sity <span face="">grant was cut by a thirtieth while Keele's was cut by a third. Oxford <span face="">can ask the colleges for help, with their generations-old investment<span face="">s <span face="">and compounded interest</span></span></span>. Keele <span face="">didn't have many past generations<span face="">. It had a grant of over £100,000 a year from Staffordshire Council, but that ended in the mid eighties as well. It had a conference centre, just in case anyone mid-recession had a lot of money to confer. I know because most of the <span face="">jobs at Keele that were not to do with teaching were to do with a con<span face="">ference centre. Students were chucked-out very <span face="">stric<span face="">tly at the end of ter<span face="">m because <i>"conference attenders and students are notoriously bad <span face="">mixers"</span></i> - <i>"this applies if you have no<span face="">where else to <span face="">go"</span></span></i></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span face=""><span face="">. Overheard in<span face=""> a qu<span face="">eue at the halls of resid<span face="">ence offi<span face="">ce</span><span face=""><i> "The new girl asks: does she have to polish the lavatory seats?<span face="">" "Tell her Yes: with Mansion Wax<span face="">".</span></span></i></span></span></span></span><br />
<span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><br />
W</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>h<span face="">ere were we<span face="">? <br />
<br />
Bu<span face="">dget cuts a<span face="">fter t<span face="">h<span face="">e 1980s government lost a lot of its tax revenue by<span face=""> closing a lot of the economy. The<span face="">y <span face="">had to make-up a story.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span face="">Similar points are<span face=""> made</span></span> in <span face="">free-to-read</span> parts of <u><span face="">Higher Education in Post War Britain</span></u><span face=""> , W St<span face="">ewart, p226<span face="">, with the added idea of protecting something called <i>"science"</i>, t<span face="">ypically <span face="">taught as badly as economic<span face="">s <span face="">to students in <span face="">courses</span> that were hard to fill. You can see this still tru<span face="">e in U<span face="">nistats reports by students.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">The rest of the chapter i<span face="">n JM Kolbert's his<span face="">tory of Keele</span></span> explains that nobody knew what these figures referred to<span face="">. A competent government <span face="">might</span> publish<span face=""> </span>amounts per head <span face="">paid to colleges to teach each type of subject, <span face="">and make the<span face=""> amounts the same<span face=""> for <span face="">all students of institu<span face="">tions that r<span face="">each some minimum standard</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span face="">. </span><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">N</span>o table was attached to the letter<span face="">; there was <span face="">no<span face=""> competent government.<span face=""> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">T<span face="">axes we<span face="">re raised on a scale to justify vast</span></span></span> <span face="">insurance-like services, <span face="">but b<span face="">u<span face="">dgets </span></span></span><span face="">w<span face="">ere</span> managed as Father C<span face="">hristmas manages his sack: all the<span face=""> tax money goes to <span face="">the <span face="">t</span><span face="">reasury, and the Chancellor decides which children get presents<span face="">, <span face="">agreeing with</span> lobbyists from Royal Opera House, English National Opera, Oxford University<span face=""><span face=""> <span face="">and Cambridge University,</span></span> but not Aston University or <span face="">Keele.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span face="">Kolberts</span> job at the time was assistant registrar at Keele <span face=""><span face="">and a previous job <span face="">was at GCHQ</span></span> so if he didn't know, <span face="">nobody did<span face="">, except perhaps the University Grants Committee. When pressed for an answer, they got a <span face="">bit pompous and wouldn't say <span face="">according to his book.</span> One of them mentioned political pressure <span face="">in a speech much later<span face="">, after changing jobs. If you have some software that crunches stats, you might want to check whether posh, big, and <span face="">southern <span face="">correlate<span face="">, or high <span face="">A-level grades for <span face="">students accepted, or some co<span face="">mbination. <br />
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">There's a memorable pattern to the <span face="">figures</span>, as though someone in the chaos <span face="">had to come-up with something<span face="">, but it isn't related to spending per head per year, or <span face="">the fact t<span face="">hat <span face=""><span face="">colleges <span face="">had long-term <span face="">bills they were cont<span face="">racted <span face="">to pay.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> Universities had been warned to make no financial commitments the year before. They'd been pressed <span face="">to stre<span face="">tch budgets for a few years, with things like larger teaching <span face="">groups, and warned of a <span face="">likely 3<span face="">½% cut <span face="">from 1981-2. Meanwhile, government tax revenue must have fallen <span face="">to zilch just as dole costs soared<span face="">; this was the government that built-up a vast deficit.<br />
<br />
Some people who might know why Keele's budget was cut so much are the late Mark Carlisle and Kieth Joseph, education ministers, and their civil servants who had to come-up with something in the chaos. The personal private secretary was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare_Short#Early_life" title="Working as Private Secretary to the Conservative minister Mark Carlisle gave her the idea that she could do better than many of the MPs she dealt with, and at the 1983 UK general election she was elected as MP for Ladywood, Birmingham; the area where she grew up">Claire Short</a>, who did a Keele Foundation year in the early 60s. She decided at that point that she could do a better job herself and to stand for parliament.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></fieldset>
<br /></blockquote>
<span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">E</span>very 18 year-old with a chance of a college place applied, just to stay off the dole. </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">One of them shared a <span face="">hitchiking lift from Keele - he must have asked the driver to stop at Keele Service <span face="">Station - and asked for ideas after failing some exams<i>. "I want to</i> <span face=""><i>do Geo</i><span face=""><i>graphy"</i>, he said. <i>"Ge</i><span face=""><i>ography is crap, but it gets you into university"</i>.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> I remember th<span face="">e obscure foundation year course - the one that people didn't usually appl<span face="">y <span face="">f</span>or - was packed on day one<span face="">, with students like me who the college was</span> <span face="">no longer paid to <span face="">teach<span face="">, <span face="">with <span face="">those staff who remained on the payroll, and very little else if it could cut in any way.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> I presume the <span face="">college r</span><span face="">an-up</span> <span face="">de<span face="">bts just like central government<span face="">; it sold <span face="">something called The Turner Collection</span></span></span></span> <span face="">in the 1990s<span face="">.</span> I'm very glad they <span face="">kept going</span> rather than put<span face="">-up a sign saying <i>"we regret that due to unforeseen circum</i><span face=""><i>stances, all staff are redundant and all courses are cancelled"</i>. That's the kind of thing peop<span face="">le hoped to get away from.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Cyclical spending, I remember from A-level, is anything that can be cut in an emergency like some of the back-office staff, building maintenance, new computers, or books. My opening quote <i>"if you turn to your textbooks..."</i> could not have happened because academic staff didn't have recent textbooks. I noticed that academic staff were rare, but they were only cut 10%.. Spending on new books or computers was near zero. The registrar was made redundant. The Vice Chancellor's job was confirmed when the college <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keele_University#Government_funding_cuts">chose not to merge</a> with a technical college down-town, probably because it would save no money, but there was some co-operation on redundancies so a lecturer could be made redundant from one job and emerge, surprised, teaching at the other college instead of getting a pay-out. Other staff chose unpaid leave without replacement [Tribe, 2014, p3, <a href="https://www.academia.edu/7264841/The_Modern_Economics_Curriculum" title="from 1979 to 1984 I spent more time in $ermany than in Britain, thus saving my university a significant amount of money">footnote 8</a>]. Meanwhile the Vice Chancellor got another job anyway, and a new one was hired, who managed to save money by doing his job as badly as possible. I saw him bellowing at students, telling them they wouldn't get degrees unless they picked-up litter, and I overheard bits of similar phone calls to staff. It would be good to know if part of the brief was to keep economics teaching boring, and the same thing was happening in other colleges, but <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-can-i-get-kickstart-installed-no.html" title="tone image and rank versus fact">this kind of stuff tends not to be written-down</a>. The same mistakes have to happen over and over again</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Cheap teaching: make-do & mend</span><br />
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
While posts are left unfilled, a 64 year-old head of department who I will call The Professor teaches flat-out to fill the gaps. In English, the generation of professors who taught slot-together A-level textbook courses (plus a bit to look like Uni) has ended and a new generation allow students to do something more. English is the cheapest subject and so is allowed to expand on the advice of funders. Economics is a middling-priced subject and still has the older generation in charge.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Problem-solving workshops in the economics department are abandoned for ever, leaving cheap lectures and cheap things that are almost the same, called a <i>"class"</i> in whatever subject an available lecturer is prepared to teach from one end of a classroom to dozens of bored-looking students. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There was nothing to make stupid lectures cheaper than interesting lectures, but something about university economics departments - and the professor's own own past - suggested that the most obviously stupid stuff that students should walk-out of or get a refund for enduring... that stuff was considered the core of the subject and money was found to teach it, even if money for teaching more-or-less ran-out by the end of the course.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<br />
In summery:<br />
<span style="color: red;">Good course</span>: problem solving workshop with a very high ratio of staff to students.<br />
Problems determine what theories are called-on, so irrelevant or wrong theory is not called-on.<br />
<span style="color: red;">Bad course</span>: weatherman addresses a room full of unknown bored faces, delivering some bit of obviously wrong theory that none of them will remember a year after graduating because it has nothing to do with them or things that they or the weatherman are interested in.<br />
<br />
By 1986, the plan was to share teaching with the technical college down-town, but that plan fell-through. So we students saw a lot of the few teaching staff left at Keele, staring at them from one end of a room and trying to work-out what was going-on.</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The Professor, professor of Economics at Keele & possibly the only nice US economist</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
<blockquote>
He was unusually nice for a 1980s economist, a survivor who taught whatever was in the classic textbook along with anecdotes about changing jumper designs and warm beer and revision classes with a broiler chicken example from decades-old notes. A man who used to do anecodes about <i>"this technological age"</i> in the consultancy work on job-seeking that he published for the State of Colorado. By the 1980s he dropped that style except for anecdotes about Ford of Detroit, who paid for his Ford Foundation scholarship to the UK, so he still launched into anecdotes about the wonders of Ford of Detroit even though students were more interested in Ford of Dagenham. <br />
<br />
The man who said <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree" </i>in a revision lecture on ISLM diagrams. The tutor who didn't learn how to do a tutorial, but approved of tutorials in theory, just as long as he didn't have to do them.<br />
<br />
The same man who hired new staff with a non-economist background, for sanity. Young teachers to teach about innovation, third world development, and more while offering study leave for those who weren't yet published authors to become so, and tried to get lecturers to hop-about between different jobs to pick-up ideas.<br />
<br />
The same father-figure of a man who used my taxes (or my mum and dad's taxes if he believed in the "transfer payments" idea of what the state does rather than the more obviously true one of being a national insurance company) to lie to me about the scumbags who had destroyed my dad's business and the jobs of the parents of so-many other people in the room. So I would rather write a warm obituary about my own dad than this dad.<br />
<br />
The professor is also past caring what anyone thinks about him - he is long dead - so I used to quote his name, but that might make this post read as though it's about him, and not about all economics courses and the 1980s destruction of parts of the UK economy. If you've been on another economics course and read about this one, it will look pretty thin because this was a 40 week course taught by a staff team of about 4 with two thirds the going-rate per student for a budget, and it was taught before the internet made more possible. </blockquote></span></h4></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><blockquote>Somewherwe right near the end I might put a link to the man's obituaries, because they explain how he spent years toeaching under threat of the sack if he did anything unauthodox, like giving an opinion about the economy. Loads of economics professors all round the world have to teach like this. There's no way that anyone can blame them for it. The fault is with people in more free countries who copy the habit without realising where it comes from.</blockquote>
</span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdfKqtTPsPrmqOGM2sjVXfTw-3NIbQRG7Pqtc-3fpZ-DvPkGb-Clqid56gUXhr0cCbSV7Y5WM25xnfVV6NdGa5hFHwhfztdg6Y7wGgtG2bnO7o2gGsoYHPXsYzSue-GjcMPBUd5Y0u7giz/s1600/kermit_with_curtain_background_by_corysmithart-d55soey.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Kirmit the Frog" border="0" data-original-height="1030" data-original-width="775" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdfKqtTPsPrmqOGM2sjVXfTw-3NIbQRG7Pqtc-3fpZ-DvPkGb-Clqid56gUXhr0cCbSV7Y5WM25xnfVV6NdGa5hFHwhfztdg6Y7wGgtG2bnO7o2gGsoYHPXsYzSue-GjcMPBUd5Y0u7giz/s200/kermit_with_curtain_background_by_corysmithart-d55soey.jpg" title="" width="150" /></a></span></h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_xjERzcNyuaKmKTcTrwabnThij9QWlaDTa4n8tnHPVkkXqn1peUShuuWahxX-u7Cj-8MnHeuSDLeB2AkhyphenhyphenuylKXUmSip1t_LBGHlcvJfjzwnqmmieEMWF10iozQyisLCvQ6hWK8RZArwq/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Professor Paul A Samualson" border="0" height="210" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_xjERzcNyuaKmKTcTrwabnThij9QWlaDTa4n8tnHPVkkXqn1peUShuuWahxX-u7Cj-8MnHeuSDLeB2AkhyphenhyphenuylKXUmSip1t_LBGHlcvJfjzwnqmmieEMWF10iozQyisLCvQ6hWK8RZArwq/s1600/temp.jpg" title="" width="150" /></a>Coldwar economists were the sort of people who do well after original thinkers get the sack. I expect there are a lot like that are teaching in Turkey now, and a Turkish student can update this list about tactical, careerist people who work well with their funders. Government social work contractors are a bit like this - full of people who have never done anything wrong because they have never done anything.<br />
<br />
In 1950s America they had swept-back hair which was meant to make them look highbrow but also made them look like Kirmit the Frog. They had heavy serious spectacles. They pretended not to know about social insurance, or demand management, or anything that might upset their funders and these professors didn't mind lying to their students and writing things that were fairly obviously false like <a href="https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/econ335/out/samuelson_pure.pdf">Samualson's theory of the public good</a>.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""><DIGRESSION ON JOURNALS IN THE 2010s></span></span><br />
Academic journals often not very good. I found a good article in something called Industrial Relations Bulletin, or some such, but don't remember a single good article being quoted from <a href="https://www.econometricsociety.org/publications/econometrica/aims-and-scope"><i>Econometrica</i></a>. Maybe the editorial team are not every good at economics. <span id="goog_765346442"></span><span id="goog_765346443"></span>They published an article about themselves in 2004, long after free blogs had eliminated most of the cost of printing a journal. <a href="http://www.webcitation.org/6w4f1skQN">$32 was their marginal cost to print and post each of six issues a year</a>, apart from writing, editing, and other fixed costs, and funded by typical fees to libraries of $500 for an institutional log-on and printed copies.</span> <span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></DIGRESSION ON JOURNALS IN THE 2010s></span></span><br />
<br />
Back in 1950s, an anecdote about University of Colorado noticed no books in the bookshop, except textbooks and one exception called "<i>Life of Gandhi</i>". So there weren't many general-interest books to inform tutors, or not if they shopped at the college book shop.<br />
<br />
There were no tutorials to inform tutors. The same anecdote quotes the professor saying that students <i>"to some extent had to be spoon-fed"</i>. Another explanation is that tutors did not want to meet students in tutorials for fear of</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"> allegations being made against them of being a communist, so tutors did not learn anything from students. They wrote the most </span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span data-dobid="hdw">pretentious</span> algebra possible, to make themselves look scientific in their boring articles in<i> Econometrica. </i>while using the biggest possible variations of their names to get noticed, like people who get credits at the end of a film "Catering: Hireme P Fatburger"; "Pointless algebra article in <i>Econometrica:</i> Professor Hireme P Fatburger".<br />
<br />
Paul Samualson was quoted for the more gentle bit ignorant school of thought, and another lot for the theories of money which were a cover for closing industry. Theories of money are a convenient subject, in decades when economists are sacked for origninal thought, because there is a lot of meaningless data about the money supply. Pointless data - a bit like trying to measure the weight of clouds or the distances between stars - but good for a well paid career just as long as no government is daft enought to take your economic advice, because these economic ideas were meant for economists' careers, not for governments and voters. You can tell by the economists' names. Names as big as footballers' haircuts. Not Paul Samualson, but <u>Professor</u> Paul <u>A</u>. Samualson.<br />
<br />The Professor was happy writing "Les" on his office door, even if he didn't hold tutorials, work from original sources, or suggest conflicting points of view beyond the odd mimed shrug. Maybe his ghost gets the last laugh.</span></h4>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Teaching economics is not a lot of fun. In a subject where theory is taught before use, students yawn and <i>"face time"</i>, is used to drill the theory into student heads, useful or not, welcome or not, so they pass the exams. Some of it is so excruciatingly pointless and boring that it has to be drilled-in several times, or at least that is the tradition described in the preface to the awful micro-economics text book. Thirty years later, I still haven't quite brought myself to read David Laidler's <i>Introduction to Economics, second edition, </i>cover to cover and I bought it second-hand, unread. You could harvest some web data about second hand books sold on the internet to see what kinds of books are most-often sold un-read. I guess that micro-economics textbooks for university students are high on the list.<br />
<br />
Something about Laidler's <i>Introduction to Economics</i> just seems wrong, and any readers' mind naturally wonders to ask why? What's going-on? Who writes this stuff? It is like trying to remember the lyrics to <i>Ra-Ra Rasputin</i>; the wierdness distracts from attempts to remember, while the naffnes discourages, and then some other wierdness crops-up like <i>"isoquants"</i> or a curve we are meant to remember from the previous chaptor, and the whole farce lurches from the simplistic to the difficult-because-irritatiing. So we have several variables to add to the equation: puzzlment (P), entitlement to lecture and choose syllabus (E), and the justice of wasting students' time in this way (J). Entitlement and Justice are overlapping versions of the same thing, and both negative quantities. On the other side of the equation are ways that the industry keeps going. It is full of people who agree with each other, and so think they must be right. That is the gist of Laidler's equations: there are people and rules of thumb that agree with each other so they don't care if they agree with the facts. Like faith groups and political parties. The X-shapes on the diagrams are symbols rather than graphs of real numbers. The truth could be a <b>+</b> shape or a cloudier-shape made up of much thicker broader lines, but in Laidler's book we have an X.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
In English, the poet Milton is just as bad, but easier to skip. A bit like the lyrics of Freddie Mercury, or the words in <i>Ra Ra Rasputin</i> but we got him over-with pretty fast and the tutor did ask something like <i>"<span style="color: #cc0000;">why do we study Milton? - there are no characters in it, no ideas in it, and there's no humour in it (except unintentional humour like ' is this a cloud? - no it is not a cloud.')</span>."</i> And then we moved-on, wasting only a week instead of half the course for a year spent on untested microeconomic theory.<br />
<br />
<br /></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><span face=""><span face="">Passnotes</span></span>: <br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face="">preparing to t<span face="">each a <strike>tutorial</strike> / class</span></span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset style="text-align: left;">
Lecturers learn to teach their courses in different ways.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>From a critical interest that guides some original research as well as past experience of refining this into lectures and learning from students in tutorials.</b></span> Learning from original sources like statistics or some unusual research, as well as a general view of how the world works, keeping-up with some of the usual secondary sources like the Treasury Select Committee, the most promising books, news, maybe the odd journal, noting students' own thoughts and current events, then boiling it down to what's important each year. This is hard work for the money in year one but should get easier. Some people work so hard at it that they end-up writing a book themselves. Some get to work on research projects that the department is comissioned to do. Others learn a bit from students: the Begg economics textbook has a great chaptor on the stock exchange, but very little about the dole. Professor Begg did economics tutorials at Oxford Uni. <br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>From a textbook.</b></span> <br />
<br />
Every teacher knows what it's like to start teaching a course and just hope that there is a textbook and it's possible to stay one chapter ahead of the class. If the class and the teacher have similar textbooks or the same one, order will be maintained. If similar, the teacher can throw-in little expertise from the other book. <complete id="goog_1974487480"></complete><br />
<br />
If the teacher has the same book as the students, it saves the students from taking notes in the same way; the teacher can try to explain the textbook and say which parts are relevant. <i>"Looking at the textbook page 440, figure 19.2, do you think the 1979 monetarist policy worked for the UK?"</i><br />
<br />
There might be a set of teachers' notes as well, somewhere like <a href="https://www.core-econ.org/">Core-econ.org</a> Before the Internet, there might still have been teachers' editions of Lipsey's economics textbook for the most taught and technical part of the subject. Lipsey was the main textbook in the 70s, used a Keele before a funding crisis made it impossible for the Department of Economis and Management Science to buy anything new that might mention the recession. Students had to pay something like £20 for Begg's first edition textbook that has a few snippets and updates about the crisis, but the Department of Economics and Management Science still has some edition of Lipsey, pre-recession.<br />
<br />
Pre-rescession textbooks had a lot about demand-management, and there was a very good memory aid and bit of exam technique for how some bits of the economy boost demand and some not. In 1962 it had been suggested as a real model of how the world worked in a couple of journal articles, but by the 1980s it was presented as a memory-aid, written on printed graphs without any numbers down the sides.<br />
<br />
Wikipedia quotes a deceptively neat, rather smug set of four graphs interacting with each other called ISLM that were most likely in book like Samuelson and Lipsey through the 70s. They can "easily be expanded" to cover international trade with a further couple of graphs. People remember them for the exam and then forget them; they are not much to do with real life.<br />
<br />
<i><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgE7VtJHfi5lrPV079U5LskkyWklbWnXV3Pymufjc5OyL3LhCSaMTqbQ5Aiyci0b1uKV2Bwb9XYyccB06g__xlmySBUae1_R7dXHkKams-SZXYdGMT4v9h6Xjfd-vl0_auoKKlO6sVKkpp_/s1600/scan169.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="660" data-original-width="496" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgE7VtJHfi5lrPV079U5LskkyWklbWnXV3Pymufjc5OyL3LhCSaMTqbQ5Aiyci0b1uKV2Bwb9XYyccB06g__xlmySBUae1_R7dXHkKams-SZXYdGMT4v9h6Xjfd-vl0_auoKKlO6sVKkpp_/s320/scan169.jpg" width="240" /></a></i>The book on students' desks is a mystery to the person teaching the course. I don't know why he didn't borrow one off a student. It shows the same four graphs without much pretense at them all interacting with each other or being true, and then ends with the vital 1980s one about imports and exports if the government fiddles the exchange rate and kills-off so much of industry. The black line, which goes up, is the chance of importing cheap goods and the reduced chance of getting a job after graduating<i>. </i>People who argue for a high pound and free trade - people like some brexiteers - are keen to say that cheap imports benefit the poor who are more able to buy socks or whatever. But the poor are also less able to work in a sock factory, and anyway there are other ways of getting cheap socks like finding a sock shop with a lower margin such as Primark or a market stall, and spending less on credit and advertised brands, so there are things government can do to help the poor buy socks<br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>By panicking and then finding a way to survive the embarassment</b></span><br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
The lecturer who usually did international trade could use some vintage teachers' edition textbook in some library back-catalogue. <br />
<br />
There were some Lipsey textbooks in the main library. Or any old notes found at home and from asking-around, and memories of some course decades-back. Teachers look a bit odd if they sit-in in other teachers' lectures and tutorials, and this is more of a handicap before YouTube; teachers have to start from scratch, but maybe there was a Lipsey Teachers' Edition for the teaching of demand management macro-economics that could be found somewhere. A classic macro economic course says next to nothing about the supply of more competitive goods, or why they might start coming from another country while employment drops. The <i>Begg</i> textbook (the one students were asked to buy) has four pages to the supply side of the economy in the macro-economic section. Most of it is about demand management and <i>"the limits of keynsian monetarist economics"</i>. The bit about demand management has a different emphasiss to textbook the teacher used. It has four graphs for interest rates, liquidity, money supply, and savings, but no numbers down the sides so it's unlikely that anyone thought they were true. There is no attempt to put them into a memory-aid, like the points of a compass, with lines between them and call them a macro-economic model. All the emphasis is on a newly important part of the system - an extra graph to try to show the effects of imports and exports in an open economy, and there is thre graph at the top of this blog post <i>("...if you turn to your textbooks on page 440, figure 19.2...")</i> about UK unemployment, caused by this high pound. The style of the book is deadpan, but the meaning is rather different. It might as well read...<br />
<br />
. <i><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgE7VtJHfi5lrPV079U5LskkyWklbWnXV3Pymufjc5OyL3LhCSaMTqbQ5Aiyci0b1uKV2Bwb9XYyccB06g__xlmySBUae1_R7dXHkKams-SZXYdGMT4v9h6Xjfd-vl0_auoKKlO6sVKkpp_/s1600/scan169.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="660" data-original-width="496" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgE7VtJHfi5lrPV079U5LskkyWklbWnXV3Pymufjc5OyL3LhCSaMTqbQ5Aiyci0b1uKV2Bwb9XYyccB06g__xlmySBUae1_R7dXHkKams-SZXYdGMT4v9h6Xjfd-vl0_auoKKlO6sVKkpp_/s320/scan169.jpg" width="240" /></a>"The plane is now on fire so we are going to land at sea. Please follow the guidelines to the nearest exit after landing and inflate your jackets only after leaving the plane. Once safely in the Atlantic we can blow morse code messages on our whistles to attract help. The messages are moulded-in to the whistles as dots and dashes."</i> <br />
<br />
The full quote from Begg is under <i>"The Pound in the 70s"</i> quoted in full further down the page. There's another long section in the micro-economics section that describes exactly how so many factories were forced to go bust by a high interest rate and high exchange rate. People studying other subjects might not know this. It depends what newspapers they read. They might think there is a slight blip in unemployment caused by closure of inefficient nationalized industries and a few inefficient private ones somehow caught-up. People studying economics don't seem quite sure either. My international trade lecturer, trying to cobble-up a macro-economics class outside his main subject, uses an older textbook and a different set of diagrams. The highlight of the course is to combine them together into a bit chart called <i><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=four+quadrant+ISLM&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim06vu3dbSAhWID8AKHSUyAjUQ_AUICCgB&biw=1233&bih=902">four-quadrant IS-LM</a></i>. Click on the link to an image search to see what sort of thing it is or scroll-down to "<span face="">the teaching of my course</span>". I think I mention it twice for some reason.<br />
</li>
</ul>
The parts of the course fit together like the standard parts used to make a the Morris Marina and Morris Ital, and somehow te thing drives, even if the gear box would have been better in a front wheel drive car or the shock absorbers were meant for a mini. Oddly the <i>ISLM</i> standard part is very very close to the subject that everyone in the UK is worried about - whether government economic policies are making things worse, but it is not that. It is about memorising what to write in an exam if a curve moves up or down on a certain chart with letters written next to it. The chart is complicated because the letters don't have words next to them to say what they stand for. It's complicated because the mechanism of cause and effect depends on the angles of some lines, but there are no numbers to say whether the line should be at one angle or another - that's up to a different rank of economist to work-out, so if you are interested or doubt their judgement, it's a big distraction. Lastly, the cause and effect is shown by moving lines around with dotted lines to show how they intersect, which looks rather overwhelming.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A rule of thumb: economists do not predict recessions</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There is an rule of thumb: economists do not predict recession. This could be because economists studied in a boom. Their textbooks put all the messy stuff about recession and economic mess-ups in the background. At the end of the course, there are jobs around and these students are happy to go-on and teach this stuff. Other people studied economics in a recession while their college was short of cash and just taught whatever was cheapest to teach, to the largest possible number of students, using a pre-recession textbook in my case, and students sat and scowled-back, never to think about economics again after graduating. They loose all patience with the subject and forget about it - there are no jobs to be had teaching it anyway. You'll meet them serving you coffee or working in social services or teaching english as a foreign language in Mongolia or doing something self-employed. Maybe they get a public-funded job, like a lot of Keele graduates, and may rise to become director of traffic for a region or something like that. That is my economic theory, ready for publication in any journal on the Keele List. Economic theories have a bumpy ride in the USA where a lot of the textbooks and journals are written. The idea that a government can build motorways or the Hoover Dam or somehow try to influence the economy in a recession is a big deal there. Doing it is fine but getting it into textbooks is a big deal. A textbook was boycotted for saying any such thing, then Samuelson's textbook said it in such pretend-scientific language that his textbook sold. There would be another bumpy ride for any economist who wrote a textbook about social insurance systems and the UK NHS so - no surprise - they don't. Or write a careful criticism of what the public sector had done well or badly when trying to plan vital parts of production during the war. A lot of them in the US were of a generation that knew about that, first hand, from emergency war-time planning of the US arms industry, but they didn't want to write about it. The standard textbook has a big section on micro-economics, then a shorter section on the macro-economics of demand, and nothing about what the UK Department for Business or development agencies do well or badly; there is nothing in the textbook about macro-economic supply. Or just four pages in Begg. <br />
<br />
Where were we?<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_xjERzcNyuaKmKTcTrwabnThij9QWlaDTa4n8tnHPVkkXqn1peUShuuWahxX-u7Cj-8MnHeuSDLeB2AkhyphenhyphenuylKXUmSip1t_LBGHlcvJfjzwnqmmieEMWF10iozQyisLCvQ6hWK8RZArwq/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_xjERzcNyuaKmKTcTrwabnThij9QWlaDTa4n8tnHPVkkXqn1peUShuuWahxX-u7Cj-8MnHeuSDLeB2AkhyphenhyphenuylKXUmSip1t_LBGHlcvJfjzwnqmmieEMWF10iozQyisLCvQ6hWK8RZArwq/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
Oh we were talking about a new theory and whether to get it published: the theory that economists don't predict recession. If I was an american economics professor and put that into algebra, maybe with a curve, that might get into <i>Econometrica</i>, but that's another problem with <i>Econometrica</i>. I bet they prefer articles from a proper professor with serious specs, and to be a US professor when people respected <i>Econometrica</i> you had to pretend you hadn't heard of the welfare state or anything like that and not profess anything that anyone would want to know, or you'd get a summons from the McArthy / Todd Committees and then your boss would get help from a special department at the CIA to organise unfair dismissal without a reference. A long sentence but true. Apart from the boycott of an economics textbook that mentioned macro-economics and demand management, there were a number of schemes to dismiss mis-fits from teaching in the postwar USA. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span class="byline-item">By JENNIFER HAMILTON OF THE ASSOCIATED PRESS</span> <br />
<br />
<div class="article-meta">
<div class="inner">
<div class="article-meta-main">
<i><span class="article-meta-date" style="font-size: xx-small;">Posted Mar 9, 2003 at 3:19 AM, as edited by the <a href="http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20030309/professor-says-hell-never-forgive">Herald Tribune</a> (shorter version in the Los Angeles Times)</span></i></div>
<div class="article-meta-tools a2a_kit" data-a2a-title="Professor says he'll never forgive" data-a2a-url="http://heraldtribune.com/news/20030309/professor-says-hell-never-forgive" style="line-height: 16px;">
<div class="article-meta-social">
<i><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span></i></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<i><span style="font-size: xx-small;">BOULDER, Colo. -- </span></i><br />
<br />
During the height of the 1950s Red Scare, University of Colorado philosophy professor <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/2008/02/29/cu-professor-stood-up-to-red-scare-probes/">Morris Judd</a> was fired amid rumours he was a communist. He never worked in education again. Half a century later, Judd has learnt that the man responsible was Robert Stearns, the university’s president at the time, who spied on his faculty for the FBI, according to newly declassified documents. <br />
<br />
<div class="ad-container">
</div>
In a telephone interview from his home in Sun City, Ariz., Judd said he’ll never forgive Stearns. <i>“He was responsible for my leaving teaching,”</i> Judd said. <i>“He attacked me personally, saying I was a dull teacher, then that I was incompetent, all the while because there were rumours that I was a radical and a communist.”</i> To this day, Judd, 86, refuses to say whether he belonged to the party. Stearns died in 1977, and his relatives have declined comment. During the height of McCarthyism in the early 1950s, it was not unusual to see allegations of political disloyalty made without evidence to accompany them, said Ellen Schrecker, who studies the era of Sen. Joseph McCarthy’s hunt for communist sympathisers. <i>“We seem to be discovering that this kind of thing was going on at several campuses,”</i> said Schrecker, a history teacher at Yeshiva University in New York. She said many campuses during the Cold War had an FBI contact person, such as the secretary of a dean. The revelations about Stearns are contained in reports that were kept in a bank vault until late last year, when the university’s Board of Regents released them under the threat of a lawsuit by the <a href="http://www.dailycamera.com/archivesearch" title="results pop-up in a separate tab after a pause. date ranges revert to recent unless re-set each time. Results show snippets from some pay to view articles about Judd, and a similar case about a handful of school teachers.">Daily Camera newspaper in Boulder</a>. The newspaper also filed open-records requests seeking FBI documents. The papers show that Stearns ordered a probe by two former FBI agents to investigate the faculty for subversives at the urging of the Colorado Legislature after it was revealed that CU professor David Hawkins belonged to the Communist Party. In a 1954 interview, Stearns assured the FBI that most professors with <i>“pinkish influences”</i> had left the campus by 1951, according to the declassified transcripts. <i>“I have kept them (the FBI) informed on each of these men so they know well what they are doing and where they have gone,”</i> Stearns told FBI interviewers. Within six months of the report’s completion, the university terminated Judd and Irving Goodman, a non-tenured chemistry professor and two-time Guggenheim fellow. The CU regents agreed to retain Hawkins. The report accused Goodman of lying about having left the Communist Party. It said Judd belonged to a Marxist literary society. When Stearns dismissed Judd, he accused him of <i>“pedestrian-ism,”</i> meaning he was a boring teacher. Judd took a job as office manager at <a href="https://business.highbeam.com/company-profiles/info/1285280/winograd-s-steel-and-supply">his father-in-law’s salvage yard</a> in Greeley. The documents’ release has prompted CU English professor Paul Levitt to call for the renaming of the <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/homecoming/alumni-awards/robert-l-stearns-award">Stearns award</a>, which honours outstanding faculty. <i>“It seems to me you don’t protect the institution by engaging in a violation of civil liberties and human rights,”</i> Levitt said. <i>“Stearns could very well have resigned. He could have said no.”</i> Stearns supporters called his actions understandable, given Cold War fears that communist sympathisers were leaking U.S. security secrets to the Soviet Union. <i>“I’m not trying to justify what he did or those times,”</i> university archivist David Hays said. <i>“But in those times he was tap dancing, he was looking for room to manoeuvre.”</i> In a letter to the CU faculty newspaper last month, alumnus Dorothy Smith of Seattle said Stearns made CU one of the first schools to accept Japanese-Americans released from World War II internment camps. He also opened his home to African-American guest lecturers when no one in town would offer them a room. <i>“He supported a variety of liberal student organisations as long as he could,”</i> alumnus and Boulder resident John Jacus said. <i>“And only when one of them was exposed as a front for the former Young Communists League was he no longer able to allow that particular organisation on campus.”</i><br />
<br />
An obituary in the Denver Post added some <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/2008/02/29/cu-professor-stood-up-to-red-scare-probes/">similar detail</a> after interviewing Paul Levitt who researched what a 126 page freedom-of-information request revealed. <br />
<br />
<i>"About 50 people on campus either left “out of disgust” or because they </i><br />
<i>worried that they, too, were under suspicion"</i>, said Levitt. </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
The 126-page file on the CU investigations was hidden in aBoulder bank vault, so few people knew the details of whom university officials suspected or how the investigations were carried out by two FBI agents brought in by Stearns.<br />
<br />
The report showed that people’s personnel, medical,financial and academic records were searched by the agents, Levitt said. Those under suspicion were followed, former CU regent Jim Martin said.<br />
<br />
It was in 2002 that Levitt and Martin pushed to have thereport released. The Boulder Daily Camera also sued to have it released, Levitt said.<br />
<br />
Levitt described the charges against CU faculty, staff and students as full of <i>“libel, innuendo, gossip, rumor and guilt by association.”</i></blockquote>
That's the professor's previous employer. He was also summoned to the Todd / McCarthy committee hearings but managed to hold down his job long enough to continue calmly to the UK, rather than have <i>"constructive dismissal over alleged bad teaching followed by work at family salvage yard"</i> on his CV. Although the professor had been through that once before, working <i>"briefly as a docker, before ... two</i> <i><i>years as an accountant at <a href="http://www.mocavo.com/Isaac-Fishman-California-Death-Record-Index-1940-1997/00544918775787262437">his father</a>'s furniture manufacturing firm in Los Angeles</i>",</i> according to an obituary by his daughter. Current students will have teachers from simlar backgrounds, particularly at school but in higher education as well. At school, it's reported on TV that the Harris acadamy chain sacks staff and pupils who don't boost Ofstead results, and there are widespread similar reports that I haven't googled. At universities, the power lies with people who get power and pay: pay rates of vice chancellors are widely reported as a scandle. There are people from other countries where political control of universities is tighter, like Turkey, who get jobs in the UK but have the same sense of how to hold-down a job as they did in Turkey. There are people who worked for nutter con-men like the <a href="https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/nigel-piercy-resigns-dean-swanseas-school-management">Professor Nigel Piercey</a> at Warwick and Swansea who are looking for ways of holding-down a job. So any economics student has to interpret their lecturers' opinions as an act of diplomacy, of stating things that are hard to complain-about, of calm. Even if untrue. That's what the professor did did. <br />
<br />
The professor's ridiculously diplomatic answer to a question was this: <i>"We used to believe on Keynsian solutions; now we believe on monetarist solutions"</i>, and it was addressed to people like the Todd and McArthy committee members, and to their local Machiavelli boss, Mr Stearns, who was the professor's boss when he worked in Colorado. In theory it was given to the student who asked the question, but, as they say in police stations, anything you say may be taken as evidence against you. The experience might have been in the US in the 1950s and 1960s, but it still effected his style of teaching in the UK in the 1980s, such as sticking to textbooks and not running tutorials. Someone asked another question about why monetarist economists were doing so much damage, and got a reply in mime: <i>"It'll be like a cold shower. [shrug] That's what they say - the people who believe in it"</i>. That was as close as the professor got to saying how we could argue-back against a disaster of an economic policy that effected most people in the room. Maybe, decades later, when Lehman Brothers collapsed, he would have mimed a shrug and said <i>"well: Gordon Brown opened their HQ in 2004 and talked about light-touch banking law". </i>Which is not a good thing to hear when you have committed years of your life to spend working for no dosh in order to study something like this, and big lumps of taxpayer money as well. Even if you would have been on the dole otherwise and you do get a £3,000 maintenance grant with free tuition. I mean: would you work for £3,000 a year to listen to that?<br />
<br />
Oh I am no expert but this is what google tells me about the event<br />
<br />
The Rt Hon Gordon Brown, MP, Chancellor of the Exchequer, said: <span style="font-style: italic;">“I would like to pay tribute to the contribution you and your company make to the prosperity of Britain. During its one hundred and fifty year history, Lehman Brothers has always been an innovator, financing new ideas and inventions before many others even began to realise their potential. And it is part of the greatness not just of Lehman Brothers but of the City of London, that as the world economy has opened up, you have succeeded not by sheltering your share of a small protected national market but always by striving for a greater and greater share of the growing global market.”</span><br />
<i></i><br />
Getting back to the 1980s, there was a pompous group of economists, and there was a pompous and rabid group of economists in the USA who's ideas had more to do with holding-down a job as an economics teacher than anything more useful.<br />
<br />
Samuelson the textbook-writer is one of the saner US economists compared to the rival school of thought, who Thatcher chooses as economic advisers. My professor is one of the saner ones too - a civil rights activist with an interest in Pete Seeger and ending the Vietnam War, who had joined an odd political party in his youth that sounded communist to the average american. Well it would do. It was called the The Communist Party USA, but he was a civil rights activist, not a plotter paving the way for tanks. The McArthy and Todd Committees must have thought so too because they got round to him quite late, after he'd got a job at Keele and showed interest in the Pedestrians Association, the Fabian Society and one of the mainstream political parties. The picture is Professor Paul Samuelson and I had Professor Les Fishman, but they all have the same high-brow haircut and serious specs. In the states these people wear suits, and when they move to the UK they buy tweed. The theory stays the same and the economy has to adapt to suit it; it is a pseudo-scientific discipline designed to resist political interference more than a technique to measure and comment. Post-war economics professors might fail degrees on the current consensus view that <span style="color: #bf9000;">"awareness / appreciation of contexts / knowledge"</span> is vital to scrape-through a course and get a degree. If you could label the traffic-lights that allow a student to get a degree, the consensus document would look like this. <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: red;"><br />
</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: red;"> ● Ignorance</span></span> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #bf9000;">● Awareness <br />
/ appreciation of contexts in which techniques are relevant <br />
/ knowledge</span> <span style="color: #38761d;"> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<span style="color: #38761d;"> ● Familiarity <br />
/ proficiency <br />
/ competent use</span> </blockquote>
For 1980s economists, the lights are reversed when it comes to any understanding of things like national insurance or the NHS. To make things worse, the ignorance is concealed. School economics describes how a lot of society works; students expect higher education to do the same, but it doesn't. The half of the economy that's public funded disappears from advanced parts of the textbooks. Economists and politicians who study them get puzzled about why something ends-up as public-funded or private-funded; about the costs of markets and the costs of public provision. They tend towards sweeping statements about the public sector, rather than parts of it. </blockquote>
There ought to be a title or heading here because the thread changes<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
If these notes seem a bit flippant for someone spending three years on a bogus economics degree during an economic crisis, it is because students are the lucky ones among their age group, even if the course makes no sense at all.. Other people the same age are <i>really</i> bored and do anything but train-spotting to pass the time, sometimes acting-out the plots of Irvin Welsh novels, or The Full Monty or Billy Elliot or <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/31/pride-film-gay-activists-miners-strike-interview">Pride</a>. Other people the same age and older are working or on strike from coal mines under the campus, thinking about the same issues. In year two I lived next to the Silverdale Colliery branch line and counted about 50 waggons of coal at about 10 miles an hour going to some power station, as miners returned to work; I am in the right place to learn about economics, except for the bit about being on an economics course. Economics, as a taught subject, seems to be a bogus one.<br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQAFDWRPF4X60LhuKGjJOlmfM6fPB4ARcXhhIZWgtFjMEnpw9RLInUaBBXkBj7QX10qT2Kcyje7mdI7QMibBbNn2K3m-_FLSUDFrpynOZGxOuGGRa-WBXfM1SOB_IYDXO0_uJv2OEURJ35/s1600/economics-for-the-eighties.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQAFDWRPF4X60LhuKGjJOlmfM6fPB4ARcXhhIZWgtFjMEnpw9RLInUaBBXkBj7QX10qT2Kcyje7mdI7QMibBbNn2K3m-_FLSUDFrpynOZGxOuGGRa-WBXfM1SOB_IYDXO0_uJv2OEURJ35/s1600/economics-for-the-eighties.jpg" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr align="right"> <td class="tr-caption"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Begg, 1984, page xix</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
People occasionally ask me questions when they discover that I'm on an economics course, like - <i>"what's the answer?"</i>. That seems a reasonable expectation of a 90-week adult education course, mainly for young people who have just passed economics A-level. If the course does not have that purpose, it should have some other clearly-stated name and purpose, like <i>"economic issue avoidance studies"</i>, or <i>"initiation ritual to weed-out non-believers</i>", so that students know not to take it. <br />
<br />
Ninety weeks on a campus, half-time, minus time spent on exams and short courses, to find out why so many parents are redundant or bust, so many student places are cut, so few job prospects exist, and life is turning in to an Irvin Welsh novel. This paragraph really belongs at the top somewhere.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">Digresion on Digressons</span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">Please excuse this prose; it makes no great sense. It is a series of notes cobbled-together and just leads where it goes. I had no idea what I was going to write about when I started, but just felt an urge to write about the wierdness of this economics course and about the 80s recession, which I kept trying to summerise in an introduction, over and over again, and sometimes remembering to merge them or delete them.<br />
<br />
Sometimes a long-bit spins-off into another more coherent blog post. <br />
<br />
Further down there is a more structured bit with recent student feedback questionarre questions next to what happened in the 80s, so it does get a bit more structured later-on. <br />
<br />
By chance, Fishman himself had a similar habit. He would teach textbook till near the end of the class, and then spin-off into an anecdote. In his US days I expect they were about the wonders of the modern US economy, but, given more freedom in the UK, he preferred anecdotes about whatever came into his head of an economic kind - jumpers - warm beer - the need for welfare and the military in a third world country - things not working so well as you get older - all sorts of things. And the habit of musing about digressions is useful for keeping us all sane because it brings-in the obvious points that are not officially recognised as relevant.</span></span> </div>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"></span> <br />
<br />
<table border="25" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: left;" width="100%"><br />
<a height="auto" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s1600/scan213.jpg" width="100"><img alt="Postwar UK unemployment (excluding school leavers). Graph going off the top of the usual scale from textbook page 440" border="0" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s400/scan213.jpg" title="" width="336" /></a></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
</blockquote>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
</h2>
<h3>
</h3>
<h3>
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">The graph above is from the first edition of "<a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/economics/oclc/10907961">Economics, British Edition</a>", Begg, 1984, the main book recommended to students for background reading. Do you think anyone should say anything if the professor pretends he hasn't noticed? <input type="checkbox" /> Definitely agree | <input type="checkbox" /> Mostly agree | <input type="checkbox" /> Neither agree nor disagree | <input type="checkbox" /> Mostly disagree | <input type="checkbox" /> Definitely disagree |<input type="checkbox" /> What do people do in Greece when this happens?</span></span> </h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"></span> <br />
<br />
<table border="25" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: left;" width="100%">Someone in a class asks about <i>"Today's redundancies"</i> and why the day's factory has closed. It has just stopped making so many Servis washing machines, just an hour down the motorway in Darleston, so the student quite likely has some reason for asking, like redundant taxpayer parents who paid Fishman's double wage. One each. <i>Today's Redundancies</i> is the subject that I guess people have committed years of their lives to study and want the man to teach. Washing machine factories that sustain a welfare state and employ UK taxpayers are an endangered species and <a href="http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Wilkins_and_Mitchell">this one grew over generations of productivity & thrift</a> . <i>"I don't know ... maybe it was the design or lack of investment or something like that"</i>, says Professor Fishman out of his double-paid arse. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servis#As_a_manufacturer">Servis machines are the first ones to use microchip control panels</a>. I know this from a <a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Servis_Sapphire_1300_Washer_Dryer_9635_Control_Panel.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="" border="0" height="78" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Servis_Sapphire_1300_Washer_Dryer_9635_Control_Panel.jpg" width="320" /></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_Council">Design Centre</a> exhibit of how many components they had saved. The people who bought the brand when the factory closed still write that these are <i>"the first washing machines in the world to harness quartz technology for increased precision. This made the Servis Quartz one of the most advanced and reliable washing machines of its time. In fact some Quartz machines are still going strong today, over 30 years later."</i> <i>"They won an award from the <a href="http://www.vads.ac.uk/learning/dcsc/centre.html">Design Centre</a>"</i>, I say, in solidarity with my fellow student protester, because this is obviously about macro-economics and I'd seen the Servis exhibit at the Design Centre in London. Fishman knows about the Design Centre. He's written an article for the people who run it. <i>"Oh. - I don't know"</i>, says Fishman out of his arse To quote <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-nina-fishman-dynamic-labour-and-social-historian-best-known-for-her-work-on-trade-unions-1879739.html">an obituary</a>, Fishman loses <i>"</i><i><i>any chances he had of reaching academic stardom</i>"</i> in my eyes. Apparently his generation of US economists could all be stars if they had a reasonable amount of talent. They pretended to have been the first to have discovered loads of rather obvious facts to write in <i>Econometrica</i> and called it a subject, in which professors found it bad for their careers to refer to anything outside economic journals. They would use the phrase <i>"in economics"</i>, as in <i>"autism has a different meaning in economics". </i>I suppose if an economist had written to <i>Econometrica</i> that he wore a hat, then, <i>"in economics"</i>, he would count as the person who discovered hats and be a great man. Another Fishman obituary quotes what happened if you asked someone from this background a question that wasn't answered in the text book: <i>"I don't believe you have the right to ask me that question. I have the right to freedom of association..."</i></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
</blockquote>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
</h2>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Recessions follow wars. Recessions follow banking and financial crisis. Recessions follow cowboy economists if governments take their advice</span> </h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiAXeSmYqsoa9LvajQKYkESbRK55hi_jR4QVKjOCOiccszKpKT88WcR0QWBLkErBpGJO7IFArhcOcqCxX7t4jyHIgkvwsou_S6xC3cMIhOYti7oK-w1oOdyF4uTdTXQJrHDmzYjQ1vLqVGT/s1600/monetary-policy-from_int_inf2%255B1%255D.gif" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="191" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiAXeSmYqsoa9LvajQKYkESbRK55hi_jR4QVKjOCOiccszKpKT88WcR0QWBLkErBpGJO7IFArhcOcqCxX7t4jyHIgkvwsou_S6xC3cMIhOYti7oK-w1oOdyF4uTdTXQJrHDmzYjQ1vLqVGT/s400/monetary-policy-from_int_inf2%255B1%255D.gif" width="400" /></a> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Thatcher's advisers had a new policy, which was to fiddle the exchange-rate upwards by whatever method, like paying over the odds to borrow government debt. All over the world, the big-scale full-time investors like fund managers would buy government stock from this mug of a government burning its taxpayers' money. <br />
<br />
Money sloshed about very quickly in the 1980s. Edward Heath said so. He came and gave a speech at Keele and quoted some big international investor like Goerge Sophos or whatever name who had told him that it just took a few clicks on a computer keyboard to move extraordinary amounts of money from one investment in one currency to another in another currency. I don't know why he said that, but I know that Edward Heath lived on cunsultancy money from the Chinese government after being an MP.<br />
<br />
Where were we? <br />
Overseas investors buying UK government stock (or anything else with related interest rates but they are interested in easy sloshes of money so it's mainly government stock)<br />
<br />
So the pound rises against the European currencies or Asian curreincies, even if they are not being manipulated the other way by more savvy governments.<br />
<br />
Exports, priced in pounds, are harder to sell; imports, priced in other currencies, are a good substitute for anything a UK factory can make. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The method for fiddling the exchange rate was called <i>"monetary policy"</i> - the bottom set of lines on the diagram. It was known that if interest rates went up, the exchange rate goes-up as more overseas investment managers sloshed their holdings around the world to take advantage of a fraction of an extra percent. It seems odd for the treasury to pay more than necessary for r borrowing, but that's what it did, and economics teaching is so bad that nobody thinks this odd. The treasury could also try to raise interest rates among banks, because it controlled the central banks' emergency lending service to them from the central bank. So other banks would not want to lend much money at less than this emergency rate, for fear of getting caught-out and lending money at less than the rate they could borrow it. The same policy effected all the big types of loan - business loans, mortgages, and consumer credit. It seems odd for the treasury to discourage loans for business investment, but that's what it did. <br />
<br />
As the exchange rate changed, exports became less possible and cheaper imports flooded-in along the bottom row of arrows on the diagram. Factories that did any exporting had to shrink a lot very fast or close. And meanwhile there was a squeeze on anything that people borrow money for, like business loans, mortgages, and consumer credit. There had been a squeeze anyway on business loans - the banks had a near monopoly on taking deposits under the 1979 banking act and were no longer interested in customers like my father who wanted business loans. Now there was a bigger squeeze. The policy closed exporting factories in such a crass way that you could call it deliberate. I do. Thatcherites would mostly eliminate manufacturing if it helped the cause of the moment, I think, because one of them says so. <a href="https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/politics/1086319/brexit-will-boost-our-economy-and-cut-the-cost-of-bmws-and-even-brie/">"We would mostly eliminate manufacturing"</a>, writes <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Minford">Professor Patrick Minford</a>, an economics professor now employed by students of Cardiff University after advising the governments of the UK and Malawi. He is an example of someone not to ask for economic advice, as many of these students suggest in their Unistats feedback. <br />
<br />
<table border="25" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2" style="width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: left;" width="100%"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><i>Inactivity rates increased following the recession, reaching a peak of 23.2% (7.82 million) in the summer of 1983, with most of the increase accounted by males</i></b></span></span> <br />
- J Jenkins of the Office for National Statistics in Economic and Labour Market Review, August 2010. There is no link because stats series have changed and the government web site people have been asked not to provide a direct link I suppose - you have to search.</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<br />
There were subtleties too, but they didn't make things any better. North sea oil exports had already rigged the exchange rate against UK manufacturing in a way the Norwegian exports didn't because of a different system - the tax money went into a fund. The UK system was that the government was short of cash and needed it at all costs. So there was already a market that would reduce inflation but make exports harder and put people out of work, but that wasn't noticed in UK politics or economists.<br />
<br />
There was a tradition in UK politics of cabinet ministers wanting a strong pound. Churchill was keen in the 1930s. So there were very poor job prospects for anyone a job competing with people from the rest of the world, like manufacturing jobs competing with migrant labour, or goods from the Dominion of India with its sweatshops in places like Rana Plaza, Bangladesh. The person who's job can be done by a migrant. <br />
<br />
There is a tradition in UK politics of thinking that people in Bangladesh do not need to have compulsory insurance schemes or a welfare state in order to sell to the UK. It was introduced to the EU tariff system for Bangladesh after special pleading from the UK government, <i><u>p-l-e-e-d-i-n-g</u> t-o m-a-k-e p-e-o-p-l-e i-n <u>B-a-n-g-l-a-d-e-s-h</u> & <u> t-h-e U-K</u> b-o-t-h <u>p-o-o-r-e-r</u></i> and has made Bangladeshis and people in the UK poorer ever since. Other EU politicians have introduced special schemes for leather from Ethiopia or all goods from Mexico, dispite the unfair competition involved, so I expect there are other people peeding to make Ethiopians and Europeans poorer, with the same success. And the cows.<br />
<br />
Containerized shipping made world trade far cheaper in container-sized lumps than it had been. So the policy made a bad situation worse. Things were not so bad in the home counties and London, where my parents had a house. Looking at a national newspaper in Northern Ireland I was surprised that the job ads were the same. I assumed from London that the ads were different in different parts of the UK, but everyone read those same job ads together, like the telesales ads pretending to be something to do with journalism, or the Richmond Fellowship Holly Lodge that kept The Guardian in business with its ads for live-in volunteer work and jobs that would now pay below the minimum wage. Newham Community Renewal Programme had a bit turnover too. Officially the economic policy was called the "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatcherism#Thatcherite_economics">Medium Term Financial Strategy</a>", and was measured by something called Sterling M3 - a briefly fashionable measure of something that can be measured and so pleases a school of economic thought, but doesn't relate very clearly to anything else, like the shape of clouds or the pitch of bird-song. There was no monetary policy committee before 1997 - decisions in the early 80s were made by the chancellor Geoffrey Howe in public, and his boss's american academic economic advisers in private. The fact that Howe resigned with a <a href="https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1990-11-13a.461.2">speech about currencies</a> suggests that, in the early 80s, Thatchers' economic advisers from the USA made most of the decisions and that problems with the exchange rate even troubled the chancellor. Unemployment reached three and a half million including half a million on government schemes, if you take a few minster's quotes from <i>Hansard</i> for the target numbers that the biggest ones were meant to employ and round-up to account for the little ones. On top of that number were a growing number of sick people, and people excluded from statistics for thirteen different reasons like <i>"excluding school leavers"</i> quoted above the graph. There was another exclusion of everyone over 60. Or maybe it was 55 - all called economically inactive instead of unemployed. We had a few essays to write about early 1980s unemployment stats, which I forget and so have googled information just recently. If inactivity rates for males of working age are higher than usual, they were higher still in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longton,_Staffordshire">Longton</a> which had about the second worst unemployment rates in the UK as well as some of the best integration of factories and housing to allow easy delivery between factories and allowing people to walk to work. What could be one of the best places to live and work in manufacturing became one of the worst places to find a job, because of the manufacturing link.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""><DIGRESSION ON FORGOTTEN RECESSION></span></span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
I don't know the exact figures for Longton because series of data changed just a year or two later, which is one reason why the 80s recession isn't remembered: people at the time faced series of printed data called things like <i>Economic Trends</i> which were obscure and hard to find in libraries because nobody knew what to do with them. By the time computers became cheap for number-crunching, there was a slightly different series of data on unemployment that starts in the late 80s according to international standards, forgetting the figures which were altered in so-many different ways in the early 80s to try to reduce the unemployment count. In the 21st Century it's easier to google figures from speeches in parliament which give the numbers on the Comunity Programme, Youth Opportinities, and another one. The people making the speeches had some trouble getting facts as well - <a href="https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1983-02-22a.806.2#g838.4">John Forester MP admitted as much in a good speech about the official figures</a> . The office of national statistics appeared to work for ministers and manderins like Sir Clous Moser, it's former chief, rather than taxpayers or MPs.<br />
<br />
We had lectures and suggested essay titles about the number of ways that unemployment figures were fiddled in the early 80s by the likes of Sir Clous Moser, who has a building named after him on the Keele campus. There is a link to the 1930s recession, which was also caused by high exchange rates imposed on the people of the UK, alongside tariffs from other countries and tricky situations like deaths from a new form of flu effecting populations weakened by war, huge UK navel spending, and frustration in the colonies and protectorates and dominions, leading to tariffs on UK goods from Canada. Provision for the unemployed in the 80s is a lot better than last time the numbers were so high. In the 1930s national insurance was new and a lot of people only had workhouses to fall-back on. Like Geoge Orwell in <i>Down and Out in Paris and London</i>. Workhouses in turn only had local, devolved funding to fall back on I guess- or at least that was the situation in the Irish famine a lifetime earlier. 20-teens thinking is this is <a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/democracy-decency-and-devolution-speech.html">more efficient because local</a>. Unemployment, like low pay now, is invisible. Most effected in the 1980s are people of student age and our redundant or ceased-trading parents. In my case, my mother returns to work doing temping jobs she doesn't like and my dad has less success at doing the same while his business runs-down. That's probably typical; dads are glum. Industrial areas like the midlands near Keele are much more effected than London. Future jobs are so unlikely that they're not even talked about, except as a joke. <i>Not the Nine O'Clock News</i> repeated <i>"today's redundancies"</i>, little altered, as a sketch. It ends something like <i>"Mrs Buggin's cake shop created three new jobs in Hampshire". The Young Ones</i> has a pretend interview with a college careers adviser who says <i>"there is hope..."</i>, as there was, but is interrupted by crass students. <i>"Tacky schemes to get them off the register"</i>, as the minister describes schemes like the Community Program in his diary, employ another half million. The Community Programme becomes one of the biggest employers of graduates in the UK according to a rep for the scheme, dispute requiring two years' unemployment for employees. It's lucky that universities kept people off the dole. That was one logical reason to keep them open. But Keele's budget was cut by 34%. The historian John Kolbert who wrote a factual history of Keele for the university found it <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-can-i-get-kickstart-installed-no.html">rejected by a new Vice Chancellor</a> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"The way in which you write about this period (1979 onwards) takes on an overtly political tone ... a book with these political overtones would be a sad and inaccurate statement of Keele's image of itself."</i></blockquote>
So hierarchy trumps fact in what the boss chief writes, just as it did in the world of 1960s economics where my old professor made his career. There is no need for hierarchy to argue-back, so it doesn't; it uses vague emotive phrases. I mean, if you wrote those three lines in an essay you'd be asked for something clearer, wouldn't you? They're like something out of <i>Absolutely Fabulous</i>. No wonder the book - even the version privately published by John Kolbert - doesn't give any background to the pressures on economics teachers to teach rubbish in a recession. It's a hidden subject. The book mentions qualms from the central government funding body about Russian Studies, but nothing about Economics or why the interesting parts of the course were dropped, except the 34% funding cut, and even that was too much for the university. As the author <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-can-i-get-kickstart-installed-no.html">told a journalist</a> <br />
<blockquote>
<i>"<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-can-i-get-kickstart-installed-no.html">for example when Keele's budget was cut by 34% in 1981 .... What am I meant to do, pretend it didn't happen?</a>"</i></blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></span></span> </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></DIGRESSION ON FORGOTTEN RECESSION></span></span> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations</a> <span style="color: red;"> </span></h3>
<blockquote>
<span style="color: red;">I wrote some on another page. People often write that the 80s recession, loss of industry, the deficit, and effect on a generation, were probably something to do with liberal reforms. Google the same point made alongside an opposite one on other sites like "economics help", which that the government fiddled the exchange rate. The 1984 Begg textbook agrees.</span> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">My 1980s recession explanations agree too</a><span style="color: red;">. My 1980s economics course seemed designed to stop students from finding-out.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The next box here is a lost introduction that needs to go somewhere. Next come structured points about a long-forgotten economics course that must have been typical. It's relevant now to me, to anyone who wonders why economics teachers missed the 2008 recession coming-along, and to Keele Uni which is usually about number one for student satisfaction and has had some really good economics teaching - mainly in the time just before I was there.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
If this page was structured, the punch line would be that this awful course could have been one of the best compared to the others like the PPE one that Cameron and Balls went-on about the same time, probably with the same text book but not the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">Keith Smith</a> one or the emphasis on facts and prose and diagrams over algebra. There was no great motive for writing to start with except the weirdness of studying economics at the height of one of the biggest baddest UK economic events of the 20th century: a flood of imports caused by high interest rates, high exchange rate, and high tolerance of sweatshops among those who set the tariffs. All of it more-or-less unknown to the macro-economics syllabus or the debates on the meaning of "average" and "indifference" among victorian mathmaticians - suitable for second year study after a previous indroductory course, according to the Laidler textbook. Some of the people most effected by an economic car-crash were students listening to economists say blatantly stupid things and ignore the important things that caused hurt. Dads were worst effected. Mums were effected badly too; my mum had to become the breadwinner doing jobs she didn't enjoy, but at the time it was dads who were more used to a single long-term job in a career that expected the same. According to research by Fishman and others, people tend to find out about their fitness for a job, and how to apply, from people they know. So my dad's loss of self employment left me without much idea of a trade, even though I knew a lot about HP finance companies because he worked from home. (Eventually I discovered hostel-work jobs via the only person who kept in touch from Keele, who took a job as a live-in volunteer at a homeless hostel.) Dads are a theme of the Fishman Bursary and obituaries as well. A lot of students at Keele had redundant or ceased-trading dads, but Fishman had a loving daughter who's dad was still employed, and she thought he was such a good economist that she wrote obituaries to say so, and to tell the family story including grandad Isaac Fishman's migration from Siberia, and left money to fund the Leslie and Eleanor Fishman Bursary. The people in-and-out of cabinet jobs, like a recent prime minister and a recent shadow chancellor, studied another short economics course as part of PPE at Oxford about the same time I studied a joint-honours Economics course at Keele. They probably studied from the same textbooks and used a very similar syllabus. Their failure to have sensible debates about economics says something about the way short economics courses worked at the time. They work amongst newspaper proprietors, MPs, lobbyists and constituents who could all do with a better education in economics that every teacher wants to give and every student wants to get, but something in the boundaries of the subject, the wide range of different expectations and the way it is traditionally taught, all make a lot to write about. I understand that things have got worse since the 1980s, with more mathematical content in economics degrees and less staff / student contact time in universities. Time-out for sandwich years or a year abroad, and short pick-mix modules have made the sense of being on a course weak. Access to the Internet and touch-typing on keyboards makes study a lot easier in other ways.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Should economics teachers know about at least one economy, measure it, and discuss it with students in tutorials?</span> <span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" /> N</span><span style="color: red;">o because teachers might be summoned to the McArthy or Todd Committee, followed by unfair dismissal from Colorado University. Or a hostile government might concentrate funding cuts on one university like Keele.</span> <span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span style="color: red;">Yes because decision-makers make bigger mistakes if nobody knows how the economy works, and anyway this group of students has signed-up, the course has just enough funding to carry-on, and it's unfair to offer a maths course taught by weathermen instead.</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">I wind-up to a point, politely-put with evidence I hope, but should have put it at the start.<br />
First year economics is "a £9,000 lobotomy" according to some people who studied it at Manchester University in 2013, and it wasn't much better at Keele in 1985.<br />
<br />
This is the 2013 version from Manchester</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>First year: <br />
ECON10041 <br />
Principles of Micro and ECON10042 <br />
Principles of Macro (For those without A level economics), ECON10081 <br />
UK Micro and ECON100082 UK Macro (For those with A level economics). </i><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><i>100% of marks awarded by multiple choice exam for both Principles modules in first year. </i></li>
<li><i>UK Micro and Macro have 90% awarded by multiple choice exams and the other 10% is an essay. However, this essay is only 1,000 words long and students get 100% for handing it in on time. This means that many students don’t widely research the topic or fully engage with the material. </i></li>
</ul>
<i> Micro and Macro Principles are a delivery of neoclassical theory and students are expected to learn the theory by rote. </i></blockquote>
<i> </i> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i> There is no mention of what school of thought is being taught or that there are any other schools of thought. It is presented as facts about the world which leads to the possibility of students believing that these ideas represent indisputable truths (Section 1 (1)). <br />
<br />
Keynes is mentioned briefly in Macro Principles but the ideas presented are actually those of John Hicks and his version of Keynesian thought, rather than of Keynes himself. There is no time given to looking at the underlying assumptions in either of these two modules, very little real world application and no historical context as to where these ideas came from (Section 1 (2), (3) and (4)). Apart from the odd mention of economic growth in China and hyperinflation there is no proper analysis of how the theory taught is applied to these examples. The most concerning thing is the complete lack of critical engagement and opportunity for the students to discuss what they are learning. Tutorials comprise of working through problem sets and there is no opportunity to discuss the material in any real depth with the teaching assistants and lecturers (Section 1(6) and (7)). <br />
<br />
In UK Micro and Macro the multiple-choice structure of both exams rewards the ability to regurgitate textbook information, and fails to encourage students to think analytically about economic problems. Students become disillusioned with the wider challenges of economics and are immersed in learning a set of diagrams and equations. Furthermore, according to the mark scheme in UK Micro, marks are awarded for mentioning all the pricing theories which are taught but if a student provides an in-depth discussion of the economic implications of one or two pricing theories this goes unrewarded. In-depth analysis of theories shows a much greater economic understanding but is disregarded in place of the ability to repeat given information. This is a missed opportunity for students to learn skills of critical reflection (Section 1(6) and (7)). This system of memorising information to pass an exam leaves students with fragmented ‘bits’ of theory rather than a solid base to build economic knowledge on. </i></blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">The 1985 version at Keele was for a split course in less than half students' time. We did three subjects in year one.</span></span> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Part of the economics time was spent on statistics.</span></span> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"> The other part was a series of rules of thum</span></span>b about markets, and here my description splits between a description of teaching, which I remember slightly fondly - and the syllabus, which was a bit like the lecturer standing up on a tall ladder and pissing on the students. Nobody said anything. </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Imagine studying any technical subject at A-level, going-on to study more, and finding that a different stupid subject is taught using the same name. Imagine that the stupid subject reles its theories with each other, rather than the facts. You don't have to imagine it if you do A-level Economics and then a degree; it is blatant.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
The other students were a bit different to me. Most had chosen a popular college for two-year two-subject degrees; they would have read a few prospectuses, and I guess they knew that other university economics courses were even worse. At London School of Economics we would have seen gentlemen pleasuring themselves with mathematics. And the writer of our back-up reference book, David Laidler, did the same for second and third year students at Western Uni in Canada..</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote>
<span face="" style="color: red;"><Digression: rude to lecturers vaguely remembered></span></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote>
If I met these people face to face, which I didn't do at the time, it would be a bit awkward to say that the lectures were like someone standing up on a ladder and pissing on the students. The person who gave cow theory (development studeies) lectures got up on a ladder and pissed on the students too. What if I met both at once? I mean to be rude about the syllabus and not the lecturer, but, face to face, I'd have to admit some overlap. The lecturers did not walk-out. They applied for the jobs. One of them tried to bring examples about the housing market into his lectures and wrote to the textbook writer with suggestions, acknowledged in the second edition. The other moved-on to teaching international trade and tax when his boss changed, according to Web.archive.org and google books. I remember that keele lecturers lectured well.. But they were part of a system and the truth is that I am quite rude to everyone in the system. </blockquote></blockquote><p><br />Update 2020<br />The <a href="https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Johns%2C+Richard+Anthony%22" target="_blank">international trade lecturer</a> wrote similar points about teh subject of economics in his 1984 book, which is available for reading an hour at a time or more on web archive. I have got up to page 19<br /><a href="https://archive.org/details/internationaltra0000john/page/n19/mode/2up">https://archive.org/details/internationaltra0000john/page/n19/mode/2up</a> He prints some quotes about how split the area of study is, with scientific pretensions interpreted by people like students as fact, or fiction, or a jumbled "faction", often presented by people who manipulate greek symbols and lack critical nous or historical perpective. He also mentions learning from the reactions of students of International Relations, and of Economics, at Keele.<br /></p><p> </p>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote>
There are loads of people in the higher education industry who allow stupid economics courses to carry-on because they are taken-in by the idea of micro-economic theories trying to agree with each other, rather than agree with the facts of the economy. Somebody even even offered a job to Patrick Minford, the man who wrote <i>"we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, but that should not be seen as a bad thing"</i> - that was at Cardiff, rather than Keele, and Cardiff now has about the least popular economics degree on unistats, so he has mostly eliminated employment teaching economics at Cardiff Uni, but someone did not see that as a bad thing.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote>
Many of the people to insult are students who apply for the courses, including myself at the time, and all the advisers around them. I have insulted a very large number of people who are unlikely to meet me all at once face-to-face. Anyway, I am happy to talk about this rudeness face-to-face rather than take it off an obscure blog. Otherwise I would be even more rude to millions of people, including my own parents and other Keele students, who suffered crazed economic policies and unfair government budgeting without any way of arguing-back or judging how much was their fault for not running a business or getting a job, and how much was the fault of stupid grim-faced economics students who apply to keep bad courses going, stupid higher education people who tick the boxes and think the courses are alright, and economics lecturers who get-up on a tall ladder and piss on the students.<br />
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></Digression: rude to lecturers vaguely remembered></span></span></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<Digression on awkwardness></blockquote>
There is video of David Cameron MP's experesson when asked about government loans to help the last deep coal mine run as a staff co-op for a while in order to pay-back the loans and pay redundancy money. David Cameron was an Oxford student in the early 80s and his expression suggests that he had no idea what was going-on.<br />
<br />
I recall that stats part of my course using computers - without much success but against all the odds - to do some kind of fact-based excercise. I recall studying interesting statistics - or at least the headings - for different kinds of unemployment and different changes in the way it was counted. So the impression is of a course sometimes better than whatever Mr Cameron's network knew<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">We'd studied rules of thumb about markets before, at A-level, and they're listed in the Begg textbok that students had to buy. They're put in an anecdotal, prosaic way as examples that make sense in context and can be illustrated with a diagram. At A-level, it seemed a rather silly part of the course that seemed to be for people who were a bit thick, and was contracted to a different teacher on a lower pay scale, but I suppose it's easier to talk about markets if everyone has had the basic training and that I learned something along the way. I assumed that was the end of rules of thumb.<br />
<br />
The degree version was different.</span></span> You have to see a bit of Laidler's <i>Microeconomics</i> text book to believe it; it is not what any sane student would signed-up to study.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Presented as pure theory, even on BA courses (I suppose the BSc courses have algebra as well as graphs) and the theory attempts internal consistency. If this is true, then that is true, then the third things is true. The theory is not to be used in models, as a starting point to compare with reality. The theory is taught for its own sake as a kind of hobby, and stripped of all reference to reality. Price becomes P, quantity becomes Q, and so-on, just to make it look more technical and harder to track. The behaviour or P&Q are derived from the previous lecture, and on to the next one, for ever. <br />
<br />
Any student hopes that this awful start will lead to something better. Maybe the theory will lead to a model that says "theory predicts x and reality is a little off, so think of your own ways to expand on that". But my Laidler textbook had none of that - it was entirely about the internal consistency of various graphs and jargon words which were almost impossible to read because so irrelevant; there is nothing at the end of the book about testing against reality as a model. Instead, the book suggests that reality should follow the theory be told-off; it is "a way of thinking", according to the Laidler textbook.</span></span><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><br />
<br />
Why don't people walk out? I suppose that students hope this will lead somewhere. But, as a graduate, I can tell you that it didn't. We may as well have memorised random numbers or painted coal white.<br />
<br />
Edinburgh University has ceased teaching undergraduate economics degrees after protests, so maybe the rest who teach this stuff will do the same soon and avoid ripping-off students.</span> </span> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">The teaching <span face=""></span>on my <span face=""></span>course</span></span>(this comes round twice)</span></span></span></span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><b><span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">Staff...</span></span></b> 1.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face="">are</span> good at explaining things. 2.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> made the subject interesting. 3.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> are enthusiastic about what they are teaching <span face=""></span><b><span face="">The <span face="">C</span>ourse...</span></b> 4.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> is intellectually stimulating</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""> - National Student Su<span face="">r</span>vey</span></span> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><span face="">...</span><i><span face=""> </span> increasing critical facility and independence as the [core] course progresses.</i><i>... foster active learning. A variety of approaches to managing the learning process may be adopted to achieve this, including</i> <i>lectures</i>, <i>seminars</i>, <i>tutorials,</i> <i>workshops,</i> <i>peer teaching and learning,</i> <i>project-based learning<span face="">,</span></i> <i>experiments,</i> <i>games and technology-enabled learning - Quality Assurance Agency consensus statement</i></span></blockquote>
On a Keele economics course it is just possible for a student to talk to Professor Les Fishman, chief, who got his first permanent teaching job in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_tenure_in_North_America#From_1940_to_1972">America in 1955 when there were more professor jobs than applicants to fill them</a>. The academic stars of the time were so bad that it seemed anybody could have a go. BF Skinner, the psychologist, discovered that if he hurt his pet it made a noise, and did it for the rest of his career despite mass walk-outs from his lectures, which he livened-up with sexist jokes. Fishman is much saner and more sensible than that. He has two or three decades of experience in the role and two or three times the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom">average wage</a> , mainly paid out of taxes. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"In post-war America his political commitment wrecked any chances he had of reaching academic stardom in the United States once McCarthyism took root so he quit America to bring his family to Britain after winning a Ford Foundation fellowship to work in the economics department of Cambridge, where his mentor colleague was <a href="http://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:rap747dir/read/single#page/10/mode/2up">Professor Nicholas Kaldor</a>. Later Fishman moved on to Keele University where he was appointed the first Chair in Economics. It was under his umbrella of inspiration..." - <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-nina-fishman-dynamic-labour-and-social-historian-best-known-for-her-work-on-trade-unions-1879739.html">obituary of Nina Fishman</a> who sounds nice in small doses. Well they both do. I only met the older Fishman, and only in the sense of staring at him across a room for three years and trying not to scowl too obviously while he delivered a scam of a course that should have been on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Traders_%28TV_series%29">Rogue Traders</a>. Worse still, other technical teaching at colleges, other economics courses and economists were worse, without the excuse of 34% budget cuts. This awful one was sometimes a lot better than the others and had been quite good a year or two earlier. "he remained a passionate believer in socialism, but looked at new developments in capitalism with lively interest" - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/mar/18/1">obituary of Leslie Fishman</a> by Nina Fishman</i></blockquote>
Fishman shows no sign of knowing what national insurance is, as the role of the state - he just uses the american term "<a href="http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/wstate.htm">welfare</a>". Economists are often ignorant this way; colleges prefer it when recruiting students. They go for the maths and science people. Fishman didn't have much encouragement from students, either, in <a href="http://www.crmvet.org/lets/6506wolf.htm">a previous job in the 1960</a>s, which sounds like force-feeding of suffragettes. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Fishman's first observation was the lack of ability on the part of the students to grasp ideas from a textbook. In a way, he has to spoon feed the text, but on the other hand, they won't do any permanent good if they can't develop a little independent thinking among the students." - Collected letters of a civil rights activist who stayed the night with Fishman at Colorado Uni in the 1950s or 60s </i></blockquote>
Economists are often like this as well. It doesn't strike them - or not in public - that the textbook might be stupid, or the course badly-described to applicants, useless, or misleading. If the textbooks worked from real examples of problems to theory, rather than the other way around then they'd cover relevant theory one time, with examples, rather than irrelevant theory spoon-fed. The students had something to do with this as well. In the US in the 50s and 60s, a high priority was to avoid conscription. If that meant learning the same thing over and over again, why worry?<br />
<br />
Fishman allowed some better teaching in his UK job. He has allowed problem-solving workshops in year two and three; he has allowed teaching of macro-economics about the welfare state and pension costs instead of the usual 1930s stuff, despite continuing to use the word <i>"welfare"</i> himself. Then in the early 80s, shortage of cash forced him back into old habits of teaching a class from one end of a room about quasi-mathematical equations and saying <i>"we"</i> for economists - both of them ways of holding down a job and looking technical rather than teaching. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Normal service will not be resumed</span> </h4>
If I read a clear prospectus in the year I applied - 1982 - it could have boasted a course with problem-solving <i>"workshops"</i> of six students. This is something that the post crash economics society ask for, if I remember right. I don't know how well it worked. I know that a lot was still in-place when I studied at Keele - there was still a broad lecture course and someone trying to make micro-economics slightly funny, so I suppose there was a lot of introductory theory taught in the early 80s - the <i>"bracing routine"</i> as one lecturer puts it, alongside <i>"workshops"</i> in subjects like the funding of the welfare state in the long-term or the best ways of promoting innovation in industry to pay for it. So I have no example of a course that starts with an economic subject, as an English Studies tutor starts with a book, and asks students to go away and come back with something to say about it. I just have evidence that there was a lot more of that a year or two before I studied. I think that college prospectuses should explain why they teach theory first or fact first, because, in other subjects, it is usual to start with facts. If a department has no explanation for starting with theory, then maybe they should think of an explanation or start with facts. If the theory is so complicated that only a Genius Great Man in the history of your nation state can think of it (like apples falling off apple trees), then there could be a good reason to teach theory first, but I think there is a bit of give-and-take needed on both sides of the argument. Here are some advantages to starting with fact. I write from experience of doing a Nuffield Physics A-level, which was based on fact. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Easy</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Real problems would have made the theory a lot easier to remember, and saved time in revision later-on. I think this is a consensus, but not acted-on. Part of the teaching could quote examples; other parts like revision notes or a textbook could just quote the theory</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">True</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
Rules of thumb get written-up in one context and then prove wrong in another. Here are two contexts.</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Highly organised skilled workers work at a highly profitable steel furnace. They have the power to set some kind of pay deal, and might build-in an expectation of inflation to each years' deal, which helps cause a habit of inflation by raising steel prices. A shock to the economy might end the practise and end this cause of inflation. So the worst economic policy in the world - anything that causes a shock - becomes a good thing.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Similar steel workers work at a marginally-profitable steel furnace, but don't own it or control it. A shock to the economy makes losses un-sustainable anyway. The heat is turned-off and the hearth cracks-up, as steel works do when they are turned-of. The tools can't be used again, as often happens when a factory site closes. The site is cleared and equipment scrapped. Someone has to pay redundancy payments, unemployment benefits or sickness benefits. Central government also funds a scheme called a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_Garden_Festival">garden festival</a> to cover-up the site, paying people an enhanced rate of dole to stand around and pretend to be on job training for a new career like gardening. In Sheffiled, a steel factory was turned into a shopping centre in another attempt at regeneration.<br />
</li>
</ul>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The rule of thumb that could help reduce a habitual inflation at the first furnace is a very bad theory at the second furnace, where it leads to less steel, less jobs, and less competition to make steel. By the way, economists have never quite got the hang of the welfare state with services like the NHS that have to be paid-for in the UK, so they're not good at saying why imports from China or India might be unfair or a UK steel works marginal because of unfair competition. They're badly educated.</div>
This is from the Post Crash Economics Society, linked to an overly mathematical course at Glasgow University in the 20-teens: <i>"economists teach “theories now known to be untrue” (Joffe, 2011). These include: the <a href="http://www.res.org.uk/view/art6Oct13Features.html" title="It has been known for over 60 years that in manufacturing at least, the U-shaped average cost curve is rare - estimates range from 5 to 11 per cent of firms. Nevertheless, it is ubiquitous in textbooks, and presented as a general truth. Unfortunately, the historical discussion of this issue became diverted into whether or not this finding ‘invalidated marginalist theory’, which is odd given that the theory is tautologously true. We ought to stop teaching the U-shape as the typical relationship between costs and scale, for the simple reason that it is false.- footnoted to Eiteman, W J and Guthrie, G E (1952) ‘The shape of the average cost curve’, American Economic Review 42, 832-38; see also Blinder et al., op cit.">U-shaped cost curve</a> (and marginalist pricing in general), expected utility theory, Real Business Cycle explanations of recessions. In our experience, lecturers often note in passing - or if questioned - that these theories are not particularly illuminating, yet they remain on the curriculum. This is completely unacceptable"</i>. This is unfair on the tutors as well as the students, but I would frame the problem another way. I think that most economic rules of thumb made sense to somebody somewhere once. Removing them from that context that is the problem. Obviously a U-shaped cost curve is a good rule of thumb in a kitchen of a workshop in any particular month. Attempts to make it a more universal and pure mathematical theory might be a less good rule of thumb to students on a mathematical economics course in Glasgow in the 20-teens, or the person who wrote a journal article claiming that only 5% of firms have a U-shaped cost curve.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Educational</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I think this is a consensus point. The standard checklist now mentions an ability to explain an economic point of view to others. There is video of Sir Keith Joseph, the scary economist who was minister of education in the mid 80s. He is trying to talk to a group of students, but basically being mobbed by them and shouting back. More recently, Professor Patrick Minford of Economists for Free Trade told the Treasury Select Committee that the Chancellor was <i>"economically illiterate"</i>. Ya-boo.<br />
<br />
This is the Keele Uni web site about an Oxford person who campaigned to set-it up:<br />
<br />
<i>"He identified one consequence of these changes in the universities: their original purpose (to train people in the learned professions and as leaders of a traditional society - in Law, Divinity and so on), had been supplemented by a new requirement to train technologists, scientists and specialists for a new kind of society and <span style="color: red;">economy</span>. As the trend developed, graduates lost the common background, terminology, and values which had previously been almost universal in university education. Mutual understanding declined as specialisation increased and the great institutions of the country appeared to be at risk of fragmentation."</i>The history of Keele (I forget the title and reference) says that there was a <i>Keele Idea</i> from this same Lindsey character, but that he didn't write it down and that it was easier to identify from a distance, like a smoke ring, than close-up in a long Senate meeting about the detail of the Foundation Year or whether people should be allowed to take similar joint-honours subjects.<br />
<i><br />
</i> It's a bit weird, but economics has a history of people baffled by each others' points of view rather than able to prove or explain and discuss. I think that most people who are interested in economics know what I mean. I know that the way other people use money is always a surprise - consumer TV programs show that every week - but the way experts advise is a surprise as well. Examples crop-up. I am baffled by the idea that bad countries run by baddies should be denied exports from the UK, rather than exports to the UK, but that's a commonly-held view. Saudi Arabian government orders bad things in Yemen. People crop-up on telly saying "we should deny them exports". The Saudi Foreign Minister, in an interview about BAE jets, said "the british government does not give them to us; we buy them, and if we cannot buy them in future we will buy jets from another supplier". That's a made up quote but that's the gist of it from memory. I am baffled by the difficulty that some politicians have with the idea of social insurance - I genuinely don't know why the disagreement between me and them; the conversation does not happen. They think of spending as a kind of Father Christmas for grown-ups. There are lots of battlements like that, and discussion of some kind among students could be part of their education in understanding each other. Maybe there should be a course called <i>"when a common view made economic sense"</i>, trying to trace-back common ideas to some point in history when they did, and maybe still-do in a forgotten way.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Efficient</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
My recollection is that I studied some rather bland micro-economic theories more than once - probably three times. I studied at A-level, with examples and graphics. Then on a Uni course, with letters and dotted lines and movement of lines to other letters with superscripts. Then again on a revision course for anyone who wanted more. I read on the Post Crash Economics Society site that the same happens on full-time 21st century courses; the same stuff comes round and round again. It says so in my <i>Laidler</i> micro-economics book as well. The preface says it suits the second year of a course, for people who have aleady done an introductory course. In his college - University of Western Ontario in the 70s - it might have been taught four times or more.</blockquote>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
By the time I did years two and three in 1986-7, there was just one option in year three to talk about a subject, this time in a class of twelve. Everything else was the kind of cheap economics teaching that students complain about - a person standing at the end of the room like a weatherman, telling you a theory that their boss thought they ought to teach,which might be true, or might not, and is not what you signed-up to learn. So there was a reason why course descriptions were so vague - it was to allow for chaos. <i>"<span class="a" style="left: 655px; top: 1361px;">I came into the system at its peak thinking, like any student, that things had always been this way"</span></i><span class="a" style="left: 655px; letter-spacing: 3px; top: 1449px; word-spacing: 9px;"><span class="l7"><span class="w" style="width: 13px;"></span><span class="l6"><span class="l6"><span class="w9"></span><span class="l8"><span class="w" style="width: 13px;"></span><span class="l7"><span class="w9"></span><span class="l7"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> - Tribe, 2004, <a href="https://www.academia.edu/7264841/The_Modern_Economics_Curriculum">The Modern Economics Curriculum</a>, p3 <br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQAFDWRPF4X60LhuKGjJOlmfM6fPB4ARcXhhIZWgtFjMEnpw9RLInUaBBXkBj7QX10qT2Kcyje7mdI7QMibBbNn2K3m-_FLSUDFrpynOZGxOuGGRa-WBXfM1SOB_IYDXO0_uJv2OEURJ35/s1600/economics-for-the-eighties.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQAFDWRPF4X60LhuKGjJOlmfM6fPB4ARcXhhIZWgtFjMEnpw9RLInUaBBXkBj7QX10qT2Kcyje7mdI7QMibBbNn2K3m-_FLSUDFrpynOZGxOuGGRa-WBXfM1SOB_IYDXO0_uJv2OEURJ35/s1600/economics-for-the-eighties.jpg" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr align="right"> <td class="tr-caption"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Begg, 1984, page xix</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
If I had gone on a course the year I applied, in 1982, then students might very well have wanted to talk about unemployment and the way government made it worse by manipulating the exchange rate so that the better export-led factories all closed very quickly. By the time I did years two and three in 1985-7, there was a course of classes in which someone stood at the end of a room to explain conventional wisdom of a rather old-fashioned kind that ignored imports and exports. This was a nobbled course, run to be cheap and safe<b>.</b> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The man who delivered a lot of old cheap and safe material</span> </h4>
Fishman left high school at the age of 16 and studied for a degree in Business Administration in California. His 1980s course for 20 year-olds is aimed at US 16 year-olds, as are most economics courses in the UK in the 1970s and early 80s and even more so now I guess - that's the strange thing. There are interesting lectures, and there are exercises in statistics, but the concepts and links to real facts are rare.<br />
<br />
The most famous academic of Fishman's generation is Kirmit, the economics teaching puppit spawned in the University of Maryland where puppetry courses were part of the Department of Home Economics.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>A puppetry class offered in the applied arts department introduced him to the craft and textiles courses in the College of <a class="mw-redirect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Economics" title="Home Economics">Home Economics</a>, [University of Maryland] and he graduated in 1960 with a BS in Home Economics. - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Henson#Early_life:_1936.E2.80.9361">Jim Henson, early life</a>, in Wikipedia - <a href="http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Kermit%27s_Lectures">muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Kermit's_Lectures</a></i></blockquote>
American academics looked like Kirmit the Frog, with high-brow swept back hair except that they tended to have very serious heavy specs, so my theory is not quite true. Fishman sounds like Kermit. Fishman's speech is un-affected by the person he is speaking to. He always says <i>"math"</i> instead of <i>"maths"</i>; his anecdotes about Ford Motor Company are about Ford of Detroit, when they had a big office before the 70s oil crisis, not Ford of Dagenham in the 1980s [<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">Smith - p143</a>]. His accent is more of a memorable cartoon accent than other teachers and students who come from all-over the world, and his opinions about teaching are cartoon opinions too. Fishman says, without a source, <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an Economics Course"</i>, part-way through a revision lecture. Somebody must have suggested to him that it was wrong or badly taught. We revised the <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&biw=1136&bih=874&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=4-quadrant+ISLM&oq=4-quadrant+ISLM&gs_l=img.3...24728.28130.0.28470.15.15.0.0.0.0.195.1781.4j11.15.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.12.1589...0j0i67k1j0i30k1j0i8i30k1.5JFi_3dOpi4">four-quadrant diagram of ISLM</a>. That's the diagram that is officially about an open economy with imports and exports, but you wouldn't know it at a glance and I think that imports and exports are a different graph which I don't remember. The idea that <i>|"we have to teach this stuff"</i> could have come from US economics courses, taught alongside textbooks that were in turn written to please course-writers and state universities in places like Alabama, West Virginia or maybe Bangladesh where there are universities but no welfare state, and nothing like Keele social science teaching in the mid 1980s. To say <i>"we have to teach this stuff"</i> is refreshingly honest, but untrue. Maybe there was some kind of pressure to teach boring macro-economic modelling, rather than stuff about funding the welfare state, in order to look un-controversial. If the course had been called <i>"de-industrialisation, the dutch disease and monetary policy"</i>, then it would have been controversial, but it was taught in such an obtuse way that it was un-controversial. The same subject that other students would ask about when they said <i>"What's the problem?"</i>, or <i>"Why is there so much unemployment?"</i>, was reduced to something so boring that there was a revision lecturer with an apology for its pointlessness. Maybe there was some kind of pressure to teach what was available, just British Leyland used a front-wheel drive gear box and mini suspension on the Morris Marina. It was what they had on the shelf. I still don't know whether Fishman's distanced approach to economic theory made this a better course, because teaching about institutions was allowed, or whether it would have happened anyway. <br />
<br />
<ul>
<li>Did I mention that I had to watch this across a room for three years in order to stay off the dole and get £3,000 a year while he got about £60,000 and the chain of command got even more? Yes I did.I suppose some people even paid for all this.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Did I mention that any students' patience for bundles of introductory courses is going to wear-out by age 21, and that the chance to discuss economics in a tutorial with strangers and a well-informed teacher will probably never happen again? No: that's a new one. It needs another paragraph somewhere. That happens in arts subject but for some reason it's not allowed in economics. I should also be angry with other economics college courses of the time: a recent Prime Minister and Shadow Chancellor both went on the same PPE course at Oxford, but found themselves unable to have a sensible conversation about the economy. It doesn't look as though they did a course in how to fund the welfare state in thirty years' time either. Now that it is thirty years' time, they have blank faces.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Did I mention that I am still angry with Fishman for burning my chance to do a sane economics degree when it was an emotive subject and there were no jobs around? Yes: this has become clear. Later I discovered that other economnics courses are even worse, and that the best bits of this one were unusual, but that's no excuse for such an awful waste of time and money on ISLM diagrams and un-used stats skills and textbook ISLM diagrams.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Did I mention that the Cow Theory on Fishman's course - the theory that there isn't enough UK unemployment and that other countries aren't encouraged enough to run sweatshops - is still a problem today? No. But do a control+F for cow theory. UK taxpayers have paid via the Department for International Development and the British Council for a program called Delphe, funding development education in universities that are close to a lot of poverty like universities in Bangladesh or Sudan. The content of these courses is probably a load of cow-pat, ignoring the obvious cures for poverty like girls' secondary schools, pensions, and health care in favour of systems that encourage people to have vast families in the hope that at least one will survive and look after the parents in old age. This is the system that wiped out the UK textile industry with a free trade deal written for Bangladesh, and fuelled the trade around Rana Plaza.<br />
</li>
</ul>
Anyway, authors are like scientists: they try to show; not tell. At the same time they are human beings selecting evidence from what's memorable and to-hand, so it's good to know where they are coming-from, even if you're not very cynical about their motives. For example when I studied, inflation was the big daddy of economics problems but in hindsight it only happened for a decade or two after the oil crisis and before cheap imports from sweatshops. The theories written about inflation were rushed-together very quickly from the ideas around at the time. Then someone probably justified them with a bit of algebra beyond the reach of undergraduates and hitched a job as a grand professor of rational expectations theory or such, whether the theory is true or not and whether or they can teach or not. <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://web.science.mq.edu.au/~wardle/Personal/fish.gif" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Proving the Existance of Fish: a cartoon stuck on someone's door in the politics department down the corridor" border="0" height="266" src="https://web.science.mq.edu.au/%7Ewardle/Personal/fish.gif" title="" width="400" /></a></div>
Most College teachers are paid as <i>"lecturer"</i> or <i>"professor"</i>, but described to students as <i>"tutor"</i> on the notice boards that say who is going to exist in what room at what time. Fishman was one of my two third year economics tutors. What happened in other social science tutorials was that students would sit around Formica wood-grain tables for inspiration, to discuss a documentary, or some facts like a table of statistics, a book, the weeks' lectures, or a combination of these. The discussions would be ordinary and rather stilted, but with luck there would be a cool person in the same tutorial group who would say something interesting, or at least enough students who had read most of the book and been to the lectures and could say something. Apparently that's what happens in the 20-teens on courses at the London School of Economics: a tutor talks to twelve students at a time and some talk back. At 1980s Keele there is always a thrill of danger that maybe nobody has read a word of the book or been to a single lecture, and the tutor has to do all the talking for 60 minutes, but I only remember that happening once - in a foundation short course - and the tutor filled the hour very well. Down the corridor in some subject like Politics, someone had <i>"Proving the existence of Fish"</i> stuck-up on their office door; the idea was to encourage learning if possible and only talk for the 60 minutes if all else failed. In other social science departments, there were periodic essay requirements and a line of feedback on completed essays. Staff learnt from students, as well as their own reading and research, to prepare the next years' teaching or whatever else they did. I studied straight-laced courses like politics, but the politics staff were prepared to teach subjects that brought a risk of argument or puzzlement; we discussed African democracy even in a short course. In hindsight, if someone asked me to sit with 12 students and talk about African Democracy I'd be pretty scared, but Keele students were a placid lot and it went OK. <a href="http://www.keeleboomerang.com/index.php/2016/11/02/keele-icons-martin-dent/">There was even someone who knew a lot of this first-hand</a> and a foundation lecture I missed called "status and problems of developing countries" by Les Fishman. That's what happened in the rest of the social science building. We did not have to recite opinions from academic journals unless we wanted to; we were there to develop our own ideas against facts, and probably more than at some other universities because teachers had to concentrate on the core of their subjects rather than the talk-about-talk. If <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">I'd gone to Keele a year or two earlier, this would have happened in Economics too</a>, but I was unlucky except for a little part of year three. Economics teaching broke the rules and still does, at most or all colleges. Attempts to write-down what a reasonable expectation should be include things like critical thinking and reference to facts. If anyone knows how to research this and checks-through all hundred-odd university economics departments in the UK, that researcher will find plenty that don't much refer to facts or specifically state that they don't require critical thinking in students who graduate. Oh I've jumped ahead. We are in the mid 80s at Keele. Professor Fishman stood at one end of a room like a genial weatherman. He was good at lecturing - a kind of showman. I don't remember what Fishman taught, but it was probably the usual plot: <i>Gentleman Discovers Curv</i>e, followed by <i>Gentleman Obfuscates Algebraically</i> and <i>This rubbish isn't worth teaching in detail but Gentleman got top academic job for fame, fortune, and consultancy offers.</i> That in the snakepit of political allegations and stressed pompous colleagues crowded too close together in US postwar universities. Fishman nearly pulled-off the stunt shared so many people with short highbrow haircuts like Kirmit the Frog, serious spectacles and long names, mentioned in the footnotes of our textbooks. Kenneth J Arrow, Joseph Scumpeter, Paul A Samuelson, in <i>Econometrica</i>, their house magazine, which was a bit like <i>Tatler</i> for Kirmits. Most of them less pleasant people, with less life experience, and none of them wrote Fishman's rather good article about car sharing schemes, but they got the jobs and he was lucky to keep a career by moving to Keele. Fishman was just as distant, for the technical reasons that he did not do tutorials and the subject was usually taught by drilling classes of conscripts. But if anyone had a good reason to contact him he liked to be called Les, so he was a rebel on one way, but not in another. He saw his job as explaining conventional wisdom to the little people - the undergraduates - in a rather nice way that didn't refer to the textbook but to journals and his own genial knack of explaining things. So we got a sense of being in the company of a professor - a taster course - but not any way of talking back. We had to understand the curves, which had not changed much since A-level, but this time we didn't move swiftly on to write an essay; we studied more of them and played with calculators to try to do some kind of book-keeping for imagined movements of the curve. I wasn't very good at this and it wasn't what I thought I had signed-up for. My sums did not add up to the same result each time I tried them, nor the result on the back of the handout that's meant to be the correct answer. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Students should be aware that it is now accepted wisdom that those with A level Economics do less well in Economics degree results than those without A level Economics - <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614023101/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/teaching/allmod.htm">1996 Keele course description</a></i></blockquote>
I had expected some interaction of facts and social problems to solve. I thought we would feed the curves somehow into a computer and find out if they were true, a bit like sending a fax or feeding a goat. I had seen Economics taught with rules of thumb and essays, and expected a little more checking of facts than at A-level. I had seen Nuffield Physics, and expected the same grown-up approach to maths, maybe to understand what a computer is doing. Undergraduate students like me had seen adult teaching and were puzzled by the sight of algebra taught on its own, in case useful in some later life. We would have been even more puzzled if we'd known that this was one of the least mathematical courses in the UK and that it had been better a year or two before. Fishman was another less-mathematical economist, but he learnt his trade at UCLA and University of Colorado, teaching people who hadn't done A-level. These studends had a choice between conscription, and a course that would impress people and help them find work. The teachers had a choice of teaching endless textbook introductory courses, or being noticed for indpendent thought and maybe getting a long drawn-out unfair dismissal with FBI help and advice given to the dismissers.. So the students were happy to learn the same textbook over and over again if it kept them off the draft, and teachers were happy to teach it over and over again if helped hold-down the job. Keele was not an alternative to conscription. Students vaguely guessed that the degree certificate would not get them a job: <i>"<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtCittJyr0">Road to Nowhere</a>"</i> and <i>"<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nlygb1Qfw">Passenger</a>"</i> seemed to be default tracks played in the students union, played by wannabe DJs to an empty disco room in order that they should have something to put on the CV. <br />
<br />
Talking of music, there was a music department but I guess it mainly taught high culture to the little people and that could be a good thing because loads of self-taught people made music, only to be kept of the air by Radio 1.Radio 1 had a playlist, copied by other stations scared of being closed like Radio Caroline or having their licences revoked. If you like Clash albums you'll know their song "Capital Radio" about how awful London's Capital Radio was. Then and now the radio would play some awful saccharine piece of music, talk through it, and fail to say what it was at the end so if you did like it you didn't know what it was.<br />
<br />
In hindsight, you might think that there was another kind of playlist that said these tracks had to be played by child molesters but I doubt that's true. They were played by showmen. One of them admitted that he didn't have a record player at home - I forget his name but officially he was the most famous one and I don't think he was ever accused of being a child molester. Showmen are people who are interested in attention, and those who got attention in odd ways when they were very young are an overlapping group. I think that showmanship and a history of recieving attention in odd ways are likely to overlap a lot. That's a theory I got from a colleague when I used to do social work jobs. So: Radio 1 and the like were disliked organisations used to promote corrupt peoples' music through the mouths of showmen. A brief fashion for Ska was followed by a number one hit by Buck's Fizz, a drink used in teh mess of the Buckinghamshire Regiment I think, and a band chosen by the Ministry of Defence to play in the Falklands as thought to represent popular taste.<br />
<br />
There was better music - more varied and raw - on the John Peel Show, played by part-time bands who had got-going on the new four-track tape recorders they could afford from Japan and cut-out the cost of a posh recording studio and record plugging. It was great to test my own patience, trying to get the hand of different music styles. My brother even got interested in Bulgarian Folk at one point, but I think I was more into anger lust and jangle. Some of the bands played at Keele. I never quite got the hang of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_(band)">The Fall</a>, a John Peel Favourite, but I did think it was funny when Garry Glitter did a middle-aged version of his teenage self. <br />
<br />
There was a reason that Keele was good for music. Early 80s students ganged-up to vote for a bridge from the car park to the empty disco room, allowing bands to move their gear quickly and drive the M6 at the service station This bridge made Keele an easy place to perform. Bands came. <br />
<br />
<br />
Where were we?<br />
<br />
<br />
We would leave to find that a load of other people had already been working for a while, which was bad for them but paid, and some had got <i>"management experience"</i> like ordering stationary and were to be our bosses like the boss in <i>The Office.</i> The Begg 80s economics textbook is keen on equal opportunities policies. When I left Keele, the only jobs were for hopeless quangos trying to solve social problems in London and the first jobs I got required candidates to state no un-necessary qualifications. A stated degree might have reduced by job prospects. I suppose that students were interested a bit in the subject. I suppose that students were interested a bit in the decade and that part of the globe. Why there were no jobs, and what could be done, but there was no normal social science teaching so I don't know what other students thought.We didn't talk to each other. The room was small enough for students to ask the odd question & get a reply, almost like the proper university departments next door. Opinion is divided about whether Fishman had anything to much to teach if he'd wanted to and known how. <a href="http://ianlouisharris.com/1985/09/02/a-letter-from-keele-professor-les-fishman-2-september-1985/#comment-150">One opinion is that he had good ideas but didn't teach them</a>. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4>
<span style="color: red;">Economics introductory course</span> </h4>
Fishman just taught the untrue micro-economic orthodoxy, from books that say steel workers get together and bid-up their wages too high, causing inflation and redundancies, but can re-kindle the steel works after a brief monetary shock to the economy and work cheaper if they come to their senses. I can't find a reference to that in the Begg textbook, but it was a commonly-held view. I guess US steel-workers are quoted as an example in a theory called Rational Expectations. A bit like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Full_Monty">The Full Monty</a>, but with more of a steelworks rekindling theme. Steelworks are an odd example because the furnace cracks when cool, but they're still sometimes quoted as an example in economics textbooks. I quote more or less from the textbook's account of the predominant monetarist school of thought about how government should manage an economy. And just as a steelworks cracks very quickly when it's turned-off, a factory full of scrap metal and housing development acreage gets cleared too. A facebook group for pictures of derelict factories is called 28dayslater.co.uk The Begg textbook might not mention "rational expectations" but it does state a "life cycle hypothesis", that (pretending ignorance of a welfare state) people can save and dis-save over a life-cycle. <i>"students run-up overdrafts knowing that, as rich economists, they can pay ... back later". (Begg, 1984, p541).</i> The only welfare state this book has heard of is the bit that employs economics teachers, so a third-world country is not poor for lack of pensions or health care or dole, but <i>"low income families may be unable to spare the time for education and training or the money for machinery". (Begg, p5).</i> Omission is not for lack of space. The book is 781 pages long and finds plenty of space to mention a false dichotomy between <i>"command"</i> and <i>"free market"</i> economies, without mentioning whether the state bit is a state pension, in the UK, or a state industry, as in 1980s India <i>(p 12),</i> and it even mentions dole in the form of supplementary benefit - the means tested bit at the time - but not unemployment pay which was the bit based on contributions. <i>(p 604, 566, 594).</i></blockquote>
Oddly enough, one of the students had a dad redundant from <a href="http://www.thepotteries.org/shelton/how.htm">Shelton Steel Works</a> which closed in 1978 and didn't re-kindle. Blast furnaces crumble if you turn them off, so they can't be re-kindled even if the owners and government agencies want to make it possible, which they don't. Oddly enough, nothing was said about that either. It was a bit weird. Like the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_scandal">Stafford Hospital</a> crisis nearby in 2005-8, when everyone was too polite to say anything or report anything and a local paper stated that it just wanted "good news stories" from hospitals. I expect some of the Stafford Hospital trainee medics were studying at Keele and wrote essays to say that nothing was wrong. If you do a control+F for <b><span style="color: #38761d;">p663</span></b> you will see the textbook answer copied from the same <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/economics/oclc/10907961">1980s textbook</a> this man had chosen, but not read. It says that the monetarist consensus was massively wrong and why. That's a confusing thing about economics textbooks: they are slotted together like encyclopedias from different writers on different pages and then glossed-over to look neutral and technocratic. <br />
<br />
The department where I studied could not afford a copy of the textbook, I suppose. But Fishman had read another textbook by a colleague - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - "<i>For comments and help I would like to thank ... colleagues ... Leslie Fishman"</i>, it says in the acknowledgements, and on page 22: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Between the beginning of 1979 and the end of 1980, the so-called 'effective exchange rate' rose 21.6 per cent and wage and salary costs per unit of output in manufacture rose 36.6 per cent. This added up to a decline in the competitiveness of British goods, according to the International Monetary Fund measure, of about 50 per cent: a change almost un-precedented over such a short period. In the face of these developments, exports held up fairly well, mainly due to exporters making great efforts to keep their prices down - export prices rose by well under half the rise in costs of production. But imports soared, since the stronger pound made them relatively cheaper; the recession intensified as British producers began to lose out in their own home market.</i></blockquote>
Nowadays, if someone asks a Keele economics tutor about <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rock#Subprime_mortgage_crisis_and_nationalisation">Northern Rock</a> or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers#Causes">Lehman Brothers</a>, does the tutor say: <br />
<blockquote>
<i>"I don't know .... maybe they didn't give away free pens to attract new depositors?"</i> <i>"Oh: did they give away free pens?. Oh. I don't know. Back to ISLM in a closed economy and broiler chicken workbook examples".</i> I expect they do.</blockquote>
<blockquote>
If someone asks about <i>"<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Talbot_Steelworks">Port Talbot steel works?</a> does the teacher say "Maybe the staff all asked for positive pay rather than negative pay, as suggested by the textbook"</i> If someone asks <i>"What about dumping asset stripping over-valued home currencies and an unfair advantage to producers in countries no welfare state to pay-for, sometimes over-population, and government elite who stache money in swiss bank accounts thus lowering the value of the home currency even further, and maybe spending tax money in export subsidies as in Bangladesh or getting grants towards steels works from the Department for International Development as in China?"...</i>Does the teacher say: <i>"I don't know: there is a lot there that I don't know about, and we need students from China, so lets get back to the workbook examples"</i> ?<br />
How about if someone asks about overcrowding. Does the teacher say <i>"It's not overcrowding. It's agglomoration of new skills into the worksforce".</i></blockquote>
The difference is that Fishman could remember the times in the US when academics would have fake allegations made-up about them to end their careers if anyone thought they were a communist. Those that kept their jobs were safe people in the view of the employers, and they kept themselves defended behind a fortress of un-necessary algebra and formality and separation from students. Fishman did not get summoned to the McArthy committee of the US Congress. He got the Senate version, the Todd Committee, with two colleagues from Colorado University. I don't know where to find the minutes, but quite likely he said that economics was a boring technical, and used that as a defence. By the time he faced the committee he had already found work in the UK, but there are accounts of other people at Colorado loosing their careers and discovering, years later, that the chief of the college exchanged names with the CIA and that the CIA had an office advising on how to do an unfair dismissal for any staff who seemed radical. I found that reference on Google - it was about a politics lecturer who never taught again and a principal of the college, now dead, who's relatives declined to comment. I have lost the reference but this is all true. Economics as a textbook subject expanded quickly in cold-war america. That's when the textbooks were written. One came-out in 1947- <a href="https://archive.org/stream/elementsofeconom030865mbp" title="Elements of Economics, Tarshis, Laurie, 1947, now published free on Archive.org">Laurie Tarshis' Elements of Economics</a> - but was boycotted and rejected for being partisan, then Samuelson's long textbook came-out in 1948 with its cold-war opinions about command economies, its pretended ignorance of social insurance, and its sense that great men knew a lot of technical algebra to justify the graphics. It covered a lot - general knowledge for 16 year-olds and grand conventional wisdom for college students. It sold all over the world and I guess it defined the subject, so this is a good theory although partly untrue. There is an anecdote from an economics student on the day after the Wall Street Crash. The only pictures I can find of Fishman are of him speaking to say he wouldn't sign a "loyalty oath" at a university in California and a picture of him summoned-back to Colorado, near his old employer, to face some politician's McArthy-style committee. That was at a time when the FBI had a special unit to assist unfair dismissals of suspected communists, and there are records of Colorado University co-operating with them to supply lists of suspects and of people who's teaching careers ended in stress and unemployment. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/mar/18/1">Something like that happened to Fishman's father who got exiled to Siberia</a>. Something like that has just happened in Turkey, with large numbers of universities and schools closed and their ex-staff rounded-up and imprisoned alongside staff of the government colleges still open. I think there is a link in Fishman's case between being a boring, bureaucrat of an economics boss and his background in jobs where you had to watch your back and not take any risks. I think there could be a link between that standard way of teaching economics - theory first for example - and its popularity in autocratic states.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><span face="">A rule of thumb</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face="">The latin teacher effect</span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg25vCtR50qFlaAjsiikMjlNbvsSTgcPb54mY0HoOII7N6JyuqqVMUAYqp3SNNhDkaWVMvewOi_KxdlbmWJI15OleKErRU2k1iBav1Kvl6x3TbomXb1scTWgDoMPodVsI62XOTVoZE6sdjY/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Complete University Guide summery of Unistats data for LSE economics students' satisfaction" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg25vCtR50qFlaAjsiikMjlNbvsSTgcPb54mY0HoOII7N6JyuqqVMUAYqp3SNNhDkaWVMvewOi_KxdlbmWJI15OleKErRU2k1iBav1Kvl6x3TbomXb1scTWgDoMPodVsI62XOTVoZE6sdjY/s1600/temp.jpg" title="" /></a>The London School of Economics <i>(LSE)</i> runs one of the most selective courses; it has most control over which students suit the course best and are allowed to sign-up. These same students rank it bottom of the charts for satisfaction. LSE ability to select students for the course is on left of the diagram; LSE student satisfaction with their chosen course is on the right. The bars chart relative scores to other economics degrees; the number is an absolute number mixed-up from some Unistats scores, and published in the <i>Complete University Guide</i> charts online in I think 2015 or 2016. <a href="https://unistats.ac.uk/subjects/satisfaction/10004063FT-L101-UBEC">A more detailed search in 2017, taking the single-subject degree, shows about the worst reference that students give anywhere</a>. Obviously, they can't see past feedback acted-on. If they could see that, the course would have closed, although 30% are naturally loyal and lie on the form and say that it's clear how past feedback has been acted on. 46% believe that staff want to act on student feedback - so that's the liars plus another 16%. The feedback isn't just asking for easier work either - only 67% believe they are prompted to do their best work. Nor is it a question of the subject being naturally hard. Students are only 74% stimulated by the choice of material on the syllabus, even though they chose to study something called economics, and they are only 60% interested by its presentation. A third think the system of marking is agreed in advance, or that they can see past feedback acted-on, 40% think they are part of a community of staff and students. About half think they know what's coming next and how to choose the next module. Two thirds think they can apply a breadth of knowledge from different areas or study one subject in depth, but less than that - 53% - think they can even apply what they have learned, so presumable "depth" means more and more un-applied theory. It is clearly a course that should close.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
An observation. The people who write the course at London School of Economics are unusually blyth about wasting students' time and money. They'll probably carry-on until someone finds a way to sue them for it. Just as social workers are unusually blythe about inviting clients in for an assessment when there's no point, or police used to be unusually blythe about stop-and-search patrols.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<DIGRESSION ON 80s POLICING></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
An odd thing about being picked-up for cruising in the 80s was that I wasn't beaten-up or anything like that. It was all very dignified and most of the two or three times I was just picked-up and released. In the 50s and 60s I think it would have been different. Magistrates would believe the confession of a boy with a black eye, written in police jagon and presented by private sector solicitors who's job depended on backing-up police cliams. Thatcher's ability to invent a whole new public sector bureaucracy made policing better. The same system ought to be applied to employment law, under which people are sacked as rivals or whistleblowers or troublemakers rather than being bad at the job or doing the alleged gross misconduct and the large organisation that used to employ them spends as much as it wants on loyal lawyers. Organisations like big charities, aid agencies, government contractors, councils, schools, and health trusts. So some system by which only approved lawyers could do the work could allow a lot more rivals and whisleblowers to work for our taxes and donations. </blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There was one arrest by the Tactical Reserve Unit, a 1980s group of squaddie-like people who sometimes got billeted at the diplomatic protection police station that existed in Barnes. They drove vans rather than cars, and in the van one of them told me this as a squaddie says things like "we're called the purple helmets". He told me that they were a special unit for tackling riots, but there weren't any riots just then so they had to find something to do. Handing me over at Putney Police Station, he said he thought I was cruising in a public place (gross indecency under the strange edwardian criminal law amendment act at the time) . "With respect, it's not public". "Yes it is: people walk their dogs". "Not in the dark at night". As soon as the tactical reserve unit were gone, I was released.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I don't know what can sort-out LSE professors except student boycott - a boycott by a nieve group of customers who have often come a long way on parental funding.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The more selected students at the LSE ought to be easier to satisfy, because they can be selected for similar interests and abilities. A less selected group of students could want opposite things to each other, or have vaguely different and less clear ideas of what the course is for, if anything, and so be harder to please all at the same time. They'd also lack the precocious few who went to LSE instead. A lot could end-up on the course with no clear interest, and so not work much on it. Or not be cut-out for studying, and need a very structured clear simple course that's easy to grasp.Some could want business tips from someone not in business. Some could want to sort the economy out while not yet Chancellor of the Exchequer. Possible disappointment all-round. All a good excuse for dis-satisfaction at somewhere like Open University, but not at the the big LSE course with different streams of study and students selected to want them.. Here are some theories. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Theory Number One is not very good</span> </h4>
<strike>Mick Jagger was an LSE student, something that I guess a lot of current students know, and the <i>"can't get no satisfaction"</i> lyric might go through their heads as they fill in the feedback forms. That is theory number one, but not very good because I guess the students are good at things like stats and try to keep first impulses in check.</strike></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Theory Number Two is not much better </span> </h4>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strike>Expensive inner-cities could leave all students jaundiced, and their feedback could be lower for all departments. Except that other subjects are scored better by students doing joint-honours; mathematical economics options do worse.</strike></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Theory Number Three isn't much based on experience</span> </h4>
<strike>The LSE is a highly international college. It says so on the prospectus. It shares low scores with the School of Oriental and African Studies. For this reason, it's likely that students and staff at both colleges are under-qualified to think about one particular economy like the one in the UK, or two to compare; they each know scraps about everywhere. For example they can read a reference to the Morris Marina as an example of failed state intervention before closure of in-efficient industries, and they can believe it; they lack background knowledge to correct the conventional truth. Until the conventional truth describes some part of the world that they know about, and then it seems wrong. </strike></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strike>I don't know what do do with this theory. It's based outside my experience. For example I don't know how much people can choose to study the economic history of one country even while living in another, but there is a clue. Nearly 500 economic history students at the LSE were surveyed for this 2017 group of Unistats, and under 70% thought "staff made the subject interesting". That's near the bottom of the charts - just above courses with known problems like the Cardiff department which sacked its head for going a bit mad, or whatever happens each year on the Aberdeen MA course. There are regular protests at Manchester, and some kind of disaster at Sheffield. Other than that, London School of Economics is near the bottom of the list I want to cross out this theory because some of the facts point directly against. The teachers of economic history at Keele had lived of worked round the world in Australia, Germany, Norway, London and the Midlands and seemed well informed in spite of it all. So I guess that it's the studying of economic history, rather than the teaching of it, which is unlikely to work while migrating.</strike></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Theory Number Four: the answer is written in the prospectus and articles by staff</span> </h4>
The LSE prospectus gives a view about who should apply. It begins by tempting-in students with references to real problems. It ends by admitting that this is con. The course is the opposite of a course on real problems: it demands an interest in maths. There's only a chance to do anything else in the third year. Students have to suffer years one and two in hope that they lead somewhere. It is a bad deal; a bad offer. If the deal was on a supermarket shelf it would say<i> "Buy Three, Get One!"</i>. People like me who go for this deal are not good with money. Then when the third year comes, the other students on the course will have more experience of international travel and maths than of the UK economy, UK state services, or critical thought. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>modern economics requires an aptitude for and enjoyment of mathematics ... first-year core courses for undergraduate programmes in the Department of Economics include both mathematics and statistics. ... All of the programmes ... take a mathematically rigorous approach to the subject, and are therefore very demanding of quantitative and analytical ability and interest. This should be taken into consideration when deciding whether this is the most suitable degree programme for you - <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170326093815/http://www.lse.ac.uk/archived_prospectus/holding/undergraduate/DegreeProgrammes2016/economics/overview_and_features.aspx">2017 LSE course description</a> (aimed at applicants with A-level maths at the top grade)</i></blockquote>
An LSE lecturer wrote in <i>The Guardian</i> in 2008, partly defending his course with a circular <i>"because I say so"</i> argument. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Professional economics .. is very, very mathematical. This is true both for theoretical economics, which involves a lot of theoretical maths, and for applied economics, which involves a lot of number crunching of one sort and another.</i> - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/aug/04/economics.alevels">Tim Leunig of the LSE writing in The Guardian, 2008</a></blockquote>
I don't know what <i>"theoretical economics"</i> could be. It sounds an embellishment of rules-of-thumb to a daft extent and out of context. Like a theoretical dog or theoretical food. As for <i>"applied economics"</i>, there has to be an application or it isn't applied. The application ought to the <i>"very, very"</i> part of the course, and come first, or there is a risk of redundant theory or theory that's boring because out of context. The context could be a criticism of an economic claim, like the claims by Oxford Economics for the British Fashion Council or the reports of economic benefits from Heathrow. Or anything that students and teachers are interested in. Anyway I don't know why LSE economists don't use a computer to help with this kind of thing <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>dig data and know if other data says the opposite<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>crunch numbers with a rather frightening bit of software that takes a bit of learning<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>know the limits of rules of thumb - the ones that say whether one thing like price effects another thing like demand, or the rule of thumb that says whether points of data fit a distribution.<br />
</li>
</ul>
The same article suggests that economists aren't well educated. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Today many people call for restrictions on trade, even though every economist worth that title knows that free trade is good for both sides in almost all circumstances. Similarly many aid groups call for policies that will immiserate the very people they claim to want to help. Many people support those calls because they know so little about how the economy works, and people in the developing world are poorer as a result.</i></blockquote>
Those statement are not useful on their own. Free trade between a welfare state, with high social insurance costs, and another country with lower costs, can't work very well. The problem is made worse because very poor people tend to cope by having a lot of children, partly in hope of care in old-age, and fear of too many children dying along the way. Partly it just happens, when boys and girls are working and not at secondary school. So workers in one country have to pay social insurance costs, aid costs, and worse in emergencies while workers in the other country suffer over-population and are desperate. Both groups suffer the consequences of economic migration, and an economist could state more about this where sympathy goes to the migrant but the effects effect both groups. Add to that the complications of manipulated currencies - often manipulated on economic advice - and export subsidies that exist in countries like Bangladesh paid for by Bangladeshi tax payers - and you get an economic disaster which this economist doesn't mention. Free trade led to falling wages in Bangladesh and jobs like the ones at Rana Plaza, while wiping-out a lot of the textile trade in the UK. The economist states a good rule of thumb with no mention of its limits. He says <i>"almost all circumstances"</i>, so I suppose he thinks free trade benefited Bangladeshis and people in the UK. Here is another good rule-of-thumb taken out of context, without its limitations. This time it is rejected. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Until the 1970s people really did think that governments could spend their way out of recessions,</i></blockquote>
The policy generally worked, I thought, but spare capacity has to be available and likely to be used by the extra spending. So the idea suits rapidly-investing economies or economies in recession. The idea of public building works on things like The Hoover Dam or motorways or Ireland's Famine Roads or Mussolini's motorways is still, obviously, a good idea I think. The problem is when more general government spending expends, that carries-on after the recession, and could be spent on goods from the back of the planet because they're not available locally, or crowd-out the private sector which can't borrow so cheaply, or encourage inflation. So both rules of thumb are good, within limits. This economist accepts one rule of thumb and rejects the other without any ifs and buts. He doesn't seem to know his own ignorance, and his education gives a clue to the reason. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>LSE insists on an A grade at maths A-level, and even Oxford, which has the least mathematical economics course of any top [sic] UK university, notes that "94% of recent successful applicants have A-Level mathematics". And having got to a top university to read economics, students then find that they have let themselves in for a lot of maths: half of the LSE first year consists of formal maths courses, and another quarter is mathematical economics. If you want to be a professional economist, you need to do the maths.</i></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Reason for self-destruction at the LSE : the Latin teacher effect</span> </h4>
The last bit of indirect evidence is obvious to anyone educated a few decades ago. Colleges churned-out Latin graduates, who applied for teaching jobs as they had fewer alternatives than other graduates. Schools found the quality of job applicants very good for the money among Latin graduates, so they tried to slip Latin into any course possible and teach a lot of compulsory Latin. I remember it was a main subject at prep school and the start of secondary school. The latin teacher effect was so-obvious that nobody thought to mention it, and now it is forgotten. Unis did the same. In the 1930s my mum was told she couldn't go to university because she hadn't studied Latin. Universities taught even-more Latin related stuff, churned-out more Latin graduates, and the cycle repeated itself. The cycle - the Latin teacher effect - was obvious for Latin, and I think it's obvious for Maths at the LSE. Their prospectus says they want people with maths A-level straight out of school. Maths junkies. Even a year out of education can sap students patience for <i>"mathmatical argument"</i>, meaning that people grow out of it and realise that it's a waste of time. This system is unfair on the maths teacher as well as the student. If the purpose of theory were taught at the same time as the theory, then the maths teacher would be the Cool Person with a nifty insight into how a problem might be solved. If the theory is taught first, then someone has the job of teaching algebra to bored young faces.<br />
<br />
There's evidence of how the Maths Teacher Effect or the Latin Teacher Effect spread from places like the LSE to Keele. Firstly, people change jobs, and the general expectation tends to converge towards the average from whatever the college was first set-up to do. Second, there is a web of external reports by new vice chancellors, re-organisations, external examinors, who ask why a course can't be made as bad as others in the same subject. They wouldn't use that word. They'd use the word "good", but they are people from other Economics departments. There is a long careful summery of how to avoid the trap here - http://www.keeleucu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/Alternative-Plan.pdf - and I doubt many colleges have people who are willing to come-up with alternative plans like this; I expect most just converge towards the bad.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="">Chapter <span face="">Two</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face="">comes round again a bit here</span></span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">It's good for people to know what the 1980s recession was</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The common explanation of the early 1980s is that a few people were made unemployed because privatised industries employed less people than nationalised industries. I saw this view put in a <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07n7grm">history program on TV - The 80s with Dominic Sandford</a>; it has become a common view among analysts in the south and among graduates and the political class even though it was a made-up story put to newspapers in the 1980s to boost one of the political parties. <span style="background-color: lime;">Is this but in twice?</span> The idea that three million jobs could be lost because of a change in management priorities at British Steel, British Rail and British Gas, and loss of market share to fair competition from abroad just doesn't make sense. And that excludes the half million on government schemes and the people who ended-up on incapacity benefit, or not counted because they were too old or whatever other statistical decision made by a government-funded statistical office.You can google charts of employment in the coal mines, for example, which were a big lump of public employment, and see that the cuts came much earlier - they were more like the Beeching cuts in railways. What survived in the 1980s was a group of very large, easy-to-run mines, with a lot of equipment funded by cheap public loans. So a quick google disproves the theory. Someone arguing this point of view - that the unemployed fell out of privatised industries - has to agree that a lot of long-term private sector companies closed at the same time; the jobs were lost from industry, public or private. The map of unemployment then, and the map of house prices now, suggests that it was jobs at risk from international trade that were lost. The idea that 3 million jobs could be shed from the UK public sector comes from books like Samuelson that suggest that there are privately-run and public-run economies, with the US near one end of the spectrum and the UK in the middle. That view of the world misses the point that most of what the UK public sector does is public services; insurance-like services with their own history and reason for existence. Most of them are still here. So are the stupid economists who read the books, and who's ignorance dressed-up as expertise makes it harder for people to talk about the subject, teach it, write books, or make economic policies.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What happens after an economic mess-up.</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
A generation of people who looked for careers or any kind of job or even housing and stability after the 80s found it much harder, with casualties all-round. The economic growth through the 80s was, I expect, partly a growth of North Sea Oil exports that hiked-up the exchange rate just as the Bank of England liked to hike up the exchange rate; it was growth of a kind but not growth in career prospects, and for people who had a few things go wrong at the same time, it was easy to fall-out of ordinary life. I made my living for a decade or two just working for agencies that were meant to help these people. In Scotland and Wales, a generation of people decided never to vote Conservative again and to try to withdraw from the Westminster system that had allowed the damage which Dominic Sandford's history problem doesn't even acknowledge.</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red;">The manufacturing crisis caused by bad economists, politicians who picked them and voters who picked the politicians. And Murdoch & Maxwell news.</span></span> </h3>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFU5ePTXmR6BUPkPYKsX91qYee23D6TwAmrW_e7-Hce0gF96LxmWiRLd8acMZj9LYuPNSQ6XJNfHswWrHDFpQTVc3__U2yiyVpgxDj9UAmT8h2IUEJqo2pC9gB5M3eMLOXKg3T9ZvINQn8/s1600/unemployment.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="UK unemployment peaked at 12% in the mid 1980s on this graph, or just under 20% including the million people on government schemes. Professor Fishman taught at the time of the peak." border="0" height="282" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFU5ePTXmR6BUPkPYKsX91qYee23D6TwAmrW_e7-Hce0gF96LxmWiRLd8acMZj9LYuPNSQ6XJNfHswWrHDFpQTVc3__U2yiyVpgxDj9UAmT8h2IUEJqo2pC9gB5M3eMLOXKg3T9ZvINQn8/s320/unemployment.png" title="" width="320" /></a>My choice of course was a cut-down textbook version of an economics degree, a bit longer than the E in PPE or the Minor that goes with a US Major. I didn't know that you shouldn't do a short university course after an A-level in the same subject because of the big overlap. I imagined that we qualified A-level students would feed data into a computer and discuss whether any economic policies really worked. My guess wasn't a lot different from the course that ran in "the early eighties" in one account, with "workshops" of a tutor and six students trying to solve problems with economic methods in years two and three. It was the 1985-2008 intake who got a bad deal, and possibly later-still. The course was bundled with a lot of stuff like a campus and a degree qualification and a foundation year so it was harder to give-up than other economics adult education classes, which are rare. It was like an Open University or Birkbeck course I suppose, with built-in disappointment for people who hang around a campus for three or four years and anyone who has to teach them. Maybe people only take economics degree courses because they are bundled with a package and so, as at Keele, it is a pity to drop-out. I took Economics and English at Keele, with other shorter courses, hoping to work in journalism. The course happened in an industrial area of the UK in the 1980s, a time when the UK was not as afflicted by economics as Greece today, but heading that way as much as Portugal or Spain. I would like to know how it compares with Greek economics teaching now. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Pass-notes : 1980s UK unemployment</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Add a sixth to the height of the peaks of the graph (starting at zero) to include the half million people on government schemes and as much again for changes to the way employment was counted. (My figures come from Theyworkforyou.com and hansard reports of statements in the commons about numbers of people on employment schemes.) That gets you to about a sixth of the workforce - the same as the 1930s. Youth unemployment was probably 60% some areas around the Keele like Longton after a new government fiddled with the exchange rate, and there was a special slot on the national TV news for the day's redundancies and largest factory closures day by day, from MG Abingdon in January 1980 to Acorn Computers (who made the department desktops) in 1985. Early casualties were the well-known factories that did a lot of exporting, like MG and Acorn Computers, but UK factories generally did a lot of exporting. I forget how much. I think that about a fifth of GDP was international and it is probably similar now. Journalists model of UK manufacturing was a model of car - the Morris Marina - because it was parked all-over the place and mixed-up in peoples' lives, while a lot of manufacturing like Silverdale Colliery or the local steel mill were huge but known mainly to people on business, such as the staff. To everyone else they were just a big set of gates - often a big set of gates up north, seen only on telly during the strike news, or out of a train window. If you happened to see something like the train with a weeks' coal from Silverdale Colliery, running at 10 miles an hour with 50 waggons, it was a better model for the coal board than the Morris Marina which came from a rescued private-sector firm; this type of economic model suggests a lot but has limits. The Morris Marina became so much of an economic model that managers complained that their every decision was over-blown in the media. The Chrysler Avenger was just as bad, while the Ford Cortina and Vauxhall Cavalier were not much better. My mum and dad's Cortina rusted just as much as a Marina, and the gear-lever once came-off in my dad's hand, revealing tarmac underneath. My brother's Fiat 600 once decided to burst into flames, while his girlfriend's Avenger made funny noises over 60mph and seeped strange fumes. The Austin and Morris production lines were a good choice for a model of the UK economy, but with built-in assumptions, like all economic models. The Austin Allegro was built in Belgium until the mid 80s when that factory was closed, so it wasn't an emblem of how things were done only in the UK. The Morris Marina and then Austin Ital were built with an under-developed engine and gearbox, ugly dashboards, false economies of undercoat, and quality control problems but so were Chrysler Avengers and the cars that had better research and development built-in, allowing them to sell to sales reps: the Ford Cortina and Vauxhall Cavalier. And it means something that production of MGs - desirable cars that sold all over the world - ceased first in about 1980. That suggests that the good products like MG or maybe Steelite that were sold all over the world had bigger problems than the bad products like ceramic figurines or Morris Marinas that were only meant for the UK and could carry-on a little longer in production.</blockquote>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-left: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e2/fc/43/e2fc43d8137f00ffac77e8424fbd292a.jpg" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="301" src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e2/fc/43/e2fc43d8137f00ffac77e8424fbd292a.jpg" width="400" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr> <td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
MG cars produced mainly for export - <a href="http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-mgb-roadster-sports-car-pictured-outside-the-mg-works-factory-in-41846061.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=6C4F55B9-8680-4D8A-918A-4D561EA19AF8&p=7739&n=31&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26sortby%3d2%26qt%3dmg%2520abingdon%26qt_raw%3dmg%2520abingdon%26qn%3d%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26aoa%3d1%26creative%3d%26videos%3d%26nu%3d%26ccc%3d%26bespoke%3d%26apalib%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26ot%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26archive%3d1%26name%3d%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26userid%3d%26id%3d%26a%3d%26xstx%3d0%26cbstore%3d1%26lightbox%3d%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26apalic%3d%26tbar%3d1%26pc%3d%26simid%3d%26cap%3d1%26customgeoip%3d%26vd%3d0%26cid%3d%26pe%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26t%3d0%26edoptin%3d">outside the factory</a></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">A google of "<a data-cthref="/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwi6gt3gifLIAhXFWz4KHZFpANE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ons.gov.uk%2Fons%2Frel%2Flms%2Flabour-market-trends--discontinued-%2Fjanuary-1996%2Funemployment-since-1881.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE9YcBw-O9uJCCTR2rrQre5Vg1hZw&sig2=U4ZYRSsXGiVFFOKi52vkVw" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwi6gt3gifLIAhXFWz4KHZFpANE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ons.gov.uk%2Fons%2Frel%2Flms%2Flabour-market-trends--discontinued-%2Fjanuary-1996%2Funemployment-since-1881.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE9YcBw-O9uJCCTR2rrQre5Vg1hZw&sig2=U4ZYRSsXGiVFFOKi52vkVw">Unemployment statistics from 1881 to the present day</a>" discovers tables and graphs of how quickly manufacturing closed, as measured by people stranded on the dole. The factors of production - the machines and the networks and buildings - dispersed via auctions for scrap or export or later for new housing developments to house bankers.</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">I guess that export-based factories, that made good things well, closed quicker because of the exchange-rate-hike done by raising interest rates. I don't know because it wasn't part of my course to find out, and there was no chance to ask tutors if they happened to know. My third year tutor - Kieth Smith - made a few requests to the Central Statistical Office to check UK exports in more detail. He found that those things still exported were things that competed on low wage rates - the opposite of what anyone would expect. These requests are rare; not many economists ask for detail, so I doubt there's much information to be googled about this. Near Keele was a foundry that made cast iron parts for bicycles. Within walking distance. Tube Investments and Raleigh had been part of the same group for a while; the factory was well-linked with the rest of the trade, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to export or import a bicycle with cast iron parts. Meanwhile Surrey Steel Components in London, which I thought made aluminium bicycle parts, <a href="https://companycheck.co.uk/company/00555279/SURREY-STEEL-COMPONENTS-LIMITED/about">closed in 1984</a>. I read about it in the local paper, and assumed it was the same as <a href="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/GB.htm">GB Sport</a> in West London. You notice these things if you patch-up an old bike. But not if you do a textbook economics course, so I never discovered whether bad factories making cast iron bike parts survived better than good factories selling for export.</span></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">As good factories close, drivers with money can get a car some other way. As can buyers of Russel Hobbs toasters from the potteries, Doc Marten boots, once made by every UK-based welted boot factory, or Acorn Computers. Usually, buyers simply go to the shop buy a similar product off the shelf, possibly with the same brand on it. Often, the under-cut brand separates its IT - mainly the brand - from manufacturing and either sells the brand, or becomes a kind of amorphous international brand-holding agency with outsourced production in the way that Evan Davis celebrates as a wonderful thing in his "Made in Britain" book. Most toasters are commissioned for the UK market by a UK company in Kingston that has its own range of designs and suppliers in China, ready to make kitchen appliances with whatever label anyone asks to apply.</span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/1988.reliant.scimitar.ssi.1300.arp.jpg/280px-1988.reliant.scimitar.ssi.1300.arp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Scimitar sports cars - similar to MG - made near Keele" border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/1988.reliant.scimitar.ssi.1300.arp.jpg/280px-1988.reliant.scimitar.ssi.1300.arp.jpg" title="" /></a></span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">The more expensive brands spend more on advertising, promoting consumer debt like HP finance, consumer culture, and overpriced branded consumer goods, often advertised to people who can't afford them to promote un-met wants. The stress of debt or advertisements that suggest poverty in failure to afford could make work for Keele graduates of International Relations or Social Work. Urban rioters in 2011were very keen to loot Addidas branded goods from the likes of Sports Direct. The same system of over-advertised branded imports from China prevents genuine UK brands from starting-up. MG sports cars ceased production about 1980, and a Tamworth company near Keele made a replacement sports car for a few years, but, somehow, people were becoming more and more used to buying a familiar brand rather than buying a specification or buying what's made locally. Scimitar sports cars ceased production. I doubt that any of the kinds of people who might have got jobs at Scimitar or Belstaff took part in a potteries riot to steal sports cars or Belstaff clothing, but it would have been neat if they had done. Life is slightly different in a country without factories. It's harder to run editions of <i>Top Gear</i> if production is corporate and distant. I don't know if there is a <i>Top Gear</i> for toasters, but the principal probably applies somehow, for better or worse. I read somewhere that the UK in the 80s was the only market where users were used to seeing something like a wheatsheaf on their toaster, so maybe the imported ones were better looking but Russell Hobbs made the best of a bad market with its designs. It's very unlikely that research and development will happen in the UK if a corporate head office is in some distant country. Academics have made that point with tables of data to demonstrate. It's also expensive and difficult to set-up the next factory once the previous one is been auctioned-off, staff dispersed, suppliers run-down or further away, and the land classified as residential because the council doesn't like factories and the planning act came-in after the factory was built. Extreme cases are the steel furnace which crumbles if let cool, or the deep coal mine which is capped with cement on closure. Mundane cases are the workshops bulldozed for bovis flats because a council committee things factories are ugly and won't use their powers to force the empty space to be let cheaply. If the factory is owner-managed, the boss leaves depressed. It's hard to start a manufacturing business if you can't buy as much as possible from other manufacturers in small quantities to start with. From a consumer's point of view, it's hard to feel good about something made on the other side of the world, unless that feeling is based on advertising. Selling the brand to a rival importer is not the same thing as making the good; it doesn't produce as many good UK jobs. It may be lucrative because it makes the imports familiar and sell better. Economists like Evan Davis in <i>Made in Britain</i> can suggest that this is a sign of the wonderful knowledge economy so valuable to modern Britain, but trademarks don't employ the next generation of people to do something new, and, when the next generation grow-up in China or India with more confidence in their own tastes and styles, are they really going to pay a premium for writing "MG" on something anglophile? Cheaper to write it with a marker pen. Even if they do pay extra, the trademark is not owned by people in the UK. Even if the MG trademark is bought by people in the UK, it won't be employer here; the activities of a UK-owned trademark do not help money circulate around the UK as much as a car factory. Thinking back to those laid-off from MG or Servis or the Acorn factory that made BBC computers, they are the immediate short term problem and their generation suffers for a lifetime. Not that getting out of bed on Monday morning is good - I'd rather have a minimum basic wage and stay in bed - but it's good to do something useful, and even something sociable, and something paid that puts tax into the system. At college we did write an essay about the dozens of changes made by government to the way it counted unemployment in order to reduce the headline total, such as declaring that anyone over 60 was unlikely ever to get another job, so they weren't really unemployed, were they?</span> </h4>
The register of unemployed people should be read alongside <i>"Tacky schemes to get them off the register"</i> as Alan Clark, the minister responsible, wrote in his diary. This <a href="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=today%27s+redundancies%2c+not+the+nine+o+clock+news&qpvt=today%27s+redundancies%2c+not+the+nine+o+clock+news&view=detail&mid=63D539D9A16363F797B463D539D9A16363F797B4&FORM=VRDGAR">link</a> has an example at 4'05". The USA had the Hoover Dam in a recession. Italy had motorways. Schemes which encouraged circulation of money locally (rather than on imports), which employed people, and could be wound-down in a boom. The UK had The Community Programme, which did things like running something called a "garden festival" on the site of the local Shelton steel works. Some economist had advised the government against any activity that could crowd-out with the private sector, which would have been a fair point in a boom but this was 1984. A target of <a href="http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1985-06-11a.743.8" target="_blank">230,000 Community Programme employees was stated in the 1984 budget</a>. The figure for <a href="http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1983-11-17a.1006.1" target="_blank">Youth Training Schemes looks like 250,000</a>. The <a href="http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Richard_Garrett_and_Sons">Richard Garrett washing machine factory</a> became one of their training centres and then a museum that states how the YTS was run commissioned from an office called the Manpower Services Commission. <i>"Don't go on the dole - go on the sick",</i> said one miner in a doomed mine that was reported in The Times or The Observer about that time. A lot of those who were made redundant had narrow ranges of job skills, just as places like the coal mining village of Ebbow Vale had a narrow range of jobs. Whether or not a redundant person decides, tactically, to pretend to be sick, it was likely to happen anyway. If you give up a manual job you need to change your diet a lot. UK cookery is not that subtle (lax labelling regulations keep it that way). You need to find other interests. UK suburbs are not interesting (there is a planning act to keep them that way). <a href="http://www.radstats.org.uk/no079/webster.htm">Radstats.org.uk/no079/webster.htm</a> tries to put some numbers on the process and suggests that doctors who signed sick notes or civil servants who read them or even ministers went-along with the process, which seems plausible. I made my own living in the 1990s and early 2000s from people who were not fit for hard work, could justify a sick note, and for that reason were allowed special deals from housing benefit departments in dry-houses or ex-offender hostels or homeless hostels or whatever the industry provided from one decade to another. There was massive unemployment of people at student age, or made redundant; massive loss of prospects for them, and massive loss of opportunities for everyone as so many good factories closed without good reason. I don't know the local youth unemployment figures because we didn't do numbers in the Keele economics course so I have guessed the 60% figure given above - Longton, near Keele was in the news for being about the second worst unemployment black spot, and I've read that Spain has had 50% youth unemployment during their Euro crisis. The series of figures for youth unemployment starts just after this time, when more international standards of counting were introduced; I don't know if any breakdown by age and region exists in 1970s and early 1980s figures because, as I said, we didn't do numbers at Keele and the current series of numbers for youth unemployment starts just after that time. I think people watched television by the 1980s even if I used an inherited valve-powered telly some of the time. We saw government adverts put-out in the evening, to re-assure those still in work that things would get better. They didn't mention the Community Programme and it's garden festival on the steel works site. I remember adverts were written as though to promote employment in clear sensible organised ways from taxpayer money: <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Inward investment. You can get an idea from the Not The Nine O'clock News "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCEamUarOSI">Made In Wales</a>" video below. The advert's catchphrase was <i>"Made in Wales"</i>.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Self-employment (catch phrase <i>"We're going it alone"</i>)<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Re-employment (<i>"Getting a job is a job in itself"</i>).<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Emigration (<i>a lot of people went with no advert - suggest your own slogan</i>)<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bit about finance in the 70s</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<a href="http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/00557850">My own parent's HP finance company</a> stopped taking new business just after 1979, about the time of the MG Abingdon factory closure on TV, but my dad tried to collect & pay debts for years. My parents were early victims of the 1979 policy of raising interest rates to reduce inflation - the idea that the chancellor of should play a trick to close factories, intending to make things cheaper in the shops, which doesn't make sense. My parents were brave about it as parents are, even when the school housemaster rang-up at intervals to be rude for some reason. Maybe he rang-up other parents to talk about <i>"attitude"</i>, but one motive was obvious: my school fees were paid by a fund for old Wellingtonian parents who ran out of cash near the end of their childrens' time at the school. The worse the housemaster did his job and the ruder he was to my dad over the phone, the more likely I would change schools and save cash, which was short a the time. My father hung-up the phone on him. People who read books like Robert Peston will know more about the lending trade than manufacturing, and why lenders are among the first to loose in a recession. Specially lenders who borrow some of their money to re-lend. <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>First, existing customers loose work. Payments dry-up. Eventually, back comes a clapped-out car worth less than the debt. The cars were so badly made that a limited collection of keys would get a lot of Fords open and started, but driving them home was exciting as bits fell-off or went wrong.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Second, referral agents dress-up bad business as good business, just to get the commission. Imagine yourself as a second hand motor dealer with cars you can't afford to repair and customers who can't get secure work to afford to buy them. Put like that, you have trouble paying the rent for your site on Graham Road Hackney. An idea comes to mind. Put "valuable repaired car" "employed customer in secure work" on the proposal form, and you get a commission. This magnifies the problem for lenders, particularly if some lenders' money is borrowed for re-lending. My dad's business closed about the same time as the export manufacturers who were other early victims of the recession. People who read about 21st century economics in the UK - say in 2009 - will know more about the banking crisis than the manufacturing crisis. One edition of (I think) Panorama showed that Britannia Building Society, then based in Leek, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_%28former_building_society%29">set-up a subsidiary at arm's length with a commercial-looking name</a>. The purpose of this subsidiary was to refer bad business to Britannia and earn commission. For example a career psychiatric nurse thought he might get some buy-to let mortgages. He wasn't great at business. He was told by the company's rep that it made sense to buy new-build flats on the Thames in east London as a buy-to-let landlord, at a high projected value. What could possibly go wrong? That wasn't the business of the commission agents, although some managers did contact Britannia and ask why their employment system of targets and commissions seemed to be rigged to force them to refer bad business. There is still a web page for Platform Home Loans:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"With over 10 years experience in the intermediary mortgage market, our customers can depend on our knowledge, expertise and product excellence. To date, we have originated over 165,000 mortgages worth over £16.36 bn of mortgage business. We have also won numerous industry awards including the coveted Your Mortgage Award for Best Intermediary Mortgage Lender for 5 years running."</i></blockquote>
Britannia's bad debts were so large that the firm had to close or merge, and pulled-down it's merging partner, the Co-Op bank, with it as a majority mutual organisation.</li>
</ul>
1979 was also the year of the Banking Act, which licenced deposit-takers and users of the word "bank". The <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_banking_crisis_of_1973%E2%80%9375">70's secondary banking crisis</a> involved lots of not-quite-banks taking deposits for things that only made sense in a boom, like second mortgages, and then going bust in the next recession. The 1979 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_Act_1979">Banking Act</a> made it hard to take deposits off the public, almost impossible to start a new firm called "bank". My dad only had one depositor - Mrs Crow - so it wasn't a bit deal for him, but in the new regime it was harder to raise money if you wanted to compete with banks as a lender until the <a href="http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/companies.htm">P2P work-around of the 20-teens</a>. It's always hard to know why projects that seem good, that get on Tomorrows World, or that offer good jobs don't get loans and the answer is probably different in each case. But a google would probably find something about long-term failure of UK lenders and investors to do business with good borrowers and risk-splitters; the system wasn't made for that purpose. The system was for people in good jobs to invest so-much-a-month into a fund till age 65 with encouragement from tax breaks, and for approved funds to employ very highly-paid people to invest in Sports Direct, and for a pension then to be paid to those very highly-paid people. I read in Robert Peston that banks withdrew a lot from UK lending in those days, so that lack of bank lending from NatWest was part of what stopped my dad re-opening for new business. NatWest Chiswick got through several managers. Each time my dad explained what he did to one manager, that manager would be disappeared by head office and another would be plonked behind the same desk. My dad explained that he lent to niche markets ignored by the main lenders, like people who <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>lived in inner city postcodes and<br />
</li>
<li>bought older cars on HP ....<br />
</li>
<li>through a dealer in Graham Road Hackney who decided how honest the referral forms would be.<br />
</li>
</ul>
That's three above-average risks: NatWest were probably right not to lend. Old motor caravans were another niche market that paid quite well even in a recession. Bigger finance companies wouldn't finance old motor caravans because the computer said <i>"no"</i>, but people only drove them once or twice a year so the things kept their value. The buyers were often in steady jobs or retired, and less effected by recession than people in Hackney factories. The dealer was in Chiswick, near the NatWest branch. NatWest were probably wrong not to lend. Anyway, they didn't lend. I was able to go to college because, if my parents submitted their dismal tax returns to Hounslow Council, I got tuition fees of something like £465 a term plus a full maintenance grant paid a term or two late. That's about the same amount as you get on the dole, paid in one go for a third of the year. I think my parents had hopes of re-starting the business because they bought a computer and software. It was more help to me in getting jobs than the courses at the college where I did a degree. I wanted to study industrial design, but didn't really know how to do after the first refusal and didn't realise that I didn't need good A-level results to study it. So I followed the herd and used the robot clearing system that somehow found places on the University system that everyone else seemed to want to use. The system where people go to talk about talk, rather than learning how to make things. I was mainly at college to study general or political things and get life experience, but a job skill would have been good and I was on the lookout for a way to get cheap finance for my dad's HP company. I didn't discover ways of bundling-up debts into bamboozlement bonds with silly credit ratings as Robert Peston says that other borrowers did, but my dad did try being a credit broker and had hopes of selling-on his debts to a mug of a bank - Bank of America was mentioned - in a buck-passing exercise. The garage in Hackney would supply dodgy finance deals; my dad would pass them on to Bank of America. I don't think he would have done it if it ripped-off Bank of America. I think he would only have done it for good loans. Anyway it didn't happen; that kind of crassness happens more when groups of people have careers to maintain by maintaining conventional wisdom. It seems pretty silly when one self-employed person thinks <i>"shall I rob Bank of America?"</i>. By good luck, I was at a college where the canteen food was forcibly pre-paid and hitchhiking there from London was almost free from a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Gateway_services">service station</a> <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/London+Gateway+Service+Area,+London/Edgware,+United+Kingdom/@51.6337661,-0.3642745,21349m/am=t/data=%213m1%211e3%214m14%214m13%211m5%211m1%211s0x4876168df3ebb565:0x2ab16d2e616eddf1%212m2%211d-0.2645675%212d51.6308539%211m5%211m1%211s0x487616a4641c4895:0x77a3e9ca73292deb%212m2%211d-0.2749%212d51.61366%215i2">near</a> Edgeware tube. For those 19 year-olds who think it's stylish to eat scraps of food, it's possible to cut costs by eating food off abandoned trays in service stations, but there was no need and anyway <a href="http://www.goeuro.co.uk/buses_from_stoke-on-trent_to_london">buses were getting cheaper</a>; Thatcher reforms weren't all bad. I also gained life experience that an ex-boarder with an anxiety habit might not have got in other ways. "<a href="http://www.davemcnally.com/lyrics/thesmiths/hatfulofhollow/" title="and if you must go to work tomorrow well if I were you I wouldn't bother for there are brighter sides to life and I should know because I've seen them but not very often">I should know, because I've been there, but not very often</a>" as the Smiths lyric says.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""><br />
<br />
Chapter <span face="">X</span>: <span face=""><br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face="">the <span face="">bracing routine of st<span face="">udying micr<span face="">o-econom<span face="">ic theory</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
When the maintenance grant finally arrived, I became rich in student terms and the Lloyds Bank computer gave me a Mastercard with a high credit limit at preposterous interest rates, so careful theories about how the money supply could be controlled by government weren't plausible. Those theories belonged to an era in the UK in the 1930s when investors put their savings in government bonds, just as current investors put their savings into housing, with the same careful attention to the money pages of broadsheet newspapers. These things still happen, but consumer credit customers just splurge; my dad's HP finance customers were only dimly aware that their loan was about half paid-off, on average, over the course of the loan, so the interest rate was about double what it first seemed. They knew the interest rate; it was written as an APR figure in big print on the contract, but they didn't do careful calculations or have a lot of choices. Meanwhile, a new kind of product emerged outside of Keele student life. A TV programme called "<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22940451">The Kinky Boot Factory</a>" shows Mr Pateman of WJ Brooks bootmakers at a Dusselfdorf trade fair, after spending the night in a sleeping bag on someone's floor. He used to make a lot of DMs, but the largest manufacturer bought exclusive use of the trade mark in order to sell more imported boots. At the Dusseldorf trade fair, a few feet away from the WJ Brooks Devine stall is something like a fair ground, run by another rival who sells imported boots from outside any welfare state, from a country with a lowered exchange-rate. Someone in the style of Nike and Addidas. <i>"This is the problem"</i>, says Mr Pateman; <i>"They bring boots into the country for $16, and all the rest [of the price] is advertising"</i>. Outside of student life, that's what people buy with their new visa and mastercard credit limits. I met someone who can remember the exact year that imported brands like Nike and Addidas took-over the life of teenagers on a london housing estate.------- Economics of the sort seen on TV screens and experienced by everyone in the lecture hall formed no great part of the course, even though a lot of students were in similar situations. A lot of students must have wondered about this government policy of closing factories to reduce prices, which seemed mad. It would have been good to see how an informed adult discussed the madness. The reality of an economics course was study of obsolete stats skills nearly half the time: whether a blob of data is really a blob, if you don't have a computer to check. Most of the rest was spent doing A-level again, this time taught in a more theoretical way with references to academic journals, rather than textbooks, and that was about it. I suppose I was on one of the least autistic maths-junky courses in the UK, but it seemed as though attending the course was to act as a kind of carer for whoever wrote the syllabus or the textbook, going-through the motions in order not to keep up their morale. The more I find-out about this, the more respect I get for the lecturers who somehow made it learn-able; they didn't get much help from the textbook. At the same time, there isn't a nice way to tell people that you are going to waste their time for a year or two and ask them to sit tests on a load of obvious rubbish. The Quality Assurance Agency suggests using standard words to describe courses, and there is no way that this can can be called by any name that you'd write on a prospectus.<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZlKsHqE6RR-PDLN3u3l7vNOwlNRWMHStfCm3T40o3doLTPEkbVWUWD4m0EYceUTt2Uv9Ho7rryfSgKOwA7P2ME6i2iqEo4b55nxilkq6AIrEHdF4d9uGjGmdFAgTeyCCqT4x2QuESuVFb/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="277" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZlKsHqE6RR-PDLN3u3l7vNOwlNRWMHStfCm3T40o3doLTPEkbVWUWD4m0EYceUTt2Uv9Ho7rryfSgKOwA7P2ME6i2iqEo4b55nxilkq6AIrEHdF4d9uGjGmdFAgTeyCCqT4x2QuESuVFb/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsaTxyaYzzGvEMomu6-d7tnA7oO0PIwXkQPZHlr1gykPSGRV4GQmOJRLyfYpr4BfujMBY6oHrFZ5O3vkdTALHOL-Dxu3GRhRrMXrhIW7Ge_MOkgs-0DbEWHZWyTFgQ1QKEND5Y3yNLPeiH/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsaTxyaYzzGvEMomu6-d7tnA7oO0PIwXkQPZHlr1gykPSGRV4GQmOJRLyfYpr4BfujMBY6oHrFZ5O3vkdTALHOL-Dxu3GRhRrMXrhIW7Ge_MOkgs-0DbEWHZWyTFgQ1QKEND5Y3yNLPeiH/s320/temp.jpg" width="203" /></a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
I remember the cover of a book called <i>Laidler</i> on micro-economics, and have bought one of the many mint-condition un-read copies on the market, to chack whether it is as bad as I remember. Reviews say that it is concise and I suppose it was prescribed for background and revision. Take the picture on the cover, the one in the style of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Set_of_Mathematical_Instruments">Helix Oxford Mathematics</a> sets with the illusion of precision. <br />
<br />
The picture is from the much-ignored "welfare" chapter, so I quite likely didn't study it at Keele and can't blame a lecturer for my ignorance. I think he tried to make the best of it with a <a href="http://www.davegorman.com/" title="Dave Gorman studied first year mathmatics at the University of Manchester">Dave Gorman</a> kind of humour, and I guess that the 80+ economics degree courses in the UK all have someone trying to teach this stuff. They shouldn't. Students should get their money back. If you don't believe me, just look at it, and ask yourself what problem it solves. It is an excercise in making theories internally consistent, in their private world, like the world of a computer game but less exciting. A construction of bendy scaffolding that never turns into a model to compare with the rest of the world, even at the end of the book. The book ends with test questions to help you rehearse a <i>"way of thinking"</i>, as the preface calls it, about how the world ought to behave. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/12/getting-gradually-closer-to-installing.html">This is the bit I challenge you to read.</a><br />
<br />
The diagram on the cover shows a production function. A producer can make this or that. It's quite likely easier to make a bit of this and a bit of that, if there is a tendency to economies of scale, with two producers specialising, one in this and one in that. Or not. The author admits that it all depends on the technology. This is about as advanced as discovering that apples fall off trees in a particular direction, but the author tries to sell these books to second year students on selective full-time courses I think - he certainly says "second year", and suggests that people should have learnt this stuff once already in some kind of introductory class to this introductory class. Then he says that he has cut down on the theory of the firm, because people choose to study it as a specialized option. You have to wonder what lectures were like at the University of Ontario in the 70s, where this Kirmit man taught. <i>"Mrs Coral Parrett and Miss Vicky Whelan coped ... with the tedious process of typing and re-typing the manuscript"</i>, he admits, and someone else did the diagrammes. He doesn't say if Mrs Coral Parrett said it was worse than typing invoices for a living and walked-out, to be replaced by Miss Vicky Whelan. You would expect the book to start with an X-shaped diagram of supply and demand, and state whether this is realistic or whether anyone can ever measure elasticity of supply and demand. If so, do they slope up and down like an "X". The book doesn't get to that point. It takes months to get to the X-shaped diagram, and the elasticity of supply and demand doesn't get a mention, so something like the availablity or more jobs at lower wages and less jobs at higher wages isn't even discussed, at a time or rising unemployment in the UK as the book was written. Chapter one combines two theories in quasi-mathematical form. They are often familiar from A-level, but never taught in such a stupid way. A very theoretical piece of theory, not used for comparison with real examples, but derived one piece from another like a set of scaffolding, and derived somewhere in history; we readers are simply introduced to it in summery.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>This-and-that theory suggests that your budget stretches to a bit of this and a bit of that.</li>
<li>Too-much-of-a-good-thing theory suggests that you might want some of both, rather than too much of this or too much of that. Maybe drawn as a satellite dish with a compass on the diagram. - <i>"as the reader will discover, such tangency solutions continuously occur in geometric representations of economic theory". (p17)</i></li>
</ul>
☒ Is this acknowledged as daft? ☒ Is the theory plausible? ☑ Is this book on the reading list? There's another theme in the book, which is to suggest future benefit. It implies that the course is some qualification to a job called <i>Economist</i>, which was an easier hoax to play before the Internet. It is called an <i>"Introduction"</i>. It says so on the cover, which is about as convincing as Jimmy Saville saying <i>"I'll introduce you to my showbiz friends"</i>, or a photographer saying <i>"you have the potential to be a model".</i> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQeghik4var9TzbJOZ1WR56guJS1EAkAzMoZlC-be1CDrHfEkzRP0E1lv398ulo2TRd-BRA2ebdkDPaxsn-TKGR1xF26Me6sLqb6EyDugxYNUbwSV2cWK6z3p4O7tVN99DGbGivsKM7SPx/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="187" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQeghik4var9TzbJOZ1WR56guJS1EAkAzMoZlC-be1CDrHfEkzRP0E1lv398ulo2TRd-BRA2ebdkDPaxsn-TKGR1xF26Me6sLqb6EyDugxYNUbwSV2cWK6z3p4O7tVN99DGbGivsKM7SPx/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a>Nowadays you just have to click Unistats for 1142 degree combinations with <i>"Economics"</i> in the title, click <i>"accreditation"</i>, and see that there are only 196 of them among the 1142 courses. Glancing at the first few dozen, you see that most of the 196 are accredited to quality assurance schemes; a glance at a few others show courses which double-up as economics courses and part qualification to be a chartered accountant, which is a profession with exclusive rights to sign some company accounts. It is a profession. It's not quite an economics profession, but it is something. Then if you look for an economics profession, the nearest you find on the government careers service site is the civil service job of being an economist, or maybe working for a development agency. Teaching is the most common job. So there is no profession with any special rights to practise, and there are not many jobs called <i>"economist"</i> for a subject with 83 degree awarders and 1,142 degree combinations. Ignoring false claims, there's more general and plausible claim that this book is educational. Unistats shows economics graduates reporting decent salaries (self-reporting, unfortunately; the revenue and customs act forbids anyone to use tax data so it has to be re-discovered from surveys). The educational claim is also untrue. The book states that students will already have studied micro-economics on another introductory course. So this is an introduction after the introduction, designed for year two of a degree, it says. But this book is more dry and narrow than the A-level textbooks that describe exactly the same graphs as rules of thumb with examples, so it is a conclusion, a limitation; a killing-off, a narrowing-down to absurdity. The same book that's called an <i>"introduction"</i> begs the question of whether it is no introduction at all, but a repetitive end in itself: <i>"these concepts will turn-up ... and the reader will see that mastering them has not been an end in itself but simply a necessary precondition for [sic]apply micro-economic analysis to what it is hoped he [sic] will find interesting and relevant problems",</i> it says on page 27. Laidler provides some examples at the back of the book, but they are either algebra or beyond the scope of the book. <i>"microeconomics is at last as much a way of thinking about problems as it is a coherent body of substantive hypothesis, and one does not learn to think along certain lines without actually doing so",</i> the man writes about this very limited way of analysing a problem. After the set of discussion points and exercises is a further reading list, that refers to those same cold-war theorists that usually cropped-up in economics footnotes. The ones who took obvious ideas and claimed to be the first one to discover them in economics, and added a bit of algebra to prove it, like the idea of a tax on something you don't like becoming a <i>"Tobin tax"</i>. Laidler's book made it difficult for the next generation to study proper economics, so I suppose it did a lot of good his career, going-out and looking for things to count that are too boring and inconsequential for anybody else to bother with, like the sizes of clouds or estimates of the money supply. Economists like him, from the University of Chicago in particular, did a lot to wreck the UK economy in the 1980s but there is not account of them apologising, or loosing their jobs, or even of anyone blaming them. My course didn't cover the opinions of Laidler about the economy - that was considered too grand for us to consider, despite the large amounts of money paid by taxpayers for the course. We just studied a few classic journal articles, so we could form an impression of academic theorists. Economic theorists seemed badly-educated and I'm sure a research project would back-up this hunch. Or that they were well-educated in maths, but not much else - maybe in getting <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_4.html">1950s american teaching jobs</a>. They lived in a world of self-censorship during and after the McArthy era, teaching people who had learnt things by heart at high school and were often at college for the sport or to avoid the draft or get better career prospects rather than study a subject. My professor was of that background and era. <i>"We have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree"</i> was one of his memorable quotes. Another had to teach theories of fiscal and monetary policy in a confusingly complex diagram that left-out the reality of the world it tried to describe. I think it might even have left-out imports and exports for most of the course. Then there were more untrue theories taught as lectures and prose, about how world trade without tariffs would help third world countries. I don't know which economics teachers and which ones self-censored on subjects like a <i>"public good"</i>, but I know the theory of a <i>"public good"</i> we were asked to study was worse than useless in discussing what the public sector should do, just as macro-economics of ignorant professors said nothing about how to re-build factories after government had wrecked them. I doubted their motives. Odd notes from my 20-odd self survive in the margin of a textbook and photocopied journal article about innovation. They are vitriolic. My main course notes do not survive; I probably burned them. For balance I should say that <a href="http://ianlouisharris.com/1985/09/02/a-letter-from-keele-professor-les-fishman-2-september-1985/#comment-147">one student learned a lot from the course</a>; it was possible to learn a lot from it, but the nature of introductory economics courses and trouble avoiding two of them in a row made me feel more ignorant about economics at the end of the core course than the beginning; it was as though economics teachers were there to prevent people learning economics. Talking of ignorance, someone asked Paul Samuelson for a theory that's true and not trivial. <i>"<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage">Comparative advantage</a>"</i> was the reply, wrongly; it compares two countries without a welfare state, so that workers have the same minimum costs. Nineteenth-century Britain and Portugal. Looking at the Wikipedia link, you can see it used as an excuse to twiddle-about with maths and show deliberate ignorance of the different minimum costs of people making textiles in, say, Bolton and Bangladesh. There has never been a tariff on Bangladeshi textiles sold in Bolton, despite currency fluctuations, export subsidies by the Bangladeshi government, and a disastrous set of policies there that lead to crowds of poor people scavenging after the few jobs in an export zone. A sane theory would build-in the needs of people on both sides, but no; it doesn't happen on the Wikipedia article. Taking another example, one Keele economics teacher told us the exact page on which Samuelson's textbook said there was no such thing as long-term involuntary unemployment. I think it was p.437 of the 1980s edition. A third example of ignorance: Samuelson's textbook is well known for contrasting command economies with free-market economies. I haven't read the textbook, but assume he says nothing about the mixed economies of Europe. A fourth example. Students nowadays expect to know about <i>"open economy"</i> macro-economics. The reason for that word is that they used to be taught <i>"closed economy"</i> macroeconomics, which has nothing to do with anything unless you are Woodrow Wilson in 1935, imports and exports are a small part of your economy's trade, and neighbouring countries are all following a similar policy. I was taught some set of graphs plotted on a cruciform, like the points of a compass, but labelled something like ISLM. It's very hard to remember when you know it to be un-true; like rehearsing an alibi. To make it worse, each untrue textbook has a slightly different version of the alibi. As a student of a short economics degree course, I know that textbook writers spread ignorance. If students were lucky, as I was, the other half-portion of degree in another subject and the side dishes like politics made-up for this study of ignorant grandees called economics. I don't remember bad lectures; nobody stood with their back to the lecture theatre and read-out slides. I remember good lectures on industrial history and the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">optional course on industrial innovation</a> being good. The generation of teachers who taught at Keele had got the jobs against huge competition. Most of them are published authors with sold-out sections on Amazon and opinions on things like housing waiting lists or african poverty or -ologies and motorcycles that I would much rather have been taught. One book on economic decline and innovation was so good that <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">pirated it</a> . A 1980s student co-wrote something on the Guernsey banking system with one of them, apparently, and another student went-on to write <a href="http://www.priceoffish.info/">The Price of Fish</a>. Googling Keele Economics, I found a blog from an ex-teacher who gave-up the whole thing to become a rowing coach before writing a book - <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/the-economy-of-the-word/">The Economy of the Word</a> - and a <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/">blog</a> with <a href="https://www.blogger.com/">bits about economics teaching</a>. I haven't read either book yet. There were also lectures on why there was not <i>enough</i> unemployment and <i>enough</i> industrial decline in the UK. Use a control+F and search for <i>"cow theory"</i> for more. I suppose the situation in 1984-7 was like the one that 20-odds find today, when they read Robert Peston about why their parents are out of business or redundant or worse.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on what's worse than being redundant</span></h4>
If a few things go wrong in life at the same time, the effect multiplies rather than adds. That's not the multiplier of circulating money; that's the multiplier of stress and bad luck. Bad things include running-down a business or loosing a job - ideally one with a contract and redundancy. Worse things in business include going bust or bankrupt. Or, as an employee, a bullying dismissal dressed-up by crooks as sacking for misconduct, with no reference and a broken system of employment law and tribunals. Crooks are often public-funded, like Professor Piercy of Swansea University who found ways to pretend his colleagues had committed gross misconduct in order to remove them without a reference. Offspring of the redundant and the ceased-trading; the unfairly-dismissed and the gone-bust, go to economics courses with some kind of expectation. I sound a bit glum here. A lot of people leave jobs and become more themselves. They don't know how they stood it so long. Specially the un-paid bits of putting-up with the public or a hierarchy or colleagues. But the sad thing is that a lot of people who want job security, or who want to do a good job for the customers, have to leave.</blockquote>
When I went to college there were just a few pages of course information printed in a prospectus about each course, available to read free from reference libraries or to order by post. Most students would have been directed to them at school during A-level. I don't remember anyone trying to make sense of what the pages said. They said meaningless things like "quantitive methods", "micro" or "macro", so the course was taken on trust. Nobody mentioned that degree courses start again from the beginning, and that lots of people do courses not taught at school; I assumed that you study one subject at A-level and in more detail at degree level, which is how people in boarding school tend to think. It seems a reasonable assumption that there should be degrees for people who have done A-level; someone should provide one. </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="">Chapter <span face="">X</span>: <span face=""><span face=""><br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face="">Consensus <span face="">on</span> <span face="">economics degrees <span face="">/</span> Quality Assurance <span face="">Agency</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjqNbnHhnwIUhx3KTtiCqkyGx_n9rXcCGWutven47rBZkU46U-ISo9xdAB9kNGw614hA3xqW0N_DL5YF-5hL8RE5OPXV2B4zHPNsfGRa5pa4IjS3Fnu0f6ZgrCASvftM5wc4ty1ixfOjDew/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjqNbnHhnwIUhx3KTtiCqkyGx_n9rXcCGWutven47rBZkU46U-ISo9xdAB9kNGw614hA3xqW0N_DL5YF-5hL8RE5OPXV2B4zHPNsfGRa5pa4IjS3Fnu0f6ZgrCASvftM5wc4ty1ixfOjDew/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a>More recently, a quango has had some funding to draft <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf">discussion points</a> for the subject that it sometimes called "expectations" without any legal force beyond the sale of goods and services act if the course isn't described properly and offers something else, but they are default discussion settings for <i>"those involved in the design, delivery, or review of programmes of study of economics"</i>, or <i>"a prospective student or current student"</i>. I guess they're mainly used by external examiners. The points describe loose "<span style="color: #b45f06;">threshold</span>" and "<span style="color: #38761d;">typical</span>" levels, which I imagine like the <span style="color: #b45f06;">amber</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">green</span> of a traffic light that you need to pass to get a degree. The implied sentences mean something like this <br />
<br />
<span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: red;"> ● Ignorance</span></span> <span style="color: #bf9000;"><br />
<br />
● Awareness / appreciation of contexts in which techniques are relevant / knowledge</span> <span style="color: #38761d;"> <br />
<br />
● Familiarity / proficiency / competent use</span></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
1 <span style="color: red;">ignorance /</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of <br />
<u>economic concepts, principals & tools</u>. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDhMNTElog">2</a> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge <span style="color: black;">&</span></span> <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of <br />
<u>distinctive economic theories, interpretations, modelling approaches</u> & <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">their competent use</span>. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijae2WHdc9I"> <br />
<br />
3</a> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;"></span><span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">proficiency</span> in <br />
<u>quantitative methods & computing techniques appropriate to the programme of study</u>, <span style="color: #b45f06;">show an appreciation of the contexts in which these techniques and methods are relevant</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">how to use them effectively across a range of problems</span>. <br />
<br />
4 <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of<br />
<u>sources and content of economic data & evidence</u>, and <span style="color: #b45f06;"><br />
appreciate what</span> / <span style="color: #38761d;">and of those</span> <u>methods</u> that might be appropriately applied to its analysis. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5in_q3oY6Q"> 5</a> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of <br />
how to apply <u>economic reasoning</u> to policy issues <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">in a critical manner</span>.</span> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrAFle0W228"> <br />
<br />
6</a> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge awareness</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of <br />
historical, political, institutional international, social, and environmental <u>contexts</u> in which specific economic analysis is applied. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6azD23X9HtQ">7</a> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> / <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> in an <u><br />
appropriate number of specialised areas</u> in economics as well as <span style="color: red;"><br />
ignorance</span> or an <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciation of the research literature in these areas</span></span>.</span> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8DreQqseww"> <br />
<br />
8</a> <span style="color: #b45f06;"></span> <span style="color: red;">ignorance</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;">/ awareness</span> of & <span style="color: #b45f06;"><span style="color: #38761d;">familiarity</span></span> with the <br />
possibility that <u>many economic problems may admit of more than one. approach</u>. The document doesn't mention social insurance. What if it did? I think it should<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5RbcRPRwoM">9</a> Compulsory insurance-like services make-up about half the economy. State pensions, the NHS, Unemployment Pay and Job Seekers' Allowance, education, all free at the point of use. <br />
<br />
<table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2" style="width: 99%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td width="50%">Economics, Development Studies</td> <td width="50%">History, Social Policy</td> </tr>
<tr> <td width="50%"><span style="color: red;">● Familiarity</span> <br />
<span style="color: #b45f06;">● Awareness</span> <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">● Ignorance</span></td> <td><span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: red;">● Ignorance</span></span> <span style="color: #bf9000;"><br />
● Awareness</span> <br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">● Familiarity</span></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
For working-age benefits, familiarity would include the need to forgo insurance in order to compete for low-paid work in a non-compulsory system. Familiarity with the problem of imported products made by such people in countries without social insurance is important too, and the rapid population growth among the poor of those countries. Other topics could include the administrative cheapness of a universal benefit compared to the costs of a means-tested benefit or a privately-run benefit.<br />
<br />
On Unistats, Social Policy is an obscure tick-box; Economics is quite a separate thing:<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdwo0IwikQma7PZBbyFbERc9YuFAICboV3-qlP21ogj38hSqeIYxi1BUyU2Pyp8ZzsdDd53lcqWQ0dQK4hVWtd6gVTvTpxGinFoQVPF2-1o7609WBDyeBx6Fqem8lls1n0yyoRiIwnymIP/s1600/temp001.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="783" data-original-width="730" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdwo0IwikQma7PZBbyFbERc9YuFAICboV3-qlP21ogj38hSqeIYxi1BUyU2Pyp8ZzsdDd53lcqWQ0dQK4hVWtd6gVTvTpxGinFoQVPF2-1o7609WBDyeBx6Fqem8lls1n0yyoRiIwnymIP/s400/temp001.png" width="371" /></a><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Points 1-8 are accurate notes<span style="font-family: inherit;"> of QAA levels<span style="font-family: inherit;">; <span style="font-family: inherit;">9</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">is</span> added here</span></span></span></span></a></span></span><a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf">.</a> The system makes it possible to sell economics textbooks from Alabama to Bangladesh and West Virginia. Completely misleading concepts like "transfer payments" from rich to poor in a single year, or a slippery word "welfare" must be used in economics instead, followed by the idea of bad "protectionist tariffs" rather than good tariffs around a welfare state. Development of a country like Bangladesh has to be discussed in terms of not getting enough aid from the EU, rather than the need to introduce a welfare state in Bangladesh. If you study history or social policy, the opposite is true, and I believe the second group; I think economics teachers are trained to lie from the starts of their university careers. Positive and Normative economics are separate concepts, according to the textbook. Economists argue about whichever one means social policy, and agree on whichever one is research data. That's what the textbook says at the start but by the end when it's tight for space in the last chapter about globalisation, it just lists what the authors think are good or bad arguments; acceptable or unacceptable, posh or not posh. As economics students we didn't get a chance to find out what other economics students thought, why we disagreed, and whether there was any evidence; we just faced the front and took notes about jargon phrases like "transfer payments". I studied History O and A level. The traffic lights are red for talk of "transfer payments" and green for Bismark's and then Lloyd George's national insurance scheme, successful enough that a jump to a national health service free at the point of delivery and more universal benefits were possible from 1948. A lot of history courses would mention the workhouse system, the tendency of "outdoor relief" or the "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speenhamland_system">Speenhamland system</a>" to need a lot of means-testing. There might be a reference to returning people to the parish of their birth by the cheapest transport and the idea that local <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse">workhouses</a> needed to be basic in order not to attract people from the neighbouring union of poor law parishes, never-mind the working poor. A history course probably wouldn't mention that any residential service is expensive, and therefore provided in a basic way, but these had to be very very basic, like a 1970s boarding school. Systems of temporary casual wards, and arbitrary decisions about who was voluntarily homeless, unemployed, or whatever, were built-in to the system and left to workhouse staff to administer. All of this was devised and debated by economists of the nineteenth century. Owen Chadwick was quoted as an example. A later generation noted vast over-population in inner cities, and wasn't quite sure what to do about out. Charitable donations were huge but poverty persisted, classified with words like "borderline semi-criminal" on Booth's map of London. Compulsory National Insurance began with private but compulsory schemes in 1911, as I think did the state pension. The word National is important, and was repeated in the title of the National Health Service in 1948. None of this appears to be known to economists; I repeat the point somewhere in this blog post while writing about Samualson's lie used to introduce the <i>Public Good.</i> </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Economics introductory courses are nobbled</span> </h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
There's a checkpoint at the wire fence between departments. You have to show your passport and your attitude is noted. The guard is probably an ex-student, treading snow to keep warm inside a greatcoat. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"You are not from Maths? [ pause ] Purpose of visit?" "I am a student on a joint-honours degree". "Definitely not staff?". "Student". "You may pass. Your attitude will be noted if you mention history politics or social policy. Do not talk to the teachers. Do not use original sources. Original ideas will be marked wrong."</i></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
That didn't happen. The building was built for subject mixers. Social science departments shared a long curved corridor, so the economics boss must have walked past other departments' notice boards and over-heard their students conversations, seen how they were taught through glass panels in the doors and seen what books they carried. Even the <i>"proving the existence of fish"</i> cartoon that was stuck to someone's door. So something in the tradition of teaching economics had such a hold over my professors' head that he ignored all evidence and taught misleading facts in a daft way. Oh and the formatting isn't working well today so this sentence has to go here: If you want a structured list of Kermit's lectures for revision: <a href="http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Kermit%27s_Lectures">http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Kermit's_Lectures</a> <br />
<br />
<div>
</div>
</div>
Talking of different departments, there is no guide to the UK constitution that's signed by the head of state, but UK politics departments try to be clear about UK social norms that are probably enforced by government and relate to ideas like democracy and human rights and may be spelt-out in hard-to-find documents from the Magna Carta to the Ministerial Code. Politics teachers are clear that the UK is a democracy, and that human rights are important, even if the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics_Gaddafi_links">Libyan regime has donated to their employer at LSE</a>, their employer at Keele has an "internationalisation agenda", or there are a bunch of people from China or such sitting on the seats in the teaching room. Politics teachers are expected to know about the politics of at least one country, probably the one in which they teach, and describe where it differs from other countries. Economics teachers are not offered this clarity by their traditions of how to teach, nor asked for it in the job-ads I've seen, nor did they offer it to me as a students. The tradition of how to teach economics is recognisably the same in the least democratic states as in the most democratic states. <a href="http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/success/depart/1">The least democratic has little information online about the economics syllabus of its largest university</a>, but the second least democratic state has a recognisable economics course. The good side of this is that there are jobs to be had in Damascus, where they pretend that it's a safe science that benefits the regime. The bad side is that it becomes a boring subject worldwide and worse than useless at describing the good and bad bits of different economies. If Swansea economics teachers have some students - maybe from Port Talbot - asking about dumped steel from China, and students from China on a special deal promoted by central government and <a href="http://waterfrontonline.co.uk/tag/nigel-piercy">Professor Piercy</a>, do they talk about different costs of welfare states compared to sweatshop states with no right to complain or vote? No. Correct me if I am wrong. I would like to say that the <a href="https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://damasuniv.edu.sy/faculties/economic/">Damascus University Web Site</a> illustrates my point by showing that more safe subjects like science are taught than dangerous subjects like politics; that both timetables try to look technocratic and scientific, and that the system favours economics. I would like to say that the courses are described in an opaque way, so that a greater proportion of students go on the wrong course, but there is less trouble from the authorities. I would be bluffing; I don't understand what I'm looking at at the University of Damascus web site, but there is postgraduate teaching of economics described in English and the headings do look quite technical. There are undergraduate department pages for Economics and Politics in Arabic. Cut and paste the urls into Google and click "translate this page" to try to see what's up but it looks as though teaching has been suspended. University of Damascus postgraduate course titles are as opaque as Fishman's timetable. "Quantitative Methods" don't make sense. Like a course in "Muscular Movements" or "Academic Studies". They could be designed to divert attention from police, the people they've arrested and forced to give names, attention from ministers, and party activists who might look for something to complain about or cause trouble. I think these failures of human rights are the biggest dis-incentive to good teaching, but there is no list of the worst countries for human rights online. There are lists of the least democratic countries, so I will take that as the same kind of nasty thing. On a scale of nastiness, Damascus is near the nasty end but the University of Boulder, Colorado was known for constructed dismissals and fake allegations aimed at anyone politically active, followed by the odd summons to a McArthy-like Senate Committee. Colorado was where Fishman learnt his trade as an economics professor. <br />
<table class="contentpaneopen"><tbody>
<tr> <td class="contentheading" width="100%"><br /></td> <td align="right" class="buttonheading" width="100%"><br /></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<table class="contentpaneopen"><tbody>
<tr> <td valign="top"><div>
<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody>
<tr> <td valign="bottom" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Department</sup></span></b></td> <td valign="bottom" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Master degree</sup></span></b></td> <td valign="bottom" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Ph.D.</sup></span></b></td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Accounting</sup></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></td> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Accounting</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Accounting</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Auditing</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Auditing</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Business Administration</sup></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></td> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Business Administration</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Business Administration</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Marketing</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Marketing</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Economy</sup></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></td> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Fiscal and Monetary Economy</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Fiscal and Monetary Economy</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Economy</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Economy</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Applied Statistics</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Quantitative Methods</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Quantitative Methods</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="179"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Banks and insurance</sup></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></td> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Financial Markets</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Financial Markets</sup></span></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top" width="206"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Banking and Finance</sup></span></td> <td valign="top" width="170"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><sup>Banking and Finance</sup></span></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
</div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<span class="article_separator"><a href="https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://damasuniv.edu.sy/faculties/economic/">Undergraduate courses are less clear and probably suspended - quite likely because they don't get you out of conscription any more if you live near Domascus, and there would be no other point in going on them.</a></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Why UK economics courses forget the 1980s mess-up</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset style="text-align: left;">
The first graph says it - page 440, figure 19.2, from the Begg textbook. This was a policy borne of new radical economic advice to a new pugnacious government. Economists aren't going to admit how spectacularly they messed-up, are they? They tend to say something like <i>"the financial services sector is more important than manufacturing in the UK economy"</i>, rather than <i>"stupid economists and politicians killed-off most of manufacturing in the UK"</i>. When John Murray Kolbert wrote a history of Keele for the firm, it was rejected as <i>"overtly political"</i> for saying how much the 1980s recession effected Keele - a 32% funding cut - as though this is something that the Vice Chancellor at the time didn't quite believe. <i>"What am I meant to do? - pretend it didn't happen?"</i>, the author told a journalist listing similar stories from other colleges. <span style="background-color: lime;">This bit is in twice</span> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">data & evidence</span> </h4>
Benchmark standards for economics degrees suggest " <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> of sources and content of economic data & evidence, and <span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciate what</span> / <span style="color: #38761d;">and of those</span> methods that might be appropriately applied to its analysis. " The Central Office of Information does not release a lot of the data you'd want - just aggregated data for demand management. Some data about government intentions was published in "The Red Book" according to one lecture, but I asked in Chiswick Reference Library and was told that it isn't on the library index as "The Red Book". It was harder to find data before the internet and easier to cover-up facts from people who don't want to know them. There were other references in handouts to "UNISTATS", but I never discovered how to find a unistat. And the Central Office of Information statistics were kept well hidden. An odd thing about the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics">Chicago School</a> of economics is that those economists did not look out of the window at the rust belt. They don't use the window for data and evidence. I expect there were parked cars or turf and footpaths outside the windows where economists taught, but they'd see more on their commutes. They would not be much aware of whether Chicago's state of Illinois had better social insurance systems than where rival imports came-from in Japan or Korea or China, raising costs and requiring some kind of subtle conditional tariff protection, but that again is the fault of Chicago economists for not putting that point on the course. An odd thing about UK economists is that they do not look at the back of their gran's kitchen cupboard. There they will find a perfectly good casserole dish and kitchen implements made in the UK up to a certain date. If they are interested in cars or computers, there is similar evidence of how good an MG car is, or the Acorn computer. The sudden lack of data after the 1980s is a bit like the lack of data about dinosaurs after a certain date; the absence suggests a disaster. Economists do not generally look out of the window, or in the back of their gran's kitchen cupboard, or in old computer magazines, so I don't think they are up to the benchmark standard for marking economics degree papers. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: UK PPE courses</span> </h4>
If anyone has ever researched the education of UK shadow chancellors - the ones who have to reach around for an alternative policy - I expect they'd find a lot of oxbridge graduates who know people who have done PPE even if they have not done PPE themselves. They have done a cut-down course rather like the one at Keele. Whatever they studied, it hasn't helped the UK economy do good things as much as other economies. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: UK colleges</span> </h4>
The more mundane the college, the more fantastical the job adds, specially for the head of department. I haven't tested this theory, but if you take Barnsley College as the worst reviewed college on Unistats, and if you find one of their job ads, it will probably ask for miracles in a few sentences and then write about the college itself for pages. The less likely the graduates to get senior jobs, the more "management" is written into departmental titles - just to embarrass graduates and make them feel like failures, while <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jan/28/thedeathofindustrialrelations">discouraging any applicants who prefer "industrial relations"</a> or "work relations" as a title. League tables of best and worst degrees for getting a job list "management science" nearer the bottom of the list than the top. A sensible job ad would ask for someone to find out what teachers want to teach and what students want to learn, then cobble-together the best available compromise and describe it as honestly as possibly on the prospectus, with a warning that it isn't a career-enhancing course if that's otherwise implied. A problem is that applicants are nearly all former teachers with a second degree and some published work in economics journals, who have been given various career-breaks in similar jobs like being allowed to teach an interesting course. They are goodie-goodies. I don't know how to get-around this problem, but it is not by writing a fantastical job ad. The fantastical approach is to ask for world-class ways of filling vacant places by bringing-in students from all over the world to learn the same thing that's in textbooks all over the world. No wonder the con-man Professor Piercy managed to land a job at Swansea Uni. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">Keele Management School is seeking [sic] to appoint an outstanding academic at Senior Lecturer level specialising in the area of Economics. The successful applicant will already have a national or international research profile, have contributed to curriculum development and teaching in the subject area and will demonstrate a proven ability to attract external research funding and of providing academic leadership and management. The Management School has been identified as a strategically important area of development within the University and the successful candidate will have a significant opportunity to help shape this development. The individual appointed will play an active role in the School's research, teaching and enterprise activities and will contribute to the continuing development of the School profile at home and overseas. They will contribute leadership by undertaking research of national and international quality, contributing to the development and delivery of undergraduate and postgraduate programmes and will engage with the School's <strike>globalisation and anti welfare state</strike> internationalisation and enterprise engagement agendas.</span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;">We encourage applications in all areas of economics but are particularly interested to hear from candidates with strengths in the areas of Macroeconomics and/or International Money and Finance.</span></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The add should be compared with the experience of Keele University in hiring Les Fishman, or Cardiff University in hiring <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Minford">Patrick Minford</a>, or even Swansea University in falling for a con man called <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-33651707">Professor Piercy</a>. I remember Fishman as decent person except in those parts of his life that related to me, like doing his job. Slightly funny, capable of the odd off-the-wall thought, decent enough if in business I guess. Good enough at everything but his job and, in fairness, good at parts of that, like interrupting himself mid-lecture for effect, or talking slowly, or not expelling some student like myself who a tutor thought had "attitude". Much better than Piercy who would end-up in court if he was self-employed but does well in a large organisation: nasty and nepotistic with dishonest ways of expelling colleagues. Such a person would never risk an original thought passing their lips unless tactical, and would have trouble getting an honest job. Comments on Piercy reached the Welsh assembly and welsh newspapers, happening at the same time that Swansea University had trouble filling its student places. The Keele advert did not attract Piercy. How to make sure the next one doesn't?</div>
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>This add does not mention an ability to run tutorials</b></span>. A tutor with bad ideas ...can simply stand at one end of the room and talk rubbish. (Historians will know the pattern from other jobs Bourbon God King.) If someone asks why the Servis washing machine factory has closed, they can simply lie, as Fishman did (and I expect a Bourbon God King would do). A teacher who has no idea what students have already studied at A-level can get a job too, even if unwilling to learn and fit teaching to the needs of UK students. That's an example of what you don't learn-about if you don't sit close to the students while teaching (or what a bourbon doesn't learn by not working with parliaments). If events force this teacher back into teaching, then you know from the rest of this page what happens. In happier times, the person is more likely to create a job that doesn't involve teaching - in itinery of corporate plans and overseas recruitment visits, of meetings about meetings and attempts to make the taxpayer pay more and more grants. All of this distracts the other teachers from their jobs; from my own experience in social work quangos, staff are forced into rooms to have meetings and listen to all this. The result is a department that runs more smoothly when the boss is away, a taxpayer with a huge bill and a student who sees a lecturer from a distance. A tutor with good ideas ,,,who wants to work with groups of students and help them solve problems is not lured-in. Here is one who left, for the same reason. (I took the same quote further up the page but this blog post rambles and I doubt many people read the whole thing - anyway I haven't read to the end of the bit it's quoted from; this is all I know) "<i>When I started teaching in the Keele Economics Department in the early 1980s almost half my teaching load was given over to a group of 8 students over the whole year, who attended a two hour problem-solving workshop and one of three tutorial groups of 6 students, besides attending three weekly lectures (at the time all degrees were joint, which had been a Keele innovation). The last time I taught the first year class in 2000, I was allocated the entire year over one semester, divided up into classes of 25 students for one hour a week. The class size had tripled, and the contact time cut to a third" - <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">Tribe</a></i> A teacher who wants to teach like this would not be attracted, I guess, by most of the ads for economics professors. They would do better finding some other way to teach, far better, at far less cost to taxpayers and students. Maybe students should keep tabs on the worst job-ads for professors. <br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>The add does not mention social insurance.</b></span> Talking of UK students, or EU students, one of the main things that European governments do is social insurance, but US economics text books censor it and UK ones follow. Anyone going on an american-style course to find out how much cheaper universal benefits are than means-tested benefits, which countries use a fund to finance benefits compared to countries that use the current account - would be disappointed. It's an economic issue on the news but not in the textbooks.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are a couple of decoys just to annoy. One is a specialisation called <i>"welfare economics"</i>, but that's about something else of little interest till right at the end of the course; it starts with the usual stuff about walruses and doesn't mention social insurance systems as far as I can tell. The other decoy is the loaded phrase <i>"transfer payments"</i> which assumes all public spending to be out of a current account; it is ignorant of the idea of insurance or investment for the future by one generation in order to pay its own costs efficiently later-on. I guess that colleges do not want to upset their funders, if they are a state-funded college in the USA or India where state benefits are rare. Nor incoming students from other countries if the college is in the UK. So awkward problems like the trade between a country without welfare rights or even human rights are glossed-over to suit college management and deny students a good course.</blockquote>
</li>
<li> <span style="color: red;"><b>The add does not mention globalisation, except to approve</b></span> Robert Peston's book mentions the strange nature of low-pay countries exporting their savings to fund the debt of high-pay countries, which have massive personal debts and government deficits. There are also massive flows of manufactured goods like textiles, from low-pay countries to high-pay countries. I think some of the reasons for this are that there is a benefits system in a lot of the high-pay countries, making their goods more expensive even if made in a more mechanised ingenious way. That gives an unfair advantage to people in low-pay countries which their governments are scared to give-up, even if a change would be massively better for the people of Rana Plaza or Quatar or China. At the same time, government people in these countries are in a good position to invest money in Swiss bank accounts or international markets generally, lowering the value of currencies like the Chinese one against the value of Sterling or the Euro. There is a decoy just to annoy. The job ad wants this new lecturer to help suck-in students from all over the world to study, which seems a bad idea because they miss a chance to study their home economies. As a result, there are some dangers.<br />
<ul>
<li>Firstly, of teaching about a kind of standardised mid-atlantic economy which doesn't exist, rather than the UK economy if the course is in the UK. Economies that don't exist don't attract local 18-year-olds to come and study. They attract people who wonder-in by default, as 18 year-olds tend to do.<br />
</li>
<li>Secondly, self-censorship about the worlds' problems because students from whatever part of the world are embarrassed by differences in social insurance, human rights, dumping, democracy, or anything that might be slightly embarrassing to say if there is an awkward mixed group of students from all over the world meeting awkwardly to face a tutor, who tries not to feel awkward. The tutor in turn could be on an insecure contract and want good student feedback, or pick-up teaching habits from that part of their career to use later.<br />
</li>
</ul>
If an economics lecturer can't lecture about subjects on the news or in Robert Peston, they're unlikely to provide the education their students wish to receive. That could be why there are vacant spaces to fill and the college management has an "internationalisation agenda" to fill the spaces, but managers don't see it that way.<br />
</li>
</ol>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: US colleges</span> </h4>
Much of the economic analysis from the USA - the hiring of economists, the editing of journals in the journal ranking lists, the writing of syllabuses, and the ordering of textbooks to suit the courses, is done at colleges like this one: <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160210170800/http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/christian.dippel/Dippel_MGMT405_2013_Syllabus.pdf">anderson.ucla.edu/...MGMT405_2013_Syllabus.pdf</a> One thing clearly known about these courses is that they don't mention social insurance systems from the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_Act_1911">National Insurance Act</a> to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report">Beveridge Report</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report#Implementation">more National Insurance Acts, the NHS</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state">similar histories in some other countries</a>. It's considered controversial in the US, so textbooks used in other countries keep quiet too, with consequent opinions about poverty in sweatshop countries, over-population there, and floods of under-priced imports competing with products in the UK. All these opinions are made in ignorance and given as though scientific. The main reason someone would sign-up for such an awful patronising conformist course, I think, is do <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#Vietnam_War">avoid the draft</a>. When the alternative is to become a squaddie and face the Viet Con, courses like Business Administration suddenly become interesting. The second reason is to pretend it is a good course and bluff employers into offering jobs. In a boom, this might work; there is an <a href="https://moodle2.sscnet.ucla.edu/course/view/Econ-Counseling">email list that lists short term job opportunities at management consultancies to UCLA graduates</a> to me every day or two until I learn how to unsubscribe. The third reason is that state governments lured school leavers into adult education with sports facilities and fraternities that I guess are not available unless you are a student. One reason someone would teach such an awful patronising conformist course, I think, is to avoid the McArthy Committee, and the stiffing sense of conformity that it would bring to US colleges that survives generations later. I read somewhere that High-school and university students compete with each other to show that they conform to the teachers' opinion, and only a proportion can get the good grades that allow them a chance of further study - if they pay for it - while working as teaching assistants and talking to undergraduate students in revision classes. )I asked someone from the states if high school was still like this in the 20-teens and she said that sometimes it is - it depends on the school. Now back to 1955...) Other students don't mind repetitive teaching of the X-shaped diagram under different labels over-and-over again, because they want an easy course. Below this box and before the next heading you will see a video of a glove puppet explaining the letter "X". This link explains the number "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5RbcRPRwoM&ebc=ANyPxKqLDpmBMW_BgEgttwQLkeS76V_APDrGIf47bSC2jOU-aagTimy46X6wJXMY_2puO_huIe2OghGdHB3NTaHEOYq1vFnogQ">9</a>". The grand professor doesn't have to talk to students; there is nothing that he can be blamed for. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_4.html">One article dispairs of postwar undergraduate teaching in the USA</a>. , blaming pressure to attract students. Another - a powerpoint promotion by Colorado University Economics Department about itself - states something similar while praising something called Zubrow, which is a brand of professor: <i>"I choose economics because the building was closest to my fraternity...I stayed in economics because I had Zubrow. - <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/econ/news/50th_anniversary/Econ%2050th%20Slide%20Show.pdf">James Farquhar BA 1986</a></i><i>".</i> I expect the powerpoint is shown to background music while it goes-on to say when they changed each light bulb in the department and how great the star professors are. Textbook publishers have to sell to Zubrow. The first textbooks promoting Keynsian textbooks led to boycotts by college funders. The next - Samuelson - took a more dispassionate and neutral tone and managed to get on the book lists by pretending to be scientific. A textbook that mentioned national insurance or the NHS would have less chance, I suppose, and so its UK edition would therefore probably not mention them either. Economics journals prove my point. I can say this without reading them. The jargon phrase used by protesters was <i>"military industrial complex".</i> If you search the top economics journal on the Keele list using Google Scholar, you'll see that it only crops-up 15 times; they didn't like to publish that sort of thing. If you search Wikipedia for peace of Vietnam songs, you will find a page title. If you type "military industrial complex" into a song lyric search engine, you'll even find it there. I don't know what it rhymes with, but it's there. Anywhere but on the economics course. Another test and another anecdote. In my first year at Keele - I met someone who politely asked me about my economic views. He was an older boy who had turned-up a week late at Gaysoc, the student union group that met in the first week of each year so that gay people could recognise each other. In ignorance, I only turned-up to the second or third meeting. Just me, this social work student, and the odd cartoon character. "You must admit", my new acquaintance said, "monopoly capitalism is pretty inefficient way to run anything, isn't it?". "Yes", I said, thinking I sort of knew what the words meant but that my education at boarding schools and from reading <i>The Times</i> had not prepared me for this. By the end of the economics course I was no wiser. That's odd because I guess the idea has something to do with Marx (Durkheim was more interesting according to a teacher on the Foundation Year lectures, but I read neither), and Marx came-up on the fringe of my other subject, English. Some people use Marx to provide a cheat-sheet checklist of things to say about a novel if they can't think of their own ideas, which is what you have to do to earn your student grant or be an academic; you have to think of something to say; Marx provides a checklist, like an economic model. At Keele people have to be quite good at thinking of their own things to say because there is no time to study what one book says about another book. Keele students are like Captain Mainwaring ; <i>"no time for all that red tape: we have to use our initiative"</i>, with Sargeant Wilson as tutor <i>"are you sure that's altogether wise?"</i> There's a free promp on the campus that suggests ideas. The old building is an economic model. It was built for a coal-mine owning family, with a floor plan the size of a hotel, while the miners' housing has fewer square meters per house. You could fit a street of the mining villiage into the the coal mine owner's grand building. On an economics course, this should suggest to students that market forces didn't work very well; there was a glut of coal-miners or a shortage of coal-investers, and barriers to miners who wanted to become investers. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""><<span face="">DIGRESSION ENG.LIT</span>></span></span> </h4>
My other joint honours course was English Literature, which I hadn't done before. It started like a book-club, in the hope that students would find something to say about the week's novel. Similar foundation year courses sometimes failed: it would turn-out that not a single student had read the novel, and the tutor had to talk about it for the whole hour. I think that only happened twice in my foundation year, and never too obviously in the main degree course which was more in demand. Among that proper joint-honours students there were usually a few who had read at least half of the book and we found enough to say without an extra course called "finding something to say: official critical apparatus for eng. lit. students". I heard one student from an early tutorial tell the tutor that she had more attention from staff at sixth-form college than at uni. He said it was maybe to do with the cuts. I had some messy pointless reason to talk to a tutor in English once, and he said "I'll have a think and you have a think" while walking down stairs and into a private room. I met some odd person who had heard of the Keele English course and said that it repeated A-level a lot and was old-fashioned. I was just amazed to be allowed-in. The amazement lasted at least a year and I was still interested in year three. I was paid £3,000 a year to sit once a week among people with big hair and long names discussing Jane Austin and then find myself tricked into learning some theory without knowing it and writing about any darn thing I wanted. I think the English staff had had the same problems as the Economics staff in avoiding the repetition of A-level and finding new things to teach in a sausage machine, but somehow solved the problem because it was a more sought-after subject and had no un-squash-able core, and expectations were very soft. If anyone was the person who had to be taught because of the foundation year and clearing and commitment to subject-switching, it was me. I think I detected that when asking to study English. The tutor even asked me about things like spelling, and I said it didn't matter, and he checked with his boss, and no: it didn't. I wrote about the role of the narrator, the book's strange relationship to the reality of readers' lives, and something else came to mind each time, so that was three themes per essay. I read the beginnings and the ends of each book, the preface, and the middles of the ones I did for essays: one a month, also revised for exams. The first year courses were "Augustans and Romantics", leaning on excerpts from an anthology "Augustans", I guess, and another called "<a href="http://www.orgs.miamioh.edu/anthologies/oxford.htm">Romantic Poetry and Prose</a>". The next course was "Victorian Literature", which is OK if your teachers allow you to say what you dislike about it as well as what you like. One of my essay-and-exam-revision subjects was Thomas Hardy, who confuses women and fruit. I am no good at heterosexual flirting, but I think Thomas Hardy would have been worse. He gave up the whole writing-thing after world war one when somehow life seemed diferent, for reasons I could probably once list in essays. In the final year the department offered a lit-crit-kit from Roland Barthes, and compared with a very British writer on similar subjects - Dick Hebdidge - for perspective, and wrote a long essay which I had to stop half way through but would have been very clever and wry if complete. Somehow I passed the exams and still look back on it as fun at the time and worth doing. I tend to remember third year tutors more than others, for some reason. Maybe I had the same tutor two years in a row. Mine now works at <a href="http://www.york.ac.uk/english/our-staff/john-bowen/">York Uni</a>. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></D<span face="">IGRESSION ENG.LIT</span>></span></span> </h4>
</blockquote>
A more through piece of research about economics tracks the amount of ticky-tacky in journal articles, specially algrebra, and finds a great increase in the 50s - 80s alongside emigration of US economics lecturers around the world. (<a href="http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~hirm/Downloadpapers/Backhouse,%20Middleton%20and%20Tribe%20%281997%29%20Economics%20is%20what%20economists%20do%20con%20ver.pdf">Brackhouse Middleton and Tribe, 1997</a>) . A third article states that theoretical articles peaked around the mid 80s when researchers got their computers, but I can't find the reference. (Somebody, 2000s-ish) <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: UK newspapers</span> </h4>
Their positions are well known; I remember that <i>The Times</i> changed a lot under Murdoch in the 1980s, and the government PR machine was ruthless in talking about the world as seen by newspapers rather than the world in the tables of stats or outside the window, so the collapse of UK manufacturing somehow got reported by changing the subject to some metaphor or other like <i>"taking-on the unions"</i> or muddled facts like <i>"world recession"</i>. I remember an article which I thought was typical. It said <i>"Happy Good Quote Minister" bla bla minister of employment Norman Fowler soundbite bla bla.</i> <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <b><i>Blob.</i></b> <i>Fact contradicts minister fact fact fact fact - this is a technical small bit with less of an editorial line"</i>.<br />
</li>
</ul>
Later-on, <i>The Times</i> never quite admitted that a UK generation and their dads had lost-out, or not in the bigger articles, but did show a picture of graduates at Trinity College Dublin, writing that nearly every single one had emigrated during the 1980s. When Geoffrey Howe, 1980s chancellor, got an obituary he was quoted as writing wonderful successful budgets until an entirely unrelated tiff about the price of sterling caused him to resign from the cabinet. You could see that there was something wrong with The Times under Murdoch. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: failure in one area puts up house prices in another</span> </h4>
Add to that the patchwork of how people live on a map of the UK. Manufacturing was mainly north and midlands, with bits around London and inner cities. A policy that killed manufacturing made Londoners a lot better-off because property values shot-up when everyone in the rest of the UK tried to get service jobs. A map makes the point <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033</a> Every newspaper editor, MP or even some journalists who owned property near London did very very well, because a lot of service jobs were based in the South East. So they thought the economy was doing well under Thatcher and Blair too. I guess that members of the new Monetary Policy Committee that discussed the thing under Blair and Brown and Cameron had a lot of property in the South East too, so something in their gut feelings said: <i>"things are going well"</i> Someone asked Vince Cable of the other English party whether he believed in controlling inflation via interest rates set by the monetary policy committee and he said <i>"yes of course"</i>, even in the 2010s. Everybody who was anybody seemed to believe in wrecking the economy, and I think doubts only began when Mark Carney was appointed to the Bank of England from Canada and tried to explain that exports and industry are important.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">historical context: things got worse since my 1980s degree</span> </h4>
The degree which I started by saying was bad - in a question on Quora I think - turns out to be better than most; Professor Fishman, his colleagues, and the demands of a short course for a lot of people all made it less mathematical than most. He even allowed colleagues to teach about economic institutions failing - just like Robert Peston and authors like that. Apparently it is called "Institutional Economics" and is rare. I might have witnessed a golden age of economics teaching at its peak. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> book was written by someone on the staff, <a href="http://www.zyen.com/component/content/article.html?id=743:price-of-fish">The Price of Fish</a> was written by an ex-student, and a staff member worked with an ex-student to write about the Guernsey financial system and then tax havens. Another wrote early input-output tables for Staffordshire and work on water poverty. Google tells me that Keele economics graduates have gone-on to be lay members of some kind of governing council, and done some impressive other jobs as well. The number of economics students who think their teachers haven't got the right idea has risen, I guess from sites like Post Crash Economics and points of view from teachers, who say "What problem?", or use the "Because I say so" argument to state that economics is a very mathematical subject. Courses like the one at London School of Economics require no A-level in economics, but a couple of A-levels in maths, just in case any student will (a) program stats software for another generation with their maths knowledge, and (b) have the right nous and facts available to put into the software, after studying maths and one other A level which is likely to be related because the applicant got good A-level grades: maybe "maths called something else (MCSE) A level". Not history for example. If they'd wanted to do mixed subjects, the current pressure on schools to show good results would have prevented them. A member of school staff would have refused any application to study history and economics at the school in case it lowered their grades on the league table. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on whether mathematical economists are right: use control:F for mathematical economists</span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on wanting to do economics</span> </h4>
I also want to do this because my own run-down business is threatened by economists and interest groups. The aid trade and free-traders agree that dumping from Bangladesh is a good thing for those in Rochdale and those in Rana Plaza. I don't agree. The fashion PR industry agrees that London Fashion Week and their idea of the Fashion Industry earns 35bn for the UK economy, and paid Oxford Economics to produce a document to say so. I want to prove a different view.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Why British manufacturers under-invested, except Morris who under-invested</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: right;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morris,_1st_Viscount_Nuffield">Mr Morris, Lord Nuffield</a>, was a bicycle repair boy, businessman, and car manufacturer who ran a thifty factory. He benefited from a long career as he rode a bike for health and left school at the legal minimum age. His brands were MG, for Morris Garage, and Morris. He's quoted as saying <i>"keep the walls bulging"</i>, meaning <i>"keep doing things in thrifty ways"</i>.He was also fairly consitent with his suppliers, helping firms like Lucas and the forgettably named <a href="https://www.borgwarner.com/" rel="nofollow">Borg Warner</a> who made steering stuff, Skip-down to the heading <span style="color: red;">"Mr Morris of Morris Motors was different."</span> a page or two down, if you want to see why this story about car factories overlaps with education. During the 70s, a large proportion of people worked in manufacturing but it was hard to report in newspapers. Journalists decided to take car manufacturing as a kind of model for other industries, because all of us can glance at a car on the road and see if the bottoms of the doors are rusty or the design looks bad. Economics overlapped more with manufacturing in those days, and economic journalism overlapped a lot more with motoring journalism. I don't know when Mr Morris left the company before his death in 1964, but when Minis sold well in I think the early 70s, the people at British Leyland ordered another mini production line exactly like the first in order to boost production alongside. That's from a book called <i><a href="https://openlibrary.org/works/OL5272422W/Why_are_the_British_bad_at_manufacturing">"Why are the British bad at Manufacturing?"</a></i> which was a common worry at the time. When the market moved towards sales reps buying company cars for motorways and commuting, some Leyland models had a 2 foot gear lever to give drivers enough leverage to move the Austin Gypsy gear box; the company was good at ordering sheet metal boxes with no need for a girder chassis and putting existing components into them, but bad at developing new engines and gearboxes and the rest to put in them. They obtained those designs and tools by merger with companies that already had them, like Triumph that had some kind of decent gear box but no sheet metal chassis. They hadn't the nous to develop machines cheaply, as Formula 1 teams do, nor the money to do hundreds of expensive experiments and get better machines by sheer trial and error. Lastly, none of the firms was good at making the jobs do-able. There is a documentary about Ford of Dagenham which was one of the more profitable ones, in which even the Chief says that he first visited the place and found it oppressive. People from the assembly line are interviewed and say that the knack was keeping sane; some of their colleagues were less good at it and vented frustration through industrial action. Recent news about car factories fiddling the EU emissions standards show that car development costs are still a problem; they weren't just a problem for Leyland. The British public were another problem - whether working for car companies and choosing the designs, or buying cars and choosing the designs, the result from all UK car factories was moulded sewing on the door trims and printed wood-grain on the dashboard with silver paint round the edge. It was an odd combination of good design and bad design. I'm not sure of the faults model-by-model, but the false economies of factory design were similar to false economies in product <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Marina#Running_gear">product design</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Marina#Today">quality</a>. The thing like a bike chain that linked the top of the engine to the bottom would rattle when it became loose: you can hear whether a car is a British Leyland model before you see it. When customers asked for cars in different colours and styles, the Oxford factory didn't devise a way of making them to order as <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033zfvw">James May</a>; I suppose they made them in batches and just hoped that their dealers could keep enough variations in stock. I don't know any facts to support this hunch, but re-reading the <i>"<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">British Industrial Crisis</a>"</i> book I see that there were vast stocks kept at UK factories for reasons like this; their machines were hard to set-up for small batches and making things-up as they went along was out of the question. There's also a quote about pounds per worker shown as capital in UK manufacturing firms, which is under a fifth of what showed in Japanese firms at the time. Some of the investment might not have shown because of accounting conventions, but at a time of new motorway-using customers, new sheet metal chassis designs, and new demands for fuel efficiency, this written-off capital probably wasn't so important as the new stuff that was on the books and easy to measure. <i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Table 22. International comparison of assets per employee, 1976</i> <br />
<br />
<span face=""><u>Assets (k)<span face="">/</span>employee</u></span> <span face=""><u><span face=""><span face="">Motor industr</span></span><span face=""><span face="">y</span></span></u> <br />
British Leyland <span face=""> </span> 8,505 <br />
11 Japanese firms [average] 42,020</span> <br />
<span face=""><u><span face="">Assets (k)<span face="">/</span>employee</span> Electrical engineering</u> <br />
GEC (UK) 9,725 <br />
Siemens (Germany) 16,479 <br />
Hitachi (Japan) 34,680</span> Source: F. E. Jones, 'Our Manufacturing Industry — the Missing £100,000 Million' Nat. West. Bank Quarterly Review, May 1978, pp. 8-17. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
My hunch is that factories under-invested because there was less and less land available for factories, because the government allowed free trade from dumping exporters in Bangladesh, because banks were less and less keen to lend, and because families tended to send their offspring to expensive and counter-productive education systems, particularly the 10-year boarding-school system which is both. There's also the effect of war - something shown in Fishman's own autobiography. Risk-takers are likely to survive less than the risk-averse; promoted people less than the back-office. Fishman survived his role as US sargeant in the second world war by negotiation, and just got through. War also effects the amount of money that's about - whether to invest or consume - but an odd thing about the inter-war years is that so many anecdotes suggest consumption. People laughed at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Wooster">Berty Wooster</a>. They dressed-up rather than dressing-down. I asked my mum, while looking at old photos, why perfectly sensible ship managers should want to play Birty Wooster and be photographed in front of rhodedendrum bushes or cars, or holding guns for sport. Why not in front of a tractor or a trawler? She said that between the wars nobody wanted to think about anything serious, or at least not war. It had been round once, it would quite likely happen again, and people just wanted to think about something else. Another theory is easier to state. With high unemployment, it's useful to use more labour compared to capital. With a bad social insurance system, as existed between the wars, there are more large families providing the next generation of unemployed. Then when a boom finally comes, nobody is sure how to do things more efficiently - factories are a bit like those public sector jobs where everyone has to sign for the lavatory paper and there are people paid thousands a year to save buying a machine costing hundreds. During the war, my grandmother had to learn how to cook from the pages of cookery books and wasn'r really sure how to make a snack. After the war, there was a labour shortage in factories for similar reasons I guess. There are also huge un-measured differences between people that, if averaged-out among the people who make decisions, are important. The psychologist Oliver James takes the Royal Family as an example of people who showed signs of obsessive compulsive disorder over a few generations, in ways that were probaby (if not provably) common among the people around them. A preference for ritual. Unusual emotional attachment to protocols and dress codes. A teacher at my school said that when he worked in Australia, the Obsessive Compulsive Headmaster thought every boy <i>should</i> wear long trousers have turnups, but if I remember the anecdote, there was some Edwardian Royal who should that everyone <i>shouldn't</i> have turnups. From what I remember of school teachers, they could get angry if the mysterious codes were broken. Think Duke of Edinburgh. Think <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping_Yarns">Ripping Yarns</a>. Getting back to the trouser turnup people, neither would be good at running a textile company: they disliked innovation. But these people were common and now increasingly common among head teachers - parents seem to choose schools where such people work. Maybe a way of encouraging innovation in an economy is to help pupils avoid this kind of school. I know something about the result of under-investing in factories from my own business. The result is a room full of basic machines that are designed not to wear-out quickly; the most important thing they do is not wear-out half-way through a job. In some jobs, this means a diesel engine. In footwear manufacturing, it means hydraulic presses and stretching machines. I try to find suppliers who have this stuff and invest even less. The second most important thing the machines do is make stuff, in so far as a press or a knife or a mould can, but the output possible from a highly skilled worker is nothing special. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><b>Digressions stuck together</b></span> For context, I should say that my own <a href="http://veganline.com/">shoe business</a> runs with piles of inventory to support minimum batch sizes for free setup and delivery, and that my mum and dad's old Ford Cortina had a gear lever that came-off by mistake at one point, revealing a hole through to the tarmac down below. The Cortina shared a lack of undercoat or rustless panels with the equivalent Morris Marina from British Leyland. Come the recession, we had to go to adult education classes at Chiswick Comprehensive to try to coax a few years' more life out of the thing, learning how to use elastic plastic padding, Venetian Red spray, and T-cut to try and restore rust holes - even on the bonnet. Fake sewing was standard too, as well as poo or vomit coloured browns and a little printed woodgrain on the plastic, with silver-paint highlights. Ford and Vauxhall were not much better than British Leyland, which was used by newspapers as an emblem for what was happening at a lot of other UK factories. I read somewhere that the idea of staff working as unionised teams who would bid for wages by striking was more of a ship-building problem than a car-building problem, but newspapers reported strikes in car factories because newspaper readers could see the factory products driving-around so car factories were a better emblem. While googling this blog post, I discover that ICI and Servis Washing Machines used early computer systems or similar to keep the job tickets flowing round their factories, so not all UK factories were under-invested just as not all UK products were bad.</blockquote>
Usually, owner-managed firms under-invested in order to pay 10 years' boarding school fees to make their offspring useful to the business, without success. I have no figures to back this up but ask your granny if you are posh. Usually, larger firms under-invested to please the stock market's need for short term results at the expense of long-term investments. Paternalistic pension law for private pensions had channelled a lot of peoples' savings, but not their voting rights, into managed stock market funds run by pension companies. Someone who worked for a big firm might well pay for shares in the same firm, but the voting rights would be used against that person's interests by calling for short term profit and nothing else. Worse still, someone in a medium-sized firm that ran its own pension company might be forced to invest pension contributions in this same company but have no control over the business when it went bust owing money to the pension fund. Unions made no effort to find a solution to this problem; it still isn't solved.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Mr Morris of Morris Motors was different.</span> </h4>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
Mr Morris, Lord Nuffield, under-invested in car factories in order to better educate the entire UK population through the Nuffield Foundation. If economics and science teachers had paid more attention to the Nuffield Foundation and ways of teaching technical subjects from students' own observations, then there would have been a workforce ready to work at MG or British Leyland as easily as they could move to jobs like finance and engineering and factory management. The gist of my <a href="http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/nuffield-physics-1962">Nuffield Physics A level</a> had been to learn from experiment as some of us learn from looking at a bicycle. Mathmatical statements were as carefully edited for clarity as sentences in the textbook, and most were obvious from experiment anyway. The syllabus used wave-motion as a theme to teach capacitors, springs, and water waves, so that it was easy to do three at once. The course used microwaves and special-size ping pong balls to help us discover nuclear physics. I think there were Nuffield Foundation books as well, with a similar graphic style to the one above but no pictures. I was lucky and got a good teacher so we didn't have to use text books much. If the system had been taken-up more widely, there would be no need to invest huge amounts in research and development; car factory staff at Moris would simply sort out the problems from nous. Unfortunately the Nuffield Foundation passed control of its syllabuses to Edexel a few years ago, but the ideas might remain and they might be persuaded to work with other universities or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_boards_in_the_United_Kingdom">the more obscure A level exam boards</a>, which I guess are based in Wales and Northern Ireland. The Nuffield Foundation paid £20,000 to help set-up the short loans section of Keele library for groups of people who all wanted short-term access to books at the same time. If the Keele Economics department had asked dozens of students all to read a chaptor of Keynes in the same week, dozens of copies could have been bought and lent-out. The library was a few hundred meters from Keele economics department. Unfortunately, teachers didn't keep-up with Mr Morris and his Nuffield Foundation; they were still teaching science from theory and overly-repeated algebra when I studied economics in 1984, the year British Leyland dropped the Morris brand. We still learned Keynes from a textbook instead of every student borrowing a copy of Keynes for a week from the library. The Nuffield Foundation outlives Morris and British Leyland, and funded an A-level syllabus called "Economics and Business" which ran for a few years from the 1990s, with some help from teachers at Staffordshire University. Control was taken by Edexcel a few years ago. I imagine that the two smaller exam boards would run a similar A-level with help from the Nuffield Foundation, or a group of university staff and activists, if the three main boards no longer run anything good. Two smaller Welsh and Northern Irish boards are protected form London political interference by fear in London of Belfast and Cardiff political interference. Their main worries are their percieved fixed minimum costs of running an exam, and other's fixed minimum costs of writing a textbook or such. For example the Northern Ireland board's music exam doesn't have a textbook published to go with it. So there is still scope for writing a good economics degree syllabus that follows a good economics a-level syllabus; the difficulties are doing the work of writing a good A-level syllabus, and persuading those who pass the A-level to follow it with a degree. I expect the university that ran the degree would have to run coaching sessions or some special course to take the a-level for those who otherwise lacked the right knowledge. <i>"Nuffield Economics & Business courses sought to introduce both subjects by examining familiar situations, allowing students to develop an understanding of the ideas that can be used to make sense of what is happening around them. Concepts were always introduced in context."</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">If an economics professor won't profess about recession, should they retire?</span> <span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Obituaries in national newspapers should be published</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">The teaching <span face=""></span>on my <span face=""></span>course II</span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">Staff...</span></span> <span face="">1</span>.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> are good at explaining things 2.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> have made the subject interesting 3.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> are enthusiastic about what they are teaching The course is... 4.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> intellectually stimulating - National Student Su<span face="">r</span>vey</span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><span face="">...</span> <i><span face=""></span>increasing critical facility and independence as the [core] course progresses.</i><i>... foster active learning. A variety of approaches to managing the learning process may be adopted to achieve this, including</i> <i>lectures</i>, <i>seminars</i>, <i>tutorials,</i> <i>workshops,</i> <i>peer teaching and learning,</i> <i>project-based learning<span face="">,</span></i> <i>experiments,</i> <i>games and technology-enabled learning - Quality Assurance Agency</i></span></blockquote>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">good at explaining things</span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<THE KEELE BIT> There's a pattern on unistats. Staff at most colleges are usually good at explaining things; they do their job pretty well and Keele staff sometimes score 100%. Keele short courses are a career-trap for lecturers. It's hard to move-on from teaching them and teachers stay with the patience of elephants, getting slightly better each time. The prospectus says "we've been teaching it for fifty years". I remember some lecturers were quite funny, even about the micro-economics of indifference curves. I don't remember any lectures where lecturers read stuff off slides or classes where staff weren't engaged. A lot of them were published authors. I remember snatches of stuff about input-output and something-iev cycles that were interesting because applied to a purpose, and not applied as a maths excercise. Staff were good when allowed to run tutorials and teach relevant subjects as well. One that I got in year three wrote <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">such a good book that I've pirated it</a>; nothing like it would have been available at other colleges. </THE KEELE BIT> <THE SCIENCE BIT> Theory without application, Algebraic shorthand obscuring the theory, Derivation of one theory from another, rather than from evidence Critical after-thought if there is time, but not a critical look at evidence an different theories that might explain it. These are criticisms of science teaching and of economics where it tries to look scientific. </THE SCIENCE BIT></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">made the subject interesting ...</span></span></span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">enthusiastic about what<span face="">?</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
When a subject is beyond hope, the best thing to do is to say so. At the University of Maryland in the 1950s, people on craft courses from jewellery to puppetry had to sign-up for the Department of Home Economics. Apparently the Jewellery tutor had to give the core lectures one particular year. Early film of Kermit the Frog, the economics-teaching puppet who was spawned on the course, show him listening to bald home economics lecturer who gave him some ideas. <i><span style="color: #990000;">"Yup: that's the whole salad bowl"</span></i> is a Kermit phrase. At 1980s Keele I remember a teacher saying <i><span style="color: #990000;">"Under-whelming, isn't it?"</span>,</i> which was funny, and <span style="color: #990000;"><i>"it's nothing earth-shattering"</i></span>, while the chief came-up with <span style="color: #990000;"><i>"We <u>have</u> to teach this stuff, in order to call this an economics course!"</i></span>. That was during a revision lecture about charts called IS-LM. He caught somebody's eye in the lecture audience. Referring to some conversation or complaint or threats of mayhem. At Glasgow in the 20-teens teachers are reported as saying, if asked, that a theory is <span style="color: #990000;"><i>"not particularly illuminating</i>"</span>. There was a problem with the classes and lectures, which is that they were not related to a textbook that I remember, and the reason for remembering is that the class and the textbook said different things in year two macro-economics. Diagrams like figure 20.6 below were from journal articles and 1970s textbooks like Samuelson and Lipsey I suppose. It would have been good to know which one, because the course textbook - Begg, 1984 - glosses over the subject very quickly and then explains why the ISLM theory isn't really true. I doubt the person teaching the course knew what textbook we'd bought or that the person who prescribed the textbook knew that it said something different to the course. When the subject got "intellectually stimulating", meaning one problem-solving course, it was great. Feedback from one teacher who tried modelling an aging population and pension costs was that his course "was the last thing students wanted to learn", but the method and idea of teaching that way was fine.</blockquote>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face="">The</span> course <span face=""></span>is intellectually stimulating</span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>manual computation of statistics and a range of<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>micro-economic rules of thumb, taught in a quasi-mathmatical way without purpose. Instead of saying the price goes up at A level, or saying <i>"the price goes up in theory, and computer stats are usually the same so we can talk about the differences"</i>, you say P ' moves to P''.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>macro-economics rules of thumb taught without reference to the economy.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Any course will teach to people who are un-taught, and looking for life experience because they are young. Some of them don't even want to study economics but applied because they thought it was such an unpopular subject that it would get them a student place. These people, like me, could have done with a bit of help in knowing each others' opinions about economics and maybe even more, but it was not to be. We faced forwards, like heterosexual boys at a urinal, and didn't look at each other.<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<h4>
<span style="color: red;">Stats</span> </h4>
I have another paragraph somewhere about stats. Dinosoar Theory without omputers. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Micro-economic rules of thumb</span> </h4>
Take these two rules of thumb combined. They're from chapter 1 of the micro-economics book. I've put them in prose. <i>"If your budget allows some of this and some of that, you can draw quite a clear line to say how much of each you can afford. If you prefer some of each, that's quite a likely outcome. To digress, if you take the rule of thumb about diminishing returns and apply to both this and that, you get a thing called an indifference curve, if it is curved. Or not. It depends on the example."</i> That is pretty-much how the rules of thumb are taught at A-level, but at degree level there is some need to derive them like universal laws and express them as curves named by letters, with a superscript for a moved curve. That's the simple bit. More mathmatical courses put it into algebra. Why? I don't know. Even the curves are strangely forgettable without an example. To study them is like trying to remember the lyrics to <i>Ra-ra-Rasputin</i>. No wonder students often have to learn them twice. <br />
<br />
<h4>
<span style="color: red;">Macro-economic rules of thumb</span> </h4>
Macro-economics teaching started with the same concepts of demand-management as A-level and extended them into a kind of charting or modelling exercise called IS-LM, done without comparison against facts, so that left the chart, which looks like a bus map. Unfortunately the department couldn't afford teachers' editions of the textbook, or even the currentl textbook, for staff to tead. If forced to mug-up a course at short notice, they had old editions of Lipsey or Samuelson textbooks I suppose, while students had a new one called Begg which disagreed with earlier textbooks about the importance of IS-LM. It skips ISLM as something no longer relevant. This is a difficult start for a lecturer who usually teaches international trade and has to mug-up a course on macro-economics at short notice. Previous generations of students got a course on funding the welfare state with an aging population, but we fell-back on the standard textbook IS-LM course. <b><i>IS-LM</i></b> four quadrant charts predict <b><i>I</i></b>nvestment, <b><i>S</i></b>avings, <b><i>L</i></b>iquidity and the <b><i>M</i></b>oney supply, all interacting according to schools of thought in some impressive-looking way that means nothing. Maybe the <b><i>I</i></b> is for interest, savings, liquidity, and the money supply. Certainly not <b><i>I</i></b> for imports - those are some kind of extension to the diagram, little-mentioned. It is a point of pride that the axis are labelled with letters, rather than proper words, in order to look more technical. There are no number to give a clue either. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. I found a version on the net that has letters for "North West" and "North East", added in case useful. The Keele version probably came from a Lipsey textbook and was otherwise much the same.<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipRRbb8Ktt51ynyxUiyn7JHFC70rJ62fir9Z37fNfyh24eCZzBbssLNVen_RuIQvdTUNo18WvRggIpkxrlwShhTfnKFBHS0DSaaxaDOLR9dZee-sriaWfs4jJAas6NBz2F95YqY2Oyqh8J/s1600/clip_image004_thumb91%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="377" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipRRbb8Ktt51ynyxUiyn7JHFC70rJ62fir9Z37fNfyh24eCZzBbssLNVen_RuIQvdTUNo18WvRggIpkxrlwShhTfnKFBHS0DSaaxaDOLR9dZee-sriaWfs4jJAas6NBz2F95YqY2Oyqh8J/s400/clip_image004_thumb91%255B1%255D.jpg" width="400" /></a> Students find this as hard to study as lecturers find it hard to teach. It's hard to know what's being taught and examined - whether the truth, the lecture, or the textbook, that each contradict each other even before the student starts trying to use this education and find the answer. It would help to have a purpose for the model, but no purpose is given; it is just "the model". It's all very confusing and likely to put students off economics for life unless they're from another country and think that all these graphs are quite easy and that they should go-on to a second degree and maybe a teaching job at another university. This is how one generation of economists spawns the next. For UK students, this is emotionally stimulating but in a bad way: the subject of IS-LM is very very close to what has wrecked bit of the economy, but the presentation doesn't quite bother to touch on that much or bother to refer to evidence. Searching for "Mundell Fleming open economy" I found an important point mentioned in passing right at the bottom of a page. <a href="http://www.grips.ac.jp/teacher/oono/hp/lecture_F/lec08.htm">http://www.grips.ac.jp/teacher/oono/hp/lecture_F/lec08.htm</a> <i>"As an appendix to the Mundell-Fleming model, we would like to discuss the Dutch disease."</i>. Applied to the UK, just after Holland, the page quotes a graph headed <i>"UK Experiences De-industrialization as Oil Production Begins"</i> <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3Es3G68cO8XP439eDeQCgP_2AxMrpK1zUWtCq5ilG8AeomChHfKTV3TmPH6BlZY_szYXif-UahT8ubmREcQMgdumgo98GGfOGGKA8-fYa33b7iStaGwpWAdndxHFrDC3sSOAWL0eKcMJq/s1600/lec08_7uk%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Source: F.L & L.A. Rivera-Batiz, International Finance and Open Economy Macroeconomics (Optional Textbook), 2nd ed., 1994, p.357. The left scale for manufacturing share and the right scale for oil & gas share in GDP." border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3Es3G68cO8XP439eDeQCgP_2AxMrpK1zUWtCq5ilG8AeomChHfKTV3TmPH6BlZY_szYXif-UahT8ubmREcQMgdumgo98GGfOGGKA8-fYa33b7iStaGwpWAdndxHFrDC3sSOAWL0eKcMJq/s1600/lec08_7uk%255B1%255D.jpg" title="" /></a></div>
I can't quite read what the axis on the left says, but at least it is a real measurement of something with numbers, and the graph suggests a process by which a high exchange rate caused by one industry, such as North Sea oil, could put other industries like manufacuring out of business. The graph is from a 1990s textbook citing a 1984 journal artical - Corden, Max, "<a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2662669">Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics</a>,"<i>Oxford Economic Papers</i> 36, 1984, pp. 359-380 (http://www.jstor.org/stable/2662669) The UK suffered something similar but made deliberately worse by a government economic policy. That's why there were 20,000 job-losses a week alongside a monetary policy that ran up until 2009. If the course had started with the cases of Holland and the UK, and worked backwards towards specific cases of macro-economic theory, then it would have been an interesting course. Any statistics skills required would obviously have been worth learning, and the maths teacher would have become the cool person - able to explain things to an interested set of students. I may be exaggerating because life isn't often like that when teaching a technical subject, but things could have been better. Except the economy which gets no better for talking about it, but even to understand the economy makes it easier to make sense of life lived in it.</blockquote>
I see one of the Keele economics courses is described on one of the course-choosing web sites with a note: <i>"not required - critical thinking"</i>, and a suggestion that it should be studied with something similar, just to reduce the chance of critical thinking even further. This is a bit like running a medical course with <i>"not required - desire to improve health"</i> on the prospectus. In the 1980s, students could see out of the coach window that factories were closing very quickly and that study of chi-squared in year two was not the answer, nor even the subject they believed they had signed-up to study. This problem of mis-sold economics courses remains at other institutions. Even if a student - maybe an overseas student - seldom left the campus or watched TV and didn't question the course, that same student would have noticed computers. In my final year, the teacher said <i>"this is the first time someone's handed-in an essay done on a word processor"</i>. He said it to a student who looked like someone from a country with less of a recession. That student would have noticed the average and variance functions on the free spreadsheet that came on the disc. I suppose a few people find maths relaxing or illuminating. For everyone else, it is something like learning to drive that is only stimulating if you want to drive somewhere. When driving smewhere, it can also be relaxing or illumnating for some people and not for others, but it isn't something to do just for fun with no other excuse. Lots of people think that algebra on the blackboard is necessary in order to understand common shapes that data forms itself into, and to try and learn something from the measured tables of data at the office of national statistics. Statistics has its own teaching conventions like Victorian science teaching. Victorian science seems to have been invented to halt the industrial revolution of self-taught scientists and put them in their place. It is also cheap to teach. Teaching is like an episode of Tom & Gerry: some fictional object called "Tom" or "Gerry" or some other Greek letter gets decimated or squared or gutted and chased around the white-board with an impressive array of shorthand, in order to prove a tautology: top-left of the board equals bottom-right, and this is called "deriving". Rather like the statement in the London School of Economics Prospectus - "<i>All of the programmes ... take a mathematically rigorous approach to the subject, and are therefore very demanding of quantitative and analytical ability and interest"</i> - something is put in one way, therefore it can be put in another way with a grand <i>"therefore"</i> in the middle. <i>Bla therefore bla.</i> This kind of training encourages pointless statements from professors like <i>"Economics is..."</i> when everybody knows that economics is just a course title of no more use than Geography or any other course unless it solves some problem. What simple thing the algebraic shorthand describes is not clear, and it if a complex thing, then it would be better taught with an example. The teacher is usually someone who has done a lot of this as a maths student, but attempts to remove the most complicated algebra when teaching to non-mathematicians. However much shorthand algebra can be taken-away, alternatives are not added-in. The reason for a shape is not added-in. In contrast, when I learned Nuffield Physics A-level, I learned from observation. We dangled weights on springs, observed some things about wave motion, learned from a teacher that it's the same with capacitors and microwaves and probably other things and tested the theory, then we did nuclear physics. For schools not equipped for direct nuclear experiments, the Nuffield Foundation can supply specially-made polestyrene ping-pong balls that are the right size to behave like an atom if glued together and used to bounce microwaves. By the end of the course we were able to answer questions about atoms, waves, electricity cables designed for tensile strength and conductivity - I am sure there were a lot of things we could do. If we had learned physics by deriving one formula from another, we would just about have discovered which way apples fall-off trees by the end of the course, and so it is with economics when taught by deriving formulas. We didn't have to do it directly at Keele, but had to get the gist and there was a special concise textbook, based on derived formulas, prescribed for background reading. If the subject is rather political and attracts good points of view on both sides, like the subject of cheap public loans crowding-out the private sector, then the teaching does not give contexts. Something might make perfect sense in one place and have obvious faults in another. If the subject is entirely technical - like the squaring or data before averaging and taking a square root, or the reason that wave energy reduces from the point of splash, then there are still problems.</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>The teaching convention does not emphasise why one classic curve or distribution is different to another, which is the most easy and important thing to grasp and remember.<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>The teaching not say why one ratio happens and not another. It just says: "this is the algebra".<br />
</li>
</ul>
If the subject is some messy mixture of technical shapes and wild guesses as to their reasons, then we get no further. Pareto distribions, I read on an open courseware web page from MIT, are rather like the back end of a tall dinosoar while it is standing-up: quite a steep slide-down from horizontal, down the tail to near-vertical. People who have done Nuffield science subjects or arts subjects are just bemused and apalled. When this harmless hobby is repeated a lot, they get to distrust it as much as traditional science subjects. The thrill is meant to be in the chase I suppose, which is called formal proof. Apparently you can even prove "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_equilibrium">equilibrium</a>", but that's for the maths junkies. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/10/fixation-maths-doesnt-add-up-targets">Simon Jenkins in The Guardian</a> makes a similar point. Looking at <a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/teaching/Interactive%20Tutorials/Statistics%20for%20Economists">Statistics for Economists</a> on economics network, I see that other people draw some distinction between applied stats and theoretical stats. I suppose, if I understood stats better and was teaching this, I would twiddle these categories, trying to help students discover or realise the reasons for doing something a certain way in order that they remember it. Explanations that help a student remember are as useful as "applied" stats; explanations that show-off algebra but distract from the principal of the thing are worse than useless. It's hard to distinguish between pure and applied stats but some perfect teacher somwhere can do it. (I suspect that some ticky-tacky stats techniques developed to suit previous generations of calculator, or are there to show-off, or as an excuse practice mundane book-keeping jobs that no longer exist so much.) About the same time that students learn a technique or soon after, I would get students to use it on cheap software or slide rules and real figures to discover something real. It's slightly tricky to comment in ignorance. I know from studying Nuffield Physics A level that a lot of the work of traditional science teaching is just bad teaching in the wrong order with too many irrelevant bits. (Traditional physics A-levels of the 1980s gave points for knowing that the x & y axis are called the abscissa & ordinate, which they are not; it taught that things happened because of laws discovered by geniuses, which they don't). I know that I'm ignorant about why data forms into different splodge-shapes and <a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/statistics">have no idea what the diagrams on this page represent</a>, so this paragraph is a bit of special knowledge and a bit of ignorance next to each other. When I studied, stats exercises did not use real and interesting figures. Those were reserved for experts who published journal articles which might be quoted in the textbook if they were sufficiently untrue. In the same book, X-shaped graphs are printed as models for something like the labour market that isn't X-shaped at all. The textbook looks so obviously wrong that it's hard to know whether anything about the course is right. It's taught in a deliberately unreal way, to emphasise that the subject is a <i>"model",</i> and not another model nor what really happens. Aggregate supply and demand in an area like the UK is called <i>"The AD AS model"</i>, but that makes the concepts slower to learn and leaves less time to admit their limits. Take marginal costs for micro-economics courses. The subject is obvious in basic form and simply wrong when developed to complex forms without an example. Here is an example. You want to buy groceries. If you want to buy a lot of groceries, a difference in price can support the fixed cost of a longer trip, or maybe a supermarket can offer free delivery. You know this already, don't you? Most people have known this stuff forever, but economists like only discovered in the late nineteenth century and called it <i>"the marginal revolution"</i>. Maybe a nineteenth century economist asked his wife. Here is a course specification - I forget which one: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>At its core the discipline embraces a rich theoretical framework but also makes extensive use of empirical techniques and analysis that find application in a wide-range of practical real world problems and policy-related issues</i></blockquote>
This is different ot Nuffield Physics, or to English, or to Politics, or any subject in which you work more of the obvious stuff out yourself. As I read about university economics teaching, I see the different idea that theory is derived rather than measured, and that macro-economic theory derives from micro-economic theory. You can see a bit of this-and-that theory on the cover. It may be easier to make a bit of this and that than entirely this or entirely that. Or not. The geometry has no further meaning. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>stimulate students intellectually through the study of economics and to lead them to appreciate its application to a range of problems and its relevance in a variety of contexts - Quality Assurance Agency <span style="color: black;">benchmark</span></i></span></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsaTxyaYzzGvEMomu6-d7tnA7oO0PIwXkQPZHlr1gykPSGRV4GQmOJRLyfYpr4BfujMBY6oHrFZ5O3vkdTALHOL-Dxu3GRhRrMXrhIW7Ge_MOkgs-0DbEWHZWyTFgQ1QKEND5Y3yNLPeiH/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhsaTxyaYzzGvEMomu6-d7tnA7oO0PIwXkQPZHlr1gykPSGRV4GQmOJRLyfYpr4BfujMBY6oHrFZ5O3vkdTALHOL-Dxu3GRhRrMXrhIW7Ge_MOkgs-0DbEWHZWyTFgQ1QKEND5Y3yNLPeiH/s320/temp.jpg" width="203" /></a></div>
I remember the chief using work-book examples with multiple-choice solutions for teaching basic micro economic theory from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Laidler">Laidler</a>'s book. It would have been neater and easier to relate the teaching to a recommended book, but the course didn't work like that. The examples were a personal collection of exercises and answers, collected over a career - specially at the start of the career when he taught 17 year-olds who did not want to leave Idaho. An example was from the Food and Drug Administration about how much feed to give to chickens. If you try to think how you can most offend and patronise people who signed-up for a degree course during an economic crisis, you might guess what a these events were like. Then Fishman had a joke which I quite like: he'd stop talking mid-sentence and say <i>"it's five a clock so we'll pick this up again next week"</i>. That's why I remember the chicken example. He was half way through that one when he did his five-o-clock joke. The workbook examples were not like <a href="http://www.channel4.com/info/press/programme-information/the-catch">The Catch</a>, which I guess is used by open university and interesting in themselves. The accounts of real companies could be a more interesting knowledge-check for a slightly longer face-to-face course. Maybe speakers from local firms would come-in for £200 expenses and explain how the theory applied to their particular case, if at all, or invite business studies students to paw-over the numbers and ask questions before giving a lecture in how fact and theory seem to fit. Since writing that I see that <a href="https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/showcase/pezzino_guestlectures">someone has tried something similar</a>, using the few people in the world who's job title is "economist" but who are not teachers. That is a bit like trying to find a geographer out of captivity, but she had a go. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150209133558/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302106/A_level_economics_subject_content.pdf">Microeconomics is also taught at A-level</a>, so I don't know why we had to do the basics again or whether there is any useful micro-economics. By year three I had studied economics for five years, but was still confronted with a man ignorant of the economy outside and too goofy to run a tutorial, rehearsing multiple-choice questions about the X-shaped diagram. It gets harder to learn and easier to forget each time the basics are taught, because they become more and more boring. I remember the work-book examples were so boring that it was hard to get them right and concentrate on them, rather than be distracted by the situation. It's like trying to concentrate while someone is throwing custard at you. Another intellectual stimulation was the layout of the class rooms. As in a school class room, the teachers desk would often be different to the others. One had a phone extension on it. What for? I wondered if it was for the evacuation call: <i>"American economic policies have failed. The last helicopter leaves the embassy in 48 hours".</i> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Fishman took a phone call from his boss during a class </span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;">He didn't finish the phone call quickly or explain to students why he had took it. He began modestly with a nervous smile: <i>"Now I have to take this call"</i>. I only remember it happening once, but there was nothing urgent; no emergency. The internal call would have come to a landline extension that flashed on the desk, put-through by the department secretary. It would have been from someone further-up the chain of funding or management. There was a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fender">new vice chancellor</a> in 1985, apparently, the worst ever, who liked doing things like phoning peole while they were teaching.</span></h4>
Why would someone leave instructions that they can take a call while teaching? It says something about large organisations that the manager or the funder is more important than the student or the prospective student or the non-student who is still paying for the thing through taxes, and that was the system at Keele. Similar to the system of Housing Associations and the former Housing Corporation, or employment schemes at the time and a thing called the Manpower Services Commission, or councils and the Department for Communities and Local Government, or universities and the Universities Funding Council. It's a big part of the economy that economic texbooks say nothing about, and gradually comes to light from experience of over-heard phone calls. Each public-funded organisation has a group of Machiavellis who deal with the funding body, and each funding body has another group who fund them. Leftovers go to the public in the form of unwanted services. If I were to write an economics text book, it would say that people tolerate high taxes in hope of insurance-like services, simply delivered at the right place and time. Then, people on very high salaries divert the money in a form of theft, in order to pay for complicated services that are not needed like a course in Games Theory or a Faith School or an anglo-chinese business office. The Begg textbook does hint at the system. It says that there is a thing called a "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_good">merit good</a>", meaning any whim of a machiavelli on a high salary, and we all have to pay for it. Fishman's phone call to his new boss was a "merit good". There is a history of Keele University that maps-out the too-and-fro between a funding body and universities, taking-up hundreds of thousands of pounds-worth of time and patience, all intended to direct hundreds of thousands of pounds to the right place. It makes the textbook diagram of a "command economy" versus a "free market economy" look half-sane, even it is propaganda against social insurance systems. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><DIGRESSION ABOUT SUBJECT MIXING></span> The phone call included nothing about subject-mixing, nor the rest of experience of how Keele worked. The English lecture course included a bit about a philosopher, which I forget but it was something like John Stewart Mill, or what sort of people like him were writing books at the time, and what sort of books he wrote. Whatever an Eng. Lit teacher could find to say about a book. They are good at finding things to say about a book; it's what they do in years one and two. I don't remember many other shared lectures like that. I don't remember an English lecture about Paul Samuelson's book, what kind of rules seem to apply to what he could put in it, why a rival book had just been boycotted when his came-out, or any of the others like Keynes. One of the wierd things about it is the history and habits of teaching alongside, in which a teacher can say "we used to believe..." of invisible colleagues, and these invisible colleagues are the ones that take common ideas and write them up in <i>Econometrica</i> or some journal like that, and so me them true <i>"In economics".</i> For example I read somewhere that <i>"Autism has a different meaning in Economics".</i> Daft, but the idea that a teacher can say <i>"we"</i> or <i>"in economics"</i> was probably common and Fishman did the first. So the college claimed to be good at subject-mixing, but it could have been a lot better. <span style="color: red;"></DIGRESSION ABOUT SUBJECT MIXING></span></blockquote>
In 1986 the college opted to remain independent, rather than merge with the nearest college for the same age-group and hope to reduce mangement costs. The decision-makers would have justified this to themselves and anyone who asked by saying that the campus experience and subject-mixing system were unique. They would talk like the blurb from a book about Keele that somebody wrote, which lists some rather nice and wonderful ideas. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<i>...struggle to establish the Keele Experiment, based on his "Keele idea". He traces the succession of principals, the establishment of Keele as a university in 1962, the unrest of the late-1960s and the very difficult years of the government cuts in the 1980s. Keele suffered worst than most... - blurb from Keele, Portrate of a University</i></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What did Fishman's syllabus teach?</span> </h4>
My training in the best role for the public sector is the essay on the <i>"public good"</i>, like a road or a lighthouse. Students were referred to Samuelson's article - probably <i>"The Pure Theory of Public Expenditure"</i>, published in 1955 and now <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/192589">available free on Jstor</a>. The article begins with a lie: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"(1) <i>Assumptions</i>. Except for Sax, Wixell, Lindall, Musgrove and Bowen, economists have rather neglected the theory of optimal public expenditure, spending most of their energy on the theory of taxation...."</blockquote>
<br />
What <i>"The Pure Theory of Government Expenditure"</i> doesn't tell you much about is government expenditure. It tells you that this kind of thing is highly technical and that a system exists for experts to discuss obtuse detail that the general reader will not understand.<br />
<br />
A kind of closed-shop in which only the published views of some right-wing americans in certain journals count as economics. The system to excludes better-known ideas. The article ignores the authors of the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_Law_Amendment_Act_1834">Poor Law Amendment Act</a>, for example, who favoured workhouses, or whoever worked-out the theory for Bismark's 1860s national insurance system or Lloyd George's one that started in 1911, followed by William Beveridge with his "<a href="http://www.sochealth.co.uk/national-health-service/public-health-and-wellbeing/beveridge-report/">Social Insurance and Allied Services</a>" report in the 1940s. These are compulsory systems over a wide area - national systems - and often run by the public sector. The site https://www.issa.int/en_GB/country-profiles notes a few facts about each of them like start date or pension age. The UK entry is a bit misleading because so much is funded from general taxation, but there is a note for each country. In the USA they had a social security tax introduced in the 1940s - it even gets a mention in the 1947 version of Samuelson's textbook but it's ruled-out of what <i>"economists"</i> officially know. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"Therefore, I explicitly assume two categories of goods: ordinary <i>private consumption goods</i> ....which can be parcelled-out among different individuals, and <i>collective consumption goods</i> which all [individuals] enjoy in common in the sense that each individual's consumption of such a good leads to no subtraction of any other individual's consumption" [chintzy algebra over a few pages omitted][ends].</blockquote>
Googling the phrase "Sax, Wixell, Lindall, Musgrove and Bowen", I see that people still take this seriously and write learned articles as though they hadn't heard of social insurance. What else do they pretend not to have heard about? Maybe one day someone will write an article about <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="shoes boots and belts, mainly made in UK working conditions">shoes</a> in <i>Econometrica</i>, and then be quoted as the person who <i>"in economics"</i> invented shoes. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">algebra as a defence</span> </h4>
Samuelson's <i>"Public Good"</i> article soon dives into are two or three pages of chintzy algebraic shorthand, which I doubt many people have ever read but serve to fend-off criticism from outside the inner circle of algebra experts and journal editors. I had a skim-read and saw some kind of academic's attempt at a joke about <i>"Swedish bureaucrats"</i> towards the end, so Samuelson must have assumed that only his colleagues would read that far and that he could put-in a barbed comment about the Swedish government introducing a welfare state. When a squid defends itself, it squirts ink. When a historian defends itself, it squirts footnotes to sources. When an economist is scared, it squirts algebra. That's all it the algebra means. Some of the nicer ones, like Fishman, did not squirt enough algebra to avoid cold war pressures towards unfair dismissal or summonses to senate hearings. He emigrated to the UK. Others economists like Samuelson survived the various red scares and CIA work to unseat any possible communist sympathiser in federal employment or universities up till 1971. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">herds as a defence</span> </h4>
Another odd thing about cold-war economists, other than the fake algebra, is the pretence at a scientific community who have a consensus view. Samuelson states his idea in one paragraph and uses the same paragraph to imply that he or the readers know who is a licenced official cold-war economist, usually including his friend Mr Arrow from the algebra club, but not including Mr Beveredge, Mr Lloyd George, Mr Bismark, or the Poor Law Amendment Act people like Mr Chadwick who were well-read in the ideas of Mr Adam Smith, Mr Malthus and Mr Ricardo. When grazing animals defend themselves, they form into a herd and run. Economists do this too. Right at the top of this blog post is a quote from my professor Les Fishman saying <i>"we used to believe in keynsian solutions; now we believe in monetarist solutions"</i>. As someone who theorised about trades unions, he'd know the system. The more convincingly you say <i>"we"</i> the harder you are to single-out. The herd-like defence requires a pretense that the most quoted economists are worth quoting, which they're not, but it's part of the pretense that the subject is a hard science. The pretense also allows teachers to distance themselves from students, at one end of the room. Maybe face-to-face contact is between a graduate student helping undergraduates understand lectures and to revise them as a temping job to help fund the course. Maybe the professor doesn't have to do a single thing that could possibly cause trouble with the authorities. In Fishman's case, he said <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree".</i> In Samuelson's case, it was a bit easier. He simply wrote a textbook that funders and critics would accept, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_Revolution#Textbooks">after they had boycotted a previous one</a> by another author, who's book went out of print and who decided to teach in Canada rather than the cold-war USA. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Merit goods as a compromise with what economists in the US say</span> </h4>
The Begg textbook is an odd thing promises to add a range of new theories to teaching, and it picks-up an oddball bunch along with the classic bad ideas. It embelishes the hard idea of a <i>"Public Good"</i> with a thing called a <i>"<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Musgrave_%28economist%29">Merit Good</a>"</i>, like the Barnett Formula, Concord, Embassies, EU subscriptions, Iraq War, Latin, London Fashion Week, Nuclear Power, Opera, Olympics, Pagentry, RAF Fly-Pasts, State Visits, or Trident. Merit goods can exist separately or in combination. There is a touch of James Bond about a lot of them. The list emerges by tacit consent of the political establishment decade-by-decade, and are funded by blurring the distinction between an insurance-like role of government, in which there ought to be something like a National Insurance Fund to pay for it, and a Father Christmas role in which the budgets are given-out to the children at the end of the year by a chancellor Father Christmas. In this system, there is always money for Merit Goods; Father Christmas simply gives a bit less to the other children. It is hard to imagine that someone so stupid as to think opera a fit purpose for taxpayers' money could exist or be thought fit for any other. Royal Opera House themselves have found this problem with their trustees; they had trouble after this one was on the board. Nevertheless, he was seen as a safe person to be Chancellor of Keele University and allowed to ring members of staff while they were teaching. If I had written <i>"Public Goods in Paul Samuelson's article are a way of avoiding the issues that college funders in the US do not want to talk about like Roosevelt's Social Security tax. Opera is also a Public Good because opera grandees are safe pairs of hands for other public employment"</i>, then my essay would be marked wrong. The call finished-off with a chat about money. The boss asked an opinion. Fishman thought that generations of staff had provided <i>"a little bit extra"</i> service year-after-year, starting at an un-defined date, then he repeated the point, <i>"and a little bit extra"</i>, and that all these small services had added-up in cost. He proposed removing all those <i>"little bits extra"</i>. He did not propose cutting central services; conversations between bosses and teachers do not go like that; the funding cheque went to the boss and money filtered <b><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="font-size: small;">assessment <span face="">&</span> feedback</span></span></span>;</b> of <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><b><span style="font-size: small;">academic support</span></b></span></span> such as a tutorial system (I don't really know what "support" means but it's in the standard jargon), reasonable expectations of <span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><b><span style="font-size: small;">organisation <span face="">&</span> management</span></b></span></span> like the two optional courses both happening, or <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><b><span style="font-size: small;">equipment</span></b></span></span> like access to computers in the library. If the course is partly taken for career reasons and there is mass unemployment, then some <b><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="font-size: small;">career</span></span></span></b> advantage to graduates would be good. If a course <span face="" style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #990000;"><b>content</b></span></span> is based on true facts and plausible theories, I think that's reasonable to expect as well. This is another <i>"little bit extra"</i> - a problem-solving course that did not run in 1986. <br />
<blockquote>
<i>a second year course on what I called “Social Economics”, using a demographic foundation to develop arguments about the economics of healthcare, education, welfare, housing, poverty and social insurance. The last thing second year students wanted to hear about then was the problem of pension provision with an unpredictably ageing population; here for the first time, in the actual uncertainties of demographic projections, I found something actually worth trying to model. - <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">Tribe</a></i></blockquote>
Once our speeded-up version of A-level economics was over, we tried a new part specially for undergraduates called an ISLM model, which is how to rigg a model sailing ship by moving-around various ropes in diagrams that have nothing to do with un-competitive factories, the exchange rate, how to change either. Nor dumping. I expect the "S" stands for sailing ship. Dr Johns taught this stuff and noted my attitude. If he had taught an open economy version of the model, which noticed exchange rates, I would have remembered, but I remember only frustration. I learned this stuff to remember for a few months during exam season before forgetting it again, and even that task was hard because the main course textbook, by 1984, had noticed faults in the model and said that the monetary policy side of it could no longer be taught in a textbook way. Talking of facts, some <b>real data</b> used for stats examples would be good. Some way that students can learn from each other or be a <span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><b><span style="font-size: small;">learning community</span></b></span></span> in the jargon would be good, and a system of <span style="color: #990000; font-size: small;"><span face=""><b>feedback from students</b></span></span> so that college managers know the course is OK instead of ringing-up half way through a class to ask teachers' views. In those days the phrase was "merchantable quality"; nowadays it's "customers reasonable expectations". Generally, the list of reasonable expectations did not happen. Fishman argued for providing a substandard service for a standard price to make a bigger margin. A bit like an NHS dentist taking a phone call about how to do extra bad fillings to make more money off the standard payment. Students were not included in the conversation. We were like patients sitting in the dentist's chair. It would have happened in 1985, 1986, or 1987 and if anyone else remembers it I hope they leave a comment below. My dad once sold ad-space for <i>The Times</i> & <i>The Observer</i>, and kept-up a subscription for ever, even when Murdoch made <i>The Times</i> more Thatcherite in the 80s. I remember reading <i>Times</i> obituaries about people like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Moser,_Baron_Moser">the grandee who might have phoned</a> - or Fishman - and reading about a different world. Some were awarded medals for the bravery of their troops carrying-out their stupid decisions. The obituary would go like this. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Captain 'Jock' as he was known, returned to civilian life at a time of high unemployment, Sir Jock was miraculously offered a job at X where he quickly rose to be Chief, a position he was to hold for 22 years during the decline failure and collapse of X in 1984 leaving fewer job prospects for the next generation. His hobbies were syphoning money out of X for his childrens' 10 year boarding school fees, and cricket. He is survived by a <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/viscountess-whitelaw-wife-of-tory-grandee-6804669.html">surprisingly patient wife</a>."</i></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I suppose it was the same after the first world war as well. The UK has had a lot of Captain Jocks, many of them colonial governors, cabinet ministers like the ministers of education who cut Keele's grant by a third and various and grandees, but people of all kinds were locked into narrow claustrophic lives and became cartoon conformists as a way of overcoming anxiety. The comedian <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cook">Peter Cook</a> told someone that he had become <i>"a series of funny voices"</i>, and, listening to the news, it was easy to assume that of people on podiums or interviewed by surprise in the street. That's how Peter Cook could get attention and make a living by doing it for a laugh. The funny voice started, and the standard ideas came to mind in support to say the sort of things that funny voice usually said.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
I wondered about Fishman's sense of hierarchy and tried to guess where it came from. He looked like what he was - a glove puppet for conventional wisdom. So where did conventional wisdom about how to teach economics come from? </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Starting when the subject starts</span> </h4>
<i>"Les"</i>, as the obituary calls him, started teaching economics when I guess it was a trendy technical subject to incorporate the quaint little old subject of <i>"business administration"</i> that he qualified in, or <i>"home economics"</i> for the girls who chose not to learn shorthand and touch typing, or nursing, or go to finishing school. At the time Fishman studied economics, members of the trade were known. Their names were as clear as names of qualified doctors; some of their job movements and qualifications or deaths were stated in the peer-reviewed journals. In the same journals, algebra's explanations of equilibrium are accepted as like medical explanations of the human body. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">American academics are always right</span> </h4>
I think that US teachers grade students in competition with other students, and so a hierarchy builds-up with the teacher at the top and student capacity to spout conventional wisdom used as a way of ordering the ranks further-down. It's a very bad system. It suggests that someone in their late teens or early twenties, studying voluntarily, is not capable of having ideas or discussing things and should work as an academic and on an MA course before being allowed free thought. (For example Keele Economics Department in the twenty-teens decided to give-out some book tokens to the best-graded students for a photo-opportunity. A couple of students had other urgent engagements. I think you would, if someone offered you a book token for doing something intellectual in a way to score the most points. It's like taking a bribe.) Add to that a failure of US universities to provide many discussions with tutors, and you grand lecturers who are like hospital consultants without patients or politicians without constituents; there is nobody to bring them down to earth. The likes of Alan Walters and Milton Friedman give opinions to the world that wouldn't even convince their own students. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>The writer of a book such as this, treading along unfamiliar paths, is extremely dependent on criticism and conversation if he is to avoid an undue proportion of mistakes. It is astonishing what foolish things one can temporarily believe if one thinks too long alone, particularly in economics (along with the other moral sciences), where it is often impossible to bring one's ideas to a conclusive test either formal or experimental - <a href="http://the%20writer%20of%20a%20book%20such%20as%20this%2C%20treading%20al%20ong%20unfamiliar%20paths%2C%20is%20extremely%20dependent%20%20on%20criticism%20and%20conversation%20if%20he%20is%20to%20%20avoid%20an%20undue%20proportion%20of%20mistakes.%20it%20is%20%20astonishing%20what%20foolish%20things%20one%20can%20tem%20porarily%20believe%20if%20one%20thinks%20too%20long%20alone%2C%20%20particularly%20in%20economics%20%28al%20ong%20with%20the%20other%20moral%20scie%20nces%29%2C%20where%20it%20is%20often%20%20impossible%20to%20bring%20one%27s%20ideas%20to%20a%20conclusive%20test%20either%20formal%20or%20experimental/">J M Keynes, preface to the General Theory</a></i></blockquote>
The same institutions with grand professors and no common sense can look confusing to outsiders, looking for a new idea like the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto">Soharto</a> dictatorship in Indonesia, the Pinochet regime in Chile and the Thatcher regime in London. They see speeches from US professors in vivid, memorable language. That's because the professor doesn't meet students face to face and gets no chance reason with other people in reasonable language; their job is to give a memorable lecture and guides are written for them to give contrasts and simple points and images. Milton Friedman had some point about tobacco farming was once being subsidised and how the streets came to be covered in unwanted tobacco plants - a great image but I forget completely what point he was making. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Noaa-walrus22.jpg/220px-Noaa-walrus22.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Picture of a walrus to illustrate walrasian equilibrium" border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Noaa-walrus22.jpg/220px-Noaa-walrus22.jpg" title="" /></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalism#The_Marginal_Revolution">Walrasian equilibrium</a> </h4>
There is another source of authority. The one called <i>"conclusive test ... formal "</i>, which just means that something agrees with itself; it is self referential. Smug. Students already know, because the teacher's tone of voice and expressions on other students faces shows that it's self-referential, but the thing is sometimes proved demonstrated with demonstrations of shorthand algebra. Economics students on the longer courses go through a sort of basic training in which they pretend to get a glimpse of <i>"equilibrium"</i> from mathematics. It concludes the course in economic rules-of-thumb by asking whether all the rules of thumb in the textbook explain enough of any economic problem to be worth using, and if so, whether anyone knows how much. American textbooks talk about Widgets as an example of products, but the British Edition prefers Snooks. Maybe other things to do with the economy in an area - like rent control and its effect on available shops or out of town shopping centres and their effect - are more important. The Begg textbook mentions rent control as something to do with bits of the UK property market in the 1980s, illustrating how different and specific econimic problems are. It also says that the economy is like a water bed, with changes in one bit effecting other bits. I am not cool enough to have ever been on a water bed, so for the rest of us there is the only book ever written and seldom-read about the subject in 1874 by Leon Walrus. Economic equilibrium is something to do with the curves of fond walruses, or the detail of a an-read book from the 1890s by Leon Walras who liked equilibrium. I prefer the first theory. I imagine the nineteenth century Mr Walras and Mrs Walras as two fondly coupled walruses. After nobody bought the book, Mr Walras began to think about practicalities. <i>"Wifey"</i>, said Mr Walras, <i>"What is it that puts food on our table?"</i>. <i>"I will think about it and explain in a day or two"</i>, said Mrs Walras, before asking the other economist's wives in the walrus pack whether she should let-on. I expect some said <i>"be careful: if you tell him how shopping works, he'll only make more algebra.</i>", but Mrs and Mr Walrus were a fond couple and the next day she just told him. She explained that the housekeeping was spent at a shop, and the shopkeeper allowed any goods to be removed over the counter, within the budget contstraint of housekeeping money. Taking a good that is bought most weeks, like an onion, and a kind of average basket of other goods that are bought most week, you avoid complications of quirky preferences and different needs over time. So: do you spend all of your housekeeping on onions? No. As a rule of thumb, you can have too much of a good thing. You spend some of the housekeeping on onions and the rest on the average basket. That's it. It didn't take long to explain, but the sheer frustration of listening to it explained in the style of algebra junkies is enough to make it very difficult to learn, and so the micro-economics lectures take about a year. This is a quote about Samuelson, who wrote the classic textbook <i>"a treatise in mathematical economic theory, patterned after classical thermodynamics, which set the tone for much of what the cleverest mainstream economists would do for decades to come. The protocol became: build a mathematical model of abstract actors engaged in constrained maximisation or minimisation of an objective function; prove that the model has a stable equilibrium; show how the model’s equilibrium conditions change when its parameters are changed".</i> That's even more of a waste of time than I guessed as an economics student. One real effect of chasing equilibrium is that economists feel the need to build-up to it from micro-economics as a compulsory long foundation to the course like army basic training. It isn't an optional part of the course, nor a practical course with a context; it is a course in fairly simple graphs and rules of thumb, but rather too many of them for many people to want to study in go. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Ignorance of the UK economy</span> </h4>
Maybe Fishman's sense of hierarchy came ignorance of how macro-economics describes, in part, an insurance-like service provided by European states. It must have matched an ignorance at Keele in 1970 about how ignorant US economists are. <a href="http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/wstate.htm#top" id="top" name="top">"The idea of the "welfare state" means different things in different countries. [...]</a><a href="http://www.spicker.uk/social-policy/wstate.htm#top">Some commentators use [state welfare] to mean nothing more than "welfare provided by the state". This is the main use in the USA</a>. Fishman once professed that <i>"welfare"</i> was less important than <i>"defence"</i> in a monologue out of nowhere, using the term in that american sense that would make him an administrator of a generous government scheme paid-for out of the current account. His ignorance of UK economics was backed-up by his compulsory essay to be headed <i>"what is a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good">public good</a>?"</i>, which quotes Paul Samuelson's way of avoiding talking about a welfare state because the man knew that his textbooks would not be published if he mentioned national insurance or any insurance-like services provided by the state over a time. Paul Samuelson knew that textbook buyers had rejected his rival's book because it scared them. He knew that texbook buyers and their bosses considered state spending to take place within a financial year, with no concept like a national insurance fund. These textbook buyers consider <i>"welfare"</i> to be a transfer payment by all taxpayers and specially the very rich, towards other taxpayers and specially the very poor who pay next to no income tax. These textbook buyers do not like the idea of middling-income people using the state as a cheap insurance company; these texbook buyers are a bit wierd that way. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Input Funding</span> </h4>
The system of university funding at the time was rather like a donation of aid from ministries back to taxpayers. Instead of <a for="" href="https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-international-development" title="The">Dfid.gov.uk</a> they had a funding body called The Higher Education Funding Council. Most of the money was paid by grants to institutions to keep them going, on condition that they looked busy doing the right thing (a <i>"merit good"</i> according to the textbook). I used to picture it as an amount of money poured-in through the chimneys at the top of the old college building, in hope that enough of it would filter down to the students and staff at the bottom. The textbook describes overseas aid in much the same way, talking about leaky buckets rather than chimneys, but I expect they work the same way. The layout of buildings at Keele, between a motorway and a bus stop, does suggest that they were dropped from a Chinook on a cancelled export order, but that's not true. It is Coleraine University buildings that were designed for a cancelled export order, and they were built on-site, not dropped from a plane. Maybe the money came as a giro cheque after filling-in a claim form for <i>"Vice Chancellors' Benefit"</i> at a jobcentre. The vice chancellor has to fill-in a long form, like a tax or benefit form, with awkward questions about how many students and what spend and difficult stuff like that, which justifies high pay in officials but doesn't justify high pay in housing benefit claimants or taxpayers. I don't know the reason for that but apparantly the filling-in of a long form is high-paid work if you are a vice chancellor and not if you are a tax payer or benefits claimant. The person who cashes the benefit cheque (vice chancellor - not housing benefit of job seekers' allowance) awards themselves nearly ten average wages, then passes-on the rest to the director of final salaries who claims about five average wages, and so the money trickles-down. There's meant to be a trickle-down effect in the private sector too, which doesn't work either. (The more modern version is output funding, in which the biggest liar rises to the top of the organisation for making the most exaggerated claims of success to funders. They also use the most crooked techniques to unseat rivals, people who are at the top of the pay scale, people doing jobs that could be filled by friends and family, or just anyone, for the fun of it. Examples are Roper at London Metropolitan University who claimed grants for more students than could be found in practice, and Piercy at Swansea University who was caught fiddling the exam results to make-up for the effects of unfairly dismissing colleagues part-way through students' courses)<span style="color: #351c75;">. My father saw an advert for pension sales staff at Allied Dunbar ex Hambro Life. There was a new pension trade in the 80s made possible by the new right to sign-out of the state earnings-related pension scheme. For sales staff, the deal was to pay for brief training in hard-sell techniques. There was a fee for the training which was usually loaned and sales people were usually the redundant middle-aged of the time. Sales staff were asked to work-through their own address books for sales leads, and given minimum sales targets alongside bills for the training. They were told to present themselves as independent financial advisors, but only to sell this one type of pension. I expect the training warned against mis-selling of pensions. My father paid for the training in cash and I think he made the odd sale by sending out loads of letters to mailing lists under the name "Donald Robertson Pension Services", but he gave the thing up. The rest of the story of 1980s new employers is in Robert Peston economics books; if my dad had stayed in the business, he would now be selling legal help in getting compensation for mis-sold pensions.</span> Input funding can be a good system for delivering something that doesn't change much, because it saves huge cost of running a market and making individual payments (I think insurance brokers earn up to half the first years' premium), so this still could have been a good system with a few checks and balances. The system works best when there is a consensus all-round that a reasonable wage for running the thing and putting-up with all the hassle is about double the average wage, and a reasonable discount for doing a job that loads of good people apply-for is about half the average wage, and the John Lewis Partnership keep extremes between different layers in the hierachy to seven times lowest wage paid for the highest wage. That seems a fair system and a beurocracy run efficiently by such a system can out-do a private sector market. Even if the top jobs attract loads of cliche-driven dragons from The Apprentice or internally-minded people from internal promotion, and the only way to get a half-decent cliche-driven-dragon is to pay more. I think that describing the job well on the advert and making it sane are other ways to attract talant, so it should be possible to run a university with sane bosses and remain in credit at the bank. If the vice chancellor job advert said "sane person to cope with hassle and do nothing where nothing needs to be done", it might get more applicants than an ad saying "Insane person wanted for world domination, starting with Keele University and its Internationalisation Agenda". That is an example of a bad job ad. I know from my Begg "Economics, British Edition" textbook that supply of economics courses had been close to demand in the 70s; the book quotes a very low minimum A-level grade to get a place in its digression about degree courses. A-levels were a lot harder to pass before Google, but the minimum is for two A-levels, not three, which still seems low. In 1983-4, it was harder to get a place. The same texbook mentions that people do degrees in recessions while they wait for the economy to recover and provide a job. Meanwhile, governent cuts funding. Keele's government funding barely filled the buildings in the 1980s: management insisted that students spend a first year on campus. I heard somewhere that numbers had been halved to the low thousands - maybe 2 or 3,000 students at Keele, so there was no danger of empty spaces. London Metropolitan University has been known to fiddle the figures and write on the grant form that there are more students at their university than really exist. I have no reason to think that this happened at Keele except the strangely distant teaching style in the economics department, which I think has other causes, so I doubt this fiddle happened at Keele as it did at London Metropolitan. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Accountability</span> </h4>
Talking of checks and balances, there was no problem flagged-up by bad student feedback, because there was no system of student feedback in the economics department. No vice chancellor insisted that there was a system of student feedback, nor external examinor, nor whatever system allowed Keele to call itself a University and get grants. If a problem was known to the funders and grandees, it wasn't thought a problem by Keele's grandee figurehead who visited in between visits to the opera and gave Fishman a ring. Nor the people from other economics departments who signed reports that Keele economics was OK, even though the department's main course had no tutorials and no stats software. I suppose their courses in other universities were just as bad. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Fake schools of thought; the double-act</span> </h4>
This fiddles the issue of whether a course includes critical thinking. It presents two points of few and tells you to compare and contrast. It does not allow a student to put a third point of view; it's just a technique. The technique becomes more oppressive when students are steered-away from original sources like Keynes or Marshal. The equivalent in English would be to say that there are Levisite Freudian and Feminist ways to criticise a novel, and no student may criticise any other way. Keele English Department had no such nonsense, and of course worked from original sources, but did mention something in Gulliver's travels that's like economics: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Wikipedia on Gulliver's Travels The novel further describes an intra-Lilliputian quarrel over the practice of breaking eggs. Traditionally, Lilliputians broke boiled eggs on the larger end; a few generations ago, an Emperor of Lilliput, the Present Emperor's great-grandfather, had decreed that all eggs be broken on the smaller end after his son cut himself breaking the egg on the larger end. The differences between Big-Endians (those who broke their eggs at the larger end) and Little-Endians had given rise to "six rebellions... wherein one Emperor lost his life, and another his crown". The Lilliputian religion says an egg should be broken on the convenient end, which is now interpreted by the Lilliputians as the smaller end. The Big-Endians gained favour in Blefuscu.</blockquote>
Apparently the two economists Samuelson and Friedman used both to have columns in the same journal, putting a Keynsian and a Monetarist emphasis on whatever needed to be done that month and I suppose they suggested contrasting jobs for the weekend like planting opposite vegetables or such, but in a punch and judy kind of way with monetarists as the villain. I expect they did lecture tours together. I don't know if they shared motel rooms on those tours. If they did, I expect they had twin beds rather than double beds, because motels in 1950s america could have been strict about that kind of thing. The problem is when these people are expected to step-out of their Punch-and-Judie role and take a balanced decision - specially Mr Punch. This could explain how the Thatcher government got it so wrong by consulting american academics, and thinking that if the Keynsians had been tried they might as well ask some monetarists what to do. In defence of those who consulted Mr Punch about economics, there weren't many rival theories about in the USA; only Big-Endians and Little-Endians were allowed. Keele English department had something a bit like that as well. Jonothan Swift wrote "<a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm">A modest proposal</a>", which is very much like the thoughts of an economist used to play the baddie in fake academic controversies, suddenly asked to address a real problem. Economic solutions are more to do with raising of tax, running of social insurance schemes, and access to workshop space, training, and equipment, I think. If the teaching of economics starts with a problem to solve, there is less chance of getting a comedian in comic role to try to solve it.</fieldset>
<br />
<br />
Where were we?<br />
<br />
<br />
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">Assessment and feedback</span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">5.</span></span><input type="checkbox" /> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""></span>The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance.</span> <span face=""> 6.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">Assessment arrangements <span face="">&</span> marking have been fair</span> <span face="">7.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face=""><span face=""></span>Feedback on my work has been prompt</span> <span face="">8.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""><span face=""></span>I have received detailed comments on my work</span> <span face=""> 9.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand</span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>Students should be assisted and supported in their endeavours to analyse and explore information and to draw appropriate policy conclusions. - Quality Assurance Agency.</i></span></blockquote>
A staff team forced to spend maximum time in front of students and zero time in tutorials would not have a chance to give feedback; their diaries were full. I remember none. Forced to teach a stats comparison on a computer, using <i>"specially written"</i> stats software on a BBC Acorn micro computer, there was nothing to say anyway.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>Opportunities for one-to-one interaction with members of staff, during which students can receive individual help or personalised feedback on their progress, may not always present themselves as</i> <i>...</i></span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><input type="checkbox" /> <i>formal, scheduled sessions.</i></span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><input type="checkbox" /> <i>'Office hours' for example, are a frequent feature, where members of staff are available for one-to-one sessions during set times.</i> </span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><input type="checkbox" /> <i>Interaction via email is another example of one-to-one contact time. It is important that students are able to recognise these as opportunities for interaction with institutional staff.</i></span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><input type="checkbox" /></span> <i><span style="color: #741b47;">When students receive feedback on assessed work, whether one-to-one or in a group setting, this can also be considered to be an important element of contact time which contributes to students' learning but which, again, may not be formally scheduled. - Quality Assurance Agency:</span> <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/contact-hours.pdf">Contact Hours</a></i></blockquote>
I know that I made points about how stupid the worst economic theory was, in the margin of the textbook. I would remember any chance to put these points to teachers, and their replies. I don't remember; there was no chance. The middling economic theory was OK but narrow and dry out of context. I think I got-off lightly compared to students at other colleges, who have to do more algebra, in a trend that has got worse rather than better. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<input type="checkbox" /><span style="color: #741b47;"><i>to develop in students an ability to interpret real world economic events and critically assess a range of types of evidence. - Quality Assurance Agency</i></span></blockquote>
Professor Fishman did not base his lectures on numbers, so there was no way of challenging his statements with figures, just as we were not allowed to talk. He professed a consensus of colleagues, and constructed a comprehension course of textbook concepts with emphasis on McArthy-era journal articles to show we were a serious adult class. The tradition is referred to at the start of the Begg textbook, first edition, where Begg says he will try to put real numbers down the sides of graphs rather than using them as diagrams, and he will quote recent theory where relevant - as he does with fiscal and monetary policy - rather than stick to what's usually taught. Fishman stuck to what was usually taught, from 1950s american journal articles. Concepts such as <i>"a public good"</i> - a theory I remember reading live from some journal article <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/1925895">like this one</a> - or two theories about how to calculate <i>"net present value"</i> versus <i>"internal rate of return"</i> from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Arrow">one</a> or two economist's sums, setting essay questions to show understanding of these journal articles, rather than the broader issues of the size of the public sector or long-term investment. As I write in section ten, below, any original ideas in essays were simply marked wrong. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>... every student is enabled to develop as an independent learner, <span face=""></span></i><i>study their chosen subject(s) in depth and</i></span> <i><span style="color: #741b47;">enhance their capacity for analytical, critical and creative thinking. - Quality Assurance Agency <span style="color: black;">Expectation</span></span> .... <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: #b45f06;">awareness</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">/</span></span> <span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: #38761d;">familiarity</span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><span style="color: black;">with</span></span></span> <span style="color: #741b47;"></span></span></i><span style="color: #741b47;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>the possibility that many economic problems may admit of more than one approach <span style="font-family: inherit;">- Q<span style="font-family: inherit;">uality Assurance Agency <span style="color: black;">b</span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: black;">enchmark</span> for e<span style="font-family: inherit;">conomic degrees</span></span></span></span></i></span></span></blockquote>
Cramming students for an exam has a problem. You can only cram for the lower pass marks; you can't cram for the independent thought that self employed people or employees like the Civil Service graduate appplicants system need. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers operate equitable, valid and reliable processes of assessment, including for the recognition of prior learning, which enable every student to demonstrate the extent to which they have achieved the intended learning outcomes for the credit or qualification being sought. - Quality Assurance Agency</span> Expectation</i></blockquote>
The largest single employer of economics graduates is the Central Statistical Office, through the civil service graduate entry scheme and exam. The point of a graduate entry scheme is to attract people who are different to the internally-promoted, or at least have a good degree. A job like Fishman's first temporary job, at the Aluminium and Magnesium section of a war planning department in Washington, would not have been available to most graduates from Fishman's own course. Fishman's second job was a trade union researcher. By 1988, before open source software was common, social science research jobs required very expensive software experience. The one I wanted to apply for requried <i>"knowledge <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPSS">SPSS</a> softare or similar"</i>. I tried to get a pirate copy off an ex-colleague I hardly knew, but didn't have any luck. Once Fishman professed out of nowhere: <i>"we used to believe on Keynesian solutions but now we believe on Monetarist solutions".</i> There were no other economics teachers in the room: his invisible friends made up a Royal <i>"we"</i>, and shouted an extra meaning which was <i>"don't answer back"</i>; <i>"only ideas from economics journals are allowed - nothing about personal thought and ideas; nothing that helps you get a job either",</i> which is silly. I only discovered later that Fishman's invisible colleagues were probably at McGraw Hill's sales team who sold teaching aids to teachers, like workbooks of multiple choice tests and lecture notes to teach from. I only discovered later that Fishman had thought all-about bluff and rank, which was a subject of one of his favourite authors: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Even to-day there are such things in the usage of the learned community as the cap and gown, matriculation, initiation, and graduation ceremonies, and the conferring of scholastic degrees, dignities, and prerogatives in a way which suggests some sort of a scholarly apostolic succession. - Thorsten Veblen</i></blockquote>
I knew at the time that Fishman was lying about <i>"now we believe"</i>: three hundred and sixty five real economists had written to The Times condemning government economic policy.</div>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">Academic support</span></span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face="">I have... 10<span face="">.</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> received sufficient advice <span face="">&</span> support with my studies. 11.</span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> been able to contact staff when I needed to. 12.</span></span></span><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;">Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices</span></span></span> <b>The first problem was trust.</b> I did not know what to do with an 800-page book that had crosses on it; I didn't know what sort of thing it was or who it was for and am only just-now reading its 34 chaptors, which are surprisingly good in places. University students are usually given original sources to discuss in tutorials, I suppose, except in Economics where we studied what the teachers said, with journal articals with a textbook as backup. The book was treated like Samuelson's 1948 textbook, which is a kind of general introduction to everything economic, but Begg's 1984 textbook is different. It's written by three people - one in the UK and two in the US. It's written for different age groups - some in the UK aged 16 and, some doing degrees from age 18 or more. It was written for at least two different countries with adapted material, so there are more groups than the UK A-level and UK degree readers. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_%28textbook%29#Reception">The largest US market has no national social insurance system, so things like unemployment pay are not much mentioned in the text book, just in case buyers in the USA think it's a book for commies and don't order it, as has happened to other textbooks.</a> Social insurance is the most important thing that UK government does, and reduces a governments' freedom to cut spending because unemployment just puts-up the bill for benefits. It has various advantages over private insurance for simple services that everybody wants and are not means-tested. Even the more complex NHS manages to be a lot cheaper than the US system. I don't remember studying any of this. Lastly, the book was sometimes about an economy with a lot of imports and exports like the UK, but other chapters are about a closed economy, more like the USA where there are a smaller proportion of imports and exports. This is against a background of news reports known to be untrue about how well or badly the economy was working and how the economic policies were meant to work. So students started the course with a distrust of economic opinions, and learned to trust them less along the way I suppose. With hindsight, I should just have read a chaptor a day of the thing until I knew it backwards.</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><b>The normal bit</b></span> The more money the college made from you, the smarter the place to meet. I don't know if staff ratios were the same in each department but have an impression that <a href="http://epigram.org.uk/news/2014/11/its-official-arts-students-pay-for-science-degrees">Eng. Lit is cheap, with one estimate of depatmental costs at Bristol Uni putting it at £3,000 a year per student when the fee was £8,000</a>. About economics. <i> "student staff ratios - from the 1960s to the 1990s the standard ratio in university economics departments was 15:1 the range of courses has been cut, and "small classes" commonly contain 25 or more or more students, rather than 7 or 8" "When I started teaching in the Keele Economics Department in the early 1980s almost half my teaching load was given over to a group of 8 students over the whole year, who attended a two hour problem-solving workshop and one of three tutorial groups of 6 students, besides attending three weekly lectures (at the time all degrees were joint, which had been a Keele innovation). The last time I taught the first year class in 2000, I was allocated the entire year over one semester, divided up into classes of 25 students for one hour a week. The class size had tripled, and the contact time cut to a third" "The transition in schools to "teaching to the test" carried through to universities, students becoming mainly concerned with their grades, and increasingly disengaged from their subject of study." - <a href="https://www.academia.edu/7264841/The_Modern_Economics_Curriculum">Tribe 2014</a></i> People like me on my English course who hadn't done the subject before were chuffed to get a taste of it: it was like a holiday that we could not believe was happening. Someone else in the tutorial group grumbled that she got no personal contact at all - less than at sixth form college - and that the course was the same as A-level, but I did't care. (The tutor said it was because of funding cuts, but colleges weren't very good at giving clear information pre-internet - I discovered the 30% cut later). Somehow, this cut-down subject led to a bit at the end that felt as though we'd done a proper degree and were specialising, even though we'd done all sorts of subjects rather than just English. That's how the system worked when it worked well, for people who hadn't done the same subject at school and had no particular thing that they wanted to get study for. The internal bits of a major course would last about a year with one teacher and one tutorial group, so we'd get to know each other a little by the end. We would talk in tutorials of say six, once a week, in a kind of book club. There would be a reading list, notices on a notice board, and good lectures in a hall somewhere. That was it. Tutorials and a noticeboard, with some lectures and reading lists. We took a subject that other colleges elaborated, and we made it simple. We didn't bother with other peoples' critical theories, which are a load of rubbish a lot of the time, and concentrated on original texts and our own ideas. Where were we? <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face="">I have... 10<span face="">.</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> received sufficient advice <span face="">&</span> support with my studies. 11.</span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> been able to contact staff when I needed to.</span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span face=""><span style="color: black;"> In English, you could talk in a tutorial. I tried talking to a tutor about something I was stuck-on once, and we carried-on down the stairs as we talke, he said <i>"you have a think and I'll have a think"</i>, and then he dived into a staff-only room and that was it</span></span></span></span> <span style="color: black;"></span> 12.</span></span></span><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;">Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices</span></span></span> To complete the list under this <i>"support"</i> heading, students could also walk-in and knock on the secretary's door to hand-in an essay, we could phone for some reason like having to miss an appointment. There were central services like the big library and the Speed Queen launderette, and the <strike>swimming pool</strike>. There was no swimming pool after fundraising to pay for an olympic pool and maybe get on TV did not reach the olympic target. At that point a group were able pack committees and divert the money to a faith group building - the purple thing that looms and that even the ivy boycots - but the good side is that there were no great management costs; decisions were made by cheap committees rather like <i>Porterhouse Blue</i>. The private sector provided a shop and a chip van, and a student union provided strange services like an Off-Campus Flat and and Education and Welfare Officer, unpaid I guess, which I didn't understand or use. There was a small Appointments and Counselling office which, to guess from the name, didn't advise on study choices. <span style="color: red;">Digression comparing Economics to other departments</span> The cheaper the course to the college, the grander the place to meet. English was taught in the old building, with glimpses of a formal garden designed to stop you thinking about the coal mine underneath. Geology, Biology, Electronics and sciences were taught in a kennel by the dustbins. Social sciences were in the middle: a crescent of rooms with plate glass windows and fitted flooring. <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEFvX7qdVvcSPHygr925E9drjFtdi7M_0TyaXnCVvxdn4ECaApDasIMTvlqkY9udR16xHQ6YS47Oalm_hIBYz_GHuPS1aSwIBmA4FFxxnd3ij0RHlB9VoqYX4b24bwHreysTz-t7tBisrX/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEFvX7qdVvcSPHygr925E9drjFtdi7M_0TyaXnCVvxdn4ECaApDasIMTvlqkY9udR16xHQ6YS47Oalm_hIBYz_GHuPS1aSwIBmA4FFxxnd3ij0RHlB9VoqYX4b24bwHreysTz-t7tBisrX/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
There were a lot of social science departments at Keele. I visited a few on short courses but staff were more penned-in. I doubt that the professor of Economics shared a loo with International Relations or Politics. To do so would reveal to the economist that these departments ran maximum-size tutorials of about 12 people while discussing original texts or videos or lectures. Economics teachers pretend ignorance of such things. Some of them state that they don't want students of Economics A-level, who are aware of how social science is usually taught. To glimpse it in practice through glass panels in doors, or to hear about it in snatches of conversation, would have caused unease. The notice boards in other departments might even have said <i>"tutorial"</i>. I suppose that when an economics professor goes to another department, students have to hush their conversations and black curtains have to be draped over any evidence of how social sciences are usually taught. Dropping-in to use the loo would be out of the question. It would be like a visit from Queen Victoria in mourning. The most trodden flooring in the department corridors led to the notice boards. The Department of Economics and Management Science at Keele University had a puzzling notice board, giving few clues about what we had to do next, what <i>"quantitive methods"</i> were, whether the expectations would get clearer, whether this course was going anywhere, and what would happen in year three where there were just question marks or something like that. It wasn't much different in other departments. English had "Augustans and Romantics", followed by "The Victorians", and some choice in the third year. Economics had courses just as vaguely-described, but a huge workload for staff and students that wasn't required for English. Something about economics suggests that it is an introduction to future secrets in a way that other subjects do not. Schools of thought are based on data that an undergraduate is unable to crunch. Texbooks use words like <i>"economist"</i> as though such a job is common. Professors can use phrase like <i>"... in economics"</i>, as though truth were different in different subjects. Autism has a different meaning in economics for example. </blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">There were no tutorials: that was the difference; the Economics department had classrooms. In other departments, the tutorial was the important compulsory thing.</span> </h4>
The department that looked like other social science departments next-door was run. In the early 80s there had been problem-solving "workshops" of students in groups of 6. By the time I arrived, most of the course was run more like the University of Boulder, Colorado in the 1960s where the chief had done a previous job before starting Keele Economics Department. The rooms had desk-size tables in them, set-out in rows with bigger table at one end next to an overhead projector or a white board. It wasn't like boarding school. We did not have to arrive with a trunk containing a tweed jacket three ties and 12 sets of white underwear; that might have been a rule for the staff. We didn't have to pack a bible and prayer book, but we did have to buy an 800 page book with crosses on it. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_lectern">There was no brass lecturn in the shape of an eagle</a> - that would be odd - but the meeting was called a "class" which was quite odd for a UK university, and there was a telephone on the teachers' desk which was odd as well. "Classes" would be small lectures or drills in subjects like statistics for two hours a week, which were alien to the departments like politics or american studies or english literature. I guess they were unique to Economics. Maybe Computer Science had them. I read that <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/jun/30/uk-universities-better-education-dont-be-seduced-by-us">US colleges don't have tutorials</a>, so the man who managed this economics department got a management and professorial job with barely any relevant experience. His CV says he was a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_States#Teaching_personnel">teaching assistant</a> for a couple of years at Berkley, which I gather can mean filling-in for lack of a proper tutorial by running small groups for "<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&q=recitations+microeconomics">recitation</a>" - a drilling excercise. Teaching assitants can help with revision, or possibly discussion. On a scale of badness, one to ten, with ten as the baddest teaching I could have expected at a UK university, a recitation is about ten. There were no teaching assistants at Keele, so economics students joined a different kind of club to 1960s american ones. When you get older than school leaving age - specially at student age - you should be able to study pretty-much on your own and extract knowledge from an expert who isn't a great teacher, but this man didn't give students a chance. He didn't talk about subjects he was interested in, like unemployment or trades unions. He stood at one end of a room and tried to cram us full of Paul Samuelson's view of the world; a textbook view of curves and introductory algebra. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #990000;"><b>Lecture:</b></span> A presentation or talk on a particular topic; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Seminar:</b></span> A discussion or classroom session focusing on a particular topic or project; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Tutorial:</b></span> A meeting involving one-to-one or small group supervision, feedback or detailed discussion on a particular topic or project; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Project supervision:</b></span> A meeting with a supervisor to discuss a particular piece of work; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Demonstration:</b></span> A session involving the demonstration of a practical technique or skill; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Practical classes and workshops:</b></span> A session involving the development and practical application of a particular skill or technique; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Supervised time in studio/workshop:</b></span> Time in which students work independently but under supervision, in a specialist facility such as a studio or workshop; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Fieldwork:</b></span> Practical work conducted at an external site; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>External visit:</b></span> A visit to a location outside of the usual learning spaces, to experience a particular environment, event, or exhibition relevant to the course of study; <span style="color: #990000;"><b>Work-based learning:</b></span> Learning that takes place in the workplace.</i> <i><i><strike><span style="color: #990000;"><b>Affair:</b></span> undefined</strike>.</i> QAA: <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/contact-hours.pdf">Contact Hours</a></i></blockquote>
We didn't use first names, or any names, even towards the end of a course: not "Les", nor "Leslie" or "Fishface" or anything else. We didn't use any names except to read from bits of paper like timetables and office doors. There was no interaction that would require the use of a name. There was no interaction that would help professor Fishman know the expectations and abilities of students except different variations of scowl on young un-creased faces. We were good essay-writers for example - postwar education in the UK had a lot of essays at O & A-level. All of us had noticed the recession as well, and wanted to test the ideas we had written and read-about. We were used to independent thought, conflicting opinions, and original sources. A lot of us were interested in manufacturing; that was big in the 80s too. In Colorado or UCLA, where Fishman learned his trade, the separation of students and staff is still normal; very short courses called modules are taught from a distance to a bus-load of people: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This is a large class. I probably will not learn all of your names. In addition to the course lectures on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you have been assigned to a once-a-week small review session with one or two teaching assistants. The teaching assistants for the course are there to help you both in the review sessions and in office hours. - <i>Professor Edward Moray who has 500 students at <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/">Colorado</a></i></blockquote>
On discovering that UK universities emphasise tutorials, Fishman must have decided and said: <i>"no: not for me"</i>, and the people around him must have gone-along with it for two years at Warwick University and then forever when he got a boss job at Keele. I expect he got caught-out as clueless at Warwick Uni and didn't want to be caught-out again. He was in favour of tutorials, in theory, just so long as they never happened. A colleague mentioned the first part of the sentence while checking whether we students were OK with the concept on our final year. We were. He even dared go with us to a pub at the end of the course (although not at the beginning) and we didn't throw things at him. According to his book he'd done the same in 1984: <i>"I am greatful also to my students at Keele for heated discussions on some of the ideas presented here."</i>. But Fishman was not going to change his position because of facts. As he said to <a href="https://youtu.be/2X2oKDN43PI">a visitor</a> in Colorado in 1965, there was always some reason that the students needed to be <i>"spoon fed"</i> for failure to <i>"absorb a text book"</i>, which sounds a bit like feeding a Sufferagette on hunger strike. He said the same at the end of his career as he did at the beginning. We students and teachers didn't learn from each other. I have no idea what the other students thought about anything, which is a pity because life after college doesn't provide such good opportunities for people who disagree to find-out about each other. Other social science departments had large tutorials of about 12 students, so I doubt people learned a huge amount from each other, but there was no chance in the Economics department. I think that's the hardest thing to re-create after college; there is no similar chance to meet people while they are learning about the economy. For example the textbook quotes steelworkers as an example of unemployed people who have bid their wages up to an un-competative level. Someone on the course had a dad who was a steelworker before the local steelworks closed. I would like to have a memory of a teacher asking <i>"does anyone have parents who have been through something like this?"</i>. No. That wasn't considered a suitable source of information, whether true or false. I wondered where all this economic certainty came-from, if not from real life.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>These approaches to the learning process are supported by appropriate resources including access to economic data bases, such as the Office of National Statistics data base, information technology based resources, and written materials. The use of such resources encourages active learning and the ability to select and make appropriate use of supporting evidence - <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/Publications/Documents/SBS-Economics-15.pdf">Quality Assurance Agency</a> default</i></blockquote>
The department had a lot of doors which probably led to vacant offices, since taxpayer funding had fallen by a third. Jobs called "<a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/kms/staff/professionalsupportstaff/">professional support staff</a>" didn't exist. One of the doors was the lavatory, because even American economics professors poo. If you opened the wrong door, you might find a sort of waiting room that doubled as a departmental library. Journals from the Office of National Statistics was stored in the departmental library, immaculate, with spines un-creased, in a safe place where nobody would ever find them because we didn't use primary sources for data. A lecturer mentioned them when we had to do a computer stats excercise. Maybe Eurostat data was there too - I saw it mentioned in handouts but never discovered how to look it up. As for the "red book" mentioned in a lecture about the budget statement, I tried asking in Chiswick Reference Library but the librarian said that it wasn't published under that title. We didn't use primary sources for ideas either. Not a page of Keynes or Friedman or the chancellor Sir Geoffrey Howe's speeches was turned. The Prime Minister decided to say she had <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Walters">an official economic advisor from an academic background</a>. His comments were not un-picked. Shelves on the classroom walls had long empty spaces. Students were encouraged to subscribe to the free journals sent-out by Lloyds Bank in those days before the internet, but we never had much use of their content. The <a href="http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/quarterlybulletin/default.aspx">Bank of England Quarterly Bulletin</a> was sometimes quoted. I said that the big difference was that there were no tutorials on the main course. None. Nor any invite to anything like. No tutor, no drop-in times, no discussions, no computer time. In the things called "class" someone would stand at one end of the room like a weatherman, talking about something forgettable like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_test">chi-squared</a> and test exercises to stop us forgetting it until the exam, and then revision classes. Some of them were about economic theories that were obviously untrue or inapplicable. I don't remember how often people asked questions in class; it wasn't encouraged, but that was the only interaction between staff and students. There was no option to opt-out of the obviously stupid parts of the course that taught wrong facts or un-usable skills. There was no need for advice about study choices because there was ony study choice in each main joint-honours part of the degree - a choice of between two short specialised courses in the third year which were taught like courses at other departments, with tutorials, and that was it, for three or four years of life commitment. The third year wasn't as long as years one and two because of exams and the need to hide in a room and revise every waking hour in the months beforehand, so the specialised course was short. After a month or so hiding with revision notes, and some exams, people drifted home. <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""> 12.</span></span></span><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;">Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices</span></span></span> <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"> Keele ran a Foundation <span style="font-family: inherit;">Year. A lot of next year's students were walking<span style="font-family: inherit;">-around the same corridors. They could be contacted with no need for a stamp and asked a question like <i>"do you know that this course repeats A-level</i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>?"</i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>; </i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>"do you know that it's better to change-away from your school subjects?"</i>. That didn't happen</span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: inherit;">. Maybe the person who's job it was to send information to students had been made redundant, and anyway paper costs half a penny per sheet. As at other universities, economics students are attracted by</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">a sort of con<span style="font-family: inherit;">, which is to use the same subject name as a popular essay-base<span style="font-family: inherit;">d A-level and then disappoint. As at other universities, students' ability to choose a cou<span style="font-family: inherit;">rse does not run as far as reading and understanding the pro<span style="font-family: inherit;">spectus. I d<span style="font-family: inherit;">idn't even know what <span style="font-family: inherit;">the non A-level sub<span style="font-family: inherit;">jects were. I just assumed that you <span style="font-family: inherit;">do A-le<span style="font-family: inherit;">vel, and th<span style="font-family: inherit;">en you find out a good place to "do" the same <span style="font-family: inherit;">sub<span style="font-family: inherit;">ject at uni or if you are very naughty at Keele t<span style="font-family: inherit;">hen maybe change in a fou<span style="font-family: inherit;">ndation year. I didn't realise that there is a great un-solved problem of whether Uni cour<span style="font-family: inherit;">ses repeat A-level, or whether Uni courses with similar names teach unexpected things. S<span style="font-family: inherit;">o <span style="font-family: inherit;">I was at fault for not knowing what to <span style="font-family: inherit;">st<span style="font-family: inherit;">udy, and good a<span style="font-family: inherit;">dv<span style="font-family: inherit;">ice as not available to peop<span style="font-family: inherit;">le applying to Uni <span style="font-family: inherit;">in order <span style="font-family: inherit;">to <span style="font-family: inherit;">f<span style="font-family: inherit;">ind out what they wanted to st<span style="font-family: inherit;">udy and compare i<span style="font-family: inherit;">t with what staff wanted to teach<span style="font-family: inherit;">. Teachers and students had to put-up with some kind of handed-down tradition of what a Uni economics course is meant to be.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">Organisation <span face="">&</span> management</span></span> </h3>
<h3>
</h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">13.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The timetable works efficiently as far as my activities are concerned. <span style="color: black;"><span face="">There was a problem with year three. Half of it didn't happen and we had a thing called a revision course instead. </span></span> 14.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> Any changes in the course or teaching have been communicated effectively.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: black;"><span face="">There was a problem with year two: no tutorials. This was a change but students didn't know it. The early 80s course sounds good, with "problem-solving workshops" of students in groups of six, but by the time I was there in 86, there was a man at one end of a room teaching about 25 people about ISLM curves in a closed economy - one where imports and exports aren't important like maybe the USA in 1930. He probably mentioned a bit on the side of the graph to show imports and exports, but the link between that bit on the side and 25% of the workforce not working wasn't mentioned much; I don't remember it.. I just remember hims saying that <i>"your attitude has been noted by all members of the department</i>". <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">.</span></span></span></span></span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">15.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">The course is well organised <span face="">&</span> is running smoothly.</span></span> It was calm <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">1<span face="">6</span>.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><s><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The <span face="">syllabus is roughly described on the pro<span face="">spectus a<span face="">nd brings together people with a common inter<span face="">est</span></span></span></span></span></s></span><s>.</s> There is no student survey question for how well a course is described to prospective students. Describe too much, and you prevent yourself as a teacher from adapting to the the people who turn-up. Some want a clear hard-to-fail course for no very good reason. Maybe they think it will help them in business which seems implausible. Some want a broad discussion in which it is easier to loose track of what's expected to pass the exam. Some expect a course to follow A-level, which seems reasonable. Some don't. Describe too little in the prospectus, and you can attract oddballs to an otherwise under-subscribed course who do not share any idea of why they sat-down in the same room together on day one. The system was to write about an A5 or A6 - size page of Times Roman in a printed prospectus, sent to reference libraries and school careers advisers. I'd like to see a scan of the one for 1987 entry Keele Economics. If any student wants to ask for a copy in the library, scan it and email to shop at veganline com that would be appreciated. It probably said that there was a broad lecture course and a narrow series of classes that dived-in to the essential detail needed to understand economics for general interest or financial careers. The students, like me, probably came for all sorts of reasons and that's a fault; students should be marked by teachers for the national student survey if it's fair. An online comment from an economics teacher from some college is that the variance between students in what they want is so great that you can't please many of them. An online comment from an economics student from some college is that nothing on the course can be used for anything - begging the question of why they applied for the course. (Personally, I would rather have studied industrial design but had no idea how to do it - my careers teacher thought it was something to do with art colleges. I read online that there was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnics_Central_Admissions_System">a system called ADAR and there was a new central system just starting-up for polytechnic courses</a>, stuff which I read for the first time on Wikipedia, rather too late.)<br />
<br />
<br />
Given flunked A-level grades, I discovered Keele Foundation Year and went from there. <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">15.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">The course is well organised <span face="">&</span> is running smoothly.</span></span> Fishman summoned students for no reason during the course, forgot what he had summoned them for, but did not apologise. I was one of them. I expect he had got the name wrong. I wondered again about his sense of hierarchy - it looked as though he thought he power of arrest as an adult education teacher, maybe picked-up when people who left US colleges faced the draft. The memo read<span face="">...</span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span face="">"please see me <span style="text-decoration: underline;">immediately</span>"</span></blockquote>
...without explanation. It was typed on a plain landscape ticket of paper about the width of A4 - something you might print with a tractor-feed and a daisy wheel printer. <a href="https://i0.wp.com/ianlouisharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Les-Fishman-Letter-2-September-1985-e1458848708620.jpg">You can see a sample here from the author of "The Price of Fish"</a>. A4 paper went a bit crooked in the american letter-width machine. So the department secretary most likely had a word-processor. This is relevant to the <span style="color: #990000;"><b><span face="">learning resources</span></b></span> paragraph. As for the message, that's all I know. I don't remember if it followed my too-and-fro under the other heading: <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><b>feedback from students</b></span></span>. Fishman must have known the faces of students, if not names because he only had a coach load of us in each year. I was on the register as David Robertson. I said my name was John. Maybe he remembered by question about Servis washing machines at the Design Centre. He paused.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Let me see. How are you getting on?"</i>.</blockquote>
This was the second time he spoke to me in my time at Keele. I don't know if I had a lucky escape. I liked to escape mad bureaucrats by using a different first name in real life to the name on the student register - about the only social skill I learnt at boarding school. If the plan of <i>"all members of the department"</i> had been to throw me off the course for answering-back or <i>"attitude"</i>, then this trick saved my place on the course, combined with a thrifty approach by the chief. If I didn't say anything terrible, he didn't need to know any more. Maybe the note was meant for someone else. I suppose I was getting-on OK; I had understood where to go at what time, I later did lots of revision and got my degree, but remember being puzzled by a lack of pattern in the course. This is a current quote about "module options in economics" that assumes a single-subject degree course: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"Universities offer a wide range of modules presenting us with a difficult task. We have chosen 20 modules that we feel are representative of all Universities nation-wide. Names and content of modules will differ depending upon the institution. Not all institutions offer all 20 modules listed but many offer others that we haven't covered." - <a href="http://studyingeconomics.ac.uk/module-options/">economics network guide for prospective students</a></blockquote>
Keele University offered loads of course options at random but only two courses for choice to economics students, reduced to one plus revision at whim in my 1984-7 group. I could study the UK economy or Cow Theory, which is untrue, so I studied the UK economy for about a quarter of the time over about 20 weeks in year three. The only other choice was whether we understood the notice board or not, and I had trouble. It began with vague headings for years one and two like "quantitative methods". Methods of what? Or time devoted to "micro economics" and "macro economics", as a kind of introduction to something that never happened. Economics is like that. There was a good textbook, nearly 800 pages long, with about 30 chaptors highlighting vital points in red and listing revision summeries at the end of each chapter. I'm only just reading it now: it's goodish. But, when a teacher taught textbook economics, it was not related closely to the textbook; we didn't have a list of what chaptors covered the same topics as whatever lectures. They were in a more academic style in which the X-shaped diagram of supply and demand is called the "SD model" in which S and D do something-or-other for those able to pay attention. The third year timetable was mysterious because the chief himself didn't know if there would be one or two optional modules, or else revision. I expect it had picture of question marks and dragons and sea monsters on it. What were we meant to do with our statistical knowledge or "quantitative methods" before we forgot it again? How many subjects were we meant to study in enough depth to answer an exam question? I suppose that if there had been tutorials, someone else would have asked these questions, the tutor would have said something, everyone else in the group would have discovered, and the tutor would have known better what should be typed and put on the notice board. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"the joint honours degree meant that each department was constrained to deliver just the core of the subject, since they only had about 6 hours per week of the students total time. The purpose of the design was to enable students to put together unusual combinations of subjects through their own choices, which was a good idea, but with a teaching downside. And then in the 1990s students increasingly opted for related subjects, making the original design redundant. The second year economics in the 1980s was</i> <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <i>three hours lectures, two hours on stats, and</i><br />
</li>
<li> <i>one class.</i><br />
</li>
</ul>
<i>The third year was similar, with</i> <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <i>one or</i><br />
</li>
<li> <i>two</i><br />
</li>
</ul>
<i>options in the final half of the year." - email reply to a question from <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/">an ex-Keele economics professor</a> <span style="color: #990000;"> " <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge</span> in an appropriate number of specialised areas in economics as well as an <span style="color: #b45f06;">appreciation of the research literature in these areas</span>." - QAA <span style="color: black;">benchmark</span></span></i></blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
If there was a coach-load of students per year for economics, half-time in the second two years (less in the first) , then a class was probably for 15 people and a lecture for 30, costing five hours on the payroll per week. Add to that the cost of preparation, marking, and administration, and you get more, and I could be wrong; maybe there were two coach loads of people on the course but it was certainly a cheap course from college administrators' point of view and not great value from my point of view, with teachers stuck between the two points of view. When Keele economics staff were threatened with redundancy in 2008, it is a fault in the system that they could not have just gone and taught in a room above a reference library somewhere in the pottery towns and got just as many applicants without the price of a hierachy to pay-for. <span face=""><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"></span></span></span><b>Oh we were talking about study choices</b> There weren't any in economics except between the British Economic Crisis course and one on Cow Theory. Some years there was a course on how to fund the welfare state in thirty years' time, but it didn't run my year as they couldn't afford the staff, so students had to study the inplausible ISLM diagram and learn it by heart instead. There wasn't any choice about that. In brighter times there would be a second specialist course. <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSyRT92QrCbstzSkKkyKVZ2u4AOnN-kLIeiRMhsBnuq3MfxmdcdTx5zD7hvc8X5mP6U0iWrOmq-X0EtRN2V_XlBNUB9hyphenhyphenDTDGOquwpXYJkdiyleoIGDWF2Z8cuGRQzxY587IV7eDV3f0Vk/s1600/broiler-chicken.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="185" data-original-width="272" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSyRT92QrCbstzSkKkyKVZ2u4AOnN-kLIeiRMhsBnuq3MfxmdcdTx5zD7hvc8X5mP6U0iWrOmq-X0EtRN2V_XlBNUB9hyphenhyphenDTDGOquwpXYJkdiyleoIGDWF2Z8cuGRQzxY587IV7eDV3f0Vk/s1600/broiler-chicken.jpg" /></a>For no stated reason, Fishman decided not; he would tutor a <i>"revision class"</i> in the time remaining, to teach the more technical bits of Economics A-level for the third time. <i>"Tutor"</i> was just a word on a notice board. He handed out photocopied sheets of excercises and we rehearsed answers or watched him run-through an explanation. Excercises about things like diminishing marginal utility, finding the tummy button on the dinosoar, implausible ISLM charts with the vital bit hidden on one side, and something to do with broiler chickens.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">Learning resources</span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">16.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The library resources and services are good enough for my needs. 17.</span></span><input type="checkbox" /> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""></span>I have been able to access general IT resources when I needed 18.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">I have been able to access specialised equipment, facilities, or rooms when I needed to.</span></span> <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
There was another management problem in a slot-together course. Who is best placed to teach computerised stats or allow <i>"access to specialised equipment"</i> to social scientists? The Computer Science Department run by temps? The Library? If they both refuse, who's next best? The same problem applies to any course that uses technical equipment, and the answer should probably be the careers office, that might try to arrange access that non-students can use as well as students; access wouldn't end on graduation day. For example if Staffordshire Uni could teach parts of its pot course in commercial factories at weekends, and the same factories let time by the hour to anyone safe, that would be good for small pot businesses in Staffordshire and good for under-employed pot graduates. The problem ran from the early 20th century, when tabulating machines were useful but expensive, through to 1987 when people at Keele still used the mainframe, until a few years ago when job adverts still specified epensive software like SPSS that no job applicant would want to buy in order to train for the job.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1940s and 1950s computing</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Practical Farmers of Idaho continue a tradition of statistics used for practical farming, particularly at the Idaho State College where the two types of mechanical calculator - an adding machine and a tabulator - were teamed together with the help of people who's job title was "computer" and plenty of help from business administration or economics students looking for work. US machines were unusual in using punched cards; the ones in my dad's business had adding machine printouts and card displays on racks, with ingenious puching-through of numbers through carbon paper to different account sheets and cards, but no database. People who's names are quoted in statistics books travelled long distances to see the set-up at Idaho, and other colleges like Colorado copied the set-up later. By 1958, Colorado's statistical laboratory had an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1620">IBM 1620</a> computer. <a href="http://www.stat.colostate.edu/statdepartment/pdf/Statistics%20History.pdf">There are pictures of it on page 15 of the link</a>. Fishman used it, or a successor, to print tables of correlations for his team's work on unemployment experiences of ex defense workers. There were similar computing systems developed in the UK, twice held back by one person. Churchill chose the gold standard in the 1930s, making exports difficult, and the same Churchill ordered the break-up of the Bletchley Park computer after the second world war. Dispite Churchill's efforts, there were computers in UK colleges in the 1960s.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1960s and 1970s computing</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Fishman lectured for a year or two at <a href="http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/">Warwick University</a>. Their library catalogue has a folder of old press releases which they have labelled "Folders", like this one: "<span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent">Folders: Oct 1966 - Sep 1967 - New buildings ... <span class="highlight customHighlight">Statistics</span> Lab". They would have used a GEC or ICL mainframe. Later the college made a video to explain their stats program called SPSS. That was a free program developed in 1969 at Chicago University and described in a McGraw Hill manual that appeared college book shops and most college libraries from about 1970. SPSS ran on the kind of mainframe computers that ran Fortran and were owned by universities and large companies. If Keele had a computer it was quite likely the one in this</span> <span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent"><span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent"><a href="http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/geccl/4000series/4080sales.html#os">1973 sales brochure</a> , which was daunting but had a keyboard and a screen and a text-based disc operating system as well as free training from the manufacturer, if your boss paid a vast fee for the computer.</span></span> <span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent"><span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent"><span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent">Keele has a few books in the library about programming with <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_W">Algol</a> in the 60s and 70s - a system that was also used at Stamford Uni and had something to do with cards.</span></span></span> Fishman was well placed to start teaching SPSS; he could watch the videos at Warwick University. He could read the manual in a library. He could get the program for free in the late 60s. He could even afford a car. His daughter was on an economics course at Sussex University and could tell him what they did there. Fishman had experience of using some kind of punched card system for his surveys of labour trends on Denver in the mid 60s. None of these advantages persuaded Fishman to take the initiative, risk doing something he was bad at, and learn how to use the thing. This time he didn't go-in to the job as the boss of the project nor could he delegate to specialists. Not all social science departments at universities used statistics software for undergraduate courses. A reference from <a href="http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~itsnew/newsletter/PDFscanOCR/1984/ocr198401.pdf">St Andrews University says that some social science departments only had a handful of people registered to use their computer in 1971</a> (see "ten years ago", bottom left of the linked leaflet). <span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent">SPSS was free for a while, then very expensive, so rivals including open source or cheap stats programs took most of the market.</span> By the end of the 1970s, office and university computers were more common. <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=statistics&safe=off&biw=1204&bih=901&tbs=bkt:m,bkms:1168684103302644050,sbd:1&tbm=bks&ei=78GCVoLjDYa4eZKzrwg&start=440&sa=N&dpr=1">Free and cheap stats programs were available if obscure and hard to use</a>. <span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent">Keele had an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEC_Computers">OS4000 operating system on a GEC mainframe for a main central computer service by 1980</a> which could, presumably, run programs like SPSS although there aren't many references to Keele and computing from the 1970s, nor named software that could run on the OS4000. There are references to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran">Fortran</a>, which was also used by punched card systems in the 60s for surveys of employment trends in Denver </span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1980s computing</span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><i>Expectation C <span style="color: #741b47;"><br />
Higher education providers produce <span style="color: #990000;"><b>information</b> for their intended audiences</span> about the learning opportunities they offer that is <b><span style="color: #990000;">fit for purpose, accessible and trustworthy</span></b>. - Quality Assurance Agency</span></i></span> <span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
<br />
It's impossible to believe that anyone in the 80s would have signed-up to an economics degree that had two hours' a week of manual stats computing, if they access to information that was fit for purpose. But with a huge hole in the budget and not much idea who would be available to teach what, it's easy to see why information and the offer were a bit vague. There were plans to merge departments with another college for example, dropped at the last minute, so the department chief would not have known if he was going to work to retirement age or get redundancy before.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Long Bit about 1980s computering </span></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: #38761d;">Note to self: combine green bits At the turn of the decade, a lot of schools took a government grant towards their first micro-computer - a BBC Acorn machine that matched video programs of how to write a program in the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29">Pascal programming language</a>. All this passed me by until the Keele foundation year, when a short course followed exactly the same format, but without the micro-computers or videos. A temporary teacher stood at one end of a room, apologised for not usually using Pascal, and tried to explain some point about programming while writing a programming on the white board, that we could copy-down and complete on the GEC mainfraime that evening. If it worked, then we bridged the gap between arts and science teaching and formed a new better-educated group of graduates. If it didn't work, we just wondered where all those micro-computers and videos had gone.</span></span> </h4>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<span style="color: #38761d;"><a href="http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~itsnew/newsletter/PDFscanOCR/1984/ocr198401.pdf">St Andrews University had SPSS on their mainframe but expected to give it up as users moved</a> to the <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980212012028/http://www.spss.com/corpinfo/history.htm">MSDos version as released in 1984</a>, with an <a href="http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/mi/1984/06/04071156.pdf">asking prices from $795</a> to $1,400 for all three parts. Their document mentions consultation - something alien to Keele economics students. <span dir="ltr" id="baseDirectionInsertComponent">I remember a GEC mainframe computer available to computer science students in the mid 80s and used for attempts to teach <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29">Pascal</a> without much success. There weren't enough decent books on how to use Pascal because, as the teacher said "It's hard for me because people don't usually use Pascal; I don't use Pascal", but it was the programming language that the GEC computer could handle by default. This was one of the loads of short courses that everyone had to do. There were terminals in a room in Keele's computer science department, available all day and all evening for anyone to register to use. The terminals were a bit like MsDOS with no teaching help available and probably fewer functions. </span>Keele Economics Department would have a word processor from some point in the mid eighties - most likely an early Amstrad that had a CP/M operating system or a PC with Wordstar. Both came bundled with a program called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperCalc">Supercalc</a>. <a href="http://primrosebank.net/computers/mtx/documents/FDX/SuperCalc_1.2_UG.pdf">Supercalc Version 1</a> had no statistical functions beyond a lesson in the manual for calculating "break-even" on fixed and variable costs, but the 1987 versions of Supercalc and its cheap rival As Easy As (version 3, 1987) had buttons for</span> <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">average (mean),</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">variance</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #38761d;">standard deviation.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<span style="color: #38761d;">Meanwhile the job agencies of London high streets had postcards in the window for people who could touch-type to 60 or 120 words a minute, and people who could use Lotus 123, Wordstar or Wordperfect. Some time in the 80s, department secretaries in colleges like Keele could have been the best qualified teacher available, because they had the latest manual for the office computer. The 1987 degree exam was obsolete even as we took it in terms of preparing students with craft skills for getting jobs in job agencies.</span> <span style="color: #38761d;"></span> <span style="color: #38761d;">Going off the point, I don't remember any non-teaching support staff at the department beyond someone who answered a phone call once. <a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/kms/staff/professionalsupportstaff/">Now there are this many</a>, which I count as twelve. The economics department in 1984-7 had fewer students than the combined department in 2016, but not twelve times fewer, and I somehow had the impression that there was only one person to answer the phone and do the admin when I was a student, plus a registry in one of the old huts.</span> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1980s half-sane or sane computing</span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEin8a7JKHOGUwyITWW2CE5suyRZJqUQ2sdzWYU_PbXDMhbi4JJhdcY6AkXgEwMEPGEzXUQahcqdEj5eVQ9vGp8VAzZp-BY3uYgkjj3tKyrFNiPIqxqcNZvpC6DvcaPitjmuBAF5LT9ApWE4/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="179" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEin8a7JKHOGUwyITWW2CE5suyRZJqUQ2sdzWYU_PbXDMhbi4JJhdcY6AkXgEwMEPGEzXUQahcqdEj5eVQ9vGp8VAzZp-BY3uYgkjj3tKyrFNiPIqxqcNZvpC6DvcaPitjmuBAF5LT9ApWE4/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a> </h4>
<span style="color: #38761d;">Somewhere, the economics department had obtained a collection of BBC Acorn micro computers. If you were running an economics course in the 1980s, and your college had just suffered massive funding cuts, you had a problem. Academic staff and staff or all kinds were the two hardest things to cut, making everything else a cyclical good, like a van, which is not replaced in a recession, or paper and library books, which are not bought. At the same time the whole number-crunching business changes each year in the 1980s. In the 70s, college principals fell for sales talks from ICL and GEC selling mainframe computers. In the 80s, there was a brief flourish of UK-made personal computers that were far cheaper and were used in education, followed by a mass take-up of imported computers that were IBM compatible for offices or apple compatible for graphics. <span style="background-color: lime;"><NOTE TO SELF>This bit has come round before </NOTE TO SELF></span> The choice was more confusing because of a short-lived public education program. Grants were available for schools to buy Acorn's BBC Micro computers, and even <a href="http://nosher.net/archives/computers/comp_today_1981-09_042#7">colleges got a grant in May 85</a>. The British Council funded some in Colombo, Sri Lanka. Software for them was <span data-dobid="hdw">aimed</span> <span data-dobid="hdw">cringing-ly</span> at the school market, but that <a href="http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/cgi/archive.pl?type=Software&platform=BBC%20Micro">might have included something good for stats</a>, while college departments would have brochures from <a href="http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcbasic/birthday/">Instat</a> through their letter box, available from <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2347353?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents">November 1985</a> at under £100 from <a href="http://www.reading.ac.uk/ssc/resourcepage/instat.php">Reading University, who's current price is £500 for a department and free for non-commercial use</a>. They wrote it for that British Council job in Sri Lanka. I suppose £100 counted as one of those <i>"little bits extra"</i> that Fishman mentioned to his boss on the phone mid-class. Five Ways Software produced a stats program for the BBC called "Status" in 1987, the same year in which Trius Softwrae included functions for Variance, Mean, and Standard Deviation in As Easy As Version 3, an early cheap spreadsheet for IBM compatible machines. (vetusware.com/output/klaicvrf/ASEASY3 dot zip)</span> <span style="color: #38761d;"></span> <span style="color: #38761d;">Academic journals reviewed other similar options for other operating systems, and you can check the names of the programs on google scholar and jstor. The choice of system was confusing, but information was easy to get in academic journals. Money and clarity were the problem. Economic policies, that we were not taught about, lead to the closure of the Acorn Computers and BBC Micro production soon after. So, running a small Economics department in the 1980s you would have had a few choices, with the added complication of an operating system that had come-in and gone-out of fashion very quickly. Otherwise the choices were familiar enough.</span> <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="color: #38761d;">How to share computers stats teaching work with other departments?</span><br /><br />
</li>
<li><span style="color: #38761d;">How to get usable software & computers in a place with evening access and security?</span><br /><br />
</li>
<li><span style="color: #38761d;">Can existing hardware - BBC Micros, the computer in the office and the Computer Science mainframe - run good enough software?</span><br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<span style="color: #38761d;">The half-sane option would be to read the brochures that came in the mail and the journal articles, buy something like Instat, put it on at least one BBC Micro, and bolt that down to a desk in the department library, increasing numbers as demand required. The sane option would be to work something out with the main library or computer science department, who had buildings open in the evenings with security. It would rely on other departments being sane, but other universities managed it and Fishman was a negotiator. He could have had a word with the college Grandee, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Moser,_Baron_Moser">Sir Clous Moser</a>, who was a statistician. Except that he did; I probably heard it in class. It was the call about <i>"that little bit extra"</i> that needed to be cut-back in order to pay for Moser's opera. [Technical note: politicians seldom compre one budget like education against another like arts, and economists don't pick them up on this point often enough. Maybe this is because grandees from the Royal Opera House are then appointed to run every other instituion in the UK].</span> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1980s computing after neglect and then 30% budget cuts</span> </h4>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
The photo is from a school, but very much like the set-up at Keele. The scarce BBC micro computers were not used every day for a load of different departments. They weren't bolted to desks for students to use somewhere public. They were put to one side of a locked classroom on one department , and I expect that one or two other departments got some others, and the Computer Science department was left with none. We students used them for one exercise only. We chose two columns of figures - advised to go back 25 years I think - and checked correlation, using a simple command-line program that was hard to use or apply to anything real. There was no feedback or discussion of any student results - even our own - we were simply scored on our ability to do a stats exercises with numbers we had chosen.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>...to develop in students, through the study of economics, a range of generic skills that will be of value in employment and self-employment - Quality Assurance Agency attempt at a consensu statement on Economics</i></blockquote>
Keele graduates had a skill too completely useless to put on our CVs. Fishman's CV starts <i>"1942 (Fall) Assistant statistician, Aluminium and Magnesium Branch, <a href="http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~law00045">Production Board</a>, Washington DC"</i>. If a similar job cropped-up in 1988, Keele Economics graduates would not qualify to apply. Fishman applied during a shortage of qualified people. If a similar job cropped-up in 1988, an employer would have trouble fending-off all the applications. By the mid 1980s, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As-Easy-As">a $60 MSDOS spreadsheet had stats processing functions</a>, affordable for self-employment. Job agency windows in West London still had some office jobs and named the software needed, which was never related to BBC Micros. Wordstar, Wordperfect, Lotus 123 were the programs for getting jobs. Instat might have helped get a job - it was at least a named piece of software that could be quoted on a CV. SPSS would become a favourite for social science research job adverts because it was so over-priced that it was nearly impossible to learn at home. I know this because I tried to get a social science research job ten years after graduating, and failed to find a pirate copy to learn from. Fishman's department got £<a href="http://www.researchcatalogue.esrc.ac.uk/grants/F00232257/read">23,900</a> and then £<a href="http://www.researchcatalogue.esrc.ac.uk/grants/F00232412/read">9,810</a> of taxpayer funding from the Economic and Social Research Council starting in 1985 for researching redundant Michelin Tyre workers in the Potteries, so there should have been a chance to pay for some software out of that money as well as funding out of teaching money. <a href="https://encore.keele.ac.uk/iii/encore/record/C__Rb1336428">The oldest SPSS software book in the college library is 1988</a>; if Fishman had done his job four years earlier, four years'-worth of students would have had massively better job prospects. <br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">20-teens computing</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #b45f06;">awareness</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">proficiency</span> in quantitative methods & computing techniques appropriate to their programme of study, <span style="color: #b45f06;">show an appreciation of the contexts in which these techniques and methods are relevant</span> & <span style="color: #38761d;">how to use them effectively across a range of problems</span>. - Quality Assurance Agency benchmark for economics degrees</i></blockquote>
There were fewer things like Quality Assurance Agency Benchmark Standards in the 80s, but the principal still applies; I expected to use current computer technology for some kind of model and any reasonable applicant to the course would expect the same.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="">Chapter <span face="">X</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face="">A digression about the <span face="">chief, Les Fishman</span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html</a> has more, and most of this should go there and you might want to skip to the next bit<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhR372Mn88h9WyXuDbRaeGqcv9f2LZhHyud-6K3JPI3WJ8TCmevmXO2iBsHzQf-oGKZ5EwatDgXa0ze3iXxNdg74_ChI_zBcv5hetofYCBAbvjRmskbY8fw-zdJ1ROHyG1CvHlGjHwiEQQr/s1600/temp2.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="256" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhR372Mn88h9WyXuDbRaeGqcv9f2LZhHyud-6K3JPI3WJ8TCmevmXO2iBsHzQf-oGKZ5EwatDgXa0ze3iXxNdg74_ChI_zBcv5hetofYCBAbvjRmskbY8fw-zdJ1ROHyG1CvHlGjHwiEQQr/s320/temp2.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
The man's name was "Leslie Fishman". It said so on his office door, as do descriptions of the <a href="http://www.keele.ac.uk/ugcourses/economics/">Fishman Bursary</a>, in memory of all those who suffered his awful course. His bottom, pictured above, was known as "Professor Leslie Fishman". Professor Fishman left a lot of records and I wonder if they show why a teaching economist could so clearly talk out of his bottom about the UK 1980s economic crisis at the height of its effects, to some of the people most effected. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
He was an interesting, decent man in other ways, which makes him easier to write about. He also taught a course that was meant to be "introductory", or a taster course I suppose. Textbooks have "introduction" written on them. So I have always wondered what this was an introduction to; what secret events go-on behind the scenes, and obituaries of Leslie Fishman suggested that there might be something to find, which there wasn't but it's a biography worth a look. All I discovered was that I am still angry about the 1980s recession and economists in general. And I found some Pete Seger music online which is a kind of curiosity. Tha man's name was "Leslie Fishman". It says so under this picture of him before judges in a public competition to make noises out of his bottom. Or maybe it is as the report says: he trying to drum-up student support for a staff boycott of a system called a "loyalty oath" at UCLA, University College Los Angeles, where he had become part of the furniture since the age of 16. The front of him made a speech, <a href="http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb6c6006vs;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00016&toc.depth=1&toc.id=&brand=oac4">reported as dramatic</a>. The subject attracted however many students you can count in the photo, But it was his bottom that became my professor in the early 80s. Fishman in the 70s and early 80s survived a peer-review system that suggests he was not much worse than economics professors running other short courses like the Oxford PPE course, that schooled several MPs and people who MPs meet. University College London and probably Open University ran short economics degree courses too. (A couple of teachers from Open University and Middlesex University - Leviacic and Redman - wrote a textbook about monetary policy so stupid that I wrote angry notes in the margin dispite the chance of selling it for a fiver if I had left it clean.) Fishman Junior - Nina Fishman - <a href="http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Nina+Fishman">donated just about every bit of paper from her life to libraries</a>. Les Fishman had an interest in US civil rights that left him remembered in fond notes scattered across the internet. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">There is so much that I should transfer most of this to another page and cut what's written here</a>. Lastly he belonged to a party that might have got him on the list of people to stalk and bug at MI5 and got him in the picture above and if so the file might one day be released to <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/09/news/adna-prof9">the National Archive just as one of his ex colleagues in the USA has seen</a> notes of reports to him to the FBI by a college president. The scale of injustice against political people was large. I am not sure quite how to look-up records. I think there were overt efforts from about 1946-56 and <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110127001223/http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm">covert till 71</a>. That late date says something. It is late enough to wear-out a man who was once a debating champion and student activist, and force him to move to the UK where teaching standards are higher and it rains more. It is late enough to suggest other US efforts to promote any available gangster (or better) to run any available country in order to stop the spread of something they didn't like and called communism. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Most of this section has moved to the post headed Leslie Fishman</a> <br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">University of Berkley Arts Bachelor, war service, and teaching</span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAONYYCsAmy9dPnQQG6dfTDNTXEqWOEkp4tLTYov8X4qA0YzUzi684qXi0xjIppydmnFh_dNJLetxSTdvfVqGYivZ5s_M8FZcTr3g3AuG3BDnkVXEkJGdPGnf_FkWoCBw5CXjzB37xbkjM/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="268" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAONYYCsAmy9dPnQQG6dfTDNTXEqWOEkp4tLTYov8X4qA0YzUzi684qXi0xjIppydmnFh_dNJLetxSTdvfVqGYivZ5s_M8FZcTr3g3AuG3BDnkVXEkJGdPGnf_FkWoCBw5CXjzB37xbkjM/s400/temp.jpg" width="400" /></a> <span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></span> </h3>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="line-h">
<i>The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9, 1918, takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star to Sergeant Leslie Fishman, United States Army, for gallantry in action as a member of Company G, 303d Infantry Regiment, 97th Infantry Division, in action at Troisdorf, Germany, on 11 April 1945. ...</i></div>
<i><b>General Orders:</b> Headquarters, 97th Infantry Division, General Orders No. 12 (May 2, 1945) -- In the assault on the <a href="http://www.steel-photo.org/2015/04/03/mannstaedt-werke/">Glockner Works</a> <a href="http://www.mannstaedt.de/uk/home.html">at Troisdorf</a> , one platoon was immediately cut off as it entered a building in the factory complex. A firefight developed in which several soldiers of the platoon were killed or wounded. The platoon's position was untenable. For Sergeant Leslie Fishman, the solution to the problem was obvious: the Germans should surrender. Sergeant Fishman and Second Lieutenant W. Christianson, a company officer who was cut off with the platoon, persuaded Nazi soldiers to lead them to the officer in charge. While admitting that they were hopelessly surrounded, Fishman and Christianson warned the enemy officer that an American battalion would soon be in position to attack the Glockner Works and that the wisest course of action would be for the Germans to surrender immediately. Within a short period of time, six German officers and 170 enlisted men were prisoners of Lieutenant Christianson and Sergeant Fishman. The courage, initiative, and determination illustrated by this example were attributes of many of the men in the Division. - <a href="http://www.97thdivision.com/historyp1.html">http://www.97thdivision.com/historyp1.html</a></i></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">The CV is from Fishman's thesis, eventually submitted in 1957. He didn't mention the medal.</span></span> <span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">A document from April 1950 has <i>"<a href="http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb387004x8&chunk.id=div00127&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text">Leslie Fishman, lecturer in business administration and spokesman for the Non-Senate Academic Employees</a>"</i>, the same one who addressed students in the top picture and is sacked in <a href="http://www.oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb3199p1m6&brand=oac4&doc.view=entire_text">September 1950</a>, so he only got one year of lecturing experience, and no money to look after a child. It looks as though most of the benefit of the job as accomodation and a chance to get a second degree, needed for a teaching career, and he hadn't finished the one he was doing. Fishman would also have been an obvious target and obvious speaker because a web reference cites him as a <i>"<a href="http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-hoac&month=0803&week=d&msg=2900cKHw8U8DiYxAHZRG7w&user=&pw=">former CIO researcher</a>"</i> - the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Industrial_Organizations#Purging_the_communists">CIO</a> being a union group hounding-out communists at the same time, so he lost both jobs. The CV doesn't say anything about the jobs. There is a record of a Senate enquiry into the textile trade, where the CIO boss answers questions and Fishman sits next to him without speaking. There are clues about the teaching assistant and lecturer jobs from Fishman's teaching style later-on. He was keen in "revision classes" and cancelled other study options in order to teach them himself. He would also come-up with folksy references to every-day finance. These are the clues about the subject and teaching skills he would have picked-up.</span></span> </h3>
</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/jun/30/uk-universities-better-education-dont-be-seduced-by-us">US colleges don't do tutorial discussions as a rule</a>. They may have revision classes run by teaching assistants, or the odd discussion, or "recitation" which is drilling of workbook excercises. Searching online for microeconomics workbook exercises, you see references to UCLA and courses like <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160210170800/http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/christian.dippel/Dippel_MGMT405_2013_Syllabus.pdf">this one in 2013</a></span></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">. It's hard to see why someone would sign-up to such a course, even if paid-for indirectly via taxes to the state of California. 45% of the marks for this wrote-learning course are awarded for agreeing with the teacher in homework and "class participation", and there is a maxium proportion of graduates who can get top grades which would allow them entry to graduate-entry schemese or a chance to pay for further study, perhaps funded by being a teaching assistant. Anyone who graduates well from this course is a good actor or easily-led. It is the opposite of a good english degree.</span></span> <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.collegeatlas.org/bachelor-of-arts.html">Business Administration Degrees</a> at Berkley are now only available to people who drop-out of a major subject after year one and study for two thirds of the rest of their time, starting from scratch; the same system might have applied in the 1940s, and it if did, applicants would be people who wanted to avoid the draft but didn't dare mention anything so controversial in an essay or a tutorialm because the likes of the McArthey committee would summon them and question them and generally upset their career prospects and funding for the college if nothing else. Business administration degrees <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Business_Administration">do not cover macro-economics</a> and more like those <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">modern degrees</a> with titles like "hospitality and tourism" that produce the most unemployed graduates.</span></span> <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://extension.berkeley.edu/cert/busad.html">Hass Business School Extension Program</a> is another brand name of the same department. It runs an adult education evening class; it is not part of a degree course. They scour the globe for people willing to pay them money for courses like <a href="http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/international/idp/businessadministration/">http://extension.berkeley.edu/static/international/idp/businessadministration/</a> I haven't worked-out how much it overlaps with university teaching at Keele 1985-7.</span></span><br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">The poster girl for Hass Extensions is someone sent by her employer - someone internally promoted, not proven in business or business-minded, who wants to test her common sense knowledge and play a part in company meetings. The markets for that kind of teaching at the time could have been training for returning soldiers, guest events at schools, general knowledge courses for young apprentices; anything that any institution wanted to pay for, with cheap staff and an immaculate proposal. I guess these adult education business administration students are different from college students in a recession who have already done <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150209133558/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302106/A_level_economics_subject_content.pdf">A-level economics</a> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150209133558/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302106/A_level_economics_subject_content.pdf">A level</a> . One group is interested in micro-economics; one macro-economics. One group generally wants to know how well things are working, the other group wants to know why they don't work. One group is there because they want to prove that they know how a whelk stall works; the other group are there because they think they already know how a whelk stall works and want to know about the Treasury. The modest group has a job; the grander group has no job.</span></span> <span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i>"Do people keep money in their checking account now? I remember, when I was younger, you would always try to keep a little bit of a reserve in your bank account".</i> Fishman had a slow, goofy way of talking, and I remember some of the lines that seemed a bit odd later-on when he taught university degree students. He had an odd style of self-interruption would suit technical subjects. He'd say things like <i>"it costs 99p. Do you want the 1p change? No? Well maybe you do! A piece of research says that people do prefer to pay 99p".</i></span></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<span style="color: #073763;">My father was also a student in the first years of the war. It was easy to get a place in a grand-sounding university in the late 30s and early 40s because people at universities are usually of military age; if you were fit for one university, I guess you were pretty-much fit for all of them. The teachers were like the cast of Dad's Army, and it was normal to start a course before military service, as my and Fishman did, in hope of securing a place on return. My fathers' brother didn't return from fighting in Holland that involved the stalking of an enemy sniper post from behind a haystack, with a very long radio arial. Officers on both sides had ordered continued fighting, even though anyone who listened to the radio rightly guessed it was a few days from the end of the war in Europe.</span> Some of those who came back didn't take to being treated like people in a monastery or a boarding school. The boss of one college ordered barbed wire to be put on the walls, in some wierd attempt to stop people leaving the building at night. One morning he found the ex-commandos had coiled it up and returned to block the stairs outside his staff flat, I think the walls went without barbed wire after that.<br />
<br />
Fishman had tried a few experiments at Berkley on return from war, trying to help students who got badly treated while working as restaurant staff by taking collective action. He didn't get far but it was a good idea. He had another idea to delay or stop this planned loyalty oath system, which was to get enough people to refuse on principal that it could not be used as a way of smmandoscocking staff. Another good try. <span style="color: #073763;">My father also served in the lowest rank and survived doing Russian supply convoys in wobbly Liberty Boats by fluke - because they were cancelled. He was offered a chance to be a weather man and took it. The meterological staff used to use seaweed to look technically competant to visiting officers. Like algebra, nobody knew what it meant except that the met office staff were busy. When allowed to leave the forces he returned to his university, changed his subject and met his partner a few years later. He said that returning soldiers are good at exposing silly managers. Someone at his live-in college tried to stop students returning after-hours by putting barbed wire on the walls. Ex-commandos took it off and very honestly left it blocking the manager's staircase, just in case he had some other use for it.</span> The page below is the kind of teaching material available for Business Administration lectures. It's from the contents pages of Samuelson's 1948 textbook. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">You can see it on the "search inside" page on Amazon for a new reprint and there's a transcript on a blog page called Leslie Fishman Writing</a>s. There are other chapters but these are the most relevant for reasons I guess below the quote. A first impression is that there wasn't an A-level economics course in those days; this textbook starts from scratch, which gives it a sense of being a coherent whole. It's based on one decade, one author, one country. Those who read every word might have more detailed comments. The person who wrote it had an easy job because a reason for being a student in 1948 - specially if you ended up on the business administration course - was to avoid the draft to be killed in Vietnam, a subject absent from the textbook. Paul Samuelson's courses were full to the brim. Likewise, when I studied at Keele in 1984, the main reason was to avoid unemployment of the kind surely to apply to us students of useless teaching by over-paid people who listened to Pete Seeger and reheased multiple-choice excercises about broiler chickens and X-shaped diagrams. Whatever teaching assistants did at Berkley, it might have included revision classes and answering questions from puzzled students, so Fishman would have been a walking index to the new Samuelson text book. For his dissertation, he would have known chaptor nine almost by heart. A student newspaper suggests he might have lectured in insurance, so he would have known chapter 10 almost by heart, as well as any other chapters that he worked-on as a teaching assistant. <span style="color: #4c1130;"></span> The year Fishman got an unfair dismissal, a 35 year-old from Idaho did the rounds of California academic conferences touting the most un-apealing jobs in academia. The job was in a small college surrounded by cows in the middle of nowhere that was not yet called a university, although it planned to award degrees in three years' time. It was a college for older teenagers. Other courses were the things teenagers studied in Idaho - often very precise craft subjects like "fender repair". The job started in a few years' time with the title "instructor". Student reviews call this one of the "best cheap colleges"; wages probably weren't good. And so many teenagers were studying any possible degree course to avoid the Vietnam draft that it was hard to get academic staff at any institution, let alone Idaho. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_State_University#History">Idaho state college</a> <span style="color: red;">Pocatello 1955-8</span> </h4>
People in Idaho have an unusual characteristic. They are very serious about farming statistics, and like to share good ideas for free rather than keep them secret. At least, that was the opinion of the young editor of a farming magazine called Practical Farmer who managed to borrow the latest calculating machines and teach himself statistics in the 1920s and 1930s, helping to build-up the statistics laboratory at Idaho State College. He went on to become vice president of the USA so he might not have been typical, but Idaho was the place to be to study statistics and farming. A similar enthusiasm survives at <a href="http://practicalfarmers.org/">Practicalfarmers.org</a> which I now realise is in Iowa rather than Idaho. A reference survives in Fishman's free-to-read work on unemployment in the Denver area a decade or two later. He footnotes a guide book to statistical methods, written by someone at Idaho. There's no record of anything Fishman wrote in the Idaho college library, but a google book search reveals him as "Instructor in Business" on a couple of inspectors' reports. Type "Pocatello" into the search box for either report and you see very specific course titles like "Fender repair", so "instructor" was a good job title. Idaho is somewhere were people are used to awkward beliefs, at least in their own traditions; it is a religious area with a the main tradition set by the prophet <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith">Joe Smith</a>, who explained his trips to kneel in the woods by saying that he was praying and sometimes visited by an angel (that's in case anyone asked why someone was seen leaving through the bushes). It is hard to know if Joe Smith was a moron or a mascot. He was prone to visual hullucinations and somehow became a preacher (something that mentally troubled people still do in the USA according to an episode of Lois Theroux). Joe Smith was taken as a mascot by people around him when he preached. After a while the person in the bushes gave a name - "The Angel Moroni". Most likely the angel was a printer who ate biscuits, because a present appeared in a buscuit tin burried under a tree, for Joe Smith to find. The box contained a book written on "plates", which I suppose were printing plates but described as "golden plates" by Joe. I expect that some are lost because there is no mention of cruising in the woods in the book of mormon, but there is some stuff about polygamy. <a href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Welfare_Services">The faith group does practical things as well as credulous ones</a>. It's rural. Current student reviews mention things like bowling clubs and long walks rather than politics. They don't note many alumni on wikipedia - just one beat poet and members of sports teams used to fill the gap. Fishman got two years' work at Idaho before completing his second degree, still awarded by <a href="http://oskicat.berkeley.edu/record=b12462809~S1">Berkley and listed on their library catalogue</a> in January 1957. It's called <i>"Theories of the American Labor Movement":</i> 500 pages exactly, plus 11 pages of bibliography, with other subject categories of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Commons">John Rogers Commons</a> (1862-1945), <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Hoxie">Robert F Hoxie</a> (1868-1916), and <a href="http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.c2931910">someone has scanned the microfilm to put online</a> but been restricted from doing so beyond a keyword count from a search box; the Berkley catalogue calls it "restricted content". If any Fishman relatives want to contact Hathi Trust, who keep the scanned archive, and make a case that they are the copywrite holder and give permission to publish, that would be good. Fishman's 12 year-old daughter asked him if he was a member of the communist party: <i>"I don't believe you have the right to ask me that question. I have a constitutional right to freedom of association",</i> he replied. Nowadays the position would be called <i>"Don't ask; don't tell"</i>. He had relatives in the Soviet Union and wouldn't want to draw soviet police attention to them, nor US authorities to himself. He had fellow-travellors like <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/dec/20/fbi-spied-on-pete-seeger-20-years-communist-links">Pete Seeger</a>, the singer he's quoted as liking, who were called to Senate committees and used the same stock phrase; he would not have wanted to let them down either, even if he had lost all interest in political groups and preferred the saner technocratic world of economics. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
The same year that Fishman got his doctorate, the local paper stated that he was leaving for Colorado and he was invited to speak on a similar subject at Cornell University, as part of a series of lectures commemorating <a href="http://shifter-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/thorstein-veblen-the-theory-of-the-leisure-class.pdf">Thorsten Veblen's free pdf</a> and <a href="http://www.efm.bris.ac.uk/het/index.htm">other works</a>. There are 11 books on Veblen in the Idaho college libary, mostly from the 40s and 50s, but not the one that gave space to Fishman and edited by Douglas Dowd of Berkley and Cornell Universities, now at <a href="http://www.dougdowd.org/">Dugdowd.org</a> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Douglas Fitzgerald Dowd (born December 7, 1919) is an American political economist, economic historian and political activist.</i> <i>From the late 1940s to the late 1990s, he taught at Cornell University, UC Berkeley and other universities. He has authored books that criticise capitalism in general, and US capitalism in particular.</i> <i>Now in his eighties and semi retired, he continues to publish and has, for many years, offered a free class in San Francisco, where he used to live for half of the year. Now he lives full-time in Bologna. His last professorial engagement was several years at the University of Modena. Finally, the commute from Bologna became oppressive; he terminated his teaching career in 2012. - <a href="http://www.dougdowd.org/">Dugdowd.org</a> web site</i></blockquote>
Douglas Dowd gave <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Fitzgerald_Dowd">free economics classes in San Francisco</a> and <a href="http://www.dougdowd.org/index.php">still keeps-up the DugDowd.org website</a> including a $10.95 download offer on the book with Fishman's chapter. <span class="st"><i>D. F. Dowd</i> (ed.), <i>Thorstein Veblen: A Critical Reappraisal</i> (Ithaca NY, <i>1958</i>), subtitled</span> <span class="st"><i>lectures and essays commemorating the hundredth anniversary of Veblen's birth</i>. Fishman's chapter was called</span> <i>Veblen, Hoxie, and American labor.</i> That association seems to be what gave Fishman the sparkle-dust to look employable again. Someone sent an invite to Cornell lectures to the <a href="http://cdsun.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/cornell?a=d&d=CDS19571031-01.2.15&e=--------20--1-----all----"><i>Cornell Daily Sun</i></a> who didn't send a reporter but published the invite next to their adverts for smart underwear and horror films. Somehow, the invite records Fishman as already a professor at Colorado University who printed the publication in a proud book of staff writings soon after. The lucky break remained a family memory. A colleague of Fishman's daughter mentioned Veblen to her. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Oh, my dad [the late Professor Les Fishman, Marxist economist] was very interested in Veblen, he contributed to a volume of essays on Veblen back in the 1950s"</i>. <i>"With the help of the indispensable Abebooks I located a lone copy of "Thorstein Veblen: A Critical Reappraisal" (Cornell University 1958) and was astonished by the profundity of his ideas, briefly revisited by a few American Leftists in the 1950s and then dropped almost without trace." - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings_17.html">link to Fishman's chapter</a></i></blockquote>
That essay seems to be the only thing that Fishman wrote before a gilded career as a highly-paid teacher who avoided tutorials; it was a done deal. Keele teachers know how hard it is to look employable when you can't publish anything, and you can't publish anything because your job is to teach the basics, so a published work made a difference. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">He wrote a little more over time, when he was new in a job or when someone asked him to co-write. There's a collection of Fishman writings on another page.</a></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">University of Boulder, Colorado 1958-62</span> </h4>
Fishman got an economics job teaching at his home state college of Boulder, Colorado. I think I saw a Google snippet of him recorded as an assistant professor in 1957 but am not sure. A <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/econ/news/50th_anniversary/Econ%2050th%20Slide%20Show.pdf">powerpoint promotion of the department</a> puts him down as "faculty" for 1956-7. He was recorded as chairing a meeting there and working for the economics department in 1959 as part of a <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/cwa/archives/programs/1959.pdf">grand set of debates on all subjects.</a> He signed himself "Leslie Fishman, University of Colorado" when writing for technical journals. So I guess he was there in the background, giving lectures, assigned to research projects, maybe supervising graduate students, allowed to take a temping job on Ford Scholarship money, but not obvious and up-close to undergraduate students, leaving the dates a little hazey.<br />
<br />
Samuelson's new textbook from 1948 was so confident in its own superiority that (I think - I might be wrong) it suggested a course plan in an appendix for lesser professors to follow in this expanding subject, as though there was a shortage of professors and the people who got the job were all glad of a text-book to bluff from. I knew that there was a Great War an Great Depression but I didn't know there was a Great Professor Shortage at just the time Fishman qualified: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>the demand for professors was so high in the 1950s that the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_of_Learned_Societies" title="American Council of Learned Societies">American Council of Learned Societies</a> held a conference in Cuba noting the too-few doctoral candidates to fill positions in English departments.</i></blockquote>
The shortage would have been most acute in new subjects. Pocetello began teaching for degrees and for Economics about the year Fishman joined; Boulder gave its economics teachers a separate department and larger building for more student numbers about the time Fishman joined. Even so, it's good to get called "Professor" after teaching the jobs available to graduate <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjBuMpZXtfBnKLSVwRZePHwzbfIjZxzb7PPiXrN5C-VLD7HC4_IsmzJa4Ge7SK8c5y_5TU1qkt0Fn7Kqw52IPS-ifSA2FGHWoYGZwYUdyFL84F9B0_hipwi6OXSlXZbe9EoXVwpWg8hqo4R/s1600/temp2.gif" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjBuMpZXtfBnKLSVwRZePHwzbfIjZxzb7PPiXrN5C-VLD7HC4_IsmzJa4Ge7SK8c5y_5TU1qkt0Fn7Kqw52IPS-ifSA2FGHWoYGZwYUdyFL84F9B0_hipwi6OXSlXZbe9EoXVwpWg8hqo4R/s1600/temp2.gif" /></a>students. Professors get a double cell and someone to use as their bitch in the gulag under the campus (someone told me that and then gave me a funny look). It is not easy to compare to academic job prospects now. <a href="https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/highereducationlecturer.aspx">Usually you have to do something</a> like teaching well, writing well, having another relevant career so you can say how things are done, being part of the Freemasons or the casting couch. In Fishman's case it wasn't the casting couch so the next thing to check his writing on Google Scholar's links to Jstor journal library. He taught about economic history leading up to current US growth rates, or at least he had the notes to hand because he worked them up into nearly <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">5,900 words 1960</a>. It was quite a polished set of lecture notes, published in a journal for long articles. The paper would not have scored good marks on Fishman's own course, later-on at Keele, because it mentions original ideas in the final section which would have been marked wrong, but this is a tolerant journal. Another paper is titled "Is Higher Education a Hoax?". Then <i>Econometrica</i> reported him at the American Economic Society conference held in Stillwater, Oklahoma, in 1961. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgipkIf1uY">Fishman's name just has an asterisk next to it</a>. He was given the last slot on a Tuesday afternoon to present his paper, after some grander macro-economics and a someone who loved algebra. Someone else who write about elasticity of demand for synthetic rubber got an asterisk too. Maybe their paper was too practical and immediate. Most people might have liked them; Idaho students might have liked them. They might have got published an Ebay Seller Guide or a piece in Plastics and Rubber Weekly, but they didn't get journal ranking peer-reviewed journals. The rule is: either you discover sacred texts buried under a tree in a biscuit tin, or you get published in a peer-reviewed journal if you want a college teaching job. I hope that he and the synthetic rubber person consoled each other. It was no problem because Fishman could do grand prose about economic history, he could keep an audience's attention in a lecture hall, and he could work on technical government jobs. The problem that would come-up was tutorials. He could tell his daughter that "I have the right to freedom of association", but it could break the flow of discussion if students asked him the same thing every week. If it was possible to be a professor and not do tutorials, Fishman had a good reason to avoid them. The Ford Foundation temp. job at Cambridge came very soon after getting work at Boulder. This suggests that economics college teachers were in demand, that Fishman had a certain knack, and that tutorials were not a big deal at Boulder; you wouldn't plan to jet-set around the world and leave a UK tutorial group with a new teacher. Keele students know that most UK colleges have three terms a year and most US ones have two, so the dates wouldn't have fitted. That's a pity for Fishman and his students because he missed the satisfaction by knowing what happened to them during a year and he missed their common sense and mess-ups and obvious questions. I guess that tutorial students can bring an economics tutor down to earth. I guess that this post-war anglo-american subject of economics lacks common sense because so many people have taught it without running tutorials. Fishman's daughter says he was "headhunted" to Boulder and "won" a Ford Foundation grant to do something at Cambridge. Was it the Freemasons? In a way, yes. This is someone else's account of being offered a chance to teach at Boulder. He discovers the american emphasis on lectures. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Les Fishman, visiting from the University of Colorado, received an SOS from back home: An economic historian was urgently needed for 1963–64, as the incumbent had gone off unexpectedly to Penn State. Now economist economic historians weren’t all that many in Cambridge, so the barrel was scraped and I was offered a visiting professorship at Boulder, where I had a very enjoyable two semesters, and learnt how to lecture. I must have been pretty awful to begin with. One of my auditors, whom I later met a few times on the ski slopes, asked after a few beers in the Nederland Tavern: ‘Are all English lecturers so boring?’ I’m sure he had a point; but I was learning, and when I went to teach summer school at Purdue my audience ratings were quite respectable.</i></blockquote>
I expected to read another paragraph saying that this man was keen on US Civil Rights or Communism or against the Vietnam war, but the freemasonry seems to be more among a narrow group of teachers who gave each other jobs - the same man says he was put on some committee as a <i>"counterweight to the ... marxist faction"</i>, which would mean people who used a one or two ideas from Marx to find something easy to say about their subject, rather than someone who supported Stalin. So, there was a freemasonary among people who could vaguely look as though they could do the job during The Great Professor Shortage of the 1960s and somehow Fishman had joined it. It would be nice to think that Fishman promoted the new job by offering free taster classes on free-thinking subjects, like Douglas Dowd. Or open-ended discussions, like the teach-ins at Berkley. There was a series of odd multi-subject lectures from visitors during United Nations Week each year, followed by questions from the audience or debate with other guest speakers. Records don't say anything about student discussions, nor tutorials. If there were any on the timetable, it would have been hard to fit them round Fishman's schedule as he jumped from Boulder to Cambridge, back to Boulder, then on to Warwick University for a year's teaching in 1967. That might have been the first place that anyone noticed whether he could hold a tutorial or not. Fishman headed the list of authors for research on government contract: "Methodology for projection of occupational trends in the Denver standard metropolitan statistical area". There is a free pdf of the 1965 edition and the <a href="http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED017641.pdf">1966 revision</a>. Fishman was remembered by some civil rights acquaintances who used his free hospitality on their way to a campaign. They quote his slow goofy diction. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"we looked up Les Fishman (economics professor at the University of Colorado) .... They put us up for the night and then we toured the campus the next day." </i></blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Fishman's first observation was the lack of ability on the part of the students to grasp ideas from a textbook. In a way, he has to spoon feed the text, but on the other hand, they won't do any permanent good if they can't develop a little independent thinking among the students". [...] "The bookstore carried practically nothing but textbooks; only Gandhi's autobiography and five or six other paperbacks were available." ... "library ... inadequate ... donated stock".</i></blockquote>
In 1962, Fishman wrote <i>"An economic plan for disarmament"</i> for the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Mar 01, 1962; Vol. 18, No. 3, p. 37-38, listed on one of <a href="http://www.keele.ac.uk/library/">Keele library</a>'s two on-line catalogues, although it only made it onto one of them. The title is a bit of a joke; it's a political journal and might have prompted the idea of a "keele list" of a hierachy of academic journals used to sort the next job applicants to be economics professor. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>In 1962, he won a Ford Foundation fellowship to work with Nicholas Kaldor in the applied economics department at Cambridge. He returned to England as senior economics lecturer at Warwick University (1967-69) before becoming professor at Keele. - obituary by Nina Fishman</i></blockquote>
Minority staff are often expected to be better at their jobs than people who get a job by fluke and serve their time; this quote about a philosophy teacher at Colorado backs-up Fishman's daughter's story that he got an unfair dismissal because of his politics, rather than spoon-feeding the text of Samuelson's text book, which he should have been sacked for. There was also the summons to a Senate Committee reported as before Senator Todd, headlined "professers answer red tinge" in the local paper, which sent a photographer. The photo might show here or from the link, and it's worth clicking on the link if Getty Images don't want it to show, because it illustrates how a large group of teaching economists were subject to control from their bosses and from Congress Committees, and how the same kind of thing probably happens in lots of other colleges and schools and countries, off and on, so that the textbook view of an economics course, for sale all over, becomes different from the student expectation of an economics course in a particular country and decade.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="getty embed image" style="background-color: white; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-family: roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; max-width: 425px; width: 100%;">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/162033207" style="border: none; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">Embed from Getty Images</a></div>
</div>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
They told him that Fishman is the bald one at the front who looks like Phillip Larkin, but from my studies I know that Fishman is the one in tweed and serious specs at the back. The one trying to look like he's just come over from the UK to read the weather forecast. Howard Higman is the one in the middle. I don't know how to look-up the report to the US Senate Subcommittee that these professors were summoned to rebut. If anyone knows the link I hope they can add it as a comment to this blog post. <br />
<br />
<br />
Fishman might have been summoned by mistake. <a href="http://peoplesworld.org/al-fishman-michigan-peace-and-justice-champion-dies-at-8/">Al Fishman</a>, who shared some political interests, was an activist who criticised Senator Todd, but not a college teacher; Les Fishman was the Economics professor who the Colorado state university kept in the background on research projects and organising committees and encouraged to go to the UK. There were no further summonses and Senator Todd dropped-out of politics a few years later. The next piece of work was a report for the defence department on the re-employment of defence workers, published in 1968. It combined research from three different tyre companies and their redundant staff, and was written by a team headed by Fishman when he was not in the UK. There's a copy in an archive at Warwick Uni library. The archive at Warwick there records <a href="http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31444229">plans of a statistics laboratory from 1965</a> and a folder of press releases about 1968 states that it opened. This would have been a new generation of computers with reel-to-reel tape recorders and punched paper instead of punched cards in racks. They would have had teletype keyboards and the odd cathode ray screen. Fishman never mentions a computer again. Maybe he spilt coffee on it and was barred for life. Academics were asked to write something in honour of Les Fishman for the launch of the Fishman Bursary. There isn't much to go-on. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">I've put together what I can find on another page</a>. One claimed to have found a good Fishman article from 1967 but doesn't give a reference. Maybe it was his inaugural lecture at Keele Uni, bound together with something similar and called "The Interconnected Economy" at £14.95 on Amazon. The paper referred-to is on the effects on the US economy of ending the Vietnam War, which I guess was something that genuinely interested Fishman after serving in the forces himself in the 1940s and then coming-out against war in the 1960s. I guess the same interest drew him to survey redundant tyre workers, to demonstrate how much the US economy could adjust to loss of military work. In 1969 someone from Warwick Uni in the UK tried <a href="http://cwww.communauto.com/images/03.coupures_de_presse/FishmannWabe1969.pdf">co-writing something about council car clubs with him</a> . I expect he added the algebra and co-operated on thoughts about how average costs of a car are lost to those who buy one and use it anyway. I can't remember him using phrases like "community centre" that come-up in the text. You need a special depressed tone of voice to say "community centre"; Fishman's style was more a style of pretended previous thought. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">1969-88: Leslie Fishman's bottom gets a job at Keele University</span> </h4>
Somehow, Fishman bluffed his way into a short period at Warwick Uni. where he lasted two years and then looked employable when applying to set-up a department at Keele under the constraint of having less than half a students' time and taking subject-switchers after their foundation year. Someone has written a history of Keele which says that a lot of applicants turned-down jobs like this when they realised what they'd applied-for. It was a job that would only attract someone who needed a job, someone who had always wanted to be a professor, and someone with a miraculous ability to look like an academic star rather than any ordinary job applicant who might have taught A-level at the college over the road and done the job a lot better. Fishman was all three, or all four - he had taught at a college for teenages in Idaho but it was supposed to be a degree course. He had also met the big names of American nerdy cold-war untrue economics and read their journals, he loved being a professor and he badly needed a job. He was also named as someone who did some work for Colorado State getting employment statistics while at Colorado State University and considered not safe to leave near students, and he should have had experience with computer stats. A memorial lecture states that he wrote a good article about the economic costs of Vietnam, which was not published on any of the sites listed by Jstor - maybe it wasn't published at all. Fishman's experience was a McJob at UCLA Berkley cramming students for a business administration course, two years at a college for older teenagers that started running the odd degree course (A-level in UK terms), a period based at Colorado of which two years are now remembered of him teaching, and two years at Warwick University. So he had a knack of holding down teaching jobs for two years, but not for applying for jobs; they had often been offered to him alongside government research contracts and a fellowship to do something-or-other at Oxford. His first permenant job had been one that not many other people would apply for, and Keele was similar because of the constraints of teaching such a compact course. A good applicant would offer a solution, nowadays under The Consumer Rights Act <a href="http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2015/ukpga_201515_en_1.html#section-49">#49: "with reasonable care and skill</a> <span style="color: purple;"></span> The solution would be to recognise previous student work at A-level and somehow build it into the degree course; to take advantage of the students' bredth of study by offerning inter-departmental courses and tutorials to extract students' broad ideas, and to teach computing in order to condense the statistics part of a standard course. Fishman had the experience to share courses with the American Studies department and Industrial Relations department. He had computer stats experience. Warwick Uni had just set-up a statistics lab in the new digital computer style, with videos to train anybody who was interested in how to use the software. Fishman in his streak of good luck had studied punched-cards and tables of correlated data based on obscure Fortran program's interpretations of them at University of Boulder, Colorado. If he had wanted to do his job and learn the next generation of technology, he could have done so. He had the access pass. He could just walk-in. On the other hand there was nobody in a stats lab to do the work for him; he would have to take unpaid time and initiative and learn a new skill if he wanted to use computers. He chose not to. Fishman had less experience running tutorials, which was a pity in the UK system where they are normal, and when teaching students on broad courses who have ideas from other departments. He could have learned the knack, but he chose not to, and nobody noticed. Fishman even got away without doing tutorials or learning to type on the office computer by the time I was there nineteen years later. This was the time of Educating Rita. Academics were in short supply. Failings could be blamed on the stupidity of un-schooled local students who, in turn, did not know what to expect because their parents hadn't done similar courses. It was possible to get through meetings with peer-review people from other colleges, because their courses were and are probably awful too. In 1975 someone co-wrote a journal article: <a href="https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=75034"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Defendant Sentences as a Function of Attractiveness and Justification for Actions</span></a> <br />
<br />
<div class="hd hasAbstract">
<div class="gutter">
<h2>
</h2>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="last">
<i>In a test of the hypotheses that ... (a) defendants who have high external justification for their behaviour would be sentenced less severely than defendants with low external justification and (b) an attractive defendant with low external justification would be sentenced more severely than an unattractive defendant, ... 60 American college students were randomly assigned without regard to sex to one of four treatments generated by two types of defendant descriptions (attractive vs. unattractive) and by two levels of defendant external justification (high vs. low: i.e., unspecified). Results confirmed both the predicted main effect for external justification (p < .05) and the defendant characteristics by external justification interaction (p < .05). Attractive defendants, therefore, were not inevitably treated more leniently than unattractive defendants.</i></div>
</blockquote>
The next twenty years were spent on an economic experiment. How long can economics teachers avoid the sullen stares of subject-mixing students who know how badly economics is taught compared to other subjects? Subject mixing was new to the UK. The better reasons for sullen stares are still not clear to economists, so they were probably less clear then. In 1984 a member of staff wrote a sane textbook, covering the subjects that economics students might want to study, and Les Fishman is thanked in the acknowledgements for reading a draft, as are students from the author's tutorial group at the time, but Fishman continued to teach what he thought he had to teach - <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree"</i>, was his phrase, as though he knew. <i>"This stuff"</i> was macro-economics from his memories of the Samualson textbook using excerpts from something more modern like <i>Begg</i>, micro-economics from <i>Laidler</i>, and two hours a week of manual statistics. The bits in <i>Begg</i> that said that the traditional bits were untrue were left-out. There was another textbook Fishman knew about and probably had on his office shelf, next to the un-read sales brochures for <a href="http://www.reading.ac.uk/ssc/resourcepage/instat.php">Instat software</a>. The book is <a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2012/09/which-economic-crisis/" title="The essence of the problem Smith diagnosed was the weakness of manufacturing, and the absence of consistent R&D spending and investment – written against the backdrop of the North Sea Oil-driven rise in the exchange rate, which savaged export and industrial output in the early 80s. He also picks out other contributing problems such as the inadequate education and training of the UK workforce, the over-reliance on financial services and the failings of the welfare state. His conclusion: “Sustainable improvement in British economic performance can only happen through a thorough-going reconstruction of the ‘supply side’ of the British economy.” In the 1990s we thought the Thatcher governments had tackled the supply side problems through privatisations, labour market reforms, and deregulation. But it would be hard, in the 2010s, to take any more cheerful a view of the country’s economic potential than Prof Smith did 30 years ago.">still mentioned as a classic</a> and covers the subjects I thought I had signed-up to study when I began an economics course, but was not allowed to study. The link is to a transcript free to read online. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS ix INTRODUCTION II <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">PART ONE: THE CRISIS I. THE CRISIS BEHIND THE RECESSION 17 2. GROWTH AND TRADE - COMPONENTS OF THE CRISIS 37 3. THE LONG DECLINE 55 4. THE POST-WAR BOOM 78 5. THE CRISIS IN PROSPECT 98</a> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">PART TWO: THE ECONOMISTS</a> </h4>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">INTRODUCTION 113 6. FREE MARKETS AND MONETARISM 116 7. MARKET ECONOMICS AND ECONOMIC POLICY 135 8. KEYNES AND INTERVENTION 154 9. REWRITING KEYNES: VARIATIONS ON THE GENERAL THEORY 166</a> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">PART THREE: WAYS OUT?</a> </h4>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">10. WHAT WENT WRONG? 187 11. INDUSTRIAL RECOVERY: THE POLICY PROBLEMS 201 12. BEHIND THE JAPANESE MIRACLE 213 13. RECOVERY 234 REFERENCES 241 INDEX 245</a> Nobody - not even external examiners - asked questions of the main course like <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Your prospectus has a lot about "Quantitative Methods". Methods of what?<br />
</li>
<li>For 19 years you have pretended that computers don't exist in your stats teaching. That's a deliberate scam isn't it? There's no other word for it is there? Your secretary has Supercalc stats functions on this computer. Did you know that? Do you know how to turn it on? Do you have a computer in the department library? No? What do you have? Those ones for one exercise - really? So why do you still teach manual computing for two hours a week and keep Supercalc in the office?<br />
</li>
<li>What was that workbook with examples about broiler chickens? You mean they have "recitations" in US college courses? What's this thing you call a "class"? Really?<br />
</li>
<li>There are about 4 million people unemployed. Unemployment is the subject of your published books. Why do you think there are 4 million people unemployed? Why do you think so many factories have closed?<br />
</li>
<li>What do your students think of the course? Apart from showing they like it by passing the exam? Is that all you know about them? Can we see the exam scripts. Take this one: do you know the person's name? Anyone? So you don't remember them from tutorials? You mean you don't do tutorials? In that case, can you line them up outside your office door so we can see them? You mean they went home early? Do you know what any of them are doing next? None? Get some back for a Viva.<br />
</li>
<li>Who is the prime minister? What floor are we on? Can you count back in 7s ?<br />
</li>
</ul>
I doubt they asked that last question because in 1987 an economics degree course that taught theories in case anyone thinks of a use for them was quite normal, as it is now. The people who wrote the Levacic and Rebmann textbooks had held-down jobs at Open University and Middlesex Uni. Teachers don't start from relevant problems and find skills to solve those problems; it worked the other way around. Like teaching Latin and Greel in Victorean schools. There was a surplus of people with useless skills, so they were easy to hire as teachers, so a subject was taught even more to the next generation. The next person to get the Keele job was an expert in a new thing called "game theory" with a CV about studying maths. Fishman may have been a real person in the 1950s for real reasons but I don't remember him teaching in any useful way. I remember he had a good style and looked like a father figure to some people. He talked with glee. <a href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0061bf" title="My Prof at Keele University was American. Les Fishman. Never taught us any economics but would regale us with cracking yarns at every lecture or tutorial. Anyway he told us how he had first arrived in the UK and was driving round on a hot Summer's day exploring. Alighting at a pub and dying of thirst he was shocked to be handed a warm pint. He complained but was told that was the way to drink it - it had more taste. And you know, said Fishman, with a gleam of pleasure in his eyes and a glance at his watch to confirm that lunchtime was almost upon us, She was right - it does taste better - it took me a few pints to work it out - but by golly it does taste good - and now - you British - you're selling out to these lagers and cold beer - aaah! and he waved his arms hopelessly in front of himself and hurried off to the Sneyd Arms in the centre of Keele. :-)
-- Anonymous, August 10, 2001">He liked to interrupt his own slow drawl with an anecdote</a>. He professed how V-neck jumpers came-out in better colours every year. He professed that market researchers sliced data in different ways to get over-precise results, for example at Ford. He mentioned the Ford Motor Company of Detroit a few times, so I think he'd read a book about it or something. He stopped talking half-way through a micro-economics workbook example sentence - about Broiler chickens and marginal cost - because, as he explained, it was five o'clock. He professed that as you get older you find that nothing works quite so well. He professed that as a governor you need to maintain defence and after that comes welfare. He showed a bit of glee at discovering a Nigerian economics text book. He professed that Wedgwood had left the potters trade association, leading to rising sales costs for the other big potter companies. That's about all I remember because he did not hold the tutorials or provide the feedback to students as reasonably expected to do for high payment payment of salary from my taxes, I believe. Fishman interrupted a macro-economics revision lecture to say <i>"we have to teach this stuff to call this an economics degree course in less than half your time"</i>. A lecture about the ISLM model of demand management in a closed economy. Fishman did not seem a real person in the way he taught economics in the 1980s. His 1950s Samuelson textbooks had not mentioned anything interesting about unemployment, so he didn't in 1984. By the last year in his career he used an A-level textbook called Begg which tried to add notes about current affairs and up to date research. He didn't tell us about them; they weren't in the exam. His colleagues pushed a bit into the course about differing ways to measure unemployment, which was controversial at the time, but I don't remember a single word from Fishman. He was on his last year of work. He could take phone calls in his seminars. He could have taught us that snails ran the universe to see if us exam-flunkers showed any interest in our sullen stares but no. He did not say a word about catastrophic economic policies that effected all the rest of us in the room. I hope some keen historian dredges-up the archives about this man to find-out how to stop the mistake happening again, because the problem is so much like the problem of people going to Oxford or Cambridge and studying PPE and then going-on to cause unhappiness from bad economics. It's a problem of people, on compacted economics courses that nobody much remembers, learning bad habits. <br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Economics teaching before student feedback - extra question for Keele: A recession caused by bad economists has wrecked a chunk of the economy, along with students' job prospects and those of their parents. £32,720 of tax money was paid to this economics department to research what happened next; how people got jobs if it all. The teacher doesn't mention a word about this. He doesn't run a course based on his research; he doesn't ask students to swap ideas about jobs. He doesn't give a lecture about whatever the £32,720 of tax money paid-for. Is this OK?</span> <span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Words fail me</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">1. Careers</span></span> </h3>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;">
<div style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;">
<div style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;">
<img alt="Implausible but pretty diagram showing how much more graduates earn compared to how much they loose while studying" border="0" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg2WtlS6Ylk5xrUS9zfrglO2QMmW7e4ozBqmNP1shz5Gi-3MEV9GeksRigCohfg8utzLF1Khl_wlCnED1RKmJUWEfg3dr-_7cx0hGHtvl7Dhb1ozSqn2APg-KNFEnSBP9GjeKbfrd2hJ_Os/s400/temp.jpg" title="" width="320" /></div>
<strike><i>"You haven't provided an economics course"</i></strike> was a sentence that through my head as I realised the situation, looking at this man who had ripped me off for years. I had finished a degree course, gone home to my parents with no job prospects, trying to make sense of job adverts in <i>The Times</i> and <i>The Observer</i>. I gave-up on those papers when I saw an add for <i>"experienced sales manager to re-launch Shipham's Paste".</i><br />
<br />
There was a system for introducing nervous graduates, with no work experience, to employers who needed graduates at least for a low-pay-short-tern trial like paid internships. It was a system to suit a time of high employment and low education, just like the rest of the university system, and it was done by employers. They would ask to set-up a stall at each university just after graduation and make themselves known. A speech by Emma Thornbury MP, who must be the same age as me, said that it didn't happen at her plate glass university in the early 80s, and about the same was true at Keele. A few very specialised employers turned-up to make themselves known. I knew nothing abour career-paths, but I spotted ICL, looking to flog an overpriced computer more than to hire. I remembered that I once wanted to be an industrial designer and asked if they ever hired designers. The reps paused. "no", they agreed. And in London there was a Gradute Carees Show at the Business Design Centre. Very similar except much bigger, and they confirmed what Keele's Appointments and Counselling office had told me. The only non-specialised job on offer was for Burger King, looking for management-type recruits. <b><b> Then economics students were called back for something called "Vivas". I made the 160 mile trip back to Keele Campus and stood again among all the students I'd never got to know in the economics bit of corridor. A door opened about a foot, and someone inside said <i>"No Vivas"</i>. The door closed. Elvis had left the building. That's where an economics degree ends. Wondering around the empty campus, I was surprised to see the man himself, and he looked surprised to see me. I may have been one of the last students he spoke to before retirement, straight out of his third year teaching group. That was a nice thing about 1980s teaching compared to what happened later: <i>"a teacher ... previously had a clear idea of how any one particular course fitted within a departmental degree programme, why students were taking it and what their background was, a module now assembled a random collection of students for the duration of that module, who then continued along separate paths after it had ended" - <a href="https://www.academia.edu/7264841/The_Modern_Economics_Curriculum">Tribe 2014</a></i> .Third year tutors were the ones who students remember, I guess. Courses were longer, and done in sequence, which seems sensible. This was the third time Fishman ever tried to speak to me. It was something like <i>"Let me see: how are you getting on?".</i> I was a surprised 22 year-old. I was surprised at his lack of shame. I wanted to say <i>"you haven't provided an economics course", </i>but the habit of caution stopped me. He was a surprised 64 year-old, unsure what my name was, so he asked <i>"have you got any plans?", </i>as he might ask on the <i>Titanic, </i>as the deck titlted. I just said <i>"OK, thanks"</i>, and walked-on to voluntary work, self-taught job searching skills and two years on benefits. <a href="https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2016/08/09/are-there-any-senior-civil-servants-with-a-working-class-background/">Someone else from Keele has done a blog post about what happened next</a>. I didn't have a chance to put the higher edication economics-trade in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at them, nor the nutter vice-chancellor who phoned-up half way through a class. Officially, this hopless new Vice Chancellor qualified for the job after teaching physics. It was a hard CV to check because he taught in Switzerland, but I expect it was true. If he were good at his job, he could have asked whether economics teaching at Keele was anything like Nuffield Physics A-level, a course based on observation. Unfortunately, he did not. I think I heard the phone call. Officially, there was a visiting Chancellor who was meant to give an outsider's view. His background was in the government statistics office. If he were competant, he would have given a lecture to economics students about the government statistics in the civil service. He did not. Maybe he was ashaimed. Or donate a personal computer. Or, if you want to go to the other extreme and get a bit far-fetched, make a major contribution to academic life. <br />
<br />
</b></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b><b><i>Claus Moser is a statistician who has made major contributions in academic life and in the Civil Service ... He has a wide variety of other honours to his name</i> - Keele web site explaining the Clous Moser Research Centre</b></b></blockquote>
<b><b>Unfortunately, Clouse Moser did make any contribution to academic life that I remember from Keele - whether giving a lecture or donating a PC. His only contribution was to be chancellor at a time when a dud vice-chancellor was appointed. Vice Chancelor is the fullt-ime linchipin chiefey kind of job I think.Officially, there was a senate of staff who might know each other enough to want to turn-up to senate meetings, getting to know each other over free shared meals and use of a club-like room in the old building. A senate prone to the faults of people in meetings, but well-informed and good if matched against something like a market for student places in which students choose the best courses based on available information. That didn't happen. And there was something called a council like the House of Lords to overide it anyway. To give the senate credit, the <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/keele-the-first-fifty-years-a-portrait-of-the-university-1950-2000/oclc/46601427">Keele history book</a> says that the senate invited student reps to speak about courses and syllabuses, which was a great idea but in need of a lot of surveys and market pressure. There was someone called an Education and Welfare Officer (an unpaid student) who went-on to write <a href="http://www.priceoffish.info/">The Price of Fish</a>, writes an obscure blog to promote his job, and published some letter from Fishman that mentioned a speech about the economics course. Unfortunately, the new Vice Chancellor reduced Senate meetings to very few and turned the club-like meal room into a wedding venue. Officially, Keele was set-up to reduce the problem of technocrats like monetarist economists who lack self-criticism and broad education. It's all set-out in the first few chapters of <i>Keele - the first 50 years</i>. So there should have been a lot of general education among other students on the course, who might have added a bit of common sense, and kept it related to the real economy. Unfortunately, the new Vice Chancellor discouraged subject-mixing, if early archived web pages from 1997 are anything to go by. They show students encouraged to study similar subjects, like Economics and Finance, managed by a maths professor who liked game theory. Really - I'm not making this up, it's on web.archive.org <i>"By the later 1990s teaching loads were increasing, and when added to the routinisation of teaching associated with modularisation, the departmental response was to cut back and consolidate teaching on a textbook-based format. The possibility of designing and developing interesting courses no longer existed at Keele, and so I left university teaching. ... I found a second, and far more satisfying, career as a rowing coach" - <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">keithtribe.co.uk/teaching</a></i> The other tutor who taught interesting courses in the 80s <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith">no longer mentions Keele on his CV</a>. Officially, I guess there would have been some system of external examiners from other colleges who got their moment of power by checking Keele. Maybe that was the reason for students being called back for non-existent Vivas: external examinors wanted to check that these students really did exist and were not just names made-up for the grant money. A fault with this system is that the bad ideas of one economics department can be imposed on another. Economists are trained in tautologies like <i>"economics is ..."</i> which could have prompted Fishman's quote <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics course"</i>. Maybe the bad ideas came from external examiners. I didn't realise that this department with extremes of good and bad was not the worst; all the later discoveries about Fishman's dad being a Menchavik from Russia with furniture manufacturing interests, and Fishman being an exile from bad teaching in the USA, were not the main point even if I had known them. Other people on other economics courses found their teachers just as bad as the ones who advised government on how to put our dads out of work; most economists were as bad as Fishman. This is a slightly complicated sentence but you get the drift. <span style="color: #073763;">When my father's business failed because of negligent pompous economists and evil newspaper proprietors spouting lies, he tried working as a tradesman mending sash cord windows, and going for hard-to-fill jobs at job agencies in West London. Like Les Fishman, he wore old tweed jackets and V-necks over shirts and ties, and had become become a pleasant cartoon character in the way he spoke to people. He couldn't learn new tricks like how to use the new <a href="http://oysterbaysystems.co.uk/index.php/company/company-information/co-history">Oyster Bay MsDos software for HP Finance</a> when he was used to the sheet-metal accounting machine and the cards, but he could get the work done for him. My father's memory couldn't bring things to mind in a sharp way either; he tried working as a researcher with a debt collecting and detective agency in Brentford, and as credit controller for Bristol cars in Chiswick, then a taxi garage called Mann and Overton, but he didn't last long at any of them. He did find a job that suited him, teaching an adult education class how to research family history. There was a short free induction course for adult education teachers from the council, and as long as enough people turned-up he got paid. Familiy history courses are better than most economics courses because they teach students how to look things up for themselves. When he died, I should have sent obituaries to the big papers to say he'd been a towering academic just to see if any got published. My father also benefited from failure, as did all the MPs and newspaper proprietors and opinion-formers who lived in London. The industrial areas of the UK could provide fewer jobs. Property values therefore went-up in London as people migrated to find work and my dad had held-on to his house. Opinion-formers in London tended to think that Thatcher had done a good job; Tony Blair set-up a system for the Bank of England to carry-on a similar monetary policy, and the system still counts as sane among journalists MPs and economists.</span> Looking at accounts of Fishman's work, he stopped working a year earlier than my CV says, meaning that I was 21 and fiddled my CV later-on to conceal two years' unemployment. If he retired at age 64, and accounts differ about him retiring in 87 or 88, it may be that he got a salary for a year from Keele University. Fishman went-on to a funded survey of the experiences of redundant Michelin tyre workers, kept in touch with a few academic contacts, and would have had a final salary pension based on earnings over double the average wage. Like other economists, he got an obituary as a towering figure of reason and inspiration. Economics was an odd subject in presenting itself as an introduction to some technical career-enhancing skill, and in presenting opinions about unemployment to students as part of the syllabus. I never learned what that career-enhancing skill was meant to be, nor how the graphs untangle cause and effect. Take two shool leavers aged twenty-odd. One has an idea of a craft career like plastering or cab driving; how to get qualifications, who to meet to get jobs or how to apply, whether the work suits them. Later-on they might do other things that are better-paid again, and can be done while a bit less fit. The other twenty-odd school-leaver has an idea of another craft career like accountancy or law. Exactly the same applies. The only difference is that there are elements of craft qualifications built-in to some university degrees. You can do parts of your accountancy qualification at uni, or parts of a law society entrance qualification. Or not; I don't know which is better. Both these two twenty-odds are likely to have high pay at age 40. You could make-up stories about other 20-odds with less idea what could work for them or what they want to do. They're likely to be paid less at age 40, whether or not they go to college. In a recession, there are more of these stories than usual; there are areas with very few work or career options; there are parents who's experience is no longer any help, there are patterns of moving around the globe or living in institutions that separate students from ideas of what works for them. I think the idea that economics degrees are a good investment comes from US text books, speaking in effect to the parent who pays for a private higher education system at a time of conscription and a shortage of graduaets. One tutor quoted, as an example of how bizarre the Samuelson textbook was, the page on which it says there is no such thing as long-term involuntary unemployment; that's the kind of society the Samuelson textbook was written-for. <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s1600/scan213.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Postwar UK unemployment (excluding school leavers). Graph going off the top of the usual scale from textbook page 440" border="0" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg3007fsRSuE-vxiZF0aGC_dDWjHbTwUOaCXMx0FOOIf29JsdN0TegpM4L3036s1meU4tktAaNAgqmzWj_DCOZ_514AuERcCMd2NMnV2sVDVpvJnmQdUXyVqpPHROz8ISHQkfENohUFEBAd/s400/scan213.jpg" title="" width="337" /></a>The Begg textbook tries to be a bit more subtle but on the same theme. On page 254, figure 11.3, it suggests a bright future for graduates on a graph of average gross weekly earnings in 1980 prices for people with degrees, A-levels or no formal qualifications. If you read further to page 440 part 4, you'll see another hint about 1980s students' job prospects. The textbook does not relate one to the other. It is like an encylopedia, with unrelated things on different pages. And there was never any job called "Economist" for which a degree qualifies a student as a phamacy degree qualifies a student to be a pharmacist. There is no application of an orphan stats course and a load of undtrue theories. All if this is obvious on other courses like English or Politics. They don't qualify you do talk or vote. Economcis was unusual in presenting itself a bit like a phamacy course but in a more vague way, as though this repeated introductory information lead somewhere. Nothing suggests that an economics degree allows entry to a professional organisaton like the ones for pharmacy or accounting or the law society, with legal privilages to do certain jobs. But something along those lines is suggested by the boring technical nature of the course and the language used like <i>"introductory"</i>. <i>It takes many years to become a complete economist with a professional's grasp of the subject. Most of you probably have no wish to become professional economists ... the basic issues ... framework of analysis ... many of the conclusions, can be understood very quickly in an introductory course. Our emphasis on applications is designed to convicnce you that the economics you are learning is about the real world. It is not just a set of textbook excercises \- Begg Fischer and Dornbush, page xix "to the student" including A-level students</i>The biggest section of the Begg textbook is about something called microeconomics, usually without a context. The chapter headings suggest factor markets of land labour capital and something or-other; I think there are four. The next biggest section is something called "Macroeconomics" but really about demand management; it only has four pages about the supply side of the economy which clearly needed attention. Then you go to university to study the same thing with more algebra, and then it ends. Another difference between Economics degrees and English or other subjects is that the bigwigs of Economics careers help mess-up your career prospects with their obviously stupid ideas. You don't go through an English degree knowing that there is some professor of English somewhere who has advises the government on how to make 20,000 people a month redundant. The textbook doesn't apologise for this or say how many economists lie, or are taken too seriously for their own good because of a job title; it just says that there is normative and positive economics. One of them can include lying or being stupid; the other is more technical. The course doesn't get to the stage where you can argue back against bad economists on technical grounds, and, even if it did, a lot of the statistical data that would help you argue a case isn't released to the public. The revenue and customs act keeps it secret. There are no input-output tables for England. Unemployment data was counted in a different way from the mid 80s. At that time, even the treasury model of the UK economy was secret.</b></b></div>
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>As a result of my course, I believe that I have improved my career prospects.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> Good advice is available for making career choices. [ ] every part of my life was effected by government economic policies that closed a lot of the economy, except the macro economics section of the course that remained oblivious. So there were no prospects and no chances of talking about the reason why.</span></span></div>
<b><a href="http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b706?urlappend=%3Bseq=244">This is the kind of thing Professor Fishman wrote about job-seekers</a>.</b> <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<i>On the supply side, rationalizing the labor market requires considerable knowledge of actual labor supply coming on to the market, and that which will be coming-on during any transition period. The informational channels linking the supply and demand sides of the labor market are quite undeveloped, considering the sophistication of our industrial society. Employers and employees tend to be brought together largely through informal channels and one at a time.</i> <i>That is, one person is matched at a time with one job, The process today does not consider trying to make an optimum match of 1000 new job applicants with 1000 job openings. Instead, the applicants are sent, on at a time, to the highest job on their aspiration list, or on the job counselors list for which he matches them. The employer then ranks the applicants by some standards (educational, experience, or a aptitude tests), and will tend to take the highest from among the applicants. This permits premium employers to skim the cream off the labor market, or what they think is the cream, This certainly does not result in a maximum or optimum match from society's point of view. For such an optimum match, considerably more information is required, as well as sophisticated computer application.</i> <i>The final dimension of the labor market is the actual decision making by workers and employers to accept the terms of employment. The influences here reflect alternatives available to both parties, as well as such considerations as hardship, career aspirations, and geographic preferences.</i></blockquote>
<span style="color: red;"><b><span style="background-color: lime;"><Note to self> in twice - fits here quite well </note to self></span> There was no subject-specific career advice available, so far as I knew, but there was an anecdote. This is what Professor Fishman's economics department did. It summoned students all at once, back to the campus after exams in case there were extra interviews called <i>"vivas"</i> to hold.</b></span> In the last week or two of term, the only reason to stay at Keele was to collect a fancy printed degree certificate. There was a poster by the mail bins in the Students Union, implying that you needed to pay £25 to get a degree certificate. I guessed, rightly, that this was a bluff. The registry will confirm that I have a degree without payment. Some people stayed-on to collect their certificates at a PR ceremony in a local town - the sort of thing that's good to invite a granny to, but otherwise a bit daft and expensive. Most students had now left to become unemployed 20-somethings based all-over the UK, realising how little a Keele Economics degree prepared for anything else, and thinking of volunteer work in the two years' likely unemployment before Community Programme places were available. Life was not as the textbook said. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"students run-up overdrafts knowing that, as rich economists, they can pay ... back later". (Begg, p541 - not quite serious - the serious bit is on page 253 below).</i></blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj2mh9gqndFOOkU2jkEPfwt8uLSyiw6OG5xb-tpXGlfsbXtfFEVZwuvwEQB3lrbJYwrbr27O404pNG81_OqgzCXXxvNX2EZVAiDDv0SudpPYcWCIMwE9tFLE6-1di-03Rn8AaUrucU6YyW1/s1600/temp001.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj2mh9gqndFOOkU2jkEPfwt8uLSyiw6OG5xb-tpXGlfsbXtfFEVZwuvwEQB3lrbJYwrbr27O404pNG81_OqgzCXXxvNX2EZVAiDDv0SudpPYcWCIMwE9tFLE6-1di-03Rn8AaUrucU6YyW1/s1600/temp001.jpg" /></a></div>
The problem was that Fishman's generation of teachers had opposite career needs to my generation of students. They had to avoid being summoned to the McArthy and Todd Committees, as Fishmen eventually was, or having some excuse made-up to end their teaching career, as happened to other teachers at University of Colorado. It would be the same teaching in Turkey now. So they taught theory first, leading vaguely towards practical application that never happened. They taught at a distance from students, as though teaching a hard science rather than a social science. Some of them kept their careers and ordered lots of textbooks, maintaining the tradition of how the subject is taught. The colleges were funded by parents, so it helped to big-up the career advantages of going to college at a time when there were fewer of them. Students' career needs, I think, are for practice to come before theory and detirmine which theories are used. This is as true of someone who wants general knowledge and life experience, or someone who wants specific tips and tricks for a financial job. After being a student, any job seems bizarre and any capacity to do the job seems improbable. What did other people do? I don't know. There was a small appointments and counselling office at the college, but nothing specific to economics. At its peak the office once employed four people. That's embarassingly too many in a way, because people from the mining village, working under the campus, had no access nor equivalent service nor tax rebate. Then as now it was common to leave school at sixteen, so some people paid tax from the age of sixteen to twenty, knowing that other people were getting secondary schools and college places from the money. It was one of those un-stated issues that ecnomists had moved onto a separate subject of social policy rather than talk about. Thinking of the Appointments and Counselling office, it seemed rude to go-in and tease them by saying <i>"I do not know the rate of unemployment: can you break the news to me"?</i> I remember juke box regulars and empty disco favourites as Talking Heads <i>"Road to Nowhere"</i>, and Iggy Pop's <i>"Passenger"</i>. It was impossible to miss the pointlessness of going to the Appointments office. A last resort. So I went-in, to ask what other people did. The reply was that graduates who didn't know what to do often emigrated to work as TEFL teachers, and some tried to be managers at McDonalds.<br />
<br />
Nowadays there's a <a href="http://studyingeconomics.ac.uk/where-next/">checklist for economics career choices online</a>. Some colleges like UCLA now have email lists of invites to work for management consultants. I have signed-up to the UCLA one for a while out of curiosity and get offers of internships and short-term jobs at management consultancies. Boris Johnson did something similar. In the 20-teens I even over-heard the process from the next-door restaurant table, during a recession, in Lisbon, which is something that's hard to reference in a footnote, but true. The economics MA crowd from some university discussed which modelling software was easiest to use, and how one of them had even got an interview for some job. The questions were <i>"how are interest rates, exchange rates, and inflation rates related?"</i> and <i>"how do you value a bond?"</i>. If a Keele graduate had applied in 1987, the employer would have thought <i>"we had a Keele applicant before: they don't use computers and their teacher doesn't know there's a recession. No"</i>. That's a pity because, if I had known about that kind of job, I could have had a stab at the other two questions. My dad had been valued promises to pay HP finance payments for years, so this was one of the few areas of life I knew about. Keele Economics Department did not mention careers to students. I don't like to think that the problem was employers who suck-up to some colleges and ignore others, but if employers did dislike Keele graduates then the college could have taught self-employment skills. They did not. At the time, we knew it was going to be hard to get a job, but we didn't know how to apply for a job. Few of us had known each other; we didn't talk to each other on the course; this might have been a safe time for us to share job ideas now that we knew we would never have to meet whichever fellow student again. Keele economics staff had some idea about the job market from their <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1108/01437729010000952">research into redundant tyre workers</a>. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span class="hlFld-Abstract">The results suggest that displacement took place in the manufacturing sector of the local economy, but that self-employment was important in easing the “dynamic” adjustment of the post-redundancy labour market. Policy makers should recognise that a part of the adjustment process is the use of self-employment as a temporary employment state.</span></i></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Some people had craft skills</span> </h4>
That was about the end of my time as a Keele student and a time when I began to realise that other people had picked-up craft skills that were entirely absent from the Keele campus; it was designed to lift people out of practicality into the stratosphere from which we could shine-back like stars at the lucky practical people below. The expectation of people who founded grammer schools and universities was that there would always be lots of UK craft industries and exports and home consumption and that what was needed was a few more graduates. Rather like the assumptions of people who slash-and-burn the jungle in South America or Malaysia. They just assume that there will always be more.</div>
</fieldset>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""></span></span> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="" style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #990000;">2 Course Content <span face="">&</span> Structure</span></span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> All of the compulsory modules are relevant to my course.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> There is an appropriate range of options to choose from on my course.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The modules of my course form a coherent integrated whole</span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>...Relevant quantitative methods and computing techniques. These include appropriate mathematical and statistical methods, including econometrics. Students have exposure to the use of such techniques on actual economic, financial or social data, using suitable statistical or econometric software. - Quality Assurance Agency</i></span></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Dead languages</span> </h4>
We did a course like this for two hours a week of lectures and classes plus homework, all without computers.<br />
http://www.bmj.com/about-bmj/resources-readers/publications/statistics-square-one/11-correlation-and-regression<br />
<br />
https://www.mycurvefit.com/ automates the kind of thing we did in excercises.<br />
<br />
Just as the rest of the world first got their first home computers with 2D shareware stats software available, and after other small universities like Aberdeen had used stats software for fifteen years. Nor did we have tabulating machines, nor fortran codes for the old mainframe. As a result, the basics took a long time to learn and there was no time for exposure to actual economic financial or social data, and as a result of that, the course had nothing to do with my life and I forgot it all until, years later, I rather enjoy trying to work out what I once knew.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Econometrics is the branch of economics devoted to measuring relationships using economic data. The details need not concern us here, but the idea is simple enough. Having plotted the points describing the data, a computer works out where to draw the line to minimise the dispersion of points around the line. [...] After some practice most people get used to working with two dimensional diagrams [...] a few gifted souls can even draw diagrams in three dimensions. Fortunately, computers can work in 10 or 20 dimensions at once, even though we cannot imagine what this looks like [...] the tube fare on one axis, traffic congestion on a fourth, tube revenue on a fifth, plot all these variables at the same time, and fit or work-out the average relation between tube revenue and each of these influences" - Economics British Edition, Begg, 1984, p35</i></blockquote>
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjsmRiRDMnLHsVBkAzy5Na4wel7jwJnpYmNsRV7WcMVhDvYmgJP54SJPgj2TY67FTmk8fAM1PEyJbYRJQKhgzRb833CRmTrLVcI4ZsAOopQPPFCutSFkwmFQmi1RLMf2iF8Skmh_HHPC3B_/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjsmRiRDMnLHsVBkAzy5Na4wel7jwJnpYmNsRV7WcMVhDvYmgJP54SJPgj2TY67FTmk8fAM1PEyJbYRJQKhgzRb833CRmTrLVcI4ZsAOopQPPFCutSFkwmFQmi1RLMf2iF8Skmh_HHPC3B_/s320/temp.jpg" width="232" /></a>Despite reading that in a textbook in 1984, I have never seen a computer do stats calculations in more than 2D. Functions like that look easier to learn, nowadays, partly from the <a href="https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/4/47/CG41-CalcGuideLO.pdf#403">instructions of Libre Office Calc</a> and I might do it some time. <br />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><b><span style="color: #38761d;">λ</span></b></span></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; height: 255px; margin-left: 1em; text-align: left; width: 412px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhtI1w0u9x_Q_xV2TPPb04bY8lBXPyVLCQbGwAAsUj_1NUQHwbbn6mU9Zu5kvTlq7cWtrDnZP7uTLA1Mc9sve5W_IgIXd9P9MeVdpghRXdkRnF2ZitGwKu0Z0WseAvYxGKMGpbotp-ea2al/s1600/dinosaur-713060%255B1%255D.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="cartoon picture of a dinosoar with spots to illustrate statistical needs to measure whatever correlation, devation or variation mean" border="0" height="138" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhtI1w0u9x_Q_xV2TPPb04bY8lBXPyVLCQbGwAAsUj_1NUQHwbbn6mU9Zu5kvTlq7cWtrDnZP7uTLA1Mc9sve5W_IgIXd9P9MeVdpghRXdkRnF2ZitGwKu0Z0WseAvYxGKMGpbotp-ea2al/s400/dinosaur-713060%255B1%255D.jpg" title="" width="400" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr style="text-align: left;"> <td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: left;"><br />
<br />
<br /></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8PCGDh828Yr7POooZkwhrZgP34FEysF4MnFGQtrDOl1Phsb28WvntfkX8my49bKxcTQQpzM3FrjzermkYdEAKfs13WI21ep6qgbK1Cb8t8ZQfsKKMAsrrdxoAhiCJGQHJR2K_wWrvQii5/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="229" data-original-width="220" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8PCGDh828Yr7POooZkwhrZgP34FEysF4MnFGQtrDOl1Phsb28WvntfkX8my49bKxcTQQpzM3FrjzermkYdEAKfs13WI21ep6qgbK1Cb8t8ZQfsKKMAsrrdxoAhiCJGQHJR2K_wWrvQii5/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
You might want to skip this bit, but I enjoy writing it - it is a list of what I remember.<br />
<br />
If you want to a number for how fat Sigma the dinosoar is - a standard number that also applies to cows - you can work out the average spot distance from the tummy, or you can square each distance, average them, then square root, just to show-off, and call it the standard deviation. For some reason I forget there is a minus 1 or something like that in the formula. This works for cows as well but they are all more of a brick shape. If you can't find a dinosoar, try it on a cow.<br />
<br />
At the same time, it wasn't great at teaching the underlying principals. This is roughly what I remember. You can find the tummy button on a spotted dinosaur is by averaging measured spot distance from the tummy. Average usually means the same as it did at O level and in the Foundation Year, and is just as hard to calculate as an excercise with a calculator. If you want to look a bit more upmarket and mathsey, you can put a Lamda symbol over the top of the tummy button. You can tell whether you have a dinosoar, or a snake distribution, or giraffe distribution by a measure called variance. The same technique can show how a list of points on a graph vary from any line, like a row of spotted dinosaurs side by side and seen from above, but you need a computer do do that for a lot of numbers and Keele is short of computers because students aren't important. We did work out how to do some things called "r" and "chi squared" - I forget what they are - and some way of calculating a line of best-fit through spots on a graph, and something called degrees of confidence. We could do all this with a sheet of paper and a calculator. I remember being quite impressed at the time, and still am. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
But it was hard to do quickly without a computer and hard to remember if not applied to some real problem. Dinosoars have a normal distribution, but the spots on animals near Keele are more likely a cow distribution, or a load of spots, or a row close to another line. There's something called a Poisson Distribution too, and proper social scientists can probably spot some different distributions. We did carry-on doing statistics, but without a chance to cruch our own numbers. There were lectures on government unemployment statistics, on frictional and structural unemployment, and the thirteen different ways government had altered the stats to make themsleves look slighlty less disasterous. It was common knowledge with a bit more detail. All good career-building stuff because some of the few remaining jobs were at the Manpower Services Commission and Department for Social Security, which both counted unemployed people for their employment schemes and benefits. As a social science researcher with a job, I suppose you have to crunch your own numbers. Spots on animals may be useful as a teaching aid, but it turns-out that some of the stats text books were written by people who really did measure cows, using machines at Idaho state college where Fishman got his first full-time teaching job. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The lab in the Department of Agriculture inspired two Iowans, George Snedecor and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace#Advances_in_agronomy">Henry A. Wallace</a>, to experiment with punched-card statistical computations. Henry Wallace eventually rose to prominence as the Vice President of the United States, but during the 1920s, he was the publisher of his family’s farm journal, <i>Wallaces’ Practical Farmer</i>. He was also a self-taught statistician and was interested in the interplay of biology and economics in farm management. During the 1910s, he learned the methods of correlation studies and least squares regression by reading Yule’s book, An Introduction to the Theory of Statistics (London: Griffin, 1911). Finding in that book no easy method for solving the normal equations for regression, Wallace devised his own, using an idea that Gauss had applied to an astronomical problem. - <a href="http://www.amstat.org/about/statisticiansinhistory/index.cfm?fuseaction=paperinfo&PaperID=4">http://www.amstat.org/about/statisticiansinhistory/index.cfm?fuseaction=paperinfo&PaperID=4</a></blockquote>
You can also show-off by squaring the tummy distances before averaging them, then taking a square root. Maybe the point of this is to drill students in use of their slide rules before calculators came-in from Sinclair in the 70s, or something to do with those mechanical tabulating machines used at Idaho State College. You show-off the formula by putting it in shorthand which I find distracting and I think distracts teachers too. The faults of this teaching method are that you realise that you don't know why anything should be squared before averaging and square-rooting, and why there is a minus-one among other things in the formula. People who have done Nuffield science courses are relatively normal and want to know. Without knowing the reason for something, it's much harder to remember it apart from anything else. In Nuffield Physics we experimented with weights on springs, noted wave motion, and were guided in how to apply the same idea to electronic waves or microwaves. There was no need for a lecture phrased in algebra. <br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgKbMZuI0gh-amq2GRuKNBYxXmqFqZSabRIXLqnK_JfxiP8ZgPoYdgbk3yIW4wASjLTHSUMdE2nJaY1NAxH6WcJ9uLfs6GE3EgCZXWcJZfK_yC5NwR7EKAm90tmF8VbWoXWwDmIVLQ2hdSa/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="219" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgKbMZuI0gh-amq2GRuKNBYxXmqFqZSabRIXLqnK_JfxiP8ZgPoYdgbk3yIW4wASjLTHSUMdE2nJaY1NAxH6WcJ9uLfs6GE3EgCZXWcJZfK_yC5NwR7EKAm90tmF8VbWoXWwDmIVLQ2hdSa/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr> <td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: justify;">
Photo: Colorado State University <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/econ/news/50th_anniversary/Econ%2050th%20Slide%20Show.pdf">beige powerpoint</a> economics department, slide 21 of 30 to illustrate teaching from 1976-86 as part of their 50th anniversary powerpoint. The bloke's cave painting looks nice & interesting in context, but the algebra suggests lack of context; that this stuff was taught before the problem it could solve Why care if SC beta = sum (y-x beta) squared?</div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
If someone had asked if <span style="color: #cc0000;"><span face="">"compulsory modules are relevant to my course"</span></span>, I would have said that the two hours a week of manual stats classes were nothing to do with analysis of data; I could not apply them to any problem that needed to be solved; they were probably dull for the teacher and the students. Tradition dictates that the person with the beard has to teach this stuff and the one at Colorado State University in the 70s has done quite well with a 3 dimensional diagram for the photo, but however good the teacher it's still algebra taught before solving economic problems rather than algebra taught in order to solve economic problems. That's how a good subject gets to be ticky-tacky-fied into funny shorthand and repeated too many times. Not that I have any idea what M= I-X (X' X) - 'X' MX=0, M2=M(XB+E) = (MX<u>B</u> + M.... SC B) = SUM (Y-XB) squared SCR = SYN (YCB - XB) means. It could be rubbish written for the photographer or it could make sense. After doing other subjects like a Nuffield science A level and an art and a social science, I tended to think it was rubbish but was prepared to give it a try: I must have understood something like this once, but it is hard to remember without the reasoning behind it. The problem continues through the decades, possibly because so many maths graduates are looking for work that maths techniques get taught before any application they are meant to solve. Even if there is a problem that they solve. The London School of Economics can specify whatever kind of student it wants to teach, because so many apply. They have a page on http://www.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/DegreeProgrammes2017/economics/overview_and_features.aspx - or whatever the equivalent page is this year. under study > undergraduate > degree programs > economics. It mentions that they don't really want people with economics A-level, which raises the question of whether they should use the word "economics" in their course title, because this is obviously something else masquerading. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"a mathematically rigorous approach ... therefore very demanding of quantitative and analytical ability and interest. This should be taken into consideration when deciding whether this is the most suitable degree programme for you. If you have taken a gap year, it will be important for you to review the mathematics that you have learnt previously, in preparation for beginning studies at LSE. "</i> <i>"A level Mathematics (or equivalent) is a compulsory requirement for all programmes within the Economics Department at LSE."</i></blockquote>
<i>"An additional qualification in further mathematics, at any level, is generally preferable. "</i> They pepper the page with balancing items - clauses that say they shouldn't loose sight of the real world and that the maths is eventually applied - just take it on trust they imply. They also state that a lot of their students are post-graduate, so maybe you need to take a second degree course to recover from the first degree course Students give a bad review on unistats.. The way to avoid bad reviews, I guess, would be to write "This is not an eonomics course" on the prospectus. Something prompts students to rate LSE as among the bad economics courses on the list, and clues on a lot of the badly-reviewed economics courses suggest that they are a load of maths presented for its own sake which may or may not solve a real problem, and if it does that might be on a post-graduate course. The page refers to real data and real facts but the college still gets a terrible review.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Non facts</span> </h4>
For some reason, the stats teaching was not done with real stats or none that I can remember; there were plenty of memorable stats around in the mid 1980s about youth unemployment in the midlands or factory closures, but I only remember a few basic national figures being quoted. Tables of data from the central statistical office existed in the department library. They were not used for teaching; I remember only workbook exercises. The person standing at the end of the room was evidence of how badly the US college system works under political pressure, but we students didn't know. He had also worked in a furniture factory, but he didn't use furniture for his micro-economic excercises, nor data from the <a href="http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/PERSONALLY-SPEAKING-t-leave-historically/story-28055401-detail/story.html">Price's National Teapots</a> in the nearest town, or Silverdale Colliery down the hill. No. We did whatever workbook examples were in some textbook from the states. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Untrue theories</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"<a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2013/06/economics-textbooks/">The trouble with the textbooks in economics is that they contain things we economists know to be wrong</a>." - Diane Coyle, professor of economics, University of Manchester <span style="color: #741b47;">"6</span> <span style="color: #b45f06;">knowledge awareness</span> <span style="color: #38761d;">&</span> <span style="color: #38761d;">understanding</span> <span style="color: #741b47;">of historical, political, institutional international, social, and environmental contexts in which specific economic analysis is applied." - Quality Assurance Agency</span> benchmark</i></blockquote>
Economics textbooks ignore a large parts of the economy. The compulsory insurance part of the economy is redacted. <i>Begg</i> does not have a chapter called "Welfare State", followed by a few pages of blacked-out type. That would be silly. Economics journals are also open to articles in their category I of Health, Education and Welfare, with the <a href="http://stephen.bruestle.net/sites/SDB/folders/images/kelly%20and%20bruestle%20%282010%29.pdf">"Welfare" heading covering less than 1% of articles in the late 20th century</a>. <br />
<br />
<div style="break-before: page;">
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" id="I" name="I"></a> </div>
<center>
<a href="https://www.aeaweb.org/econlit/jelCodes.php"><b>I. Health, Education, and Welfare</b></a> </center>
<table style="border-spacing: 5px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td colspan="3" height="5"><br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I00</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
General</td> </tr>
<tr> <td colspan="3" height="5"><br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I1</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Health</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I10</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
General</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I11</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Analysis of Health Care Markets</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I12</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Health Behavior</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I13</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Health Insurance, Public and Private</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I14</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Health and Inequality</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I15</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Health and Economic Development</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I18</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Government Policy • Regulation • Public Health</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I19</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td colspan="3" height="5"><br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I2</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Education and Research Institutions</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I20</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
General</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I21</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Analysis of Education</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I22</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Educational Finance • Financial Aid</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I23</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Higher Education • Research Institutions</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I24</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Education and Inequality</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I25</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Education and Economic Development</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I26</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Returns to Education</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I28</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Government Policy</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I29</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Other</td> </tr>
<tr> <td colspan="3" height="5"><br /></td> </tr>
<tr> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I3</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Welfare, Well-Being, and Poverty</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I30</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
General</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I31</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
General Welfare, Well-Being</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I32</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Measurement and Analysis of Poverty</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I38</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Government Policy • Provision and Effects of Welfare Programs</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><br /></td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I39</td> <td valign="top"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Other</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Omitting Verse Three: the bit in the textbook that isn't taught</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<table style="border-spacing: 5px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td valign="top"><br /></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<span style="color: purple;">At some schools, songs are sung of a faith groupey kind, with un-true lyrics that nobody pays attention to. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Things_Bright_and_Beautiful">One <span style="color: purple;">jingle</span> <span style="color: purple;">is a bit ignorant about Darwin for</span> example, and <span style="color: purple;">only mentions "bright and beutiful" things with faith advertising aimed at children</span></a>. Then at verse three, even the faith groupeys think:<i>"steady-on"</i>, and it is sung omitting verse three: </span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"The rich man in his castle; the poor man at his gate: god made them high and lowly, and ordered their estate."</i></blockquote>
<span style="color: purple;">The "Welfare" chapter of economic textbooks is treated the same way in UK I suppose; printed, not taught, but taken seriously in America.</span> <span style="color: purple;">There are journal articles by one of Samualson's friends from the Algebra Club - I forget which one. Maybe Mr Arrow, who calculated internal rate or return or net present value or something like that which had probably been done before, but which he presented to an economic journal, wrapped in algebra. From a UK perspective, what's strange is that this un-read chapter doesn't mention the welfare state; it is based on work by people who lived in countries without any kind of social insurance system and make a great effort to pretend not to have heard of it.</span> <span style="color: purple;">Take</span> <span style="color: purple;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilfredo_Pareto#Fascism_and_power_distribution">Fred "this and that" Pareto</a>, an early twentieth century engineer and teacher in Italy and Switzerland who wrote several books about income distribution. He was well placed to write about the Prussian social insurance system which had been running for decades as he wrote, but, if he wrote about that, it's not what's quoted. He was such a fervant anti-communist that he came close to supporting Moussolini and was free to travel in Fascist Italy where - according to Wikipedia - the regime took to his ideas. An embarassing man to quote, but if he wrote things that were true that shouldn't be important. <b>This and that theory : one students' guess</b></span> <span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: purple;"><i><span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: purple;"><a class="image" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PareoEfficientFrontier1024x1024.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="A production-possibility frontier is an example of a Pareto Efficient Frontier. The connected line of red points represents Pareto optimal choices of production before the addition of point N." class="thumbimage" data-file-height="1024" data-file-width="1024" height="256" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/PareoEfficientFrontier1024x1024.png/256px-PareoEfficientFrontier1024x1024.png" title="A production-possibility frontier is an example of a Pareto Efficient Frontier. The connected line of red points represents Pareto optimal choices of production before the addition of point N." width="256" /></a></span></span></span></span></i></span>At a canteen, people have space on their plates for vegetables when walking past the self-service. Maximum helpings of vegetable one or vegetable two, measured by area, would form a straight line on a diagram like the one on the right. But most people have a middling combination, suggesting some preference for variety over clear decision. At a tile shop, when people want to re-pave their front paths, they have a similar choice of red tiles or dark tiles for example. A lot choose red and dark to form a pattern. But recent research done while walking down a street suggests that a lot of people have all-red or all-dark tiles, casting doubt on this theory's usefulness without specific context. A similar theory exists for production possiblity frontiers. It comes from another chapter. A kitchen that has frozen carrots and frozen peas may find it easier if people to have a bit of this and that, or be just as happy to serve all carrots or all peas if people want them. A tile factory might have some technical reason to make some of this and some of that, on some product lines, or they might be just as happy to make all red tiles or all dark tiles.</span> <span style="color: purple;">It depends on the product line. I think this is about the limit of this-and-that theory. The</span> <span style="color: purple;">subject comes round-again somewhere, and there is a much better informed, reasonable account of Fred "this and that" Pareto in <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a>, p 124 Pareto Theory Number Two "all things bright and beautiful".</span> <span style="color: purple;">His other qualification - other than algebra - was that he has no theory about national insurance system that sprung-up in Prussia in the 1860s and slowly in the UK after 1911, so his ideas were un-tainted by anything that might offend republican voters in the USA. He also disliked communists and was free to travel in Fascist Italy. Another writer who was imprisoned by the Fascist regime had time to write a book about how authority influences society, and had to make-up new jargon to try and avoid annoying anybody. His name was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci">Gramsci</a> and he came-up in the English course at Keele. I even bought the book but it's as thick as an Economics textbook and I sold it again unread (you make more money that way). But <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony">Gramsci probably has something to say about economics teachers and the like</a>, where Pareto is just silent. The text book avoids mentioning social insurance systems. It uses a euphemism: <i>"<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_payment">transfer payments</a>"</i>, which happen in a single year, while social insurance payments happen over a life-cycle. The euphemism is good if you want to draw a diagram of how money flows-about in a year. Tax and Transfer both begin with <i>"T"</i>; <i>"Transfer"</i> is like negative tax. But nothing like a national insurance fund is allowed in this economy, or any sense that people have paid-in to the system at one age and are due money out as a right at another age. A mention of a long-term contract between a welfare state and taxpayers over time removes the idea that the very rich pay for the very poor, it raises the question of whether a monopoly insurance service can be cheaper, which it can, and it opens-up the question of what governments are for, as illustrated in other subjects that students study like history and politics.The textbook also avoids the problem of how you cut spending in such an economy if you're chancellor. You can't. A policy designed in text-book-land can recommend large cuts in spending to reduce the money supply, but what happens is that claims for benefits go-up, keeping public spending pretty-much the same. My 1984 Begg textbook has none of that, despite using the word <i>"national insurance"</i> on the same page as <i>"transfer payments"</i>.</span> <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <span style="color: purple;">I would like to say that this is a muddle, or a mistake, but the muddle is neat and consistent when it also forgets to mention the role of tariffs in allowing workers to work with the extra minimum costs of a welfare state in competition with workers from Bangladesh.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: purple;">It forgets to mention the idea of social clauses which are not inserted into tariffs for purposes like this but could be. It forgets to mention the strangeness of Samuelson's <i>"Public Good"</i> journal article, which implies from its name that there are few other reasons for public sector spending.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: purple;">The Begg textbook does suggest a few other rather weird ones - the <i>"Merit Good"</i> and the annual decision of electors to promote equality by redistribution - but these are fairly obviously naff.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
<span style="color: purple;">After all this very neat forgetfulness, I suspect that the problem is not a muddle but a real disagreement between a textbook author and a lot of the electorate over a hundred years or more, with the text book author and similar economists on one side and the electorate on the other. These two compromises are very neat for maintaining textbook sales in West Virginia or Alabama or Bangladesh, or even for adding to the US edition for a UK readership as Begg did, but I don't think historians would agree that that's what national insurance does. As someone who did history O and A level, I think economists are a badly educated bunch.</span> Times had moved-on since Economics could be summed-up in one textbook by one person in 1948. By 1984, the replacement textbook was 799 pages long because it described the usual news-speak theories, and then had little-read chapters later-on to say that the previous chapters were untrue. For example the diagram of graduate income, above, has a few notes added in the next page or so to say that in times of high unemployment, people study just to avoid unemployment, and that not all graduates find jobs. I found it hard to guess as a student whether the syllabus and exam were about the untrue theories or the true ones, but my choice of a more concise textbook and comments like <i>"crap"</i> in the margin suggest something uneasy. The essay about a <i>"public good"</i> was an odd choice. The theory attempts to explain why most governments provide a few public services beyond their natural activity of funding wars, pointy things, opera and circuses. Lighthouses are pointy. Ships, missiles, and aircraft are pointy. All this fits the pattern, but roads are not quite pointy in the same sense. Samuelson's theory was one of two things - I forget which: (1) it is daft to try to charge ship owners for lighthouses; charging is either impossible or disproportionate. Giant sea-curtains come to mind, or international taxes that are ignored in Panama. (2) there is no marginal cost to extra ships using the light. <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/1925895">You will have to read the article to find out which of the two points he made, in order to get your essay marked correct</a>. Skip the twiddly bits in italics: they're just for show. Taking historical examples in the UK, apart from lighthouses, it's too complicated, if not impossible, to make all roads toll-roads, so they're best provided from taxes. It's such a limited definition of what can be done best by the public sector that, taught alone, it can only be a deliberate attempt to confuse students. Students already have clearer ideas from history courses, so they know it's stupid. The teacher has a narrower education but thinks it's stupid, but it is still taught. My hunch is that it is part of the consensus built-up around US Federal spending on arms as an alternative to funding a welfare state - specially strong during conscription and the Vietnam war. The rest of the course was spent on largely un-true textbook theories about the labour market or monetary policy. Economics is distinct in this way. I doubt engineers study upward gravity in the first year and go-on, if the course is long enough, to study downward gravity right at the end. The effect of tax, spending, and interest rates in a closed economy, called the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS%E2%80%93LM_model">ISLM curve</a> in the jargon, is an untrue theory when applied to an open economy. Higher interest rates effect the exchange rate, causing imports to flood-in and closing chunks of UK manufacturing. On the other hand, if you find a way to boost demand, imports flood-in as well. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<i>"The model was developed by <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/1907242">John Hicks in 1937</a>, and later extended by <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/4537591">Alvin Hansen</a>, as a mathematical representation of Keynesian macroeconomic theory. Between the 1940s and mid-1970s, it was the leading framework of macroeconomic analysis. While it has been largely absent from macroeconomic research ever since, it is still the backbone of many introductory macroeconomics textbooks." - Wikipedia</i></blockquote>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">Or the presumption that inflation is caused by unions bidding-up labour costs, without reference to inflation caused by the Arab oil crisis in the 1970s. Looking at my annotated textbook, I'm surprised at my own patience to learn things so obviously untrue</a>, next to annotations like <i>"imports?", "the main determination of output is still labour market efficiency?"</i> or <i>"you can't buy-back a closed steel works with low wages"</i>, <i>"real interest rates were negative in the 70s but investment low - rationed by the banks", "pseudo first principals", "getting silly", "silly", "pedantic", "bla bla", "probably not true", "doesn't follow", "impossible", "tax law: high investment but pension fund objectives allow takeover unless short-term profit cf. Ever Ready", "30 years out of date", "is this likely?".</i> Fishman didn't choose this textbook - I did - but there was no space on his course to criticise theories either. Oddly enough liked Pete Seeger concerts according to a friend of his on the net who's <a href="https://marykayenglestein.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/s4/">pages is good to read</a>. Eleanor Fishman - spouse - had something to do with the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almanac_Singers">Almanac Singers</a> who sang folk songs like this Pete Seeger one. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>What did you learn at school today, Dear little girl of mine? What did you learn in school today, Dear little boy of mine?</i> <i>I learned that Washington never told a lie. I learned that soldiers seldom die. I learned that everybody's free, And that's what the teacher said to me.</i> <i><i>That's what I learned in school today, That's what I learned in school. ...</i></i> <i>I learned that policemen are my friends. I learned that justice never ends. I learned that murderers die for their crimes Even if we make a mistake sometimes.</i> <i> ...</i><i>I learned our Government must be strong; It's always right and never wrong; Our leaders are the finest men And we elect them again and again.</i> <i> ..</i>. <i>I learned that war is not so bad; I learned about the great ones we have had; We fought in Germany and in France And someday I might get my chance. </i><span style="color: #134f5c;"><span style="color: black;"><i> ... That's what I learned in school today, That's what I learned in school.</i> Some of this music was for sale as cover versions on <i>Music for Pleasure</i> in Woolworths, or shown as interludes on programs like Blue Peter. The stuff with more vague lyrics like <i>"this land is our land"</i>, whatever that means. They notably lacked criticism of <a href="http://employees.org.uk/">corrupt feckless undemocratic unions that don't provide a lawyer</a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/null">when you get the sack</a>, but that's where the world of song lyrics departs from the world of tables of data turned into economic reports; economists should be sharp, like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_accounting">forensic accountants</a>, and if I had known about that career path I might have taken it & done good.</span> My mum quite liked Nina and Fredrick records, usually covers of the tamer Pete Seger songs. I didn't really have social skills but had been befriended by someone who did American Studies and let me follow him around [<a href="https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00959273">date of parents' business closure at Subdbury Carpets possibly 1985</a>] and asked me about economics - or at least about Thorsten Veblen. He gave me a tape of another Vietnam song, about what happens if you don't fit-in at a US school and tick the right little boxes on the economics workbook. It is by Country Joe and the Fish. Like Pete Seeger, they liked to get the audience to sing along.</span> <i>Well, come on all of you, big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again. Yeah, he's got himself in a terrible jam Way down yonder in Vietnam So put down your books and pick up a gun, Gonna have a whole lotta fun.</i> <i>And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. Yeah, come on Wall Street, don't be slow, Why man, this is war a-go-go There's plenty good money to be made By supplying the Army with the tools of its trade, Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb, They drop it on the Viet Cong.</i> <i>And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam. And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why Whoopee! we're all gonna die.</i> <i>Well, come on generals, let's move fast; Your big chance has come at last. Now you can go out and get those reds 'Cause the only good commie is the one that's dead And you know that peace can only be won When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come. And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam;</i> <i>And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why Whoopee! we're all gonna die.</i> <i>Come on mothers throughout the land, Pack your boys off to Vietnam. Come on fathers, and don't hesitate To send your sons off before it's too late. You can be the first ones in your block To have your boy come home in a box.</i></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">< Digression on record players ></span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This exchange of cassette tapes about American Studies and Economics could have shown how well the Foundation Year could work, but in fact the other student didn't do the foundation year. I think it was my record turntable that interested him and provoked a gift of a free tape. There were a couple of record turntable manufacturers - Garrard and BSR - that made identical rumbly contraptions. If you bought a complete record player in a charity shop, took out the turntable, and mounted it on three bean tins with a better stylus, you got quite a good product.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">< / Digression on record players ></span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">< Digression on Foundation Year subject mixing > <span style="color: black;"></span></span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Reading a history of Keele, I see that my foundation year was meant to be quite a big thing. Not just a way of bumping-up the numbers from people who had flunked their exams, but an attempt to stretch funding that was designed for three year courses, all to promote this kind of exchange between economics students and american studies students over a Country Joe and the Fish cassette. A degree in two subjects was unusual at the time as well, and that's an idea that has stuck but the 1990s prospectuses that have survived online, on webarchive.org, don't promote un-related subjects. They don't say that there is extra coaching and admission for people with worse A-levels if they do un-related subjects.</span></span></span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://www.keele.ac.uk/english/people/jimmclaverty/">One tutor</a> could remember when there used to be discussion groups, chaired by a tutor to encourage thoughts about how subjects contrast or get taught differently or overlap. This is mixing a half-remembered anecdote with a few lines in a Keele history and experience of surviving hopeless social work jobs. Or maybe someone quoted him saying this and it's a terrible mis-quote. The groups would do something like discuss a film. Someone might say something like "Wow!". "There's not very much you can do with "wow", he said. I have found the same thing in chaotic attempts at groupwork by social services agencies. There needs to be some kind of structure for some proportion of the groups - otherwise people feel they have to voice some standard smalltalk that emerges that isn't very useful or even likely to tempt people back next time if they have a choice. Maybe a few open groups out of the selection are good, but not loads.</span></span></span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">So for that reason, mid 1980s foundation year courses were taster sessions, discussing a particular book with lectures and a tutorial, or doing a bit of science or art if you were used to art or science. I was let-off most of the science because I did A-level, but I did a mini course in assembling electronics on a circuit board from a plan in any electronics magazine I chose.</span></span></span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">My anecdote about learning how Economics and American Studies overalap is about a boy who didn't do the foundation year and thoughts that popped into my head decades later. At the time we didn't talk a massive amount about the subjects we studied, any more than people talk about their jobs at home. I suppose that was part of the idea of living on a campus for most of four years, but I don't remember long conversations about the overalap between different subjects.</span></span></span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Somewhere in that digression might be a clue to how to get students to discuss the overlaps between their subjects and lecturers to help the process, but I don't know straight-away what it is.</span></span></span> <span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"></span></span></span></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">< / Digression on Foundation Year subject mixing ></span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">< Digression on the real life that I wanted to study ></span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There is a list of the kinds of things I wanted to study on the better economics teaching page, near the top. I would have liked to study a short course on why it is difficult to re-open a washing machine factory or a steel works. <a href="http://www.eurekamagazine.co.uk/design-engineering-features/technology/uk-is-not-washed-up/108160/">Ebac in Darlington have just started making washing machines.</a> In the past they bought machine tools from the closed factory at Norfrost that made chest freezers. It was probably the same this time; <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160114172627/http://www.aceindustry.net/media/product/pdf/3349-Washing%20Machines%20Production%20Plant.pdf">some came-up for sale on an auction site</a> but scale is a problem for most of us. They've solved it by building-up the business over generations, picking up a lot of skills, and buying-in some of the parts. They're also owned by some kind of trust that doesn't have to please shareholders. Slow growth of what works, buying used tools, buying-in parts, and working within cheap delivery cost of suppliers are all good ideas. One of the cutlery brands in Sheffield seems to have been based in block of workshops that all shared the biggest machines I think, although I can't remember the source - it was an archaeological dig before redevelopment. Small but expensive production methods for trials and top-ups are good, allowing larger orders to be sent. Even so, if it's 1984, it's hard to imagine any way to make a higher bid for the Servis washing machine business than a <a href="https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmownerid/search?domain=1&id=311015&app=0&mark=UK00000550612">company that just wants the brand</a>. This is what the housing developers wrote about Service washing machines: <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"The site totals 4.55 ha (11.24 acres) and is formed from two parcels of land; the first being the former Servis Site which is rectangular in shape; the second being the former <a href="http://www.alucast.co.uk/">Alucast</a> Site which is an additional triangle of land, to the northern end of the site. The Servis Factory has now been cleared and levelled (2011) to slab"</i></blockquote>
Supposing you still want to buy the tools, that leaves you without the brand because it has been sold to a rival, and probably most of the site because it has been sold to property developers. You need some way of interesting the washing machine buying public in your factory, by saying it employs people in their own economy, it pays taxes to their government, it finances the welfare state. You could to try exports, which are sold on reliability, price, and an exchange rate that gives overseas buyers a good deal. <br />
<br />
I would have liked to study the dire ignorance with which the national insurance system of the UK is managed, mainly because I want everyone else to study it as well; I don't want to live in a country where politicians come-in to office and think "why do we pay pensions?", because the subject is censored from the economics textbooks studied by anyone they talk to. Social insurance or Social security are good search terms. The subject also leads to the Social Clause - a brief 1970s idea in tariff policy - which say that an exporting country can have terms dictated by the importing country; get a welfare state or we charge you. This seems to be the only way of making the world a better place all-round, whether by reducing famine in africa or re-opening washing machine factories in the UK, but it is a taboo subject.</blockquote>
Anyway that was about fact and this is a post about the fiction in the economics text book. As I catch sentences of the Levacic textbook I see endless references to some kind of fixed aggregate labour market that bids on price for work for itself in a closed economy, but only in the text book; obviously nothing remotely similar exists in practise. I did not realise at the time that the textbook theories are not much based on evidence. Professor Les Fishman at Keele taught text-book theory as childrens' TV explains the world of grown-ups. He had the same specs and haircut as Samuelson. Is that weird?</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face=""><span style="font-weight: normal;"><b><span face="">3</span>. Work Placements</b></span></span></span> </h3>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>Did your course involve any work placements? No (skip this section)</span></span> I did do a tour of an old ceramics factory, but I think the Quality Assurance Agency would call it a site visit rather than a work placement. So many factories closed so quickly in the 80s that they weren't well secured; it was possible just to walk-in and wonder round. I wondered round an old corner building with a 1950s front and a very old back where the last batch produced had been <a href="http://www.stephensons.com/2028-steelite-international-simplicity-white">Steelite</a> <a href="http://www.stephensons.com/1006-steelite-international-performance-collection">crockery - that's the nifty sort with cups that stack-up</a>. One of the letters on the doormat was from a supplier complaining that a delivery had been refused; the factory closure had come as a surprise. I went through the post, just in case an order had come-in, but there was none. If an order had come-in after a keynsian re-flation, I didn't know how to make it up. I needed one of those invisible hands that's meant to guide workers around a capital stock of factors of production like training and work space and machinery for hire, but I couldn't find an invisible hand. Nor anything large and metal, because those things had had been removed from the factory for scrap, so I would have needed a lot of skill even if I knew <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_forming_techniques">more about ceramics</a>, and there was no ceramics course at Keele. I just knew about the daft system of using a pottery wheel. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><Digression on the price of steelite crockery></span> </h4>
I don't know a walk-in shop where you can buy cheap Steelite, new or secondhand, but I haven't much looked. I just found a place where you have to buy packs of say 36 per style and size and a minimum for free delivery (and ebay what you don't want) unless you buy other things from a catering supplier at the same time. Prices per mug before VAT are about what you'd pay in a shop after VAT, but anyone in catering might work-out how to get an initial batch second hand or just inherit them. The quality and continuity of supply would make more difference than price per piece to someone with a catering business. With fair economic management of the economy by government, and a consensus that it's good to buy things from democratic welfare states among buyers, the factory might have got another order, but it didn't. The sales web page doesn't say that it's made in the UK, so I guess it isn't, but the Price's National Teapot factory is still in business making Prices & Kensington teapots to sell at the same caterer's supplier on another page, so the extra cost of UK production (minus benefits like smaller batches and shorter lead times) wasn't the overwhelming single issue.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><b></Digression on the price of steelite crockery></b></span></blockquote>
If you google business support services in the UK, you just see free seminars in retaining intellectual property over china. Nothing about borrowing a ceramics press and kiln if you can't afford your own factory, or craft education for volunteers who want to be self-employed, and not much about shared marketing for UK makers. Three or four million people were unemployed, so work placements in firms that were still open would have made no sense while Professor Alan Walters, late of the LSE, and Sir Geoffrey Howe advised the Thatcher government how to close the rest down as quickly as possible. The only work under the control of Keele Economics Department was a survey of what happened to 120 redundant tyre workers, which would be about one per student. I suppose the assumption was that 20 of them would loose contact for reasons like dying or emigrating or writing colourful language one the question-form instead of ticking the boxes. I guess that if your mum or dad are one of the redundant Michelin tyre workers, it would be awkward to allocate you as a student to monitor their progress. Somehow Keele Economics Department got £30,000 of funding for this. Unfortunately the teachers counted these 120 people it themselves rather than making a work placement of it; none of the £30,000 reached students, or unemployed people, and the Economics and Social Research Council is too grand to keep a note of why they spent the money. If the course had made sense, and taught the weaknesses of models, we would have had a class about how hard it is to squat a ceramics factory and get production going on lower wages after the shock to the system that monetarists warn about, and there would have been some kind of survey done by students about why it's hard. I don't remember anything like that.</div>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">5. Course Delivery</span></span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>There are various ways of [teaching to]</i></span> <i><span style="color: #741b47;">to explore and analyse information and consider policy implications. [including] lectures, seminars, tutorials, workshops, peer teaching and learning, projects, experiments and distance-learning approaches. - Quality Assurance Agency</span> benchmark</i></blockquote>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>Learning materials made available on my course have enhanced my learning. <span face=""></span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The range and balance of approaches to teaching has helped me to learn.</span> <span face=""></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> The delivery of my course has been stimulating</span>.</span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> My learning has benefited from <span style="font-family: inherit;">[<span face="">one</span>]</span> <span face=""></span>module<strike>s</strike> that are informed by current research</span>.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" />Practical activities on my course have helped me to learn.</span></span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31FX%2ByugK7L._SL500_SX328_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31FX%2ByugK7L._SL500_SX328_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg" width="236" /></a></div>
If you can't study numbers for economics, it makes sense to study pages of words written by the likes of Keynes before he wrote his general theory - <i>"The relevance of the fact that Keynes’ General Theory was published in the midst of the Great Depression is hard to dispute. Understanding where theories came from, and why, will help students to make better judgements about interpreting and applying theory"</i> - says the Post Crash Economics Society report. We did not study a word of Keynes, Marshall economist, nor any critical text, even though a member of staff had written one of them, called <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html" title="The British Economic Crisis: its past present and future ISBN 9780140225020"><i>The British Economic Crisis</i></a>, by <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith/publications.html">Keith Smith</a>. We might have read it in our civilian time or on his optional specialist thing in year 3 but it was not part of the main course. Our written learning materials were journal articles - like Samualson on the Public Good - or a textbook to use as background reading that wasn't related to the course; nobody said "this is the same as chapter 35 but I disagree with bits of it", or "revise from chapter 35". Another couple of staff were interested in input-output tables or African development, but had the typical Keele lecturers' career prospects and no chance to teach what they were interested in because Chi-squared and ISLM took-up all the space on the syllabus. There were very few MA students to supervise or help. It was like teaching A-level in a more mundane but robotic way. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> My learning has benefited from modules that are informed by current research</span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>An ability to discuss, analyse and evaluate government policy and to assess the performance of the UK and other economies and of the global economy. - Quality Assurance Agency <span style="color: black;">Benchmark</span></i></span></blockquote>
Professor Les was not just rude and bad at his job when he used the royal <i>"we"</i> to wee on the students by saying <i>"now <u>we</u> believe in monetary solutions"</i>; he lied. <a href="http://www.res.org.uk/SpringboardWebApp/userfiles/res/file/newsletters/Statement_of_Economic_Policy_List_of_Signatures.pdf">Economics teachers from nearly every university in the UK wrote to The Times about that time to state that new government economics policies were failing.</a> Only one person from Keele signed the letter. I don't remember him teaching; he must have been one of the people on unpaid leave, working at another college and leaving gaps in Keele teaching. As for Fishman, someone asked him why such a damaging monetary policy was taken seriously. His answer was teflon-smooth and diplomatic: <i>"it'll be a shock to the system - like a cold shower. That's what they say - the people who believe in it"</i>, and he shrugged. He resorted to mime. Both answers struck me as bad at the job of professing at Keele in the 1980s, but good at the previous job of coping with machiavellian bosses and the false accusations of being a lefty, based on any shred of a fact taken out of context. Fishman was a diplomat; a teflon man. There was nothing in that statement that could allow attempts at unfair dismissal; nothing that could be picked-on by a political activist. It was a statement that referred only to the views of the economics teaching trade in the US, leaving his own views private. It was not informed by current research. There is an explanation for why Fishman didn't sign that letter to <i>The Times</i>; why he came to work as a diplomat representing the economics trade and not as a teacher of fact. He once published an article in an obscure journal called the Centenial Review. Another in another issue, someone writes a long comparison of the Spanish Inquisition and the removal of communists and radicals like Fishman from US state employment in the 1950s (bottom of <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_4.html">this page</a>, gif image p.236) . It concludes that <i>"their children will not join any organisations or sign any petitions"</i>. Outside college, people who did not deal in goods and imports and exports tended not to realise how important the exchange rate was to unemployment, and looked to economists to explain the problem. <a href="http://www.econjournalwatch.org/pdf/WoodCharacterIssuesJanuary2006.pdf">Economists just talked about the money supply</a> - a 1980s fashion for naming guesstimates of money supply after motorways like M1 M2 M3 and M4 that <a href="http://webspace.qmul.ac.uk/cjtyson/seminars/0708/papers/milas.pdf">soon lapsed</a> - rather than admit that the government was lowering prices by closing factories and paying more than it needed to for public debt in order to encourage cheap imports from badly-run countries*. That's why I signed-up for an economics course. I guess that money supply figures are a bit like fairies: you can believe that tehy exist but it's hard to know if they really control anything. The Bank of England now explains the problem of how ceramics factories close when you put-up the interest rate with the bottom line of arrows on this diagram: a raised base rate, as in Geoffrey Howe's budgets, will raise the exchange rate by sucking-in large amounts of overseas investors to buy UK government stock or similar. This raises the price of sterling and goods produced by factories that use sterling to pay staff and suppliers, putting them out of business and loosing all their inherited tools and workshop space to the scrapyard and Bovis Homes; staff are dispersed and the chance of talented people getting together again in the kitchen of a Bovis home to make the next generation of ceramics are low. A fifth of UK manufacturing closed in the first five years of this policy, which continued in place and was later delegated to the Monetary Policy Committee, who used it until 2009 and keep it in reserve should inflation ever rise. It may well return. Decades later, that is the regret that shows in the faces of ex cabinet ministers interviewed about their awful boss. As James Prior put it <i>"Once you've lost that much industry, it's very hard to get it back".**</i> <br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDMKZD7MClNwtdQeGLv7-2wq2NPIfeW8TurpS2B65OzDXNXnm6W8cyEclrfMQXNNciksMT2QZmwG1uFdE4rM3MqbMq7OQwP_Z-4IwFxuqefP32u4qm5Eyq8qgBapbChu16N9PKUpuyJZPY/s1600/monetarism.gif" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="Bank of England report to MPs - taken from the pdf document on the bank of england web site" border="0" height="190" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDMKZD7MClNwtdQeGLv7-2wq2NPIfeW8TurpS2B65OzDXNXnm6W8cyEclrfMQXNNciksMT2QZmwG1uFdE4rM3MqbMq7OQwP_Z-4IwFxuqefP32u4qm5Eyq8qgBapbChu16N9PKUpuyJZPY/s400/monetarism.gif" title="From Interest rates to inflation - the transmission mechanism of monetary policy" width="400" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr> <td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
the bottom line of arrows is what closes-down manufacturing</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
[the diagram of how the official rate of interest effects the exchange rate and import prices shows better at a larger size. It is <a href="http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/other/monetary/montrans.pdf">from The Transmission Mechanism of Monetary Policy, by The Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee, 27/4/1999 ,a report prepared by Bank of England staff under the guidance of the Monetary Policy Committee in response to suggestions by the Treasury Committee of the House of Commons and the House of Lords</a> The text of the report states how the system works to smash the manufacturing economy] <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>Students have exposure to the use of such techniques on actual economic, financial or social data - Quality Assurance Agency <span style="color: black;">Benchmark</span></i></span></blockquote>
We studied from a book called Begg, which had up-to-date footnotes to journal articles, and when keen we could look-up these articles in the library. These ought to be titled "please hire me" and are written by economics teachers who think "autism" has a different meaning in economics. Really. <a href="http://www.res.org.uk/details/mediabrief/5158031/JOURNAL-RANKINGS-MAY-DETER-ECONOMISTS-FROM-ADDRESSING-BIG-QUESTIONS.html" title="Jounral Rankings May Deter Economists from Addressing Big Questions - press release and web page by the Royal Economic Society, also published as Ranking Journals by John Hudson in the August 2013 issue of the Economic Journal. John Hudson is in the Department of Economics at the University of Bath.">An article published on the Royal Economics Society web site says something similar in more polite language</a>. A <a href="http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-01-06/how-economics-went-from-theory-to-data">US survey finds them increasingly theoretical from 1962 until 1984</a>, when professors of quantitative methods finally learnt to use their office computers. As a student I did find one article - in the Journal of Industrial Relations - that says that the elasticity of employment is quite flat; there aren't many more basic jobs at £5 an hour than £10 an hour as was discovered after raising the minimum wage. That's useful. It probably involved a bit of algebra which suddenly becomes interesting when shorthand for something you understand already but want to jot down or see on concentrated form, as a set of simple ratios. I expect there is some pleasure to be had in journal articles and algebra for their own sake, just as I quite like a bit of economic history or an episode of Top Gear and some people like cricket, but those are marmite tastes not to be inflicted on others without context and good reason. The Begg chapter on unemployment just discusses the technical problem of measuring unemployment. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">If the full text appears online it will be linked here</a>. As for the main text - <i>"<a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2013/06/economics-textbooks/">The trouble with the textbooks in economics is that they contain things we economists know to be wrong</a>." - Diane Coyle, professor of economics, University of Manchester.</i> The book and the course showed no great interest in three or four million people unemployed and the death of so many manufacturing firms. The chapter on unemployment skips-over the problem; I suppose it's like a classic 1950s US textbook. This "British Edition" does try to be all things to all people; it has a bit on current affairs later-on. <a href="https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/464455.Economics">Begg Fischer and Dornbusch "Economics"</a> seldom puts numbers next to graphs; it publishes graphs as diagrams to illustrate the grown-up's ideas to the children; a blue peter guide. Secondhand copies are good because they open at the interesting page. This opened at page 663-4 where it says that real exchange rates had made a massive change to competitiveness in the early 1980s, forcing a lot of factories to trade at a loss in hope of better times ahead. So it gets to the point eventually but doesn't put the main news on the cover where it belongs. I expect that if there's a Greek edition it mentions national debt on page 663, or a new British edition it mentions the banking crisis on the page 663. This mis-leading by textbooks is peculiar to economics. Alongside Begg, we had a book that described marginal cost theory without real examples, and the teachers had "workbooks" of multiple-choice exercises. <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">The course is well organised and is running smoothly</span></span> <b><span style="color: red;">In year three, the course might have started, taking available data into account:</span></b> <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaCubBiTm9TXU9rBPpdBvGq1YbNSBMLRsS7Rea9IrhcQjhTLhDK8hncIFtf4rhyZTo_dqit4aFT0TEdZUC8vg4oC21nHY1szvMqDUEj6_x8mIkNHk58QIEJye4GLI0qM_Xuof7opc5aPcz/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="180" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaCubBiTm9TXU9rBPpdBvGq1YbNSBMLRsS7Rea9IrhcQjhTLhDK8hncIFtf4rhyZTo_dqit4aFT0TEdZUC8vg4oC21nHY1szvMqDUEj6_x8mIkNHk58QIEJye4GLI0qM_Xuof7opc5aPcz/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a>In fact there was one vestige of previous teaching - a course on industrial innovation based on the tutor's own <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">British Economic Crisis</a> book which was so good that I have pirated in full on another page. There was space for two of these on the timetable. The tutor who's blog says he became a rowing-coach had a course about funding pensions and care for us lot in thirty years' time. Talking of thirty years time, this is a survey result of what University College London students wanted to study in the twenty-teens Fishman took relevant factors into account before deciding what to teach in year three. <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span></span></span> surveys of what courses students wanted to study: none <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span></span></span> phone calls from his boss: at least one while teaching <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span></span></span> courses he was prepared to teach: none; the only course notes on his shelf were old revision notes. Economics tutors did a huge amount of work, compared to English tutors, talking from one end of a room to bored faces about something like an "indifference curve". There was a lot of economics teaching, so budgets were tight. Fishman cancelled any pretence at a 1980s UK university-style course for his part of year three teaching, holding his own 1950s-style "revision class" instead. <br />
<br />
<h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Fishman</a></span> <b><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">writings show that he was slightly interested in transport, in the Vietnam war, and he'd tried to run a course in things like negotiation skills and different types of trades unions in the 1950s</a>, but there is not much evidence of him ever running a course, even in the subject of unemployment and redundant tyre workers where he'd got large government grants to compile reports. He was slightly interested in market structure and how one number of firms in a market produced differently to another, but I don't think he ever got an ideas together enough to get something published or prepare a course. I think he was too slow and goofy to talk to a group of 12 or 24 students round a table, but his own excuse was different, and he was the boss. In the 1960s he'd told a visitor to Colorado University that the students could not <i>"absorb a text book"</i> and had <i>"to some extent to be spoon-fed"</i>. It's odd to think that he used the same excuse at Keele in 1987 during an economic crisis, but he did. I remember the teacher in the one non-cancelled course, Kieth Smith, asking something like: <i>"do you mind being taught like this? Because the person who runs this department - Fishman - is in favour of tutorials <u>as long as people are OK with them and want them</u>?"</i> The conversation had happened years before; it was over. Students are thanked for tutorial contributions in the preface to <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">Keith Smith's book</a>, so any hope that Fishman would finally do his job in the last years before retirement were low.</span></b> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="color: red;">Teaching based on available data</span></b> </h4>
Based on available data, Fishman cancelled one of two third-year specialised courses and taught something he called a "revision class" instead, standing at one end of a room and reading out to photocopied sets of economic exercises that he had found on his shelf from way-back. I didn't see anyone making a fuss; I got the impression that this was quite normal and that he did it every year. A good revision class would have been based closely on the book, chapter-by-chapter, topic by topic, to add a sense of structure. It did not. I remember people trying to get Fishman to say what was on the syllabus, and he not quite understanding the questions, as though we all had the same late 20th century mid-atlantic textbook in our heads. We did not. We had Laidler and Begg. Fishman knew this in a way - <i>"take it home for revision", he said; "it is a christmasy book"</i>, but he didn't realise that the Keynes-influenced ISLM diagrams were explained one way in lectures, briefly another way in Begg, and a then compared to the current monetarist fashions that were rather opposite in the next bit of Begg. The teaching and testing style did not allow for points of view. We were expected to learn from the textbook as precisely as if we were rehearsing a crime alibi, but the textbook didn't agree with the teaching, so we were stuffed. Meanwhile the lectures were interesting, the classes were theoretical and often based on some kind of 1970s textbook like Samuelson, while students were asked to buy a 1980s textbook called Begg which said why the 1970s one was untrue. We learned an un-true model of how government can manage demand in an economy called an ISLM model. Our textbook gave it a few pages (549-557) explained in a slightly different way and then said why it was silly. I think we were meant to learn the first textbook, which we didn't have, rather than the second one and that our essays would have been marked wrong if we'd used the second. <span face=""></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face="">The range and balance of approaches to teaching has helped me to learn</span></span> To get an idea of how revision classes were taught, search for "<a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=microeconomics+recitation">microeconomics recitation</a>", and multiple choice tests. You'll find sheets of little questions and multiple choice answers. The subjects were the same X-shaped diagrams that students had studied in the first year of A-level, and the first year of the university course. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
One of the lines on the graph moves. Is the new price<input type="checkbox" />186? ? <u>Whatever it says on the damn graph</u>? An incompetent economics professor reaches the second last year of their career. Do they<input type="checkbox" />Do their job as normal? ? <u>Do their job as badly as possible in hope of early retirement</u>? A new economic policy leads to 20,000 redundancies a week in manufacturing during 1979-80. Does the economics professor ? <u>Say "now we believe in monetarist solutions"</u>? <input type="checkbox" />apply economic reasoning to policy issues in a critical way? A university department repeats A-level teaching, then adds a little-bit more on the end. Does the student: <input type="checkbox" />apply economic reasoning to policy issues in a critical way, waking-up at exactly the right moment to hear a new detail ? <u>"it is now accepted wisdom that those with A level Economics do less well in Economics degree results than those without A level "</u> Economists sometimes talk about market failures. Have they heard of ? few sellers, lots of buyers? (Oligopoly, Monopoly)<input type="checkbox" />few buyers, lots of sellers? (Tesco & Sainsburys, farmers)<input type="checkbox" />sellers with only one job, scared if changing too often, and buyers with enough staff to allow staff turnover daily? (most employees and most employers)<input type="checkbox" />sellers of common work skills, competing with many others for jobs, including garment workers in Bangladesh or ceramics workers in China?<input type="checkbox" />pundits with a government grant to say that this is a good thing? Oddly enough, the textbook we didn't read does mention something called "Monopsony" in passing, just to say that it isn't going to mention it. I forget the definition.</blockquote>
I didn't realise that it was possible to run a college course without discussion tutorials. That's what other arts and social science departments did. Somehow, it happened and something similar probably happened on the courses that our current politicians went on. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span face=""></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>The delivery of my course has been stimulating </span></span></div>
<b><span style="color: red;">There was nothing very stimulating about the multiple choice examples. I remember waking-up during one about broiler chickens because Fishman did an unusual thing</span></b><span style="color: red;">.</span> At 5.pm he would interrupt himself half-way through a sentence as a joke about how boring this was. It was funny: I'd like to do the same. But the memory seems odd, as though I must have got something wrong. Why would anyone teach micro-economics without a real-life example? There were plenty of economic statistics to interest students in 1987. My memory is clear and backed-up by other sources: a series of books called <i>"economics workbook"</i> by Peter Smith and David Begg exist in a tradition that writes boring multiple-choice questions about broiler chickens<i>.</i> Fishman could probably have found revision tests written specially for our recommended book - Laidler's <i>Microeconomics</i> - but to save copyright he used some old notes with examples from the Food and Drug Administration of 1950s america. There is also sets of lecture notes for teachers to lecture from if they want. They can be bought alongside textbooks like Saumuelson or Begg. I don't know if Fishman used them, but I remember him saying <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics course"</i> part-way through a lecture. Nowadays <a href="http://connect.mheducation.com/connect/jsp/html/hm/selfstudy.jsp?&BRANDING_VARIANT_KEY=en_us_default_default&node=connect_app_27_200">you can log-on to the McGraw Hill Publications web site</a> and pay an extra £10 on top of the price of a book but maybe save the £9000 cost of hiring a teacher download the notes and read them out to you. Or you could sit in an empty lecture hall an get a machine to read them out for you, maybe charging other people to sit round you if willing to pay. I'm sure there Kirmit frog puppets with text-to-speech software in them. You could re-create the real experience of a 1950s Colorado University Economics lecture. </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A digression about economics textbooks:</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">I have forgotten what I was going to say. Anyway, I am reading Begg's 1984 edition and find it a well-written, well-produced book for someone who knows what to make of it. The chapter on "risk" that ends with the stock market is worth passing-around to anyone interested. The next chapter, "welfare economics", says more about the things it is not allowed to say than anything interesting in the bits left-over. It looks as though the first college divided all the interesting ideas up between the departments, and the economics rep got to the meeting late and had to make-do with what was left-over. I am reading a lot of this for the first time and have not got to the end so shall move-on to another box.</span></span></blockquote>
<div class="SRPCoverBlank" style="display: block; text-align: left;">
<div class="innerBorder">
<div class="BookTitle">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<h1 class="edition" style="text-align: left;">
</h1>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">A digression about economics textbooks: this is the neat, pretend-technocratic, pretend-neutral book that came out in 1948 in the US</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
Keynes edited the Cambridge Economic Handbook series of textbooks, which petered-out in the early 1970s and a clue to the reason is that they are hard to track down; they didn't sell in America. In Canada and the US, "<a href="https://archive.org/details/elementsofeconom030865mbp">The elements of economics</a> - an introduction to the theory of price and employment" by Lorie Tarshis didn't sell much either: it was deliberately boycotted in a campaign by college donors. The first textbook to sell in large numbers had to look neutral and technocratic. This is when a generation economists known for their bow ties and acerbic wit, rather than their ability to talk to students, began writing journal articles like the their narrow notion of a "public good", and the same writer wrote this neat technical-looking textbook. <span style="color: #4c1130;">PART ONE: BASIC ECONOMIC CONCEPT AND NATIONAL INCOME <i>Chapter 1.</i> INTRODUCTION <span style="font-size: xx-small;">3 For Whom the Bell Tolls; Poverty Midst Plenty; Economic Description and Analysis; Economic Policy; Common Sense and Nonsense; Theory versus Practice; The Whole and the Part; Through the Looking Glass.</span> <i>Chapter 2.</i> CENTRAL PROBLEMS OF EVERY ECONOMIC SOCIETY. <span style="font-size: xx-small;">12 A. Problems of Economic Organization 12 Boundaries and Limits to Economics; The Law of Scarcity. B. The Technological Chokes Open to Any Society 17 The Production-possibility or Transformation Curve: Increasing Costs; Economies of Mass Production: Decreasing Costs; The Famous Law of Diminishing Returns. C. The Underlying Population Basis of Any Economy: Past and Future Population Trends 24 The Malthus Theory of Population; America and Europe Face Depopulation; The Net Reproduction Rate. Summery 31</span> <i>Chapter 3.</i> FUNCTIONING OF A "MIXED" CAPITALISTIC ENTERPRISE SYSTEM <span style="font-size: xx-small;">34 A. How A Free-enterprise System Solves the Basic Economic Problems . . 35 Not Chaos but Economic Order; The Price System; Imperfections of competition; Economic Role of Government. ix</span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;">B. The Capitalistic Character of Modem Society Capital and Time; Fixed and Circulating Capital; Capital and Income; Interest and the Real Net Productivity of Capital; Capital and Private Property. C. Exchange, Division of Labor, and Money Barter versus the Use of Money; Commodity Money, Paper Money, and Bank Money; Price Ratios and Money Prices; Money as a Medium of Exchange or as a Unit of Account; Money and Time *</span> <i>Chapter <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9WiuJPnNA&list=PLa7sOtAqbxBn93w5j3cW-iRz-YXZ5jtUX">4</a>.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME 61 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Distribution of Income in the United States; The Inequality of Income; The Decline of Poverty; War Prosperity and Incomes; The So-called "Class Struggle"; Income from Work and from Property; The Render Class in a Decade of Falling Interest Rates; Incomes of Farmers; Wage Incomes from Work; The Position of Minorities. Summary 84</span> <i>Chapter 5.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME: EARNINGS IN DIFFERENT OCCUPATIONS 86 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">The Labor Market's Basement; The Unskilled and Semiskilled Workers; The Skilled Craftsmen; The White-collar Class; Professional Incomes; Is College Worth While?; Economic Stratification and Opportunity. Summary 107</span> <i>Chapter 6.</i> BUSINESS ORGANIZATION AND INCOME 108 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. The Forms of Business Organization 108 The Population of Business Enterprises; Big, Small, and Infinitesimal Business; The Single Proprietorship; Business Growth and the Need for Short-term Capital; The Partnership; Causes of Business Growth; New Needs and Sources of Capital; Disadvantages of the Partnership Form. B. The Modern Corporation 118 Advantages and Disadvantages of the Corporate Form; How a Corporation Can Raise Capital; Bonds; Common Stocks; Preferred Stocks; Advantages of Different Securities; The Giant Corporation; The Evil of Monopoly; Divorce of Ownership and Control in the Large Corporation; Amplification of Control by the Pyramiding of Holding Companies; Leadership and Control of the Large Corporation; The Curse of Bigness? Summary 132</span> Appendix to Chapter 6: Elements of Accounting 134 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">The Balance Sheet; The Statement of Profit and Loss; Depreciation; The Relation between the Income Statement and the Balance Sheet; Earnings, Dividends, and Purchasing Power; Summary of Elementary Accounting Relations; Reserves, Funds, and Intangible Assets; Intangible Assets; Good Will and Monopoly Power. Summary to Appendix 149</span> <i>Chapter 7.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLF. OF GOVERNMENT: EXPENDITURE, REGULATION, AND FINANCE I50 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">The Growth of Government Expenditure; The Growth of Government Controls and Regulation; Federal, Local, and State Functions; Federal Expenditure; Efficiency and Waste in Government; Socialism and the New Deal; Government Transfer Expenditures; Three 'Ways to Finance Expenditure; Financing Government Expenditure by New Money; Financing Deficits by Loan Finance or Borrowing; War Finance; Fiscal Policy during Boom and Depression. Summary 166</span> <i>Chapter 8.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT: FEDERAL TAXATION AND LOCAL FINANCE 168 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Federal Taxation; Sales and Excise Taxes; Social Security, Payroll, and Employment Taxes; Corporation Income Taxes; The Progressive Income Tax; State and Federal Expenditures; State and Local Taxes; Property Tax; Highway User Taxes; Sales Taxes; Payroll and Business Taxes; Personal Income and Inheritance Taxes; Borrowing and Debt Repayment; Coordinating Different Levels of Government. Summary 184</span> <i>Chapter 9.</i> LABOR ORGANIZATION AND PROBLEMS 185 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">History of the American Labor Movement; Craft versus Industrial Unions; Structure of the Labor Movement; Case Study of an AFL Carpenter; Case Study of 2 CIO Industrial Unionist; Case Study of a Labor Lawyer; The Case of the Philanthropic Capitalist; A Congressman's View of the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947; An Expert Looks at the Labor Problem. Summary 199</span> <i>Chapter 10.</i> PERSONAL FINANCE AND SOCIAL SECURITY . . . 201 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Budgetary Expenditure Patterns; Regional Differences in Cost of Living; Family Differences in the Cost of Living; The Backward Art of Spending Money; Income Patterns of Saving and Consumption; Graphical Depiction of the Propensity to Consume and to Save; The Wartime Accumulation of Saving; How People Borrow Money; Government Bonds as a Form of Saving; Investing in Securities; Economics of Home Ownership; Buying Life Insurance; Term Insurance; Straight Life Insurance; Limited Payment Insurance; Endowment Plan; Social Security and Health; Growth of Social Security. Summary 223</span> <i>Chapter 11.</i> NATIONAL INCOME 225 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Two Views: Money Income or Money Output; First View of National Income: Cost and Earnings of Factors of Production; Transfer Payments; Real versus Money Income; Second View of National Income as Net National Product: Final Goods versus Double Counting of Intermediate Goods; Two Problems Introduced by Government; Capital Formation; Gross versus Net Investment; International Aspects of Income; Quantitative Recapitulation of National Income and Product Summary 243</span> PART TWO: DETERMINATION OF NATIONAL INCOME AND ITS FLUCTUATIONS <i>Chapter 12.</i> SAVING AND INVESTMENT 253 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. The Theory of Income Determination 253 The Cleavage between Saving and Investment; The Variability of Investment; The Community's Propensity to Consume and to Save Schedules; How In-come is Determined at Level Where Saving and Investment Schedules Inter-sect; Income Determination by Consumption and Investment; Arithmetical Demonstration of Income Determination. A Third Restatement; The Theory of Income Determination Restated. 8. Applications and Limitations of Income Analysis 265 The "Multiplier"; A Digression on the Identity between Measurable Saving and Measurable Investment; Induced Investment and the Paradox of Thrift; Deflationary and Inflatory Gaps; Taxation and Government Expenditure in Income Analysis; Qualifications to Saving and Investment Analysis. Summary 277</span> <i>Chapter 13.</i> PRICES, MONEY, AND INTEREST RATES 280 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. Prices Inflation, Deflation, and Redistribution of Income between Economic Classes; Effects of Changing Prices on Output and Employment; Galloping Inflation; Goals of Long-term Price Behavior. B. Money and Prices The Three Kinds of Money: Small Coins, Paper Currency, and Bank De-posits; Why Checking Deposits Are Considered to Be Money; The Meaning of the Value of Money as the Reciprocal of the Price Level; How the limita-tion of the Quantity of Money Preserves Its Value and Affects the Price 1evel; The Quantity Theory of Money; Inadequacies of the Quantity Theory : Prices Not Proportional to Total Spending; Inadequacies of the Quantity Theory: Total Spending Not Proportional to the Stock of Money; Relation of Money and Spending to Saving, Investment, and Prices; Conclusion to Money and Prices. C. Money and Interest Rates Three Demands for Money; Transaction Demand for Money; Precautionary Motive; Investment Demand for Money; Money as a Temporary Form of Holding Wealth; Short-term Investments as Near Substitutes for Cash; Money as a Long-term Asset; Money and the Determination of Interest Rates; His-tory of the Capital Markets since 1932; Money and Interest Rate during and after World War II. Summary 306</span> <i>Chapter 14.</i> FUNDAMENTALS OF THE BANKING SYSTEM AND DEPOSIT CREATION 310 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. Nature and Functioning of the Modern Banking System The Present Status of Banking; Creation of the Federal Reserve System; Banking as a Business; How Banks Developed Out of Goldsmith Establish-ments; Modem Fractional Reserve B. The Creation of Bank Deposits Can Banks Really Create Money?; How Deposits Arc Crated; A "Monopoly Bank"; Simultaneous Expansion or Contraction by All Banks; Three Qualifications; Leakage into Hand-to-hand Circulation; Leakage into Bank Vault Cash; Possible Excess Reserves. Summary 333</span> <i>Chapter 15.</i> FEDERAL RESERVE AND CENTRAL BANK MONETARY POLICY 337 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Controlling the Business Cycle by Controlling the Quantity of Money; Brief Preview of How the Reserve Banks Can Affect the Supply of Money; The Federal Reserve Banks' Balance Sheet; Gold Certificates; "Reserve Bank Credit"; Federal Reserve "Open-market" Operations; Loan and Rediscount Policy; Changing Reserve Requirements as a Weapon of Monetary Control; The Problem of "Excess Reserves"; Summary of Reserve Banks' Control over Money; The Pyramid of Credit; War Finance and the Banks; The Inadequacies of Monetary Control of the Business Cycle; Public Debt Management and Monetary Control. Summary 355</span> B. The Public Debt and Postwar Fiscal Policy 424 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Retiring Nonbank Debt; Retiring Bank Debt; The Debt and the Propensity to Consume; Debt Retirement and Interest; The Public Debt and Its Limita-tions; External versus Internal Debt; Borrowing and Shining Economic Bur-dens through Tune; "We All Owe It to Ourselves"; Debt Management and Monetary Policy; The True Indirect Burden of Interest Charges; The Quantitative Problem of the Debt; Useful versus Wasteful Fiscal Policy; A Fundamental Difficulty with full Employment; The Employment Act of 1946 Summary 437 Appendix to Chapter IS: Four Quantitative Paths to Full Employment . 440 Model I: Private Enterprise, Full Employment; Model II: Deficit-spending Path to Full Employment; Model III: Tax-reduction Path to Full Employ-ment; Model IV: Balanced-budget Path to Full Employment</span>. PART THREE: THE COMPOSITION AND PRICING OF NATIONAL OUTPUT <i>Chapter 19.</i> DETERMINATION OF PRICE BY SUPPLY AND DEMAND 447 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. Determination of Market Price 447 The Demand Schedule and the Demand Curve; Elastic and Inelastic Demands; The Supply Schedule; Equilibrium of Supply and Demand. B. Applications of Supply and Demand 457 Effects of Changes in Supply or Demand; A common Fallacy; Is the Law of Supply and Demand Immutable? Prices Fixed by Law. Summary 466 Appendix to Chapter 19: Questions and Problems on Supply and Demand 469 Case I : Constant Cost; Case 2: Increasing Costs and Diminishing Returns; Case 3: Completely Inelastic Supply and Economic Rent; Case 4: A Backward Rising Supply Curve; Case 5: A Possible Exception: Decreasing Cost; Case 6. Shifts in Supply.</span> <i>Chapter 20.</i> THE THEORY OF CONSUMPTION AND DEMAND . . 477 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Theory of Consumer's Choice; Price and Income Changes in Demand; Cross Relations of Demand; Response of Quantity to Own Price; A Fundamental Law of Diminishing Substitution; The Paradox of Value; Consumer's Surplus. Summary 485 Appendix to Chapter 20: Geometrical Analysis of Consumer Equilibrium 487</span> <i>Chapter 21.</i> COST AND THE EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM UNDER PERFECT AND IMPERFECT COMPETITION 491 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. The Maximum Profit Equilibrium Position within the Firm 491 Monopolistic Competition; The Finn's Demand under Perfect and Monopolist Competition; Price, Quantity, and Total Revenue; Total and Marginal Costs; Fixed Costs; Variable Costs; Total Cost; Average Cost: Marginal Cost; Marginal Revenue and Price; Maximizing Profits; Graphical Depiction of Firm's Optimum Position. B. Applications of the Profit Maximizing Principles to Perfect Competition and Patterns of Monopolistic Competition Price and Supply under Perfect Competition; Decreasing Costs and the Break-down of Perfect Competition; Minimizing Losses and Deciding When to Shur Down; Firm and Industry; Price and Cost under Monopolistic Competi-tion; Illustrative Patterns of Price; Chronically Overcrowded Sick Industries; The Case of Few Sellers of Identical Products; Monopolies Maintained by Constant Research and Advertising; Publicly Regulated Monopolies. 503 Sumnury 516</span> <i>Chapter 22.</i> PRODUCTION EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM AND THE PROBLEM OF DISTRIBUTION 518 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. Production Equilibrium of the Firm 519 Final Production Equilibrium: Direct Approach; The Indirect Approach to the Production Equilibrium; The "Production Function"; The Law of Di-minishing Returns Once Again; Combining Inputs Optimally in Order to Produce a Given Output; Final Production Equilibrium: indirect Approach. B. The Marginal Productivity Theory and the "Problem of Distribution" . . 526 Checkal Theories of Rent; The So-called "Marginal Productivity Theory of Distribution"; Can Trade-unions Raise Wages? Keeping Down the Total Number of Laborers; Pushing Up Money Wages in Particular Occupations. Summary 532 Appendix to Chapter 22: Graphical Depiction of Production Equilibrium 534</span> <i>Chapter 23.</i> INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND THE THEORY OF COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE 558 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Diversity of Conditions between Regions or Countries: A Simple Case: Europe and America; America without Trade; Europe without Trade; The Opening Up of Trade; Exact Determination of the Final Price Ratio. Summary Appendix to Chapter 23. Some Qualifications to the Discussion of Comparative Advantage Many Commodities and Countries; Increasing Costs; International Commodity Movements as a Partial Substitute for Labor and Factor Movements; Decreasing Costs and International Trade; Differences in Tastes or Demand as a Reason for Trade; Transportation Costs.</span> <i>Chapter 24.</i> THE ECONOMICS OF TARIFF PROTECTION AND FREE TRADE 559 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Noneconomic Goals; Grossly Fallacious Arguments for Tariff; Keeping Money in the Country; A Tariff for Higher Money Wages; Tariffs for Special-interest Groups; Some Less Obvious Fallacies; A Tariff for Revenue; Tariffs and the Home Market; Competition from Chap Foreign Labor; A Tariff for Retaliation; The "Scientific" Tariff; Arguments for Protection under Dynamic Conditions; Tariffs and Unemployment; Tariffs for "Infant Industries"; The "Young Economy" Argument. Summary 569</span> <i>Chapter 25.</i> THE DYNAMICS OF SPECULATION AND RISK 570 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Speculation and Price Behavior over Time; The Great Stock-market Crash; Gambling and Diminishing Utility; Economics of Insurance; What Can be in-sured?; Joint Public and Private Responsibilities. Summary 582</span> <i>Chapter 26.</i> SOCIAL MOVEMENTS AND ECONOMIC WELFARE. 584 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">A. Fascism, Communism, and Socialism 584 The Crisis-of Capitalism; A Bouquet of Isms; Fascism; Marxian Communism and Soviet Russia; Socialism; Political Freedom and Economic Control. B. The Use of An Over-all Pricing System under Socialism and Capitalism . 590 Review of Free Competitive Pricing; The Concept of General Equilibrium; Pricing in a Socialist State: Consumption Goods Prices; The Distribution of In-come; Pricing of Nonhuman Productive Resources; The Example of Land Rent; The Role of the Interest Rate in a Socialist State; Wage Rates and Incentive Pricing; Su ry of Socialist Pricing; Welfare Economics in a Free-enterprise Economy. Summary 603</span> <i>Chapter 27.</i> EPILOGUE 606 Index 609 SUGGESTED OUTLINE FOR A ONE-SEMESTER COURSE <i>Chapter 1.</i> INTRODUCTION <i>Chapter 2.</i> THE CENTRAL PROBLEMS OF EVERY ECONOMIC SOCIETY A. Problems of Economic Organization B. The Technological Choices Open to Any Society C. The Underlying Population Basis of Any Economy: Past and Future Population Trends <i>Chapter 3.</i> FUNCTIONING OF A "MIXED" CAPITALISTIC ENTERPRISE SYSTEM A. How a Free Enterprise System Solves the Basic Economic Problems B. The Capitalistic Character of Modern Society C. Exchange, Division of Labor, and Money <i>Chapter 4.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME <i>Chapter 5.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME, CONTINUED: EARNINGS IN DIFFERENT OCCUPATIONS <i>Chapter 6.</i> BUSINESS ORGANIZATION AND INCOME A. The Forms of Business Organization B. The Modern Corporation Appendix: Elements of Accounting: <i>Chapter 19.</i> DETERMINATION OF PRICE BY SUPPLY AND DEMAND A. Determination of Market Price B. Applications of Supply and Demand <i>Chapter 21.</i> COST AND EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM UNDER PERFECT AND IMPERFECT COMPETITION A. The Maximum Profit Equilibrium Position within the Firm B. Applications of the Profit Maximizing Principles to Perfect Competition and Patterns of Monopolistic Competition. <i>Chapter 7.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT: EXPENDITURE, REGULATION, AND FINANCE <i>Chapter 8.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT, CONTINUED: FEDERAL TAXATION AND LOCAL FINANCE <i>Chapter 9.</i> LABOR ORGANIZATION AND PROBLEMS <i>Chapter 10.</i> PERSONAL FINANCE AND SOCIAL SECURITY <i>Chapter 11.</i> NATIONAL INCOME <i>Chapter 12.</i> SAVING AND INVESTMENT A. The Theory of Income Determination B. Applications and Limitations of Income Analysis <i>Chapter 13.</i> PRICES, MONEY, AND INTEREST RATES A. Prices B. Money and Prices C. Money and Interest Rates <i>Chapter 14.</i> FUNDAMENTALS OF THE BANKING SYSTEM AND DEPOSIT CREATION A. Nature and Functioning of the Modern Banking System B. The Creation of Bank Deposits Chapter 15. FEDERAL RESERVE AND CENTRAL BANK MONETARY POLICY (OPTIONAL) <i>Chapter 16.</i> INTERNATIONAL FINANCE AND DOMESTIC EMPLOYMENT A. International Trade and Capital Movements B. Postwar International Trade and Full Employment <i>Chapter 18.</i> FISCAL POLICY AND FULL EMPLOYMENT WITHOUT IN FLATION A. Short-run and Long-run Fiscal Policy B. The Public Debt and Postwar Fiscal Policy.</span></fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">6. Feedback from Students</span></span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span face=""></span>I have had adequate opportunities to provide feedback on all elements of my course.</span> <input type="checkbox" /><span style="color: red;"> </span> <span face="">My feedback on the course is listened to and valued.</span> <input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""><span face=""></span>It is clear to me how students comments on the course have been acted upon.</span></span> </h4>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers take deliberate steps to engage all students, individually and collectively, as partners in the assurance and enhancement of their educational experience. - Quality Assurance Agency</span> Expectation</i></blockquote>
This is frustrating because <i>"listened to and valued"</i> are such patronising phrases; <i>"attempts to understand and agree or disagree"</i> make more sense. The course is also a process from being a non student, to being a not-able-or-want-to-be-student, or joining a college with staff, to being an ex-student. Current students are only one constituency. There was some kind of feedback meeting and a survey on my English course, but Economics was more stretched, trying to teach theory first with <i>"face time"</i>, hour after hour. So there was not much point in the Economics department asking for feedback - they had plenty of ideas what to do, and no time to do them, so feedback would just have raised expectations and reduced time even more for the good bits towards the end of the course. I suppose it's always a bit like this in Economics, even if there haven't just been 34% funding cuts as at Keele, and so maybe Economics lecturers get stuck in their circular trains of thought like <i>"economics is ... therefore economics is".</i> There was no way to feed-back on something the boss said in a revision lecture - <i>"we have to teach this stuff - in less than half your time - in order to call this an economics course".</i> I never discovered whether this was true and if so how so, which was a pity because <i>"this stuff"</i> was a load of crap and if I'd known so in advance, I would have opted for some other course called <i>"economic studies"</i> or <i>"economics just the good bits"</i>. There was a feedback book in the main library, which said the same on every page. The library was a bit run down for lack of maintenance money, like every other part of the campus, but it didn't matter. Comment: <i>The clocks tell the wrong time.</i> Response: <i>The clocks are not the responsibility of library staff. Altering the time on the clocks is the responsibility of the maintenance department.</i> Next page: same thing again. How someone can be so thick as to write that as a response is a lesson of some kind, but I am no sure what. There was an idea of involving student reps on the Senate, to do something about the courses. I know that from the history book <i>Keele - the First 50 Years</i>, and a chance scan that turned up on the net, but didn't know it at the time. Just by chance, a student called <i>Education and Welfare Officer</i> went-on to write <i><a href="http://priceoffish.info/">The Price of Fish</a> - a new approach to wicked economics</i>, and writes a blog to promote his business including a scanned letter mentioning just that. It mentioned that he'd made a speech to the Senate of staff about short economics courses, and that was a good thing. I don't know that at the time and didn't take part in any survey or discussion. Then about the time I left, the staff Senate was sidelined by being asked to meet less often. The new boss was more interested in the government funding body than staff or students - I saw him bellowing to a group of students once on the concourse, on no particular authority, telling them to clean up their mess or not get a degree. I overheard one or two strained phone calls to staff as well. So that was the new system that began in the 80s: courtiers ran quangos for funding bodies. There was no formal feedback system of any kind that I remember - only informal. And informal contact between staff and students was not encouraged on the core course. I conclude that I was not on some weird psychology experiment: <i>"the control group of students were taught random nonsense, and their feedback was compared to students from the real economics course before different feedback scores were obtained".</i> That didn't happen. If that had been true, there would have been a system of feedback from students. The only formal feedback request came some time in the 2000s as some kind of fund-raising phone call to graduates. I'm not sure how Keele got my number - I must be on linkedin or something. The voice asked if I wanted to subscribe to Keele graduates magazine. No, it's OK if I don't want the magazine or to make a donation, said the voice; that was fine. Had done anything to put in the magazine? What subjects did I do? What did I think of them? There were plenty of other attempts to get feedback from students that started in the 20-tens. I have not read a <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20101230042434/http://qaa.ac.uk/reviews/reports/institutional/keele2004/RG072KeeleUni.pdf">Quality Assurance Commission report giving Keele a thumbs-up in 2004, subject to reforms of the time continuing</a>, but I suppose it says that systems for checking course quality were set-up and auditable by the 20-tens. I don't know what other people said, or the sequence of events, but Keele's vice chancellor decided to close the German department in 2004, and that she wasn't fit to manage an Economics or a Philosphy department in about 2008, that no more students should be recruited, and staff made redundant. The system was that if Keele's hierachy are unfit to manage an economics department, they should keep their jobs and the teaching staff should mostly be redundant; that's how the world works. Also about that time, Fishman Senior died in 2008 and Fishman junior must have been diagnosed with cancer because she died in December 2009. She wasn't easily discouraged from going to meetings or proposing things - in fact that's probably how she got cancer after too many fags behind the bike sheds after annoying meetings. She had even persuaded one of the British Communist Parties that wokers' control and Clause 4 meant a John Lewis style ownership of more individual firms by staff, which is a good idea. Some time about 2008, she did some rather sweet and brave things. She wrote obituaries of her father, who she seems to have believed was a great man, and sent them to the big newspapers. That's not usually how it happens. Surprised at his memorable story, some of them published, and the assumption that a great man had done his job as an economics professor was implied. And she endowed a thousand-a-year scholarship to Keele economics students in his memory, which must have cost £10-£20,000 out of her will. The terms of the scholarship show what a terrible sense of hierarchy the Fishmans had: it gives a thousand pounds to the local student with the best marks; the one who conforms best to what the teachers mark correct. It's enough to stop any local 18 year-old wanting to study economics at Keele. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<i>Congratulations go to Nathan Farrell, one of our Economics students, for being awarded the ‘Leslie and Eleanor Fishman bursary’ in memory of Professor Les Fishman who was Professor of Economics at Keele from 1969 to1987.The bursary is given to a first year student from the local area with the highest overall grade in Economics. Nathan is pictured here, happy to receive his cheque for £1,000 – Well Done Nathan!</i></blockquote>
He looks more embarrassed than happy in the picture. If an employer wrote something like that , anyone would guess it to be the McDonalds University in North London, which is a catering college; the statement isn't proper university stuff and <i>"grades"</i> is an american word. There's another similar web page with another year's beneficiary, sitting in a posed group with banners each side to promote positive messages like <i>"onward and upward"</i>, <i>"forward to the future", "everything is better than average" -</i> the sort of thing that a university PR department ought to discourage, but when times are hard people try anything. I suppose Fishman's reputation had already gone-around local schools, decades before the bursary, and that's why there was trouble recruiting local students. I expect local parents had said to students <i>"why are we redundant and most of the factories closed?"</i>, and local Keele Economics students had said to their parents: <i>"There's a man like Kermit the Frog who reads out exercise questions so we learn how to get marks - but he avoids talking about factory closures or says stupid things".</i> If the college wants to recruit local 18-year-olds to study, then it ought to use his biography as a good historical exibit, which it is, and excuse for saying how much more university-like the teaching now is, and less McDonalds-like. An excuse to say what rather good things have been taught to Keele Economics students and what rather embarassing things have been taught because the system of short courses brings-out the worst in a teaching tradition if things go wrong. You will have gathered that the department still exists and it seems a pity that the group who did some of the best economics teaching had to take the blame for some of the worst, done during the 70s and 80s. It would have been better if there had been some kind of feedback system at the time. I remember giving one piece of feedback. It was in 1985, the year when Fort Dunlop's new owners ceased mass production because <i>"imported cars come with the tyres already on"</i>. The second year drew to a close and something extra was taught on the end of the A-level syllabus. A-level in 1979 ended with the <a href="http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Global_economics/Phillips_curve.html">Phillips Curve</a> along which post war governments had chosen how much growth to inject into the economy by creating extra demand. As this borrowed money circulated, it raised employment and as employment of people reached some comfortable low rate, there was more inflation. Employment was assumed to be employment of people; the capacity of an economy to produce wasn't much measured and at A-level we had to take it for granted. The course ended by saying that the curve was no longer true; the 70s oil crisis had led to stagnation and inflation at the same time. Demand management was no longer an option and economists had to start thinking about supply management instead. I suppose that 1970s textbooks ended by explaining demand management. The theories of extra income in a closed economy and a bit of money going for saving can be written as a curve called IS. A more nebulous, theoretical curve for "LM" or the money supply cuts accross it. The 1984 course textbook explained why this nebulous money theory could no longer be taught from a textbook and simply listed some different opinions, including a short quote given to a treasury select committee, so that readers could "follow the debate". It is an area where you'd expect some interaction with students and feeback about whether Thatcherite monetary policy was taught in a critical way. One teacher - Dr Johns - was allocated a class room with tables arranged like the cabinet room in Downing Street, as a big long double row. Just like other departments. I suppose he wasn't used to this because, unlike prime ministers, he sat down at one end of the cabinet table instead of the middle. That put him close enough for students to talk and I was the closest. He was teaching something like <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614023101/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/teaching/allmod.htm">course 306 on this much-expanded syllabus</a> that would be used a few years later. Outsiders would have called it a course in knowledge more than understanding, with an emphasis on knowing what the usual abbreviations were on textbook graphs rather than whether they related to the world outside the window. There was a graph called an AS AD model (in a closed economy), which is just the usual X-shaped diagram with "aggregate" written before demand and supply, and then a graph called an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS%E2%80%93LM_model">ISLM</a> model (in a closed economy), <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">Kieth Smith's, <i>The British Economic Crisis,</i> page 170</a> gives an explanation, with the second appearing to prove the first one a waste of very scarce time in order to make room for whatever was easy to teach as part of the routine, like stats or revision classes. Kieth Smith's book says <i>"It is relatively simple, for example, to open up the model to include foreign trade and the balance of payments"</i>, but I'm still waiting to be taught that part. The other textbook we'd been asked to buy for revision - Begg - mentions the model between page 548 and 557 before going-on to say how different and nebulous the views of monetary policy are. Now this is odd, because the teacher was a graduate with an MA and teaching experience, who had given lectures about another debunkable theory on foreign trade. He taught at a time when every newspaper and news program covered the flood of imports that was closing UK manufacturing because of a high pound. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
Further, in the words of academic economist Michael Joffe, economists teach <i>“theories now known to be untrue”</i> (Joffe, 2011). These include: <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>the U-shaped cost curve<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>(and marginal pricing in general),<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>expected utility theory,<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Real Business Cycle explanations of recessions.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
In our experience, lecturers often note in passing - or if questioned - that these theories are not particularly illuminating, yet they remain on the curriculum.</blockquote>
I asked him whether he needed to teach un-true models or whether we could get-on to the true models. The Keele versions of the <i>"not particularly illuminating"</i> quote were <i>"underwhelming"</i> and <i>"nothing earth-shattering"</i>. He gave a reply that I didn't like about his choice of teaching method, which I suppose was the only choice he had, and needing to study the IS model and the ISLM model to get a full understanding. I still don't understand, though; a model of demand management needs supply to meet it. It needs a way of coping with imports from economies that follow different rules. I'm sure he didn't mean that his teaching method promoted understanding. <a href="http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/other/monetary/montrans.pdf">A brief by the Bank of England for MPs</a> is for enthusiasts only, written in dense two column text, but it helps MPs understand the transmission mechanism. Our textbook at the time was also written in dense two column text and had a bit of everything in it - there might have been a bit that tried to explain transmission mechanisms. This course was purely what inspectors would call knowledge or teachers call cramming or students call boring - it was a course about what shorthand to use on a standard graph and how to write the right answer in an exam. <b>"attitude has been noted"</b> Another teacher later informed me that my <i>"attitude has been noted by all members of the department"</i>. The first one checked later that I had been told. Memory is hazy here. I would have remembered if the <i>"noted"</i> incident was linked to the <i>"how are you getting on?"</i> interview at the time; they were probably separate, so my interview was quite likely meant for someone else who's attitude had been noted. <i>"All members of the department"</i> is funny too. There is a corridor with loads of doors. You see some members of the department in big lectures and some in smaller events, but never the lot; most doors and names remain a mystery, so maybe I should remember an add-on like <i>"all members of the department who have seen you in smaller groups but not talked to you and by the way that summons was for someone else".</i> Further up the page is says that <i>"I asked him".</i> This was a private man to web references or academic writing, although one student co-wrote a history of Guernsey financial institutions with him and apparently the man got something published in NatWest Quarterly Review. I don't know if this teacher was on first name terms with his office door, but he was not willing to have his photo on the <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614080329/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/people/tonyj.htm">web site</a> ten years later. I don't know why so shy, and how much this was connected to his speciality of development economics, which I give a theory about below. Anyway I must have struck-on something beyond a desire to keep a distance. Did staff realise early-on that they were going to cancel parts of the course? I guess they did, and had decided to string-out their textbook classes as long as possible as well, just to fill some kind of gap. Economics teachers are good at stringing-out the introduction until it's too late to realise that there's no point to the course at the end - you read about it in other peoples' accounts of other economics courses. Another odd thing about these classes on second-hand accounts of ISLM curves. I'm not sure which chapter of the textbook they came from, but the most likely one has a paragraph inserted and unrelated, right at the top of <i>"monetary and fiscal policy in a closed economy"</i>, is a kind of SOS message that I would have been interested in. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Between June 1979 and December 1980",</i> it says<i>, "there was a sharp contraction of aggregate demand in the UK. In consequence, manufacturing output slumped by 16 percent. Believing that this slump would continue for some time, firms slashed purchases of raw materials and sacked workers in large numbers. And, on behalf of its member firms, the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) sent a clear message to the government: get interest rates down in order to get the economy moving again".</i> Then there is a complete change of style: <i>"In this chapter we extend the simple model of income determination developed in chapters 20 and 21..."</i></blockquote>
If a teacher had quoted that out of the textbook, I would have remembered it, but he did not. I suppose the <i><b>ISLM</b></i> curve means something a bit like the Bank of England flow diagram about monetary policy, but it's hard to make any sense of it without a context and facts so I never quite got the hang at the time. Since finding another textbook on my shelf, with revision notes, I see that I must have got the hang by the end of the course but I never thought it was a useful set of graphs or what I had come to study with years of my life and thousands of pounds of funding. If <b><i>IS</i></b> means income and savings, and the Cambridge Economics Handbook series that Keynes edited had a book called <i>"supply and demand"</i>, it's a fair guess that he argued that UK peoples' combined income is about the same as UK demand, give or take savings. He lived in a time when the UK economy provided more of its own goods, with a lot of medium-sized manufacturing firms. There were a lot of people with money held in government stock for savings; it was the fashionable thing. I suppose he tried to put those two facts together. Keynes wrote a <i>"General Theory"</i> for other economists and edited the <i>"Economics Handbook"</i> series for people on short courses and the general public. In the UK economy, the general public do a lot of importing and exporting, so it matters whether a policy causes change demand in UK or Asia, but in the USA it might be easier to ignore imports and exports for the sake of a clear diagram. If you publish this <i><b>ISLM</b></i> diagram in the UK, you'd title the chapter <i>"monetary and fiscal policy in a closed economy"</i>, as the Begg textbook does, but I don't remember this point being taught very much even though the Felixtowe container port and fiddled exchange rates had opened the UK market to imports more than ever before. I don't know what feedback had been valued and acted-upon in the past, but I know that something was brewing because a <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614023101/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/teaching/allmod.htm#e100">1996 syllabus</a> writes <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4>
<i>Econ 101, Introduction to Economic Theory</i> </h4>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><br />
<br />
<i>This is a compulsory course module providing an introduction to basic economics principles. The course takes three hours per week, consisting of two lectures per week, one for an introduction to Microeconomics, and the other to cover an introduction to Macroeconomics, plus an hour per week class to service the lecture streams. <b>The aim is to introduce Economics in the analytical manner commonly adopted at University level. (Students should be aware that it is now accepted wisdom that those with A level Economics do less well in Economics degree results than those without A level Economics.)</b></i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
Clearly there has been student feedback and a decision reached to warn new students with a brave statement that this is more analytical. How was my algebra-junkie course analytical? Nerdy, yes; untrue, yes, analytical, no. Oh, on another subject, if you are the man overheard in a restaurant in Kew saying <i>"all the stats show is that people are doing their job ... yes there is a long tail and some places are failing ... Blackburn",</i> I didn't want to walk-up to your table and say anything. <br />
<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>The burden of assessment is from college managers, who should survey less. National student survey questions are only asked to students about once by Ipsos Mori.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
<li>The few failing colleges would be more if there wasn't a test.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</li>
</ol>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><b><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;">7. Physical Environment</span></span></b></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>Security has been satisfactory when attending classes.</span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><input type="checkbox" /> <span face="">My institution provides an appropriate environment in which to learn</span>.</span> A campus university is a dull, quiet place to contemplate, but computing was a problem. I've said that printed statistics were kept in an obscure departmental library, securely away from anyone who studied other subjects or most undergraduates. Computers were even better secured, locked away from students to prevent use. This is not an appropriate environment to learn from original sources. I am sure that a polite request to use the computers would get a helpful response, but I doubt it ever happened; the student would have to have Acorn computer stats software to hand and some stats to process with it. If computers had been meant for student use, and not for show, they would have been in the main library or the computer science department, open all evening with heating and security. Anyone visiting the department would have seen it set-up for small lectures and not university-standard teaching, so I suppose nobody visited except staff and students; the grandee who came-up from London between jobs at the Royal Opera House just phoned staff while they were teaching instead of visiting. There was also the problem of distractions. A Kirmit-weatherman at the end of the room, trying to teach platitudes is not good if you want to study economics. The people on the course might have done better if left to themselves in the library. A third might have learned more; two thirds might have dropped-out and found happier lives.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">10. Assessment</span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span>Teaching staff test what I have understood rather than what I have memorised</span>.</span> <span face=""><span style="color: #990000;"><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span></span> Assessment methods employed in my course require an in-depth understanding of the course content.</span></span>The workbook example tests were marked by multiple choice which required some understanding of memorised technique. I think we marked our own sheets; the answers were on the back. There were essays. Some of the optional essay titles in the exam were broad, like a question about the effects of an ageing population, but these were not subjects much taught except in lectures. The essay titles that related to class-teaching, that I remember, asked closed questions, even if the title didn't suggest so at first-glance. So <i>"What is a public good?"</i> meant <i>"What does a journal article written in the 1960s say about why lighthouses and roads deserve this special jargon term?"</i> If you wrote <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good">the official answer to a closed question, and then added some extra ideas as wikipedia does</a>, then the official answer was marked right and the others were simply marked wrong. You had to learn this from experience; nobody warned you. Not quite as bad as the Glasgow uni. essay which is given 100% if handed-in on time, but still a depressing experience to take part in. I don't remember any careful feedback at all; you just learnt from experience that wrote-learning of a particular view of the world was marked right and original ideas were marked wrong. I don't remember any feedback on essays, written or verbal. My memory may be unclear, but a department that maximises face-to-face time with students in classes is unlikely to have any staff time left-over for feedback; if they spent so many more hours face-to-face with students than my English department, then I doubt they could have had time to give careful feedback on essays. Come the exams, a few essay titles were slipped-in to the list that had open questions like <i>"should we be worried about an ageing population?".</i> I suppose they were there to look good to external examiners. I had a go at answering one or two but have no idea how they were marked because we didn't questions like that in the main course. Looking at recommended standards for awarding degrees, I'm surprised that most of us got one.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000; font-size: medium;"><span face="">11. Learning Community</span></span> </h3>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>I feel part of a group of students committed to learning.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face=""><span face=""></span>I have been able to explore academic interests with other students.</span></span> <span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">I have learnt to explore ideas confidently within my course <span face=""></span></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>I feel my suggestions <span face="">&</span> ideas are valued</span> <span face=""></span></span><span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> <span face=""></span>I feel part of an academic community in my college or university</span></span> <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<span style="color: #741b47;"><i>Some of the attributes that a graduate in economics possesses are generic...</i> <i>general intellectual skills such as literary and information-processing skills, as well as</i> <i>interpersonal skills... the ability to communicate technical analysis and results to various non economist audiences - Quality Assurance Agency</i></span> <span style="color: #741b47;"><i><b>Seminar:</b> A discussion or classroom session focusing on a particular topic or project. Seminars are defined as sessions that provide the opportunity for students to engage in discussion of a particular topic and/or to explore it in more detail than might be covered in a lecture - the extent of interaction will depend on the delivery method. A typical model would involve a guided, tutor-led discussion in a small group. However, the term also encompasses student or peer-led classes with a staff member or affiliate present. <b>Tutorial:</b> A meeting involving one-to-one or small group supervision, feedback or detailed discussion on a particular topic or project. Tutorials may be distinguished from seminars for the stronger emphasis that they place on the role of the tutor in giving direction or feedback. Tutorials can happen virtually as well as face-to-face. - Quality Assurance Agency</i></span></blockquote>
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /> I feel part of a group of students committed to learning.</span></span> I didn't know anyone on the course; I don't know what they were there for and doubt that many of us was sure. <span style="color: red;"><span face=""><br />
</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;"><span face="" style="color: red;"><DIGRESSION ON ENDING-UP></span><br />
<br />
I wanted to study industrial design. There was a carers master at school one afternoon a week, in between being a housemaster and a teacher. He sat in a room and if nobody visited he did marking or arranged the leaflets. He didn't copy the popular leaflets, so they ran-out, but I liked the unpopular ones. Swan Hunter wanted marine architects, assuming that a good candidate knew how to qualify to become one - I had no way of finding out. Another leaflet said <i>"At British Leyland you can say 'I did <u>that</u>' ". </i></span><br />
<br />
I wanted to be an industrial designer because I wanted to design machines or production lines or some related kind of job. When you're a teenager you only know the idea of being a designer; you don't know about being a pattern cutter for clothing or whatever the equivalent job is at a car factory. So I asked the careers master how to study Industrial Design. If had had something like the National Careers Service Guide online in 2019, he would have read<br />
<br />
<i>"You could do a foundation degree, higher national diploma or degree to get into this career. Useful subjects include: design, product design, industrial product design, engineering<br /><br />You could also do a course covering a particular industry, which has design options. Examples include automotive engineering and furniture design.<br /><br />You'll usually need:<br />1 or 2 A levels for a foundation degree or higher national diploma<br />2 to 3 A levels for a degree"</i><i><br /></i><i><br /></i>At the time there was <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnics_Central_Admissions_System">a system called ADAR and there was a new central system just starting-up for polytechnic courses</a>, The difficulty was finding-out about it. This is what the careers teacher said:<i><br /></i><i><br /></i> <i>"Industrial Design is taught at art colleges and the difficulty is getting some art-work to show them. Do you have <u>something</u>?"</i><br />
<i><br /></i>Well I had two strange pots from Pottery done at age 16 or 17. Somehow the adults around me found the name of St Martins College and how to apply. They also guessed how bad this careers advice was, and double-checked. My parents cornered the advisor at a school open day and asked if there was any more advice available. No.<br />
<i><br />"The important thing is that they have <u>something</u>", </i>he said looking guilty; <i>"something to aim at"</i>, while the important thing for the school was to sound posh and say how many children went to University, so everyone was signed-up for the Uni admissions system and other options weren't mentioned. My parents tracked-down an ex teacher with a bit more sense and asked if he had any standard notes, but they were just about choosing preferences between plate glass universities to study nobody knew what. <i>"Reading: The town is the problem"</i> was one note. The prospectuses were tiny. A lot of people studied law because it was one of the few trade subjects that universities taught.<br />
<i><br /></i>So I went to St Martins College with my pots from Pottery, and asked if they taught about mass production. No. The person didn't look embarrassed to say so. She didn't ask if I had tried to buy a large second hand plastic moulding machine but didn't have anywhere to put it. The subject didn't come-up. Industrial design courses like this didn't teach about moulding. It seems strange but there is backup in an <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/jun/25/martin-hunt-obituary">account of a similar college a few decades earlier</a>. Someone studied Pot. Then a second degree about Pot. That's weird. Only then did he first see a mold, which is weirder. So he wasn't trained to take-over a factory or set-up a factory, and he wasn't trained to buy from a factory that paid for things like art colleges either. The obituary shows a strange disregard for the idea of buying from a democratic welfare state as wellI have to admit that I would still have trouble talking about how to mould ceramics. My knowledge of molding ceramics comes only from Wikipedia, and wouldn't have been much better if I'd studied sculpture at St Martins College. Even if they'd allowed me to. If I'd known how to get to a technical college, it would not have mattered that I flunked my A-levels because technical colleges were less choosy, but I didn't know, and they were called Polytechnics and had a different admissions system; usually you had to know about them and apply to each one separately. I fell-back on the system that everyone else from school tended to do, which was choosing a university place through the shared entrance system called UCAS that handled all the applications - three per person - and a clearing system by which colleges could make-offers to anyone left-over. I tried ringing UCAS (which was called UCCA at the time and only handled about two thirds of colleges - the ones called universities) to find out more about courses, but got no reply; apparently the system involved ringing universities themselves but I didn't know that.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I didn't quite get the point of universities, which were all talk about talk. I suppose that if you know how to make a good living, it;'s good to study Plato or Eng Lit or go travelling in Thailand, and so that is why the less technical colleges are seen as classy. People who don't need a technical education go to them before breezing-on to a career they would have done anyway. If you are not so sure how to earn a living it is good to mix those subjects with something technical like Industrial Design, which is what I wanted to do but wasn't on offer. I had applied to some university some point because everyone else did, and forgotten about it. Then with flunked exam results I got an offer of Keele Foundation Year through the UCAS admissions system. If I had taken an A-level in Seething, some university I would have done quite well, but I did History, Economics, Nuffield Physics and flunked one or two of them. The options I knew about were Keele or stay on the dole.<br />
<br />
Keele Foundation Year was a misfit invention that could have been an alternative to A-level but became a second-chance for people who flunked A-level. It did not need to be as selective as other courses for that reason, and the Keele idea was to maximise the number of Foundation Year students, for the public good, to encourage subject-mixing. They could have got much better-qualified students, easier to teach. They chose not to. The catch for students was studying for four years on a small campus out of town. "It was Keele Foundation Year or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wales,_Lampeter">Lampeter</a>", was a common thing to hear at Keele. Lampeter was the other last resort before polytechnics shared an admissions system. It is a cluster of teaching buildings on the back of a rainy Welsh mountain, next to a dry villiage, four hours on the coach from anywhere different with no chance of hitchiking. Lecturers have failed to attract many students there since 1822 and those that went were often taking-up an offer as a last resort.There is no motorway service station at Lampeter for escape. Once you are captive there, you are billeted <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wales,_Lampeter#Academic_departments">next to a lot of theology studentst</a>. Maybe they do human sacrifice a well: I don't know. The only respectable Alumni on their website is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Paphides">Peter Paphedes</a> the music critic who must have hidden in his headphones the entire time here was there.<br />
<br />
Anyway, I didn't get an offer from Lampeter. Keele sounded nice and allowed subject-changing and I could hitchike there from London and get back into economics at a time when economists were pulling the UK economy apart, apparently deliberately to close UK manufacturing. Who wouldn't want to find out how to argue back? It would be like studying Marine Architecture on the Titanic as it sank; it would be an expert view with minds concentrated by events.<br />
<br />
Where were we? <br />
<br />
Did I feel part of a group of students committed to learning.<span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;">I didn't quite get the point of universities, which were all talk about talk. I suppose that if you know how to make a good living, it;'s good to study Plato or Eng Lit or go travelling in Thailand, and so that is why the less technical colleges are seen as classy. People who don't need a technical education go to them before breezing-on to a career they would have done anyway. If you are not so sure how to earn a living it is good to mix those subjects with something technical like Industrial Design, which is what I wanted to do but wasn't on offer. I had applied to some university some point because everyone else did, and forgotten about it. Then with flunked exam results I got an offer of Keele Foundation Year through the UCAS admissions system. If I had taken an A-level in Seething, some university I would have done quite well, but I did History, Economics, Nuffield Physics and flunked one or two of them. The options I knew about were Keele or stay on the dole.</span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;">Keele Foundation Year was a misfit invention that could have been an alternative to A-level but became a second-chance for people who flunked A-level. It did not need to be as selective as other courses for that reason, and the Keele idea was to maximise the number of Foundation Year students, for the public good, to encourage subject-mixing. They could have got much better-qualified students, easier to teach. They chose not to. The catch for students was studying for four years on a small campus out of town. <i>"It was Keele Foundation Year or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wales,_Lampeter">Lampeter</a>"</i>, was a common thing to hear at Keele. Lampeter was the other last resort before polytechnics shared an admissions system. It is a cluster of teaching buildings on the back of a rainy Welsh mountain, next to a dry villiage, four hours on the coach from anywhere different with no chance of hitchiking. Lecturers have failed to attract many students there since 1822 and those that went were often taking-up an offer as a last resort.There is no motorway service station at Lampeter for escape. Once you are captive there, you are billeted <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wales,_Lampeter#Academic_departments">next to a lot of theology studentst</a>. Maybe they do human sacrifice a well: I don't know. The only respectable Alumni on their website is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Paphides">Peter Paphedes</a> the music critic who must have hidden in his headphones the entire time here was there.</span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;">Anyway, I didn't get an offer from Lampeter. Keele sounded nice and allowed subject-changing and I could hitchike there from London and get back into economics at a time when economists were pulling the UK economy apart, apparently deliberately to close UK manufacturing. Who wouldn't want to find out how to argue back? It would be like studying Marine Architecture on the <i>Titanic</i> as it sank; it would be an expert view with minds concentrated by events.</span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;">Where were we? </span><span face="" style="color: red;"><br /></span><span face="" style="color: red;">Did I feel part of a group of students committed to learning.</span></blockquote>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<span face=""><span style="color: red;"><br /></span></span>
<span face=""><span style="color: red;"></DIGRESSION ON ENDING-UP></span></span> <br />
<br />
We faced forwards, as in an exam, and had no reason to speak; it was an embarassing place to be seen. <a href="https://widget.unistats.ac.uk/Widget/10004063/L101-UBEC/vertical/small/en-GB/FullTime">Not as embarassing as London School of Economics</a>, acording to Unistats, but still quite embarassing. I didn't know anyone on the three year course that taught a coach-load of students each year. There was a friend-of-a-friend who might nod or grunt or say hullo, and someone who hooked-up to compare revision notes at the end. That was it. No great surprise to a an ex-boarder with an anxiety problem and a purple leopardskin sweatshirt, but I don't think anyone else felt part of a student group committed to learning, so, in a way, the system made me more equal. <br />
<br />
In English, I remember faces. In Economics and Computer Science, not: we faced forwards.<br />
<br />
In English and Politics, I remember other peoples' contributions as you remember past colleagues. Scenes. Snatches of conversation. The person who was interested in Uncle books; the person from Nigeria who carried a copy of Cosmopolitan and worried about her weight. <br />
<br />
<i>"should you could ride a bicycle?"<br />
"an excercise bicycle?"</i><br />
<br />
That was politics <br />
<br />
In English I got befriended by someone who was so straightforward about being friendly that, at that age, I had not yet learned how to be pompous and keep a distance and avoid opportunities. A monkey boy who let me follow him around. I even learned about how more sensible and more heterosexual people behaved, because he let me follow him into the study-bedroom of a clique sometimes, and listen to The Doors, and discuss the world. That kind of thing was much more important than learning how to be Chancellor of the Exchequor if I ever grew-up, but I was interested in both and wanted to feel part of a group of students committed to learning.<br />
<br />
Economics students look different to English students. Most of them boys in my year. More local accents. Shorter hair and shorter names than English students. I exect that all economics students are called <i>"Tim"</i>. They look like people who join a sports clubs, rather than people who listen to music. There are a lot of people at universities who look as though they belong to sports clubs, which is a bit wierd and I don't know why. Maybe they want higher education as an excuse to play sport, and it anyone questions the choice they quote the economics text book that says they'll be paid more later-on.<br />
<br />
I remember looking at lists of universities - before flunking A levels - and saw that there was one which taught industrial design. Just one. Sharing a campus with a lot of trainee gym teachers for three years, which I guess is better than sharing with theology students, but not much better. Nor sharing a department with "management" in the title. If you have work experience, then the way organisations work is interesting. If you are a school leaver on a higher education course in management, then it could be useful but it's no good for attracting other students. It is not something you would mention on a dating agency. Nobody would expect to meet the next Jim Morrison in a department with "management" in the title.<br />
<br />
Keele was advertised as offering mixed subjects, so I hoped to find a lot of eclectic people with odd points of view, but the prospectus mes-led: a lot of students skipped the foundation year, and opted for similar subjects like English & American Studies or Economics & Management Science, so the two groups didn't get to meet and spark ideas off each other. I suppose I was lucky not to have to share with theology students, which would have been worse.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #990000;"><span face=""><input type="checkbox" /></span> <span face="">I have been able to explore academic interests with other students.</span></span> <br />
<br />
I don't know what other economcis students thought about the wreck of the UK economy at the time, because it wasn't discussed. The course was set-up to avoid discussion, because, I suppose, in hindisght, any discussion would increase the chances of a lecturer getting sacked at University of Colorado in the 1960s, and the habits learned at that place were transferred to this place by the chief, Les Fishman.<br />
<br />
<span face=""><span style="color: red;"><br />
<DIGRESSION ON POPPING THE QUESTION></span></span><br />
<br />
All I know is that people occasionally asked the lecturer if he knew why the government seemed to be closing UK industry so deliberately, just as they had done at school. The answer at school and in the innovation course at Keele was the same - that the sort of people who support those policies in government believe, privately, that UK manufacturing is dead anyway. The answer from Fishman was even more diplomatic -<i>"We used to believe in Keynsian solution; now we believe in Monetarist solutions"</i>, and then, asked about the effects, he resorted to mime. <i>"It'll be like a cold shower. [mimed shrug]. That's what the people who believe in these policies say"</i><br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""></DIGRESSION ON POPPING THE QUESTION></span></span><br />
<br />
Where were we? Did I feel part of anything?<br />
<br />
No I don't remember being part of a group of students committed to learning; I just remember boys in knitwear.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Teaching before student feedback - external reviews of 1980s Keele</span> </h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
In the 1980s I guess there was far less time spent on external reviews, fewer guidelines, and the process was probably a lot more hit-and-miss. Nowadays it's part of a system laid-out week by week, with checklists, verbosity from the Quality Assurance Agency and calls for things like strategic stakeholders and visions. It's not so bad if you dip-in to it at intervals and pick-out the lines that make sense. Once the sense is clear, colleges can try to find the simplest way to fit-in to the system. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>
<i><span style="color: #741b47;">6.1 A programme of study in economics should be designed to encourage the acquisition of subject knowledge, understanding and skills with increasing critical facility and independence as the course progresses. To this end, learning should be organised and supported to foster active learning. A variety of approaches to managing the learning process may be adopted to achieve this, including lectures, seminars, tutorials, workshops, peer teaching and learning, project - based learning, experiments, games and technology - enabled learning . 6.2 These approaches to the learning process should be supported by appropriate resources including access to economic data bases, such as the Office of National Statistics data base, information technology based resources,and written materials. The use of such resources encourages active learning and the ability to select and make appropriate use of supporting evidence</span></i> <span style="color: #741b47;"></span><i><span style="color: #741b47;">You may want to read this document if you are ... involved in the design, delivery and review of programmes of study in economics - Quality Assurance Agency</span> Benchmark</i></blockquote>
<a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/external_reports_on_the_economic#incoming-721156" title="Keele University claim to have no record of any external review of Professor Fishman's Economics degree course">Keele University tell me they have thrown-out all records of external reviews of Keele economics teaching decades ago</a>. Maybe the records self-ignited. Les Fishman certainly ceased working with students at age 64, but I don't know why. If anyone had asked me, as a student, whether the course should continue I would have said <i>"close it - can we join a different college now please?"</i>, and then felt guilty and asked that the staff should come too, but I don't remember anybody asking me anything about the course. <a href="http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11083017">Something general about Keele survives from 1993</a>. I guess that Keele's external reviews were not good, because I think the college had shrunk dramatically just before I joined. Managers tried to keep the buildings full; new students were forced to live in the halls of residence (not in the same year group - we were thrown-in where there was a space in single-sex bedsit blocks) and use vouchers to fund the canteens with their menu that included frozen cake. The college management used bureaucratic tricks to stop people transferring to other colleges: once you were sent-down, you had to serve your time. Years later I met a boy from Silverdale while cruising. That's a place a mile from Keele, full of the kinds of people it was set-up to teach. <i>"What do you think of Keele?". "I prefer not to answer that question".</i> I hope that people from Silverdale who are good at online stats programs get a chance to study economics at Keele in future. I also hope there are good options for exam-flunkers who fancy a subject-change like me: I got a good deal by switching to English and studying lots of subjects. I didn't realise that if I wanted to study one subject like Economics well, I could do better at a polytechnic up the road, live with my mum and dad in London and still get more life experience in gay cruising places than living on a campus in the midlands to learn about broiler chicken workbook examples from an overweight man in serious specs and tweed. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Guessing Keele economics external review statements from staff behaviour</span> </h4>
I guess that external reviews mentioned the text-book nature of the course, because staff were keen to boast their choice of the latest textbooks, even if Fishman had not bothered to read the bits of Begg's <i>"Economics, British Edition"</i> that related to the UK and the crisis in which his students lived. In the last year we were asked to read it at home because <i>"it is a christmasy book"</i>, which is a nice thing to say, although it wasn't good for revision: it has a more limited income-savings liquidity-money-supply (ISLM) diagram than the one we had to revise. The book came with some kind of standard set of lecture notes for professors, and a young teacher from Imperial College where the book's author worked was recruited to give a UK option for the one proper university style course that we could spend a few months studying. One teacher mentioned that <i>"The Peculiarities of the British Economy"</i> was used in the City (although we weren't required to read it); Fishman told a lecture that someone had found him a Nigerian economics text book - <i>"quite a find"</i> - although I don't remember ever seeing it. I suppose there were external examiners in the room where students were summoned for vivas after the end of our last year - maybe that's why the door only opened a foot. I did not know that Professor Fishman was retiring at age 64, and maybe he didn't either. Maybe the system of external checks by teachers from other colleges had finally caught-up with him, and they'd told him that they'd close the course if he didn't retire. Economics would have been easier if we had been allowed a copy of Samuelson's Economics, published in the USA in 1948, because it would have shown us what was still inside the head of our professor. References to the British economy were ignored in his teaching even if printed in the new Begg text book. The names of shorthand abbreviations on standard graphs were taught by wrote. I see that Samuelson's first 1948 edition has been re-printed so that the public can understand economists better. There is a wider world too. A generation had worse job prospects. I could easily leave for London and live with parents to face a year's job-search, volunteer work and attempts to learn some basic job skills before getting some temping shifts and and then a job for that social housing association that has the highest staff turnover and lowest wages. Students from the midlands had it much worse; I expect a lot emigrated. And the economics punditry trade still argues over Thatchernomics, mainly to approve in ignorance, like historians in the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMedd03JCA">Newman and Badeal sketch "history today"</a>, and with the same lack of reference to stats or context or common sense. I remember the course as so bad that one memory prompts another.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Unemployment in the text books - there is <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html" title="what 1980s economics textbooks said about UK 1980s unemployment">more here</a></span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: #cc0000; text-align: left;">Why Is Unemployment So High</span><span style="text-align: left;"> - from Begg Fischer and Dornbush, p 595, chapter 26, Unemployment</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br />
<br />
<hr />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">By 1983 the UK unemployment rate was more than eight times as high as it was in 1965. The task for empirical economists it to try to say how much of this increase was caused by an increase in the natural rate of unemployment and how much was caused by deficient demand and sluggish wage adjustment.... [...] ....[usual telegraph-reader stuff]... [....] bla [it's very boring being deliberately mislead when you know it's happening and can't change the system. If this had been my English Lit part of the course I would have been allowed to write why I didn't trust the textbook. If it had been a data mining course, I could have written why I thought I could write a better summery of what I thought was happening based on data. But it was some wierd kind of in-between-everything course that just told me to learn the telegraph-reader opinions, which I did not trust, by heart and regrugitate them</span>].</fieldset>
<fieldset>
The textbook I used in 1984 did not blame unemployment on the collapse of UK manufacturing, which is a little bit like talking about the 1930s recession and not mentioning the wall street crash or the gold standard. On the other hand it has a very clear section explaining why manufacturing collapsed, and another section in the micro-economics chaptors explaining how, if you have cut prices to retain exports as the pound rises, you are likely to run out of cash. The process is spelt-out step-by-step. There's a reference to Professor Peter Nichol at the London School of Economics, who says that the "natural rate" - which is people between jobs who are going to get one soon - is higher if the dole is higher. There's stuff about trades unions, which I skipped, and a couple of pages later something called <i>"structural adjustment"</i> of industries, particularly heavy engineering. That sounds like a euphemism for something the authors don't want to write. A bit like <i>"industrial cleansing".</i> There is a paragraph right at the beginning of the chapter on fiscal and monetary policy to say that demand for manufacturing had dropped 16% and the CBI had asked the government to drop the interest rate that was to blame. The Keele teacher who taught that chapter didn't mention it, but now I see it there. It's a surprise because the style of the book is to explain everything to everyone, including a 17 year-old on an <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150209133558/https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302106/A_level_economics_subject_content.pdf">A level</a> course who has never thought about any of this before. After noticing these references to the collapse of UK manufacturing there is a section called "summery" which doesn't mention any effect on unemployment or long-term prospects for damaged manufacturing industries, but there are chapters about current affairs for keen students right at the end.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>The Pound in the 1970s</b> - from Begg Fischer and Dornbush, p663, chapter 28, Open Economy Macroeconomics</span> <br />
<br />
<hr />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheDUfCo0f8AdWR25SeHhX4X7v-25wcgsyAy92GwZoNJHmtoOvUls270F0eDSv7cAb0kxeohys1L-G3eLoXAWLcepzYx7RmKWQJKIOsC2E589SabLDwdnwP7_ps2rNUYVtXctD3zGbmzCtN/s1600/scan169.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="" border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheDUfCo0f8AdWR25SeHhX4X7v-25wcgsyAy92GwZoNJHmtoOvUls270F0eDSv7cAb0kxeohys1L-G3eLoXAWLcepzYx7RmKWQJKIOsC2E589SabLDwdnwP7_ps2rNUYVtXctD3zGbmzCtN/s320/scan169.jpg" width="240" /></a></span></div>
<span style="color: #cc0000;">Figure 28-5 shows the behaviour of the nominal and real sterling exchange rate since 1973, the date at which most countries adopted floating exchange rates. We show the exchange rates not against a single currency such as the dollar, but against a basket of the currencies most important for the UK's international trading transactions.</span> <span style="color: #cc0000;"></span> <span style="color: #cc0000;">Effectively, the period can be divided into two. In the first half the nominal sterling exchange rate was falling steadily but the real exchange rate was not changing very much. Higher inflation in the UK than in the rest of the world was being offset by a depreciating exchange rate to maintain competitiveness essentially unaltered.</span> <span style="color: #cc0000;"></span> <span style="color: #cc0000;">During the second half of the period the UK's international competitiveness collapsed. The UK had higher inflation than the rest of the world <i>and</i> an <i>appreciating</i> exchange rate in the period 1978-91. In part, this collapse of competitiveness showed-up in a reduction of net exports. For example, UK imports increased by 11 percent in 1979. In part, however, UK firms responded to the collapse of competitiveness by cutting prices and making short-term losses, hoping that the competitiveness would improve again and the decision to remain in world markets would be vindicated. This, profits in manufacturing industry collapsed in 1980-91 when the real exchange rate was at its peak.</span> <span style="color: #cc0000;"></span> <span style="color: #cc0000;">Why did the real exchange rate increase so dramatically? We already have part of the answer. A tight monetary policy was introduced to fight inflation. Until domestic prices and wages adjusted, the squeeze in the domestic money supply meant that high interest rates and a sharp appreciation in the nominal exchange rate. Professors Marcus Miller and Willem Buiter have calculated that each 1 per cent reduction in the rate of UK money growth might be expected to lead initially to a loss of competitiveness of 2.3 percent.[9] Figure 28.5 suggests that the decline in UK competitiveness may not be entirely due to tight monetary policy and the problems of temporary adjustment. Although competitiveness has been improving since 1981, it remains well below its level in the mid-1970s. The real exchange rate is still very high. We conclude this chapter by examining the role of North Sea Oil.</span> <span style="color: #cc0000;"></span> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>North Sea Oil</b></span> <br />
<br />
<hr />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">By the late 1970s the UK was beginning to exploit the large reserves of oil that had been discovered in the North Sea. The doubling of oil prices in 1979-80 increased the importance of these reserves. What effect should we expect this to have on the exchange rate? [....] Thus, in figure 28-5 sterling's real exchange rate rose especially sharply in the period 1979-81 because there was simultaneously a move to tighter monetary policy <i>and</i> a sharp increase in the real value of the UK's oil reserves....</span></fieldset>
<fieldset>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
The Begg textbook was thought a bit too complicated for Keele Economics teachers of microeconomics, I suppose. The chapters are there in the book, but we avoided them I see on the net that Laidler had serious specs, and his books might have had teachers' notes and exercises about broiler chickens to go with them, but the reviews only give one or two stars out of five. I conclude from this small survey that serious specs and teachers' notes have more effect on textbook sales than reviews by readers, but it is a provisional piece of research for which a grant would need to be obtained for further study to obtain a statistically significant sample of data. <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
in Begg and used a more dry and theoretical microeconomics textbook called Laidler. Other work by David Laidler was about promoting the monetarist ideas that had just wrecked the UK economy. As students, we didn't just have to suffer the consequences; we had to pay a small author's royalty for each textbook to one of the culprits. In order to look grant-worthy we must use some jargon, and apparently the first person to draw graphs about consumer behaviour was called Mr Walrus. Maybe somebody was taking advantage of my nievity at age 20-odd, but the word "Walrasian" was worth a tick in the margin. The year after Fishman's retirement, one of his ex-colleagues from University of Boulder tried publishing "Microeconomics: theory with applications", so with less references to Mr and Mrs Walrus, and gets far better reviews from readers, but possibly the man didn't have serious specs and cheap teachers' notes to go with the book and that's why we didn't use his texts. There were other books in print about the UK economy, written for non-technical people. Just as there are books by <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=Robert+Peston&dblist=638&fq=ap%3A%22peston+robert%22+%3E+ap%3A%22peston%2C+robert%22+%3E+ap%3A%22peston+robert%22&qt=facet_ap%3A">Robert Peston</a> in the bookshops now, there was one then by an Observer journalist called <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/britain-without-oil/oclc/12856547&referer=brief_results">Britain Without Oil</a>, and another by an academic called <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/british-economic-crisis-its-past-and-future/oclc/19324456/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br">The British Economic Crisis</a>. Oh and <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith">the academic</a> was teaching in the same department, but we didn't use his book for the main course. There was some imagined un-written rule that an economics course was untrue theories of government spending and interest rates, over-theoretical theories of marginal cost pricing, hours and hours of statistics, and that was that. In the second year I chose my own text books from the shop on campus. McMillen published an economics dictionary and a more concise book for revision called "Macroeconomics: an introduction to Keynsian Neoclassical controversies". It's more concise but it's a nastier book than Begg; it quotes more and more obviously wrong theories without any balance or common sense. I spent some of the final year trying to learn these theories by heart, knowing that they were untrue, in order to pass an exam.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<hr align="posts: <br /> <a href=;" style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span face="">Chapter <span face="">X</span>: <br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face=""><span face="">C</span>ow <span face="">T</span>heory <span face=""><span face="">of</span> the Global North</span></span></span></span></h3>
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWrXzpH3VOsGM_6mGP-uDNtK1KLs0_eXWeGlLJScQybVvSFjhdAREVT-QvSrlvxEaplm_a36GEKCvE9EgFNjmpbZzUHwdToYS6gEuMvnOQN9RKdCdaLIoYXNyPsPMUeDlEvTuBooOKUSBF/s1600/30C9078200000578-3426774-image-a-1_1454345512002%255B1%255D.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="265" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWrXzpH3VOsGM_6mGP-uDNtK1KLs0_eXWeGlLJScQybVvSFjhdAREVT-QvSrlvxEaplm_a36GEKCvE9EgFNjmpbZzUHwdToYS6gEuMvnOQN9RKdCdaLIoYXNyPsPMUeDlEvTuBooOKUSBF/s400/30C9078200000578-3426774-image-a-1_1454345512002%255B1%255D.jpg" width="400" /></a></td> </tr>
<tr> <td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><br />
<br />
Countries with a welfare state are called "The Global North"<br />
<br />
They exist to be milked by governments without a welfare state<br />
<br />
which therefore have a lot of poor people in them</td> </tr>
</tbody> </table>
<span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">The current secretary of state for international development, Priti Patel, would have done the same lecture course like thousands of others on similar courses. I don't remember what I picked-up from Keele, New Internationalist, or Make Poverty History. There are similar courses, I think, labelled New Economics Foundation at somewhere like Middlesex Uni, and a lot of people who have paid to go on them end-up doing internships at related trades like Futerra Sustainablity Communications, which is an ad agency, or Ethical Fashion Forum, which is a scam. The lecture course takes the standard ignorance of economists, which is to pretend they haven't heard of a welfare state, and then puzzles why countries without a welfare state are poor. Well, put like that, what do you think? The Department for International Development, with Priti Patel as minister, has just commissioned research into what reduces poverty, this spring 2017. My theory is that the same secondary schools, pensions, healthcare, and social insurance would work in Africa and India just as much as they work in the UK, and tariffs should encourage governments there to change, just as they should protect business that has extra costs because of systems like this in Europe. The EU tariff and the Multi-Fibre agreement are the kind of thing, or more subtle tariffs with social clauses. That's not what you hear in the lecture course, however much it tries to sound radical and socially concerned by a certain tone of voice. It isn't a history course. There is not detail about history. But if you say "col<u>o</u>nialism" with a downward-note on the second "<u>o</u>", it sounds like a very bad thing, while if you say "gl<u>o</u>balisation" with an upward note on the first "<u>o</u>", it sounds more positive, even though the economic effects are much the same, and the history of politics in, say, Bangladesh between 1848 and 1948 isn't covered on the lecture course - just implied by tone of voice.</span></span></span> <span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Once the welfare state is ignored, there are some other simplifications. The exchange rate is simplified into something called "the terms of trade", and the difficulty of selling a commodity product like potatoes is simplified into that as well. So the same tone of voice says that you do not get many posh specialised goods for your potatoes. If development economists went to Irelant in 1848 and saw large families trying to survive on tiny fields of potatoes, they would have talked about the terms of trade - not the size of the families. If they dip-in to "Livestocks Long Shadow", to see what effect cattle farming has on the poor, I imagine they talk about the terms of trade again, whatever terms of trade mean.</span></span></span><span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Cows come-in to the final simplification. There are countries called "The Global North", like Australia, which have a welfare state, and countries called "The Global South", which should milk the global north for every possible favour they can get with every possible excuse, and aid agancies that work with governments in the global south recycle the ideas that they are fed from those governments. So far, we have managed to sell textbooks in Bangladesh and Alabama without offending governments, but we haven't decided what needs to be done. In fact we have hidden the obvious, proven solutions to poverty, As a result, cow theorists are puzzled why a welfare state should want a slight tariff barrier against sweatshop goods, which are cheaper because their producers do not have to pay the taxes and national insurance that pay for schools and pensions and healthcare, and all the things that prevent over-population and poverty. This is rather unfair on the over-populated and poor who compete for scarce sweatshop jobs in badly-run countries, but a popular idea with the people who run these countries badly or run sweatshop in these countries. It's also a popular idea with the corporations that buy from these sweatshops, like Nike which has an office called Centre for Sustainable Fashion that they sponsor at University of the Arts, and so has a way fo getting its views known in academia. If you want to study further in a development studies course, cow theory doesn't say that people in the UK invented machines for making textiles, then put their own stalk-based fibre industry out of business to start spinning cotton instead of flax and hemp. It gives a different story, which was that system of government one or two hundred years ago gave these evil industrialists unfair access to cotton, allowing them the leasure to invent machines that might otherwise have been invented in India. Textiles are the usual example given, because the trade is very old - as old as industrialised ceramics - and so you can use some kind of marxist analysis to make it all look neat over a long period of time and that's your MA dissertation done. In the potteries, it should be obvious that clay did not come from China or India to make the pots; it continued to come from the UK just as flax and hemp had come from the UK, but that's evidence from outside the bus window, while the evidence in the long list of footnotes to the MA theory suggests something more convenient to the theory. I've learnt a bit about this since college, where there wasn't time to teach it, and found that it's often taught just as badly. The bunch I came across used material from Brooks Uni.</span></span></span> <br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li> <span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">A textbook called "<a href="http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2004/april/tradoc_111249.pdf" target="_blank">Rigged Rules and Double Standards</a>" notices some problems among people in countries without a welfare state, such as Bangladesh.</span></span></span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li> <span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">The textbook blames the problems of countries without a welfare state on those countries that have a welfare state, for not giving more aid and buying more dumped sweatshop goods. It calls the countries with a welfare state "the north" and regards them as something like a giant cow be milked by the Mercedez-driving group of people in sweatshop countries who are called "the south". They provide sweatshop goods with their teeming cheap staff, so they do well; they get aid, so they do better, and they grumble that tariffs that protect any stable welfare state from sweatshop goods are unfair, in their view. The textbook leaves them no wiser.</span></span></span><br />
</li>
</ul>
<span style="color: purple;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">The book is published by a development agency, written by one of its staff, and used as a textbook on courses sponsored by the agency. <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FI3YMbnlpoQC&sitesec=reviews" target="_blank">The book reflects the opinions of governments where the agency does business</a>, which are generally against providing a welfare state and in favour of asking for lower tariffs and more subsidy. The book is silent about other problems of poverty like the need to migrate, the tendency towards a population boom, the spread of anti-biotic resistant disease and social unrest. The book deliberately deceives as well. A quote that's apparently from another development economist turns-out to be from the trade minister of Vietnam. The person who wrote the book to order - Kevin Watkins - sometimes has work published by The Guardian as though a reliable source. -------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></span></span> <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;"><span style="color: purple;">Digression on international economics. Note to self: This subject in purple on the page three times. Consolidate or at least cut-and-paste together</span></span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: purple;">I was probably not a polite student; I wasn't big on social skills, and the economist who made sure by "attitude has been noted by all members of the department" was shy too. He didn't put his email address or picture on the web site. This begs a question of whether he taught something like vivisection that made him shy?</span> <span style="color: purple;"></span> <span style="color: purple;">The two strangest things I've heard economists say are that</span> <span style="color: purple;">(1)</span> <span style="color: purple;">Inflation is caused by steelworkers bidding-up wages, and if you close the steel works with cheap imports everything will be OK. This is untrue.</span> <span style="color: purple;">(2)</span> <span style="color: purple;">(a)</span> <span style="color: purple;">Globalization was wicked pre-1948 (or whatever the date of independence of some country) and worked entirely in favour of workers in the colonising country like the UK. There ws no down side, like loss of the hemp and linen industry or cheap imports from colonies that had no national insurance system after the UK built one up from 1911. This is untrue.</span> <span style="color: purple;">(b)</span> <span style="color: purple;">Globalization is wonderful post-1948, and works in everyone's favour. If a country like Bangladesh still doesn't have a national insurance system in 2015, it's rude to say that because it's meddling in the internal affairs of another country; your attitude has been noted. If Bangladeshi imports therefore undercut the price of goods made in the UK, it's rude to say so; your attitude has been noted again. Even if the virtue of free trade at all costs, including national insurance, is untrue.</span> <span style="color: purple;"></span> <span style="color: purple;">I don't base this on anything I studied at Keele because there was only one optional option and I chose one about UK growth, but I've found the arguments as described put by people who work for development agencies. Oxfam published a book called "Rigged Rules and Double Standards" to put the point of view. This was also the special subject of the teacher I annoyed, so I suggest a theory. The more rediculous the theory put by an economist, the more touchy that economist will be. It applies to left-leaning ones like development economists, and right-leaning ones like monetarists. Even if they talk sense. the weight of textbook opinion will force them to reply to opposite opinions.</span> By the way, the teacher I got is probably living in retirement now and if he reads this, I'm sorry if I was a bit rude and hope things go well. I googled that he co-wrote something about Guernsey financial services regulation with someone who was a student about that time. I don't know if it's a good piece of writing but it's proof that he didn't breath fire. And it looks as though he has put his 1980s international trade work up on the web for free in some form now - <a href="https://openlibrary.org/books/OL2537448M/">openlibrary.org/books/OL2537448M/</a></blockquote>
------------------------------------------------------------------- <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: purple;">Suggesting the un-knowable: development economics is touchy. Note to self: the three purple paragraphs are the same. Consolidate</span> </h4>
<span style="color: purple;">I can't be sure what was thought of the short, university-like courses that were held at the end of the third year, but I know that a new member of staff had been taken-on to teach UK development economics. Keele had a lot of overseas students; development economics of African and Asian countries would have been an option most years. I know from other experience that development economists are some of the ones you have doubts about as sane, balanced people. If they'd taught in 1984 that UK job losses were the inevitable result of post-colonial globalisation being so much better than colonial globalisation, and that it was not for us to wish a welfare state or a tariff on competing countries, nor talk about the effects of globalisation on the UK economy, I think someone might have thrown something at one of the teachers. But I can't say what courses were dropped or whether anyone threw anything, nor why the one of the development economics experts was particularly touchy and chose not to have his photo or contact details on the college web site even ten years later. Nor why staff tended to stand at the end of a room, at a distance from students, like prison warders</span></div>
</div>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Development Economics for a developed country: UK fashion and design - misfit paragraph</span> </h4>
Meanwhile London College of Fashion hosts <a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/creative_connexions_brief_and_bu_2#comment-7512" title="scumbags">offices that don't do any teaching at all, with funds raided from the Higher Education Funding Council, which means you, me, and missing services for our grannies. One such existed to encourage out-sourcing of UK designers' manufacturing to China. It was called Creative Connexions</a>, with an office near photography languages and the students union, and another office in China. Somewhere in government departments, groups of people thought this was a good idea, probably using ideas they'd picked-up on economics courses. Another office called "centre for sustainable fashion" is sponsored by Nike and in turn sponsors an all party group in the House of Lords. And Ethical Fashion Forum, down the road, shared offices with <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/" title="goods from badly-run countries: pants for poverty">Pantstopoverty</a> who appear from their actions not to want a welfare state.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Computer Science at Keele in the 1980s - misfit paragraph</span> </h4>
<span style="background-color: lime;">this bit is in twice</span> The Computer Science department ran one-year courses for foundation students, who would spend about a third of their time on the course. A teacher would tried to explain how to join the beginning and the end of a half-page program written in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29">Pascal</a>. He was not able to do this. Students study; I did my best to learn in other ways, but at the time there was no complete-enough textbook for sale about Pascal, because hardly anyone ever uses it. There was no system for putting students in touch with each other for self-help, and no way of asking any paid-staff one-to-one. No drop-in system. No supervised practise. But at least there was access to a computer for that course, which there wasn't for economics. The other place to expect computers in a college would be the library. It had a suggestions book - page after page the same. "The clocks in the library tell the wrong time". Answer: "That is a subject for the maintenance department; library staff do not adjust the clocks". I expect it's the same now. At Hull, Phillip Larkin might have written a poem about the clock-setting suggestions book.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Careers at Keele - misfit paragraph</span> </h4>
Keele service station does not allow you to enter the area by car, but you can leave. For staff it is the other way-around. A job teaching the core of a subject doesn't help your CV stand-out, even if you are good with a range of students and learn from them. Glassdoor.co.uk awards Keele four stars for most things, but one star for prospects. For students it was the same: there was no way of transferring-away from this college to another one. Someone tried but the burocrats found a way to prevent it. The place was run like that. Invisible dragons made decrees on no particular authority about whether you needed to rent their rooms or use their furniture or buy vouchers for their canteens. There is another point about careers for Keele Economics graduates which I can't post separately because this blog host writes a new box each time I try. The point is that people do what they were going to do after an experience like higher education. The ones that were going to persue a career in local government finance do it. The ones who were going to try to be something cool and have to settle for less do it. The score card that says economics students earn more than english students after graduation was nearly as true of the same people before their years of study. If you wanted to test the idea that univserity economics study is slightly (but maybe usefully) related to earning money, you would have to do more. I don't know what you'd have to do. Probably find people who were diverted by external events like politics and family and financial changes. I expect you'd find the same earnings in later life. And these people would be doing something else while others study economics. Stacking shelves in Tesco or studying another subject or being conscripted or apprentices or astanauts. So it is hard to find a large goup of people to compare. Unless hundreds of people are taught stupid economics deliberately, as a placebo. Which is what happened to me but people on other courses like London School of Economics suffer even worse courses.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Reason for quoting forgotten ministers when writing about the 1980s - misfit paragraph</span> </h4>
Alan Clark's quote about the unemployed on <i>"tacky schemes to keep them off the register"</i> is on page 94 of his book apparently. It's cheap to buy second hand, a lot is on google books, and googling the reference found me a page about unemployment figures that I haven't read but looks academic. <a href="http://www.radstats.org.uk/no079/webster.htm">radstats.org.uk/no079/webster.htm</a> I like quoting Thatcher's ministers about Thatcher because she's so divisive that their informed, conservative opinion doesn't put people off in a way that a quote from Arthur Scargill might do. I'm not sure where the quotes from other ministers are written though. Interviews were broadcast I think on the BBC in a documentary about the time of her funeral. James Prior, Francis Pym and Ian Gilmour show regrets. My impression was that some of them wanted to talk more about economic devastation - to be given a chance to apologise - but that the interviewer didn't let them. Sir Ian Gilmour looks sad about Thatcher's offer to resign on the failure of her verbal assault on other European prime ministers in Dublin. Francis Pym says something like <i>"we should have explained that our proposed policies could not work in a recession"</i>. James Prior says something like <i>"once you have lost that much manufacturing, it's very hard to get it back"</i>. Some of them state that William Whitelaw as the deputy who <i>"put aside any moral obligation"</i> to voters in deciding what to do in disputes between ministers and the prime minister and her advisers. If anyone has a link to this program I hope they can add it as a comment to this blog.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Here is a quote from <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching-the-history-of-economics/">someone good at economics teaching who knew about Keele in the 1980</a>s. I emailed him to ask. Most of it was clearly much more of a course in statistics exercises and wrote-learning than <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614023101/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/teaching/allmod.htm">the surviving 1990s syllabus</a> which looks respectable.</span> </h4>
<i>"...about Keele in the 1980s, it was designed to deliver rather dull teaching - the joint honours degree meant that each department was constrained to deliver just the core of the subject, since they only had about 6 hours per week of the students total time. The purpose of the design was to enable students to put together unusual combinations of subjects through their own choices, which was a good idea, but with a teaching downside. And then in the 1990s students increasingly opted for related subjects, making the original design redundant. The second year economics in the 1980s was three hours lectures, two hours on stats, and one class. The third year was similar, with one or two options in the final half of the year. Collaboration across departments in teaching and research was also hindered by the same structure. Incidentally, I am talking about "courses", not "modules" - modules were only introduced in the early 1990s, and contributed to a reduction in the amount of teaching done - as did semesterisation. So students today, by and large, get far less contact time than they did then. In Manchester, when they built the new faculty a few years ago, it was designed in such a way that students had no direct access to the staff offices - their swipe cards did not let them in."</i></fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Untitled misfit paragraph for deletion</span> </h4>
Teachers were funded a bit like a police force, with a similar system of peer review, like the one that says Derbyshire Police Force has not been fit for purpose for decades. The difference is that it was easier to close one college department and open another in another subject at the same college, while it's hard to close-down a police force, so the peer review system was more important. Unfortunately it would be done by people from the field of economics, so if a subject is boring everywhere, the system continues. I understand without knowing my source that the college did contract a lot in the years just before 1984 - that it halved in size - so maybe even the peer review system singled Keele out for cuts in funding. As for the subject, I see that there are <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JEL_classification_codes" target="_blank">classification codes for what people write about in economic journals</a>, and, looking at them, I can't see why people would want to study some of them except by mistake A second problem is that students might not apply. That doesn't and didn't matter too much either. Prospectuses were puzzling and little-read. If, somehow, word got-out that a course was so bad that nobody applied, then a clearing system would offer the places to students like myself who had flunked our exams and first few choices of course. There might be a spiral of decline at this point, with students dropping-out or studying badly, but at least we were ready on the chairs at the start of the course, and with sufficient drilling and revision might be coaxed-through to the end of it. <i><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi-GbsSXzEkk-l0EQYCGFOqlkMYPd-3znU3KsMzgMZmaOumaz5vel0E2FEZEEE4F2Bf9y81lKFwd1F_4yk2e-Mc6JtxvNyccV5DLducPgyjPFn_Bb8jYufdtUVbb1cIlsvz8y_O49YoywM7/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="" border="0" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi-GbsSXzEkk-l0EQYCGFOqlkMYPd-3znU3KsMzgMZmaOumaz5vel0E2FEZEEE4F2Bf9y81lKFwd1F_4yk2e-Mc6JtxvNyccV5DLducPgyjPFn_Bb8jYufdtUVbb1cIlsvz8y_O49YoywM7/s320/temp.jpg" width="320" /></a></i>Lastly there were overseas students, who were offered a very high list price. I don't know if there was a discount for block bookings. I remember one student from Nigeria, who did Politics, and a bunch from Cameroon. I don't remember any from Europe where grants for study are more generous; the growth market for UK educators was Africa and Asia; videos of Keele on sunny days were sent to Hong Kong. If you are a cartoon character of a professor, rather stagy, you might put-on a show of normality for the overseas students rather like the dinner party in Carry-On Up The Khyber. If a student asked why factories were closing, and you didn't care either way, you might just pretend they weren't closing and say <i>"I don't know - maybe their design wasn't good enough"</i> If something worried the teaching staff in the 1980s - made them so rude to students who questioned the system - then it would probably be the chance of a bad peer review or something else that made college managers decide to close the department and expand another one instead. The college states that it has thrown-out records of 1980s peer reviews, but the professor's decision to take a phone call from his boss during a seminar with students shows that he knows student feedback wasn't a problem, but the ability to sound to the boss was important. If not good, then cheap. Now the system has changed. Most of the money follows the student, at £9,000 a head from the Student Loans Company. Government publishes unistats reviews, and I hope applicants are good at using them to find an interesting economics course before the next economic crisis. There's also a chance for colleges to expand the number of places if they want, started recently, so that the supply of students through clearing will gradually dry-up for the few really bad courses. I've not checked my facts and might have got them wrong, but now you know my gut feeling about how the system works and where it might go now that the funding has changed.</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">How this blog post comes-about - misfit paragraphs</span> </h3>
<b>The blog</b> began to keep track of a Drupal software installation, which never happened - hence to choice of a quick and dirty blogging platform and messy url. The blog continues on the excuse of trying to promote a <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegetarian shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the uk">shoe shop that sells vegan shoes</a>, but mainly because I just write anyway, by default. <b>The interest in Keele Economics</b>, 30 years after study there, began when I tried to debunk an Oxford Economics report called The Value of Fashion, which I don't believe but which has a lot of technical bamboozlement about it. It struck me that I remember next to nothing about my economics degree, which isn't surprising because I had chosen to study economics in such a cut-down textbookey way, because computers at the college weren't yet good enough to help, and because of the terrible tradition of teaching economics which applies at most colleges I think, at least in the first year, from Oxford teaching PPE to future chancellors to the full-time degrees at Glasgow or Manchester where there have been student protests, and to the odd ones like Keele or Open University. I had noticed an obituary and scholarship in memory of all who suffered bad teaching there, and, as memories like the Great Man taking a phone call in a seminar and standing to drill large classes in multiple choice exercises, I thought there was a story about the man himself. I asked a question on Quora which they kept deleting as I added more detail, very much as US colleges had deleted the man's job when they found out what party he belonged to. You don't get burned as a witch at the Berkley, California or the University of Boulder, Colorado - that's Salem - but you get the sack and end up working on the docks or doing the books for a relative with a furniture workshop. I hoped to discover that the man had some unusual set of beliefs. I only discovered that he liked to teach from Samuelson, which has been considered communist by some people in america. As I Googled and Binged and put work-in-progress here, I realised that this wasn't a story about a man teaching deliberately badly as a private joke, even if that was true. Loads of economics departments still teach this badly and their staff give each other peer reviews. So the story moved from an account of a 1980s economics course to the 21st century unistats which I discovered and played with, and sites like the Post Crash Economics Society which I had not known about before. That led to other posts about the <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">worst degree courses</a>, and <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html">current economics courses</a>.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">The Leslie and Eleanor Fishman Bursary at Keele University</span> </h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
"In brief: News from <b>Keele</b>, <b>Wetley Rocks</b> and <b>Stoke-on-Trent</b> By This is Staffordshire | Posted: October 10, 2008 KEELE: Hot topics like the credit crunch and <a href="http://www.normanflynn.me.uk/econwar.pdf">the economics of the Iraq War</a> will be coming under the microscope at a conference being held at Keele University next week. Distinguished economists from the UK and the U.S. will be speaking at the event on Wednesday at Keele's management centre. It has been organised in memory of Leslie Fishman, who was an economics professor at the university between 1969 and 1987. The conference will be followed by a reception, where a new Leslie and Eleanor Fishman bursary will be launched. It will be awarded annually to the best first year student from the Potteries. Read more: http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/brief-News-Keele-Wetley-Rocks-Stoke-Trent/story-12541416-detail/story.html#ixzz3vuyp0blC" This reads very much like a paragraph in the Cornell Daily Star fifty years earlier, promoting Fishman's grand lecture about Thorsten Veblen. Just like the Cornell Daily Star in the early 60s, the Sentinel doesn't send a reporter but publishes the invitation. Further research funding is required for reading the local paper, but at a first glance the Sentinel's catchment area is more troubled in 2008. Cornell Daily Star readers stared at adverts for horror movies and explicit pictures of underwear. Sentinel readers learn that someone from Wetley Rocks was convicted of sexual assaults and a 20-year-old admitted shoplifting £309-worth of stuff from Boots at Tunstall. These are separate stories that did not happen at the conference. During my English Literature degree I got an excuse to gut a book called <i>The Nationwide Audience</i> which shows how much many people hate this kind of patronising local news that dis-connects the broader issues that cause problems from some concept of local people and local readers about local issues. The Sentinel doesn't just make itself boring by failing to write a report on macroeconomics, it has a weird kind of patronising knowing incompetence. Why write <i>"will be coming under the microscope",</i> instead of <i>"will come under the microscope"</i>? While researching my awful economics professor I found an exception to the usual rule in local news. Anyway I meant to say what you have guessed: that there is some connection between what chancellors do with advice from voters and opinion polls and civil servants and economists, with some distant memory of a PPE course they took decades earlier, and what happens to the people in Stoke and Whetley Rocks who end-up doing bad things. Reports of student bursaries suggest that they are between £500 and £1,000 and awarded once each year to the best performing local economics student completing year one. The first student got £1,000. That sounds like a deal that would cost £10,000-£20,000 to a donor funding volunteer trustees to obtain 5-10% return. That's much less than six months salary for a professor who does no tutorials, ignores computers, and should not have been employed. Maybe the best thing it does is expose how much someone could think they did a good teaching job in the 1980s when the truth is that they didn't even begin to try to teach. I'd prefer the cash to be shared-out between all traceable graduates of the course in compensation, but don't know how that could be organised. The bursary will probably do a lot more good in exposing students to the limits of teaching and studying economics - specially to the future politicians studying another short economics course as part of PPE. what happened next This could be a good place to say what happened next in the office and to the next economics students at Keele. I've googled this subject so much that a story unfolded. The powers - whoever they were - chose someone with this CV as next chief: <i>"Roger studied Mathematics at Cambridge University, followed by a PhD in Theoretical Physics in the Cavendish Laboratory. His first position was as Lecturer and then Senior Lecturer in Decision Theory at the University of Manchester."</i>. I guess the project was doomed from that moment, but university commitment to joint-honours degrees for everyone, and to contrasting short courses, wained. The next chief managed to force his students to do separate maths courses, leaving more time on the timetable. Management of the department was now shared with another, name to repell students as "management something or other", and dreamed up the idea of "modules", which give students and tutors a lot more choice but a lot less chance to get to know each other and teach or study in depth. With these tweaks to the system, it was possible to look more like a normal university on the <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19970614023101/http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ec/web/teaching/allmod.htm">syllabus.</a> I only know this from web searches, but one ex-staff member ex-staff member - author of <a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-economy-of-the-word-9780190211615" title="Also reviewed on Rethinking Economics: http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/opinion/2015/08/rereading-economics-a-review-of-keith-tribes-the-economy-of-the-word/ has a review by Isaac Stovell, University of Sheffield">The Economy of the Word</a> - has a <a href="http://keithtribe.co.uk/teaching/">niceley-written page about it on his web site</a>. I understand that the same kind of thing happened at other UK universities. The maths person went-on to University of Manchester, where the Post Crash Economics Society set-up.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Recent National Student Survey questions,</span> including optional follow-up questions and extra questions for NHS students. The questions can change a little each year</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf">https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/Assets/Docs/Publications/nss-questionnaire.pdf</a></div>
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Main Questionnaire</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">The teaching on my course</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
1. Staff are good at explaining things. 2. Staff have made the subject interesting. 3. Staff are enthusiastic about what they are teaching. 4. The course is intellectually stimulating.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Assessment and feedback</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
5. The criteria used in marking have been clear in advance. 6. Assessment arrangements and marking have been fair. 7. Feedback on my work has been prompt. 8. I have received detailed comments on my work. 9. Feedback on my work has helped me clarify things I did not understand.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Academic support</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
10. I have received sufficient advice and support with my studies. 11. I have been able to contact staff when I needed to. 12. Good advice was available when I needed to make study choices.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Organisation and management</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
13. The timetable works efficiently as far as my activities are concerned. 14. Any changes in the course or teaching have been communicated effectively. 15. The course is well organised and is running smoothly. <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Learning resources</span> </h4>
16. The library resources and services are good enough for my needs. 17. I have been able to access general IT resources when I needed 18. I have been able to access specialised equipment, facilities, or rooms when I needed to.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">Personal development</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
19. The course has helped me to present myself with confidence. 20. My communication skills have improved. 21. As a result of the course, I feel confident in tackling unfamiliar problems. 22. Overall, I am satisfied with the quality of the course. Looking back on the experience, are there any particularly positive or negative aspects you would like to highlight? (Please use the boxes below.) <br />
<br />
<fieldset>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
</fieldset>
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">National Student Survey Bank of Questions (Optional)</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B1. Careers</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
As a result of my course, I believe that I have improved my career prospects. Good advice is available for making career choices. Good advice is available on further study opportunities N/A</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B2. Course Content and Structure</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
All of the compulsory modules are relevant to my course; There is an appropriate range of options to choose from on my course, The modules of my course form a coherent integrated whole</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B3. Work Placements</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Did your course involve any work placements? Yes (ask all questions in this section) No (skip this section) I received sufficient support and advice from my institution about the organisation of my placements; My placements were valuable in helping my learning, My placements have helped me to develop my skills in relation to my course, My placements have helped me to develop my general life skills, The taught part of my course was good preparation for my placements</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B4. Social Opportunities</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had plenty of opportunities to interact socially with other students; I am satisfied with the range of clubs and societies on offer, I am satisfied with the range of entertainment and social events on offer</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B5. Course Delivery</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Learning materials made available on my course have enhanced my learning; The range and balance of approaches to teaching has helped me to learn, The delivery of my course has been stimulating, My learning has benefited from modules that are informed by current research, Practical activities on my course have helped me to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B6. Feedback from Students</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have had adequate opportunities to provide feedback on all elements of my course. My feedback on the course is listened to and valued It is clear to me how students comments on the course have been acted upon</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B7. The Physical Environment</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Security has been satisfactory when attending classes. My institution provides an appropriate environment in which to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B8. Welfare Resources and Facilities</span> </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
There is sufficient provision of welfare and student services to meet my needs. When needed, the information and advice offered by welfare and student services has been helpful</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B9. Workload</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
The workload on my course is manageable. This course does not apply unnecessary pressure on me as a student. The volume of work on my course means I can always complete it to my satisfaction. I am generally given enough time to understand the things I have to learn</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B10. Assessment</span> </h4>
Teaching staff test what I have understood rather than what I have memorised. Assessment methods employed in my course require an in-depth understanding of the course content <br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B11. Learning Community</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I feel part of a group of students committed to learning. I have been able to explore academic interests with other students. I have learnt to explore ideas confidently within my course. I feel my suggestions and ideas are valued. I feel part of an academic community in my college or university</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;">B12. Intellectual Motivation</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I have found the course motivating. The course has stimulated my interest in the field of study. The course has stimulated my enthusiasm for further learning</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
National Student Survey Questions for NHS-Funded Students only </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<input type="checkbox" />Definitely agree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly agree <input type="checkbox" />Neither agree nor disagree <input type="checkbox" />Mostly disagree <input type="checkbox" />Definitely disagree <input type="checkbox" />Not applicable</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
N3 Practise placements </h4>
<h4>
</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
I received sufficient preparatory information prior to my placement(s) I was allocated placement(s) suitable for my course I received appropriate supervision on placement(s) I was given opportunities to meet my required practise learning outcomes / competences My contribution during placement(s) as part of the clinical team was valued My practise supervisor(s) understood how my placement(s)related to the broader requirements of my course N/A</div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Quality Assurance Agency Benchmarks for Economics Degree Courses</span> </h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Since finding the benchmark standards, which I suppose are for discussion by external examinors if they want, I've found expectations B3,4 and 5 and C that are relevant to students on courses. If there is any legal significance to a quango document with "expectation" written on it, I suppose it's mixed-up with the idea of buyers' reasonable expectations in law, but I don't think these are enforcable in something as vague as education and of course teachers have reasonable expectations of students that aren't mentioned. There are also "indicators" which look like confabulation on the theme of write documents and form committees; this must be quite annoying to people in the trade but it makes more sense to outsiders <a href="http://www.qaa.ac.uk/assuring-standards-and-quality/the-quality-code/quality-code-part-b">More detail on the quality code part B</a></span> </h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B1 (<span style="color: #990000;">Programme design, development and approval</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers, in discharging their responsibilities for setting and maintaining academic standards and assuring and enhancing the quality of learning opportunities, operate effective processes for the design, development and approval of programmes.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B2 (<span style="color: #990000;">Recruitment, selection and admission</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Recruitment, selection, and admission policies and procedures adhere to the principles of fair admission. They are transparent, reliable, valid, inclusive and underpinned by appropriate organisational structures and processes. They support higher education providers in the selection of students who are able to complete their programme.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B3 (<span style="color: #990000;">Learning and teaching</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers, working with their staff, students and other stakeholders, articulate and systematically review and enhance the provision of learning opportunities and teaching practises, so that every student is enabled to develop as an independent learner, study their chosen subject(s) in depth and enhance their capacity for analytical, critical and creative thinking.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B4 (<span style="color: #990000;">Enabling student development and achievement</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers have in place, monitor and evaluate arrangements and resources which enable students to develop their academic, personal and professional potential.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B5 (<span style="color: #990000;">Student engagement</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers take deliberate steps to engage all students, individually and collectively, as partners in the assurance and enhancement of their educational experience.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B6 (<span style="color: #990000;">Assessment and the recognition of prior learning</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers operate equitable, valid and reliable processes of assessment, including for the recognition of prior learning, which enable every student to demonstrate the extent to which they have achieved the intended learning outcomes for the credit or qualification being sought.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B7 (<span style="color: #990000;">External examining</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers make scrupulous use of external examiners.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B8 (<span style="color: #990000;">Programme monitoring and review</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers, in discharging their responsibilities for setting and maintaining academic standards and assuring and enhancing the quality of learning opportunities, operate effective, regular and systematic processes for monitoring and for review of programmes.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation B9 (<span style="color: #990000;">Academic appeals and student complaints</span>)</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers have procedures for handling academic appeals and student complaints about the quality of learning opportunities; these procedures are fair, accessible and timely, and enable enhancement.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Expectation C</span> </h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #741b47;">Higher education providers produce <span style="color: #990000;">information for their intended audiences</span> about the learning opportunities they offer that is <span style="color: #990000;">fit for purpose, accessible and trustworthy</span>.</span></div>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">introductions too long to put at the start</span> </h3>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The way UK government treats manufacturing is still important to anyone selling UK-made products, because it's hard to explain that UK manufacturers were effected by fiddled-exchange rates. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #741b47;">students ... aware of how economics can be applied to design, guide and interpret commercial, economic, social and environmental policy. As part of this, they have the ability to discuss and analyse government policy and to assess the performance of the UK and other economies, past and present - Quality Assurance Agency</span> benchmark .</i></blockquote>
Customers might know that Churchill joined the gold standard in the 1930s, closing a lot of UK manufacturing to achieve a near 25% non-seasonally adjusted unemployment rate, that the Luftwaffe closed a lot of it in the 1940s, and that Churchill ordered the Bletchley Park computer to be broken up after 1945, stunting a new industry before it started, and that councils tend to demolish a lot of workshop space on any pretext - even the Olympics. Customers don't know about the 1979-2009 blitz caused by a monetary policy of exchange-rate fiddling to promote cheaper imports, that journalists and politicians are still quite keen on the idea, and that alternatives like helping industry work well are not asked-for. Customers know that big orders from China are cheaper, but they don't know that there is a whole range of areas where UK manufacturers could make smaller quicker orders or specialised ones or sell direct to sympathetic customers to cut the costs of a shop. It just takes a patience for lead times and ability to buy what the factory is used to making. Nor are customers schooled to promote good government by buying goods from well-governed countries, rather than buying from countries where there is poverty that causes a population explosion and so goods made for next to nothing. I have a blog post about this after visiting a consensus-building exercise at Labour Behind the Label. Development economics is taught separately from the need for a welfare state in developing countries. Lastly, the word "welfare" is American; government ministers still have trouble understanding the main insurance-like role of the UK state. That is something that better economics courses could help them with.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Textbooks quote stuff which is simply wrong</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
While writing this blog post I bought a second-hand copy of the brick-thick 779-page textbook called Begg that we used on my 1980s degree. It's well-written for a narrow purpose. It would be a good backup to example-based lectures on the same subject taught at the same time. The micro-economics of one or two industries taught, chapter-by-chapter, alongside the introductory micro-economics in the textbook. Further up this page I give quotes where it seems to say one thing in order to fit-in with conventional teaching about unemployment or monetary policy, and then puts a completely different view that's much more important in a little-reach chapter later-on. The Times newspaper was written like that in the 1980s, after a new proprietor took-over and told the staff to agree with Thatcher. It would say "Unemployment getting better, says minister for employment", and then right at the end of the article it would say "blob: fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact which all show that the article just above is rubbish".</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="color: #741b47;">Enabling student development and achievement: providers ... have in place, monitor and evaluate arrangements and resources which enable students to develop their academic, personal and professional potential. - Quality Assurance Agency</span> expectation</i></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Fed-up with Begg at college, I searched the book-shop and found two McMillan books for revision which looked more concise and grown-up. I was wrong on the second point; the more technical economics books are worse. They turned-up on my shelf, decades later, well-hacked with corners cut-off alternate chapter pages, post-it notes, highlighting in two colours and notes in the margins. Macro-Economics, an introduction to Keynesian-Neoclassical Controversies, by Rosalind Lecic and Alexander Rebman, second edition, with The McMillan Dictionary of Modern Economics to match. On p 346 my chosen textbook says "The analysis also implies that if the government attempts to bring down the rate of inflation, unemployment will temporarily rise above the natural rate if expected inflation adjusts with a lag". I wrote "cold shower metaphor" in the margin. Then it's got a bit of the usual prejudice blaming everything on workers and unions causing unemployment by asking for wages, rather than governments fiddling the exchange rate and workers having no control over badly-run companies nor a chance to set-up better ones. It's not very relevant to the UK economy where 1970s inflation had been caused by Arab oil price rises, as we now know in 2015 because falling oil prices keep it down. The textbook finds this monetary policy respectable: "real wages rise and employment falls". This was strikingly obvious in the early 80s, except for the real wage rises, "but as expected inflation falls the short run Phillips curve shifts downwards and the natural rate of unemployment is restored once actual and expected rates of inflation are equal". In the margin I wrote "unless your employer goes bust". The Begg textbook had un-mentioned chapters admitting that real life was different, but in this textbook the next paragraph is just called "The Keynesian counter argument", but it can't be very good because it's hidden behind algebraic shorthand or semaphore or such and I wrote "Duff" at the top. To read this is a bit like sitting in a civil war with two historians talking in your ears about how more nuanced arguments reveal different facets of whether either side are good or bad leaders; it's controversy to please the external course examiners, but not controversy to tell the students what to expect after college.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>degree-awarding bodies use external and independent expertise at key stages of setting and maintaining academic standards to advise on whether UK threshold academic standards are set, delivered and achieved - Quality Assurance Agency expectation</i> <i>a graduate should ... demonstrate knowledge and awareness of the historical and policy contexts in which specific economic analysis is applied - Quality Assurance Agency threshold</i></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on one of the reasons to start writing</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Hilary Ben, James Purnell. Their regime and the generation of civil servants and courtiers within it were very keen on free trade at the expense of the welfare state, whether in Bangladesh where it needs setting-up, or the UK where it needs propping-up with less unfair competition from Bangladesh. So keen that they thought they ought to educate the public in underhand ways. These are people who pay taxpayers' money to explain economic falsehoods to the electorate with the technique of <i>"social proof"</i> provided by their favourite ad agency, Futerra. A much larger group of free-trade politicians at County Hall in London sponsored London Fashion Week, and when the Greater London Authority was set-up again, with a chance of European Regional Development Grant funding for any darn thing the mayor liked, Fashion and free trade were high on the list. Not employment of people in London - those were the little people. <a href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm" title="Ethical Fashion Forum: goods from badly-run countries. ethical fashion brands, ethical clothing uk">http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm</a> is a guide to what happened next and still happens in similar ways, more or less, with each different government. In the 2000s an un-accountable inter-departmental dictat without minister's name or budget co-incided with the interests of a PR agency called Futerra that did a huge amount of governement work and the cross-ministry headings of work by the Crafts Council, the British Council, DEFRA, Department for International Development, Development Studies courses sponsored by UK taxpayers in countries like Bangladesh, The V&A Museum's exhibition of items including dresses from "Juste", a fictional dress company. A slush fund called London Development Agency, and another called the Higher Education Funding Council could find whatever fashion courses they wanted to fund and funded various ISSUU online publications as course materials for fashion students who were to be taught the new truth. A long sentence conveys my sense of information available or not available to taxpayers. Juste, Junky Styling, <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/" title="Ben Ramsden's Pants to Poverty appeared to be a charity and relied intern jobs for its UK office. The company's own website is down and this replacement has some notes on how to reduce poverty">Pants to Poverty</a>, Worn Again, Terra Plana, Ciel, Sari Dress Project and their trade association subsidised by a Bangladeshi trade association that in turn was subsidised by DfID was Ethical Fashion Forum. Which has a page urging people not to buy UK-made products on ethical grounds, for reasons including a pretended ignorance of the welfare state which has costs built-in to the price of every product made in the UK. These brands tried to work with another tax-paid-for slush fund called London Fashion Week, and a room called "estethica" was established which sounds a bit like "ethical" which means nothing because it is a word about types of other words rather than anything more specific. This excess of the 2000s decade is on the wane but there is a chance that I might meet some of its proponents, who used my tax cash to try to put me out of business, and a sense of where we are coming from might be useful. I worked-out that the fictional Juste brand was set-up to justify a second masters degree at Brooks Uni by someone who didn't have a first degree but brushed that under the carpet, along with the fictional nature of Juste. It was meant to be a dress company that was not certified as fair trade nor production in a welfare state like the UK, but some new meaningless category called just "ethical" - a word coined by someone working in central africa for a UN agency to do rather specialised things for which he could thnk of no precise word, and for which he did not need to think of a precise word because he got the subsidy anyway. I have sat in a room with a rep from London College of Fashion who said something like <i>"I don't know how we got money for the fashion project in africa but it was very generous"</i>. I have emailed London Assembly Members to ask why the mayor was spending money in Shanghai rather than Shoreditch, and tried to get meetings through those assembly members with British Fashion Council, the taxpayer-funded PR outfit that runs the show. Given this wave of public-funded kamikazee economics, I was reminded of my own experience studying the subject at Keele, and became interested in the motives and backgrounds of these other people. Some of them seemed quite genuine in their beliefs after studying courses like Economics at UK universities. Now that their cause is out of fashion nobody can divert taxpayer money towards them in a legal way, there is probably no need for me to meet them, but this idea of trying to remember what I learned on a course decades ago came partly of that need - to find what I had in common with other ignorant people who had been on bad courses. As Ethical Fashion Forum went out of fashion and the "founder" lost her job, she emailed to suggest we meet. I would still like to meet, but my thaughts turned to what I could possibly say to the person. I would have to explain that my whole life had been formed by UK government policies to the exchange rate and industry. How could I start trying to explain that? So I have not yet met her, but wrote this blog post instead.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on an imaginary conversation with</span> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">Levacic and Rebman</a> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I would like to meet Rosalind Levacic, ex Open University, and Alexander Rebman, ex Middlesex Uni, to ask whether their courses were eventually closed-down for failing to demonstrate knowledge of the historical and policy context, and sticking to the fictional closed economy with a single workforce bidding for work which existed in the head of someone called Hicks in 1937 and it still talked-about seriously in their book. There are much more and important and obvious questions facing students in the lecture theatre - like jobs you can't get by bidding lower, or can't make a living it - and much more obvious causes of recession like a fiddled exchange rate, recessions in overseas markets, and the separate effects of north sea oil on the exchange rate. I suppose Levacic or Rebman would ask me why I paid for the book if I didn't want it, and it's hard to anticipate the conversation beyond that point but experience from my 1980s course is that they'd change the subject to Chi-squared and theta decimated to avoid the obvious. I didn't get a chance to meet Levacic and Rebman but I did find some obscure journal in the library which said something about the elasticity of unemployment for every-day jobs. Industrial Relations Bulletin of 1986 guesses that doubled unemployment had brought wages down 7-10% ; raised minimum wages, decades later, reduced employment by a rather small amount. There are lots of notes like this in the margin of my Levacic text book, some of them just saying "crap".</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
</h4>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on adding machines</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Maybe the reason for squaring before averaging to get a standard deviation was to show that stats experts were a rank above book keepers who could use machines. Through the 1950s and 60s there were sheet-metal computers using the same technology as old-fashioned shop tills but without the pop-up numbers and the cash drawer. They were called adding machines. The grander ones were called accounting machines and could add, subtract, print on an account sheet, print the same numbers onto a rent book or a payment card, and the same again onto an account card. The cards had a notched bottom edge so you could lay them out in a special notched card trolly, showing the right hand column of each card. It was wonderful to watch. My dad had an accounting machine. They were made by Jubilee Engineering in Scandinavia I think, or Art Metal in the UK. The largest organisations like the US immigration department had a punched card system from firms like IBM that could be read by machine as well as printed. Leslie Fishman was an early user of SPSS software that used this kind of technology to read a database of punched cards at University of Colorado. The software ran on ICL or IBM unix machines like the mainframe at Keele. At the modest end of the market, people used adding machines to fill-in carbon-paper duplicate spreadsheets by hand in deadbeat jobs like working for a housing association. Stonham Housing Association still used them in the 80s. There were special printed sheets and called Gilbert Sheets with special chrome and leather clip boards, or English Churches Housing used Kalamazoo. I suppose that maths teachers wanted to show-off the squaring scales on slide rules with the fancy calculations like squares and square roots for standard deviation.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression about Newton and Pythagoras</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The grand tradition of economics is also bad; of no interest to people who have done an A-level and want to learn more. I don't know what the tradition is precisely - nobody does - but I know that it is bad and think that students are misled when they sign-up and that's why they give bad scores for "staff made the subject interesting" - even more than students of pharmacy or accountancy, because economics students expected something else. They get a tradition of hard mathematical science; a tradition of teaching that Newton invented gravity because he was a genius, and Pythagoras invented the number three-and-a-bit because he was a genius, and you student had better darn learn this daft story as you learn religion from the preacher-man and his big book with the crosses on it. If you have your own idea in this scheme, it isn't true until peer-reviewed in a journal; students are asked to copy the textbooks if they want a qualification. Textbooks copy the journals and journals are written by academics who want a job or to increase Keele Economics Journal Ranking for some pointless reason. It's a self-referential system.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression about science teaching</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I did a science subject at school, called Nuffield Physics, and it was good. On the Nuffieldfoundation.org web site see Teachers > Secondary > Physics and click on a subject like "waves" to see what I mean. We learnt wave patterns (electrical magnetic and physical - they're the same) from our own weights and springs. The course should have thrown-in some music theory as well. We needed special help from the teacher for nuclear physics. The Nuffield Foundation had commissioned polystyrene ping-pong balls the right size so that when glued into an atom shape and revolved on a turntable, they reflected microwaves in the same way as early experiments into nuclear physics. We also learned that when someone resorts to shorthand algebra to explain something, they're bluffing. They're making a simple thing complicated. There's no need. I think this could be why music technology gets bad reviews in colleges nowadays: students know wave patterns from electronics courses, see the same again in music theory courses, and see somone messing around with jargon and shorthand instead of combining the two. The grand tradition has its own history in each subject - often a great one. The scientific method is great. But Mr Doherty, the Eng. Lit. teacher in leather trousers taught us that there were Augustans and Romantics, and that the Augustan idea of knowledge and teaching was a bit like a letterbox: knowledge is posted-in at the start of the course to make sure it has a chance to get there; at the end of the course it is examined whether this knowledge remains in the letterbox. Somehow this differed from the Romantic idea of knowledge in the Eng. Lit. Augustans and Romantics course that's more about people discovering what is in themselves already. I wish Mr Doherty, the Eng. Lit teacher, had explained this to Mr Fishman, the Economics teacher, but now they are both dead; it's up to us who read this. (Side-track: they probably had odd job titles. End of side-track). Oh, I read that the Department of Education has interered in their three exam board's science syllabuses. After seeing what they did for grammer, I suppose they interfere for the worse.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on journal articles</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Take the question of what people do after college. <a href="https://www.hesa.ac.uk/free-statistics">https://www.hesa.ac.uk/free-statistics</a> has some of the stuff you'd expect; you'd expect really good economists to have some special way of writing about the data or obtaining it or generally be good at something. <a href="http://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/9312204.pdf">http://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/9312204.pdf</a> is a the first example that came-up of an economics journal article. It's a bamboozelement exercise written, I guess, to increase one college's statistics for staff writing in academic journals. I don't know what the algebra means. I think that students, like Nuffield Physics students, should be able to opt-out of this game and do something more sensible under a slightly different name, like "sensible economics"; there should be no need to understand what the algebra means, before deciding that it's not useful. Just as there should be no need to understand what's in a homoeopathy degree before deciding not to study homoeopathy, theology, or anything stupid.</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on post-crash economics</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Post-crash economics is a new phrase for an old frustration, and this post looks twice as long as it really is because it peters-out and then shows pinched-and-pasted stuff from the post crash economics society at the end. Thirty years after I was at college, Internet learning has got way better but face-to-face teaching has fewer hours in the timetable. Some teachers still use the those hours as an excuse for teaching textbooks rather than facts and shorthand algebra rather than reasons, and some college managers ignore bad reviews because their budgets make so much money from this cheap-to-run bad economics degree course. Students are using the internet to discover what course is worth the trouble but discover that the newspaper economics league tables are simply wrong - terrible courses and good ones co-exist among different subjects at the same colleges, while the league tables tend to average-out the scores and put the same colleges at the top and bottom of each table. I hope that students kill the algebra-fetish courses that do so much damage by giving bad reviews or asking questions before choosing the course, so that something better can take their place. I hope that future teachers help students discover economics, rather than learn it from a work-book, if it's quicker to teach that way. Break The Guardian reports polite protest by students at a syllabus that is divorced from the real world, as does BBC Radio 4. If the material taught isn't bad enough, the way it's taught is "£9,000 lobotomy" at courses like the one at Glasgow University. What they don't say is that it is a scam. It charges £9,000 to first year students from England and Wales to play with a computer and hand-in an essay that gets 100% for being handed-in on time. For some reason, journalists choose plumbers as examples of scam-merchants rather than universities or trades unions. It is much easier to prove bad service from a plumber and much harder to prove bad service from an economics department charging £9,000, so they are not quoted on Rogue Traders where they belong.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on overly mathmatical economists</span> </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<i>Professional economics .. is very, very mathematical. This is true both for theoretical economics, which involves a lot of theoretical maths, and for applied economics, which involves a lot of number crunching of one sort and another.</i> - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/aug/04/economics.alevels">Tim Leunig of the LSE writing in The Guadian, 2008</a> This begs a question: why don't economists use a computer? I suppose they do, so the computer programmer does the detailed maths and the economist just has to learn to use the program and make sense of it. The same article suggests that economists aren't well educated. <i>Today many people call for restrictions on trade, even though every economist worth that title knows that free trade is good for both sides in almost all circumstances. Similarly many aid groups call for policies that will immiserate the very people they claim to want to help. Many people support those calls because they know so little about how the economy works, and people in the developing world are poorer as a result.</i> That statement strikes me as ignorant. Free trade between a welfare state, with high social insurance costs, and another country with lower costs, can't work very well. The problem is made worse because very poor people tend to cope by having a lot of children, partly to look after them in old-age, and partly because the girls aren't at secondary school. Add to that the complications of manipulated currencies - often manipulated on economic advice - and export subsidies that exist in countries like Bangladesh - and you get an economic disaster which this economist has no idea about. He doesn't even know that he has no idea.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">Digression on Keele buildings</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span face="" guess="" i="" span=""><i>"enforced<span face="">... <span face="">reduction of student numbers <span face="">... despite peak demand"</span></span></span></i> <span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">was part of the package of cuts. I suppose it was based on buildings. Colleges owned a lot of <span face="">r<span face="">abbit hutches to put students in. I guess the reduction was down to the level that the college would house, <span face="">to avoid <span face="">reports of <span face="">wasted</span> rooms. Keele had some <span face="">good</span> rooms b<span face="">uilt <span face=""><span face="">in the 7<span face="">0s</span></span> were asked to stretch <span face="">bu<span face="">dgets, called the Z-blocks. They had breeze block walls<span face=""> without plaster,</span> emulsioned, with a pl<span face="">astic duct at<span face=""> picture-r<span face="">ail height</span></span> <span face="">to <span face="">c<span face="">onnect</span></span> wall lamps and a <span face="">bathroom s<span face="">tring-p<span face="">ull to t<span face="">urn them on or <span face="">off. At the same time the rooms were big and the kitchens and bathrroms were shared between small numbers. I've not seen that style anywhere else since but it is a good style <span face="">to copy and seek-out I think<span face="">. Monastic. Maybe <span face="">they should be listed. </span><span face="">There were others with white-painted brick walls <span face="">li<span face="">t from the si<span face="">de, which <span face="">always look good.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face=""><span face="">Someone had been on a course at Warwick. Apparently the<span face="">ir rabbit hutches took students of the same year-group and put them together, to increase the chance of <span face="">near-strangers deciding to go to films or meals together on<span face="">ce in<span face=""> a while. Ke<span face="">ele </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>didn't have that system.<span face=""><span face=""><br />
<br />
<span face="">O<span face="">ne year, I was a <span face="">cool person. A <span face="">house share off-campus, which wa<span face="">s unusual at the time<span face="">. It <span face="">didn't go well because housing benefit for s<span face="">tudents was cut-back a bit while we we<span face="">re on it, and I didn't really understand the system<span face="">, but <i>- hey!</i><span face=""><i> -</i> I was a cool person for one year and it went well for part of the year.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Free Bonus Afterthought: the worst degrees make most money</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Digression on how this blog post comes about</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
I sometimes blog about bad economics. That reminded me that once, years ago, I did an economics and english degree with short courses, so I wondered: "what did I learn?" for two or three reasons.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">One:</span> I discover that others have the same frustration, hoping to study the economic crisis outlined in Robert Peston books and how politicians respond, but finding a course of computer multiple choice tests about X-shaped diagrams. I had a very similar frustration during the 1980s pillage of UK manufacturing that continued till 2009 in application of exchange-rate fiddles meant to reduce inflation, and continues to the time of writing in application of free-trade theory to countries with lower costs for the lack of a welfare state and because this leads to a population explosion.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
This is relevant to my job of trying to sell UK-made footwear.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Two:</span> Oxford Economics publishes reports commissioned by the Greater London Authority to justify crap like the Olympics or "The Value of Fashion", a long pdf document about why the Greater London Authority should spend money on PR for frocks rather than regional development of job prospects as suggested in the name of the EU grant they spend, which is called "regional development grant" not "taxpayer-funding for Chinese frocks grant", which has the opposite effect I think. Oxford Economics give away an Excel macro for double-checking their figures, and I hope one day to download it and learn how to use it for just that purpose.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Three:</span> I wonder how to present myself to lobby groups promoting opposite opinions, namely supporters of free trade with Bangladesh, subsidies to better Bangladeshi employers, diversion of EU regional development grants to the London region towards boosting the same, and a similar but more generic and less micro-managed economic policy for China or Vietnam or any other country in the world that's cheap because of over-population caused by the lack of a welfare state. One solution is to expose these groups as lobby groups, but another is to try to suggest a better solution, and for that purpose I need to look like a real person with real reasons for coming to a point of view. Those who write web sites to promote concepts like "ethical fashion" come to this form a different angle to me, but share a vague aquainance with economic theory; they quote phrases like "comparative advantage". If I can put by economic training online, without pretension, that can only be good.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Free bonus afterthought: what did a Belstaff motorbike jacket look like?</span> </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both;">
<a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Bond_Bug_ca_1970.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="192" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Bond_Bug_ca_1970.jpg" width="320" /></a><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Bond_Bug_ca_1970.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><span style="color: black;">I</span></a>Bond Buggies were made in Tamworth until production ceased before the 1979 change in economic policy, so maybe economic policies are not to blame for every failure of manufacturing. I think Belstaff did close during the 1980s recession so they'd be a better example to quote. There were also some posh pot makers who kept going with their chintz and figurines, and a factory making cast steel parts for bicycles.</div>
Macro economics ought to cover why politicians have so much difficulty spending money on insurance-like services, such as social care, rather than paying for things best done in the private sector like paying for interesting pointy things and bond buggys.</blockquote>
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Free bonus afterthought: how long should you hold a grudge?</span> </h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
I had forgotten most of Keele University's economics teaching except the good bits, which is what human beings to do. The filter that helps you survive day-to-day is different to the filter that helps you survive when looking-back, and I'm only looking back because unable to do a bit of software now at age 50 and do this as a distraction. But now I re-discover memories, the question comes-up: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOzNsQyamvk">is it good to dredge-up a name after 30 years</a>? A witty man who had done a boring job for decades? Easy compared to criticising people who are still alive and even employed at Keele, for their sake and mine because they might have better memories, better records, answer-back and prove me wrong about something which would be hard work on both sides. Fair because my dad did a degree, I did a degree, people I know have done degrees, and I think I have some background idea of expectations when I check them against the bureaucratic benchmarks. 1980s Keele economics was different to my background idea and different to the benchmark. Some lectured or taught well, but the course was as described above. If the boss with his MI5-recorded background has left lots of records to say why, that would be a really good thing for somebody to research when these records reach the National Archive in a few decades. Reason says: this is necessary because education is a bit like restoring old cars - great when it is done well and awful when done badly because it is hard to sue for something so vague as bad education or a bad second hand car. Therefore the world needs reviews of people who restore second hand cars just as it needs reviews of educators. There is a review system between colleges. I'd like to see a few reviewers from different types of course, just to stop on discipline like Economics falling so far behind the standards of others. Gut feeling says: more please. I am angrier now, with perspective, than I was in 1983 when my <i>"attitude has been noted by all members of the department"</i>, starting with Dr Johns while the syllabus and teaching style was set by a bluffer called Professor Les Fishman who probably fiddled his CV and did as much as possible by teaching Samuelson by wrote. My gut feeling is angry with the peer review teachers from other colleges who saw the scam and wrote <i>"don't close this course just yet - they have a problem with lack of timetable space and choose to spend two hours a week teaching manual computation of stats years after computers have become domestic appliances, so it's difficult for them"</i>. It is not difficult. There is no excuse for teaching manual computation in 1985. I want to know the names of the people were who signed-off this course as OK and how bad their courses were if they thought this was pretty typical. My gut feeling is angry with college management with their funny job titles and nasty treatment of students, for thinking it was OK to allow this man to continue in post. They were also the people who took over the student union building the year I left, apparently, and had it decorated like McDonalds, so they are clearly unpleasant people in the judgements they make, but even so they should have had some system for finding out if this course was a rip-off to students. Social awkwardness says: one teacher at Keele is still working from the time I was there and one or two are retired. Lots of people do little bits of work at colleges like teaching one bit of a course or one lecture or supervising MA students and I know nothing about any of those people. It's awkward, but constructive feedback is welcome. Politics says: this post ought to be about Alan Walters, the economist who closed so much UK manufacturing. Somehow, that disaster of a man gained credibility as a government advisor more powerful than the chancellor, on the back of a stupid job like teaching economics in the USA. Somehow, he is still remembered with a filter of denial, just as Fishman is still remembered with a filter of denial at Keele. If anyone ever tried to be one of Alan Walters students and can write something like this, they'd do the world a favour.</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Footnote:</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
*M1 M2 M3 and M4 are the short money supply titles as well as motorways. Banchees Leprechauns Pookahs and Dullahans are the longer titles. There is no doubt that these things exist, but some doubt as to how much they influence events. I think one of the Keele lecturers wrote a short paper to show mathmatically that one of them is nothing to do with anything.</div>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="hhttps://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html</a> has as many references and quotes as I can find for Leslie Fishman, including a 5,800 word article and being part of a team to make a 1960s punch-card database on unemployment statistics for reading by computer.</div>
<hr style="text-align: left;" />
<div style="text-align: left;">
Odd cut-and-paste quotes from <a href="http://shifter-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/thorstein-veblen-the-theory-of-the-leisure-class.pdf">Thorsten Veblen</a> on learning. Paragraph breaks are stripped-out by mistake. Even to-day there are such things in the usage of the learned community as the cap and gown, matriculation, initiation, and graduation ceremonies, and the conferring of scholastic degrees, dignities, and prerogatives in a way which suggests some sort of a scholarly apostolic succession. And as commonly happens with mediators between the vulgar and their masters, whether the masters be natural or preternatural, he found it expedient to have the means at hand tangibly to impress upon the vulgar the fact that these inscrutable powers would do what he might ask of them. Hence, presently, a knowledge of certain natural processes which could be turned to account for spectacular effect, together with some sleight of hand, came to be an integral part of priestly lore. So far as they possess them, the lower and less reputable branches of the educational scheme have evidently borrowed these things from the higher grades; and their continued persistence among the practical schools, without the sanction of the continued example of the higher and classic grades, would be highly improbable, to say the least. <i>nice quote about thrift and industriousness here</i> there is some tendency latterly to substitute the captain of industry in place of the priest, as the head of seminaries of the higher learning. The substitution is by no means complete or unequivocal. Those heads of institutions are best accepted who combine the sacerdotal office with a high degree of pecuniary efficiency. There is a similar but less pronounced tendency to in trust the work of instruction in the higher learning to men of some pecuniary qualification. Administrative ability and skill in advertising the enterprise count for rather more than they once did, as qualifications for the work of teaching. This applies especially in those sciences that have most to do with the everyday facts of life, and it is particularly true of schools in the economically single-minded communities. This partial substitution of pecuniary for sacerdotal efficiency is a concomitant of the modern transition from conspicuous leisure to conspicuous consumption, as the chief means of reputability. The correlation of the two facts is probably clear without further elaboration.</div>
<span class="post-author vcard"> Posted by <span class="fn" itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"> <a class="g-profile" data-gapiattached="true" data-gapiscan="true" data-onload="true" href="https://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112" rel="author" title="author profile"> <span>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and belts</span> </a></span></span> </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com39Keele, Newcastle, Staffordshire ST5, UK53.0038224 -2.287340399999948252.9942674 -2.307510399999948 53.013377399999996 -2.2671703999999484tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-35513141567002870342015-08-23T15:17:00.001+01:002018-10-21T10:23:26.763+01:00Do e-commerce sites have to state the country of origin? - North American and European answer<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><head> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/08/do-e-commerce-sites-have-to-state.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><a href="http://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-it-compulsory-for-clothing-e-commerce-websites-to-specify-on-each-product-page-where-the-clothes-were-produced">http://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-it-compulsory-for-clothing-e-commerce-websites-to-specify-on-each-product-page-where-the-clothes-were-produced</a><br />
<br />
The link has a couple of answers for two different trading blocks, North America and Europe.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-it-compulsory-for-clothing-e-commerce-websites-to-specify-on-each-product-page-where-the-clothes-were-produced/answer/Kathleen-Fasanella" title="US answer: it is compulsory to state country of origin">The American answer says there is a law forcing people to state the country of origin</a>, but that it isn't enforced.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.quora.com/Why-isnt-it-compulsory-for-clothing-e-commerce-websites-to-specify-on-each-product-page-where-the-clothes-were-produced/answer/John-Robertson-11" title="EU UK answer: it is not compulsory to state the country of origin">The European answer states that EU makers are too-much lobbied or too feckless to allow their voters such information</a>. The European Union finds it impossible to do something that's possible in America. However things might be changing with <a href="http://makeitbritish.co.uk/made_in_britain/made-britain-labels-become-compulsory/">a 2014 EU directive</a>, opposed by German and UK delegates, to make force EU manufacturers to label their EU origins.<br />
<br />
Neither answer states where to look-up the law or lack of law, but both look pretty convincing and one has links to parliamentary debates on the subject<br />
<br />
That's it.<br />
<br />
Here are some related blog posts and afterthoughts.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj16XcGhTxgjRn7XDnFRFFWgmQAYO5Dhn7VHdhHaUOhcSylAua9d-TLhU6EIRIfhmHDf2kYHmQa2_WT1OeiGKA7-T8iXuy4n1DxBZAiAXZdAFYQGnqfxg12OF0VblGLEJV8qSvp4jAQ66ON/s1600/union-jack-swing-tag.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br />
</a></div><ul style="text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj16XcGhTxgjRn7XDnFRFFWgmQAYO5Dhn7VHdhHaUOhcSylAua9d-TLhU6EIRIfhmHDf2kYHmQa2_WT1OeiGKA7-T8iXuy4n1DxBZAiAXZdAFYQGnqfxg12OF0VblGLEJV8qSvp4jAQ66ON/s1600/union-jack-swing-tag.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"></a>
<li><a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Shoe shop that states the country of origin - selling UK and european-made footwear">Veganline.com is a shoe shop that tries to sell UK-made products and label by country of origin</a>.<br />
Make It British has a couple of posts about labelling. I hope to get a bit of search ranking by publishing this related stuff.</li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/bad-economics-teaching.html" title="Post crash economics.In memory of all those taught by the late Professor Les Fishman and his staff">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/bad-economics-teaching.html</a> is a post about how bad econmics teaching <span style="font-family: inherit;">works. Teachers get lecture notes and such from the McGraw Hill Publishing Company<span style="font-family: inherit;">, teach from the textbook, and av<span style="font-family: inherit;">oid facts.</span></span></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/" TITLE="Pants to Poverty saldaged web site"><span style="font-family: inherit;">P</span>antstopoverty.org.uk</a> is a <span style="font-family: inherit;">salv<span style="font-family: inherit;">edged <span style="font-family: inherit;">web site<span style="font-family: inherit;">, reclaimed in order to write why the great Pants to Po<span style="font-family: inherit;">verty craze did not take-off in propo<span style="font-family: inherit;">rti<span style="font-family: inherit;">on to costs as hoped. A review<span style="font-family: inherit;"> <span style="font-family: inherit;">of social enterpr<span style="font-family: inherit;">ise examples, one or two per country<span style="font-family: inherit;"> for <span style="font-family: inherit;">a Eur<span style="font-family: inherit;">opean Parliamen<span style="font-family: inherit;">t committee, says that Pants <span style="font-family: inherit;">"only" sold <span style="font-family: inherit;">£250,000<span style="font-family: inherit;">-worth in a good year<span style="font-family: inherit;">. <span style="font-family: inherit;">Maybe the problem was that Pants to Poverty were wrong about <span style="font-family: inherit;">whether they were helping.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> </span></span></span></span> </li>
<li><a href="http://makeitbritish.co.uk/uk-manufacturing-2/a-step-forward-for-made-in-britain-labelling/">http://makeitbritish.co.uk/uk-manufacturing-2/a-step-forward-for-made-in-britain-labelling/</a></li>
<li><a href="http://makeitbritish.co.uk/made_in_britain/made-britain-labels-become-compulsory/">http://makeitbritish.co.uk/made_in_britain/made-britain-labels-become-compulsory/</a><br />
Here is a related subject: how to tell people that your product is made in the UK. A tricky point because you have already spent money on the income tax and national insurance of people who make the product, their high rent, and the costs of safety laws or general civic stuff that don't apply in China or Rana Plaza so there is no money left-over for anything else, like explaining sales points.</li>
<li>Vistaprint used to offer more cashback through cashback web sites than they charged in their postage-only offer on 250 template cards with a lie on the back - a note that business cards are free when they're not. They've also cancelled their union jack template from their cheapest templates, so the days of making money by ordering swing tags are over unfortunately.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.morplan.com/shop/en/morplan/special-purpose-tickets-72201">Moorplan sell some cheap made-in cards</a>, one country only.<br />
Walk-in to a shop to buy 100 at 3-4p per card.<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj16XcGhTxgjRn7XDnFRFFWgmQAYO5Dhn7VHdhHaUOhcSylAua9d-TLhU6EIRIfhmHDf2kYHmQa2_WT1OeiGKA7-T8iXuy4n1DxBZAiAXZdAFYQGnqfxg12OF0VblGLEJV8qSvp4jAQ66ON/s1600/union-jack-swing-tag.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj16XcGhTxgjRn7XDnFRFFWgmQAYO5Dhn7VHdhHaUOhcSylAua9d-TLhU6EIRIfhmHDf2kYHmQa2_WT1OeiGKA7-T8iXuy4n1DxBZAiAXZdAFYQGnqfxg12OF0VblGLEJV8qSvp4jAQ66ON/s1600/union-jack-swing-tag.jpg" /></a><br />
Order 1 box @ 1000 online and pay delivery but a lower rate per card.<br />
Order 2 box @ 2000 online to get 1.6p per card with free delivery.<br />
<br />
Moorplan also sell woven name tapes rather like over-size cashe's school name tapes in black or white to say "made in england". I plan to do a post on product labelling some time and so shall keep the other options secret to build-up anticipation. </li>
</ul><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimKe24dBY3MTmX6bnIA5p0k8A1NvPJUfLM-bm_MLLGUn8TF2j1il_yRqcHgygzgqysvg1rM98pPHklRzuxDDNYxiTNgx44uz34TS72Uw6fC8at_lu2zb459IQ8VS9tJ0HjMMDHLggHaOF6/s1600/made-in-britain-label.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimKe24dBY3MTmX6bnIA5p0k8A1NvPJUfLM-bm_MLLGUn8TF2j1il_yRqcHgygzgqysvg1rM98pPHklRzuxDDNYxiTNgx44uz34TS72Uw6fC8at_lu2zb459IQ8VS9tJ0HjMMDHLggHaOF6/s1600/made-in-britain-label.jpg" /></a></div><br />
<br />
If you print your own cards in colour and want a first idea for a design, there's a free one commissioned by a firm called Stoves.co.uk available to anyone who makes something in Britain, as enforceable by trading standards agencies. It is an open source design. They no longer promote the scheme and have picked a niftier logo for a new scheme that you have to subscribe to. Neither logo suggests why anybody should care what country something is made-in, and both are brash about origin in a way that's out of fashion everywhere but sports grounds, but hey.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://makeitbritish.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Made_in_britain_logo.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Made in Britain" border="0" src="https://makeitbritish.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Made_in_britain_logo.jpg" title=""></a></div></blockquote><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-81856514909163091432015-08-21T14:41:00.002+01:002021-01-04T13:39:17.957+00:00Installing pictobrowser galleries of photos from flickr or picassa onto a web page<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><head> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/08/installing-pictobrowser-galleries.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h1 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Installing pictobrowser galleries of photos from flickr or picassa onto a web page</span></h1><blockquote class="tr_bq">One day I hope to have a site on software that has plugins for image galleries, so images can be hosted on sites like Flickr and <strike>Picassa</strike>, which saves server space, might increase options for quick uploading, and adds some slider-viewer-gallery-type functions so that the viewer can choose which of the photos to view. (Picassa is now closed to new uploads)<br />
<br />
Most e-commerce sites have a single main picture shown and then a 360 degree slide show or a series of other pictures, and mostly with magnification in a pop-up window as an options. My work-around does not offer a magnified version and offers one basic layout for the first picture and icons to others, which can be adjusted by the way you embed it.<br />
<br />
Most e-commerce sites aim for quick loading of the first picture if it's shown on the customer's screen. My work-around does not offer that, so it's something that better suits sideline sites and just happens to do for now for ecommerce. I think there would be more services like this, and possibly there are, but they are hard to find because different types of people want different things from this technology. The most common application is showing a bunch of photos. Showing 360 degree spins or ecommerce photos on a flat-file web site is more rare. Flat file sites are <a href="http://www.typeandgrids.com/blog/goodbye-wordpress-2014-will-be-the-year-of-flat-file-cmses">coming back into fashion</a> for speed and cheapness, but are still <a href="http://www.typeandgrids.com/blog/goodbye-wordpress-2014-will-be-the-year-of-flat-file-cmses#comment-2187054196">not much good for ecommerce</a>, and the need to drop-in some kind of third party picture gallery (or shopping cart) is one of the reasons.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"> Pictobrowser is my work-around </span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">(<a href="http://handy-web-hints.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/embedding-flickr-into-websites.html">handy-web-hints.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/embedding-flickr-into-websites.html</a> says that there's another.)<br />
<b>db798.com</b>/<a href="http://www.db798.com/pictobrowser/">pictobrowser</a>/ - front page with explanation and instructions<br />
<b>db798.com</b>/<a href="http://www.db798.com/pictobrowser/samples.html">pictobrowser/samples.html</a> - samples of what it can do. They start with a grey pattern<br />
<b>db798.com</b>/<a href="http://www.db798.com/pictobrowser/builder.php">pictobrowser/builder.php</a> - is a form that writes a script for each kind of sample<br />
<b>db798.com</b>/<a href="http://instruction.swf/">instruction.swf</a> - is a form for one default setting that shows the plain text of the script on screen.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"> Showing a default picture instead of a "get flash player" message</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Once you have a copy of the script, it can be easier to lay it out in a text editor with a line for each bit, just in for ease of tweaking and in order to guess how the long the long line of code works. <br />
I don't know how it works<br />
A pattern of phrases beginning "so" and ending ";" seems to define variables. <br />
The file is easier to read if you put each of these phrases on one line with a plain text editor.<br />
There is also a bit a the top that says something like "if you don't have flash player you can get a free one here". Mobile phones are set up not to want to download flash player in order to save phone bills. Blogger.co.uk seems to be set-up the same way as well. It's better to put a default first photo in that space so it shows on the site as soon as possible.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"> Hosting your own swfobject.js javascript for Pictobrowser</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">One link at the top of the script is to a javascript:<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.db798.com/pictobrowser/swfobject.js"</span><br />
It is possible to save this as a file on your own host - assuming that it allows javascripts - just to stop information having to hop back and forth between your server and pictobrowser's server. You'd have to change the link to the javascript as well. It's a standard javascript and there is stuff on the net about how it works, which I don't much understand.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Hosting your own .swf shockwave flash file for Pictobrowser</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Another link very near the top of the shockwave flash file:<br />
http://www.db798.com/<a href="http://pictobrowserp.swf/">pictobrowserp.swf</a><br />
It is possible to save this as a file on your own host - assuming that it allows .swf files - just to stop information having to hop back and forth between your server and pictobrowser's server. You'd have to change the link to the flash file as well. It is not a standard flash file, or at least I have not found stuff on the net about how it works.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Removing the grey patterned placeholder from Pictobrowser's flash file</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">If you managed to get a default photo from the gallery to show instead of the "get flash player" message, it's frustrating to see it disappear again as flash-enabled browsers load and show the grey wiggle pattern for a second or two instead. It's the same pattern that you get if you click on the "pictorbrowserp.swf" link above, so I think they are connected.<br />
<br />
I've discovered that there are flash decompilers that convert it to an .fla file. They exist online.<br />
<br />
I've discovered that there are programs like <a href="http://free-decompiler.com/">free-decompiler.com</a> that do more. The help page of that one links to some blog posts about fiddling with flash. This is the point at which I gave-up last time. If anyone would like to suggest a new pictobrowserp.swf file without the wibbly-wobbly grey placeholder, they would make me happy.<br />
<br />
I might come back and post some code examples from the Veganline.com site, but don't promise that they're written in the best way.<br />
<br />
By the way, if you look at the source code for this last bit, you will see a default script from db798.com/<a href="http://instruction.swf/">instruction.swf</a> used to show some UK-made vegan bouncing womens' brogue shoes.<br />
You can see a version with its own default photo instead of "get flash player", and my choice of settings for some other stuff like sizes and self-hosted javascript and flash files on the source of this page:<br />
<a href="https://veganline.com/tredair-bouncing/tredair-monkey-boot">https://veganline.com/tredair-bouncing/tredair-monkey-boot</a> which shows some rather wonderful monkey boots made in the UK. I hope to change it soon. If it has changed you might have to trawl through the source code of an archived version : <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150329102305/http://veganline.com/bouncing-monkey-boot.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20150329102305/http://veganline.com/bouncing-monkey-boot.htm</a><br />
<fieldset>Pictobrowser is my work-around - Showing a default picture instead of a "get flash player" message - Hosting your own swfobject.js javascript for Pictobrowser - Hosting your own .swf shockwave flash file for Pictobrowser - Removing the grey patterned placeholder from Pictobrowser's flash file </fieldset></blockquote><hr /><div id="PictoBrowser150821141815">Get the flash player here: http://www.adobe.com/flashplayer<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">This shows on the default view of blogspot.co.uk but not the magazine view - I don't know why.<br />
Just another example of why a picture is a better place-holder than a line saying "get flash player here..."</span></div><script src="https://www.db798.com/pictobrowser/swfobject.js" type="text/javascript">
</script> <br />
---------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />
<br />
A similar free and easy program geared to flickr (not picassa) is <br />
<a href="http://flickrslidr.com/">http://flickrslidr.com</a>/ which doesn't have obvious examples of what it can do<br />
<br />
Juicebox with Flickr looks a good free one too, with an example on<br />
http://www.englishweavers.co.uk. This is what they say:<br />
<b>JuiceboxBuilder</b> is a desktop application for building Juicebox galleries. It runs on:<br />
<ul><li>Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8.</li>
<li>Mac OS X 10.6 or higher.</li>
</ul><b>Web Server</b> <br />
<ul><li>To display Juicebox galleries you need a website and a way to upload files (usually via FTP). We do not host image galleries on our servers</li>
<li>Password Protection and Image Download features require PHP version 5.2 (or higher) on the web server. The vast majority of web servers run this version of PHP. To find out which version of PHP your server runs, please check with your web server tech support, or follow <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Check-PHP-Version">these instructions</a>.</li>
</ul><br />
<br />
<br />
Another program like pictobrowser that came-on on searches was<br />
http://visualslideshow.com/slideshow-software.html, but it turns-out to be $49 for commercial use or to use without a link back to the publisher. An advantage is that there is a version with no flash. Or possibly good: people who pay do download photos they don't want onto their mobiles might think it's bad.<br />
<div id="PictoBrowser150821141815"><hr align="LEFT>
other posts:<br />
<a href=" atom.xml="" http:="" redirect="false&start-index=1&max-results=500" veg-buildlog.blogspot.com="" /><div style="text-align: left;"><br />
Batteries, chargers and flashlights have a testing blog on <a href="http://lygte-info.dk/">lygte-info.dk</a> where they can read about each other. <i>"I do publish most reviews on BLF, batteries and charger are also published on CPF and Fonarevka", </i>says the author.<br />
<br />
This came to mind because product photography lighting can be a chore. You need to use either very bright lights - strobes - or have good curtains to photograph during the day and get even results. For the draw-curtains-and-use-steady-lights method, you ideally need dimmer switches and bulbs that render most of the colours, evenly enough for your camera to adjust. Strobes were the technology of the 2010s but continuous LED lighting has emerged as a new cheap option, with 160-led lights under £15 from China. Their continuous light could be used for table lamps as well as for photography, and allows more intuitive set-up of pictures for someone who hasn't the concentration to stick to one job for a long time. This is why batteries become interesting.<br />
<br />
160-led lights appear to use 9v 3a transformers, so far as I can tell from Aliexpress, but are more often used with video batteries which are a couple of lithium-iron in series. Cheap lithium-iron batteries have also just emerged on Aliexpress, and a charger that can cope with them has arrived in the post. In a way, this is exciting.<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/goog_639559522"><br />
</a> <a href="http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Xiamen%20Nanfu%20HG-1412W%20UK.html">http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Xiamen%20Nanfu%20HG-1412W%20UK.html</a><br />
...is the review of a the cheapest charger for Li-ion batteries and the other sort.<br />
<i>"The charger will charge lots of chemistries, but it do not use the correct algorithm for any of them. The charger is useable, but not the correct charger if you care about your batteries or want a safe charger"</i>. If I understood the graphs and explanations a bit better, this might be more useful, but it gets me started.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: right;">this blog exists to promote <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">Veganline.com, a shoe shop that sells vegan shoes online</a> </div><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">other blog posts on one page</a></div><br />
</div><br />
</div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3London, UK51.5073509 -0.1277582999999822351.1912379 -0.77320529999998222 51.8234639 0.51768870000001777tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-36791403342603568492015-07-31T17:43:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:23:29.696+01:00Stock-control puzzle: how products are related to each other<head> <link rel="canonical" href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/shopkeeper-puzzle-how-products-are.html" /> </head> <div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><hr align="LEFT" /><h2 style="text-align: left;"><b>Shopping cart software and stock control. <br />
How are products related to each other?</b> </h2><blockquote class="tr_bq">Programmers see products and attributes in a different way to shopkeepers.<br />
Programmers use language to describe the subtleties, but I don't think there is any standard way of using words to describe</blockquote><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><blockquote class="tr_bq">different ways that programmers relate data, and</blockquote></li>
<li><blockquote class="tr_bq">different ways that shopkeepers relate stock</blockquote></li>
</ul><blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
Programmers see a product, and a variation to make a 2D table, and another variation to make a 3D table, and a third to become something you can't draw. Programmers take that product and add more to it at the checkout stage, when shipping zones and such are attached.<br />
<br />
Shopkeepers see products in a way that has probably built-up over the years from experience, rudely interrupted each time their systems are automated. I'm thinking of small-scale self-employed shopkeepers and stall-holders and people who sell things online with DIY shopping cart software. People who work in logistics at Tesco are probably ahead of me in their analysis. They don't need to read the relationships below, which are customer expectation, ability to alter the product after an order has come-in, and then some relationships further-up the supply chain. These can be whether a product has a minimum, such as five reams of paper in a carton, or a minimum per type of product, such as any choice of sizes of green slipper from the slipper manufacturer, or any choice of products from the slipper shoe and boot wholesaler.</blockquote><hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Customer expectation about stock?</b></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I can have nearly identical products from different suppliers within one family. <br />
To a programmer they can share a photograph and an ordering system.<br />
To the customer they are T shirts in small medium or large sizes.<br />
As long as the customer doesn't mind, I can have blue T shirts from one supplier and red T shirts from another supplier, and they are all just a T shirt range to the customer. The link is that the customer is likely to look for T shirts and then think about size, unless a shopping cart persuades a customer to state a size while browsing. People with specialist clothes shops particularly want a full size range. They don't want a customer to make a special journey one Saturday, think they have seen a product available, and then discover that it's not.</blockquote><hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Can stock be altered on-site, after an order comes-in?</b></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Shopkeepers are used to altering the address and delivery costs after an order comes in. They may offer gift wrapping or first class postage. I could probably turn a white T shirt into a blue T shirt, but I am not sure if the dye would be fast or cheap or that I could do it quickly enough for it to be worth the time. Maybe a specialist T shirt printer would know. I couldn't turn a blue T shirt into a white T shirt. I can turn a long belt into a short belt and that's quite common in belt shops. I specialise more in belts. I can keep kits of parts and make belts to any length up to a maximum.<br />
<br />
If a shopkeeper can turn one product into another as with belt length or gift-wrapping, that's one relation between products; if not, I think of them as separate products within a family. Maybe that's why Americans keep using the term "SKU" or "Stock Keeping Unit", or maybe that's just a bit of jargon they like to use in America.</blockquote><hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Is stock separated from other products back-up the supply chain? </b> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I cannot turn a size 8 into a size 9 by stretching. I cannot make shoes after an order comes-in.<br />
<br />
Shopkeepers see a product as something that comes from up the supply chain.<br />
Products have family relations to each other. Just as sheep are used to living in herds, shoes are used to living in size ranges. They go-about in pairs, like pidgeons, but before they are sold they also like to have a hurd like sheep or cows. A full size range has a higher vaue because it matches customer expectations. Sizes are linked further-up the supply chain in the way that the size range is available. Complexity lurks, un-stated, as something that I just worked-out as I went along last time I organised the way I do business.</blockquote><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Is stock linked to other products by supplier minimum orders?</b></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">One of my suppliers can send anything in the catalogue, whatever size it is, from whatever range, if I make a minimum order value. So the sizes are linked by customer expectation - the wish to see a choice of sizes - and by a wider family of goods from one supplier, and their minimum order for cheap delivery which takes two or three working days. That contradicts my statement that I can't alter a shoe after the order comes-in. If the wholesaler will send quickly enough or send direct to the customer, then the stock-keeping task is to know what's in their warehouse as well as my small stock room. I can advertise a product as in stock - perhaps with an asterisk to say that delivery is subject to confirmation and will take a few days, or with simpler software I can just mark it in stock and take a chance.</blockquote><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Is stock linked to other products by supplier constraints within an order?</b> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">One of my suppliers makes shoes in sizes. They will make 12 of a style - any size combinations - within a minimum order for free delivery which is 24. So the relations are style for a minimum order per style, and supplier for a minimum order per free delivery. There's also a 2-3 month lead time.<br />
<br />
One supplier that I don't use sells shoes in pre-paks. So-many size 3, so-many size 4, more size 5 and 6, less size 7 and so many size 8. These are ordered as one product; they can't come in any other size ratio, but they are separate in their ability to be out of stock. Some combination of stock should persuade a shopkeeper to order another carton. I'm not sure how it goes.</blockquote><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Is stock linked to other products by supplier rules?</b> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">If I sold food or stationary, it would be normal for a supplier to sell things in minimums within the minimum order for free delivery. They would be packed in sixes and twelves and crates and boxes. The rule us that a supplier will not break-open a pack in order to reduce picking and packing costs; a wholesaler sells the whole pack. Hence the name. The rule can relate to a real pack, or it can be applied arbitarilly by the supplier.<br />
<br />
I'm still confused but at least I have written the problem down. <br />
I have not written a neat summery or solution.<br />
I think programmers are confused in how to present their software as well; I haven't seen standard language used or explained.</blockquote></div><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">the author</span> sells <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="boots belts and jackets, vegan frienldy, mainly made in the UK">vegan shoes online at Veganline.com</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">, a UK online vegan shoe sho<span style="font-family: inherit;">p <br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">related post: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">Free Fast and Pretty - which shopping cart<span style="font-family: inherit;">?</span></a></span></span></span></span></span></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-34046479506819917282015-07-26T17:03:00.029+01:002018-10-21T10:23:31.461+01:0080gsm A4 office paper in the UK - where's cheap?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><head> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h2 style="text-align: left;"></h2><h2 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Cheap paper</span></h2><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>I have some other posts about ink-saving and how to save paper with different layouts.<br />
<ul><li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/</a><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html" title="how to measure ink coverage or toner coverage of a document or a font for ink saving">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html </a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html" title="Printer.com's original test: Does Font Choice Make a Difference to ink saving?">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html" title="Ink coverage and economy of 100 fonts compared">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" title="where and how to buy cheap A4 office copy paper in the UK">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html</a><b> </b><span style="color: red;"><b> <here</b></span></li>
</ul></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="color: red;">Cheap paper</span> - Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket - £12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT. - Cheap A4 paper special offers - Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work - recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket</span></span> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><br />
0.5p a sheet on mysupermarket in July 2015. (and Wilko, not on mysupermarket.)<br />
<a href="https://www.wilko.com/stationery/icat/officestationery">Wilko</a> paper | <a href="https://www.wilko.com/icat/paperandcard#esp_cf=pdxttype&esp_filter_pdxttype=Copier%20Paper">Printer copier paper - grey packet</a> | <a href="https://www.wilko.com/store-locator/page/storelocator">store locator </a>- choose a large branch or click and collect. Grey packs are 0.48p a sheet; double-A is 0.5p a sheet. There are cashback offers on their order-online and collect service, and they take all major credit cards including cashback ones.<br />
<a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=a4+paper&Store=Sainsburys&_fcategory=Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper">Sainsbury</a> paper | <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=a4+paper&Store=Sainsburys&_fcategory=Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper&_fbrand=Sainsburys_Basics">Basics branded A4 paper</a> | <a href="https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/sol/storelocator/storelocator_landing.jsp">Store locator</a> - choose a large branch or click & collect<br />
<a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/shopping/findproducts.aspx?query=a4+paper&_fcategory=notebooks_pads_and_paper&store=Tesco">Tesco</a> paper | <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=a4+paper&Store=Tesco&_fcategory=Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper&_fbrand=Tesco_Everyday_Value">Everyday value range A4 paper</a> | <a href="https://www.tesco.com/store-locator/uk/">Store locator</a> - choose a large branch or click & collect<br />
<a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/grocery-categories/Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper_in_ASDA.html?_fbrand=ASDA_Smartprice,Logic">Asda</a>'s <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/asda-compare-prices/Stationery/Logic_500_Multi_Functional_A4_Paper_500.html">graph shows no 0.5p offers on Logic A4 paper</a> | <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/grocery-categories/Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper_in_ASDA.html?_fbrand=ASDA_Smartprice">Smartprice</a> | "Copy Paper made in Indonesia" appears in their shops sometimes, un-known to their web site or mysupermarket, in a white 1 ream pack with a black and white label. <br />
<br />
0.6p a sheet<a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/grocery-categories/Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper_in_ASDA.html?_fbrand=ASDA_Smartprice,Logic"><br />
</a>Morrison's graph shows <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=a4+paper&Store=Morrisons&_fcategory=Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper">no special offers this year on their Morrison's brand A4 paper</a> <br />
<br />
0.7p a sheet <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=paper&Store=Poundland&_fcategory=Notebooks_Pads_And_Paper">Poundland </a>- A4 pads compete better. £1 staplers and hole punchers. Ocado charge the same price for a sheet of paper. <br />
<br />
Cheap prices tend to be in bigger supermarket branches under their economy brand, displayed on a bottom shelf behind a pillar, or sometimes stacked up as a pile-high sell-cheap offer at the beginning of the school term; they're not usually at the small branches unless you have arranged some sort of click and collect deal online. The brands are Sainsbury's Basics, Tesco Everyday Value, and would be Asda Smartprice if Asda sold cheap paper. Wilko's cheapest is a grey and white packet.<br />
<br />
Supermarkets tend to take <a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/cashback-credit-cards">cashback credit cards</a>, available in individuals' names, and offering half or one percent cashback as well as a months' credit if you buy the day after direct debit from your bank account.<br />
<br />
Buying little and often allows less money to be held in the bank account, with a chance of investing spare cash in <a href="http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/compare/">P2P lending accounts</a>.<br />
<br />
0.8p <a href="https://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Browse?s=Relevance&storeId=10151&langId=110&catalogId=25051&mRR=true&c_1=1%7Ccategory_root%7CTechnology%7C33006169&c_2=2%7C33006169%7CHome%20office%7C33007724&c_3=3%7Ccat_33007724%7CPrinter%20ink,%20paper%20and%20accessories%7C33016411&c_4=4%7Ccat_33016411%7CPrinter%20paper%7C33025276&r_001=1%7CPrinter%20Paper-Paper%20type%7CMulti%20purpose%7C1">Argos</a> and <a href="http://www.ryman.co.uk/paper-printing/paper/printer?dir=asc&order=price">Ryman</a><br />
<br />
Waitrose have no A4 paper in their Essentials range except A4 lined pads at 0.5p/sheet. In James Bond style emergencies like the need for an expense claim you can buy Waitrose paper at 1.1p. Her Majasty's Stationary Office is no longer a public sector stationary supplier, so might see James Bond scratching his head in Smiths who <a href="https://www.whsmith.co.uk/dept/computing-and-electricals-printer-paper-multipurpose-paper-04x00046">no longer try to sell A4 reams online</a>, before he goes to Waitrose instead. Aldi Iceland and Lidl don't usually stock reams of A4 paper.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Cheap paper - <span style="color: red;">Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket</span> - £12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT. - Cheap A4 paper special offers - Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work - recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></blockquote><hr /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">£12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT.</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Office stationary suppliers have a stable minimum order for free delivery, listed here from July 2015. They vary their paper prices a lot over time and on different pages of the catalogue, or as a tempt-back offer for old customers, so you have to search for prices each time you order or just use supermarkets if you don't fancy searching.<br />
<br />
If you often pass a cheap supermarket, the price to beat is £12.50 or £10.41+VAT for five reams, and you'll also have to make a larger order for free delivery.<br />
<br />
If Wilko keep their £2.40 reams in stock and you are near one, then the price to beat is £12 or £10+VAT; otherwise Wilko charge £4 if you need delivery. Their prices-alongside for notebooks aren't good at 1p a page on a spiral-bound A5 notebook. It's possible to buy Silvine UK-made notebooks in packs of five for less, probably.<br />
<br />
Small cashback offers come and go over time, but there is no harm in signing-up to Topcashback, Quidco, or both from this site while you think about it.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://www.viking-direct.co.uk/">Viking Direct</a> £30+VAT | no branch | <a href="https://www.quidco.com/user/18898/2067882/">Quidco has a discount and you get another 25p off here.</a></li>
<li><a href="http://monkeyofffice.co.uk/">M</a><a href="https://www.monkeyoffice.co.uk/">onkeyoffice.co.uk</a> £30+VAT <a href="http://www.cashbackholic.co.uk"><strike>Cashback sites</strike></a></li>
<li><a href="https//www.staples.co.uk/">Staples</a> £36.00+VAT | <a href="https//www.staples.co.uk/StoreLocator.aspx">branch finder</a> | <a href="https://www.quidco.com/user/18898/2067882/">Quidco has an exlusive best discount - 25p off for using it</a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.euroffice.co.uk/">Euroffice</a> £40+VAT | no branch | <a href="https://www.quidco.com/user/18898/2067882/">Quidco</a> & Topcashback have discounts. 25p off for using Quidco.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.ukofficedirect.co.uk/">Ukofficedirect.co.uk</a> £40+VAT | same as Euroffice | <a href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/veganline">Topcashback</a> has a good <a href="http://www.cashbackholic.co.uk/cashback-rewards-UKOfficeDirect.co.uk.html">discount</a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.thegreenoffice.co.uk/">Thegreenoffice.co.uk</a> £50+VAT | no branch | same firm as <a href="http://www.deosgroup.co.uk/">deos.co.uk</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.ebuyer.com/">Ebuyer</a> £50+VAT | no branch - same as Howdens Kitchens | <a href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/veganline">Topcashback</a> is best on this one. </li>
<li><a href="https://www.makro.co.uk/">Makro</a> £50+VAT - free buyer card & ID required | <a href="https://www.makro.co.uk/locator.html">branch finder</a> | Only sell 75g paper. No cashback. The cheap paper brand is "Opportunity" in 5 ream boxes.</li>
<li>Booker £50+VAT for caterers, otherwise £200 | <a href="https://www.booker.co.uk/help/branchfinder.aspx">branch finder</a>.| Buyer card and ID required Prices not shown to non-card holders but not special. </li>
<li><a href="https://purelypaper.co.uk/">Purelypaper.co.uk</a> £75+VAT | no branch | No cashback.</li>
<li><a href="https://www.rajapack.co.uk/">Rajapack</a> £200+VAT | no branch | <a href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/veganline">Topcashback</a> gives the best cashback. </li>
<li><span class="rhsg4 a"><a href="https://officegopher.co.uk/80-gsm-a4-copier-paper-white-31176.html">OfficeGopher</a> £456.00 offer of 200 reams @ 2.28 including VAT & delivery | no branch | No cashback.</span> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.costco.co.uk/">Costco</a> £659.89 pallet offer of 320 reams @ £2.07 including VAT & delivery +5% without paid-for membership costing £15 or £20 | <a href="https://warehouses.costco.co.uk/locations/">branch finder</a> | no cash back.</li>
</ul>Searching in July 2015, none of them had an offer much cheaper than the main supermarkets for under £100; the only way to buy cheaper than the supermarket is to wait for a special offer. <br />
<br />
Searching in early October 2014 I found Poundland advertising fictional 0.3p paper with 0.75p paper on the shelves. Late October 2014 I found Staples was top of the list on a search engine. At the time their usual price was at or just under £2.50 a 500 page ream including VAT on orders of 60 reams. A special offer in their clearance section showed reams at £1.99 for a short time - maybe only shown to people who have just searched for paper. There's also an offer of something like a membership card, after which the odd offer comes in the post. Coming back in February 2015 I see prices have dropped. Cashback credit cards might offer another half percent off.<br />
<br />
A few years ago I used to use Viking, who have occasional special offers for existing customers and advertise cheap paper for new customers regularly. You may have to use a second address to and payment card to use offers like this if there isn't one for existing customers, but the existing customers' special codes used to last a few months after being printed on a mail-out, even if you had to type them into the web site rather than using the search box. </fieldset><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;">Cheap paper - Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket - <span style="color: red;">£12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT</span>. - Cheap A4 paper special offers - Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work - recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"></span></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">Cheap A4 paper special offers </span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/cashback-credit-cards">1% cashback, for personal-name amex cardholders</a> is available at some supermarkets. Some personal-name Visa and Mastercards give 0.5% cashback and nectar points can be worth a similar amount next time you order. </li>
<li>Bing and Google have the most obvious offers, aimed at new customers. <br />
Euroffice and their UKofficedirect sites have a pop-up offer for new customers on their site.<br />
</li>
<li>Most suppliers will send paper or email monthly junk mail to previous customers with occasional good prices for paper. Viking's offers for example used to have a special product number that was still valid for a few months after issue to buy paper more cheaply than the usual price. A search of their web site this 12/2015 found Item # Q2D-2047658 was 75 grammes, but if you can cope with that it's cheaper than supermarkets.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, glancing at the junk mail and binning it is distracting and takes time (as do nectar cards). There's probably a way to set-up email forwarding filters so that stationary offers go to one in-box to open only when needed,<br />
<br />
Cashback sites don't work well for a product search, so they can only be used when you have a supplier in mind and want to know if their price still applies to cashback customers, or not.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/office-supplies">http://www.imutual.co.uk/office-supplies</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.quidco.com/office/">http://www.quidco.com/office/</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/office-equipment/cashback/">http://www.topcashback.co.uk/office-equipment/cashback/</a> - no product search <br />
It would be great if you could sign-up to the bottom two from this page because they give commission and nobody has done so far - but another deserving referral agent is http://cashbackholic.co.uk/ who try to match well-known shops against any of the main cashback sites they are on. Plenty of obscure cashback sites are listed too, in case you have the patience.</li>
</ul></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Cheap paper - Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket - £12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT. - <span style="color: red;">Cheap A4 paper special offers </span>- Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work - recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></blockquote><hr /><ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work</span></span> </h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Larger organisations can buy more at once.<br />
With no experience of buying for a large organisation, I guess the following is worth a try.<br />
<br clear="ALL" /> First, printing letters to post is a service that some companies do online. Most people don't do it for one or two letters because of the hassle, but the cost of time, stamp, printing and envelope may be more manageable, if not much cheaper, when out-sourced. At the same time a few books of stamps in the office for when this grand system fails would be a good backup. I worked at a place where we had second class stamps and stamps that could make a letter up to first class - however many pence that is. So if someone has a reason in their head to use first class, they can do it easily but otherwise letters go second class.<br />
<br clear="ALL" /> Second (second paragraph not second class) some organisations expect their staff to buy stationary together as part of a big deal which is meant to get low prices, maybe by tender, from office supply companies that sell everything else as well as paper. These companies make the money back by charging £100 for a coat rack. It doesn't make sense.<br />
<br clear="ALL" /> It could be possible to get a pallet of paper from a paper mill delivered to some central point, and for staff who travel around the organisation to take a few reams with them. This would benefit a UK paper mill, paying UK tax, even if it's no cheaper than the cheapest supermarket. The rest of the stationary buying could be left to individual staff, who know what they want and could claim receipts on petty cash or get the boss to buy things for them online with a company credit card. Unfortunately our government here in the UK is not capable of releasing the trade data that would help us work-out where the nearest papermills are that make cheap A4 paper in order for people to write trade directories and customers to ask what their minimum orders are for free delivery. If anyone is reading this because they write political leaflets, please pass the suggestion on to candidates, as my letter forwarded via an MP to the Department for Business just got a brush-off reply. Maybe you can try writing a better letter via <a href="https://www.writetothem.com/">Writetothem.com</a> and see if you get a better result.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/Office%20paper%20and%20publications.pdf">http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/Office%20paper%20and%20publications.pdf</a> is a tax-funded publication suggesting that big regular customers can get paper at well under £2 a ream including VAT and probably delivery for a 200 reams at a time, which is a lot cheaper than the price I found for 200 reams on the list above. The document is vague about who the suppliers are and what their minimums are, and generally tries to promote recycled paper rather than products made by people who pay taxes to fund Wrap. It doesn't even promote products made in democratic welfare states. It promotes recycled paper. According to <a href="http://www.batesoffice.co.uk/about/harvest-office-products.html" rel="nofollow">another source</a> <i>"the carbon footprint of transportation is high, there are no recycled mills for office cut paper in the UK, the closest mill producing a recycled sheet is in Austria."</i> . So this government-funded organisation works directly against the interests of its taxpayers. I don't know if they were crass or took a bribe, but probably just crass because there are similar examples on by other blog <a href="https://planb4fashion.blogspot.co.uk/" title="government supports globalisation against its own interests via taxpayer-funded groups like ethical fashion forum">planb4fashion.blogspot.co.uk</a><a href="https://planb4fashion.blogspot.co.uk/"></a> .<br />
<br />
The document was clearly written before the recession, at thee expense of UK taxpayers, and has been maintained by ministers of all three parties. It does not promote production by UK taxpayers; it promotes the opposite. It promotes the competition. You have to wonder if the writers took a bribe, or were just gobsmackingly incompetant. Maybe ministers and special advisers thought they earn revenue from their great intellectual property exports, and didn't check civil servants' work for detail. The document is vague about web links and minimum orders, so what there is doesn't date fast. It mentions paper suppliers as Robert Horne, Dixon & Roe, Antalis, Paperback, Guilbert/Niceday, Lyreco, Office World, Fenns, Viking, Xerox Office Supplies, Banner and UK Office Direct Limited.<br />
<br />
A WRAP spokesman said: <i>“Liz Goodwin’s salary was £163,000. Her pay reflects that fact in all three years as chief executive Liz has met her objectives and WRAP is on track to meet all its business plan targets. WRAP is committed to delivering the best possible value for money and so Liz’s pay was recently benchmarked against similar jobs in both public and private sector. At WRAP’s Open Meeting Liz was widely praised for what she had achieved.”</i>As a result of UK government buyers refusing to buy UK-made paper, one of the last producers has <a href="http://www.printweek.com/print-week/news/1152827/premier-paper-group-buys-tullis-russell-advocate-brand">gone into administration by KPMG</a>. Tullis Russell was an employee-owned company based in Fife, the Prime Ministers's constituency. The situation echoes the closure of Equity Shoes in Leicester, another employee-owned company, which went bust while their MP promoted Chinese competition such as Terra Plana as Secretary of State for Business, funding London Fashion Week. There is some overlap. Defra is the ministry that funds Wrap, and Defra funded sidelines of London Fashion Week and an organisation called Ethical Fashion Forum (catchphrase: "<a badly-run="" countries="" ethical="" fashion="" from="" goods="" hat="" href="http://veganline.com/ethical-fashion-forum.htm" is="" title:="">What is Ethical Fashion?</a>") which also advised consumers not to buy british products from factories like Equity Shoes. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/planB4fashion" title="planB4fashion is a facebook page written in response to government departments that promote sweatshop products at the expense of those made in democratic welfare states">I have a facebook page and blog about this sort of thing</a>. If the salary of Liz Goodwin had gone towards either Tullis Russell or Equity Shoes, it might have helped them stay in business but honest and fair orders would have done the trick as well. I hope there is some way that UK or Scottish government can undo the damage before the machines are demolished, and promote UK buying of UK-made paper. I don't think it's likely but I hope. Meanwhile, the aftermath has to be dealt with and <a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.com/2015/08/barriers-to-startup-businesses-in-areas.html">this is a post about how to promote startup busines and employment</a> in less-likely places.<br />
<br clear="ALL" /> <a href="http://www.mill-branded-guide.paperandprint.com/mill-branded-products/millproducts.cgi">http://www.mill-branded-guide.paperandprint.com/mill-branded-products/millproducts.cgi</a> is a more specific document and could with luck contain the contact details of a UK paper mill that makes cheap A4 copier paper. It is aimed at printers. If the government has killed-off the last UK paper mill by failing to release information about which are still in business making what, and by promoting the competition, then you could try making your own paper by setting-up a factory. This is a US video about the process.<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kt5dHMBvYM" title="How Paper is Made | The Discovery Channel">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kt5dHMBvYM</a><br />
<br />
Printers may be able to print thousands or tens of thousands of sheets cheaper than the cost of buying ink and paper at home. Not much less. Possibly a bit more, but it saves a lot of work and gets their expertise in judging what kind of ink will work on what kind of paper if you use both sides. I discover this from searching online for A5 or A4 quotes on a constituency print-run of 50,000.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Cheap paper - Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket - £12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT. - Cheap A4 paper special offers - <span style="color: red;">Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work</span> - recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free </span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>That's because people are embarassed to keep single sided sheets to print on the back. They should be proud. Estate agents sometimes send single-side sheets, as do people who want to invest your money for 0.1% a year while offering loans at only 2% a month. Lots of these sheets are blank on the back and capable or being re-used. If you have a basic roller-like inkjet printer, you can even save pages that have got half a sheet blank and use them for addresses.</fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;">Cheap paper - Cheap 80gsm A4 paper for UK home users on MySupermarket - £12.50 paper is the price to beat @ £2.50 x 5, or £10.41 + VAT. - Cheap A4 paper special offers - Cheap paper for large organisations, and how DEFRA puts people out of work - <span style="color: red;">recycled paper looks expensive but some of it is free</span></span></blockquote><hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">parcel tape</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Just noticed an offer on clearancexl of 6 x 66m = 396m @ £4 = 1p a meter. Unfortunately there's at least a £5 or £6 delivery charge which can also include some very cheap potatoes, near-to-use-by-date tins and whatever else takes your fancy.<br />
<br />
Wilko stay-low price brown parcel tape is 55m @ 55p = 1p a meter. In fact it says "60m approx" so you might be lucky, or you might find there's none in stock. It is sold as "in store only" and "check availability". A review says it can loose its grip an it is thin.<br />
<br />
Wilko transparent parcel tape is 100/66 pence a meter, but the stay-low priced<br />
19mm wide type is 100 / (4 x 33) or <span class="cwcot" id="cwos">0.0075p a meter:</span></fieldset></blockquote><br />
<hr align="LEFT>
other posts:<br />
<a href=" atom.xml="" http:="" redirect="false&start-index=1&max-results=500" veg-buildlog.blogspot.com="" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">other blog posts on one page</a> from John Robertson at <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="nonleather vegan shoes boots belts and jackets made in the UK">Veganline.com for vegan boots shoes and belts online</a></div><br />
<a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.com/2015/07/httpwwwindependentcouknewsukpoliticswat.html">By the way I have just done a blog post about Lord Sewell, who seems to have done nothing wrong except to admit that his colleagues do F-all</a> </div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-3859768818331066322015-07-19T14:41:00.007+01:002020-01-23T11:54:56.319+00:00choosing a UK business bank account<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<head> <link href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html" rel="canonical"></link> </head> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html"> </a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
Choosing a UK business bank account <span style="color: red;"><this page</span><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html</a><br />
Free, Fast and Pretty: shopping cart software for ecommerce <links back<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html</a><br />
Simple Bookkeeping and Account Agregators<span style="color: red;"> </span><links back<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html</a><br />
Free Online Bookkeeping Software for Simple Accounts <links back<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html</a> <br />
Boring Economics is Interesting - long rambling post about being a UK economics student during the 1980s recession - no link back<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="studying an economics degree course during the 1980s recession, and a lot of the time learning nothing about it">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Choosing a UK business bank account - introduction</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<i>"How do I choose a bank account for a <a href="http://fantasyequitycrowdfunding.blogspot.co.uk/">tech startup</a> in East London? I have no money." </i>This question came-up somewhere and I had a go at answering: A couple of other answers were <i>"<a href="http://business-reporter.co.uk/2014/10/28/banks-refusing-to-fund-rival-tech-startups/">I have been refused</a>"</i>. Maybe that refusal helps both sides. </fieldset>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> Do you need funding for assets? - Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not - Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes. - Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span></blockquote>
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"> </span></span> </span></span></span></span></span><br />
<fieldset>
<br />
You've read the news. You know the name <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Goodwin">Fred Goodwin</a>. If you didn't work for him directly, selling dodgy banking products to avoid being sacked, you worked for him indirectly because your taxes bail-out his creations. Maybe you have dealt with firms that are crippled by dodgy banking products sold by the likes of Goodwin. Nobody needs the trouble of doing business with a UK bank.<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><br />
<span class="qlink_container"><a class="external_link" href="http://p2pmoney.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><br />
P2Pmoney.co.uk</a></span> has some better ideas for business borrowing. The one they like to promote is for established businesses on <a href="http://www.p2pmoney.co.uk/compare/business.htm">P2Pmoney.co.uk/compare/business.htm</a> - not that it is a good one for lenders.</span><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><br />
<br />
I've read that <a href="https://www.handelsbanken.co.uk/">Handelsbanken.co.uk</a> and <a href="http://www.aldermore.co.uk/" target="_blank">Aldermore.co.uk</a> banks are un-typical if you really must get an overdraft, but working from home and spending nothing is a cheaper option. Handelsbanken are staff-owned, and use HSBC for their back-end software so <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">the usual software could make sense of their statements for your accounts</a>. The new <a href="https://www.oaknorth.com/">Oaknorth Bank</a> hope to lend to smaller businesses too.</span></span></span><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><br />
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value">Business funding without funding</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></h4>
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value">Better still, keep a part-time day job until some money comes-in. <br />
<br />
If the business is a good one, money will come-in to re-invest and if not, not; a business plan may disagree but there is no need to agonise or pay money for more business plans.</span></span></span> <br />
<br />
Porridge oats are <a href="http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesco-price-comparison/Porridge_And_Muesli/Tesco_Scottish_Porridge_Oats_1Kg.html">under a pound a kilo</a> as is pasta and some well-known root vegetables. If your new-found business partners are not amused at an offer to spli bulk packs of vegetables from Iceland, maybe they are not good at business. Unless they have some knowledge of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_brands_in_the_United_Kingdom">value brands</a> - that's another test.<br />
<br />
If you need to cover your own living costs while the business is small, you could try moving somewhere <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23234033">cheaper than Shoreditch</a> like Ayreshire, County Durham, Bolton or Gwent where you will also find more available staff, but not probably not a day-job unless it is something you can do remotely. </span></span></span></span></span><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgad8tpBVuY_iw-MemysVItKx1DyI7NtP7G94OJiWPJU_DM_RsaGgnzct0QcvTRezPKbX28cCbiZmm4wyEBu5O6pF7QDwkLRZo88VAPxihNO20jKueuXswoVlk30bOJ5p6vNs6sFZoUEIqA/s1600/hair.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="hair clippers" border="0" data-original-height="485" data-original-width="161" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgad8tpBVuY_iw-MemysVItKx1DyI7NtP7G94OJiWPJU_DM_RsaGgnzct0QcvTRezPKbX28cCbiZmm4wyEBu5O6pF7QDwkLRZo88VAPxihNO20jKueuXswoVlk30bOJ5p6vNs6sFZoUEIqA/s320/hair.jpg" title="" width="106" /></a></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
You could look-out for hair clippers like the picture on the right, and save the cost of haircuts. They come with a few clip-on things to cut at lengths an eighth of an inch apart, and you can get extra ones to cut up to an inch, which is called a number eight.<br />
<br />
You could look at builders and copy their style of clothes as well - some of them wear quick-dry clothes that dry on a hanger after washing in the sink.<br />
<br />
If your startup has anything to do with manufacturing, it would be good to be near the factories in your trade and save having to own loads of stock while it's on the boat from China. If it needs graduates in accountancy or computer science, you could experiment with Unistats to find clues about the areas with the cheapest graduate accountants or computer scientists. For accountants the areas are Colerane and Hull. If your business plans to sell stretch-fabric clothes, there is a factory in Gwent that makes them, in a postcode where Zoopla quotes 20% of the range <a href="https://www.zoopla.co.uk/market/np24/?q=NP24">housing sales under £50,000 and £500 a month an average rental price.</a> There is a list of factories like that on the new <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/" title="do a control+F for Gwent or scroll to the wholesale made to order heading">PantstoPoverty.org.uk</a> web site. And in some postcodes it's worth trying to understand obscure government grants which don't apply in most areas and tend to be very specific. <a href="http://www.ukassistedareasmap.com/ieindex.html">There is a map of postcodes in assisted areas</a>.<br />
<br />
If your business plan says <i>"<a href="http://www.drapersonline.com/news/the-idle-man-fails-to-secure-dragons-den-funding/5077218.article" title="The Idle Man fails to secure Dragons' Den funding 20 July 2015 | By Tara Hounslea | from a chached version of Drapers Record The founder of contemporary menswear etailer The Idle Man appeared on BBC Two’s Dragons’ Den last night in the hopes of securing funding for the site to expand and develop its own-brand offer. Chief executive Oliver Tezcan was seeking £200,000 investment for 5.5% of the business. Tezcan said the company is forecasting sales this year of £2.2m and is targeting a £25m valuation at the end of three years. New Dragon Touker Suleyman, owner of menswear retailer Hawes & Curtis and womenswear brand Ghost, raised questions on the £25m valuation and the £950,000 the company has lost since it began trading last year. But fellow new Dragon Nick Jenkins, founder of greetings card etailer Moonpig.com, said his company lost a similar amount in its first year. It emerged that Tezcan was seeking the investment from the Dragons as part of a wider funding round, so was unable to negotiate on the level of equity they would receive. Suleyman offered the full amount of £200,000 for a 60% stake, which Tezcan could not accept due to the other investors in the company. He left empty-handed. Related Articles The Idle Man raises £1.25m following Dragons’ Den appearance">spend a million pounds mainly on advertising a brand</a> so we can <a href="http://theidleman.com/shop/clothing/t-shirts.html" rel="nofollow" title="The Idle Man's Magento web shop">sell our £30 T shirts before the competition"</a></i>, ask yourself: wouldn't people prefer to buy cheaper for lack of a million pound debt at the supplier? And when tech-hub startups move to Shoreditch they just put-up property prices and discourage the shoe wholesalers and bag factories that still survive there. If you have to mo<i>v</i>e there, maybe you should sell shoes and bags from the wholesalers and factories in Shoreditch alongside your tech startup. The wholesalers sell blingey Italian shoes along Shoreditch high street.<a href="http://makeitbritish.co.uk/uk-manufacturing-2/10-steps-success-working-uk-manufacturer/#more-13777">This guide to buying looks a bit complicated</a> but everyone has their own style; you have to do a lot of work finding a supplier, and find out what they want to make in terms of what designs they are used to churning-out on their machines, what their minimums are for free set-up or free delivery, and what's a typical lead time. There was a childrens-wear sewing factory in Bentley Road off Balls Pond Road for example. They had no web site and were had to track-down, but if you wanted the quantities and products the wanted to make, they'd probably work-out a price and save you importing a container-load from China with a 3-month lead time. I think they were called Figgins and have moved to Essex; I don't know if they still want orders. Jumping back to tech startups, it might be cheaper to move to the welsh valleys or the north east for cheap housing when you go full-time, so you have lower costs and you don't crowd-out the firms already operating in Shoreditch.<br />
<br />
If you want a business loan for a small amount like £3,000, now that you have sourced your products from the UK and kept your day job part-time, you might try the loans available to lure the unwary into debt. There are lots of them. Cash transfer credit card offers are a good search, because balance transfer cards only allow you to transfer debt from another credit card, and it usually costs something like 2.4% via Paypal to take that credit limit out of the credit card account. Exceptions have cropped-up in the past, called "mule cards" apparently, but not very often as the Smiths lyric says.<br />
<br />
Credit cards for personal use try to make themselves hard to use for business. The statement data might be down-load-able to an accounts programme, but it will build-up a debt between the statement date and the date of the direct debt, and the columns will be presented in a bamboozling way. Some kind of accounts software is probably necessary to fight back. Or maybe a system of using two credit cards - one for the first two weeks of the month, paid-off in week four, and another for the second two weeks of the month, paid-off in week two. This is so much easier to write than to do in practice that I suggest software to keep track with the other idea as a sideline.<br />
<br />
Oh, an afterthought about cheap eating. It has to be fairly quick as well, if you are earning and possibly doing two jobs, so things like wholesale markets and grow-your-own don't really help, but there is a <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/04/just-invested-few-tenners-in-primestox.html">list of some cheap food shops at the end of another post about selling surplus food</a>.</span></span></span></span></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> Do you need funding for assets? - Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not - Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes. - Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
</blockquote>
<hr align="left" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Do you need funding for assets?</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;"> </span> <br />
<fieldset>
<a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Racine_high-speed_steam_engine_%28New_Catechism_of_the_Steam_Engine,_1904%29.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="victorian machine sketched in black and white" border="0" height="248" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Racine_high-speed_steam_engine_%28New_Catechism_of_the_Steam_Engine,_1904%29.jpg" title="This is a picture of an asset" width="400" /></a><span style="font-weight: normal;">This is an asset. You can see that it has scrap value and a possibly higher value as a second-hand machine, minus high transport costs and depending on the right market for sale at short notice. Like cars, but much more awkward with a narrower market and harder to move.<br />
<br />
If value can be demonstrated with photos and links to sites where such machines are traded, there is a good case to persuade people on a P2P funding site to finance your asset. Thinking of which, you should also buy your machines at the same places where your receiver would sell them, so you don't have to borrow so much money. This is a big deal and everyone has their own style.</span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;">Recession-people agonise for days and months about how to get things for next to nothing. They quite enjoy it, but it takes away time from other bits of the work. The process helps them understand the market for things relevant to their business, like the cost of repairs.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;">Boom people save days and months by buying things new on credit and earn the money back in time saved, or not, and they somehow expect creditors to go-along with this one-way bet in which everybody wins if things go well and the creditor looses if things go badly. Boom people tend to think that they have some niche market like gastro-pub or super-soft matrass which allows an implausible mark-up.</span></li>
</ul>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Sometimes conditions make recession people or boom people feel that they made the right decision, but I think the decision is bred-in from life experience and upbringing; reality doesn't change it and I don't know if boom people or recession people do better at business. You tend to find boom people on Crowdcube or Seedrs asking for another funding round; you tend not to find recession people; they are hidden at home or in cheap workspace. There's an article about some <a href="http://www.businesszone.co.uk/decide/marketing/how-bruno-bootstrapped-its-product-business" title="Francois Badenhorst, writing in BusinessZone.co.uk 8th Jun 2017">matress manufacturers who are just about in the middle</a> - half way between recession people and boom people - and they seem to do OK. On the gross side, a company called Eve charges £500 per matrass, mainly for advertising on borrowed money. Another mattress manufacturer can sell a retail double for £50 £60 or £70 including VAT, and an ebay search for new double "<a href="https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=mattress&_sop=15&LH_ItemCondition=3&_dcat=131588&_blrs=spell_check&_osacat=0&Size=4FT6%2520Double&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmattress+made+in.TRS0&_nkw=mattress+made+in&_sacat=0">matress made in</a>" comes-up with similar prices.<br />
<br />
One piece of evidence is the number of stories of refugees doing well in business, often in Hackney or Leicester or inner-city areas and often by knowing how to do something in a smaller workshop, for smaller batch-sizes, and on a lower pay-scale than is normal in more established companies. Hugenots and Jews set the tradition. If you can find a Syrian refugee with factory experience making cotton or whatever else they do on Syria, you might be on to something. In any case, the workshop that can make things on a smaller scale than Ford or NASSA is quite likely in an inner city. Somewhere that council would like to demolish for car-parking and tech hubs, and move to an industrial estate a bus-ride away outside the ring road.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;">Stock</span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Making-it-up-as-you-go-along is a phrase we learn as children, and learn again in business to avoid the cost of stock finance.<br />
<br />
When making objects, it's good to be able to make top-ups and trials on the kitchen table while having a more efficient factory make batches of what sells. That keeps the factory happier and your stock cheaper to maintain, because you don't have a load of extreme sizes of a piece of clothing, hanging around, costing you credit. Buying from a wholesaler could be another option. Restaurant kitchens have intricate breakdowns of what is freezable or food, what is prepared before people order, and what is mixed-together and cooked on the day after the orders come-in, or maybe put on a buffet where people can see what's left as the food runs-out.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Rent</span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> If you can't find a workshop to sell anything at all like what you want, and still need an asset, then rent could be a problem as well.</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"> Ideally, you live somewhere with spare space like a farm or a place with a garage you can clear for your asset. This is unlikely in Shoreditch so there comes a point when your mum / flatmate / landlord / hostel / tent becomes full of the assets needed for heavy industry. <br />
<br />
You could google terms like "hackerspace" and "makerlab" looking for people who will let you store your asset or let you use theirs. Hackney is a hotbed for this. I have not joined any of these but can add a few early search results - http://openworkshopnetwork.com - http://www.hackspace.org.uk/ - https://www.nesta.org.uk/sites/default/files/open_dataset_of_uk_makerspaces_users_guide.pdf - <br />
https://maps.london.gov.uk/workspaces/<br />
<br />
You could, a last resort, you could try renting the cheapest space on Estates Gazette near Shoreditch, but that raises the problem of commuting to the darn place or leaving it empty when not needed, and of dealing with landlords. From a very little bit of experience, I think London landlords will not get out of bed to pay-in a cheque for under £1,000 a month and some of them put every concievable unfair clause into the lease so you need to find a cheap virtual lawyer to check and try to get those clauses taken-out of the contract before you sign.</span></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <span style="color: red;">Repairs</span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> If you have time, you should find out as much as you can about servicing the machines you have bought on ebay or apex auctions or for-sale co uk or whatever site. Otherwise you are asking lenders to fund a dealers' markup, which can't be sold if things go wrong. It's like something lost down the drain.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">IT and coms costs</span></span></h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"> The lobbeys of concert halls and libraries are full, stuffed with people using free wifi. Whoever they are and whatever they are doing, some of them might be saving startup costs. On which point, Pete Foreman's <a href="https://payg.pythonanywhere.com/">PAYG tariffs guide</a></span></span></span></span> is the best link on an otherwise rather vague page on this same blog about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-such-thing-as-free-phone.html">cheap used phones and pay as you go chips</a>, which are another communications cost. The pay-as-you-go site sometimes lists options for a little free data roaming as well as low-tariff sim cards. <br />
It lists deals that change every year or two as well as more stable ones which I guess are the ones directly from Three or O2 classic.<br />
<br />
While thinking, you should <a href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/veganline">sign-up with a free cashback site in case it happens to have cashback on something you would have bought anyway</a>.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><span style="color: red;">A brand for increasing the price of T shirts</span></span></span></span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"> If your asset is something like <i>"a brand for increasing the price of T shirts"</i>, then it costs nothing to dream-up and might earn nothing if sold fast. This is why people tend to work in trades and professions and intellectual property; they hope to become self-employed without massive amounts of capital, rent, or staff, by living on their wits; they should not need funding. They should be able to do other things like doing a part-time day job and maybe sharing customers with others in the same position (I am going from T shirts to things like law and accountancy here but there is probably an equivalent for T shirts).<br />
<br />
There was a time when a brand like Clarks Shoes was worth more than expected and could be even more valuable if separated from expensive factories in the UK. That was a nieve time, and I hope that consumers are more savvy to the fact that the brand feels nice to wear because staff are paid a UK wage; another brand on a UK-made shoe should sell almost as well, while the famous brand on a Chinese shoe should sell much worse. I hope that's where the market is heading.</span></span></span></span></fieldset>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> <span style="color: red;">Do you need funding for assets?</span> - Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not - Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes. - Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span></blockquote>
<h3>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business name on a bank account? - maybe not.</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> </span> <br />
<fieldset>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">I run an <a href="http://veganline.com/" target="_blank">online shop selling nonleather footwear</a> with a separate but personal-name account. A lot of bitcoin brokers do the same. I asked Bittylicious, the web site that works with bitcoin brokers, what personal accounts they recommended and was told that Santander is a favourite. My personal account is at another bank again, so there's no need to trouble one bank with a request for two similar but separate accounts. Separate bank accounts are required by common sense and minimum legal standards of tax reporting. I've never found banking a problem. If you set-up a face-to-face stall, then cash payments might be a problem and cheap cash sorting machines make it easier to bag and pay-in. Metrobank offers use of their machines free. If you want an account for vanishingly rare cheques made-out to your business name, then maybe someone with a business bank account can ask their bank to call it "trading as... x y and z" on the software. Once a customer has made the decision to pay them so-much-a-month, banks are less fussy about what's written on the name of the account. They might even write "trading as... x y and z" on the software title of your personal account, but their desire to get money for nothing might prevent them doing that and even prompt them to close your personal account.<br />
<br />
If your existing account allows you do download a spreadsheet of a years' transactions in midata format, that can be used to make account comparison web sites more accurate. TSB and Halifax came at the top of my lists, but Halifax prove a bit awkward for the overseas spending card I have with them so that leaves TSB. </span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-midata-vision-of-consumer-empowerment">https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-midata-vision-of-consumer-empowerment</a> has the background and <a href="https://money.gocompare.com/currentaccounts/midata#/">https://money.gocompare.com/currentaccounts/midata#/</a> does the comparison.<br />
<br />
If you limit your liability with a registered company, it's more usual to have a company account. You want people to know what they are dealing-with and that liablity is limited, just as they do. There is a work-around. Say your name is J Blogs (if that is your name - I don't know - but you don't have to say it aloud) you could have a company called J Blogs Ltd. That might help make things look cool to everyone, if you are using an account called "J Blogs". Maybe the bank will pay in cheques to "J Blogs" without the "Ltd", or more likely nobody will ever send you a cheque.<br />
<br />
The VAT system requires a bank account that any rebates can be paid-in to. <i>"This must be an account held in the UK and the account name must match the business name you are registering with VAT"</i>, according to the guidance notes to the VAT1 registration form, on un-known authority and without detail about the closeness of "match". I emailed to ask, and got a helpful phone call a week later: <i>"I can't say any more than what's in the handbook ... if we have to pay a company, then the bank account has to match the company name, and it's a company account then it would have 'ltd' as part of the name of the account".</i> I guess that means it's worth a try calling a company J Blogs with a bank account called J Blogs. If there is an insurmountable problem worth more than the cost of a business bank account, then you can open one. Maybe in the future there will be a free business bank account available somewhere.<br />
<br />
You might expect a law that the account must be in a company name because there's law about <span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span class="inline_editor_value"><a href="http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/information-required-on-websites-emails-and-faxes">letters emails and faxes</a>, but not the name of the bank account.</span></span></span> <a href="http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/no-bank-account-limited-company#comment-317512">People here seem to have researched the subject and think the same</a>. They and the staff of Companies House are sure that any law would be in the Companies Act, which you'd want to look at if you set-up a company. I think there are more general laws about not decieving people, and advisers like this <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160519182840/http://www.brighton-accountants.com:80/blog/company-bank-account/">accountant in brighton</a> list some things to be guard against, somehow, if you look like the same thing as the limited company.<br />
1) Limited liability, maybe if a supplier doesn't update invoice information and calls you by the non-limited name. Then they can try to argue that they didn't know you were limited.<br />
2) Requests for extra information during a tax inspection of an inspector thinks it worth checking your personal accounts as well.<br />
3) Decisions about the rate of tax, if for some reason the company pays a lower tax than you do and HMRC think there's a false distinction.<br />
<br />
I don't know enough about tax to know what that situation would be, and the accountant's advice is to keep things simple-looking rather than have an account with "ltd" in the name in all cases.<br />
<br />
There's also a point made about grabbing money out of the account which gets interpreted later as something unexpected - a director's loan for example - which I don't understand, and applies whatever bank account you have.</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;"><b>Update mid 2018 - Starling Bank now offer free accounts in a business name to smaller limited companies - I think the limit is something like ten staff and one director. The account looks as though it works on IoS and Android but probably not Windows. There is a free opening offer to other limited companies. Starling Bank works on MoneyDashboard for automatic categorising of expenses, although that program is aimed at private customers and doesn't do anything quite the way you want for business; there are probably accounts programs that work with Starling too. Update mid 2017: Tide.co, <a href="https://transferwise.com/u/johnr243">Transferwise</a> Borderless Bank Account, Bunq for Eurozone residents, and the more expensive Fire.com that has a £100 setup fee. Coconut hope to have accounts for limited companies in the future, after starting on freelancers.</b></span></span></b></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><b><a href="https://www.tide.co/">Tide.co</a></b> costs 20p for most transactions in or out and includes a mastercard that can be used without charge. BACS inbound payments are a free exception, apparently, but as you have no control over whether banks use BACS or Fa</span><span style="font-weight: normal;">ster Payments, that's not much help to know. Bank transfers to other currencies aren't yet available this July 2017, although rival Fire.com does offer them.<br />
<br />
There is a discussion on their comments page about when they might be able to accept HMRC refund payments such as VAT or whether there is any way of paying them in. <a href="https://www.tide.co/community/t/hrmc-vat-payments-rejecting-tide-card/2338">The answer is yes</a>.<br />
<br />
Just to be different, you share part of their Barclays bank account rather than having your own, but I imagine that you can pay-in cheques in your company name, and their logon page has a little bit of book-keeping software to categorise transactions built-in, so that's a good thing.</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><b><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;"><b><a href="https://transferwise.com/u/johnr243">Transferwise</a></b></span></span></b> <br />
Allows payments into its borderless bank account, but there is backlog of applicants and id-checking is slow. If you have a personal account and want to register again as a director of a business in the business name, the process stops on screen; the "save" button doesn't work. If another director does it, then the application goes OK if done from another browser.<br />
<br />
If you just need a business-name bank account for VAT refunds, maybe you could g</span><br />
When I first tried to sign-up it said<br />
<h5 class="m-y-2 p-b-2 ng-binding">
Your GBP details</h5>
<dl class="bank-detail col-xs-12 ng-scope">
<dt class="ng-binding">Account Number</dt>
<dd class="property-value ng-binding">1000xxxx</dd></dl>
<dl class="bank-detail col-xs-12 ng-scope">
<dt class="ng-binding">UK Sort Code</dt>
<dd class="property-value ng-binding">23-xx-xx</dd></dl>
<dl class="bank-detail col-xs-12 ng-scope">
<dt class="ng-binding">Account Holder</dt>
<dd class="property-value ng-binding">TW/J ROBERTSON</dd></dl>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">Transferwise also has some odd terms in its agreement for European Economic Area applicans. None of these may use the bank account too obviously,<br />
<br />
1.3</span><br />
<ul>
<li>(a) charities (unless they are established in Canada, European Economic Area (“EEA”), Switzerland, US or New Zealand);</li>
<li>(b) <span style="color: #cc0000;">unregistered UK charities</span>; or</li>
<li>(c) <span style="color: #cc0000;">trusts</span> (unless they are established in Canada, EEA or Switzerland).</li>
</ul>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">1.4 <span style="color: #cc0000;">banary options, bitcoin and alternative currencies ... seeds and plants</span>.</span><br />
1.5 You may only use your TransferWise Account Number (as we provided to you) to receive funds into your TransferWise Account for the following purposes:<br />
<ul>
<li>(a) Receiving your own <span style="color: #38761d;">salary and/or wages</span>;</li>
<li>(b) Receiving payouts from <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">e-commerce and freelancer platforms</span></span>;</li>
<li>(c) Receiving payments from family, friends or other <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #6aa84f;">people you know</span> </span>for personal purposes; or</li>
<li>(d) Receiving payments from your <span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: #38761d;">clients and other third parties for the purpose of business payments</span>.</span></li>
</ul>
1.6 You shall not use your TransferWise Account for the following purposes:<br />
<ul>
<li>(a) receiving payouts or withdrawals from <span style="color: #cc0000;">electronic money platforms/services/providers</span>;</li>
<li>(b) receiving payouts from <span style="color: #cc0000;">short term lenders</span>; or</li>
<li>(c) setting up <span style="color: #cc0000;">direct debits</span> on your TransferWise Account.</li>
</ul>
<span style="font-weight: normal;">The "Can I pay by card?" page says yes for 1.7% on a "business card", 0.3% on other sterling visa and mastercard, and 0% for debit cards. Similar slightly higher rates for euro.<br />
<br />
The pricing page mentions a 50p charge for transferring money to a UK bank account, or .6€ or US$1.30. Inbound payments are the same unless made by debit card by the look of it. The page urls this summer 2017 are<br />
https://transferwise.com/borderless-account/<br />
https://transferwise.com/terms-and-conditions<br />
https://transferwise.com/help/topics/99/questions/2736136/borderless-account-pricing-limits<br />
...but I hope you will use </span><b><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;"><b><a href="https://transferwise.com/u/johnr243">Transferwise</a></b></span></span></b><span style="font-weight: normal;"> to sign-up for the usual reasons.</span><br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.bankingtech.com/570702/uk-challenger-banks-whos-who-and-whats-their-tech/ is a list. You'd think that someone could do it on the cheap or take-over part of a bank that's pulling out of the market, like Airdriesavingsbank.com, but no. (Airdre tried to offer a bundle of face to face services to a shrinking, aging customer base near Airdrie in Scotland. They required new customers to come to Airdrie for a face to face interview. They were last heard-of promising a merger with TSB after a marathon history as an independent bank after they lost the will to live a year or so ago). </span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
A glance at fees this August 2017 suggests £1.50 per withdrawal but generally pretty cheap and geared to currency transfer, and accepting payments from overseas bank accounts. I didn't get to the bit about debit cards but there seems to be one.</span><br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://www.bunq.com/en/business">https://www.bunq.com/en/business</a> offer free eurozone personal bank accounts by the look of it, to residents of the European Union, and €12 a year company accounts in Austria Germany and the Netherlands this July 2017.. <br />
Business customers have to meet some conditions on here:<br />
https://together.bunq.com/topic/who-can-use-bunq : "...</span><br />
- You are an authorised representative of the company. <br />
- You have a personal bunq account <br />
- <span style="color: #38761d;">You have an active registration number from the Chamber of Commerce in The Netherlands, a Handelregisternummer in Germany or a Firmenbucheintragung in Austria. </span><br />
- Less than 50% of the entity gross income consists of passive income. "<br />
https://together.bunq.com/topic/how-do-i-open-a-business-account-with-bunq_1<br />
" We also assess companies based on the risk profile, and can thus decide whether or not a company can open a business account based on certain characteristics (activities, shareholders, etc.). "<br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><br />
https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk business instant access deposit account<br />
£5 a cheque but free online banking. So if you needed a cheque, which is unlikely, you could transfer money some other private account that offers a cheque book. The spec. is a long piece of stuff that reads like the script of a childrens' TV program and doesn't get to the nitty-gritty. Or maybe something from a housing association. Does online banking include online payments to suppliers, or just something that "deposit account" implies, like transfer to another metrobank account? Could they change it at a whim with a bit of annoying language? You'd have to ask them, but the account could be good. It also pays just enough interest to cause extra book-keeping without being enough to buy a cup of tea to drink while you are doing the books.<br />
<br />
https://moneyfacts.co.uk/business/business-prepaid-cards/ includes cashplus, which sells itself as an alternative to a business bank account, able to work in a company name for invoices and mastercard payments or tax rebates, so long as you don't need to pay-in a paper cheque. It comes-up on the same searches as Tide.co and Transferwise Borderless Bank account. The fee turns out to be "</span>Card issue fee £69.00" in very small print on the back of the online statement, with a footnote "payable annually therafter".</blockquote>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <span class="qlink_container"><a class="external_link" data-tooltip="attached" href="http://bba.moneyfacts.co.uk/" target="_blank" title="free business bank accounts for startups - Brititish Bankers Association list">Business Account Finder - British Bankers Association</a></span> is the link for comparing accounts in a business name. There used to be some "free forever" ones at RBS, Santander and HBOS, but after reading <a href="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4676803" target="_blank">the first 21 pages of a moneysavingexpert thread I see that each bank withdrew their offer and they now charge £5.50-£7.50ish a month</a>, sometimes with free extra automated transactions if you don't use any manual ones. Business Account Finder does not sort accounts for the cheapest standing charge, so you have to look at every single entry to find a free one and then check the bank's web site to see if the thing is still free. <br />
<br />
I have some hopes of an online-only Metrobank account but haven't checked yet. <br />
<br />
One user on moneysavingexpert suggested Cumberland Building Society's Business Bank Account - at the time they had a free offer to locals. There is still a free offer for schools on their web site, otherwise <strike>a calculator to work out monthly charges</strike> charging options for cash or electronic businesses with slightly different charges plus five or three pounds a month.<i> "</i></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><i><span id="appTypeMsg">If you are looking to discuss a current account outside of the Society’s operating area, please call our Customer Service Team on 01228 403141"</span></i>. <br />
<br />
Another money saving expert <a href="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4676803&page=3#59" target="_blank">suggested</a> Carter Allen who "<a href="http://www.contractoruk.com/money/free_business_bank_account.html" target="_blank">traditionally have offered free banking to IT contractors, however you would now need to be recommeneded by an intermediary</a>". A third mentioned ICCI who have a business account that seems to have no monthly fees but is geared to import / export companies and doesn't have much clarity attached about whether someone like a plumber in the UK can use it. There is a long PDF application form that asks for a solicitor or accountant to witness one or two things, and asks your existing turnover in thousands. It also asks you to repeat various names as directors, people of significant financial control, and so-on. All on a form that converts numbers into currency by mistake. I decided after a while that this free bank account wasn't available to me, but you may have better luck.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Company Formation</span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"></span><br />
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> If your business registers as a limited company, there is a list of company formation agents that are sometimes cheaper than Companies House's own £13 charge and sometimes have cashback offers at banks. http://www.planwriter.co.uk/company-formation-agent.php has one or two, that turn-out not to exist any more on search engines, but if you search every now and then for a day or two then good offers come-up on the bing and google ads. If you search Companies House web pages for "</span><a href="http://company%20formation%20agents%20and%20secretarial%20agents/">company formation agents and secretarial agents</a>", they have a full list of people hooked-up to their software. The most expensive was over £500; no cheaper ones emerged. If you have time to shop around, a better use of it is to use bing and google for a few minutes a day over a day or two. After a while, offers appear in the paid-for ads - my cheapest turned up on Bing, quoting £5 at The Formations Company.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;">Bundled legal insurance and business banking with Co-Op and FSB</span></span></h4>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> If your business is large enough to employ staff, it might benefit from the bundle of services including a Co-Op business bank account (usually £5 a month after the first 18 months) from Federation of Small Businesses, who have a minimum charge that rises with turnover. You have to ring them to find out the charge. <a href="http://www.businessbankinginsight.co.uk/" title="Business Banking Insight">This bunch called Business Banking Insight phoned to do a business banking user survey</a>, which didn't quite fit reality because if you have an own-name account and don't use business banking services, it's hard to rate your business banking services out of ten. People who actively chose their business bank and use it tend to give high scores. Whores bank is top of the list.</span></fieldset>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> Do you need funding for assets? - <span style="color: red;">Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not</span> - Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes. - Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span></blockquote>
<hr align="left" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="color: red;"></span></span></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Do you want book-keeping aids tagging categories like costs & sales to pay tax? Yes.</span><span style="color: red; font-size: x-large;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"> </span></span></span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">Online accounts software probably appeals to a low-budget tech startup more. It's easier to share with an accountant if you need to pay for help, or with colleagues if you aren't renting an office or working near each other. This link is to a separate post, just about free online accounts software. Isn't that good?</a></span></span><br />
<br />
Thanks for paying tax. You help pay for my government services.<br />
The bank statement is the most accurate and automated book-keeping aid for tax payers.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-tax-cash-basis">https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-tax-cash-basis</a> suits small business<br />
<br />
If your turnover crosses the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-registration-thresholds">gov.uk/vat-registration-thresholds</a> you have to do<br />
<a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping">https://www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping</a></span><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><br />
<br />
You need to download the bank statement each month (1507.xls as a file name for month seven in 2015 for example) and tag each line to a category before you forget what that mystery paypal payment was.<br />
<br />
Bank software often downloads bank statements in particular flavours of an un-documented format called .qif - <span class="qlink_container"><a class="external_link" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicken_Interchange_Format" target="_blank">Quicken Interchange Format</a></span> - which is best avoided. Download a file in every other available format in case one such as .pdf or .csv has detail which another lacks.<br />
<br />
You also need one credit card per type of transaction paid with a credit card, such as one credit card for delivery costs and one for travel. Otherwise you need to account for each line of the credit card statements as well, and how they interact with the bank statement, which is fiddly work for no benefit. Look on moneysavingexpert for cashback visa and mastercards in personal names that might give you .5% cashback and up to one months' credit. These need have nothing to do with the business bank account except being set to withdraw the full balance from it each month by direct debit. If you try to include their statements in your accounting systems you'll discover gotchas to discourage business use, like the direct debit day being different from the statement day, but if you keep one card per type of transaction such as one for travel and one for postage, you don't need to worry so much about their statements.<br />
<br />
Barclays private accounts do allow some categorization on their online bank statements. Co-op / Smile used to be hard to download; you needed to cut and paste or trust waveaps to do it for you (see below) but most accounts now let you download a .csv file each month.<br />
<br />
Talking of accounting, a free spreadsheet for keeping track of each line of account is useful.<br />
Different software and different accounts programs go together better or worse.<br />
Specialised ones will recognise regular transactions. Extra-good ones will track enough for you to do a VAT return, which I've never done. There are <a href="http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/best-free-accounting-software-8-programs-we-recommend-1136684">free ones for your hard disc</a> <a href="http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/best-free-accounting-software-8-programs-we-recommend-1136684">here</a> and <a href="http://www.freebyte.com/free_accounting_software/">there</a>. I once tried <a href="http://www.mechcad.net/products/acemoney/personal-finance-software-quicken-alternative.shtml">Acemoney</a> which is free for a single bank account and nicely designed for PC or Mac; programs like Quicken that I used for a few years were a pain with their closed-source file formats designed to keep you loyal and their "sunset policy" to try to force you to buy more of their software every-time the sun sets. <a href="http://www.grisbi.org/">Grisbi</a> <a href="http://www.gnucash.org/">Gnucash</a> & <a href="http://www.turbocashuk.com/">Turbocash</a> were a bit compicated for what I needed, but entirely open source and free.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.techmixer.com/best-free-online-accounting-website/">Waveaps</a> is one of the few free online accounting programs on the tech radar list to have kept going for a few years, and it can scrape data from a large number of bank accounts. It states that it's working on systems to double-check data for errors caused by changes of format on online bank statements. <span style="color: red;"><b>Update</b></span> - <a href="https://www.pandle.co.uk/">Pandle</a> has a long-term free version too, without an automatic bank feed but with more carefully--expert-checked systems for UK VAT records. It's online like Waveapps and the bank feed costgs £5 a month with a few other bonus extras<br />
<br />
<a href="https://mybrightbook.com/">https://mybrightbook.com</a>/ is another free online accounting app that has kept going for a few years. It accepts bank statement files as .ofx or .qif with a special converter for Co-op files. </span></span></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<s><a class="external_link" href="https://quickfile.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Quickfile.co.uk</a>, the online service, is the free accounts software that I use.</s> Quickfile now charges £50 if you have more than 1000 transactions a year. The average is calculated each month, like VAT. That compares to zero for free software on your hard disc, zero for Waveapps, and zero for Brightbooks.<br />
<br />
When I used to use Quickfile I discovered this. It likes to set-up accounts for money invoiced and not yet paid or received; you have to try to stop it doing that or things get complicated. It also helps if you have pretend customers like "paypal", and "merchant account", to save electronic accounting of those accounts, and to have pretend suppliers like "office stuff", rather than build-up a list of every stationary shop you've ever used your debit card at. VAT accounting might complicate things a bit.<br />
<br />
Lastly, Quickfile will automatically download statements from one or two of the major UK banks: Barclays, Lloyds TSB Business Banking, HSBC Business Banking, Natwest, Royal Bank of Scotland, Santander Business Banking. These are done through their own Chrome browser plug-in.<br />
<br />
That list of banks is worth checking-out, because it saves you downloading and up-loading the data from your bank to quickfile each month. If you do, most banks and probably all business banks let you download the data manually, while more of them let you keep a copy via Waveapps. These are formats for uploading to quickfile: Excel (csv), Microsoft Money (ofx), Quickbooks (qbo), Quicken (qif), Text file (txt) - <i>Santander only - Santander personal accounts provide this</i></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> Do you need funding for assets? - Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not - <span style="color: red;">Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? </span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="color: red;">Yes</span>. - Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span></blockquote>
<hr align="left" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000; font-size: large;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Do you need an accountant? I don't have one.</span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I don't know why people have accountants. Likely reasons include statutory account-signing for limited liability on a larger turnover, tax advice, spotting mistakes before the tax office, and out-sourcing of office work that is so routine that accountants know how to automate it.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, Waveapps is free and does a lot of the book-keeping work except payroll. [update: Waveapps stopped automated European bank data upload in September 2019, because of the hassle of transferring to the new open bank data system, and say they will not work with UK government's Making Tax Digital requirements, both because their income comes from america and they don't want to spend time on customers in Europe. Open Banking sounds cheap to go-along-with but anyway it's up to them]<br />
<br />
I've just come back with a meeting at Tax Assist who charge from £1295 per year for business accounts. <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jan/12/find-accountant-tax-return-how-much-pay">This Guardian article</a> suggests that a lot of people get deals around £10+VAT a month if paid annually, for one-person income tax returns under the VAT threshold, which could be good value for someone who's earning a lot and doesn't have a lot of time. Search "cheapest accountants" on <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&q=cheapest+accountants">Google</a> or <a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=cheapest+accountants&rf=1&qpvt=cheapest+accountants">Bing</a> to find H & Co at the same price - £8.34 a month + VAT minimum price for income tax.. This is H&C's price list, that's published with a hefty referral fee after each item.<br />
<br />
<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" style="width: 100%px;"><tbody>
<tr><td>Limited Company Accounts</td><td style="text-align: right;"><div>
£1,000</div>
</td> <td><div align="center">
<br /></div>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Sole Trader Accounts</td> <td style="text-align: right;"><div>
£200</div>
</td> <td><div align="center">
<br /></div>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Contractors and Taxi Drivers (Under 12k PA)</td> <td style="text-align: right;"><div>
£150</div>
</td> <td><div align="center">
<br /></div>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td>Contractors and Taxi Drivers (Up to 50k PA)</td> <td style="text-align: right;"><div>
£200</div>
</td> <td><div align="center">
<br /></div>
</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Similar searches come-up with the same kind of price, but presumably the name of the accounts package ought to be part of the search if you want someone who can log-on and get the gist quickly. Not much comes-up under "cheap accountant waveapps". <a href="https://pronetwork.waveapps.com/anonsearch/">Wave's own advert pages</a> ought to be a place to look - specially in areas of high accountancy graduate unemployment like Hull and Coleraine, but the results are more restrained and often out of date.<br />
<br />
I have another blog post called "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">star courses</a>" that says something about finding cheap accountancy graduates from Unistats data about their earnings, and don't know why the two findings don't match. I would expect to see people from Coleraine and Hull advertising on the pages of Waveapps and on Gumtree to offer themselves as book keepers and accountants, but that doesn't much happen. There is one cheap accountancy firm in Hull advertising on Waveapps. It could be that I am searching for the wrong things; one review site says that <a href="http://accountingreviews.co.uk/wave-accounting-waveapps-review/">Waveapps is no good for VAT</a>, so maybe the cheap accountants are busy on another piece of software.</blockquote>
<hr align="left" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Merchant accounts</b> and currency conversion.</span> </span></span></span></span></span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669">Outfits like Paypal are a good start until you have some turnover. There is a new one for direct debits called <a href="http://gocardless.co.uk/">Gocardless.co.uk</a> which has one or two others working alongside for small commission between them. Whichever route you choose the charge to you is 1% </span></span><br />
Stripe are a good bet for card conversion. Before them I used Elavon Merchant Services who, towards the end, offered a web service with no need to hire a terminal. Apparently this is called the mobile pay-as-you-go version and they tell me that I now pay as much for it as I do for Paypal on some cards - the fees are broken down by card with debit cards cheapest. Worldpay has just emailed to say that they offer pay-as-you-go prices as well. I don't know if they have a deal that lets you use a web logon to their mobile version and save the price of terminal, or not, but that's what I do with Elavon. A thid provider cropped-up when I told Wave Apps that I had a limited company. Their online offer to Stripe suddenly got cheaper, with the headline rate at 1.4% but higher rates for overseas cards and no cheap rate for debit cards, so it is more expensive than the 1.4% figure first looks.</fieldset>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<fieldset>
<span id="ld_zmqiay_34668"><span id="ld_zmqiay_34669"> <br />
I don't know a site to publish prices given for card processing, but under 2% for credit cards is respectable, plus an amount for each transaction, and usually plus £15 a month for a terminal. There's a growing market in smartphone payment systems from the likes of SumUp, but they all assume you want to pay more than 2%, often plus a monthly payment, which personally I do not want to do. I want to sell UK-made goods on a lowish margin, and pay a little tax. I do not want to sell Chinese goods on a huge margin and not care how much paypal take, if there's a choice.<br />
<br />
If you can get customers to pay by bank transfer, that's free to most accounts but don't advertise bank details if it's easy for people to set-up fraudulent direct debits. They appear on your account with plausible names like "£30 National Trust" or "£29.45 Virgin Media", and you have to contact your bank to cancel them straight away. Usually you get your money back.<br />
<br />
</span></span><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Currency conversion</b>.</span> The P2P outfits <a href="https://transferwise.com/">Transferwise</a> or <a href="https://www.currencyfair.com/">Currencyfair</a> will do a better job than any bank. Thomas Running's blog post about banking for nomads lists one or two "<a href="https://medium.com/nomad-gate/the-world-s-best-bank-accounts-for-international-travelers-and-nomads-3257e6839cff">bank accounts for international travellers and nomads</a>", excluding the UK's Ivobank which survived a year before it closed, but others may last longer. LHV Bank of Lithuania looked likely to offer a free euro account but needed an id.ee proof of identity, which costs just over €100. Then I discovered I was wrong, after buying the id but that was my fault. <br />
<br />
For import and export companies, a new outfit called something like B2B Euro Account offer a minimal euro account with next to no fees except 1% currency conversion - I don't know if it's useful to anyone but found it by accident.<br />
Good luck</fieldset>
</div>
<span style="color: red;">Do you need a business overdraft? No.</span> Do you need funding for assets? - Do you need a business name on a bank account? maybe not - Do you want to book-keeping aids to tag categories like costs and sales to pay tax? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes. - <span style="color: red;">Merchant accounts and currency conversion</span></span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> - What government can do</span></blockquote>
<hr align="left" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">What government can do</span></h3>
<blockquote>
<fieldset>
This is mainly for businesses that make things or buy from businesses that make things.<br />
<br />
<br />
The Planning Act requires us not to do anything commercial in<br />
residential zones unless we have been doing it since 1964, This<br />
under-estimates the advantages to residential areas of seeing<br />
people at work and having a variety of people about. The act is<br />
less enforced than it might be; work at home is tolerated. But<br />
landlords can still put clauses in their tenancies to say that<br />
you should not run an alkaline works in your bedsit, or something<br />
like that, which makes things harder for tenants, ant it's hard<br />
for people with neighbours who complain about smelting or tyre<br />
recycling or perfectly useful things on their doorstep. <br />
<br />
A second problem is that businesses cannot find each other. Government<br />
has information about who pays taxes for what, whether companies<br />
or sole traders registered for VAT. Government doesn't find any<br />
way to get this information for free into trade directories so<br />
that someone who wants twelve pairs of shoes made in the UK, or<br />
a special widget, can't get it done in the UK. At the moment the<br />
Revenue and Customs Act forbids this kind of tax information being<br />
used for any other purpose - even tp answer freedom of infomation<br />
requests or go in something like Kompass Directory. The answer<br />
is to release it next to each company on the Companies House web<br />
site.<br />
<br />
A third problem is that something can be made in China, without<br />
the costs of a welfare state, and shipped to the UK practically<br />
free under an International Postal Union treaty that's meant to<br />
help developing countries, apparently. When the goods come-in,<br />
there is no way that anyone can check each envelope for VAT liability.<br />
These goods compete with goods sold in shops that have to pay<br />
VAT, rent, rates, insurance, and employ staff. There is no way<br />
that shops with these costs can compete with online imports that<br />
don't. You can't even compete on ebay if you try to sell the same<br />
thing second hand: your postage costs are too high. The answer<br />
is to have postage from China set at the commercial rate, plus<br />
a tax to reflect the lower costs of Chinese production that come<br />
from unfair competition; from the lack of democracy or a welfare<br />
state that are expensive. <br />
<br />
<br />
A fourth problem sounds a bit like the first one. Government often<br />
subsidises imports, sometimes, to reduce prices and inflation,<br />
and shouldn't do it in future.<br />
<br />
It's called Monetary Policy, it's managed by the Bank of England,<br />
and it works by government paying a higher rate of interest than<br />
it needs to do on government debt. So we all pay a bit more, overseas<br />
investors buy pounds to lend, and the value of pounds goes up.<br />
That makes it unfairly difficult for people to make things in<br />
the UK and compete with imports or when selling abroad. So: economists<br />
need to come-up with a better system for reducing inflation and<br />
admit that the previous one was not ideal if you live in the north<br />
of England or Wales or Scotland or you want to work in manufacturing.<br />
Nobody has ever apologised for this policy that closed a fifth<br />
of manufacturing in the five years after 1979 leaving a quarter<br />
of the workforce unemployed, sick, or on government schemes. According<br />
to economists and newspapers it was a success.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
Magenta 14's guide to security, from a post on Rebuildingsociety, posted here so that I have somewhere to read it more carefully - I haven't really got the hang. Rebuildingsociety now publish a guide to borrowers and lenders about security, linked straight from their front page.<br />
<br />
<div id="content-wrapper">
<div class="single-column" id="maincontent">
<div id="loan-profile">
<div id="profile-discussion">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="accordion">
<h3>
Magenta14: A wee guide to Security for reference.<span class="state state-selected"></span></h3>
<div class="accordian-content" style="display: block;">
<div id="bbpress-forums">
<ul class="forums bbp-replies" id="topic-254571-replies" style="text-align: left;">
<li class="bbp-body"> <div class="post-254571 topic type-topic status-publish hentry odd bbp-parent-forum-247418 bbp-parent-topic-254571 bbp-reply-position-1 user-id-14223 topic-author" id="post-254571">
<div class="bbp-reply-author">
magenta14 </div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
<span class="post_date">May 8, 2016 at 14:39</span> Hi all,<br />
When I 1st joined ReBS in late February 2014 I found myself bewildered by the types of Guarantees, or combinations thereof, offered to secure my family’s funds. Like many perhaps it’s a rapid learning curve resulting in my largest single Default £400 + sustained in 2014. 18 months on those funds with Mowbray & Son’s are still outstanding. [Please take a wee look at that loan site for information on the work recoveries have done on behalf of myself and other Lenders...<br />
<br />
Though oft times a very tricky task to decide who to lend to so to help you make up your minds if you wish to lend then here's a guide to the Guarantee's to help you reduce your risk and give you a better chance of getting a little, some, some more. Or all of your funds back in the event of a default.<br />
Lending can be a seriously risky business so [when NOT if a 'marital breakdown' occurs make sure you are using the best protection to secure your assets.<br />
Happy reading and take care,<br />
James.<br />
<h4>
A] Personal Guarantee.</h4>
<i>Note: Very Commonly offered to ‘protect’ a loan here at ReBS…You may wish to consider how financially secure the person[s] are when this level of protection is offered to protect your funds, would they be able to meet their obligations in the event of a Default. <br />
<br />
Is the Business Owner capable, really know their market, is their Business model built on a strong foundation.</i><br />
<br />
Definition – What does Personal Guarantee mean?<br />
<br />
A personal guarantee is an arrangement that is signed and verified by a borrower, or a third party, in order to accept the liability for one’s own or a third party’s obligations or funds payable. The lender, or the first party, that takes this guarantee from the borrower, or a third party acting on the borrower’s behalf, can attach the guarantor’s personal assets in case the borrower fails to repay the debt or fails to meet any of the obligations covered by the guarantee. The personal guarantee is significant because it acts as a signed blank check. If the borrower defaults on a payment, the lender is directly eligible for the named property or asset without being required to attempt to recover the payment from the borrower. This guarantee is the basis of lending to startups in the absence of collaterals.<br />
<br />
Divestopedia explains Personal Guarantee:<br />
When a firm wishes to borrow funds, a personal guarantee signed by the owners or promoters as well as a third person, in some cases, may be insisted upon by the lender. This is especially true for a startup. This guarantee is demanded in order to reduce the risk of a loan default. Many firms have a limited liability status, in which case the partners and shareholders have a very nominal liability. In such cases, the assets of the firm are pledged for a loan, and a personal guarantee, signed by the owners or directors, is the backup for a larger quantum of borrowing. If there is a personal guarantee given by a third party or the partners or directors of the firm, the personal assets of the guarantors can be attached immediately, which ensures the quick recovery of debts and other obligations, without even seeking recovery from the original borrowing firm. Normally, liquidating assets and recovering cash is a lengthy and complicated process, and a personal guarantee provides additional convenience to lenders. From the borrower’s point of view, personal guarantee is not the preferred option. Instead of signing a personal guarantee, a pledging of some specific assets as collateral can be considered by the borrower, in which case the borrower may save some of his or her assets and spousal assets, in case the loan is not repaid in time.<br />
<br />
<h4>
A.1] What is Personal Guarantee Insurance?</h4>
Here’s a link to follow to provide a wee guide on this product, hope it helps?<br />
<a href="http://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/articles/director-advice/what-is-personal-guarantee-insurance">http://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/articles/director-advice/what-is-personal-guarantee-insurance</a> .<br />
<h4>
B] Corporate Guarantee</h4>
<i>Note: Certain Lenders at ReBS actively seek to secure this type of guarantee because of the enhanced protection it affords to their own and other peoples Lent Funds.</i><br />
<br />
Definition of “Corporate Guarantee”:<br />
A Corporate Guarantee is a guarantee in which a corporation agrees to be held responsible for completing the duties and obligations of a debtor to a lender, in the event that the debtor fails to fulfill the terms of the debtor-lender contract. Also known as a corporate guaranty.<br />
<h4>
C] Cross Guarantee:</h4>
<i>Note: Certain Lenders at ReBS actively seek to secure this type of guarantee because of the enhanced protection it affords to their own and other peoples Lent Funds.</i><br />
<br />
Definition – What does Cross Guarantee mean?:<br />
<br />
A cross guarantee is an arrangement between two or more related firms to provide reciprocal guarantees for each other’s liabilities, fulfillment of promises, or obligations. This guarantee is agreed upon among related companies, such as groups of companies or a parent company and subsidiaries and affiliates. A creditor of any one firm of the group becomes the creditor of every other firm of the group.<br />
<br />
It is significant because the contractual promise reduces the risk of the lenders, thus enabling borrowers to negotiate for a better deal. Cross guarantee may be beneficial to borrower with respect to better interest rates, tenure of repayment, and/ or quantum of loan.<br />
<br />
Divestopedia explains Cross Guarantee:<br />
The place where cross guarantees become cross border guarantees might invite scrutiny of regulators of different countries. Cross guarantees must be disclosed under contingent liability, along with lawsuits and warranties with the balance sheets. Sometimes implicit cross guarantee may be implied merely by the passive association of a firm with a firm of global or regional reputation, and a higher credit rating may result from this situation.<br />
While drafting the guarantee agreement, it is customary to include a clause of indemnity to give additional advantage to the lender. In such cases, the courts may favor the lender by interpreting the agreement as an indemnity bond, which makes it unfavorable from the guarantor’s point of view. The capacity to give cross guarantee should be based on the article of association of the firms. If the directors are the beneficiaries of the guarantee, then the shareholders approval may be required. The lender can enforce a guarantee even if the security of principal borrowers’ assets is held by him.<br />
<h4>
D] First Charge [Exceptionally rare here at ReBS].</h4>
<i>Note: Affords Lenders a high degree of protection in return for receiving a very favourable loan rate.</i><br />
A legal right under which the owner of the first charge has the right to decide on what to do with a property if the borrower fails to maintain the repayments i.e. the mortgage lender will in most cases hold the first charge on a property until the mortgage is fully repaid.<br />
<h4>
E] What is a ‘Second Charge’? [Commonly offered at ReBS].</h4>
Note: You wish to look for a high equity value in the Property or Properties being offered as 2nd charge security because in a default situation the 1st charge holder may choose to sell the Property below market value Just to recover their own funds. Please consider that the 1st charge holder is under no obligation to protect the interests of the 2nd charge holder.<br />
A Second Charge is a legal charge put on a property in favour of a lender, or creditor. A Second Charge comes second in line to a ‘First Charge’, which would normally be your mortgage.<br />
When the property gets sold, the First Charge – i.e. the mortgage, will be cleared in full before the Second Charge receives any money. The Second Charge would then be in line to receive funds from the sale, up to the full outstanding balance of the Second Charge.<br />
Any funds remaining from the sale at this point would be passed to the seller.<br />
In closing:<br />
For those of you like me who may struggle with all the various security types offered to you by prospective Borrowers at ReBS I have spent some time today seeking out the definitions that have been presented in the clearest English rather than something more complicated.<br />
[Life's too short, keep it simple, keep safe].<br />
Hope you find the information helpful, please feel free to retain for future reference.<br />
With Best regards, James.<br />
<span class="post-ratings" data-nonce="e5ddbc18e0" id="post-ratings-254571"><img alt="Vote This Post Down" id="rating_254571_1" src="https://www.rebuildingsociety.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-postratings/images/thumbs/rating_1_on.gif" style="border: 0px; cursor: pointer;" title="Vote This Post Down" /><img alt="Vote This Post Up" id="rating_254571_2" src="https://www.rebuildingsociety.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-postratings/images/thumbs/rating_2_off.gif" style="border: 0px; cursor: pointer;" title="Vote This Post Up" /> (<b>+4</b> rating, <b>4</b> votes)</span> </div>
</div>
<div class="post-254579 reply type-reply status-publish hentry even bbp-parent-forum-247418 bbp-parent-topic-254571 bbp-reply-position-2 user-id-14223 topic-author" id="post-254579">
<div class="bbp-reply-author">
<a class="bbp-author-name" href="https://www.rebuildingsociety.com/members/magenta14/" rel="nofollow" title="View magenta14's profile">magenta14</a> </div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
<span class="post_date">May 8, 2016 at 23:42</span> <br />
<h4>
F] Debentures:</h4>
<i>Note: A strong form of lender Security provided the assets covered by the Debenture are Really worth something under an auction or ‘Fire Sale’ situation following on from a Company Insolvency.</i><br />
<i> </i><i>Some fellow Members will check to see what’s covered [Captured] by the Debenture [to work out it's value] Before lending their funds.</i><br />
<br />
When lending money to a company (or indeed a limited liability partnership), lenders want to ensure that their interests are protected as securely as possible. Debentures are a common method of obtaining security, under which a lender is typically granted both fixed and floating charges over all of a company’s assets and undertakings.<br />
<br />
With their combination of fixed and floating charges, debentures are intended to meet the need of companies for increased working capital by allowing additional borrowing secured on the circulating assets of a trading business. A debenture is widely accepted as a necessity for many corporate lending arrangements, in particular where there is not enough security over property alone for the lender to feel comfortable.<br />
<br />
The key distinction between a fixed and floating charge is that a lender has control of the assets subject to a fixed charge, whereas the borrower retains control over those assets subject to a floating charge.<br />
<br />
Fixed charges are typically granted by a borrower over assets such as freehold and leasehold properties, and fixtures such as plant and machinery if these are owned by the borrower. Fixed charges can also be granted over book debts, uncalled capital, goodwill and shares.A debenture will also typically include floating charges over present and future move able assets such as stock and unsecured fixtures. Floating charges are less attractive to a lender than fixed charges as they rank behind preferential creditors and certain other creditors in the event of a default by a borrower. The borrower is also able to deal with the assets subject to the charge in the ordinary course of business, by selling stock for example, without obtaining the lender’s consent, subject to any restrictions to the contrary in the debenture itself. Bank debentures are normally expressed to be “all monies” debentures: that is to say, they secure not only existing loans but all present and future loan advances. The all-encompassing nature of debentures makes them an attractive form of security for lenders, but equally unattractive to borrowers.<br />
Unfortunately for the borrower, in the event of a default, the lender has the right to appoint an administrator or administrative receiver to realise any assets subject to a fixed charge, and will be paid out of the proceeds in preference to other creditors. In such circumstances the lender would normally gain control over the assets which were subject to floating charges, which would crystallise to become fixed charges, leaving the borrower unable to deal with the assets in the ordinary course of business.<br />
<br />
In order to be enforceable, security under a debenture needs to be perfected. This involves registering the debenture document at Companies House, and may also involve obtaining prior consent by giving notice of the security interests to third parties and the registration of the security interest in other public registers such as the Land Registry.<br />
[Life's too short, keep it simple, keep your assets safe].<br />
Best regards, James.<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bad economics degrees</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback, but presumably make most money because non-EU fees tend to be double EU fees.</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">the author</span> sells <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan belts made to order, and Bouncing Boots made in the UK">vegan shoes online at Veganline.com</a></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan belts made to order, and Bouncing Boots made in the UK"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">, a UK online vegan shoe sho<span style="font-family: inherit;">p. Many of them are UK-made or European-made.</span></span></span></span></a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
O</span>h I've just done a post about <span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Keele</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html" title="Fishman Scholarships are no given in memory of the laste Professor Les Fishman, who taught economics so badly to a bunch of innocent 20 year-olds">Uni Economics teaching in the early 80s which was so bad it becomes interesting to know how bad <span style="font-family: inherit;">an economics course can be</span></a>. One reason seems to the that the Mc<span style="font-family: inherit;">Graw Hill C<span style="font-family: inherit;">ompany publishes stuff like lesson plans and lecture notes to anyone to use while teaching from the tex<span style="font-family: inherit;">tbook, so if a<span style="font-family: inherit;">s a teach<span style="font-family: inherit;">er you make some e<span style="font-family: inherit;">xcuse to cancel the more inter<span style="font-family: inherit;">esting bits of the course</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.com/2015/07/httpwwwindependentcouknewsukpoliticswat.html">By the way I have just done a blog post about Lord Sewell, who seems to have done nothing wrong except stating that his colleagues earn £300 a day for turning-up and dong F-all, which everybody knows but his colleagues don't want published in The Sun</a><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com61tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-55918377827627128672015-06-25T19:21:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:23:37.172+01:00Is Drupal Commerce still a pig for adding products?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
Sometimes when walking around, it's easy to re-run an old journey just to see if anything has changed. It seems to happen on autopilot. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">I really meant to see if X-cart installs from Drupal, from among the shopping carts mentioned on another page,</a> but I think it only links in some way.<br />
<br />
I remembered why I started writing this blog about Drupal for ecommrece a few years ago, thinking it would be a temporary set of notes kept for a month until I could get a better <a href="http://veganline.com/" TITLE="veggie shoes">veggie shoe shop</a> site online - hence the blog name "buildlog". I remembered that Drupal plugins are rather exciting in inviting you to a techie world rather like the script installer on your web host. Drupal has a pre-arranged "distribution" for daily deals and another for a hotel selling bookings. It's easy to hope that there will be some module soon for whatever trade you are in, or maybe a developer could write something for you that would be much harder to write for standard shopping cart software, like a link to your accounts program or something more exciting perhaps. There is a chance to collabrate, which is more interesting than just competing. I remembered that you can install Drupal from there, then go to its admin page to install more modules. You can see the "Modules" link near the top right of the picture. Click on it and this is what you get:<br />
<br />
<hr align="left" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">You can find <a href="https://drupal.org/project/modules">modules</a> and <a href="https://drupal.org/project/themes">themes</a> on <a href="https://drupal.org/">drupal.org</a>. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">The following file extensions are supported: <i class="placeholder">zip tar tgz gz bz2</i>.</span><br />
<div class="form-item form-type-textfield form-item-project-url"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><label for="edit-project-url">Install from a URL </label> <input class="form-text" id="edit-project-url" maxlength="128" name="project_url" size="60" type="text" value="" /></span> <br />
<div class="description"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee;">For example: <i class="placeholder">http://ftp.drupal.org/files/projects/name.tar.gz</i></span></div></div></blockquote><hr align="left" /><br />
If you can find the right module from the modules link, right-click to "copy link location", then go back to paste it into the "Install from a URL" box. Press "enter". If all goes well you get a barbour's-shop bar accross the screen for a while, then some message that includes a linke to "install new modules", which takes you back to the modules section of your admin screen.<br />
<br />
Names of required but now missing modules are in red that you now have to track-down and install from the same site (it's not automatic). Then you can tick the box next to Drupal Commerce, press enter, and automatically the thing installs all the relevant modules with a the odd hickup where you have to press control+backarrow and try again. Finally you have a new admin column called "store" and an option to "add product".<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnkmfT9ZMSNeSUjw5Ggj4_EEc4940kYVRLX0uB1W5OXC93NFbg-bMTTDpn1QQGLW03zDV8MDAKbGXD8kI6R7AUmRxzheRGt0CL6GGbzh9I9-Bp3XaP-ziQ0PomZv8E-LRN5XZTuUnNMDIc/s1600/drupal-commerce-add-product.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" title="screenshot of the add product screen for Drupal Commerce"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnkmfT9ZMSNeSUjw5Ggj4_EEc4940kYVRLX0uB1W5OXC93NFbg-bMTTDpn1QQGLW03zDV8MDAKbGXD8kI6R7AUmRxzheRGt0CL6GGbzh9I9-Bp3XaP-ziQ0PomZv8E-LRN5XZTuUnNMDIc/s1600/drupal-commerce-add-product.jpg" title="Free, Fast, and Pretty: choosing a shopping cart" /></a><br />
<br />
It's not a lot of good is it? A bit liked a stipped-down racing car or a quadbike for someone who really wants a delivery van or a market stall or some other wheeled retail thing as a metaphor. In the USA where they watch films of cowboys and covered wagons or carts, they call the things shopping carts. The term is well-know in the internet retail trade. It is not what you write from the screen shown shown above.<br />
<br />
There's no help about related issues like the categories of the catalogue and how they are laid-out, nor attributes, nor any warning on the page about this instruction:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"><a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/faq/product-display">On a clean install of Drupal Commerce, simply adding products to the backend is not enough to display them for sale with an Add to Cart form. Drupal Commerce separates the definition (on the back end) from the display (on the front end) of a product</a>.</span></blockquote><br />
I tried a google search by date in case there's anything recent to say <i>"this new module irons-out the techie awkwardness of doing the most basic things on this software"</i>, but not much came-up. Only one thing came-up in the last 12 months from 2015.06 .26 backwards. <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgx0ntZAbxakNOVIGW7akCURlX3W7LQwDbhEH1o7QPX7POBDWJAakVKkmlWUjQIvsXBmyZ2t7kFUNcocOynqJf9y_3D3GFU1yzv3Q4ETfz2xOVCY5eUwrDFOluobfrp81lvzzjdTyhNV2ed/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="355" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgx0ntZAbxakNOVIGW7akCURlX3W7LQwDbhEH1o7QPX7POBDWJAakVKkmlWUjQIvsXBmyZ2t7kFUNcocOynqJf9y_3D3GFU1yzv3Q4ETfz2xOVCY5eUwrDFOluobfrp81lvzzjdTyhNV2ed/s640/temp.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>No results. Except something 10-months old about writing your own php code, which very few shopkeepers are likely to want to do, unless they are sick of being shopkeepers and want to build a new career in php code-writing. Not many people would want to do both at once for long.<br />
<br />
I tried searching modules on Drupal.org but find the search system hard to use. The Drupal Commerce site itself has a list of modules so I tried reading the title of every single one, loosing track a little.<br />
<br />
DrupalCommerce.org still set themselves a dual role in bidding for big-budget work while promoting Drupal Commerce for the cheap or DIY work of which they have no direct experience to keep them up-to-date. If they could somehow find enthusiasts from among developers who do this kind of work to keep that part of the site up to date, that would be great.<br />
<br />
They have a "distribution" category. They don't mention whether you can use a script installer on your web server and then press a button to upgrade Drupal to the full distribution; I don't know.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/extensions/distribution/project/telekonsum">drupalcommerce.org/extensions/distribution/project/telekonsum</a></li>
<li>http://www.louisvillewebgroup.com/project/ecommify</li>
<li>they don't mention a new one - Drupalife Store mainly in Russian.</li>
<li>I doubt these are a first choice for a shopkeeper looking for a cheap e-commerce system because of the fiddleyness of installing Drupal without being able to use a script installer, but they may be good for shopkeepers who want a bit of this and that and some integration.</li>
</ul>Drupal Commerce themselves have a "utilities" category. These can be installed onto a Drupal installation that comes from a script installer on a host site. Drupal Commerce mention a module as well as providing a screencast of how to use it, but it remains in Alpha release with no further development planned:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>drupal.org/project/commerce_product_display_manager (thanks <a href="http://www.danielhjalmarson.com/wordpress">danielhjalmarson.com/wordpress</a>)</li>
<li>drupal.org/project/commerce_simple got further (thanks <a href="http://w3shaman.com/">w3shaman.com</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.drupal.org/project/commerce_auto_product_display">drupal.org/project/commerce_auto_product_display</a> is actively maintained I think - this page is a note in progress and I may change it in a day or two. </li>
<ul><ul><li>If the module is perfect, there's still the problem of the people who write Drupal-based shopping cart software, usually for a living as part of some company and think it OK to promote software to small business which is no good for small business; it is a kit for web developers. I don't know if it's chance that Wordpress shopping carts have problems fitting-in to their market too. I haven't tried Joomla-based shopping carts but maybe they don't know what their prospects want either. A bit like most of us in other parts of life but I shall stick to technical discussion of shopping cart software.</li>
</ul></ul></ul><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
The next <span style="font-family: inherit;">post is <span style="font-family: inherit;">on a different subject: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">choosing a </a><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html" title="UK business bank ccounts: choosing a bank account for a tech startup in London">bank account for a UK tech startup</a>.<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Previous post: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html">Guide to Royal Mail for web shop developers not based in the UK</a><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html"></a>.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
blog from</span> <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">Veganline.com that sells those British-made vegan shoes and boots onl<span style="font-family: inherit;">ine</span></a> </div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-91616229246329151502015-06-24T14:19:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:23:39.010+01:00A tourist guide to Royal Mail for small ecommerce shops & web developers<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Introduction: Royal Mail for ecommerce </b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGaQY7cXXLtUBDLRhraR6FtYmxhRDauV5pI4cU98hr-ySP-cfKKW5I9z7FEnoJF9B1CAW2nTS6RMT-chJbz4FkTH4ErwYUioZvWGEtegFeTZPqoepUPkedSlx5rM989IohYvuCs1fmPH_P/s1600/Royal-Mail-008%255B1%255D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="picture of a letter box" border="0" height="120" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGaQY7cXXLtUBDLRhraR6FtYmxhRDauV5pI4cU98hr-ySP-cfKKW5I9z7FEnoJF9B1CAW2nTS6RMT-chJbz4FkTH4ErwYUioZvWGEtegFeTZPqoepUPkedSlx5rM989IohYvuCs1fmPH_P/s200/Royal-Mail-008%255B1%255D.jpg" width="200" /></a></div>A frustration of using ecommerce software in the UK or outside the US is that so few web developers write a postage module for the simplest basic postal service. They don't even write a tablequote kit so that a shopkeeper can fill-in a managable small table of their own prices for zones and weights, like this:</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>UK - where a 2nd class 2kg parcel can be posted for £2.80 and there is a 2.5cm "large letter size" that goes cheaper up to 750g</li>
<li>"<a href="http://www.royalmail.com/international-zones#europe">Europe</a>" with a fiddly "UK zone B" for the Channel Islands, and 64 other countries</li>
<li>"Worldwide Zone 1", which is everything else except </li>
<li>"<a href="http://www.royalmail.com/international-zones#worldzone2">Worldwide Zone 2</a>" with 34 countries. <br />
The zones outside the UK have detailed price / weight tables.<br />
There is a table further down this page for converting Royal Mail's names to ISO country codes.<br />
</li>
</ul></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><div style="text-align: left;">I tried to change one shopping cart module so that <i>"Afghanestan"</i> became UK, <i>"Andorra"</i> became Europe, <i>"American Samoa"</i> bacame Worldwide Zone 1, and <i>"Aruba"</i> became Worldwide Zone 2. It felt like being Napoleon without the war crimes, but I didn't quite manage to make it work. Recently, I've discovered that the Drupal Ubercart module imports a country once and then keeps the name on the database. If you can find the right program on the control panel of your web host to poke into the database, sufficient trial and error brings you to the names of countries which you can change by hand to anything you like. <br />
<br />
I wished that someone used-to modules and code could have done it for me. Maybe the shopping cart developers think <i>"I'll make a living selling add-ons on commission, and someone is bound to write a Royal Mail add-on"</i>. Then module developers look at Royal Mail's web site with all its complicated extra services like franking, and its whimsical change, and decide not to write a module. Nobody wants to get caught between a sprawling set of services that can change at any time, and an irate customer who has only paid £10 for a module but expects some kind of support.<br />
<br />
From what I can see of other post offices' web sites in Europe, they follow the same pattern of a few world zones priced by weight, with a fixed size and price for 0-2kg parcels that they like to post on home ground, plus letters, large letters, and sprawling web sites with loads of decoy mail services that no sane person would use, special jargon words like "<a href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=docket" target="_blank" title="http://www.onelook.com/?w=docket">docket</a>", trademarked premium services such as <i><a href="https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmownerid/search?domain=1&id=196132&app=1&name=Royal+Mail&postcode=" target="_blank" title="Trade Marks owned by Royal Mail Group Limited
Your search found 1235 results. Page 1 of 124 is shown.">Like-To-Pay-More ®</a></i> - all sorts of things. Names like <i>"delivered ®"</i> or<i>"here to there with a stamp on ®"</i> are common. Big courier web sites are similar. I've just found another page where emergency closures and delays are listed <a href="http://www.royalmail.com/service-update/international">Royalmail.com/service-update/international</a>. There seem always to be more pages to find. </div></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.ipo.gov.uk/trademark/image/GB50000000001286694.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="200" src="https://www.ipo.gov.uk/trademark/image/GB50000000001286694.jpg" width="178" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: red;">Puzzling trademark ®</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table><div style="text-align: left;">Large-scale UK shopkeepers or their warehouse contractors will know the kaleidoscope of prices & services; they will simply tell a developer what they want. They may even know what franking machines are good for. This page isn't for large-scal shopkeepers. This page is just is a tourist guide to every-day Royal Mail services for individuals, ebayers, stallholders, crafters, smaller-scale shopkeepers, and developers who write for them. The stuff that ebay sellers and shopkeepers have picked-up just by living in the UK and hope that software developers around the world will happen to know too. They might post in a forum or send you an email. This is what they take for granted. </div></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
I've just watched a video that says "<a a="" and="" be="" borrows="" calls="" card="" credit="" cross="" d="" did="" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJR1DQb2qWU" i="" if="" it="" money="" on="" or="" person="" salary.="" sells="" shares="" that="" they="" title="" who="">we live in an Amazon world. The customers' expectation is 2 days</a>". But the bloke says this in front of a graph saying that customers are content for the first week, even in the US where people seem to expect chinese goods sold on a huge shop margin. People know that they can't download physical goods and have them now. He also says "fight with your suppliers", which could be why his goods turned-up late.<br />
<br />
I've got a shortlist of shopping carts on another post: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html" title="Free, Fast and Pretty: which shopping cart? - covering Abantecart, Cubecart and Prestashop">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html</a> Most don't help much with shipping or even hinder in order to sell you an over-priced module. Individuals are offered a kaleidoscope of options from Royal Mail, that seem to overwhelm the people who try to make the clear on Royal Mail's web site let alone the people who have to read all this detail. Most of these prices and services are decoys designed to charge more for the person who doesn't care how much something costs. Basically Royal Mail sends 2nd Class 0-2kg Small Parcels to the UK at a fixed price for delivery in 3-5 working days and airmail to three other world zones with a table of prices by wieght. Simple as that. Other shopkeepers might have other favourite services like the 2.5cm thick large letter, but probably not many more. The prices are low for everyone. The only discounts are 0.5% cashback on <a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/cashback-credit-cards">some visa / mastercards held in individuals' names</a>, (no Amex) and lower prices for bulk sorted mail to Royal Mail direct or some companies that feed-in to their sorting offices. </blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>You might think that Royal Mail would offer to write modules for free. No.</li>
<li>You might think that the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-business-innovation-skills">Department for Business</a> and its <a href="https://www.gov.uk/e-exporting">gov.uk/e-exporting</a> drive would make sure it's easy, given that the taxpayer still owns most of Royal Mail and the Department for Business is there to sort-out market failures, but no.There are now several departments for business or for economic development, because devolution is fashionable, and any one of these development agencies or departments could do a bit of lobbying or funding, but no.</li>
<li>You might hope that the people who write shopping cart software would make it easy, but no: they're often based in the USA and get tied-up in obscure US tax rates before they have time to think about obscure non-US post offices. Sometimes they are the sort of people who buy a T-shirt by UPS. Americans can be like that.</li>
</ul></blockquote><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> <b>Zones - Royal Mail has 4 of them plus the fiddley Channel Islands.</b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.royalmail.com/international-zones" tile="Royal Mail has 4 international zones - UK, Europe, Worldwide Zone 1 and Worldwide Zone 2">royalmail.com/international-zones</a><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/media/airmail_world_zones.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/media/airmail_world_zones.gif" height="193" width="320" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div>Royal Mail has 4 world zones: UK including Isle of Mann and Northern Ireland (with a fiddley exception for the channel islands - a tiny extra zone), Europe, Worldwide Zone 1 and Worldwide Zone 2.<br />
It's rather hard work for the shopkeeper to attach prices by weight to every single country, and for the customer to choose a country from a long alphabetical list including countries like Aruba and American Samoa which I only discovered from these lists. A module to assemble these countries into 4 zones for a table quote by price or weight might be enough of the job done to get your software company a hug from a UK merchant, or their business anyway.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">(There used to be a cheap and green rate for surface mail outside the UK that could 3 months to New Zealand. A vestige survives in "economy" mail, but it is only a few pence cheaper usually; there is more or less one price now to most places. I guess that container-size loads are still be sent privately that way.)</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.royalmail.com/surcharges" title="Royal Mail fuel surcharges for large customrs">royalmail.com/surcharges</a><br />
Highlands and Islands postcodes can attract a fuel surcharge on contract prices while courier quotes can be slower or more expensive. I haven't come-across this myself; it doesn't apply to the rate that most people pay.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">Northern Ireland is in the UK postal zone.. Royal Mail and Parcelforce couriers are the same company and you'll probably get the same postal zone for Parcelforce too.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Zones - <span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">ISO country names to Royal Mail country na<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">mes</span></span></b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><br />
I've asked Royal Mail for this list, then found that it's in the source code of a Drupal module which I don't know how to use any other way for Ubercart. I installed and used FTP to find the right file and read it in a text editor from the drupal/sites/all/modules/rmzone/rmzone.inc . There are probably similar modules for programs like Abantecart or Prestashop or Cubecart and the rest which can be read in a similar way.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 'AL', // Albania<br />
'AD', // Andorra<br />
'AM', // Armenia<br />
'AT', // Austria<br />
'AZ', // Azerbaijan<br />
// Belearic Islands: Spain<br />
'BY', // Belarus<br />
'BE', //Belgium<br />
'BA', // Bosnia Herzegovina<br />
'BG', // Bulgaria<br />
// Canary Islands: Spain<br />
// Corsica's French<br />
'HR', // Croatia<br />
'CY', // Cyprus<br />
'CZ', // Czech Republic<br />
'DK', // Denmark<br />
'EE', // Estonia<br />
'FO', // Faroe Islands<br />
'SF', // Finland<br />
'FR', // France<br />
'GE', // Georgia<br />
'DE', // Germany<br />
'GI', // Gibraltar<br />
'GR', // Greece<br />
'GL', // Greenland<br />
'HU', // Hungary<br />
'IS', // Iceland<br />
'IE', // Irish Republic<br />
'IT', // Italy<br />
'KZ', // Kazakhstan<br />
// Kosovo doesn't have an agreed code, and Drupal's iso.inc doesn't include it.<br />
'KG', // Kyrgyzstan<br />
'LV', // Latvia<br />
'LI', // Liechtenstein<br />
'LT', // Lithuania<br />
'LU', // Luxembourg<br />
'MK', // Macedonia<br />
// Madeira: Portugal<br />
'MT', // Malta<br />
'MD', // Moldova<br />
'MC', // Monaco<br />
'ME', // Montenegro<br />
'NL', // Netherlands<br />
'NO', // Norway<br />
'PL', // Poland<br />
'PT', // Portugal<br />
'RO', // Romania<br />
'RU', // Russia<br />
'SM', // San Marino<br />
'RS', // Serbia<br />
'SK', // Slovakia<br />
'SI', // Slovenia<br />
'ES', // Spain<br />
'SE', // Sweden<br />
'CH', // Switzerland<br />
'TJ', // Tajikistan<br />
'TR', // Turkey<br />
'TM', // Turkmenistan<br />
'UA', // Ukraine<br />
'UZ', // Uzbekistan<br />
'VA', // Vatican City State</span><br />
<i><br />
The software doesn't list zone 1: it's everything but the others.</i><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">/**<br />
* Returns a list of countries in the Royal Mail zone: World zone 2. Note that<br />
* there seem to be two islands that are part of the Norwegian Antarctic<br />
* Territory that don't have ISO 3166-1 codes: Peter I Island and Queen Maud<br />
* Land.<br />
*<br />
* @see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory#Norway<br />
* @see <a href="http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-3166-1_decoding_table">http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-3166-1_decoding_table</a><br />
*/</span><i><a href="https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search">https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search</a> replaces the iso decoding table mantioned above <br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20140310003042/http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-3166-1_decoding_table">with this explanation</a></i><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 'AU', // Australia<br />
'PW', // Belau<br />
'IO', // British Indian Ocean Territory<br />
'CX', // Christmas Island (Indian Ocean)<br />
// Christmas Island (Pacific Ocean)<br />
'CC', // Cocos Islands<br />
'CK', // Cook Island<br />
// Coral Sea Island: Australia<br />
'FJ', // Fiji<br />
'PF', // French Polynesia<br />
'TF', // French South Antarctic Territory<br />
// Keeling: Cocos Islands<br />
'KI', // Kiribati<br />
'MO', // Macao<br />
'NR', // Nauru Island<br />
'NC', // New Caledonia<br />
'NZ', // New Zealand<br />
// New Zealand Antarctic Territory: New Zealand<br />
'NU', // Niue Island<br />
'NF', // Norfolk Island<br />
'BV', // Norwegian Antarctic Territory (NB this excludes Peter I Island and<br />
// Queen Maud Land, which don't have ISO codes - see<br />
// https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory#Norway).<br />
'PG', // Papua New Guinea<br />
'LA', // People's Democratic Republic of Laos<br />
'PN', // Pitcairn Island<br />
'SG', // Republic of Singapore<br />
'SB', // Solomon Islands<br />
// Tahiti: French Polynesia<br />
'TK', // Tokelau Island<br />
'TO', // Tonga<br />
'TV', // Tuvalu<br />
'AS', // US Samoa<br />
'WS', // Western Samoa</span><br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>UK private couriers for parcels over 2kg</b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://veganline.com/parcel.htm" title="list of parcel prices from UK couriers">veganline.com/parcel.htm</a> <br />
lists sites that sell pre-paid labels for private courier services. There is an ever-changing kaleidoscope of services including obscure shop-to-shop services, shop-to-door, and the upmarket quick and signed-for ones, and a locker-based one which may accept your returns and not loose them forever with luck. The rule of thumb is that they are cheaper for parcels over 2kg and offer tracking. Everybody knows this except the one person at the front of every post office queue who asks very slowly "how much would 2.1kg to Aruba be? - oh, that seems a lot. Does it include tracking?".<br />
<br />
Private couriers are unlikely to become cheaper for 2kg parcels because their staff don't do a delivery round down the street; they drive from street to street delivering a parcel here and a parcel there, ringing a doorbell for each one and most likely leaving half their parcels with neighbours when customers are not in. They also miss a VAT tax break that Royal Mail enjoys (in exchange for delivering all-over the UK for one price). Their best known services involve two van-parking and doorbell-ringing trips because people are used to them collecting as well as delivering, while Royal Mail only collects sacks; you have to go to a post office and drop-off your parcels or use a letter box.<br />
<br />
The courier that comes closest to Royal Mail prices is a cheapskate operation in handling standards, delivery speed, and pay scales. They encourage recipients to suggest a porch or safe place where a parcel can be left late at night or while the customer is out, but customers ignore this, just as they ignore services like CollectPlus and UPS collection points which allow them to pick-up a product at a local shop. Customers prefer to sit at home and grumble that the courier didn't come when hoped-for. The service is better value and quicker if you drop-off parcels at one of their agents, which are places like newsagents and garages that can give a receipt and keep a parcel for the daily collection. Maybe in a few years more people will be used to picking-up parcels at places like this as well as dropping-off.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">There is a consensus that £30kg is about the most that a single courier with a trolly and a van can carry, and the usual maximum size is 56cm x 46cm x 36cm. Pallets cost more again. Rolls and matrasses are hard to shift. Worldwide container shipping is another market again.</blockquote></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Addressing - no need for counties or bar codes for Royal Mail</b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.royalmail.com/addressing" title="Royal Mail addressing guidelines for large customers">royalmail.com/addressing</a><br />
Within the UK, the administrative list of areas isn't used by Royal Mail nor couriers; there's no need to ask the customer their county or any local government area from any drop-down list, nor worry about whether an area is part of "greater london", or "london". Just leave-out the whole process of selecting an area. There is a Royal Mail recommendation to write the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_town" target="_blank" tile="Wikipedia list of post towns">post-town</a>, in capital letters, to help sort mail where the postcode is wrong or illegible, but it's not necessary. If you do want to add an optional area to an address, use post towns if you can find a way, or a paid-for module that gets the customer to match an address and postcode from Royal Mail's database. <a href="http://m.royalmail.com/mt/www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode">http://m.royalmail.com/mt/www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode </a>does the same thing by hand - if you want to double check an address - and is free for a limited number of searches per period.<br />
<br />
Customers have a number or name for each letterbox, and a postcode. Just write anything sensible in between if you want, as any address format is accepted. When pushed, Royal Mail say they need a "thoroughfare" next to the number or name of the letterbox, again as a backup.<br />
<b>name</b><br />
John Smith, Deputy Assistant Director of Dockets, Northern Irish Grant Artist Federation,<br />
<b>address and thoroughfare - on one or more lines</b><br />
Unit 1 Grant Artist House, Verycranky Trading Estate, Long Road, Verycranky, Antrim<br />
<b>last line postcode</b><br />
AN1 1AA<br />
<br />
John Smith, Rose Cottage Rose Lane, AN1 1AB would be another example<br />
<br />
I often see bar codes on large-scale mailings of bills. I don't know if there is any way to use them to get tracking thrown-in to the price. For smaller scale mailings, any clear typeface works well. Mail very seldom gets lost if the address is clear; I can't remember the last time. Automated scanners are replacing more of the hand-sorting at sorting office for pacels now, just as they did years ago for letters. <a href="http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Guide_for_clear_addressing_August2012.pdf">royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Guide_for_clear_addressing_August2012.pdf</a> gives more detail for larger customers, with astrisks next to the typefaces they suggest for printing but are unable to print themselves. Do you miss working for big organisations like this? No? It's good that somebody still works for them. They also ignore their own advice on the software that lets you print and pay-for postage online. It uses a sans-serif font with the kerning reduced so that letters merge into each other, and prints on a grey patterned background like a watermark.</blockquote><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTLvqtgaXlg64Keaxh12QhmVZyHyOWAgHhlA-y03XXMZJdSO2zbwEtdA9DMcoxzDem3I3zKnjHK87HQhnAnQFlRln62YLUXvZvjNeTHLj9X7qTc4jGcO4ONN0oorlohsqrz5MlBspwHbmL/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Bold fonts must not be used. Recommended fonts as follows. Arial 10-12pt, Avant Garde 11-15, Century School Book 10-11, Courier 10-15, Courier new 10-15, Frankfurt Gothic 10-12, Franklin Gothic (Book) 11-14, Geneva 10-12, Helvetica 10-14, Letter Gothic 12, Lucida Console 12, Lucidea Sans Typewriter 12, Monaco 12, News Gothic MT 10-12, OCR B 12, Univers 10-15, Verdana 10-12," border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTLvqtgaXlg64Keaxh12QhmVZyHyOWAgHhlA-y03XXMZJdSO2zbwEtdA9DMcoxzDem3I3zKnjHK87HQhnAnQFlRln62YLUXvZvjNeTHLj9X7qTc4jGcO4ONN0oorlohsqrz5MlBspwHbmL/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Royal Mail addressing requirements" /></a> <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Pricing & paying: <br />
UK 2nd class 2kg parcels have one price; 3 zones of weight tables ex-UK <br />
Proof of postage is free but fiddly and effects the system to use: <br />
online / drop&go</b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.royalmail.com/current-postage-prices" title="Royal Mail postsage prices">royalmail.com/prices</a> <br />
<a href="http://www.royalmail.com/help-and-support/tell-me-about-size-and-weight-formats" title="Royal Mail maximum letter and parcel sizes">royalmail.com/help-and-support/tell-me-about-size-and-weight-formats</a><br />
..quote dozens of sizes weights and services in a format called "handyguide.pdf" that changes at whim year to year; the Royalmailtechnical web has released a spreadsheet, but only for large scale services so far and the firm <a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/price_list_for_ecommerce_why_not#incoming-392038" target="_blank">refused to publish a clear spreadsheet of prices</a> in the past.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<a href="http://www.royalmail.com/price-finder" title="finding Royal Mail prices for ecommerce">royalmail.com/price-finder</a> is a route into<br />
<a href="https://www.royalmail.com/discounts-payment/online-postage/create" title="online postage printed by Royal Mail">royalmail.com/discounts-payment/online-postage/create</a> <br />
<a href="https://parcel.royalmail.com/">https://parcel.royalmail.com/</a> is a new shorter form to do the same thing:<br />
print a stamp and address from an address and postcode, and tell you a clear price if you don't buy. It can also import addresses, but only from ebay according to the help page. Ebay and Paypal also have a system of printing-out pre-paid addresses on your home printer without going to the Royal Mail web site.<br />
<br />
Royal Mail no longer has a cash-on-delivery service, even for the <a href="https://www.gov.uk/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad">annoying packages priced at over £15 that arrive from outside the EU and so have a tarrif plus VAT tax plus collection fee to pay.</a></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">Online postal payment systems demonstrate the pointlessness of weighing your post and printing a stamp with an expensively hired and serviced machine from approved suppliers. There is a small discount on franked post for no reason except to keep this pointless industry going and after a brief experiment I decided that no discount is worth the trouble.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">The first /pricefinder url gives more information about sizes: Second class 1-2kg small parcels are the best value, along with letters and a thing called a large letter which is 2.5cm thick. There's probably some way of getting a robot on the customers' computer to transfer names, postcodes, and first lines of addresses onto the online postage page but no need. You can also put pre-stamped mail in letter boxes or drop it in a sack without queing a lot of post offices. Most of them are independent franchises and capable of ignoring instructions from head office about whether to leave an open sack on your side of the counter for dropping-off mail.<br />
<br />
Tracking is only available on expensive signed-for services, so proof of posting can be important. You have to queue-up and ask for proof of postage, which the staff do for no fee by printing-out a receipt for £0 showing the destination of the parcel. If you use ebay's Paypal postage, the old Certificate of Posting system survives, which is rubber-stamped and squiggled at the counter. Staff are polite about doing this work for no money and other systems may survive for proof of posting several parcels. They used to hide blank certificate of posting forms, though, to discourage people from using them.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.postoffice.co.uk/drop-and-go-branch-service">postoffice.co.uk/drop-and-go-branch-service</a> <br />
is run by Post Office Counters and tried to integrate charging and reports into Royal Mail's web site, without success; it's still a manual system and the Royal Mail side of the firm have introduced a simlar one in competition. Anyway, shopkeepers can open an account, then then jump the queue at a post ofice branch and leave addressed parcels to have stamps stuck-on by the staff who's branch makes a small profit on them. Happy post office. May remain open. They can print form headed "manifest" on which to list postcodes and addresses for them to stamp as proof of postage. It's possible to download the form as a pdf and to made it editable so that you can cut-and paste the three columns of 2nd class / street number / address that are most used.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.royalmail.com/corporate/mail-management/outbound/collections" target="_blank">Free collections</a> at the ground floor exist for sacks, or more precisely <i>"free weekly collections for customers who spend over £15,000 a year with us"</i>. If you only send the cheapest £2.80 parcels, five days a week, 50 weeks a year, that's nearly 22 parcels a working day. Comments on message boards say that the £15,000 limit isn't strictly enforced, and of course the customers who opt of for first class or export parcels will reduce the minimum number, as will use of a specialist pick-and-pack mailing warehouse in some cheap part of the UK, or collaboration with one or two neigbouring firms to collect shared mail from the ground floor: I don't know if there's a way to make that work.<br />
<br />
Bulk customers can get small discounts for doing some of the sorting but I don't know how much that takes-away from the benefit of having a sack of mixed mail collected. They also have a long pre-computerised tradition which may still have its odd jargon or options for manual book-keeping. I don't know what a <i>"docket book"</i> is for example, but they do.<br />
<br />
Royal Mail's Europe zone is very large, including non-EU countries like Ukraine for which a customs sticker is needed and possibly a tariff paid by the recipient.</blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Neighbouring post offices that speak English - <br />
Netherlands, Ireland, Channel Islands, Isle of Mann</b></span></span></h3><hr align="LEFT" /><blockquote class="tr_bq">Anyone who writes about how Royal Mail works has to mention the Isle of Mann and Channel Islands. So why not write about a couple of bigger neighbours first? These two speak english.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.postnl.com/" title="home">Postnl.com</a> or Post.nl serves the Netherlands, a country of 16.8 million mercantile & well-educated people next to the UK's 61 million people. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_in_the_Netherlands">I think people in the main dutch towns often do business in English by default; a client's IT department is likely to accept sales contacts English</a>, with Dutch and Flemish more common at home, in the country, or when buying rather than selling. Signs at Schipol Airport are all in English. I don't live in the Netherlands and might have got this wrong, but the main postal service seems to be for 3.5cm "letterbox size" 0-2kg parcels delivered cheaply in Holland or the Benelux countries, with another zone for Europe and I think another for "world". <br />
<br />
Cash on delivery is available. That's different to the UK.<br />
Online stamping and addressing isn't obviously available. I might have missed it.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">Postnl.com own the TNT Post courier service in other countries, and briefly tried doing a door-to-door delivery round in parts of London, as well as touting for the sack collection trade under the name <a href="http://www.whistl.co.uk/">whistl.co.uk</a>. Door-to-door delivery staff were made redundant with zero warning, but UK sack collection continues with a minimum of 250 items per collection.</blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.anpost.ie/" target="_blank" title="An Post Home. In Ireland, no one delivers more">ANPost.ie</a> for the Republic of Ireland's 4.6m people is like Post.nl in using €uro & speaking english. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language" target="_blank">Fewer Irish people speak other languages than in most countries of the world I guess, but politicians have diverted resources from social insurance, including education and health, into making sure that, should people suddenly start speaking Gaelic all at once in the future, pubic services will be ready for them</a>. That's the sort of thing that politicians do with your social insurance payments if you don't watch the bastards. Signs at Dublin Airport are in Gaelic and English, as at <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_West_Airport_Knock">Knock</a> airport, where you can go to see the miracle of priests evading prosecution for false statements or worse. It's a great place to visit in other ways though: living there is the problem and unfortunately, UK politicians are picking-up these tricks just as Irish ones try to get rid of them.<br />
<br />
ANPost collects sacks from senders of 30 parcels a more a week outside Dublin - and an unstated amount inside - and from post offices and letter boxes in the southern Irish counties. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Post" target="_blank">wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Post</a> says that collection services outside the republic have been sold-off.<br />
<a href="http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/PostalRates/Standard+Post.htm">ANPost delivery price zones are Ireland - north is the same price, GB, Europe, World</a>.<br />
ANPost addressing guide is at <a href="http://correctaddress.anpost.ie/">http://correctaddress.anpost.ie</a><br />
There is no online address and stamp printing service, but large customers can use a machine for printing normal-looking stamps and a database of addresses can be hired.<br />
The pointless franking industry survives in Ireland as in the UK, with small discounts and perhaps some purpose for the bulk mailers.<br />
<br />
Just recently I had a parcel returned as insuffiently addressed to putting two lines together and ommitting the new postcode; I don't know which triggured the return, but they now use postcodes slightly longer than the UK ones, so best to check from their site what's happening. It will suggest a printed format in roman letters that's hard to cut and paste into your own software, but there is bound to be a way.<br />
<br />
I don't think they've got up to the UK / Canada pattern of six letters and numbers. Counties are named after the county town, so you can leave out "County Limerick" if the town is "Limerick".<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18175986">The Channel Islands</a>' 164,000 people use UK currency in three independent EU states, sharing some services like embassies with the UK. They do not have a Channel Islands postal service. They have two: <br />
<a href="https://www.guernseypost.com/" title="Guernsey Post | It's our bag">Guernseypost.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jerseypost.com/" title="Jersey Post | delivering for you">Jerseypost.com</a><br />
E-commerce is a regular business in the Channel Islands. <br />
For a while this meant that you could sell your ebay items from a Channel Islands warehouse and not pay VAT. More recenlty the state-owned Royal Mail has added a separate "sub zone" price to all mail from the UK to the Channel Islands, and all goods from the channel islands now have to pay UK VAT on entry - not just goods valued under the usual £15 threshold.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.iompost.com/" title="Isle of Man Post Office offer a range of online services">The Isle of Mann's IOMpost.com</a> is a separate post office for the 80,000 people who live there. The island has its own EU government and tax rates but shares the UK pound while its post office seems to share the same postal zones of UK, Europe, and world. Like AMPost, it offers signage in Gaelic. Letters cost less to send than from the Royal Mail; parcels more.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.post.gi/" title="HM Royal Gibraltar Post Office">Gibralter's Post.gi</a> serves 30,000 people in the EU who speak English first and have regular air deliveries of mail to the UK & US as well as land deliveries via Spain. </blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">Other neighbouring countries have english-language post office web pages and english-speaking clients, but I don't live in any of them or have any off-the-cuff knowledge to add to what you find. In Europe, the northern countries and those with coastlines are the more mercantile but have worse weather. I guess that most have a handful of world zones priced by weight and a favourite size of 2kg parcel that they like posting so much that they do it very cheaply.<br />
<br />
Oh here's a thing. The Italian post office is not yet as reliable as the others - see Time Out Guides, Rough Guide, Lonely Planet, or google phrases like "ex pat guide to life in..." for details about the Italian post office and whether it has got any better. Items I send to Italy are more often delayed than to other countries, although they turn-up in the end. An ebay seller might choose "everywhere in the EU but Italy" as a choice for where to post.<br />
<br />
I began by writing about Royal Mail and neighbouring services as though you were selling your software at a trade show in the UK. The <a href="http://www.indiapost.gov.in/SpeedPost.aspx">Indian post office</a> is further away and different in pricing for more different weights and countries. It serves a population of 1252 million. </blockquote><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;">from</span> <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes</a></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"> <span style="font-family: inherit;">&</span> <a href="http://veganline.com/parcel.htm" title="list of UK parcel courier prices"><span style="font-family: inherit;">lists UK</span> parcel courier prices</a></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">previous post: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html" title="choosing shopping cart software for ecommerce">Free Fast and Pretty - which shopping cart?</a></span> </span> </span></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com15United Kingdom55.378051 -3.4359729999999912.188302499999999 -86.05316049999999 90 79.18121450000001tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-56008174363122356522015-06-15T20:04:00.001+01:002019-11-16T11:34:15.095+00:00Free Fast and Pretty: which shopping cart?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
</h2>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related:<br />
Choosing a UK business bank account<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/setting-up-shop-with-uk-business-bank.html</a> <br />
Free, Fast and Pretty: shopping cart software for ecommerce <span style="color: red;">< this page</span><br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html</a><br />
Simple Bookkeeping and Account Agregators<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/simple-book-keeping-and-account.html</a><br />
Free Online Bookkeeping Software for Simple Accounts<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/08/free-online-book-keeping-software-for.html</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
Free Fast and Pretty - which shopping cart?</h2>
This is a note of all the shopping carts that are free & pretty, to install automatically on a site.<br />
A site the uses a database is going to take time to install and backup; it's easier if there is an installer like these. The shopping carts run on Wordpress, Joomla or Drupal, or more simply are called shopping carts and download as a single thing.<br />
- fantastico <a href="https://netenberg.com/#fantastico-scripts.html">scroll-down to E-Commerce</a> for a list of shopping carts<br />
- softulicious <a href="https://www.softaculous.com/softaculous/apps/ecommerce">Softulicious shopping carts</a><br />
- installatraon <a href="https://installatron.com/apps/ecommerce-and-business">Installatron ecommerce and business</a> apps<br />
With luck, a super-fast super-cheap hosting company will have a version of one of these three script installers free for customers to use on its control panel, ready do install shopping-cart software with a single click.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
My fast site is on a server chosen from webperf.net and test ones are on hostinger.co.uk or x10hosting.co.uk who allow 2 database sites per account. You can see what I want to change away-from at my <a href="http://veganline.com/">shoe shop</a> here.<br />
<b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Promising shopping cart software is red. I have 2 F-words & 4 P-words for whittling-down choice.<br />
Free, Fast & Pretty; Postage, Payment, & Product management are essential too.<br />
Product management sub-divides into another five points to whittle-down the shortlist.</span></b><br />
<a href="http://www.shopping-cart-migration.com/images/articles/ecommerce-shopping-carts.jpg">http://www.shopping-cart-migration.com/images/articles/ecommerce-shopping-carts.jpg</a> puts shopping cats into categories, with this category at the top - known for being free, but without hosting or customer support and known for being harder to set-up than a hosted shopping cart.<br />
<br />
There's a separate bit about hosting at the bottom titled "Hosting: Webperf.net"<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Free</span></b> </h3>
The cost is hidden in the price of modules. Open-source ought to be cheaper I guess, as well as being a prettier idea to deal with than something corporate. I don't want to pay so-much-a-month for a hosted service like Shopify or Bigcommerce. I haven't read that they're better than self-installed software; the same money could pay for developers to help you install. And if I can't pay bills, then Shopify and Bigcommerce put up a sign saying "closed". Self-hosted software can go on a slow free server like Byethost and leave me with just the cost of the domain to pay-for until business picks-up or the firm is sold or I run the firm down gracefully or my health recovers or I get back out of prison or whatever the next stage might be. (Joke: I am not in prison)<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b style="color: #cc0000;">Fast</b></h3>
Not that I know of any measurements, but Magento gets bad reviews for this compared to Prestashop (I haven't googled the others for speed tests recently that I can remember)<br />
Trying to re-check this fact with a <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=loading+speed+comparison+shopping+cart+magento+prestashop&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8">quick google</a> in July 2017, the first result puts Magento ahead in the US and Prestashop in Europe. <br />
https://blog.aheadworks.com/fastest-ecommerce-platform/<br />
So the test is not to put two similara set-ups on one server, one using Magento and one Prestashop. It is to test a number of other peoples' shops on whatever server they happen to use, and of course some firms throw money at the problem and have super-fast servers. The second test puts Prestashop behind as well with the same measuring system<br />
https://www.quanta-computing.com/best-e-commerce-platform-performance/<br />
This one is confident that on the same host, Prestashop does better and that it can work better on cheaper hosts; it's less bloated. No facts are quoted to back this up.<br />
https://www.mavenecommerce.com/blog/magento-vs-prestashop/<br />
This review seems pretty sure why PS should be faster, even if it can't explain very well<br />
https://www.go-gulf.ae/blog/magento-prestashop-comparison/<br />
This one says "small e-shops get-on very well with Prestashop" under "performance"<br />
https://community.1and1.com/comparison-of-prestashop-and-magento/<br />
This review puts Prestashop ahead, and rates some paid-for software even faster<br />
https://selfstartr.com/ecommerce-platforms/<br />
There are some videos to check and some reviews mentioning Open Cart alongside.<br />
<br />
There is a bit about hosting at the bottom of the page as well.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Pretty</b></span> </h3>
Not that I know of any measurements, but the ones with "specials" on the front page of the demonstration are always ugly for some reason.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Postage</span> = shipping</b></h3>
I want to sell in as many countries of the world as possible with cheap and greenish postage. I don't want software from a developer who says <i>"use the Fedex module, UPS, or role your own with this bit of rubbish I provide. Or search the forum in case another shopkeeper sorted this problem ten years ago for a previous version"</i>. <br />
<br />
The developers who say this are so over-paid that they don't even use the post office to buy mail-order T shirts in their native USA. Post offices are usually cheaper and greener because they have a delivery round to most letterboxes on a street rather than one in my street and another a few streets or miles away. Post offices are usually public sector and not geared to writing free plugins for Posh-o-cart. So anyone paid under a zillion pounds a year ought to know that plugins for different post offices, or to help shopkeepers write their own plugins for post offices, are essential for promoting shopping cart software.<br />
<br />
Royal Mail has 4 postal zones of UK, Europe, Airmail, and Oceana with various different services that change in price. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html" target="_blank" title="Guide to Royal Mail for shipping module developers">My next post is a guide to Royal Mail's main services for individuals & small-scale e-commrece tradin</a>g. I want to offer a simplified version that has a basic price per weight or price per weight to each of these zones, or at least to three out of the four. 2nd class to the UK. Probably standard rate to the rest of the world. This should not be much to ask but most shopping cart software fails the test - including all or most of the Wordpress plugins and including the one written in the UK I think. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/08/shipping-modules-now-exist.html" target="_blank">Here is something about Drupal shipping modules</a> and here is <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/06/introduction-to-commerce-shipping-by.html" target="_blank">something else</a> and <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/06/why-e-commerce-software-can-be-annoying.html" target="_blank">another thing</a>. The developers get carried-away thinking about US taxes while ignoring worldwide postage.<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Payment.</b></span></h3>
I want to use paypal for testing and then my merchant service provider - Elavon - for most real orders. If I get enough real orders I hope to shop-around merchcant service providers, but you can't haggle if you don't have the turnover, can you? No. We agree. And I do not want to pay a hundred pounds for the privilage of using the merchant service provider I am already signed-up to. Luckily this is getting a lot easier than it was a few years ago and some shopping carts do fit free Elavon modules.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Products.</b></span></h3>
If the top few points are OK then I'll play with the site and see if it can tell me things I want to know about stock, like <br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> whether an advert helped a product sell. Remote-hosted checkout forms are bad for this - they confuse the tracking code. <br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> whether a product has run-out. <br />
If my software refuses to sell a sold-out product, then maybe it can automatically charge a customer at each purchase and save me a job.<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> when to re-order. This can only be a prompt, but still a useful one and I'm not sure how subtle the different stock control systems are or how to use them. Maybe they're add-ons. One version of Prestashop can even remember where a product is usually found in the warehouse and write that on a picking sheet. I don't know if that's the free version.<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> I'll have to learn the system for attributes = sizes as well. Some programs track a shoe as something that can be adapted to different sizes, as though these were like different sorts of laces. Others track a shoe as a range of several different products, one for each size, but sharing a supplier. I'll learn as I go. Presumably most software offers both options as a shoe in one size definately can't be re-sized to another, even with a broom handle and lots of leverage.<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> I want to search for products in several ways - whether my shoes are made in a democratic welfare state for example, or how well that country scores on a democracy index. Some shopping carts just have a tag for brand which they mis-label "manufacturer".<br />
<br />
Afterthoughts:<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> I want any blogs and other bits to be part of the same web site if possible, as Drupal allows and possibly carts that can be slotted-in to other sites. Perhaps Cubecart.<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦</span> I want to have a wholesale shop and maybe some others using the same software and looking different to the end-customer, while a supplier might want to share my shop so it looks the same to the end-customer but stuff is sent from another place. So carts with the word "multi" in them would be good.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.avactis.com/pricing/">Avactis.com/pricing/</a></h3>
Not quite open source?<br />
Paid-for version has a bundle of modules including language translation and a "custom" mobile version.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;">Abantecart</span></h3>
<a href="http://www.abantecart.com/shopping-cart-demo">http://www.abantecart.com/shopping-cart-demo</a><br />
promising<br />
http://www.abantecart.com/ecommerce-documentation/admin-user-manual/specific-manuals/stock-processing-configurations suggests it can track stock of each variation of a product. My problem is uptdating it. Two trial installations have both got stuck updataing from version X to version X+1.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Allegrocart</b></h3>
<a href="http://www.alegrocart.com/demo/">Alegrocart.com/demo</a><br />
Ugly. The developer is also a car and car parts dealer in Canada, so the program should be well set-up for that trade.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Agoracart</b></h3>
<a href="http://www.agoracart.com/demos.htm">Agoracart.com/demos.htm</a><br />
Unusual in being based on perl rather than php. Long established. Available through one of my web host accounts on a special menu for Perl scripts, but not on the other. Ugly.. Is it fast? I have not tested the thing or installed.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Axis</b></h3>
Part of a hugely corporate suite of programs sold from Amercia. This software is presented as open source. It installs OK from a script installer but I haven't found the admin logon to test it at all. I haven't found a demo site.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>CS cart</b></h3>
<a href="http://www.cs-cart.com/demo-item.html">Cs-cart.com/demo-item.html</a><br />
Fast and pretty with smooth back-end data for shopkeepers, it says of itself.<br />
One installer doesn't include it.<br />
One installer includes it, but when I try to install I get "licencing mode"; the program doesn't seem to be open source and has a free version or a $385 version.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Cubecart</b></span></h3>
<a href="https://www.cubecart.com/demo">Cubecart.com/demo</a><br />
Promising. More to follow. The developer pays UK tax that benefits me, and has no private equity funding, so he probably knows what a post office is. <b><i>(<a href="http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/margaret-hodge-amazon-should-be-boycotted-tax-avoidance-1447908" target="_blank">Amazon and Starbucks are loosing customers in the UK for their failure to pay tax</a>, which is great. Sod them)</i></b> Getting back to shopping carts, Canadapost and United States Postal Service have free modules. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html" target="_blank">Royal Mail </a>has to be dealt with through the all-in-one module which I have used to set-up zones.<br />
<a href="https://vimeo.com/cubecart" title="Cubecart instructions in 5 short videos">vimeo.com/cubecart</a> instructions in 5 short videos.<br />
Nifty but murky system for stock control of products which are sizes or other attrubutes of a type of product. A forum post suggests that the minimum and maximum stock levels show on the front of the site.<br />
I haven't yet found-out how to get a table display of stock of each size of each product. As with most ecommerce systems, the forum has a small membership but can provide good answers.<br />
<br />
As I write the new open source version of this product has just been updated to include cache modules for speed of download and so higher search engine rankings and easier buying for visitors. So this is an up-and-coming version of a long established product.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Drupal Commerce</b></h3>
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/">http://demo.commerceguys.com/</a><br />
You can now install Drupal from something like Installatron and the instructions for adding shopping cart modules are getting better. I tried Ubercart in about 2012.. It needed a shipping module. At that point the developers left, so there is still no shipping module. The developers wrote Drupal Commerce, which has <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/taxonomy/term/2561" target="_blank">neither a good Royal Mail shipping module</a> nor a way of connecting products on the admin database to products on the front-end. You have to enter them twice or install some kind of module for doing it. I tried it in 2013-14. The customers are exepected to be developers and the support takes the form of videos by people who don't say how they have set-up their demonstration before the video started, so you can follow it to the letter and find that your lack of something-or-other stops it working for you. You can see transcripts of the videos and links to them as earlier posts on this blog. Commerce Guys, developers, have received $7.3bn of private equity finance so they haven't heard of the post office except as a potential client - they haven't heard of it as a place where you post parcels. A pity because at first glance they look good people to write free software. It's just the way they're set-up that doesn't suit open source shopping carts for small business, and not enough people have found a way to jump-in and fill the gap of writing software cheaply or for free to help small shopkeepers on Drupal. My next post <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html</a> might encourage.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Magento</b></h3>
<a href="http://magento.com/explore/demo">Magento.com/explore/demo</a><br />
Slow. Reviews state that the extra features are at the expense of a multi-layered slow database structure.<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/01/building-awesome-e-commerce-site-in-25.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/01/building-awesome-e-commerce-site-in-25.html</a> for example<br />
A review says that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarty">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarty</a> smarty templates are hard to learn-about too.<br />
<br />
For all the money spent on this huge bundle of code, I don't see any great ease of use over other similar programs. I tried to train my Magento to recognise shoe sizes in my particular way. I even got hold of a textbook to train me in how to train Magento. On page 72 if gets difficult. I could probably have cracked it in the end and learned how to add my particular attributes to products, but I got bored of page 72 and then read reviews about bloat and slow loading.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.mals-e.com/featuresChart.php"><b>Mals-e.com/featuresChart.php</b></a></h3>
Much liked by enthusiasts including me for ten years or so because it is free and stable, but it is also a shopping cart on a remote website that allows you to write order buttons that you can stick on your web site. In other words it is limited. I want to stop using Mal's because I want to link my orders to a stock control system. I also want a stock layout system that shows a shop window of my products with order buttons next to them, in some slick way that also works on mobiles an tablets and any other format that people invent over the years, and has some of the bells and whistles like better tracking of advert performance or slick one-page checkout on the same url. I don't want to loose the ability to rabbit-on like someone who always wanted to be a journalist. This makes my site easier to index. So, ideally, I will be able to keep a lot of text on the new more formatted site.<br />
<br />
If there are ways of hosting one or two shopping carts with different urls but access to the same stock, that's unlikely to happen but worth thinking about. Mal's allows me to sell to a trade customer at 50% discount, and we would probably have met and found a way to work-around some of the limitations. It doesn't provide that trade buyer, or me, with a way of knowing what is in stock or anything like that, so it's better suited to goods I make than goods I buy in batches and sell-on.<br />
Did you know that there is a $35 program for making shop sites with stock control out of an Excel spreadsheet? It can use Mal's for checkout. <a href="http://xlecom.com/">Xlecom.com.</a> Another one called Rapidcart doesn't use Mals.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Opencart</b></h3>
<a href="http://demo.opencart.com/">demo.opencart.com</a><a href="http://demo.opencart.com/admin/index.php"><br />
demo.opencart.com/admin/index.php</a> (type "demo" in both boxes to log in)<br />
Promising at first. There is a Royal Mail module free. (post about Royal Mail <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html" target="_blank">here</a>)<br />
The installer provides an old version, but a new one can be unzipped on a hard disc, stripped of two files that have "config" in the names, and moved with a file transfer program to my server over the top of the old files.<br />
Much praised by reviewers.<br />
I've had a couple of bad days trying to make it accept stock, mock orders, categories, attributes, or shipping details - anything really. One online suggestion is that installing a module can trigger a loss of editing privilages which can be restored by ticking various boxes. I have done so. No joy. <br />
Googling "Opencart Faults" I find a review on a site called techchattr.com that doesn't like the code. As I know nothing abut code, I rely on the review. Another on a site called websynn.com which likes the code but says it doesn't work for upgrades, which comes to the same thing. I think a free service needs to be solid because of course there's no technical support<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Thirtybees </b></span><strike style="color: #cc0000;">Prestashop</strike><span style="color: #cc0000;"> </span></h3>
<div>
<span style="color: #cc0000;"><a href="https://thirtybees.com/demo/" title="more compact than Magento and a more reliable version of Prestashop">https://thirtybees.com/demo/</a></span></div>
<br />
This is the one I went with. Search engines will find you comparisons of Thirtybees and Prestashop, and a long list of reasons why you should never stick with Prestashop if you have a choice. They remain open source but the company that employs their 4 developers employs about 180 other people, all funded by flogging modules that you wouldn't need if the thing worked in the first place. Prestashop user forums show threads years-old about problems that could be fixed with a few lines of code. And the latest Prestashop 1.7 charges you $60 for a sitemap module that was included for free in version 1.6. Even 1.6 needed a free module for you to tweak the code - such as the style sheet - from the software's own control panel, or to add blog pages. Free modules were rather hard to find among a cacophony of modules from £44 upwards that they try to flog from your own control screens on the back of the program. From a staff point of view, the main developers have left the organisation and those who still work for it give it bad reviews on glassdoor.<br /><br />Thirtybees is free, faster than Prestashop, and pretty with its new Niara theme. I might be able to use it without a single paid module, given a lot of style sheet hacks to compact the one page checkout. That's not as hard to do as it sounds; you can see how to do it on their "tips and tricks" page. Installation is easy on Softulicious or Fantastico, but not Installatron; it's worth changing hosts to get Softulicious or Fantastico if you want to experiment and make a lot of fresh installations. The software is slightly too large to install on Byethost and I don't know of free hosting that installs it easily, but it runs well on paid shared hosting that costs me £25 a year.<br />
<br />
Stripe and Paypal payment modules are available free.<br /><br />Countries are zoned, so that you can tell the software by hand that European 2kg parcels cost £10, worldwide £15 and UK (create a zone for it) £3. That's Royal Mail 2kg parcels done, without any extra module.<br />
<br />
The future looks promising. Thirtybees is run as a sideline by a few developers who make their living doing-up web sites for Thirtybees and Prestashop customers. Very good developers, you discover if they happen to help on a forum. They aim to fix every reported bug and have worked through dozens left-over from Prestashop. This is a slightly precarious way for something to keep going and they welcome donations of help or money, but it does mean that there's no payroll to fund from up-selling; no loan from venture capitalists who need a return, and it's in Thirtybees' interest to fix problems instead of leaving them broken and selling modules to cover-up the mistake.<br />
<strike><br /></strike>
<strike>http://demo.prestashop.com/en/?view=front</strike><br />
<strike>http://demo.prestashop.com/en/?view=back</strike><br />
<u><strike>Promising.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike>Reviews compare it to its rival for most-used shopping cart, Magento, calling it smaller and faster.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike>Works in different languages by default by the look of things.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike>The backend has various mottos for self-employed people and might have a lot of feedback about how products are selling and why; it's well integrated with a tracking system. I haven't tested this carefully but that's my impression. The front end is good looking too.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike>Easy to test on the yourname.pswebshop.com site, but you have to use their expensive Hipay payment system if you do that or pay over £100 to switch to Paypal. (pswebshop Service withdrawn)</strike></u><br />
<u><strike>Compulsory add-ons are expensive - over £100 each - and one review says that Prestashop's source code is written in some complicated way, so that add-ons are hard to write and are likely to remain expensive. My own experience is that they are no needed, or, for the bold, might be findable free on github for example for Worldpay but that's a bit beyond my abilities and needs. There is a free easy module for Stripe, that seems to be about the cheapest easiest card processor at 1.4% for limited companies.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike><br />
</strike></u> <u><strike>Royal Mail postage modules have briefly been introduced and then withdrawn, quoting changes in RM's price data as a reason and with hopes to re-introduce. </strike></u><br />
<u><strike><br />
</strike></u> <u><strike>Version ?7, which I am on, has introduced automatic zoning of countries so it's reasonably quick - less than a day's work - to set up Royal Mail's three zones plus the Channel islands. So far I have got stuck on this. It works in theory but prices all my parcels for delivery to Europe, even though knows they're for the UK.</strike></u><br />
<u><strike><br />
</strike></u> <u><strike>Another module provides access to label printing for RM account holders who send more than 10-12 parcels a day. </strike></u><br />
<u><strike><br />
</strike></u> <u><strike>There's a thread about postage here: </strike></u><br />
<strike><a href="https://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/345084-module-royal-mail-display-real-time-uk-royal-mail-rates-incl-a-product-page-shipping-preview/">https://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/345084-module-royal-mail-display-real-time-uk-royal-mail-rates-incl-a-product-page-shipping-preview/</a> without resolution, but I discover a £30 module that allows some kind of table quote by price or weight, so if you have the patience to work through thirty-something European countries and sixty-something zone II countries you can write your own postal rules.</strike><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Spree Commerce</b></h3>
<a href="https://spreecommerce.com/account">https://spreecommerce.com/account</a><br />
Not on the installer systems for either of my web hosts.<br />
Uses software I'm even less used-to than PHP, called Ruby.<br />
Mentioned here because used by Bonobo - site that sells $100 jeans in the USA - and their main man makes a lot of videos about the how and the why - <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Andy+Dunn%22+Bonobos&tbm=vid" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Andy+Dunn%22+Bonobos&tbm=vid </a>- so if you use Spree Commerce you are well-placed to follow his advice about how to get a picture of the product on the shopping cart to reassure the customer or whatever other idea he tells us and his video camera about. He's a bit like a private dentist. He talks in a very relaxed, re-assuring way, and ends by charging $100. I don't know how to install Spree Commerce or want to learn more about software than necessary so I haven't used it.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Tomatocart</b></h3>
<a href="http://www.tomatocart.com/products/store-demo.html">Tomatocart.com/products/store-demo.html</a><br />
Mentioned by reviewers and available on installatron.<br />
Multi-zone table-rate shipping is a freebie with a thread of comments and requests on their forum.<br />
With luck that can be adapted to <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html" target="_blank">Royal Mail</a>.<br />
Payment is not available for free via paypal or elavon. The forum has lots of comments about far-eastern payment methods but not about European ones.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Ubercart - the Drupal Add-on</b></h3>
<a href="http://www.ubercart.org/demo_livetest">Ubercart.org/demo_livetest non-working demo</a><br />
...can be installed fairly quickly by someone who is used to cutting-and-pasting the right module links into the module adding bit of a Drupal admin page. A year or so ago, the ubercart site was covered in spam and any attempts to get shipping zones easy to use for the UK looked unlikely. Now the Ubercart site is up to date and there is a Royal Mail zones module, so maybe something will come of this. My first attempt was bogged-down in attempts to classify the whole world into Royal Mail shipping zones, which are described by a different set of country names to the ISO list, on a web table that says "others" are in World Zone 1. There is now a module that claims to classify countries by Royal Mail rules. After installing it and thinking it did not work for a few weeks, I discovered that you have to tick the "User Interface" boxes to enable user interfaces of every likely module. Rules I think is the crucual one. Then a set of extra rules make themselves known when you start trying to define them for other shipping modules, starting with "country is in royal mail zone".<br />
<br />
There is also now a global shipping module that allows you to put all the the world's countries into different empires and then set prices to post to each, which is a lot better than things were, but the older tablequote module has been abandoned. As I look at message boards online, I think I may not be the only one to have trouble getting Global Shipping Module to do what I want, but it's hard to pin-down why.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Wordpress</b> </h3>
...add-ons were un-finished last time I tried them in about 2014. They were presented as free with the most basic functions like postage modules costing £50 extra, and then card processing £50 extra, and then something else again, with nothing at the end of it beyond what you can get for free on hosted shopping carts: the functions were basic. This is a quote from Jigoshop about their free postage options "allows you to set five levels of weight-based shipping fees for your products. Simply set the upper limit for each required level, with the fee for that weight range, and those fees will then be enabled. If you require more complexity or want to have shipping rates automatically updated in near real time from your shipping provider, please check out our other <a href="https://www.jigoshop.com/product-category/shipping/" title="Jigoshop Shipping Extentions">Jigoshop Shipping extensions</a>." I liked the customers - Wordpress is aimed at part timers - but not the software. I tried the traditional product from Instinct Entertainment - a wonderful name, and a new one based in the UK then woocommrece which is a fork of it. I tried these things about 2014 when there seemed to be too many wordpress shopping carts trying to make a living for too many developers. Things may have moved-on since, and the Jigoshop web site's history page says that it's run by part-timers. In contrast my last cart provideer, Mals-e commerce, provides one living to a developer, no support, no office landlord, and a solid system that doesn't break down.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="#x-cart"> <b>X-cart</b></a></h3>
<h4>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="#x-cart"></a></h4>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="#x-cart"> </a><a href="http://www.x-cart.com/shopping-cart-demo.html">http://www.x-cart.com/shopping-cart-demo.html</a><br />
<a href="http://demostore.x-cart.com/admin/admin.php?target=login">http://demostore.x-cart.com/admin/admin.php?target=login</a><br />
I wasn't sure at first whether this was open source, and how easily if could be used with Drupal. Kiril Marinkov of their sales team helped by writing this.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>X-Cart Classic(4.x) <a class="bb_autolink" href="http://www.x-cart.com/pricing.html" target="_blank">http://www.x-cart.com/pricing.html</a> and our new <br />
X-Cart 5 platform <a class="bb_autolink" href="http://www.x-cart.com/software_pricing.html" target="_blank">http://www.x-cart.com/software_pricing.html</a> are and have always been fully open code. Yes, there are encrypted modules for X-Cart Classic(4.x) created by 3-rd party developers. However for X-Cart 5 we do not accept encrypted modules of any kind to the marketplace.<br />
<br />
The core of all X-Cart 5 packages is exactly the same. Higher packages just add extra modules and thus extra features. You can use the Free package for as long as you wish, as it does not have any limitations in terms of the number products, customers or anything else. And you can, of course, add features via stand-alone free and commercial modules <a class="bb_autolink" href="http://www.x-cart.com/extensions/addons" target="_blank">http://www.x-cart.com/extensions/addons</a> or create your own: <a class="bb_autolink" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click/146178/kb.x-cart.com?p=eyJzIjoiMVZWSEpXNXB5SGZwb1hHN2hLTGN6bmo5SERNIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjoxNDYxNzgsXCJ2XCI6MSxcInVybFwiOlwiaHR0cDpcXFwvXFxcL2tiLngtY2FydC5jb21cXFwvZGlzcGxheVxcXC9YRERcXFwvRGV2ZWxvcGVyK2RvY3NcIixcImlkXCI6XCI1ODEzYjFhYWViNmU0MDEyYmY3YzgyNmExOGJhNTU2ZFwiLFwidXJsX2lkc1wiOltcIjAxZDRlMjIxNjIxOTA5YzE2YzQzOGRkY2QyYThkMTdjZTBmZjJjZjBcIl19In0" target="_blank">http://kb.x-cart.com/display/XDD/Developer+docs</a><br />
<br />
And speaking about integration with Drupal, we do have the module that lets you insert X-Cart elements straight into Drupal <a class="bb_autolink" href="http://www.x-cart.com/extensions/addons/drupal-connector.html" target="_blank">http://www.x-cart.com/extensions/addons/drupal-connector.html</a> That said, with the latest update the module has been deprecated. However if you wish, I suppose we would be able to provide you with the code base to create your own integration.<br />
<br />
If you come up with any additional questions I'll be glad to answer them.</i><b> </b></blockquote>
I find that X-cart doesn't install automatically on my fast server or my free server. There is a new one click install for my hard disk, but it has crashed two or three times trying to install itself.<br />
On the other hand, Drupal installs automatically and I've done similar installations to X-cart's before, with far worse instructions, so this is worth a try.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Zencart</b></h3>
<a href="https://www.softaculous.com/demos/Zen_Cart">https://www.softaculous.com/demos/Zen_Cart</a><br />
I've not looked at this. It's a descendant of OSCommerce apparently.<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Hosting: Webperf.net</h3>
Good hosting is another way to speed-up a site. This probably deserves a page to itself, but the only comparison page I could find for web host speed was one sponsored by the top performer that asks the others to pay for inclusion. Webperf.net . Smaller newer hosts tend to do well because they have less customers per rented server, I guess, and then when the web performance goes down they drop-out of the scheme. <br />
<br />
I worked down the list from the top, looking for a the first very cheap one. I found LChost at £50 a year plus vat and domain, but they have dropped-off the webperf testing site since. These are some jottings<br />
<br />
<div dir="ltr" id="docs-internal-guid-df25b84d-8d77-efae-b5a4-077deef1a982" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Netcetera £36 ? VAT 5/80 GB ten and a bit. </span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><a href="http://www.webhostchat.co.uk/general-chit-chat-discussion/16175-speed-test-2.html" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">http://www.webhostchat.co.uk/general-chit-chat-discussion/16175-speed-test-2.html</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> says ignore number one in the charts - it’s a rigged result.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Hub Network Service - </span><a href="http://www.hns.net/" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">no cheap shared hosting</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> - four to six speed</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Xilo - </span><a href="https://www.xilo.net/shared_web_hosting/" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">cheap hosting page is a blank white screen</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> - </span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Good1 - </span><a href="https://www.xilo.net/shared_web_hosting/" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">four to five nearly six</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> - you have to ask them for a price - hobbyist</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Fluent.ltd.uk - - £120 a year for a small web site - four and a bit to five and a bit speed - telehouse</span></div>
<br />
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">LChost were</span><a href="http://www.webperf.net/perfdetail.cgi?sutid=909;month=227" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;"> three and a bit till November 2016</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> then kaput . Don't use them for domain hosting as well as web hosting in case they block-out the bit of cpanel that lets you move your domain to another provider. If you get into this situation, Penguin-uk.net are good at extracting the domain name.</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Fido.net 5/2/5 £59 </span><a href="http://www.webperf.net/perfdetail.cgi?sutid=1568;month=233" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">five and a bit speed</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> recently</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "arial"; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><br />
<hr left="" />
My next post is a <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html" target="_blank">tourist guide to Royal Mail for e-commrece developers who don't live in the UK and don't know the basic services </a><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://veganline.com/">Veganline.com for vegan boots made in the UK</a></h3>
Vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK: not shoe shop shopping cart software, but the shoe shop of someone who wrote this blog because bad at choosing it<br />
<hr left="" />
John Robertson sells <a href="http://veganline.com/" target="_blank" title="Vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK - online since 1998">vegan shoes boots belts and jackets online at Veganline.com</a>. Feel free to share with the social sharing buttons below <br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="more"></a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com36tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-25575775764778073052015-01-24T19:45:00.003+00:002018-10-19T15:01:17.880+01:00Garamond open source font for ink saving - fails a quick standard test<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<link href="http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=EB+Garamond" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"></link>
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><b><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">Does it work for printing paypal payment emails? </span></span></b></span></div>
<span font-family:="garamond=">
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><b><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">Garamond fails this quick standard test in HP lazerjet draft mode, but so do other fonts.</span></span></b></span><br />
</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">This is a slightly daft post because I'm not sure how to specify an unusual font on blogspot. If the typeface looks like something out of a 1930s american magazine, that's Garamond, otherwise not. Never mind. The source code for specifying a font works for a bit but tangles-up after a few edits.<br />The other font links above make more sense.</span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Anyway I get paypal emails that are a very good practical test of one use for a font. They say:</span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;">"someone has bought your item and the address somewhere down the blurb is<br />name<br />street numberbla bla bla bla<br />bla bla<br />postcode or zip code<br />bla bla the email carries on, and 12pt font shows<br />what paid and what for on the same page"</span></span></blockquote>
<span font-family:="garamond">
</span>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">These verbose emails are a good source of customer's delivery addresses in a format you can bung inside a used window envelope and send without re-typing. If you want to avoid editing, then you need about 12pt type to get the payment amount on the same side of paper.</span></span></blockquote>
<span font-family:="garamond">
<span style="font-family: garamond;"></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><a href="https://kadavy.net/blog/posts/design-for-hackers-why-you-dont-use-garamond-on-the-web/">Garamond does not work well on screen at 12pt.</a> Click the link & control+F to "the reason" to see the reason why. I have not read what the link says but it looks plausible.. Larger than 12pt it is still hard to read, and the email needs editing to get the vital payment amount and address onto one side of paper.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;">Garamond does not print well on HP lazerjet draft mode - that is in grey at 300 dpi. I can hardly read it at 12pt. The chances of it workng as well as OCRB for optical character recognition at a sorting office look low. This is a pity, because I thought while writing previous posts that Garamond provided was the best balance between ink costs and readabiliy. Now I think that if an ebay sale is to be trusted to the </span><br />
</span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><span font-family:="garamond">
<li><span style="font-family: garamond;">scanners at the post office to recognise the right address and get it the right postie quickly without delay and human error </span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: garamond;">posties to poke it through the right letterbox...</span></li>
</span></ul>
<span font-family:="garamond">
<span style="font-family: garamond;"></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;">...then spindly type in barely legible grey is not the answer. Never mind.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: garamond;">Maybe there is some way of setting email software to display paypal emails in a certain way. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;">Infinate wisdom will be available on this blog some time, if not quite yet.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: garamond;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: garamond;">Oh this last bit is just about getting hold of Garamond font for free.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: garamond;">You may well have Garamond as one of your bundle of fonts that is
somehow on your computer. If not, google an open source version which
exists and copy the unzipped download files to your fonts folder. To
find the fonts folder, search your disk for .ttf of .o ... no I've
forgotten the second one, but those are the two file name endings most
used for font files which are vector graphics of the extended alphabet
in whatever font. There's also a way of getting google's online version which I've tried to use on this document while somehow stripping-out the line breaks</span></span><br />
<br />
<br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">10 Jul 2015 17:50:19 BST | Transaction ID: 2CJ638761U323354Y </span></span><br />
<br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Dear Veganline.com,
You received a payment of £29.99 GBP from person (person<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katmellon78@gmail.com">78@example.com</a>)
Thanks for using PayPal. You can now send any items. To see all the
transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.
It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your
account.
<h3>This item is eligible for Seller Protection.</h3>Don't
forget to:- Send the item to the delivery address below within 7 days.
Please note: items delivered in person or to a different address are not
covered by Seller Protection.
- Use a trackable proof of delivery.
Find out more about Seller Protection
Reversals:Please be aware that your payment can still be reversed, (e.g.
if it is subject to a chargeback), even after you have sent the item
to your buyer. Complying with PayPal's Seller Protection and following
the trading guidelines on our Security page helps to protect you from
things like chargebacks. </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">---------------------------------------------------------------- </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Buyer: Person Person person@example.com<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katmellon78@gmail.com"></a> </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Confirmed delivery address </span></span><br />
<br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Person Person </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">5 Street Name </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Bedford, </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Bedfordshire </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Mk41 8NX </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">United Kingdom </span></span><br />
<br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Note to seller:
The buyer hasn't sent a note.
Dispatch details:
You haven’t added any dispatch details. </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">----------------------------------- </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Purchase Details </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">----------------------------------- </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Description: </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Hozelock Cascade 1000 Koi Fish Pond Pump Water Garden Fountain Waterfall Pump , Item # 131549462810
Qty: 1
Unit Price: 26.99 GBP
Total: 26.99 GBP
Postage and packaging: 3.00 GBP
Insurance - not offered: ----
Total: 29.99 GBP
Payment: 29.99 GBP
Payment sent to: person@example.com<br />---------------------------------------------------------------- </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Questions? </span></span><br />
<span font-family:="garamond"><span style="font-family: garamond;">Go to the Help Centre at: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="https://www.paypal.com/uk/help">www.paypal.com/uk/help</a>.
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal
account and click Help in the top right corner of any PayPal page.
You can choose to receive plain text emails instead of HTML emails. To
change your Notifications preferences, log in to your PayPal account at <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="https://www.paypal.co.uk/">www.paypal.co.uk</a>, go to your Profile and click My account settings.
Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Registered Office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
PPID PP753 - a20ae04a6da8
</span></span></div>
<br /></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com17tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-1635414118433223332015-01-11T16:02:00.018+00:002018-10-21T10:23:42.934+01:00Ink coverage for 300 fonts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">For printer running costs and fonts see also <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html" title="list of ink-saving software utilities and paper-saving software reviewed and compared"><br />
</a><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>I have some other posts about ink-saving and how to save paper with different layouts.<br />
<ul><li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/</a><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html" title="how to measure ink coverage or toner coverage of a document or a font for ink saving">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html </a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html" title="Printer.com's original test: Does Font Choice Make a Difference to ink saving?">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html" title="Ink coverage and economy of 100 fonts compared">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html<span style="color: red;"><b><<< this page</b></span></a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" title="where and how to buy cheap A4 office copy paper in the UK">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html</a><b> </b></li>
</ul></fieldset><span style="font-size: x-small;"></span></blockquote><ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><a name='more'></a><a href="https://www.inkfarm.com/font_coverage.php">Inkfarm.com/font_coverage.php</a> is a good compilation of ink coverage by font, with slightly different results to the few tests on fonts for ink usage and printer running costs that I've done at the bottom of this page. This is useful stuff to know if your'e interested in printer running costs. Other tests from <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html">Printer.com</a> or Which Magazine seem to contradict as well - it's not just mine and inkfarm's that are different. I've copied inkfarm's results order or lightness, then in alphabetical order, getting figures from their source code. So far as I can see, they have taken a set of fonts from their operating system and tried to add which font exactly is being used so they've added descriptions like EF, ITC, MT, FB, or LT.<br />
For some of the fonts I have got around to linking with a site that shows a large preview - AZfonts - or a wikipedia entry or even the company that produced the font.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.fontshop.com/foundries/elsner-flake">EF = Elsner + Flake</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsner+Flake">Wiki</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">FZ = Fantazia Fonts <a href="http://luc.devroy.org/">luc.devroy.org</a></span><br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Typeface_Corporation">ITC= International Typeface Corporation</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Typeface_Corporation">Wiki</a></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Typeface_Corporation"> </a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.monotype.com/">MT = Monotype Corporation</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotype_Imaging">Wiki</a> </span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://www.monotype.com/"> </a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://www.fontbureau.com/">FB = Font Bureau</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_Bureau">Wiki</a></span> <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https//www.linotype.com/">LT = Linotype</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mergenthaler_Linotype_Company#Typefaces">Wiki</a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">This list mixes types of font. Calibri is sans-serif, and so slightly harder to read as printed body text. Inkfarm's <a href="https://www.inkfarm.com/Recommended-Ink-Saving-Fonts---">own recommendation for readability</a> according to standard rules of thumb is </span></span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Baskerville Old Face, which comes in a <a href="https://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/open-baskerville">free open source version</a>. One way of getting a copy is to download and open the zip file, then cut and past to the windows/fonts folder if all the relevant background is in place.</span><br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 1.2500 HighEmotions [numeric only]<br />
1.3400 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/families/palace-script-mt.html">Palace Script MT</a><br />
1.3800 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/bernhardfashion-bt.html">Bernhard EF Fashion</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?68X">Identifont</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lucian_Bernhard">Wiki</a> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 1.5900 <a href="https://www.azfonts.ru/load_font/kunstle0.html">Kunstler Script</a><br />
1.7900 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/parchment-mf.html">Parchment</a></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="https://www.azfonts.ru/load_font/parchm.html">or</a></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 2.1700 <a href="https://www.dafont.com/lukefont.font">Luke</a><br />
2.2600 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/adonis.html">ADONIS</a><br />
2.2600 <a href="https://www.azfonts.ru/load_font/calibri.html">Calibri</a> (<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20150118124322/http://answers.microsoft.com/static/html/error.html?aspxerrorpath=/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-word/calibri-body-2010-version/44629463-2cc3-42dc-b997-1e0c15fd6c82">Body</a>)<br />
2.4100 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/bickleyscriptplain.html">Binkley</a><br />
2.4200 Miles<br />
2.4500 Devon<br />
2.4700 Edwardian Script ITC</span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Benguiat">Wiki</a></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 2.6000 WishingType</span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 2.6500 French Script MT no sample <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Type_Foundry">Wiki</a><br />
2.6800 Huntson<br />
2.7700 Feliz</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 2.7700 Feliz</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 2.8000 English Script EF<br />
2.8700 Charlee<br />
2.9200 Benjamin<br />
2.9300 Sabina<br />
2.9700 Melted Text</span> </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.0200 Betsy<br />
3.0200 <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/itc/itc-bradley-hand">Bradley Hand ITC</a> <br />
3.0700 Chiller</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.1300 Vladimir Script</span></span></span> <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?A8S">Identifont</a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.1700 Maxell<br />
3.2000 Freestyle Script<br />
3.2000 Kartika<br />
3.2500 KingsFont<br />
3.2600 Eras Light ITC<br />
3.2900 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/monotype-corsiva.html">Monotype Corsiva</a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.2900 Zapf Chancery</span></span> Identifont <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITC_Zapf_Chancery">Wiki</a> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.3100 Maximo<br />
3.3800 PaintStroke</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 3.4700 <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/international-typefounders-inc/vivaldi">Vivaldi</a></span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span> 3.8100 FlairRoman<br />
3.8700 Informal Roman<br />
3.8800 Juice ITC<br />
3.9100 Blackadder ITC<br />
3.9400 Futura Lt <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/elsner-flake/ef-britannic/extra-light">Wiki</a><br />
3.9600 Perpetua Wiki<br />
4.0000 <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/elsner-flake/ef-britannic/extra-light">Britannic EF ExtraLight</a> Wiki<br />
4.0100 Felix</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 4.0200 Vrinda<br />
4.1100 WhiteWater<br />
4.3200 Stern<br />
4.4400 SmallRose<br />
4.4900 SnowWrite<br />
4.5700 Tempus Sans ITC</span> <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?3FL">Identifont</a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 4.0500 Niagara Engraved <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?4E">Identifont</a><br />
4.0800 Chong<br />
4.0900 Dakota<br />
4.1100 Kendric<br />
4.1500 Papyrus [Letraset ITC] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_%28typeface%29">Wiki</a><br />
4.1700 Macbeth<br />
4.3300 Cassandra<br />
4.3600 Colonna MT<br />
4.3900 MS Mincho<br />
4.4000 Garamond<br />
4.4300 Courier<br />
4.4300 Courier New<br />
4.5000 Bodoni MT Condensed <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?G3B">Identifont</a><br />
4.5100 Rage Italic<br />
4.5200 Pristina<br />
4.5300 Goudy Old Style<br />
4.6700 Gigi<br />
4.7300 BEll MT<br />
4.7400 Cody<br />
4.8400 AE<br />
4.8900 Bruce<br />
4.9600 Diane<br />
5.0700 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/load_font/baskerville-old-face-d.html">Baskerville Old Face</a> <a href="http://www.identifont.com/find?font=baskerville+old&q=Go">Identifont</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville">Wiki</a> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> recommended by inkfarm for legibility <br />
5.1200 Bonnie<br />
5.1300 Linea EF<br />
5.1500 Mistral</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">5.1700 Tw Cen MT Condensed</span></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.2000 <a href="http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/CalifornianFB/">Californian FB</a></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.2000 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Poor Richard <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?7OG">Identifont</a></span></span> </span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.2600 Harrington<br />
5.2700 Brush Script MT<br />
5.2900 Iris<br />
5.2900 OliveOil<br />
5.3100 Gill Sans MT Condensed <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Sans">Wiki</a><br />
5.3400 Blair</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.4000 Times (Italics)</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.4600 Agency FB<br />
5.5600 High Tower Text</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.6000 Tracy</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.6300 Bodoni MT <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?3P5">Identifont</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodoni#Foundry_type_revivals_and_variants">Wiki</a><br />
5.7100 Modern No. 20<br />
5.7300 Footlight MT Light<br />
5.7300 Niagara Solid<br />
5.7600 Celeste<br />
5.7700 Imprint MT Shadow</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.8200 Times<br />
5.8200 Times New Roman</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 5.8800 Brody<br />
5.8900 Lynn<br />
5.8900 QuickType Condensed<br />
5.8900 QuickType II Condensed<br />
5.9900 Mohammed<br />
6.0400 Bodoni MT Compressed<br />
6.0400 Onyx<br />
6.1100 Classic<br />
6.2300 PlayBill<br />
6.3100 Darnell<br />
6.3200 Chantal<br />
6.3800 Clarence<br />
6.4400 Dana<br />
6.4900 ReturnToEarth<br />
6.5300 Danny<br />
6.5500 Calibri<br />
6.5600 Book Antiqua<br />
6.5600 Palatino<br />
6.5600 Palitino Linotype<br />
6.6000 Corbel<br />
6.6200 Arial Narrow<br />
6.6200 Gloucester MT Extra Condensed<br />
6.6200 Helvetica Condensed<br />
6.6200 Helvetica-Narrow<br />
6.6400 Cambria<br />
6.6400 Cambria Math<br />
6.6700 Calisto MT<br />
6.7800 Candara<br />
6.8100 QuickType<br />
6.8100 QuickType II<br />
6.8800 Century<br />
6.8900 Maiandra GD<br />
6.9000 Franklin Gothic Book<br />
6.9300 Bria<br />
6.9900 Eras Medium ITC<br />
7.0300 Constantia <br />
7.0400 Herman<br />
7.0500 Bodoni EF<br />
7.0500 Hana<br />
7.0900 Balloon EF Drop Shadow<br />
7.1000 Century Schoolbook (Italics)<br />
7.1400 Copperplate Gothic Light<br />
7.1800 QuickType II Mono<br />
7.1800 QuickType Mono<br />
7.2500 Futura Bk <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Futura_%28typeface%29#Futura_Black">Wiki</a><br />
7.2500 Gill Sans MT <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Sans">Wiki</a><br />
7.3200 </span></span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Maxell</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 7.4800 Ecofont Vera Sans <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecofont">Wiki</a><br />
7.5300 Gill Sans MT Ext Condensed Bold <br />
7.5400 Felix Titling<br />
7.5600 Castellar <a href="http://www.identifont.com/find?font=castellar">Identifont</a><br />
7.6100 Plakata EF ExtraCondensed<br />
7.6200 OCR A Extend <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCR-A_font#OCR-A_Extended">Wiki</a><br />
7.6200 OCR-A II<br />
7.6600 Georgia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_%28typeface%29">Wiki</a><br />
7.6600 Rockwell Condensed<br />
7.6700 Bookman <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookman_%28typeface%29">Wiki</a><br />
7.6700 Bookman Old Style<br />
7.7200 Consolas <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolas">Wiki</a><br />
7.7500 Perpetua Titling MT <a href="http://www.identifont.com/find?font=Perpetua+Titling">Identifont</a><br />
7.8400 <a href="https://www.azfonts.net/families/calvin.html">Calvin</a> <br />
7.8400 Century Schoolbook <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_type_family#Century_Schoolbook">Wiki</a><br />
7.8400 <a href="https//www.linotype.com/en/1273/newcenturyschoolbook-family.html">NewCenturySchlbk</a> LT<br />
7.9200 Century Gothic (Italics)<br />
7.9800 FirstHome<br />
8.0300 Futura Md<br />
8.0400 Jackie<br />
8.1000 Arial </span></span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial">Wiki</a></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 8.1000 Estrangelo Edessa<br />
8.1000 Gautami<br />
8.1000 Helvetica<br />
8.1000 Latha<br />
8.1000 Mangal<br />
8.1000 MV Boli<br />
8.1000 Raavi <br />
8.1200 RealVirtue<br />
8.1600 Lucida Bright <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucida#Lucida_Bright">Wiki</a><br />
8.1800 AvantGarde<br />
8.1800 Century Gothic <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Gothic">Wiki</a><br />
8.1900 Feltpoint <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altsys">Wiki</a><br />
8.2200 Franklin Gothic Medium Cond<br />
8.3400 ModernArt<br />
8.3700 Britannic EF Medium<br />
8.3900 David<br />
8.4100 Akeem<br />
8.4700 Arial (Italics) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial">Wiki</a><br />
8.4700 Helvetica (Italics)<br />
8.4700 Lucida Calligraphy <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucida#Lucida_Calligraphy">Wiki</a><br />
8.4800 Arial Unicode MS<br />
8.4900 Microsoft Sans Serif<br />
8.5200 Lucida Sans <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucida#Lucida_Sans">Wiki</a><br />
8.5200 Lucida Sans Unicode <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucida#Lucida_Sans_Unicode">Wiki</a><br />
8.5400 Braddon<br />
8.5600 RoaringFire<br />
8.6300 Gatlinggun</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 8.6600 Abracadabra </span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>8.7700 Chinaone<br />
8.7800 Lucida Fax<br />
8.7900 Flippant<br />
8.8100 JustStew<br />
8.9100 Bitstream Vera Serif<br />
8.9800 Lucida Console<br />
8.9900 Harlow Solid Italic</span> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 6.1400 Tw Cen MT<br />
6.3000 WalbaumFrakturEF<br />
6.4600 Sylfaen<br />
7.1600 Segoe UI<br />
7.6500 Viner Hand ITC<br />
8.0100 Script MT Bold<br />
8.1000 Shruti<br />
8.1000 Tunga<br />
8.1500 Times (Bold Italics)<br />
8.4100 Trebuchet MS <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet_MS">Wiki</a><br />
8.6600 Abracadabra<br />
8.9800 Tahoma<br />
9.0500 Verdana (Italics)<br />
9.0500 Wired<br />
9.0600 Times (Bolded)<br />
9.2800 Verdana <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdana">Wiki</a><br />
9.9300 Tw Cen MT Condensed Extra Bold</span> <br />
9.0000 Lucida Sans Typewriter<br />
9.0300 Berlin Sans FB<br />
9.0500 OpenClassic<br />
9.1200 Comic Sans MS<br />
9.1600 Rockwell<br />
9.1800 Bitstream Vera Sans<br />
9.2000 Bitstream Vera Sans Mono<br />
9.2000 Franklin Gothic Medium<br />
9.2000 Micheal<br />
9.2800 MS Reference Sans Serif<br />
9.4000 Delaney<br />
9.4600 OCR B MT<br />
9.6900 Clowningway<br />
9.7700 Billy<br />
9.8300 PeopleStype<br />
9.8600 PlakataEFBoldCondensed</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 10.0400 FontFever<br />
10.1700 Matura MT Script Capitals<br />
10.2700 Franklin Gothic Demi Cond<br />
10.3000 Cambell<br />
10.3500 Griffen<br />
10.3500 Kristen ITC<br />
10.4200 Jokerman<br />
10.4300 Denise<br />
10.4300 Lincoln<br />
10.7000 Lucida Handwriting<br />
10.8200 Eras Demi ITC<br />
10.9700 Algerian<br />
11.0800 Forte<br />
11.2200 Haettenscweiler<br />
11.2500 Desiree<br />
11.3700 Baily<br />
11.3900 Franklin Gothic Demi<br />
11.3900 Magneto<br />
11.4100 Cityscape<br />
11.5100 Clever<br />
11.5600 Futura Hv<br />
11.7000 Arial Rounded MT Bold<br />
11.7900 Elegance<br />
11.7900 Elegance<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 11.9100 Sublime</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>11.9500 Century Schoolbook (Bold Italics)<br />
11.9900 Britannic Bold<br />
12.0500 PostBoy<br />
12.0700 BritannicEFBold<br />
12.1900 Mario<br />
12.3000 Elephant<br />
12.3100 Adriana<br />
12.4500 Bodoni MT Black<br />
12.4700 Century Schoolbook (Bolded)<br />
12.6100 LivingWell<br />
12.6500 Arial (Bold Italics)<br />
12.6500 Helvetica (Bold Italics)<br />
12.6600 Copperplate Gothic Bold <br />
12.7300 Adrian<br />
12.8300 Crash<br />
12.8300 Crash<br />
12.9000 Century Gothic (Bold Italics)<br />
12.9200 Berlin Sans FB Demi<br />
12.9500 Century Gothic (Bolded)<br />
12.9800 Josie<br />
12.9900 Arial (Bolded)<br />
12.9900 Helvetica (Bolded)<br />
13.1100 Action<br />
13.1100 Action<br />
13.1700 Bump<br />
13.2700 Bauhaus 93<br />
13.2700 BlippoBlackEF<br />
13.3600 Engravers MT<br />
14.0600 Bernard MT Condensed<br />
14.2900 Genuine<br />
14.6100 Franklin Gothic Heavy</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 14.8100 VerticalSmudge</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 14.8300 Junior<br />
14.8400 Destine<br />
14.9600 Eras Bold ITC<br />
15.1100 BritannicEFUltra<br />
15.2600 Broadway<br />
15.5200 Cooper Black<br />
15.5300 BalloonEFExtraBold<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
15.8200 Verdana (Bold Italics)<br />
15.8600 Verdana (Bolded)</span> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 16.0600 Gill Sans Ultra Bold Condensed<br />
16.5700 Arial Black<br />
16.7800 James<br />
16.8000 Counter</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 17.3900 Design</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 17.0400 Stencil</span> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 17.6100 Impact</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> </span>17.9100 Snap ITC</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 18.3400 Killian<br />
18.5600 Rockwell Extra Bold<br />
18.9600 MarketPro</span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
21.3600 Goudy Stout</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 21.4200 Wide Latin</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 22.6400 Ravie<br />
23.6700 Gill Sans Ultra Bold</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> 25.8400 Showcard Gothic</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">================================================================= </span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <br />
13.1100 Action <br />
13.1100 Action <br />
2.2600 ADONIS <br />
12.7300 Adrian <br />
12.3100 Adriana <br />
4.8400 AE <br />
5.4600 Agency FB <br />
8.4100 Akeem <br />
10.9700 Algerian <br />
8.1000 Arial <br />
12.6500 Arial (Bold Italics) <br />
12.9900 Arial (Bolded) <br />
8.4700 Arial (Italics) <br />
16.5700 Arial Black <br />
6.6200 Arial Narrow <br />
11.7000 Arial Rounded MT Bold <br />
8.4800 Arial Unicode MS <br />
8.1800 AvantGarde <br />
11.3700 Baily <br />
7.0900 BalloonEFDropShadow <br />
15.5300 BalloonEFExtraBold <br />
5.0700 Baskerville Old Face <br />
13.2700 Bauhaus 93 <br />
4.7300 BEll MT <br />
2.9200 Benjamin <br />
9.0300 Berlin Sans FB <br />
12.9200 Berlin Sans FB Demi <br />
14.0600 Bernard MT Condensed <br />
1.3800 BernhardEFFashion <br />
3.0200 Betsy <br />
9.7700 Billy <br />
9.1800 Bitstream Vera Sans <br />
9.2000 Bitstream Vera Sans Mono <br />
8.9100 Bitstream Vera Serif <br />
3.9100 Blackadder ITC <br />
5.3400 Blair <br />
13.2700 BlippoBlackEF <br />
5.6300 Bodoni MT <br />
12.4500 Bodoni MT Black <br />
6.0400 Bodoni MT Compressed <br />
4.5000 Bodoni MT Condenced <br />
7.0500 BodoniEF <br />
5.1200 Bonnie <br />
6.5600 Book Antiqua <br />
7.6700 Bookman <br />
7.6700 Bookman Old Style <br />
8.5400 Braddon <br />
3.0200 Bradley Hand ITC <br />
6.9300 Bria <br />
2.4100 Brinkley <br />
11.9900 Britannic Bold <br />
12.0700 BritannicEFBold <br />
4.0000 BritannicEFExtraLight <br />
8.3700 BritannicEFMedium <br />
15.1100 BritannicEFUltra <br />
15.2600 Broadway <br />
5.8800 Brody <br />
4.8900 Bruce <br />
5.2700 Brush Script MT <br />
13.1700 Bump <br />
6.5500 Calibri <br />
2.2600 Calibri (Body) <br />
5.2000 <a href="http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/CalifornianFB/">Californian FB</a> <br />
6.6700 Calisto MT <br />
7.8400 Calvin <br />
10.3000 Cambell <br />
6.6400 Cambria <br />
6.6400 Cambria Math <br />
6.7800 Candara <br />
4.3300 Cassandra <br />
7.5600 Castellar <br />
5.7600 Celeste <br />
6.8800 Century <br />
8.1800 Century Gothic <br />
12.9000 Century Gothic (Bold Italics) <br />
12.9500 Century Gothic (Bolded) <br />
7.9200 Century Gothic (Italics) <br />
7.8400 Century Schoolbook <br />
11.9500 Century Schoolbook (Bold Italics) <br />
12.4700 Century Schoolbook (Bolded) <br />
7.1000 Century Schoolbook (Italics) <br />
6.3200 Chantal <br />
2.8700 Charlee <br />
3.0700 Chiller <br />
8.7700 Chinaone <br />
4.0800 Chong <br />
11.4100 Cityscape <br />
6.3800 Clarence <br />
6.1100 Classic <br />
11.5100 Clever <br />
9.6900 Clowningway <br />
4.7400 Cody <br />
4.3600 Colonna MT <br />
9.1200 Comic Sans MS <br />
7.7200 Consolas <br />
7.0300 Constantia <br />
15.5200 Cooper Black <br />
12.6600 Copperplate Gothic Bold <br />
7.1400 Copperplate Gothic Light <br />
6.6000 Corbel <br />
16.8000 Counter <br />
4.4300 Courier <br />
4.4300 Courier New <br />
12.8300 Crash <br />
12.8300 Crash <br />
4.0900 Dakota <br />
6.4400 Dana <br />
6.5300 Danny <br />
6.3100 Darnell <br />
8.3900 David <br />
9.4000 Delaney <br />
10.4300 Denise <br />
17.3900 Design <br />
11.2500 Desiree <br />
14.8400 Destine <br />
2.4500 Devon <br />
4.9600 Diane <br />
7.4800 Ecofont Vera Sans <br />
2.4700 Edwardian Script ITC <br />
11.7900 Elegance <br />
11.7900 Elegance <br />
12.3000 Elephant <br />
2.8000 EnglishScriptEF <br />
13.3600 Engravers MT <br />
14.9600 Eras Bold ITC <br />
10.8200 Eras Demi ITC <br />
3.2600 Eras Light ITC <br />
6.9900 Eras Medium ITC <br />
8.1000 Estrangelo Edessa <br />
4.0100 Felix <br />
7.5400 Felix Titling <br />
2.7700 Feliz <br />
2.7700 Feliz <br />
8.1900 Feltpoint <br />
7.9800 FirstHome <br />
3.8100 FlairRoman <br />
8.7900 Flippant <br />
10.0400 FontFever <br />
5.7300 Footlight MT Light <br />
11.0800 Forte <br />
6.9000 Franklin Gothic Book <br />
11.3900 Franklin Gothic Demi <br />
10.2700 Franklin Gothic Demi Cond <br />
14.6100 Franklin Gothic Heavy <br />
9.2000 Franklin Gothic Medium <br />
8.2200 Franklin Gothic Medium Cond <br />
3.2000 Freestyle Script <br />
2.6500 French Script MT <br />
7.2500 Futura Bk <br />
11.5600 Futura Hv <br />
3.9400 Futura Lt <br />
8.0300 Futura Md <br />
4.4000 Garamond <br />
8.6300 Gatlinggun <br />
8.1000 Gautami <br />
14.2900 Genuine <br />
7.6600 Georgia <br />
4.6700 Gigi <br />
7.2500 Gill Sans MT <br />
5.3100 Gill Sans MT Condensed <br />
7.5300 Gill Sans MT Ext Condensed Bold <br />
23.6700 Gill Sans Ultra Bold <br />
16.0600 Gill Sans Ultra Bold Condensed <br />
6.6200 Gloucester MT Extra Condensed <br />
4.5300 Goudy Old Style <br />
21.3600 Goudy Stout <br />
10.3500 Griffen <br />
11.2200 Haettenscweiler <br />
7.0500 Hana <br />
8.9900 Harlow Solid Italic <br />
5.2600 Harrington <br />
8.1000 Helvetica <br />
12.6500 Helvetica (Bold Italics) <br />
12.9900 Helvetica (Bolded) <br />
8.4700 Helvetica (Italics) <br />
6.6200 Helvetica Condensed <br />
6.6200 Helvetica-Narrow <br />
7.0400 Herman <br />
5.5600 High Tower Text <br />
1.2500 HighEmotions <br />
2.6800 Huntson <br />
17.6100 Impact <br />
5.7700 Imprint MT Shadow <br />
3.8700 Informal Roman <br />
5.2900 Iris <br />
8.0400 Jackie <br />
16.7800 James <br />
10.4200 Jokerman <br />
12.9800 Josie <br />
3.8800 Juice ITC <br />
14.8300 Junior <br />
8.8100 JustStew <br />
3.2000 Kartika <br />
4.1100 Kendric <br />
18.3400 Killian <br />
3.2500 KingsFont <br />
10.3500 Kristen ITC <br />
1.5900 Kunstler Script <br />
8.1000 Latha <br />
10.4300 Lincoln <br />
5.1300 LineaEF <br />
12.6100 LivingWell <br />
8.1600 Lucida Bright <br />
8.4700 Lucida Calligraphy <br />
8.9800 Lucida Console <br />
8.7800 Lucida Fax <br />
10.7000 Lucida Handwriting <br />
8.5200 Lucida Sans <br />
9.0000 Lucida Sans Typewriter <br />
8.5200 Lucida Sans Unicode <br />
2.1700 Luke <br />
5.8900 Lynn <br />
4.1700 Macbeth <br />
11.3900 Magneto <br />
6.8900 Maiandra GD <br />
8.1000 Mangal <br />
12.1900 Mario <br />
18.9600 MarketPro <br />
10.1700 Matura MT Script Capitals <br />
3.1700 Maxell <br />
3.3100 Maximo <br />
2.9700 MeltedText <br />
9.2000 Micheal <br />
8.4900 Microsoft Sans Serif <br />
2.4200 Miles <br />
5.1500 Mistral <br />
5.7100 Modern No. 20 <br />
8.3400 ModernArt <br />
5.9900 Mohammed <br />
3.2900 Monotype Corsiva <br />
4.3900 MS Mincho <br />
9.2800 MS Reference Sans Serif <br />
8.1000 MV Boli <br />
7.8400 NewCenturySchlbk <br />
4.0500 Niagara Engraved <br />
5.7300 Niagara Solid <br />
7.6200 OCR A Extend <br />
9.4600 OCR B MT <br />
7.6200 OCR-A II <br />
7.3200 Old English Text MT <br />
5.2900 OliveOil <br />
6.0400 Onyx <br />
9.0500 OpenClassic <br />
3.3800 PaintStroke <br />
1.3400 Palace Script MT <br />
6.5600 Palatino <br />
6.5600 Palitino Linotype <br />
4.1500 Papyrus <br />
1.7900 Parchment <br />
9.8300 PeopleStype <br />
3.9600 Perpetua <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetua_%28typeface%29">Wiki</a><br />
7.7500 Perpetua Titling MT <br />
9.8600 PlakataEFBoldCondensed <br />
7.6100 PlakataEFExtraCondensed <br />
6.2300 PlayBill <br />
5.2000 </span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Poor Richard <a href="http://www.identifont.com/show?7OG">Identifont</a></span> <br />
12.0500 PostBoy <br />
4.5200 Pristina <br />
6.8100 QuickType <br />
5.8900 QuickType Condensed <br />
6.8100 QuickType II <br />
5.8900 QuickType II Condensed <br />
7.1800 QuickType II Mono <br />
7.1800 QuickType Mono <br />
8.1000 Raavi <br />
4.5100 Rage Italic <br />
22.6400 Ravie <br />
8.1200 RealVirtue <br />
6.4900 ReturnToEarth <br />
8.5600 RoaringFire <br />
9.1600 Rockwell <br />
7.6600 Rockwell Condensed <br />
18.5600 Rockwell Extra Bold <br />
2.9300 Sabina <br />
8.0100 Script MT Bold <br />
7.1600 Segoe UI <br />
25.8400 Showcard Gothic <br />
8.1000 Shruti <br />
4.4400 SmallRose <br />
17.9100 Snap ITC <br />
4.4900 SnowWrite <br />
17.0400 Stencil <br />
4.3200 Stern <br />
11.9100 Sublime <br />
6.4600 Sylfaen <br />
8.9800 Tahoma <br />
4.5700 Tempus Sans ITC <br />
5.8200 Times <br />
8.1500 Times (Bold Italics) <br />
9.0600 Times (Bolded) <br />
5.4000 Times (Italics) <br />
5.8200 Times New Roman <br />
5.6000 Tracy <br />
8.4100 Trebuchet MS <br />
8.1000 Tunga <br />
6.1400 Tw Cen MT <br />
5.1700 Tw Cen MT Condensed <br />
9.9300 Tw Cen MT Condensed Extra Bold <br />
9.2800 Verdana <br />
15.8200 Verdana (Bold Italics) <br />
15.8600 Verdana (Bolded) <br />
9.0500 Verdana (Italics) <br />
14.8100 VerticalSmudge <br />
7.6500 Viner Hand ITC <br />
3.4700 Vivaldi <br />
3.1300 Vladimir Script <br />
4.0200 Vrinda <br />
6.3000 WalbaumFrakturEF <br />
4.1100 WhiteWater <br />
21.4200 Wide Latin <br />
9.0500 Wired <br />
2.6000 WishingType <br />
3.2900 ZapfChancery </span><br />
<br />
<br />
Printer running cost tests of different fonts for ink coverage<br />
<br />
These tests are separate from inkfarm and just a dabble from AZfonts previews, accessed as urls to an <a href="http://apps.pixlr.com/editor/">online photo converter</a>, downloaded as jpegs with 100% quality, then uploaded to <a href="http://lab.dejaworks.com/dev/inc-toner-consumption-calculator/">http://lab.dejaworks.com/dev/inc-toner-consumption-calculator/,</a><br />
The choice of text could make a couple of percentage points difference, with Univers above Calibri for the first text sample but below Calibri for the standard Lorem Ipsum text sample.<br />
Re-loading a sample of Helios Light that had been on the blog showed an increased ink coverage from 6.82 to 9.77 for unknown reasons.<br />
<br />
It should be possible to skip a stage: save as .png and upload to dejaworks, but the background counted as black instead of transparent so it didn't work. It should also be possible to upload from azfonts straight to the editor, but a randomised default text uploads instead of the selected one.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />06.75 Roman Hollow FZ<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi2nd8O5LLruSf5yBfkiqhIGTgDjJPcF9luhMrOiuF0ExQRceH4GinALMlXmt3VgoBlUrVY9WLV6IMbgKXeXnj4fFjdtE052kx9RELhOHd_xT0W-cn2R3mrxbhqy0KvARO_GxwMuWziptPw/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Roman Hollow font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi2nd8O5LLruSf5yBfkiqhIGTgDjJPcF9luhMrOiuF0ExQRceH4GinALMlXmt3VgoBlUrVY9WLV6IMbgKXeXnj4fFjdtE052kx9RELhOHd_xT0W-cn2R3mrxbhqy0KvARO_GxwMuWziptPw/s1600/temp.jpg" title="font: Roman Hollow FZ" /></a></div><br />
<br />
<br />
6.75 Parchment MT<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiAXBbXOySvAgYnNXtYUatI2OgF7521K2blu1oc0qvhnQBAyJsqO4OGN12T9TuSW5xceZV72ABJBRWDknO6lMr54dxS_1N3L4mwKYVwgxqYbYb-WMseiXjTrcOElc4M2xCOQfcO_BTpLn7d/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Parchment font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiAXBbXOySvAgYnNXtYUatI2OgF7521K2blu1oc0qvhnQBAyJsqO4OGN12T9TuSW5xceZV72ABJBRWDknO6lMr54dxS_1N3L4mwKYVwgxqYbYb-WMseiXjTrcOElc4M2xCOQfcO_BTpLn7d/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Parchment MT" /></a></div><br />
06.82 Helios Thin PT<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhrL__QL4Xi8YWftLsJT2YwAlTybBZHYq9Kt9FBw9G-2NRifre_nPqx-wrcjoeEclEzoCR3T-bbqTsfhtxvV3Ps0bLZ1t5IP_pzXPcwVwczKZU3n0RR5MHr94bFAba2_HCUNNDwaws2K6dO/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Helios Thin font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhrL__QL4Xi8YWftLsJT2YwAlTybBZHYq9Kt9FBw9G-2NRifre_nPqx-wrcjoeEclEzoCR3T-bbqTsfhtxvV3Ps0bLZ1t5IP_pzXPcwVwczKZU3n0RR5MHr94bFAba2_HCUNNDwaws2K6dO/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Helios Thin PT" /></a></div><br />
<br />
07.00 Eras Light ITC<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipio5Q_3h9yARSMPucofcoNd5xdvE_SjoLApNFpgoZN9lFL1XyrVpqW79RezM9di4vEMAZCWnWyo5OBaZgJKoADKi5THQ_3FAf7VP4MqMz7vlmf69BkT6vKW0x-UwWC-HEpvXF8aJuaLXI/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Eras Light font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipio5Q_3h9yARSMPucofcoNd5xdvE_SjoLApNFpgoZN9lFL1XyrVpqW79RezM9di4vEMAZCWnWyo5OBaZgJKoADKi5THQ_3FAf7VP4MqMz7vlmf69BkT6vKW0x-UwWC-HEpvXF8aJuaLXI/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Eras Light ITC" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheLmUEg4K34ppWyT3uA__LY8MWMf9vr2coqPyvcqp-kddeC-AX9sVcdtbizNh7mGZjA3r1Wn8-iJxW8RZVrZVfWgxpSeqv2a2wn5gF9NTvduZSlznNmwZDX1q90Qvz_i_5jhht9NevpUkg/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br />
</a></div><br />
08.68 Informal Roman<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYjNMMqn7QWZi3lPYnTSPWz7cVFoDGPYSIAEIZBQUU50Gahj8NheMzfrgNV9TI1gFvMgdIIeoIFTkn8cDs2Hhf8S80qZvm6Ij4lP6aPXYHtYcGxaiv1hSRziiq_wa75mfL9ceaVMAhOyRX/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of informal roman font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYjNMMqn7QWZi3lPYnTSPWz7cVFoDGPYSIAEIZBQUU50Gahj8NheMzfrgNV9TI1gFvMgdIIeoIFTkn8cDs2Hhf8S80qZvm6Ij4lP6aPXYHtYcGxaiv1hSRziiq_wa75mfL9ceaVMAhOyRX/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: informal Roman" /></a></div><br />
<br />
09.49 Garamond MT Roman<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjMO7E19ZS_fdGnrub5I76kO8BbIeqB1n1hXDFg_RTk9FxpDLSwKTjrLGJXbcGKLXY_vvDFOWYWw5A0fi6DPr7yyCbaQV28KkJFwTcmp1acWpU9xygswpWVYbbZHvPLLFt07oqJtUiIScdE/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of a Garamond font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjMO7E19ZS_fdGnrub5I76kO8BbIeqB1n1hXDFg_RTk9FxpDLSwKTjrLGJXbcGKLXY_vvDFOWYWw5A0fi6DPr7yyCbaQV28KkJFwTcmp1acWpU9xygswpWVYbbZHvPLLFt07oqJtUiIScdE/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Garamond MT" /></a></div><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
11.02 Baskerville Old Face<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlXT-L3dJi1-GqzvIYlzV8MMARKeIyHypOjgZx-PeB4gqvcXjWcvhq3y7iUmL3BPVK_sjI6_7iFkoqnjCUD_OTZeelACMG2MosiiO6N5B8eMEK5KUjjwL5so3NaqQBOHvVn_XdJ_0uS7G9/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Baskerville Old Face font used for a black coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlXT-L3dJi1-GqzvIYlzV8MMARKeIyHypOjgZx-PeB4gqvcXjWcvhq3y7iUmL3BPVK_sjI6_7iFkoqnjCUD_OTZeelACMG2MosiiO6N5B8eMEK5KUjjwL5so3NaqQBOHvVn_XdJ_0uS7G9/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Baskerville Old Face" /></a></div><br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">13.68 Calibri regular </div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9I7fLHl5wzNeTL2HZlzHbQ5GTYLwcWg9qUNE3KKEGrSDwYifukWRCbqq4C_sOkeJIweay7Bgg05jhMWUWp9nDkkyWHTIf8BDBrLTb6DiIug_fKxlRoWSEpI7BDAXgeZo0JXWW9FuiwRR5/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Callibri Regular font used for a black coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9I7fLHl5wzNeTL2HZlzHbQ5GTYLwcWg9qUNE3KKEGrSDwYifukWRCbqq4C_sOkeJIweay7Bgg05jhMWUWp9nDkkyWHTIf8BDBrLTb6DiIug_fKxlRoWSEpI7BDAXgeZo0JXWW9FuiwRR5/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Callibri Regular" /></a></div><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">12.49% Times Roman</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2bAIg2tj-Ob3ccjXGRaf-lvkscgzcNW7nJFz13bdq2RuEpiK2unjAnadfmIZ3kqps5ouZY600BYR7vtE1HqrVM2EFo8XZobJNAXnsa3_IYN1u-xyJ-JKLkPNd-9Zmr_RH-ia4BThw9J7B/s1600/times.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of a Times Roman font used for a black coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2bAIg2tj-Ob3ccjXGRaf-lvkscgzcNW7nJFz13bdq2RuEpiK2unjAnadfmIZ3kqps5ouZY600BYR7vtE1HqrVM2EFo8XZobJNAXnsa3_IYN1u-xyJ-JKLkPNd-9Zmr_RH-ia4BThw9J7B/s1600/times.jpg" title="Font: Times Roman" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">13.85 Gulliver</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6eEl-s3zQtmJVelVuwK5j7kexl4AkuMmQNsd5K_fHuNmn5bWh9ENz4HGESCFMwtMzFb6PvVQUFg0YAUr3EooaKJkO0q_SW19tBYCfem0BjinWzNCflRwUSQ50xg8BU1tNqViY-xT-DKR0/s1600/gulliver.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of a Gulliver font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6eEl-s3zQtmJVelVuwK5j7kexl4AkuMmQNsd5K_fHuNmn5bWh9ENz4HGESCFMwtMzFb6PvVQUFg0YAUr3EooaKJkO0q_SW19tBYCfem0BjinWzNCflRwUSQ50xg8BU1tNqViY-xT-DKR0/s1600/gulliver.jpg" title="Font: Gulliver" /> </a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">13.93 Univers LT regular</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimBlR48oHZwpVeRDK_tc4UqTQdMZQQK5iYmslOk3uDCmYgwZoatauP1sygthZFsQvSaGq_QcHcRCv4nO8Vxjp1erVD8ucTXKucyPAbxTZh0kFZK_5pLNfIalo5_3JXAnxFAni-U0GEwqn8/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of a Univers font used for a blackness coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimBlR48oHZwpVeRDK_tc4UqTQdMZQQK5iYmslOk3uDCmYgwZoatauP1sygthZFsQvSaGq_QcHcRCv4nO8Vxjp1erVD8ucTXKucyPAbxTZh0kFZK_5pLNfIalo5_3JXAnxFAni-U0GEwqn8/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Font: Univers LT regular" /></a> </div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">16.17 Adonis</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdmKFsi6wO3chqxT537e8m-wDlgUtErs21FyvKyT-A7oLku1CrqatCP1VAdqgv49rGKwR9fCehqIcL2bRlC0Wg5B02M1SWOV-qnya6acce8j4va-l45lmVyji9YPaoWEMRnMPjgt16g22o/s1600/adonis.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="sample of Adonis font used for an ink coverage test" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdmKFsi6wO3chqxT537e8m-wDlgUtErs21FyvKyT-A7oLku1CrqatCP1VAdqgv49rGKwR9fCehqIcL2bRlC0Wg5B02M1SWOV-qnya6acce8j4va-l45lmVyji9YPaoWEMRnMPjgt16g22o/s1600/adonis.jpg" title="Font: Adonis" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><hr align="LEFT" />This blog is by a <a href="http://veganline.com/">vegetarian shoe shop called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes boots and belts</a><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-30677655152795765452015-01-09T13:30:00.003+00:002018-11-04T15:19:37.922+00:00matched betting<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br />
notes to self <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/jul/24/free-bets-bookies">TheGuardian.com/money/2010/jul/24/free-bets-bookies</a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i></i><br />
<i>"Any Google search will bring up matched betting sites, such as <a class="u-underline" data-link-name="in body link" href="http://laymybet.co.uk/" title="">laymybet.co.uk</a> and <a class="u-underline" data-link-name="in body link" href="http://freebets4all.com/" title="">freebets4all.com</a>. They will pinpoint virtually every single free bet offer available. They also give you a list of the best qualifying bets related to the various bookmaker promotions. You are told how much to bet, which bookmaker to place the transaction with, how much to "lay" with <a class="u-underline" data-link-name="in body link" href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/earncashback.aspx?linkauth=sb6oNQ1ONH6mfpIcczQn0E7S0kZHH9qa&mpurl=betfair&moid=191072&usr=veganline" title="">Betfair</a>, and what your overall profit will be. They will also let you know if your partner can access the free bets, too."</i><br />
<i><br />"While there are different promotions available, I tended to avoid ones larger than free £50 bets– because the larger the bet, the more strings attached, such as convertibility.</i><br />
<i> </i> <br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>For example, some online sports books may offer the matched betting to only </i></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><i>new players, and only to discover there is a <span style="color: purple;">turn over of 3X or greater</span> before they can withdraw. In other cases, sports books that also promote online casinos or poker, may add terms to the matched bet whereby the </i></li>
<li><i>free bet winnings can only be converted over to other games before withdrawing. </i></li>
</ul>
<i>Thus the bookies are using this to entice new players or winback of lapsed players, and keep the money in the house by increasing the probability of losing the money in an online poker game, or in the casino, or better yet, having to turn over the money X fold on other wagers…all significantly increasing the probability you lose the free money."</i><br />
<i> </i><i>"It’s also a good idea to check the terms and conditions, because sometimes you might find hidden strings there. Keep track of all your bets, as well as all the usernames and passwords you create in a spreadsheet or a notebook."</i>One guide site puts the offers this way.<br />
<ol>
<li>Place bet and then receive a free bet</li>
<li>Place a bet and then if your bet loses, you receive another bet</li>
<li>Cash bonuses which require rolling over a certain number of times "roll over"</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
Coming back to this in 2018 I still haven't tried matched betting. At a glance on search engines, the market seems to be more clear-cut than when I first blogged, with free bets links common, arbitrage calculators occasionally available free, and anything more sophisticated paid-for at £1 for the first month and then £15-20-ish a month.<br /><br />Free odds comparison calculators are on<br /><a href="https://www.freebets4all.com/free-bets/UnitedKingdom">freebets4all.com/free-bets/UnitedKingdom</a><i> </i><strike>freebets4all.co.uk</strike>This looks the most sophisticated at a glance<br /><a href="https://www.savethestudent.org/matched-betting-calculator">Save the student</a><br /><a href="https://matchedbettingblog.com/matched-betting-calculator/#.W98Ns9v7S1s">Matched Betting Blog</a><br /><br />The paid for sites are reviewed on<br />https://www.matchedbettingsites.com - from a left menu found on "toggle menu"<br />https://comparethematchedbetting.co.uk/<br /><br />Going back a few years, the sites mentioned now charge I guess.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a class="u-underline" data-link-name="in body link" href="http://laymybet.co.uk/" title="">laymybet.co.uk</a> - closed<i></i><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.betexpertuk.co.uk/what-is-matched-betting">betexpertuk.co.uk/what-is-matched-betting</a>/ has 46 offers and<br />
<a href="http://www.betexpertuk.co.uk/existing-bookmaker-account-offers">betexpertuk.co.uk/existing-bookmaker-account-offers</a>/ - someone has taken over the old domain and transferred it to Bookieninja, a basic wordpress site and list of special offer adds<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.matchedbetting.co.uk/free-bets/">matchedbetting.co.uk/free-bets/</a>- I can't quite see what this is about<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.bet-bonuscode.co.uk/matchbook-bonus-code/">https://www.bet-bonuscode.co.uk/matchbook-bonus-code/</a> <br />
<br />
or just try search engines </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.mojeek.co.uk/search?q=%22free+bet%22">Mojeek.co.uk/search?q="free+bet"</a><br />
<a href="https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22free+bet%22&cc=gb">Bing.com/search?q="free+bet"&cc=gb</a><br />
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22free+bet%22">Google.co.uk/search?q="free+bet"</a></blockquote>
<b>Sites to know about and probably avoid</b><br />
http://www.top100bookmakers.com/rating.php - matchedbook bad on any but the biggest market; <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="color: red;">Stan James</span> bad</li>
<li><span style="color: red;">Coral</span> bad </li>
<li><span style="color: red;">Totesports</span> bad.</li>
</ul>
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/betting-sites/blacklist/ - can be set for just UK ones<br />
Reasons people dislike the sites can be reduced with this checklist<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Arbitrage can be profitable, even at UK facing bookies but you have to be selective over what you bet on.<br />
<br />
You will quickly get gubbed (account closed) if you do any of the following:<br />
A) Arb large bets on anything except soccer / tennis (e.g. NFL,NBA,NHL)<br />
B) Bet over £200 / £250 on back bets at a single UK bookie per event<br />
C) Take massive arbs (7%+) that are obvious mistakes or lines that are completely out of line
D) Contact Customer Support for any reason and have a person actually look at your bets (To say cancel a bet if you do it wrong)<br />
E) Bet on Non-UK 3rd division teams etc. (£200 on Argentinian 4th division team to win 1-0 is suicide)<br />
<br />
I have actually salvaged a couple of limited account (due to
MatchBetting and breaking rule (E) above when I was inexperienced) and
got them completely unrestricted again through sensible arbing. Other
accounts like BetFred/PaddyPower/Bet365 will in all liklehood Gub you no
matter what you do as they just hate anyone who consistently finds
value in their odds. In the case of those bookies make hay while the sun
shines IMHO.
</blockquote>
One thing you notice from the blog post is that some people try to carry-on making money from arbitrage even after the special offers run-out. Maybe they're ones who get spotted.<br />
<br />
There is less matching, if any, for bingo and roulette for reasons that are probably obvious to people who know about this stuff; it is sports and events that provide the matched bets on https://www.freebets4all.com/AutoMatcher and that leads to another point- the sites that allow bets the other way<br />
<br />
<b>Sites to know about</b><br />
https://www.freebets4all.com/AutoMatcher has a column called "exchange" which quotes<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>betfair most</li>
<li>matchbook several times a day</li>
<li>smarkets several times a day (the dark banner that's hard to read)</li>
<li>betdaq once on the day I looked (a purple banner)</li>
</ul>
Cashback on these various sites is good, with the mainstream P2P markets the best places to note at the top of a list. The Guardian article says that the free offers run-out; you can make £20 an hour for a while but then get nothing. (If the style of this reads as notes-to-self, that's because it is a set of notes to self, but written on an old post of a blog to promote <a href="http://veganline.com/">veganline.com the shop that sells vegan shoes online, mainly made in the uk</a>.)<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.oddsmonkey.com/STARTHERE/Tutorial1%E2%80%93MatchedBettingIntro.aspx">http://www.oddsmonkey.com/STARTHERE/Tutorial1%E2%80%93MatchedBettingIntro.aspx</a><br />
<br />
This one has a step-by-step guide. The first is jargon. I am on to the second about <a href="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/earncashback.aspx?linkauth=sb6oNQ1ONH6mfpIcczQn0E7S0kZHH9qa&mpurl=betfair&moid=191072&usr=veganline" target="_blank">Betfair</a>, the largest supplier of bets the other way ("lay bets" in the jargon, apparently) which isn't the cheapest but will probably have to be used. You'll notice that I post afffilate links to Betfair; if you can find some way to sign-up through a free introductory offer, that might be better. You can join the schemes - <a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/cashback/?ref=veganline" target="_blank">Topcashback </a>& <a href="http://www.quidco.com/user/18898/2213814/" target="_blank">Quidco</a> - through the links to each site below below.<br />
<br />
As someone who has written about this matched betting thing but not done it, I suppose I am a likely customer for the sites which charge fifteen pounds a month to take you through the process step by step. Their names are Oddsmonkey (premium), Profit Squirrel, and Profit Accumulator. A search for those names together will get some reviews and <a href="http://www.matchedbettingsites.com/">http://www.matchedbettingsites.com/</a> seems to do the comparisons very neatly. <br />
<br />
Where were we? Free-to-use sites for the more organised and adventurous.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.laymybet.co.uk/">Laymybet.co.uk/</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://freebets4all.com/cashback/">Freebets4all.com/cashback/</a><br />
The site has a nifty way of finding the exact bet and match on eg betfair and one of a dropdown list.<br />
<br />
The cashback sites have offers on casinos: Betfair: <a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/cashback/?ref=veganline" target="_blank">TCB</a>; Betdaq: Immutual; Smarkets; none. <br />
<a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/cashback/?ref=veganline" target="_blank">Topcashback</a> plus is a special deal for people who expect to earn more than £100 a year on its site<br />
(£5 membership + hassle of cancelling - extra 5% on earnings and quicker payouts / customer service)<br />
I don't know why my notes also list cashback site links to sports bookmakers below - why separate?<br />
<br />
Looking at the betting markets, most of the events seem to be a month or more away - like who will be president of the USA. I suppose that's an extra reason to bet on sports. There is a <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.sportinglife.com/calendar">Sportinglife.com/calendar</a> sports betting calander links to<br />
<a href="http://www.oddschecker.com/">Oddschecker.com/</a><br />
<br />
Both give an idea of what people are gambling on although I am still not sure. It says things like "wimbledon" and "Iceland v France" so I suppose a google would help.<br />
<br />
<br />
As someone who has posted this stuff online but not got-around to doing it for a year or two, I suppose I might sign-up to one of the sites that's cheap for a week and then charges £15 a month. I think they are callled <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="http://imutual.co.uk/bookmakers">Imutual.co.uk/bookmakers</a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li id="item0"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/10-bet-sports"> </a><blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
<a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/10-bet-sports"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">up to £41 cashback + 400 shares</span></a></div>
<a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/10-bet-sports"> </a><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/10-bet-sports"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><b class="title">10 Bet Sports</b></span></a><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/10-bet-sports"></a></div>
</blockquote>
</li>
<br />
<blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li id="item1"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/888-sport"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£35 cashback + 343 shares</div>
<b class="title">888 Sport</b> </div>
</a></span></li>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li id="item2"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/888games"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£17.50 cashback + 420 shares</div>
<b class="title">888games.com</b> </div>
</a></span></li>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li id="item3"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/betbrain"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
</div>
<b class="title">Betbrain</b> </div>
</a></span></li>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/betdaq">
<li id="item4"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£21 cashback + 200 shares</div>
<b class="title">Betdaq</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/betfair">
<li id="item5"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
up to £20 cashback + 300 shares</div>
<b class="title">Betfair sports</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/football-pools">
<li id="item6"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
up to £15.50 cashback + 150 shares</div>
<b class="title">Football Pools</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/ladbrokes"><br />
<li id="item7"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
</div>
<b class="title">Ladbrokes</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/mybet">
<li id="item8"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£20 cashback + 200 shares</div>
<b class="title">MyBet</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/paddy-power"><br />
<li id="item9"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£7.50 cashback + 200 shares</div>
<b class="title">Paddy Power Sportsbook</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/seaniemac">
<li class="inactive" id="item10"> <div class="holder">
<b class="title">SeanieMac</b> <b class="label">Suspended</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/smarkets">
<li id="item11"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
</div>
<b class="title">Smarkets</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/victor-chandler">
<li id="item12"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
</div>
<b class="title">Victor Chandler (VC Bet)</b> </div>
</li>
</a></span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/wannamakeabet">
</a></span>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li id="item13"><div class="holder">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/wannamakeabet"><b class="title">Wannamakeabet</b> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/wannamakeabet">
</a></span></li>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/wannamakeabet">
<br />
</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/william-hill-sport">
<li id="item14"> <div class="holder">
<div class="shares">
£20 cashback + 320 shares</div>
</div>
</li>
</a></span></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/cashback/?ref=veganline" target="_blank">Topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/</a><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bookmakers/cashback/?ref=veganline"> </a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/10bet-sports/"><span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700">10Bet Sports <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl00_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl00_lblExclusive">Exclusive</span> </span> </a> </span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Exploding onto the online sports bookmaking scene in 2003, 10Bet has quickly established itself as one of the premiere international bookmakers in the </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<table class="gecko-data-table-account-overview gecko-inline-block" id="tblCategorySearch"><tbody>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25"><td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><br />
</span></td><td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/10bet-sports/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">£10.10</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/10bet-sports/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl00_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/188bet_small.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> 188BET <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl01_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl01_lblExclusive">Exclusive</span> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Bet on sports at 188BET. View in-play markets, play bingo, blackjack, poker and slots on your iPhone, Android or tablet and earn cashback rewards. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">Up to £25.25</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/188bet/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl01_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="103"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/bet365_sm.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Bet365 <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl02_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl02_lblExclusive">Exclusive</span> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Visit Bet365 for online gambling and sports betting. Play games and bingo, poker and roulette, watch live horse racing and sport and earn cashback. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus gecko-btn-cont-small-font"><span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl02_lbllookout1">Look out for discount codes</span><br />
<span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl02_Label1">and deals</span> </span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/bet365/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl02_lblContinue1">Continue</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="103"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/betfairnew_sm.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-merchant-logo-note gecko-fasterpay">
<span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl03_lblFastPay">Faster Paying</span> </div>
</td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Betfair <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl03_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl03_lblExclusive">Exclusive</span> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Play bingo, casino games and slots at Betfair, as well as bet in-play, on your mobile or tablet on sports. Get free bets and earn cashback rewards. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">Up to £70.70</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/betfair/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl03_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/coral_sm.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Coral Sportsbook <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl04_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Bet on sport with Coral Sportsbook. Bet on football and horse racing, golf, boxing and tennis. View live scores, bet in-play and get cashback rewards. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus gecko-btn-cont-small-font"><span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl04_lbllookout1">Look out for discount codes</span><br />
<span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl04_Label1">and deals</span> </span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/coral/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl04_lblContinue1">Continue</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="103"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/ladbrokes.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Ladbrokes <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl05_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> You will be on to a winner with these great Ladbrokes cashback and voucher code deals. Ladbrokes offer bingo and casino games such as roulette and... </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">Up to £35.35</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ladbrokes/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl05_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="33"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/supercasino_lg2.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> SuperCasino <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl06_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Play live roulette, live blackjack, poker, slots and more online, on your mobile or by phone at SuperCasino. Play for top jackpots and earn cashback. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">£20.20</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/super_casino/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl06_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/victorchandler_sm.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Victor Chandler <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl07_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Visit Victor Chandler for online betting. Bet on football, cricket, rugby and horse racing, as well as casino games such as poker, and earn cashback. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus gecko-btn-cont-small-font"><span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl07_lbllookout1">Look out for discount codes</span><br />
<span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl07_Label1">and deals</span> </span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/victor-chandler/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl07_lblContinue1">Continue</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/virgingames-s.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> Virgin Games <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl08_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Virgin Games service Ltd was founded in 2004, and operates the following sites: Virgin Casino, Virgin Bingo and Virgin Poker... </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">5.05%</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin-games/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl08_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span> </td> </tr>
<tr class="gecko-table-offers-rollover-seperate" data-primarycat="25" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(233, 234, 235);"> <td class="gecko-col-logo"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-col-logo-bd">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/suppliers/williamhill.png" /> </a></span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"> </a></span> </td> <td class="gecko-col-description"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"> <span class="gecko-col-tertiary-font gecko-weight-700"> William Hill Sports Betting <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl09_lblCashback">Cashback</span> </span> <span class="gecko-col-secondary gecko-weight-700"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl09_lblExclusive">Exclusive</span> </span> </a></span> <br />
<div class="gecko-it-400 gecko-col-tertiary-font60">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Get the best live odds and free bets, whether betting on horse racing, football or golf, with William Hill Sports Betting. Bet and earn cashback. </span></div>
</td> <td class="gecko-btn-col-plus"><div class="gecko-more-info">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><img src="https://www.topcashback.co.uk/images/gecko-images/icons/info-more.png" /></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"> <span class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-plus">£15.15</span> </a> <a class="gecko-btn-cont gecko-btn-cont-primary" href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/william_hill_sports_betting/"> <span id="ctl00_GeckoTwoColPrimary_ctl09_lblCashback1">Cashback</span> </a></span></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<a href="http://www.quidco.com/sportsbook/"><br />
</a><a href="http://www.quidco.com/user/18898/2213814/" target="_blank">Quidco.com - search for their ".../sportsbook" url & heading. Joining through this link can earn you £1</a> . <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3>
<a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1269" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Betfair Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/betfair-sportsbook/"> <span style="font-size: xx-small;">Betfair Sportsbook </span></a><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> <span class="label label-faster-paying-disabled faster-paying-popover pull-right" data-content-copy="Retailers listed as Faster Paying let us pay cashback to Quidco Premium members quicker than those with Basic accounts. As a Basic member we estimate you’ll get your cashback for this retailer, on <strong>10 July</strong> compared to <strong>10 July</strong> if you were a Premium member." data-description="Faster paying badge in a merchant listing" data-original-title="" title=""> <a href="http://www.quidco.com/faster-paying-retailers/"> FASTER PAYING </a> </span> </span></h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £10 cashback <span class="exclusive">Exclusive</span></span> <br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="5931" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="5931" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="William Hill Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/william-hill-sportsbook/"> <img alt="William Hill Sportsbook" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/william-hill-sportsbook.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="5931" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="William Hill Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/william-hill-sportsbook/"> William Hill Sportsbook </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £1 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="1505" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1505" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Ladbrokes Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/ladbrokes-sportsbook/"> <img alt="Ladbrokes Sportsbook" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/ladbrokes-sportsbook.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1505" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Ladbrokes Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/ladbrokes-sportsbook/"> Ladbrokes Sportsbook </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £30 cashback <span class="exclusive">Exclusive</span></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="7836" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="7836" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="188BET Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/188bet-sportsbook/"> <img alt="188BET Sportsbook" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/188bet-sportsbook.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="7836" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="188BET Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/188bet-sportsbook/"> 188BET Sportsbook </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £10 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="9794" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="9794" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="888Sport" href="http://www.quidco.com/888sport/"> <img alt="888Sport" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/888sport.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="9794" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="888Sport" href="http://www.quidco.com/888sport/"> 888Sport </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £50 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="8967" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="8967" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Titan Bet Casino" href="http://www.quidco.com/titan-bet-casino/"> <img alt="Titan Bet Casino" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/titan-bet-casino.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="8967" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Titan Bet Casino" href="http://www.quidco.com/titan-bet-casino/"> Titan Bet Casino </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £26.50 cashback <span class="increased">Increased</span></span> </div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="11108" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="11108" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Totesport Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/totesport-sportsbook/"> <img alt="Totesport Sportsbook" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/totesport-sportsbook.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="11108" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Totesport Sportsbook" href="http://www.quidco.com/totesport-sportsbook/"> Totesport Sportsbook </a></span> </h3>
<br /></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="12993" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="12993" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Football Index" href="http://www.quidco.com/football-index/"> <img alt="Football Index" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/football-index.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="12993" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Football Index" href="http://www.quidco.com/football-index/"> Football Index </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £12 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="11104" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="11104" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Totesport Pools" href="http://www.quidco.com/totesport-pools/"> <img alt="Totesport Pools" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/totesport-pools.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="11104" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Totesport Pools" href="http://www.quidco.com/totesport-pools/"> Totesport Pools </a></span> </h3>
<br /></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="12837" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="12837" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="10Bet" href="http://www.quidco.com/10bet/"> <img alt="10Bet" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/10bet.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="12837" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="10Bet" href="http://www.quidco.com/10bet/"> 10Bet </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Up to £25 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="retailer " data-message_type_id="10164" data-pseudo_placement="merchants-list">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-logo" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="10164" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="10Bet Sports" href="http://www.quidco.com/10bet-sports/"> <img alt="10Bet Sports" class="pull-right" src="https://static.quidco.com/uploads/a/img/merchant-tn/10bet-sports.gif" /> </a></span> <br />
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-name" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="10164" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="10Bet Sports" href="http://www.quidco.com/10bet-sports/"> 10Bet Sports </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> £10 cashback </span></div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class="col-sm-4 col-sm-offset-1 hidden-xs">
<div class="retailer-list di-placement" data-cdn_backup="1" data-dedupe="1" data-fields="title, description" data-placement_group="tenancy" data-placement_id="placement-hotbox" data-placement_name="Hotbox" data-ranking="999" data-required_fields="title, description" id="placement-hotbox">
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div class="retailer di-placement-item" data-fallback="false" data-message-bonus-offer="0" data-message-id="44544" data-message-merchant-id="1505" data-message-source="booking" data-message-type="offer" id="vid-44506">
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox" data-encrypted_href="c847915f3b0f52fc26ca5da7dc63f02e732f8d2f77d4ade036e69fd4de4a2bed" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1505" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Ladbrokes Sportsbook" data-original-href="/ladbrokes-sportsbook/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=c847915f3b0f52fc26ca5da7dc63f02e732f8d2f77d4ade036e69fd4de4a2bed&service_name=click_handler&uid=1889857682fecd5dbd2.29557626&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=44544&page_name=merchants" rel="ladbrokes-sportsbook"> Ladbrokes Sportsbook </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Place your bets on the UEFA Euro 2016 games + £30 cashback </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox mixpanel-merchant-link-cta" data-encrypted_href="c847915f3b0f52fc26ca5da7dc63f02e732f8d2f77d4ade036e69fd4de4a2bed" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1505" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Ladbrokes Sportsbook" data-original-href="/ladbrokes-sportsbook/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=c847915f3b0f52fc26ca5da7dc63f02e732f8d2f77d4ade036e69fd4de4a2bed&service_name=click_handler&uid=1889857682fecd5dbd2.29557626&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=44544&page_name=merchants"> Go to the offer </a></span> </div>
<div class="retailer di-placement-item" data-fallback="false" data-message-bonus-offer="" data-message-id="124939" data-message-merchant-id="1289" data-message-source="cdn" data-message-type="offer" id="vid-124939">
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox" data-encrypted_href="f2cd86755ee96cb7e25d932d98c8f016" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1289" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Swarovski" data-original-href="/swarovski/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=f2cd86755ee96cb7e25d932d98c8f016&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898057682fed30de36.94442920&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=124939&page_name=merchants" rel="swarovski"> Swarovski </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Earn up to 8% cashback </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox mixpanel-merchant-link-cta" data-encrypted_href="f2cd86755ee96cb7e25d932d98c8f016" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="1289" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Swarovski" data-original-href="/swarovski/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=f2cd86755ee96cb7e25d932d98c8f016&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898057682fed30de36.94442920&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=124939&page_name=merchants"> Go to the offer </a></span> </div>
<div class="retailer di-placement-item" data-fallback="false" data-message-bonus-offer="" data-message-id="93157" data-message-merchant-id="10689" data-message-source="cdn" data-message-type="offer" id="vid-93157">
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox" data-encrypted_href="9158f846dad39afd697c3fb36c1724c1" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="10689" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Airconcentre" data-original-href="/airconcentre/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=9158f846dad39afd697c3fb36c1724c1&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898157682fed3109d2.71899098&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=93157&page_name=merchants" rel="airconcentre"> Airconcentre </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Earn 5% cashback </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox mixpanel-merchant-link-cta" data-encrypted_href="9158f846dad39afd697c3fb36c1724c1" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="10689" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Airconcentre" data-original-href="/airconcentre/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=9158f846dad39afd697c3fb36c1724c1&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898157682fed3109d2.71899098&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=93157&page_name=merchants"> Go to the offer </a></span> </div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class="retailer di-placement-item" data-fallback="false" data-message-bonus-offer="" data-message-id="109472" data-message-merchant-id="7261" data-message-source="cdn" data-message-type="offer" id="vid-109472">
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox" data-encrypted_href="b8e38e4cbf8c09f33b7155abca16f998" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="7261" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Stuarts London" data-original-href="/stuarts-london/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=b8e38e4cbf8c09f33b7155abca16f998&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898257682fed311da2.12424006&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=109472&page_name=merchants" rel="stuarts-london"> Stuarts London </a></span> </h3>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> Earn up to 8% cashback </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a class="mixpanel-merchant-link mixpanel-merchant-link-hotbox mixpanel-merchant-link-cta" data-encrypted_href="b8e38e4cbf8c09f33b7155abca16f998" data-mixpanel-merchant-id="7261" data-mixpanel-merchant-name="Stuarts London" data-original-href="/stuarts-london/" href="http://www.quidco.com/di2/?redirect=b8e38e4cbf8c09f33b7155abca16f998&service_name=click_handler&uid=18898257682fed311da2.12424006&link_type_id=1&message_type=offer&message_id=109472&page_name=merchants"> Go to the offer </a></span> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="adtech-placement-category-right-side">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><br />
<div class="adtech-placement hidden-xs">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<a href="http://www.imutual.co.uk/bookmakers"> <br />
</a><br />
http://www.coinrebates.com/stores - nothing shows for gambling and their offers of a few pence for surveys all end "no surveys available" after getting a bit of free information<br />
<br />
<a href="https://smarkets.com/">Smarkets.com</a>/politics/uk/ - UK - more fancy than the mainstream - 2%<br />
I- click for no money T- no Q-<br />
<a href="https://www.matchbook.com/">Matchbook</a> of Alderney charges 1% for loosing or winning. US sport and some UK?<br />
I- T- Q-<br />
<a href="https://www.betdaq.com/">Betdaq.com</a>/ - Alderny and Dublin - now merged with Ladbrooks and charge 5% of winnings<br />
I- T- Q- <br />
<a href="http://betfair.com/">Betfair.com/</a> - UK - now merged with Paddy Power and charge 5% of winnings<br />
I- T- Q-<br />
<strike><a href="https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=message">ipredict</a>.co.nz/ - NZ</strike><br />
<br />
Searching for the names together leads to <a href="http://www.matched-bet.net/glossary/betting-exchanges-like-betfair-and-smarkets/">this guide</a><br />
<br />
Software called <a href="http://www.geekstoy.com/">Geekstoy</a> is free
for Betdaq and Matchbook, but using it uses-up your free trial for
Betfair which appears to be where most of the bet matches are found, to
judge from the freebets4all site.<br />
<br />
Looking back a few months later I discover<br />
<br />
<hr />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/bitcoin-notes-in-progress.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/bitcoin-notes-in-progress.html </a></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
There are some notes in progress about bitcoin, that works for these matched betting sites and special offers</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Gambling</h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Rare to find a sign-up bonus, so there is no point except that one or two gambling sites let you take a part of their winnings if you find their bankroll.<br />
<br />
I'm not sure why I noted this list a few months ago<br />
<br />
https://www.bitcoingg.com/bitcoin-gambling/sports-betting/ (go through a link on the right to get UK compatible ones?)<br />
http://www.top100bookmakers.com/currencies/btc.php <br />
- https://www.bodog.eu/promotions link to each site's promotions page<br />
https://www.bitcoinsportsbooks.com/sports-betting-sites/ only mentions 3 btc ones<br />
- claims a 5btc exclusive bonus on their cloudbet signup link<br />
- reviews 5dimes n/a to UK<br />
https://www.cryptocompare.com/spend/#/gambling - estimates commission rates</blockquote>
<h4>
Just some early discoveries written-down </h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://fairlay.com/">Fairlay.com/</a> - US - free<br />
<a href="http://predictious.com/">Predictious.com</a>/ - Dublin - Bitcoin "prediction" - 108 sport events - <a href="https://predictious.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1222008-what-are-the-fees-on-predictious-">fees</a> - <a href="https://www.bitcoinsportsbooks.com/reviews/predictious/">OK review</a> -<a href="https://www.jetwin.ps/"><br />
Jetwin.ps</a>/us/deposit-bonus/ - $35 signup bonus or €18 for a deposit<br />
<a href="https://www.gtbets.eu/">Getbets.eu</a> now has minimum $300 withdrawal even by bitcoin. Previously in <a href="https://simonsblogpark.com/onlinegambling/simons-free-bets/">Simonblogspark </a> <br />
<a href="https://sports.betcoin.ag/">sports.Betcoin.ag</a><br />
<strike>Cloudbet - players from my juristiction are forbidden - 5BT loyalty bonus if I can find a way</strike><br />
<strike>Betmoose - same</strike><br />
<strike>Anonibet - same</strike><br />
<strike>5dimes.eu - same</strike></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com111tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-27514702877225474192015-01-09T12:20:00.004+00:002020-01-29T18:08:02.482+00:00inkjet printer costs test<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
For printer running costs and fonts see also <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html"><br />
</a><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
I have some other posts about ink-saving and how to save paper with different layouts.<br />
<ul>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/</a><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html" title="how to measure ink coverage or toner coverage of a document or a font for ink saving">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html <b><span style="color: red;"><here</span></b></a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html" title="Printer.com's original test: Does Font Choice Make a Difference to ink saving?">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html" title="Ink coverage and economy of 100 fonts compared">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" title="where and how to buy cheap A4 office copy paper in the UK">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html</a><b> </b><span style="color: red;"><b></b></span></li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
<span style="font-size: x-small;"></span></blockquote>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="more"></a>Firms like Epson test their printer costs on international standard test pages. I discover this from Computer World's <i>"how we test"</i> page, which is one of the <a href="http://www.islandinkjet.com/blog/index.php/three-online-calculators-you-can-use-to-calculate-your-printing-costs">printer running cost test sites listed on this pag</a>e from Island Inkjet. The trouble is that these calculations build-in the cost of the cartridge, rather than telling you a figure in milliliters of ink. If you're interested in price, you'll buy cheaper cartridges, or bottled ink and a pipe for a continuous inkjet supply system and you won't be so interested in how many gills in a quart make a bellyfull or whatever measurement system exists in the USA. The tests use default settings as well.<br />
<br />
A site called The Ink Factory quotes some test results of Epson's tests for colour printers, and quoted the coverage of black ink at 240 test pages per 5.1ml cartridge or 0.02125 ml of ink per page. Tests are done without cleaning cycles. Cleaning cycles are the things that flush as much ink as possible down the loo for no reason. Printer drivers also tend to revert to their default settings unless you adjust them from the printer default part of your operating system. When adjusting, there are puzzing bits. Hewlett Packard explain their <a href="http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=uk&lc=en&docname=c00381780">"ret" option here for example</a>.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ISO+printer+test+documents&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Q2-tVK61KcmQ7AbH_IEg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=827&bih=601">There are some images of ISO printer test documents here</a>. Ink Factory gives instructions for finding other test documents that come with your operating system such as Windows. Or you can pay ISO £75 to find out the precise wording of a test document or get an original copy to use.<span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;"></span><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;">An example of a big print job is for someone who wants to stand for the UK parliament in a constituency of 100,000 people, which is (?) one pallet of paper and anyway costs about £500 at 0.5p per A4 sheet. 50,000 letterboxes is common. Sending each constituent an ISO test document with 5% ink coverage could use 2.125 litres of ink, which isn't bad - possibly £106.25 or a fifth the price of the paper. I don't know if any political researcher has tried using free postage for candidates to send an ISO test document and counted the votes, but there would be a few votes cast by mistake or to encourage the underdog or in exasperation at the main candidates. <a href="http://electionleaflets.org/media/uploads/large/b95367b7ceab8df3ed3af5a1629be594.jpg">A candidate like this</a> got 84 votes <a href="http://electionleaflets.org/constituencies/richmond_park/">where I live</a> at the last election - between one or two pounds per vote in ink. There is more about <a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.co.uk/">UK elections in Richmond Park constituency</a> here.</span></blockquote>
<br />
The Inkfactory site suggests looking-up product brochures for your printer to see test results, and has a <a href="http://www.inkguides.com/printer-manual-for-hp-canon-brother-lexmark-and-more.asp">printer manual search box on their page </a>to help you track the thing down.<br />
540 pages text (ISO/IEC 10561 standard business letter pattern); <br />
378 pages graphic (? 5% coverage) <br />
...is what my old printer's brochure suggested for the orginal cartridge's 13ml of ink (note how newer cartridges are less than half the size) so 2.407 litres for the constituency. There's also the cost of wearing out the printer, which doesn't look as though it could do 100,000 sheets even with a coffee break. It was free on <a href="http://trashnothing.com/">Trashnothing.com</a> / freecycle but cost a lot of time and patience as well as a bit of travel.<br />
<br />
The next problem is how to get maximum readability for this 5% or X%, which is just a short business letter with some graphics in the international standard. One of the other posts in this blog quotes Gerard Unger, who has tought graphics and font design at a college as well as designing one or two fonts. He claims that Adobe Font Manager Pro had tested the ink coverage of his Gulliver typeface. It turns out that there other ink coverage meters with free trials, and free ones that calculate from .tiff .jpeg and some .png images of pages, so it could be possible to cost a printing job without spending any money.<br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><a href="http://www.tiff-tools.com/freeprintcoverage.aspx">http://www.tiff-tools.com/freeprintcoverage.aspx</a> is one print coverage estimator that someone released free in a fit of optimism, for .tif files only.</li>
<li><a href="http://lab.dejaworks.com/dev/inc-toner-consumption-calculator">http://lab.dejaworks.com/dev/inc-toner-consumption-calculator</a> for .jpg files, and .png without a transparent background, so not the .png files used for type display.<br />
Dejaworks measured the candidate leaflet above @ 14.1% black for A5. The <i>"strong local champion"</i> A4 letter in the same <a href="http://electionleaflets.org/constituencies/richmond_park/">Richmond on Thames constituency from electionleaflets.org</a> uses 10½% black, 5½% each of colours except for blue which only gets one and three quarter percent. <i>"No canvassing without a manifesto, please"</i> is over 5%, <i>"straight talking"</i> is over 45% ink on one side and over 95% on the other side.</li>
<li>Somone on a web forum wrote <i>"To calculate this I open the document in Photoshop (CMYK, no colour management), flatten it and apply the average blur tool, then it's just a matter of seeing the CMYK percentages."</i>.I quote that in full to save trying to understand what it means. I hope that Gimp and Getpaint.net have this function as well as the free-ish Photoshop CS2 </li>
<li><a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/tonermeter/">Toner Coverage Meter</a> measures a .jpg such as a scan. It is free and open source, from Frederico Gimanez (who also wrote a <a href="http://bachear.sourceforge.net/">free pothole tracker that works on GPS signals and an accelerometer</a>.) Both projects might want volunteer help for more development and are available as a base for your separate projects if you want.</li>
<li>Commercial printers might use one of the pre-flight features in upmarket software or standalone. There's a discussion about them here http://www.prepressure.com/design/basics/tic</li>
<li><a href="http://www.priprinter.com/">Priprinter.com</a> - a bundle of pre-press features including cost estimation, ink saving by printing thinner, deleting unwanted pages, changing margins, and saving to pdf instead of printing. Free with an acknowledgement printed on each page, or paid-for with options from $25 to $95. The program is from Pelikan Software of Hungary. <a href="http://www.priprinter.com/features.htm">http://www.priprinter.com/features.htm</a><br />
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.scribus.net/">Scribus</a>, the open source desk-top publishing program, is aimed at people who use preflight tests and the default menu has some. I don't know how to find details or adapt the program to get ink coverage onto the menu. Krita for Linux and <a href="https://inkscape.org/">Inkscape for vector graphics</a> are other open source programs for the print trade.</li>
</ul>
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i>This blog is by an <a href="http://veganline.com/">online shoe shop called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes belts & boots</a></i></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-54997493542595076752015-01-03T12:02:00.004+00:002018-10-21T10:23:48.532+01:00Printer.com : Does font choice make a difference?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div id="container" style="background-color: white;"><div class="nav2">For printer running costs and fonts see also <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>I have some other posts about ink-saving and how to save paper with different layouts.<br />
<ul><li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/</a><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html" title="how to measure ink coverage or toner coverage of a document or a font for ink saving">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html </a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html" title="Printer.com's original test: Does Font Choice Make a Difference to ink saving?">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html<b><span style="color: red;"><here</span></b></a> </li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html" title="Ink coverage and economy of 100 fonts compared">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" title="where and how to buy cheap A4 office copy paper in the UK">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html</a></li>
</ul></fieldset></blockquote><ul style="text-align: left;"></ul><b>Printer.com</b>'s 2009 test is nothing special but is sometimes referred to in <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">posts about saving ink like mine below</a>, and one of the comments on <a href="https://www.inkfarm.com/What-the-Font">https://www.inkfarm.com/What-the-Font</a> so I have reserrected it below.<br />
<b>A similar test from emerginginvestors.org studied more fonts with a more careful test, so the results of that are shown below the main printer.com ones</b><br />
<br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference" title="printer.com printer test of foint choices for ink saving">https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference</a> copied October 22nd 2012</div><div class="nav2"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/" title="Wayback Machine home page"><img alt="Wayback Machine" border="0" height="39" src="https://web.archive.org/static/images/toolbar/wayback-toolbar-logo.png" width="110" /></a><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20140515000000/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference" id="wm-graph-anchor" title="Printer.com font test for ink coverage"><img alt="Printer.com archived test : "Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference?"" border="0" height="27" id="sparklineImgId" src="https://web.archive.org/web/jsp/graph.jsp?graphdata=500_27_1996:-1:000000000000_1997:-1:000000000000_1998:-1:000000000000_1999:-1:000000000000_2000:-1:000000000000_2001:-1:000000000000_2002:-1:000000000000_2003:-1:000000000000_2004:-1:000000000000_2005:-1:000000000000_2006:-1:000000000000_2007:-1:000000000000_2008:-1:000000000000_2009:-1:000545250321_2010:-1:222825220101_2011:-1:002412222422_2012:9:632533222431_2013:-1:221121104000_2014:-1:000100000000_2015:-1:000000000000" title="Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference?" width="500" /></a> </div><div id="main" style="background-color: white;"><div id="content"><div class="post" id="post-58"><h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference/" title="Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference?"> Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference? </a></h2><div class="entry" style="background-color: white;"><div class="postmetadata" style="background-color: white;">13 April 2009 | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/category/uncategorized/" rel="category tag" title="View all posts in Uncategorized">Uncategorized</a> | bob at Printer.com</div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody>
<tr> <td width="20"><center> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://digg.com/submit?url=http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference/&title=Printing%20Costs:%20Does%20Font%20Choice%20Make%20a%20Difference?&bodytext=%20&media=NEWS&topic=business_finance" target="_blank"></a> </center></td> <td width="20"></td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> <td width="20"><br />
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table><div id="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;"></div><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.flickr.com/photos/dborman2/"><img align="left" alt="" class="alignleft" height="240" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251im_/http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/3290560161_2d6d820070_m.jpg" title="Money2 by borman818" width="193" /></a>Did you realize you can actually cut printing costs just by choosing another font? Even with everyone looking for new ways to save money, it’s doubtful most people have considered the font they use for letters, reports, and notices, but you can actually save 31% on your ink cartridge costs just by picking the right font.<br />
<br />
Printer.com recently put this notion to the test using two popular printers. The <a a="" be="" canon="" cheapest="" coverage="" font="" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://canon.printer.com/Pixma-MP-210.us.html" in="" ink="" might="" pixma="" print="" printer="" test="" the="" title-="" to="" used="" was="" what="">Canon Pixma MP 210</a> was picked to simulate the printing of private users while the <a a="" an="" brother="" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://brother.printer.com/HL-2140.us.html" in="" ink="" office="" printer="" saving="" simulate="" tile-="" to="" used="" was="">Brother HL-2140</a> laser printer was used to test business use. Both printers were left at their default settings (600 by 600 dpi). Changing only the font resulted in saving between $20 and $80 per year.<br />
<img align="right" alt="" class="alignright" height="117" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251im_/http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3436850059_5f5c640c9c_o.jpg" title="Example Century Gothic" width="229" /><br />
Arial, reigning as the most popular font, was used as the “zero” measurement, against which nine other fonts were tested. The clear winner was Century Gothic, which returned 31% savings in both printers. For the average private user, printing approximately 25 pages per week, this will easily generate a net reduction of $20 in a year. A business-user, printing approximately 250 pages per week, could save $80. If your organization uses multiple printers, you can save hundreds of dollars per year doing nothing more than picking a more economical font.<br />
Century Gothic is a modern font that comes standard with MS Windows. Surprisingly, it even beat Ecofont which was specifically designed with efficiency and cost in mind. For those who require a more “traditional” look, Times New Roman provides a good balance between style and savings.<br />
<img align="middle" alt="" class="alignnone" height="289" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251im_/http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3560/3437644464_8218a7d7d0.jpg" title="Fonts Table for saving ink" width="384" /><br />
Details of the research:<br />
• 10 frequently used fonts were selected.<br />
• The font size (10 or 11) is relative. Font size was chosen in such a way that the page filling for all fonts in the model letter was virtually the same.<br />
• To determine the coverage, the model letter is saved as PDF file. This PDF is calculated by the software pfill, which calculates the coverage of the specific font.<br />
• To determine the cost of a private user per year, the inkjet printer “Canon Pixma MP 210” was used with 25 printed pages per week.<br />
• To determine the cost of a small-business user per year, the laser printer “Brother HL-2140” was used with 250 printed pages per week.<br />
• Both Canon and Brother publish the number of printed pages with a coverage of 5%. Through interpolation, the costs have been calculated for other coverage rates if the sample letter would be printed with other fonts.<br />
• For the Canon printer, calculations are based upon a black cartridge PG-40 with a retail value of roughly $17 In case of the Brother printer calculations are based upon a black cartridge with a retail value of $30.<br />
Photo credit: <a and="" author="" cheap="" fonts="" guide="" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.flickr.com/photos/dborman2/" inksaving="" of="" printers="" the="" title-="" to="">borman818</a><br />
>> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125639616" target="_blank">Listen to an NPR report about the U of Wisconsin’s switch to Century Schoolbook (2 minutes)</a><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i>Disclaimer.<br />
The values of the Printer.com research are approximate values that are based on the model letter. Actual situations can be different. Printer.com makes no warranties or representations whatsoever with regard to any product, information or calculation provided or offered by any manufacturer, e-store or merchant; and you hereby expressly acknowledge that any reliance on any representations and warranties, whether provided in writing or otherwise, provided by any e-Store, merchant, vendor or manufacturer will be at your own risk.</i></span><br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">A similar test was done using apfill here:</span></span><br />
<a href="http://www.emerginginvestigators.org/2014/03/the-effect-of-font-type-on-a-schools-ink-cost/"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">http://www.emerginginvestigators.org/2014/03/the-effect-of-font-type-on-a-schools-ink-cost/</span></span></a><br />
The table of results is more complex than needed, but does quote more fonts than Printer.com:<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://emerginginvestigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mirchandani-Fig-4.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://emerginginvestigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mirchandani-Fig-4.jpg" /></a></div><br />
<br />
The test covered a few other points than coverage. <br />
Apfill software gave different result on a mac or a pc, and about 8% higher than a manual estimage.<br />
Test documents can be done for a specific purpose. The school test document had a lot of underlines in it because teachers use them in handouts: the character quoted after "z" is underline or underscore.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="http://emerginginvestigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mirchandani-Fig-2.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://emerginginvestigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mirchandani-Fig-2.png" height="376" width="640" /></a></div><hr align="LEFT" /><div class="comments-template"><h3 id="comments"> Printer.com's “ Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference? ” :<br />
responses</h3><ol class="commentlist"><li class="alt" id="comment-140"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Arlo </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-140" title=""> April 13th, 2009 at 8:12 pm </a> </div>You can also just change the font size or the line spacing, or the margins. <br />
Or if you’re really concerned about saving ink/toner, just stop printing.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-160"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100405185600/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/greening-your-printer" rel="external nofollow">Greening Your Printer | Printer & Ink Toner Reviews & News from Printer.com</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-160" title=""> April 20th, 2009 at 9:01 am </a> </div>[...] reminder that we all should do what we can to conserve. Saving ink by choosing a more efficient font is a good start, but it’s only the beginning. Here are five more ways you can green your [...]<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-173"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Ellen </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-173" title=""> April 26th, 2009 at 3:49 am </a> </div>Using those tiny little sans serif fonts are great for people with great vision, but perhaps not so great for older readers, and by older I mean anyone over forty. <br />
Sanserif fonts like Arial are grand for headlines, not so good for the body of the text. Sure you’ll save some money, but you’ll wear out the reader. Those little tails, the serifs, on fonts like Garamond help lead the eye along. <br />
If you’ve just printing tons of crap and you don’t think it matters if anyone reads it, then hey, use Helvetica. But if you are writing something important or worthwhile, OR, if other people are compelled to read it, then don’t make them suffer to save yourself a couple of cents. <br />
For the body of text, Arial sucks.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-176"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Brian </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-176" title=""> April 26th, 2009 at 9:07 pm </a> </div>Ellen,<br />
If you want to use a serif font, you’ll notice from the chart that Times New Roman (a serif font) handily beats out Arial in efficiency. <br />
Arial sees such widespread use primarily because it’s the default in programs like MS’s Word and Internet Explorer. But Century Gothic is far more efficient in terms of ink usage.<br />
I myself prefer Garamond as well. It’s just a friendlier font that invites the reader’s eye to peruse the page. But when efficiency counts, like for drafts and things, I think I’ll probably switch to Century Gothic. Buying all those ink cartridges really bites you in the wallet!<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-347"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> jellisii </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-347" title=""> June 7th, 2009 at 1:50 am </a> </div>Umm.. if you’re *really* thinking about saving cash, and don’t need serifs, check out <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.ecofont.eu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecofont.eu/</a><br />
They’ve taken a very plain font and punched tiny holes in all the glyphs in such a manner that it doesn’t detract from readability.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-3269"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> MGC </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-3269" title=""> November 21st, 2009 at 3:25 am </a> </div>Unbelievable!!!! Do you mean tell me, that smaller type uses less ink and is therefore less costly to print? I’m stunned, and I’m one of those older readers who’s looked at a lot words, and was earlier so rudely referred to by another contributor to as being <i>“older readers”</i>. A designer friend of mine would often tell me that, <i>“… and printing with larger type uses more ink Michael, ergo it cost’s more to print….”</i> I would laugh and call him a fool, telling him he had been over educated at his fancy education place and lost all common sense. But according to your test the joke’s on me. Now I owe somebody one rather large apology. Please excuse me.<br />
Also for your information, those little tails, stressed lines, sagging umlauts and dots at the ends of the letterforms, all mean that you’re printing in the German.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-3315"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Jennifer Woodhull </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-3315" title=""> November 22nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm </a> </div>I select all and change the color of my text to dark gray before printing drafts. It makes my ink go a lot further.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6153"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Gary Johnson </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6153" title=""> March 26th, 2010 at 4:25 pm </a> </div>Is there additional data available for more font/font sizes? I would like to see more comparisons at the same font size. Specifically Century Gothic & Ecofont at 11 against the Arial and Time Roman at 11.<br />
Thanks, Gary<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6196"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Brian </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6196" title=""> March 31st, 2010 at 3:07 pm </a> </div>There is reasonable doubt in the testing done.<br />
I too would like to see the comparisons at the same font size. Changing the font size would change the amount of ink used Until the font sizes are the same this test does not prove Century Gothic is cheaper than Arial because the fonts sizes are different.<br />
The reason for changing the fonts to 10 point vs 11 point was for filling the page. The test should be done so all words fit on one page with the exact same words for each font. This would be an accurate test to prove which font saves money.<br />
By using Arial at 10 point I might save more money than with Century Gothic, but this test doesn’t give me those numbers.<br />
With my preliminary testing I found using the same point size for Arial and Century Gothic and having lengthy text. I would use more paper with Century Gothic. The exact same text at the same point size fitting on a page with Arial would flow onto a second page with Century Gothic.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6199"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.astroskimm.com/" rel="external nofollow">kimm</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6199" title=""> March 31st, 2010 at 7:36 pm </a> </div>Brian,<br />
Do you ever use EcoFont? I am curious as to how this compares.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6201"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Brian </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6201" title=""> March 31st, 2010 at 9:41 pm </a> </div>Kimm,<br />
I don’t myself, but if you check on our table, you’ll see that even EcoFont came in second to Century Gothic.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6209"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.hvcc.edu/" rel="external nofollow">Keith Nelson</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6209" title=""> April 1st, 2010 at 3:47 pm </a> </div>I printed the same sentence in six different fonts to get a subjective look: <br />
Consolas 10.5, Century Gothic 10, Calibri 11, Times Roman 11, Arial 11, and Ecofont 10. Consolas 10.5 is the default plain text email font at our college. Our default html font is Calibri 11 which according to test results in the article is about 9% more wasteful than Century Gothic 10. I think the point size differences are understandable since some fonts run small or large. Subjectively I liked Time Roman 11 for the combination of clarity and ink efficiency (in the top three along with Century Gothic and Ecofont). I am surprised it is that good in ink efficiency. I’m looking into it and considering changing to this as the default font for our college to give the best bang for the buck with the least ink.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6239"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://chadarius.com/" rel="external nofollow">Chadarius</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6239" title=""> April 5th, 2010 at 7:17 pm </a> </div>Brian,<br />
"The test should be done so all words fit on one page with the exact same words for each font"<br />
That is exactly what they did by changing the font. I agree that it is not entirely scientific though. What they should have probably done is figured out a way to "shrink to fit" everything on one page and done the test that way.<br />
Its tough but I’m sure there is a way to make an exact comparison. Basically you want the same word count per page regardless of the font size. They were closer than just using the same font size across all fonts in this experiment but it seems to be a bit more of an "eye-ball" measurement than some kind of math calculation.<br />
This is a great start though. I brought this up in our stuff meeting this morning and everyone got really excited about it.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6251"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Avrami </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6251" title=""> April 6th, 2010 at 9:40 pm </a> </div>Brian, <br />
Why change the fonts if you can optimize the amount of ink used to print all fonts, graphics, and images?<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6260"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Pete </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6260" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 9:39 am </a> </div>That’s an incredible saving for just a simple font change. Interesting that the makers of Star Trek Enterprise used it as a “futuristic” font – did they know something we didn’t <br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6266"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Gilbert E. Vanblarcum </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6266" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 2:56 pm </a> </div>CHADARIUS I agree with you.<br />
Print using GARAMOND. Try it out and you will experience savings on ink and paper.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6272"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Stanford Alan Griffith </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6272" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 5:03 pm </a> </div>Since Century Gothic letters are wider than those of Arial, you will be using more paper as well as the text will have to flow onto additional pages. I don’t see that calculated into the cost.<br />
On a one-page document that won’t matter, but in a book, that can mean many additional octaves (pages of eight, which is the standard for books), which is more expensive.<br />
Has anyone priced that?<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6276"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Paul G </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6276" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 6:59 pm </a> </div>Has anyone noticed the real cost savings has more to do with printer selection than font?<br />
I’m no math major and I hope I’ve calculated this correctly but:<br />
Based on the studies’ assumption of 25 pages/week home use and 250/week for business when using any of the fonts the Canon is roughly 260% more expensive than the Brother:<br />
For Century Gothic:<br />
Canon – $0.0356/page<br />
Brother – $0.0137/page<br />
Even using Franklin Gothic the Brother is only $0.022/page. If the target is to save money buy a printer with cheaper ink, then use the most efficient font for your document needs. For the life of me cannot understand why printer ink costs $5,200 / gal. (Canon – 11ml = $15) other than we have been conditioned to pay it. Color is over $8,400 / gal.!<br />
If you want to be green forget the ink, focus on the paper.<br />
Sometimes I think the printer companies picture us with a big sucker sign slapped to our backs. Maybe they\’re right.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6277"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Phil </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6277" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 7:39 pm </a> </div>I assume that these tests were done with font that is BLACK. What about (also) changing the font color to a dark gray?<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6278"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Larry </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6278" title=""> April 7th, 2010 at 7:40 pm </a> </div>The figures shown apply if the text doesn’t fill the page. For a longer document like a book or short story, at a common size such as 9pt (in which most non-large-print books are printed), a “wide” face such as Verdana or Garamond will take up the shown percent of the paper, but use more total paper, and probably more ink overall, compared to Arial or Times New Roman, respectively.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6284"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Ann Anemas </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6284" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 2:54 am </a> </div>What about Bookman Old Style 12 pt? A lot of US military offices use this as a standard. A cheaper font could save a lot of ink and money.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6287"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Valhalla </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6287" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 4:10 am </a> </div>Please, check Courier New! I love that font, very simple and precise which allows for crisp reading of forms / school papers. Takes up more space than Century Gothic (so also get me an axe…) but doesn’t seem any thicker in the lines.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6295"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> P Cruz </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6295" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 11:03 am </a> </div>1) It is different to use size 10 or size 11.<br />
2) Size matters but some fonts use more ink. Valhalla says "…but doesn’t seem any thicker in the lines", correct, and also says "Takes up more space than Century Gothic", but that is in the horizontal not in the vertical.<br />
Please, check Courier New.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6298"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> AvenirHelveticaFan </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6298" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 12:05 pm </a> </div>How about non-readily available fonts like Avenir, Futura, and Helvetica Neue?<br />
[Futura is a lot like Century Gothic, but slightly condensed]<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6300"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Kevin Krol </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6300" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 1:42 pm </a> </div>Very interesting article. Just curious though – as a desgner, I would like to know how the beloved Helvetica font stacked up to the top ink saving fonts listed?<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6301"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> James </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6301" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 3:15 pm </a> </div>What would be the cost for Sans Serif 10 PT? This is our company default font, would Century Gothic really save much?<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6303"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> lee </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6303" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 3:52 pm </a> </div>so if i am reading the chart correctly, Century Gothic saves $80 per year given 250 pages, compared to Arial. <br />
What if I print 1000 pages per month, is that $320 per year?<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6305"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Michael </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6305" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pm </a> </div>Mr. Griffith (April 7th, 2010 at 5:03 pm) makes a good point when he asks about the additional costs of using more pages. <br />
I am currently working on a 140 page document, which is in Arial font. When I switched to Century Gothic, the number of pages increase to 150.<br />
That’s a 7% increase in the number of pages, which is not negligible.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6309"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/" rel="external nofollow">Bob</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6309" title=""> April 8th, 2010 at 5:36 pm </a> </div>Well, I have to say that I enjoyed reading all of the comments! I’m with <b>Printer.com</b> and I thought I’d comment on a few of the things raised here:<br />
1. <br />
The request to test additional fonts has been heard, loud and clear! Our original testing was done about a year ago, and since then the Ecofont has been redesigned, and I now know that people are in love with various<br />
2. <br />
To those discussing the fact that different font sizes can have an impact on readability and the length of a document– of course you are correct. I think the thing to keep in mind is that we conducted a controlled test, which has to make certain assumptions and must keep certain aspects of the test constant to get meaningful results. Our results should only be used as one piece of input into your decision about what font to choose for your particular document. Just as there are hundreds (thousands?) of fonts to choose from, there is no single answer to the question “what font should I use in this document?”<br />
3. <br />
To the person commenting on the fact that the choice of PRINTER is more important than font to save money while printing, you certainly have a good point. That’s one of the reasons we created <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://printer.com/" rel="nofollow">http://printer.com</a>, so that we can expose the true cost of ownership of a printer, taking into account usage and the cost of ink over several years. I personally have found that buying a “cheap” printer is not so cheap in the long run. These “cheaper” printers tend to have much smaller ink cartridges, therefore you have to change cartridges more often. Even if the smaller cartridges are marginally cheaper than bigger ones, over a several year period you can find yourself spending WAAAAY more for ink than if you had purchased a more expensive printer (with larger cartridges) to begin with.<br />
Bob Crum<br />
<b><i>Printer.com</i></b><br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6332"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://www.ecofont.com/" rel="external nofollow">The Ecofont Team</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6332" title=""> April 9th, 2010 at 12:12 pm </a> </div>Hi all, to get things straight. Ecofont is not just ‘redesigned’ . Ecofont started 1,5 year ago with a proof of concept with which we put holes in Vera Sans by hand. As legibility was still very well we decided to develop Ecofont into software that shoots holes in EVERY font. By installing Ecofont software you add an Ecofont print button to your toolbar with which you can print directly with holes in the font you are working with at that moment. So with Ecofont software you will also be able to cut down on ink usage when using Century Gothic. We make the most saving font save much much more!<br />
Ecofont software will be available end of June.<br />
Kind regards, The Ecofont Team<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6347"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> CHET </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6347" title=""> April 10th, 2010 at 1:19 am </a> </div>I shall continue to use Microsoft comic sans no matter where it falls in the ink usage annals or tests or ………<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6363"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Pete W </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6363" title=""> April 11th, 2010 at 5:27 am </a> </div>As Brian pointed out, Century Gothic uses more paper then Arial. A quick check on my PC shows that using the default 1″ margin settings in MS Word 2007 it would take about 10.1 pages in 10 pt CG for every 9 pages in 10 pt Arial. Using Open Office Writer with its default .79″ margins, the ratio is about 8.2 pages in CG for every 7 pages in Arial.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6369"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Kermudjin </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6369" title=""> April 11th, 2010 at 4:55 pm </a> </div>This is a nice Windows-centric test. Nothing about other excellent fonts like DejaVu and Liberation.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6379"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Joe </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6379" title=""> April 12th, 2010 at 2:11 pm </a> </div>Times Roman is the best for reading on the paper! <br />
Arial and other serf fonts are on the other hand better for screen reading.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6390"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> icystark </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6390" title=""> April 13th, 2010 at 11:22 am </a> </div>Well, I really didn’t understand the second point (about the font size and the "virtual" page filling).<br />
Of course the space occupied is something defined by the font itself, and also by the font size. But if we compare different fonts, i think a better hypothesis should be the same font height (due to readability) and not the number of page occupied.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6394"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Phil </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6394" title=""> April 13th, 2010 at 1:59 pm </a> </div>Recent tests colleagues have done show quite clearly that ECO font compared to Times New Roman uses 47% per cent MORE ink (and more paper) and if the ECO-font is reduced to the same size as the TNR it still uses 25% per cent more. The guy who did the tests has contacted the ECO SPRANQ people for their comments and has received no reply. I would love to see the test results done by the ECO font people.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6421"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Roberto </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6421" title=""> April 16th, 2010 at 1:05 am </a> </div>Nobody mentioned COURIER, to my opinion, the most economical font because it it so thin. What do you think?<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6442"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Jeanne </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6442" title=""> April 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm </a> </div>I too would like to see Courier comparied. It seems if I take any document using any of the above named fonts and change the font to Courier 10 (10-spaces/inch) and print from WP60 (yes I'm a dinosaur) I use less paper, and the print color is lighter, and the lines seem thiner. I use both WP60 and WP12, when I open the document in WP12 it changes the font to Courier New and the document is typcially about a page longer.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6483"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Jennifer </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6483" title=""> April 19th, 2010 at 12:54 am </a> </div>Would it be possible for me to get a copy of the study? With the detailed data/results? I’m looking to convince my company to change default font in all of our programs.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6578"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://printer.com/" rel="external nofollow">Bob at Printer.com</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6578" title=""> April 24th, 2010 at 7:33 pm </a> </div>Again, thanks to all of you for your great comments. <br />
I wanted to let all of you know that we at Printer.com have discussed an additional round of testing, Phase 2, and we believe that we will do this. We are looking at all of your suggestions of what fonts we should test. In addition, we want to wait for the new Ecofont, which apparently won’t be available until the end of June. So…stay tuned.<br />
Also, the test we did last year is not available in any form that we could make available for download. We didn’t anticipate that need, and didn’t prepare for it. However, we are looking at a brief we could create for this Phase 2 testing. Again…stay tuned.<br />
Bob Crum<br />
<b><i>Printer.com</i></b><br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6612"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Tobias </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6612" title=""> April 27th, 2010 at 1:32 pm </a> </div>Really nice topic i must say but the studies should have been more wider. It should have been not only about the "virtual" page filling but the same height with different fonts to see also the paper costs of increase by using another font. Like Pete W and Michael already said, the amount of paper on small documents might not increase that much but on really big documents like instruction manuals for machines it would be a great difference. And if you make the font too small on a printed document just to save paper it will just stress the reader of such a manual.<br />
So those studies should be extended to analyse also the font change in relation to the paper usage.<br />
With kind greetings<br />
Tobias<br />
P.S.: Sorry if my english might be a little bit difficult to read or wrong sometimes for native speakers. I’m from germany.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6657"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Gene </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6657" title=""> April 29th, 2010 at 5:40 pm </a> </div>For webmasters (and those who think they are) providing a way to either create a PDF of an article, or providing a "printer friendly" view option is a huge help. The other issue is to make sure those options readily evident. And, by the way, it would be nice if the printer friendly view can show comments or not at the users option. (Note this page does not provide it.)<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6699"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Preston (Printer Ink cartridges are my life) Stockland </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6699" title=""> May 3rd, 2010 at 9:01 am </a> </div>The comparison is good, but can you also do a price comparison b/w genuine and compatible ink cartridges? Surely one way to save money wold be to use a compatable or refilled cartridge too.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6705"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Nigel Briggs </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6705" title=""> May 3rd, 2010 at 2:40 pm </a> </div>Much more effective than changing fonts:<br />
Print less – The less you print the more you save.<br />
Write less – edit your documents. Most texts are too wordy.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6728"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Yordan K. </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6728" title=""> May 5th, 2010 at 10:13 pm </a> </div>You should really check your source better bob.<br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/https://www.ecofont.com/en/products/green/printing/saving-printing-costs-and-eco-friendly/why-ecofont-saves-more-ink-than-century-gothic.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.ecofont.com/en/products/green/printing/saving-printing-costs-and-eco-friendly/why-ecofont-saves-more-ink-than-century-gothic.html</a><br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6730"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/" rel="external nofollow">Bob at Printer.com</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6730" title=""> May 6th, 2010 at 2:18 am </a> </div>Just a couple more replies:<br />
To Preston: <br />
Yes, of course, printing with compatible or remanufactured cartridges is certainly a way to save money over the use of OEM cartridges. Some people even elect to refill their own cartridges with ink and toner, thus saving even more. It is up to individuals to determine if this is something they would like to try.<br />
To Yordan: <br />
Our original testing was done in early 2009, and this blog entry was posted on April 13, 2009. At that point in time, the only Ecofont was the “original” one, which is explained in the last paragraph of the link you provided. Since that time, the Ecofont people “…decided to develop Ecofont into software that shoots holes in EVERY font.” The entry you reference was posted by the Ecofont people recently, after the story about the University of Wisconsin at Green Bay broke, so I don’t think it’s a matter of “checking sources” better, but rather taking into account the timeline of what has happened. The new Ecofont software will be availble in June, and we are contemplating how it could be included in our “Phase 2″ testing that we are considering.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6741"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> yolanda </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6741" title=""> May 6th, 2010 at 3:55 pm </a> </div>How do you change the font on the printer. I got a new computer, but I need help.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6743"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Dee Roberts </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6743" title=""> May 6th, 2010 at 5:01 pm </a> </div>It’s a “Kodak Moment”, to steal the tag line from an old TV ad. Not only are their printers competitive price wise, their ink is excellent and their replacement ink cartridge prices are significantly lower than anyone else and they aren’t much more than refill prices at your local drugstore to boot.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6745"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> KB </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6745" title=""> May 6th, 2010 at 5:21 pm </a> </div>Interesting study, lots of great comments, can’t wait for the new study! As for Ecofont…anyone have any idea how shooting holes in fonts will affect documents that have to be machine read or 2d barcodes?<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6753"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Chris </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6753" title=""> May 6th, 2010 at 9:07 pm </a> </div>Please be sure to look at the cost of ink on the extra pages that will print for some fonts in Phase 2 of your testing.<br />
I’m not sure it was clearly stated in the comments above. Let’s take the example of 140 pages of Arial being 150 pages in Century Gothic. If I read it right, 140 pages of Century Gothic at 3.45% coverage is cheaper than 140 pages of Arial at 5%. But I had to print an extra 10 pages. That is 10/140 more pages/ink. The percentage to use for cost savings, if I’m doing this right, is 3.45 + 3.45 * 10 / 140, or 3.45 + .25 or 3.7%. That makes it more like $49.68 for the year.<br />
Thus I don’t think you can ignore this in order to get accurate meaningful results.<br />
thanks,<br />
chris<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-6943"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> tom </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6943" title=""> May 19th, 2010 at 8:07 pm </a> </div>I don’t think people or businesses have the mind set to start changing fonts around. <br />
the simplest solution is to use toner / ink saving software like Inksaver.com or PretonSaver.<br />
it will save up to 70% of your toner and ink usage, i use Pretonsaver.<br />
I don’t know about ink saver, but pretonsaver has a free trial.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-6948"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.myspace.com/PharmacyUSA" rel="external nofollow">Sean In Carlsbad</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-6948" title=""> May 20th, 2010 at 2:23 am </a> </div>Has anyone bothered to do a test with ALL fonts in a uniform point size? <br />
I would, specifically, like to know how Arial 10 is vs. Century Gothic 10… Not 11 vs 10 like in the chart.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-7302"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Richmonde </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-7302" title=""> June 16th, 2010 at 9:02 am </a> </div>Does it save on disk space too?<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-7372"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Toner </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-7372" title=""> June 22nd, 2010 at 5:14 am </a> </div>Century Gothic is a nice font–clean and easy to read. If it is going to help save on printing, then I am going to go for this tip. Thanks for sharing!<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-9047"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> century gothic ecofont </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-9047" title=""> March 2nd, 2011 at 2:18 pm </a> </div>The free Ecofont vera sans has evolved into software that shoots holes in your fonts.<br />
It works with your current fonts, so no need to change your docs or house style. You can also print Century Gothic in Ecofont style for the ultimate saving.<br />
It doesn’t matter if you have a HP, Ricoh, Xerox, Canon, Lexmark, Oki, Lexmark, Samsung, Sharp or any other printer/copier. You can save more than 25% toner on all devices.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-13125"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Photography Tricks </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-13125" title=""> August 5th, 2011 at 9:13 am </a> </div>Have you considered printing with a lowered alpha value? That is, slightly transparent rather then 100% black?<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-15111"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> koolaidguzzler </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-15111" title=""> November 13th, 2011 at 2:13 am </a> </div>Century Gothic hurts my head. It’s spaced too widely apart. Courier New is even worse to read IMO. I do a lot of proofreading / editing. My eyes prefer a denser font. I have preferred Calibri, and like Helvetica too, but now will check out the eco-font thing. I just discovered affordable home-use b/w laser printers, and will start relying on it. My inkjet multi-machine tanks dry out and require replacement even if not used to print. 90 percent of my printing is text anyway.I intend to go to thinner paper as well. In the rare instances where I must submit in a specific font, I will write / proofread in my chosen font, then convert to the required font prior to submission / printing.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-18549"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Terry </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-18549" title=""> February 19th, 2012 at 10:52 pm </a> </div>I’ve been using inksquirrel from <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.inksquirrelfonts.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.inksquirrelfonts.com</a> for a while now. It looks like Arial, but save about 30% of the ink or toner and doesn’t use as much paper as Century Gothic. [ no record survives of this site or anything called inksquirrelfonts on archive.org - January 2015 ]<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-21408"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> John </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-21408" title=""> April 26th, 2012 at 11:11 am </a> </div>You can also turn the printer to draft this uses a lot less ink, and the cartridges last almost twice as long. The print quality is not as good but it’s fine for internal work.<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-23420"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Free Photo Prints Dude </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-23420" title=""> May 24th, 2012 at 8:21 pm </a> </div>Fantastic advice Bob. I hate arial, it’s so boring. Century Gothic is a favourite of mine but only really for headings. My favourite for nomal text is calibri so it’s great to know how much money I’m saving.<br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-27131"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> <a class="url" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/" rel="external nofollow">Eric Beeler</a> </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-27131" title=""> June 29th, 2012 at 4:11 am </a> </div>I have done some updated research and identified Garamond as a superior font.<br />
To learn more, check out my post.<br />
<a href="http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/2012/06/comparing-apples-oranges-and-fonts-how.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/2012/06/comparing-apples-oranges-and-fonts-how.html</a><br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-27219"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Eric </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-27219" title=""> June 29th, 2012 at 7:15 pm </a> </div>Garmond12pt can reduce consumption 27% compared to Calibri 11pt.<br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/2012/06/comparing-apples-oranges-and-fonts-how.html" rel="nofollow">http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/2012/06/comparing-apples-oranges-and-fonts-how.html</a><br />
</li>
<li class="" id="comment-32943"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Franck Einstein </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-32943" title=""> August 8th, 2012 at 1:02 pm </a> </div>Century Gothic is the clear winner of your test its little brother Century Schoolbook is reputed to be still more efficient. Nevertheless, if I look at the result given by the calulator of What-the-Font, Arial is more efficient than Century Gothic and a little bit less efficient than Century Schoolbook. This is contrasting with the results of your test (The curious thing is that for the other fonts mentionned by Printer.com the results are more or less consistent with the ones of the calculator). Is there a logical explanation to these really different results? Thank you in advance for your explanations<br />
</li>
<li class="alt" id="comment-36677"> <div class="commentmetadata"><span class="author"> Rhonda </span><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference#comment-36677" title=""> September 18th, 2012 at 2:51 pm </a> </div>We use Xerox WorkCentre (model 5638, 4150, 5655, 7345) PCL 6 printers in our offices and I would like to know how font style and size VS paper compares on these printers.<br />
It there a way to know the results or has there been a study done on this?<br />
Thanks<br />
</li>
</ol><br />
</div></div><h2>Related Posts</h2><ul class="related_post"><li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/06/o-brother-printer-where-art-thou/" title="O Brother Printer, Where Art Thou?">O Brother Printer, Where Art Thou?</a></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/greening-your-printer/" title="Greening Your Printer">Greening Your Printer</a></li>
</ul></div><div id="sidebar"><div class="noCircle"><h2 class="widgettitle">Popular Posts</h2><ul><li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printing-costs-does-font-choice-make-a-difference/" title="Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference?">Printing Costs: Does Font Choice Make a Difference?</a> <span class="post-stats"> 113456 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/03/printing-in-the-third-dimension/" title="Printing in the Third Dimension">Printing in the Third Dimension</a> <span class="post-stats"> 28071 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/cats-the-purrfect-printer-accessory/" title="Cats: The Purrfect Printer Accessory">Cats: The Purrfect Printer Accessory</a> <span class="post-stats"> 27883 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/greening-your-printer/" title="Greening Your Printer">Greening Your Printer</a> <span class="post-stats"> 27390 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/05/rage-against-the-machine/" title="Rage Against the Machine!">Rage Against the Machine!</a> <span class="post-stats"> 16065 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/02/printercom-study-shows-more-expensive-printers-have-lower-ownership-costs/" title="Printer.com Study Shows More Expensive Printers Have Lower Ownership Costs">Printer.com Study Shows More Expensive Printers Have Lower Ownership Costs</a> <span class="post-stats"> 13484 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/03/the-history-of-printing/" title="The History of Printing">The History of Printing</a> <span class="post-stats"> 11724 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/05/the-future-of-printing/" title="The Future of Printing">The Future of Printing</a> <span class="post-stats"> 10498 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/04/printercom-shows-kodak-has-20-lower-cost-of-ownership/" title="Printer.com Shows Kodak has 20% Lower Cost of Ownership">Printer.com Shows Kodak has 20% Lower Cost of Ownership</a> <span class="post-stats"> 9151 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/12/printing-in-the-1940s/" title="Printing in the 1940s">Printing in the 1940s</a> <span class="post-stats"> 7179 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/05/oh-brother-printer-where-art-thou/" title="I Need a New Smudge-Free Printer">I Need a New Smudge-Free Printer</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5997 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/06/o-brother-printer-where-art-thou/" title="O Brother Printer, Where Art Thou?">O Brother Printer, Where Art Thou?</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5824 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/06/to-print-perchance-to-dream/" title="To Print, Perchance to Dream">To Print, Perchance to Dream</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5638 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/06/beyond-inkjet-cool-ways-to-print/" title="Beyond Inkjet: Cool Ways to Print">Beyond Inkjet: Cool Ways to Print</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5535 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/08/carbon-footprint-of-printing-global-guilt-coupled-with-ignorance/" title="Carbon Footprint of Printing: Global Guilt Coupled with Ignorance">Carbon Footprint of Printing: Global Guilt Coupled with Ignorance</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5282 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/02/windows-printers-drivers-oh-my/" title="Windows & Printers & Drivers: Oh My!">Windows & Printers & Drivers: Oh My!</a> <span class="post-stats"> 5108 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/07/print-a-new-hip-while-u-wait/" title="Print a New Hip While-U-Wait">Print a New Hip While-U-Wait</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4992 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/01/printer-ink-toner-cartridges-cost-rises-3-to-6/" title="Printer Ink Toner Cartridges Cost Rises 3% to 6%">Printer Ink Toner Cartridges Cost Rises 3% to 6%</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4904 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/03/book-addiction-curbing-the-shakes-after-hours/" title="Book Addiction: Curbing the Shakes After Hours">Book Addiction: Curbing the Shakes After Hours</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4872 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/10/the-future-of-publishing/" title="The Future of Publishing">The Future of Publishing</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4785 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/09/take-your-printer-to-starbucks/" title="Take Your Printer to Starbucks">Take Your Printer to Starbucks</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4441 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/06/the-dog-ate-my-homework/" title="The Dog Ate My Homework">The Dog Ate My Homework</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4235 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/05/do-vulcans-get-papercuts/" title="Do Vulcans Get Papercuts?">Do Vulcans Get Papercuts?</a> <span class="post-stats"> 4151 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/10/ill-have-a-latte-with-nutmeg-griffin-please/" title="I'll Have a Latte with NutMeg Griffin, Please">I'll Have a Latte with NutMeg Griffin, Please</a> <span class="post-stats"> 3991 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/04/fonts-that-annoy-people/" title="Fonts That Annoy People">Fonts That Annoy People</a> <span class="post-stats"> 3859 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/02/study-shows-300-premium-to-print-in-color/" title="Study Shows 300% Premium to Print in Color">Study Shows 300% Premium to Print in Color</a> <span class="post-stats"> 3691 view(s)</span></li>
<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/05/environment-101-how-to-be-green-while-appearing-otherwise/" title="ENV 101: How to be Green While Appearing Otherwise">ENV 101: How to be Green While Appearing Otherwise</a> <span class="post-stats"> 3032 view(s)</span></li>
</ul><h2>Recent Posts</h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/05/environment-101-how-to-be-green-while-appearing-otherwise/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: ENV 101: How to be Green While Appearing Otherwise">ENV 101: How to be Green While Appearing Otherwise</a><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/04/fonts-that-annoy-people/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Fonts That Annoy People">Fonts That Annoy People</a><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/03/book-addiction-curbing-the-shakes-after-hours/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Book Addiction: Curbing the Shakes After Hours">Book Addiction: Curbing the Shakes After Hours</a><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2010/02/windows-printers-drivers-oh-my/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Windows & Printers & Drivers: Oh My!">Windows & Printers & Drivers: Oh My!</a><br />
<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119035209/http://blog.printer.com/2009/12/printing-in-the-1940s/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent Link: Printing in the 1940s">Printing in the 1940s</a></div><div id="archives"><div class="left"><ul><li class="noCircle"> <h3>Printers</h3><div class="noCircle"><ul><li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://brother.printer.com/">Brother Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://canon.printer.com/">Canon Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://epson.printer.com/">Epson Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://hp.printer.com/">HP Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://kodak.printer.com/">Kodak Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://konica-minolta.printer.com/">Konica-Minolta Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://lexmark.printer.com/">Lexmark Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://oki.printer.com/">Oki Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://samsung.printer.com/">Samsung Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://xerox.printer.com/">Xerox Printers</a></li>
</ul></div></li>
</ul></div><div class="right"><ul><ul><li class="noCircle"> <h3>Information</h3><div class="noCircle"><ul><li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/brands.html">Brands</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.cartridge">Cartridges</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.laser.c">Color Laser Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.connectivity">Connectivity</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.priceperpage">Cost Per Page</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.inkjet">Inkjet Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.memory">Memory</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.papercapacity">Paper Capacity</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.printerprice">Price Range</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.speed">Print Speed</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.photo">Photo Printers</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.printmodes">Print Modes</a></li>
<li class="noCircle"><a class="oconomy" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.printer.com/content.us.html?info.solidink">Solid Ink Printers</a></li>
</ul></div></li>
</ul></ul></div></div><table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 150px;"><tbody>
<tr> <td width="30"></td> <td><br />
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table><div id="wpcumuluscontent">WP Cumulus Flash tag cloud by <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.roytanck.com/">Roy Tanck</a> requires Flash Player 9 or better.<br />
Related to political promises & election leaflets at <a href="https://election-richmond-park.blogspot.co.uk/">richmond park UK election leaflets & candidates</a> </div></div><div id="footer">Copyright © Printer.com 2009-2013. All Rights Reserved. <br />
Designed by <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://fresh01.co.za/" target="_blank" title="FRESH01 Freelance Web Design">Cobus Bester</a><br />
Powered by <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121022091251/http://www.wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress</a><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: center;"><i>copied from archive.org by a </i><a href="http://veganline.com/"><i>vegan shoe shop - Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots & belts</i></a></div><hr align="LEFT" /></div></div></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com47tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-62630346501266047102014-12-28T16:09:00.009+00:002018-10-19T11:38:17.845+01:00Nesting software for next to nothing to do 2d CNC cutting optimisation<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h1 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;">Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive</span></h1><blockquote class="tr_bq">These are notes-to-self by somone who wants to download cheap 2d nesting software and promote a <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly made in the UK">vegan shoe shop</a>. One way of keeping notes is to write a kind of guide to what nesting software is, then a list of discovered nesting software prices and sources, so here goes. I don't claim to have tried all this software or made it work - in fact I am still quite stuck but offer the notes anyway.<br />
<br />
Scroll-down if you just want the links.<br />
<br />
<fieldset><span style="color: red;">Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive</span> - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">People who have cut material out of sheet for know the advantage of nesting cut-out shapes into the tightest possible pattern on least material. Some people are better or worse than others at doing it by hand, but those who do it for a living are probably good. Those who cut from irregular and blemished products like hydes have to work manually or use even more specialised software. The idea of a computer program to give a second opinion on how to lay-out the parts is good too - particularly if you don't have years of experience, or you don't like the job, or else you are a machine and need vector graphic code to cut from, or if you have discovered that microfiber can be as good as leather with a more regular shape and less blemishes.<br />
<br />
The flavours are<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>one dimensional nesting software, for cutting lengths - sometimes free,</li>
<li>two dimensional nesting software, for cutting rectangles - sometimes free, and</li>
<li>two dimensional nesting software, for nesting other shapes - true shape nesting software - nearly always expensive.</li>
</ul>Nesting software for curved shapes is seldom bought or sold, so publishers are coy about prices in the hundreds or even thousands if part of a CAD CAM package for some niche market like igloo-building, ship building, which is the same but the other way up, or footwear, clothing and apparel which is often the same way-up as igloos but has a range of sizes. The machines for making a shape on a screen, or converting to make a shape on a welder or wood carver or lazer are different too. You can see I'm bluffing a little here and will have a look at <a href="https://www.cnccookbook.com/2014/05/06/6-things-a-brand-new-cncer-should-do-to-get-started/">this discovered link some time about machines for making</a>.<br />
<br />
The simplest case, I think, is to use nesting software to draw a pattern on a screen and then use that as a rough guide for how to cut by hand, maybe using a blade to cut round templates or positioning knives under a hydraulic press and pressing the button before moving them along a bit. Firms like Cricut are warming-up the market for cutter-plotters the size of computer printers which will cut anything less than a foot wide, if you can think of such a thing that needs cutting. <a href="http://uk.cricut.com/home/learn/machines/explore" title="cutter plotters are getting to be as cheap as printers">Cricut Explore</a> is their latest offering as I write. Two of the programs below are split in two to suit simple cases: you buy a section that shows you how to nest shapes; your buy another section to instruct your cutting machine if you ever save-up for one.<br />
<br />
I don't know anything about 3D software nor the overlaps with CAD CAM software that can make searching difficult: a product can be described as free 2d Cad Cam software but not do nesting. When searching, you find a few pages of software and then a lot of references to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology">Viking-invader style</a> attempts to get software by any means.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - <span style="color: red;">What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is</span> - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software</span></span></h3><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://www.nestlibonline.com/">Nestlibonline.com</a> charge between $2 a nest and $59 a month for an online cutting optimistaion service to .dxf or .pdf</li>
<li><span style="color: red;">Mynesting</span> charge between $7.50 a nest & $150 a month for an online cutting optimisation service</li>
<li><span style="color: red;">E-nesting.com/faq.aspx</span> tried to offer a free online cutting optimisation nesting service for beta testing, but offer a "busy" message instead when I try to use their test samples.<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - <span style="color: red;">Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software</span> - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></li>
</ul><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">$25 pays for <a href="http://ain.e-cut.ru/index.php">ain.e-Cut.ru</a> of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novosibirsk">Novosibirsk</a> which the first of the author's youtube help videos shows to be <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VorG-due-DA">in Siberia</a>. The 1st link is to Pavel Mishakov's <b>A1Nesting</b> page - ain.e-cut.ru - which is a program that nests .ai files. It does nothing else but nest in an attempt to be so simple that it needs no instruction. It works with early versions of the .ai file format described in the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Illustrator_Artwork">introduction to this Wiki page</a>. I haven't yet managed to trace a curved shape in another program and import it as a curve - it's imported as a rectangle with a pattern on it - so ideas as comments below are welcome.<br />
<br />
Other Mishakov software on the e-cut site - http://eng.e-cut.ru/ http://ecut5.e-cut.ru/index.php?lng=EN and htp://illustrator.e-cut.ru - works as a plugin to recent versions of CoralDraw full edition from version X3 or Adobe Illustrator Creative Suite 5+ and does other things as well, but <b>A1nesting</b> is ultra-simple and cheap. There is no dongle but you have to buy a code, confusingly starting with "ain" in small letters before the number-plate-like key that activates the program allowing it to open and save files in .ai format from Adobe Illustrator 8. I've bought a copy with some vague idea of making <a href="http://veganline.com/">vegan shoe uppers for a vegan shoe shop</a> and some of the experiments with it have worked.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - <span style="color: red;">e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software</span> - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more </span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Nobody knows why a lot of people in the US buy desktop plotters for cutting card, except them. Lots of them do it. Their vast mental hospitals in the 1940s and 50s used to teach leather embossing as a theraputic job. <a href="http://www.paperthreads.com/bonus/paperthreads_machine_compare_112008.html">A comparison of the cutters</a> and their default software shows <a href="https://www.silhouetteamerica.com/software">Silhouetteamerica.com/software</a> claims to do advanced nesting for $99 - the only desktop cutter software on the list that mentions nesting at all, and only in its paid-for upgraded versions. The difference between $49 "nesting" and $99 "advanced nesting" is best understood from their <a href="https://www.silhouetteamerica.com/faq/solution/automated-nesting-preview-mode-business-edition">$49 designer faq page</a> and their <a href="https://www.silhouetteamerica.com/faq/solution/automated-nesting-preview-mode-business-edition">$99 business faq page</a>, they tell me. The programs are crippled to save in native .studio format rather than .svg so you have to search for work-arounds if this is important. For example if a machine with 210g pressure and 0.5mm clearance for material thickness is too little for your ship-building project. (Ship-building is the application that's like fashion design but the other way up, less sizes but more internal parts. Ship builders also use heaver material than fashion designers).<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - <span style="color: red;">Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more </span>- Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I have searched a great deal for cheap or free nesting software and found multiple un-answered threads with one reference to UCanNest. It's from a Beijing Chinese firm at <a href="http://www.ucancam.com/3dengraving.asp" style="color: #0000cc;">Ucancam.com</a>, known for providing bundled software to go with Chinese cutter plotters. I haven't worked-out the difference between the $145 and $270 versions, but there are some youtube videos and .pdf manuals that might explain. You have to buy a dongle before the software even lets you run a trial, but if $145 is affordable that might be worth it. I guess that people who have bought cutter-plotters have also somehow bought this software, and might have a copy if they're leaving the trade.<br />
<br />
$380 <a href="http://nestprofessor.com/index_en.php">Nestprofessor.com</a> and $480 Cutleader are a pair of programs from a Shanghai Chinese company, according to prices from C|net and a coupon code for cutleader on another site. The nestprofessor site gives a range of US dollar prices for extra features such as nesting a part within a part.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - <span style="color: red;">Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only</span> - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">free vector graphics software to use with nesting software<br />
free illustrator downloads</span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/cs2-product-downloads.html">Adobe CS2 products are now available to download for free</a>, as far as anyone can tell from Adobe's publishing of download links and free universal serial numbers, even if they state that this is a service for people who have lost old details. (The question to ask a lawyer is whether Adobe would prosecute and win a case for use of an old program that they give away free; the question to ask yourself is whether this is like picking something out of a skip.) I don't know of an e-cut plugin for Adobe Illustrator CS2, but it can save and open files in illustrator 8 format if you tick the right box after <i>"save as"</i>. The files end <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Illustrator_Artwork">.ai</a> just like different more recent adobe illustrator native files.<br />
<br />
This older version of the .ai format is very similar to encapsulated postscript .eps files, and if these are renamed .ai there is a good chance that A1Nesting from u-cut.ru will open those as well, and the .ai files it saves can be re-named .eps and read by other software, whether or not it has a setting for .ai.<br />
There's also a chance that the files will open as a .pdf if renamed .pdf - I haven't tested this yet.<br />
Newer .ai files are a different thing.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Oseberg_ship_head_post.jpg/220px-Oseberg_ship_head_post.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Viking shop prow decoration possibly made with looted CAD CAM software. (not really)" border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Oseberg_ship_head_post.jpg/220px-Oseberg_ship_head_post.jpg" title="Viking ship prow decoration" /></a>Once saved as .ai files, the files saved by A1cut open in Adobe Illustrator CS2 although the document size doesn't get recognised, reverts to a default, and needs to be re-set and the nested images selected with control+A and one of the lower arrow selectors to be slid back into their frame. A1Nesting also has trouble with overlapping images and probably all sorts of other limitations as well, but for $25 software I find it pretty good.<br />
<br />
I hope u-cut develop a plugin for open source <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_vector_graphics_editors">vector graphics editors</a> like <a href="https://inkscape.org/">Inkscape.org</a> or <a href="http://www.openoffice.org/product/draw.html">Open Office Draw</a> or even the free-ish Adobe Illustrator CS2 or free older editions of Serif Draw Plus, to save work-arounds for those who prefer open source, free or cheap software. Something for open source software would be great.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - <span style="color: red;">free vector graphics software to use with nesting software</span> - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Oseberg.JPG/220px-Oseberg.JPG" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Viking prow possibly made with looted CAD CAM software" border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Oseberg.JPG/220px-Oseberg.JPG" title="prow of a viking ship" /></a></span></span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software </span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/cad_pad_or_tukatech/">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/cad_pad_or_tukatech/</a> shows prices for clothes CAD software at $5,000 or $7,000. These <a href="http://www.shoeinfonet.com/technology/cad%20cam/cad%20cam.htm">CAD CAM footwear softwear companies</a> don't show prices and probably charge the same or more. Clicking-about on google I saw an "economical" plugin at $500 so the mainstream probably charges more than $500. Some companies split the industry-specific or plotter-specific cutting parts of their software from the nesting parts, so a combined program might be double the cost of a halved one. If I were selling a product that only sells a few downloads a year, I might quote or hint-at a high price and leave it to my commission sales person to haggle if they want, taking other offers into account.<br />
<br />
This is a comment from a ship-builder or someone using software for welding with a robot plasma blow lamp: <i>"Trouble with using a 'generic' nesting package is that it will only output a full sheet as a DXF file, so the plasma package will then machine the sheet how it likes, instead of cutting the individual parts out. You can programme sheetcam to cut the individual parts out, but it is a pain if you have to do a lot. With plasma software that has nesting built in, it will be optimised to cut each part out separately"</i>. I have no idea what that means, but shipbuilders probably know.<br />
<br />
A lot of people also try to raid software instead of paying for it - rather like ancient Vikings. It's claimed that one of the sellers on the fashion incubator list managed to forge the dongles from another software company and sell a re-labelled copy as his own. From a safe distance, you have to admire Vikings for their cheek as well as their designs, which were possibly made with looted CAD CAM software too. Oh and I have a post about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html">Viking office copier paper, which is not so testosterone-fuelled as viking raids</a>.<br />
<br />
As for other glimpses...<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">Plus2D</span> from Nirvanatec has some free versions on download sites, but I guess they're trials because http://www.nirvanatec.com/order.html quotes €650 or €800 for a working core module. Money transfer to their bank is cheap via Transferwise but €650 or €800 are a lot in any currency - euros are worth about the same as US dollars.<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/goog_493409543"><br />
</a> <a href="http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/softwaretable.htm">http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/softwaretable.htm</a> lists a few programs for "advanced nesting".<br />
The site is about wood carving software so it may leave out some programs that just do nesting<br />
<span style="color: red;">Shopbot Partworks</span> $795 on their site<br />
<span style="color: red;">Vectric Aspire</span> $1,995 / £1,295 / €1,650 while their Vcarve Pro is <span class="style3">$599 / £395 / €500 - I don't know the difference between these but if you are into wood carving they might be worth more research.</span><br />
<span style="color: red;">Delcam Artcam Express with nesting plugin</span> £99 €125 $149 plus the plugin @ £299 €399 $499<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - <span style="color: red;">a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software</span> - Nesting software open source - Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red; font-size: large;">Nesting software open source</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">I searched and found none, just s<a href="https://www.findbestopensource.com/tagged/nesting">ome code waiting for someone to make-up into a program</a> if they want and if it works. Wikipedia lists <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_embroidery_software">open source embroidery programs for free</a>, which used to be a similar expensive niche. There are <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CAx_companies#Open_source_CAD_software_projects">open source Computer Aided Design</a> programs listed on the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer-aided_design_editors">sortable table here</a> with a sort-column for "licence". Some of them look usable for new users, but none has anything like nesting mentioned in their wiki descriptions. There are open source vector graphics programs including Inkscape, with requests on its message boards for someone to write a nesting module.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Open_source_textiles">https://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Open_source_textiles</a> came-up when I searched for "Computer Aided Drafting" after reading some posts on <a href="https://www.fashion-incubator.com./">http://www.fashion-incubator.com.</a><br />
There's no program on the list that offers nesting, as far as I can guess. One of them called Valentia Project is a recognisable piece of software with an installer; others like Sodacad are less familiar so maybe someone better at understanding obscure softare packages should have a look, but I don't think there is a free nesting function in any of the programs on the list.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - <span style="color: red;">Nesting software open source </span>- Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip. </fieldset></blockquote><h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: red;"><b><a name='more'></a>Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip</b>.</span></span></span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><div style="text-align: left;">There are a few firms that bend sharp steel strip into any shape you want and braze it to re-enforcements to keep it in shape when pressed. One firm I contacted quoted a pound an inch plus plus VAT and delivery. Long slits called crew-punches are I think £30 and round punches £10. I asked about belt strap dies - the price may be different for more curved shapes - <a href="http://soundsofmaking.com/portfolio/268/" target="_blank">you can see pictures of someone making them here</a>. The workshop is on Lea Bridge Road, London. The company now has other branches - email one of them to egt the mobile number for the workshop. Other firms may charge a little more and some can cast a die for a longer-lasting and more accurate tool. I don't have any links to post, but the cost of dies is hard to guess till you ask so I thought it best to put a quote online. <a href="http://www.pressknivesandpressdies.co.uk/" target="_blank">Oh here's another press-knife manufacturer</a> from Google.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://soundsofmaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMG_0430.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://soundsofmaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMG_0430.jpg" /></a></div></div><br />
Templates for cutting-around with a knife can be simpler, but tend to get smaller each time if made of cardboard. Years ago there was a special brass re-enforcement available to prevent this. Nowadays people tend to order dies made of metal sheet, or trace round the board with a pencil and then try to cut along the line.<br />
<fieldset>Nesting software for cutting optimisation of curved shapes is expensive - What nesting software for sheet cutting optimisation is - Download cheap true-shape nesting or sheet cutting optimization software - e-cut.ru: $25 for nesting only- downloadable licensed software - Silhouetteamerica.com : $99 for nesting software & more - Ucancam.com: $145 or $270 for nesting only - free vector graphics software to use with nesting software - a glimpse of what other people pay for CAD nesting software - Nesting software open source - <span style="color: red;"> Cutting dies made from Swedish steel strip</span>. </fieldset></blockquote><hr align="left" />I got interested in nesting software while running a <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="nonleather footwear uppers for making vegetarian shoes">vegan footwear company called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes boots and belts - the connection is a need to make vegan footwear uppers or bags out of microfibre. So far I haven't had help from software but these are notes in progress</a> </div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com16tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-51417499366167032032014-10-21T15:11:00.011+01:002019-08-01T11:15:09.586+01:00Ink saving software, paper saving software, and some fonts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
For printer running costs and fonts see also <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html"> </a><br />
<ul><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html"></a></ul>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
I have some other posts about ink-saving and how to save paper with different layouts.<br />
<ul>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/</a><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html">saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html<b><span style="color: red;"><here</span></b></a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html" title="how to measure ink coverage or toner coverage of a document or a font for ink saving">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printer-running-costs-test.html </a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html" title="Printer.com's original test: Does Font Choice Make a Difference to ink saving?">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html" title="Ink coverage and economy of 100 fonts compared">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html</a></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html" title="where and how to buy cheap A4 office copy paper in the UK">veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html</a><b> </b></li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><br />
</span></blockquote>
<ul></ul>
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Ink-saving software.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: red;">♦ Ink-saving software in this list costs a few pounds after a trial</span>, with the one exception of Greencloud. It works by spreading the ink more thinly. Your printer driver probably already has a draft mode and you are able to print in grey, but refinements are a smoother pale print, while some programs try to make the edges of letters darker than the middle, or allow different settings for colours or types of print.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="color: red;">♦ Paper-saving software in the next list tends to be free</span>. It works by allowing you to cut unwanted pages from a print-preview or combine more than one sheet onto a page. You may already have these on your printer driver or your ink-saving software. Refinements allow you to edit the layout of documents web pages just before printing, maybe cutting-out unwanted ads or tweaking the margins.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
The two functions sometimes appear in the same software and often appear in the same search results, showing software with confusingly similar names, so I have made a list of each in alphabetical order, starting here with ink-saving.<br />
<span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="background-color: #999999;"></span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;"><span style="color: red;">♦ Malware<span style="color: black;"> is a relatively gentle sort of unwanted software that can come bundled with other programs. Gentler than viruses, and so possibly not tracked by your virus tracker. Adobe ask you if you'd like to add a trial of AVG antivirus with their updates. Oracle Corporation ask if you'd like Ask Toolbar with their Java software. Sites like C|net that offer free hosting for file downloads can add surprises too, as well as allowing adverts saying "download" next to their download links. My worst was Tucows download of a program called 4X Ultrasaver, which seems no longer to exist, but the downloader asked my address and income before installing <a href="http://www.malwareremovalguides.info/safesearch-net-safesearch-toolbar-removal-instructions/">Safesearch.net</a> and Crimewatch. A search of Malware removal tools finds programs that can remove these. <a href="https://ninite.com/">https://deletemalware.blogspot.co.uk</a> has more detail. Malwarebytes Spybot and Lavasoft are well-known ones and Microsoft publishes a malicious-software removal tool.</span></span></span> </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;"><span style="color: red;"><span style="color: black;">Malware takes more time & effort than is saved in ink, so if you're doing this for an organisation, experiment at home first, try to download from the orginal authors' web site, and then try to be nice to IT people at work and warn them what you are about to do.</span></span></span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;"><span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;"><span style="color: red;">♦ Thrift: </span></span>on the theme of how to save money in organisations, <a href="https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/free-office-software">moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/free-office-software</a> is a guide that could turn geeky interests to good use. Most of the offerings have open source code and are totally free with no attempt to make money from licences to anyone, which keeps things simple. I don't know a good guide to which software is meant to be free for organisations and which is free for home use only, but bitdefender free version works well as a virus checker. The free version doesn't cover malware, and I should probably find a link to the best free programs to check for malware at work. There are also malware and virus checkers being developed by microsoft that are free for organisations to use, so a small business or voluntary organisation like <a href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=FIFA+scandal" target="_blank">FIFA</a> that's likely to have a drop in revenue can try to cut costs that way. If they need to sell their <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_headquarters" target="_blank">Zurich offices</a>, there are also online services like google docs that let staff work from home and probably be more efficient than if they all had to commute-in and sit together at work.</span></blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://www.inkpal.com/images/fonts-that-use-less-ink-and-are-better-for-the-environment.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br clear="ALL" /></a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#cleverprint">#cleverprint</a> .<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#ecofont">#ecofont</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#ecoprint">#ecoprint</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#fineprint">#fineprint</a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009#getdimples">#getdimples</a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009#greencloud">#greencloud</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#greenprint">#greenprint</a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009#inkguard">#inkguard</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#inksaver">#inksaver</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#pretonsaver">#pretonsaver</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#printandsave">#printandsave</a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009#printfab">#printfab</a> <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/10/saving-ink-with-spranq-ecofont.html#priprinter">#priprinter</a> <!--SELECTION--><!--/SELECTION--></div>
.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.abelssoft.de/media/abelssoft.de/products/14/screenshots/en-us/beta_screen1@2x.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br />
</a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="cleverprint"></a>These programs come-and-go, but you can find updates on<br /><a href="https://alternativeto.net/software/priprinter/">alternativeto.net/software/priprinter</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.abelssoft.de/media/abelssoft.de/products/14/screenshots/en-us/beta_screen1@2x.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Cleverprint screen shot" border="0" height="218" src="https://www.abelssoft.de/media/abelssoft.de/products/14/screenshots/en-us/beta_screen1@2x.png" title="" width="320" /></a><a href="https://www.abelssoft.net/cleverprint.php">Cleverprint</a> is a $50 ink saver tool with a 30 day trial period to do things that other programs do for free. It combines up to 8 pages onto a sheet, it allows removal of pages from the print preview, it converts to other file formats, and it does things that possibly someone in the world wants like adding a watermark or counting how many sheets it has printed. C|net's description mentions printing in paler ink, putting it in this ink-saving list but the publishers are quiet about that function so it may belong in the paper-saving list below.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.inkpal.com/images/fonts-that-use-less-ink-and-are-better-for-the-environment.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br clear="ALL" /></a></div>
<a href="https://www.inkpal.com/images/fonts-that-use-less-ink-and-are-better-for-the-environment.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="Ecofont example and logo" border="0" height="187" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://www.inkpal.com/images/fonts-that-use-less-ink-and-are-better-for-the-environment.jpg" title="Ecofont shown large and bold to demonstrate holes in the middle" width="320" /></a><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="ecofont"></a><a href="https://www.ecofont.com/">Ecofont</a> have a <span style="color: purple;">$25 Word add-on, $60 for 3 copies</span> or by quotation for more. It removes holes from the middle of typefaces: Arial, Verdana, Calibri, Times New Roman and Trebuchet. <a href="http://ebeeler.blogspot.com/2012/07/ecofont-program-review.html">Ecofont test results are on this blog page and show a significant saving.</a> Legibility looks better for print than screen, so a document written for both would be best with a tweak to the style sheet to use the ecofont version for print and the black version for screen.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<div style="text-align: left;">
The holes are said not to show or not to distract when printed in body text, partly because ragged edges to the print spray will tend to fill them in. There is also a utility for printing only the more relevant parts of a document, a 14-day free demo edition, and anyone can download a free Spranq eco-sans typeface. It's based on a font you'd probably want to use on screen rather than for print and so not a great help but it is free. There is more about the impossible job of balancing cost and readability in a font on one of the re-top paragraphs below headed "<span style="color: red;">Ink-saving fonts - first notes to self now expanded on other pages</span>", which is true: there are other pages on this blog about ink saving fonts.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="ecoprint"></a> <a href="http://www.ecoprintsaver.com/">Ecoprintsaver.com/contact</a> is £35 english-language page from a Japanese company selling ink-saver <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9O0f2ZJiFRG4A8bf7ZmoNYydrvs-gU0T3HI3F1s6soWXJRYvEdZCFRic2iIY9TCcJhFQ0vJfdvq0VWnF4iasmYlZOMB-PWuywph4cw0OdN5dv9JiRFwwaLnCAU7dnxbTyiq27HGgRYAKJ/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Ecoprint 2 ink saving software screen shot" border="0" data-original-height="533" data-original-width="643" height="265" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9O0f2ZJiFRG4A8bf7ZmoNYydrvs-gU0T3HI3F1s6soWXJRYvEdZCFRic2iIY9TCcJhFQ0vJfdvq0VWnF4iasmYlZOMB-PWuywph4cw0OdN5dv9JiRFwwaLnCAU7dnxbTyiq27HGgRYAKJ/s320/temp.jpg" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
software called ecoprint2, sometimes available on english language download sites. It has a 50 day free trial and then costs around £35 - the same price as another english language version of another piece of Japanese ink-saving software called Inksaver.com below. Screenprints suggest that they're different.<br />
<br />
Well reviewed on <a href="http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/software/3436192/ecoprint2-pro-review-save-money-on-printing/" title="EcoPrint2 Pro review - save money on printing">PC Advisor</a> and <a href="http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/software/50590/avanquest-print-saver-eco-review">Expertreviews.co.uk</a> with worse user reviews on <a href="http://download.cnet.com/EcoPrint2-Pro-Ink-and-Paper-Saver/3000-2088_4-10864857.html#userReviews" title="user reviews of Ecoprint 2 inksaver software">C|net</a> Other user star ratings on Softpedia or Fileforum are in the middle of the range as well.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="http://getdimples.com/wp-content/uploads/Dimples-patent-figure-5-D-heart-e1414175415395.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" border="0" src="https://getdimples.com/wp-content/uploads/Dimples-patent-figure-5-D-heart-e1414175415395.png" /></a><br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="getdimples"></a><a href="http://getdimples.com/">Getdimples.com</a> is a piece of software like ecofont for putting grey in the middle of a shape and not the edge. There is no home edition or trial; <span style="color: purple;">price by quotation</span> only which they state is linked to what you'll save.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="greencloud"></a><a href="http://www.obviousidea.com/windows-software/greencloud-printer/">Greencloud printer driver from obviousidea.com</a> is the only<span style="color: purple;"> free </span>printer driver that can spreads ink <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhAWPKFpATBlFqyNRN78Aw0ATww46JOZGNdNm97B420zAFwP0OV_eG1EEkKZp_ftdAZcktztXpwGP1eAywDzh7zu3nahd8kurIwb4kQPcIvm0A0R8thft_1E8DcK_7SdJfXkRIQIFanV-c/s1600/greencloud-printer-save-paper.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Greencloud free ink saving software screen shot" border="0" data-original-height="694" data-original-width="873" height="254" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhAWPKFpATBlFqyNRN78Aw0ATww46JOZGNdNm97B420zAFwP0OV_eG1EEkKZp_ftdAZcktztXpwGP1eAywDzh7zu3nahd8kurIwb4kQPcIvm0A0R8thft_1E8DcK_7SdJfXkRIQIFanV-c/s320/greencloud-printer-save-paper.jpg" title="" width="320" /></a></div>
more thinly, and without large acknowledgements printed onto every sheet. After a few trial uses it requries and email address to give a free licence. The free version only sends ten pages at a time to the printer. After a few hundred pages it updated automatically and now has an modest 8pt footnote on each sheet saying "printed with the free version of Greencloud". It works well with another free product called printwhatyoulike.com below. Greencloud makes no claim of patents or subtlety in spreading the ink thinner. They show unusual confidence in their product by their competitors on a public blog post.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
My inkjet printed photographs well enough, I thought, on a medium setting but still squirted enough ink to soak through the cheap paper a little, showing that I'm no expert on choices of ink and paper. This printer driver takes a few seconds to load on my XP machine - slower than the driver that came with the printer - but it has thee settings of paleness, a quick tick-box for printing in black ink only, and a neat way of ticking or crossing the pages you wish to print on a display. This screen shot from their web site is from an earlier edition with less icons for deleting pages and less clear options for saving ink. Combining two or four sheets onto a page is the same. The program is <span style="color: purple;">free but requires an email address to receive a free licence code after a few trial uses. A more corporate 27 version with more reporting is available to buy, and donations are encouraged.</span> The paid-for version of this printer driver for any program is more expensive than Leanprint for Word @ $20 and Priprinter personal edition @ £25. There are very few reviews on <a href="http://download.cnet.com/GreenCloud-Printer/3000-2088_4-75628717.html">C|net</a> <br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="greenprint"></a><a href="http://www.printgreener.com/">Greenprint 2 from printgreener.com</a> is <span style="color: purple;">$20</span> software for printing paler - no promises are made about how the print is made pale and whether it's better than any other shade of grey like the draft mode you've already got on your printer driver. There is a page preview that lets you delete unwanted pages, and the latest version will even highlight potentially deletable sections like web page headings according to C|net.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Staples customers may also get a free access code from their account managers, although I can't find a reference to it on the Staples site. I did get a free reward card a few weeks after signing-up to their site which says "want special offers? simply email us and include your member number", so maybe if I emailed I'd get offered greenprint as a freebie. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Greenprint 1 was available to free software hunters. <a href="http://download.cnet.com/GreenPrint-World/3000-2088_4-10799305.html">Reviews of the free Greenprint are on C|net</a> I tried the download on XP and got version 2 of the software, which installs a neat option of a precursor to your usual driver, coloured bright green, and slow to load first time in the day according to their video. All it does is preview pages together, which your software might do for you already. If you're printing from a web page or such it might be useful. Version 2 tries to show you an advert, but the link telling you how to advertise didn't work for me first time. I got an "unexpected error" first time trying to print, and uninstalled before trying anything more. Another link to a <a href="http://www.cnet.com/news/greenprint-offers-free-paper-saving-software/">CNet review</a> mentions the company's specially-commissioned condensed font called <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/greenprint-technologies-llc/evergreen/regular">Greenprint evergreen regular</a> which gets a <a href="http://blog.typekit.com/2007/12/05/green_font/">bad review here</a>.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiG0j_YxWxageZCQhomQlVHg6L7q_Wq1je5wGsUFKHFWZ7JZ3Suny07JgC9muUoz4Hpww7-HZB9WOPaZ3at2SfKZbxsbLskkkRnmNCtigE37kBtzqXO672827ZVgS0Gl6OY7ZeuTwJNRGbp/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screen shot of fineprint 8" border="0" height="320" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiG0j_YxWxageZCQhomQlVHg6L7q_Wq1je5wGsUFKHFWZ7JZ3Suny07JgC9muUoz4Hpww7-HZB9WOPaZ3at2SfKZbxsbLskkkRnmNCtigE37kBtzqXO672827ZVgS0Gl6OY7ZeuTwJNRGbp/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Fineprint 8 ink saving and pre-press software screen shot" width="298" /></a><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="fineprint"></a><a href="http://fineprint.com/compare-products" target="_blank">Fineprint.com</a> have a <span style="color: purple;">$50</span> program from the makers of PDF Factory, with a few features for people who do regular fiddly jobs. There is not much off for quantity. A <span style="color: purple;">free version with a purchase link printed as a bold footnote on each page <span style="color: black;">exists, possibly with a time limit, much as with the similar Priprinter software has a red purchase link.</span></span><br />
<div class="content" id="content">
This is how Fineprint describe the software:<br />
-Universal print previewer<br />
-Delete unwanted pages<br />
-Convert to grayscale<br />
-Lighten content to save ink<br />
-Remove blank pages<br />
-Crop pages<br />
-Edit text<br />
-Print multiple pages on a single sheet<br />
-Print electronic letterhead<br />
-Archive print jobs. The "lighten" function is a tickbox under "convert to greyscale" on newer editions.<br />
Fineprint gets a good review on <a href="http://uk.pcmag.com/fineprint-480/29374/review/fineprint-480" title="review of Fineprint software by Mathew P Graven">PCMag</a> and <a href="http://download.cnet.com/FinePrint/3000-2094_4-13451.html" title="user reviews of Fineprint prepress software for saving ink">high star ratings from C|net users</a>.</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiG0j_YxWxageZCQhomQlVHg6L7q_Wq1je5wGsUFKHFWZ7JZ3Suny07JgC9muUoz4Hpww7-HZB9WOPaZ3at2SfKZbxsbLskkkRnmNCtigE37kBtzqXO672827ZVgS0Gl6OY7ZeuTwJNRGbp/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br clear="ALL" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://img.informer.com/screenshots/1436/1436161_1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screen shot of ink guard software" border="0" height="287" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://img.informer.com/screenshots/1436/1436161_1.jpg" title="Ink Guard software for saving ink" width="320" /></a> <a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="inkguard"></a></div>
<a href="http://inkguard.net/">https://Inkguard.com</a> charge <span style="color: purple;">$10 a year</span> or $15 for 2 years, and by quotation for larger organisations. The url only works with "https", not "http".<br />
You can also claim a free year's licence if you<span style="color: purple;"> buy an ink cartridge from the US company</span>, <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/article/243583/inkgard_software_and_cartridges_provide_variable_benefit.html">reviewed here</a> which also sells industrial inks, pigment, CISS inkjet converstion systems and universal refills. <br />
The graphics of the program are brash, but claims of careful management of ink coverage to reduce overlap are subtle - very similar to Preton below.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://inksaver.com/images/inksaverui.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="Inksaver software control panel - like a printer driver, but with a slider control for the level of ink economy. There is a button to print a sample page. The image is animated, showing one or two slider settings." border="0" height="288" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://inksaver.com/images/inksaverui.gif" title="Inksaver software control panel" width="320" /></a></div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="inksaver"></a> <a href="http://inksaver.com/">Inksaver.com</a> sells Inksaver in english @ <span style="color: purple;">$36</span> for patent methods of making your type grey, running seamlessly in the background after a quick slide of a slider control and printing a preview if you want to show how each level of ink-saving would effect a sample paragraph: the samples are neatly printed on one page. <a href="http://www.medianavi.co.jp/">Medianavi.co.jp</a> is the parent site in Japanese with more variations, more support, and higher prices - <a href="http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=ja&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medianavi-direct.com%2FSHOP%2FMV14046_DL.html">this is a translation</a>. They also sell a program to help you cut the backgrounds off photographs. English and Japanese programs have a free two week trial. I've downloaded a version and found that it makes my black lazerprint address labels hard to read, with a mesh of little holes in the black, but to be fair the program is only intended for ink jets.<br />
<br />
Reviews on<br />
<a href="http://inksaver.software.informer.com/">http://inksaver.software.informer.com/</a> <a href="http://inkfarm.com/Printer-Software-for-Saving-Ink">Inkfarm.com/Printer-Software-for-Saving-Ink </a><br />
<a href="http://www.clicktoconvert.com/images/screenshot_iprint.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br clear="ALL" /></a><a href="http://pcadvisor.co.uk/features/printing/3291440/10-downloads-to-help-you-save-money-on-printing/">PCAdvisor.co.uk/features/printing/3291440/10-downloads-to-help-you-save-money-on-printing/</a><br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://img.informer.com/screenshots/3684/3684001_2.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screen shot of Adobe Leanprint software to re-format word excel and browser pages for printing, as well as trying to spread ink thinner" border="0" height="192" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://img.informer.com/screenshots/3684/3684001_2.png" title="adobe leanprint ink saving software" width="320" /></a></div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="leanprint"></a> <a href="http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/leanprint.html">LeanPrint from Adobe</a> is under <span style="color: purple;">$20</span> for one computer or by quotation for larger offices where it could work well. They don't make it obvious how long the free trial period is, but there is one. According to <a href="http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/small-business/3361106/adobe-leanprint-review/">PCAdvisor</a>, Leanprint only works on recent adobe software or microsoft word or excel as found in large corporate office, "<i>using patent-pending methods to redo the layout of documents and intelligent techniques to cut down toner consumption"</i>. A video shows text converted at a click to different column and margin sizes instantly, which is impressive (although a cheaper program called <a href="https://www.printecosoftware.com/">Printeco</a> claims to reduce white space in one click, with no thinning of ink). A PCAdvisor review finds the program rather unfinished except for the specific market of people who use Word, Excel, and recent Adobe products. If an organisation is using them, it could probably save a lot by using open source alternatives from <a href="http://osalt.com/">osalt.com</a> and think about ink later. On the other hand a lot of organisations have a religious devotion to Microsoft and Adobe, so this program could help them. It's also good for large formal organisations where someone sets the page layout centrally; this is a way of laying out the pages better.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="http://www.preton.com/images/PixelOptimiizer600.gif" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="Diagram of how Preton pixel optimiser claims to reduce the overlap of circles printed by your printer in order to save ink" border="0" height="220" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://www.preton.com/images/PixelOptimiizer600.gif" title="How Preton Pixel Optimiser Works" width="320" /></a><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="pretonsaver"></a><a href="http://www.preton.com/technology.asp">Preton.com/technology.asp</a> have a <span style="color: purple;">$33.60</span> program which claims to reduce overlap of circles made by inkjets and laser printers. Support and use on more terminals cost extra; business packages with ways of controlling your colleagues and setting defaults are sold by quotation. Preton have flirted with free offers but their preton.com/free.asp page now diverts to <a href="http://www.preton.com/pretonsaver_home.asp">Preton.com/pretonsaver_home.asp</a>, with a confusing "free download" label for the trail edition and charges for a second re-installation of the paid-for edition. <a href="http://download.cnet.com/PretonSaver-Home-Edition/3000-2088_4-10969436.html">Preton gets a 3 star review on C|net </a>.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
The program claims to measure saving, but you'd need a very accurate weighing machine under your printer and two identical long print jobs to compare it with default settings or a printers' built-in economy mode. I found one article that claimed 600 dot per inch (dpi) printing looks exactly the same as 300 dpi printing on normal paper, but uses more ink; you can cut costs straight away without special software just by changing the default to 300dpi. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<b>Experience: starting to work more often, but too much trouble.</b> I paid for a software licence to use this on my XP machine and old inkjet printer. I could not find a trial; I don't believe a trial is available, which begs questions about why not. The paid-for software produced a quarter-sized image of my page from Chrome, and then no image at all: it produced error messages to report to Preton. Used from Firefox, I just gets error messages with a screen offering to report them to Preton..I tried asking on their facebook site what page of their help files to look at, but have had no response. After a while I found <i>/ContactUs_Support.asp</i> on their web site... but the software started working anyway about a month after I bought it. CONTROL+ALT+DELETE on my Windows software shows it running in the background, "PRETON > LAUNCH" on my file menu gets it going a bit more, and if I select an ordinary printer driver from Firefox instead of Greencloud then I get an option to print a test card at six levels of ink saving. The settings are slightly more subtle than Greencloud. Slider switches instead of 0 + 3 fixed levels of ink saving in Greencloud. Three switches for text, graphics and photos instead of one in Greencloud. A day or two later the system stopped working again. Meanwhile I had printed a few letters at diffferent levels of ink saving and magnified them to try to understand this subtle patented technology. Nothing to see. Fairly random dots represent letters - not dots round the edge or anything so subtle.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Meanwhile I think some of the ink is running low so it's not a good test, with black coming-out as red on higher saving levels.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="http://www.ab-tools.com/en/software/printandsave/screenshots/screen01.gif" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screen shot of print and save from ab-tools.com" border="0" height="240" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://www.ab-tools.com/en/software/printandsave/screenshots/screen01.gif" title="Print and Save software for saving ink" width="320" /></a><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="printandsave"></a><a href="http://www.ab-tools.com/en/software/printandsave/">Print and Save from ab-tools.com</a> <span style="color: purple;">@ 30</span> has a slider bar for reducing colour intensity and options for deleting of combining pages from a print preview.<br />
<br />
The previous version 1.0 was free on a 14 day trial with a bundle of programs via something called IQinstall that gets bad reviews. Version 1.1 seems to be available from ab-tools.com directly.<br />
Features on the screen shot look the same as the free Greencloud program except that ink-saving is done on a slider bar instead of a choice of three economy settings.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://www.printfab.com/img/en/win_dialog_inkctrl.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screenshot of printfab" border="0" height="304" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://www.printfab.com/img/en/win_dialog_inkctrl.png" title="Printfab ink saving software screen shot" width="320" /></a></div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="printfab"></a><a href="http://www.printfab.com/en/Printfab%20Manual.pdf">Printfab</a> @ 50 after 30 days' trial is aimed at fiddly photo jobs including more colour profile information than I understand. Screenshots of the different pages look well-designed and clear, so a few of these fiddly jobs might justify the effort of learning how t use them. On the last tab of menus and towards the end of the manual it states <i>"Total Ink Maximum: with this control you can limit the maximum amount of ink applied per printer dot. Its purpose is mainly to prevent over-soaking of the paper and "bleeding"."<br clear="ALL" />"intensity of colours does not increase linearly with the amount of applied ink ... similar to a saturation curve ... in the upper region an application of 20% more ink results in only a 1% increase in colour saturation. By cutting back in this region, you can save ink quite effectively"</i><br />
<i>"Combined ink cartridge ... reduce the limit of the ink that tends to be used up first (in most cases the yellow ink) - this was the lifetime of the cartridge can usually be prolonged by up to 30%" </i>Reviews on C|net are positive except for the price.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6KQXAEdrWe8rJ5CrbcHpdCzpwAqjBzO0SXFazC3U5FcrVuSTe1M1K_tefouyJvjrqIi04bem7xm1UxLk_vlx4ICzereAVf4QkJFW_KIpd8957RyaAvyhd8MRs83mTELtxI2RPmlsqnNhe/s1600/temp.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screen shot of Pripinter print driver showing rulers and a magnifier for editing, and ink-saving options from about 5% to 70%" border="0" height="254" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6KQXAEdrWe8rJ5CrbcHpdCzpwAqjBzO0SXFazC3U5FcrVuSTe1M1K_tefouyJvjrqIi04bem7xm1UxLk_vlx4ICzereAVf4QkJFW_KIpd8957RyaAvyhd8MRs83mTELtxI2RPmlsqnNhe/s1600/temp.jpg" title="Priprinter pre press screen shot" width="320" /></a></div>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="priprinter"></a> <a href="http://www.priprinter.com/">Priprinter.com</a> - a bundle of pre-press features for regular fiddly layout and editing jobs - ink saving by printing thinner with protection for sharp edges, paper saving by easy deletion of unwanted pages, changing margins with very careful measuring guides and magnifiers. The more expensive version allows automated scripting, saving to pdf, and more detailed editing options. All these options take-up several menu pages which cost in learning time as well as purchase price, but for people who do this work regularly the learning-curve is less important.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
There are too many options to describe without understanding them well but the help file says this: <i>"Inks saving settings are available in the effects tab and optionally in the print preview pane. Ink saving can be controlled with level - from 5 to 70%. Where 5% is related to best quality and less ink saving. 70% gives best ink saving. Amounts in menu are for reference only and may not show results of real savings. However they are quite close. These levels was calibrated on our test pages, mostly made from standard text.</i><br />
<i>Real saving may vary from page to page, depending on contents. This is absolutely fine, since priPrinter tries to maintain quality of edges. Great number of such edges in relation to solid filled areas can reduce ink saving ratio. At the same time it allows to achieve better quality of the whole printout."</i><br />
<span style="color: purple;">Free</span> with an 18pt red diagonal message on the bottom right corner of your printed page to say "printed with priprinter trial software. Buy at http://pripinter.com", or paid-for with options from <span style="color: purple;">$25 to $95</span>. <a href="http://download.cnet.com/priPrinter/3000-2088_4-10835333.html" title="reviews of Priprinter ink-saving and prepress software">Priprinter gets near a 5 star review on C|net</a> <a href="http://www.priprinter.com/features.htm">http://www.priprinter.com/features.htm </a><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<a href="http://tonersaver.com/">Tonersaver.com</a> appears separate from inksaver. It is geared to recent microsoft operating systems and non-postscript printers. Ink isn't mentioned.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Free paper-saving software</span></span><br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Print driver software to help you spot waste pages is something you might have already. One artical suggests that Samsung printer drivers nowadays offer options for converting to black and white or line drawing. Subtler programs like Printwhatyoulike let you highlight bits to delete from the temporary draft on its way to the printer, making this an good first step to use before one of the grey-scale programs above. Hewlett Packard offer some of their printer driver as a free standalone product for printing web pages from Internet Explorer or Firefox called <a href="http://www.hp.com/global/us/en/consumer/digital_photography/free/software/printapp_index.html">HP Smartprint</a>. Mine installed itself in Chrome as well, but hasn't taken to Firefox. It turned my vegan shoe shop front page into a neat grid of pictures that would be a good start for something to send to customers with orders. It left-out one big picture and linked text from the top of the page, concentrating on the detailed grid of pictures further down that it suggested printing under a generic title layout.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
There are too many paper-saving print programs to list - some adapting print drivers and others adapting browsers for printing html pages off the screen. They come-up on the same searches as ink-saving programs, so there are also too many to ignore. This is a list of a few.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="https://www.printecosoftware.com/">Printeco</a> @ £5 has a free advertising supported version. It does not spread ink thinly, but does have a one-click refomatting option to reduce white space in a socument. I mean document. It works in windows 7 or 8 and doesn't mention Windows XP but seems to work on it. It prints from a limited number of programs and the free version puts a tiny advert for an ink company on the top right of your Word menu. There is a Chrome browser version. <a href="http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/printecos-streamlined-print-jobs-available-in-firefox/">C|net</a> gives them a mention and mentions plans for a future office suite.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="http://www.printfriendly.com/">Printfriendly.com</a> also tries to cut-out the complication of making printer-friendly versions of any page, so you can have an <a href="http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=site&url=http%3A%2F%2Fveg-buildlog.blogspot.com%2F" target="_blank">automatically-updated printer-friendly link for any page like this one for this site</a>, without having to write a CSS file. I find that <a href="http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=site&url=http%3A%2F%2Fveganline.com%2F">the draft for my commercial site - a vegan shoe shop</a> - doesn't show enough of the pictures I'd like to print for customers. When I last looked, it showed one big picture from the top of the page and left-out all the smaller ones. The page may have changed since then.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="http://www.printwhatyoulike.com/">Printwhatyoulike.com</a> is similar with more options by default. <a href="http://www.printwhatyoulike.com/print?url=http%3A%2F%2Fveganline.com">I find the draft for my vegan shoe shop a lot more promising at a first go</a>. You can also use it from their web site to process any url, so there's no need to download or install anything if you're using someone else's computer. I've taken to using it as a first choice, and hope to use something like Greencloud or Preton as well in order to make the images a bit paler and not to soak through the paper so much.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="http://www.clicktoconvert.com/images/screenshot_iprint.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img align="BOTTOM" alt="screenshot of Iprint paper saving software" border="0" height="320" naturalsizeflag="0" src="https://www.clicktoconvert.com/images/screenshot_iprint.jpg" title="Iprint paper saving software screen shot" width="298" /></a>More obscure are programs that add an extra printer driver with extra printer options, for any kind of print.<br />
<a href="http://www.clicktoconvert.com/iprint/">Clicktoconvert.com/iprint/</a> - free print driver that identifies empty pages, helps you remove pages from the total print queue, and makes 2-per-page easy. I've installed a copy as my existing print driver was quite basic, and now have an option to print 2 or 4 to a page or reduce size which I didn't have before. It loads like an alternative printer. Clicktoconvert.com sell cheap software for converting to html and pdf.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<a href="http://www.obviousidea.com/windows-software/greencloud-printer/">Obviousidea.com/windows-software/greencloud-printer/</a>is a similar free print driver that I've put in the top paragraph next to paid-for software because it has an option to spread ink more thinly <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: red;">Ink-saving fonts - first notes to self now expanded on other pages</span></span><br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Spranq eco sans saves ink compared to Deja Vu sans, the open-source Verdana-like screen font that it copies except for holes towards the middle of the shapes. Obviously, people print in grey or "draft mode", with holes evenly distributed throughout the shapes, but Spranq think their system emphasises the edges more, to aid readability. They think you hardly notice the grey, and the interest created by a new font might encourage you to use it anyway if you weren't using draft mode. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Century Gothic saves ink compared to Spranq Eco Sans, because it's light and spindley, with a bit of fatness to compensate. You need more narrower margins to fit the same text on a page at the same point size. It might also be tiring to read as paragraphs; one glance suggest it should be used on the bold setting, which is like a fat Helvetica. Spranq sell software for taking holes out of other typefaces, including Century Gothic if you want to pay; that's a more fair comparison.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
It's probably possible to compare serif typefaces in the same way: Ryman Ecofont is grey by default v Garamond which is black. Ryman do not sell software for making text grey in a readable way; they just give-away the one grey serif font made of lines along the pattern of the shapes to appear almost black.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
If you have £18 to spend you might try an all-grey font designed to look black at paragraph sizes: <a href="http://www.fontcraft.com/fontcraft/save-ink-with-our-free-inksaver-font/" title="Fontcraft Inksaver is designed to look black at ordinary point sizes but to save abuot 40% of ink coverage">Fontcraft inksaver</a> . Some free fonts are listed below.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Finally, one article states that inkjet printers should be left on standby. Turn the mains off by pulling-out the flex if you really have to, because plugging it in again might not trigger their re-booting cleaning cycle that wastes a lot of ink. Using an inkjet regularly is another way of saving this cleaning cost. Another article suggests the opposite: use a surge protector to avoid your printer using any trickle of current while on standby.</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.ecofont.com/">http://www.ecofont.com</a>/ - Spranq Eco Sans in grey with white holes down the middle </li>
<li><a href="http://www.rymaneco.co.uk/">http://www.rymaneco.co.uk/</a> - Ryman Ecofont serif in grey with white lines down the middle </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Gothic#Printer_ink_usage%20-Century%20Gothic">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Gothic#Printer_ink_usage -Century Gothic</a> (spindly sans serif) </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garamond">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garamond</a> (spindly serif. Spindly fonts need more space & less margin) </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_New_Roman">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_New_Roman</a> <br clear="ALL" /><a href="https://strategicsourcing.gov/print-wise"><br clear="ALL" /></a><a href="https://www.inkfarm.com/Recommended-Ink-Saving-Fonts---">Inkfarm.com/Recommended-Ink-Saving-Fonts---</a> is the best test and suggests Baskerville Old Face as a cheap font which fits <a href="https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-4/fine-typography/legibility">generally accepted ideas of legibility</a> in body text.<br clear="ALL" /><a href="https://strategicsourcing.gov/print-wise">Strategicsourcing.gov/print-wise</a> vaguely suggests the last three fonts on the list, but their other daft advice suggests everyone in a given area walks to a central printer so what do they know?<br clear="ALL" /><a href="http://www.which.co.uk/technology/computing/guides/save-money-on-printing/how-to-save-printer-ink/">A basic test from Which magazine</a> put Times Roman top, ahead of Calbri and then Century Gothic, with Trebouchet and then Arial behind - making you wonder why the public sector tends to use Arial. Bottom of the Which list of five are the screen fonts Tehoma and Verdana, unless you read them on screen, in which case they use no ink at all. Which did not test the two ink-saving fonts. <br clear="ALL" /><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/printercoms-font-cost-test-transcript.html">A basic test by Printers.com</a> put Century Gothic, Ecofont and Times Roman as the top three close competitors, Calibri noticably behind, and Arial among the screen fonts Tehoma and Verdana near the bottom. Franklin Gothic Medium was worst while Garamond, Ryman Ecofont and Greenprint Evergreen were not tested.<br clear="ALL" /><br clear="ALL" />The reason I call these basic tests is that nobody seems able to find an expert who can test for ink use, layout on paper, and readability all at once. Inkfarm's recommendation is based on a good hunch about legebility - the typeface part of it - but the others simply compare the same text in different fonts. As a result, they state the obvious: a light font uses less ink than a bold font; a grey font less than ink than a black font. The nearest they get to discussing readability is to assume the case of someone sending a short letter that easily fits onto a side of paper, so readability can be sorted out with a larger or smaller type size or margins after the short list of fonts has been chosen. Adobe's leanprint has gone further in suggesting a readable layout for less money, but other software and reviews stick to a given set of words in a situation where ease of reading is not important.<br clear="ALL" /><br clear="ALL" />We seem to live in a post-technical world. For example I was going to add <a href="https://www.fonts.com/font/greenprint-technologies-llc/evergreen/regular">https://www.fonts.com/font/greenprint-technologies-llc/evergreen/regular</a> (greenprint evergreen) to the list of ink-saving fonts until I read <a href="http://blog.typekit.com/2007/12/05/green_font/">this review</a>, which says it is just a condensed font done in a botched way with a tree-like gimmic for the T. <br clear="ALL" /><br clear="ALL" />One expert, <a href="http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/when-typography-saves-paper-and-ink-about-gulliver-century-gothic-ecofont.html">Gerard Unger who taught typography at Leiden University</a>, believed he had a more economic font for newspaper columns than Times Roman, and managed to sell it at extraordinary prices. (It is possible to download a typeface called Gulliver for free, but whether it's the same one or legal I don't know). Googling of "Gerard Unger" & "Gulliver" reveals that he thinks serif typefaces are more economical for a given level of readability for body text, but that tests are not sufficiently clear to callibrate with numbers. He also claims that an Adobe type management program can measure the surface area of a given font, but it turns out that his font expensive to buy - has anyone tweaked one of <a href="http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/09/05/25-font-management-tools-reviewed/">the cheaper font managers</a> to calculate the surface area of a typeface from a font file or a page of text? I don't know so I wrote <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/ink-coverage.html">an ink coverage page</a> about what I can google. Other people have used the one month free trail of a program called apfill to compare font coverage.<br clear="ALL" /><br clear="ALL" />Lastly, the anecdote about Leiden University halving their paper costs was after they changed the format of documents as well as the typeface to something just as readable for less money. Maybe they put all the text into average 10-word columns ragged right like a newspaper. So more technical information is needed to to a good test of layout, font, and readability together. It would be nice if college graphics departments offered this kind of information for free, but no.<br clear="ALL" /> </li>
</ul>
<br />
The address to use in a window envelope should be readable by machines - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCR-B">OCRB</a> is a classic machine font. <br />
In the UK where there is no formal address format, you can reduce ink by aiming for three lines as a default, and suggesting three lines on any boxes where people fill-in their addresses, so that the writer has to think what the essentials are, and may leave-off a bit of free text like a job title, a name of a trading estate, or a county. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
The body of the text should be readable by humans with serif typefaces generally found easier to read. 10-word ragged right columns work well for newspapers. Humans are those things that aren't computers, and include humans over 50 without their specs on who like 13-point, humans in two minds about whether they want to read the text or like reading at all, humans in bad light with the TV on as a distraction, and humans trying to read while commuting. Humans trying to deliver for Royal Mail as temporary staff, working when it's cold and rainy are particularly important. It shouldn't matter how the text is crammed on a page to suit humans, but fat text will need smaller margins or lower line spacing and so be less easy to read. A two column layout with a ragged right margin might be possible on an A4 sheet, although surprising, and Adobe's leanprint solution might be able to re-format automatically if that helps.<br />
<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">I have another post headed "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/80gsm-a4-paper-in-uk.html">paper</a>" about where to get cheap A4 80gsm paper</span></span><br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;">Bottled ink or toner is cheaper</span></span><br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<span style="font-size: small;">One day I will get the hang of using bottled ink - I did if for a while and found it fiddly. There's also a post-industrial lack of information on the web about what type of ink is made by who in the UK at how much per litre, but playing on ebay gets a good deal in the end.<br clear="ALL" /><a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Refill-and-Reuse-a-Printer-Cartridge">http://www.wikihow.com/Refill-and-Reuse-a-Printer-Cartridge</a> shows how to refill with a syringe; a search of "CISS" shows systems like medical drips for trying to top-up your cartridges as they run through flexible tubes from ink bottles - a good system once it's working and often used in print shops for posters or T shirt printing.<br clear="ALL" /><br clear="ALL" />Dry powder for toner cartridges - for example in the cheap duplex Samsung machine - can be re-filled by melting a hole in the cartridge with an apple corer and sealing-up with tape, but chips on the newer cartridges are increasingly awkward for refillers while the Samsing machine bellows-out unused toner into a special bin instead of putting it back into the cartridge. Lazer printers also </span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">had expensive drums inside, last time I used them, that are a chore to replace but leave lines and marks on the page when worn-out.</span> There is also a chance of embarrassment for someone who puts incompatible toner into a machine. So the process only suits people who have researched the best machine to try and refill and at least one refill company offers a list of recommended models including some of the Brother range, that can be refilled by pouring powder into a drawer and can print double-sided.</span><br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<i><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">This blog</a> comes from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="nonleather shoes boots and belts for vegans from Veganline.com in London, UK">Veganline.com, the site that sells UK-made vegan shoes online for vegetarians & vegans</a> The next post is about a different subject - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2014/12/nesting-software-for-next-to-nothing-to.html" title="nesting software for next to nothing: cheap 2D pattern optimisaion software for curved shapes">cheap Nesting software for 2D curved pattern cutting optimisation</a>, such as the pattern cutting needed to make flat sheets into shoe upper shapes</i> </div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com67London, UK51.5073509 -0.1277582999999822351.1912379 -0.77320529999998222 51.8234639 0.51768870000001777tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-46073134488815738752013-11-21T15:41:00.001+00:002018-10-19T11:59:08.192+01:00#1 How to Update Drupal 7 Modules and Drupal Corehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/6https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/#https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/#https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/?https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/8https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/6https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/+https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/(https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/zhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/)https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/(https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/)https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/(https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/)https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/9https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/9https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/9https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/zhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/?https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/(https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/)https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/3https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/4https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/7https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/!https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/2https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/6https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/qhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/[https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/6https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/9https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/]https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Jhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/'https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/_https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/,https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/
https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/khttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/?https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/1https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/&https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/xhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/uhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/5https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/0https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/-https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/yhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/;https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/:https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/=https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/whttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/bhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/"https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/lhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/.https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/chttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/thttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ghttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/nhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ehttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/shttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/hhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/phttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ahttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/fhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ohttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/rhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/mhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/<https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk//https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/dhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/ihttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/vhttps://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/>https://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-42642556504119071952013-11-18T16:11:00.001+00:002018-10-21T10:23:54.415+01:00Drupal 7 / Ubercart Video Tutorial 6 of 10: Configuring Shipping, Paypal and Taxes<head> <link rel="canonical" href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html"> </head> <div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/W1WSzGxuXE8" width="560"></iframe> <br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
</div><br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] <br />
<br />
Hullo and welcome to the 6th video tutorial in this ten part video tutorial series. I am Peter Yaworski the <a href="http://torontowebsitedeveloper.com/uc-series">Toronto website developer specialising in Drupal and Ubercart</a>. Like other video tutorials in this series, this is a collaboration between myself and the <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">Ubercart.org help pages</a>. <br />
So let's get into it. I'm going to assume that you have watched the other video tutorials in the series and that you are ready to set up payments and shipping as well as taxes. In order to do so we are going to go into...<br />
<hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;">Ubercart basic UPS and flat rate shipping</h3><i>>store >configuration >store address</i><br />
Make sure this is entered in if you are using UPS shipping quotes. If it is not, you will get an error; this is actually sent to UPS. Make sure this is actually set to UPS. With a lot of clients that I have dealt with have screwed this up. One time I screwed-up, actually: I want to record this. I kept on getting error messages until I realised that it was because of entering this store address that there were problems. Once we have done that we can go into - I'll start with shipping quotes.So let's go into our settings for shipping quotes<br />
<br />
<i>>store >configuration >shipping quotes > settings</i><br />
<br />
Two things I want to show you right here<br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Log errors dyuring checkong to watchdog</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Display debug information to administrators</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Prevent the customer from completing an order if the shipping quote is not selected</span><br />
<input name="name" type="submit" value="Save configuration" /><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span>Displaying debug information to administrators is hugely helpful. If you are having trouble setting up UPS and you go to <a href="https://drupal.org/community">https://drupal.org/community</a> forums, people might ask for this debug information to figure out what is going wrong. When you post that, be sure to wipe out your username and password from that information: you don't want to share that.<br />
<br />
Secondly, default pickup information. This is where the pickup will take place from UPS. You will see we have our shop information at 1 Main Street Hollywood California; it should match your store information, assuming that the pickup is in the same place. Again, this information is sent-out to UPS and you want to make sure that this is filled out correctly, or it will cause errors. But, that said, there<br />
01.53<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #073763;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Credentials</span></span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">You will have to contact UPS, and set-up your own account. They will send you a personal access key, a telephone number, a shipper ID, as well as a password. The great guys over at XXXX allowed us to borrow theirs for the making of this video tutorial series. You will see that at present we are in <i>testing server</i> mode. Later on when we go into production, we will make the connection live but right now we are using it in testing mode.</blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #073763;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Service options</b></span></span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">This again depends upon your agreement with UPS. We only want UPS ground to be available, but this will be where you choose what other services ... be sure to know what services you have set-up for your account and so what services are available to you.</blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #073763;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Quote Options</b></span></span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq">Each product in its own package or all products in one package. I'm just drawing your attention to that. The other information there is all dependant on your agreement with UPS, with the exception of<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">System of measurement</span><br />
<select> <option selected="">British </option></select><br />
Oh: sorry - not with the exception of system of measurement, but I am just drawing your attention to the fact that if this is wrong you will get errors. You have two options here - British and Metric, depending on your agreement with UPS. [2'45"]</blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #073763;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Markups</span></span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Rate markup type</span><br />
<select> <option selected="">percentage </option></select><br />
The last thing I wanto draw your attention to. If you want to mark-up your shipping costs, for various reasons, you have these uptions here. You can do that as a percentage, a multiplier, or additional dollars. So we could add $2 to every quote that we recieve from UPS. </blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #073763;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Label printing</span></span></h4><blockquote class="tr_bq"><select> <option selected=""> </option></select><br />
Then label printing. You can go ahead and set that up<br />
<input name="name" type="submit" value="Save configuration" /><br />
You will want to go ahead and save that configuration. (I don't need to because I've already got the information there.) </blockquote><hr align="LEFT" /><br />
But, before we move on, we will also add a flat rate quote<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Shipping method title</b><span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Flat Rate" /><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">the rate shown to admnistrators to distinguish this method from other methods<b> </b></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Line item label</b><span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Shipping" /><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">The name shown to the customer when they choose a shipping method at checkout<b> </b></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Base price</b><span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">$<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="14" /></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">The starting price for shipping costs</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>Default product shipping rate</b><span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">$<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="1" /></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Additional shipping costs per product in cart</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input name="name" type="submit" value="Submit" /></span><br />
<h3><hr align="LEFT" /><br />
Conditions</h3>We can go ahead and add a condition here. If you only want to sell within Ontario or you only want to offer a flat rate within Ontario, you can add a condition.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><u><span style="color: blue;">+Add condition</span></u><span style="color: blue;"> +Add or +Add and</span></span><br />
You will see conditions [set-up] when we go and look at tax, so I don't want to set one up here, but it it possible to do that, so that is always good. Then we are going to go back to Shipping Quotes, and add a weight quote [03'57"]<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;">Weight Quote</h3>Shipping method title<span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Weight Quote" /><br />
the rate shown to admnistrators to distinguish this method from other methods<br />
Line item label<span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Shipping" /><br />
The name shown to the customer when they choose a shipping method at checkout<br />
Base price<span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
$<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="20" /><br />
The starting price for shipping costs<br />
<br />
Default cost adjustment per pound weight (lb)<span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
$<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="1" /><br />
The amount per weight unit to add to the shipping cost for an item<br />
<input name="name" type="submit" value="Submit" /><br />
We'll go ahead and save that. <br />
<u><span style="color: blue;">+Add condition</span></u><span style="color: blue;"> +Add or +Add and</span><br />
Again, there can be conditions if you want to do them. And I believe that's all for our shipping quotes. [4'19"]<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
<h3>Payment methods set-up in Ubercart</h3><i>>store >configuration >payment methods</i><br />
<br />
Now we are going to to into our payment methods.<br />
You should have two payment methods if you have followed-through the other video tutorials in the series, <br />
<input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Paypal Express Checkout<br />
<input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Paypal Website Payments Standard<br />
<br />
If you don't have these, check your<br />
<i>>modules </i>and make sure that the Paypal modules is <input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />checked-off.<br />
<br />
Express Checkout is simply one button that will take your user over to Paypal to directly type-in their credit card information. Website Payments Standard progresses your order through Ubercart and then sends all the information to Paypal at the end when you checkout.<br />
In order to use the Express Checkout you have to have a business account with Paypal, so you want to go ahead and do that. <br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;">Currency Code</span><br />
<select> <option selected="">$ </option></select><br />
This is what the currency is being sent to Paypal. Interestingly, you can get additional modules now that make this [choice] per order, so that if customers are in the US they can pay in US dollars; in Canada they can pay in Canada dollars. I've just set-up a custom module for a client who wanted to do that so that his customers did not have to change currency.<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;">API Server</span><br />
<select> <option selected="">Sandbox </option></select><br />
Setting that up for the sandbox is what I am going to be doing - so https://developer/paypal.com . I suggest that you do this to test things out. I am obviously logged-in [to the site] but if you are not logged-in, there is a simple sign-up button and you just do that.<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;">API Credentials<br />
API Username<br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" /><br />
API Passwword<br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" /><br />
Signature<br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" /></span><br />
You need your API credentials so I supply the API that I got from the sandbox. I got them right here from <br />
<i>Sandbox >API and Payment Card Credentials </i>[a menu choice on developer.paypal.com] Right?<br />
<i>Sandbox >Test Accounts</i><br />
The other cool thing that they do is that they create test accounts, so I have "Test Business" and "Test Personal", so I can <br />
<br />
you would actually get these by logging into your business account with a profile. You click "my selling tools > API access" an [6'00]<br />
This is kind of important:<br />
Default PayPal landing page<br />
<input name="radio237984" type="radio" value="radio" />Create card submission form<br />
<input name="radio237984" type="radio" value="radio" />Account login form<br />
...because when you are using Paypal Express Checkout you don't want to make people have to open a [Paypal] account; you just want them to get their credit card information, enter that information, and get off [the paypal site] as soon as quickly. as soon as possible. Because e-commerce studies are showing that the longer you make the payment process the more likely people are to abandon their cart. So make this as seamless as possible. <br />
You also have to go over your settings in your Paypal Business account and make sure that it directs a user to a credit card information page and not to a login page. That is key because, you know, you don't want people to have to create a paypal account if they don't want to. So this is our ???? for express checkout.<br />
Checkout Standard<br />
This is a little bit easier. All you need is your paypal address that the money is going to be paid to, your currency code,.... I am using the default Paypal language which is US, and the sandbox. This is what we are giong to be doing. I should be using my sandbox email address. [7'00"] This one here. So cut and paste it into the page. <br />
Then obviously you want an itemised order<br />
Paypal cart submission method<br />
<input name="radio237984" type="radio" value="radio" />-submit the whole order as a single line item<br />
<input checked="1" name="radio237984" type="radio" value="radio" />submit an itemised order showing each product and description<br />
And then we can...<br />
<input name="name" type="submit" value="Save configuration" /><br />
This debug information. Again, it is a big time-saver. <br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><h3 style="text-align: left;">A conditional tax rule setup in Ubercart</h3><br />
<i>.>store >settings >taxes</i><br />
<br />
The last thing we are going to do is checkout the taxes. So when we were setting up we set a tax rate for Ontario. So that's that. Let me show you a key thing here.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />include product tax when displaying prices</span><br />
You will see when you set-up a product that there is the sell price and the display price. This display price will include taxes. You will want to have this checked to "off" if your taxes are conditional or for a specific area - lets say only for Ontario. Because everyone will see the price including tax, they won't know what's going on. You don't want that to happen. So I just wanted to draw your attention to that.<br />
We are going to add a condition<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><u><span style="color: blue;">+Add condition</span></u><span style="color: blue;"> +Add or +Add and</span></span><br />
...so we don't charge Ontario tax.<br />
Select the <i>condition</i> to add<br />
<br />
You will see here that we have [example conditions on the drop down menu for] orders, but order conditions to not include the provence or state. We have "order state", but this specifically refers to - you know: is it in process? is it completed? is it in checkout? That's the order state. Not the geographical region. So in order to do that you have to go to <i>data comparison</i><br />
Click<input name="name" type="submit" value="continue" /><br />
Now our data selector is the "order..." - ".." stands for additional information. Look for "billing address", and then "zone". This zone is the actual state, provence, or zone. That's what we are going to see when we hover over it. So we choose that. <br />
Click<input name="name" type="submit" value="continue" /><br />
And because we are choosing this data comparison, it is going to give us these pre-populated values that are available per Ubercart. So: there is our "Ontario".<br />
Click<input name="name" type="submit" value="save" /><br />
And now the taxes only apply to Ontario orders, and we are good to go.<br />
>content >add content >add product<br />
Why don't we add some <i>products</i>? Or a product. <br />
Name: Pete's awesome product<br />
Descritpion: Test product description (you don't need that but:: whatever)<br />
Image: Add a new file <input name="name" type="submit" value="Choose File" /><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="baily-the-dog.jpg" /><input name="name" type="submit" value="Upload" /><br />
We'll add Bailey like we always do.<br />
We have not set-up the catalog because that is going to be in the next video tutorial series, but we obviously need <br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">SKU</span><span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="123456" /><br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Sell price</span><span style="color: red;">*</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="14.99" /><br />
<br />
Now: weight. If you are using UPS weight quotes, you will have to add a weight. <br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Weight</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="5" /><select> <option selected="">lbs (pounds weight) </option></select><br />
You also have dimensions, right? Those are going to be your appropriate dimensions. Maximum package quantity: how many in a package can there be? So we are going to add up to 50 Baileys to our package. <br />
shipping settings<br />
<br />
Then shipping settings<br />
<br />
Again, this is from UPS and depends upon what [options] you have from UPS. I have a "customer supplied package" [which is one of their options]<br />
Default product shipping type It's going to be the store default, so we will set that as the store default. Default product pickup address.<br />
If you are having issues with UPS, getting shipping quotes, and then you realise that you did not have your store set up properly, <br />
...you would have to come back in here and set-up your default shipping address for your product. It does not get updated automatically when you change that store address, so if you have changed your store address and everything is set-up properly for UBercart but you can't work out why you keep-on getting errors from UPS shipping qutoes, it could be because your product is possibly not set-up properly. So check that out if you are having issues. <br />
Shipping weights we can obviously customise if we are using flat or weight quotes<br />
XML site maps does not set-up correctly until we have all that included.<br />
Publishing: I am going to put it to publish it to the front page to see what I've got available for ordering.<br />
<input name="name" type="submit" value="Save" /><br />
Now: this is actually a huge picture. What I did not show you is that I actually went into <br />
<i>>structure >content types >products >manage display</i><br />
This by default is just "image", so we can see the product ....<br />
....and just save it.<br />
As I showed you before, there is the list price, the cost, and the sale price, and the display price. Four prices. We actually don't want the cost [price], so that is [set to] hidden, we don't want the sale price: no. We want the sell price but we do not want the list price. We will be covering this in another video tutorial so bear with me. We will go ahead and we will save that. <input name="name" type="submit" value="Save" /><br />
And then just briefly: the teaser [abbreviated display to show with others: one of two buttons top right of the screen] <input name="name" type="submit" value="default" /><input name="name" type="submit" value="teaser" /><br />
We are going to get display price and sale price [as options]. So you are going to get two of those and you can remove whichever one you want to. And you have the descriptions, so that's fine.<br />
Let's go to the home page now: here is one our product. Like I said, display price is what this is; sell price is what this is. [on the teaser]. Go ahead and look at that. Here we have the display price, the sell price, the dimensions, and the add to cart button. [tests it] And we can [use paypal's] express checkout. And then this is what it [the paypal order form] looks like for you; you are right into it. You will see that it is trying to get you to set-up a paypal account. This is where those settings go right through with the payment screen; you do that on your own Paypal account as well as on Ubercart. <br />
This is the standard Paypal checkout. We choose "checkout". Obviously I can fill in my information here. <br />
These are our three shipping options, so obviously UPS is providing us with the quotes.<br />
This one is $17.52<br />
There is the flat rate <br />
There is also the weight quote.<br />
Obviously you would not provide all these to everybody who orders; you would just provide them with one quote. For testing purposes we are going to use UPS ground in order to complete our order. <br />
review order screen : you will see here that we are not getting charged any tax becausee we are not in Ontario. lets go and try that out. [changes address to one in Ontario]<br />
Obviously UPS is going to return an error because we have a Canadian postal code. You could use debug information to check that out. Shipping is $15. We review our order. And there is our Ontario tax - HST - because we are in Ontario and pay 1.95%.<br />
We are going to submit our order, and it looks alright in our sandbox. You will see here that we have the default currency - that's $USD - and I could use my sand box information to change that. <br />
So that's it - that's setting-up payments through Paypal, setting-up UPS flat rate and weight quotes for shipping, and setting-up conditional taxes.<br />
<br />
I hope this helped-out. The next video tutorial will most likely be coming in a week or two. As always, leave comments: I love to see the likes and dislikes on Youtube . As always, if you need additional help: drupal.org/forums. Ubercart.org/forums, or torontowebsitedeveloper.com We'll see you in the next video tutorial <br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<hr /><h3 style="text-align: left;">About transcription: </h3>I'm not connected with Ubercart or Peter Yaworski. I transcribed this from the Youtube video.<br />
<br />
One method is to use my favourite wisywig html editor squeezed onto the same screen as the you tube video. Play abour half a sentence at a time. Where the text and the form-filling on screen are the same thing, use the Wisywig's dashboard to add these components - http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp - as you go. Blogger's html editor - the default "compose" screen - doesn't have nearly enough of them. I hadn't heard of <a href="http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_legend">fieldset</a> before and now feel more clever, but my old html editor has not got a button for it so I've often left it out. Horizontal rules are just <hr> and easy to put-in by hand. Headings and typefaces are easy to put-in in Blogger.<br />
<br />
Youtube does have automatic captions on it from a voice recognition system, but they don't work on this particular accent. I don't know if an author can add captions; if so I'm happy for these to be glued-in. <br />
<br />
When the first useful draft is done, show it on screen as raw HTML, and cut/paste to the raw HTML editor of your blog. Don't be put-off by the hideously complex html that it is converted to; it needn't be so complicated. That's what worked for me on Blogger.com, which is free and allows adverts like Qadabra or Adsense or whatever. Example.wordpress.com only allows their own adverts, which I don't know anything about. I wouldn't go spending money on a domain name because the ad revenue was only a cent or so a day and then ceased altogether from Qadabra, so it isn't really a living even without buying a domain. The main motive for doing this is so that nobody else has to repeat the same work, if their concentration isn't great or english is a second language and they need the nitty-gritty text. Oh and I get lots of pages on which to mention a shop selling vegan shoes from the UK.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-41779762836700780712013-11-15T20:41:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:23:56.109+01:00Drupal 7 / Ubercart Video Tutorial 10 of 10: Launcing your sitem Ubercart Reports, Drupal Themes and Add-on Modules<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QSPuiSMup0c" width="560"></iframe><br />
<div style="text-align: left;"><br />
Hullo and welcome to the tenth video tutorial in this ten part video tutorial series about creating ecommerce sites using Drupal and Ubercart. I am Peter Yaworski, the <a href="http://torontowebsitedeveloper.com/">Toronto website developer specialising in Drupal</a>. Like all the video tutorials in this series, this is brought to you as a collaboration between myself and the <a href="http://ubercart.org/">Ubercart.org</a> team who thought it would be a great idea to have a <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">video tutorial series</a> out there to help people get their ecommerce sites off the ground. [00'21"]<br />
<br />
So, just before we finish-up, we are obviously going to covering going-live. We are going to be looking at some reports. And then we will check-out taking your site to the next level.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">Next series: cron developer tools, a theme, ssl connections, mass product import, and views.</h3><blockquote class="tr_bq">Just recently, Ubercart and I started having some conversations, and we have decided to move forward with the second video tutorial series, in which we are probably going to look at things like <i>theming</i> - theming your site - so we will look at less <i>css</i> [style sheets]; we'll probably look at some <i>cron</i> developer tools, we will probably walk through a <i>theme</i> that we are going to show you here, which was specifically developed for Ubercart. Then we will also be stepping into the world of <i>ssl</i>, so how to secure your site if you going beyond [the option of] <i></i>Paypal. We will be looking at modules like <i>feeder modules</i> to import masses of products: if you have a few thousand products you obviously don't want to create those one at a time. The <i>feeds</i> module will help you out with that, so we will probably have a dedicated video on that. We will also be looking at some advance <i>Views</i> - how to use the <i>Views</i> module. Obviously, being the most downloaded module, that is something pretty important.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/1-how-to-update-drupal-7-modules-and.html">Oopps! I forgot to show you how to update your site in this tutorial (ie Drupal core and modules). This will definitely be the first topic in series 2.</a></blockquote><h4 style="text-align: left;">This Ubcart video tutorial series</h4><ol><li>So that will be coming out, hopefully pretty soon. I look forward to it. But, until then, this is just a brief re-cap on this series. In video one we first <b>configured our server</b>, <b>created the database for drupal</b>, created a <b>database user</b>, <b>uploaded our site</b> and <b>got Drupal installed</b>. Wham, bam, thank you ma'm.</li>
<li>In the second video tutorial we talked about stepping back from our site to talk about some common Drupal terminologies including <i><b>blocks</b>, <b>themes</b>, <b>modules</b>, <b>nodes</b></i>: just things that you are going to need to know when you are in the Drupal world.</li>
<li>In the third video tutorial we started looking at some <b>module functionality</b>. Such as looking ad <b>Drupal.org</b>, looking at what you need to know. Downloading those modules and getting them up onto our site.</li>
<li>In the fourth video tutorial we started <b>configuring</b> those modules. That was <b>everything but Ubercart</b> [which is a module]. Specifically we looked at a lot of <b><i>search engine optimisation</i></b>, so, if you have not watched that video tutorial, go back and look at it because you want Google to drive traffic to you.</li>
<li>In the fifth video tutorial we started looking at <b>Ubercart itself, and configuring some minor changes</b>. I don't know - <b>store name</b>, <b>your store email address</b>, that kind of thing.</li>
<li>Then we stepped into the real vegetables of everything in <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">video tutorial six</a>, where we started looking at configuring <i><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html"><b>shipping quotes</b>, <b>flat rates</b>, <b>paypal, taxes</b></a>.</i></li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">And then we took that a step further in video tutorial seven</a>, where we began configuring <b><i>products</i></b>. We have <b><i>shippable products</i></b>, <b><i>purchased roles</i></b>, <b><i>downloadable products</i></b>, and we looked at the <b><i>catalog</i></b> that starts, or rather comes with Drupal.</li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">In tutorial 8</a> we took a sidestep and we started to look at the world of <i><b>Views</b>.</i> We looked at <b><i>taxonomy term</i></b> pages with the <b><i>Views modules</i></b> and then started looking at [the question] "<b>how do we do that for our <i>catalogue</i>?</b>". And obviously <i>Views</i> is pretty powerfull; it is the number one module downloaded. So there is a lot of power there, and that is actually something that is being incorporated into Drupal 8 which is pretty exciting. So, with the next major release of Drupal, you are going to have <i>Views</i> in there [the core code]. So: a good thing to know how to use.</li>
<li><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">In the previous video tutorial - video tutorial 9</a> - we looked at <b><i>product kits</i></b>, <b><i>store stocks</i></b>, <b><i>order states</i></b>. Just getting a little bit more of a fine-grained control over our website before we launched. So that takes us to video tutorial number ten we are actually launching. So that is pretty exicting. [03'11"]<br />
<br />
Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
</li>
</ol><hr><h3 style="text-align: left;">Simplest payment method: a remote-hosted checkout such as Paypal Payment Express</h3><i>>store >configuration >checkout</i><br />
<br />
So, to jump right into that, the major things we are going to have a look at are <i>payment methods.</i><br />
So we will go over to >configuration and we will have a look at the payment methods that we have setup right now. So right now we have <i>Paypal Payments standard</i>. This is the actual checkout where a customer is providing information on your site. Now, if you do not have <i>ssl</i> set-up, it might not be a good idea to do this, because you are actually taking personalised information on an unsecured page. So what I prefer to do when I am doing <i>paypal</i> and I do not have an <i>ssl</i> installed is just to have <i>Paypal express checkout</i>.<br />
<br />
The way that you do that is to go to<br />
<i>>store >configuration >checkout</i><br />
Here we have enabled checkout. [checkbox: Enable checkout. Disable this to use only third party checkout servicesn, such as PayPal Exress Checkout of Google Checkout} So if we disable this, we can only use third parties like the <i>Paypal Express Checkout</i>. So, I tend to do that. [[save configuration]<br />
<br />
It is a personal preference, however there are some concerns about collecting personal information on an unsecured page. It is entirely up to you: this provides the option to do that.[4'45"]<br />
<br />
So now if we step back, over to our >payment methods, we can go and - we may as well uncheck that cand [save configuration] - and now we can go to the<br />
[link in a line of text "settings"<br />
settings for paypal express checkout. Now, if you remember, we were using the <i>sandbox</i>. So we want to change that [dropdown menu, live or sandbox] to live. At the same time we want to make sure that our paypal email address is updated. [5'00"] So: I am at torontowebsitedeveloper dot com. And then my API credentials [from a box of three text boxes ] these are all on my test site. So, what you are going to do is to log in to your live account. It is going to look something like this. It will be in "my account" [tab]. And you awnt to go to "profile. Then when you are in profile you want to go to "my selling tools". Here you are going to have API access, so you are going to hit "updtate". This will typically say, you know, we need to verify your account, so once you have verified that, you are going to come here and you are going to request API credentials , and then it will actually provdie you with your API information. Then you will take this, and you will copy it back to your site. So once you do that you are going to have [5'53] live server, you are going to have your [api] username, password, and signature. Here you are going to use the credit card submission form. This ensures that when users are checking-out, they don't have to have a paypal account, and then these [check] boxes here ...<br />
...these are what is going to show up after the user provides their payment. So they will be brought to your site. back to your site and you will see these boxes.<br />
<br />
we do have shipping options, so we want to be able to allow the user to check that<br />
we don't want them necessarilly to have a company name, because not everyone is going to be associated with a company<br />
we do want a contact phone number<br />
and we are going to allow them to enter some comment text<br />
so we will go ahead and [save configuration button]<br />
<br />
now I'm just going to put my [site] back to sandbox [dropdown option] because I am obviously not going to be doing all that.<br />
And so we are good.<br />
<br />
The next thing that we are going to check-out [consider] is our actual shipping quotes and making sure that our actuall UPS module is configured to "live". So we do that but - obviously - having our information here. that we got from UPS when we were setting-up our account.<br />
<br />
We are actually going to put our server mode [drop down on this page] into "production". And then we would [button] save our configuration [7'00"] and that way our link-up with UPS is complete. We are essentially live on payments and shipping. So that's that. Once you do that, your site is live and ready to go.<br />
<br />
<hr><h3>Testing with a real $1 order</h3>What I personally like to do, once I have done that, is actually test an order. So I do that using Chrome. I hit control+shift+N and this will bring-up an <i>in private browsing screen</i>. The reason why I do that is because I like to keep my logged-in site , in case I need to change something, but also to be able to have the anonymous user browsing experience. So here I will go back to <i>uc.torontowebsitedeveloper.com</i> , and now it doesn't recognise m e as being logged-in. So, once I do this, I will go ahead and I will [add to cart]<br />
<br />
Sorry. Before I do this, I usually change the product [price] to $1. So I would come in here. I would go to super saver. Edit this product .... looking at the product kit there. Super awesome product. Edit this. [sell price]. And we will make this $1. You will just want to note what your original price is. [save] The reason why I do this is because (ha- we need a product type. Of course] The reason why I do this is because I always like to walk through, actually ordering a product from an anonymous user point of view, to make sure that we don't have any errors. So I will actually go forward and pay paypal, complete the order, and do the full payment processing, to make sure that I understand the user experience, and that there are no hidden issues throughout that [experience] that I might not be aware of if I do not actually complete an order. Because it is only $1, paypal is going to take their 33 cents from me, but I am going to have that peace of mind that the site that I am building - either for myself or for a client - is working properly. So I am going to go ahead and [add to cart]. [9'06"] Obviously you want to do this before you actually launch the site or make it accessable to people because you don't wan them buying a product for one dollar. Or, do it in the middle of the night. So, here I am going to do this with a test site. I am going to walk you through, just so you can see what it looks like. But you would obviously be doing this on a live site. And checking out. [9'30"] Alright. So you go ahead and continue. And this is what I was referring to before when we configured that checkout-page. We have configured paypal so that they bring us back here. Here is our contact phone number that we are going to enter. [order comments] "great site, looking forward to recieving my products". [button: continue checkout] Finalise by submitting. [button: continue order] There we go. So we are going to return to the front page. Now, if I minimise this, [10'21"] I can go back, checkout [consider] my store orders, and I can see here that I have got a dollar; I can go into my actual order settings, checkout what is going on, and I can go and I can finalise the payment, and we are good to go.<br />
<br />
So: that is walking you through the order. I highly recommend that you do that just to check that nothing is problematic. Obvously, now we would go through, finalise the transaction, notify the user, make sure that she knows that everything is working properly, but you can do all that [without a video]. So that's it. Once you do that, you are live. You are ready to go. Your site is online. So: in the afternoon that it took you to watch this entire video tutorial series , you went from nothing but having Drupal and Ubercart to having your ecommerce site online and that is the power of using ubercart and using Drupal, and leveraging the drupal community. [11'20]<br />
<br />
<hr><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">Reports in Ubercart</h3><div style="text-align: left;"><i>>store >reports >customer reports</i></div><h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3>The last thing that I want to show you, just quickly, is - I lie: a couple of things I am going to show you.<br />
The last thing about Drupal is <i>reports</i> >store >reports >customer profile [for example]<br />
thiese are pretty nifty; pretty handy. You can actually checkout here. These are the different customers that have placed orders, right? So you can see that I have got one order showing zero because we have just created it and we have not actually finalised it. Zero products because not completed - right? I am not entirely sure why I am seeing my name twice here. Obviously the customer is different. But it is the same information. So if anyone has got any thoughts on that, leave a comment; let me know. I just could not spend the time trying to figure it out<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">Ubercart products report</h4>In terms of some of the other - some of the other powerful reports that you have got: you have got your <b>products report</b>. This is nice when you really start selling on Ubercart. . because you can see how your products are doing, what is the highest selling, as opposed to - you know - the worst selling. It also breaks it down by your specific SKUs, so, if you remember, we had Pete's CD Y: that was yellow. If we look down here we have [12'17"]<br />
aanother CD so if we want to compare different colours, to see what is most effective, it is possible to do that. We also have the ability to customise these reports, so if I want to look at specific dates I can do that. If I want to look at a particular comment, or whether it is pending, or, you know, mayber there is something: people are abandionding the checkout because they have got to see - on certain products: you now - why is that?<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">Ubercart sales report</h4><br />
<b>From there we have got the sales report</b>. Obviously a very important report where you can actually checkout your dollars over the years, and where our orders status is at, so we can checkout how many are abondoned. So if we have an issue going on here, we can start looking at that process: why are people not understanding; why are they leaving? There has got to be something there. So we can really nail that down. Again, you have the opportunity there [13'00"] to customize these reports and look at things specific to what your needs are. Specific months. Specific years. And the order statuses, right? Probably not earth-shattering, but the last thing I am going to show you is the sales tax report. Remember we set up our tax report for Ontario HST [Ontario HS Tax] So you can see that if we look back here, I have got my total taxable amount and the total tax collected, mainly for when you are doing your income taxes. So those are pretty much the reports. Pretty straight forward. Nothing too earth shattering. Hopefully they help. I just wanted to touch on them because obviously they do come with ubercart and they are helpful, so you should know about them.<br />
<hr><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">A theme for Ubercart</h3>Last thing: we will just head over to Drupal.org. Like I said, there is a couple of things that I want to show you here. Go over to <a href="https://drupal.org/project/adaptivetheme">https://drupal.org/project/adaptivetheme</a>. Adaptive theme. We have been using Bartik [the name of a theme]. Drupal Core is kind of ugly to be honest with you. And if you look at it: you know you are looking at a Drupal site. Not necesarily something that you always want to have. So what I have gone ahead and got Adaptive Themes [14'03"] It is a kind of a <i>base theme</i> that you can use, and make <i>sub themes</i> off of it. A sub theme that has been created is called the AT commerce theme. If you want to go ahead and download this x.3.1 version, you can upload that to your site slash sites /all/themes , just as we did with our modules in our fist video tutorial or second or whatever it was [the admin user interface allows you to install these things without thinking about uploading and doanloading nowadays as well] You are going to get the Adaptive Theme, and you are going to get - er - AT-commerce , and you are going to download this one as well. So I have gone ahead and I have done that. So we will step over to our >appearance, and you will see that I have got AT Admin AT Commerce AT Core, AT Sub Theme - right? This all comes with the adaptive theme . So I am going to enable as default the AT Commerce [15'01"]<br />
<br />
So now, if I go back to my home page, I have just drastically changed the look and feel of my Ubercart or my Drupal and Ubercart site, simply by enabling this new theme. I can click into my product here. I can see that it is theming different things. It has got a different look and feel. [Baily the dog looks very fetching] That is the power of Drupal. You can go on to... - just as you have got modules, you go to these themes, and you can checkout those themes that you like, and that have a different look and feel, and [going to a theme called Binelli ] here, - oh: not a good image - but this is the look and feel that I can install just by enabling a module. Then I can start tweaking it and playing with it. I just wanted to give you a flavour of that because this AT Commerce theme is specifically designed for Ubercart, and it has a lot of powerful things. I am not going to walk through it here, but we are going to be looking at it [or walking through it] in series two. Take a look at it. Maybe you want to play with it.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">Responsive: works on a mobile</h4>The one cool thing that I like is this <i>responsive theme</i>: so you can see that my image here [of a the dog Bailey] is shrinking. If I stretch this [browser frame] out, obviously it has gotten [german english] out to the large size, right? So that is pretty cool. <b>That is a mobile friendly web site., that you have, just by installing a new theme.</b><br />
<hr><br />
Lastly, as I mentioned before, the power of Drupal is that there is this community that is (kind of) helping you out. You can go here and you can [16.36] I go to download and extend; I look at my module categories, and you will see that thre is an e-commerce category. If I click in to that - what is your first module that you see right there? Ubercart. Super-powerful! And then there are a lot of cool modules that I can add-on there. So if I wanted to add-on <i>"recurring payments and subscriptions"</i>, I can do that by grabbing tha module [...] enabling it [17'00"] and then more often than not you will see that there is documentation and that is going to help you walk through and in eenabling some of these things. So that is one good one. If we go to the second page, I think there is <i>UC Variable Prices</i> on there. You will see that UC Variable Price is good for donation sites. If you want a person to pay what they can, enable this module, and you are "off to the races", right?<br />
<hr><h3 style="text-align: left;">Fedex has a shipping module too</h3><br />
You have also got <i>FedEx Shipping</i> . We have done UPS but if you have a Fedex account you can download this module and install that, right? [ in the UK: there is no Royal Mail support for such stuff and best prices depend on other couriers as well as Royal Mail. Royal Mail is best for export, but that depends on converting a customer's country to shopping cart that makes it obvious or default to say which of the four Royal Mail zones she lives in. No such module exists. One advantage of Ubercart here is that it does not have a lot of higly paid staff claiming that it works "out of the box", because neither Ubercart not Commerce is good for UK shipping; it is a question of finding the least bad for complex work-arounds, and a smug sales person saying that something works "right out of the box" just makes the problem more frustrating for users of Commerce.<br />
<br />
And then lastly what we are going to the checking out [viewing] in the second [video tutorial series] is [module Ubercart SS. A super awsome module. Enable that and it will secure your pages. Obviously a huge Caveat here: it does not work with the overlay module. I am not too fond of the overlay module, but if you are, and you use it, you are going to have problems there. <br />
<hr><br />
That's it! That is essentially the video tutorial series. I have kind of walked through everything; I have given you the recap on what this is all about, so hopefully this helps you. Hopefully your site is launched and is making you a little money. And we will see you [lie: it is a one way camera] in video tutorial series number two which should be coming up pretty quickly. Take care.<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<br />
<hr align="left"><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-8116080380964960382013-10-26T19:59:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:23:57.783+01:00Drupal 7 / Ubercart Video Tutorial 9 of 10: Creating Product Kits, Store Stock and Order Status<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cX8wpEzhFt8" width="560"></iframe><br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x#S1E9">http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x#S1E9</a></span><br />
[related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/shopkeeper-puzzle-how-products-are.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/shopkeeper-puzzle-how-products-are.html</a> which is about attributes from a stall-holder's point of view]<br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">In the 9th Drupal video tutorial of this series, we continue developing our Ubercart site by</span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">configuring <b>product kits</b>,</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">setting up <b>store stock</b> and</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">looking at our <b>order states</b>.</span></li>
</ul><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">This is the final video tutorial before we actually test our site and push it live.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8wpEzhFt8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8wpEzhFt8</a></span><br />
<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<hr>Hullo and welcome back to the ten part video tutorial series on using drupal for ecommerce with ubecart. I am Pete Yarorski, the <a href="http://www.torontowebsitedeveloper.com/">Toronto website developer specialising in Drupal</a>, and like all the video tutorials in this series, this is brought to you in a collaboration between myself and the <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">Ubercart.org</a> team.<br />
<br />
Following-up on the previous video tutorials....<br />
We have gone-ahead and created our site. [0'23]<br />
We are pretty close to having it finished and launched. [0'25"]<br />
But there are still a few things we need to cover, which include<br />
-<b>setting up product kits</b>, and<br />
-<b>stock notifications</b> .<br />
<br />
In this video tutorial, I hope without talking too long, we will cover<br />
-checking-out an order, and covering the<br />
-order status workflow [from a shopkeeper's or a programmer's point of view].<br />
<br />
So, with that [introduction], let's dive right into it [the rest of the video].<br />
<hr><h3 style="text-align: left;">Product Kits <b><br />
</b></h3>The first thing we are going to do is take a look at setting-up product kits. [00'46"]<br />
<br />
If you are not familiar with product kits: essentially what they are is an item in your store that will pull-in various Ubercart products that you have already created, so [for example] you can specify two products [as a customer] and specify that specific discount for your customer [as a shopkeeper or developer]. [01'02"]<br />
<br />
I'll show you that in a quick second, but, just briefly, we can go to [admin] store>configuration>products>product kit settings, and we can set the default for when we are setting up a product kit.<br />
<br />
The three different options are essentially that you can create a</div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li><b>unit</b>, and <b>not list the components</b> when you check-out, or</li>
<li><b>product list</b> and <b>components</b> when you are checking-out, or</li>
<li>put <b>all the parts in to the checkout</b> and <b>let people choose individual parts</b> as they want to.</li>
</ol><div style="text-align: left;">We are going to leave it [the default setting] as a unit and let people see the individual productst as they order. [1'30"]<br />
<br />
<b>Now, to add a productkit to our site</b> we are going to<br />
content>add content>product kit<br />
Just briefly - when we do this: remember that we have set-up our specific urls when we went to<br />
configuration> search and metadata > url aliases > patterns<br />
We set these up for product kits as well, so if you don't have the proper-looking url down here at the<br />
content>add content>product kit> ?create product kit?>pathauto settings [near the bottom of the page on the left], you can go over there and set that up.[01'56"]<br />
<br />
Now this:<br />
[name in the name box] will be "Super Saver"<br />
[description in the description box] "buy two products and save big"? - I dunno. Give it a proper description, based upon what you are actually creating, but, again, for this video tutorial we are not going to do that, and,<br />
[image in the image box] as always, we are going to put Bailey [the dog picture] up on our site.<br />
[How is this product kit handled by the cart?<br />
-as a unit<br />
-as a unit; list individual products - default option<br />
-as individual products] We will leave this as the default settings.[2'21"]<br />
<br />
[Products<br />
-download of purchase<br />
-Pete's awesome product<br />
-Pete's super awesome Drupal book<br />
-Pete's super awesome T shirt] And what they're going to get - any customer that purchases this kit - is going to get our Drupal book and a Drupal T shirt. [because they are highlighted on the form][2'26"]<br />
[list settings] We don't have to change the list settings.[2'32"]<br />
[shipping settings] Interestingly we don't have to change the check-box for "make product shippable"<br />
So you'll see, when I save this, that I will get an error-message. I will explain that to you when we do that.<br />
[menu settings]<br />
[meta tags] Beyond that, you know, we can add some seo tags.<br />
[revision information]<br />
[url path settings]<br />
[xml sitemap]<br />
[comment settings]<br />
[authoring information]<br />
[publishing information] The rest of this ought already to be set-up<br />
<br />
[published]<br />
[promoted to front page] We just need to promote to the front page so we can see it.<br />
[sticky at the top of lists]<br />
<br />
So, now we have got our image up there, let's go ahead. We will press save and continue.[2'54"]<br />
<br />
[Notice: undefined index. shippable in uc_usps_product........line_134. ] Here is the error message that I warned you about. It is usually in relation to an undefined variable.<br />
So looking at line 134 of this module's code, it just relates to the form of code for UPS [United Parcel Service], it just relates to<br />
the form settings: whether or not "shippable" is set. Because the "shippable" setting is not enabled for a product kit, it looks as<br />
as though [that is why] we are getting that error. If you ran into something like this, it would be a good time to post an issue on Ubercat's<br />
mainenance page on Drupal.org. I have not gone-over to check whether this might be already addressed, or already pointed out: that kind of thing. So: it won't affect<br />
us, but if you are doing this, and you get that error message, that's the issue.[3'36"]<br />
<br />
The reason why we are not pressing "save and continue" is that we have the opportunity to apply discounts here.<br />
So if we bought these two individual items, our total would be $109, but if we want to add a heavy discount here for users, we can do this:<br />
[Total price box]$70.<br />
We'll make that $70, and then if we press "save and continue", that discount is applied to both products. Not necessarilly evenly, but we can change that if we like to.<br />
Actually, it looks like it [the default reduced price on each item] is probably a percentage of their costs, so it could have been applied evenly.<br />
Obviously, you can change around the quantity and the discounts if you want to, but now we can go over to preview.<br />
<br />
And of course we get tonnes of errors. This is not necesarilly a good thing. We don't really need to preview; I meant that we can go to view.<br />
There when we are reviewing the product, we see $70. The two products that we are specifically getting here, the image for our product, and then we had an attribute on the awesome book, so we can choose whether to use that as well. We will go to yellow.<br />
[add to cart button] And now if we added this to our cart we can see here that we've got $70, we have got the colour yellow, and our two products are listed.[4'46]<br />
So that is creating a product kit. It is pretty straightforward; it's pretty easy to to, and it's a nice convenient way for you to add products to your site for users, obviously, not to have to purchase the items individually.[5'00]<br />
<hr><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">Stock</h3><br />
From that, which is a pretty basic look at those [kits], we are going to look at stock notifications<br />
Just briefly, we will step into Pete's Awesome Product here. Actually: I am sorry. Before that,<br />
we are going to go to<br />
<br />
<i>store> configuration>stock notifications</i><br />
<br />
This is just the default setting for the stock notification system itself.<br />
[send an email when stock reaches a certain threshold] we will send an email when stock reaches a certain threshold, because I want to maintain my stock levels, so I want to know that.<br />
There is the subject [of the email] that I would get, and the text.<br />
[presses "save and continue"]<br />
So: pretty basic; nothing complicated.[5'35] We'll save those configurations,<br />
[content> ] and now if we go to our content, we can actually enable stock notifications for a specifict product.[5'43] So...<br />
[looking at a list of products with links] What we were going to look at was Pete's Awsome Product, I think,<br />
[clicks on the link for Pete's Awsome Product]<br />
[clicks on the view |edit tab on the product page] and we will edit this, and when we edit the product we will see that there is a<br />
[product | attribute | features | stock ] tab for stock, so we will go-ahead<br />
[check box under heading "Active"] So we will check "stock". This check-box would normally be un-checked [6'00"], but we will go-ahead and check that off.<br />
[box under heading "STOCK] And we will add our stock [amount] here. I have already created an order, and that is why I am at minus two. So let's say that I have 100 in stock<br />
[box under heading "THRESHOLD"] and my threshold is 10. So when I have 10 left, I get an email that says "you are getting low".<br />
[button "save changes"] So I save those configurations,<br />
[screen returns to the view wnd edit product page] and review the product. Nothing changes here for the product the customer or anything. They have no idea what your stock levels are at, and ubercart by default will allow customers to continually purchase the item, regardless of the stock level. This can be a good or a bad thing. This can be a good or a bad thing for you. You know, if you are dealing with a physical product, you could have something that goes to back-order, but you don't really want them to know it, but then you don't really know when it is going to ship, and you can create some issues there. [06'50']<br />
<br />
If you are looking for a solution where customers can't purchase if there is no stock, there is this module, which is the out of stock module. [7'00"] This will replace the add to cart button with an out of stock message. The good thing about this is that customers can no longer order something that is out of stock. The bad thing is that you don't know if someone is trying to order a product that is out of stock; you are not really sure what your demand is. Nonetheless, I will briefly show you here: I have installed the module to give you some kind of idea of what we are looking at.<br />
modules><br />
So I scroll-down to Ubercart Extra modules... Out of stock notifications [button: save configuration]. Then we will enable this. [enables module].<br />
Then when I go back to my product [view | edit screen], I have 100 in stock, so the customer knows that. And if you go-over to [the stock page] stock, [stock column] press zero. Save changes. Go back to our home page. You see an "out of stock" message. [7'57"] That "out of stock" message is actually customizable. [08'00"]<br />
store> configuration > store > out of stock notification<br />
...over at out of stock notifier. Or notification. Sorry.<br />
[on to a page of options]<br />
[tickbox: display throbber = moving wheel on the button] And we can display this "throbber". which is a kind of annoyance, so we can take it out.<br />
[tickbox: display customer stock information] We don't have to show customers the stock information, so customers will not see that.<br />
[pre-filled message box reads "out of stock"] What we see here is what customers are going to actually see.<br />
And this is dependent upon our html here. So this is, by default, filtered. So if you saved that, you would see this whole thing. By default we have the red [text]. But you can set that as whatever.<br />
[button: save configuration] go ahead and save the configuration. And there we go. So if we go back to our home page. [8'33"] you will see "out of stock", and that we have removed the actual notification for the throbber and for the actual stock level. But we don't see that because we are out of stock anyway.<br />
<br />
So that was that module. Again, there are positives and negatives to both [ways of displaying out of stock items] . It [the best option] depends on what your preference is.<br />
<br />
<br />
So that was product kits , and that is stock notification.<br />
That's typically it for the Drupal set-up with Ubercart.<br />
<br />
Now, wrapping things up, what we are going to do is walk you through the process of making an order and walking-through the order status, just so you are aware of how that works, and some of the options that you have. That we will be it for the tutorials.<br />
<br />
<hr><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">order process</h3><br />
So lets go ahead and do that, by going back to Products, and I think we have already added that [product] to the cart, but we will go ahead and add to cart. So we are going to add two of these. We are going to have the $5 and the $2. Just as a point of reference, we had the $5 which added another $5 - sorry<br />
we had the colour attribute black which adds a $5 charge to our products so it adds $75 as opposed to $70 (the yellow does not have an increase). So we will go ahead and checkout, and if you remember....<br />
<br />
...we've got some issues here with our out of stock module, so maybe it wasn't as great as I recommended: use at your own risk! I apologise for that.<br />
<br />
But we will go ahead. We will check-out here [10'01] This is all set-up on my sandbox site, so I can checkout with that. Again, I would recommend that you do this in a sandbox site, just to check that your order statuses work and that you can checkout. So: we are reviewing our order. Everything looks good. We are shipping to Hollywood. And now we can go-ahead and submit that order. Again, I have my sandbox customer ID. This was set-up in one of my previous video tutorials so, hopefully, if you followed along the entire series, you know what I am talking about there. Now I can check-out here. [10'34"] I can go to "pay now".<br />
<br />
Just briefly, here, again, you see the individual product items [in a paypal shopping cart and payment screen], rather than having the product kits listed. So if we had changed that and we had just listed product kits, it would not be the individual products [showing] here.<br />
<br />
So we can go ahead and pay now. We have just completed our order so we will go-ahead and return back to the site. [which says "order complete"]. So we can now go to our orders and check them out<br />
store>orders>view orders<br />
and you will see here that the newest one at 1.45 was completed.<br />
The reason why it is completed is that the products that we had were not actual shippable products. We did not set those up to be shipped by UPS or anything, As a result, if we go to our order status here, you will see that we got that payment. We got the payment and boom! the order was completed. There is not much [else] going-on there. We could send, you know [11'30"] an order comment, and then send that (by pressing "update") to the customer himself or herself, and that would be it. Again, if you take a look quickly at the log here, it shows you how this proceeded through our system.<br />
<br />
Now that is all great for the one product that, you know, isn't shippable, and is available online, like your product roles, or your downloadable products. But if you have a shippable product, there is going to be another product that you are going to go through. So let's go ahead and do that. [11'55"]<br />
<br />
content><br />
<br />
I am going to go to my content and [click on] I think "super awsome T shirt" - this is a T shirt with Bailey's photo. It is an actual shippable product. So we will go ahead and add this to the cart. We will check-out. And we will choose "1 Main Street". My billing address is the same as my delivery. We have got our shipping options here - so we will keep it [the option] at $15. We will go to review. We will submit the order. Enter a password. Pay now. And [12'39"]<br />
when we return back to the store, when we go to<br />
store>orders><br />
You will see here [next to the order] that we have "payment recieved"; we are not actually completed. The reason for that is that this is a shippable product, and we actually have to package and then ship. So, the next step here, if you are administering a site like this, is you go to your<br />
|VIEW | EDIT | INVOICE | PAYMENTS | <u>PACKAGES</u> | SHIPMENTS |<br />
"packages", and we will make a package, [12'59"]. This is going to be in packet one. So that is done. Now we go to<br />
|VIEW | EDIT | INVOICE | PAYMENTS | PACKAGES | SHIPMENTS | ...<br />
[dropdown menu: ship manually] We are going to ship it manually, and so in doing that, we have the saved address - the ordering address, the destination - where it is going which is to the customer, the package and we obviously have one,<br />
[box: package type] you can enter a package type if you want to here<br />
[box: declared value] you can enter a declared value, again, if you want to<br />
[box: tracking number] if you have a tracking number - so if you are using UPS - you can manually enter that in.<br />
[boxes: weight, dimensions] Weight in pounds. Again, all of that information which can be included.<br />
[boxes under a "shipment data" heading] Now: shipment data. Because we are doing this manually, we would be entering this data in for whoever our shipping [company] was - you know, perhaps we are using [?] data, and, you know, we don't have that installed in our site, so we go ahead and do that.<br />
[drop-down menu for number of days' delivery] Expected delivery will be - say - the 31st.<br />
[box: shipping cost] Shipping cost is - I don't know - let's say $10.<br />
[button: save shipment] We will save the shipment<br />
<br />
We can also go and them print the packing slip.<br />
And if we checkout the log, we see that nothing - we see that here we don't actually have the completed [order] or anything beyond pending - right? That's right. And "payment recieved".<br />
<br />
So if we now go back [14'21"] what we can do here, is that now we can go to<br />
[box: order status] completed, and we can add an order comment and say "order shipped October 27th" "tracking number is..." and then enter a tracking number<br />
[checkbox: send an e-mail notification on update] make sure we send an email notification to the customer<br />
[button: update] press update.<br />
<br />
And now our order has been updated. We see that here, the order status has been changed to shipped, our customer has been notified, and then when we go and actually check our store orders [it's done]. So the one thing [to remember] here is that we went from the order completed meaning "payment recieved" to mea<br />
<br />
<br />
We might want to indicate that there is a step between them when we are actually shipping. So if we went into confuguration unders<br />
store>orders>workflow<br />
you will see here that we have the order statuses. We can go ahead and add a custom one, and we will say<br />
[box: order status id] shipping<br />
[box:title] Shipping<br />
[drop down: payment recieved] payment received<br />
[button: create] So we will go ahead and we will create this.<br />
And now you see that we have "payment received" here.<br />
So now what we can do, is that we can go back to our orders themselves, look at this [order], and it is not completed; it is actually shipping. So if we update this and we go back to our orders, we now see that this is shipping. Right? Once we have confirmation that it has been delivivered from our courier and we know that we are good, we can come back in here and then enter it as completed. Again, it's a minor thing; it's totally up to you. You could also add another status that says, you know, that is is packaged, so then you know during the day - maybe you have a pickup every other day or something along those lines, maybe you could have something hanging around in your warehouse that is packaged but not actually shipped.<br />
<hr>So that's it for this video tutorial.<br />
<br />
In the last video tutorial what we will do is wrap everything up, to take it to [being] a production site, which is not very complicated. It is pretty much just our UPS [United Parcel Service] and our and our Paypal that we want to change-over. But we also want to walk-through as an anonymous user to make a purchase, and a few other things.<br />
<br />
So, again, if these video tutorials are helpful, leave a comment, let me know. Hopefully we will see you in the next video tutorial. Thanks very much<br />
<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<hr align="left"><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-21266065530732532672013-10-26T17:34:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:24:00.079+01:00Drupal 7 /Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10: Over-riding the Catalog and Creating Product Attributes<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><div class="topbar-wrapper"><div class="container"><div class="clearfix" id="topbar"><div class="clearfix" id="breadcrumb"><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fVDOqI7Gge4" width="560"></iframe><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><br />
Drupal 7 / Ubercart Tutorial 8 of 10: Creating an E-Commerce Site. From a video by <a href="http://torontowebsitedeveloper.com/">Pete Yaworski</a> also linked from <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">Ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x</a><br />
<br />
In the 8th drupal video tutorial of this series, we continue developing our Ubercart site by<b> </b><br />
<b>uninstalling the catalog module</b> and <b> </b><br />
<b>overriding our taxonomy terms with the view provided by the Views module</b>.<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
We then create and add some attributes to our products and finish the video tutorial by creating a new view which actually replaces our previous catalog. In doing so, I show you why this provides you with a little more control.<br />
<br />
<hr align="left" /><br />
[0'00"]<br />
Hullo and welcome to the 8th of this 10-part video tutorial series on using Drupal & Ubercart.<br />
I am Pete Yaworski the <a href="http://www.torontowebsitedeveloper.com/">Toronto web developer specialising in using Drupal</a>, and, like all the video tutorials in this series, this is brought to you by myself as well as by the Ubercart.org team, who thought it would be a good idea to help those who are new users to Drupal and Ubercart, and get this [series of videos] out-there to help everybody out. <br />
<br />
Transcribed to this web site by someone else who only places one small advert on the whole page<br />
<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden;width:468px;height:60px;" src="//bee-ads.com/ad.php?id=17194"></iframe><br />
<br />
<b>last video and introduction</b><br />
<blockquote>So, that said, we are ready to continue-on, right out of [after] <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Video Tutorial Number 7</a><a href="http://www.blogger.com/null">, and if you have not watched that already, I suggest you go and do that.</a><br />
What we did there was we created our taxononomy - or rather our catalogue based on taxonomies. We saw that there was a bit of a hiccup between taxonomy terms for path urls<b>,</b> and taxonmoy terms for the catalogue terms itself. There was a bit of duplication there. So I said that I would show you how to create a customised view, that I like to do, that gives you a little bit more control over creating catalogues. So we are going to dive-right-in to that and get started.</blockquote><hr /><b>The first thing that we are going to do is that we are going to go-over <i></i></b><b>and I am going to [actually]<br />
disable the catalogue module.</b><br />
<br />
<i>> modules</i> <i>></i> <i><u>list</u> | update | uninstall</i> <i>> catalog</i><b><i><br />
</i></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /> <b>catalog</b> [un-ticked to disable, then press Enter or the</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save" /> button at the bottom of the screen]</span><b><br />
</b></form></blockquote><br />
One thing that I want to do - that I just want to flag before I [actually] do this - is - (I'm sorry. You will have to wait for me while I find this). When we do this we are going to remove all the terms from our products, so if you go-ahead, and if you have set-up dozens of products or hundreds of products or what-not... When you remove them all, it will create a little bit of a hiccup for you. It is possible to go-in programatically, and add all-new terms to them, maybe using Drush or something, but that is going to be beyond the scope of this video tutorial. So: if you have already done that, it might be best just to stick with the catalogue module. But, if you are working with this video tutorial series, all-along, it might be better just to get rid of the [default] catalogue module, and we are going to make our own [catalogue] which gives you a little bit more control and is a bit more versatile. [1' 48"]<br />
<br />
(I should mention that this video tutorial might be a little bit longer than the others because: I really don't have a plan on showing this, but as we (kind of) got into the video tutorial series we thought that [this technique] would be a good thing to have. It is something that I usually use, and we thought it would be beneficial to others.) So:<br />
<br />
<br />
I have gone-ahead and (actually) disabled the catalogue module, but when you do that, Drupal keeps all the data for the modules that were installed. (So) Once you change it, you change your database, and that data is not removed. The reason why Drupal does that is so that if you uninstall something and you still need that data, and you want to reinstall the module, you can bring that data back in; you won't have lost any data. [02'27"] [?]<br />
<hr /><b>We actually have to go-in and we have to un-install the catalogue.</b><br />
When we do that, it will remove all the data from the database that is associated with it.<br />
<br />
<i>> modules</i> <i>></i> <i>list | update | <u>uninstall</u></i> <i><u></u>> catalog</i><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /> <b>catalog</b> [ticked and pressed return or the red uninstall button]</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" type="submit" value="uninstall" /></span></form></blockquote><br />
Now that that [module] has gone, if we go to our taxonomy terms<br />
<i><br />
> structure > taxonomy > add vocabulary</i><br />
<br />
you will see that it does not wipe out the catalogue that's there because it was created by the taxonomy module. We will go ahead and we will delete that. Now, when we do that, if we check under products, we don't or we should not have this catalogue field. I think that if we go and look, it will not be there. If you look at all those fields, none of them refers to the actual catalogue. So if we flushed our cache we would not see that there.<br />
<br />
So that is the first step.<br />
<br />
We now want to make sure that the content that we have is .... oh I had better delete that ...<br />
We want to make sure that the content we have that we have previously associated with those taxonomy terms is now no longer there: if we go to "site membership" we should see that there is no actual taxonomy term here. Right. Remember that we had added it for a catalogue. It is now gone. [3'45"]<br />
<hr /><br />
<b>What we want to do then, is we want to create a [taxonomy] vocabulary for ourselves.</b><br />
(By the way, if we go to Taxonomy here we will see that taxonomy is gone, but there are still [taxonomy] terms in the menu. The reason is that the menu is actually cached in Drupal, so if we flushed the cache it would go away; this is a cached version of whatever the menu is.)<br />
<i><br />
> structure > taxonomy ></i><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset><legend>Taxonomy</legend> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Home >Administration >Structure </span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><i><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">? Taxonomy is for categorizing content. Terms are grouped into vocabularies. For example, a vocabulary called "Fruit" would contain the terms "Apple" and "Banana".</span></i></blockquote><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Add vocabulary" /></form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Vocabulary name Operations<br />
<br />
<span style="color: blue;"><u>Tags</u> <u>edit vocabulary </u> <u>list terms</u> <u>add terms</u></span></span></fieldset></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><br />
So if we go to<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Add vocabulary" /><br />
We are going to call this [name] "Product Type", because we are going to sell different product types on our site - we are going to sell T shirts , CDs, whatnot.[4.08"]</form><br />
Now we've done that let's go ahead and add some terms. So. Name: "T shirt". We could add some meta-tags and relations [?} if we want to , but we don't really need to do that [at this stage]. We have added T-shirts. [Name] "CDs". [save]. I guess people don't really want to sell CDs any more but we are going to go historic here. And now, I guess, books. People still sell books. And three should be enough, so that's fine. [4'48"]<br />
<br />
Now we have taxonomy terms but we don't have them associated with our content . So if we went to...<br />
<br />
<i>> structure > content types > Product > Edit | Manage fields | <u>Manage display <span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">tab</span></u> | Comment fields | <span style="font-family: inherit;">Comment Di</span></i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>splay</i></span><br />
<br />
<br />
...you'll see that we don't have any fields, so we will have to add that [association]. We are going to add a new field here.<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u><i></i></u></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u><i></i></u></span><br />
<br />
<i>> structure > content types > Product > Edit | <u>Manage fields tab</u> | Manage display | Comment fields | <span style="font-family: inherit;">Comment Di</span></i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>splay</i></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Add new field</span><br />
<input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Product Type" /><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">label</span></form></blockquote>We are going to call this "Product Type". And [5'11"] you actually can't see what I'm doing here. But I am going to make this a term reference - that should be on your [drop down menu] list.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><select> <option selected="" value="taxonomy_term_reference">taxonomy term reference</option> </select></form></blockquote>And let me make this a select list because I only want to be able to choose one. [5'20"]<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><select> <option selected="" value="select_list">select list</option> </select></form></blockquote>(If you want to make this a free tagging [site], where, you know, you have thousands of different tags; you never know what you are going to have, you can make this<br />
<form><blockquote class="tr_bq"><select> <option selected="" value="select_list">Autocomplete list (tagging)</option> </select> </blockquote>a free tagging field so that you can always type-in a new one, and it will automatically create the new term. I am sure that I am only going to be selling three different product types, so that's all that I want.)</form>So it is actually going to use a product type vocabulary . [scrolling down the page looking at options]<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /> required field</form></blockquote><br />
It's going to be a required field.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-"><legend><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="fieldset-legend">Default value</span></span></legend><br />
<div class="fieldset-wrapper"><div class="fieldset-description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">The default value for this field, used when creating new content.</span></div><div class="field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-name-field-product-type field-widget-options-select form-wrapper" id="edit-field-product-type"><div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-product-type-und"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><label for="edit-field-product-type-und">Product Type </label></span></b></div><div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-product-type-und"><form><select> <option selected="selected">- none -</option> </select></form></div></div></div></fieldset></blockquote>It's not going to have any default [value]. We are only going to allow one value. And it [the value] is going to be out of the product types. So I am going to go ahead and save that. Obviously you could change that if you wanted. And I'll leave that. That's fine. [05'58"]<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-field"><legend><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="fieldset-legend"><i class="placeholder">Product Type</i> field settings</span></span></legend><br />
<div class="fieldset-wrapper"><div class="fieldset-description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">These settings apply to the <i class="placeholder">Product Type</i> field everywhere it is used.</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
</span></div><div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-cardinality"><div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-product-type-und"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Number of Values</b></span></div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><select> <option selected="selected">- none -</option> </select></span><br />
<div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-settings-allowed-values-0-vocabulary"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Maximum number of values</span></div><div class="form-item form-type-select form-item-field-settings-allowed-values-0-vocabulary"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b><label for="edit-field-settings-allowed-values-0-vocabulary">Vocabulary<span class="form-required" title="This field is required.">*</span></label></b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b><br />
</b></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><select> <option selected="selected">- none -</option> </select></span></span><br />
<div class="description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">*The vocabulary which supplies the options for this field.</span></div></div></div></div></fieldset><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save Settings" /></form></blockquote><br />
Now we have our actual contents. [from the admin>content menu]. When we go over to add a product ( we are going to do this afterwoulds, actually, but I just want to show you) .<br />
?missed a bit?<br />
<hr /><br />
<b>Now: if we go over to Views, the Views module comes with a taxonomy over-ride.</b><br />
What this will do is: -<br />
<ul><li>The system actually has urls for taxonomies.<br />
They are always: <b>taxonomy / term / termID </b></li>
<li>So when we create these taxonomy terms using the <a href="https://drupal.org/project/pathauto">url pathauto module</a>...<br />
<hr />If you remember we set-up the data:<br />
we had url aliases and patterns set-up for taxonomy terms.<br />
<i>>configuration > search and metadata > url aliases > patterns</i></li>
</ul><blockquote><fieldset><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<section id="main-content"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Enter the path you wish to create the alias for, followed by the name of the new alias.</span></b><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b><br />
Existing system path</b></span> <form accept-charset="UTF-8" action="/admin/config/search/path/add?render=overlay&render=overlay" class="overlay-processed" id="path-admin-form" method="post" name="path-admin-form"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span> <br />
<div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span> <br />
<div class="form-item form-type-textfield form-item-source"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><label for="edit-source"></label><span class="field-prefix"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">http://uc:8082/</span></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><input class="form-text required" id="edit-source" maxlength="255" name="source" size="45" type="text" value="" /></span><br />
<div class="description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Specify the existing path you wish to alias.<br />
For example: <i>node/28, forum/1, taxonomy/term/1.</i></span></div><div class="description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b><br />
</b></span></div><div class="description"><label for="edit-alias"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Path alias</b></span> <span class="form-required" title="This field is required."><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">*</span></span></label> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><span class="field-prefix"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
http://uc:8082/</span></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><input class="form-text required" id="edit-alias" maxlength="255" name="alias" size="45" type="text" value="" /><br />
<div class="description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Specify an alternative path by which this data can be accessed.<br />
For example, type "about" when writing an about page.<br />
Use a relative path and don't add a trailing slash or the URL alias won't work.</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span></div></div></div></div></form></section> </fieldset></blockquote><br />
So it will be the taxonomy vocabulary plus the term [that is] what we will see [in the url]. [6'40"]<br />
<hr /><br />
What will happen here<br />
<i>>structure>views>taxonomy term>path</i> ...is<br />
<br />
Views [module] will over-ride [urls set-up as above] using <i>.../taxonomy term /..</i>..<br />
and then it will take an argument [technical term from maths?], and that will be based on the default menu , so we can over-ride what our actual View will be or what our page will look like for the specific taxonomy term .<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #999999;">(I know that this is probably going over way your head [and I have just enabled the redirect module? Yes? No?] I know that his is probably going way over your head and it is way beyond what this module originally envisaged, but I just want to do this because it is a great way to customize what you are doing, so: just trust me and bear with me!)</span><br />
<br />
So now we have a taxonomy term over-ride. [7'16"] Let's go ahead and we will edit this.<br />
<br />
<i>>structure>views>view>taxonomy term>edit [on a drop-down menu at the end of a line]</i><br />
<br />
We are going to take a quick look into Views.<br />
<span style="color: #999999;">What Views actually is, as I think I mentioned before in another video tutorial; Views is a graphic interface for creating database queries. Rather than write your constant query - like "select from where", you can do it all through Views [module] and it will actually develop a query for you, run it, and you can create pagers [third line from the bottom] out of that.</span><span style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
</span></span></span><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span class="crumb-sepreator"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><i>#overlay=admin/structure/views/view/taxonomy_term/edit</i></span></span><br />
<fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-"><div style="text-align: left;"><div id="overlay-title"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Taxonomy term (Content)</span></span></b></div><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Modify the display(s) of your view below or add new displays.</span></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Displays </span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u>Page</u> Feed Add</span></span></b></div><div class="views-displays"><div class="views-display-settings box-margin ctools-collapsible-container form-wrapper ctools-collapsible-processed" id="edit-display-settings"><br />
<div class="ctools-collapsible-content form-wrapper" id="edit-display-settings-content" style="display: block;"><div class="views-display-tab form-wrapper" id="views-tab-page"><div class="form-wrapper" id="edit-display-settings-details"><div class="views-ui-display-tab-actions views-ui-display-tab-bucket clearfix form-wrapper" id="edit-display-settings-top"><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting odd clearfix"></div><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting odd clearfix"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Display name:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/display_title" id="views-page-display-title" title="Page">Page</a></span></span></b></div></div><div class="clearfix views-display-columns form-wrapper" id="edit-display-settings-main"><div class="views-display-column first form-wrapper" id="edit-displays-settings-settings-content-tab-content-details-columns-first"><div class="views-ui-display-tab-bucket title"><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting defaulted even clearfix"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Title:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/title" id="views-page-title" title="Change the title that this display will use.">None</a></span></span></b></div></div><div class="views-ui-display-tab-bucket format"><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting defaulted odd clearfix"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Format:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_plugin" id="views-page-style-plugin" title="Change the way content is formatted.">Unformatted list</a><span class="label"> | </span><a class="views-ajax-link views-button-configure views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_options" id="views-page-style-options" title="Change settings for this format">Settings</a></span></span></b></div><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting defaulted even clearfix"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Show: </span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_plugin" id="views-page-row-plugin" title="Change the way each row in the view is styled.">Content</a><span class="label"> | </span><a class="views-ajax-link views-button-configure views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_options" id="views-page-row-options" title="Change settings for this style">Teaser</a></span></span></b></div></div><div class="views-ui-display-tab-bucket fields"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Fields: The selected style or row format does not utilize fields.</span></span></b></div><div class="ctools-dropbutton ctools-button views-ui-settings-bucket-operations ctools-button-processed ctools-dropbutton-processed RemoveIconClass-processed" id="ctools-button-2"><h3><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Filter criteria<br />
<a class="compact add views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/add-item/taxonomy_term/page/sort" id="views-add-sort" title="Add">Add</a></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Sort criteria</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/config-item/taxonomy_term/page/sort/sticky"><br />
Content: Sticky (desc)</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/config-item/taxonomy_term/page/sort/created"><br />
Content: Post date (desc)</a></span></span></h3></div></div><div class="views-display-column second form-wrapper" id="edit-displays-settings-settings-content-tab-content-details-columns-second"><div class="views-ui-display-tab-bucket page-settings"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span></span></b><br />
<h3><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Page settings</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label"><br />
Path:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/path" id="views-page-path" title="/taxonomy/term/%">/taxonomy/term/%</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label"><br />
Menu:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/menu" id="views-page-menu" title="No menu">No menu</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label"><br />
Access:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/access" id="views-page-access" title="Specify access control type for this display.">None</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Header <a class="compact add views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/add-item/taxonomy_term/page/header" id="views-add-header" title="Add">Add</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Footer <a class="compact add views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/add-item/taxonomy_term/page/footer" id="views-add-footer" title="Add">Add</a></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
Pager</span></span> <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label"> Use pager:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/pager" id="views-page-pager" title="Change this display's pager setting.">Full</a><span class="label"> | </span><a class="views-ajax-link views-button-configure views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/pager_options" id="views-page-pager-options" title="Change settings for this pager type.">Paged, 10 items</a></span></span></h3></div><div class="views-ui-display-tab-bucket pager"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">More link: </span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/use_more" id="views-page-use-more" title="Specify whether this display will provide a "more" link.">No</a></span></span></b></div></div><div class="views-display-column third ctools-collapsible-container ctools-collapsible-remember ctools-collapsed form-wrapper ctools-collapsible-processed" id="views-ui-advanced-column-taxonomy_term"><h3 class="ctools-collapsible-handle"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/view/taxonomy_term/edit?render=overlay">Advanced</a></span></span></h3></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></fieldset><br />
</blockquote><br />
The default taxonomy over-ride, when you launch [a site] is an unformatted list of teasers. [short first parts of paragraphs encouraging a click to further reading of blog posts]. [7'42"]<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting defaulted odd clearfix"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Format:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_plugin" id="views-page-style-plugin" title="Change the way content is formatted.">Unformatted list</a><span class="label"> | </span><a class="views-ajax-link views-button-configure views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_options" id="views-page-style-options" title="Change settings for this format">Settings</a></span></div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><br />
<div class="views-display-setting views-ui-display-tab-setting defaulted even clearfix"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="label">Show:</span> <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_plugin" id="views-page-row-plugin" title="Change the way each row in the view is styled.">Content</a><span class="label"> | </span><a class="views-ajax-link views-button-configure views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_options" id="views-page-row-options" title="Change settings for this style">Teaser</a></span></div><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Fields: The selected style or row format does not utilize fields.</span></span></blockquote>I don't want to do that; I am going to change that. So the taxonomy over-ride will use...<br />
[clicks on <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Show: <u><span style="color: blue;">Content</span></u></span> to get some options on a pop-up menu<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">][7'46"]</span></span>I want fields.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-"><h2 id="views-ajax-title"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;">Page: How should each row in this view be styled</span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;"><label for="edit-override-dropdown"><br />
For</label></span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;">: <u><span style="color: blue;">All displays (except overridden)</span></u><br />
<strike><input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-row-plugin-node" name="row_plugin" type="radio" value="node" /></strike> <strike><label class="option" for="edit-row-plugin-node">Content</label></strike></span></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;"><strike>[no longer selected]</strike><br />
<input checked="checked" class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-row-plugin-fields" name="row_plugin" type="radio" value="fields" /> <label class="option" for="edit-row-plugin-fields">Fields</label></span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;"><br />
<input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-row-plugin-entity" name="row_plugin" type="radio" value="entity" /> <label class="option" for="edit-row-plugin-entity">Rendered entity</label></span></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span style="font-size: small;"><br />
You may also adjust the <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_options" id="views-page-row-options" title="settings">settings</a> for the currently selected row style.</span></span></h2><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply to all displays" /><input name="name" type="submit" value="Cancel" /></form></fieldset></blockquote><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply to all displays" /> I am going to apply to all displays for this taxonomy term. [pop-up closes]</form>And now I am using Fields [there is an <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><u><span style="color: blue;">Add</span></u></span> link next to <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Fields:</span> , which leads to a pop-up menu of about 20 names of fields next to <strike>tick boxes =</strike> check boxes]<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Format: <a href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_plugin">Unformatted list</a> | <a href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_options">Settings</a><br />
Show: <u><span style="color: blue;">Fields</span></u> | <a href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/row_options">Teaser</a><br />
<b>Fields: <span style="color: blue;"><u>Add</u></span></b></span> <strike><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">The selected style or row format does not utilize fields</span></span></b></strike></blockquote></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">So I am going to go ahead and I am going to add two fields. [a drop-down <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Filter</span> finds them on a long list]<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-" style="text-align: left;"><div id="views-ajax-title"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Add fields</span></b></div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">[search box ]<br />
[drop-down menu to filter results eg content or product]</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Content: Title - the content title</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product: List Price - the manufacturer's suggested price</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product: SKU - the part number or bar code</span><br />
<form><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></form><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply and continue" /></form></fieldset></blockquote></div>This is just quickly [choosing options out of about 20] - obviously you can change it a little bit yourself.<br />
First I want my<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Content: Title - the content title</span><br />
Then I want my<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product: List Price</span><br />
And the<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product: SKU</span>- so I lied: I am going to add three fields.[8'19"]<br />
<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply and continue" /></form><span style="font-family: inherit;">[another menu pops-up automatically labelled <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Configure field: Content: Title]</span><br />
Right: So we will keep the title..</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">And I am actually going to make this a table, so we will keep all these labels that we have. [on a follow-up screen] So that actually makes sense for someone who is going to read the page.</span> Instead of making this an unordered list we are going to make it a table.<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">[clicks on <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Format: <a href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_plugin">Unformatted list</a> |.</span> A menu pops-up]</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="hullo there"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Page: How should this view be styled</b><br />
For [dropdown menu: <u>all pag</u></span><u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">es</span></u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">]</span><br />
<div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-style-plugin-grid" name="style_plugin" type="radio" value="grid" /> <label class="option" for="edit-style-plugin-grid">Grid</label></span></div><div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-style-plugin-list" name="style_plugin" type="radio" value="list" /> <label class="option" for="edit-style-plugin-list">HTML list</label></span></div><div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-style-plugin-jump-menu" name="style_plugin" type="radio" value="jump_menu" /> <label class="option" for="edit-style-plugin-jump-menu">Jump menu</label></span></div><div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"></div><div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="checked" class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-style-plugin-default" name="style_plugin" type="radio" value="default" /> <label class="option" for="edit-style-plugin-default">Table</label></span><br />
<div class="description"><div class="form-item form-type-radio form-item-style-plugin"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input class="form-radio viewsImplicitFormSubmission-processed" id="edit-style-plugin-table" name="style_plugin" type="radio" value="table" /> <strike>Unformatted list [no longer selected]</strike></span></div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">If the style you choose has settings, be sure to click the settings button that will appear next to it in the View summary.</span></div></div><div class="form-item description"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">You may also adjust the <a class="views-ajax-link views-ajax-processed-processed" href="http://uc:8082/admin/structure/views/nojs/display/taxonomy_term/page/style_options" id="views-page-style-options" title="settings">settings</a> for the currently selected style</span></div></fieldset></blockquote>You have some other options here [on the "Page: how should this view be styled" pop-up box] if you want to chase those up [experiment]. So that is my View.<br />
<br />
One thing I am going to do is that I am going to make sure that it's only products that are going to be shown on this. This is a bit of a caveat. Bear with me for one second here, and I am going to explain this to you.<br />
<br />
<i>>structure >views >view >filter criteria >add [on a drop-down menu at the end of a line]</i><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset class="form-wrapper" id="edit-" style="text-align: left;"><div id="views-ajax-title"><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Add filter criterea</span></b></div><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">[search box ]<br />
[drop-down menu to filter results eg content or product]</span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Content: Type - the content type</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">(for example a "blog entry", "forum post", story", etc)</span><br />
<form><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></form><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply (all displays)" /></form></fieldset></blockquote><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" /></span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Content: Type - the content type (for example a "blog entry", "forum post", "story", etc)</span><br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply (all displays)" /></form>[after pressing the "apply" button, a second menu pops- up]<span style="font-family: inherit;">[8'58"]</span><br />
<blockquote><fieldset><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Configure filter critereon: Content: Type</b><br />
For [dropdown: all displays]<br />
<br />
<b>Operator</b></span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Is one of</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Is not one of<br />
<br />
<b>Content types</b><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Select All</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Article</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Basic Page</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Product</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Product Kit<br />
<br />
<u>More</u></span></form><form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply" /></form></fieldset></blockquote><br />
I am going to add content type.<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Operator</b></span><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Is one of</span><br />
I am going to make sure that this is an acutal product.<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Content types</b><br />
<input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Select All</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Article</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Basic Page</span> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input checked="1" name="checkbox" type="checkbox" value="checkbox" />Product</span><br />
I go-ahead and hit "display".<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Apply" /><br />
High Five!<br />
We are not actually going to see a preview because we are going to need to generate some arguments . [9'18]</form><br />
If you are only using one taxonomy on your site, so you are only using products and you are only using taxonomy terms related to those products, this solution is fine. [9'39"]<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="color: #666666;"><a href="http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm"><b><span style="color: black;">If</span></b></a></span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="color: #666666;">you are using blog posts, and<br />
you are <b><span style="color: black;">using taxonomy terms to categorise the blog posts</span></b>, and</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #666666;">you are using articles and<br />
you are <b><span style="color: black;">using taxonomy terms to categorise your articles</span></b>,</span></li>
</ul><span style="color: #666666;"><b><span style="color: black;">you are going to run into a problem</span></b> here. Because<b><span style="color: black;"></span></b></span> <span style="color: #666666;"><b><span style="color: black;"><br />
this overrides all taxonomy term views</span></b>, and so all the different vocabularies and terms;</span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="color: #666666;"><b><span style="color: black;">your other content is not necessarilly going to have these prices and SKUs</span></b>, and</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #666666;"><b><span style="color: black;">you might want to have a teaser for that specific article or blog post</span></b>.</span></li>
</ul><span style="color: #666666;"><span style="color: #444444;">If th</span>at is the case, then you are going to have to look-into another module called the <span style="color: black;"><b><br />
<span style="color: black;"><a href="https://drupal.org/project/viewfield">View Field Module</a></span></b></span>. What that will actually allow you to do is create<b><span style="color: black;"><br />
different taxonomy overrides for different vocabularies</span></b>. I actually haven't used it, so I am sorry: I cannot go into the details about it. But there is a great post here ... that details what you have to do in order to override this [thing]</span> <span style="color: #666666;">https://drupal.org/node/424168#comment-5082962 [...]This will tell you how to go ahead and do that [other thing] . The project itself is available at <a href="https://drupal.org/project/viewfield"><span style="color: #666666;"></span>https://drupal.org/project/viewfield</a></span></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="color: #666666;">So this is the module. I'd advise you to go ahead and get the Drupal 7 version, so you can test that out. So that is a brief side-note. For the sake of this video tutorial that [problem and solution] is not going to be an issue because we are only going creating products on our site.[10'47"], so we can override all taxonomy term fields.</span></blockquote><br />
That's why we had a content type filter there.<br />
<br />
Let me go-ahead and I am going to save this [screen of settings using a <i>save</i> button top right]. [10.58"]<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save" /> Now we have our over-rides set-up. So that's great.</form><hr /><br />
<b>Attributes</b> <i><br />
>store >product >attributes</i> [11'10"]<br />
<br />
Before we actually go ahead and create some products with tags, to look at this different view, I am going to go-on to the next part of this video tutorial and we are going to go about configuring attributes.<br />
<br />
So to do that we are going to go to<br />
<i>>store >product >attributes</i><br />
<blockquote><fieldset><legend><b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Attributes</span></b></legend><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">home>administration>store>products</span><br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="+ Add an attribute" /></form><table class="sticky-header" style="left: 89.1167px; position: fixed; top: 0px; visibility: hidden;"><thead style="display: block;">
<tr> <th class="active"><a class="active" href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes?sort=desc&order=Name" title="sort by Name"><img alt="sort descending" class="image-style-none" src="http://uc:8082/misc/arrow-desc.png" height="13" title="sort descending" width="13" /></a></th> <th><br />
</th> <th><br />
</th> <th><br />
</th> <th><br />
</th> <th><br />
</th> <th colspan="3"><br />
</th> </tr>
</thead> </table><table class="sticky-enabled tableheader-processed sticky-table"><thead>
<tr> <th class="active"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a class="active" href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes?sort=desc&order=Name" title="sort by Name">Name</a></span></th> <th><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a class="active" href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes?sort=asc&order=Label" title="sort by Label">Label</a></span></th> <th><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Required</span></th> <th><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a class="active" href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes?sort=asc&order=List%20position" title="sort by List position">List position</a></span></th> <th><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Number of options</span></th> <th><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Display type</span></th> <th colspan="3"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Operations</span></th> </tr>
</thead> <tbody>
<tr class="odd"> <td class="active"></td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> <td><br />
</td> </tr>
<tr class="even"> <td class="active"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">color</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">color</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Yes</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Select box</span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes/4/edit">edit</a></span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes/4/options">options</a></span></td> <td><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><a href="http://uc:8082/admin/store/products/attributes/4/delete">delete</a></span></td> </tr>
</tbody> </table></fieldset></blockquote><div class="add-or-remove-shortcuts add-shortcut"><a href="http://uc:8082/admin/config/user-interface/shortcut/shortcut-set-1/add-link-inline?link=admin/store/products/attributes&name=Attributes&destination=admin/store/products/attributes&token=_ulKtb6xC5JhttwyvxAur5tF8dHw8sf2elPBPmbrTNg"><span class="icon"></span></a></div><i></i>In the previous video tutorials in this series, we went-ahead and we created [the attribute] <b><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">color</span></b>. You will see that we have got grey, black, and red. And so, for the sake of users who, maybe, missed that video tutorial, I am going to create a new one. I am going to call this a "yellow" colour here. And you will see here that the default list position. This will come-up when we add our products. Don't worry about that. You can change it if you want to. [11.46"]<br />
<br />
<b>Default Adjustments: </b><br />
<br />
<blockquote><fieldset><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Default Adjustments</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Enter a postitive or negative value for each adjustment applied for each product selected.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Any of these may be overriden at the next product level</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Cost</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" /></span></form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Price</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" /></span></form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Weight</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" /></span></form></fieldset></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq">This is an interesting and helpful field. What it allows us to do is: you'll see that if you do sizing, you may want to have a </blockquote><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>default cost, and you sell an XXL, there is more material so it can then charge an extra $2 for a XXL shirt. So it will add $2 to this; every time you have a product that has an attribute of XXL, it will add $2 automatically on to that cost. And you can associate the same thing with the </li>
<li>sale price, so that it adds $2 on. Alternatively, if you are doing something associated with a specific</li>
<li>weight: if there is a specific weight for this attribute, you can go ahead and add that in here. These are all defaults.You can also do this [adjustment] individually on</li>
<li>specific product; you can do that as well. So that is a great thing about attributes here.</li>
</ul><br />
So we will go ahead an we will submit this. That makes four attributes for our products.<br />
<hr /><br />
<b>Now let's go ahead and add some new content.</b>[12'31"]<br />
<i>>content >add content >product</i><br />
<br />
Just as a reminder: if you already have content then you will now be going back to it, as new taxonomy terms that we create for our product [??].<br />
<br />
<i>>content >add content >product</i> So: creating a new product. Back here. So we are going to call this - <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"></span>I dunn<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">o</span><br />
<br />
<blockquote><fieldset><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product Name<span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Peter's Amazing Sounds" /></span></form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Summery</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" /></span></form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Description (edit summery)</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="super awesome CD by Pete" /></span></form></fieldset></blockquote><br />
[13'00"]<br />
It's something on a CD, Right?<br />
So now what are we going to do now? I guess we are not going to need an image, but we will add an image anyway. We don't have an image, so as always in this video tutorial I am going to upload one of our dog Baily.<br />
<br />
<blockquote><fieldset><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b>Image:<br />
Add a new file</b></span><br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="choose file" /> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Baily-the-dog.jpg" /></span> <input name="name" type="submit" value="upload" /></form></fieldset></blockquote><br />
Now, I am going to say [in the Product Type box with drop-down options: select option, books, CDs or T shirts] this is a CD.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Product Type<span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
<select> <option>select an option</option> <option>books</option> <option selected="">CDs</option> <option>T shirts</option> </select></form></blockquote>So the SKU [in the SKU box] is going to be "pete's CD", right?<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">SKU*</span><br />
<form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><input name="name" size="25" type="text" value="Pete's CD" /><br />
product SKU / model</span></form></blockquote><br />
The sell price is a whapping<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">...</span><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><form><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">List Price $<input name="name" size="5" type="text" /> Cost Price $<input name="name" size="5" type="text" /> Sell Price<span style="color: red;">*</span>$<input name="name" size="5" type="text" value="89.99" /></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">the listed MSRP Your store's cost Customer purchase price</span></form></blockquote><br />
...because everyone wants to hear me sing. And the maximum package quantity<br />
<form><blockquote><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Maximum Package Quantitiy<span style="color: red;">*</span></span><input name="name" size="5" type="text" value="1" /></blockquote></form>Default setting. So we are going to leave everything as default , because we are just doing this to take a look at Views[module]. We are just waiting to for the image to upload: it's almost done.<br />
There. Now, with the magic of editing, that took no time, so we are just going to [press] save and Continue.<br />
[13'43"]<br />
<br />
Where do we go? [to the shippable box] This is a shippable product. [clicks] It is not shippable product any more [lie], so we press save and continue.<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="save and continue" /></form><hr /><b>adding an existing attribute to an existing product</b><br />
<i>>content >add content >product</i> (using attributes configured on <i>>store >product >attributes)</i><br />
<br />
Now: the reason why we went-ahead and pressed save and continue is because I want to remain on the products page so we can go to our attributes. So: we have to add an attribute to this product. We are going to add our colour attribute. Now, once we do that...<br />
We can go to our options, and you will see here that we can choose the options which are associated with this particular product. So every colour is going to be available for the cover of my CD, except for red. Now...<br />
We are going to go ahead and save that.<br />
<br />
If I wanted to adjust my cost for my price and my weight, for this specific product, rather than using a default, [in the cost boxes next to each option] I can go-ahead and do that. The default [radio button] will select which option will be selected by default when a user selects this [CD] item. It will be defaulted to black. So I will go-ahead and I will submit that. And I will save that.<br />
<br />
If we go and look at [the] adjustments [page], we can see here that we can use alternateive SKUs. [by filling-in the boxes]: Pete's CD black; Pete's CD grey, and Pete's CD yellow. Again we are going to go-ahead and submit. [15'07"]. And then if we go back to the product [page], we are still good: we have our product CD, we have our regular default SKU, we have our sale price. So we will go-ahead and we will save that.[15'17"]<br />
<br />
Right. There's our list of products. So if we click on "CDs", here, it is going to show us all our product types... here is our actual View. We see title, we see list price, we see SKU. So that is defaulted, rather than the catalogue [default setting] that we had before. You will see that we have a product type of CDs.<br />
<br />
If we go to<br />
<i>>configuration >search and metadata>url aliases></i><br />
you will see that we have one [url alias] for each. Taxonomy terms 7, 6, and 5: these are the taxonomy terms that we created. Bulk CDs and T shirts. And we are good to go. [15'55"]<br />
<br />
Screen revolves.[16'02"]<br />
<hr /><b>replacing the catalog</b><br />
<br />
OK. So now we are actually set-up I am going to go ahead and show you how to replace the catalogue.<br />
<br />
You will notice that we are on a different screen, because I actually screwed-up the video tutorial, so I paused it, and I am going to show you what I am doing. I have erased that part of the video tutorial, so we are starting here.<br />
<br />
Right now what we have done is that we have over-ridden the taxonomy term pages so that we have a specific look for our product types and a we have gone and done that with attributes. What we don't have is a list of all the different product types , that we can go into, kind-of like a kind of product catalogue , and then go-down by specific fields. And so we are going to do that. [16'31"]<br />
<br />
Let's go-ahead. We'll go to [admin>structure.] Views. And we have to add a new View. [View Name box] "ubercart product". It's going to be actual Content [in the show box]; it is going to be of type product [in the type box], [in the sorted by box] newest first. In the Page title box: catalogue. This is going to be at [in the path box] "product type".<br />
<br />
Let's just confirm this. [on admin>configuration>search and metadata>search settings>] because what we want this to be is the beginning of our actual [alias: product-type:books].... yup!<br />
<br />
So what we actually did was [to make sure that] if we went to [path] product types, it would work as a url, and if we went to [path] /books, it would also work as a url. That's just good development practice.<br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>We are going to create this as a table. With fields [these are the default settings] times-ed by ten. We are going to use a pager. [there is a ticked box called "use a pager" - maybe for page breaks?] And we are going to go ahead and edit it. So, now, what we want this to do is kind of create all of our products on the page, and allow users to filter them. [17'41]</li>
</ul><br />
So, what we are going to do is to create a similar View to what we did on the other View.<br />
Then when we go-over to get that View you will notice that I have changed a few things, but nothing overly crazy. [using an Add fields pop-up, working down the options]<br />
<br />
We are going to add the add to cart form - so I can show you what that looks like.<br />
<br />
We are going to add the display price.<br />
<br />
We are going to add the image [ticking a box marked Content image (uc_product_image: delta) Delta: appears in - node product, node product_kit ]<br />
<br />
I think that's it. Obviously you would want your two Views to match-up, so it look consistent between the two. It's not a huge concern, but it's just a good way of doing this.<br />
<br />
[create a label box is ticked, followed by a "label" box]<br />
We are going to call this [label] "image" [filling-in the box][18'32]<br />
Ah. The Delta. We are not going to use this.<br />
So we will use the add to cart. Wait for that to display.<br />
Price: we will go-ahead and edit that.<br />
Then we'll go back to add that image. Hold that window. [18'52"] [ticks a box]<br />
We want this image. Not the Delta one. We chose the Delta before. We want the Content Image.<br />
So it is image, then we are going to select thumbnail; link this image to content [from a dropdown box labelled "link this image to" with content as an option]<br />
We'll add to display [clicks an accept button at the bottom of the page]<br />
<br />
Now the cool thing about this; the thing that gives it a twist, is that, right now, this will show all of our products. So if we went-over to this, let's save it [presses a save button] and go and take a look at it. [The screen reverts to a browser default page until the path the the site is re-typed] [19'26"]<br />
Right: here are all of our products; we can add all of them to the cart.<br />
<br />
<hr /><br />
But if you have, let's say, a thousand different products displayed in a haphazard way. So, what we can actually do, is a pretty cool thing with Views, is to <b>add an exposed filter for users to specifically choose: if they only want to see your T shirts, only show them your T shirts.</b> [19'53"]<br />
<br />
We are going to go-ahead and go-into content, [on the "add filter criteria" pop-up menu] and we are going to choose taxonomy terms. We are going to apply that. And now: it is going to be[from vocabulary options of "product type" or "tags"] a product type, and it is going to be a [selection type either dropdown or autocomplete] dropdown. So [press button] apply and continue. [20'04"]<br />
<br />
[next screen is called "configure filter criterion. Content: has taxonomy term]<br />
You are going to expose this to the users. So now they have control of this.[20'07"]<br />
[in the "label" box types] "only show the following products" [20'13"]<br />
[looking at an "operator" selection - "is one of", "is all of", "is none of".... ] "is one of" [20'16"]<br />
[looking at a "select terms from the vocabulary Product Type" form including "allow multiple selections"] We are going to allow multiple. [20'16"]<br />
["remember last selection" is a tick box] You can remember the last selection, so you show them T shirts if they have always had T shirts before. It is entirely up to you.<br />
[presses "apply" button] press apply and it is all displayed.[20'26"]<br />
[presses "save" button top right] Now we are going to go ahead and save this. [20'31]<br />
[presses F5 in windows] We are going to go-ahead and re-load this page. [20'33"]<br />
Now they can go ahead and say "I only want to see CDs"<br />
[selects "CDs" from the new drop-down menu and presses an "apply" button.] And there you go. We only have one CD. [20'39"]<br />
And go-in to this, [shows picture of dog Bailey],<br />
And they want to see the other CDs.[shows summery of CD as for a list]<br />
And you will see now [in the path] that we have "product/CDs"[20'46"]<br />
So this is our other View that we created. And from this they can use the add to cart form, right-away, and if they decided that they wanted to see all your product types, if they removed "CDs", and then they are back to all of your products. This is why I like using Views and doing it [the catalogue] myself: just because you have complete control over this. [21'02"]<br />
<br />
One thing I should mention again, is that if you are using multiple taxonomy terms for products , you are going to have two different exposed filters here, and you want to create another View for, you know, product types, or lets say just the licences. So: just the licences. And then you would want to remove your and you kind of get into trying a template for that in PHP. That is a little bit beyond the scope of this video, but you can actually choose which exposed filter is shown. You know, if you are interested in that, I'm happy to do a tutorial on it, supplimentary to this video tutorial series: I just need to know that you are interested in it.[21'32"]<br />
<br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
<br />
That's pretty-much it! [21'33"]<br />
<hr />Just to re-cap on what we did in this video tutorial, we just went-ahead and<br />
<b>-unistalled the catalogue module.</b> When we did that we<br />
<b>-removed the taxonomy terms for those associated products</b><br />
so if you had gone ahead and created a bunch of different products and taxonomy terms associated with the catalogue, you would have run into an issue, but, that said, we unsinstalled the module , removed all the data, went ahead and<br />
<b>-created a new taxonomy</b>.<br />
Specifically: we created the product type vocabulary.<br />
We added some new terms to that.<br />
<b>-Then we created the taxonomy over-ride view</b>.<br />
So what this did is that it gave is something like "CDs" - right? Where we actually had control over how it was shown to users. We then<br />
<b>-added some attributes to different products</b>, in a sidebar to the actual views, which enabled us to select grey, black, or yellow. You will see how these appear here when you are listing them. Then what we did was [that] we over-rode we created a new view to replace our old catalogue, which showed all of our product types, and we<br />
<b>-added an exposed filter</b> so that users have complete control over that [view]. They see what they want. If they want to see books, they can see books; if they want to see T shirts, they can see T shirts.<br />
<br />
That's the end of this video tutorial. I hope it helped-out. We are nearing the end [of the series]. I think that in Video Tutorial 9, what we are going to cover is <b>product kits</b> and <b>stock</b>, and then I think we are pretty-much good to go. The last video [number 10] will just be about testing: making sure that your site works properly. What you need to check; what you need to know. And then your site is ready to launch. So we are all but there. If you don't want to know about stock or product kits, you can go ahead and launch your site now, and you have pretty much got all out of this video tutorial series that you need to know.<br />
<br />
I hope this has helped you. I am getting some great comments. I apologize that the video tutorials in this series aren't coming faster, but it's time-consuming. So, leave a message [on you-tube]; let me know if this has helped-out.<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<hr /><span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Transcriber's note:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Does anyone know any other transcriptions of this series? If you have any links to other Drupal Ubercart or Drupal Commerce videos for shopkeepers I'd like to have a look, but I won't be offended</span></span><span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"> </span></span><span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"> if anyone else does the same work better and helps me write my shopping cart and sell <a href="http://veganline.com/">shoes</a>. I might make more than one cent a day by selling another pair of shoes each year. In fact I hope someone copies this whole bit of text, puts it on <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x#S1E8">Ubercart.org</a>, fills in the gaps, links each tutorial to a forum, adds screenshots or reconstructions as I've done - that kind of thing. I'm only doing this because the slowest kid has to write the neatest notes, and I'm only doing it on my own blog because paper notes are harder to keep and online forums tend to get moderated by party loyalists.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">If you come to Ubercart from a shopkeeping angle, rather than an IT developer angle, it's less intuitive and needs a transcript of text to make more sense. If anybody has done a plain text transcript, more connection between screen shots and text or reconstructions and text as I have done here are better still; just a plain text transcipt is really good to know about and helps people around the world who are using using machine translation as well.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br />
</span></span> <span style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">I'm slow setting-up my next <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan shoes uk supplier sends worldwide">shoe shop</a> software and any help is welcome.</span></span><br />
<hr align="left" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-63754648780015426572013-08-12T15:17:00.006+01:002018-10-21T10:24:01.511+01:00 Home > Administration > Site settings Advanced settings > Structure > Menus Main menu<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br />
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix">
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/ck/" target="_blank">Commerce Kickstart 2</a> comes with a main menu of "collections" to alter. How?<br />
<br />
<b>To Carry | To drink with | To geek out | To wear</b> | All products | | Blog | Contact | About<br />
<a name='more'></a></div>
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix">
</div>
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix">
</div>
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix">
</div>
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix">
If you try to change a "collection", the main menu still shows the old title, although new collections have new titles.<br />
After a day or two's experiment, I have finally find out how to change the main menu. <br />
It isn't the last place you'd look: that's too easy to remember. It is about half way down the last column of places. <br />
It is <b>the last admin menu before help</b>, which is called <b>Site Settings</b>, column two for "<b>menus</b>". "<b>Main menu</b>" is second on the list after "Footer navigation". <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjqbaeoKFU3KbS17AhuO4Xiv7fLlI4JRs7ZQ3Vbapr5czomLZgJQfS4yDEfQYVMBemlQPBCahRFkve9hlS6kIw9gDcbIQP0csxPkKBQudL08U-3hOwor3E5-GjWUjndKE_d0GQLOECTMpFx/s1600/menus.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="440" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjqbaeoKFU3KbS17AhuO4Xiv7fLlI4JRs7ZQ3Vbapr5czomLZgJQfS4yDEfQYVMBemlQPBCahRFkve9hlS6kIw9gDcbIQP0csxPkKBQudL08U-3hOwor3E5-GjWUjndKE_d0GQLOECTMpFx/s640/menus.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
<br />
<br />
Home > Administration > Site settings Advanced settings > Structure > Menus > Main menu ...<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-35916227321834130242013-06-11T20:21:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:24:03.067+01:00Using Calculation Rules to Add Per-Item Shipping in Commerce Shipping<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] These videos are not related to the transcription below but may help anyone trying to get a Drupal ecommerce site running as quickly as possible.<br />
<hr><br />
Text introduction:<br />
In this screencast I demonstrate how to do shipping charges per item in the cart. It shows using a loop in Rules and how to do something new and different with shipping.<br />
<br />
We want to add $5.00 to the shipping charge for every item they have. So if the quantity is 5 for some line item, we'll add $25 to the shipping charge.<br />
<br />
The technique is this:<br />
<br />
Add a shipping service. We're using a flat rate service with a $10 base rate.<br />
Add a new "Calculation rule" for that service.<br />
Add an action loop that loops through the line items in the order.<br />
Add an action "Calculate a value" & multiply the quantity times 500 ($5.00) & put the result in a named variable.<br />
Add an action "Add an amount to the unit price" that adds the named variable to the unit price of the shipping line item.<br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="375" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/32813567" width="500"></iframe><br />
<a href="https://vimeo.com/32813567">Using Calculation Rules to Add Per-Item Shipping in Commerce Shipping</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user5912539">Randy Fay</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.<br />
Hullo! My name is Randy Fay. I'm [email]on Drupal.org, and I work with Commerce Guys on their Drupal Commerce Project, and I've been doing a series of screencasts showing how to configure shipping - Commerce_Shipping 2.0 - and I've demonstrated the new Commerce Flat Rate module, and also how to use Commerce UPS.<br />
<br />
I want to show some more advanced rules techniques now.<br />
<br />
I hope that if you aren't familiar with Shipping that you watch some of the other videos first because we are going to pretty deep into Rules this time. But lets just take a look at what we have for configuration, first of all. If we go under <b>Store>Configuration>Shipping</b> , we have basically three things that we can configure, and we've looked at these in previous videos. [shows as three tabs on the screen]<br />
<br />
|<u>SHIPPING METHODS</u> | SHIPPING SERVICES| CALCULATION RULES |<br />
<br />
Under SHIPPING METHODS [tab] we have the provider, essentially. It could be flat rate, it could be UPS, it could be something else. And then each one of those can create SHIPPING SERVICES so we can create flat rate services for example, and I actually have a plain vanilla flat-rate service set-up here. But the tab that we haven't looked at yet is called CALCULATION RULES. That's what we're going to do this time: we are going to demonstrate how CALCULATION RULES work.<br />
<br />
Let's just take a look at what we have in the flat rate SHIPPING SERVICES right now: we don't have anything. It's just plain vanilla. And we have this - er - set up just for flat rate, and if we go back and look at the quick edit link here, we will see that this is the $10 base rate. And if we go to the checkout right now, every order would cost $10. - but..<br />
<br />
Let's just say that we are actually going to charge per item that we put in the cart; that we do not want a flat rate. We want to charge per item with a minimum of $10. Let's say $10 plus $5 for each item that we add to the cart. Because each of these things costs us money to send. Let's go ahead and work on that. We'll use CALCULATION RULES to do that.<br />
<br />
Again: our goal is to have a $10 flat rate, which we already have, and to add to that $5 for each item that they [the customer] have in their cart. So each item is not a line item; it is line item x quantity in that line item , so we have to do the calculation here.<br />
<br />
We are going to go to <u>CALCULATION RULES</u> [tab]...<br />
<br />
|SHIPPING METHODS | SHIPPING SERVICES | <u>CALCULATION RULES</u> |<br />
<br />
...we are going to say "add a calculation rule", and this is going to be [3'00"]<br />
Name: "Add $5 for each product shipped", let's say.<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save"></form><br />
When we do this calculation, what we have, is:<br />
We are listening to the...<br />
<b> Events EVENT Calculating a shipping rate</b><br />
...event.<br />
What we get passed into this rule is a shipping line item that is all ready-to-go; it has everything we need.<br />
But when we see a line item here in this particular rule, it is the shipping line item and of course the shipping line item is associated with the order which can access the rest of the line items, which is what we are going to do.<br />
So we have a shipping line item in our hands. Now we have to, under <b>Actions</b>, we have to add a loop. We have to go through each of the line items and figure-out how much we need to add to the cost of shipping [4' 00"] for that line item.<br />
<br />
We are going to add a loop here: <span style="color: blue;"><b>+loop</b></span>. The List that we are going to loop over is going to be<br />
<b>Add a new loop > List > Data Selector ></b><br />
<form><select> <option selected="selected">Commerce_line_item_order:commerce_line_items</option> </select><b><br />
</b></form><b>t</b>hat is the list. So we are reaching out of our shipping line item out into the parent order , and from there we are getting the line items. So now in the current....<br />
<form></form>Now we have to name these things [by typing a name into the box], so I am going to call this<br />
<b>CURRENT LIST ITEM > Variable label> "line item"</b> and<br />
<b>CURRENT LIST ITEM> Variable name>line_item</b><br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Continue"></form><br />
Now we have a way to examine every line item.<br />
I am going to add an action...<br />
<b>Actions > OPERATIONS > <span style="color: blue;">Add action</span></b><br />
Be careful to click the <span style="background-color: white;"><b><span style="color: blue;">+Add action</span></b></span> here [on the right, under OPERATIONS] under the loop rather than under the <b><span style="background-color: #9fc5e8;"><span style="color: blue;">Actions</span></span></b> [at the bottom left of the box in a blue stripe] [5'00"] or it won't be doing the right thing. You can drag these things around and place them in the right place. But this action needs to go under the rule.<br />
<br />
What we are going to do is we are going to calculate data values<br />
<b>Add a new action > Select the action to add > calculate a data value</b><br />
So we are going to multiply the <i>quantity</i> x $5.<br />
We are going to say ... our commerce line item ... quantity : quantity is in there ...<br />
<b>INPUT VALUE 1 (the first input value for the calculation) > Data selector ></b><br />
<form><select> <option selected="selected">commerce line item: quantity</option> </select><b><br />
</b></form>We are going to use multiplication<br />
<hr><b>OPERATOR (the calculation operator) > Value > *</b><br />
Down here we are going to put a value.<br />
<b>INPUT VALUE 2 (the second input value.) > Value > 500</b><br />
In Rules we are always dealing with minor units, so 500 there for £5.<br />
The result of this is going to be [types-in a name][6'00"]<br />
<b>Provided variables > CALCULATION RESULT > Variable label > "Calculated Line Item Shipping"</b><br />
<b>Provided variables > CALCULATION RESULT > Variable name >calculated_line_item_shipping</b><b><br />
</b><br />
So this is the total shipping that we will add for this line item, which comes from multiplying the quantity of the line item times $5.<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save"></form><br />
OK, so now we have that information.<br />
Now we need to add one more action.<br />
I will add an action here<br />
<b>Actions > OPERATIONS > <span style="color: blue;">Add action</span></b><br />
Now what I am going to do (under "Commerce Line Item" among the options on the drop down menu) is choose<br />
<b>Actions > OPERATIONS > Add action > Add an amount to the unit price</b><br />
Here we are adding to the shipping line item's price. We are all set here.<br />
<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save"></form>[7'00"]<br />
The amount, though: I need to switch to<br />
<b>AMOUNT > Data selector and use the</b><br />
<b>AMOUNT > Data selector ></b> <b><br />
</b><br />
<form><select> <option selected="selected">calculated line item shipping</option> </select>...which we have just created.</form>I am going to say that the Component should be flat rate.<br />
<b>PRICE COMPONENT TYPE > Value ></b> <b><br />
</b><select> <option selected="selected">Flat Rate</option> </select>...<br />
This isn't flat-rate shipping any more, but we'll call it that. um - so<br />
What we are doing here is that we are adding another action that applies to this shipping line item that we have in our hands. So. And..<br />
We are going to add the amount that we calculated.<br />
<b>AMOUNT (specify a numeric amount to add to the unit price) > Data Selector ></b><br />
<select> <option selected="selected">calculated-line-item-shipping</option> </select>..... to the existing amunt, and put it into the flat rate. So let's try that.<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save"></form>Take a look at the rule that we have. So this is just a standard thing.<br />
We are listening for when calculating the shipping rate .<br />
We don't have any conditions at all.<br />
We create a loop.<br />
<br />
Actions > ELEMENTS > Loop Parameter: List [commerce_line_item_order...<br />
List Item [line_item]<br />
> Calculate a value<br />
Parameter: Input Value 1 [line_item_quantity], Operator:[*], Input Value 2: 500<br />
> Add an amount to the unit price<br />
<br />
And the loop is... the first thing it does is calculate... [8'00"]<br />
It's a loop of line items, and for each line item, it calculates how much we should charge for that line item by multiplying the quantity - we have 500 here - and then add that amount to the unit price. And now we ought to have this. Let's go ahead and see what we've got.<br />
<form><br />
<br />
I'll go out here [to a shopping page] and see what I've got. I've got some cheap products and some expensive products. I'll buy a Heavy Product <input name="name" type="submit" value="add to cart"> and a Light Product <input name="name" type="submit" value="add to cart"></form>We expect that the shipping should be $10, which was our base rate for shipping, plus $5 for each of these line items. So we are expecting to ay $20. So we go to checkout. Order total is $100. We go to the next step and calculate the shipping. And it shows $20. [9'00"] Which is what we expected. So lets go back and we will do that - lets change the cart where we have one light product, so that we have nine of these products. So now we have ten items in our shopping cart. Ten items in our cart. So were are expecting to pay 10 x 5 + 10, so it should be $60. Let's try that. And the flat rate amount that we are expected to pay is $60. So that's working correctly. Let's go ahead and do that...<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">Oh I wanted to show you one little thing that I like to do when I am working on these things.<br />
I should actually show you two things that I like to do when I am working on these things.<br />
<br />
One is that I always edit the Views that I need to work on, to make them show the components;<br />
I like to see what the components are, that are going-in to these. [10'00"] This [technique] is really useful with tax, and it's really helpful here as well. So you see that we have the flat-rate component. Anyway, I recommend changing the formatter on some of these fields to - Showing all the components, when you are working on something. The<br />
<br />
Other thing that I recommend is:<br />
Always turning-on the Rules debugging when you have any questions. So if you go to<br />
Admin > Configuration > Workflow > Rules, and go to Settings<br />
Turn on "show debugging information Never In case of errors Always.<br />
<form><input name="name" type="submit" value="Save Configuration"></form>And then you will be able to debug - to debug quite a number of things. Let's go back here to our ordering [page]. I'll refresh it. [11'00"]. And here is our old [Rules] evaluation log. We can do down and we can see all of the things that we wanted to see. And drill-down and study them very carefully. It takes a bit [of patience] to get used to this but you really have to do it; you have to understand how that works.<br />
<br />
OK: sorry about that little diversion!</blockquote><br />
What we did is that we wanted to add $5 for every item in our cart.<br />
What we did was we went to Store > Configuration > Shipping and we went to | CALCULATION RULES | this time, and we added a single rule which only had actions in it. It had a loop that went through the line-items and for each line-item it calculated the quantity x 500 (or $5). Then it added that amount; it stored that amount in a variable. It added that amount to the unit price.<br />
OK?<br />
Well I hope that helped, and I hope you're doing well with shipping. Thank you so much for listening<br />
<hr>If anyone is interested in stuff from the same person who transcribed this video, here is a series about Ubercart.</div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<br />
<hr align="left"><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div><br />
<hr>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-89599074612019881352013-06-10T19:33:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:24:04.488+01:00Why is this difficult / expectations for minimum basic shipping<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">Transcribing a video about Drupal Commerce shipping options, I thought I might be on to something.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">A couple of days later I tried to follow the instructions myself and soon discovered that the video describes a simple case, but that other modules exist on the Drupal.org site and here:</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/extensions/module/shipping">https://drupalcommerce.org/extensions/module/shipping</a></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">The trouble is that the ones for a shipping matrix by weight and destination or perhaps courier are not finished.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">One has a dozen or so users.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">One has sixty but writes that the project was halted; there is no user interface, bugs are acknowledged but it is for another maintainer to sort them.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">Those of us who are not in the states obviously need this module more than shopping cart authors need to get them written. To me, a shopping cart is not past alpha release unless it can ship to the home country, part of the world, and the rest of the world on three different weight scales alongside a few more for different kinds of delivery. This is what I already have on my simple entry-level shopping cart from <a href="https://www.mals-e.com/" target="_blank">mals-e commerce</a> which allows 5 types of delivery that can be subdivided according to price or a value that you add to each order form link for weight. Paypal's free shopping cart links probably offers something similar. If you pay a small subscription to mal's you get more options, but most settle for this entry level.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">Obviously, to open source software developers in the states, it is OK to release something and watch people write additional modules that they explain as being un-finished because a project fell-though and they are short of time.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">So: back to watching this video about how to sell things for $0 shipping in Colorado and $10 shipping in the rest of the world, which happens to be the USA. Until I can find an open source shopping cart system that started in Europe.</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">---------------------------------------------------------- </span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;">Transcribed videos about Ubercart - a shortcut for Drupal e-commerce sites<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] </span><br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i>transcibed by a </i><a href="http://veganline.com/"><i>vegan shoe boot & belt shop in the UK: Veganline.com</i> </a></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-16705285626235668832013-06-09T18:14:00.003+01:002018-10-19T13:32:11.878+01:00Introduction to Commerce Shipping by Randy Fay<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="375" mozallowfullscreen="" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/32526283" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="500"></iframe> <br />
<a href="https://vimeo.com/32526283">Introduction to Commerce Shipping</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user5912539">Randy Fay</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.<br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Finally
Commerce_Shipping [module] is coming of age!<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
I want to give you a quick tour of how to do some
things with commerce shipping.<br />
What we're looking
at today is this </div>
</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_shipping">https://drupal.org/project/commerce_shipping</a>
and what we are looking at is the 2.X branch (which as you see
is still a .dev release, but it's working pretty well). What
we are going to do is: we are going to work with that, and we
are going to work with the
</li>
<li><a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_flat_rate">https://drupal.org/project/commerce_flat_rate</a>
project which is new (and it's also a .dev release) and it works
with the 2.x version of Commerce_Shipping.
</li>
</ul>
So that's what we are going to work with. (and) [50" fifty
seconds into the video]<br />
What we are going to
do is, first of all, <br />
<ul>
<li>we are going to create a flat rate shipping class; we are
going to say that it costs $10 to ship. Then, after we
experiment with that,
</li>
<li>we are going to create free shipping, for products that are
within Colorado. So we'll just go and change the rules, and we'll
have free shipping within Colorado, and $10 shipping outside
Colorado. So lets' give that a shot.<br clear="ALL" />
</li>
</ul>
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
First of all go and enable the modules. So we
will go over and enable the modules here [from modules>list
he uses a filter to find "shipping" and "flat rate"
which are installed as part of the Kickstart distribution he's
using]. OK. Well. I'd already enabled them, but those are the
ones that you want, and you'll find them under Commerce (Shipping)
[picking from a grey-backed column on the left side of a page]
you'll want Flat Rate, Shipping, and Shipping UI. [Shipping User
Interface] <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Later on, in another
podcast in another screencast, I will show you how to do UPS [United
Parcel Service] and in a further screen cast we'll do some more
complicated rules like "free shipping over $100" - that
kind of thing. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
But in
this one, we're just going to do two shipping rates, one for within
Colorado and one for outside Colorado. We'll give that a
shot and see if we can make that work. <br />
<br clear="ALL" />
So the first thing we're going to do is: we'll go-over
to Store>Configuration>Shipping, and we're going to take
a look at what we have here: We have [three
tabs] - <br />
<br />
| <u>Shipping Methods</u> | Shipping Services | Calculation Rules |<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
All we are going to do today is
we're going to look at | <u>Shipping Methods</u> |, which is just there
[the visible tab] by default: Flat Rate [method] is what we've
got [by default], and | Shipping Services |. We can have one or more
Flat Rate Shipping Services. You could think of them as "shipping
instances", or whatever you want to call them. <br />
[3'10"]<br />
I'm going to say "add a flat rate service",
[does so] and I'm going to say... I am going to call it "Flat
Rate", and it's going to be $10. And now we have a new shipping
service, under the tab<br />
<br />
| Shipping Methods| <u>Shipping Services</u> | Calculation Rules | <br />
<br />
Display
Title: flat rate... ... ... ... so this is all set-up. It
will automatically be available as a shipping method for any purchase
that we make. So let's go ahead and make a purchase. We'll
buy "product three" - how about that! Checkout.
And [add] shipping information.-I'm going to be in Palisade Colorado.
Fill this in here. Continue-on. We see that we are offered
Flat Rate Shipping. That is the only service that we have to find.
And we go for it. So, here we are [at the "review your order"
screen] - it's done exactly as we asked: it has added flat-rate
shipping $10 on to our charge. and... I've got no payment
required. I've got free payment. That's not something you'd want
on any site but I can have free payment on this one!<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
OK - so, Now.<br />
I want $10 shipping
in the rest of the USA but in Colorado I want just free shipping.
So there is<br />
What we need to do is create another
"free shipping" type.
We're going to <b>Store>Configuration>Shipping, </b>and we're going
to add another flat-rate service. We'll call it "free shipping
inside Colorado". [copies text for display title. leaves
description blank]. And... price is zero. [presses "save"]
And now we have another service: it's called "free shipping
inside Colerado"<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
What
we need to do now is remember that this is a Rules component [of
the Rules module]. Every rule has an <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>event, a </li>
<li>condition
[or condions] and an </li>
<li>action. [points to the Conditions and
Actions sections of the screen]. </li>
</ul>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Events are what a rule
listens to, conditions decide whether it takes the action, and
actions which are things that we are going to do. We are already listening for the "rate shipping"
event, and we are going to say "should this rule apply to
us", in other words "should we select free shipping"
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="ALL" />
[5'19"]<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
...so I'm going to add a condition [from a long
drop-down menu including "Commerce Order" as a subheading
in bold], and it's going to be a Commerce Order address component
comparison. So there we go. The value that I want to compare against:
the address that I want to use is the shipping address.. The address
component that I want to compare is, first of all, I want to compare
the Country. I'll make sure we get the country in there. Otherwise,
there might be a "CO" abbreviation in some other country.
By the way, this is the two-character country code for the country
that I was talking about. So we have a condition for that.
Now we are going to add one for the State. We're going to do the
exact same thing again - Add a new condition> ORDER>Data
selector> commerce_order<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
It's
the shipping address that we want... [on the same page further
down]<br />
ADDRESS COMPONENT>Value>Administrative
area (State / Province).<br />
VALUE>Value<br />
The two-letter code for Colerado is CO. <br />
Save.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
So now we have - er - two conditions
on there [in the Conditions ELEMENTS box] One is: <br />
Is
the country US? The other is<br />
Is the state Colerado?<br />
Then we're going to add that there [in the Actions
ELEMENTS box below].<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
So now
we are going to go back and fix the other one so that we don't
offer free shipping. <br />
So let's go ahead and do that: we're not
going to offer free shipping anytime that they are not shipping
to Colerado. So: <b>Store>Configuration>Shipping>ShippingServices</b>
<br />
And now we have to edit the flat rate - and this we don't want
to offer if they are outside Colerado.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
So let's just say that we only
want to offer shipping in the US, because that's [ ] a separate
thing. So lets just go ahead and say [on Add a new condition]
ORDER>Data selector ...<br />
and the value of the
administrative area [options are = / not = / contains] lets
say "equals" CO. And then we're going to say [with a
tick box just above the save button at the bottom of the page]
"Negate": [9'30"] This does not contain Colerado
so don't do it. Save.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
Lets
go ahead and add the other condition, about the US.<br />
Add
a new condition > Select the condition to add > drop down
menu<br />
Commerce Cart > ?<br />
...just
in case there is some other sort of thing [that has a CO abbreviation].
We'd probably take care of this another way, by offering a different
shipping [service] outside the US, [which would] just tell them
that we couldn't do it. <br />
DATA SELECTOR > Country
> <br />
OPERATOR > equals<br />
...just
for now I am going to say "equals US"<br />
We
are going to say that this [flat rate shipping rule] applies to
shipping that is in the US, but is outside Colerado. <br />
[...]<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
And so now lets go-see if that
works: [10'35"]<br />
...you'll see that it already
thinks that I'm in Colorado. No - it just doesn't know yet. It
didn't ahve any information. Now we know. Now lets try again.
Lets try shifting the state to Kentucky. ...and now it's offering
only the flat rate $10 ammount. So now it's doing what we told
it to do. The first time we tried this, we didn't have a way to
choose [where we are] at the checkout.<br />
<br clear="ALL" />
...Colerado: then we get free shipping.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
Let's just take a look at what we've done. First
of all we've used <br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_shipping">Commerce_Shipping</a>
[module] 2.X . We've used<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_flat_rate">Commerce_Flat_Rate</a>
- (<br />
not the older (what do you call it?)... not the older Commerce_Shipping_Flat_Rate,
which is basically depricated now. <br />
Using those
two, we have gone-in to Drupal admin (with Drupal Commerce enabled
and a Store menu on admin). <br />
<ul>
<li>We have gone into <b>Admin>Store>Configuration>Shipping</b>
</li>
<li>We have a flat rate SHIPPING METHOD.
</li>
<li>We hae added two services. Let's take a look at the two services
we added. The two services are
</li>
<li>Flat Rate (Machine name flat_rate), which is the $10 one,
and
</li>
<li>free Shipping inside Colorado (Machine name free_shipping_inside_colerado),
which would be $0.
</li>
<li>And then we added a Rules component to make sure that they
were chosen at the right time. So free shipping is chosen if
we are shipping to the US, and we are shipping to Colerado.
</li>
<li>And we did the opposite on the other one. <br clear="ALL" />
</li>
</ul>
So that's the basics! That's the first and easiest configuration
of flat rate shipping .<br />
I will do a couple more
screen casts. I'll do one on Commerce_UPS, which is now working,
and I'll also do one on fancy rules. So, thanks for listening,
and see you in the issue queue and everywhere else! Thanks - bye
bye.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i>Transcribed by a <a href="http://veganline.com/">vegan shoe site called Veganline.com that sells nonleather shoes boots & belts</a></i></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
.</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-51116492171900453822013-05-27T15:17:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:24:05.876+01:00Space Hog<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="http://www.freelock.com/blog/john-locke/2011-10/top-6-reasons-drupal-really-sucks-developer-edition">http://www.freelock.com/blog/john-locke/2011-10/top-6-reasons-drupal-really-sucks-developer-edition</a><br />
<br />
...teaches me that I'm not alone in finding Drupal a space hog for space cadets who do not pay for their own server space. Apparently this is a bad side to its good side - enough hooks for a knitting machine, each of which can open some memory-based function or other. I also read about its history. Recently a collection of modules which were sometimes supported or sometimes released as a favour to other savvy coders, then transforming into a platform for using Rules and Views modules. I was going to add a picture of a space hog, but that's a distraction and anyway it was mocked-up: the pig did not suffer. Do not send pigs into space.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/010/7/4/pig_in_space_by_cy4ntic-d4lxsep.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Space Hog" border="0" src="http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/010/7/4/pig_in_space_by_cy4ntic-d4lxsep.jpg" height="181" title="Space Hog" width="200" /></a></div>
By the way, why to americans say "sucks" for "bad"? Is this a macho thing? There's a strange convention that you search for X+sucks to find what's wrong with something. <br />
<br />
On
the same page I discover that a system called Code Igniter with a
flexicart add-on is designed for cheapskate shopkeepers who play on
their computers. Maybe in a week or two I will find another web page
called "why code igniter is bad" (or kicks ass for bums or whatever americans say). Meanwhile there is a Bitnami windows
stack of programs to run it so here goes: it should have downloaded by now.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://bitnami.com/download/files/stacks/wampstack/5.4.15-0/bitnami-wampstack-5.4.15-0-windows-installer.exe?with_popup_signin=1">http://bitnami.com/download/files/stacks/wampstack/5.4.15-0/bitnami-wampstack-5.4.15-0-windows-installer.exe?with_popup_signin=1</a><br />
<br />
Oh: an hour later I am still making sense of Bitnami instructions. Apparently Code Igniter is not pre-installed in the same way as Wordpress or Drupal. There is some requirement to understand how these stacks of programs work in order to start it and see what it is, in order to understand how it works. Learning about software by trial and error is slow, sometimes.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">This blog</a> is by a <a href="http://veganline.com/">vegan footwear site called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes boots & belts</a></i></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br /></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-51149234577849096442013-05-17T16:50:00.002+01:002018-10-19T13:30:59.187+01:00Why is this difficult / videos v. forums v. blogs<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
A paid video about wordpress ecommerce mentions <i>"so many people banging their heads against the wall in the forums"</i> on some tricky point.<br />
<br />
Free videos, made more quickly, do not even mention forums. <br />
<br />
Forum posts cannot easily describe free videos either; they cannot write <i>"the part about X at 6'32" doesn't make sense to me"</i> because not many people would reply unless there is a transcript, and for some reason the videos such as <a href="https://vimeo.com/search/sort:date/format:thumbnail?q=%22Drupal+Commerce" target="_blank">Commerce Guy's videos on Vimeo</a> do not have transcripts. This is a pity for<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>non-english speakers</b>, who have trouble translating the less clear parts, and for </li>
<li><b>english speakers like me</b> who have trouble asking for help in a forum and saying where stuck.</li>
</ul>
I have tried posting in Drupal Commerce forums and got no response. If I transcribe a video there, it looks a bit weird and out of place and probably gets deleted; if I post it here on a blog and link, it looks like an attempt at self publicity and gets ignored (or deleted). So the two ways of learning about Drupal Commerce do not interact; makers of videos do not know where their explanations are tricky, and writers on forums cannot help each other by referring to the right parts of videos.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i>blog by an </i><a href="http://veganline.com/" title"nonleather shoes made in england for vegetarians and vegans"><i>online vegan shoe shop called Veganline.com</i> </a></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<br /></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-87610239673284603632013-05-08T18:28:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:24:08.802+01:00Why is this difficult?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
I thought <a href="http://bitnami.com/stack/wordpress">Wordpress</a> was the simplest fresh start, but found that there is trouble in paradise too -<br />
<a href="http://wordpress.tv/2013/02/18/justin-sainton-wordpress-e-commerce-2/">Wordpress.tv/2013/02/18/justin-sainton-wordpress-e-commerce-2/</a><br />
...tells me that at 4'49" <i>"whatever e-commerce software you use, it's going to be awful in some way", </i>but that e-commerce developing has the best rewards in happy customers when it goes right <br />
<br />
The knack of combining various databases into a site for someone who wants to focus absolutely on shopping carts and not learn anything else is, well, asking for trouble when it gets complicated. In the US, tax is complicated for example.<br />
<br />
In the UK, shipping is complicated. <a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/price_list_for_ecommerce_why_not#incoming-385998">Royal Mail is not kind to plugin-writers</a>,
so any free ones are likely to become out of date. And UK shopkeepers are mercantile people in a little country, unlikely to rule-out selling to Australia or Germany if an order comes-in. All that's needed is a matrix quote system for prices or weights verses zones. Royal Mail has three or four world zones, and you can add more if your products to the UK have different volumes or you use a courier as well. I have a separate post about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html">Royal Mail's zones and prices for ecommerce developers</a>.<br />
<br />
Even if I buy a
textbook about a wordpress plugin or a good clear set of videos by on <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00AMKY5V8/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used" target="_blank">how to use Wordpress for Ecommerce</a> and watch patiently while taking notes, I'm likely to
find an un-acknowledged gap where shipping options ought to be. Or an intended gap.<br />
<br />
Wordpress has several
ecommerce plugins jostling for trade, but all the ones I have
discovered tend to charge for vital things like breathing or shopkeeping
or posting objects via special essential modules. So these programs are open source crippleware, hoping to make money by charging you for something essential.<br />
<br />
<br />
On the other hand, wordpress users seem a lot more recognisable as real low-budget people than Drupal users. There are plenty of plugins for hosting your pictures on flickr or plus.google to save bandwidth and disk space. This saves money. This saves the amount you have to sell in a recession to break even. This keeps you fed when others fail. <br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<br />
<a href="http://bitnami.com/stack/magento">Magento</a> is another easy option, or so I thought, because nearly all my stallholding shopkeeping rivals use it.<br />
I bet a packet of biscuits that it will have some kind of <b>stock reporting system</b> that can be used for wholesale customers as an essential, and for stock control as a desirable option.<br />
I bet one of my hadgehogs that <b>Shipping will probably be sane</b> compared to other carts. You just fill-in a configuration column about how many countries you would like to ship to, and I haven't finished the instructions but I guess that everything might be included in the core program with no ifs and buts and demands for £50 software. I don't know if zones will be allowed, or if every customer has to scroll through a list of countries starting with American Samoa, but something will be available.<br />
<br />
<b>Instructions exist</b>, by the way. You type your version and language into a site and it emails you a 250 page .pdf book to read beginning to end, or to page 45 in my case.<br />
<br />
A nifty .php file will check whether your test server suits Magento,
and none of my 100% free accounts allowed it, but a nearly free one
called <a href="http://www.freehostia.com/free-chocolate.html">Freehostia Chocoloate</a> passed the test. (Freehostia Chocolate is free if you have a spare mainstream domain). Officially is allows 250MB <a href="http://www.t1shopper.com/tools/calculate/">equalling </a>262,144,000
bytes of disc space. Five hours later my attempted FTP upload stopped
for lack of space after I tried uploading 6,396,182 bytes from Bitnami
as a first experiment. This was just the relevant-looking files in a
folder called Magento. This does not come-up in the easiest-to-find comparisons of shopping cart software.<br />
<br />
<br />
Magento finds cheap servers a problem, as does Drupal. The programs are gross.<br />
<a href="http://www.lchost.co.uk/">My fast UK web server that I want to use for real shopkeeping</a> has these price breaks for disc space. It's smaller than some free but slower ones. Prices are per year (developers please note that servers can be priced per year as well as per month)<br />
<b>0200MB £050</b> + 20% tax<br />
<b>0400MB £100</b> + 20% tax<br />
<b>0600MB £150</b> + 20% tax<br />
<b>1200MB £250</b> + 20% tax<br />
<br />
Further Googling finds that Magento likes to cache a lot. It has complex internal tables. And I haven't yet seen a free plugin that lets you host your pictures on a free website. So, basically, I can see why I am still in business and some rivals who use Magento have been struggling a bit in a recession. Maybe that's why some of them are on slower servers.<br />
<br />
As with other shopping cart software, enthusiasts who sell support or blog about the product seem unaware of why it's difficult or even doesn't work for so many users. <br />
<br />
I have another post called <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html" title="Choosing shopping cart software for ecommerce">Free Fast and Pretty: which shopping cart?</a> but it is has no clear conclusion yet.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-29505435233229297202013-02-26T19:13:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:24:10.188+01:00Ambiguous instructions and hidden costs<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: x-large;">Ambiguous instructions</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: x-large;">Hidden costs</span></li>
</ul>
<br />
These are the problems for Drupal, made better or worse by evangelical support from people who give lectures or go to groups. It seems rude to someone who is saying <i>"straight out of the box"</i> in a lecture that the thing does not even turn-on for some parts of the audience. It seems rude to parts of the audience that a product does not work from available instructions, and incurs hidden costs.<br />
<br />
Just for now I will experiment with Wordpress E-commerce but hope to come back when the first textbook writer dares put instructions in print. I have paid my deposit.</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-79670147165184277282013-02-13T15:38:00.006+00:002018-10-21T10:24:11.759+01:00Inline Entity Form Module<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><a href="https://vimeo.com/40933753">https://vimeo.com/40933753</a> - I hope this transcript is copied and improved by others. <a href="http://lbt.me/Wyw">http://lbt.me/Wyw</a> is another page on the same subject, mentioned on the module download page.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://commerceguys.com/blog/commerce-module-tuesday-inline-entity-form">http://commerceguys.com/blog/commerce-module-tuesday-inline-entity-form</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi!. I'm Bojan and I work for Commerce Guys. This is Commerce Module Tuesday. Today I will show you the <span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><a href="https://drupal.org/project/inline_entity_form">Inline Entity Form Module</a>.</b></span> <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif;">[included in some commerce kickstart installations]</span></span><br>
It provides a complex widget for reference fields that allows to modify and delete reference entities inline, as well as at<br>
For Drupal Commerce, this means that it solves two important use-cases.<br>
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>First of all it unifies the management of <i>product-displays</i> and <i>products</i>, allowing you to handle both, from the <i>product display</i>, and <i>edit</i> pages.<br></li>
<li>Secondly, it also provides more flexible line-item functionality, giving you the ability to <i>modify custom fields that you attach to the line items</i>.</li>
</ol>
<hr>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">The management of Product Displays and Products</span><br>
<hr>
[there is a comment below which might make sense of this]<br>
<br>
Let me show you what I mean. I have here a Commerce Kickstart 1 installation [the one with Product One, Product Two, Product Three on the front and a standard Drupal admin menu] , and I have already downloaded and enabled the <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Inline Entity Form</span></b> module - the Beta 1 version. [which is included in Commerce Kickstart 2 by default].<br>
<br>
Lets imagine for a moment that we are building a website for a company that sells T shirts.<br>
<br>
I already went-ahead and created a new<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Store > Products</span></span><br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> + Add product type</span></span><br>
product type called <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">T shirt</span></b>. Aside from the usual fields like <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Image</span></b> and <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Price</span></b>, it also has the <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Color</span></b> and <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Size</span></b> fields, which point to the vocabularies which hold the allowed colours and sizes for a <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">T shirt</span></b>.<br>
<br>
In e-commerce language, a product can have several variations. So a sample T shirt can have a new variation for each of the combinations of <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Color</span></b> and <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Size</span></b>, and each of those variations has a different <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">SKU</span></b> [part number]. So in Drupal Commerce this means that for each variation, you create a new Product, and then you create a new Product Display that references all those variations, and allows the user to select the correct one. So I have four sizes and four colours. I need to go to the add product page [clicks "create T shirt"]<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Store > Products</span></span><br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> Create Product</span></span><br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> <span style="color: black;">a basic product type.</span></span></span><br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> Create T shirt</span></span><br>
...and create sixteen different products. Then I would need to go to the...<br>
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: blue;">Products > Actions > Add a product</span></span> <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"></span></span></span><br>
<span style="background-color: white;"> <span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Add Product Display</span></span></span><br>
...page, and reference the sixteen products that I have created.<br>
<br>
The product display field looks like this, at the bottom of the product page.<br>
<span style="background-color: yellow;"><b><span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: #f3f3f3;">I can't find it on the page though. This is where, for me, the video is ambiguous and I do not know how to follow it in order to set-up shop, even after transcribing it carefully<span style="font-size: large;">. It <span style="font-size: large;">is better than av<span style="font-size: large;">erage <span style="font-size: large;">among the <span style="font-size: large;">videos transcribed here, but I <span style="font-size: large;">guess <span style="font-size: large;">that the people making the v<span style="font-size: large;">ide<span style="font-size: large;">os do not know where <span style="font-size: large;">th<span style="font-size: large;">ey make sense or don't make sense, and that's why there is often a bit th<span style="font-size: large;">at's impossible to follow for some <span style="font-size: large;">p<span style="font-size: large;">eople watching.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></b></span> <b></b><br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br>
<b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product</span></b><br>
<form><input name="name" size="60" type="text"></form>
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Choose the product(s) to display for sale on this node by SKY. Enter multiple SKUs using a comma separated list.</span></blockquote>
<br>
<br>
I'm going to go to <span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Structure > Content Types > Product Display > Manage Fields</span></span> (which is 2nd tab) &<br>
you will see here (4th line) that we have a Product Reference Field. I am going to edit it.<br>
<br>
The first thing is that I am going to change the label to <i>Product Variations</i> because it is slightly more user-friendly in my opinion. We are going to delete the help text because it is not going to be shown anyway.<br>
<br>
And I am going to limit the product types that can be referenced to T Shirts alone,<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product types that can be referenced</span></b></blockquote>
<form>
<blockquote><i><input name="vehicle" type="checkbox" value="Product"></i><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product</span><br>
<i><input name="vehicle" type="checkbox" value="T shirt"></i><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">T-shirt</span></blockquote>
[using a tick box under the help text field labelled "product types that can be referenced" and un-ticking "Product"]<br>
and save that [using the grey save button at the bottom of the page]<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><input name="none" type="submit" value="save settings"></blockquote>
Now I am going to edit it again [using the edit tab to change screens],<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Structure > Content types > Product display > Manage Fields > Product Variations</span></span><br>
<br>
and change the widget to the Inline entity form.<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">CHANGE WIDGET</span></b></blockquote>
</form>
<blockquote><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Widget type</span></b><br>
<select>
<option selected="selected">inline entity form</option>
<option>item two</option>
<option>item three</option>
</select></blockquote>
<br>
Done.<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<form><input name="none" type="submit" value="Continue"></form>
</blockquote>
<br>
So:<br>
36'36" Let's go ahead and add a new product display now. [does so on screen]<br>
<br>
You will see when you scroll-down that, instead of having a simple product reference field, I now have the complex vision that is provided by the inline product entity form. I have a product-variation inline-form opened by default. And that form contains three groups for all the product information. So,<br>
in the first group, I have <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">product atributes</span></b>,<br>
in the second group I have the <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">SKU</span></b>, [types on in] the <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">price</span>, and then any other custom fields that might be added under 'attributes', and<br>
in the third group I have variation <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">image</span></b>. [uploads image]<br>
So I click<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<form><input name="none" type="submit" value="save variation"></form>
</blockquote>
...and the first variation is there.<br>
Let me go-ahead and add a few more.<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<form><input name="none" type="submit" value="add variation"></form>
</blockquote>
[does so]<br>
So: all of my variations are now here.<br>
I have added all of them from the same screen: not leaving the product display add-product page, and not needing to know anything about Drupal Commerce architecture underneath.<br>
<br>
If I need to, of course, I can delete a specific variation. For example this one<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"></blockquote>
And of course I can edit the ones that I have already added<br>
Clicking the edit button opens a form right below the row being edited, and allows me to change the inforation that I want to change. [changes a price on screen as an example].<br>
<br>
So, I go ahead and save that [using a button at the bottom of the screen]<br>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><input name="none" type="submit" value="save"></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
5'32" And you will see that it now works!<br>
<br>
And I also want to make it possible for the user to reference multiple product types. In which case they can go back and enable the...<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product types that can be referenced</span></b><br>
<i><input name="vehicle" type="checkbox" value="Product"></i><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product</span></blockquote>
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> </span>...product as well. And now when I go back, [clicking to another browser tab] you will see that the widget has changed.<br>
<br>
<br>
Instead of just having an "add variation" button, I also have a drop-down option to select the appropriate product type. If I click "select product" and click "add", I will get an add form for <i>this</i> product type. Which for example does not have any attribute fields. Different product types have different attributes, which are not shown in the table itself. Instead I have the <i>variation title</i>. And this one is automatically generated by the ???? form, by taking the <span style="font-family: "Courier New", Courier, monospace;">node title</span> and appending any attributes, if they exist.<br>
6'30"<br>
<br>
Of course, you can turn this functionality off if you want to. So...<br>
I can, once again, go to the <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">INLINE ENTITY FORM</span></b> field set, and disable auto-generating of the product title.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">INLINE ENTITY FORM: <i>COMMERCE PRODUCT</i></span></b><i><br>
<input name="vehicle" type="checkbox" value="Product"></i><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Auto generate the product title</span></blockquote>
<form><br>
press save<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><input name="none" type="submit" value="save settings"></blockquote>
<br>
So now [going back to the previous page] I now get an actual <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Variation Title</span></b> field on the add and edit screens, allowing you full control over the product variation type.<br>
<br>
7'00"<br>
<br>
We currently don't have a UI (user interface) for detirmining which columns should be shown in the table. There is an open issue in the issue queues (on the Commerce web site discussion board). Feel free to comment on that. And that's it for managing products!<br>
<br>
<hr>
<span style="font-size: x-large;">modify custom fields that you attach to the line items.</span><br>
<hr>
Lets take a look at various cases.<br>
<br>
<br>
So: these T shirts might have the customer's name printed on them.<br>
<br>
So I have added a custom field to the line items called <b>Print Name</b> which allows the customer to enter the name which they want to be printed on the T shirt. [this shows to customers next to color and size. We act like a customer fill it in with the name Bojan, then press order buttons to take this T shirt through the shopping cart]<br>
<br>
Now, the problem occures when the store administrator looks at the orders<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Store > Orders</span></span> EDIT Tab<br>
So he sees one and goes to edit it [an edit link on the line leads us to tab two of three], but he has no way to edit the print name field, and if he tries to add a new T-shirt, he can only select the product, but not actually fill-in the print-name-field or other custom fields that might be added.<br>
<br>
One again, the inline entity form helps-out here. So I can go to<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Store > Configuration > Order settings></span></span> MANAGE FIELDS tab<br>
[looking at a table ith columns LABEL, NAME, FIELD] - you will see that I have a line-item reference here, with the line item editor widget. [the last two columns are WIDGET and OPERATIONS, which included EDIT and DELETE]. [Clicking on "edit" leads to another tabbed page - EDIT, FIELD SETTINGS, WIDGET TYPE, DELETE. We click the WIDGET TYPE tab and see a drop-down menu.<br>
and change the widget to the Inline entity form.<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">CHANGE WIDGET<br>
Widget type</span></b></blockquote>
</form>
<blockquote><select>
<option selected="selected">inline entity form</option>
<option>item two</option>
<option>item three</option>
</select></blockquote>
<br>
And now when I go back to the same<br>
<span style="color: blue;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Store > Orders</span></span><br>
page, you will see that the widget has changed it. [the culumns for each line shown under the EDIT tab are<br>
LABEL, UNIT PRICE, QUANTITY, TOTAL OPERATIONS, with<br>
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br></blockquote>
showing in the last column. I now have a proper edit button allowing me to change all the information on this line item, including the <b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">print name</span></b> field. I can also add new items, and fill-in all the relevant information.<br>
<br>
So: that's it for the inline entity form [module of included in Kickstart 2]. Feel free to provide feedback with the issue queue, Internet Relay Chat - and see you next week!.<br>
<hr align="left">
<br>
Transcribed videos: -<br>
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br>
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br>
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br>
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br>
<br>
<hr align="left">
<div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-50211989770456444212012-12-25T11:43:00.004+00:002018-10-21T10:24:13.160+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">Happy winter!<br />
<br />
The new Commerce Kickstart installation is OK with a few error messages <i>"right out of the box"</i> as they say on the videos, and seems to work very slowly. Ignoring the error messages, I know from using Drupal Core that there is a heading in the menus called <i>performance</i> for things like cache to turn-on and make it fast. How to turn them on in Kickstart?<br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://drupal.org/project/drupal">Core Drupal 7:</a> I can speed-up the program by turning-on the cache (but I can't follow instructions for adding a product which is tricky, so I'm not using this dashboard for my shop). In Core Drupal, I try menu options until <i>Configuration</i>: my speeding-up options are in a box there marked <i>Performance</i>. Once there, the path reads:<br />
<br />
<i>Home » Administration » Configuration » Development</i> </li>
</ul><div class="breadcrumb"><br />
</div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_kickstart">Commerce Kickstart 7.2</a>: I can <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/discussions/1722/how-does-commerce-bulk-product-creation-work">begin to follow instructions for adding a product</a>, but I can't speed-up the program by finding the cache setting and turning it on. Moreover, the jargon has changed. Core Drupal had <i>nodes</i> and now has <i>content.</i> Commerce Kickstart has - something I still need to get my head around, which uses other terms. <br />
<br />
Found the answer! There are two <i>settings</i> menus and the second hides a lot of tekkie stuff away somewhere where I thought I'd looked, but had missed it. It's easy to miss something called <i>Development</i> when you know you're not a great developer. Trying the Kickstart web site it turns-out that <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/discussions/4666/cache-where-turnon">I have asked this question before and got an answer</a>, suggesting that cache still does exist so I had another look.<br />
<br />
<div class="breadcrumb clearfix"><i>Home> Administration> Site settings> Advanced settings> Configuration> Development> Performance</i></div><br />
</li>
</ul><br />
I was going to post a great picture of a man in Pants to Poverty undies standing next to a decorated cow, but their Shopify site is down today. <br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
Update: Pants to Poverty have a picture of a dressed-up cow back online today, and I have disabled the overlay module which helps according to guides like <a href="http://friendlymachine.net/posts/2011/5-ways-to-improve-performance-in-drupal">http://friendlymachine.net/posts/2011/5-ways-to-improve-performance-in-drupal</a><br />
<br />
Update: Pants to Poverty are now on <a href="http://pantstopoverty.org.uk/" TITLE="knickers to unemployment: why pants to poverty closed">http://pantstopoverty.org.uk</a> <br />
<br />
Oh. That page doesn't mention <b>disabling the Overlay module</b> [done] and replacing Toolbar with Admin Menu as other googlable pages do. Do I loose the toolbar if I disable the Toolbar Menu? Probably. One thing I did notice is that the module list is most easily searched from the top left index to modules called "All". I used this to disable the Jiraffe module, which eats money.<br />
<br />
A note for later is that the <b>Boost</b> module works on cheap shared hosting where Memcached doesn't.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJcJbKaCZJs">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJcJbKaCZJs</a> is a Lynda.com video that shows pictures of the sites that speed-y-up modules come from, but doesn't say much about which work with which.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-47852228758642103782012-12-23T15:14:00.006+00:002018-10-21T10:24:14.578+01:00Fatal error: Call to undefined function field_attach_load() in C:\commerce_kickstart-7.x-2.0\includes\entity.inc on line 321<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
There is a new Commerce Kickstart.<br />
Installing it is slow but possible. An option is not to use the special shopkeepers' toolbar. I chose not to, because I have been trying some of the videos on <a href="http://nodeone.se/sv/learn-drupal">http://nodeone.se/sv/learn-drupal</a> and wanted to use the same default tooblar, but without it I didn't manage to follow the product-adding instructions.<br />
<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>With hindsight, I could have googled "Toolbar_magicmenu" and installed the .gz file by clicking "modules" on the admin menu and using the box where you can paste-in the url of a module to install before pressing "install", and probably something after like "enable". Next, "Commerce_Kickstartmenu". </li>
<li>With a reset option to go back to the default install, I can try to do just that, using a confirmation button which says "Kill Me!", as you do.</li>
</ul>
<br />
Having killed my product-less site, I try again: <br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><b>Fatal error</b>: Call to undefined function field_attach_load() in <b>C:\commerce_kickstart-7.x-2.0\includes\entity.inc</b> on line <b>321</b></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Two or three attempts to use control+backarrow, retype second password and click return all fail. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Attempt: I cut the question mark and everything after it from the url and pressed return. This takes me back one stage further in the installation process to a page beginning "</span><br />
<h1 class="page-title">
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Welcome</span></h1>
<div class="sidebar" id="sidebar-first">
<h2 class="element-invisible">
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">
Installation tasks</span></h2>
<ol class="task-list">
<li class="active"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Welcome<span class="element-invisible">(active)</span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Verify requirements</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Set up database</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Install profile</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Configure site</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Configure store</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Finished</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">Thank you for choosing Commerce Kickstart!</span><br />
<br />
I click the "get started" button and fill-in the usual name for the test site. Result? (from memory)<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><b>Fatal error</b>: Call to undefined function field_attach_load() in <b>C:\commerce_kickstart-7.x-2.0\includes\entity.inc</b> on line <b>321</b></span><br />
<br />
bugger. <br />
<br />
On googling the error message I find that Commerce Guys have been producing this syrup-voiced set of videos as though Drupal worked, while some 57 different people in one thread alone out of two or three. Solutions are often highly technical and require knowledge of databases and php files. I am using the most basic installation on an Aquia stack, using a Windows XP computer but it seems that software vendors are unaware of the problem and just use glib meaningless phrases like <i>"right out of the box"</i> instead of addressing problems.<br />
<br />
One of the solutions posted was to <i>"clear the database cache"</i>. I am using Aquia Drupal Stack Installer as suggested in the Tom Geller Youtube video. There is a button for databases. I found one table in this base for cache and deleted the contents. Some success: I now have a basic drupal default logon screen, but no username and password. Another table in the base - the last on the list I think - had "placeholder" for user 1 and password, so I added that and an email and tried again. Is this the start of a revived Commerce Kickstart? No.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><b>Fatal error</b>: Call to undefined function field_attach_load() in <b>C:\commerce_kickstart-7.x-2.0\includes\entity.inc</b> on line <b>321</b></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I can find the file on my hard disc and have a look. Line 321 is the third last of this paragraph:</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> protected function attachLoad(&$queried_entities, $revision_id = <span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">FALSE</span>) {<br /> // Attach fields.<br /> if ($this->entityInfo['fieldable']) {<br /> if ($revision_id) {<br /> field_attach_load_revision($this->entityType, $queried_entities);<br /> }<br /> else {<br /><span style="color: red;"> field_attach_load($this->entityType, $queried_entities);</span><br /> }<br /> } <b> </b></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Times, "Times New Roman", serif;">Using <a href="http://notepad-plus-plus.org/">Notepad++</a> as a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notepad%2B%2B">handy bit of free editing software</a></span><b> </b><span style="font-family: inherit;">I try turning "FALSE" into "TRUE" in the file above. No difference in outcomes. I try deleting contents of the cache again. Same again. This is a bit like trying to fly without any wings and I have no idea what I am doing</span></span></span><br />
<hr />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">here are some Ubercart instuctions. Ubercart hopes to be a shortcut to writing ecommerce sites using Drupal.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] </span></span></span><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-71094427795047681602012-10-23T14:04:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:24:15.981+01:00Commerce Kickstart 2 works on my hard disc now<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<b>Commerce Kickstart 2 works on my hard disc now</b>, <br />
very slowly, but seems to speed-up a little bit now the cache is turned-on<br />
<br />
Installation was very very slow. It takes a lot of pottering-about and avoiding the computer while blue bars work their way from left to right across the screen over an hour or so.<br />
<br />
Installation of the full Kickstart 2 with core Drupal installed a slightly older version of Drupal core. <br />
<br />
Discoveries or methods: <b>Drupal Core can be unpacked on the desktop </b><br />
(with anything except windows unzipping utility which can change file names) <br />
<br />
Every drupal standard file can be cut-and-pasted in one go over the top of your old Drupal Core installation.<br />
(non standard files are in the "sites" folder which should not be cut and pasted)<br />
(there are probably other complications, but this method worked for me to replace a new old Drupal with a new new Drupal within a version number)<br />
<br />
<strike>Experiments that didn't work.</strike><br />
<strike>Tweaking the auto-installed Aquia Drupal didn't work. I couldn't get rid of all their bits from the control panel, nor cut-and-paste over them in the folder. </strike><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-58127416805004515042012-10-20T19:21:00.006+01:002018-10-21T10:24:17.376+01:00new start<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjARVb1IkFP3C9_NMgfdPzD56XcKw97hCCEaU3veyMqlwcII51UEVf0lbeGz1kE-YSob0DCK4Suxz08HRPItAOUA5zZ1Lq7HRXmNZThwXbYQXWNrECWWiIucL1FN9hvFCx76NHKLi5xzLh/s1600/pan-am.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Big business can pay for people to be polite to the executives by over-charging" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjARVb1IkFP3C9_NMgfdPzD56XcKw97hCCEaU3veyMqlwcII51UEVf0lbeGz1kE-YSob0DCK4Suxz08HRPItAOUA5zZ1Lq7HRXmNZThwXbYQXWNrECWWiIucL1FN9hvFCx76NHKLi5xzLh/s1600/pan-am.jpg" title="Big business can pay for people to be polite to the executives by over-charging" /></a>After a day trying to change the Drupal version XXXfecking!x core, I decided that maybe someone else will work-out how to do this more simply in future as has been very well done for modules. I am still happy each time I download a module in a lazy way, knowing what a chore it was to move files about and read or amend text files next to them a year or two ago; so much depends on things that vary between individual users, like whether I had put my altered & site-specific files in a folder called "sites" away from the default files, and whether I have read the text tile called readme.txt which tells me to rename the default.settings.txt file to "settings.txt" and change a line in it. All fine if you're used to it and good at it but otherwise a bit like trying to fly before there were seats on cheap airlines; the choice is pay or make your own plane and ask strangers online for advice while they can't see what you are building. And if you're selling honest goods made in a democratic welfare state, there isn't the margin to pay, as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case">McDonalds</a> <a href="http://eater.com/archives/2012/09/05/groups-says-vegetarian-mcdonalds-humiliate-hindus.php">still do</a>, to get a good version of Commerce Kickstart going.<br />
<br />
Following the <a href="http://www.dcommerce.co.cc/2011/11/drupal-7-essential-traininggetting.html">Youtube video by Tom Geller that I transcribed before</a>, I'm using Aquia Drupal's stack installer. Can I just adapt the Aquia Drupal that comes with it from scratch? There is a nag message that says I should disable and delete all their chosen extra modules before it goes, and then says that some of the modules cannot be disabled. I ask the sales chat thingey: "<span class="habla_conversation_text_span hbl_pal_main_fg ">How
do I uninstall the Aquia modules? (I want to keep things simple for now
and maybe use Aquia help later, so I want to start with core drupal and
nothing else)"</span><br />
<div class="habla_conversation_p_item hbl_pal_main_fg olrk_new_sender" id="habla_msg_1">
<span class="habla_conversation_person2 hbl_pal_remote_fg ">Answer: "</span><span class="habla_conversation_text_span hbl_pal_main_fg ">just go to <a href="http://static.olark.com/jsclient/follow.html?_ok=2074-310-10-9406&wcsid=nmZ3pYjsDH5pdY5KZflkzC4O20743165&_oklv=1350843457570,nmZ3pYjsDH5pdY5KZflkzC4O20743165&hblid=9klDJ63nFfVTSteXTbWvfNle20743165&_okgid=8815ce24a39e062398ce82760e382488&olfsk=olfsk04431108762459912&url=aHR0cDovL2RydXBhbC5vcmc=&host=www.acquia.com" target="_top">drupal.org</a> and download Drupal 7 core". So I am back to following the </span><a href="http://www.dcommerce.co.cc/2011/11/drupal-7-essential-traininggetting.html">Youtube video by Tom Geller that I transcribed before.</a><br />
<br /></div>
</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-25162523797344718692012-10-20T17:44:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:24:18.765+01:00/q=user (when locked out after trying to replace drupal core)<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Upgrading Drupal Core. Why? Because the machine told me to, and because I can't upgrade Kickstarter 1 to Kickstarter 2 and an old Drupal Core might be the reason.<br />
<br />
How to upgrade? I've forgotten. It's about moving a bunch of default files to the right directory, which you have to be able to find, and changing "default.settings.php" to "settings.php" with a line changed to "TRUE" instead of "FALSE" if you are locked out of your site. I can't keep track of what I've done or explain it, but after a day searching for any files with "TRUE" or "FALSE" in them on my hard disc and changing about all of them, I was still locked out until finding this post:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://groups.drupal.org/comment/reply/134314/437279">http://groups.drupal.org/comment/reply/134314/437279</a> which suggests <a href="http://yoursite.com/?q=user" title="http://yoursite.com/?q=user">http://yoursite.com/?q=user</a> as a way to log-on.<br />
<br />
Happiness!<br />
It only works on one of my sites.<br />
The site is still using the old version of Drupal core which I thought I had deleted.<br />
But something has happened, anyway. </div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-47683349005397159792012-10-18T12:20:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:24:20.162+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="http://www.meetup.com/Learning-Drupal-Meetup/events/83426292/">http://www.meetup.com/Learning-Drupal-Meetup/events/83426292/</a> was free to anyone sober, organised enough to remember the date, and book a day or so in advance so this time I was able to go! Surprisingly, it's quite easy to sit at the back and be relaxed, and the other 62 attenders looked relaxed too.<br />
<br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
<br />
John Kennedy of Commerce Guys showed <b><a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_kickstart">Kickstart 2</a> which looked good enough to use as it is for shopkeeping</b>, specially now that there are instructions with annotated screenshots. The default site has sized goods in stock and sections to show different types of goods. In the UK they only deal with the biggest customers but "coaching deals" might be affordable and help Commerce Guys get established too.<br />
<br />
Asked if there are any rules of thumb about the servers it works on, he says that a security certificate - "SSL Layer" and user authentication add strain beyond the basic Drupal 7. His firm mainly deals with orders over dozens of thousands of pounds, but for people like me the reply meant "use off-site processing to save server costs". Search is a strain on the server too.<br />
<br />
Asked if there is an upgrade path from Kickstart 1, he says that there need not be. <a href="https://drupal.org/node/1637402">I'm having trouble though</a>. Today my hard disc server from Aquia Drupal says it would like a new Drupal Core, so maybe that's the hitch. <a href="http://www.dcommerce.co.cc/2012/02/drupal-7-doesnt-work-on-cheap-hosting.html?showComment=1329948982823#c5683804477734155815">Someone posted suggestions below as well</a>, and I'm sure there's a lecture at a Drupal show somewhere about how to reduce server load. It said that external search helped and that caches help - something called Varnish for anonymous users.<br />
<br />
John (?) gave an introductory grammer lesson in Drupal similar to <a href="https://drupal.org/documentation/structure">https://drupal.org/documentation/structure</a> which is a bit I have always skipped because I'm keen to get-on with ecommerce. For my own benefit and probably wrong..<br />
<br />
<b>Nodes</b> have urls & titles. They can be part of a page, blog, or other content type. They can be displated in part. The default urls are "node" and a number.<br />
<br />
<b>Blocks</b> have content & place. They can be (?) pretty much freehand html in a wrapper, or they can be generated by Views.<br />
<br />
<b>Themes</b> are an abstracted layer where hypertext mark-up, style sheets and javascript go into one code file called .info . If the theme is called pants, the file is called pants.info . <br />
<br />
In are theme, blocks are allocated to Regions along the usual classic lines like header, footer, content, and less classically <i>"sidebar one"</i> and <i>"sidebar two"</i>. This new jargon is because users with left-to-write languages like Hebrew use them differently, so they're not labelled "sidebar left" and "sidebar right" any more. This and countless other tweaks and updates like compatibility with mobile browsers are good to get from a <i>base theme</i>, of which there are several, if you want to make your own design on top. Regions for example are fairly easy to create once you have a working base theme.<br />
<br />
<b>Taxonomies</b> beg the question: <i>"why the big word for 'categories'?"</i> which is what they are. The answer is that they allow lots of detail. Vocabularies can be part of a Taxonomy. Terms can be part of a Vocabulary. And Terms themselves can have multiple levels. Alongside some of the other bits of Drupal, taxonomies can be looked at on the User Interface (UI) screen linked under the Taxonomies module in the admin section. It looks like a grid at first site. Oh, Tagging by users is also allowed, with the possibility of a <i>"Folksonomy"</i> such as camel and camels being tagged as two different animals by different zoo-keepers. To reduce this, there is a suggestion and auto-complete function in the tag form.<b> Content Construction Kit</b> (now part of Drupal Core) can filter by taxonomy, but without the heirachies and free-tagging. <b>Views</b> can filter by tag. <b>Hierachical Selectors</b> is sometimes a helpful module here. I had never seen the stark version of a taxonomy item displayed before and should have a go - it's a bit like a blog post with links to items further down the hierachy.<br />
<br />
<b>Menus</b><i>: </i>two are created by default called <i>"primary"</i> and <i>"secondary"</i> - rather vague words because they're flexible; from the Menus user interface you can choose whether the secondary menu is a part of the primary menu or separate for example.<br />
<br />
<b>Panels</b> and <b>Context</b> are two different ways to achieving what you want on a certain part of a certain page. <b>Panels</b> is more of a package deal that you can use from the panels user interface or some rapidly evolving add-ons: the mini-panels alternative, the Paneliser add-on, and the Panopoly profile which is now part of Open Publish and one of the academic profiles. <b>Context</b> is lighter wieght and niftier.<br />
<br />
<br />
Talking of Panels, <a href="http://www.meetup.com/Learning-Drupal-Meetup/members/9503146/?a=ed1_11">Adrian Webb</a> presented much more than I understand in rather nice husky american accent and leaves this link to his presentation notes about the Panopoly theme.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://prezi.com/0l_derrjnmbx/introduction-to-panopoly/">http://prezi.com/0l_derrjnmbx/introduction-to-panopoly/</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-8209844604510836392012-10-17T14:06:00.009+01:002018-10-21T10:24:28.223+01:00Leslie Fishman articles<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<hr style="margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;" />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<hr style="margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;" />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Leslie Fishman articles - mainly economics</span></span></h2>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"...his political commitment wrecked any chances he had of reaching academic stardom in the United States once McCarthyism took root so he quit America to bring his family to Britain after winning a Ford Foundation fellowship to work in the economics department of Cambridge, where his mentor colleague was Professor Nicholas Kaldor. Later Fishman moved on to Keele University where he was appointed the first Chair in Economics. It was under his umbrella of inspiration..."</i><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Ten reasons for interest in this man who... </span></h4>
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>...<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">wrote the syllabus for my awful economics course mid recession, 84-7</a>.
For those who don't know, that's when a UK government policy closed a
fifth of manufacturing in five years leaving a quarter of the workforce
un-occupied and an eighth of them on the official dole figures. Fishman
pretended not to know. Why? That's a question that's relevant to the banking crisis or development studies or any other looming crisis.</li>
<li> ...is beyond taking offence at statement one. </li>
<li> ...started
teaching at the same time as Samuelson's 1948 textbook and a growth in
economics teaching; his instincts and working style grew-up with the
subject and the generation of cold-war US economists who are quoted in
economics textbooks </li>
<li> ...shared a funny name with a lot of other
people who have changed it to something less funny; the surname gets
rarer. As a consequence, someone like an academic who leaves a lot of
clues about their life through the post war years is possible to find on
search engines in a way that a Fisher or a Friedman probably wouldn't
be. Anyone who just picks-up a hobby of googling a subject and writing
what seems interesting will end-up with a lot of stuff to put together. </li>
<li> ...started
at university aged 16 alongside with free-thinking experiments at a US
university that are recorded in the odd debate topic, followed by 15
years avoiding a tightening grip of conformity on US university staff,
by the end of which they don't talk to students but lecture; they don't
allow political activity on campus, and they expect "recitations" of
conventional wisdom from students in order to compete for marks.
Anything else risks getting a report to the FBI or a summons to a Senate
Committee. Students <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_4.html">appear as bored as teachers and morale is low</a>. </li>
<li> ...seemed
pleasant enough with obvious talents and social concerns; he can't be
accused of being boring, right wing, and dishonest like Professer Piercy
of Swansea University for example. But he had the faults attributed to
such people - of talking out of his arse. On the same theme, he wasn't
an algebra junkie like the people who managed to get articles published
in the plump post-war years when ever-increasing numbers of american
professors competed for space in a few economics journals to boost their
careers. Talking of which, even american economics lecturers had
talants. There was pressure on them to atteract crowds of students who
could easily switch subjects. Fishman's style was quite engaging, with a
touch of irony and self-interruption. (6) The Fishman Bursary makes it
likely that Les Fishman will be searched-for online and remembered. I
hope the remembering will force Keele University students and staff to
learn from Fishman's mistakes and run a good course together, even
though his syllabus and the kind of constraints put on Keele syllabuses -
maybe even the kinds of students - have changed massively since he
retired. </li>
<li>Fishman junior seem pleasant enough with social
concerns and extraordinary patience for meetings and people. She wrote a
rather nice paper about encouraging firms like John Lewis as a policy
document for some obscure political group. She survived life as a
teacher in mundane colleges. She made the best of being very ill when
her father died by thinking of the bursary idea and writing obituaries
for him. (8) Strange to suffer an awful college course, then read <i>"his
political commitment wrecked any chances he had of reaching academic
stardom in the United States once McCarthyism took root so he quit
America to bring his family to Britain after winning a Ford Foundation
fellowship to work in the economics department of Cambridge, where his
mentor colleague was Professor Nicholas Kaldor. Later Fishman moved on
to Keele University where he was appointed the first Chair in Economics.
It was under his umbrella of inspiration..."</i> As someone who
suffered Fishman's umbrella of inspiration alongside much more qualified
published authors who had to teach his awful syllabus, I'd like to
write this note. </li>
<li>There was a peer-review system for university
courses; other economics courses were bad too. That's why Fishman's
awful course survived peer reviews. Short courses were rare in the UK
when Keele began offering them as an experiment with compulsory mixing
of science and arts and social science, so there was a bit of leeway
while external examiners got used to the idea, but on the other hand PPE
courses were common. The problems of a short economics course causing
cynecism about economists and/or over-confidence among MPs are the same
for a Keele short course as for the E-part of a PPE course. </li>
<li>There
is a Keele List of economics journal rankings, probably set-up in an
attempt to avoid hiring the next Fishman. So even if Keele doesn't
set-up a better economics course as a result of this, then other people
will find that this Keele list influences other university careers and
maybe department funding. </li>
<li>If there is a conclusion, it will say
that something about economics makes it traditionally a subject that
avoids the unspoken awkward subjects, like the Draft and the Vietnam
war, or the social insurance role of european governments, or mad
over-confident economic policies that close factories, all outside the
window on the bus journey home from the university</li>
</ol>
<br /></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The reason for so much quotation is that so much came to light - much more than expected. <a href="https://www.econbiz.de/Search/Results?lookfor=%22Fishman%2C+Leslie%22&type=Author&limit=50">https://www.econbiz.de/Search/Results?lookfor=%22Fishman%2C+Leslie%22&type=Author&limit=50</a> discovering a couple more writings. I discovered <a href="http://vm136.lib.berkeley.edu/BANC/collections/loyaltyoath/">http://vm136.lib.berkeley.edu/BANC/collections/loyaltyoath/</a> from which are linked <a href="http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb4c600607&chunk.id=div00244&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text%20alongside">http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb4c600607&chunk.id=div00244&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text alongside</a> <a href="http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb2489p1rm">http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb2489p1rm </a> <a href="http://phdtree.org/scholar/fishman-leslie/publication/">http://phdtree.org/scholar/fishman-leslie/publication/</a> later and <a href="http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31444229">http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=31444229</a></blockquote>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1938</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">"his</span></span></span> <span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">father, Isaac, had escaped from Siberia, where he had been exiled following his involvement as a Menshevik in the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_1905">1905 Russian revolution</a> ... he and his elder sister Grace grew up speaking Yiddish and being sent to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America">Socialist party</a> meetings on the tram"</span></span></span> <span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">- Obituary by Nina Fishman OAKLAND TRIBUNE, TUESDAY. APRIL 5th.: 1933 Ohio Student Wins U. C. Debate Medal BERKELEY, April 5. His outline of a plan by which "the learning we get would be the learning which we would set for ourselves." won' for Tames Keene. sophomore student from Alliance, O,, the annual Sproul medal debate last night "All emphasis on grades and competition. would be eliminated," he said. "Comprehenselve examinations would be instituted - instead, to be taken whenever the student feels that he is ready." Keene's talk on "My Ideal Plan For Academic Reorganization" took the unanimous decision of the judges over three other finalists, lis treat- day morning, .Was in. line with the college reorganization plan advoceated - by Pres. Robert , Gordon Sproul, donor of the debate medal, and that of Dr. Alexander Grant Ruth.ven, president, of the University of Michigan, who spoke similarly before a university meeting yesterday. <span style="color: red;">Other finalists Included</span> Miss Silvia Jacoby, senior, 939 Central Avenue, Alameda; Al Hamilton, junior, Sacramento, and <span style="color: red;">Leslie Fishman, freshman,</span> Berkeley. Judges of the debate were John F. Ross, Instructor in English;, Howard M. Smyth, instructor in history, and Clinton C, Conrad, lecturer in education.. The same page of the newspaper reads "Communist bag held for study".</span></span></span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1940</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: small;">...last of a series of faculty student symposiums... Two student speakers, Llewellin Evans and Leslie Fishman discussed United States foreign policy. Evans favoured intervention in foreign wars, while Fishman favoured strict isolation and concentration on domestic policy. <a href="http://berkley%20daily%20gazette%2C%20oct%204th/">Berkley Daily Gazette, October 4th, page 40</a>, headed "Conscription Plan Defended"</span></span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1941</span></b></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b>Graduated 1941<i>.</i> No writings on Jstor or Google Books.</b> <a href="http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/California/Isaac-Fishman_2mlkyf">http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/California/Isaac-Fishman_2mlkyf</a> A 1940 record might give a clue to the trace the family furniture factory run by Isaac and Leah Fishman which briefly employs Leslie after 1950. <b>1 year part-time lecturing experience in business administration at Berkley or Hass Business School Extension Program</b><i> Leslie’s family moved to California, where he graduated as an economist during the 1930s, when Franklin D Roosevelt was President, and joined the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA">American Communist Party</a>. He began teaching at Berkeley University in California, but was dismissed for his political views – despite having established a reputation as an outstanding, if unorthodox, academic economist. - <a href="http://www.tribunemagazine.org/2010/01/obituary-nina-fishman-1946-2010/">Obituary of Nina Fishman in Tribune</a></i> CV typed ten years later as part of a thesis available in Google Books snippit view <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAONYYCsAmy9dPnQQG6dfTDNTXEqWOEkp4tLTYov8X4qA0YzUzi684qXi0xjIppydmnFh_dNJLetxSTdvfVqGYivZ5s_M8FZcTr3g3AuG3BDnkVXEkJGdPGnf_FkWoCBw5CXjzB37xbkjM/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAONYYCsAmy9dPnQQG6dfTDNTXEqWOEkp4tLTYov8X4qA0YzUzi684qXi0xjIppydmnFh_dNJLetxSTdvfVqGYivZ5s_M8FZcTr3g3AuG3BDnkVXEkJGdPGnf_FkWoCBw5CXjzB37xbkjM/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1942-6</span></b><br />
<blockquote>
<i>"A talented economist on the US academic circuit, he joined the American Communist Party in 1939 and when America came into the war enlisted in the US army. He was involved in the D-Day landings but refused officer training to remain in the ranks as an outspoken Communist"</i>. - <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-nina-fishman-dynamic-labour-and-social-historian-best-known-for-her-work-on-trade-unions-1879739.html">Obituary of Nina Fishman in The Independent</a> <i>“Yes, I do recall Dad talking about this, although he was very reticent and I had to ask him specific questions before stories were forthcoming. It was in the final throes of the European theatre and his unit had a German unit pinned down in a factory, somewhere in Western Czechoslovakia territory (Sudetenland at that time I suppose…); Dad went and negotiated with the German commander (white flag and all) and communicated with a mixture of his academic German (learnt in order to be able to read Das Kapital) and his boyhood Yiddish! He did manage to get them to surrender, thus saving a firefight and associated fatalities/injuries, etc."</i> - <a href="https://marykayenglestein.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/s4/">Mary K Englestein</a>, about Les Fishman . <span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><i>"He landed in Normandy a few weeks after D-day, moved through to Germany, where he distinguished himself by persuading a company of soldiers to surrender in Yiddish, and later fought in Bavaria, Czechoslovakia and on the eastern front."</i> - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/mar/18/1">Obituary of Les Fishman by Nina Fishman in The Guardian</a></span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1948</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>After the war, he spent 18 months in the CIO research department in Washington before returning to Berkeley to teach in late 1948</i> - <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/mar/18/1">Obituary by Nina Fishman in The Guardian</a> Fishman accompanies <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Rieve">Emil Rieve</a>, of the CIO, who does the talking to United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Banking and Currency. (1948). <span style="font-style: italic;">National stabilization: Hearings before the Committee on Banking and Currency, United States Senate, Eightieth Congress, second session, on S. 1873 [and others] ...</span> Washington: U. S. Govt. Print. Off.. <a href="http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015028195041">http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015028195041</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdbZv6qvzetVD2yP9nj_JDDh7EDCf5wEzovKFNOUAL_7f3ciYgtgZqn7del3ZrSzBxlS7_PhJ7FyfGY5uqX-57CgbKQXgUZ9PFluYYsApmu5J6WMA80naEHjlRzVk1_HIKVSjgkgObvqGu/s1600/2296_2271_92_29.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdbZv6qvzetVD2yP9nj_JDDh7EDCf5wEzovKFNOUAL_7f3ciYgtgZqn7del3ZrSzBxlS7_PhJ7FyfGY5uqX-57CgbKQXgUZ9PFluYYsApmu5J6WMA80naEHjlRzVk1_HIKVSjgkgObvqGu/s320/2296_2271_92_29.jpg" width="241" /></a></div>
<span style="color: #4c1130;"><span style="color: black;"><a href="https://marykayenglestein.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/s4/">There's a description of <span style="color: #4c1130;">what people did for the CIO from Mary K Englstein's web page</span></a></span> The same blog says <i>"</i></span><span style="color: #4c1130;"><i>Ellie had the Almanac Singers record with Pete Seeger. This genre was new to me and I soaked it all in."</i> Fishman also writes replies to letters to another of his bosses "I had a letter back from this office signed by Leslie Fishman, research associate, which said, "I will be happy to meet you in open debate if you can guarantee an audience of more than one thousand. Hoping to hoar from you, I am very sincerely yours. . ." It's an unusual row about macro-economics, written in the Pampa Daily News of March 19th, 1948, page 8, but the free optical character recognition isn't good enough to make much out. The year that Fishman started as a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_States#Teaching_personnel">teaching assistant</a>, a new economics book came-out that would become standard for US college courses. Better still, there were two textbooks and the students only got to read one of them because the other was Canadian and thought to be Communist by american donors to universities.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #4c1130;">The first textbook is now available free online - <a archive.org="" elementsofeconom030865mbp="" href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009" https:="" stream="">The Elements of Economics</a> by Laurie Tarshis doesn't look scary. It begins by advocating economics as a way of solving real problems, and it mentions the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)">US 1937 Social Security tax</a> four times.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #4c1130;">Stamford University published an <a href="http://news.stanford.edu/pr/93/931011Arc3112.html">obituary</a> with something about it, similar to this Wikpedia post:</span> <span style="color: #4c1130;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_Revolution#Textbooks">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_Revolution#Textbooks</a> ...</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #4c1130;">.... being preceded by the 1947 <i>The Elements of Economics,</i> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorie_Tarshis" title="Lorie Tarshis">Lorie Tarshis</a>. Tarshis's book, the first American textbook to discuss Keynesian ideas, was initially widely adopted, but was subsequently attacked by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States" title="Conservatism in the United States">American conservatives</a> (as part of the <a class="mw-redirect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Red_Scare" title="Second Red Scare">Second Red Scare</a>, or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism" title="McCarthyism">McCarthyism</a>), donors to universities withheld donations, and subsequently the text was largely withdrawn.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-cl98_28-1"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_Revolution#cite_note-cl98-28">[28]</a></sup></span> <span style="color: #4c1130;">....</span><span style="color: #4c1130;">Samuelson's <i>Economics</i> was also subject to "conservative business pressuring" and accusations of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism" title="Communism">Communism</a>, but the attacks were less "virulen[t]" and <i>Economics</i> became established.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-29"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_Revolution#cite_note-29">[29]</a></sup> The success of Samuelson's book is attributed to various factors, notably Samuelson's dispassionate, scientific style, in contrast to Tarshis's more engaged style. Subsequent texts have followed Samuelson's style.</span> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #4c1130;">If the job was to help younger students understand their lectures, meet for revision, or compete for comformity-grades at recitations then he would have had to learn this chapter index almost by heart - <i>"absorb a textbook"</i> in Fishman's own words, as every future professor would do if working as a teaching assistant along the way. It's more important than Fishman's own work because it shows how economics could seem to be a subject for a few decades. People could sign-up at age 18 <span style="font-size: small;">or 16 in Fishman's case,</span> learn from one book with one author writing about one country, and have a tool kit for discussing the rest of life in a particularly economic, technical way that's meant not to be party-political. That was how it was seen from outside, but inside university departments, economics teachers taught mathmatics to hold-down their jobs and avoid political criticism. They published maths about anything - it didn't matter what; nobody read it. For their undergraduate teaching they taught little diagrams that didn't make sense, over and over, to be learned by heart.<br />
<br />
The idea of economics as a guide, like Samualson's textbook was unuasual in UK in 1984-7, with college courses repeating A-level in a more abstract way, textbooks repeating the basics that people expect to read like the Hicks ISLM model in a closed economy, but publishing other chapters which were more true and showed the basics to be wrong and - Oh: Professor Les Fishman was still teaching. The textbooks were also written to cover more than one country, so "Economics British Edition" by Begg (1984) doesn't have much about social insurance, even though it is the main thing that UK government does. Skip-down to the next bit of black type for more about Fishman PART ONE: BASIC ECONOMIC CONCEPT AND NATIONAL INCOME <i>Chapter 1.</i> INTRODUCTION <span style="font-size: x-small;">3 For Whom the Bell Tolls; Poverty Midst Plenty; Economic Description and Analysis; Economic Policy; Common Sense and Nonsense; Theory versus Practice; The Whole and the Part; Through the Looking Glass.</span> <i>Chapter 2.</i> CENTRAL PROBLEMS OF EVERY ECONOMIC SOCIETY. <span style="font-size: x-small;">12 A. Problems of Economic Organization 12 Boundaries and Limits to Economics; The Law of Scarcity. B. The Technological Chokes Open to Any Society 17 The Production-possibility or Transformation Curve: Increasing Costs; Economies of Mass Production: Decreasing Costs; The Famous Law of Diminishing Returns. C. The Underlying Population Basis of Any Economy: Past and Future Popu-lation Trends 24 The Malthus Theory of Population; America and Europe Face Depopulation; The Net Reproduction Rate. Summty 31</span> <i>Chapter 3.</i> FUNCTIONING OF A "MIXED" CAPITALISTIC ENTERPRISE SYSTEM <span style="font-size: x-small;">34 A. How A Free-enterprise System Solves the Basic Economic Problems . . 35 Not Chaos but Economic Order; The Price System; Imperfections of competition; Economic Role of Government. ix</span> <span style="font-size: x-small;">B. The Capitalistic Character of Modem Society Capital and Time; Fixed and Circulating Capital; Capital and Income; In-terest and the Real Net Productivity of Capital; Capital and Private Property. C. Exchange, Division of Labor, and Money Barter versus the Use of Money; Commodity Money, Paper Money, and Bank Money; Price Ratios and Money Prices; Money as a Medium of Exchange or as a Unit of Account; Money and Time * </span> <i>Chapter 4.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME 61 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Distribution of Income in the United States; The Inequality of Income; The Decline of Poverty; War Prosperity and Incomes; The So-called "Class Struggle"; Income from Work and from Property; The Render Class in a Decade of Falling Interest Rates; Incomes of Farmers; Wage Incomes from Work; The Position of Minorities. Summary 84</span> <i>Chapter 5.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME: EARNINGS IN DIFFERENT OCCUPATIONS 86 <span style="font-size: x-small;">The Labor Market's Basement; The Unskilled and Semiskilled Workers; The Skilled Craftsmen; The White-collar Class; Professional Incomes; Is College Worth While?; Economic Stratification and Opportunity. Summary 107</span> <i>Chapter 6.</i> BUSINESS ORGANIZATION AND INCOME 108 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. The Forms of Business Organization 108 The Population of Business Enterprises; Big, Small, and Infinitesimal Business; The Single Proprietorship; Business Growth and the Need for Short-term Capital; The Partnership; Causes of Business Growth; New Needs and Sources of Capital; Disadvantages of the Partnership Form. B. The Modern Corporation 118 Advantages and Disadvantages of the Corporate Form; How a Corporation Can Raise Capital; Bonds; Common Stocks; Preferred Stocks; Advantages of Different Securities; The Giant Corporation; The Evil of Monopoly; Divorce of Ownership and Control in the Large Corporation; Amplification of Control by the Pyramiding of Holding Companies; Leadership and Control of the Large Corporation; The Curse of Bigness? Summary 132</span> Appendix to Chapter 6: Elements of Accounting 134 <span style="font-size: x-small;">The Balance Sheet; The Statement of Profit and Loss; Depreciation; The Relation between the Income Statement and the Balance Sheet; Earnings, Dividends, and Purchasing Power; Summary of Elementary Accounting Relations; Reserves, Funds, and Intangible Assets; Intangible Assets; Good Will and Monopoly Power. Summary to Appendix 149</span> <i>Chapter 7.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLF. OF GOVERNMENT: EXPENDITURE, REGULATION, AND FINANCE I50 <span style="font-size: x-small;">The Growth of Government Expenditure; The Growth of Government Controls and Regulation; Federal, Local, and State Functions; Federal Expenditure; Efficiency and Waste in Government; Socialism and the New Deal; Government Transfer Expenditures; Three 'Ways to Finance Expenditure; Financing Govern-ment Expenditure by New Money; Financing Deficits by Loan Finance or Bor-rowing; War Finance; Fiscal Policy during Boom and Depression. Summary 166</span> <i>Chapter 8.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT: FEDERAL TAXATION AND LOCAL FINANCE 168 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Federal Taxation; Sales and Excise Taxes; Social Security, Payroll, and Employ-ment Taxes; Corporation Income Taxes; The Progressive Income Tax; State and }Aral Expenditures; State and Local Taxes; Property Tax; Highway User Taxes; Sales Taxes; Payroll and Business Taxes; Personal Income and Inheritance Taxes; Borrowing and Debt Repayment; Coordinating Different Levels of Government. Summary 184</span> <i>Chapter 9.</i> LABOR ORGANIZATION AND PROBLEMS 185 <span style="font-size: x-small;">History of the American Labor Movement; Craft versus Industrial Unions; Structure of the Labor Movement; Case Study of an AFL Carpenter; Case Study of 2 CIO Industrial Unionist; Case Study of a Labor Lawyer; The Case of the Philanthropic Capitalist; A Congressman's View of the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947; An Expert Looks at the Labor Problem. Summary 199</span> <i>Chapter 10.</i> PERSONAL FINANCE AND SOCIAL SECURITY . . . 201 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Budgetary Expenditure Patterns; Regional Differences in Cost of Living; Family Differences in the Cost of Living; The Backward Art of Spending Money; In-come Patterns of Saving and Consumption; Graphical Depiction of the Propensity to Consume and to Save; The Wartime Accumulation of Saving; How People Borrow Money; Government Bonds as a Form of Saving; Investing in Securities; Economics of Home Ownership; Buying Life Insurance; Term Insurance; Straight Life Insurance; Limited Payment Insurance; Endowment Plan; Social Security and Health; Growth of Social Security. Summary 223</span> <i>Chapter 11.</i> NATIONAL INCOME 225 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Two Views: Money Income or Money Output; First View of National Income: Cost and Earnings of Factors of Production; Transfer Payments; Real versus Money Income; Second View of National Income as Net National Product: Final Goods versus Double Counting of Intermediate Goods; Two Problems Introduced by Government; Capital Formation; Gross versus Net Investment; International Aspects of Income; Quantitative Recapitulation of National Income and Product Summary 243</span> PART TWO: DETERMINATION OF NATIONAL INCOME AND ITS FLUCTUATIONS <i>Chapter 12.</i> SAVING AND INVESTMENT 253 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. The Theory of Income Determination 253 The Cleavage between Saving and Investment; The Variability of Investment; The Community's Propensity to Consume and to Save Schedules; How In-come is Determined at Level Where Saving and Investment Schedules Inter-sect; Income Determination by Consumption and Investment; Arithmetical Demonstration of Income Determination. A Third Restatement; The Theory of Income Determination Restated. 8. Applications and Limitations of Income Analysis 265 The "Multiplier"; A Digression on the Identity between Measurable Saving and Measurable Investment; Induced Investment and the Paradox of Thrift; Deflationary and Inflatory Gaps; Taxation and Government Expenditure in Income Analysis; Qualifications to Saving and Investment Analysis. Summary 277</span> <i>Chapter 13.</i> PRICES, MONEY, AND INTEREST RATES 280 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. Prices Inflation, Deflation, and Redistribution of Income between Economic Classes; Effects of Changing Prices on Output and Employment; Galloping Inflation; Goals of Long-term Price Behavior. B. Money and Prices The Three Kinds of Money: Small Coins, Paper Currency, and Bank De-posits; Why Checking Deposits Are Considered to Be Money; The Meaning of the Value of Money as the Reciprocal of the Price Level; How the limita-tion of the Quantity of Money Preserves Its Value and Affects the Price 1evel; The Quantity Theory of Money; Inadequacies of the Quantity Theory : Prices Not Proportional to Total Spending; Inadequacies of the Quantity Theory: Total Spending Not Proportional to the Stock of Money; Relation of Money and Spending to Saving, Investment, and Prices; Conclusion to Money and Prices. C. Money and Interest Rates Three Demands for Money; Transaction Demand for Money; Precautionary Motive; Investment Demand for Money; Money as a Temporary Form of Holding Wealth; Short-term Investments as Near Substitutes for Cash; Money as a Long-term Asset; Money and the Determination of Interest Rates; His-tory of the Capital Markets since 1932; Money and Interest Rate during and after World War II. Summary 306</span> <i>Chapter 14.</i> FUNDAMENTALS OF THE BANKING SYSTEM AND DEPOSIT CREATION 310 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. Nature and Functioning of the Modern Banking System The Present Status of Banking; Creation of the Federal Reserve System; Banking as a Business; How Banks Developed Out of Goldsmith Establish-ments; Modem Fractional Reserve Banking; The Difference between a Bank and Any Corporation; Paradoxes of Fractional Reserve Banking; Making Banks Safe. B. The Creation of Bank Deposits Can Banks Really Create Money?; How Deposits Arc Crated; A "Monopoly Bank"; Simultaneous Expansion or Contraction by All Banks; Three Qualifications; Leakage into Hand-to-hand Circulation; Leakage into Bank Vault Cash; Possible Excess Reserves. Summary 333</span> <i>Chapter 15.</i> FEDERAL RESERVE AND CENTRAL BANK MONETARY POLICY 337 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Controlling the Business Cycle by Controlling the Quantity of Money; Brief Preview of How the Reserve Banks Can Affect the Supply of Money; The Federal Reserve Banks' Balance Sheet; Gold Certificates; "Reserve Bank Credit"; Federal Reserve "Open-market" Operations; Loan and Rediscount Policy; Changing Reserve Requirements as a Weapon of Monetary Control; The Problem of "Excess Reserves"; Summary of Reserve Banks' Control over Money; The Pyramid of Credit; War Finance and the Banks; The Inadequacies of Monetary Control of the Business Cycle; Public Debt Management and Monetary Control. Summary 355</span> B. The Public Debt and Postwar Fiscal Policy 424 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Retiring Nonbank Debt; Retiring Bank Debt; The Debt and the Propensity to Consume; Debt Retirement and Interest; The Public Debt and Its Limita-tions; External versus Internal Debt; Borrowing and Shining Economic Bur-dens through Tune; "We All Owe It to Ourselves"; Debt Management and Monetary Policy; The True Indirect Burden of Interest Charges; The Quantitative Problem of the Debt; Useful versus Wasteful Fiscal Policy; A Fundamental Difficulty with full Employment; The Employment Act of 1946 Summary 437 Appendix to Chapter IS: Four Quantitative Paths to Full Employment . 440 Model I: Private Enterprise, Full Employment; Model II: Deficit-spending Path to Full Employment; Model III: Tax-reduction Path to Full Employ-ment; Model IV: Balanced-budget Path to Full Employment</span>. PART THREE: THE COMPOSITION AND PRICING OF NATIONAL OUTPUT <i>Chapter 19.</i> DETERMINATION OF PRICE BY SUPPLY AND DEMAND 447 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. Determination of Market Price 447 The Demand Schedule and the Demand Curve; Elastic and Inelastic Demands; The Supply Schedule; Equilibrium of Supply and Demand. B. Applications of Supply and Demand 457 Effects of Changes in Supply or Demand; A common Fallacy; Is the Law of Supply and Demand Immutable? Prices Fixed by Law. Summary 466 Appendix to Chapter 19: Questions and Problems on Supply and Demand 469 Case I : Constant Cost; Case 2: Increasing Costs and Diminishing Returns; Case 3: Completely Inelastic Supply and Economic Rent; Case 4: A Backward Rising Supply Curve; Case 5: A Possible Exception: Decreasing Cost; Case 6. Shifts in Supply.</span> <i>Chapter 20.</i> THE THEORY OF CONSUMPTION AND DEMAND . . 477 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Theory of Consumer's Choice; Price and Income Changes in Demand; Cross Relations of Demand; Response of Quantity to Own Price; A Fundamental Law of Diminishing Substitution; The Paradox of Value; Consumer's Surplus. Summary 485 Appendix to Chapter 20: Geometrical Analysis of Consumer Equilibrium 487</span> <i>Chapter 21.</i> COST AND THE EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM UNDER PERFECT AND IMPERFECT COMPETITION 491 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. The Maximum Profit Equilibrium Position within the Firm 491 Monopolistic Competition; The Finn's Demand under Perfect and Monopolist Competition; Price, Quantity, and Total Revenue; Total and Marginal Costs; Fixed Costs; Variable Costs; Total Cost; Average Cost: Marginal Cost; Marginal Revenue and Price; Maximizing Profits; Graphical Depiction of Firm's Optimum Position. B. Applications of the Profit Maximizing Principles to Perfect Competition and Patterns of Monopolistic Competition Price and Supply under Perfect Competition; Decreasing Costs and the Break-down of Perfect Competition; Minimizing Losses and Deciding When to Shur Down; Firm and Industry; Price and Cost under Monopolistic Competi-tion; Illustrative Patterns of Price; Chronically Overcrowded Sick Industries; The Case of Few Sellers of Identical Products; Monopolies Maintained by Constant Research and Advertising; Publicly Regulated Monopolies. 503 Sumnury 516</span> <i>Chapter 22.</i> PRODUCTION EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM AND THE PROBLEM OF DISTRIBUTION 518 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. Production Equilibrium of the Firm 519 Final Production Equilibrium: Direct Approach; The Indirect Approach to the Production Equilibrium; The "Production Function"; The Law of Di-minishing Returns Once Again; Combining Inputs Optimally in Order to Produce a Given Output; Final Production Equilibrium: indirect Approach. B. The Marginal Productivity Theory and the "Problem of Distribution" . . 526 Checkal Theories of Rent; The So-called "Marginal Productivity Theory of Distribution"; Can Trade-unions Raise Wages? Keeping Down the Total Number of Laborers; Pushing Up Money Wages in Particular Occupations. Summary 532 Appendix to Chapter 22: Graphical Depiction of Production Equilibrium 534</span> <i>Chapter 23.</i> INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND THE THEORY OF COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE 558 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Diversity of Conditions between Regions or Countries: A Simple Case: Europe and America; America without Trade; Europe without Trade; The Opening Up of Trade; Exact Determination of the Final Price Ratio. Summary Appendix to Chapter 23. Some Qualifications to the Discussion of Comparative Advantage Many Commodities and Countries; Increasing Costs; International Commodity Movements as a Partial Substitute for Labor and Factor Movements; Decreasing Costs and International Trade; Differences in Tastes or Demand as a Reason for Trade; Transportation Costs.</span> <i>Chapter 24.</i> THE ECONOMICS OF TARIFF PROTECTION AND FREE TRADE 559 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Noneconomic Goals; Grossly Fallacious Arguments for Tariff; Keeping Money in the Country; A Tariff for Higher Money Wages; Tariffs for Special-interest Groups; Some Less Obvious Fallacies; A Tariff for Revenue; Tariffs and the Home Market; Competition from Chap Foreign Labor; A Tariff for Retaliation; The "Scientific" Tariff; Arguments for Protection under Dynamic Conditions; Tariffs and Unemployment; Tariffs for "Infant Industries"; The "Young Economy" Argument. Summary 569</span> <i>Chapter 25.</i> THE DYNAMICS OF SPECULATION AND RISK 570 <span style="font-size: x-small;">Speculation and Price Behavior over Time; The Great Stock-market Crash; Gambling and Diminishing Utility; Economics of Insurance; What Can be in-sured?; Joint Public and Private Responsibilities. Summary 582</span> <i>Chapter 26.</i> SOCIAL MOVEMENTS AND ECONOMIC WELFARE. 584 <span style="font-size: x-small;">A. Fascism, Communism, and Socialism 584 The Crisis-of Capitalism; A Bouquet of Isms; Fascism; Marxian Communism and Soviet Russia; Socialism; Political Freedom and Economic Control. B. The Use of An Over-all Pricing System under Socialism and Capitalism . 590 Review of Free Competitive Pricing; The Concept of General Equilibrium; Pricing in a Socialist State: Consumption Goods Prices; The Distribution of In-come; Pricing of Nonhuman Productive Resources; The Example of Land Rent; The Role of the Interest Rate in a Socialist State; Wage Rates and Incentive Pricing; Su ry of Socialist Pricing; Welfare Economics in a Free-enterprise Economy. Summary 603</span> <i>Chapter 27.</i> EPILOGUE 606 Index 609 SUGGESTED OUTLINE FOR A ONE-SEMESTER COURSE <i>Chapter 1.</i> INTRODUCTION <i>Chapter 2.</i> THE CENTRAL PROBLEMS OF EVERY ECONOMIC SOCIETY A. Problems of Economic Organization B. The Technological Choices Open to Any Society C. The Underlying Population Basis of Any Economy: Past and Future Population Trends <i>Chapter 3.</i> FUNCTIONING OF A "MIXED" CAPITALISTIC ENTERPRISE SYSTEM A. How a Free Enterprise System Solves the Basic Economic Problems B. The Capitalistic Character of Modern Society C. Exchange, Division of Labor, and Money <i>Chapter 4.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME <i>Chapter 5.</i> INDIVIDUAL AND FAMILY INCOME, CONTINUED: EARNINGS IN DIFFERENT OCCUPATIONS <i>Chapter 6.</i> BUSINESS ORGANIZATION AND INCOME A. The Forms of Business Organization B. The Modern Corporation Appendix: Elements of Accounting: <i>Chapter 19.</i> DETERMINATION OF PRICE BY SUPPLY AND DEMAND A. Determination of Market Price B. Applications of Supply and Demand <i>Chapter 21.</i> COST AND EQUILIBRIUM OF THE FIRM UNDER PERFECT AND IMPERFECT COMPETITION A. The Maximum Profit Equilibrium Position within the Firm B. Applications of the Profit Maximizing Principles to Perfect Competition and Pat-terns of Monopolistic Competition. <i>Chapter 7.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT: EXPENDITURE, REGULATION, AND FINANCE <i>Chapter 8.</i> THE ECONOMIC ROLE OF GOVERNMENT, CONTINUED: FEDERAL TAXATION AND LOCAL FINANCE <i>Chapter 9.</i> LABOR ORGANIZATION AND PROBLEMS Chapter 10. PERSONAL FINANCE AND SOCIAL SECURITY <i>Chapter 11.</i> NATIONAL INCOME <i>Chapter 12.</i> SAVING AND INVESTMENT A. The Theory of Income Determination B. Applications and Limitations of Income Analysis <i>Chapter 13.</i> PRICES, MONEY, AND INTEREST RATES A. Prices B. Money and Prices C. Money and Interest Rates <i>Chapter 14.</i> FUNDAMENTALS OF THE BANKING SYSTEM AND DEPOSIT CREATION A. Nature and Functioning of the Modern Banking System B. The Creation of Bank Deposits Chapter 15. FEDERAL RESERVE AND CENTRAL BANK MONETARY POLICY (OPTIONAL) <i>Chapter 16.</i> INTERNATIONAL FINANCE AND DOMESTIC EMPLOYMENT A. International Trade and Capital Movements B. Postwar International Trade and Full Employment <i>Chapter 18.</i> FISCAL POLICY AND FULL EMPLOYMENT WITHOUT IN FLATION A. Short-run and Long-run Fiscal Policy B. The Public Debt and Postwar Fiscal Policy.</span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1950</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div align="left">
<h1>
Oath assailed at protest rally: Faculty position cheered</h1>
By Jeannie Hamilton - Issue No. 44, April 11, 1950: news article, front page<br />
<div class="noindent">
The sunlit Greek Theatre resounded with cheers and applause yesterday as four members of the faculty voiced their opposition to the Regents' loyalty oath and <i>"sign or resign"</i> ultimatum. The ASUC protest meeting was frequently interrupted by the estimated 4,500 students, who listened attentively to the speakers' explanations of their stands in the oath controversy. The most prolonged accolade was given a faculty member who said he had not signed the oath. When Arthur H. Brodeur, professor of English and German philology, stated, <i>"I will never sign the special oath under any circumstances,"</i> the audience rose and applauded for several minutes. Brodeur, in presenting the views of the non-signers, was interrupted again when he said he had voted against the second resolution passed by the Academic senate. (The resolution states the senate's agreement with the University's anti-Communist employment policy.)</div>
<div class="padded">
However, Brodeur stated that he would abide by the majority decision and added, <i>"I shall do all in my power to support the 'committee of seven.'"</i> In stating his opposition to the oath, Brodeur said, <i>"We must believe in the freedom of the human mind and spirit . . . no man can do good work when he is under suspicion; a man is better unemployed if he is not trusted . . ."</i> He added that no man <i>"can be a faithful member of the (academic) profession if he is working under the threat of coercion--let there be no doubt that there is coercion behind the Regents' actions."</i> Brodeur then praised President Robert Gordon Sproul and stated that his presidency has been <i>"the period of greatest achievement and understanding."</i> He added, <i>"If at any time in this struggle President Sproul should be forced to leave the University, I shall follow him at once."</i> Joel H. Hildebrand, vice chairman of the senate, also commended President Sproul and added that the president recognizes and regrets the mistake he made by introducing the special oath last spring. Hildebrand, dean of the college of chemistry, said, <i>"No opportunity will be lost by the Regents to blame President Sproul."</i> Hildebrand said that recent events seem to indicate that <i>"it is an offense to criticize the Regents' policy. It looks as if docility will be a criteria for professors."</i> He also asserted that Regent John Francis Neylan had repudiated an agreement with the faculty. The stand taken by the Non-Senate Academic Employes on the oath and ultimatum was explained by Leslie Fishman, lecturer in business administration, whose speech was also punctuated by loud applause. Fishman stated that many of the faculty members who signed the oath <i>"did so last year under the pressure of the October 1 deadline in the belief that checks and contracts would be withheld . . . this impression was not dispelled until after the deadline." "If the ultimatum stands . . . the senate as a governing body will have been completely abolished . . . the University will be fair game for any political hack,"</i> Fishman added. He then presented the NSAE proposal: a compact made by both signers and non-signers that they would withdraw their services unless the Regents' oath and ultimatum are rescinded. <i>"To do this, we need every one of you--are you with us?"</i> and to chorus of <i>"Yes!"</i> Fishman returned to his seat. The views of the senate <i>"committee of seven,"</i> which has been leading the oath opposition, were presented by Morrough P. O'Brien, dean of the college of engineering. O'Brien said the faculty <i>"is for an oath--the California standard oath of office, which is all-inclusive."</i> The Regents' Feb. 24 ultimatum was characterized by O'Brien as an action which would eliminate the opportunity for <i>"a fair and impartial hearing."</i> He said that <i>"men who stand on principle will not be reappointed . . . action will be taken without hearings."</i> O'Brien stated that the committee believes the University anti-Communist policy can be better implemented by the senate's proposed oath substitution rather than by the loyalty oath itself. He was booed by a small segment of the audience when he said the controversy with the Regents is <i>"only over the means to a common end."</i> After the ASUC meeting another protest meeting, featuring anti-oath musical parodies, was held at Sather Gate by the United Action Committee for Academic Freedom; the meeting lasted until 3:15 p.m. ---------------------------<br />
<div align="left">
<h1>
'Will never sign': 4,500 Berkeley students cheer oath-defying faculty speakers</h1>
(<a href="http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb387004x8">The Daily Bruin</a> Issue No. [46], April 17, 1950: news article, p.7)<br />
<div class="noindent">
An estimated 4500 University of California students cheered and applauded four faculty spokesmen in the ASUC protest meeting in the Berkeley Greek theater last Monday as the speakers outlined their opposition to the Regents' special loyalty oath and the "sign or resign" ultimatum, reported the Daily Californian.</div>
<div class="padded">
Frequently interrupting the speakers with vociferous demonstrations of support, the students went so far as to rise to their feet and applaud for several minutes when English professor Dr. Arthur H. Brodeur defiantly asserted: "I will never sign the special oath under any circumstances."Other speakers were Dr. Joel H. Hildebrand, vice chairman of the northern section of the Academic Senate; Dr. Morrough P. O'Brien, dean of the College of Engineering and member of UC's faculty steering committee; and Leslie Fishman, lecturer in business administration and spokesman for the Non-Senate Academic Employees.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Not Big Enough</h4>
<div class="noindent">
Hildebrand, denouncing the Regents for putting pressure on the faculty to sign the oath, said: <i>"The University community is evidently not big enough for both groups (the faculty and the Regents). Will you (the students) and your parents be satisfied if the professors are the ones to go?"</i> The students roared <i>"No."</i></div>
<div class="padded">
Explaining the stand taken by the Non-senate group, Fishman said many faculty members who signed the oath <i>"did so last year under the pressure of the October 1 deadline in the belief that checks and contracts would be withheld . . . this impression was not dispelled until after the deadline."</i> <i>"If the ultimatum stands . . . the Senate as a governing body will have been completely abolished,"</i> he added.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Withdraw Services</h4>
<div class="padded">
Concluding, Fishman presented a proposal of the NSAE that a compact be made by both signers and non-signers that they withdraw their services unless the Regents rescind the oath and "ultimatum." <i>"To do this, we need every one of you--are you with us?"</i> he asked the students. <i>"Yes,"</i> they roared back.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
No Mass Movement</h4>
<div class="padded">
But in a press conference that same day faculty spokesman Dr. John D. Hicks, chairman of the Berkeley steering committee, declared:</div>
<div class="noindent">
<i>"We are proceeding just as cautiously and conservatively as possible . . . there will be no mass movement--resignations or otherwise."</i></div>
<div class="padded">
He said no action was <i>"contemplated until after the final word of the Regents,"</i> and added that the legal committee was prepared to go to court to protect any faculty member, <i>"not a Communist,"</i> who may be discharged for failure to sign the oath. Meanwhile, the proposed one day general strike of students and teachers at the Berkeley campus failed to materialize. The plan was proposed by the NSAE and endorsed by the United Action Committee for Academic Freedom, a group comprising many student organizations on the northern campus, and the Berkeley Graduate Students assn.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Strike Plans</h4>
<div class="padded">
Plans for a prolonged general strike are now being considered by the NSAE steering committee. First rebuff to the plans came from Hicks, who said: <i>"We would not contemplate participating in that sort of work cessation. The faculty feels committed to fulfill its contractual obligations, and even more, its moral and professional responsibilities."</i> Last Tuesday the ASUC's executive committee passed two resolutions on the loyalty oath issue.</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Competence</h4>
<div class="noindent">
The first called for the committee to <i>"go on record as opposing any political oath"</i> and <i>"stating that competence and performance alone shall be the criteria for hiring and firing teachers."</i></div>
Following this, they passed another resolution opposing the hiring of members of <i>"any party which advocates overthrow of the government by unconstitutional means"</i> and supporting the Senate's resolution against employment of Communists.<br />
<div class="padded">
Meanwhile, Hicks said a poll was being taken of Academic Senate members in order to ascertain the number of signees, non-signees, and the member who signed "equivalent affirmations" of non-Communist affiliations, the results to be used, he said, for statistical purposes only. <a href="https://www.blogger.com/goog_1556583121"></a> <a href="http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb387004x8;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00219&toc.depth=1&toc.id=div00219&brand=calisphere&query=having%20prof%20trouble">http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb387004x8;NAAN=13030&doc.view=frames&chunk.id=div00219&toc.depth=1&toc.id=div00219&brand=calisphere&query=having%20prof%20trouble</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1950-2</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>He was blacklisted because of his refusal to sign a loyalty oath. He worked briefly as a docker... "- one of the obituaries of Leslie or daughter Nina:</i><i><br />"her mother Ellie who had been a labour organiser in the militant longshoreman’s union in the San Francisco area during World War II and who continued to agitate in one way or other for the rest of her life".- <a href="http://www.ninafishman.org/In-Memoriam/alan-green">reminiscence</a> about the daughter, Nina Fishman</i></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1952-5</span></b><br />
<blockquote>
<i>...then joined my aunt</i> [Leah Fishman] <i>for two years as an accountant at <a href="http://www.mocavo.com/Isaac-Fishman-California-Death-Record-Index-1940-1997/00544918775787262437">his father</a>'s furniture manufacturing firm in Los Angeles, and became active in the American Civil Liberties Union. I remember asking him in 1953 whether he was in the Communist party. His reply silenced me: "I don't think you have the right to ask me that question. It is my right under the Bill of Rights to freedom of association ..."</i> <i>- <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/mar/18/1">Obituary by Nina Fishman</a>, aged 12 in 1953.</i> For five years, Fishman had to face the same realities that most of his Keele graduates would suffer thirty years later. The Open University program called <i>The Catch</i> shows a graduate 20-odd trying to do a job on a deep sea trawler, and ends with a note that he got a job at a chrome plating factory. Fishman appears unaffected by the experience. Once he was back on his teaching career, he forgot it. He didn't mention the experience of dock work to his students, or his father's factory, and preferred to present himself as the professor in tweeds who learned everything in life out of journals. The only givaway, apart from his willingness to talk out of his arse, was a kind of earthiness that attaches itself to people with a lot of life experience</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1955</span></b><br />
<dl class="clear"><dd><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgC_PEc-vGnxxG-_DYjmZAssTqZdCT-ZaQc6Ugh10lHzZAN-GF5qoNwMItK2CaHrOHTgT31mj4KEzSDu4oOVix2NU332H2K-uigAOrT-0cqyJGVwYVDX61FGfyo4EQTIB1Z2_pnFR-0dxLG/s1600/temp.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgC_PEc-vGnxxG-_DYjmZAssTqZdCT-ZaQc6Ugh10lHzZAN-GF5qoNwMItK2CaHrOHTgT31mj4KEzSDu4oOVix2NU332H2K-uigAOrT-0cqyJGVwYVDX61FGfyo4EQTIB1Z2_pnFR-0dxLG/s200/temp.jpg" width="155" /></a></div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
State Fair Doors Swing Open, 34 New Teachers Begin ISC Duties, Culver City Asks Probe.</h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
A list of new 30 new staff at ISC invited to a lunch, includes Leslie Fishman, instructor in business administration and economics. The same page quotes a national story about Culver City near Los Angeles requesting FBI and Senate investigation into communist activities, and summer fair where photographs of prize-winning animals were taken, but not published by the newspaper. <a href="https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/15878856/" itemprop="publisher" title="Learn more about this publication">Idaho State Journal</a> Pocatello, Idaho. Tuesday, September 13, 1955. Page 3, from free optical character recognition https://www.newspapers.com/image/15862295/?terms=Leslie%2BFishman. There was also a remarkably small foam rubber sofa available for $189.88. The awkward headline and attribution of "Culver asks probe" suggest that someone at the top of the newspaper hierarchy asked for the article to be written and that the people who wrote it weren't so keen.</div>
</dd> </dl>
<ul style="text-align: left;"></ul>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1957</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;">Idaho State Jounal, March 3rd, page 11 - no optical character text available Leslie Fishman will run a course of sixteen two-hour sessions which will cover the history of the american labor movement as well as the functioning of the market. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_A._Wallace">This is the college where Henry A Wallace learned stats. by borrowing machines and publishing results of farming surveys in the farming magazine his parents owned.</a> Idaho State Journal, March 28th - no optical character text available Leslie Fishman ... extension class for members</span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KepIAQAAMAAJ">Theories of the American Labor Movement</a></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KepIAQAAMAAJ">thesis available in snippet view on Google Books</a>, including a CV on two snippets and scraps of text. Google Books have a word cloud of the kinds of phrases that crop-up.</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjt6-HyrDC3W9msVPaKqwY5yK39bP8s3mqq1ZoHZ4B-syDfH4_Yoy6pzekT24OTdx2MJ_Qxpxo34Ey9uxlKZ3eyjWtX-XPyI0qISRCd04SYswNfUtv4cxDUVsMJEDp-uGIMDJybobl16DYH/s1600/temp.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjt6-HyrDC3W9msVPaKqwY5yK39bP8s3mqq1ZoHZ4B-syDfH4_Yoy6pzekT24OTdx2MJ_Qxpxo34Ey9uxlKZ3eyjWtX-XPyI0qISRCd04SYswNfUtv4cxDUVsMJEDp-uGIMDJybobl16DYH/s1600/temp.jpg" /></a></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;">Idaho State College <a href="http://www.amstat.org/about/statisticiansinhistory/index.cfm?fuseaction=paperinfo&PaperID=4">had a tabulating machine</a>; it was one of the first colleges ever to lease these IBM machines, and hosted international conferences of statisticians who tried to expand their statistical uses. Prices at cow fairs, Iowa land values, and every number the lab could measure was crunched through the tabulators. One of the early experimenters was to become President Woodrow Wilson, or someone like that; I'm not sure. Other universities followed, and Boulder, Colorado established a stats lab in 1957, hiring </span>J.N. Srivastava, a mathmetician, from Idaho.</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1958</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span class="st"><i>D. F. Dowd</i> (ed.),</span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span class="st"><i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorstein_Veblen">Thorstein Veblen</a>: A Critical Reappraisal</i> (Ithaca NY, <i>1958</i>),</span></h3>
<span class="st">subtitled</span> <span class="st"><i>lectures and essays commemorating the hundredth anniversary of Veblen's birth</i>. Fishman's chapter was called</span><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
Veblen, Hoxie, and American labor</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
..............................................</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
LESLIE FISHMAN 12<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
Veblen, Hoxie, and American Labor</h4>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
It is never easy to understand the work of great economists during their own lifetimes; it is even more difficult both to understand and evaluate their theories after they have died. The late Professor Leo nogin has suggested that we attempt this in two steps: first, that we try to grasp fully the meaning of the man's writings through the eyes of the theorist himself, that is, in terms of the problem as the theorist himself posed it; and second, that we examine, through our own eyes, so to speak, the validity of his theory. But how can an economic theory's validity be tested? We are not permitted controlled experiments. Human history is an ever changing pattern that appears to have no beginning and no end. What is important today may be in-significant tomorrow. What appears as a prime moving force to one person may appear as an insignificant and unusual disturbance to another. Does this mean that no firm estimate of a theory's validity is possible? Not at all. With the benefit of hindsight, we can attempt to under-stand fully Veblen's economic theory—in terms of the problem he set for himself. Then we can take the next step. We can ask whether Veblen foresaw the major historical forces at work, so as to make the problems he posed both significant and operationally solvable; that is, were his problems defined in terms of historically significant variables, and were these variables changing in the way he described them? In Veblen's case, these criteria of validity are easily affirmed—he was so right so many times. The problem of his generation, and of</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
221</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
ours, remains that of adjusting pecuniary institutions to an industrial world which is astride a matter-of-fact science that is changing technology at an ever increasing pace. The twin horses of science and technology are galloping away with our chariot—even into the upper reaches of the ionosphere and space; but our socioeconomic and political institutions remain earth-bound to the extreme. Moreover, growing disparity between scientific progress and social institutions is taking place, according to Veblen, against a backdrop of national dynastic states and empires, and inherited property relationships of use and wont. In what specific ills does this over-all and all-pervasive conflict result? A myriad of problems, the most important of which are war, poverty, depressions, and, most significant of all, the difficulties attending the rate of progress of science and technology, and side effects of that progress. But even when a theorist's problem is valid, the big question still remains unanswered: Is the solution realizable? Will the institutions that the theorist believes to be abnormal actually undergo change in the manner predicted by the theory? Will these changes bring about the desired results—without important side effects? This makes economic theory stand muster against the flow and pattern of history. This makes economics a science of history; a science of change, of development. It makes economics evolutionary, to use the term Veblen and Hoxie insisted upon. What were the abnormal institutions for Veblen? The pecuniary institutions of natural rights and property. How were these going to be changed and made consistent with the industrial technology of science and the machine? By those whose outlook and psychology was molded by the industrial discipline—the workers, the engineers, the scientists. What was going to be the operative force at work? It is at this point that the chain of Veblen's theory broke. And it is here that Robert Franklin Hoxie was to step in. Veblen defined the problem. Veblen supplied the over-all framework. Veblen delineated the major historical forces. But Veblen was most uncertain about the key step—the operative force that would impel those under the industrial discipline to change the pecuniary institutions. Interestingly enough, this is precisely Veblen's criticism of Marx's schema. As Veblen himself described it, "It is nowhere pointed out what is the operative force at work in the process." By process, Veblen</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
referred to the process of history. The Marxist deterministic class struggle was far too oversimplified for Veblen to accept. Moreover, the key motive force—impoverishment of the working class, whether absolute or relative—certainly did not apply, according to Veblen. In his very first publication Veblen underlined this basic weakness in the Marxian case:</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote>
The system of industrial competition, based on private property, has brought about .. . the most rapid advance in average wealth and industrial efficiency that the world has seen. . . . The result . . . has been to increase greatly the creature comforts within the reach of the average human being.1</blockquote>
Veblen attempted to fill this crucial void in his own theory in several different ways. In his earliest work he stressed the role of emulation in goading those under the industrial discipline to action. The imitative consumption patterns of our society, with the enormous element of competition, can lead to increased dissatisfaction as living standards rise. Thus, as creature comforts are met, increased rivalry with one another can lead to increased displeasure and disaffection, particularly if the fruits of progress and production are inequitably distributed. Dorfman believes that by the time Veblen wrote <i>The Theory of Business Enterprise</i> this emulation concept gave way to a more orthodox view—the social psychology engendered by the industrial discipline gives rise to attitudes, on the part primarily of industrial workers, that will impel them to challenge existing pecuniary institutions. And challenge them they will. Business unionism is only the outward surface expression of the trade-union movement. Veblen wrote that beneath the surface trade unions directly attack the pecuniary institutions:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"The classes who move in trade-unions are, how-ever crudely and blindly, endeavouring, under the compulsion of the machine process, to construct an institutional scheme on the lines imposed by the new exigencies given by the machine process." 2</blockquote>
Veblen described unions that held these views as the "maturest expressions" of trade unionism. An even more laudatory phrase was reserved for the individuals who took this position; Veblen called them "the more wide-awake body of unionist workmen." "Some Neglected Points in the Theory of Socialism," Annals of the American Academy, 11 (1891), p. 348. "Theory of Business Enterprise (New York: Scribner, 1904), p. 336.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Although Veblen did not spell out in specifics the exact manner in which those subject to the industrial discipline arrive at their beliefs, the general forces at work are clear. On the production line, in the scientific laboratory, in front of the engineering drafting boards, those employed in industry work with the materials of the real, matter-of-fact world and their outlook and opinions are shaped accordingly. In a mine thousands of feet below the surface, each man is evaluated by the way he handles his tools and the machinery, how he works with his fellow miners, how he gets the ore out. His "net worth," his credit rating, or the shrewdness with which he purchases real estate—all these count for very little in a mine shaft. Similarly, a scientist conditioned by the laboratory and perhaps interested in the state of the economy, is more likely to turn to an objective measure of total production than to the elusive profit and loss statements of business. Or take the case of an engineer planning a new suburban housing development. Would he be most concerned about the extent and placement of a new shopping centre, to maximise the profit return of the project, or would he be more inclined to deal in terms of the needs of the new dwellers and the physical characteristics of the terrain? Eugene O'Neill in his play The Hairy Ape focused on this contrast—the life, the values, the outlook of a stoker in the hold of a ship compared with the values of the first-class passengers on deck. These represent the two employments Veblen refers to in the phrases, "the industrial discipline" and "the pecuniary discipline." The first two decades of the twentieth century in America saw the machine revolutionising production, transportation, and distribution and the corporate form of business triumphant across the land. Trade-union membership grew slowly and declined rapidly. The Socialist party reached its peak in membership and votes and then was torn to shreds by factionalism and the rising patriotic fervour attendant on World War I. Reform liberalism also reached its zenith, and under Wilson's leadership a series of basic reforms were passed in the varied fields of the tariff, the banking system, trade unions, trusts and trade, farming, suffrage, and the income tax. The industrial giant took shape, but Veblen's vision of those shaped under the industrial discipline be-came more blurred and somewhat obscure. He still held out the hope that "among workmen . . . uncritical habitual faith in this institutional scheme is beginning to crumble." 8 But he was forced to admit that with this crumbling "no constructive deviation from the received principles" is to be found. By 1917 Veblen still anticipated the awakening of the common man —a realization that "these rights of ownership and investment uniformly work to his material detriment." Veblen predicted that, if ever this day comes, the common man will not trifle with details. Rather, it will be "something in the nature of the stand once taken by recalcitrant Englishmen in protest against the irresponsible rule of the Stuart sovereign." 4 The post–World War I picture was apparently even more depressing. By 1923 Veblen wrote that the American workingmen "are still tangled in personalities, not realising that their common adversary is a state of affairs rather than a conspiracy of sinners." 5 In this brief recital of several passages of Veblen's views on American labour there is great danger of oversimplification and distortion. We should not think that this brilliant and incisive mind did not at any time appreciate the problems and difficulties that confronted American labour. He was only too well aware of them. His studies of the Industrial Workers of the World during World War I are classic, among the best work done on American labour. His generalisations about the nature of business unionism show how painfully aware he was of the limitations of American unions. His was a case of too much knowledge, rather than not enough. This caused him to retreat in later years to the engineers and scientists for hope of an operative force in American society along the lines of his earlier analysis. Our primary concern, however, is with American labour as the potential operative force in Veblen's schema—operative force, not in the sense of blind historical necessity moving through an un-reacting mass, but quite the reverse. Veblen's operative force results from human beings reacting with and through their environment—reacting at all levels of consciousness and concern. But they are reacting within the historical milieu dominated by an industrial society governed by pecuniary institutions. Just who is going to "disestablish" these pecuniary Instinct of Workmanship (New York: Macmillan, 1914), p. 343. `The Nature of Peace (New York: Macmillan, 1917), p. 364. Absentee Ownership (New York: Huebsch, 1923), p. 295.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
institutions, as Veblen liked to refer to the process, remained an unanswered question. Robert Franklin Hoxie attempted to find the answer. In many ways Hoxie was the least likely candidate for this important role. He came from a farm background. His early training in economics emphasised conventional theory. Economic theory, money and banking, government finance were the fields that attracted and challenged young Hoxie. His early articles in these branches of economics are significant works in their own right. Around the turn of the century it became clear that the Veblen outlook took possession of Hoxie, and he would never again be free of it. He could no longer view American society as a group of individuals, or the American economy as a group of homogeneous households and businesses. Everywhere he turned, Veblen's basic distinction between the industrial and pecuniary employments haunted him. A market place was no longer the arena where buyers and sellers meet and come to terms. Now it became another place where the basic cleavage in society emerged, where those subject to the discipline and values of prices, profits, and accumulation met to come to terms with each other and, even more important, with those who did the actual physical and scientific work of society—those subject to the industrial discipline. Those subject to the industrial discipline are, like all humans, molded and influenced by the conditions under which they work. The industrial conditions, however, are far different from those that surround the pecuniary markets. The industrial conditions arise from man grappling with machines, with raw materials, and with natural forces. The pecuniary conditions reflect a shrewd purchase, a hard sell, or a protective blocking patent. The one is oriented to the production of commodities and to the exploration of the mysteries of the universe; the other is oriented to the maximisation of profits and the exploration of the mysteries of building and protecting corporate empires. Production and plenty guide the first; scarcity and profitability guide the second. Where was Hoxie to focus this searching spotlight? Not on the pricing problem. In this realm Hoxie was willing to accept the theory of the neoclassical Marshallians, to whom he referred as the "modernised economists." With the tools of modern economics Hoxie was fully familiar. He could dissect a market in terms of supply and demand as neatly as an experienced surgeon completes an appendectomy. Hoxie saw no contradiction between marginal-ism as a guide to price analysis and Veblenism as a guide to evolutionary economics. But in Veblenism a giant loophole remained to be plugged—the operative force. Hoxie set to work with unlimited energy and zeal. The vast Veblenian framework was enlisted in an attempt to dissect and understand the labor movement. It soon became evident that his inquiry must extend far beyond the confines of trade unions. It would have to include the political expressions of the workers, the counterparts of the unions in the pecuniary sphere, the employer associations, also the courts and the law, and most certainly the ever changing technology that was forever weaving new patterns of custom, use, and organization. Hoxie applied a scientific matter-of-factness that was guided and directed by the Veblenian schema. To achieve the crucial understanding of trade unions, Hoxie buried himself within the unlimited detail of union organisation. Professor Hamilton recounts the story that proves how Hoxie penetrated even into the sacrosanct union field of membership figures. At the time when the I.W.W. was being publicised as the organisation that threatened the stability of our basic institutions, Hoxie stormed into Vincent St. John's office in Chicago and claimed "to have the goods on him." Hoxie stated that the highly vaunted I.W.W. had a membership of only 14,300. "You're a liar," St. John cried back, "we have 14,310." ° Details did not overwhelm Hoxie. With the Veblenian framework as a guide, a beautifully conceived apparatus for the analysis emerged. Every phase and every aspect of the industrial discipline was subjected to minute inspection and finally fitted into its proper place. The elaborate latticework starts with an understanding of the aims of unions, proceeds to the policies and principles consistent with and necessary to fulfil those aims, and then to the methods and demands and attitudes which emerge in the day-to-day actions of officials and members. But even this intricate pattern of categories is much too simple to analyse the complex institution we term "unionism." Hoxie found that American unionism did not conform to a single type, as many of his academic colleagues maintained, but to four entirely different types—each with its own set of aims, principles, policies, methods, demands, ° Walton H. Hamilton, "The Development of Hoxie's Economics," _lour. Pol. Econ., XXIV (1916), p. 875.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
and attitudes. Each type has its own remedial program, as Hoxie termed it, its own solution to the industrial-pecuniary conflict. And each type is a legitimate expression of the American worker and the American scene. Some labour economists, particularly those of the view that there is only one legitimate son of the American economy to claim the title "American unionism," have hurled at Hoxie the epithet Veblen made famous: "taxonomist." Certainly Hoxie was a classifier, but he never aimed simply to classify. Hoxie's categories were the product of years of study, and they reveal the true nature of American labor in terms of the Veblen-ian outlook. Proof of the accuracy of these four basic categories is seen in their application to the present labour picture. None of the proponents of a unitary interpretation of the American labor movement would lump together the Weltanschauung of a George Meany, a Walter Reuther, a Harry Bridges, and a Dave Beck. These four examples offer present confirmation of Hoxie's four categories, conceived two generations ago: Meany the business unionist, Reuther the uplift unionist, Bridges the revolutionary unionist, Beck the predatory unionist. Hoxie classified and categorised, not to make complex something which was simple, but rather to make the complex understandable and manageable. The only way he could do this was in terms of the Veblenian framework. To grasp the meaning and importance of the categories it is necessary to interpret each type of unionism in terms of the basic industrial and pecuniary conflict in the context of our machine age. Business unionism accepts as inevitable the pecuniary institutions of capitalism. Its remedial program, arising out of the industrial environment, is directed entirely toward its own immediate economic ends. In pursuit of these limited ends it generally uses business methods of limiting supply. However, if it becomes obvious that other methods are needed to gain immediate economic improvements, these other methods will be adopted. Two important examples are political action and the support of the pecuniary institutions. If it is obvious that immediate gains are obtainable through political activity, or dependent upon such activity, the business union will enter politics. And if it is obvious that immediate economic gains are to be obtained only through change in the pecuniary institutions, then consideration of such change is likely, although the exact remedial program that would emerge cannot be predicted. Business unionism, then, is the unionism whose remedy is more here-and-now. Under "normal" conditions this leads to an autocratic and conservative union whose program will not deal directly with the larger issues posed by the basic pecuniary-industrial conflict in society. Friendly or uplift unionism is "characteristically idealistic in view-point." Its remedies for the basic conflict in society run in terms of co-operative enterprises, profit sharing, or other idealistic plans. There is no serious questioning of the pecuniary mores of society or an at-tempt to change the basic institutions. Instead, there is often the claim that the union is acting in the interest of society as a whole. Thus, there is not a basic, irreconcilable conflict in society. Uplift unionism often claims to discover a middle ground that permits a just solution. Emphasis is on elevating the moral, intellectual, and social life of the worker, while accepting the pecuniary institutions. This reflects the idealistic view of the labour-capital conflict in society. It emphasises immediate uplift reforms. Working with the assumption that personal security and dignity are obtainable for the worker under existing institutions, it is likely to accept programs that do not seriously jeopardise these institutions. Revolutionary unionism, on the other hand, repudiates the existing pecuniary institutions. It completely embraces the industrial discipline and wishes to make dominant those institutions that reflect the industrial values. The socialist variant of revolutionary unionism pursues immediate economic and social reforms, but only as temporary expedients while man continues to live under existing institutions. Socialists emphasise the solidarity of the workingmen as a class and their productive orientation. Their ultimate answer is collective ownership of the means of production, an answer that would supposedly free man and the machine from the inhibiting forces of the profit mechanism. Other variants of revolutionary unionism are likely to eschew all short-run, immediate gains; the anarchist, for example, opposes all outside imposed discipline. His weapons are likely to be those most expressive of this revolt against industrial discipline—violence and sabotage. Predatory unionism is the complete acceptance of pecuniary ends as applied to the labour movement. Gangsters or pecuniary-minded labour leaders might gain control of unions and use them to maximise their own personal gain. This unionism accepts the pecuniary institutions and attempts to capitalise upon control over the industrial discipline. From the point of view of the union, this involves an autocratic, boss rule which delivers enough "goods" to remain in complete control. From the point of view of the pecuniary environment, this involves application of sound business practices to a given market place,s that is, monopoly control to maximise personal gain in return for the sale of a service. This would call for disciplining the workers and probably also disciplining competing producers. A corresponding case in business would be a corporate management group whose guiding principle was personal gain rather than the welfare of the stock-holders. In summary, Hoxie viewed trade unionism as an institution that has grown out of the matter-of-fact recognition by workers of the need for collective action to express their needs and aspirations for improvement of their standard of life. This movement is a response to an industrial environment in a society organised by pecuniary institutions. Since various workers and unions are differently circumstanced, they view the industrial-pecuniary conflict from different perspectives and have different programs. One must analyse and understand each of these four remedial programs for a true understanding of American unionism. The brief recital of Hoxie's incisive categories of trade unionism illustrates how successful he was in establishing a classification that "was true to the modern economic situation." He had accomplished his immediate goal—a framework for evolutionary economics. But it still did not permit Hoxie to answer what he considered the ultimate question, "What, if anything, of a remedial nature can be accomplished?" His quest for an answer proved futile. It proved futile because he was unable to resolve the schizophrenia he found in the American labour movement. The schizophrenia stemmed from the conflict between labor's short-run goals of business unionism and labour's long-run sympathies for basic institutional change. In some ways this split personality is similar to the split Veblen and Hoxie found in capitalism itself—between the pecuniary and the industrial employments. The trade union is brought into being to fulfil the immediate, basic economic needs of the worker. Unless these needs are met by the union, the organisation will fail. But to be successful in this endeavour, the union must play by the rules of the pecuniary game. It cannot be successful if it uses its own rules—rules that are a natural outgrowth of the industrial discipline. Thus, in the pursuit of essential short-run demands, unions often set forces in motion which will smother and even destroy effective expression of their long-run aims. This is, of course, another example of the dilemma Veblen used in his criticism of Marx. As immediate economic reforms are effectuated, the operative force for basic, institutional change is dulled or made nonoperative. Hoxie encountered the same dilemma in his thorough and intensive study of the American Socialist party. Hoxie viewed the Socialists as the natural political arm for the remedial programs of the more mature wing of American unionism. However, the successes of the Socialists in 1910 to 1912 were based almost entirely upon their short-run reform programs. Hoxie warned that, if the revolutionary faction ever obtained control of the Socialist party and deemphasized short-run reform, the socialist movement was doomed to become a small sect removed entirely from the main stream of American life. On the other hand, if the Socialists remained pure middle-class reformers, they would become indistinguishable from the other two parties and would lose the idealistic, class-conscious halo from which they derived their true strength and basic appeal. Either or both of the two political parties could outreform the Socialists on such issues as honest government, efficient administration, prison reform, factory legislation, and so on. The old-line parties had the experience, resources, and, above all, the respectability to effectuate short-run reform programs far more successfully than did the Socialists. What gave the Socialist party its unique character, its only hope for long-term growth and power, was its socialist character. But this was precisely the characteristic that was placed in jeopardy in the exact proportion to its success at the polls. To be successful, it had to emphasise short-run reforms. To the extent that it did, it created the very conditions which could potentially lead to its own destruction. In other words, how can either trade unions or their political parties operate successfully within the pecuniary institutions and at the same time preserve their integrity as organizations of the industrial employments? How can an operative force serve two masters? Hoxie posed this question in a most insistent and timeless fashion just a year before his death. In 1915 he was given a leave of absence from the University of Chicago to conduct an intensive inquiry into scientific management for the United States Industrial Commission. The investigation was a magnificent effort—the questionnaire itself comprised over five hundred detailed questions and reads even today as a complete, guided tour through our industrial establishment. Those interested in studying the implications of automation would do well to give Hoxie's inquiry a careful examination. In the final report to the Commission, Hoxie spelled out two major forces that permeate scientific management, or automation, if you will. The first is man's perpetual desire to advance in science, knowl-edge, and efficiency. Unfortunately, often this advance is a "Franken-stein, temporarily destructive of human rights." But these human rights "are unquenchable, for in the long run they contain the very life of true efficiency itself." Conflict between these two forces, wrote Hoxie, is simply "marking time against the inevitable. It is inherent in the nature of things that they both live and fructify." 7 Today, more than forty years later, it appears that we are still mark-ing time against the inevitable. Despite enormous changes that have taken place in both the pecuniary and the industrial realms, the major problem, as defined by Veblen and Hoxie, remains unresolved. The instinct of workmanship, idle curiosity, scientific matter-of-factness-- all manifestations of the industrial discipline—continue to be con-strained and restrained by the pecuniary institutions. In 1957 this is-sue was raised in dramatic fashion by the successes of Russian science in the field of space satellites. In the re-examination of American science and education that has followed the first two sputniks, the Veblenian approach is everywhere in evidence. The market place, the pecuniary institutions are questioned as appropriate guides to stimu-late and further science. For example, the popular magazine Life, in a recent editorial, analyzed the problem: "When they grew older, the Euphorians [Americans] gave up learning for earning. Earning was a sure path to happiness. . . . Most appalling of all were two major failings which the modern Euphorians atavistically called heresies—</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
' Robert F. Hoxie, Scientific Management and Labor (New York: Appleton, 1915), pp. 138-139. discontent and curiosity." The editorial goes on to offer two alternatives, both of which contain striking Veblenian overtones. The first [alternative was]—to do business as usual, but a little faster. . . . The second alternative was far less happy. . . . To train their children for the newer age involved a drastic remodeling of the happiness schools and a reinstatement of the heresies, discontent and curiosity, as honored virtues. . . . The second alternative demanded, further, that the teacher, the critic and the discoverer be permanently released from their imprisonment in Euphoria's moated ivy towers and allowed to sit down with the earners at dinner and given money enough to buy a new suit occasionally.[8] Incidentally, lest anyone be under the illusion that similar problems, albeit in different forms, do not plague Russians living under different institutions, he should refer to the Russian novel Not by Bread Alone. The author, Vladimir Dudintsev, raises the same issue, in exactly the same form as did Veblen and Hoxie.[9] Under what kind of institutions can that strange individual, the discoverer, the critic, the idly curious, be permitted to develop and contribute to a standardized, bureaucratized, machine civilization? But to return to Hoxie's original question, can American labor still be considered a potential operative force in the Veblenian sense of the term? Although the basic Veblenian framework is unquestionably ap-plicable to the current scene, it is doubtful whether American labor will be an important operative force in bringing our institutions into greater congruence with scientific and industrial progress. What Hoxie has provided is the basic understanding of American labor which, when applied to the current setting, supplies the necessary and suffi-cient conditions under which labor would be an operative force. Unless these conditions are fulfilled, and it is not likely that they will be, labor in the United States will continue to justify Veblen's pessimism. To explain this apparent contradiction (that the Veblen-Hoxie framework is applicable but that American labor is not a probable operative force) it is first necessary to characterize the present-day labor movement in Hoxian terms. American labor in 1957 is funda-mentally different from the movement described by Hoxie fifty years Life, December 16,1957, p. 39. ° Vladimir Dudintsev, Not by Bread Alone, translated from the Russian by Edith Bone (New York: Dutton, 1957).</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
ago in one basic respect—its size. Today over one-third of the actually employed working force is represented by a union. It is now easier to enumerate the unorganized areas than the organised. The nonunion industries are found primarily in white-collar fields (finance, insurance, sales, service, and the like), in those located in the South, and in those who have been sufficiently profitable and expansive to stay ahead of unionism (electronics, oil, instruments ). Thus, unionism is a powerful force in almost all basic American industry. A qualification is in order. Even in those industries where unionism is considered strong (building trades, trucking, needle trades, and so on), there persists a sizable fringe of workers who are unorganized, and who are likely to remain so ( workers in runaway shops or in substandard operations, the self-employed, union members on second jobs, and so on). These unorganized continue to exert a significant pull on the American industrial scene, particularly since a substantial segment of American management refuses to accept unionism as a permanent, legitimate American institution. On the surface it appears that the new, powerful American labour movement can be characterized as entirely business unionist in nature. Almost a decade ago the national organizations of labour joined with governmental agencies to clean their respective houses of the most important present-day variety of revolutionary unionism, the Communists. In recent months this same kind of teamwork has turned on another of Hoxie's categories, predatory unionism. And there is growing agitation, particularly in business journals, to apply the same deft scalpel work against the outstanding practitioner of idealistic union-ism, Walter Reuther. But, superficial appearances and governmental intervention notwithstanding, all categories of trade unionism are per-sisting in the United States, and some of the less popular categories are gaining strength. What is misleading and confusing is the failure to recognize that all types of unions have the same general immediate economic demands. The chapter in Hoxie's book entitled <i>"The Economic Program of Trade Unionism"</i> does not detail different economic programs for different types of unions because in general terms the immediate economic demands of business, predatory, idealistic, and revolutionary unions do not differ significantly. In large measure this accounts for the ability of these unions to want to work together, to affiliate to the same over-all body—as long as the national body adheres to the common denominator of all unions, the basic economic program. However, if one goes behind the immediate economic veil of the unions to inquire, for example, into the methods used to obtain their demands, then the heterogeneity of the different union types is obvious. For example, Reuther will insist on large committee collective bargaining sessions. Beck always preferred the "sweetheart contract" approach. Bridges leans toward job-action and compulsory member-ship meetings. John L. Lewis, or any other business unionist, tends to favor top-man negotiation sessions. The disparities between the differ-ent types of unionism are equally evident in the vast other areas of unionism, from aims, policies, principles, and methods to attitudes and theories. What are the conditions under which this diverse group of organi-zations could possibly become an operative force in the Veblenian sense? If to obtain immediate economic demands, or to survive, it became necessary to question the existing pecuniary institutions, then question them they would. The results of such objections are unpre-dictable, and each type of unionist would approach the problem in a different way. But the joint supremacy of union survival and union economic programs ( which are certainly not unrelated) cannot be doubted. Some indication of union attitudes, if ever this quandary were to present itself, can be found in their response to the need for political activity. When it became obvious that considerable political activity on the part of unions was required if they were to preserve and extend their economic program, almost all unions responded. Business unions tra-ditionally are autocratic; they generally discourage membership par-ticipation except on a limited and carefully defined basis. Effective political organisation requires a different approach, one that business unions are slowly and painfully learning. Similarly, our example of predatory unionism, the teamsters union, has become by necessity one of the most effective political organizations in America. Their cam-paigns against the so-called "right-to-work" bills and against proposed transportation legislation ( e.g., the Weeks proposal) were exception-ally successful. In the case of both the automobile workers (Reuther ) and the longshoremen ( Bridges ), political action has long been an integral part of their union activities. The increased participation in our democratic procedures by unions</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
has not been greeted in all quarters with enthusiastic praise. Major concern has been the response in business circles to the political or-ganization of the one interest group whose members, families, and friends could control most national and many local elections. This concern does not arise because labour is hostile to the basic pecuniary institutions. The support of these institutions by labour has been un-qualified. In fact, even on such issues that have contradicted their own self-interest, union leaders have sacrificed economic demands ( only possible in a full-employment, prosperity economy) for what they considered the patriotic general good. An important case in point is union support of lower tariffs in the face of rising competition from low-wage areas, such as Japan. Moreover, union representatives in legislative bodies have shown remarkable restraint in pursuit of union economic demands—far more restraint than representatives from the business community or from farm areas. Union leaders have repeatedly asked for minimum recognition at the council tables of the government. Recognition would imply that representatives of the business community are not the sole repositories of the important and essential attribute to a democracy—the ability to represent the interests of the entire community in an able, effective, and responsible manner. Management's insistence that labour not be granted that recognition can lead only to increased determination on the part of labour to become more effective in its political organisation. Capable political organisation on the part of unions, if it were to become a reality, is still a far cry from Veblen's operative force. These organizations would seriously question the pecuniary institutions only under severe and unlikely conditions, where their very survival was at stake or where their minimum economic needs and demands were not met and could not be met. Under these incredible and hopeless circumstances the business and revolutionary unionist would certainly consider changing basic institutions. The idealistic and predatory unionist would probably be less willing to do so. However, it appears that impetus to change our institutions to make them more compatible with the scientific and industrial world of twentieth-century America is not likely to come from American labour in, as Veblen would say, the calculable future.</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
A reconsideration of the "tableau économique"</h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.econis.eu/PPNSET?PPN=392222655">http://www.econis.eu/PPNSET?PPN=392222655</a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Leslie Fishman</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Year of Publication: 1958</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Authors: <a href="http://lhzbw.gbv.de/DB=1/SET=2/TTL=1/SRCH?IKT=1004&TRM=fishman,leslie">Fishman, Leslie</a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Published in:</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Current economic comment.- Urbana, Ill., ZDB-ID 2808444. - Vol. 20.1958, 2, p. 41-50</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Subjects: Volkswirtschaftliche Gesamtrechnung</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Type of Publication: Article</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Notes: über: Quesnay, François: <span id="goog_363575759"></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/">Tableau économique. Münster 1758<span id="goog_363575760"></span></a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Title record from database: ECONIS - Online Catalogue of the ZBW</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Availability: In German libraries (KVK) In German libraries (KVK) More access options</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
Item Description: über: Quesnay, François: Tableau économique. Münster 1758</div>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1959</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.colorado.edu/econ/news/50th_anniversary/Econ%2050th%20Slide%20Show.pdf">University of Boulder, Colorado</a> runs a <a href="http://www.colorado.edu/cwa/archives/programs/1959.pdf">debates and lectures on everything weird and wonderful for United Nations Week</a>. The first talk is about Ethiopia, the second on the effect of space research on theories of the origin of life, and later in the week Fishman chairs a talk and debate about Communism. They didn't get him to chair debates after that; he was on the organising committee instead, in which role he inveted <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Kaldor">Nicholas Kaldor</a> over in 1960, who crops-up later. Somehow, Fishman worked-out a way to go to Cambridge. Someone remembers him inviting another heterodox economist called <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gWu6AAAAIAAJ&dq=editions:5TsmSUgLbaAC">Joan Robinson to talk at a similar event in 1964</a>, although he didn't quite persuade her to speak. They probably talked about her diet of vegetarian food and whisky; he mentions in his research on unemployment that Corfam might take-over from leather and synthetic meat take-over from stake as examples of unknown variables. During the 1960s, John Peel the DJ got a job in Texas by implying, without ever actually saying it, that he'd met The Beatles. He was from Merseyside, like The Beatles, but he had spent ten years in boarding school <span style="color: #4c1130;">on Merseyside</span> while the The Beatles had toured night clubs. During the 1960s, Leslie Fishman built-up a back-story. I doubt he actually said it. But people would have assumed an association with teach-ins and free economics classes, and the phrases in Nina Fishman's obituraries above: <i>"A talented economist on the US academic circuit", "</i><i>dismissed for his political views – despite having established a reputation as an outstanding, if unorthodox, academic economist".</i></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1960</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This journal includes "<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_4.html">is higher education a hoax?</a>", which is suggests more problems than solutions. It presumes that students are not interested in their study, that there is some kind of Butlins life that attracts them to college, and that basic training always needs to be taught and re-taught before anything interesting. It names the problem of colleges teaching each course as an introduction to some imagined next stage like post-graduate or post-post-graduate for ever. Fishman's article was published as plain text in four sections; I've added formatting. Here is the context: Table of Contents Front Matter Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737629 // CONTRIBUTORS (p. ii): http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737630 // <b>THE PAST IN CHINA'S PRESENT: A Cultural, Social, and Philosophical Background for Contemporary China</b> (pp. 281-308) Joseph Needham : <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737631">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737631</a> // <b>THE CRYSTALLISATION OF MODERN ART</b> (pp. 309-330) Paul Love: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737632">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737632</a> // <b>LIBERALISM: HUMAN RIGHTS AND BEHAVIOURAL SCIENCE</b> (pp. 331-353) Christian Bay: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737633">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737633</a> // <b>IS HIGHER EDUCATION A HOAX?</b> (pp. 354-370) Robert Vincent Daniels: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737634">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737634</a> // <b>WHITHER ECONOMIC GROWTH? (pp. 371-390) Leslie Fishman</b>: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737635">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737635</a> // <b>THE END OF THE "LONG RUN"</b> (pp. 391-408) Richard E. Sullivan: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737636">http://www.jstor.org/stable/23737636</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Growth . . . is . . . the substitution of the worthwhile and lasting in our national life for the shoddy and the ephemeral.</i>- <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Sproul">Allen Sproul</a></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
WHITHER ECONOMIC GROWTH?</h3>
Leslie Fishman THIS ARTICLE DISCUSSES the future economic growth of the United States. <span style="color: #0c343d;">The debate now raging on this topic revolves primarily around comparisons of rates of growth in the United States, the Soviet Union, China, and Western Europe, and around the general issue of whether rapid growth and full employment can be achieved without a price inflation.</span> <span style="color: #660000;">I believe, however, that a proper analysis requires larger boundaries than those offered by employment and rates of growth, especially as these are now defined by Keynesian economists. We need a much broader concept of growth, a new unit of value for measuring that growth, and a realisation that these may require as to forgo future luxuries for the sake of larger rewards that will accrue to society.</span> <span style="color: #4c1130;">Since the solutions I suggest stem partly from classical economic theories, a review of these will be useful for relating our problems in growth to the problems France and England faced in the 18th and 19th centuries, and to see how the classical theories differed from the modern Keynesian theory.</span> <span style="color: #4c1130;">Classical economists took as their point of departure the distinction between market price and value. Market price is the product of the supply and demand forces in the market place. True value is the product of a theoretical construct which reflects what an economist believes to be the necessary [p372] elements for growth. Although each classical economist had his own definition of value, each drew the basic distinction between the market price, which actually allocated resources and capital, and true value, which is the way resources and capital should be ideally allocated for the proper growth of society. By the middle of the 18th century it became apparent to many Frenchmen, who were concerned over the future of their nation, that the much smaller, less populated upstart across the English channel was easily forging ahead of the great and potentially all-powerful France. The rates of growth clearly favoured the British. But why? From the myriad of economic, social, political, and geographic factors at work, the French school of economists known as the <b></b></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #4c1130;"><b>Physiocrats</b></span></h4>
<span style="color: #4c1130;">chose one key variable. Unless a tax base is prosperous and thriving, heavier duties are self-defeating. The more taxes that are demanded, the less capital is available to increase productivity. The French attempts to collect the monstrous feudal tithes were literally squeezing the blood out of the French farmer—the base upon which rested the Crown, the Church, and the Nobility. The Physiocrats theorised that if sufficient capital could be invested in the French farms, then the agricultural revolution, which had provided the base for the English leap forward, could be transplanted to French soil. Larger farms, properly tilled, drained, irrigated, and managed, would yield a surplus that would satisfy even Louis Quatorze's grandiose spending habits. Lavoisier, the eminent French chemist and a confirmed Physiocrat, proved how profitable a rationalised French farming venture could ac-tually become. He purchased contiguous small farms, pro-ceeded to apply the latest English scientific farming tech-niques, and doubled and tripled the yield in a few years. Thus, the Physiocrats, the first "scientific" economists, argued for a public policy that would favour giant flows of capital into agriculture; the consequent development of agriculture [p373] would provide France with the economic growth she required for prosperity and progress. A tax moratorium and tax re-form, followed by the crown's abrogation of monopoly grants to manufacturing and trading companies, would permit the "natural" channelling of capital into its most profitable uses. The Physiocrats believed that under competitive conditions the channelling would be away from trading and manufacturing and into agriculture. Without monopoly grants from the king, the profit rates in trading and manufacturing would plummet, and with massive capital investment in agriculture, the profit rates for farm investment would soar. The old market place mechanism, with monopoly grants and oppressive feudal taxes, distorted the flow of capital. Price and true value were not the same. It was the duty and responsibility of the monarchy, interested in France's growth and future, to change the tax and price structure to permit proper allo-cation of capital and to accelerate the development of France.<b></b></span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #4c1130;"><b>Adam Smith</b>,</span></h4>
<span style="color: #4c1130;">following close on the heels of the Physiocrats, chose for his main problem the economic growth of England. He too saw the market place, with its monopoly distortions, misallocating capital. The trading companies, as in France, made enormous profits because of the monopoly Crown grants. Capital and profits were ploughed back into the pursuits where the return was the greatest—trading. But economic resources devoted to speculative shipping and co-lonial ventures were clearly not contributing to England's basic economic strength. Capital should have rightfully gone into basic improvements in agriculture, home manufacturing, and internal trade before it was syphoned off into operations of questionable value, such as long-distance trading and free-booting. England's strength lay in the excellence of her farms and the efficiency of her manufacturing—not on the amount of gold specie collected from a favourable balance of trade. Smith saw the Mercantilists succeed in bribing a needy throne to renew and expand colonial, domestic, and trading [p374] monopolies, and thus to mis-allocate capital. If the free winds of competition mild only prevail, if the Crown would only keep its hands off the market place, then prices and profits would allocate capital into its truly best uses, argued Adam Smith. But as it existed in 1776, the monopoly ridden market misdirected resources. Price and true economic value were distinguishable and separate. Until the markets were made competitive, prices and values would not be the same, and prices would not properly channel capital into its most productive uses. By the time</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #4c1130;"><b>David Ricardo</b></span></h4>
<span style="color: #4c1130;">appeared upon the scene in the early 19th century, the most perceptive began to realise that a basic shift had taken place: industry, the infant spawned by science and technological advance, was rapidly growing to manhood. Agriculture was no longer the strategic element. The glory and greatness of England, her true economic growth, would best be fulfilled by stimulating and accelerating this adolescent's development as rapidly as possible. Ricardo argued that the funds flowing into the coffers of the English gentry, the landlords and agricultural interests, were being wasted. The lands and resources of the colonies and the Americas could satisfy the expanding agricultural needs of England far more efficiently than could the English farms. The high tariffs on food (the Corn Laws) had to be abolished. The unnaturally high prices of agricultural produce would decline, wages would decline, industrial profits would rise, and agricultural rents would decline. Then, capital would flow into industry, now the proper channel for the growth and development of England.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #4c1130;">The <b>Reverend Malthus</b></span></h4>
<span style="color: #4c1130;">argued just the reverse. The high price of corn did keep rents high, but this was desirable for England. It minimised the threat of gluts and led to further advances in English agricultural science and development. The Ricardo-Malthus arguments are unmistakably relevant today to the farm problem in the United States. And just es the political tide is turning against [p575] the farmer in America, to did it turn in the mid-19th century against the landlords and in favour of the Birmingham free traders. The economic theories offered by Ricardo, Smith, and the Physiocrats were all built on the distinction between prevailing prices of the market place, which misalocated capital into the most profitable uses, and true value, which would allocate capital into channels most beneficial to economic growth and development. In each case the theorist had to perceive the area of the economy which, in the near future, would make the maximum contribution to economic growth. He then devised a measure of true value which reflected the historical judgement about growth. When applied to the economy, the measure of true value "proved" that the market mechanism was misalocating capital and resources. The less productive employments were favoured over the most productive. If the key reform of the theorist would be instituted (tax reform, laissez-faire, repeal of the Corn Laws), price would be aligned with true value and rapid growth would ensue. Specifically, for example, Ricardo argued that market prices of agricultural goods were unduly high; they drove up the subsistence wages for labour and caused the low profits for industry. Ricardo used a labour theory of value to prove that the most productive area of the English economy—industry—was being starved for capital. His strategic reform, repeal of the Corn Laws, would result in lower food prices, lower wages, and increased industrial profits; thus his reform would properly allocate capital for rapid economic growth of England. Since the mid 19th century, economists have been loath to question the dispensations of the market place; value and price have become synonymous. For Smith, Ricardo, the Physiocrats, and their followers, value reflected, in Allen Sproul's words, "the worthwhile and lasting" in economic [p376] life; price often reflected "the shoddy and ephemeral." But, <span style="background-color: yellow;">since roughly 1850, orthodox economists have taken price and value to be the same. Perhaps the neo-classicists (Jevons, Menger, Walras, Marshall, Keynes, etc.) could assume an identity between value and price because history was relatively kind.</span> Perhaps the market place allocation of capital for the past century has conformed, in the overall, with the needs of economic growth. The giant capital needs of the iron and steel industry, the railroads, and the chemical, petroleum, electrical, and other manufacturing industries were met largely through the private market, with key government assists. Thus, instead of having to worry about capital needs and growth, <span style="background-color: yellow;">neo-classical economists could, with some exceptions, enjoy the luxury of becoming preoccupied with problems of price stability and depressions</span>.</span></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">II When the problem of the economic growth of the United States arose in our present decade, economists attempted to use familiar theories—largely Keynesian. The classical theories, specifically concerned with the problem of growth, have been ignored.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;">Keynesian</span> theory,</h4>
<div style="text-align: left;">
an outgrowth of the Great Depression, is an integral part of the conceptual framework of most modern economists. It has provided a meaningful matrix within which to view recent economic problems of the business cycle, and war and postwar transitions. However, a review of the application of Keynesian theory to the current problem of growth indicates that a return to the</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;">Classical theory,</span></h4>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">with its basic distinction between value and price, might be in order. <span style="background-color: white;"></span></span><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;"><span style="background-color: white;"><a href="https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/historical/jec/19600126_jec_empgrowth_report.pdf"><span style="color: #0c343d;"><span style="background-color: white;">The extensive hearings before the J</span></span>joint Economic Committee of the 85th and 86th Congresses of the United States on "Employment, Growth, and Price Levels" provide us with an unparallelled opportunity to observe present day theories on growth. The leading economists of the United [p377] States, from industry•, labour, and the universities, have submitted papers and testimony</a>.</span> The title of the hearings probably reflects the attempt by the Chairman, Senator Paul Douglas, former economist at the University of Chicago, to wed the Keynesian theories and problems of price stability and depressions with the new challenge that arises from the Soviet and Chinese rates of economic growth. Before attempting to show why a return to the classical type of theory is necessary to tackle the problem of growth effectively, let us briefly review the major positions taken during the hearings.</span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;"><b>The "facts" on growth</b> appear to be well established.</span></h4>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">For the 120 years between 1839 and 1959, the average yearly increase in our Gross National Product (GNP) was nearly 5 percent. Correcting this for price inflation, the <i>real</i> average rate of growth was about 3½ percent. Further, if population increases are taken into account, there has been an average rate of increase in real GNP <i>per head</i> of between 1<span class="st">⅝</span> percent and 1<span class="st">¾</span> percent per year. The rate of growth has been lowest in New England and highest in the Southeastern sta.. Specific sectors in the economy compare as follows with the overall 3½ percent increase per year of real GNP: agriculture, 1<span class="st">¾</span>%; transportation, 2<span class="st">¾</span>%; services and construction, 3½: trade, 4; manufacturing and mining, 4½; and government, 5 percent.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">The overall 3½ percent increase in real product is an enormous rate to sustain for over a century, but present estimates of Russian growth for the short post-war period are between 6 and 7 percent per year. Since their population growth is about 1½ percent, this leaves a real GNP increase per head of about 5 percent per year, as compared with ours of just under 2 percent. The estimates for the Chinese economy are much higher. The rates of growth of West European nations, particularly West Germany and Austria, are also spectacular when contrasted with our own rates, though not nearly so disturbing as those of Russia and China. [p378]</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">The recent Rockefeller Report, rounding upward our own recent rate of growth of real GNP to 4 percent, admonishes us to strive to increase this to 5 percent.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">The question is, how can this be done? Many Keynesians even question our ability to sustain a 4 percent rate. Others spur us on to aspire to rates even higher than 5 percent.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">Economists offering testimony to the Joint Economic Committee can be classified into two main groups<span style="background-color: white;">—<b></b></span></span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="color: #0c343d;"><span style="background-color: white;"><b>those who emphasised employment</b></span> (Keynesians), and</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #0c343d;"><span style="background-color: white;"><b>those who emphasised prices</b></span> (money theorists).</span></li>
</ul>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">The Keynesian theory focuses primarily upon the balance between effective demand and production. If demand exceeds production, then output will expand. Demand is broken down into two major components: consumer spending by households, which has a stable relationship to income, and investment spending by business, which undergoes severe fluctuations, depending upon the profit outlook. If total effective demand falls short of that required for "full" employment, then government spending can be increased (or tax. reduced). In the 1953-54 recession, taxes were reduced; in the recent recession, federal spending was increased. The opposite also holds true. If total spending is too great—if it exceeds the outflow of goods and services with the economy working at full employment—then government retards spending by overbalancing the budget.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">When applied to a dynamic growth problem, the Keynesian model has occupied itself with the continuing balance of effective demand and capacity. Total private demand is simply the sum of consumption spending and investment spending. As investment spending increases, demand increases, but capacity to produce also increases. If this capacity increases faster than demand, then a recession will overtake the economy. But if the growth in demand keeps pace with or out-distances the growth in capacity to produce goods and services, then optimism and expansion will follow.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">Most Keynesians in the Congressional Hearings focused [p379] their attention upon this vital rate of increase in demand. Labour economists urged that we emphasise consumer purchasing power to bolster effective demand. Business econo-mists urged that the tax structure and cost-price relationship be modified to stimulate investment spending in order to sustain effective demand (e.g., rapid depreciation of new facilities). Many economists urged a blending of both kinds of policies.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">However, neither type of Keynesian policy can be pursued without risking rising prices and inflation. Either course, if effective, involves keeping total demand in advance of total production and output. To do so keeps the economy under pressure; it will then run at full speed.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;">Many money and banking theorists remain fearful of such a course, especially since we have inherited from World War II a huge increase in the national debt.</span></h4>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">More than $200 billion of federal debt is now held in private hands, and it can be turned into money at any time. A flood of purchasing could conceivably be unleashed that would jeopardise the entire economy. Some of these theorists argue for a rapid repayment of the debt, come what may. Others argue that too do not yet truly know the workings of our economy; until we have more reliable information, we should minimise government intervention. Perhaps the best course, they say, is to have the money supply increased by a fixed percent each year —and do no more! In general, these monetary theorists are most concerned about the warping and distension of our money system that results from a government policy oriented to promoting full employment.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;">The Keynesians reply that growth and avoidance of the wastes and hardships of depressions are more vital than the ill effects of an inflation—</span></h4>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">which, up to this point, have been remarkably mild, and which might be kept in bounds through effective anti-trust action. The ill effects of an inflation to those on fixed incomes can be offset in other ways than by [p380] risking another Great Depression. On the other hand, the monetary theorists point with pride to the twelve years of relatively continuous prosperity our economy has enjoyed, despite the cries of "wolf" the Keynesian have been quick to use in each of the three post-war recessions.</span> <span style="color: #0c343d;"></span> <span style="color: #0c343d;">And so the debate rages. Which shall it be, full employment or price stability? The joint Economic Committee is earnestly and assiduously searching for a way to attain all three: full employment, price stability, and growth.</span><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #0c343d;">However, do full employment and price stability really indicate maximum growth?</span></h4>
<span style="color: #0c343d;">To measure growth, all economists use the GNP, or variations of it; however, this system of accounting was devised to provide data for the Keynesian model: it cannot distinguish between true value and price. Market prices rule supreme. For an analysis of spending and production, GNP is ideal; but for an analysis of growth it is inadequate.</span> III<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
A transaction is included in GNP if it is a final purchase, but many final purchases obviously do not enhance true growth.</h4>
For example, a consumer buys a harmful patent medicine: production of the medicine then increases, GNP increases, and, supposedly, growth increases. Again, increased consumer debt results in higher interest charges, which are included by economic accountants in GNP and economic growth. Therefore, if we all buy on credit rather than pay cash, we help the economy grow. Similarly, a $1,000 fee for an unsuccessful medical operation would increase GNP as much as $1,000 paid for development of the Salk Vaccine. We cannot pick and choose, say the national economic accountants. Our job is to measure purchases and production and income, not to moralise about the value of different transactions. If a consumer makes a legal purchase, then the amount of that purchase must be included in GNP. [p381]<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
But perhaps the Keynesian accounts, important as they are for short run employment and income theory, are simply not applicable to growth theory.</h4>
For example, the major increase in the labour force in recent years has been the increase in the employment of women—especially older married women. Because the time that a wife spends taking care of a house and children is not bought and sold on the market, GNP does not include it. When these same women enter the labour force and take jobs, their salaries then increase GNP. However, they in turn often hire someone to perform their household chores; and since the hired house-keeping service is in the market, this too is included as an addition to GNP. Income undoubtedly increases when women enter the labour force, but the amount is inflated because their previous services were not included in GNP. An exceptionally large proportion of the GNP increase in recent years is traceable to the increased supply of women in the labour force. Has true economic growth increased by a similar amount? What do we mean in mid-20th century by growth? What in today's world is "worthwhile and lasting"? I submit that<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
scientific exploration of the universe is clearly the mainstay of our growth.</h4>
We no longer need much more expansion in our steel making capacity, but we do need an enormous extension of education, research, and pure scientific development. It is becoming generally accepted that the growth race of the present and future is the race in the laboratory and classroom and tinkerer's workshop; it is not the race solely of the market place and industrial capacity. It is gratifying to read in popular business journals statements that a few years ago could only be found in National Science Foundation Reports, or in the Hearings before the Senate Committee on Labour and Public Welfare (on science and education for national defence). For example, the opening celebration of the Seagram's (whiskey) building in New York was built [p382] around the theme The Future of Man," with the keynote being "Frontiers now are intellectual and in outer space." The president of the Minneapolis-Honeywell firm, Paul Wishart, is quoted by the <i>New York Times</i> (January 6, 1960) as predicting that the real success or failure of a company in the 1960's would be determined by "the quality of its business judgement over research and development." And <i>Business Week</i>, the respected "peak" journal of the many McGraw-Hill industrial publications, came to exactly the same conclusion in their special report of January 23, 1960: "THE U.S. INVENTS A NEW WAY TO GROW. Use of research to create steady flow of new product and processes is a new key to economic growth—generally overlooked in current growth debate." All of the foregoing emphasises that the appropriate statistics for growth will be built around measures that reflect the quantity and quality of resources devoted to research and education, as well as the happiness of the consumer and the capacity of our industrial plant. We can now re-cast the question, "Whither Growth?", in old classical economic terms: Is the market place, using traditional profit return as its guide, properly allocating capital according to present needs for growth? An analysis of the most profitable corporations strongly suggests that the tnar-ket is not properly allocating capital. The latest Fortune directory lists the following to companies as the most profitable of the "500 Largest U.S. Industrial Corporations" for 1958: 33.5% American Home Products - <i>return on capital</i> 33.1% Smith, Kline and French Labs 32.4% Gillette 29.3% Revlon 28.9% Avon Products 28.4% Chemstrand 26.6% Champion Spark Plug 24.6% Botany Mills 24.1% Brunswick-Balke-Collender 23.6% Pepsi-Cola [p383] This list shows that capital funds, to maximise their return, should continue to flow in increasing amounts into tranquilisers, TV sports advertising, TV question contests and spectaculars, home cosmetic sales, bowling, and light refreshments. Clearly, with the exception of Chemstrand, and possibly Smith, Kline and French (pharmaceuticals), the high profit rates of the big ten" do not direct capital into basic research. Basic research may pay off for society at large, but not necessarily for the individual enterprise. In this case, what is best for the individual or for the individual company may not necessarily be best for society. Another way to approach this same problem is to examine the one corporation that has been outstanding in its stimulation and sponsorship of basic research, the American Telephone and Telegraph in its Bell Laboratories. The great economist Joseph Schumpeter defended monopoly power and profits largely on the grounds that such profits were necessary to support the huge amounts of capital required for research, development, and innovation (innovation being the practical application of basic research into a commercial product). But one is hard pressed to go much beyond the Bell Labs for private examples of basic research. AT&T is the great exception. It found itself astride the greatest monopoly of our day, and yet one that lent itself to enormous research developed cost savings. The profit returns to even its relatively small competitors have been safe and high. AT&T was in a most enviable position: they had the money, the incentive, and the industry to carry out both pure and applied research. According to expert evaluation, they have done this remarkably well. (An interesting aside here is that [p384] even the competent and astute AT&T—and General Electric—passed over radio as an innovation because it did not appear to have a promising future.) But AT&T's research funds are now in jeopardy. The recent Federal Communications Commission ruling that long-distance rates be cut by $50 million a year, undoubtedly justified by consumer and FCC standards, will have repercussions on AT&T's research efforts, as Frederick Kappel, President of AT&T, was quick to point out at the time of the decision. Thus, even governmental policy, which recently has been most active in its support of research, finds it difficult to reconcile the objectives of the market place and true growth. The U. S. private economy, as a whole, has done remarkably little in pure research, and much that has been achieved was done by European trained scientists. Despite a market structure ridden throughout with monopoly and oligopoly elements, the emphasis of the market place on non-price competition (location, packaging, advertising, salesmanship, etc.) has diverted capital and brains primarily into non-research areas. For example, stockholders of a cigarette corporation would certainly be justified in impeaching a board of directors that decided to use most of their undistributed profits for cancer research instead of consumer surveys, new filter research, new packaging, and new advertising campaigns. What applies to corporations also applies to the individual. The market place allocates labour largely through the the payment of higher or lower wages and salaries. The returns to an Elvis Presley, Dick Clark, an advertising psychologist, a market researcher, or a Mickey Mantle, are for greater than the returns to a research scientist. Although studies have shown that many of our most successful inventors were motivated primarily by an enquiring mind, these same studies indicate that the profit motive is also very significant. Moreover, the values of society, as reflected in [p385] the market place, are reflected in all the key institutions that shape the young. A ten year old today is far more likely to want to emulate Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra than Louis Pasteur, despite Paul Muni's excellent performance. Non-monetary considerations should not be ignored, of course, but who would deny that the high salaries of Madison Avenue draw many fine minds away from the laboratory? The wisdom of the dispensations of the market place can also be questioned in the area of research supplies and publishing. For example, Russia may publish more scientific books than we do, by a considerable margin, but we far out-distance her in the publication of advertising catalogues, both industrial and consumer. We have worshipped long and dutifully at the shrine of consumer choice—and few would question the many benefits that have resulted. Because sufficient numbers of consumers have voted with their dollars for certain products and withheld their votes from other products, the producers of goods and services in the United States have been forced continually to pass the tests imposed by the market place.<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
But how can a consumer vote for more basic research?</h4>
Moreover, even if he could, to do so would be against the consumer's own interest. The results of pure research are obviously made available to all companies. Basic discoveries, like Einstein's law of relativity, or the solution to a classic mathematical problem, are not patentable. Thus the consumer does not get his money's worth if he buys from a company which spends "lavishly" on pure research; he should buy from the company that <i>applies</i> the research results most profitably and let someone else foot the bill for basic research. The most striking example of this rational and completely understandable lack of interest in basic research by the business community is in the exploration of nuclear energy. It has been only in the last year or two that corporations, most of whom are in dominant oligopoly [p386] positions, have shown any interest in using funds of their own for nuclear power research. Therefore, it appears that we are caught in another situation where the needs of society at large may require a modification of the manner in which the market place is allocating capital and resources. As was true for the classical economists, value and price are no longer the same. How then can we properly allocate capital? How can we determine whether spending a billion dollars on research and education gives to more value than spending it on consumer goods? For 1960 it is anticipated that the United States will spend about $10 billion on research and development (loosely defined), out of a GNP of over $500 billion. Of the $10 billion, more than half will come from the Federal Government, and most of the government money will be in the defence area. Only a small fraction of the total $1,3 billion is for truly basic research. For example, one scientific expert estimates that only about one-fiftieth of the Defence Department's expenditures for research and development is allotted to pure research. Another observer, in the cost analysis department of the RAND Corporation, estimates that only one percent of the $lo billion is devoted to "Brave New World" research—his euphemism for basic research. <span style="color: #660000;">IV</span><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #660000;"></span></div>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #660000;">Let us agree, then, that resources for research and education are our strategic factor, just as industry and agricultural investment were the key elements for the Physiocrats, Adam Smith, and Ricardo.</span></h4>
<span style="color: #660000;">The true future growth of the U. S. economy depends upon the total amount allocated for research and education, the proper distribution and utilisation of these resources, and the proper social environment to encourage this kind of activity. What criteria are available to help us decide to increase the research funds from $10 billion to say $15 billion, or even $20 billion, in the near [p387] future? Ideally, we could erect a theory similar to those of the classical economists. A new unit of value (they used the number of hours required to produce a commodity) would replace market price for a guide to allocation. If such a measure could conceivably be used for pure research, where an hour of a scientist's time would equal 20 hours (or 5, or yo) of average labour time, then comparisons and conclusions could be drawn. But no such common measure exists, although communication theory offers hope of developing just such a basic unit reflecting varying complexities of intellectual work. Moreover, even if we had such a measure, who would apply it for decision making? Clearly, these decisions about funds and resources for pure research are above and beyond the consumer and the individual corporation. (Many historians of inventions have stressed that the fruits of research and invention are, in a very real sense, the products of all past societies. That there is a neat kind of symmetry here where both the allocation and sacrifice decisions are to be made by the total community, which is also the recipient of the benefits.) Thus, they must be community decisions; and yet each of as will be affected in many ways by these decisions. First, the more research money that is made available, the more goods and luxuries we will be forced to forgo. However, we will also reap the benefits of the increase in research; these benefits can now almost be predicted in ad-vance—not in particulars, but in an aggregate sense. We have already had sufficient experience with research expenditures to be able to predict, within certain limits, what various amounts of this "investment" will probably yield in the organised, directed laboratory. But recent surveys of "basic" inventions by Jewkes and Hamberg have concluded that more than half of these inventions have been made by the individual, completely outside organised efforts for research of the corporations or the government. These eccentric tinkerers should also be given maniac aid, in these days when [p388] research training and equipment is so expensive, not only because they are as productive as all the organised laboratories together, but also because they represent in a very genuine way the epitome of the Jeffersonian ideal applied to the industrial civilisation. Pearson, the founder of modern statistics, projected a similar vision for modern society: sufficient training and leisure for every individual to permit everyone to be a researcher, even if the research is extremely limited in scope and depth.</span> <span style="color: #660000;"></span> <span style="color: #660000;">But there presently exists no measure of research potential that can be compared to the application of the same effort to commodity production. Until such a guide is developed, three kinds of approach to the problem are available: laissez-faire, reform, and a basic institutional change. The laissez-faire solutions emphasise the flexibility of the market, and propose that the big switch to research that began in 1954 (when the Revenue Act gave corporations liberty to "expense" research and development outlays) will accelerate. There is no question that private expenditures and voluntary institutions have responded to the research challenge, but almost everyone also acknowledges that limitations of personnel, equipment, and practical profitability are severe.</span> <span style="color: #660000;"></span> <span style="color: #660000;">The reform approach, without a bask new analysis such as described above, is without a definite perspective. Nevertheless many important reform measures can be explored and would, if implemented, result in major changes in research and education. Our patent system, for example, has long been in need of an overhaul. The crucial independent "tinkerers" are at a distinct disadvantage in our present judicial proceedings, which greatly favour the large corporations with permanent expert staffs that concentrate on protecting the company's patent positions. Another tax reform, comparable to the 1954 Revenue Act's treatment of company's research outlays, would be to make every individual's spending on education and basic research tax deductible. This [p389] would not be an easy deduction to define and administer, but the difficulties are not insurmountable. A society that exempts the ubiquitous "expense" account expenditures should certainly be able to afford tax exemption for individual education and research expenditures. Another conceivable reform would be the matching-of-funds approach for truly pure research. A company or individual or university should perhaps be able to apply to the government for a matching grant for any "Brave New World" outlays. A board of scientific experts could evaluate spending for projects that have absolutely no practical application. Independence of the curious mind would be preserved and some offset to the present directed type of pure research would be possible. Finally, some thought might be given to a tax on manufacturers who insist on making product changes for purely style obsolescent reasons. These funds could then be used to subsidise industry-wide research laboratories for pure research. Thus, the auto manufacturers would not be prohibited from making expensive style retooling; the additional tax would simply make it a little more expensive. The funds collected would then be spent for research and education. A similar tax might be considered on advertising that is not informational.</span> <span style="color: #660000;"></span> <span style="color: #660000;">The basic institutional change approach would mean carrying to its ultimate conclusion the generalisation that scientific and technological advance belongs to all society. Thus, some political democratic institution would have to be evolved that would make possible enormous research and educational expenditures, perhaps even in the order of magnitude of our present defence spending. Industry-wide, regional, national, and even international laboratories, histories, and programs would be initiated. Prizes and awards for mathematical and scientific break-throughs could be offered that would be ten times more lucrative than the Nobel prises. (Sweden is, after all, a relatively small and poor [p390] country. The United States is in a far better position to undertake science awards commensurate with present inflation and TV standards.) Moreover, our entire attitude toward work and leisure might similarly undergo some bask modifications. The great American attribute of tinkering can be combined with the limitless challenge of scientific frontiers, and a truly new and modern set of institutions might emerge.</span></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1961</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Geographic Variations in Prices</h3>
<i>Econometrica</i> reported Fishman at the American Economic Society conference held in Stillwater, Oklahoma: Paper was presented but not published in the report. The title suggests a set of notes on the prices of second-hand cars in different states, probably alongside notes of the cost of going to buy a car, and possibly crunched through a tabulator machine to find any unexpected results. In contrast, another paper that does get published is entirely algebra; entirely tautology and shorthand. It begins "Let ... equal ..." and goes on in greek letters to tease the typesetter.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
The Market Basket versus the Utility approaches <br />
to consumer price indexes</h3>
<a href="http://www.econbiz.de/Search/Results?lookfor=%22Fishman%2C+Leslie%22&type=Author">Fishman, Leslie</a> <a href="http://www.econbiz.de/Search/Results?lookfor=%22Proceedings+of+the+Business+and+Economic+Statistics+Section+%2F+American+Statistical+Association+%3A+papers+presented+at+the+annual+meeting+of+the+American+Statistical+Association%2C+...+under+the+sponsorship+of+the+Business+and+Economic+Statistics+Section.%22&type=PublishedIn">Proceedings of the Business and Economic Statistics Section / American Statistical Association : papers presented at the annual meeting of the American Statistical Association, ... under the sponsorship of the Business and Economic Statistics Section.</a>- Alexandria, Va : Assoc, ISSN 0066-0736, ZDB-ID 2091197. - 1961, p. 378-383 <a href="http://lhzbw.gbv.de/DB=1/SET=2/TTL=1/SHW?FRST=4">http://lhzbw.gbv.de/DB=1/SET=2/TTL=1/SHW?FRST=4</a> <a href="http://www.econis.eu/PPNSET?PPN=546560814">From http://www.econis.eu/PPNSET?PPN=546560814</a> Five mentions and a heading in <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L7hgAAAAIAAJ&q=Leslie+Fishman&dq=Leslie+Fishman&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIlNzG-vTKAhVDbxQKHRC1BMwQ6AEINzAD"><b>Water: measuring and meeting future requirements</b></a>, Harold A Amos, University of Colorado, 261 page book.</blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1962</span></b></b></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Letter to the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists</b></h3>
Fishman writes to this disarmament magazine to suggest that <i>"each nation of the world would agree to tax itself one percent of its arms budget and pay this tax to the United Nations to be used for health, welfare, and development". "The major difficulties will be in establishing uniform definitions and in checking the amount spent"</i>. <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RwkAAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&dq=%22Leslie%20Fishman%22&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q=%22Leslie%20Fishman%22&f=true">The letter can be read on Google Books at full width</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<b>A note on disarmament and effective demand</b></h3>
</blockquote>
------------------------------------------------<img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxgM0vH7lxEFzg0d_gyYWl8ASWKCvLPxLCjR9aK7hHXEXEsSESLWd1Y65iGOqkR07miRgp3N7ZW0VfFFPw0sS3PR-EGoANQcntMZ7TZlo0F9QASZaelrTCGSxC__3D0GyqQP5SQYueP3V3/s1600/temp0.jpg" /> <img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJocfv9w2Th_bVXu0FdStHIDBcdPrKBNrxfrBWQPIBDMBEBR-NABSuCyuKQdvXCPHj44Omv_fNs9W_rQ2in64sLuAC5PAlCFkk15hs5NCamibg_z5hzABlw5nn4A4xWdj3TbMUUhU0-0t2/s1600/temp.jpg" /> <img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjygGDhTOFBNWiVPDfkCjXq0XnDw8naNSuxkXs0eRlXxuGSHgSwwRTq8atcC2T9-PcX9bzvaooD8C9t4VpnkVJTSLxqI61Ab3gCn_RK3O8lLrzTEPTsWnBiRXZXyYVD1iPCcH7riKGQh92c/s1600/temp.jpg" /> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfk3gGUEzxis_CzneWqcXV21aRdiMz3Db1rdvmCDnV5sMtH5Lr7Z6_vRpPdDJbTX9Vlc5QfmnUtqhJDvfAI828VSpCoVdibzgAJasM9DgTQyIdW8xMBFaJ214qwAXonosD8gljkr7pKsO1/s1600/temp.gif" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="24" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfk3gGUEzxis_CzneWqcXV21aRdiMz3Db1rdvmCDnV5sMtH5Lr7Z6_vRpPdDJbTX9Vlc5QfmnUtqhJDvfAI828VSpCoVdibzgAJasM9DgTQyIdW8xMBFaJ214qwAXonosD8gljkr7pKsO1/s640/temp.gif" width="640" /></a><br />
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>In 1962, the family came to Britain – hounded from America by the McCarthy campaign. Leslie Fishman began lecturing at Cambridge then moved on to Warwick University and finally was appointed first chair of economics at Keele University - <a href="http://www.tribunemagazine.org/2010/01/obituary-nina-fishman-1946-2010/">Obituary of Nina Fishman in Tribune</a></i> <a class="author-name-tooltip" href="http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/28458416/leslie-fishman">LESLIE FISHMAN</a></blockquote>
<div class="conference">
<blockquote>
<span id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_txtJournal">Journal:</span> <a class="conference-name" href="http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Journal/4690/econ-inq-economic-inquiry" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_HLJournal">Economic Inquiry - ECON INQ</a> <span class="year" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_YearJournal">, vol. 1, no. 1, pp. 57-65, 1962 Only page 57 is free from Wiley.com and copied below</span> Full text free from <a href="http://phdtree.org/pdf/32474620-mater-el-magistra/">http://phdtree.org/pdf/32474620-mater-el-magistra/</a><span id="goog_1724961450"></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/"></a><span id="goog_1724961451"></span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<span class="year" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_YearJournal"></span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span class="year" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_YearJournal">MATER ET MAGISTRA*</span></h3>
<span class="year" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_YearJournal">Fishman made a mistake; he didn't realise that if you ignore religious biggots, they're more likely to go away and stop doing damage. I've made the same mistake in quoting the full text here. MATER E l MAGISTRA* LESLIE FISHMAN University of Colorado</span> </blockquote>
<blockquote>
<span class="year" id="ctl00_MainContent_PaperItem_YearJournal">In what may prove to be the most significant political and economic document of the twentieth century, Pope John XXIII commemorated the seventieth anniversary of Rerum Novarim with a revolutionary encyclical whose title, taken from the opening words in the Latin text, is Mater et Magistra. Although careful to cast the arguments in the tradition of the previous great social encyclicals, Pope John finally recognizes and embraces the industrial revolution, material progress, and the concomitant reorganization of society which this has brought about, and attempts to place the Church in the forefront of the forces which are guiding that progress. After a description of the text of the new encyclical, this article will examine its major economic policies - the principle of socialization, the principle of subsidiarity, the new definition of private property, the alienation of the individual in the work situation, and most important of all, the imbalances in a market economy which are not self-corrective. The political and religious implications of “Mother and Teacher” will not be discussed here at length although they are at least as important as the economic. To mention only a few: the internal organization of the Church itself could be profoundly affected;’ the ecumenical congress will be immeasurably strengthened by the encyclical and the positive reaction by leading Protestant churchmen;? the European Economic Community, and similar regional organi-zations are given considerable encouragement; the renewed emphasis on missionary work is given a solid economic and political foundation; population problems and their moral implications receive careful examination in the light of development needs of underdeveloped nations; international cooperation is emphasized, with the I.L.O. and the F.A.O. specifically commended for their excellent work and contributions; and finally the relationship between the laity and the Church hierarchy is reconsidered in order to add effectiveness to the Church’s teachings and to bring about as rapidly as possible that “organized order of social affairs where all nations will at last enjoy prosperity, and happiness, and peace.” <br />
*The quotations and page references are from the Paulist Press translation of the en. cyclical, trans. William J. Gibbons, S.J., assisted by “A Committee of Catholic Scholars” (New York: Paulist Press, 1961). See The Catholic World, July 1961, pp. 225-32, and September 1961, pp. 340-44: America, Augusr 19, 1961, pp. 624-25; August 26, 1961, pp. 654-56; and September 16, 1961, pp. 732-33, Commonweal, July 28, 1961, p. 412; and August 25, 1961, pp. 46061. ’See The Christian Century, September 6, 1961, pp. 1023-5; August 30, 1961, pp. 1M7-50; and August 30, 1961, pp. 110546. ’ <br />
<br />
Page 80, emphasis added. The major criticism against the encyclical in the United States has come from the National Review, which was outraged hy the failure of the Pontiff to “speak of the greatest of social injustices in the World, the Communist empire, nor of its universally spreading tentacles that reach to the very heart of the City.” The encyclical refers to the Communists and Socialists only in reviewing and reaffirming Rerum Novarum and Quadrage- <br />
<br />
57 58 LESLIE FISHMAN <br />
The new encyclical, whose suggested subetitle is “Christianity and Social Progress,” opens with a review of the teachings of Leo XI11 (Rerum Novarum), and Pope John’s immediate predecessors, Pius XI (Quadragesirno Anno) and Pius XI1 (Pentacost Broadcast on the fiftieth anniversary of Rerum Novarum). The selection and emphasis of this review is especially significant for its omissions and inclusions. In his interpretation of the basic Rerum Novarum (1891), Pope John stresses that under the industrial order if wages were “to be determined purely mechanically by the laws of the marketplace” and “left to the play of free and unregulated competition,” the workers, “indignant at their lot,” would turn to “remedies worse than the evil to be cured.” Since labor “is not to be thought of in terms of merchandise, but rather according to the laws of justice and equity,” it was entirely proper and wise for Leo XI11 to encourage trade unions and the growth of labor law to ensure that “the dignity of the human being is not violated either in body or spirit.” Pius XI, 40 years after Rerum Novarum, recognized that historical conditions “had profoundly altered,” and this required reinteipretation and reapplication of the principles of the earlier encyclical. He issued the famous encyclical “Reconstructing the Social Order.” Pope John in his own discussion quotes directly from the Quadragesirno Anno: “Unrestricted competition, because of its own inherent tendencies, had ended by almost destroying itself. It had caused a great accumulation of wealth and a corresponding concentration of power in the hands of a few who ‘are frequently not the owners, but only the trustees and directors of invested funds, who administer them at their good pleasure.”’ The unbridled rule of economic power requires reconstructing the social order at three levels: “orderly reorganization of society with smaller professional and economic groups existing in their own right” (e.g., vocational groups, industry councils, the corporate order, profit-sharing plans). At second level, “civil authority should reassume simo Anno. The new document is exceptionally careful not to add fuel to the threat of war, but is calm and positive throughout. The two references to armaments stress the unfortunate waste that these expenditures involve: “Finally, it happens elsewhere that a disproportionate share of the revenue goes toward the building up of national prestige, and that large sums of money are devoted to armaments” (p. 28); “Consequently, the energies of man and the resources of nature are very widely directed by peoples to destruction rather than to the advantage of the human family, and both individual men and entire peoples become so deeply solicitous that they are prevented from undertaking more important works” (p. 64). Thus, those looking to Rome for leadership in a holy crusade were profoundly disappointed to find the crusade directed against misery, hunger, injustice, and “more important works.” The great task confronting us is to create social organization that permits the “recent discoveries of science, technical advances, and economic productivity” to be directed at fulfilling God’s admonition to “Be fruitful and multiply” and end hunger and misery. The grave danger is that the scientific discoveries and technical advances “are transformed into means whereby the human race is led toward ruin and a horrible death” (pp. 62-63). The political emphasis of the encyclical is. therefore, to undermine completely the military aspects of the cold war and place the conflict in its long run perspective of economic, social, political, and moral competition - with considerable emphasis on international cooperation. See the Nutionul Review, July 29, 1961, p. 38, and August 26, 1961, pp. 114-15; and America, September 30, 1961, letter from Frank S. Meyer, Editor, National Review. ‘Pp. 12-15. <br />
<br />
MATER ET MAGISTER 59 <br />
its function and not overlook any of the community’s interests. Finally, on a worldwide scale, government should seek the economic good of all peoples.” The two fundamental points that especially characterize the Encyclical of Pius XI are these: First, one may not take as the ultimate criteria in economic life the interests of individuals or organized groups, nor unrrgulatsd competition, nor excessive power on the part of the wealthy, nor the vain honor of the nation or its desire for domination, nor anything of this sort. Rather, it is necessary that economic undertakings be governed hy justice and charity as the principal laws of social life. The second point that we consider to be basic to the Letter of Pius XI is that both within individual countries and among nations there be established a juridical order, with appropriate public and private institutions, inspired by social justice, so that those who are involved in economic activities are enabled to carry out their tasks in conformity with the common Pope John emphasizes that Pius XII’s Pentecost Radio Broadcast of 1941 affirms that although private property is a natural law right, the use of the property “ ‘to meet the needs of all men, to all equitably, as justice and charity require,’ [is] prior even to the right of private ownership.” This principle, if wisely and properly applied in the field of immigration, will lead to economic benefits being “equalized and diffused widely among peoples.” But the historical conditions have changed so greatly over the past 20 years, since the Pentecost Broadcast, that significant additions and reintefbretations are again required. These changed circumstances are listed under three headings: (1) science, technology and economics; (2) the social field; (3) political affairs. Since the analysis of new historical conditions lies at the heart of the Pontiff’s analysis, it is important to quote this passage in full, and to read it with great care. In the fields of science, technology, and economics, these developments are especially worthy of note: the discovery of atomic energy, employed first for military purposes and later increasingly for peaceful ends; the almost limitless possibilities opened up by chemistry in synthetic products; the growth of automation in the sectors of industry and services; the modernizae tion of agriculture; the nearly complete conquest, especially through radio and television, of the distance separating peoples; the greatly increased speed of all manner of transportation; the initial conquests of outer space. Turning to the social field, the following contemporary trends are evident: development of systems for social insurance; the introduction of social security systems in some more affluent countries; greater awareness among workers, as members of unions, of the principal issues in economic and social life; increased social mobility and a resulting decline in divisions among the classes; greater interest than heretofore in world affairs on the part of those with average education. Meanwhile, if one considers the social and economic advances made in a growing number of countries, he will quickly ‘Pp. 1S19. ‘Pp. 20-21. <br />
<br />
60 LESLIE FISHMAN <br />
discern increasingly pronounced imbalances: first, between agriculture on the one hand and industry and the services on the other; between the more and the less developed regions within countries; and, finally, on a worldwide scale, between countries with differing economic resources and development. Turning now to political affairs, it is evident that there, too, a number of innovations have occurred. Today, in many’ communities, citizens from almost all social strata participate in public life. Public authorities intervene more and more in economic and social affairs. The peoples of Asia and Africa, having set aside colonial systems, now govern themselves according to their own laws and institutions. As the mutual relationships of peoples increase, they become daily more dependent one upon the other. Throughout the world, assemblies and councils have become more common, which, being supranational in character, take into account the interests of all peoples. Such bodies are concerned with economic life, or with social affairs, or with culture and education, or, finally, with the mutual relationships of peoples.’ , To meet challenges and problems stemming from these new historical conditions, the encyclical proposes the crucial new balance in institutions between the principle of subsidiarity and the principle of socialization. The principle of subsidiarity is quoted directly from Quudregesimo Anno as a fundamental principle: “one should not withdraw from individuals and commit to the community what they can accomplish by their own enterprise and industry. [It is] a grave evil . . . to transfer to the larger and higher collectivity functions which can be performed and provided for by lesser and subordinate bodies.’’ But the requirements of new technology and science make it imperative that public authorities intervene “to a greater extent than heretofore . . . to reduce imbalances between economic sectors, regions, and even between ‘different peoples of the world.’ )) What is required is not the depriving or dampening of private initiative - which leads to political tyranny. What is required is that public authorities “intervene in a wide variety of economic affairs . . . [to] adapt institutions, tasks, means, and procedures . . . to the norms of justice, so that everyone in the community can develop and perfect himself. For this, after all, is the end toward which all economic activity of a community is by nature ordered.” What is required is “an appropriate structuring of the human community” where the rules of the game permit individual initiative wherever possible, within the basic setting of balances. However, the key decision lies with the public authorities and not with the individual enterprise or the individual himself. “To decide what is more helpful to the over-all economic situation is not the prerogative of individual productive enterprises, but pertains to the public authorities and those institutions which, established either nationally or among a number of countries, function in various sectors of economic life.”e ’ Pp. 21-22. “P. 24. P. 36. <br />
<br />
MATER ET MAGISTER 61 <br />
Moreover, the crucial balances to be maintained and responsibilities of the public authorities are extremely broad; the encyclical lists them in two categories, those at a national level and those of an international character. At a national level they include: (3) (4) to provide employment for as many workers as possible. to take care lest privileged groups arise even among the workers thcmselves. to maintain a balance between wages and prices. to make accessible the goods and services for a better life to as many persons as possible. to eliminate or keep within bounds the inequalities between different sectors of the economy - that is, between agriculture, industry and services. to balance properly any increases in output with advances in services provided to citizens, especially by public authority. to adjust, as far as posssible, the means of production to the progress of science and technology. to ensure that the advantages of a more humane way of existence not merely subserve the present generation but have regard for future generations as well. And on a world level: (9) the competitive striving of peoples to increase output be free of bad faith. (10) harmony in economic affairs and a friendly and beneficial cooperation be fostered. (1 1) effective aid be given in developing the economically underdeveloped nations. The encyclical moves in two directions to implement these all important balances. First, wherever possible there should be adaptation by the individual enterprise or firm, in line with the principle of subsidiarity. Thus small and medium sized holdings in agriculture should be safeguarded whenever practical. Similarly artisan enterprises and cooperative associations should be stimulated by both the individuals and by the State - with instruction, special tax provisions, credit facilities, social security, and insurance. In addition, the basic challenge of industrialization is to structure a work situation where the individual worker assumes responsibility for his own work and for the enterprise as a whole, and where true and meaningful participation by all workers in decision making is accomplished. The stewardship aspect of capital and property, underlined in the previous encyclicals, is highlighted by still another economic observation that is epecially important and shows great economic insight. We must here call attention to the fact that in many countries today, the economic system is such that large and medium size productive enterprises achieve rapid growth precisely because they finance replacement and plant <br />
<br />
62 LESLIE FISHMAN <br />
expansion from their own revenues. Where this is the case, we believe that such companies should grant to workers some share in the enterprise, especially where they are paid no more than the minimum wage.l0 Coupled with the earlier observations regarding the separation of ownership and managerial control, this constitutes an especially strong case for the social nature of private property, and thus the social use of capital and private property for the social good of all peoples. Also, when the encyclical stresses the trend in developed nations to emphasize professional training rather than property ownership as the source of income, the income coming from ownership and heredity is subordinated to income from education and individual initiative. Having raised these basic questions regarding private property, the encyclical goes on to reaffirm the importance and “natural” source from which private property stems. However, at all times the “private ownership should safeguard the rights of the human person, and at the same time make its necessary contribution to the establishment of right order in society.” And this requires that the private property be widespread in its ownership and be used always in conformance with its “social responsibility.” The three new imbalances stressed by the encyclical are each given special attention - the imbalance of agriculture vis-a-vis the rest of society; the imbalance of regions within a nation; and the imbalance of underdeveloped countries. ‘What is strongly suggested in the encyclical is that the market system leads to an optimal allocation of resources, with its proper concomitant distribution and growth patterns, only when the bargaining and production units are fairly evenly balanced. When a serious imbalance occurs, there are often no forces set in motion to correct the imbalance (no necessary countervailing power), and the unstable equilibrium places the disadvantaged party in an ever worsening position. For example, in the case of the underdeveloped nations, they may, if left to the “natural forces of the marketplace,” become relatively more underdeveloped rather than less. Automatic forces are not always brought into play that might lead to a sound and healthy equilibrium; often the equilibrium is far outside any conception of a just and equitable balance. The encyclical makes it clear that Pope John feels it is the public authorities’ responsibility to watch for such imbalances and encourage individual and voluntary groups to cope with such imbalances. But the call to public authorities to fulfill their obligation by intervention where these imbalances persist, raises the principle of socialization and State intervention to a new level of importance. For example, in the case of the agricultural sector, the Pontiff makes it clear that State authorities should take the initiative with reform policies. To achieve orderly progress in various sectors of economic life, it is absolutely necessary that as regards agricultural matters, public authorities give heed and take action in the following matters: taxes and duties, credit, in- ‘OP. 30. <br />
<br />
MATER ET MAGISTER 63 <br />
surance, prices, the fostering of requisite skills, and, finally improved equipment for rural enterprises.” The encyclical then goes on to spell out the needs in each of the specific areas. For taxation, “public authorities [should] bear in mind that income in a rural economy is both delayed and subject to greater risk. Moreover, there is difficulty in finding capital so as to increase returns.” In the credit field since rural dwellers are not “generally able to pay prevailing market rates . . . the general welfare requires that public authorities not merely make special provision for agricultural financing but also for establishment of banks that provide capital to farmers at reasonable rates of interest.” l2 Similar statements cover the role of the State in providing special crop insurance (in addition to the social security benefits that should apply to all citizens), price protection, farm income, supplementary income in rural areas (through stimulating the location of industries in rural areas), and strengthening the family farm. Recommendations to correct the other two major imbalances - those that exist between regions within a single nation, and the imbalances as between nations - are also singled out, but not with the same detail given to agriculture. These policies always keep in mind the principle of subsidiarity and urge that private citizens and private enterprise do as much of any task as possible; but local, national, and international political bodies must be prepared to intervene, if the voluntary groups are incapable of solving the problems. Of special interest to the United States is the admonition that aid to poorer countries be free of any attempt to dominate them. “Should perchance such attempts be made, this clearly would be but another form of colonialism, which, although disguised in name, merely reflects their earlier but outdated dominion, now abandoned by many countries. When international relations are thus obstructed, the orderly progress of all peoples is endangered.” l3 Finally, the encyclical discusses the relationship between population and economic development. After an excellent summary of the usual course of the birth and death rates in a developing nation, Pope John emphasizes that progress in science and technology “give almost limitless promise’’ for expanding the food supply; and that in any particular region where the population problem appears to be oppressive, solutions should be sought that give first place to the dignity of man and the basic laws of life. In general, what is required for the solution of all the major problems discussed in the encyclical is a realization of the world dimensions of these problems that will require international cooperation for the reconstruction of social relationships guided by truth, justice, and love. The major and revolutionary step taken by Muter et Magistra is the full acceptance of the importance of the material basis of the industrial revolution. It <br />
<br />
P. 46. “P. 46. P. 56. 64 LESLIE’ FISHMAN <br />
Although it is still placed in a subordinate position to matters of the soul and spirit, the material basis is not viewed as a necessary evil that must be adjusted in order that a balance of institutions can be maintained. In earlier encyclicals the end was to preserve the proper role for the family, the church, and the noneconomic institutions that give life its true meaning and its proper dimensions. In previous letters the Church seemed to be venturing forth into the social realm primarily to preserve institutional arrangements where some semblance of balance could be retained. The economic and political institutions of the corporation and the State clearly threaten to inundate the institutions of the family, the Church, and the role of the individual. In the new encyclical the Pope casts for himself an entirely new role - the role of helping the material advance and thus structuring a society that will permit the full development of the individual. The fact that earlier Church teaching kept aloof from embracing the “aberrant Adam Smith” doctrine that gives the marketplace full and unbridled dominance, now permits the Church to turn gracefully and with little difficulty to the State for intervention to maintain key balances within the economy. Although some fear of statism lurks in the principle of subsidiarity, the positive contribution of State intervention as the only effective agency that can cope with many of the world’s most pressing problems, lends a refreshingly positive outlook toward the economy and the future. Cast in this new light the Church sees a new role for itself and the Christian institutions of the western world - that of the mother and teacher (not ruler) of a11 nations, guiding them along a path of peace and economic well-being. Earlier encyclicals were entirely defensive and precautionary in outlook. Muter et Magistra is positive and forward looking. As a letter to the bishops of all nations considerable freedom and latitude are given to individual interpretation and application depending upon the circumstances in each nation - and the variations from Spain to Chile to Canada to Tanganyika to France are enormous. Nevertheless, at long last the Church recognizes and embraces the world-wide nature of the industrial revolution and foresees a new role for itself in aiding and stimulating the regional and international institutions that science and technology make imperative. However, major contradictions and difficulties that arise from the encyclical stem precisely from its attempts to place the Church in the forefront of the material advances in the world. As an institution that bridges generations and centuries, and that deals primarily with eternal verities, the Church has more frequently emphasized permanence and tradition and existing institutional arrangements as contrasted to change and innovations and novel institutional patterns. Thus, in Latin America most reformers view the Church as a major force opposing development and progress. Development inevitably involves the spread of literacy and education, land reforms, novel political realignments, new family relationships, and a lifting of horizons of all types. The decision by <br />
<br />
MATER ET hlAGlSTER 65 <br />
the central Church not to hinder these changes and upheavals, but to aid them positively and stimulate them, is indeed a decision of major magnitude. The coupling in the encyclical of the three new imbalances - agriculture, internal regional development problems, and underdeveloped nations - is a particularly farsighted policy. Massive aid to foreign nations must not precede or be prior to the clearing up of major imbalances within a nation. In addition, these three imbalances (agriculture, regions, and nations) are closely related and are generally in the same problem area. The encyclical places greater importance on the principle of subsidiarity as applied to regions within a nation, but even here the reference to State responsibility is very strong. Obviously, the strain on the principle of subsidiarity and the role of private property is disturbing and must be given much more study and attention. What is at issue is the major contradiction bared by the encyclical. The Church calls upon the leaders of the major power institutions of the western world (and to some degree the Soviet bloc too) to permit - even sponsor and stimulate - change that will bring political, social, economic, and religious institutions more into consonance with progress in science and technology. Since such change often threatens the foundations of the existing institutions, the usual role of the Church has been to thwart, deflect, and even destroy reform movements. This is the problem of permanence and change, and no single encyclical or group of encyclicals will resolve this dilemma. It will be solved, or more correctly, be eased, by the re-examination of the role of religious and political institutions in the light of changing needs. Toward this end, the new encyclical has made a giant contribution. Finally, the encyclical poses the moral and practical dilemma of the meaning of work in an industrialized setting. The alienation of the worker, teacher, artist, mother, and even religious leader from the insistent needs of people and society has given man a purposelessness and lack of structure in life that heretofore only meaningful work has been able to provide. The encyclical harkens back to the earlier encyclicals for a solution: give the worker more responsibility and an ownership share in the production process. With leisure commanding an ever larger number of waking hours, the responsibility-sharing emphasis perhaps should be joined with a re-examination of the nonwork areas of life. In this connection the Church is in a position to analyze and take the lead in probing solutions. Thus it may well be that one of the major contributions that the “Mother and Teacher” of all nations will make will be toward urging a structuring of society that will maintain peace among nations, a proper balancing of economic institutions, and the full development of the individual.</span></blockquote>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div class="chicago left pas brdra citation-copy" id="CHICAGO_text">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1963</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Review of <i>Institutional Economics: Veblen, Commons and Mitchell Reconsidered.</i>. <i>The Economic Journal</i> 73 (292). [Royal Economic Society, Wiley]: 759–62. doi:10.2307/2228206.</blockquote>
<blockquote>
Stable URL: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2228206">http://www.jstor.org/stable/2228206</a></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="chicago left pas brdra citation-copy" id="CHICAGO_text">
Institutional Economics: Veblen, Commons and Mitchell Reconsidered. By C. E. AYRES et al. (Berkeley and Los Angeles, California: University of California Press. (London: Cambridge University Press, 1963. Pp. vi + 183. 32s.) DESPITE the absence of a current school of practitioners and a well-defined body of doctrine, institutional economics continues to reassert itself on the American economic scene. The latest contribution is a series of five lectures given under the auspices of the Institute of Industrial Relations at the University of California at Los Angeles. The first essay provides the historical background; the middle three essays <i>"reconsider"</i> the contributions of Veblen, Commons and Mitchell; the final essay evaluates the contributions of the school to contemporary economics. Professor Joseph Dorfman, whose name has become synonymous with the history of American economic thought, and particularly with institutional economics, once again provides a vivid background summary of the historic roots of institutional economics. This lecture appropriately emphasises the role of the University of California and the western part of the United States in the early development of institutionalism. He highlights the impact made by the early ethnographic studies under the U.S. Geological Survey, through to British and German economic thought and the influence of western women economists. Professor Ayres's essay on the founder of the school, Thorstein Veblen, stresses the reasons for Veblen's rejection of market-place analysis as inadequate for an explanation of the evolution of any society, and particularly our machine civilisation. Although Veblen did not provide a rigorous alternative theory, Professor Ayres argues that history and the direction of current economics have validated Veblen's positive emphases and his major categories: technology, the machine process and the conflict between making things and making money (<i>"industrial and pecuniary institutions"</i>); the <i>"instinct of workmanship"</i>, <i>"idle curiosity"</i> and the place of science in our society; comparative economic development, <i>"the merit of borrowing"</i> and our <i>"imbecile institutions."</i> Veblen's rejection of supply and demand analysis certainly did not stem from a lack of familiarity with price theory. His two articles on <i>"The Price of Wheat"</i> (Journal of Political Economy, 1892) still demonstrate that he was a master craftsman in the use of traditional theory. He rejected the theory because, in Professor Ayr.'s words, <i>"To get significant answers one must ask significant questions"</i> Static price theory failed to do so. Although the founder of the institutional school rejected market theory, John R. Commons, in many ways the most successful practitioner of institutional economics, adopted a diametrically different approach. He sought to redefine the market in broader, more relevant, <i>"institutional"</i> terms so that the analysis would address itself to the trouble spots of the economy. Professor Chamberlain concentrates on this lesser-known aspect of Commons's work, and succeeds in presenting a clear and consistent version of his complex market theory. He starts with Commons's three types of transactions (bargaining, rationing and managerial), then considers human motivations and the key categories developed from law and ethics to explain <i>"the transaction"</i> - the categories of futurity and reasonableness. Commons believed that the evolving <i>"rules of the game"</i> of our institutions should be adapted to contain and forestall acute problems (depressions, labour strife) and to keep them from destroying the fabric of society. Commons turned to the common law for his guide, because he believed juridical institutions have successfully dealt with just this kind of problem — resolution of conflict situations (including evaluation conflicts) through the evolution of reasonable rules. Professor Kuznets, appropriately enough, delivered the lecture on Wesley C. Mitchell, for so many years the guiding spirit of the National Bureau of Economic Research, Emphasising Mitchell's statistical contributions, both as an individual and as a group leader of numerous teams, Professor Kuznets also honours his work in cycles, money and banking, prices, but fails to mention his great influence on economic theory through his economic-thought seminar. These lectures on the history of thought finally appeared as <i>"lecture notes"</i> in 1949, and are listed in the selected bibliographies of the three men (Veblen, Commons, Mitchell) at the close of the volume. It is Professor R. A. Gordon's closing essay that provides the surprise end to the series by characterising Schumpeter as the most successful modern institutional economist. Professor Gordon first establishes seven criteria for admittance to membership in the institutional school, and then reviews current economic theory to compare it with institutional requirements. Professor Gordon concludes that institutionalist would find modern theory most lacking in the highly refined mathematical models, in abstract price theory, and in the abstruse growth and Keynesian models. On the other hand, he feels they would applaud the greater institutional content now found in work on economic development, oligopoly theory, theory of the firm, labour economics and the empirical aspects of income and growth theory. However, the underlying criteria, according to Professor Gordon, should be whether current economists are <i>"asking the really big questions about . . . the changing institutional fabric of society."</i> Aside from Galbraith, Professor Gordon feels there is only one modern "American" economist who qualifies — Joseph Schumpeter. When measured against the seven membership criteria, Schumpeter passes with flying colours.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"Schumpeter was an institutionalist in the same sense as was Marx (although, of course, he disagreed with Marx strongly on both economic and political grounds); that is, he took the entire story of capitalist evolution and possible decline as his province. American institu-tionalists . . . have not been willing to go this far."</blockquote>
Professor Gordon calls on contemporary institutionalists to follow Schumpeter and try to answer these basic questions with the best theoretical tools now available. Although the three essays on the work of the specific men are narrow in scope and limited in their analysis, the first and last essays are provocative and of great interest to all economists. In view of the conclusion of Gordon's lecture, it is appropriate to ask several questions. Should the congruence of modern theory to institutional economics be judged by the scope of the questions asked, or by the amount of their descriptive (empirical, <i>"institutional"</i>) content, or are these the same? Can one consider institutional economics apart from economic history (and perhaps sociological and anthropological history)? Is the institutional economist a kind of critic-theorist to the orthodox theorist (in all societies), and if so, how can orthodox theorists make better use of today's critics than was made of Veblen? Finally, what is likely to be the impact on economic theory of a technologically tight-knit <i>"one world,"</i> but with individual national economies based on vastly different economic institutions?</div>
LESLIE FISHMAN University of Colorado.</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1965</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Quoted as someone in the audience asking a question, in <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3g1fCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA326&lpg=PA326&dq=%22Leslie+Fishman%22+economics&source=bl&ots=GyJg9ce0eW&sig=8S36WsrxFYV1wpvR0-CV_6uDMQA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibza3enrvKAhWDPRoKHSfJD3kQ6AEINzAG#v=onepage&q=%22Leslie%20Fishman%22&f=false">a book partly available free on Google</a>.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
--<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7m7oj7HHsU0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false">Joan Robinson and the Americans</a> </span></h3>
Fishman is quoted as a source that she accepted an invite to Colorado Uni in 1959. - <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7m7oj7HHsU0C&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=Keele+economics+fishman&source=bl&ots=bI5QTJxCE4&sig=LGKGI3I7k80fxdJ0ZRKIRpriBGA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIwZu8jKDPAhWLLcAKHWuUCcQ4FBDoAQhSMAk#v=onepage&q=Leslie%20Fishman&f=false">page 173</a> - and again <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7m7oj7HHsU0C&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=Keele+economics+fishman&source=bl&ots=bI5QTJxCE4&sig=LGKGI3I7k80fxdJ0ZRKIRpriBGA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIwZu8jKDPAhWLLcAKHWuUCcQ4FBDoAQhSMAk#v=onepage&q=Leslie%20Fishman&f=false">page 181</a> with a quote by letter: "it was a glorious week and the staff and postgraduate students who attended were suitable thrilled. My most vivid recollections involve the enthusiasm she showed for the rockies and surroundings, as well as the frugal but enjoyable and nutricious vegetarian diet that she followed, laced with an appreciation of good whisky". <br />
<br />
A glance at the free pages of this google book gives an idea of what the people who wrote 1960s textbooks were like - how they knew of each other and occasionally met other men in the business - not women - before quoting each others' journal articles. <br />
<br />
Joan Robinson remarks how many more of them there are than there were in the 1930s.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
-- </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Civil Rights: My Participation in the Last Day of the Selma-Montgomery March <a href="http://www.crmvet.org/vet/wolfej.htm">Rev. Dr. Janet E. Wolfe</a> Montgomery AL,</span></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i><span style="font-size: small;">March 25, 1965 [Original letter: March 29, 1965, revised August 21, 2014]</span></i></div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
With the entire nation, we in Boulder, Colorado, were shocked and sickened by the brutal attack on Negro marchers in Selma, Alabama, March 7, 1965. The following Sunday a group of men from Boulder, including the Rev. Wally Toevs, Presbyterian university pastor at the University of Colorado, Roy Mersky, law librarian, Phil Danielson, CU regent, Leslie Fishman, economics professor, and Willard Conrow, active layperson from First Presbyterian Church, Boulder, went to Selma, hoping to participate in a subsequent march. They were present in Montgomery on March 16, and had received permission to observe the demonstration at the municipal buildings. They became involved in the resulting meele when mounted possemen attacked. The possemen were composed largely of "rednecks" hurriedly deputized for the occasion, wearing cowboy hats and wielding canes and clubs on the non-violent demonstrators. The control that Martin Luther King and his aides have over these demonstrations is tenuous, but it is a marvelous example of nonviolent resistance. The student demonstrators either hold hands and sing, or, if the attack is especially vicious, they cover their heads and crouch. They do not move unless the leader so directs. The Boulder men, although they were on the opposite side of the street, became involved in the attack. None was injured. Three horsemen would club a demonstrator to the ground. Other demonstrators would fall on the injured one to prevent more clubbing. A Japanese-American student from Pennsylvania who was injured was standing near Rev. Wally Toevs. He was clubbed down and then dragged unconscious down the sidewalk by the feet with his head bumping on the walk. After this attack, the demonstrators were driven about six blocks back into the Negro section of town. A Montgomery motorcycle policeman charged into the crowd and ran over a number of people. Again, the control of the demonstration was superb. The policeman was not injured in spite of the anger of the crowd. When we received word of this in Boulder, we sent a number of telegrams to congressmen recommending federalization of troops.<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span class="st" style="font-size: x-large;">CU Professors Answer 'Red - Tinge'</span></h3>
<span class="st">Denver post October 21st - text not available free - with <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Higman">Howard Higman</a></span></blockquote>
<div class="getty embed image" style="background-color: white; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 11px; max-width: 594px; width: 100%;">
<div style="margin: 0; padding: 0; text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/162033196" style="border: none; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">Embed from Getty Images</a></div>
<div style="height: 0; overflow: hidden; padding: 65.488215% 0 0 0; position: relative; width: 100%;">
<iframe frameborder="0" height="389" scrolling="no" src="//embed.gettyimages.com/embed/162033196?et=9u6o7y78SZRL3R6o6xvokA&viewMoreLink=off&sig=2vqtxi7j_st_nULYAQTu3DFMxBvdw9ixayD3gWBKKPM=&caption=true" style="display: inline-block; height: 100%; left: 0; margin: 0; position: absolute; top: 0; width: 100%;" width="594"></iframe></div>
<div style="margin: 0;">
</div>
</div>
<div class="getty embed image" style="background-color: white; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 11px; max-width: 425px; width: 100%;">
<div style="margin: 0; padding: 0; text-align: left;">
<a href="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/162033207" style="border: none; color: #a7a7a7; display: inline-block; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">Embed from Getty Images</a></div>
<div style="height: 0; overflow: hidden; padding: 139.764706% 0 0 0; position: relative; width: 100%;">
<iframe frameborder="0" height="594" scrolling="no" src="//embed.gettyimages.com/embed/162033207?et=zonLKB86SRR_FtniFbGEqw&viewMoreLink=off&sig=ubN_dZaN2KybfFcAOs7fuQPPQ9rsJYym--SzXvZCWog=&caption=true" style="display: inline-block; height: 100%; left: 0; margin: 0; position: absolute; top: 0; width: 100%;" width="425"></iframe></div>
<div style="margin: 0;">
</div>
</div>
At a Senate hearing, Fishman is in the tweed jacket, looking older than 43. The Denver Post article - not yet found - is headed "<span class="st"><i>OCT 21 1965</i>; <i>CU Professors Answer</i> '<i>Red</i> - <i>Tinge</i>'."</span> <a href="http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=6090213&PIpi=826405">A note on Find a Grave for Howard Higman</a> has a similar photo. It says "They were responding to the U.S. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Subcommittee_on_Internal_Security">Senate Internal Security Subcommittee</a> assertion of communist influence on teach-ins on the Vietnam war. That charge was shortly withdrawn by Senator Thomas Dodd of Connecticut." It doesn't help that Les Fishman shares a surname with <a href="http://peoplesworld.org/al-fishman-michigan-peace-and-justice-champion-dies-at-8/">Al Fishman</a> who has similar interests and particularly annoys people like Senate committee members. If the committee minutes are online they might be linked here: <a href="http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/233.html#233.25">http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/233.html#233.25</a> <a href="http://scarc.library.oregonstate.edu/coll/pauling/peace/video/1996v.4-siss.html">There's a video of an earlier committee held in 1960</a>. <b><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
1966</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Fisman's name was top of the list - "project director" - to use University of Chicago's Fortran software on a government contract to predict the labour market, using a database held on punched cards that could be read in different ways by future researchers. Fishman wasn't phsyically in the USA during a lot of the project; there were other researchers and a team Colorado's statistics lab using the mechanical computers, including an old colleague from Idaho. <br />
But Fishman's name was at the top of the list. <a href="http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED017641.pdf">http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED017641.pdf</a> Fishman was lucky with his colleages. Curt Eaton still writes text books on applied microeconomics today, has done several teaching jobs and published a briefcase full of research. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
While at Colorado, Fishman invited Joan Robinson, the economist, to speak at World Affairs Week. He had a record of dealing with larger than life characters like trades union leaders. Her point of view is given in a book called <i>Joan Robinson and the Americans</i> by Marjorie Shepherd Turner. Long free snippets of a page or two are available free on Google Books, describing how US academics couldn't get used to a female colleague and tried inviting her to a strip club as a joke, and how she tended to tell-off academics who asked her. The same book mentions an invite from a a student rep at Stamford - <i><br />
</i><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"interested in responding to the complaints of the students that their curriculum needs were not being met by the university itself; that they should have a broader picture of the world than they were getting from the university itself"</i> which seemed <i>"conservative and homogeneous"</i> to students. <i>"Students felt a need for someone to tell them they were not idiots if they questioned received learning"</i>. </blockquote>
That's the male students, presumably; the female ones must have had it worse. The source and some of the quote is footnoted to Tobin (1973 p 100-103) but I haven't tracked down the book. Meanwhile, Joan Robinson lived cheaply among the students at Stamford and made friends with one or two of them, preferring their company to the staff.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.unige.ch/ses/sococ/cl///////bib/soft/spss.history.html">http://www.unige.ch/ses/sococ/cl///////bib/soft/spss.history.html</a> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/19980212012028/http://www.spss.com/corpinfo/history.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/19980212012028/http://www.spss.com/corpinfo/history.htm</a></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1966</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i>In post-war America his political commitment wrecked any chances he had of reaching academic stardom in the United States once McCarthyism took root so he quit America to bring his family to Britain after winning a Ford Foundation fellowship to work in the economics department of Cambridge, where his mentor colleague was Professor Nicholas Kaldor. Later Fishman moved on to Keele University where he was appointed the first Chair in Economics. It was under his umbrella of inspiration that his daughter Nina began her economic and history studies at Sussex University. - <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-nina-fishman-dynamic-labour-and-social-historian-best-known-for-her-work-on-trade-unions-1879739.html">Obituary of Nina Fishman in The Independant</a></i> Envelope of letters to and from Nicholas Kaldor of Kings College Cambridge, built-up on a project sponsored by the Ford Foundation during 1966-7. Fishman did not return to work in Colorado, although his name is still top of the list of authors on a 1968 publication there. <a href="http://janus.lib.cam.ac.uk/db/node.xsp?id=EAD%2FGBR%2F0272%2FPP%2FNK%2F3%2F64">http://janus.lib.cam.ac.uk/db/node.xsp?id=EAD%2FGBR%2F0272%2FPP%2FNK%2F3%2F64</a> <a href="http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/ff66186e-f391-455e-8ccd-c10ca5c423de">http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/ff66186e-f391-455e-8ccd-c10ca5c423de</a></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<i>The family moved to Britain permanently in 1967. Leslie taught at Warwick University and then became a professor at Keele University, in Staffordshire - Obituary of Nina Fishman in The Guardian</i> <i>The family finally came to Britain in 1967 by which time Nina was already doing an economics degree at Sussex University. Political activism got in the way of examination success and, perhaps, economics proved not to be the one best path to revolutionary enlightenment that many of us thought it was at the time. Nina moved on though she never lost her respect for economics as a discipline. - <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20101011070017/http://www.sslh.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=36">Obituary of Nina Fishman at the Society for Study of Labour History</a></i></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1967</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;">The Economics of Vietnam</span></h3>
<i><br /><a href="http://ianlouisharris.com/">http://ianlouisharris.com</a>/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/vietnampaper-1.pdf<br /><br />Some of the first paragraphs (the ones that work best on online OCR) are transcribed here very roughly for editing later, so you'd do better reading the version on the IanLouis Harris blog. In fact it looks as though the Optical Character Recgonition system isn't working very well just at the moment; I will come back to it.</i>The Economics of Vietnam By Leslie Fishman <br />
<br />
War is seldom rational and, from an economic point of view, calculations of costs and, benefits seldom make sense to direct participants. But there are different kinds of wars and some are more open to economic analysis than others.<br />
<br />
An all-out war including homeland territory tends to be particularly irrational, from an economic point of view. The burdens are enormous, unevenly distributed, and often appear senseless, in retrospect. At the same time, some individuals and companies may benefit greatly from war. The economic rules of the market generally continue to be followed in war, although in modificed form; with victory (or defeat) all economic rules are temporally suspended, and to the victor go the spoils (or as many of them as he wishes, depending on how he wishes to structure the post-war world),<br />
<br />
A brush-fire war, from the point of view of a major power, is a different matter. The domestic economy is only slightly effected; economic calculations are possible and desirable. The personal burdens, of life and limb, will still be unevenly distributed among the total population, although in recent years most major powers have tended to use only professional soldiers and volunteers to police their empires (the United States is the exception).<br />
<br />
Under Secretary MacNamara, the Department of Defense has applied the calculus of the marketplace to tbe business of defense and war. Some of the finest market economists (generally from the Chicago School) have adapted profit maximizing techniques (referred to as cost effective or cost/benefit analysis when applied to public works) with considerable success. Generally speaking, these new techniques permit government agencies to try to achieve their objectives with minimum cost.<br />
<br />
The war in Vietnam began as a limited Brush-Fire operation, well suited to economic calculation, and has progressed to a point where it verges on an all-out effort. A cost-benefit analysis applied to Vietnam is appropriate before the conflict moves into the economically irrational sphere.<br />
<br />
After World War II, the French, attempting to re-assert their colonial rule, (against President Roosavelt's better judgement), quickly found themselves over-committed economically. Secretaries of State Acheson and Dulles, after the Korean experience, supported the French economically, when France indicated that the economic burden was too great to continue fighting. The total United States aid to France in Vietnam grew rapidly from $150 million a year in 1950 to over $1 billion in the fiscal year of 1954, when the United States was underwriting 80% of the cost of the war. The Marshall Plan aid to France just about compensated here for other "Empire" costs, but this meant that France derived little net benefit from other Marshall aid.<br />
<br />
Since the time when the United States took over primary responsibility for Vietnam, the economic and military aid has been substantial.<br />
<br />
US ECONOMIC AID TO THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE GOVERNMENT, 1955-1965<br />
(Including Public Law 480 aid, which excludes US uses)<br />
<br />
US Fiscal Year<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1955 $325.8 million<br />1956 216.3<br />1957 281.1<br />1958 192.1<br />1959 207.1<br />1960 180.5<br />1961 144.6<br />1962 143.2<br />1963 197.5<br />1964 230.3<br /><u>1965 278.5 </u><br /><u> $2,397.1 million</u></span><br />
<br />
(Source: US House of Representatives <u>Supplemental Foreign Assistance Authorisation</u> Fiscal Year 1966, 89th Congress, 2nd Session (Washington, 1966) quoted by Kahin and Lewis, <u>The US in Vietnam</u>, New York, p 73)<br />
<br />
The effect of economic aid was summed-by an economist on the Michagan State University Programme as follows:<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"The most important and controversial part of the economic aid has been the 80% which entered Vietnam through the Commercial Import Program. About two thirds of the commercial imports under American aid in 1955 consisted of consumer goods, a reflection of the strong relief function which the program served. In 1960 consumer goods constituted only a third of the American-aided imports, the rest consisting of industrial equipment and machinery (one half) and raw materials, fuels, and what the American aid mission calls "other essentials".</blockquote>
<br />
Although most Vietnamese have benefited from consumer imports, the greatest beneficiaries have been urban dwellers, especially the small middle and upper classes. Thus, American aid has functioned to accentuate the distinction between the well-off and the masses. It has also lead to the Vietnamese Government depending on a foreign power instead of its own people for its own support"<br />
<br />
Source: Robert Scigliano <u>South Vietnam</u>, New York, 1963, 1964, pp124-126<br />
<br />
In addition to this substantial economic aid, massive military aid has gone to South Vietnam. Scigliano writes "American aid to Vietnam in the past has, to use Senator J.W.Fulbright's words, 'been too heavily weighted on the military side'. Not only has the lion's share been used to support Vietnam's military budget, but most of the rest has gone on projects closely connected to military security, like highway construction". (p.127. The quote from Senator Fulbright is from <u>Congressional Record</u>, June 29th, 1961, p11704)<br />
<br />
It does not seem unreasonable to estimate the overall military and economic assitance from the United States to South Vietnam from 1955 to 1965 at roughly $5 billion which, when taken with the $2 billion extended during the French occupation, adds up to a total of $7 billion up until the major build-up of the war in 1965,<br />
<br />
The current costs of the Vietnam conflict can be calculated in two main ways. First, the way that the Government has been applying "incremental" costs - just those costs that are additional to the ongoing DOD expenses. Second, the "Total Costs" approach - pro rata costs plus an incremental share of all the other DOD costs. For example the Seventh Fleet would have the usual ongoing costs of salaries and ship maintenance regardless of whether there is any war going-on in Vietnam. The "incremental" cost calculation would add only the additional costs specifically attributable to war - additional ammunition, aircraft losses, special pay allowances, etc. The "incremental" cost calculation is justified only if one assumes that the ships of the Seventh Fleet are not fully occupied in Vietnam, but are also available for duty elsewhere. In contrast the "total cost" approach would attribute the entire Seventh Fleet's cost, plus additional training of personel in the United States, and elsewhere, to the Vietnam conflict. The "Total Cost" approach assumes that the tying-up of those ships of the Seventh Fleet in the Vietnam situation makes them unavailable for use elsewhere. The crisis in the Middle East gave considerable support to the "Full Cost" method. <u>Business Week</u> of May 27th reported in its Economic Outlook:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The United States would be hard put to augment its navel forces in the Middle East by any significant amount. Most vessels are already committed to the Vietnam war, one way of another. (p45) </blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
For Fiscal 1967, total defense spending will run at least $71 billion; for fiscal 1968, it is estimated at over $80 billion. Using the incremental approach, Vietnam's cost to the United States is currently $25 billion; using the total approach, the cost increases to about $40 billion. If the Vietnam build-up is assumed to be a straight line, then the cost for fiscal 1966 is about $10 billion (incremental) and $20 billion (total). Through 1967, the cost of the entire United States involvement in Vietnam since 1950 comes to between $37 billion (incremental) and $67 billion (total).<br />
<br />
Vietnam Costs to the United States, 1950-1967<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">Incremental Total<br />1950-<br />1965 7 7<br />1966 10 20<br /><u>1967 20 40 <br /> $37 $67 billion</u></span><br />
<br />
These figures considerably under-estimate the true cost of Vietnam to the United States. Reconstruction costs are not included. The Veterain's costs are also ommitted, as are the interest costs on the new Federal debt. Then, too, the costs of those serving in the armed forces is underestimated, since their "cost" is their present salary, and not the civilian salary and future earnings they are foregoing (particularly for those who do not return or return wounded and maimed). In addition, the Great Society program involving poverty, core cities, air and water pollution, education, crime, health and beutification, are all being slowed-down and postponed. The costs of these programs increase the longer they are postponed, because the problems are cumulatively worsening. Still another reason the money costs underestimate the true costs is that the war has become the pre-occupation of many people in science, research and development, in government, on campuses, and among those eligible for military service. Bitter acrimony and hostility has replaced "reasoning together"; the politics of alienation has replaced the politics of "consensus". Productive and constructive preparation for careers, interest, and inspiration to solve scientific and social problems have been generally been replaced by lives punctuated by frustration and disillusionment. Finally, there are two additional costs of Vietnam that require further exploration - our worsening balance of payments situation and distortions and strains on our economy.<br />
<br />
After World War II the Dollar replaced the Pound Sterling as the basic currency of world trade and world capital movements. (This transition began as far back as World War 1 when the British were forced to weaken seriously their international position by liquidating a substantial proportion of their overseas investment to help pay for the war. In 1945 the United States opposed Lord Keynes' initiative to establish a world currency. Instead the dollar became the world's central currency, buttressed by the pound, the international monetary fund, and other free market international monetary institutions such as the BIS - Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland). The benefits to the United States of being the Worlds' banker have been considerable, and are growing, but so are the responsibilities. Vietnam has placed unusual strains on this position and has added "costs" that may be incalculable and are indeed most serious<br />
<br />
The basis for all world currencies remains gold. Gold fulfills two major functions - it acts as the reserve for national currencies and it can be used to settle international debts and transfers. As the new supplemental international currency - the American dollar - has served these functions, in most instances, because there isn't enough gold in the world to do the job. Total gold reserves for all central banks and governments come to about $44 billion. Gold production throughout the world is estimated at about $1½ billion a year, but in recent years almost all that production has gone into private holdings and has not increased official gold reserves. The United States, with $13 billion in gold, has about 30% of the gold reserves of the world, and has relatively more gold than any other nation. However, the uses of gold (to under-pin national currencies and settle international trade imbalances) have grown so much faster than the gold supply, that the world currency which Keynes tried to promote in 1945 is long overdue.<br />
<br />
For example, the United States national money supply now totals around $175 billion, and is increasing each year at roughly 3%. Total United States foreign trade (goods and services) is about $40 billion and is increasing at a rate close to that of the expansion of total world trade - about 7%. All industrialized nation's currencies are expanding rapidly, as is their world trade. Yet the official gold reserves on which all of this us ulitmately based, at present, are barely increasing. This growing disparity between gold reserves, on the one hand, and currencies and world trade, on the other hand, is no cause for alarm as long as things proceed smoothly. The gold is, practically speaking, of no use to anyone. It simply serves as a basis for the many rules which govern international trade and currencies. We have never had sufficient gold to satisfy all claimants, if they had insisited on actual gold payments; however, nobody wants gold for its intrinic use (aside from dentists and jewellers that is) . Gold is symbolic and acts as a guide to "keep us honest", in terms of the rules for international money. It is another example of the bank being sound as long as no one starts a run on the bank. But Vietnam brings into serious question the wisdom, stability, and dependibility of the world's banker - the United States. Needless to say, the position of the World's banker has usually gone to the most powerful nation militarily and economically. Vietnam also calls into question the overwhelmingly powerful United States position on these two counts, an observation which certainly requires expansion.<br />
<br />
The main problems likely to confront the world's bankers in the coming decades are:<br />
1) Re-integration of the communist nations into world trade and the world economy<br />
2) Provision of adequate lines of credit (and good relations) to developing nations<br />
3) Provision of adequate and reasonable adjustment room to permit continence of the exceptionally high rates of economic growth enjoyed by the industrialized nations in post World War II .<br />
The actions of the United States in Vietnam did not give convincing evidence that the World's leading banker nation is able to cope with these three major problems, without precipitating a third world war, which would completely destroy the world's economy, if not life itself. Stability and wisdom, the two attributes now required of good bankers, appear to be in short supply in the United States, at least temporarily. Thus, recent moves, which would follow in Lord Keynes' footsteps towards a new world money system, have met with considerable foot-dragging. If the decision-making apparatus of the United States permits (even encourages?) entanglements of the Vietnam type, then the world money machinery requires a new look. Our partners will in insist on (and deserve) more important roles, relative to the United States role.<br />
<br />
The immediate occasion for this re-examination is the United States' balance of payments crisis. When a banker lives beyond his means, depositors grow restless. The United States has lived beyond its means for more than a decade. At first this was considered healthy, because our deficits provided the European (and Japanese) economies with surpluses. They gained "reserves" (gold and dollar balances and international financial deposits) at our expense. The United States had far too much reserve and they had far too little. However, by the time President Kennedy was elected, it was generally agreed by the world banking community that the United States' deficit balances required attention and correction. Kennedy drew-up and implemented a comprehensive program to permit the United States to earn more currencies (and use less) without much disturbance of the United States world economic position.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
This is near the end of page 7... from here-on it's probably easier to read the scan</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<i><br />w4r iN aeldom rational and from an econocdc point of view, calcu-<br />MUG= of costs end benefits seldom oekc much sense to direct partici-pant!. }Sot there are different kinds of :airs =a some are more open to acenOmitc analysis then others, An all-out war involving homeland territory tends to be particularly irretional,from ell economic point of view. The burdens. are enoreoce, unevenly distributed, and often appear nerveless, in retrospect. At the same time, some individuals and companies may benefit greatly from war. The economic rules of the market generally continue to be followed during war, although in modified farm; with victory (or defeat), all economic rules are temporarily suspended and to the victor go the spoils <or am cony of them ma he wishei. depending on how he wishes to structuv. the /rout-war world). 1 brush-lire war, from the point of view of n major power, In a different matter. The domestic economy in only slightly effected; cconomde calculations era possible and desirable. The personal burdens, of life and limbs will Still be unevenly distributed among the total popnlation. Although in MIMIC yearn mast major powers have tended to une only profeaaional soldiers and volunteers to police their emirea. <The United States in the exception.) Under Secretary MacNamara, the Department of Tiefense hen applied the calculus of the marketplace to the business of defense and war. <br /><br />2<br /><br />:sone of tilt finest toiket economists (generally from th. Chicago' lichool) havA Ddsprod profit maximizing t. thniquea (referred to, as coat efinctive ot cost benefit analyses ohen applied to public %forks) with considerable <br /><br />Generally speaking, those' pew techalques permit govaramant <br />Agencies to try to edam's their objectives through minimum wet. Tile win ta Vietnam began as a limited brush fire OpetitiOft Well Hated to economic coital tion and has progressed to the point sera it verges on an nil-nut effort. A comt-benefit analysis applied to Vietnam is appropriate before the conflict Ilona ins the eamitailly irrational sphere. After Worinhur the French, ntrempti b, to te Assert r <br />Colonial role (against Preside t Root <br />themselves avareemomigned <br /><br /><br />les bettor judismont quickly <br />ally. Secretariat of State <br />Acheson and Dulles after the Kowa esperipeatcp <br />ppotted the French <br />aconomdke ity *Whim France indicated the finsactst burden mos too great <br />to coati e fighting. MB tett! United States aid to Free is vistas. <br />vow rapidly from, .$150 mina= pet year La 1950 to over n <br />the Mena year of 1954 when the United States was underwriting 80 <br />per cent of the cost of the vats The Hsr*hall Plan Mid to Prance jam at compensated her for her other empire vita* but this meant that franca derived littio net benefit tram the Marshall sid. Since the this to the Halted States took over primary respoosibine, <br /><br />lity for Vietnam, the ecoconic mind <br /><br />Mary aid hai beta sthatantitl. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Quoted in Norman Flynn's <a href="http://www.normanflynn.me.uk/econwar.pdf">The economics of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Global War on Terror</a>, - lecture given in October 2008 alongside the start of the Leslie and Eleanor Fishman Bursary, with a footnote of thanks to Fishman's son in law - Phil McManus - so presumably Fishman couldn't find anyone mainstream to publish this - none of the journals that are now on Jstor for example.<br />
It would have built on the 1962 article "a note on disarmament and effective demand"</i><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span></span></span></span></span> In June 1967, Les Fishman wrote a paper called <i>The Economics of Vietnam</i>. He calculated the costs to the federal government of supporting the French in Indochina from 1955-1965 and then of pursuing the war from 1965 to the time of writing. He analysed the economics and impact of the spending on the war: the short-term ‘Cost-benefit’ effects;; the multiplier effects (or lack of them) of military spending; the effect on the balance of payments; the changes in cross-border investment to and from the US and the impact on the US’s reserves and therefore its ability to continue to act as the world’s banker. <br />
<br />
It is a wide-ranging paper, connecting the war with the US role in the world economy, as well as the domestic economy. It concludes that the investment in containing communism through the Marshall Plan and post-war military deployments, maintaining ‘peaceful coexistence’ with the Soviet Union had a high return, keeping the Soviet Union at bay for relatively small outlays. The return on the investment in Vietnam, confronting China militarily through South East Asia was likely to be low. On the short-term return, he made the startling point that the total economic investment by US citizens in South East Asia stood at the time at $600 million, equivalent to the cost of 6 days of the Vietnam war. At the same time the distortion of the federal budget towards the war effort reduced spending on social programmes and therefore contributed to reduced social stability at home.<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">---<br />
<br />
quoted asking questions to a US car manufacturer as part of </span></span></span></span></div>
<div data-canvas-width="661.2121212121211" style="left: 103.685px; text-align: left; top: 170.872px; transform: scaleX(1.00184);">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED017733.pdf">OCCUPATIONAL EDUCATION-4LANNING AND PROGRAMMING, VOLUME ONE. BY... MOTZ, ARNOLD STANFORD RESEARCH INST., MENLO PARK, CALIF.PUB DATESEP 67</a></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1968</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b>Accession Number :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>AD0681171<br />
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Title : <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b706">REEMPLOYMENT EXPERIENCES OF DEFENSE WORKERS</a>,</h2>
</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Corporate Author :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>COLORADO UNIV AT BOULDER</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Personal Author(s) :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fishman, Leslie ; Allen, Jay ; Bunger, Byron ; Eaton, Curt</div>
<div align="left" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Report Date :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>DEC 1968</div>
<div align="left" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Pagination or Media Count :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>311</div>
<div align="left" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Abstract :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>The purpose of the study is to compare, integrate and analyze the results of four surveys of the reemployment experiences of workers laid off at three defense plants. The 14,000 returned questionnaires provide a wealth of empirical information on layoff experiences of defense workers and, more generally, on the labor market. One of the main purposes of the study is to make this information available to those interested in research of the employment process. To this end, a common card was designed to accept information from the surveys and to be used for further research. (Author)</div>
<div align="left" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Descriptors :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b> *MANPOWER, SOURCES, IMPACT, MATHEMATICAL PREDICTION, TABLES (DATA), MILITARY PROCUREMENT, TRANSFORMATIONS, DISARMAMENT, <span style="color: red;">PUNCHED CARDS</span>, QUESTIONNAIRES, INDUSTRIAL PLANTS, CLASSIFICATION, EMPLOYMENT, REGRESSION ANALYSIS</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Subject Categories :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Personnel Management and Labor Relations</div>
<div align="left" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; color: black; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px;">
<b>Distribution Statement :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE One section is quoted the same year "The local adjustments to reductions in defense employment may have an important effect on the national economy. Economist Leslie Fishman goes so far as to say that “micro” market adjustments may be decisive in maintaining employment because the balance-of-payments problem would inhibit fiscal policies that create demand in the national market. Fishman suggested that demobilization would offer an opportunity for “giant strides” in information channeling and employment decision theory that “could lead not only to smooth and successful transitions, but also to a new era in the operation of the labor markets.” He asserted that “Improved operation of the labor market could easily reduce the unemployment rate to levels long familiar to the West German economy, increase efficiency and productivity, and thus become a strong force against inflation.”<a class="footnotelink" href="http://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1969092400#NOTE[22]" id="REF[22]" name="REF[22]"><img alt="Footnote 22" border="0" src="https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/images/footnotes/footnote22.gif" /></a></div>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1969</span></b> <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>Transportation Research, Volume 3, number 4, 1969. Pergamon Press (now Elsevier) Transport article from Warwick University with <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3AWabe%2C+J.+Stuart.&dblist=638&fq=ap%3A%22wabe%2C+j+stuart%22+%3E+ap%3A%22wabe%2C+j+stuart%22&qt=facet_ap%3A">J Stewart Wabe</a> aka <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3AWabe%2C+J.+Stuart.&dblist=638&fq=ap%3A%22wabe%2C+j+stuart%22+%3E+ap%3A%22wabe%2C+j+stuart%22+%3E+ap%3A%22wabe+j+stuart%22&qt=facet_ap%3A">Wabe, J Stewart</a> There is an advert for it in Economic Journal's "back matter" from December that year which shows in searchers of JStor on Google Scholar. Transpn Res. Vol. 3, pp. 429-442. Pergamon Press 1969. Printed in Great Britain<br />
<b>update: <br />
d = denarii or old pence, worth a twelfth of a shilling. <br />
p = new pence post 1971, worth a fifth of a shilling or a hundredth of a pound. <br />
d = 0<span class="cwcot" id="cwos">.41666666666</span> p. <br />
Currency units have not changed in any other way.<br />
This article has been quoted in The Guardian or such on the theme of "who were Fishman and Wabe - so far ahead of their time?". <br />
<a href="https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?safe=off&biw=1280&bih=867&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=7455025579010565521">Google citations finds several academic articles too</a><br />
<a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&biw=1280&bih=867&q=Fishman+Wabe+%22restructuring+the+form+of+car+ownership%22&oq=Fishman+Wabe+%22restructuring+the+form+of+car+ownership%22&gs_l=serp.12...7986.9278.0.12220.2.2.0.0.0.0.116.178.1j1.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.1.114...30i10k1.crsKmXbyLiM">This search finds 151 citations</a> </b></i></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
(<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/07/car-servicing-for-less-than-cost-price.html">Car Hire South West London</a> and thoughts on servicing for less than cost price) </blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;">RESTRUCTURING THE FORM OF CAR OWNERSHIP</span></h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
A PROPOSED SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM OF THE MOTOR CAR IN THE UNITED KINGDOM LESLIE FISHMAN University of Keele and J. STUART WABE University of Warwick (Received 25 January 1969; in revised form 21 July 1969) 1. THE NEED FOR A NEW FORM OF CAR OWNERSHIP<br />
<br />
THE PROBLE<span style="font-size: small;">M of the motor car, especially in urban areas, is becoming more and more serious. The Buchanan Report (Ministry of Transport, 1963, p. 9) summarises the urban traffic problem as "jams, frustrati</span>ons, parking difficulties, confusion, noise and accidents". The root cause of the United Kingdom difficulties undoubtedly lies in the rapid growth of car ownership; the number of cars in use is growing at a compound rate of some 8 per cent per annum and the current level of car ownership is approximately 0.20 cars per person. What will happen to car ownership in the future has been the subject of some controversy. All writers are agreed that it will increase but nobody, for obvious reasons, can be sure of the saturation level. The general consensus is that we can at least expect to reach the current U.S.A. level of just over 0.40 cars per person by 1990 and Mogridge (1967) has suggested an ultimate saturation level of 0.66 cars per person. However, any prediction must be subject to a considerable amount of uncertainty. For example, it will depend on the policy adopted towards public transport and parking as well as the amount of congestion and the related aspect of the size of the investment programme in road improvements. In fact the main proposal of this paper is a scheme which could keep the saturation level well below 0.40 cars per person, while at the same time extending the use of the motor car. It is not necessarily the increasing car ownership which is causing concern but the associated trend in car use. Passenger mileage by private car is highly correlated with the number of licensed cars and private transport is rapidly becoming the dominant mode of transport. In 1957 private transport accounted for 56.6 per cent of all road passenger miles and 46.6 per cent of road and rail passenger miles. The corresponding figures in 1966 had increased to 80.0 per cent and 76.2 per cent. During the decade public transport experienced considerable problems in remaining profitable. The loss of passengers had been met by increasing fares and reductions in the level of service both of which resulted in further reductions in the level of use. We can also be certain that, as car ownership increases, the use of public transport will continue to decline. A recent study by Schenker and Wilson (1967) on the use of public transport in the U.S.A. has quantified this aspect of increasing car ownership. They showed that, in major metropolitan areas, the level of car ownership exhibited a highly significant negative correlation with the level of public transport use. <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
430 Lesue Fishman and J Stuart Wabe</div>
<br />
The problem posed by increasing car ownership and use has been tackled by increasing investment in new roads and road improvements and by traffic management schemes, while, for the future, it looks as if rationing road space by road pricing will become important. Increased investment has been spent mainly on motorways which only help the urban problem of congestion in so far as they by-pass towns. Traffic management schemes could ... a multitude of ways of increasing traffic flows and are primarily concerned with urban areas. Under this heading must be included one-way street systems, tidal flow schemes, linked traffic lights and parking and unloading restrictions. Traffic management are thought to have had some success in increasing traffic flows, but a recent study by Thomson (1968) has concluded that the true capacity of the central London road network has not increased since the advent of traffic management in 1961. This conclusion has disputed by Ridley and Turner (1968).<br />
<br />
How is the future growth of traffic to be met? There is obviously a limit to the' flow of vehicles that can be accommodated on a given road network even with the sophisticated traffic management schemes. It also looks as if investment in urban roads not going to match the increase in the number of cars. A recent report from the M. of Transport (1967) comments:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"We took as the basis for our study the assumption that there was no practical way of providing enough road space to carry a rapidly growing amount of traffic."</i></blockquote>
The same study then proceeds to consider ways of rationing road space by using variant road-pricing measures. In this respect the study was clearly influenced by the Smolt Report (Ministry of Transport, 1964), which explicitly considered the <i>"economic ail technical possibilities of road pricing"</i>. Regulating the usage of road space, especially in peak periods, by making vehicles pay their marginal social cost is an attractive proposition to economists. However, there are several objections to such an approach especially if its done by some form of metering device on cars. Firstly, the scheme is expensive to implement though it must be admitted that approximation to such a scheme can always be made by means of parking charges or having daily licences to take cars into urban areas. Secondly, it will be difficult for the motoring public to understand the concepts underlying any such schemes of road pricing and hence it is likely to arouse a considerable amount of hostility. The third objection is that road pricing is primarily concerned with usage of roads and not the problem of car ownership. Road pricing will slow down the decline in public transport, as will direct subsidies to public transport. However, the advantages of own-car usage in considerable and it may be that the shoring up of public transport will be a losing battle. In addition, the subsidization of public transport is often viewed as an alternative to spending the money on better roads and better parking facilities. As the number of car owners steadily increases the democratic pressure shifts from support of public transport to demand for better roads. <br />
<br />
This paper contains a proposal for restructuring the form of car ownership which will reduce the rate of growth of cars in the United Kingdom. This involves a change in the pricing for the use of cars, basically a shift from marginal cost to average cost pricing. As well as reducing the rate of growth of cars, the form of average cost pricing we propose will go a long way to dealing with the problem of traffic congestion at peak periods. Before considering the scheme in detail it is necessary to consider the decision-making situation of the car owner.<br />
<br />
Before a consumer becomes a car owner several types of fixed costs must be undertakes, he must first become a driver and this is a process which is expensive, involving a considerable amount of time and money. He must also provide proper parking space for the vehicle, this usually involving the additional expense of a garage. The actual purchase of the vehicle</blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: right;">
Restructuring the form of car ownership 431</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
second type of fixed cost is by far the most expensive. Because the outlay on the car is large, the other fixed costs in this second step are not sufficiently realized. These include car insurance, major repairs and upkeep. Some of these latter expenses, such as repairs can properly be regarded as running costs. However, these costs are irregular and it is difficult for the car owner to regard them as current running costs. It is likely that only petrol and perhaps oil, costs are viewed by the car owner as the actual marginal or running of his car. The following data give the fixed and variable costs for car ownership as updated by the Automobile Association for the early part of 1968. It will be noticed that table includes the cost of garaging but does not make any allowance for the fixed cost in learning to drive. <br />
<br />
The table gives a breakdown of costs for three different engine sizes for an annual ge of 10,000. This mileage is higher than the average, the current estimate being approximately 7500 miles per car. Cars less than 1500 c.c. are now the major element of the population, accounting for some 70 per cent of the total. There is also evidence that the range 1001-15<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">00</span></span> c.c. is growing the most rapidly and this class will be considered as representative of all car owners. <br />
<br />
TABLE 1. <br />
FIXED AND VARIABLE COSTS FOR CAR OWNERSHIP IN 1968<br />
middle column in bold type is for <1500cc<br />
<br />
Fixed costs (old pence per mile), assuming annual mileage of 10,000 miles <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><1000cc<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><</span><b>1500</b>cc<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><</span>2000</span> CC Engine capacity<br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0.600 <b>0.600</b> 0.600</span> Car licence <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0.897 <b>0.987</b> 1.419</span> Insurance <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
0.006 <b>0.006</b> 0.006</span> Driving licence <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1.707 <b>1.922</b> 2.759</span> Depreciation <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0.615 <b>0.692</b> 0.987</span> Interest on capital <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">1.092 <b>1.092</b> 1.092</span> Garage <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
0.076 <b>0.076</b> 0.076</span> Subscription to A.A. (or R.A.C.) <br />
<b><u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">4.993 5.375 6.939</span></u></b> <b>FIXED COSTS PER MILE: VARIABLE COSTS</b> (old pence) <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
1.783 <b>2.184</b> 2.816</span> Petrol <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
0.093 <b>0.143</b> 0.156</span> Oil <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
0.231 <b>0.234</b> 0.259</span> Tyres <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0.193 <b>0.223</b> 0.233</span> Servicing <br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">0.967 <b>1.089</b> 1.268</span> Repairs and replacements <br />
<b><u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">3.267 3.873 4.732</span></u></b> <b>VARIABLE COSTS PER MILE</b><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><b><u> </u></b></span> <b><u><span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><br />
8.260 9.248 11.671</span></u></b> <b>Total cost per mile</b><br />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<br />
SOURCE: Automobile Association, Schedule of Estimated Running Costs. </div>
<br />
If petrol and oil are the only variable costs considered by the driver then the marginal cost is 2.3d. per mile compared with an average cost of over 9d. per mile. Total annual expenditure for this car amounts to £385. However, a 3-mile trip by car results in an out-of-pocket cost of only 7d. - far less than the public transport charge for the same journey. As good economic maximizer the car owner will opt to use his car for almost all journeys. What we are saying above is that the decision on car use is being made by comparing the marginal cost of car use, the appropriate marginal cost being defined as out-of-pocket</blockquote>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div style="text-align: right;">
432 Lesue Fishman and J Stuart Wabe</div>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
expense for the trip, with the cost of making the same journey by public transport. Quarmby (1967) provides convincing evidence to confirm that motorists behave in this way by demonstrating that in the model choice decision between car and bus the car owners implicitly costing the use of their cars at approximately 25¢ per mile. The public transport cost will almost certainly be some form of average cost and this situation, as Sherman (1967) has pointed out, will lead to a bias in favour of the car in transport choice. Sherman, like all good economists, was attracted by the idea of marginal cost pricing and he argues that resource allocation will be improved if public transport is priced on this basis. However public transport is a decreasing cost industry and marginal cost pricing by itself would lead to deficits. To eliminate the deficit he proposes a “club subscription" where members share the fixed costs of public transport over a contracted period of time. Sherman (1967, p.23?) points out the consequences of such a scheme:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
“If members who shared the fixed costs paid only marginal cost for their usage of service, a potential member could evaluate the impact of his usage of public transport the overall cost per mile to him. And he could thereupon choose between car and transport on equal terms, at approximate marginal cost.”</blockquote>
At first sight this seems a fine scheme but it is completely non-operational. The problem is to get car owners to subscribe to the fixed costs of public transport. But, given the very heavy fixed costs of car use, there is absolutely no incentive for a car owner to indulge in further fixed cost expenditure. Few car owners will join the Transport Club; the majority will always use their cars and any marginal cost pricing solution will not be viable. this mean that resource allocation in the field of passenger transport cannot be improved? Our answer to this is an emphatic <i>"No"</i>.<br />
<br />
Considering public transport (pt) and private cars (pc) as the only two relevant model then, to remove the bias and improve resource allocation, we would like the price ratio to be equal to the ratio of marginal costs, that is to say<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <u>P (pt)</u> = <u> MC (pt)</u> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> P (pc) MC (pc)</span></blockquote>
It is considered realistic to think of both of these marginal costs as constants, that is to they do not vary greatly with the number of vehicle miles travelled. The current situation is that average cost pricing is appropriate for public transport because of the desire to<br />
- - 3 even and marginal cost for private car transport, that is to say,<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <u>P (pt)</u> = <u>AC (pt)</u> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> P (pc) AC (pc)</span></blockquote>
.7. and given a decreasing cost public transport sector then <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">MC(pt)<AC(pt)</span> . Therefore desired price ratio is less than the existing price ratio, that is <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <u>MC (pt)</u> <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><</span> <u>AC (pt)</u> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> MC (pc) MC (pc)</span></blockquote>
One point of importance is the decline in public transport use. Given that the curve for public transport is shifting to the left then <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">AC (pt)</span> is rising through time and we moving, perhaps rapidly, away from the desired position (this point will be considered . f more detail below). However, suppose we make the price ratio equal to the ratio of a costs, that is <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> <u>P (pt)</u> = <u>AC (pt)</u> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"> P (pc) AC (pc)</span></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span class="mceItemHidden" spellcheck="false">Restructuring the form of car ownership p433 </span></div>
</blockquote>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span class="mceItemHidden" spellcheck="false"> </span></div>
<span class="mceItemHidden" spellcheck="false">as we have seen in Table l, the average cost of car use is in excess of the marginal cost: <span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;">AC(pc) > MC(pc)</span>. It therefore follows that</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: "courier new" , "courier" , monospace;"><span class="mceItemHidden" spellcheck="false"><u>AC(pt)</u> = <u>AC (pt)</u> = 3.30 = 1.50</span><br />
P (pt) MC (pc) </span></blockquote>
<span class="mceItemHidden" spellcheck="false">we can say is that if we charge average cost for use of the car and not marginal cost we will move in the right direction and remove some, or perhaps all, of the bias which in favour of the car in making a decision on transport choice.<br />
<br />
S<span class="hiddenSpellError">ome</span> figures may help to get the above discussion in perspective. The figures will be presented on the assumption that one individual is making a decision on the mode of transport for a particular journey, for example the journey to work. <br />
<br />
<br />
The average 1968 1' .. for buses in Coventry was 3-50d. per passenger mile as opposed to <span class="hiddenSpellError">2-33d</span>. per mile by car. The 1968 situation can be approximated by fa=f<span class="hiddenGrammarError">i</span>€a=£9=1.5o <span class="hiddenSpellError">Ppc</span> MC” 2-33 7 The marginal cost of bus transport is not known but a figure of <span class="hiddenSpellError">l-Od</span>. per passenger would seem reasonable. With this estimate the ideal situation is then given by <br />
<br />
£11....JMC =I_QQ=O.43 Pp, MC” 233 {thus it can be seen that the bias against public transport and in favour of the private ‘is considerable. on the basis of the above data the observed price ratio is 3-5 times 7 ' - than the desired price ratio. We maintain that it is possible to approximate to this s; ' .. price ratio by average cost pricing. Such a change will tend to decrease the demand car miles and hence raise average cost, and increase the demand for public transport f an associated fall in average cost. With average cost pricing we may end up in the ng situation: 1 3 P AC 3-20 I. .Iig__£‘.=.._.=o.32 Pp, AC” lo°0 j The price ratio under average cost pricing IS much closer to the desired ratio, given by ‘nal costs, than is the current price ratio. In fact the situation with an observed price of 1-50 has been transformed, on these figures, to one that has a slight bias in favour of f , ' transport. It may be that there is a case for having prices biased in favour of public A. port because of the higher social costs per seat mile associated with cars in comparison buses. Social costs will include such items as noise, fumes and accidents. Given that f social costs imposed by a bus and a car are equal then, because 15 or so cars are needed carry the equivalent of a fully loaded bus, social welfare will be increased by conferring a 7 . advantage on public transport at the expense of cars. i. How have the ratios ACP. over M C” and M Cu over MC” been changing through time ratios have been estimated for 1956 and the results are most striking. Information <span class="hiddenSpellError">supplied</span> by the Automobile Association gives the petrol and oil cost for cars of <span class="hiddenSpellError">1000-l</span>500 cc. 7 ‘ -26d. per mile. The closeness of this <span class="hiddenSpellError">1956</span> figure with the current figure is quite <span class="hiddenSpellError">remar-</span> Information supplied by Coventry Corporation Transport Department gives the <span class="hiddenSpellError">1956</span> of bus transport as <span class="hiddenSpellError">l-33d</span>. per passenger mile. Thus the 1956 observed price ratio was p“_ACp_."_l-33_ 3:“ MC,,“ 226 059</span></blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgPkk2rTS0FSAa0TL3Ks2Y7wW10yPf1y5ee-YZhZJq733MG1sNDvCPHzpfIFrrgMN47PxJFQKhSog7Lq1KCbi-i4wUTnmZYtvGyc6g20RNoK3B8N3b_RkGr8NXfUGBycITFkpfrsMFHveqJ/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-003%25281%2529.png" /><br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSY89rFs03gLbrfDYWNFH7EAEfeHHsPaoZJkIO-c7RIVB66lKK8ZDJSN12ken5SUVYRIlZoSAZ53lNudOpvSVeewYpfQfh4gGusMSR84x5HI-Tq3wy7EFJafzDhc4M9dwm2xHr77x4T_zz/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-004.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSY89rFs03gLbrfDYWNFH7EAEfeHHsPaoZJkIO-c7RIVB66lKK8ZDJSN12ken5SUVYRIlZoSAZ53lNudOpvSVeewYpfQfh4gGusMSR84x5HI-Tq3wy7EFJafzDhc4M9dwm2xHr77x4T_zz/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-004.png" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkHA9XEzyI9GtTV8dCZJ3tfxLGrz7BG_qIkS-SosFv2BS5xAWIeTbY-nZUnvK_xTsZlSX0TSJZotwMgxWX7Oqc1GKUI4ZiMeJHnMFQ17Yad7Fv6no5o7AUnwjHtlE7L7Wxhiw3kpDegDPJ/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-005.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkHA9XEzyI9GtTV8dCZJ3tfxLGrz7BG_qIkS-SosFv2BS5xAWIeTbY-nZUnvK_xTsZlSX0TSJZotwMgxWX7Oqc1GKUI4ZiMeJHnMFQ17Yad7Fv6no5o7AUnwjHtlE7L7Wxhiw3kpDegDPJ/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-005.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPUbUJKuxA-Nq2CQA6tmCll3n0Mo5ymx3n7mH3TU6cw5-Cz0-Cs6kqcveq6m0cW8Rrku_Oa6gePIVedsPEqbmm5MVVJrEuEHQY4YBR8xEmeuJbjfBcOAOq7fHtfJW2KPaHwOvkiUHmAf4e/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-006.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPUbUJKuxA-Nq2CQA6tmCll3n0Mo5ymx3n7mH3TU6cw5-Cz0-Cs6kqcveq6m0cW8Rrku_Oa6gePIVedsPEqbmm5MVVJrEuEHQY4YBR8xEmeuJbjfBcOAOq7fHtfJW2KPaHwOvkiUHmAf4e/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-006.png" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh0uZwLRUsmcrb9Sv4meLMaJ4qR5zSAUjudsIQz97hGS1-TCvTPBhKQ0rBn7Goioiub5jdNK_UI9Z4g1sC3IZiW5nWzRZcT8y2D3pbCx80dQyDppc3nmiqajA8kAcfIwF-qMcTuOORQrvhL/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-007.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh0uZwLRUsmcrb9Sv4meLMaJ4qR5zSAUjudsIQz97hGS1-TCvTPBhKQ0rBn7Goioiub5jdNK_UI9Z4g1sC3IZiW5nWzRZcT8y2D3pbCx80dQyDppc3nmiqajA8kAcfIwF-qMcTuOORQrvhL/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-007.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgiHvXaEQeKDttd6MV4QUmDSTqdpH-kO50kwm66qLR9cwzP00K8IvYyNqw0fiplQCRm4GbEDkO7OwvAEQnYwjCozjUZ8NjR59QGKb7ZmrBlkyyHtwqkkKcEl7RUZNhZumJM9CUJQ95f0-cL/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-008.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgiHvXaEQeKDttd6MV4QUmDSTqdpH-kO50kwm66qLR9cwzP00K8IvYyNqw0fiplQCRm4GbEDkO7OwvAEQnYwjCozjUZ8NjR59QGKb7ZmrBlkyyHtwqkkKcEl7RUZNhZumJM9CUJQ95f0-cL/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-008.png" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgacWwthc3jS2AwSLac7gy9zIK70RwQIPy7kWQUiPq0u43aMtkMtKzwbGBWxMcBExXG6CMA3LVLpwfPES8OiCMcvd_VuOjXaEayuT1v8Z9xBVkfWvYODdv9qkMUC2nHkHHFWZN9L73Pisa2/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-009.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgacWwthc3jS2AwSLac7gy9zIK70RwQIPy7kWQUiPq0u43aMtkMtKzwbGBWxMcBExXG6CMA3LVLpwfPES8OiCMcvd_VuOjXaEayuT1v8Z9xBVkfWvYODdv9qkMUC2nHkHHFWZN9L73Pisa2/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-009.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiLIPRAqkkr_SMkQFslpdN-9biqUArTraVkcBsL1GmuA0VzBmA0YBJUOYOWxV5lbZpJCQ8BR1NM6YCj92eSo3Usl4l9nWN0OsdIG15n4pBr6LcfIoUbSyUrFiv4blWbz0_I0CAJMbWXcD9R/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-010.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiLIPRAqkkr_SMkQFslpdN-9biqUArTraVkcBsL1GmuA0VzBmA0YBJUOYOWxV5lbZpJCQ8BR1NM6YCj92eSo3Usl4l9nWN0OsdIG15n4pBr6LcfIoUbSyUrFiv4blWbz0_I0CAJMbWXcD9R/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-010.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg1q0WkFzrrnF3CNmY6ubtDdEIeB0JFpM8WswYAtLrximfF_kzGJncHUqPtIy9pEbBS-wIzWPjGscRppb_Mz0AZt-nN9VGd3T_WdkcjNUOYkXsW91R67TJcyIW5pZk8a0SlGycTvgOblOM0/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-011%25281%2529.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg1q0WkFzrrnF3CNmY6ubtDdEIeB0JFpM8WswYAtLrximfF_kzGJncHUqPtIy9pEbBS-wIzWPjGscRppb_Mz0AZt-nN9VGd3T_WdkcjNUOYkXsW91R67TJcyIW5pZk8a0SlGycTvgOblOM0/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-011%25281%2529.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhtwv4vQhwdOcg_DreUJbhzoRfS4Ah1qw3LTSOT3RCnhfRSOwaSA5lXcNzoWH_wQ0q18sgCZKIFZauJIv5myPR5alA_WPE_-ADkEFlHczlrlMyMRVkLOBF-83IgdN5dKGHuaBTqpKUXo4Zh/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-011.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5Zhoa0biTPpbN4LxboD5lHktbk3xXV7xT6IlZl0iN6juu5u7Go7fex_ai4K5aK7K3ywb8HfDF-VvjClQRsaUMRe8EmXvrpGb42NX_6tRkZd8L7NtFrVYXwgPUWDmcWBY3b6dDVCaMb9aB/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-012.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5Zhoa0biTPpbN4LxboD5lHktbk3xXV7xT6IlZl0iN6juu5u7Go7fex_ai4K5aK7K3ywb8HfDF-VvjClQRsaUMRe8EmXvrpGb42NX_6tRkZd8L7NtFrVYXwgPUWDmcWBY3b6dDVCaMb9aB/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-012.jpg" /></a></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhcB0IFPaOtkk_mNnG4qOtl5xXVqos1PIRvfVwF6xsv4wYQuCvBb-irlob_s-fO-ttykAhTFA4Cocljaf3xXrel_38ZNYX83F1iAvwbLsHhx6_iuJwy4MaUMt307W4pm8kt4itkDM926EyH/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-013.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhcB0IFPaOtkk_mNnG4qOtl5xXVqos1PIRvfVwF6xsv4wYQuCvBb-irlob_s-fO-ttykAhTFA4Cocljaf3xXrel_38ZNYX83F1iAvwbLsHhx6_iuJwy4MaUMt307W4pm8kt4itkDM926EyH/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-013.jpg" /></a></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0041164769900392/part/first-page-pdf">Only the first page is free on-line</a>. A concluding paragraph is quoted on <a href="http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp_rpt_108.pdf">another site</a> that says they were "remarkably close" in predicting where car clubs might be popular<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzeDV4_ZDLxviXvhP1rnh-tFsprXTNvBYTItp8q2lt1ESu5psfrUyCWbYZiCCnTqh5skAZy9ZtiAeHP0jRY_q5LGIuNSNfSsAhXNid3rLlTkQumQk-xPFXRj7Fv38ESzJqy3dvQUf8zAkg/s1600/FishmannWabe1969-002.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a></div>
The [community garage] plan proposed here has been made with the new town in mind, but it is just as applicable to most British towns and, with variation, to most British cities. Where it simply will not do is in the United States. American cities have, with almost no exception, become motor cities – adapted to the owner-driver form of transport. Numerous rivers of motorways disgorge their traffic into oceans of parking areas. At their “headwaters”, the motorway rivers can be traced through a vast stream network of subsidiary roads to their source, the innumerable cemented driveways and garages (with houses attached). It is now not uncommon in Los Angeles to see a private garage with room for five or six vehicles, much as an old stable had room for a half-dozen horses. The American city can no longer be adapted to a community garage scheme. Their path is irreversible, and they have gone beyond the point of no return</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1970</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><b>"I could have been someone" "Well so could anyone"</b></span></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>- The Pogues, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairytale_of_New_York">Fairytale of New York</a>.</i> Shane McGowan and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jem_Finer">Jem Finer</a>, Computer Science & Sociology with Foundation Year, graduate from Keele late 1960s<br />
<br />
<br />
"Academic Stardom" was a phrase used in <i>The Independent's</i> obiturary to say what Les missed in the USA. At this point I guess that US economics professors at the better-known colleges earn more and more from consultancy, on top of pay for lecturing, and they don't have to bother with tutorials where someone might tell them that their theories are stupid or wrong. Their students have to compete with each other to agree in the most sacharine way with the teacher - that's how it works. Academic starts can choose to work in a department with a lot of choice about which students it selects, and which can select the richest and most precocious ones. The tricky people to please are the ones who want consultancy fees like Boeing or whoever. There was a TV documentary on something like Panorama to show how it works, with the odd surprise interview with a very patronising and uncomfortable bow-tied professor. Professors might get the odd TV interview or free dinner for a speech and generally feel part of the world, unaware of the havoc their stupid theories cause. Keele staff do not have these benefits, even if they start at the top as a professor to open a new department. They do get an above-average wage for an above-specialised job, even if they are too lazy and stupid hold a single tutorial or check facts on computers. Professors who are also department managers do better still. A recent Keele Economics Professor job went for more than double the average wage, and one that managed a small department would have got more on-top, so Fishman just had to keep up appearances and take the money. On the other hand, the Keele list speaks for itself: they have to record every single journal article very carefully, because people who teach the same short core course as thousands of other teachers have trouble making a mark on the world and getting things published. Offspring pick-up the things that are not said. I picked-up the idea that pop music was bad for you from my parents, completely by mistake. Paying guests from places like Idaho and Oragon visited to get points towards a degree. One of them had gone a bit deaf from heavy metal. Fishman's offpring - Nina Fishman - picked-up the idea that this man had done his job after being wronged by circumstance. I don't remember him moping at all, but that's what she picked-up. His colleagues probably noticed the other side of the market: he'd got top jobs when there was a professor shortage and they'd got jobs teaching basics without much chance to shine and apply for anything else.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<h3>
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=apwkAAAAMAAJ">The Interdependent Economy </a></h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/interdependent-economy-an-inaugural-lecture/oclc/133338/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br">Worldcat has this under "Leo Fishman"</a> as does Google Books 19 page inaugural lecture, stapled together for sale in December 1970, 3 shillings.</div>
£14.95 on Amazon. Google books has machine-chosen keywords as a tag cloud, some in larger type than others<br />
<br />
ABM system Adam Smith allocate alternative method anti-pollution basic Britain certainly complex congestion cost countryside David Ricardo deteriorates developing nations difficult earth economic institutions economic theory approached economists economy before World especially estimate firms following the rules forced government is called government to sort grants to merchants greatest saving growth historical needs important income individual industrial interdependent economy involved Japan key reform Kistiakowsky lack of alignment long-run longer major market system marketplace military missile gap hoax modifications modify the rules motor car motorist Once output partial equilibrium solution pharmaceutical research planet pollution price mechanism primary products problem area public transport system pure research returning the water right in terms road pricing road space scientific revolution scientific-technological revolution side-effects Smith and David society stop-go cycle subsidy technological Throughout the lecture true affluence Tyneside U.S. economy United University of Keele viewpoint stresses wealthy world monetary arrangements<br />
<br />
<br />
1<br />
<br />
2<br />
<br />
<br />
3<br />
<br />
4<br />
<img alt="" src="data:image/png;base64,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" /><br />
5<br />
<br />
<img alt="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=apwkAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA5&img=1&pgis=1&dq=with+the+market.+Capital+flowing+into&sig=ACfU3U0L6QO1YGWTr-omnvsQrS1YeS726g&edge=0" src="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=apwkAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA5&img=1&pgis=1&dq=with+the+market.+Capital+flowing+into&sig=ACfU3U0L6QO1YGWTr-omnvsQrS1YeS726g&edge=0" /><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
6<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
7<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
8<br />
<br />
<br />
9<br />
<br />
<br />
10<br />
<br />
<br />
11<br />
<br />
12<br />
<br />
13<br />
<br />
14<br />
<br />
15<br />
<br />
16<br />
<br />
17<br />
<br />
18<br />
<br />
19</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1971</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Status and Problems of developing countries - </h3>
<div style="text-align: left;">
week 15 lecture to Foundation Year students at Keele, mentioned in <i>Keele Boomerang</i></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
The Wonderment of a Dog on Draft </h3>
- <a href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0061bf">anonymous anecdote on a football discussion forum</a> mentions Les Fishman<br />
<br />
I'm glad you like warm beer Ciara. My Prof at Keele University was American. Les Fishman. Never taught us any economics but would regale us with cracking yarns at every lecture or tutorial. (He'd have loved this BBS!) Anyway he told us how he had first arrived in the UK and was driving round on a hot Summer's day exploring. Alighting at a pub and dying of thirst he was shocked to be handed a "warm" pint. He complained but was told that was the way to drink it - it had more taste. "And you know" said Fishman, with a gleam of pleasure in his eyes and a glance at his watch to confirm that lunchtime was almost upon us, "She was right - it does taste better - it took me a few pints to work it out - but by golly it does taste good - and now - you British - you're selling out to these lagers and cold beer - aaah!" and he waved his arms hopelessly in front of himself and hurried off to the Sneyd Arms in the centre of Keele. :-) <br />
-- Anonymous, August 10, 2001<br />
<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
[Pioneers] RIP Les Fishman</h3>
<a href="http://maillists.keele.ac.uk/pipermail/pioneers/2008-January/000863.html">http://maillists.keele.ac.uk/pipermail/pioneers/2008-January/000863.html</a><br />
I was saddened to learn from the newsletter of the passing of Prof Les Fishman. He and Ellie were a very kind couple who would always put themselves out help a student or colleague who needed it. I thought he was simply too nice for the sometimes rough world of University politics. <br />
<br />
Les used to give us election help in Newcastle in the early 70s. I remember the good burghers of the Cross Heath estate being somewhat bemused by this avuncular American pitching up on their doorstep telling them why they should come out and vote Labour.<br />
<br />
When he came to Keele he also "found" football and became a supporter of Stoke City. We used to go to away games at places like Old Trafford and his boyish excitement at the spectacle was a pleasure to behold. In those days Radio Stoke used to convene a panel of supporters for a studio discussion after the game. Les did this a few times because Radio Stoke loved having an American on it, but he didn't always get the language right which caused confusion, such as talking about the number of "penalty kicks" when he meant "free kicks" and referring to the ball hitting the "pole" rather than the post but people loved his enthusiasm for the game and for Stoke as a club and a place. He adopted the potteries and it adopted him. - <a href="http://maillists.keele.ac.uk/pipermail/pioneers/2008-January/000861.html">Malc Clarke</a><br />
<br />
Les should also be remembered for his deeply valued support he gave the new American Studies department back in the mid-60s. When the temptation would have been to focus American Studies upon an existing discipline as so many other new universities did (where an interest in American literature became the basis for subsequent American Studies with the odd historian bolted on for show) Les supported the belief that at Keele at least American Studies<br />
should combine as many disciplines as possible, in fact follow on from the old FY, linking humanities and social sciences. So when David Adams was able to open the department (and it was a department on a par with the others, not a programme as it has become at Keele and elsewhere) Les supported the decision to offer economics to all American Studies students. This of course would never fit in with the more recent insistence on student choice (where<br />
students get to choose to avoid anything that looks different or worse, hard). We were required to read Baron and Sweezy and discuss capitalism, the Great Depression and military-industrial complex, not just from the point of view of historians or political scientists, but with regard to the economics of these topics. At times I was so out of my depth. Indeed I once asked a<br />
friend doing Economics to help me out, but it seemed he hadn't dealt with anything like that in his degree yet. But Les was enthusiastic, and of course to have an American teaching us, and in the first year too, was wonderful. And it was Les who chivvied me into going to see Stoke play (I was still a bit of a Forest fan when I arrived).<br />
<br />
So, thanks Les, from those parochial, economically illiterate 18 year olds that you taught back in the 60s.<br />
<br />
Steve Mills, American Studies and Geography 1967-71</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1972</span></b><span class="addmd"><br />
</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span class="addmd">8 The conference attracted nearly 200 participants, including a large number of students. Although the numbers dwindled in successive sessions, there was an atmosphere of sustained interest and debate. Papers given at the conference included David Yaffe's "The Marxian Theory of Crisis, Capital and the State," Jan Kregel's "Post-Keynesian Economic Theory and the Theory of Capitalist Crisis," Les Fishman's "Inflation," and Barrat Brown's "Capitalism in the Second Half of the 20th Century" (CS Newsletter, February 1973; Conference of Socialist Economists 1972b). </span><br />
<span class="addmd"></span><br />
<span class="addmd">- found in a google snippet from the footnotes of <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fDyUAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT413&lpg=PT413&dq=%22Les+Fishman%22+economics&source=bl&ots=XpYcOFtm4F&sig=IBiaWnKVU8lpmIW0miMK4HI5RY8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDj5KxxpvXAhWqLMAKHRpVAj4Q6AEIMzAC#v=onepage&q=%22Fishman%22&f=false">A History of Heterodox Economics: Challenging the Mainstreeam</a>... by Fredrick Lee</span></blockquote>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1973</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/multinational-company/oclc/57035064&referer=brief_results">The Multi National Company</a></span></h3>
16 page document published by Keele University, now held at Cambridge University Library and the British Library document supply centre. Fishman is joins the committee of the <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9OEEAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22Professor+Leslie+Fishman%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22Professor+Leslie+Fishman%22">Pedestrians Committee for Road Safety</a></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1974</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Transportation Research, Volume 3, number 4, 1969. Pergamon Press Transport article from Warwick University with J Stewart Wabe</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1975</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="medium-8 inline-block">
<h1>
</h1>
<div class="publisher">
Published by: <a class="publisher-link" href="http://www.jstor.org/publisher/black">Wiley</a> on behalf of the <a class="publisher-link" href="http://www.jstor.org/publisher/res">Royal Economic Society</a></div>
<div class="doi">
DOI: 10.2307/2230650</div>
<div class="stable">
Stable URL: <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2230650">http://www.jstor.org/stable/2230650</a></div>
<div class="count">
</div>
</div>
<i>An Introduction to Industrial Economics.</i> By P. J. DEVINE et al. (London: Allen and Unwin, 1974. Pp. 613. 0.75 hardback, £3.95 Paperback.) The field of industrial economics has been undergoing major change, in part reflecting changes in technique and data and theoretical emphasis on the academic side, in part reflecting the major changes occurring in industry, in the national and international economy, and especially in the relationships between government and industry. The four University of Manchester economists have done the profession a service by attempting to summarise the state of the art at this point in time. They have produced what is arguably the best text presently available, certainly for industrial economics students, but also perhaps for applied economics courses. Its great strength lies in the excellent and exten-sive summaries of the empirical studies that have engulfed the field in the past several decades. Its weakness, which the authors hardly attempt to paper over, is that the theory needed to guide our empirital search, and thus to provide a framework within which to analyse problems, is found wanting. We tend to use a static, competitive, non-interventionist theory of allocation, when the key problems of British and American industry clearly lie in the context of a dynamic, oligopolistic, interventionist, adaptive framework. Nevertheless, because no alternative, unifying theory is available, the authors stress the need to know and apply microeconomic theory, despite its shortcomings. In contrast to the earlier traditional books in this field, which tended to use the historical, descriptive approach, the authors blend theory and practice. Thus the first chapter introduces the " new " industrial economics, with full marks given to P. W. S. Andrews for his pioneer attempts to apply and recon-cile and adapt microeconomic theory to the real world of industry. The intro-duction includes a brief, but welcome, discussion of methodology. The student is made aware of some of the problems, and 4 given a framework and some bibliography on which to build. This characterises the entire volume. Despite its length of over 6oo pages, the authors, probably correctly, decided to "introduce" the student to the most relevant tools and sources and issues, however briefly. They then develop at length the core material of the new industrial economics. Thus the opening chapter has an appendix on data collection and interpretation, including a short section on regression analysis. I thought the regression example poorly chosen, too complex (in log form), and with two of the signs requiring detailed exploration (let alone some of the coefficients). Why not use one of the studies dealt with in some detail in a subsequent chapter? With the earlier discussion of methodology as background, why not draw attention to the parallel between mis-specification and the lack of consonance between theory and data? Finally, despite the excellent list of six cautions in the use of regression analysis, do we not want to stress that <i>relating</i> variables is not the same thing as <i>explaining</i>, or <i>understanding</i>, or providing <i>causal</i> links? Only "Correct" theory applied with "correct" data can truly <i>"explain"</i>. Still, all in all, the chapter sets the stage well, and prepares us for the problems ahead. The second chapter, on industrial and market structure, adds more tools (input—output, Lorenz Curve) whilst covering the substantive work on structure. Both of these discussions are at an elementary level, but useful. The material on concentration and on economies of scale is particularly well presented. The chapter ends with a summary that serves to sharpen the underlying issues that have been posed. All but three of the chapters have such a summary or conclusion, or both, and I found them helpful and instructive, not offensive, as they can be when oversimplified. The next four chapters lead to pricing and marketing, by expertly summarising the theory and empirical material presently available in the theory of the firm, corporate growth, diversification, merger, and innovation. The investment-decision chapter stands somewhat apart, but is obviously necessary to introduce the technical tools, uncertainty, the problems of finance, and the role of the interest rate. The concluding four chapters deal with the role of government: an introductory chapter on performance measures; an historical summary of the post-war state intervention (legal and otherwise) in the private sector; the nationalised sector (carefully titled <i>"Government Relations with the Public Industrial Sector "</i>) ; and the location of industry policy. Thus the plan of the book is as follows: the first two-thirds equips the student with the theory and empirical work needed to analyse industry; the final one-third relates this to the role of government. Considering there were four authors, the organisation and writing of the text is clear and reasonably consistent. Given the enormous range of material covered, each reader is bound to feel that some sections are more successful than others. I thought that the chapter on the theory of the firm was particularly useful. Despite the major contribution of Devine and his colleagues, and despite the length of the text, some major weaknesses and omissions remain. One looks in vain through the useful Authors' Index in the back for the names of Rostas, or Frankel, or Paige and Bombach, or Flux — all of whose studies on comparative real productivity are summarised in Phelps Brown's chapter in <i>Britain's Economic Prospects Reconsidered</i>. Do these not highlight the major problem of British industry, which perhaps now faces American industry also, namely, loss of international competitiveness? A summary and discussion of these studies would considerably strengthen chapter 8. The authors certainly did not have room for an historical development of British industry, but even a brief summary of it would have emphasised the growth-maturity thesis into which much of their analysis fits. Another major omission is the work of W. E. G. Salter, relating as it does, at an industry level, rates of growth and efficiency and prices. Then too, although inflation is mentioned in several chapters, and government bodies created to deal with inflation are reviewed, must we not think seriously about incorporating inflation, and prices and incomes policies, into the main stream of industrial economics? Still another " tool " that would add only a dozen pages would be sufficient accounting technique to enable the student to read intelligently a company's balance sheet, which is recommended for raw data in the appendix of chapter 4. It would also enable a better understanding of some of the problems posed by inflation and company finance, as well as the seeming irrationality of higgledy-piggledy growth (which is not mentioned) and the stock exchange. A rich source of data and experience for industrial economics which has hardly been tapped and which is not mentioned in the book, is that of the management consultants. One major role performed by management consultants, previously done on a much lower scale by accountants, and not at all considered by the authors, is to analyse and advise companies about strategies in all areas of industrial economics — investment policies, development and pricing strategies, relationships to governments, and merger and co-operation strategies. The authors review so well the material available on the multi-national company, but it simply serves to whet our appetite for more: for example, EEC company policy; a new theory of giant business in the context of mature industrial nations. Here then is a useful and welcome text, providing the student with much material and theory that is well presented and well organised, and providing the profession with an inventory of important unanswered questions in this field. (There were surprisingly few mistakes that I noted, considering the number of tables and figures, but some of the more important were: equation 7.8, figure 6.1 (slope of the MC), and confusing the horizontal and vertical axes in the footnote reference to log normal distribution on page 93.) L. FISHMAN University of Keele</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=0vzrAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72UGZS3h_eFdZAhTsbDHO7c8RogyUkNgP91bRwGW6uL9SzdSfWVOyr1Khmea7at7-WjVwwyTbif1mpLQvbBNitUFfwSTGb-bK-AoRMI6vi4WjRA_Oo" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=0vzrAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72UGZS3h_eFdZAhTsbDHO7c8RogyUkNgP91bRwGW6uL9SzdSfWVOyr1Khmea7at7-WjVwwyTbif1mpLQvbBNitUFfwSTGb-bK-AoRMI6vi4WjRA_Oo" /></a></div>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1977</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;">Acknowledged as a volunteer proof-reader for the <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0-V4wIGDxhIC&dq=Les+Fishman+of+Keele+University">1977 edition</a> of this texbook. Oddly enough the same author did a macro-economics textbook, which might have been a better bet than the mid-atlantic one with all its blind spots that Fishman prescribed for his 1984-7 course.<br />
The book is still in print with a 2011 edition.</span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1979</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><a href="http://www.pedestriansafety.org.uk/files/walk_june_1980.pdf">http://www.pedestriansafety.org.uk/files/walk_june_1980.pdf</a> - quoted as a committee member at the Pedestrian's Association, which is concerned that people sometimes cycle on pavements. Experiments in Stevenage showed that cycle lanes or just cycling on pavements can work, but the Pedestrian's Association is very much against.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=1leuCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&h=160&stbn=1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://books.google.co.uk/books/content?id=1leuCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&h=160&stbn=1" /></a><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1981</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><b><a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=76vaAAAAMAAJ">Marxism and the Agrarian Question</a></b></span></div>
<span style="font-size: small;">McMillan publishers, 126 pages - acknowledgement by the authors Athar Hussain and Kieth Tribe</span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><b>1980s</b></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.3em;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">"This article is based on a research project being undertaken in the Department of Economics, University of Keele into ‘Economic Aspects of the Non-Tableware Sectors of the British Pottery Industry ’ which is being financed by the Social Science Research Council. I am grateful to Professor L. Fishman for reading successive drafts and for suggesting improvements</span></span><span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.3em;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"> " - the footnote is all that google knows of the non tableware research, so presumably the grant was converted into a grant to study redundant factory workers.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">As som<span style="font-family: inherit;">eone who tried to sell <span style="font-family: inherit;">a non tablewear ceramic on ebay. I know that wedgewood took over<span style="font-family: inherit;"> a factory with an owner who was interested in art and commissioned <span style="font-family: inherit;">her to do things like the poppy design on toasters and coffee machines, which <span style="font-family: inherit;">were not always on tables.<br />
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>Volunteer proof-reader and commenter on the draft<br />
<br />
JOURNAL OF ECONOMIC ISSUES J Vol. XVI No. I Marchi 1982 <br />
The Atrophy of Net Investment and Some Consequences for the U.S. Mixed Economy Harold G. Vatter <br />
<br />
In this last half of the twentieth century, the United States is experiencing the continuation of a long-term trend that resembles a modified version of John Stuart Mill's stationary state. In that state of the economy, net tangible business investment approximated zero. The data pertinent to this timely proposition, to be presented to the extent practicable below, reveal that over the long run, from the late nineteenth century to the present (beginning probably in the 1920s), there has been a dramatic drop in the share of net fixed business nonresidential investment in net total product. Indeed, the share of this historically and theoretically strategic private investment category has now become so small that it seems pressingly appropriate for us <br />
(1) to examine whether this share decline helps explain some of the puzzling and controversial phenomena characterizing the post-World War II economic evolution of the U.S. mixed economy, and <br />
(2) to explore the possible implications of a heuristic model in which the share approximates zero. <br />
<br />
The Model <br />
There are several prominent features of the closed economy growth <br />
<br />
The author is Professor of Economics, Portland State University, Portland, Oregon. <br />
He wishes to acknowledge gratefully the comments of <br />
Richard M. Davis, University of Oregon; <br />
Robert Heilbroner, New School for Social Research; <br />
Jack Thorkelson, University of Connecticut; <br />
<span style="background-color: yellow;">Les Fishman, University of Keele</span>; <br />
John Walker, Portland State University; and<br />
anonymous journal reviewers. 237 <br />
This content downloaded from 193.105.245.14 on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:18:59 AM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions http://www.jstor.org/page/info/about/policies/terms.jsp </blockquote>
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1984</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/british-economic-crisis-its-past-and-future/oclc/19324456">The British Economic Crisis</a>, <a href="https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/keith.smith">Keith Smith</a>, Penguin, 1984 <span style="font-size: xx-small;">I would particularly like to thank Edward Bennet, who encouraged me to write theis book, and Phoebe de Gaye, who asked me questions which I struggled to answer in the following pages. For comments and help I am greatful to Setephen Hannah, of HM Treasury, and to colleagues in the Economics Department at the University of Keele: Sylvia Beech, Jayne Braddick, Pamela Davenport, Shirley Dex, <span style="color: red;"><b>Leslie Fishman</b></span>, Athar Hussain, Peter Lawrence, Leslie Rosenthal and John Proops. <b><span style="color: red;">I am greatful also to my students at Keele for heated discussions on some of the ideas presented here.</span></b> A substandital part of this book was written in Norway</span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;">nd I would like to thank Bjorn Christiansen, Gro Fossen, Kunut Vidar Paulsen and Peter and Anne-Karin Cleaverley fro help while I was there. Finallym I would especially like to thank Kristine Bruland, my wife without whom this book could not have been written. <a href="http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2013/09/uncomfortable-lessons-of-history/">Photo from http://www.enlightenmenteconomics.com/blog/index.php/2013/09/uncomfortable-lessons-of-history/</a></span></blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1986</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Fishman, L et al (1986)<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<i><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/re-employment-experiences-of-redundant-michelin-workers/oclc/277162361">Re-employment experiences of redundant Michelin workers</a>.</span></i> </h3>
Keele University: Keele University, Department of Economics and Management Science. </blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1987</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">Valerie H. Dundas-Grant (1987) Technical education as organised nationally in France, The Vocational Aspect of Education, 39:103, 51-63, DOI:10.1080/10408347308002891 <a href="http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10408347308002891">http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10408347308002891</a></span></blockquote>
<blockquote>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">My thanks also for substantial help given me by <span style="color: red;">Professor Leslie Fishman</span>, Professor Martin Harrison, Dr Rick Marshall and Mr Iolo Roberts of the University of Keele, Departments of Economics, Politics, Physics and Education respectively Fishman retires from teaching in 1987 and from the university in 1988 without any acknowledgement that he has done anything wrong.</span></blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1992</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq ">
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
1-1-1992 <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/economic-surplus-in-advanced-economies/oclc/26094792">The Economic Surplus in Advanced Economies</a> John B. Davis Marquette University, john.davis@marquette.edu<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
Ch 9. Economic Surplus and the Market System,</h3>
p149-177 Leslie Fishman Extra connection: Edward Elgar Publishing The reviewer below didn't get to chapter nine of the contents page.<br />
<a href="http://www.e-elgar.com/shop/the-economic-surplus-in-advanced-economies">http://www.e-elgar.com/shop/the-economic-surplus-in-advanced-economies</a> £89 for a .pdf</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1993</span></b></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
THE ECONOMIC JOURNAL, No. 103 p1111-1112, July 1993 DAVIS (JOHN B.), (Ed). The Economic Surplus in Advanced Economies. Aldershot and Brookfield, VT: Edward Elgar, 1992. Pp. vii + 192. £39.95 hardback. ISBN I 85278 555 .• <br />
<br />
It is over a quarter of a century since the publication of Paul Baran and Paul Swazy's book Monopoly Capital. This excellent little book under review commemorates that event and brings together a number of important contributions and surveys. Contributors to this present volume indude Keith Cowling, John Davis, Michael Dawson, Amitava Krishna Du, <span style="color: red;"><b>Leslie Fishman</b></span>, John Bellamy Foster, Victor Lippit, Tracy Mott, Joseph Phillips, James Stanfield, and Paul Sweeny. Monopoly Capital was written in the Mandan tradition, claiming inspiration from the earlier analyses of Michal Kalecki and Joseph Steindl in particular. According to Baran and Sweezy's book, large oligopolistic firms have come to dominate product markets wage regidity. This is contrasted with the New Classical concern with rational expectations and continuous market clearing. Chapter 1 provides an overview which clarifies the author's definition of what constitutes the New Keynesian macroeconomics and justifies the book's subtitle. Chapter 2 and 3 cover the background to the microfoundations debate. Chapter 2 deals with the neoclassical synthesis and the natural rate hypothesis. Chapter 3 focuses on the Keynesian disequilibrium theory of trading at false prices. Chapter 4 sets out the main elements of the New Classical approach the policy irrelevance proposition, the time inconsistency problem, and business cycle theory. Chapter 5 - 7 deal with the New Keynesian approach. Chapter 5 sets out the difficulties with rational expectations with particular emphasis on the possibility of multiple equilibria. The author covers speculative bubbles and sunspot equilibria as well as introducing a simple overlapping generations model. Chapter 6 focuses on New Keynesian accounts of price determination, in particular menu costs and staggered price-setting. Chapter 7 considers various New Keynesian models of wage determination: the monopoly union model, bargaining, hysteresis, and efficiency wages. Each chapter concludes with a useful, if somewhat too brief, guide to the literature. The author writes with clarity and makes extensive use of diagrams. The mathematical content is significant but well within the grasp of the average economics undergraduate. Overall this is an excellent introduction to the subject and should be very useful as a basic reference on final-year undergraduate courses in macroeconomic theory. - BILL GERRARD</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1995</span></b><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_JzaAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Les+Fishman%22+economics&dq=%22Les+Fishman%22+economics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR1dG6mJvNAhVmD8AKHY9hAvAQ6AEIPjAC">Fabian Review</a>, The Quarterly Journal of the Fabian Society vols 107-8 lists Islington Fabian Society AGM on a diary page, with a talk: </span><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;">Germany 1945 / Keynes 1946 </span></h3>
<span style="font-size: small;">by Professor Les Fishman</span><b><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
</span></b></blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.elgaronline.com/search?f_0=author&q_0=Jan%20Toporowski">Jan Toporowski</a></span></blockquote>
</div>
<ul>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;">DOI 10.4337/9781845425739.00004</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Pages 2 total</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Category Monograph Chapter</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://www.elgaronline.com/downloadpdf/9781843764779.00004.xml">Download PDF (9.5 KB)</a></span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span class="title"> </span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span class="title">Subjects:</span> economics and finance, financial economics and regulation, post-keynesian economics</span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Extract</span></li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">I wish to record my thanks to the librarians of the Perry Library of South Bank University, the British Library of Political and Economic Sciences; the libraries of the School of Oriental and African Studies and the Szkola Glówna Handlowa; and the British Library, and Tish Collins of the Marx Memorial Library, for their assistance in my research for this book. The generosity of the Amiel-Melburn Trust, the Leverhulme Foundation, and the European Commission’s research network on Financial Integration and Social Cohesion has helped to defray expenses associated with broader research, of which this · is one outcome. Especial thanks are due to Anita Prazmowska for her unique encouragement of my efforts to overcome the obstacles that academic employment today throws in the path of intellectual endeavour. That employment, however, also brought into the orbit of my discussions some talented and enthusiastic students on whom I was able to try out many of the ideas in this book. When those ideas became serious I was able to discuss them more knowledgeably with David Gowland, <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Leslie Fishman</span></b>, Peter Howells, Jesper Jesperson, Julio Lopez-Gallardo, Tracy Mott, Geert Reuten, Zvi Schloss, Nina Shapiro, Geoff Tily, Tadeusz Kowalik and Randy Wray. I am grateful to Mary French-Sokol for advice on Jeremy Bentham and his writings; to Ian King and Claudia Jefferies for their assistance in translating Marek Breit’s 1935 article from German; and to David Cobham, Gary Dymski, Susan Howson, John King, Andy Denis, Alfredo Saad-Filho, Warren Samuels and Geoff Harcourt for comments on...</span><br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-size: small;">Interview for a book on Google Books about car sharing. The </span></div>
</blockquote>
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1998</span></b><br />
<blockquote>
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">Thanked for reading a first edition draft of <i>Measuring Inequality</i></span> <span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a href="http://darp.lse.ac.uk/papersDB/Cowell_measuringinequality3.pdf">http://darp.lse.ac.uk/papersDB/Cowell_measuringinequality3.pdf</a></span></blockquote>
<hr />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The grant in Fishman's name for a longtitudinal study of redundant tyre workers funded data that was used later by ex-colleagues http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-94-015-8080-9_28<br />
<fieldset>
The reason for interest is that I went on <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">a dodgy economics course in the middle of a UK financial crisis in 1984</a>, an experience people complain-about during this recent financial crisis. I wonder what the problem is, and write the odd blog post about it. The chief of the department in 1984 didn't have a clue. I found out more about him. The main post is <br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html</a><br />
<br />
The course lacked tutorials and emphasised stupid things like<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>non-computerised statistics taught in 1984-7 to take-up most of a very short course, taught without real live examples</li>
<li>micro-economics without real live examples</li>
<li>obviously un-true theories of macro-economics: the ISLM diagram that seems to show demand leading to something good, although in fact it leads to lots of imports and the investment side of the diagram doesn't quite make sense</li>
<li>obviously un-true theory of macro-economics: the idea that interest rates can be manipulated to reduce use of credit in an economy and make it more real, particularly in how people bid-up wage rates and cause inflation, had never had much to do with reality. As with the previous model, a higher interest rate just raises the value of the currency and sucks-in imports, closing factories for good rather than lowering their staff wages</li>
<li>fairly un-true theory that the momentum of annual pay bargains can be a factor in raising prices. (In the 1970s, plenty of industries did their pay bargaining like ASLEF and Transport for London today, and got on the news a lot. The most frequent strikes were in shipyards, but the car manufacturers were a better emblem to report and had plenty of strikes too - often as an outlet for frustration at a maddening job, rather than directly for pay according to someone I saw interviewed about Ford at Dagenham.) Despite the headlines, it was known in the 1980s that inflation was caused by OPEC oil price rises in the 1970s, a point lost on the textbooks from America and taught as though a sensible and informed point of view.</li>
<li>zero emphasis on job skills or anything else except cheap face-to-face drilling of exam-flunkers like me, in case enough of us passed the degree exam to keep the course open another year. </li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
It's nice to see that other people didn't dislike him - they remember him as the person in the V-neck jumper who has to be mentioned because he helped make things happen, even if he didn't do anything himself but survive prejudice and hold down a career. They judge him against other economics professors, and the sad thing is that the lot of them were just as bad and continue to be so.</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">I discover mundane things.</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><b>Fishman knew about academic independence in the 1940s-60s</b>. He was spokesmen for the non-senate staff at Berkley on that issue. <b>He lost his ability to test the limits in the 1980s</b>, declaring off the top of his head that <i>"we have to teach this stuff in order to call this an economics degree",</i> while giving a revision lecture in an obviously untrue piece of macro-economics. In 2016 is nothing on the Quality Assurance Agency web site to say that this theory has to be taught, nor any law.</li>
<li><b>Fishman was able to report on current affairs in 1960 when he used congressional hearings</b> on growth for a long article and teaching notes too I suppose. <b>He had lost this ability in 1980 when 365 economists signed a letter to The Times</b> about a new economic policy, and he didn't seem aware of it; he said "we used to believe in Keynsian solutions; now we believe in Monetarist solution" once in one of his classes.</li>
<li><b>Fishman only got things published when he was new in a job,</b> possibly because it was hard work for anyone to get an article accepted. His publications were sometimes in obscure journals or an issue one volume one for one of them. Every economics teacher probably had the same trouble, but he had the extra un-known factor that maybe his scripts were rejected because of his politics. <b>He lost his ability to publish anything interesting when he got a job at Keele</b>. This could be because a short course only allows teachers to cover that standard ground; there isn't much chance to write on a specialist topic.</li>
<li><b>Fishman used computer software, or similar in 1966</b>, to record a database on punched cards at the statistics laboratory of University of Boulder, Colorado. <b>He lost his ability to teach it or use it when SPSS when it became a major job qualification for social science researchers, even when a PC version came-out in 1984</b>.</li>
<li><b>Fishman was able to report on unemployment in the late 1960s</b> with two contracts to anticipate what would happen around Denver, or to redundant Boing and arms factory tyre workers. He'd done similar technocratic work for a union organsation <b>He lost his ability to talk about unemployment in the 1980s</b> when UK unemployment was nearly as bad as the 1930s, dispite getting a grant to research redundant Michelin tyre factory workers about the time he retired.</li>
<li><b>Fishman liked a subject called "institutional economics"</b> and studied Thorsten Veblen's account of academics setting themselves up like a catholic church hierarchy as a bit of a scam. <b>He lost his ability later in life, using phrases like "we used to believe", "now we believe"</b> about his invisible friends and teaching un-usable statistics in exactly the way Thorsten Veblen ridiculed. Even in the 60s he started one of his journal articles with a latin name.</li>
<li><b>Fishman knew about teach-ins with free-flowing debate</b>, or his colleague Doug Dowden's free classes to anyone who would turn-up in Los Angeles. People might have given him work in hope of something similar. But <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/jun/30/uk-universities-better-education-dont-be-seduced-by-us">US colleges don't bother with tutorials apparently</a>. If Fishman did a few, his commitments to move-around the world would have made them rare. <b>He lost the ability later in life, skipping any tutorials in the 1980s</b> dispite telling a colleague that he believed in them.</li>
<li><b>Fishman showed no insight into his condition. He did not consider himself a rogue trader</b>, nor was seen as one, but as a kindly old man who continued to offer free comment to one or two people who asked for it until shortly before his death. He did OK by the standards of economics professors at the time. One journal - the one that published his first long article - has something about self-censorship and the sniffling effects of McArthyism on American universities and their students as well as their teachers. It's in the next issue after Fishman's piece. There's something next to Fishman's piece called "Is Higher Education a Hoax?"</li>
</ul>
</fieldset>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-60324059670314872112012-10-17T14:06:00.008+01:002018-10-21T10:24:23.370+01:00Leslie Fishman articles<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Moved to <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html</a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-62361930679974031602012-10-17T14:06:00.003+01:002018-10-19T10:45:12.089+01:00Bitcoin notes in progress<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Bitcoin lending - pounds to bitcoin and back - bitcoin value - buying things in shops with bitcoin - a link about <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/matched-betting.html">matched betting</a> that might work in bitcoin</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&q=bitcoin+lending">bitcoin lending</a></span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="http://www.badbitcoin.org/">badbitcoin.org</a> - lists the deliberate fraud bitcoin lending sites or a general safelist. The ones listed below aren't that bad - they're not deliberate frauds<br />
<a href="http://www.cryptocoinzone.com/bitcoin-lending"><br />
cryptocoinzone.com/bitcoin-lending</a> - reviews<br />
<br />
The only places worth a look are exchanges where you can lend to traders and BTCpop.<br />
<br />
bitfinex - I had trouble getting money into it<br />
bitmex - this one is not quite lending<b></b><br />
poloniex.com/lending#BTC - <a href="https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@cryptomancer/how-to-earn-passive-income-from-lending-your-bitcoin-on-poloniex">good review</a> <br />
Quoine - lower rates<br />
https://liqui.io/Interest - planned but not yet working<br />0.066% daily fixed so no need for an autolend robot 24% apr<br />
https://www.earnforex.com/blog/tutorial-bitcoin-investment-in-margin-lending/ review</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Polobot is one free way of lending with a better autolend than is built-in to the site.<br />
Cryptolend is another that covers the top four sites on the list<br />
<br />
Accounting for tax looks tricky with the one free accounting service -Libre- only offering a diagram before you have to pay $19 a year. So maybe best to stick to one exchange.<br />
<br />
https://www.cryptocoincharts.info/markets/info is a list of all exchanges but doesn't mention if any others allow lending to margin traders. Some who try to link to debit cards and Cryyptopia of New Zealand who try to add an ebay-like site, not much used in the UK. They are listed by turnover and I checked all the ones with turnover in June 2017. Quoine offers robots for trading if I understand any of this at all <i>"Bitcoin Futures Trading: -More sophisticated trading stragies with Bitcoin futures on select markets. Algo Trading: - Currently offering Vanilla Icebergs. More algo strategies soon to be added."</i><br />
<br />
<a href="http://bit.ly/2qjXeXo">BTCpop</a> - small and tekkie - two current loans with decent ratings<br />
- All the loans are quoted in bitcoin, so if bitcoin falls, the borrowers default I suppose.<br />
- Most loans are unfiltered and not worth a look. Coincash or some name like that counted as class A and offered 50% so I gave it a try<br />
- A one person operation that pays whatever interest he feels like paying on a current account, supposedly to finance the loans on the site but probably for lending on Polonex or such.<br />
<strike><br />
BTCjam </strike>Closed 27th May 2017<br />
<a href="http://bit.ly/2qW3Flr"><br />
Bitbond</a> - <span style="color: red;">bad</span> tried it - returns of <span style="color: red;">-12%</span> on dollar loans and <span style="color: red;">minus 16%</span> on BTC loans. Most of the loans are un-filtered. Auto lending requires one bitcoin un-invested to start with.<br />
<br />
https://bitlendingclub.com <span style="color: red;">bad</span> shows no live loans if you haven't made a deposit - just a "no loans found" screen, while the auto-lend suggests 5-7% returns.<br />
<br />
Stemfund - no current loans likely to fill<br />
<br />
https://bnktothefuture.com/search/pitches<br />
sell shares that can only be re-sold at the next funding round. The small print is strict about no way to advertise these shares to other buyers "unless they are following you" (?) and a 5% transfer fee even if you do find a buyer. There isn't a way you can sell them on a bit stock exchange.<br />
<br />
Both of these are new in 2016-17<br />
<br />
https://crediblefriends.com/ <span style="color: red;">bad</span> android web program for lending bitcoin and dollars at about 25%, possibly something to do with a dollar VISA card. You find the borrowers and "The company generates revenue by taking 40 percent of the interest and fees. This leaves lenders with 15% APR". “We're also partnering with collection agencies and adding the option for lenders to submit past-due accounts to collections,” they told a blog in August 2016, so it might not happen or cost extra.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
https://getline.in <span style="color: red;">bad</span> - password reset doesn't work - two loans with any kind of reference, one called Tedy is a trader and gambler who wants 0.10000% paid monthly.Highest offer to him is 1% a month of 12%+ compounding a year.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
https://nebeus.com/ <span style="color: red;">bad</span> accepts a load of offers to borrow from strangers, without credit rating except this - http://kb.nebeus.com/hc/en-us/articles/208746365-The-Borrower-s-rank-and-available-Loan-amounts - which is just a way of counting previous loans per ID. There is nothing about taking people to court if they don't pay. Apart from bitcoin you can load euro into their Estonian account by bank transfer. <br />
<br />
https://loanbase.com/en - software for lending sites; moved its own lending to bitlendingclub above <br />
<br />
<strike>https://bitconnect.co/bitcoin-information/19/investing-in-bitconnect-lending</strike> - the rates look too high to be true - http://www.marketingxtreme.net/bitconnect-review/ - bad review<br />
<br />
<a href="https://xcoins.io/">https://xCoins.io</a> - I signed-up to login - it wants paypal details - I left it at that</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Pounds to Bitcoin and back</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://uphold.com/en/pricing">Uphold.com/en/pricing</a> - 0.75% - bank transfer only for UK residents - 3-5 working day transfer of money to their bank in Portugal. Smile bank can't send pounds to a IBAN online so that's ruled-out for now. Credit and debit cards are temporarily unavailable.<br />
<br />
https://support.uphold.com/hc/en-us/articles/205803186-How-to-add-and-withdraw-funds-via-bank-transfer-Europe- suggest sending euro to the euro card at whatever rate Smile Bank charges - about £8 I think.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
- 0.6% £ to € US$ - higher rates for gold or rupees. They will only pay bank transfers to an account in your name. <br />
<br />
Often show in the top few listings on bittybot and bitbargain. Each currency account is called a "card" but only the $US one can be made to work as a virtual mastercard for a 5% fee, and it is blocked for use in a <a href="https://support.uphold.com/hc/en-us/articles/215179126-Which-countries-are-blocked-for-Virtual-MasterCard-issuance-and-use-">list</a> of countries like Italy and Ukraine. Others have value linked to precious metals or currencies, with cheap conversion from one to another.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://uphold.com/en/apps/app/netki" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline;">https://uphold.com/en/apps/app/netki</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> lets you personalise a bitcoin address as in ip to url</span></span><br />
<br />
<a href="http://help.bitbond.com/article/42-where-can-i-buy-and-sell-bitcoins?utm_source=bitbond&utm_medium=button&utm_term=sell-btc&utm_campaign=sell-btc">http://help.bitbond.com/article/42-where-can-i-buy-and-sell-bitcoins?utm_source=bitbond&utm_medium=button&utm_term=sell-btc&utm_campaign=sell-btc</a> looks a good article at a glance</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"> </span></span><a href="https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2109597-buy-sell-bank-transfer-fees">Coinbase</a> - easy but expensive; can't convert back to pounds - sometimes doesn't pop-up a 3D secure screen that it needs for a vastercard. They quote 1½% by bank transfer or 4% with a card, including credit cards, and no instructions for bank transfer, so that's 4%. Otherwise the rates quoted are OK - the costs just seem to add up to a lot like £12 on a maximum weekly allowed payment of £300. So if you know the first day of your month's free credit you might get a little back by using a cashback vastercard and using it on that day.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://bitbargain.co.uk/buy">Bitbargain.co.uk/buy</a> - finds cheap; harder sellers to use<br />
<br />
<a href="http://bittybot.co/uk/">Bittybot.co/uk/</a> - same. The hard bit is that a trader's page will read "only for experienced users with checked ID and a track record", or "minimum £300", or both. This or Bittylicious looks promising for people who sign-up with ID. I'm not sure which. The one with a floodlight typeface logo.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://localbitcoins.com/">Localbitcoins.com/</a> - same. "UK" means "London Victoria" on their map. Possibly able to do ID verification for the whole site<br />
<br />
<a href="https://paxful.com/buy-bitcoin/with-any-payment-method/GBP?fiat-min=0#content">https://paxful.com/buy-bitcoin/with-any-payment-method/GBP?fiat-min=0#content</a><br />
a market for pounds to bitcoin sorted by payment method and price<br />
<br />
Square - some kind of software you can download to become trusted on these sites -error message on Win32 - Safari cannot download on Ios<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">expensive</span><br />
https://www.okpay.com/en/personal/fees/ - expensive<br />
<br />
https://www.coincorner.com/Fees - expensive<br />
<br />
https://cex.io/fee-schedule#/tab/payments - expensive</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bitcoin to debit card</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
https://www.cryptocompare.com/wallets/#/cards<br />
https://www.weusecoins.com/bitcoin-debit-cards/ some reviews from the US<br />
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410577.0 thread - one person says there are bitcoin exchanges that will exchange to "fiat" (? pounds) and then pay in to a normal bank account. These cheaper with better exchange rates.<br />
<br />
https://paycent.io/faq/ cheap but not working yet - just a cashpoint fee planned<br />
<br />
https://bit.cards/#content_home - $20 card with a currency conversion and cashpoint fee<br />
<br />
https://coinomat.com/cards.php a €16 debit card that charges about €3 to load or at a cashpoint, and 55cents at other points of sale. The $US version isn't working and there is no £ version<br />
<br />
https://coinsbank.com/cards -<a href="https://coinsbank.com/cards-details"> very expensive</a></blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bitcoin value</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Has gone up, then down, then up. It is a pattern like commodity prices, suggesting that the thing is often used for commodity trading with the same to bubbles and bust. 30% up and 25% down in the last week for example, which was unusual, and odd in having a platau at the top of the graph as well. The bubble followed news of encouragement of bitcoin in Japan and discouragement of bitcoin mining in China I think - there are free email newsletters with this kind of information in them.<br />
<br />
Bitcoins are better than commodities because you can lend them while you own them. Commodities just sit there rent-free.<br />
<br />
There is also a value for use in transactions, and nobody knows what this is. Apparently there is a finite number of bitcoins, and of bitcoin addresses which seem to be used-up like confetti. There is also an industry writing bitcoin software; they suit that kind of thing because of free accounting and low transaction costs. Different to other currencies like sea shells for example.</blockquote>
<h4 style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-top: 18pt; text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bitcoin shops</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
https://www.cryptocompare.com/spend/guides/where-to-spend-your-bitcoins/</div>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-top: 18pt; text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bitcoin account</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="text-align: left;">
https://app.libratax.com/transactions - just a spreadsheet - might be limited to 100 transactions<br />
https://cointracking.info </div>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 6pt; margin-top: 18pt; text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;">Bitcoin to shops by scanning a QR bar code on an invoice/receipt to a bitcoin wallet</span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">maybe coinbase is fine</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Uphold doesn’t work on my phone</span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><br class="kix-line-break" /></span><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Loads of other wallets - Bee wallet works with uphold b<span style="font-family: inherit;">ut doesn't help put pounds in<span style="font-family: inherit;">to uphold</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Bird<span style="font-family: inherit;">snest De<span style="font-family: inherit;">ptford,</span> Pember<span style="font-family: inherit;">y Tavern Hackney, <strike>Old Nun's head <span style="font-family: inherit;">Peckham</span></strike><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Purse.io</span></span></span> set to about 5%<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Overstock is set-up to work for the UK but has nothing you'd want.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Cex.io is expensive compared to ebay</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="http://veganline.com/">Veganline.com for vegan shoes online</a> is open to offers and has a <span style="font-family: inherit;">bitcoin address - just <span style="font-family: inherit;">email shop@ for a quote</span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: red;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/matched-betting.html" title="Matched betting notes in progress - not backed by experience">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/01/matched-betting.html</a></span></h4>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
There is not much money to be made by bitcoin matched betting as far as I can guess from the odd blog post, but there are bitcoin gambling web sites on the link above.</blockquote>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-87873478294456216532012-10-13T19:36:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:24:30.466+01:00Drupal 7 / Ubercart Video Tutorial 7 of 10: catalog<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<iframe allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" frameborder="0" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xXdyI2yyxDU" width="560"></iframe><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x#S1E7">http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x#S1E7</a><br />In this 7th of 10 drupal video tutorial on creating an e-commerce site,
we continue by creating products including shippable products, purchased
roles and downloadable products. Once done, we take a look at
configuring the catalog which includes examining the taxonomy system in
drupal.]</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">The next video 8 will show how to over-ride the default catalog module and write new product attributes, with a chance to expose a product filter to the shoppers...</span><br />
<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-6-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 6 of 10 showing how to set UPS, Paypal, and conditional taxes</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] <br />
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"></span><br />
<hr />
<br />
Hullo and welcome back to the seventh video tutorial in this ten part video tutorial series on creating an ecommerce site using Drupal [7] and Ubercart. I am P Yaworski the author of [? sturctural analysiing in Drupal ] and, like all the video tutorials in this series, this is brought to you in <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">collaboration between myself and the Ubercart.org</a> guys, who suggested it; thought it would be a good idea to get it out-there for new users of Drupal and Ubercart. So lets get - er: let's get started.<br />
<br />
Hopefully you've already viewed the first six video tutorials so I'm not going to re-hash those. But we've got a site set-up; we've got it configured, and we're ready now to create some products. <br />
..so..<br />
There will be three different products, which we are going to create. Firstly there are<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><i>shippable products</i>, and </li>
<li><i>purchasable roles</i>, and then </li>
<li><i>file downloads</i>.</li>
</ol>
<div style="text-align: left;">
..but...<br />
Before we do that we actually need to do is take a look at the <i>product content type</i> that gets set-up by default when we install ubercart.<br />
..so..<br />
To do that we are going to go-over to <i>Structure>Content Type>Product</i><br />
and we are going to take a look at <i>Product</i> to begin with.<br />
(..so..you need to ignore these security updates: obviously some updates from Drupal have just come out)<br />
..so..<br />
Let's walk-through what we've got here on the <i>Product</i>. First thing's first: a product field which is actualy referred to as <i>Name</i>. ..so.. Why don't I call this a <i>"product name"</i>? Right. So you can change that . <i>Preview before submitting</i>. I'm going to change that to disabled, because I am going to be creating the products so I don't have to preview those, so that's fine. Publishing Options. I don't want mine promoted to the front page. What that actually does, is: by default if you're using Drupal, it will create a stream of your published front page nodes on your front page. So it just pulls those in, newest being the first. So we saw on the front page there at the beginning, it was the product there that was promoted to the front page. ..so.. I'm not going to use that. What you could do is create your own front page on another node of the site: "checkout my store" - that kind of thing, so you won't be necessarillly using that. If you want to: by all means: you'll see all your products on you're front page as you're adding them, but I want more control. <br />
<br />
Another thing: I don't like to display the author and date on products; I don't think it's required. <br />
I also don't want any comment-things: I'm just going to close that.<br />
<br />
My Title. Remember: we set this up just briefly - pre requisiting that we have set up our page titles and configured our search engine optimisation, you can see here that this will just pull-in the defaults, including our current page and then our site name. If we want to put something specific we can just do it, if we've got some seach-engine optimisation that we want to do. You can also control the fields and let it happen, or we can do it specifically for each product.<br />
<br />
One thing we should note is that product and its derivatives are shippable. So, by default: all our products can be shipped...and..<br />
The <i>Product Image Field</i>, if you have multiple images. By default the product just has one: we are just using the image itself.<br />
My Sitemap is going to include all our products.<br />
So I am going to save that product.<br />
<br />
<br />
So with that, we are just going to talk about the actual fields. And I'm just briefly going to talk about these: I'm sure you know what we're talking about here. ..So.. Remember we've got our catalog set-up? We enabled that amongst our modules, so that is what we see here. [3'00"] The catalog is actually based on Taxonomy Terms, so we are going to walk-through that in a bit: the catalog is actually a vocabulary, and you can add some terms to that. <br />
<br />
Additionally we've got the image here - that was what we were talking about before: you see product image. You could add additional fields if you wanted to. It's beyond the scope of this video tutorial series, but it's an option that I just want to make you aware of.<br />
<br />
Before we move on, I'm just going to show you this select list here, because this is going to have some implications for your site. ..so... We go to the "widget type" for your product catalog. It goes to this little select list. So you get to pre-populate your different taxonomy terms for your catalog. .So, you know, if you have: - What we are going to do as an example here is: we are going to have pictures of my dog Baily, pictures of my dog Suzie and these are going to be different terms. If we wanted to do free tagging so we are constantly adding new types of prodducts, what you want to do is choose that one, and type it in as you go: it will get added-in. You can add multiple tags for one product. Or, with the select list, you just kind-of pre-populate that. So just be aware of that when you go ahead and you are using that.<br />
<br />
<br />
The next thing we're going to take a look at is just the Manage Display. The reason we're going to do that is that you can change your labels here. So you might not necessarilly want your labels for your image, so that could be hidden.<br />
....<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">uc_product</span>...<br />
this will actually scale your product to different sizes of images - so uc_product is what we are using. <br />
<br />
So normally I would save my configuration, because I have changed this to a hidden label, but I don't really care. An additional thing too - and I think we said that in a previous video tutorial - is that you have display price and price, so you see the price twice on your actual products. If you want to remove that, just remove the sale price or the display price, assuming that they are both the same: I have not shown you different prices yet, but that's an option there, so just be aware of that.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
So let's go ahead and actually create some products. [5.00]<br />
So the first product we are going to create is pretty easy, pretty basic; it's a shippable product. So, you remember, wev'e got UPS set-up ; we've got payments set-up as well, so with UPS we can add-in our weights and all that kind of thing. So lets go ahead and do that. So we'll call this - um - you know: we actually going to make this a shippable product, so we will call it a "T shirt with Baily's photo". [types text] "Buy your very own T shirt with Bayley's picture printed on it". Right? And So we will go ahead and we will choose a file. I've got one here with a nice big smile on it; it will probably take a bit of time to load.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Catalog menu </span><br />
You'll see here a catalog [drop down menu left of screen towards the top].I've gone-ahead and I've added -er- Baily [to the items on the drop-down] term. So: I'll have to show you how to add new terms. But that's why I could choose that. So my SKU is going tot be BAILY_SHIRT; sale price is going to be a whapping $9.99 . And here [a ticked box under "list price" marked "product is shippable"] I want my product to be shippable so that's going ahead. The weight is going to be 0.5 lbs and the length is going to be - I've no idea - 24 inches? ; width 20 inches? Height 1 inch. Maximum package quanitity: so you can fit 50 [T shirts] in my boxes. ..So.. All of that is required information if you are going to be shipping with UPS. If you don't add this in, you are going to get problems. So if you are having issues providing [shipping or postatge] quotes, it's likely [to be] because you did not provide a weight or dimension for your product. ..So..<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #3d85c6;">Shippping settings here. </span><br />
Your "package type" is going to be dependent on what your shipping arrangement is with UPS so we'll just select "store default packaging" and leave that there. The "default shipping type" [selected]. Don't worry about that too often unless you're doing something special. I know that I only have small packages set-up, so, for a default [option], that's going to be fine.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Default Pickup Address.</span> This is one thing to note. You'll remember when we were talking about shipping with UPS and recieving errors on your quotes if your default pickup address is not correct? So if you set that up and is wasn't correct, your first product would actually be picking-up your default settings. Then when you go to troubleshoot you change your default store settings. And you <u>have</u> to come back into this. So it's a little bit complicated, but if you are running-into issues with this, make sure to check that.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Weight Quote</span><br />
Shipping by weight: if I want to change my weight quote, so that this is a $2 added, rather than a default, I can go ahead and do that. <br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Flat Rate Shipping Quote</span><br />
...and my flat rate: if I want to make that product-specific: I can do ahead and do that as well. The other things that we have...<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;">Metatags<span style="color: black;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black;">These were all already using our defaults, which we set-up previously when we were doing our menus. So we're good.</span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;">URL path settings</span><br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black;">same as our url path settings which we've done already so we don't really need to customise that, so all that we really need to do is go ahead and press save our product.</span></span></span><br />
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />
Right: so here's a pre-set [image ize of a dog]. Right. Actually I uploaded a huge image. It [ubercart] has resized it. <br />
I've seen that it's cataloged in "Baily". You'll see that I've got my SKU ["Tshirt_with_bailey's_photo"] and my one - my <i>two</i> prices - you'll remember I left them there, so I've god <i>display price</i> and <i>list price,</i> and it shows all my <i>dimensions</i> and that kind of thing. So that's my new product. That's a shippable product: very easy to create, and if you click on my <i>Catalog</i> you'll see that I've got my catalog [of] "Bailey", and then I've got two <i>product terms</i> that are tagged as "Baily".<br />
..so..<br />
While we are looking at that, I'm just going to show you how we set up the <i>Taxonomy Term</i>, although I'm sure I've done this previously... but ..<br />
STRUCTURE>TAXONOMY>PRODUCT </div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
...here. You will see that I've got the one [Product]Type. I've got Bailey. If I want to add additional ones I'll just go to <span style="color: #0b5394;">+Add Term</span> <br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">NAME</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Suzie</span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">DESCRIPTION</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Products related to Suzie.</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Right. So</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">META TAGS</span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">-</span></span></span></span></span></span></span> </span>meta tags: - er: the Suzie page will have its own meta-information.<span style="font-family: inherit;"> Remember when we were looking at the catalog for Bailey: we're looking at the catalog for Suzie.</span> This is all <i>meta-information.</i><br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">URL PATH SETTINGS</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">- url path settings: we could change the url path.</span></span> </span></span>This will all be automatically done, so we are not going to do that.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">IMAGES: Choose File</span><br />
- images: If we wanted to add an image to the actual catalog that we saw there, we can find a good picture of little Suzie (from a linked directory of thumbnail sized photos). So let's see if we have a good one here.There we go. So I'll just upload that. So while that image is uploading we'll just go ahead and press<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save </span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeeee;"></span></span></span></span><br />
- Save: so we've added a term now which we can see as it starts coming-in. If we go back to the catalog now you'll see that we've got "Bailey" and thenn we've got "Suzie".<br />
<br />
<br />
..so...<br />
let's go back and create a new <i>Product</i>, and we'll make this our purchasable role. ..so .. We'll call this a<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product Name </span><br />
Site Membership. <br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Description (<span style="color: #0b5394;">Edit Summery</span>)</span><br />
Become a member to ucwebdeveloper.com<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Choose File</span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">- so, we choose an image </span></span>- whatever image we want - here: another image of Bailey.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Upload File</span></span></span></span></span><br />
-we'll put this in the Suzie catalog this time.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">SKU<span style="color: red;">*</span></span> <br />
- we'll call that Membership.<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Sell price<span style="color: red;">*</span></span> <br />
- Sell Price is a whapping $99.99<br />
We don't have to worry about our shipping settings because it's not shippable.<br />
We don't have to worry about our menus. So let's go ahead<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save and Continue</span></span></span></span></span><br />
And we will save and continue.<br />
So now, as a slight detour, what we are going to do is: remember when we did earlier tutorials, we enabled <i>site roles</i> to be purchased? And when we did that we created a "site member" role here? Well if you don't have that, you can just type in here. So you have that.<br />
<br />
So now, when we go to our actual product, what we are going to do is go to<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Features</span></span></span></span></span> (third button of three after product and attribute on the edit product menu)<br />
Features.<br />
And we are going to add a role assignment [from a drop down menu]<br />
And this is going to be a<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">SKU<span style="color: red;"></span></span><br />
SKU: Membership<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Role</span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: red;"></span></span><br />
The role is going to be "site member"<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Shippable Product [tick box not ticked]</span> <br />
It's not associated with a shippable product<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Default <span style="color: #0b5394;">Role Exploration</span> [tick box not ticked]</span><br />
And we've not going to over-ride the default role exploration.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save Feature </span></span></span></span></span><br />
So we're just going to go ahead and save that feature.<br />
And now this role - this assignment - is associated with our product "Membership".<br />
If you don't have that configured already, you're going to have to go into<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">PRODUCTS</span><br />
It should easily drop down but it didn't. And then you go into role assignment, where you can do every thing about your role assigment. Again, that was in...<br />
ADMIN>STORE>SETTINGS>PRODUCTS>CONFIGURATION>PRODUCTS>ROLE ASSIGNMENT<br />
Again: very simple to create.<br />
We then go to our catalog<br />
We go into "Suzie".<br />
We have a site membership, with a SKU, a title; we can add that to the cart. I reckon that if you click into it you can actually check that out. So: very simple to creat roles.<br />
<br />
And so our last thing we are going to do is that we are going to create a product that is associated with a file download. So we are going to go to <br />
ADD CONTENT>PRODUCT<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Product Name </span><br />
Product Name: product name is going to be "download of pictures".<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Description (<span style="color: #0b5394;">Edit Summery</span>) </span><br />
"download a zip file of amazing Bailey and Suzie pictures"<br />
Right: so we are going to associate a photo with this again - if we want to. <br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Choose File</span></span></span></span></span><br />
[chooses a file from a directory of thumbnail pictures]<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Upload File</span></span></span></span></span> <br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #0b5394;"> Product Information></span></span>SKU<span style="color: red;">*</span></span><br />
SKU: we'll call that "file upload"<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #0b5394;">Product Information></span></span>Product is Shippable [tick box]</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: red;"></span></span><br />
Product is not shippable.<br />
And we have all our metatags set-up so we'll go ahead and click<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save and Continue</span></span></span></span></span> [12'52"]<br />
So now, what we're going to do is that we are going to head back to the<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;"> Features</span></span></span></span></span> <br />
Features, as we did before.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Add</span></span></span></span></span><br />
and we're going to add a file download.<br />
So: a couple of things to note. Obviously our [demonstration] got into it properly here but you might have some issues. So, if you are having problems: go back to your<br />
SITE CONFIGURATION>PRODUCTS<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #0b5394;">File Download Settings</span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Files Path </span><br />
So you'll see [that] your products really exist in a specific folder. So you'll see that mine really exist. They're outside of the root, which is what Ubercart recommend you do for security reasons, so mine is "../private" .<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">[ ]Warn about purchasing duplicate files</span><br />
It's going to warn about purchasing diplicate files<br />
etc etc<br />
And they have seven days to download their files.<br />
So make sure that's all configured.<br />
So with that set-up, you now have to go to <br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"> </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Products > View File Uplaods</span><br />
And here is where you can actually perform file uploads. Right. So. You can manually upload files, through this interface. You go to <span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Perform Action</span></span></span></span></span>.You are going to choose whether to select a file and choose to select it.<br />
The other thing you can do is that you can FTP into your site, and you can just upload the files. So Readme.txt happened to be in that folder. I went ahead and I uploaded via FTP backupandmigrate - the backup and migrate module - and ends-up showing up here. So that's a nice little time saver. You can upload fifteen different files that you want to download, and do it all at once. <br />
..so...<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">SKU </span><br />
SKU is associated with the file download [by using a drop down menu]<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">File Dowload </span><br />
File Download: this is what we are doing. The file we want is called Backup... [chooses from list] Right: so if you can't remember the name, you can go back to File Download and you will see it.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Description </span><br />
Description: "awsome photos of Bailey and Suzie." I've done a typo. Don't really care.<br />
Not shipping.<br />
And we are not going to over-ride any limits.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save and Continue</span></span></span></span></span> <br />
So we can go ahead and save that feature.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">View</span></span></span></span></span> <br />
And now we can go and View.<br />
So now anybody who actually purchases this: they are going to have the ability to download products.<br />
And we are going to see how that actually happens in a future video tutorial. Right now we're just setting everything up. We'll be testing later.<br />
So those are our three different product types that we have created. The last thing we are going to do is we are going to it take a look at the Catalog, which we enabled.<br />
<br />
Just a quick note here: I'm not a huge fan of the catalog. I prefer to do this all manually myself because that way I feel like I have a little bit more control. What the catalog does is essentially to create Views for you. It will create the Taxonomies for you, and it will create all your pages associated with that. One thing I don't like about the catalog (so if you remember, we chose or we got Catalog here slash Bailey. And the reason for that is, if we go to Configuration>Sytem... no: sorry. Go to search - meta - url aliases - patterns... <br />
<br />
We've got our catalog/termname<br />
But it's also a taxonomy<br />
So it's a Vocab/termname.<br />
<br />
And what ends up happening when we do that is that we get catalog/bailey which is appropriate for catalog, and if I go dash-zero [types -0 on the end] , I get a different look to the same page. Right? I get these three different products; it's a proper page. It's catalog slash bailey.<br />
<br />
<br />
The reason for that is that catalog/bailey, as I said before, and catalog/bailey-0 is the taxonomy view, which by default comes with Drupal's taxonomy modules. So: a bit of a problem there. I like to avoid this myself so I just use taxonomies. In a future video tutorial - video tutorial eight - I shall show you the advanced way that I like to do this. But for now, I'm just going to walk you through using the catalog.<br />
<br />
STRUCTURE>TAXONOMY>CATALOG<br />
So, that said, when you checkout the taxonomy, we can go to catalog, and you'll see our terms - right - then we can go ahead and edit those.<br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Manage Fields</span> tab <br />
And also <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Manage Fields</span> And so, you'll see here that I've got a <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Machine Name</span>, and I've got <span style="color: #0b5394;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Image</span></span>. And so, you know that any time when we've got an image, we have to make sure that the display is going to be proper. So if we go over to <span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Manage Display</span> , you'll see here that I have "<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">image style </span><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">uc-catalog</span>" by default.This is just the image itself, so that if you upload a massive one, you are going to get a massive one. So you want to change that. I chose <span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">uc_category</span> which was automatically created for this purpose. So I am going to go ahead and update that.<br />
<span style="background-color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;"><span style="color: #eeeeee;"><span style="background-color: #cccccc;"><span style="color: black;">Save</span></span></span></span></span> <br />
And go ahead and save that.<br />
Right. So you know how to add terms to your vocabulary and you know how to change images.<br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">STORE>CONFIGURATION>CATALOG>EDIT CATALOG DISPLAY</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;">Catalog Display: Table<br />Catalog Display: Grid</span><br />
The other thing that's worth stating and of note is that when you go to Catalog, you can acatually change the catalog display to a grid from a table. And this is all based on <i>Views</i>. In the next video tutorial I'll show you how to create my own custom views. But - going back - if you wanted to manipulate this you would go here and you can just edit the view itself. And its all in the UC structure [from the admin drop down menu] Catalog. Catalog is what we see here. The catalog terms is actually when we go into here. You'll see the products. So if I went in to edit this view [by clicking on the top right of a rectangle round it] Right. You can see all the fields here. So if I wanted to add dimansions I could go ahead and just add the dimensions on the table; it's all available here.<br />
..again..<br />
Getting into the nitty-gritty of the change of the view view is beyond the scope of this tutorial. You will get a taste for Views in the next video tutorial when we go ahead and I show you the different system that I like to use. But Catalog does provide you with a nice option right out of the box, obviously, without much configuration, I go into Catalog and I see all of my products kind of lined-up nicely. The reason we have this empty bar here [18'30"] is that we have a table; we don't have a third - a third term to create. So if I did that, your table would look a lot cleaner. But if I go into Bailey, you will see that all the Bailey products are already listed. It's nice. It's clean. It's pretty simple. So: don't be afraid to use the Catalog, but I'll show you a little bit more of a powerful technique in the next video tutorial.<br />
<br />
So: hope this helps. Please, as always, leave a comment or a thumbs-up on You-tube: that would be awsome; really appreciated. I've been getting a tonne of positive comments: keep them coming. Its always good to know that these help you. So: if you would like to see anything changed, please leave a comment and let me know. And with that, we will see you in the next video tutorial.<br />
<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #cc0000;"> ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦</span><br />
<a name='more'></a><h2 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Tutorial 8 of 10: Overriding the Catalog and Creating Product Attributes</a></h2>
<div style="text-align: left;">
There is a better transcript on another page of this site.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html</a><br />
<br />
I'll delete the page from here-on soon,</div>
<span style="color: #cc0000;">♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦</span><br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-87659318368704903822012-08-10T15:57:00.005+01:002018-10-21T10:24:31.870+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="color: #351c75;"><span style="font-size: large;">UBERCART ATTRIBUTES</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #351c75;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: black;">are things that buyers attribute to a product; size 10 or giftwrap.</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #351c75;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: black;">I know this because my dozen intrinsic characteristics didn't display well. Each one like "made in UK" had a box underneath it as though the customer was meant to say "yes" or "no" when the deed is already done. </span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #351c75;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: black;">One of the series on Ubercart.org describes attributes in a more organised way. Apparently they have options:</span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #351c75;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: black;">Attribute could be colour ; Option could be red..</span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;">There doesn't seem to be any subtlety about use of language to describe <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/07/shopkeeper-puzzle-how-products-are.html">different relationships between products</a>. These words are just pulled-out of a thesaurus.</span></div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-20954610433447319262012-08-10T09:25:00.003+01:002018-10-19T13:38:00.370+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/916212">https://drupal.org/node/916212</a> is a page about themes.<br />
<div class="clearfix" id="console">
<div class="messages error">
<h2 class="element-invisible">
</h2>
<span style="font-size: large;"><em class="placeholder" style="color: #cc0000;">Error message </em></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><em class="placeholder">Notice</em>: Undefined index: base theme in <em class="placeholder">system_find_base_themes()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2664</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\a Website\2\drupal-7.14\modules\system\system.module</em>).</span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"> </span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">Which was trying to say that Fusion base theme doesn't work by itself unless you find some bit of code to hack; you are meant to install a starter theme as default, which quite likely downloaded at the same time.</span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"><i><span style="color: #cc0000;">Are you free?</span></i></span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">Aquia Prosper has not been updated to Drupal 7. An alpha release ceased development in June 2011. For some forgotten reason, this was meant to be the most tweaked free theme for selling things, but now it isn't.</span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"> </span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">http://fusiondrupalthemes.com/theme/<a href="http://fusiondrupalthemes.com/theme/acquia-marina">Acquia-Marina</a> is free.</span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">http://fusiondrupalthemes.com/theme/<a href="http://fusiondrupalthemes.com/theme/acquia-slate">Acquia-Slate</a> is free. </span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">Adaptive Themes have a free base theme on which </span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;">https://drupal.org/project/<a href="https://drupal.org/project/at-commerce">AT-Commerce</a> is free.</span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><span style="color: #444444;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div class="messages error" style="color: #cc0000;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div>
</div>
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-39401399449607465302012-08-06T16:59:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:24:33.267+01:00Shipping modules now exist!<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGaQY7cXXLtUBDLRhraR6FtYmxhRDauV5pI4cU98hr-ySP-cfKKW5I9z7FEnoJF9B1CAW2nTS6RMT-chJbz4FkTH4ErwYUioZvWGEtegFeTZPqoepUPkedSlx5rM989IohYvuCs1fmPH_P/s1600/Royal-Mail-008%5B1%5D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGaQY7cXXLtUBDLRhraR6FtYmxhRDauV5pI4cU98hr-ySP-cfKKW5I9z7FEnoJF9B1CAW2nTS6RMT-chJbz4FkTH4ErwYUioZvWGEtegFeTZPqoepUPkedSlx5rM989IohYvuCs1fmPH_P/s320/Royal-Mail-008%5B1%5D.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
Two years ago I gave-up on Ubercart because I couldn't use the shipping module outside the US.<br />
Things have got better.<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_536945808"><br />
</a> <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/project/uc_global_quote">http://www.ubercart.org/project/uc_global_quote</a> makes it possible to allocate each of the hundred or more countries to a zone, such as the ones your post office uses when charging for parcels. I only discovered this a day or two ago and spent an Olympic weekend allocating every single country I could find on my post office's web site a zone.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/project/rmzone">https://drupal.org/project/rmzone</a> was released yesterday by <a href="https://drupal.org/user/220112">Andrew Foulston</a>. Released for Drupal Commerce, it is not rejected by Ubercart and makes a data selector show-up under a Royal Mail heading (I discover that grey data on the drop-down menus is linked to other data selections, and forget quite how many clicks it took to find this).<br />
<br />
Now, to get the last of my data out of ubercart global quotes I have tried disabling it and now even uninstalling it. And reinstalling it. Computer says no.</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">This blog</a> from</span> <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Vegan shoes boots belts and jackets mainly UK made">Veganline.com that sells veg<span style="font-family: inherit;">an shoes online</span></a> </span></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-68304092918162826182012-04-08T20:01:00.005+01:002018-10-21T10:24:34.741+01:00Drupal Commerce Product Display Module<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="281" mozallowfullscreen="" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/37141239" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="500"></iframe><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_product_display_manager"><u><span style="font-size: x-large;"><b><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Commerce Product Display Manager</span></b></span></u></a><b><span style="background-color: white; color: purple;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><u><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"> </span></u></span></span></span></b><br />
<b><span style="background-color: white; color: purple;"></span></b><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="color: magenta;"><i>Hi, my name is <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=43010597&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=7mWP&locale=en_US&srchid=c4295bce-d8d0-4bf4-b4d5-750b73a6cb60-0&srchindex=1&srchtotal=2&goback=.fps_PBCK_*1_Pedro_Cambra_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link">Pedro Cambra</a> from <a href="http://www.commerceguys.com/">Commerce Guys</a> with another Commerce Module Tuesday, & I am here to talk to you about <a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_product_display_manager"><u>Commerce Product Display Manager</u></a>, or short name <a href="https://drupal.org/project/commerce_product_display_manager"><u>Commerce PDM</u></a>, which is really a great way to simplify the way that you manage product displays & products. </i></blockquote><blockquote class="tr_bq" style="color: magenta;"><i>So you will probably find this module useful if you are managing an online store with Commerce because Commerce has a relationship with products & product displays that is 1:1, so you don't have or have not so many ???tomany ???ations in this scenareo. So if you are using a 1:1 relationship between product displays and products you will probably find this module really really useful. So lets demo[nstrate] it. (So) I have had Commerce Kickstart simple installed, just with the product display manager enabled. And - This module provides two different things.</i></blockquote><br />
<b><span style="background-color: white; color: purple;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><span style="font-size: x-large;">1.Automatically creates a display</span></span></span>.</b><br />
<div style="color: purple;">The first one is that if I add a product in the screen of creating & editing products ...<br />
[<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">admin>commerce>products>add>product</span></b> - screen headed "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Create Product</span></b>" with "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">View Products</span></b>" highlighted]... you will see this widget here on the bottom. [below statuse active/disabled, Change History: widget is headed "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Referenced By</span></b>". It has two links: <b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">New display node | Existing Display Node</span></b>] ... that allows me to create a new display node, or use an existing display node in the same screen that I'm [using for] creating the product.</div><div style="color: purple;"><br />
</div><div style="color: purple;">So let's create a new product. <br />
Give it the SKU 04, [call it] Product 4; that's $40. Suppose - I don't care about the content of the node: I just want a node to display this: I could select any Poduct Display content type [that] I have [from the "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">type</span></b>" dropdown menu]. So.</div><div style="color: purple;"><br />
</div><div style="color: purple;">Just adding the detail: it will create - it has just create a new node, for referencing this product. So I just need to save the product. So I have the Product 4 [on the list]. And if I go to <span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Content</span> [from the top menu in admin] I have Product 4 displayed. It has the title and the product reference field filled-in. So if you have many fields you would probably need to edit this afterwards. </div><div style="color: purple;"><br />
</div><div style="color: purple;">Also notice that this is "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">published</span></b>" and not "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">published and promoted</span></b>" so if you have Commerce Kickstart, as I do, you will need to go to "<b style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><span style="color: black;">Content</span></b>" to find this new node. </div><div style="color: purple;"><br />
</div><div style="color: purple;">[from "<b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">View Products</span></b>" on the second line of menu options in admin]</div><span style="color: purple;">So you can also edit your products - say that is Product 4 - I will need, or I want a new node, so I can charge for the product. You can probably see the <b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">node ID</span></b> but you can search for the details [that] you can reference, here. And delete, with a fancy javascript interface so, that's great. </span><br />
<br />
<div style="color: #38761d;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>2a.Store> Products> Display Manager tab</b></span></span> ..</div><div style="color: #38761d;">So the second thing, once you have installed this Display Manager Module, is this stuff here in the product list. So if you go to <span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Store>Products</span> you'll see your product list and here, in the top, your Display Manager tab. </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">And in this Display Manager, you will see a drag-and-drop interface. So you can change your products on display, and assign products, just with drag-and-drop. (And) You can delete both the Products, and the Product displays, add new products, etcetera. So it is a great add-on if you have a need to manage the Products this way, with a drag-and-drop and a javascript interface. </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">(So) when you save something, it is in a batch process and it is a really cool feature.</div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;"><b>2b Using a rule instead of a module</b></span></span></div><div style="color: #38761d;">(So) if you don't want to install this module, because you don't want this interface exposed or whatever, there is an issue in the Drupal Commerce queue, which is called "<span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Rules to mirror product displays when products created/updated/deleted</span>". It is self-explanatory. And here you will find a bunch of rules. Probably you will be looking here at the bottom. And I have just proposed one here. So when a Product is created, a display is created with the same information as the product. </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">(So) you go back - sorry: - If you go back to your interface, and you access the Rules interface which is in </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Configuration></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Rules</span>, you can import one [rule]. So I just paste this code here, and import. (And) you will find your rule which is defined <span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Create Event Display<span style="color: #38761d;"><span style="font-family: Times,"Times New Roman",serif;"> at the bottom here</span></span></span></span>. (So) What is does is that after saving a new Commerce Product, it creates a new Entity. Let's see the details: it's a Node of the type Product Display, with the same title as the Product which we have just been creating, and with the same author. (And also) It relates the product to the product display with this ? add-an-item-to-a-<b style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">list </b></div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">With some filters here </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">the Commerce Display is filled with the Commerce Product. So - erm - you do not need to know a lot about Rules: just understand how the flow goes.</div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">So this thing will do that. If I add a new product, which is SKY -05 (keeping in order) </div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
</div><div style="color: #38761d;">product 5</div><div style="color: #38761d;">[something about price]</div><div style="color: #38761d;">I'm not adding a new reference or whatsoever. I save the product: product saved. And if I go to content, I have the Product 5 - ? - product 5 with the SKU related. So you will find in this - in this, er, issue : a bunch or fuyles will probably help you in this task. ? Also for date and delete.</div><div style="color: #38761d;"><br />
And, also, if you want an interface with the product and the product display on the same page, and you are a little savvy at coding, you could take a look at this excellent post by Amitai on how to use the module Subform to use the interface of Product Display and the Product in the same screen <span style="color: black; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">http://www.gizra.com/content/commerce-product-subform </span></div><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="color: magenta;">(So) I hope you enjoyed this Commerce Modules Tuesday with a little few extras on the end, and see you in the next one!</span></blockquote><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq"><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></blockquote></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-43334120129785894612012-04-01T17:43:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:24:36.146+01:00Ubercart 3 for Drupal 7 has instructions (except for shipping modules outside the USA)<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
If you search amazon you will find an ebook about setting up Ubercart 3 on Drupal 7. I'm backdating this post so it looks up to date.<br />
<br />
I bought a copy and worked-through the .pdf highlighting the end of each instruction I had completed. It gets a bit tricky when the text talks about sales, because it starts by giving instructions for downloads, then by giving instructions for physical goods and skating-over the problem of 100 countries in 4 zones with say 3-20 price bands that you want to set for each. I can't review the last bit as I haven't read it yet, but progress now seems possible.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="Bouncing Boots made in the UK, vegan leather-look jackets and belts made in London">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-48770973219228056852012-03-16T18:54:00.005+00:002018-10-21T10:24:37.626+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
I now have two boots products on my front page, with variations. It's the typing of products with commas between them in a little box somewhere that does the trick. In the course of uploading these products in 12 sizes I seem to have uploaded twelve identical pictures too.<br />
<br />
Meanwhile I want to do funky 360 degree spins. How to get there?<br />
<br />
Step one: search hard disk and email archive for previus attempts. Find <a href="http://www.magictoolbox.com/magic360/modules/cscart/">http://www.magictoolbox.com/magic360/modules/cscart/</a> on the web and an email refernce to me buying their magiczoom thing 4 years ago. It doesn't do image spins but anything that's better than two mis-shapen photos of shoes would be a start. Do I have a username or whatever it takes? I've installed the zip module from the web and nothing happens. Maybe I need to find out more.<br />
<br />
Step two: search for free alternatives and find Professer Cloud, who's work is Drupalised on <a href="https://drupal.org/project/cloud_zoom">https://drupal.org/project/cloud_zoom</a> by Nicholas Thompson. There is some complication about adding lines of code because of a fear of MIT licences. This is frustrating because I am poking in hope of success rather than understanding what I do, and any complication makes success very unlikely.<br />
<br />
On the subject of frustration, I saw that Professer Cloud's work is used on a number of sites and happened to pick one with a very good video educational video for Boyz: Click somewhere away from work and non-boyz who might be unsympathetic<br />
<a href="http://content.bitsontherun.com/previews/qYkYwiCW-t7UzaS4G">http://content.bitsontherun.com/previews/qYkYwiCW-t7UzaS4G</a><br />
PS If I have got another boy into trouble for posting this link, may I say in his defence that this is mainly a blog about highly productive software which with time and effort can sometimes be self-taught and developed to do more than Word, like run the Whitehouse web site or whatever. So this isn't a rude site your colleague / spouse / pupil was watching, honest. These things are serious to us boyz and deserve a link, that's all.<br />
<br />
<HR ALIGN="LEFT"><br />
1.4.12<br />
The various servers I've been testing Drupal on tend to run out of space and memory, so subtleties are abandoned until I learn how to work Drupal on my own hard disk, develop, and then upload. The first part is explained by Tom Geller on a post below called "getting started". I managed last night, but this morning can't see how to retrace steps and get the site on the screen<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-71826326056306548142012-02-29T19:23:00.004+00:002018-10-21T10:24:40.596+01:00http://drupalzombie.com<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><a href="http://drupalzombie.com/">Drupalzombie.com</a> seems to know about how to put Drupal 7 files in the right place. If not I will delete this post or cover it in zombie slime.</div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-50252369887512387042012-02-24T11:18:00.001+00:002018-10-19T13:38:07.657+01:00Today I learned something new: Drupal on shared hosting OK<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Thanks whoever commented on the post below:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Overlay</li>
<li>Dashboard</li>
<li>Context Links (this required by Commerce I think but I can skip the other two)</li>
</ul>
save a lot of memory if disabled.<br />
<br />
Thanks whoever posted on <a href="https://drupal.org.uk/node/322">https://drupal.org.uk/node/322</a><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Several shared hosts do survive the memory demands of Drupal</li>
<li>There's one in <a href="http://www.hotdrupal.com/">North Carolina that specialises in Drupal</a> and one in Purley. The thread attracts some people who want support email or phone support and some who have someone else to pay the bill, so it's hard to compare recommendations.</li>
<li>Meanwhile <a href="http://heliohost.org/">Heliohost.org</a> enable one free account per user if it's active. The server is a testbed rather than a hotbed, with maximim add-ons and minimal constraints but <a href="http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/?remoteAddress=starfox.about.com.msnbc.org.edu.taft.whitehouse.gov.melon.heliohost.org">205 other users</a> - few of them active - which <a href="http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/visual-tracert/">this tool shows</a> on a machine in Sacremento, California, routed via Frankfurt to me here in London. </li>
</ul>
Thanks to two pieces I've skim-read a bit at the start and still learned from. <br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>I discovered caching for Drupal.<br />"Shared server - no Varnish, no Memcache or APC" on a "<a href="http://drupaldownunder.org/session/drupal-commerce-group-buy-case-study-disaster">case study disaster</a>" told at Drupaldownunder was the clue. Now I know how a database driven site can be made to work as well as a plain html site: <a href="http://dev.nodeone.se/sv/node/1155">you add a cache</a> so that it becomes almost an html site. I have managed to install Memcache; Varnish might not be ready for novices yet and one called "Boost" requries a snippet of .php added to the settings file. Does this need the opening and closing tags? Best avoided for novices just for a while. Evan as I type this I discover "content delivery networks" from skim-reading parts of the same lecture timetable. If I type "<a href="http://pinkeyegraphics.co.uk/blog/index.php/2011/10/04/using-coralcdn-to-accommodate-peak-deman">.nyud.net</a>" after the domain part of the host for these apes, they load quicker!<a href="http://www.theepochtimes.com.nyud.net/n2/images/stories/large/2010/09/09/bonobo-72408173.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img align="RIGHT" border="0" src="http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2010/09/09/bonobo-72408173.jpg" height="238" width="320" /></a></li>
<li>I discovered that Drupal doesn't let you delete the settings.php file from a previous installation unless you use an FTP program to do it. <a href="http://twigstechtips.blogspot.com/2009/02/cant-edit-or-delete-drupal-settingsphp.html">Discovered from a blog in Australia</a> - just a glance at the first couple of paragraphs confirmed the problem and its solution.</li>
<li><a href="https://drupal.org/node/326504">https://drupal.org/node/326504</a> about scalability looks relevant</li>
</ul>
So. Lots of little things come right in the world sometimes and I will not try to get a job as a bonobo <strike>monkey</strike> ape in a zoo.<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<i>This blog is by a <a href="http://veganline.com/">veggie shoe shop called Veganline.com that sells vegan shoes boots & belts</a></i></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-1314260359411580142012-02-21T10:03:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:24:42.014+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div style="color: red;"><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">Drupal 7 doesn't work on cheap hosting. (This is a secret designed to annoy people when they discover).</span></b></div><br />
This is the conclusion I have reached after loads of developer videos failed to tell me: they use dedicated servers or their own hard discs.<br />
<br />
The problem seems to be memory limits which have risen by mistake for no particular reason. Just as a Ryan Schama talks about "project creep" in his lecture, Drupal 7 has a <i>Server Memory Creep</i> towards needing an expensive host which nobody advertised or planned: it just happened and caught a lot of people out.<br />
<br />
For those on the borderline there are three cacheing products <br />
<br />
I find this frustrating because I did a bit of research over a year ago, trying to find out how to make a low-magin, loss making business sell more and at the time Drupal 6 / Ubercart was the fastest-loading software and I searched for days to find the fastest cheapest host. Now the calculation is a different one which rules out this host and this whole school of software together, and probably Drupal software altogether. I have spent over a year trying to learn the XYZ thing while shopping carts have forked and re-built themselves. Now I discover that I should have gone with Virtuemart in the first place. Such is life. If you read about an american going crazy and shooting people in a shopping mall, maybe they had just tried to install Drupal. Or maybe it was looking at the awful overpriced stock in TKMAX that did it. One of the two.<br />
<br />
What other annoying things are there in life? Youth is wasted on the young? Trades unions let you down when you get an unfair dismissal? Radio station editors don't like news or music? Maybe I should petend to be a Bonobo Monkey and live in a park where zoo keepers will feed me.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-2624166813295054932012-02-06T12:40:00.001+00:002018-10-21T10:24:43.454+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><span style="font-size: large;"><b>Ubercart 3 is go</b></span><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Ubercart 3 more-or-less mostly installs from my one-click Drupal installer and then trying to download one module at a time. Now the essential modules are installed I'm beginning to get fatal memory errors dispute a php.ini file saying that memory ought to be 128MB; I should work down the list of hacks in case something else works.</li>
<li>Ubercart 3 still expects complex shipping to be done with a module from the shipping company, which Royal Mail does not supply. I read that you can contribute a country, or maybe edit an existing one, to turn it into Europe or Worldwide which are the two overseas Royal Mail zones. From there it should be possible to write a shipping quote by weight.</li>
<li>Ubercart 3 doesn't have any books published about it on Amazon, but it seems pretty similar to Ubercart 2 except that it uses Drupal's standard Rules, apparently, and there is a knobbly bit on the side of a block that is something to do with editing. Probably lots of other things.</li>
<li>Someone has written about the two programs in a piece that I haven't read or made sense of -<br />
<a href="http://www.markroyko.com/blog/2011/12/14/ubercart-3-vs-drupal-commerc">http://www.markroyko.com/blog/2011/12/14/ubercart-3-vs-drupal-commerc</a>e?utm_source=The+Weekly+Drop&utm_campaign=f26f5aec6a-The_Weekly_Drop_Issue_14_12_22_2011&utm_medium=email</li>
</ul><b>Update 11.2013: Ubercart guides</b><br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><h3 class="newaps" style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span class="lrg bold">Drupal 7 Ubercart 3 Ecommerce Manual</span> <span class="med reg">by David Ipswich is a quick guide</span></span></h3></li>
<li><h3 class="newaps" style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span class="med reg"><a href="http://www.ubercart.org/docs/user/30436/ubercart_3x">Ubercart.org list videos by Peter Yarowski</a> some of which are transcribed on this blog</span></span></h3></li>
<li><h3 class="newaps" style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span class="med reg">Drupal 7 for Dummies (second edition) has an Ubercart 3 chapter which I have not read </span></span></h3></li>
</ul><h3 class="newaps"><span style="font-size: small;"><span class="med reg">For Drupal Commerce</span></span></h3><h3 class="newaps"></h3><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><h1 class="parseasinTitle"><span style="font-size: small;"><span id="btAsinTitle"><span style="padding-left: 0px;">Building E-Commerce Sites with Drupal Commerce Cookbook <span style="text-transform: capitalize;">[Paperback]</span></span></span></span></h1></li>
</ul><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-34488347096657953262012-01-31T12:01:00.001+00:002018-10-21T10:24:44.846+01:00Installation: possible?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<b>Fatal error</b>: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 85 bytes) in <b>/home/veganlin/public_html/X/includes/menu.inc</b> on line <b>3669</b><br />
<b> </b><br />
This is what happens if I install Drupal 7 from my web host's installation aid, something like Fantastico or Scriptulicious, and then install each of the modules required for Drupal Commerce. I pick one that has little else depending on it - I think it was <i>advanced help</i> - and I get a Fatal error. From experience, I think it's possible to use control+backarrow and have another go. Sometimes the thing installs second or third time. But this is not going to be a reliable site.<br />
<br />
The other way of installing Commerce is what the <i>25 minutes</i> lecture below suggests. I tried importing the database this morning and got an error message, which is odd because I think it has worked before:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/12/uploaded-database-i-used-import-from.html%20">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/12/uploaded-database-i-used-import-from.html </a><br />
<br />
It looks as though the hardest problem with Drupal 7 is going to be squeezing it onto cheap server space and finding ways to install without overloading the memory. There is some other system I've read about but know nothing about - I don't quite remember even what it's called - is it Drush and is that the answer?</div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-70489917588126629492012-01-22T18:51:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:24:46.813+01:00Building an awesome e-commerce site in 25 minutes (without losing your soul)<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViS2xFvnZwc&feature=BFa&list=PLCDB80A0209EC71E1&lf=plpp_video">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViS2xFvnZwc&feature=BFa&list=PLCDB80A0209EC71E1&lf=plpp_video</a> <iframe allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" frameborder="0" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ViS2xFvnZwc" width="420"></iframe><br />
<br />
<br />
Hullo. My name is Andrew. I work for a company called <i><a href="http://www.rwts.com.au/">Real World Technology</a></i>. We do a range of different things, but I am here to talk about a wonderful thing in the Drupal ecosystem in my opinion, and that's called <i>Drupal Commerce</i>. So you're probably, or you might have heard other people speaking about it a little bit <a href="http://www.andrewyager.com/blog/2011-01-27/drupal-downunder-2011">this weekend</a>. It's come-up. It's been cursed in some talks; it's been praised in some talks. I think it's one of the best things that's come to the e-commerce community as part of Drupal.<br />
<br />
We're going to have a chat a little bit about that, and we're going to have a go at making a working, ready, production, e-commerce website, in - pretty much on 25 minutes. So all being well; no computer and technical glitches, that should be all good.<br />
<br />
<b>What is <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Drupal Commerce</span>? [screen]</b><br />
<ul>
<li><b>A modular eCommerce framework</b></li>
<li><b>Designed to let you "build" new stuff</b></li>
<li><b>It's really cool</b></li>
</ul>
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So </span>before we actually get-in-to Drupal Commerce, I just want to do a quick show of hands:<br />
how many of you have built an ecommerce site before? OK.<br />
How many of you have enjoyed the experience? I've got two hands! And a half!<br />
Who has used Drupal Commerce before now? OK: we've got a few people around. <br />
<div>
How many people have used Ubercart? OK: a few more of you.</div>
Magento? Yes. <br />
<div>
OSCommerce? [two or three]</div>
Who has written their own [holds-up his own hand]<br />
Things not written in Drupal that do e-commerce?<br />
Anyone used Shopify or any of those sorts of things? No: OK. One. That's good. OK.<br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
Well,</div>
Drupal Commerce is a little bit different to most other ecommerce distributions that are available on the market. Drupal Commerce is really a framework to allow you to build ecommerce stores and ecommerce platforms. Drupal Commerce in and of itself is a bunch of really really small modules that do a set of small, defined, contained things. And, out of the box if you just go to Drupal.org and grab the Commerce project and install it on your site, you're probably going to be finding that <u>what you've got</u> is something that<br />
<ul>
<li><b>doesn't do a lot, is</b></li>
<li><b>pretty confusing, and a</b></li>
<li><b>little bit hard to get started with.</b></li>
</ul>
<div style="color: #073763;">
So,</div>
We're going to talk a little bit about that today, but the thing about Drupal Commerce, that sets it apart from everything else, is that it is a set of components that allows you to build something big. And build something better. My background: I build e-commerce sites. I've been building them since I was about 15. The first e-commerce site I built was a custom-built site. It lived in asp.net. Or I should say "asp": this was before .net even existed. It sold products for a store. I can't even remember what it did. It had a <i>Microsoft Access</i> database back-end because - you know - when you're 15, <i>Access</i> is cool. Then you grow-up and realise that it really wasn't, but that's OK! That was the first site that I built. Since then I've built sites on <i>Magento</i>; things built on <i>Zend framework</i>, some stuff built on <i>Syphony</i>, ran a very large website built in <i>OSCommerce</i> for around five years. So I've had a bit of an exposure to what's available in ecommerce platforms, and building different things. And together with my company we've built web sites for some very very small people, through to some very very large NGOs and other organisations that wanted to extend their business onto the internet.<br />
<br />
The thing that I found, time and time again, is that when I go and I download something like <i>Magento</i>, or I go and I download something like <i>Ubercart,</i> I discover that, provided that what I want to do works straight out of the box, the solution is absolutely perfect. But the moment that my customer comes to me and says "<i>what I want is X and Y and Z</i>", and I can't quite do it; the modules don't quite get there or I can't change what I want easily.... I end-up hacking something together and making changes and doing things that break my upgrade path. That in the end means that the customer gets a solution that they're not really happy with. It just becomes a bit of a mess. <br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
Now,</div>
I see that Drupal Commerce addresses a number of these issues, by - instead of trying to be something that is all things to all people out of the box - it tries to be building-blocks that give you pieces of the bigger puzzle. So: it's really cool like that. <br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So,</div>
What does Drupal do? It does most of the things that you'd expect an ecommerce platform to do.<br />
<br />
<b>What can it do?</b><br />
<ul>
<li><b>Manage products and display them</b></li>
<li><b>Manage orders</b></li>
<li><b>Take payments</b></li>
<li><b>Calculate tax</b></li>
<li><b>Give discounts</b></li>
</ul>
That's what it will do <i>pretty much</i> out of the box. We can also handle <b>shipping</b>; we can do <b>stock</b>, we can do <b>coupons and vouchers</b>. Some of those things might not sound like very big business goals. But I started using <i>Magento</i> when it was a 0.9 release. It was the coolest php-based shopping cart system available on the market and probably one of the best that was available at the time. It had a nice <i>UI</i> (user interface); a nice customer experience that was only rivalled by some of the really really big ecommerce stores. But then we wanted to give coupons to our customers to allow them to buy on it. They only realeased that module into the community about 12 months ago. That's like three years after the product was there. But Drupal Commerce has it today there right now. So they are really quite good.<br />
<br />
<b>What are people using Drupal Commerce for?</b><br />
<ul>
<li><b>Everyday online stores (eg ozonekites.com.eu)</b>Today if you are online you can go and jump on there now. It's an Australian-based store. They sell kites. It's pretty cool. </li>
<li><b>Membership websites (eg subhub.com)</b>Dries mentioned in his keyonote [speech] this morning Subhub.com. Subhub is an example which I've come accross which is really unique. They have a Drupal-based-web-site that sells Drupal-based-web-sites to sell stuff! Which is, kind of, a bit of inception, but it's pretty good! So you can go and you can buy a website from Subhub to sell subscriptions to your magazine. Or to allow you to download music from your music-band-thing that you play in or record for or something like that. It's pretty cool.</li>
<li><b>Discount style websites</b>... is another unique thing. Someone has gone and built an entire clone of the Groupon website, in Drupal Commerce, packaged it up as a Drupal Distribution, and you can go, download that, install that on your web server, add a bit of theming and bits and pieces: and you've got your own Groupon site. And you can give your friends and family discounts to - I don't know: whatever it you want to give them discounts to. Or however that wants to work. But it's there. It works today right out of the box.</li>
<li><b>Donations (eg ioby.org)</b>... and there's</li>
<li><b>Many more (see drupalcommerce.org/showcase) </b>There's a long list there. That's only half of what Drupal Commerce is doing out-there in the wild today.</li>
</ul>
One of the things that I promised was that we were going to build and awesome Drupal Commerce website from scratch in only 25 minutes. So let's get-in and do that. We've only got 13 or 14 minutes left in this session! <br />
<br />
<b>Installing Commerce</b><br />
<ul>
<li>So, we're going to <b>Start with </b>something called the <b>Commerce_Kickstart install profile</b><br />Commerce Kickstart is basically a full Drupal 7.10 (at the moment) distribution, with all of the Commerce bits and pieces ready to go, which you can download. Install on your web server [if it has the capacity which cheap ones don't: you have to install from a database]. Follow the install script. And have a functional working Drupal Commerce website.</li>
<li>But it's really designed for being used in the US. So what we're going to do, then, is: we're going to grab the <b>Commerce_Australia module for some country specific configuration - </b>which has some configuration for currency display and GST Time, and it just makes it easy to get them up and running, and install that, and taht's what we're going to do to start with.</li>
<li><b>Let the fun begin</b></li>
</ul>
[...] [8' 20 seconds]<br />
I've pre - downloaded an installer module onto my machine, set-up a web host: all of those sort sof things<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">OK</span>, it's going to run away and it's going to install all the modules. It's going to configure everything as a kind of a base starting point and get us ready to go, and when this is finished in just a few seconds we'll get to the <i>configure site</i> . I'll set some settings like you would if you were normally installing Drupal. And then we install some example stuff. And we wait. This is probably the most boring bit. If anyone feels like donating me a faster macbook pro I'll gladly accept. <br />
<br />
The advantage that the Commerce Kickstart module has over downloading Drupal and adding the Commerce module is that there is a bunch of things that you need to get Commerce working. We'll talk a little bit more about some of those things in a minute but there's a lot of <i>dependencies</i>, which are normal things that you'd probably run on your Drupal website, but the Commerce Kickstart distribution has those things in it from day onee. So you don't need to worry about those sorts of things. You can install it in a Drupal site if you've got it up and running and add bits and pieces. We're just doing it this way because we have limited time, because I set a rediculous time limit! <br />
<br />
We're going to call the site... I think we're going to sell some Ferraris. [see screen] Save and continue.<br />
We're going to put some example content in because it makes our life easier. In case you were wondering, we have now been running for three minutes out of our 25 minutes, and we now have installed Drupal Commerce, and we have a working functioning ecommerce store.<br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>I can <u>add products</u> to my cart</li>
<li>I can <u>view my cart</u></li>
<li>I can <u>make the quantity five</u></li>
<li>I can <u>update my cart</u></li>
<li>I can <u>checkout</u></li>
<li>I can <u>fill-in some details</u> and go right through and it will work. <span style="color: #073763;">We'll look at that a little bit more later.</span></li>
</ul>
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
But</div>
What we're going to do is we're going to do a little bit more than that; there is a little bit more to be done.<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
This is what we're actually going to build. We are going to build the Drupal Downunder 2012 Farrari Store. We are going to sell Micky Mouse cars; we are going to sell Honda Civics and Farraris - maybe. We'll definately sell Farraris: I'm not so sure about the rest of them.<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
A couple of things that Commerce can do. One of the nice things is that it groups products together like this [attributes] so that we can have a yellow Farrari featuring red starbursts; we can have a lime green Farrari. You'll notice that as I do this it updates the displays and it changes the price and the text and you'll see that there's some features on some of these cars: I think the yellow car features starburst paint. They're all updating nicely in the background. As a website developer, and a themer (and bits and pieces) I've done nothing to get that working out of the box. It's just there. It just happens. It just works. No effort involved. Straight working, day one. [so why can't I do it?: because there are no instructions. Will the nice man explain?]<br />
<br />
The other thing that we are going to do, if I actually add this car to my cart - we'll just jump across to the checkout. We've got our starburst Farrari here at $59.95 . We've got some shipping in here. There's no [?] doubledation on this. Whatever. We're not going to talk about that today but it can be done. We've got some shipping and we've got two different shipping rules. If you've got a product that you want to sell for less than $100 - or less than $50 in this particualr store - you'll get $15 shipping charged. And when your cart value is over $50 you get free shipping. So the idea is that you might want to give some particular shipping to some people, or if they are some kind of VIP customer or things like that: all sorts of things that we can do. We can go right through [as a customer], confirm, put in some payment details, and then magically checkout is complete. I can view my order, and see what I have bought. I can go into my account and see what I have bought before. I've got a few orders in there including one that's been deleted and one order that's been completed. I can come in here as an <i>admin</i>; view some orders. See what's been - ordered. I can delete an order. I can modify the payment details. These are some of the things that you can do with Drupal Commerce straight out of the box, mostly, without too much work.<br />
<br />
<b>Understanding the <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Workflow</span></b><br />
<div style="color: purple;">
<b>Install Commerce>></b><b>Confirgure Currency>>Configure Tax Rates>>Build Product Types>>Add Sample Product(s)>>Build Product Display>>Configure Shipping / Payment methods>> Add more products and displays>> Test and Launch?</b></div>
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So</span><span style="color: #073763;"> </span><br />
how to we go about actually getting from a base install to something that is relatively functional; which we can use to delivery an e-commerce product to our customers? <br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So </span><span style="color: #073763;">the first thing that we do is that we </span><br />
<u>install Commerce</u>. Relatively straightforward.<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">Then we </span><br />
<u>configure the currency settings</u>. By default Commerce installs, running in $US. Not that that's really a problem, but you probably want your store, if you're in Australia, to be running in Australian dollars.<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>We set-up some tax rules and tax rates.</li>
<li>We build our product types - and I will explain a little bit more about what that is in a moment.</li>
<li>We add some sample products.</li>
<li>We build product displays.</li>
<li>We configure shipping and payment methods.</li>
<li>We finish populating our store.</li>
<li>We test it to make sure it's working right</li>
<li>Then we go live and we make lots of money because everyone makes lots of money when they launch an online store. [laughs]</li>
</ul>
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Rules</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>Rules govern the operation of each element of the store - including calculating prices, discounts, checkout steps, add-to-cart rules, confirmation emails, user registration.</b></div>
The first thing about Drupal Commerce is that it makes use of standard Drupal ways of doing things. So there are some key components of Commerce which live in the background and aren't immediately obvious. They make Commerce work and really really sing when it comes to Commerce being a good ecommerce tool. The first thing is <i>Rules</i>. <i>Rules</i> drive Drupal Commerce. <i>Rules</i> are your business logic that detirmines how your ecommerce store works. So you have <i>Rules</i> to calculate tax. You have rules to detirmine whether you can add a product to your cart. You have <i>Rules </i>that set what shipping method you can choose. You have <i>Rules</i> that detirmine whether or not the user is allowed to check-out. You have a <i>Rule,</i> and there's actually a screen-shot of one here, that detirmines what emails get sent to the customer when they purchase the item, and whether or not you as a store admin get the email. You have <i>Rules</i> which integrate Drupal Commerce with your back-end ERP system. So if you have something like AdEmpire [?] or you're making use of a financial package like, say, Zero or Sassuu or something like that, someone can write modules that interact with those<i> Rules</i>, so that, say, when you place an order it triggers the invoice to be created in Zero, the payment to be recorded, and all of those thing fit together very very nicely. Now: no-one has done that yet, but it is entirely possible within the way that Drupal Commerce works.<br />
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Views</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>Views display (almost) every part of the store - including order lists, the checkout, shopping cart and product listings.</b></div>
The next thing to say about Drupal Commerce is that it relies heavily on <i>Views</i>. So <i>Views</i> is a way of representing data within your website. You can have <i>Views</i> that display <i>nodes</i>; you can have <i>Views</i> that display all kinds of different things. One of the neat things about Drupal Commerce is that pretty much whenever it displays a list of stuff, it is using <i>Views</i>. So if you want to change the columns that you see... One of the common things that customers say to me is that "We've got our web site, we've got our admin section; we've got our product listing, and we want to change the order of things". So: take something like <i>Magento</i>. You can print a picking-list out of <i>Magento</i>, which my default shows the product code, product name, price, and that's about all. And if you want to change that, you've got a change a bunch of stuff:<br />
- you've got to change a bunch of XML files<br />
- you've got to change a bunch of PHP files<br />
- change the way that that all comes together. It's a little bit messy and a little bit nasty.<br />
With Drupal Commerce you jump-in, you edit the <i>View</i>; you edit the column, and you're done! It's really nice. Really really easy. You want to display the SKU, so the part code appears in the shopping cart: you just go-ahead and you add the column. That's the way that it works. It's really really nice because it makes use of standard Drupal features, that people who are used to building and assembling Drupal websites use every day and night.<br />
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Products</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>A product is an item you want to sell, and is an "entitity". A product contains all the important details about an item, and there is generally one for each part code in the catalogue.</b></div>
The next thing to say is that <i>Products</i> are not <i>Nodes</i>. If you are coming from a Drupal 6 mind-set, where everything is a <i>node</i>, it's really important to understand that <u><i>products</i> are not <i>nodes</i></u>. <i>Products</i> are <i>products</i>, and they are displayed using <i>nodes. </i>We'll talk about product displays in a minute. A <i>Product</i> is essentially a group of fields, which is a group of information about a product. So a <i>Product</i> must contain an <i>SKU</i> - which is a part code; a <i>product </i>must contain a <i>name</i>, and a <i>product</i> can (but doesn't have to) contain a <i>price. </i>Most products will contain a price. Although some people want stores where they don't actually want to sell anything - they just want to put products online. So those kinds of things are there. But say you wanted to record the colour of an item. You can add a <i>field</i> to your <i>product type</i> that has a colour in it, much in the way that you can add a field to your <i>content type</i> to record the information. But they're distinct from <i>product types.</i><br />
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Product Displays</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>A product display groups one or more products together for display, and is a "node". Product displays usually contain descriptions and formatting rules.</b></div>
<i>Prouduct Displays</i> groups products together into logical groups. So an example which I have been (kind of) thinking-through is... Say I was an Apple reseller, and I wanted to sell Iphones. There's currently eight or nine different models of Iphones you can get. But want I want to do is have someone come to my online store, and be able to pick-up, or go to the Iphone page and have all of the different options listed there together, so there is one page for them to go and see. I don't really want them to go to a page that has the 34gig Iphone, the 64gig Iphone, and black and white - and there's way more than six models I've just realised - I want them all grouped together in a single <i>node. </i>So that's what a <i>Product Display</i> is: it groups products together in a form for display. And you can add extra information there. You can add descriptions - in fact, any <i>field</i> you want to add to a <i>product display</i>, you can.<br />
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Currency</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>Multi-currency aware. Products can be priced in more than one currency. Currencies can be selected based on rules</b>.</div>
<i>Currency</i> is the next thing we are going to talk about. Drupal Commerce is actually is multi-currency aware. So if you wanted to sell products in Australian dollars and US dollars and New Zealand dollars and British Pounds, and Yen, or whatever it is you want to do, Drupal Commerce on day-one out-of-the-box supports multiple currencies. By default it has not way of converting between currencies, so if you put prices in in Australian dollars, it won't go and work out what the price is in US dollars or something like that. But there's no reason why you could not do that, if you wanted to. Most people probably wouldn't want to do that because they want to sell in nice numbers, so they want to sell at $49.95 in Australian dollars and $199.99 dollars in the US or however that works. <br />
<br />
Which currency people see can be selected using <i>Rules</i>. There are modules which will tell <i>Rules</i> what country someone is in. <i>Rules</i> will detirmine on the basis of that what currency someone should see when they look at your store. <br />
<br />
<b>Understanding <span style="font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;">Taxes</span></b><br />
<div style="color: red;">
<b>Taxes are very flexible. Consist of Tax Types and Tax Rates. Fully managable by Rules.</b></div>
The other thing that we'll quickly touch on is <i>taxes</i>. In Australia taxes are relatively boring. There's just one single tax for everything and that's called GST (Goods and Services Tax). It's about 10% of the product price. Most of you probably deal with that when you deal with everything you buy. In other countries there are other tax rules. But say you wanted to sell houses using Drupal Commerce. In New South Wales where I am from, we have this thing called Stamp Duty. Stamp Duty is 1½% of the sale price. So you could have a tax rate for Stamp Duty within Drupal Commerce, know when to calculate that Stamp Duty using Rules, and correctly apply it to the products, using <i> Rules,</i> all automatically, without having to do anything. So you can have mulitple tax rates, multiple tax types; you can display prices including, excluding: all those types of things. You can have taxes not on. In fact - a kind of self plug here - the <i>Commerce Australia</i> module which you can download from Drupal.org, it has a rule in there which says "If you are in Australia, charge GST, and if you're not in Australia, don't charge GST", because if you ship the product outside of Australia then you don't charge GST on it. When I used to run a website in OSCommerce, that was a big pain whenever someone placed an order from New Zealand, because we had to take the GST off and modify it and a bunch of things like that, and it didn't do it well, and then we tried it in Ubercart and it was even worse. So it just works out of the box, day one. Great. <br />
22 <br />
So lets actually get-in and do this. We've got 25 minutes from now. Maybe some time for questions. By the way, feel free to stop me at any time and ask questions on what we're doing.<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
This is the website we've just installed.<br />
<br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
The first thing we're going to do is actually not jump into <i>configuration</i> but jump into <i>modules</i> and the first thing I'm going to actually do is I'm going to install the <i>module filter</i> module, simply because it makes my life a lot easier. If you've worked with a site that has lots of modules and you've never found the <i>module filter module</i> : what it does is it changes the display of this page and puts all the modules down on the left hand side, which is really handy. It's kind of quick.<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
The first thing that we're going to do is we're going to install the GST (Goods and Services Tax) module, and while we're at it we'll probably also install the <i>currency display</i> . They're part of the <i>Commerce Australia</i> module. What they do is the GST module sets-up the GST <i>rules</i> , and <i>Currency Display</i> makes it display Australian Dollars with a $ sign. That's pretty much all that they do. Basic but important.<br />
<br />
Now we are going to<br />
<span style="color: purple; font-size: large;"><b><i>>>Configure</i> our <i>Store</i></b></span> [from the admin menus].<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So</span><br />
The first thing that we're going to do is: we're going to set the <b>currency</b>. We're going to jump-in here. We're going to change that to Australian dollars. You'll see the default is US dollars. Because we're in Australia. What that's done is that it has enabled the Australian currency in here. But we no longer want to have US dollars available for our store so we will just turn that off. <br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
OK:</div>
<div style="color: #073763;">
First step done.</div>
<br />
The next thing that we'll do is we'll just have a look at the <b>taxes</b>. We don't need to do it because the <i>Tax Rates</i> have already set it up for us. We have a <i>Tax type</i> here: it is called "GST". We have a look at it. It displays taxes of this type already included in the price, it has got some rounding rules, it is called "Goods and Services Tax". And we've got a <i>Tax Rate</i> which is 10%, which is actually the GST because that's what GST is. We can make it 20%, 50%, 150%, -0.1%: all sorts of things. I don't know why you would ever want to do that but you can! I am sure there are countries in the world where that's an important option to be able to have. <br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
OK: so</div>
<div style="color: #073763;">
That's our basic <i>Configuration</i>.</div>
<br />
The next thing that we're going to do is: we are going to<br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="color: purple;">>>build our </span><i><span style="color: purple;">Products.</span> [product types]</i></b></span><br />
<br />
We click on <i>View Products</i> and there's three default <i>products</i> in, because we clicked on Commerce Kickstart install and told it to intstall demonstration products.<br />
<br />
Our Farrari store is going to sell cars, so we want to go and configure it to sell cars. So the first thing we are going to do is: we are going to add a <b><i>product type</i></b>. We're going to call [in the NAME box] it a car. We are going to make it [typing in the DESCTRIPTION box] "a really good car that we can sell". And we are going to save and add some fields [on the MANAGE FIELDS tab]. So you can see: by default we've got the <i>SKU</i> - that's the part code. We've got the <i>title</i>. We've got the <i>price</i> which we could delete if we wanted to. We've got a <i>status</i> which is whether or not a product is disabled, or something like that, so you can just disable the product. And what we are going to do now is that we are going to add [ADD NEW FIELD] a <i>field</i> for <i>colour</i>. It's going to be a list of text type: a select list. We'll save that. This is relatively manual, but we are doing it for real so we will go-through [with it]. An <i>allowed value list</i>. Here is one I prepared earlier (you've got to take some shortcuts!). Now we'll save that . And that's done.<br />
<br />
The other thing that we're going to do is that we are going to add some features for our <i>cars </i>which we want to sell. So we're actually going to make it a text field and we are going to allow multiple values once we get through. [presses SAVE FIELD SETTINGS]. Ladada dada. [NUMBER OF VALUES] Number of values: unlimited. And of course we want a photo of our cars here. There's an existing field which we can use called a <i>product image</i> [near bottom of the screen] which we'll just drag-up and we might actually put that there. We'll put it in after the price because we can. And we'll save it as an <i>image</i>. It doesn't have to be "required". OK. That will do. We can play with the settings a bit later.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">OK: </span>We've got a <i>product type</i>.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;"> So</span><br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
Lets go and <span style="font-size: large;"><b> </b></span></div>
<div style="color: purple;">
<span style="font-size: large;"><b>>>add some <i>Cars</i></b></span>.</div>
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So - </span>There's a quick navigation-bar-thing here. I click on <i>add a product</i>. We've got two options. I could click on a standard product. Or we are going to use the product type <i>car</i>. Call it F1. We'll call this our red Farrari. We'll sell that for $49.95 including GST: a bargain Farrari. Get them while you can. Limited stock available. We'll go for our red Fararri [image]. We'll set the colour to be Ruby Red. And this one can have Magnesium Alloy wheels. And we'll <i>save</i> and add another. We'll repeat this. F2: this can be our pink Fararri. We'll sell this one for $59.95. In case you're wondering why we have a pink Fararri: I asked a bunch of people what colour Fararris they wanted and and Donna Benjamin said she wanted a pink Farrari, so we got that. [select] Penultimate Pink. This is going to be just for Donna. We'll save and add another one. Product <i>SKU</i>: we are up to F3. I think - I don't know what colours I have left. We'll go for colours this way. We'll go for a lime green Fararri. This is because Peter said he wanted a lime green Fararri. We'll call this "Lime Green Farrari". We'll sell this for $199.95 - it's a bit of a preimum model. We'll upload the image because I forget to do that sometimes. It is lushiously good lime green. That is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration">alliterarion</a> for you, in case you didn't notice. This one has no features because it is boring. And the last one, which is actually my favourite: this is my yellow starburst Farrari. Sorry if you are a Fararri lover. We are going to sell this for $499.99. We're going to add my starburst Fararri. And you can see it there: beautifull! It's yellow with red starbursts all-over it. [COLOUR DROP-DOWN MENU] It is a Yamourific Yellow Farrari. [FEATURES MENU IS PLAIN TEXT WITH A + SIGN TO ADD EXTRA FEATURES] Features: Starburst Paint. And while we're here we'll add another feature. A four-wheel drive Fararri. That sounds great!<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
<br /></div>
<span style="color: #073763;">OK: </span><span style="color: #073763;">We've got four </span><i style="color: #073763;">products</i><span style="color: #073763;">. They're in our store. But hang on a second. They are not showing-up. Does anyone know why they are not showing-up? Yet. Yes: that's right.</span> <u>Those Fararris are not showing up in a product displa</u>y. <br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
So</div>
<span style="color: #073763;">We are now going to </span><b><span style="font-size: large;"><br /><span style="color: purple;">>>add a <i>Product Display</i></span></span></b><span style="color: purple;">.</span>[Add Pruduct display on the 2nd row of the menu]<br />
We are going to call [TITLE field under Create Product Display] it a Fararri. [BODY field] "Fararris are cool you should buy one". (There's a reason why I don't write copy). And here [PRODUCT]: this is where we set-up our links to our products. So we've got an F1, an F2, an F3, and an F4. So you can put as many fields as you want in there, separated by commas. It's an auto-complete field. It's nice. It just works. You can have one; you can have 10. It doesn't matter. You can have 100 if you want it. I don't know what it performs like if you have 100. Probably still fine. And we'll save that. And we'll save that. Good. OK.<br />
<br />
And here's our Fararri. It's red. I can choose "yellow starburst Farrari". I wanted to do this so that I could show you what the yellow starburst Fararri looks like in all of its glory. And I just selected that here: and you can see the features updated; the image updated, the colour updated. I haven't done anything particularly special to make that happen. We've just added the fields to the <i>product type</i>. We added them to the standard <i>product display</i> straight out of the box. And that's what happens and that works. OK? That's cool.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">Now: </span>we are going to do a couple of nice little things. We don't actually like the product image being that big. So we are going to format that a little bit. We are going to manage the display. The default display of the product image. Now: this is where it gets a little bit messy.<br />
<br />
You modify the display settings for each field on the <i>product-type</i> display settings; not on the <i>product display settings.</i> There are some things you modify on the <i>product display</i>, but these ones you modify on the <i>product type.</i><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So</span> we are make this one - image type - we are going to display a medium image because it fits nicely, and we are going to hit <i>save</i>. Close that, and the page refreshes. And there we go. OK? Alright so far? All good.<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So the next thing that we are going to do is</span>:<br />
we are going to come-in here and we are going to modify our shopping cart a little bit. I mentioned that this was all built around <i>Views</i>. So I'm just going to give you a little example of what sort of thing we can do. We are going to edit the view here. And what I want to do is: I want to add the product code into the shopping cart. So that when I come to see the cart I can see what the model number is, at the shopping cart stage. So we are going to add a field. And we are going to add the <i>SKU</i> field. Hang-on: that's not on the list. This is the first little bit of magic which I am going to show you. We are going to cancel out of there. We are going to use the <i>relationships</i> [menu] to add a <i>relationship</i> to the Commerce - to the Product. Er - that's not actually the one I want. I want the car. Hang on. No: maybe that is the one I want. Add and configure relationships. Apply. OK. So we've got a reference here, theoretically, to the product. So when I come in here and select a product and choose "add", I should now have an option for SKU. There we go. It's in there. Product is linked. That's where the relationship is. Create a label. We'll rearrange that. And we want it to appear first because that's a nice place for it to appear. We'll apply that. We'll save a View. Come back. And there we've got the <i>SKU. </i>Product F3 is in our cart. And if we want to show <i>Features </i>of our product plugged-in there, or anything like that, we just follow exactly the same process. So if you wanted to: if I come back and add a red Fararri to my cart, and I come across to the checkout, and I want to show the colour in here, I could do exactly the same thing: add the colour field in the column using <i>Views</i> and it all happens nicely, all straight away; no particular work to make that happen. OK.<br />
That's pretty much what we need to do.<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="color: #073763;"> So</span><br />
The next thing we are going to do is we are going to play with <i><span style="font-size: large;"><b> </b></span></i><br />
<i><span style="color: purple; font-size: large;"><b>>>Shipping</b></span>, </i>and shipping is the first time when I'm going to show you a little bit about <span style="color: purple; font-size: large;"><b>how <i>Rules</i> works to configure the logic of our online store</b></span><span style="color: purple;">.</span><br />
<br />
The first thing we're going to do is we're going to jump-in to <i>Modules</i>. <br />
We're going to grab the <i>Commerce Shipping Module</i>, <br />
We're going to turn-on the <i>flat rate module</i>, and the <i>base shipping module.</i><br />
And the <i>Shipping UI </i>(user interface) because that's how we configure it. <br />
And we're going to save these things: click <i>save configuration</i>....<br />
...whenever you are ready...as I said: if anyone is willing to buy me a faster MacBook Pro, I'm all willing.<br />
So we're going to configure our shipping we click on <i>Configure Store</i>, come-in: click on <i>Shipping</i>, and that's all relateively self-explanatory. [moves to second tab called <i>shipping services</i>]. And what we are going to do is: we are going to configure two shipping services. We are going to configure a shipping service that is [types in <i>title</i> field] <i>Standard Shipping</i>, which we will call "<i>standard shipping</i>" [in the <i>Display Title</i> field]. We'll sell it for $15 including Goods and Services Tax. We'll save that. <br />
<br />
We are also going to add a service that is <i>free shipping</i> ; <i>free shipping</i>, <i>$0 including GST, flat rate. </i><br />
It could be $0 including GST: it doesn't really matter.<br />
<br />
And now when we come in here [to the cart?] all of a sudden we have got our shipping information - and we popped this [delivery address] in last time. And we've got options! We can choose our shipping costs. We can get free shipping or standard shipping. I don't know why I should ever want to choose standard shipping if I've got free shipping as an option, so let's now build some <i>rules</i> which detirmine when those should be displayed, and then we'll test them, make sure that they work, and go from there. So we'll click on <i>shipping</i>. Click on <i>shipping services</i>. And we are going to use this <b><i>configure component</i></b> link to modify the rules which detirmine when this gets displayed. So for <i>free shipping</i>, we are going to add a rate for shipping service to an order, but only when we do a data comparison, and we discover when we discover that the <i>commerce order - commerce order total amount - </i>is lower than (hang on: we are doing free shipping aren't we? We'll do it this way) ... is lower than: what do you reckon? $150? OK.<br />
<br />
Worth knowing a little trick of the trade: when you do this dollar comparison it is done in cents; not done in dollars. Now, this particular <i>rule</i> isn't multi-currency-aware and that can be done but that's just too complicate dso we won't worry about that. So if the order is less than $150 we don't actually want to give them free shipping; we want to not give them free shipping. There is a reason why we did that. I'll explain in a moment. <br />
<br />
We'll come-in and we will make the opposite rule for the standard shipping. Add condition. Data comparison. Commerce Order: Commerce Order Total. Amount. We are going to click Continue. "Is lower than $150": that's what we set it to - right? There we go. It's there. And we'll leave that there. <br />
<span style="color: #073763;"> Now.</span><br />
The reason why we set one rule as "less than $150 - NOT" and one rule as "less than $150" is because there is no less-than-or-equal comparison for the data comparison <i>rule. </i>That's the only reason why we did it that way. So if someone buys $150-worth of something: if we set one [rule] to be less than $150, and one to be greater than $150, and you order something worth $150, there's no shipping available to you and that's just a bit of a pain. That's why you do it that way. You could have quite complicated rules. You could have multiple conditions; you can have "or"s, you can have "and"s. All of those sorts of things. You can nest the conditions against each other, and pretty-much anything can be compared, and <i>Rules</i> is way-complicated, and there's brilliant screen-casts online. If you are writing <i>rules</i>, go online: watch the screencasts. And then when you are thoroughly confused, jump on IRC (internet relay chat): that's the way to go.<br />
<br />
By the way, while we are here: if you're looking for an IRC client and you're on a MAC and you haven't found one that you like: there's this great thing in the App. Store called <a href="http://www.codeux.com/textual/">Textual</a>. I found it this week. It actually makes IRC usable in my opinion, so I really like it.<br />
<span style="color: #073763;">So</span><br />
We've now got shipping in our store. And lets just prove that that works. We've got free shipping on this order. So let's go back, and let's modify our shopping cart, which presumably I can do by clicking here and press <i>cancel</i>. And coming in here. And it was $150. So lets just cancel one of these. So they're going to charge me shipping on my Fararri: what a rip-off! Seriously. (I could have just changed the quantity but I removed a very expensive item from my cart). Now my order is only - whatever it was - $15: give it a go. Now we've got Goods and Services Tax on there; it's got shipping at $13.64 ex-GST. You can change the order of those fields. We''l talk about that later. Pop-in a payment. Continue to the next step: order done! We are actually done! We've built our online store. It's fully functional. Beginning to end in under 25 minutes.<br />
<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
Just hang on a second. We'll get the microphone.</div>
<br />
<br />
<b><span style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;">Q</span></b>: Can you configure the shipping cost based on the post code?<br />
<b style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;">A</span></b>: Yes you can make the shipping - built on any rule. So you can do<br />
- instead of a quantity-based comparison -<br />
you can do an<br />
- address-based comparison -<br />
much in the same way that we do an address-based comparison to detirmine the tax rate. So I'll show you what the rule might look like, based on the tax rule. Here's the other place you can get to rules: configuration > workflow > rules. So this is just using the Rules module that's built-in to Drupal. And so in here we have a "calculate taxes GST" rule, and it's a general rule. We have an addition that's an "order address component" comparison. In here we've got "commerce line item", "order address", "country", bla bla bla bla bla.<br />
<br />
Keep in mind that you're using the flat-rate shipping module here. Most of the time if you're using postcode-based shipping, your shipping is probably calculated from an external service like Australia Post Shipping Calculator, or you're making use of (in Australia) Star Track Express, or TNT, or any of the other big shipping companies, and they can expose their APIs (application interface) which they can expose. Then someone can write a module, (whether that be yourself, or someone that knows stuff about writing modules - whatever that is) - to integrate those things together. There is an Australia Post module in sandbox on Drupal. I don't know if has been released. I don't know if it works. <br />
<br />
<span style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;"><b>Q:</b></span>I just have two questions for you. <span style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;"><b>A:</b></span> Yes. <span style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;"><b>Q:</b></span> One is:<br />
If you currently have an existing site in Drupal 7 and you want to turn it into a Commerce site, how relatively easy...? I mean from what I've looked at it looks pretty relatively easy to just drop the Commerce modules in there and then turn those nodes into products?<br />
<span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;"><b><span style="color: #660000;">A:</span></b></span>Yes. That's pretty much all you need to do. (Q - I'm sorry: go-on.) A: And then the thing to keep in mind is that there are dependencies for the commerce modules so you will also be running CTools, Views, Rules, and a bunch of things like that, which most people are probably be running anyway.<br />
<br />
<b style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Q:</span></span></b> And just one other question:<br />
If you've got a site that is currently in Drupal 6 / Ubercart (A: I'm sorry!) (Q: Not as sorry as I am: I've got wo work with it!) What would your recommendations be for getting into Commerce? Just literally starting fro scratch again?<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><b style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">A:</span></b></span> Yes. I'm talking about this with one of my clients at the moment who has a quite heavilly-hacked version of Ubercart running their website. It's running a slightly older version of Ubercart that hasn't had security patches applied to it for a little while which makes me a little bit nervous. So we are talking about the fact that we need to get to Drupal Commerce with them at some stage over the next year, and we are going to re-build it from the ground up.<br />
<span style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace; font-size: x-large;"><b>Q:</b></span> [inaudible: about transferring data from Ubercart to Commerce].<br />
I imagine it would be a relatively trivial module to export from Ubercart to Drupal 7 Commerce end-of-the-world. No one has written it yet. I have spent a lot of time looking at the tables in Ubercart and they're not all that sophisticated, so it could be done, but it's not something that... - it's probably not something for the feint hearted. <br />
We are going to re-input all the products; we are going to re-input all the data, re-create the users. And, you know, that is a problem with choosing to run your business logic out of a web-based ecommerce platform: what is the upgrade path?<br />
<br />
The guys that wrote Drupal Commerce were also the guys that wrote Ubercart, and in one of the rist presentations they gave publicly on Drupal Commerce, the very first thing that they said was: "Sorry". Ubercart is great provided it does what you want. If it doesn't do what you want then it's a little bit messy. The migration path is not very nice. Same with Drupal Commerce though. There are a lot of things it doesn't do. I started using Drupal Commerce when the first RC (request for comment) or Beta was released about 12 months ago. We half buit a site and got stuck because we discovered that a bunch of things weren't working and we stopped. And a lot of people have started working with Drupal Commerce just a little too early. I think in the lst three months is when it's really got to a point when it's mature enough that most of the things that you want are mostly there and mostly working. But it is a work in progress and the community is quite happy to help, so: get online and contribute. <br />
<div style="color: #660000; font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><b><br /></b></span></div>
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><b style="color: #660000;"><span style="font-family: "Courier New",Courier,monospace;">Q:</span></b></span>So where is all the link to the payment stuff? Does it link to Paypal and where do you configure that?<br />
A: I haven't turned-on any payment methods in this example store, except for the example payment method which is turned on by default. There is a Paypal payment method. There is an Authorize.net payment method. There is Securepay for Australia. There's a bunch of different payment gateways which developers have written and made available on Drupal.org. If you want a payment gateway that isn't there it's relatively trivial to write one to put in there - or find a developer. There's a few good Drupal developers in Australia that work with Drupal Commerce that are happy to write payment gateways if someone pays them, because they have to put food on their table.<br />
<div style="color: #073763;">
<br /></div>
<div style="color: #073763;">
I think that's about it.</div>
<hr />
<strike><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130413095747/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS2P7PYaZ6A&gl=US&hl=en">https://web.archive.org/web/20130413095747/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS2P7PYaZ6A&gl=US&hl=en</a> </strike><br />
<a href="http://drupaltv.org/video/building-awesome-e-commerce-store-25-minutes">http://drupaltv.org/video/building-awesome-e-commerce-store-25-minutes</a><br />
is another lecture from Real World Technology on how to set-up Commerce Kickstart very quickly. The catch with both lectures is how to install kickstart on a server before the clock starts ticking, or else how to convert a standart drupal installation from something like scritpulicious into a drupal commerce installation. If there's a quick way of doing that - I'd like to know if anyone wants to comment.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-68406542148276670582012-01-07T18:17:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:24:48.269+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: small;">I'm probably not concentrating on this properly, but <i>"</i></span><span style="font-size: small;"><i>installing products on Drupal Commerce Bulk Product Installer" </i>seems to be a video about how to use pre-set data, without any instructions for setting-up the data. I hope to crack this, because it's the only Drupal Commerce setup video I've seen that's like a set of instructions for driving a car for the first time rather than a review of how the car compares with others.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><br /></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;">I think the cruch is the instruction "</span>So I have this <i>Genre</i> field created here." - how, Mr free teacher? Maybe with enough twiddling I could discover by accident.<br />
<br />
Sadly, Drupal Commerce is very weak on bulk product installation as its writers admit, so a video in broken english about how to install data which was installed before the video is a frustrating thing to try to use.</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-45882618944787142512012-01-02T15:30:00.005+00:002018-10-21T10:24:49.715+01:00installing products on Drupal Commerce Bulk Product Installer<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<a href="https://vimeo.com/34385004">Vimeo.com/34385004</a> - video - <span style="font-size: large;"><br />
</span><br />
<br />
Hi this is Pedro Cambria from Commerce Guys in another commerce module video. This week I'm going to show you how to use Commerce Bulk Product Creation Module. This was the first contrib[uted] module created for Commerce, and allows you to bulk-create products. Basically if you [...?...] of your SKU, or you can generate your SKU easily by tokens, this module is going to be ideal for you. It manages the creation of the product, but also, when the product variations are created, this module has also [got] options to manage the displays associated with these variations. What this module doesn't manage, as yet, is to edit or modify the products once created. [1']<br />
<br />
<span style="color: cyan;">OK</span>. For this demo I have <b>Commerce Kickstart installed</b>, with these modules already installed: you need:<br />
<ul>
<li>Commerce Bulk Product Creation <a href="https://drupal.org/node/1389860">commerce_bpc</a>, and we see also the</li>
<li>[included but to be enabled - "Just to be sure: Did you <span style="background-color: white;"></span>enable the "Enable this field to function as an attribute field on Add to Cart forms." under "Attribute Settings" in the field settings of the taxonomy fields? This is currently required."] <a href="https://drupal.org/node/1313428">Taxonomy Reference Integration</a> bpc_taxonomy</li>
</ul>
<span style="color: cyan;">OK</span>. I have also a couple of product types. If I go to <i>Store>View Products>Product Types tab</i>, I have a<br />
<ul>
<li><b>Product with a single attribute</b>, and a</li>
<li><u><b style="color: magenta;">Product with taxonomy attributes</b></u> to demonstrate how this module works.[<b style="color: magenta;">So how do I get one?</b><span style="background-color: white;">]</span></li>
</ul>
<span style="color: cyan;">OK</span>. The first thing you need once you have installed these modules is to have a <br />
<i>Field</i> (<i>Store>View Products>Click on product created with a single attribute>manage fields)</i> [2'] <br />
or some fields of <i>list type</i> . Also <i>boolian</i>. And if you have the taxonomy_bpc module installed you can do this with taxonomy fields as well. So I have this <i>Genre</i> field created here. It's a list of texts. And here [further down the page in a box] you will see <i>Bulk Product Creation </i>options. We are going to use this field for bulk product creation operations. And we have that field that's an attribute in the cart. So. We have three <i>allowed values</i> [in the allowed values box]<br />
<br />
For Bulk Product Creation you have to go to <br />
<i>Store>Products</i> and in the <i>Product listing</i> you will find [just before "add a product"] a link [3'] <br />
<i>"Bulk Add Products".</i>] <br />
If you click here you are prompted to select one of the product types you have more than one that are eligible to be created by this massive operation. If you have a <i>product type</i> without any field that is eligible for this, it won't display and you won't be able to use this module. So if you don't have a <i>list</i> field, a <i>boolean</i> field, or <i>taxonomy</i> fields, you won't see the options here.<br />
<br />
Let's select a simple one. You'll see the interface of the module. [headed "Bulk add Product with a single attribute" in white, and "Bulk Product Creation Form" in black] Let's go step by step.<br />
<ul>
<li>First you have the Product Information. You can field [used as a verb meaning to fill-in the box or field] the SKU. This uses <i>tokens</i> to generate the values. Let's call it <i>"PRODUCT"</i>. On the right side you will see ["example variant SKU PRODUCT --Action"] an example cocaffeinated [?] as an example. It gets these examples [Genres: Action, Comedy and Drama appear] from the combinations. You need to set a <i>price</i> - a fixed price - for each variation. And a Title. That works the same way as the SKU [in being a form field to fill-in]. So you can see an example of how a product is created. You can configure this and we will see that in a moment. </li>
<li>Then you have the <i>combinations</i>. [headed <i>COMBINATIONS</i> in blue]. The <i>combinations</i> you can select. For example if you don't want to get Comedy generated you just fill this out and it won't generate it. Or you can select everything. [all options shown highighted in white on black]. </li>
<li>You also have "STATIC VALUES" [a blue heading to a box at the bottom of the screen]. You have combinations, and if you have fields that you generate as <i>static</i>; it won't generate any combinations for that.</li>
</ul>
We have create products; we have create products and create product display. So let's create product display in a minute. If you click - this has actually generated three new products. There are the three products that are a combination of our fields.<br />
<br />
You can configure how the bulk product creation module behaves. If you go to store>configuration>bulk product creation, you have some options here [on a page headed "PATTERNS" in black under "Bulk product creation" in white] <br />
<ul>
<li>You can define the SKU pattern, [6] with whatever separator you want, or whatever.</li>
<li>The Title as well.</li>
<li>And you have <i>Tokens</i> support for this. Some of the tokens you can use - title; a combination of values, and also you have the <i> </i></li>
<li><i>display node settings.</i>These are very interesting because here is where you decide if you want to create a display associated with the <i>product. </i>You can have the [radio] button "save and create display" [selected], and you will get into a pre-populated display form with the product generated. </li>
<li>You can avoid [destracting attention] from the user with this. You can [as it says on the screen] silently create a display node automatically, so the user won't notice. An excellant way to start hiding the user's display if you don't want the user to see that. </li>
<li>You can also create a display for every product. [it says "create a display node automatically for every product created] These [top two radio buttons if either is selected] will create a display for all the products created in a work operation, but this one will create a node for each product; it will associate 1:1. </li>
<li>And you can hide the display node fortunately. [this is the last of the 4 radio button options]</li>
</ul>
Let's use this first option [of the 4]. [Going down the screen to settings for created display nodes] You can also select a content type for the node created. <br />
<br />
[Going down the screen past Tokens to "after successful bulk creation, send the user to -"<br />
There's you're redirection. By default you get redirected to the list of products [first radio button] but you can also select a custom location and set the path here. So let's select this and let's...<br />
[8] <br />
...take a look at our other product type. We have a second product type with taxonomy attributes. I created a couple of taxonomies - one for colour and one for size. Size and colour and associated term reference here. So they are exposed to the bulk product creation, and also exposed as <i>attributes</i> in the cart form. OK. So if I go to <i>products>bulk add product with taxonomoy attributes</i> , I will have the same product information here for the fields <i>SKU, Price, Title.</i> Here [appearing to the left of these fields on the form] are the examples of what it will look like. So you have the combination. And here [on two new drop-down select menus below] we have all the combinations we want. If we select all of them we are ending with nine products created, but you could also avoid to create a combination for a small size, or just create it for a small size. If you have many fields, all of the values are going to be displayed here, so you can safely select whatever you want.<br />
[10]<br />
So after the field creation settings, let's create the product and create the display.<br />
I'm going to end. This is the <i>Node</i> form. It created [states "successfully created nine new products"] nine new products. We are in the product display creation form. When you are here you can fill all these fields for the display. And here in the <i>product selection</i> you will have [in a separated list] all the nine products that we have just created. So we save this [presses save; goes to the front page]. We have the product, we have the size, and we have the attribute form created.<br />
<br />
So check the whole [node] page [on Drupal.org] for the latest changes because this module is in active development. [11] There is a 1.0 branch that is stable, and all the new features are committed to the 2.0 branch. Bug fixes are of course committed to both branches. Thank you to Sven Laeur for maintaining this module and keeping-up to the active development. And also, if you are using <i>entity reference</i> with Commerce, you may want to check this <i>entity </i>extension; this entitiy reference integration ... which allows you to create values based on the values of the <i>entity reference field</i>. <br />
<br />
I hope you enjoyed this commerce sworay and see you in the next one.[answers on a postcard please]<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-891294540137545012012-01-01T10:33:00.001+00:002018-10-21T10:24:51.101+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">C:\WINDOWS\web\svhost.exe Windows cannot access the specified device, path, or file. You may not have the appropriate persmissions to access the item. <i>I'm using Windows XP and have tried a registry cleaner. This error doesn't seem to effect much except the deletion of certain files, for which I'm using http://www.emptyloop.com/unlocker/. Looking around on the net it seems tricky thing to solve. The problem started when I had both Bitnami and Aquia Drupal Stack installed and continues after removing Bitnami.</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><br />
<a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com"></a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-2320848034405391462011-12-31T12:53:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:24:52.970+01:00hoax<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">This isn't a good article or a short one; it's just copied out of curiosity.<br />
It was next to one that's quoted in <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/httpwww.html">another blog post here</a> about bad teaching by an economics professor who moved from the US to the UK in the 1960s, taking teaching standards with him. He would have read it. The problem of unhappy students and puzzled teachers applies particularly to sciences and economics I think, with economics students the ones to complain.<br />
<br />
The problems are<br />
(1) Presumption that entrance threshold exam scores are low - which was true of the Keele foundation year that I signed-up to in 1983 but not of the main degree course.<br />
(2) Colleges for 20-odds ignoring previous work done as teenagers, which was true of Keele economics department. At the time, social science A-levels were often done by repeated essay-writing from original sources; they weren't bad, but we did a bit about X-shaped diagrams in economics A-level as well.<br />
(3) Presumption that you need to learn or teach theory before practice, starting with X-shaped diagrams in economics for example on my university course, going-on to teach them again in year two as the AD AS model, and again in year three as revision. On this system, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morris,_1st_Viscount_Nuffield#Before_motor_car_manufacture">Mr Morris Lord Nuffield</a> would never have started repairing bicycles in his parents' garden shed aged 15. He would have stayed-on at school for Physics A-level, then gone to some kind of higher education, and only then be allowed to put all the theory together to repair a bicycle at some age like 25. They would have taught how the wheel worked at A-level, then again in the first year of higher education, then possibly in the middle year, and then they would have explained wheels again to the young Mr Morris as revision.<br />
(4) Government getting interested in pointy things, instead of social insurance which is its main job.<br />
<br />
<fieldset>Related:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset><br />
<fieldset>Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a student in the 1980s <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Bad Economics Teaching</a>: how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s</a> </fieldset><br />
<hr /><h2 style="text-align: left;"></h2><h2 style="text-align: left;">IS HIGHER EDUCATION A HOAX? </h2><a href="https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/215844.Robert_V_Daniels">Robert Vincent Daniels</a> - US university teacher - 1960<br />
<br />
WHEN A RUSSIAN ROCKET blasted itself successfully into orbit in October, 1957, and launched the term sputnik into the international vocabulary, the reverberations were felt nowhere in the universe as strongly as in the American educational world. Americans, presuming that no one else should ever lead them in technology, were convulsed in a panic of national humiliation. A scape-goat was demanded, and education—traditionally the American's recourse as a cure-all—had to bear the onus. This belated concern with the nation's schools would have been entirely salutary had it been less emotional and more thoughtful, less transitory and more profound. The panic has now subsided, and apart from the John Dewey bogey and federal loans to a few science students, it has left no important change. The real problems, which have long been with us, are still being overlooked. <br />
<br />
A curious fact about the sputnik panic in American education was the exemption of the colleges from the pangs of national self-reproach. The high schools have borne the brunt—though not without deserving it. Apparently people assumed—and still do—that we need only get the largest possible number of students through high school and into college, perhaps with a push in the direction of science, and then everything will take care of itself automatically. College teachers may be popularly scorned as soft-boiled egg-heads, but the college as an institution commands unthinking respect. Actually, the true merits are the reverse. College teachers on the whole are able, commendable, self-sacrificing in-dividuals, but the system of college education in the United [p355] States is — unbeknownst to most, except the teachers — in a critical state. <br />
<br />
There are at present approximately three million students in institutions of so-called higher education in the United States. The numbers of youth aspiring to join them are growing ever larger, thanks to the World War II birth rate and the ambitions fed by prosperity. If the demand can be met, it is conservatively estimated that, in a decade or less, double the present number of students will be studying at what is supposed to be the college level. Quantitatively this is all that the most agitated sputnik alarmists could wish for. <br />
<br />
But in the qualitative respect the prospects are not to automatically bright. Americans seriously deceive themselves if they imagine that the stream of college graduates pouring through the open floodgates means the miraculously expanded production of mature and dextrous minds. What do our millions in college really mean, when the college, betrayed by the boggy foundation of the American high school, sinks to the level of a remedial secondary boarding school? Real education is left to the graduate schools, where the same process has set in. They must expand to give the capable secondary-education products of the colleges an opportunity for genuine college-level study, whether of a general or vocational nature. The waste is colossal, in money, faculty talent, and students' time--everyone is taking years more to reach the level for which his capacities destine him. We have not yet reached the end: as the mass of master's and doctoral candidates multiplies in search of a college education, a brand-new rung has to be added to the ladder—"post-doctoral" training—so that a talented few can get the training as experts that they missed before.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">I. Democracy and the Right to Education </h3>The causes of the debasement of standards in American higher education are not hard to diagnose, though the cure [p356] may be difficult. Some of the most cherished assumptions about the "American way of life" must be called into question if real change is to be brought about. Our educational system is professedly operated according to the principle that access to education is something people have a right to. Since it is clear that a democratic society most insist on equal rights for all citizens, it follows from the first assumption that everyone has an equal right to go to college, and that any educational selectivity is "undemocratic." No less an authority than the President's Committee on Education Beyond the High School (mercifully, not on "Higher Education") has declared, "This country will never tolerate the nurturing of an educational elite." <br />
<br />
Such a proposition betrays a dubious comprehension of the nature of education, even if it renders the nation's will accurately. The idea that practically everyone can and should be educated equally is an irresponsible perversion of the very essence of education. Do the proponents of the Committe's view actually believe that none should be educated beyond the level to which all can be brought, that the lowest common denominator will determine the limits of attainment for all? Undoubtedly not, for it would require the stifling of all specialized and technical training that rests on superior ability, and lead speedily to national disaster. The Russian earth satellites dealt a heavy blow to equalitarianism in the preparation of engineers and scientists. <br />
<br />
The President's Committee more probably had in mind the less far-fetched notion that all students should be educated together in the same system, with the more talented continuing farther. This is the usual practice—everyone swims in the some educational channel, as far as his ability can carry him; at any age level, education is the some for all, with special preferment for none. This position is still a serious threat to educational quality, since it disregards completely the importance of sequence and preparation, not to [p 357] mention the varying learning capacities of different students at the same age. <br />
<br />
Many educators seem to feel that all persons at a given age-level should pursue the same course and get the same educational "opportunity." The level of work has to be held down where all can manage it, regardless of their ability or future needs. While it is often the custom in large high schools to offer separate college-preparatory and non-college curricula, to many students aspire to college and its benefits (half or more of all high-school students) that the benefit of selectivity is lost. Very little solid preparation is provided for the students who go on to advanced work, even though they may have the ability to undertake such preparation before-hand; the lost opportunities of the high-school years are tragic. The fault lies with the disastrous assumption that the same education is appropriate for students who are ending their education at a given level, and for those who are going ahead. The idea of separate paths is denounced as undemocratic, without thought of the need which a democratic society above all others has for a good proportion of members who have been well educated. <br />
<br />
Unfortunately, our society is already suffering and will suffer still more from a dearth of properly educated individuals. The college gets students who <br />
(1) are unprepared because they have been given a "democratic" education, the standards of which have been watered down to the remedial grade-school level; and who <br />
(2) come in increasingly large numbers with increasingly dubious capacity for achieving the objectives of college education. <br />
<br />
With these unprepared and often incompetent freshmen the college has to undertake the simultaneous tasks of <br />
(1) giving them the college preparatory material that they should have gotten before (i.e., the function of a remedial high-school); <br />
(2) attempting to give them the college-type "liberal" education (i.e., teaching them to think); and <br />
(3) imparting vocational career training [p358] to them. Any one of these tasks is enough for a four-year institution, even granting the requisite ability among its student body. In combination, and with the standards of student admission and retention being what they are, the task imposed on the college is insuperable. <br />
<br />
No wonder, then, that in this age of mass education the capable student rarely realizes his potential. He fails to get in high school the solid foundation of information and skills which he needs for advanced intellectual effort, and which he is best able to acquire at this age. The college comes too late, and with too little systematic concern for the student's basic mental development. The average graduate retains from his college experience little more than could be taught in high school to superior groups, plus some specialized training (the "major") that is too weak, too haphazard, and too un-related to career goals to be of much use. The specific objec-tive of liberal education in colleges (which, if I may dare to assert it, is to make people into intellectuals) proves to be a shimmering mirage. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">II. The Aims of Education—In Reality </h3>This state of affairs has certainly not been willed by educators, whatever their philosophies. It is the result of pressure —pervasive social pressure—which the educators and their institutions are in no position to resist. The perversion of higher education has come about in response to what American society has demanded, and the demands of American society represent a perverted idea of what education is for. <br />
<br />
While the possible aims and objectives of higher education are manifold, the main alternatives can be grouped into four areas. People can be trained with primary emphasis on preparing them to contribute to national defense and the technical progress of the country; to contribute creatively to the cultural and scientific heritage of civilization; to develop their individual personalities, capacities, sensitivities, [p359] and interests; or to pursue a career and make money. There are two separate choices here—between the individual and the social emphasis, and between material and non-material objectives. Traditionally, American education has been in-dividual and material in its orientation—training the individual for personal advancement and business success. Of late, public concern has also extended to the social ends of material knowledge, thanks to the challenge which Soviet technical progress has posed to American national power. On the non-material side, however, little is intended or ac-omplished save by accident. The common talk of develop-ing the student as a person is rarely taken seriously, and the cultural tradition survives only because individuals are able to exploit it to the advantage of their careers. <br />
<br />
The real purpose for which education is usually sought in this country is personal advancement. The college degree is regarded as a ticket for a life-time ride on the escalator of success. Computations have even been made of the actual monetary value of the degree in terms of the increment of income that it brings in over the years. For the female students, as everyone knows, the important objective is not the degree of B.A., but the esteemed degree of MRS. which customarily follows it. The woman goes to college in order to attach herself to a man who has won a fair guarantee of status and success, also by going to college. What is actually important about college work, from this point of view, is not what is learned, but the badge of status which is acquired, and the friends, contacts, and angles that are accum-ulated or explored. The business firm, recruiting its sales-men or its personnel administrators or its glorified decks—anyone who meets the public—cares not so much for the specific training its candidates have had, as for their college-bred respectability (and perhaps for the general intelligence and responsibility which that presumably carries with it). The college man has the mark of upper-middle-class rank, [p360] admitting him to the careers where prestige is expected and confirmed. It is no accident that the armed services, and particularly the more caste-conscious Navy, were so solicitous for the educational background of their officer corps even in the direst days of wartime. <br />
<br />
The difficulties of American higher education are attributable to a curious combination of circumstances. Both our democratic professions and our class-conscious practices impose their contradictory demands. Everyone wants to get ahead, and education is the means to do this (thanks not to what it is, but to what it symbolizes). On the other hand, we insist on the principle of equality of opportunity: the educa-tional means for getting ahead must be open to everyone on an equal basis. It is undemocratic, supposedly, to favor one person with a superior education that gives him the opportu-nity to get ahead, while another is condemned to labor among the helots. The same education for all, the exclusion of none, passing marks for everybody, and the submergence of un-usual and valuable talent because the talented must not be given an unfair advantage in the competitive scramble to get ahead—this is what our national ideology demands of the educational system as a whole. <br />
<br />
Relieved of practically all challenge or pressure, college students are all too often a spoiled, apathetic, or devil-may-care lot. They choose their courses on the basis of minimum work and the most convenient time of day; content counts for nothing—which does not matter, since it is so promptly for-gotten anyway. After a year or so some students cannot even remember which courses they have taken, let alone any of their substance. Meanwhile, students most kill time while they serve off their four years. This necessity is admirably provided for by the facilities and activities which the average campus offers. Students enjoy a continuous orgy of fraternity socializing and alcoholizing, punctuated with spectacular mob celebrations. [p361] The colleges lead the whole nation as far as spectator sports are concerned, ranging from mock war on the gridiron to the vicarious eroticism of campus queen elections. With those who actually play the game we are not here concerned, since they are less students than paid performers, honest members of the university service staff, to to speak. The social and athletic side of college is indeed so successful that millions of additional students, who are devoid of intellectual interest and otherwise would simply not have bothered, are drawn by the lodestone of the ivy-covered Elysium. They cannot resist the attraction of the four-year pastoral idyll of academic life, and come surging through the gates to join the big picnic. <br />
<br />
But as the student totals are swelled by everyone in search of social status or amusement, there are untoward consequences even for those to whom education is but the ante-room to success. As the number of people gilded with the veneer of higher education multiplies, the market value of a college degree gets watered down. There are, naturally, only a limited number of positions at each level in the hierarchy of success and prestige, but more and more people are getting educations and competing for these positions. Naturally, for any given position the people with the most education have the advantage; as others seek to match their rivals, those with still more education will be preferred. The typist for whom a high-school diploma used to be more than enough now gives way to the girl fresh out of junior college or the secretarial school; the clerk must now have all of college behind him; the office manager who formerly did fine on four years of college must now have a graduate degree in business administration; and so on. In short, the educational price of social and occupational status is being bid up and up. <br />
<br />
This is hardly the end. The democratic principle still operates. As it becomes necessary to have more education to achieve a given level of success, the cry goes up to broaden [p362] educational opportunities and lower the undemocratic barriers of prerequisites and admission standards. High school must be made available—and passable—to everyone; hence, high school is reduced to the grade school level. College must be made available to everyone who wants it, or thinks he wants it. Some people think that because they are taxpayers their children have a legal right to go to the state university regardless of their merit. College accordingly sinks to the high-school level. We are witnessing a process of educational inflation. More and more people spend more and more time (and money) getting education that is poorer and poorer, in order that all may compete on a democratic basis for the preferred positions in a social hierarchy. This is the force which is driving American education into the dismal swamp of mediocrity. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">III. Consumer Sovereignty in Education </h3>Economists employ in their jargon the expression "consumer sovereignty" to denote the situation in which the nature of what is produced and sold is determined not by some outside power that thinks it knows best, but by the preferences of the buyers - in other words, where the customer is always right. In an all too literal sense, this is the state of affairs in American higher education. Educators have not only lost control over whom they admit and the prerequisites for higher education; they have also lost control over the nature and quality of their own instruction. <br />
<br />
The student-customers are accorded free choice of institutions, curricula, and courses. Thanks to this unrestricted selection of educational tidbits in the academic supermarket, no one is in a position to see that students get a balanced diet or the proper amount of roughage. Items which are hard to swallow simply will not move: subjects which are not pabubated for spoonfeeding, but are instead presented in their true nature as difficult challenges, will go stale on the shelf for [p363] lack of takers. For the student it is all the same: the credit hours are totalled up, whether they come hard or easy, and the prestige embodied in the degree or the husband is proudly carried off. College faculties appear to be incapable of making students do that is good for them. Students cannot be driven with any discipline through a course of training that is hard, unpalatable, but in the end rewarding. <br />
<br />
The prevailing attitude toward the educational process among educators themselves and especially among administrators in institutions of higher learning is no different from the industrialist's view of his manufacturing establishment. The college is in business; students are its customers; credit hours and degrees are its product. Operations of the enterprise are guided strictly according to the rules of business: strive to boost output and sales (enrollment and degrees); maximize profits (the contributions, appropriations, and prestige which accrue to the institution); endeavor by all means to keep production at capacity, and lower the price (standards of admission and passing) if part of the plant is in danger of stand-ing idle for lack of customers. <br />
<br />
Successful operation of the educational enterprise depends, in the last analysis, on the appetite and good will of the customer. Since the customer is always right, nothing can be done which will offend him. The student must be "sold" on his courses. If instructors insist on standards that are unreasonable, the students will go elsewhere, and enrollment will drop. This is disastrous, since enrollment is to often taken to be the supreme test of educational success. Any instructor, department, or branch of a university which tries to make its instruction rigorous is likely to be passed over by the multitude and perhaps forced out of business. <br />
<br />
Thanks to this overriding concern about the customers and the enrollment, it is difficult to hold college students to meaningful standards of achievement. Apart from the self-motivated few, no more than to pathetic minimum of work can be [p364] evoked from them. Difficult assignments like the writing of papers cease to be imposed. The test of a teacher is his popularity—which at some institutions is literally voted on by the students: the successful teacher is the clown. Higher education has become a juvenile branch of the entertainment industry. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">IV. Academic Entrepreneurship </h3>The blame for the lapse of standards in the colleges does not lie entirely in one direction. It must be shared by the educators themselves, since they are responsible for allowing themselves to be cast in the role of hawkers of educational merchandise. There are extenuating circumstances, to be sure--particularly the impossibility, with the mass of raw material that college teachers have to contend with, of making headway toward the college's traditional objectives. So faculties have found another outlet by going into business. Tremendous energy is often devoted to expanding the enterprise, building the department, developing new fields of instruction. More buildings are demanded; more institutes, more programs, more courses, are added, with little regard for the number or needs of the students, who are only the excuse and not the purpose for all this effort. Quantity rules over all: maximize the enrollment, maximize the budget, maximize the staff, maximize prestige, maximize "research" (for the sake of prestige), maximize power. Such are the governing values of the industrial bureaucracy which administers the modern American factory-university. <br />
<br />
In sympathy with the educators thus ensnared in a world not of their own making, I should point out that they seem often to be driven to this behavior by the otherwise totally unreal nature of the milieu in which they work: serious men surrounded by gawking juveniles, going through the motions of an educational operation which has lost most of its meaning. Campus politics are probably so bitter because the faculty [p365] have no other adult arena and the alternative is to lose their minds. <br />
<br />
The often dismal state of teachers' morale tragically compounds the damage to higher education. Faced with a near-hopeless task in dealing with their students, faculties have turned away from it altogether, to concern themselves not with education but with the impressive elaboration of their institutions and programs. Courses are given for the sake of the courses and of appearances in the catalogue; students are not the object but merely the excuse. Sometimes the excuse breaks down: Acre was the case of the well-known university which hired a professor (against the wishes of the department concerned) primarily for the purpose of offering a specialized course on a certain exotic area of the world, only to find when the term began that not a single student wanted to sign up for the course! This is just an extreme case of the proliferation of specialized courses and programs, packing and merchandising fragmented bits of useless and soon-to-be-forgotten knowledge, while the fundamental task of educating the hapless, confused, unprepared students is completely lost sight of. <br />
<br />
The modern American university is taking more and more students, who demand and receive admission for purposes of their own, and using them for purposes of its own. Neither purpose—neither the students' competition for careers with prestige nor the faculties' drive to build their enterprises—has very much to do with education. The two sets of purposes do, however, dovetail; student and faculty purposes facilitate one another's achievement, while both work to exclude real education from the process. <br />
<br />
The trouble is deeply rooted in the underlying values of American society. Education—real college-level education of the thinking process—is neglected because people are not really interested in it, or because other interests are allowed to overwhelm it. The interests and values which are responsible for perverting higher education are, to be sure, difficult [p366] to check: they prevail throughout our society. They are nothing more nor less than the interests and values of competitive success in a world of big organizations. Students and faculties alike have succumbed. The university, in this society whose every facet is industrialized, has truly become a diploma mill. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">V. Mass Education Versus Selective Education </h3>If higher education is to mean anything at all, it must become a serious business: the strenuous development of stu-dents with the requisite capacity. Anything else means tremendous waste—as at present the time and money of the average student is wasted in a drawn-out, low-standard education, and as the time and talent of the superior student are wasted by the same thing. Education must be hard work. <br />
<br />
Furthermore, the educational goal must itself be stated anew. Education is provided by society for a social purpose. It represents the cumulation of aeons of human effort and experience, which is far out of proportion to any payment the individual may be making for his educational privilege. The purpose of higher education should properly be thought of as the preparation of talented individuals to render as best they can a social service and make their maximum contribution to society. <br />
<br />
This position is not incompatible with democracy; it is essential to take this view if both democracy and education are to survive together. Currently education is most often regarded as a right, from which personal benefits accrue. From this foliows the basic fallacy that education must be made available to all on an equal basis. Actually education (particularly higher education) should be regarded as a privilege, carrying with it definite obligations. The aim is not an "elite," but a democratic society whose talented members have both the ability and the sense of obligation to make their [p367] most effective contribution to the material and spiritual de-velopment of the whole. We will get nowhere if we do not recognize wide differences in individual abilities. Differences are especially wide in the particular ability which is (or ought to be) the foundation for "liberal" education—the ability to conceptualize, i.e., to use abstract ideas, to make inferences, to generalize, etc. Hundreds of thousands of students now pursuing liberal arts courses are wasting their time and their parents' or the public's money (except from the standpoint of social success) because their abilities simply do not run in this direction. It is also essential to recognize that the effective training of superior students must begin early. It is too late to wait until college, when even the capable students must lose time in remedial courses. In mathematics, English, foreign languages, and history, foundations must be laid down and abilities trained for many years before. The time for basic memory work expires before the end of the high-school age: students who have not learned spelling, grammar, dates, geography, and the multiplication table by that time will never do to with any ease or rapidity. College cannot really be what it claims to be unless its candidates have been rigor-ously and specially trained beforehand. We most face up to the obvious implications of these natural conditions of the educational process. Education of the college type has to be much more selective than it is now, and the selection has to begin much earlier. It is unfair both to future college students and to those who do not go beyond secondary school to expect both groups to pursue courses which are the same in content or equal in intensity. This means that high-school students most be channelled into more clearly distinguished curricula than at present (or into separate schools where feasible or advisable), and especially that the standards and requirements for the academically-bound students must be radically stiffened.[p368] The immediate future and the problems which it poses for the colleges point to an obvious first step. We now are in a crisis of too much quantity and too little quality, and the prospect is a sudden doubling of the quantity. Both the quality problem and the awesome problem of expansion can be attacked if the colleges simply refuse to expand, refuse to admit any larger numbers of students, keep the excess out by raising entrance requirements—or, more often, by re-estab-lishing entrance requirements. We are at a critical turning point. It is quality or quantity—education or the diploma mill. The choke must be made, and made quickly. The coming increase in the college-age population brings a hidden blessing—the chance to raise standards without the embar-rassing necessity of decreasing present enrollments. If this chance is not taken—if the country insists on expanding college facilities to take care of everyone who wants to be ad-mitted—higher education in the United States, with isolated exceptions, will be done for. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;">VI. Adapting the Colleges </h3><br />
If we grant the essential condition of holding fast on the en-rollment front, then the creation of a selective, effective, and democratic liberal education will require three major changes. One concerns the problem of mass education in the secondary schools, and how to square this with the need for college prerequisites. The second is the revision of college organization and instruction. The third has to do with society's attitude toward education and the student, and how he is selected and financed. Providing a really effective college-preparatory course at the secondary school level, with separate instruction and higher standards for the college-bound students, appears to be a task of staggering difficulty. There is a temporary remedy which suggests itself when one recognizes that most of what the college does in the first two years could and should have [p369] been done in high school. The solution is to short-circuit the latter by making a general practice of admitting all college-caliber students (measured, one must hope, by a standard higher than the present) into college after, say, the first two years of high school. Then introductory college courses would commence, taught, as they have to be even now, without assuming any prior foundation. The advantage is that two additional years would be gained for serious study. We could take these two years plus what are now the first two years of college and give a reasonably sound liberal education, with-out intruding upon the ground of specialized or vocational study which is now attempted in the college major. The latter, in turn, would be freed from the encroachments of general education, and could and should become a much more serious, effective, and practical undertaking, handled, perhaps, on the intellectual level of the present master's degree. Equally important with student standards and background for the attainment of a genuinely effective system of higher education is the revision of the present organization of in-struction. College curricula are now for the most part hopelessly fragmented and bogged down in the quantity mania of courses, grades, and credit hours. There should be a single basic curriculum: teaching how to think. Thought-processes must be imparted in a systematic and coordinated way in everything the student studies. There is nothing more ridicu-lous than the established practice of dividing a student up four, five, or site ways among as many instructors and having each go to work on him without any relation at all to what the others are doing. Finally, there should be no wide range of electives and specialties until professional training is undertaken. There are certain things which every educated person ought to know about; the faculty knows what these are bet-ter than the student does; and it is these studies which he should pursue as directed during his period of non-professional liberal education. [p370]<br />
<br />
<br />
The last requirement is simple in nature, if not in application. Higher education is hard work, or should be; it is given in the interests of society as well as the individual, or should be; it should be open to all on an equal basis, with ability the sole criterion of qualification. Granting these conditions, all serious students deserve and must have public support for the pursuit of their education. This can be extended both through liberal scholarships supported by both the national and state governments, and through loans which will be written off in whole or in part in return for such public service work as teaching. The student who has to work on the side to pay his way through college is inevitably sacrificing some of his educational accomplishment, and this defeats the whole purpose of having him in college. Society is training in the colleges its future servants and benefactors; it owes them firm support, and they in turn ought to incur an honorable obligation of service. <br />
<br />
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-57695730971491086352011-12-29T15:26:00.007+00:002018-10-21T10:24:56.600+01:00http://vimeo.com/33628943 Practical Drupal Commerce, with Ryan Szrama at Drupal Camp Austin, Texas, 2011<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Transcription of a free-to-watch video on Vimeo. Translaters see footnote. Best seen on another screen but this is the ebedded version<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="281" mozallowfullscreen="" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/33628943" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="500"></iframe>
<a href="https://vimeo.com/33628943">https://vimeo.com/33628943</a><br />
<br />
HI - I guess we'll go ahead & get started. You are in the<br />
<b><span style="font-size: large;">Practical Drupal Commerce Session</span></b>. I am Ryan Schama of <a href="http://www.commerceguys.com/">Commerce Guys</a>. I live in Louseville Kentucky but I - I've been to two Drupal Camp rosters. I went to the first one two years ago. I don't know why we didn't make it out last year, but I was pretty bummed, and so I pushed hard for us to come this year. <br />
<br />
And what I'm going to be doing today is not talking about <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/"><i>Drupal Commerce</i></a> so much as showing what it would actually look like to set up a site <i>using Drupal Commerce</i>. And I have a couple of demo sites that I'll also use to show you examples. I'm going to treat it like I've just been given a project by a client to build a <i>Dallas Cowboys</i> fan site. Just selling some Dallas Cowboys Merch[andise] . And if you want to introduce some <i>Scope Creep</i> as I am building this site feel free to raise a hand, and we'll take in a different direction. So feel free to introduce some scope creep on me this one time only!<br />
1' [one minute]<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<br />
So just a little bit of background about myself. I have been with Commerce Guys since 2009. We were just three guys and now we are up to about 36 based in the US & Paris. Part of that growth came out of a merger with the french company AF83 that put-on Drupalcom Paris if you were there. Their Drupal guys came-in to Commerce Guys and we started afresh in Paris. Which is why I am a cheese fan and have brought some cheese with me.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Whenever commerce first started I was the project lead for <i>Ubercart</i> for <i>Drupal 5</i> and <i>Drupal 6</i> and we were getting close to thinking about <i>Drupal 7 Ubercart</i>, and that's about when <i>Commerce Guys</i> started, and I quickly because <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/"><i>Drupal Commerce</i></a>. So I am no longer the project lead and maintainer of <i>Ubercart</i>; instead I am the lead developer for <i>Drupal Commerce</i>. Which is a complete re-write of <i>Ubercart</i>, with a functionally equivalent <i>feature-set</i> on <i>Drupal 7</i>, taking advantage of Drupal 7's <i>Core Entities</i> and <i>Fields</i> and <i>Rules2</i> and <i>Views 3</i>, and so-on, and so-forth, and everything good that has come accross the <i>Drupal</i> world in the last couple of years </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
My last Ubercart presentation was here in Drupal Camp Austin in 2009. <a href="https://vimeo.com/9322909">Vimeo.com/9322909</a><br />
I said<i>"here is what you can do with Ubercart" </i>because we had an application mind-set in which what really mattered was the out of the box experience.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
What you could do once you had installed the actual modules themselves.<br />
What kind of store would you have?<br />
How few steps would have have before you started selling your stuff online using <i>Ubercart</i>?<br />
<br />
I guess that what that sort of mind-set got us was a lot of application dead ends for developers to really customise what they could do with their ecommerce web site. And so you had challenges with multi-lingual sites; multi-currency web sites. We had challenges with sites where you didn't have traditional product models : where you didn't need a product page for example; where you just wanted a sort of product floating somewhere like an event registration or a membership or something else that's not a traditional product-page-type-of-thing. You were really tied to <i>Ubercart</i>'s understanding of your business model or understanding of your product presentation or checkout workflow. You couldn't customise the checkout. You couldn't rip the checkout and the cart in the checkout apart. But if you installed everything at once and needed a store to run as Ubercart ran it was great! It still is. If you need to build a site right now, using <i>Ubercart</i> on <i>Drupal 6</i>, you can probably get going quite quickly. A lot of the contrib[uted module]s are there that you would need. It's still very application focused. If you think about Drupal: how many other modules do you use on a consistant basis, where all you really care about is how the module works once you install it? <br />
4'<br />
There are some smaller-feature modules were that is true, but you don't just install <i>Views</i>, and expect not to have to tinker with <i>Views</i>. You install <i>Views</i> because you want a system that you can customise how you are displaying your content on different parts of the web site. Or your RSS feeds or your export feeds or whatever. Or if you think about <i>Content Construction Kit (CCK) at the time</i>. You didn't just install <i>CCK</i> out of the box. The major <i>contributed systems</i> in <i>Drupal</i> were more about giving you a <i>tool set</i> or a framework for building a different kind of thing, whether it was your <i>content type</i> or your <i>display page</i> or perhaps your <i>organic group system</i> or whatever else.<br />
<br />
<i>Drupal 7</i> has really privelaged us to think again about how we can build an <i>ecommerce framework </i>(we call it) that focusses less on what you can do with it out of the box and more on what you can build with it. We took queues [ideas] from <i>Views </i>and <i>CCK</i>. At the same time <i>Rules </i>and <i>Organic Groups</i> [modules] also did this. We were focussing more on the components that you need to drive your ecommerce web site, and how they are loosely-coupled but can be adapted and mixed-and-matched to create the ecommerce experience that you need for your website.<br />
<br />
What I like to say is that <i>Drupal Commerce</i> will give you a store <i>out of the box</i> if you just install all of the modules. But it is going to make hardly any hard-coded assumptions about your business logic; about your business model, about whatever it is that you are selling, about how you need to display it. Hardly any hard-coded assumptions. There are less tools for you as a developer to work <i>against</i>; more tools for you to work <i>with</i>.<br />
<br />
We have let people from the git clone [?] use <i>Drupal Commerce </i>for a wide variety of sites. The very first one that was really big and publicised was Eurocentres.com, which if you want to check it out is ...<u>res</u>.com instead of <u>ers</u>.com because it is a European site.<br />
6'<br />
What they did was they were selling language learnig courses all over the world with a multi-lingual, multi-currency site, with highly custom <i>add-to-cart-forms</i> and custom checkout processes. It was just a very custom web site that was built because of <i>Drupal Commerce</i>. They could not have done this it on <i>Drupal 6</i>. They really needed the new data models and the flexibility of fieldable entities and the changes in rules to make their stuff happen. <br />
<br />
And quickly after that, like way on the other side of the map was a donation-based web site where it was <i>donation</i> campaigns. It was kind of a <i>Kickstarter.com</i> for green initiatives in different boroughs in New York City called <a href="http://ioby.org/"><i>IOBY.org</i></a>. And next thing was they're creating a totally custom <i>add-to-cart </i>process, where you're able to specify a donation amount for the project, map it to a campaign, and then they had their <i>Views</i> you know, taking all the payments for this one campaign, and sort of filling-up their "progress meters" and all this stuff. Because all they knew they needed was a way to track a monetary amount linked to a line item which references in itself some campaign. And then they could do all the visualisation and reporting that they needed to do. And because of the flexibility of <i>Drupal Commerce's </i>pricing system they were easily able to sort-of change the price of whatever donation product was in the shopping cart to match whatever the customer said. And I can actually demonstrate that although how that fits-in to selling Cowboy shirts I'm not sure!</blockquote>
<br />
[screen: let's build a cowboys fan site that .....<br />
<ul>
<li>sells autographed merchandise</li>
<li>sells official team jerseys</li>
<li>lets you customize a jersey</li>
<li>charges flat rate shipping</li>
<li>offers bulk shipping discounts</li>
<li>collects 6.25% Texas sales tax]</li>
</ul>
<br />
<span style="color: cyan;">But</span> I said I didn't want to talk too much [7-8"] about Drupal Commerce sort of high-level without just digging into a site. But we're going to do that now and this is sort of the template that we're going to follow here.<br />
7'22"-7'44" repeats screen<br />
I really do want this session to be practical & hands-on, so if you do have any questions just raise your hand and I will call on to you.<br />
7'55"<br />
<span style="color: cyan;">And</span> I'm also going to show this off. So this is my <i>Do It With Drupal</i> site that's a clone of <i>Apple</i>'s online store. So I use this to preface, I guess, how we are going to sort of build stuff. I'll give you a visual sort of how-we-are-going-to-build-stuff that we can look at while we are waiting for our Drupal site to install. <br />
<br />
Alright: so. Lets flip-over to the browser, because the first thing we are going to do is install <i>Drupal Commerce</i>. So I just got handed this project; I just got tasked with it. I need to build a store quickly, and one of the fastest ways that you can get up and running with <i>Drupal Commerce</i> is with <i>Commerce Kickstart</i>. It's an installation program that I maintain. That will install <i>Drupal Commerce</i> with all of its dependencies. That includes <i>Views</i>, <i>Rules</i>, <i>Addressfield</i>, <i>C[haos]tools</i> and ... [screen shows a progress bar and lists of modules installing]<br />
So it will install all its dependencies and a couple of modules and configue to make sure that your shopping cart block is showing, to make sure that your permissions have been granted properly and everything else. And it will also give me an opportunity to set-up some sort of example store content.<br />
<br />
So while that progress bar is going, this is the Pinapple store that I built for <br />
9'<br />
Dua Drupal. And as you can see it looks strikingly similar to store.apple.com And the lions' share of the work in this web site was actually (- oh it's not adaptive apparently. It wasn't disigned for a xxxx display -)<br />
So the lion's share of work in this site was <i>theming</i>. So I spent about 40 hours building this website. Maybe five of those was throwing the <i>Drupal</i> site and <i>Commerce</i> and <i>Views</i> together. The other 35 hours would have been making it look like apple.com. And learning some tricks along the way. So if you're curious about those tricks feel free to find me afterwards but I'm not a great theme writer. I did put my "themer" sticker on [for the conference seminars] but I'm very much amateur. This is my first theme ever. So I'm guessing that some of you could do this much faster than I did. <br />
<br />
So I'm interested in that we're going to sell just regular merchandise. So we have just a regular <i>product page</i>. We do have some of those on this website. And you can go to the piPhone, and then click-over to select our piPhone, <br />
10'<br />
- not responsive. Looks great on 1074 x 758px. And Apple has these sort of splash pages that then redirect to their actual product pages. And this would be - once it loads - just a basic <i>product page </i>to select some <i>attribute</i> of the piPhone, whether it is your colour, or your hard disc size. As you select the colour you will see the image update. This is just core <i>Commerce</i> functionality using the new <i>Ajax</i> framework in <i>Drupal 7</i>. The price will also update on the screens - that's way down here in the corner! But if I upgrade my hard drive to 64GB the price is going to shoot-up and I am going to add that to my card. So we'll demonstrate how I built this using the different sizes of the jerseys that we're going to be selling. <br />
<br />
And I also said that we can do customisable products. With <i>Drupal Commerce</i> it's quite easy to take an <i>add to cart form</i> and expose additional <i>fields</i> that must be filled out. [screen shows buttons and titles overlapping on big scale] Wow that looks awsome! In the add to cart form.<br />
11<br />
So what we have here: I'm interested in that <i>Drupal Commerce</i> does not force a particular type of product display on you. So we had in the one instance the iPhone where we had all the different options and you select them and it's one <i>add to cart form</i> . For the iPods I actually had a separate product page for each model which is what Apple does for some reason, and now this is just a <i>View</i> of my actual product display nodes. So I have a separate <i>node</i> for each of my ipod models, and this is just a <i>view</i> that's displayed as a <i>grid</i>, with some custom theming on the links and what-not. <br />
<br />
So you pick your model and then once you go there you actually have to customise your ipod. So this is where you do things like specify your custom name of custom number or whatever. <br />
<br />
So this is done by attaching <i>fields</i> to the <i>line item</i> that's actually going to be added to my <i>shopping cart</i> whenever this product is added to my cart. So I'll demonstrate how I set that up. And then I won't bother going to checkout because I'm sure it looks horrible and it costs $600 and because Commerce Kickstart has done installing.<br />
<br />
So has anybody here not used an installation profile before? <br />
12<br />
A few haven't. It's kind of like getting more and more privelidged inside of <i>Drupal</i> to the point where you can include not just <i>module</i> installation but additional steps. So you can install and configure <i>themes</i> during the installation process, and I guess there are probably some other things you can do with them but those are the main things you can do with them. And then <i>Drupal.org</i> itself will let you include a .make file with your installation profile so it can actually bundle everything into one tarball for you including <i>Drupal Core</i>. So this is the way that people will begin making distributions of Drupal. Is by taking an installation profile, all the <i>modules</i> and <i>custom theme</i> and basically creating a custom experience for a particular business model or type of product. Package it up into one discreet <i>tarball</i> that somobody that is really new to Drupal - doesn't know how to click through everything and set it up - they can go and grab and start selling immediately. <br />
<br />
And so one of the best examples that I've seen so far for Drupal Commerce is<br />
13<br />
<i>Open Deals App</i>. It's just <a href="http://opendealsapp.com/">Opendealsapp.com</a>. And they've actually taken <i>Groupon</i> and cloned it into <i>Drupal</i> using <i>Drupal Commerce</i> with their kind of straight-on rip-off <i>Groupon</i> theme, and you just download their app and you have a <i>Drupal Groupon</i> kind of site that you can start to customise and quickly deploy for your clients. This is actually a fairly common feature request in our queue at least - I don't know how many of you guys get those requests. Honestly if I got a request like that; if somebody asked them to build a <i>Groupon</i> clone I'd just say go use <i>Groupon</i>, but maybe you have a newspaper or a local organisation wants you to build something like this so you can use <i>Opendealsapp</i> as your launch point.<br />
<br />
And the idea here is you're trying to give or we're just trying to give site builders and new users just a very basic starting point to customise the <i>Groupon</i> site so you don't have to do the same stuff over and over again for every <i>Drupal</i> site you're building. <br />
<br />
Now the same holds true for <i>Commerce</i>: we have <i>Commerce Kickstart</i> which is designed to get you up and running with just the core Commerce modules as quick as possible<br />
14<br />
Right now we don't even have a custom theme. I'm just using <i>Bartek</i>. I am using the Admin menu with the <i>Admin Menu toolbar</i> that it comes with, so it makes it look like the core toolbar but it's not really. I should probably disable that for the purposes of this demonstration. I'm just going to go back to the core - you know I'm scrared to go back to this because I'd have to go back to this sort of five times...<br />
<br />
Alright so we have our <i>Kickstart</i> site. The project was first we were going to start off selling autographed merchandise. <br />
<br />
So as you can see <i>Commerce Kickstart</i> did start off creating three basic products for me, numbered one two three with nodes displaying them. What you see here is actually a node that's set-up by commerce <i>Kickstart</i>. It's a <i>node type</i> called <i>Product Display</i>. This node type has a <i>product reference field</i> on it. So the actual product data if I were going to edit this node, you're not going to find a <i>product price</i> or <i>SKU</i> field or anything. What you have instead is this product reference field, where by putting in the <i>SKU</i>, this field associates product three with this particular node. If you're familiar with the way that fields work either in <i>[Drupal] six</i> or in <i>[Drupal] seven</i>, you have a widget where you specify how does this field's data get entered, then you have a display formatter that detirmines how that data, once it's attached to this node, is going to be displayed in different view modes. So: how will that product reference field be displayed in a teasier versus a full node. And one of the display formatters that comes with <i>Commerce</i> is an <i>add-to-cart-form display formatter</i>. So the way this <i>add to cart form</i> shows up here in this node is that this node is associated with product three: the display formatter says <br />
"hey! make me an add to cart form for product three". And it throws it in here.<br />
<br />
So what I can do is on, I guess, the product list side , if we go to <i>Store Menu</i>; I have a view of products, I have products one two and three, so lets get started and edit product three and lets make this into just <br />
16'<br />
an autographed football. So I think I have a football autographed by <i>Troy Akeman</i>. [types TROY-AKEMAN into the <i>SKU</i> field of the <i>edit view</i> for product three] I can type quicker with two hands. [puts microphone on stand] holds it here.... Right: so we have a <i>Troy Akeman</i> football [types into teh <i>Title</i> field] I have an image here. By the way these image fields have been set-up for us by <i>Drupal Commerce</i> - you don't have to use that but most people when they're trying to test-out an ecommerce application they want to find that so we put them in there. And the image field is actually attached to my product.<br />
16'39"<br />
You can either attach the <i>images</i> to the <i>product</i> itself or the <i>node</i> that's displaying the <i>product</i>. It's really kind of up to you and the products that you're selling. In this case it probably wouldn't matter. I could have just thrown this <i>image</i> field on the node itself because I'm only going to have one image, or at least one set of images for the football. There aren't multiple different footballs that I'm selling. But imagine if I had different colours <br />
17'<br />
and different styles of football. The brown, or the blue and white, or the <i>Dallas Cowboys</i> celebratory whatever football, you know maybe I would have an option to choose what colour football I want , and so I would want to have a different image appear based on that. So like I showed you with the pinApple store, as I chose a black versus a white piPad or piPhone, I mean it was actually changing the image on the page, because it was pulling that data straight from the <i>product</i> that's actually <i>selected</i> on the form. <br />
17'27" [long pause for question] Yes agreed. Yes it's very impractical huh. Yes: no no.<br />
17'53" Just so everbody heard. <br />
<br />
<b>The feedback here was that the architecture makes sense</b>. Like we know that we need like a discreet set of product data [18] that exists somewhere, that isn't tied to any particular disciplin. Like you might have multiple ways of displaying the product; multiple languages, and you might want to keep each language display associated with one discreet set of product data. <br />
<br />
But for just the casual store owner. When they come and see this thing, like [they ask] "Wait: why am I going to adminsiter my product data in one place and then manage how its connected to stuff in another place?"<br />
<br />
And it is frankly, that we expected and anticipated that this would be the main negative feedback for <i>Drupal Commerce,</i> for [version] 1.0 and it's going to lead into infinity, so you've got to say, look, we can get the archetecture right and then lets throw usability modules on top of it that sort of give us a more expected workflow.<br />
<br />
And so what you have is there's a module called the <i>Product Display Manager </i>that lets you manage your display nodes from the back end.<br />
<br />
And then what I'm working on is called the <i>Inline Product Form Module</i> that can...<br />
Instead of having two separate places [to edit product display and product data],<br />
you would just edit the <i>node</i> and on your <i>node form</i> you'd have the <i>product </i>added to that as well. I think that's what people are expecting and I think it's what you'd expect.<br />
19<br />
And so the goal was to get [version] 1.0 out-the-door, and see these other modules, sort of get developed that can address these usability concerns.<br />
<br />
Some people have also taken to gluing these things together using <i>Rules</i>. And so they've made a <i>Rule Set</i> that whenever you create a new product node it would create a new product in the back end. And associate that with this product reference field that they hid from their users. I'm not a huge fan of that approach because it is tying quite a bit of your logic into <i>Rules</i>, that doesn't really need to be [tied-in]. So my hopes are really set on the <i>Inline Product Form Module</i>. I think that's probably the major-use case for just setting-up a store. Any other feedback?<br />
19'43"<br />
Any other feedback or questions about architecture or whatever?<br />
The question was "Is there a sandbox for that?"...[not transcribed as temporary. By the way "updation" is a good word, newly invented below]<br />
20'<br />
If you go to my user page, I'm <a href="https://drupal.org/user/49344">https://drupal.org/user/49344</a>. You can get the links to my sandbox from there, and I'll get it promoted as soon as it's ready. Right now - I don't want to get off the rabit trail too much. But I have a lot of fun trying to figure out how to handle the creation, updation, and deletion of entities inside of another entitie's form, without committing all those changes before the main entity's form is submitted. So my module handles that but it doesn't actually have a <i>product display node</i>. So it's just ready for it, but I haven't had time to get it done. But the other stuff are done . The <i>product display manager</i> is available. The <i>Rule sets</i> are available niches [specialised options]. And then there's also a module that I was going to get to in a minute but now I've mentioned the others<br />
20'44"<br />
There's the <i>bulk product creation module.</i> That lists multiple options of products all at once. The module is [called] "commerce_bpc". So that's throw-up like all six different sizes and colour combinations instead of one product at a time. And you know it will get to that.<br />
21'<br />
So we do have our one product here - the <i>Troy Aitken</i> Football that's good to go. We can sell that. I've just added it to my shopping cart. I can go to checkout now and I can purchase this football. Let's talk about the jerseys. Because the jerseys are going to have multiple sizes. I'm going to have my small medium large and extra large jersey. And so the way I want to accomodate that is by first of all creating a new product type, because I am going to have to add an attribute field to it. I think that if you've done ecommerce before you're familiar with product attributes? These are the kinds of things that are basically user select-able options. So whenever they go to add to the cart , you have these groups of the different sizes or the different colours or wattages or whatever it is, you know, that you're selling (between apparrel or equipment or whatever) they can choose on the add to cart form the attribute that matches what they want. <br />
<br />
Let me go to my product types here. It's kind of hidden here. Sorry about that. But I'm going to go to my <i>product types</i> tab and add a <i>product type</i>. <br />
22'<br />
The default one: well the default one that you have here [is called] product. It may be the only sort of product that you need. If you are only selling one sort of product on the site you can just go ahead and add whatever user fields you need to that; use it, and if you don't want it at all you can just delete it and create your own product types. It's really just there for new users to use, or for you to use if you only need to use one generic product type.<br />
<br />
In our case we're going to add a jersey product type though. And I'm going to [presses a button marked save and add fields next to save product type and cancel under description and explanation or submission guidelines] save and add fields. And on the jersey I'm going to add a size [clicks on add new field button and fills in field marked label] size [fills-in field marked field_] size. [selects a drop down marked type of data to store an selects list]. This is going to be a list text because, you know, I am going to have a discrete number of options available for this. [moves to the last drop down on the line called select list] And this field - I'm just going to leave it as select list. <br />
<br />
[moves the line of data up the screen a little by clicking and draggint an x-shaped anchor]<br />
[scrolls to an allowed values list which is the heading over a large blank box above some text saying "the possible values this field can contain"]<br />
Right, now for my allowed values I'm just going to do my <br />
S/Small<br />
M/Medium<br />
L/Large<br />
XL/Extra Large There we go<br />
23'<br />
[presses save] We also have as fields attached to products we have our own custom set of setting here. So these are: this whole set of <i>fields</i> here is called <i>Attribute Field Settings</i>. And whenever I'm adding a field to a product type I can choose to have that field function on add to cart buttons as an attribute. You don't have to expose it if you don't want it to be [exposed]. But in our case I do want this <i>size field</i> to be available on <i>add to cart forms</i> as a <i>selectable option</i>. And then I can choose whether I want it to be a <i>select list</i> or <i>radio buttons</i>. I'll go ahead and leave it as <i>select list</i> but for <i>theming</i> purposes you may want it to show up as <i>radio buttons</i>. And one example I threw-up onto this site before the session is that there is a cosmetics site that is selling lipstick. They want, for each of their options, a colour-splash to show up. Instead of the name of the colour they want people to a actually click on the colour that they want to purchase. And so they would use <i>radio buttons</i>. And then <i>theme</i> the <i>radio buttons</i> to use their colour swatch. And then like hide the actual <i>radio button</i> itself. And it all functions great.<br />
24'<br />
And the way they did that was that instead of using like a <i>list text field</i>, they used a <i>taxonomy term reference field</i>, and they put in their different colour options as<i> taxonomy terms</i>, and because terms are now <i>entities</i> in <i>Drupal 7</i>, they can add an <i>image field</i> to them. So they would put in the name of the colour, they would attach the <i>image</i> to that term, then use that as their <i>attribute</i> on the <i>add to cart form</i>, and then just swap-in the actual colour swatch for the <i>name of the taxonomy term</i>. It worked great! It was great to see that happen. Nobody has made a generic module out of that yet, but in a situation where you need to do that, just know that there are one or two issues [like this] in the cue that are go through the whole process of show example code, and hopefully we'll get that boiled down into an actual helpful <i>module</i> or a <i>tutorial</i> or something. <br />
24'47"<br />
Here we go. I've just exposed - or: I've just added a <i>field</i> to my custom <i>product type</i> that will be exposed to the <i>add to cart form</i> . Let's just create a jersey. Let's go ahead and start off with our <br />
[SKU filed of] TONY_ROMO_S. And we'll do small. And as I mentioned, normally we wouldn't have to set here and type every single one of your different options. <br />
[Title field of]Tony Roo Jersey, Small. I didn't have one of the most recent version of the <i>bulk product creation module </i>available, so I'm just going to go ahead and type a couple of them: I won't do them all.<br />
[SIZE field: Small S]<br />
And these things go for like rediculousness or something - like $80 or $70? And it's <i>Tony Romo</i>. So it's like: $65. I know, honestly I don't have much room to speak because I'm a Colts [sports team] fan. I don't have any room to speak because I'm a Colts fan. [this is the sort of thing you say to fit-in in Texas]. They're leading right now? Oh they're playing the Redskins [team]. OK, I was totally a guess but they're playing the Redskins. I reckoned they would be leading OK. So I'm just going to do two so I don't take a whole lot of time filling in all these different options. But I now have two different <br />
26'<br />
Jerseys available. I'm going to go to the front end now and create a new product display. I'm going to go through content [on the bar at the to of the admin screen] to node content [drops down]. You'll see that I have my new node type here. So lets add a new one. This will be our Tony Romo jersey. And I'm going to put the size and the title. And instead what you can see is if you enter the SKU it does the auto-complete so I'm going to choose my small. And medium in Tony Romo Jerseys. And when I click save and view the node, I should now have a select list. Oh and I forgot to upload the images. Oh well. We have a few things going-on here. One thing we're going to have to change. But first of all you can see that my attribute field is showing up here for me to select something that I can add to the cart. And the way that this works is that the add to cart form looks at all the products that are set to display here, and it says "Hey! These are all the same type. So these should have all the same fields on them. So instead of showing a select list - <br />
27'<br />
instead of having just one select list that said sort of Tony Romo Jersey Small; Tony Romo Jersey Medium, it know that both of these products have a size field on them, and so it can extract from that the name of the field, and the options available, and lets you actually chose them from a select list. And it can do this for any number of attribute fields. So if you were doing this for size and colour and they were dependant, so you only had small medium and large available in red but you had small medium large and extra large available in blue, it would only show valid product combinations. It uses Drupal 7's sort of Ajax stuff to sort of select the appropriate one as you change options on the form. And then behind the scenes it knows exactly which product ID it is referencing,. So when I change this to medium there's a hidden product field or whatever. So I think the product availability was 3. It changes it to 4. And if those products had different prices, then it would re-render that [price] field. So actually I reckon it's good that [inaudible] because we can see that this [size] has been re-rendered, so it says medium instead of small. I call it product field injection. So evey time you have a product reference field, and its displaying in an add to cart form, whenever that add to cart form changes, you can tell Drupal Commerce to update any visible modules from that product on the node, so this node, whenever its content array was being rendered or whatever. I'll see if we can go to development and show you. Maybe not. I haven't looked before. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe it's not worth looking. Right: it's not worth looking right now. But any time a node or a user or a taxonomy term or any kind of entity that has a product reference field on it is rendered, the product reference field module will also say "Hey! Do any fields from the product itself also need to rendered into this output?" And that lets you show on the page any field from the product <br />
28'<br />
or any attribute of it like the title of the product or the SKU. And so all that stuff is governed by the fields when you attach them to your product and by the display node. So it's honestly this is still like that this is a confusing thing because you have like two different field interfaces [UIs]. You have the field_ui for the node type and the field_ui for the product type. And knowing where to go to change a particular type of display or a particular action can be confusing. So I won't belabour it too much other than to hop-in real quick and disable the size field because you [programmer] don't really need it because I [shop customer] know which size it is because I'm selecting that in the add to cart form.<br />
<br />
And so if I go to my content types [from admin menu, drops down from "content"] Oh, lets try the next one that's "structure> content types> product display" I'm going to go-manage my display. You can see in here all the fields that are coming from the product. So the product image, the product price, product is the actual product reference field that shows-up as the add to cart form.<br />
30'<br />
And if you get-on from there you can see the product size field. I don't want it visible so I'm just going to mark it hidden. You know if I wanted to I could show the SKU, I could show the title. Those things are hidden by default. And then I need to do that for my other view node as well. So for Teaser we'll go in here and hide size. <br />
30'30"<br />
Yes: the question was actually how is the reference handled for prouduct data from like a node or a user or whatever? And it's actually a custom product reference field. It pre-dates both the relatation and the reference and everything else. Maybe for [version] 2.X we're looking at depending on entity reference or something similar, but right now it's just a product reference field. The scheme has just one database column. That's product id. And then from that product ID we create the add to cart form or a list of skus or titles or whatever else. Um Yes. So there we go. Yes. Follow-up question over here: red shirt.<br />
31'<br />
So the question was: What exactly is happening with the image field?<br />
And you see I actually forgot to attach an image field to my custom product type here. So lets go ahead and do that just so I can demonstrate. Will the image be spoft[?] in as well? And the answer is Yes. As long as the image is attached to your product type then any field, again, that is coming from the product , if it is visible on the page will be re-rendered whenever that default button on the add to cart form is changed. <br />
<br />
So if I go to image and add - I'll just make sure I have an image field - and then if I go edit my jersey products. I'll just use two different jerseys: one that's blue and one that's white for obviisity. There. We have Jaon Mitten. And we do have a Tony Romo I think. Yes there we go. Alright. So if I come back to the product display that has the two different products referenced on it, we'll see the small. The jersey looks really big. And if we change to medium, the jersey looks even bigger. So it's re-rendered as well.<br />
33'<br />
So again this is just a demonstration of what elements Drupal Commerce lets you bring to the table to let you build your product displays. If you get Drupal Commerce out of the box; if you just grab Commerrce from Drupalcommerce.org/projects/commerce. It isn't going to set-up product node types, it isn't going to set-up product types for you. This stuff is happening because we are using Commerce Kickstart. And the idea once again is that we did not want to make any assumptions about what kind of products you are selling. But we do get a lot of tools to build very dynamic add to cart forms. In Ubercart you had to use two or three different modules to get images showing-up, or to produce option images. You couldn't really render fields from your product data into the node. You just couldn't do this. And now we can because of fields and because of entities and because of, specially, the new ajax framework baked-in to the forms api. <br />
<br />
Lets move-on to a cusomisable jersey. We're going to go to a Store>add a product. Oh - you know: just for the sake of time I'm going to re-use my basic product type, and just show this.<br />
admin/commerce/products<br />
34'<br />
So not only can we add fields to our product types in our add to cart form. We can add line item types and have those show up on the add to cart form. So let me come over here to Store>configuration>line items. And you''ll see that I have one product line item type. And the way that the cart works and the way that the orders work in Drupal Commerce is that when you ad something to the cart, a product line item is created for it , and attached to an order. So as soon as somebody clicks add-to-cart they have a full order object. There is (like) no pseudo-cart order object thing. It is like a full order with revisions that keeps track of additions, deletions; it saves what ever data you try to add on the checkout form as soon as possible, so you're not loosing a lot of that valuable marketing data that we weren't tracking before. <br />
34'50"<br />
And so a line item is anything on the order that feeds into the price. It could be your products, or, once I install the shipping module, it could be a shipping line item. For certain kinds of discounts it could be a discount line item. Also for those fields - you can add fields to them and expose them to the add to cart form. So that before somebody submits add to cart they actually specify additional data to store with that product line item in the order. <br />
<br />
I don't want to use my one basic product type and add fields to that, because then every time I add products to my web site they going to have the customisation options. It doesn't make sense to ask for somebody's last name to customise a football - their autographed football. So I want to use a different product line item type from my customisable stuff versus my basic products. I have a module that's sort of in the works. I need to finish it up (I'll install some other stuff as we go). I have a module called customisable products - if I can find it! - oh there's the inline product form module - that will let me create additional product line item types for use with different types of customisation. And other areas you might need this would be things like a donation form where you want someone to specify a custom donation amount. And use that amount they specify as the sort of unit price of that line item in the shopping cart. If you go to commerceguys.com there's a great tutorial by Randy Fey that demonstrates that right now. You might also use it for event registrations where the product is a different level of event registration, and then the different fields they have to fill-in our their name, attendee name if they're registering other people, email address, company name, or whatever else. You know - "name on the badge" versus "name on the form". <br />
<br />
And so there are many different use cases for creating custom product line item types. We originally developed it for one of our clients that was selling customisable T shirts and lighters and whatever else. They needed to store these design tags with their line item but they had other products that didn't need that stuff. And so we needed multiple types of line items that would function as products in the cart. <br />
37'<br />
And you see now I have installed my shipping module so you see I have my shipping line item type. I've also installed customisable products , so I have this new "add a customisable product" link that I can use to add a customisable product line item type. Well we'll just go ahead and use custom jersey because it's available. Save that line item type. And now I have two types of product line item. So that means that when somebody clicks add-to-cart , we can use either one of these things. The customer jersey line item type or just the basic product line item type. Lets go ahead and edit this one because I am going to go and add my text field. This is for custom jerseys to capture the [add a text field] custom name. And we'll make this just a basic text field. And save. Alright So: we've got the next link [button marked "save product fields"] and so just like with the product fields we had that additional field set where you had your add to cart form settings with fields attached to line items. <br />
38'<br />
You're also going to have add-to-cart form settings. And this one is just a single check box that says "include this field on Add to Cart forms for buy items of this type." So I am going to go ahead and save this and then go and view our products. Lets go back to our Troy Aikman Football. And if you look at this add-to-cart form you will notice that there is no - you know - no name field visible. We can add this to the cart. It doesn't ask me for my name even though I made that a required field. And the reason being: this add to cart form is using the basic product line item type. It does not have any additional fields associated with it.<br />
<br />
Let's go an refocus on Product Two. Product two is - let's see - our custom jerseys. Let's go ahead and add a product. Make this a jersey. And this is our custom jersey. Let's write that (SKU) down again. And this is a small jersey. And this is very expensive. Click image. Choose a file. Choose "custom". Right. Now I've got a product now that I want to use my custom jerseys. Now what I want to do is figure out how I want to get this product associated with the different product line item type. Usually what you do is add another separate type of product display. One product display is for my regular product line items. The other one is going to be for my custom product line items. The reason for that is the setting that lets you specify which product line item you want to use is tied to this add to cart form. And this add to cart form is coming from a display formatter. So you have to have a separate node type to have a different set of display format settings. I know this is kind of confusing. Lets go ahead and add this. A new content type called a custom product display node. We're going to add fields to it. In this case just a single product reference field. <br />
40'<br />
Oh and here's the checkbox here underneath "required field" which directs you to "include some reference products". Again there are so many things that we are injecting into the field forms that I know that all of this is going to fly right over your head until you use it, but at least you are aware that this is how <i>Commerce </i>works. It is working through the existing <i>field system</i>. And then you pull all these <i>Commerce</i> pieces together. But if I go to look at my display, I have my <i>product field</i> here. Let's go ahead and hide its label. And it is displayed as an add to cart form. You scroll over here to the right. This is new for Drupal 7 so if you haven't yet used Drupal 7 you don't know about this, but you can have settings for any sort of display formatter now. And in this case the settings for the add to cart form are: should it have a quantity of Widget? Let people say they want 1, 2, 3 of these at once? What should the default quantity be? Should like items be added to the same product that's added to the same cart? Should it show up as a separate line item or should it just increment the quantity of the existing line item? And then the very last one is the add to cart line item type. That's set to Product because that's just the default. Lets go ahead and edit this. Change it from using Product to Custom Jersey. So when I hit update. I go create products of this node type. You'll see the add to cart form with the little name text field. Lets go add one. Add content. Custom product display. <br />
<br />
Its making me nervous having that thing next to the computer - my last mac was trashed by electronics falling on the laptop.<br />
<br />
I'm not going to go through the full setup here because it's taking a lot more time than I anticipated. But you see now that the add to cart form has a custom text field that I didn't have to specify. And this data, because it's just field data. It's not like we're attaching it to an array and then serialising this data and adding it to the product in the cart. That's what Ubercart does with its attributes. Instead this is field data that can be attached to the line item of the product in the cart. You can get to this data using Views; you can get ot this data using Rules. Whatever you need. So if I was usingthis system for event registration, I could build a massive list of all the people registered for my event by just producing a View of this particular Field. And in this case this field maybe shows the order number that that came from, and whatever else you need to do with it. And according to Randy's tutorial on donations (you know: custom donation products), because this is field data: Rules has access to it. And with Drupal Commerce you can add product pricing rules, that will take the price and alter the price of the product before its added to the cart based on whatever parameters you need. So that could be: you just look at the field like the custom price that somebody specifies as their donation amount would be the price of that product added to the cart.<br />
<br />
The question at the back.<br />
43'23"<br />
The question was pertaining to custom pricing and discounting and what-not.<br />
What Drupal Commerce does is that it runs every custom-pricing rule through a single event that it calls "calculating the sell-price of a product". And so this is all done through Rules right now. There are reasons for it that I can explain afterwards. But you have under your Configuration Menu a product-pricing-rules-item, and that lets you set-up your discounts, sales-tax, fees, price lists, currency conversion: whatever, all using Rules. In this case, lets go ahead and just make this a "half off day: half off everything". Save. [curser hovers over "add an action" link] And what I am going to do is add an action to this, called "multiply the unit price of a line item". Because whenever you calculate the sale price of a product, it's done through a pseudo-line item. So when Commerce is about to display a product price, what it asks is "what would the price of this product be, if it were in your shopping cart, right now". So it creates a line item that doesn't save that would reference your order and reference the product, and it passes it through Rules so that anything can operate on that to change the price, add tax, whether it's VAT or sales tax or whatever, and then spit that final price out as your purchase price for the product. <br />
<br />
So we're going to thumb-through the line items. I am selecting a "line item action". That's going to multiply the unit action called "multiply the unit price by some amount". In my case I'm going to multiply it by 0.5. And I am going to say that this should show-up on the checkout form as a discount. And I'll choose how that should be rounded, if at all. And now if I go back and look at my product page. I had some footballs in my cart. They automatically got updated to be ½-off, so that's $30 instead of $60 (they'd be cheaper if americans didn't bother with leather, silly arses) and notice that whatever is going to be in your shopping cart is always going to show the most recent price. That's called the "shopping cart refresh". So somebody won't have stale data in their cart if they come back a month later and prices have changed: it's always going to be updated. If you go to checkout: you can actually see that this will show-up on my checkout form as my half-off discount. So all that stuff is tied together and done through Rules.<br />
<br />
The same is true for taxes so if I go back to store>configeration>taxes , lets add a Texas sales tax. I think it's 6.25% is that right? 8.25% - oh it's changed. Move to Kentucky it's cheaper [the UK's NHS service runs for only 10% of GDP so although taxes are higher it's cheap too]. And now that I have that tax on there, of course, go-up, and it's an error! This always happens, doesn't it, on tech-demos. OK. It sill still show-up here. I'm going to have to debug that later. I haven't fully tested everything against the latest version of entity api apparently, but you can see that I have my sales tax, which if I am not mistaken is going to come-up at a discounted price but I can't do the Math that quick. So here we have my Texas sales tax. Total $34.95. And all this stuff is coming from a price field attached to the order and it just shows the breakdown. We have what we call "price components" so every price, whether it is a price on a line item or a unit price, or a product sell price, or or the order in total price or the order itself. All these prices have in themselves a change-log of how that price got to where it was. What pieces went-in to making this-price this-price. That includes the base price of the products, discount that came off it, the sales tax that was added, and you can use that to build custom price displays to run your reports on how much tax was collected or whatever else.<br />
<br />
Question up front?<br />
The qustion was: <b>Can we have a tax by product?</b> [47.08]<br />
Yes. You just use Rules to change the conditions for the applicatbility of that tax. <br />
So if I went to my store menu again (and I have kind of run-out of time or I would have cruised-through a lot of this stuff) if I go to my taxes menu [bottom item] you can see my tax rates. You can see there is this ambiguous operations link here [right hand side] which is called "configured component" and in Rules-speak what that is is a kind [?] subtlety that detirmines whether this tax should apply to something. So if I go in there, you'll see the full Rules user interface where you can add conditions that detirmine whether this particular tax should be applied to the line item. So I can make this detirmined by some atrribute of the product itself: maybe food items aren't taxed and jerseys are. I can make that detirmined by the shipping or billing address of the customer. Most places it's detirmined by where you're shipping it to. So I would want to go and check the shipping address and make sure that it was Texas before applying the Texas sales tax. So that, again, is all done through Rules. And this all comes through the product pricing system. So product pricing rules is your main point for adding discounts, and taxes, swapping-in prices and custom prices, and price-lists, and everything else.<br />
<br />
I can't remember the other objective I set myself for showing this site. I was going to show discount shipping. I don't have time to go through this and build it. So just real quickly I can show you on realmilkcheese.com. Actually this is my first ever personal e-commerce web site. And it actually is responsive so lets see if it works for us right here. The pressure's on [typing and waiting]. Realmilkcheese.com is just a very rushed-out website selling an Amish farmer's cheese. So it's selling raw milk goods, it's kind of yummy, but it's kind of expensive. So what we're trying to do is simplify bulk purchasing. If customers buy $100 of more of his cheese they can get free shipping. What I did was I used the shipping module and the flat rate module . This is Shipping [module version] 2.X. If you are about to use a commerce site use the 2.X branch not the 1.X. And then another module called Flat Rate. Also confusingly, this is not the Shipping Flat Rate Module; just the Flat Rate Module. I'll have that all cleaned-up on the shipping project page soon. So what we did was use the Shipping Module and the Flat Rate Module to - oh! security updates! Great! I've just gone and shown everybody that I have an insecure website! I have my Flat Rate Shipping Method and if you look at the services that I have defined for Flat Rate, I have a "Standard" and a "Free" shipping method. So my "Standard" is 16 bucks or something; free is going to be $Zero. Free is only going to be available for orders that total over $100. So that's easy enough to do. <br />
<br />
Just like with Taxes you have a Configure Component link; you have it here for shipping as well. So I just go in here and add a simple Condition. That evaluates, or compares against the order total: "Is it greater than $99.99?" (These comparisons are done in the minor unit of the currency so comparisons are done in pennies or cents or whatever else, so just remember that when you are setting-up your pricing rules). In this case the order is over $99.99. The free shipping should show-up. If it's under $99.99, then standard shipping should show-up. The problem that I ran into was "What if someone selects Standard Shipping and that bumps-up the total to over $100? - then suddenly free shipping becomes available". What we had to do was we added some conditions into the shipping module itself that lets you also specify: "Is the order total over $100 in itself, and the order doesn't have shipping applied to it?". So if you're setting-up rules for shipping, just remember that you have to have that exlusion, because someone could go forward and checkout, save their order, and then come-back and choose the free option and go for it. You don't want that to happen. So you have got to use both things: the data comparison, and also the check that they don't already have shipping applied to their order.<br />
<br />
That's how we set-up free shipping. With the Flat Rate module it's very simple to add just as many flat rates as you need. Then with the Shipping Rates again once the base rate has been calculated, coming from that flat rate, you also run that through Rules again, to manipulate the rate further. So if you do weight-based shipping where it's $5 + $3/pound [of weight]. You do the same thing by setting-up a flat rate for $5, and then you use rules to add a conditional $ to it per pound or $3 per pound. There's a lot of stuff you can do using Rules and using the Fields about those Rules that we have set-up [pointing at a part of an admin screen under config>workflow>rules>components - worth looking at at full screen mode] headed "Conditions" and then boxes for "ELEMENTS", "OPERATIONS", repeated under another heading of "Actions".<br />
<br />
And we are out of time here and I regret running out of time and I regret that we haven't really cracked the demo. If you have any questions, I'll stand out in the hallway and feel free to come and bug me with them<br />
you're welcome to bug me with them about Drupal Commerce. Thanks for paying attention and for bearing with me, and I'll see you guys next time.<br />
<br />
<br />
[answers another question - Oh yes? What's that? Sure, Sure]<br />
<br />
Two things.<br />
<ol>
<li>There's real milk cheese here if you want it, right up here. Actually I have half a brick of smoked pepper and applejack so if you want some of that come and ask me. </li>
<li>We're doing a full three million dollar training down in Florida next month .... go to ctraining.commerce on Drupal for that. There are also (paid for) videos on Lynda.com and (paid for) videos on Drupalise.me so there are all sorts of resources out there to teach you how to use Drupal Commerce. [+ <a href="https://www.ostraining.com/blog/drupal/">https://www.ostraining.com/blog/drupal/</a> for non-commerce text instructions]</li>
</ol>
Alright. Thanks a lot.<br />
<br />
Transcription: translators see this footnote<br />
Some of the jargon is italicised, more or less at random.<br />
Speaking style is Germanic English with maximum
hyphenated-together-words.<br />
Sentences are unstructured and meaning
depends on context a lot.<br />
Some apologetic linking words like so and and
are added to the starts of sentences. I have taken a few of them off again in transcription. Translaters will have trouble.<br />
<br /></div>
<hr />
Transcribed videos about Drupal 7 and Ubercart 3 which are meant to provide a quick way of writing an ecommerce site: -
[Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module]
[Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog]
[Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states]
[Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme]<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-73382802259442640902011-12-14T16:30:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:24:58.196+01:00<head> <link rel="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/12/something-is-not-quite-right.html"> </head> <br />
<div id="branding"> <h1 class="page-title"><span style="font-size: small;">Something is not quite right.</span></h1><h1 class="page-title"><span style="font-size: small;"><b>I </b>know that options two and three on my last post overlap; I do not know a nifty way to make a desktop installation turn into a server-hosted one without the use of file transfer with a program like Filezilla.</span></h1><h1 class="page-title"><span style="font-size: small;">Drupal being Drupal, there is also a question of where to put certain modules which are packed in an installation but may be better put in a sites/all/modules/ folder (not the "modules" folder: that would be too easy). Looking at the error message below, there is probably still more to learn.</span> </h1><h1 class="page-title"><hr ALIGN="LEFT"></h1><h1 class="page-title">Requirements problem</h1></div><div id="page"><div class="sidebar" id="sidebar-first"> <h2 class="element-invisible"></h2><h2 class="element-invisible">Installation tasks</h2><ol class="task-list"><li class="done">Choose profile<span class="element-invisible">(done)</span></li>
<li class="done">Choose language<span class="element-invisible">(done)</span></li>
<li class="active">Verify requirements<span class="element-invisible">(active)</span></li>
<li>Set up database</li>
<li>Install profile</li>
<li>Configure site</li>
<li>Example store</li>
<li>Finished</li>
</ol></div><div class="clearfix" id="content"> <div id="console"><div class="messages error"> <h2 class="element-invisible">Error message</h2><ul><li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/addressfield) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/commerce) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/ctools) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/entity) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/rules) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(./profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/views) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/addressfield) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/commerce) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/ctools) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/entity) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/rules) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/views) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/addressfield) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/commerce) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/ctools) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/entity) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/rules) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/views) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/addressfield) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/commerce) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/ctools) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/entity) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/rules) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
<li><em class="placeholder">Warning</em>: opendir(profiles/commerce_kickstart/modules/views) [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.opendir">function.opendir</a>]: failed to open dir: No error in <em class="placeholder">file_scan_directory()</em> (line <em class="placeholder">2026</em> of <em class="placeholder">C:\e\veganline\includes\file.inc</em>).</li>
</ul></div></div><table class="system-status-report"><tbody>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">Web server</td><td class="status-value">Apache/2.2.17 (Win32) PHP/5.2.17</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">PHP</td><td class="status-value">5.2.17</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">PHP register globals</td><td class="status-value">Disabled</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">PHP extensions</td><td class="status-value">Enabled</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">Database support</td><td class="status-value">Enabled</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">PHP memory limit</td><td class="status-value">128M</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">File system</td><td class="status-value">Writable (<em>public</em> download method)</td></tr>
<tr class="ok"><td class="status-icon"><div title="OK"><span class="element-invisible">OK</span></div></td><td class="status-title">Unicode library</td><td class="status-value">PHP Mbstring Extension</td></tr>
<tr class="error merge-down"><td class="status-icon"><div title="Error"><span class="element-invisible">Error</span></div></td><td class="status-title">Required modules</td><td class="status-value">Required modules not found.</td></tr>
<tr class="error merge-up"><td class="status-description" colspan="3">The following modules are required but were not found. Move them into the appropriate modules subdirectory, such as <em>sites/all/modules</em>. Missing modules: <span class="admin-missing">Addressfield</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Ctools</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Entity</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Entity_token</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Rules</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Rules_admin</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Views</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Views_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_cart</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_checkout</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_customer</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_customer_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_line_item</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_line_item_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_order</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_order_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_payment</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_payment_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_payment_example</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_price</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_product</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_product_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_product_pricing</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_product_pricing_ui</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_product_reference</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_tax</span>, <span class="admin-missing">Commerce_tax_ui</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table>Check the error messages and <a href="http://veganline:8082/install.php?profile=commerce_kickstart&locale=en">proceed with the installation</a>. </div></div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-9390693913110741472011-12-10T22:33:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:24:59.634+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">Just in case somebody asks, these are the three ways to install Drupal and reasons they don't work for me. I'm writing this in case I need to brief someone to help.<br />
<ol><li><span style="color: #990000;">A one-click install from the control panel of a server. </span><br style="color: #990000;" /><br style="color: #990000;" /><span style="color: #990000;">(a) Doesn't install the Kickstart version of Drupal Commerce Shopping Cart. This is a bit like a comfort blanket - I think I've learned to do without it - but as the program doesn't work without a lot of tweaking unless you have this installation profile, I'd like to be able to start from the Kickstart version every time I need to.</span><br style="color: #990000;" /><br style="color: #990000;" /><span style="color: #990000;">(b) Puts too much strain on the server if I need to install extra modules. The program is a bit too big to do this on a middling sized server. So I would have to download it onto my hard disc somehow, do the updates and fixes, and them upload it to the server again. This is in fact what I want to do but starting on the hard disc. It comes to the same thing; I still need to back-up everything to my hard disc, tinker there, and upload again.</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #351c75;">Unpack Drupal on my hard disc, follow rather intricate instructions for file transfer to the server, and turning-on a the database to recognise all these files. </span><br style="color: #351c75;" /><br style="color: #351c75;" /><span style="color: #351c75;">With luck when I upload I get a welcome screen asking questions like "is your database called localhost?" and the thing installs itself. It's a bit of a black art the first few times but I think I've got the hang.</span><br style="color: #351c75;" /><br style="color: #351c75;" /><span style="color: #351c75;">Unfortunately Drupal 6 could almost work like this but Drupal 7 is just too big, and if I stick to older releases I will be missing-out on a lot of shopping cart modules. When I try to install, the server just says it's out of memory and the helpdesk says this can't be changed.</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #38761d;">Unpack a server onto my hard disc - a set of all the programs a server needs - and press the "import" button to import a version of Drupal, which could be Drupal Commerce Kickstart for the first stage of a shopping cart.</span><br />
<br style="color: #38761d;" /><span style="color: #38761d;">This is the only system that could work and sometimes it does. I have managed once to install Drupal Commerce Kickstart onto a server program called Aquia Drupal Desktop, and from there managed a slightly laborious way of importing the data from its database to the one on my proper server that the world can see.</span><br style="color: #38761d;" /><br style="color: #38761d;" /><span style="color: #38761d;">Unfortunately my installation doesn't work. It finds error messages in every other thing it does. I guess this is because I should have updated or uploaded a load of files that go with Drupal's database onto the server, and I just deleted them thinking that the ones already there might do. Now I can't repeat the actions which worked in the past for this step three.</span></li>
</ol>Even if I could get the thing installed there would be a bit of work laying-out the site using various layout themes or writing one, and I might be quite accident-prone at that.</div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-26772909554271007932011-12-10T22:08:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:25:01.060+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><b>A confusion is that installation can work one day and not the next. Why?</b><br />
<br />
If I could re-install a Drupal Commerce Kickstart on the Aquia Drupal installer, make sure I don't delete any related files, and then FTP those files up to the server at the same time I move the database content, that would be an excercise completed. I would know if a mismatch of database and surrounding files is making my test site wonky.<br />
<br />
According to <i>Drupal 7 Essential Training - Getting a Drupal site up fast</i> the Kickstarter or Drupal files simply uncompress. I find that they don't and any software like 7zip or Pea Zip or windows XP's own unpacker reports a problem or asks for a password just in case that's the trouble. This stage must have worked for me at least once in the past so why now now?<br />
<br />
<b>Update 12/12: the same file dowloads, and when I click on it it opens to reveal a folder called Drupal, which is quite different to a couple of days ago. Clicking on this unzips it with Windows XP's built-in unzipper. Unzipping is strangely slow but it works. Meanwhile the old download file won't unzip and won't delete. I googled the error message and found that some people log-on as administrator to delete such stuff, others like me downlowd a program called Unlocker, which worked. You have to steer past several adverts on Softpedia trying to look like your dowload button so that you download other programs as well, but I managed to skip them this time.</b><br />
<br />
Just as in Tom Geller video on Youtube, I can import the Drupal directory into my Aquia Drupal desktop. I deleted my old one and imported the new, giving it the same file name as the one on my server. And this time I didn't delete all the files in the folder after importing to the desktopy thing.<br />
<br />
</div><hr />If anyone is interested in Ubercart video tutorials which are meant to be a quick way to get an ecommerce site online, this is a list of some available:<br />
<br />
Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>]</div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-15360128797471655542011-12-08T19:22:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:25:02.451+01:00<b>Idea:</b> upload the .php files by FTP. Simply find the ones for the Aquia Drupal installation on my hard disc, and upload them. Would that stop the error messages on the server version of my site?<br />
<br />
<b>Problem: </b>I can't find the files on my hard disc.<br />
<ul><li>I tried logging onto the site. It shows on a browser as http://sitename:8082/ </li>
<li>I change something a little. I log out and search all the files changed today, in date order. Only MySQL entries have changed.</li>
<li>I go back to the site in the browser, press control+U to view source, and copy the name of a file to the clipboard. It is /themes/bartik/css/layout.css . Then I search for that file on my hard disc. Not found. It is a ghost.</li>
</ul><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-89489501264621335972011-12-03T17:58:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:25:03.859+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><b>Uploaded a database!</b><b> </b><br />
<br />
I used "import" from a phpadmin screen on my server.<br />
Initially I couldn't tell what sort of thing to import; the database on my hard disc had a load of files, but "export" with an option of .sql or .csv was a clue. I exported to the desktop. <br />
<br />
My server already has an installation of drupal so the files were already on the server.<br />
<br />
Several tweaks to get the server database to accept the one on the hard disc.<br />
<ul><li>I had to give the one on the hard disc the same file name as the one already allocated. My host only allows one database per user which might be a reason for this.</li>
<li>I had to look at a screenload of database files on the server's phpmyadmin screen, scroll down past the bottom of the screen to find a way of selecting all the tickboxes, then choose delete from a dropdown menu. Textbook writers would probably found some way of saving the old work first.</li>
<li>The new data works with complaints and error messages about every third click about this thing changing or that thing not available. phpmyadmin also has a "repair" option for all ticked boxes, which I tried using, possibly in a way that helped.</li>
<li>I don't know what all these errors and grumbles mean. One is about keeping temp files in a place called C:/windows/temp which doesn't exist on my server. So the next job is to work out what it should be. <br />
Meanwhile I see that the repaired database is presented with a single error message next to about a quarter of the lines: " The storage engine for the table doesn't support r... " .</li>
<li>Somewhere on one of the Drupal report screens I got a change to change the place it puts temp files. I chose temp and have a way of making that folder not readable by strangers. So all should be well? No. I try the same "repair" command again and still have about a quarter of the database lines reporting error messages.</li>
</ul>--------------------------<br />
1/4/2012<br />
Discovered a video on this which is free at the moment <i><a href="http://www.lynda.com/home/Player.aspx?lpk4=78851&playChapter=False">Installing Drupal on a Server</a>. </i><br />
Discovered from docs.aquia.com that you have to turn-on the local install from Windows>Start>Acquia Dev Desktop>Control Panel . Turn it on and it goes. Don't turn it on and there's nothing to find in your browser.<br />
<br />
---------------------------<br />
for anyone interested in Ubercart video tutorials that are meant to make Drupal ecommerce relatively quick or possible compared to Magento or whatever a paid-for developer suggests, here are some links.<br />
<br />
Transcribed videos: -<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/ubercart-7-of-10-catalog.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 7 of 10 showed how to use the default catalog module</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-8-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 8 of 10 showed an alternative flexible method of showing a catalog</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/10/drupal-7-ubercart-tutorial-9-or-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 9 of 10 shows how to use product kits, stock, and order states</a>]<br />
[<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2013/11/drupal-7-ubercart-10-of-10.html">Drupal 7 / Ubercart video tutorial 10 of 10 shows a simple checkout, reports, and suggests a theme</a>] <br />
<br />
<ul></ul></div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-36799332761171654382011-12-03T00:47:00.001+00:002018-10-21T10:25:05.501+01:00Economics courses are sometimes like this<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;"><h3 style="text-align: left;">Part V1</h3><h3 style="text-align: left;">General Equilibrium and Welfare Economics</h3><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQTqcBH8tSI1JmidmvbcdW0wdxmSgB75ParjEGH1tjnLwFItLKym1NXs4VIByQjb7hYYXNECoGCIpQtRiKwvMqj2eg9NAtV0rikkw1WguIfESliOh6QANazRB53X4r81RhmW8Oi-o9znW9/s1600/laidler002.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" title="Introduction
Up to now we have dealt chiefly with the behaviour of individual economic agents, the individual consumer, and the individual firm. Even when we have considered market activity, we have dealt with the market for a particular good or productive service. The rest of the economic system, the behaviour of other economic agents, the markets for other goods and services have always lain in the background. We have been concerned with what is generally called 'partial equilibrium' analysis, in which specific aspects of the economic system arc picked out and studied in detail on the assumption that the relative neglect of other aspects will not lead us into serious error.
There also exists a well developed body of 'general equilibrium' analysis which deals with precisely those aspects of the interaction of individual economic agents and the inter-action of the markets for particular goods and services that we have so far ignored. General equilibrium theory tries to describe how a market economy as a whole would operate. This chapter will deal with some aspects of this body of theory. First we will describe a simple economy in general equilibrium and then look at certain normative propositions that may be developed in the context of such an economy. "><img border="0" data-original-height="1275" data-original-width="1294" height="392" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQTqcBH8tSI1JmidmvbcdW0wdxmSgB75ParjEGH1tjnLwFItLKym1NXs4VIByQjb7hYYXNECoGCIpQtRiKwvMqj2eg9NAtV0rikkw1WguIfESliOh6QANazRB53X4r81RhmW8Oi-o9znW9/s400/laidler002.jpg" width="400" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEip1s_V-ec-UFuf4tZFdEm03G7qdzTg3ZfgS3POOAH_dNdD351pctMH70y6GZR0QtPWKzrh-f7ZsdxF56Z5chiLFqC2MZZSlcRqmjadey4B7t_U3i1J5WRpvdTXP-n2uiPyo-KIuLnChKAP/s1600/laidler003.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="A Simple Exchange Economy Consider an economic system in which there are two goods, made available to consumers at constant rates per unit of time. There is no production, the goods are simply regularly delivered from the outside. Moreover, let there be only two consumers in this economy. Certain properties of general equilibrium systems may be displayed in terms of this simple exchange economy and its essential aspects can be set out in a diagram. Let the goods with which the economy is endowed be called X and Y, and let us call the two consumers A and B. In figure 18.1 we measure quantities of X on the horizontal axis and of Y on the vertical. There is a maximum amount of X in the economy, X0, and a maximum amount of Y, 170 , so let us close off the space above and to the right of the axes at these quantities, thus drawing a box. Let us measure the quantity of X available for consumer A (XA) from left to " border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="986" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEip1s_V-ec-UFuf4tZFdEm03G7qdzTg3ZfgS3POOAH_dNdD351pctMH70y6GZR0QtPWKzrh-f7ZsdxF56Z5chiLFqC2MZZSlcRqmjadey4B7t_U3i1J5WRpvdTXP-n2uiPyo-KIuLnChKAP/s640/laidler003.jpg" title="A Simple Exchange Economy Consider an economic system in which there are two goods, made available to consumers at constant rates per unit of time. There is no production, the goods are simply regularly delivered from the outside. Moreover, let there be only two consumers in this economy. Certain properties of general equilibrium systems may be displayed in terms of this simple exchange economy and its essential aspects can be set out in a diagram. Let the goods with which the economy is endowed be called X and Y, and let us call the two consumers A and B. In figure 18.1 we measure quantities of X on the horizontal axis and of Y on the vertical. There is a maximum amount of X in the economy, X0, and a maximum amount of Y, 170 , so let us close off the space above and to the right of the axes at these quantities, thus drawing a box. Let us measure the quantity of X available for consumer A (XA) from left to " width="394" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhN44PhXcvzByR1I3kNzgQQ7eSUZ8M56PgUZGMlnGzcNqHfQIhqciE22PPsQzW0FadAG6qxA2BXoMRXlKMJAvzA_0Bd9HE62nhNkyUaMwTcmDTMzpHR9XsaPwybJBi88YvtatIhHh7PJ6i-/s1600/laidler004.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="right along the horizontal axis and the quantity of Y available to him ( YA ) from bottom to top of the vertical axis. If we do this it is apparent that Xo minus A's consumption of X gives us the amount left over for B to consume, while Yo minus A, consumption of Y gives us the amount of Y left over for B. That is, if we treat the bottom left-hand comer of our box as the origin from which A, consumption is to be measured, the top right-hand corner becomes the origin from which B, consumption can be measured. If we impose the condition that A and B between them will consume all available goo., then we may interpret any point within the box as representing a combination of X and Y consumed by A and a combination of X and Y consumed by B. Thus, if A consumes XA of X and YA of Y, then B will consume Xo—XA and Yo— YA , and the point labelled H represents this joint consumption pattern. Any point within the box — including those on the axes —represents a joint consumption pattern that is feasible given the quantities of X and Y available. We may draw our two individuals' preference patterns for X and Y as figure 18.2. A's satisfaction increases as we move from bottom left to top right and B, increases as we move from top right to bottom left. If our two individuals trade X and Y on a competitive market, so that X is purchased and paid for in terms of Y, and vice versa, there is a little that we can say about the equilibrium solution to their trading activities. An essential characteristic of a competitive market is that every participant in it trades at the same price for each good. Equally essential as a characteristic of the behaviour of a utility maximising individual is that he equates the marginal rate of substitution between goods to the ratio of their prices. If we combine these two properties with the condition that joint consumption of X and Y must just exhaust the amounts of these goods available, we may deduce that the market for X and Y will be in equilibrium somewhere along a line which passes through all those points at which the two individuals' indifference curves are tangent to each other. This line is known as a contract curve and links up all those points at which A's marginal rate of substitution of X for Y is equal to B's — and hence equal to a common price ratio — and at which their joint consumption just exhausts " border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1004" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhN44PhXcvzByR1I3kNzgQQ7eSUZ8M56PgUZGMlnGzcNqHfQIhqciE22PPsQzW0FadAG6qxA2BXoMRXlKMJAvzA_0Bd9HE62nhNkyUaMwTcmDTMzpHR9XsaPwybJBi88YvtatIhHh7PJ6i-/s640/laidler004.jpg" title="right along the horizontal axis and the quantity of Y available to him ( YA ) from bottom to top of the vertical axis. If we do this it is apparent that Xo minus A's consumption of X gives us the amount left over for B to consume, while Yo minus A, consumption of Y gives us the amount of Y left over for B. That is, if we treat the bottom left-hand comer of our box as the origin from which A, consumption is to be measured, the top right-hand corner becomes the origin from which B, consumption can be measured. If we impose the condition that A and B between them will consume all available goo., then we may interpret any point within the box as representing a combination of X and Y consumed by A and a combination of X and Y consumed by B. Thus, if A consumes XA of X and YA of Y, then B will consume Xo—XA and Yo— YA , and the point labelled H represents this joint consumption pattern. Any point within the box — including those on the axes —represents a joint consumption pattern that is feasible given the quantities of X and Y available. We may draw our two individuals' preference patterns for X and Y as figure 18.2. A's satisfaction increases as we move from bottom left to top right and B, increases as we move from top right to bottom left. If our two individuals trade X and Y on a competitive market, so that X is purchased and paid for in terms of Y, and vice versa, there is a little that we can say about the equilibrium solution to their trading activities. An essential characteristic of a competitive market is that every participant in it trades at the same price for each good. Equally essential as a characteristic of the behaviour of a utility maximising individual is that he equates the marginal rate of substitution between goods to the ratio of their prices. If we combine these two properties with the condition that joint consumption of X and Y must just exhaust the amounts of these goods available, we may deduce that the market for X and Y will be in equilibrium somewhere along a line which passes through all those points at which the two individuals' indifference curves are tangent to each other. This line is known as a contract curve and links up all those points at which A's marginal rate of substitution of X for Y is equal to B's — and hence equal to a common price ratio — and at which their joint consumption just exhausts " width="401" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLqdvLOibfJWNwQhB-gX0rtVSGq5OU4W3lZ3wawXR06oJle09yG13rB58WTtuwXcgJQkxf7E3tbI62l0JDI1krlLX48e4nXnQB9_NsuMBeOFxUmiCu63dNIH4v9m4IZGjsvEztgd0XegA-/s1600/laidler005.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="969" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLqdvLOibfJWNwQhB-gX0rtVSGq5OU4W3lZ3wawXR06oJle09yG13rB58WTtuwXcgJQkxf7E3tbI62l0JDI1krlLX48e4nXnQB9_NsuMBeOFxUmiCu63dNIH4v9m4IZGjsvEztgd0XegA-/s640/laidler005.jpg" width="387" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmxAzDqq-kcBrWvpQqQRZXoe78D4y5LxVS7Vf1YYfcmx0YzRuA6WHFsS3ftWVUXWsqKjWkIi41vJB8XM6lzmgK1LmhQTsS0GTnNpe4nj8eSC4MgLkzUnkrGrCAwdrimlA5czov2dLa2lR6/s1600/laidler006.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="959" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmxAzDqq-kcBrWvpQqQRZXoe78D4y5LxVS7Vf1YYfcmx0YzRuA6WHFsS3ftWVUXWsqKjWkIi41vJB8XM6lzmgK1LmhQTsS0GTnNpe4nj8eSC4MgLkzUnkrGrCAwdrimlA5czov2dLa2lR6/s640/laidler006.jpg" width="383" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPV9U1HczqoePFExu9hEJWZKJpSfRKz0PvXA-XRydAyhnItls9Ld0xHiUEhI4RZjUb3w4gIWOT8PlX-uoL4Z-z19pLMNLYyBaYDctcgQKrt28f2JIvVlhXfDAJX07iV_ERd-qAI5zifiaf/s1600/laidler007.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="961" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPV9U1HczqoePFExu9hEJWZKJpSfRKz0PvXA-XRydAyhnItls9Ld0xHiUEhI4RZjUb3w4gIWOT8PlX-uoL4Z-z19pLMNLYyBaYDctcgQKrt28f2JIvVlhXfDAJX07iV_ERd-qAI5zifiaf/s640/laidler007.jpg" width="384" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhNdqbH2fZeSAag6kPL7xl_GEjlRxUo30se4yyQSPqHw-pcNNlDgE33bwRHOBY7BqMe6RzZ6Pmx716LSHs0Iy4PMS6_4F-0BILURUiwcSpvSE-gLeAbZ5DhUgTJe_4tOuyt8ZoV8d2R6ggN/s1600/laidler008.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="961" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhNdqbH2fZeSAag6kPL7xl_GEjlRxUo30se4yyQSPqHw-pcNNlDgE33bwRHOBY7BqMe6RzZ6Pmx716LSHs0Iy4PMS6_4F-0BILURUiwcSpvSE-gLeAbZ5DhUgTJe_4tOuyt8ZoV8d2R6ggN/s640/laidler008.jpg" width="384" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXEERgj5XNe3RxKbwjl1JjETq_Sshwl-_-AGLNFaLyv0jJ8sO4pT0HLAr8MxVzvXeb2blImLKaWph3gmyAAS1b-rvIzlC4EA83eeRTt5J-waidIfjNHz0btcoD_j5n8p27z2bmn4uUcEmE/s1600/laidler009.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="932" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXEERgj5XNe3RxKbwjl1JjETq_Sshwl-_-AGLNFaLyv0jJ8sO4pT0HLAr8MxVzvXeb2blImLKaWph3gmyAAS1b-rvIzlC4EA83eeRTt5J-waidIfjNHz0btcoD_j5n8p27z2bmn4uUcEmE/s640/laidler009.jpg" width="372" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdnvyr7nvDhcHs_pKTJj5UBeJ4BPWMYFP44STzoOYOmXnogJRKGChwix0HPhMOyfPOM56mzAsbAnbT09wcG5tC8e6DwPIcAhFhpS7pUO2boDTijcp0bdcoHSJz7hyphenhyphenmFPPnmner8wzFcKOr/s1600/laidler010.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="918" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdnvyr7nvDhcHs_pKTJj5UBeJ4BPWMYFP44STzoOYOmXnogJRKGChwix0HPhMOyfPOM56mzAsbAnbT09wcG5tC8e6DwPIcAhFhpS7pUO2boDTijcp0bdcoHSJz7hyphenhyphenmFPPnmner8wzFcKOr/s640/laidler010.jpg" width="366" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYn5yAryA7pzEQAdGmOpKJMuc2hnvyRH2F8Z0Q8HgGw-DEJVBtNXTTk70karu7gu6ey6wYsUuf3O9drTWFX5gvGf-2qQGRlzeiy4bRvQNSwrCXdgBf0zl0Z0HJWc-4v8GvS7dw72cIiCqH/s1600/laidler011.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="973" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYn5yAryA7pzEQAdGmOpKJMuc2hnvyRH2F8Z0Q8HgGw-DEJVBtNXTTk70karu7gu6ey6wYsUuf3O9drTWFX5gvGf-2qQGRlzeiy4bRvQNSwrCXdgBf0zl0Z0HJWc-4v8GvS7dw72cIiCqH/s640/laidler011.jpg" width="388" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDgt6Bx0osIgGcNmiTKqY-CT-jn63Vnd2f2kO9YmNCJnpODg0ni3PiGqYzyhndfgU0JrPIIwSbivMQWKoWAX_Aj-O7mvOSHEA4nHxo8SZGwbaWjWWJsF_rcZSELg4Y79PMqaJzwkQlZqy3/s1600/laidler012.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="961" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDgt6Bx0osIgGcNmiTKqY-CT-jn63Vnd2f2kO9YmNCJnpODg0ni3PiGqYzyhndfgU0JrPIIwSbivMQWKoWAX_Aj-O7mvOSHEA4nHxo8SZGwbaWjWWJsF_rcZSELg4Y79PMqaJzwkQlZqy3/s640/laidler012.jpg" width="384" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhFXZGQwWiDJTD2DakACsbW_v09JnxrnqxpA6V3L2-aqGXGfsVCNPmd1IG2a7T59TQ2C6Bdvn3JhAkcfgVBa0wG7GZpYk7ZgyiB3zkgMhm7ljm6EVQoEqWprHufI_Zj4jM_ZZw_JfznX5Ro/s1600/laidler013.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="938" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhFXZGQwWiDJTD2DakACsbW_v09JnxrnqxpA6V3L2-aqGXGfsVCNPmd1IG2a7T59TQ2C6Bdvn3JhAkcfgVBa0wG7GZpYk7ZgyiB3zkgMhm7ljm6EVQoEqWprHufI_Zj4jM_ZZw_JfznX5Ro/s640/laidler013.jpg" width="374" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi7-Iw8ZUqSQ17vm294ETjesE70hpQu0MLK9559-m6HVo58_VnhfAAzXqcGC5JiYkJG4ToozprZyC8F4rPozMToPk6IQw_9xnxwmqcxA_u15Ha1bHTZWQugrK0ZavlKGnd6jqIDiddrLMaJ/s1600/laidler014.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="943" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi7-Iw8ZUqSQ17vm294ETjesE70hpQu0MLK9559-m6HVo58_VnhfAAzXqcGC5JiYkJG4ToozprZyC8F4rPozMToPk6IQw_9xnxwmqcxA_u15Ha1bHTZWQugrK0ZavlKGnd6jqIDiddrLMaJ/s640/laidler014.jpg" width="376" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcPGR3SqLqYO6JY8o8QK5Pz4IxXaZHhQ-suReDpu3GRcTb8msH1el3DvlsIkV4G-78KfX8duQKoXqmxvd8SPV_4BhsEXsaXIeSZ-vs-2YofIciNXEMSe5WY9lVI8O2tpwQ9Uvo6lr5NkOB/s1600/laidler015.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1021" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcPGR3SqLqYO6JY8o8QK5Pz4IxXaZHhQ-suReDpu3GRcTb8msH1el3DvlsIkV4G-78KfX8duQKoXqmxvd8SPV_4BhsEXsaXIeSZ-vs-2YofIciNXEMSe5WY9lVI8O2tpwQ9Uvo6lr5NkOB/s640/laidler015.jpg" width="408" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDTRIiwXN0M_YaJdoW7pgmqDs4NbcYowROl1K8oXW8S3IXG0OQNSH-zEOsIZVRZKGEoVtv0VDSod-CmQkV5CJD6JBH5k6Q3fTlGGAOeNMffDUjSqrw52ZnluAtjPX_P4odh48Xw18g45Bv/s1600/laidler016.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="943" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDTRIiwXN0M_YaJdoW7pgmqDs4NbcYowROl1K8oXW8S3IXG0OQNSH-zEOsIZVRZKGEoVtv0VDSod-CmQkV5CJD6JBH5k6Q3fTlGGAOeNMffDUjSqrw52ZnluAtjPX_P4odh48Xw18g45Bv/s640/laidler016.jpg" width="376" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg45KED8lq2-mmiMGKiViA-ffuJuL4E_fpIkwyJIedJ1UJrp-Yhq5cII0ylWWoFNTRFv_DllCTyv6VPjvkjZlQzqeIS9eBDgQ5iJ_EPjloGfRE0oRLUFIq1IpskRwSXwEq9FOxWjGR-EcCX/s1600/laidler017.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="973" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg45KED8lq2-mmiMGKiViA-ffuJuL4E_fpIkwyJIedJ1UJrp-Yhq5cII0ylWWoFNTRFv_DllCTyv6VPjvkjZlQzqeIS9eBDgQ5iJ_EPjloGfRE0oRLUFIq1IpskRwSXwEq9FOxWjGR-EcCX/s640/laidler017.jpg" width="388" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCCCf7W1WpKI5U9Qo7xevEIDlyAydpBgWu2Bq-y1FAeCK5WYFcW3Knccs0LQYLtTIUJm-SNeGObWZ7xZAutbmbRW-Zx9wn7SmYQ1eyJ13SCilleEaGHPS0lr1QgAE05rmH2oeQfYajUNXG/s1600/laidler018.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="943" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCCCf7W1WpKI5U9Qo7xevEIDlyAydpBgWu2Bq-y1FAeCK5WYFcW3Knccs0LQYLtTIUJm-SNeGObWZ7xZAutbmbRW-Zx9wn7SmYQ1eyJ13SCilleEaGHPS0lr1QgAE05rmH2oeQfYajUNXG/s640/laidler018.jpg" width="376" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWCuTR1M07WEEfbP9eQkihJK-VSD8e_grwmKX4K7E2efltu4y-sDPpJXn1AUDtQljRh9vkcKe9TlnejyN7AF5fgAofoNrxw-4yGxBJUkWwspzCpjYpW78Cz2nqw0bdXCskhKz6yzcuoTjz/s1600/laidler019.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="973" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWCuTR1M07WEEfbP9eQkihJK-VSD8e_grwmKX4K7E2efltu4y-sDPpJXn1AUDtQljRh9vkcKe9TlnejyN7AF5fgAofoNrxw-4yGxBJUkWwspzCpjYpW78Cz2nqw0bdXCskhKz6yzcuoTjz/s640/laidler019.jpg" width="388" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiX8wKJ4BdP5dRE0lDEhkeZiq6dHpS-gXauT-YlmpYQgiKVJi5x5L7aMRO7hyphenhyphenaRMhB6NL30kTNeX7PsA3cm5rOElhyphenhyphenXhwO2IVZdfRzj_j0WgW71AbYKmnVvJX2bSkoQ4cHBUZdeDsi6qgyK/s1600/laidler020.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="943" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiX8wKJ4BdP5dRE0lDEhkeZiq6dHpS-gXauT-YlmpYQgiKVJi5x5L7aMRO7hyphenhyphenaRMhB6NL30kTNeX7PsA3cm5rOElhyphenhyphenXhwO2IVZdfRzj_j0WgW71AbYKmnVvJX2bSkoQ4cHBUZdeDsi6qgyK/s640/laidler020.jpg" width="376" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYY-ttC4n3-KF_Q4LNQqvAYACObu7FeQ84lKcVLQwj_5LSQ_m8Eoi6c6mPEo_b8y3wpCyqRb7iO87bOL6FMj6HcMN0OEmcruIQqNu2h1EtPc0uwkpcYIBRurtCohHu0o7tiPZ32B9MQdFs/s1600/laidler023.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="956" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYY-ttC4n3-KF_Q4LNQqvAYACObu7FeQ84lKcVLQwj_5LSQ_m8Eoi6c6mPEo_b8y3wpCyqRb7iO87bOL6FMj6HcMN0OEmcruIQqNu2h1EtPc0uwkpcYIBRurtCohHu0o7tiPZ32B9MQdFs/s640/laidler023.jpg" width="382" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHqbFI14ib42SGrf3PeEykes-tT2oFcNuhQW58yCdiYb1eKjA2yo0L-YrY6fXZ5eR_2-ZhSyEd9c3rRUirO4yt6BxiTUjQ1Jbl_zBOIHzsSofRk9sPCPuD77UGOontceagd9PgrCtiGZvQ/s1600/laidler021.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="943" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHqbFI14ib42SGrf3PeEykes-tT2oFcNuhQW58yCdiYb1eKjA2yo0L-YrY6fXZ5eR_2-ZhSyEd9c3rRUirO4yt6BxiTUjQ1Jbl_zBOIHzsSofRk9sPCPuD77UGOontceagd9PgrCtiGZvQ/s640/laidler021.jpg" width="376" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><hr style="margin-left: 0px; margin-right: auto;" /><div style="text-align: left;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div><br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: red;"><br />
</span></h3><blockquote class="tr_bq"><fieldset>Related:<br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2018/01/international-student-course.html">International Student Course Satisfaction</a><br />
Table of feedback scores for the economics degrees for the universities that take most international students. Most of the courses are at the bottom of the league table for student feedback</fieldset></blockquote></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-40105934426590391582011-11-29T18:26:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:25:06.969+01:00Getting a Drupal site up fast - Drupal 7<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rubREehi7qY"><span style="font-size: large;"><span class="long-title" dir="ltr" id="eow-title" title="lynda.com Tutorial | Drupal 7 Essential Training—Getting a Drupal site up fast">Drupal 7 Essential Training—Getting a Drupal site up fast - Tom Geller </span></span></a><br />
<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rubREehi7qY" width="560"></iframe> You've probably looked at the dozens of videos in this course and said: <br />
<i>"whoa! wait a second. I just want to get my site up".</i><br />
This video gives you only the most bare instructions to get a Drupal site running, and then tells you which other videos to watch for more help.<br />
There are basically three steps.<br />
<ol><li><b>1st</b>, we'll download and install the <a href="http://www.acquia.com/downloads">Aquia Drupal Stack Installer</a>, also known as DAMP. [or "dev desktop"]</li>
<li><b>2nd</b> we'll download and install Core Drupal - that's the Drupal you get from Drupal.org - into that DAMP.</li>
<li><b>3rd</b>, we'll run Drupal's browser-based installer. And that's it! Then we'll be ready to add content and administer our site.</li>
</ol>Now, along the way, I'm going to do this very very quickly, and in fact I have already down-loaded some of these files and un-compressed them. If you have any problems with these steps, see the computer literacy course by Garrick Chow, also on Lynda.com.<br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">1<span style="font-size: x-large;">: Stac<span style="font-size: x-large;">k Installer</span> </span></span></b><br />
But - let's get started. Our first stop is at <a href="http://acquia.com/downloads">http://acquia.com/downloads</a> Here we get started by looking over here for the platform we're on. Here we're on Windows so I just click <i>"download now"</i> and save it. That'll take a few moments. We then go to our download location which in my case is the desktop, and double click the file that's been downloaded there [which shows as a blue droplet]. Your computer may throw-up a message that warns you about installing a program from the internet. In this case, I know we want to do it so I click <i>"yes"</i>.<br />
<br />
That launches the Drupal Stack Installer. I'm just going to click through this. You really don't have to change any of the defaults. I'll explain what they are in a later video about installing the Drupal stack installer. <br />
<br />
Finally we get to the stage where we're finally going to name our site. We're actually going to replace the version of Drupal that's installed by the Acquia Stack installer, so it doesn't matter what we put here. Still, for consitancy, I'll say<br />
<ul><li>User name is <i>admin</i>, and </li>
<li>Password, as it is throughout this course, is <i>drupal</i>. You of course will use whatever password you prefer. And an email address. And then click next.</li>
</ul>You get a confirmation screen, click next again, and then one more time to install the Stack installer. This process will take a few minutes ... and we're done! Click Finish.<br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">2: Core Drupal</span></b> <br />
That launches the control panel for aquia Drupal. So that's our first step completed. Now we want to grab core Drupal, and import it into this stack. To do that, we go back to our web browser, and go to <a href="https://drupal.org/project/drupal">https://drupal.org/project/drupal</a> Scroll down on this page until you get down to the downloads area. Now: I'm making this video before the official release of [Drupal version]7.0 so I'm going to download this one. However, by the time you see it, you'll probably see a 7.0 or a 7.something version of it up here in the green area, and that's the one that you should download.<br />
<br />
I click here to download. I've already done it, and the download is on the desktop. So I'll go there, and I'll start the import process.<br />
<br />
So there's our Drupal folder <i>after</i> its been un-compressed. If you have any problems with that, watch Garick Chou's videos on computer literacy, also on Lynda.com . I'm going to rename that folder <i>"Two Trees"</i>. That goes-along with the name of the site that we'll be building throughout the course, which is about a fictional olive oil company called <i>Two Trees Olive Oil.</i><br />
<br />
Once we've renamed the folder, I go back into my control panel. Go to <i>Settings</i>. And <i>Sites</i>. And <i>Import</i>. (The button opens a file listing of the hard disc). I find that folder (Drupal, renamed <i>Two Trees</i>) and click OK.<br />
<br />
Create a new database. I'll call that <i>"Two Trees"</i> as well. And call the server <i>"Two Trees".</i> And click <i>Import.</i><br />
<b><span style="font-size: x-large;">3<span style="font-size: x-large;">: <span style="font-size: x-large;">Drupal's B<span style="font-size: x-large;">rowser-based installer</span></span></span></span></b><br />
Doing so launches our browser, and starts the third stage of our installation process, by opening Drupal's own installer. Click <i>Save and continue</i>, and continue-on. Again, I will go through all these steps individually in a later video. Finally we add a little bit of information about the site, including the primary - what's called the <i>Super User</i>. I'll call this <i>Two Trees Olive Oil</i>. Put in a little bit of other information. Finally click <i>Save and continue.</i> And that takes us to our completely installed Drupal site. Click on <i>Visit your new site</i>, and we are done!<br />
<br />
Now you can start adding content to your new site, changing the design, managing users - basically doing everything it takes to make this site your own.<br />
<br />
If you just need a quick and dirty way to get started, see the video <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCK0htfVjA0"><i>Learning Drupal's Basic Workflow</i></a>. Then, once your site is ready on your laptop or desktop computer, you can move that installation to a server, which you'll learn about from several videos entitled <i><a href="http://www.lynda.com/home/Player.aspx?lpk4=78851&playChapter=False">Installing Drupal on a Server</a>.[note: you need to re-start the program from Windows > Start > Acquia Dev Desktop or such each time you re-start your computer.]</i><br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-38564223639210373802011-11-29T14:58:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:25:08.411+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Importing Commerce Kickstarter into Aquia Drupal desktop.<br />
<br />
There is a video by Tom Geller of Lynda.com about this, but I lost it and got a 1 week pass on Lynda.com fo<br />
<i><a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6918438150183530009">Installing Drupal Commerce using Commerce Kickstart</a></i><br />
<br />
The free forever video is <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rubREehi7qY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rubREehi7qY</a><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rubREehi7qY" width="560"></iframe>
Install Aquia Drupal desktop, which no mysteriously works. I remember something about using the Zip version on the right and not the more compressed Tar version on the left of the download page because of a windows bug.<br />
<br />
Unzip Drupal Commerce Kickstarter, which is a full version of Drupal with an extra shop bit, and name it something nice like "Two Trees" for a fictional Olive Oil Company in California.<br />
Next, open the control panel of Aquia Drupal desktop from the start menu, and click-about on it till you find an "import" button. It's under settings>Sites>Import.<br />
<br />
An "Import Site" form pops-up with boxes to fill in: <br />
"codebase": <i>Two Trees</i><br />
"database" Click the option to create a new database, and name it <i>Two Trees. </i>A spare box dissapears.<br />
"domain server": change <i>"localhost" </i>to <i>"two trees". </i>Ignore the other boxes under "domain server".<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
On the video, a Drupal install starts at this point with options of plain drupal or this Kickstarter thing.<br />
On my screen, an error message pops-up reading<br />
<br />
<a href="https://network.acquia.com/node/841046">"hosts file doesn't exist or is not writable/ 'C:\WINDOWS\System32\drivers\etc\hosts' "</a><br />
<br />
Googling for answers I found one on the linked page:<br />
<br />
<h2 class="title">
<i><a class="active" href="https://network.acquia.com/node/841046#comment-40813">"Windows only"
go to:</a></i></h2>
<div class="subtext">
<i>Posted on July 19, 2010 - 7:48pm by Ouail E..</i></div>
<div class="content">
<i>"Windows only"<br />
go to: C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc<br />
locate the hosts file, right click it, click properties, un-check Read only, create your new site via the Acquia CP.<br />
when all done, go back to the hosts file and check red only.<br />
should work fine.</i><br />
<br />
Clicking from the My Computer link, I found there really is a file called HOSTS in one called ETC, and right clicking allows a change to <i>writable</i> from <i>read only.</i><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<br />
Bizarrely, it works: a set of Drupally forms appears and a site is set-up. I chose not to install a mail server with the Aquia Drupal Desktop, which could be why there's an error message:<br />
<ul>
<li><i class="placeholder">Warning</i>: mail() [<a href="http://veganline:8082/function.mail">function.mail</a>]:
Failed to connect to mailserver at "localhost" port 25, verify your
"SMTP" and "smtp_port" setting in php.ini or use ini_set() in <i class="placeholder">DefaultMailSystem->mail()</i> (line <i class="placeholder">76</i> of <i class="placeholder">C:\temp\veganline\modules\system\system.mail.inc</i>).</li>
<li>Unable to send e-mail. Contact the site administrator if the problem persists.</li>
</ul>
<br />
I will pretend I didn't see that because underneith it says <i>Congratulations, you installed Drupal Commerce!</i> - and has a link to visit the new site on my hard disc.<i></i><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<br />
The new site wants some updates, and knows where to get them. They download straight into the site which swallows them a lot more smoothly than my Drupal experiments crammed onto shared hosting. Those ones often run-out of memory during an update and need a few goes with the alt-backarrow keys and repeated tries before the update works. This manages all the updates at once without a hitch. Except for updating Drupal Core which is more manual. This is a warning transcribed from the video while I still have a free subscription.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
<i>Now for you experienced Drupal folks, I want to show you something very quickly about how Drupal Commerce sets things up. It's a little different from how standard Drupal does things, and that means you have to watch out when you update your site. To show you that I'll go back to my [hard disc] and open up my [kickstart] folder. </i><br />
<br />
<i>INCLUDES<br />MISC<br />MODULES</i><br />
<i>PROFILES</i><br />
<i>-<span style="color: red;">MODULES </span></i><i> </i><br />
<i><span style="color: red;"></span>--ADDRESSFIELD</i><br />
<i>--<span style="color: red;">COMMERCE</span></i><br />
<i>--CTOOLS</i><br />
<i>--ENTITY</i><br />
<i>--RULES</i><br />
<i>--VIEWS<br />SCRIPTS<br />SITES</i><br />
<i>-ALL</i><br />
<i>--<span style="color: red;">MODULES </span></i><br />
<i>---- </i><i><span style="color: red;">SITES </span>Now normally in Drupal, all the information that's specific to your site is in this Sites folder here....</i><br />
<i>--THEMES</i><br />
--<i>readme.txt</i><br />
<i>-DEFAULT</i><br />
<i>-TWOTREES</i><br />
<i>example.sites.php<br />THEMES</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<i>...it would be in Modules, and then "Modules" would contain the modules, but you don't see them here. This is because Kickstart is a profile: All of the information is stored in </i><br />
<i>PROFILES</i><br />
<i><br /></i>
<i>Now I'm talking about the things that are specific to Commerce Kickstart - the modules, and the way that it is set-up - and if we open this PROFILES/MODULES folder, we see all of this extra stuff. In fact the PROFILES/MODULES/COMMERCE folder contains all the stuff that is specific to Drupal Commerce.</i><br />
<i><br /></i>
<i>I mention this because if you try to update the site the normal way, by just replacing everything except for the SITES folder, you will actually loose all of your commerce functionality, so be careful about that.</i><br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<br />
The video doesn't say which other folders to keep. Presumably the <i>PROFILES/MODULES/COMMERCE</i> one. </div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com" TITLE="european-based online vegan shoe shop selling belts boots shoes and slippers">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-22222851422862466962011-11-29T09:15:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:25:09.797+01:00Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/6/d1/6d19c83db015bf8b33e0db13d42d6630-orig" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><br />
</a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/6/d1/6d19c83db015bf8b33e0db13d42d6630-orig" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="216" src="https://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/6/d1/6d19c83db015bf8b33e0db13d42d6630-orig" width="320"></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Chernobyl control room No. 4 in 2000. From Wikipedia. Author?</td></tr>
</tbody></table>Here's the system for installing installers.<br />
<ul><li>Press control+alt+delete to reveal a list of what's running on your computer. <br />
<br />
</li>
<li>Right-click and turn off random things (do not do this if working in a nuclear power station or it might go funny like the one on the right)</li>
</ul>Miraculously, both Aquia Drupal and Bitnami worked today, and this is the only explanation I can give. <hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-18452273846763977742011-11-27T11:44:00.005+00:002018-10-21T10:25:13.162+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<h3 class="title"><span style="font-size: x-large;"><a class="active" href="https://drupalcommerce.org/node/420#comment-1995">https://vimeo.com/24275526 <br />
First steps in Drupal Commerce video</a></span></h3><i>Jumping ahead from installation, this is an informal lecture on how to link display nodes to product nodes in a manual first-steps kind of way. There's a box for it somewhere on the screen when you set-up the product display node. My result looked a bit like the Commerce Kickstart example - not something you could earn a living from yet - JR Transcriber</i><br />
<br />
Transcript of "First Steps in Drupal Commerce" at Colerado 2011 (making a Drupal Commerce site from scratch) <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
18.08<br />
So what we're going to do is we're just going to take a little bit of a look-around here on the Store menu and see what we find. The first thing that you think about when you think about a store is going to be the products that go in the store. So, if you come down here <br />
18.38<br />
to the second last option on the store menu then two columns across then you see that we have a list, of those products. Then we have the ability to have "product types" and we have an existing product type that we got installed for us by default, and then we have the ability to add products. And of course we have, just like we have with nodes, we have the ability to manage the display of those products, as we work with them.<br />
18.47<br />
Angie: So - these products are not nodes, like they were in Ubercart?<br />
That is correct: they are not nodes.<br />
Angie: And then the cart [inaudible] bundles?<br />
19<br />
I'm going to show you exactly: we're going to make one. We're going to make one and that's the very next thing we're going to do. Because that's like the very first hurdle of using Commerce, is like "What's a product?" and "What's a product display node?" So the very first thing we are going to do...<br />
19.16<br />
Well: first of all lets just take a look. Because we can take a product and manage the fields on it. Just like you would do on a <br />
19.27<br />
Oh wow! etc...<br />
<br />
19.50<br />
What we would be going to - I bet that it does this again. I don't know what the deal would be going to something just like when you're managing fields on a node <br />
20<br />
- something like that:<br />
seems to be part of the store menu labelled Product+ edit / manage fields (selcted) /Manage display<br />
We can add new fields of the product, like size, like colour, and we'll do that in a miute (assuming that ... yeah we'll do that! I don't think we'll run out of time to do that)<br />
20.18<br />
You'll see it comes by default with a title for the product, an image, a price, and a status. So we have all that by default. <br />
20.33<br />
And we're going to make a couple of products now. And so: we'll do that, and then, of course, on product we can manage the display as well. <br />
[click's the "Manage Display" tap on the top right after "Edit" and "Manage Fields"<br />
So that's like pretty smart like [inaudible]<br />
Angie - No idea<br />
[inaudible and stuff until...]<br />
21<br />
This is actually Drupal 7.0 which I wouldn't normally do with a Drush make (pull that down) but next week... Next week it will be 7.1<br />
21.11<br />
So let's go ahead and add a product .<br />
21.18<br />
We'll just add a red T shirt.<br />
So we will just do a red T shirt, and the <br />
SKU is going to be RedTshirt, and the <br />
Title is going to be Red T Shirt, and <br />
21.30<br />
I think I even have an image here that has a red T shirt in it, and<br />
Hey! Look at that red shirt.<br />
[Price box]<br />
And: I think this one's going to be $9.99<br />
21.49<br />
And: if we add other fields here, which we will have in a little while, we would fill that out just as we would on a node - a node-type bundle: the exact same thing. <br />
22.00<br />
Let's make a Blue Shirt<br />
Angie: - Is the SKU something like a Node Title like a required field that's always there?<br />
Um: I don't think that's required. I don't think so. I don't think it is because it's [inaudible].<br />
This one's going to be $9.98. So. <br />
22.30<br />
We've saved that, and now we have: What we have are a list here [screen shows Products+ in white on dark and "list" "Product Types" as tabs. We are on "List"] and these two things. [two lllegible lines - probably about two T shirts]<br />
22.45<br />
Now: this is the administration screen for: Product. But look what we have here. <br />
22.50<br />
Thanks to some of our friends right here in this very room - this is a View! <br />
So, not only can I change the administration screen in any way I want to...<br />
23.00<br />
....but it can display fields in any way that I have added, and I can have multiple administration screens.<br />
This is NOT a private like "Oo yeah: Commerce presents this screen that you have to live with". This is a - you know: this can be a Views Cock Operations. Right now I could turn it into a VDO administration screen. So I won't go there because it's kind of distracting from it, but because this is Views, I can <br />
[changes screen somehow]<br />
go into the wonderfull new Views 3 screen which does some great things like popping up a nice little screen in front of us, instead of below the fold. Oh it is so, so sweet. Um: thank you very much. "Not just me". It really is just absolutely stupendous - it's a great User Interface improvement. <br />
24.00<br />
Views was always good But having this here: we can just configure it. So there we have the admin page and there we can just configure it.. Every list is presented. Remind me to stop-off and see you some time. Every list is presented, in the whole Commerce world, is a view. So that you can do that. Including the checkout pane, and everything else. So.<br />
24.24<br />
OK. So. Now Here we are [on the front page] and we should...<br />
We don't have anything on our front page!<br />
We had that list of products. <br />
I'll go back to the ist of products. <br />
Here it is and I can go and I can <br />
-add new products and <br />
-we can look at it.<br />
But this is an admin interface, and the intent is not that your users would ever directly access product. That's not the intent here. I imagine that some people will figure-out a way to do that, but that is not the way that it is supposed to be done.<br />
22.54<br />
Person: So is there no equivelance to like the Node [inaudible]<br />
So now we are going to make a node display.<br />
25.00<br />
Now we are going to make the Product Display Node, OK, to display these.<br />
So what we are going to do is we are going to go in, and we're just going to go to Node Add<br />
it beats me what he's doing in the blur here<br />
and you see that we have a Product Display Node here. And we're going to say...<br />
We're going to say Red Shirt, display node, something like that.<br />
25.25<br />
"Node? What would you name it, because you don't want the users to see 'node'?"<br />
Yeah. No, I was doing this for you. OK,<br />
25.38<br />
And, you see here on the product list, we have to select the correct product. <br />
We're going to select that product.<br />
And now when I save this, my default presentation is here:<br />
-I've got the picture,<br />
-and I have the add-to-cart button.<br />
25.56<br />
And so the default presentation of the product using the product reference field is to have a - you know, a picture, with an add-to-cart button. There's many other ways that you can present it. You can present it as a SKU; you can do a lot of different things.<br />
I'll just add it to a cart. <br />
And let's go ahead and make the - er: [typing]<br />
Let's go ahead and make the Blue Shirt reference node<br />
26.26<br />
"While you're doing that could you explain the philosophy there? Behind the separation of the setting-up a product entity template kind of thing and of the node that actually shows-up on the screen?"<br />
<br />
Yeah. It was actually one of the greatest limitations of Ubercart - was that you could only display something one way. Like you couldn't have a product that was displayed fifteen different ways on your site. <br />
<br />
"Examples of ways, like, you know: bloc versus a node, or..?"<br />
<br />
No. No, I mean that you might be selling a red T shirt <br />
- in the T shirt category of your site, and also <br />
-selling it in the red category of your site. Or you might be <br />
-selling it in a boutique site that only sells red T shirts. <br />
And you might have a different: - a whole different node presentation, with your nodes having different fields, and all kinds of things, so it gives you an enourmous amount of capability. <br />
You might have a mole site, that used the same products as your regular site, but you want to have different node types, to present. So it give you an enourmous amount of power there. Does that make sense?<br />
27.34<br />
Um: this is actually, um... <br />
This: - Gives People A Lot Of Trouble. <br />
So there's no question about it: this gives people trouble, so it takes some time for people to get used to that. <br />
28.00<br />
"inaudible inaudible lots of different fields that are just not displayed, including references to other things, it could be like if you are representing a book you can have a field representing 'author' and - bla bla bla... and then let them get thrown up by your product?"<br />
<br />
Yes. Yes that's exactly right.<br />
And you can present it a whole bunch of different ways.<br />
You know lots of speciality sites don't just... you know if you go to [inaudible] or something like that ... there's lots of speciality shops that are actually presenting things in context. Like here's the cool product and <br />
-here's why it's cool, and <br />
-here's my big write-up about it, and <br />
-here's my... "customer reviews?" And here's my customer review that goes with it, and this is the customer that...<br />
And that can be it's own node.<br />
And like, a block can have a product reference<br />
<br />
<br />
So, it's a very very powerfull - um: a very very powerfull situation.<br />
<br />
But it does mean that you have to plan for both the <br />
-addition & maintenance of the products, and the <br />
-addition & maintenance of the product display nodes.<br />
And they, you know, take different plans.<br />
29<br />
And the import which we'll do that at the Colorado Importing School: I doubt if that <br />
[inaudible]<br />
"...imports ... product display nodes ... ?"<br />
No.<br />
And we're going to do that in a minute. That's a great question! But we're going to do that in a minute.<br />
<br />
Yes. So you can have the right stuff in the right place and not be duplicating products to do so.<br />
30<br />
[inaudible "three years later" inaudible]<br />
30.25<br />
I want to point out to you. Here we've got this shopping cart bloc over here. Look at that.<br />
It's a view. OK? So I can do anything to that. I can add - I can put a little thumbnail of the item on there. I could do anything I want with that view. I could go in there. And, I don't know whether it ... it probably won't actually want to do this but . You know, I could just add anything I want, right there! I could just fiddle with the View, and change how it works, because it's Views. It's just a great thing.<br />
<br />
[jumping back to 20.26 after other subjects]<br />
So there we've just added two products and two - this is just the bottom, straight-line version of setting up some products:<br />
-we added two products, and <br />
-we added two product display nodes, <br />
to point at them.<br />
Is that - make sense? OK? How are we doing on that? OK.<br />
That's not very hard.<br />
And of course now we want to do -some more things!<br />
31.31<br />
Let me see if I've left things out of my presentation here. <br />
Yes. I did leave a little bit of something out, so:<br />
31.40<br />
Every product is an entity of its own, and it can have fields on it.<br />
So I think that's clear, and we're going to go add: we're going to go add fields to our product in a minute, OK.<br />
Now one of the consequences of this is that every - every unique product, every permutation, is a unique product. Which means that: it's not like you have one product with, you know, red green & blue, and large medium & small on it. You have: that's nine products. Nine products: OK? Nine products with the characteristics of those nine products. And we'll do that in a second.<br />
<br />
But that's very important, and that's one of the things that people ask right away, that is key to that.<br />
32.29<br />
-Only admins go-in and look directly at products. <br />
-Users look at them via product display nodes. OK. <br />
And of course we've seen our wonderfull Views 3 there...<br />
"so there's no concept of attributes or options on products?"<br />
Yeah we're going to do that [inaudible] that's exactly what we're going to do now. Um: so - I'll show you how that works. OK?<br />
32.53<br />
So,<br />
<br />
So here we are. We have this red shirt and this blue shirt, but we want to display them in a different way. We want a drop-down menu to choose small, medium and large, of red and blue. So let's do that. We're going to go into the product: we're going to go into the product type, and we're going to manage the fields on that. And we're going to add a - a size. And that's going to be a list. And we're just going to make a select list where we're just going to make some options. We're working on the product itself now because we're talking about how the product works. <br />
EDIT TAB<br />
PRODUCT SETTINGS<br />
ALLOWED VALUES LIST<br />
So this is going to be small, medium, and large.<br />
34<br />
We want just one value here. That's the allowed value. So that one's good. <br />
[SAVE SETTINGS button at the bottom of the screen clicked]<br />
And now lets add a colour field. <br />
MANAGE FIELDS TAB<br />
[inaudible / typing]<br />
34.23<br />
And this one will be: red, and green, and blue.<br />
[types<br />
redRed<br />
greenGreen<br />
blueBlue]<br />
And [inaudible: clicks a button on the web page]<br />
And here we go. We're not setting a default on it. Which of course we could.<br />
And now our - and now: we're all set with that. So, let's go ahead and... <br />
35<br />
...go back to our products, and edit them!<br />
Go to STORE and PRODUCTS, and: our blue shirt [screen headed Product BLUESHIRT].<br />
We're going to make that one blue, and lets make the size small.<br />
[choosing from drop down menus]<br />
And, the red shirt... actually this works pretty slick! So I'm going to make this one red, and I'm going to make it medium. (And actually I hope the focus group finds it just as slick!).<br />
And actually we only have these two products here so we should probably go back and add some more. <br />
And now lets go over to our product reference node [where?].<br />
And we need to change one thing on EDIT. Because, by default, the product reference was single-valued, and now we are going to make it multi-valued. Because it can have... - it can point to more than one product now. So I am going to say that I can have an unlimited number in here. <br />
36.17<br />
So now, lets go-over and make yet another...<br />
You know that I was saying that you can have more than one way to sell something. But it's the same thing. <br />
...but we still have, um: we still have the blue node and the red node. They're still here. They still work. Everything is fine about them. But I want to make a new one! And this is going to me "small shirts". [he's on a screen called CREATE PRODUCT DISPLAY]<br />
And what we're going to do is we're going to select multiples that can be selected as options here.<br />
37<br />
I should have changed - I should have changed the SKU on these so that it said <br />
[inaudible]<br />
So now we have a cool shirts display node.<br />
And you see: now we can switch between the blue shirt, and the red shirt.<br />
And add-to-cart: this way.<br />
And you'll notice that because there's not more than one kind of blue or red shirt, there's not an option for us to change the size. So let's go ahead and make a ...<br />
37.38<br />
Well, I mean: let me stop there before I run-on.<br />
I'm going to make a couple of more products, so that we can add them to this.<br />
Did what we just did make sense? We did one node, now, that points to two products.<br />
And therefore that it can automatically can present the right picture, and a select [drop down select button] the right picture. With magic Ajax switching - which is cool! <br />
<br />
Did that all make sense? Do you want me to - er - back up on that? Any questions?<br />
<br />
"Can you switch between two products that have different information? And by information I mean all the inputs have to be the same accross all products, like..."<br />
13.20<br />
Like say you put in a different colour of thumbnail [sized picture] - accidentally. Something like that you mean?<br />
<br />
"Yes. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept but I was just wondering if there was a - like:<br />
Like if one of the products has size selection but the other one only comes in medium or whatever. Will all that data change as well?"<br />
<br />
That's why we're going to do that right now. So that's what we're going to do. Any questions before we do that? I think I've answered your question.<br />
<br />
"Actually I've just got one more. It's really a follow-on [question] but...<br />
Is there a way to require selection of the attributes? <br />
39<br />
I think so. [inaudible]<br />
There should be a check-box. [inaudible]<br />
<br />
"I understand that if I have a shirt that comes in three colours, and three sizes, I have to define it nine times?"<br />
<br />
Correct. That is absolutely correct. There will be nine products. That is absolutely correct.<br />
<br />
"And I have to define each one of those individually".<br />
39.25<br />
And you don't do it by hand the way I'm doing it right now. You do it with Commerce Pains, or you do it with Commerce Migrate, or one of the others. There's Commerce Bulk Product Creation (which is actually not in working order right now). But it - you know [that this is pre-release]. So you don't actually do it. You don't actually do it the way I'm doing it because that would take a long time. <br />
<br />
"That's what I was saying!"<br />
<br />
And there's actually another couple of projects out there that I'm aware of that are intended to make that easier for you. OK?<br />
<br />
"So you would, like, upload a spreadsheet or something like that?"<br />
40.00<br />
Like: at the Denver - at the Drupal Camp in Colorado - I'm going to demonstrate how you would do that with<br />
and actually I might succeed in showing you how you could to that after this session if you want to. Bug there's actually a couple of bugs and weeds and actually it needs a couple of patches for it to work right. It's not all there for certain yet. So I decided to tweak the process to show you here. But in that I can download a hundred products off of a feed and then download off the same feed and turn those into product reference nodes. And it all works. I won't say it isn't a little tweaky, but it will work. OK?<br />
47.47<br />
inaudible<br />
41.00<br />
Yes. And there are / there is more than one way to approach that. This is the way it works in [Drupal ]Commerce. So. <br />
41.10<br />
So we're going to add some more permutations. And see how this works.<br />
So we're going to do to >>PRODUCTS and we're going to ADD - more product.<br />
By the way: you see we have product types here?<br />
? being a product type of a product doesn't doesn't mean that it is the only one we can have. If we have things which should have other attributes than size and colour, we can have loads of classes for these in here as well.<br />
<br />
"So it's like when you ...<br />
...product type for 'shirt', and then you have a different product type for 'book', and book would have a SKU ISBN number..."<br />
I think that would be a perfectly reasonable expectation, yes.<br />
42.00<br />
Now I can't remember what I had!<br />
"I think you only had small"<br />
I only had small? Yes: we can do it. If we fail, we just fail. <br />
[filling-in PRODUCT SKU, TITLE, IMAGE, PRICE]<br />
"But that's an interesting question. Is there any kind of validation if you have exactly the same product, and it has exactly the same attributes?"<br />
No.<br />
"Or not?".<br />
Although you could. I'm sure you could figure-out a way to validate that.<br />
<br />
Actually these are not that hard to make, so we can make a blue medium, and use the same picture for it, and this one is going to be $21.99<br />
<br />
<br />
So now lets make the red [types PRODUCT SKU, finds an image] we're getting to expensive shirts now. The red large<br />
<br />
"Is it the title field ... displayed"<br />
<br />
You can<br />
<br />
"not by default?"<br />
<br />
The way we're doing it, it's the node title that's being displayed. So.<br />
"So this title field is only for the admins?"<br />
Yes. <br />
<br />
44<br />
You know what I could do with, I could do with help from that, just to see what I've got.<br />
So I have blue medium and large, and then I have blue who-knows-what, and then I have red who knows what. And who knows what.<br />
<br />
"You know: you already know you could have fields for that"<br />
44.28<br />
Yes. Oh yes. Lets do that.<br />
<br />
I love this, this is so great, I can just type a little bit. Yes. Yes siree. yes.<br />
And we'll add another field which is colour. Is that sweet? That's so sweet. OK: so now we can see what we've got. So now we can see all the things we've added to the admin interface.<br />
<br />
And we've done blue large and medium and small, and we've done red large and medium, and that's all OK. That should work fine. <br />
<br />
So now lets go-see if we've had any sucess with our stuff here. Here's our shirts, but it has the other <br />
46.10<br />
I'm not sure I see<br />
Hey Randy quit the <br />
I've got the same problem. I don't have .... Let's go.<br />
"<br />
46.37<br />
Lets go see if we can go and sort this out. Um. <br />
We're going to go to the -er - the Product display and no we have to make the filed multi-value. That's part of the, um part of the magic here. Just make sure that the field is - that this field is multi-value. <br />
And we should be able to have the choice of blue... You know: of colour, and size. And have it switch for us. And that's what we're not getting. <br />
47.00<br />
Oh! You have to have REQUIRED FIELDS! On the - er<br />
Yuh, this is a piece of magic that shouldn't be that way.<br />
There is an FAQ on Drupalcommerce.org that tells you exactly what to do with this.<br />
But this is <br />
<br />
<br />
47.58<br />
So now we have SMALL and MEDIUM, and we have the proper things that are available there.<br />
And it's in red. How do you get to blue? [answers by selecting from a drop-down menu] And blue has small and medium.<br />
<br />
"Randy did you remember to add all those different products that you created to the display? <br />
You remember there were..."<br />
<br />
Oh I didn't do that! OK. I didn't get'em all in there. And now we're going to select all of these [using control+A to highlight every select option] and that could have been done with autocomplete or whatever. [someone is talking at the same time saying "can you have a VIEW instead of SELECT nodes?"]<br />
<br />
"Randy: where you just were?" [a display of two shirts with the admin view and edit tabs visible], "Can you just like replace that with, certain: like - you know how certain node reference fields can reference like a VIEW of things? Instead of, like, manually selecting? Can you do that here?"<br />
<br />
Lets's see what we can do. I don't know if we can do it here, but I'll bet you that you will be before long.<br />
<br />
So lets go to the CONTENT TYPE. <br />
49.00<br />
So this is just an ordinary CONTENT TYPE, so you go to <br />
CONTENT TYPES > PRODUCT DISPLAY > MANAGE FIELDS<br />
<br />
<br />
...continues trying to answer the question and then finds it not yet solved...<br />
Yup - that's the kind of thing that I am sure will be here in a little time.<br />
49.39<br />
So now we look here and we have all the things that we should have.<br />
We have small medium and large.<br />
In small we have blue and medium.<br />
In medium we have blue and red.<br />
And it switches for us. And we have all those things that we were asking for.<br />
50.00<br />
And <br />
<br />
...we're out of blue mediums. And we can save this to the cart. And this cart is a view, of course. And I can say "checkout. And the checkout page is a view. <br />
"That REMOVE [button on screen] by the way: that is so much better than it was in Ubercart".<br />
Oh yes. And you can actually change that remove [button]. That remove is a Views too. So it we go-in to that, that's just one of the fields that we can have in there, and by default we have a remove button. And a delete button - so: there it is. So we can say [typing] there it is!<br />
<br />
Oh and it didn't work either! Oh and that's the title - the title on top. But you can change the menu button.<br />
<br />
Anyway, so on this page, which is the checkout page, you can just confugure any menus a zillion ways. Do I want this to be a five-page thing? Do I want my modules to add some extra information to the checkout? There's just so much. You can do a whole bunch of things. Like you might want to charge sales tax, which would mean that you would want to get their address before you get to the sales tax calculation. That's all wired-in there. That you can do that, already.<br />
52.00<br />
"So how would you - how would you an eye on sales of stock [inaudible] T shirts, if you've got less than one of them?"<br />
<br />
For a start there is a contributed module called Commerce Stock, and it's actually got an alpha release, and it will prevent you... You can actually display the stock that you're getting: it will let you display the amount of stock that you are gettiong. The customer will see that. It will prevent them from adding-to-cart when [stock] is zero, or below. Not perfect! I doubt that any stock module is perfect. Because, like: when do you decrement [reduce stock by one] it? Do you decrement it at the checkout; do you decrement it at the shipping stage? Those are questions that you know, like the airlines don't know how to solve that problem. They just sell some [plane tickets] and hope it works out! <br />
<br />
52.50<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
"Is the checkout page a view?" Sorry? "Is the checkout page a view?"<br />
Is the checkout page a view. A view. Yes. Here it is. We can just go and fiddle with it right there. <br />
"inaudible ? so the footer is views flexible ?"<br />
Yes. Actually what it has, is you have a footer. <br />
ON A PAGE HEADED DISPLAY, clicks on FOOTER > CONFIGURE FOOTER: COMMERCE ORDER: ORDER total<br />
And in VIEWS 3 you have these - um: what are they called? Like the footer is something provided by the module. The module can provide other footers. So the total calculation is something provided by the ...<br />
"So the shopping cart is provided by the<br />
<br />
<br />
53.41<br />
So the billing information is provided by the module: just that. [shows]<br />
I was talking about the footere here ... [shows]<br />
<br />
53.50<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
[inaudbile?]<br />
Well the way I do it is: actually I have a video on Vimeo and Drupalcommerce.org. I can show you where to find it after the show or you can find it without too much trouble. I have a video showing you how to do an import of the whole product nodes and the product reference nodes. Using the same input fields. Using the same .csv [comma separated values]. Like in my case it's coming from Amazon.com. So you can do it with the same data set. Like in a one-to-one situation, you can do it with the same dataset. [inaudible] Yes, that's exactly what I do to.<br />
<br />
54.52<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
[inaudible question about payment gateways] That's a good question. The Paypal one is in good shape; the authorise.net one is in good shape. There are like a dozen others from various countries of the world. None of them is wholly mature. But the authorize.net one I believe.... I haven't actually tested it. But I my understanding is .... and I don't think they're in bad shape. And a couple of the other ones. I mean, if you look-out on the DrupalCommerce.org page, we have a showcase page where we show some of the sites that are live. It's at Drupalcommerce.org/showcase. It's not fully filled-out yet but there's a list of some of them. And there are some cool ones! And there actually are a couple of write-ups of people building their stores on Drupalcommerce.<br />
<br />
55.57<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
"Is there support yet for recurring billing?" <br />
The recurring billing is not yet implemented. There is a service called Recurring that does recurring billing, and we expect that to be implemented within the next few weeks. No promised. Because there is a lot of paperwork!<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
"...roles...access to content....editing content?"<br />
You know, because it's all wired-in - I didn't even show you RULES [module] and how this integrates with rules, but when we checked-out [in our demonstration], we could have granted a role to somebody, which is one of the ways of solving all those things that you're talking about. That's: if a role is the appropriate way to do it you could do it with a role and private files for example. I actually haven't explored that whole terretory. <br />
57.00<br />
But I have explored RULES in some depth, and you can do a lot of crazy stuff when you get on good terms with rules - you can really do a lot of crazy stuff! If you're writing code. You know people say: Oh - Rules. You know. You're writing code and they don't know how to write code. Well that's balloney! You're writing code. You happen to be writing it in a web browser. And you do have to understand the language of rules. But it is crazy good stuff, and if you keep it simple and you keep within the range where you understand what's going-on, then it works pretty well.<br />
<br />
I guess that's how the whole commerce stock module works. Commerce stock provides the default rules, so that when the inventory level goes below something: something hits. It watches the bottom. That's a rule, that you can actually change-up.<br />
<br />
58.00<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
"...bundles?..." Bundles is a work in progress.<br />
<hr align="LEFT><br />
" br="" can="" checkout="" complete="" the="" you="" />Can you complete the checkout? I'll try. <br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><br />
"what about donation - so I can put an open field so I can put whatever I want in, for a donation?"<br />
58.55<br />
[concentrates on the screen and finishing the checkout]<br />
[then the https://www.ioby.org website from the list of completed websites on drupalcommece.org and looks to see how they do donations]<br />
1hour - example donation <br />
I don't actually know how they're doing it but they're doing it.<br />
Then shows the usual background points on a chart - bigger, better, different etc etc<br />
One point says an "Entity driven architecture based on Views and Rules"<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-6007642984730862772011-11-26T15:49:00.003+00:002018-10-21T10:25:14.618+01:00Acquia Drupal installer: does it ever work?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><br />
<div style="clear: right; cssfloat: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;">.</div><br />
So why mention the first two if there is a perfect answer? I suspect a trap. There are three pages on these lines according to links at the bottom of <a href="https://drupal.org/node/263">https://drupal.org/node/263</a>. Which traps worst?<br />
<br />
I've had this problem before but didn't write it down. Use the installer that the free Lynda.com video says is easiest:<br />
<a href="http://www.acquia.com/downloads">http://www.acquia.com/downloads</a><br />
Click on "Dev Desktop" and "RUN", agreeing to everything but their XMail server<br />
Get<br />
<i>Folder .... not found ... please select an existing folder</i>; do so<br />
Get <i> </i><br />
<i>Error reading file C:/Program Files/acquia-drupal/AcqiaDevDesktopControlPanel/Static.ini</i><br />
I've had this before and forgotten the cause. Google it:<br />
<i>Your search - <b>C:/Program Files/acquia-drupal/AcqiaDevDesktopControlPanel/Static.ini</b> - did not match any documents. </i><br />
<i></i><br />
Try saving the file before running it.<br />
Get<br />
<i>Error reading file C:/Program Files/acquia-drupal/AcqiaDevDesktopControlPanel/Static.ini</i><br />
Try googling <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=Aquia+Drupal+install+Windows+XP&pbx=1&oq=Aquia+Drupal+install+Windows+XP&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1625l1625l0l2313l1l1l0l0l0l0l328l328l3-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=30879d0b5961a47b&biw=1187&bih=827">Aquia Drupal install Windows XP</a> and find that there is a forum on it with 400 posts, many of them unanswered. Obscure references to trying to tidy-up your registry after a messy uninstall of this program in order to trick it into thinking it is starting again for the fist time when you have another try. Is this worth persuiing? No.<br />
[afterthought: try Revo uninstaller to do a thorough removal of anything related to previous installs. Double click the blue drip icon of the downloaded installer again. Same problem.]<br />
<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/749846" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/749846"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/749846</span></a><br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/161975" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/161975"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/161975</span></a> <br />
<div jquery1322332781609="10"><a href="https://drupal.org/node/307956" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/307956"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/307956</span></a></div><br />
<br />
How to go about this a different way?<br />
Last time I googled for different installers and found LAMP looked likely.<br />
What's puzzling is that some people - including writers of textbooks and help videos - have no problem at all and do not see how there could be one. Others post over 400 times on a help forum without result.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/documentation/install/windows">https://drupal.org/documentation/install/windows</a><br />
...suggests LAMP as an installer for windowsXP, and one of the people in the apache friends who wrote it wears a dog collar which makes this look like my kind of program.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/263"><i>Windows-Specific Guidelines - Install Drupal On Home Computer (Local).</i></a><i> (</i><a href="https://drupal.org/node/263"><i>https://drupal.org/node/263</i></a><i>) </i><br />
<i>...suggests two server installers that already have Drupal on them</i><br />
<i></i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li><a href="http://bitnami.org/stack/drupal" rel="nofollow"><span style="color: #0678be;"><i>BitNami Drupal Stack</i></span></a><i> </i></li><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjCJpogLo-OOm6QvJu_fAzeDPOQUhXjjw0eYf35bFes-FJabTufOwkyRU_QK5NsRy3YCksT_A1cbFxFmNtH3txhrhQZE39A_4-erWgiAMNZiXiwZ2QZVsEbso0fgMKI0SZvZEFixXlhPtfG/s1600/450px-Camel-whiteman%255B3%255D.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" hda="true" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjCJpogLo-OOm6QvJu_fAzeDPOQUhXjjw0eYf35bFes-FJabTufOwkyRU_QK5NsRy3YCksT_A1cbFxFmNtH3txhrhQZE39A_4-erWgiAMNZiXiwZ2QZVsEbso0fgMKI0SZvZEFixXlhPtfG/s320/450px-Camel-whiteman%255B3%255D.jpg" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Camel shrinks wheelbarrow</td></tr>
</tbody></table><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<li><a href="http://developer.spikesource.com/wiki/index.php/SpikeWAMP" rel="nofollow"><span style="color: #0678be;"><i>SpikeWAMP</i></span></a><a href="http://www.blogger.com/"></a></li><br />
<br />
<br />
<i>If you are bewildered by all these options, just want some nice easy instructions to follow, go and have a look at </i><a href="https://drupal.org/node/307956" rel="nofollow"><i>Simple install of Drupal on XAMPP</i></a><i>. Trying out Drupal on your Windows machine couldn't be easier.</i> <br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/749846" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/749846"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/749846</span></a><br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/node/161975" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/161975"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/161975</span></a> <br />
<div jquery1322332781609="10"><a href="https://drupal.org/node/307956" rel="nofollow" title="https://drupal.org/node/307956"><span style="color: #0678be;">https://drupal.org/node/307956</span></a> </div><div jquery1322332781609="10">My strategy is to attempt the simplest most standard and basic package holiday install of Ubercart on Drupal 7, hack-around the problems of posting to three different postage zones, and see what happens. So I should try BitNami Drupal Stack and then SpikeWAMP, whatever they are. Do you picture them as camels or is it just me? Something about the spikey names.</div><div jquery1322332781609="10"><br />
</div><div jquery1322332781609="10"><b>Bitnami</b></div><div jquery1322332781609="10">is a spiky name. The thing installed with one option about whether I wanted Drupal. Yes. There was a brief error message with no explanation at all saying that port80 was being used. Everyone at Bitnami knows the numbers of ports and their significance and assumes that Bitnami users do too. I typed in "81", thinking that ports seemed to go in numerical order.</div><div jquery1322332781609="10"><br />
</div><div jquery1322332781609="10"><b><i>"https://John:81 Windows cannot find </i><a href="http://john:81/"><i>http://john:81</i></a><i> . Make sure that you have typed the name correctly, and then try again. To search for a file, click the start button and then click search"</i></b></div><div jquery1322332781609="10"><br />
</div><div jquery1322332781609="10">Well balls to Bitnami. Now time to try SikeWamp. Which was a free open source project of a company now taken over by black duck I find from the link. Finding the installer will he harder than persuading a camel to darn my socks with a needle, although to be fair camels are dumb and lack fingers.<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" /></div><br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kJYSaHyW760/TtJvbO4j6NI/AAAAAAAAMfA/NSeZ26b6c0I/s800/john%2525202011-11-27%25252017-10-37.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="214" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kJYSaHyW760/TtJvbO4j6NI/AAAAAAAAMfA/NSeZ26b6c0I/s320/john%2525202011-11-27%25252017-10-37.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>Bitnami: will you forget I said anything rude? <br />
<br />
SpikeWAMP proves impossible to track down.<br />
<br />
Also, I have discovered likely looking files to start in your directory, which look related to the Drupal Bitnami I downloaded and installed. Click some likely files and a screen appears with "Access Bitnami Drupal Stack as the first option on the page. Click on that and something like a Drupal site hosted on my hard disc appears.<br />
<br />
I have tried to turn off as many things on my control+alt+delete list as I can in case one of them was using the same port, or birth, or bus or whatever it is. Something worked. I have also googled Port80 and discovered that typing <i>netstat -o 1</i> into the <i>run</i> box of the start menu is meant to tell me what software uses what port. It doesn't tell me anything I understand, but there's satisfaction to be had in getting that far - particularly the final <i>1</i> which repeats the process each second instead of dissapearing after one second.<br />
<br />
</div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div><br />
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-2358743603131517312011-11-26T15:28:00.002+00:002018-10-21T10:25:16.023+01:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">I have made the decision: Drupal Commerce does not yet work for me. After months of patience with phrases like "straight out of the box" and demonstrations on equipment different from what a shopkeeper would use, I am going back to Ubercart. Drupal 7 is so big that it needs a database upload rather than a one-click install from a server gizmo. So I install Aquia Drupal stack installer and the first thing it does, even before properly installed, is come-up with a puzzling error message. Vaguely familiar. This is where a diary helps. <br />
<hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-522812146234694162011-10-01T23:26:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:25:17.473+01:00http://www.vimeo.com/22748684 How you can build a taxonomy based catalog<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><a href="https://vimeo.com/22748684">https://vimeo.com/22748684</a> 30/02/2011<br />
Hullo everybody, this is Ryan Szrama with Commerce Guys. I wanted to show you today <b><u>how you can build a taxonomy-based product catalog in drupal commerce</u> </b>as I have done on my demo website: <a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/" title="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/">http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/</a><br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="388" mozallowfullscreen="" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/22748684" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="500"></iframe> <br />
<br />
If you look over here in my sidbar you will see that I have a catalog Block that lists out [<i>"coffee holders", "conference swag", and "wearables"</i>]<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">catalog catagories that are actually </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><a href="https://drupal.org/node/774892">taxonomy terms</a> linking them to their </span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;">taxonomy term Pages:</span><br />
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders" title="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders">http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders</a><br />
[<i>this shows differently on the video because it shows the site when logged-on as admin. For admin, the term page shows a coffee holder with two tabs, "view" "edit", a paragraph describing the coffee mug and an add-to-cart form with a drop-down list, that moves your page from the one about black mugs to white mugs</i>]<br />
Term Pages in Drupal 7 have been enhanced a little bit, allowing you to<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>specify custom urls, [<i>eg coffee-holders</i>] allowing you to </li>
<li>display a discription on a page, and giving you </li>
<li>both a view and a quick edit link here to edit the Taxonomy Term settings.</li>
</ul>This particular one - Coffee Holders - has the description and it shows all of my -er different coffee holder products on the demo website.<br />
This [<i>"read more" link under the mug picture</i>] is just a Node Teaser List of product display nodes. The product display node being a special node type that I've made that has both a<br />
♦ Product Reference Field on it, that turns into this handy dynamic Add To Cart Form, and then it also has a<br />
♦ Taxonomy Term Reference Field on it,<br />
which you can see here lets me to tag this node with a particular taxonomy term and links it back to its term page.<br />
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug" title="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug">http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug</a><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
1 Create a taxonomy vocabulary</span><br />
<br />
Now if you wanted to build something like this yourself, the first thing you would need to do, is to create a taxonomy vocabulary for your catalog:<br />
example.com/catalog/coffee-holders/mug#overlay=admin/structure/taxonomy<br />
admin>structure>taxonomy>edit vocabulary [<i>pictures at about 1'24" on the video</i>]<br />
So you can see here my catalog vocabulary, and if we look at the terms I've listed, my three terms are each present, and each one of them has<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li>a name, </li>
<li>a description, and </li>
<li>a custom url alias that just provides a nice search engine friendly url for this term page on the front.</li>
</ul><span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
2 Go build a menu; enable a bloc</span><br />
<br />
Once you've listed out each of your taxonomy terms, the next step is to go build a menu for this.<br />
So I'm going to go to stucture>menus, and you can see here that I have a catalog menu, where I have manually added links to each of the term pages.<br />
[<i>screen shows remembered "search engine friendly url" typed into the box. This can be found by going back to >structure>taxonomy>edit vocabulary to cut-and-paste</i>]<br />
Er - Whenever you create these links you can actually use the search engine friendly path that you have defined, and whenever you save this menu link, it will be converted to the actual Drupal path that has been assigned to that taxonomy term.<br />
Whenever you create a menu you automatically get a block, that you can then enable, to show that menu in any of your sidebars. Here ...<br />
structure>blocks [<i>first option on the structure tab</i>]<br />
...you can see my catalog menu block has been placed into the first sidebar. This is a region in the Corolla theme <i>which now has to be installed after Adaptive Themes Core. Once installed it has a tab on the blocks menu. From that tab you see the options shown in the video, where shopping cart, catalog, user menu and user login are all selected for the first sidebar</i>, and I've configured this bloc...<br />
[<i>from the "configure" link on the "catalog" line</i>]<br />
...to not appear on checkout pages - notice I've used checkout asterisk so it will block all of the checkout pages, so that whenever you go to checkout and are in any step of the checkout process, er you do not have a sidebar. I did this to reduce distraction and noise on the checkout form so that the customer doesn't have distraction and when they're trying to complete the checkout process and give you their nolas.<br />
Once you have<br />
♦ built the taxonomy vocabulary,<br />
♦ the menu item,<br />
♦ put your bloc in place...<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
3 Create a Product node type</span><br />
<br />
the next step is to actually have nodes showing-up in your teaser lists. Drupal Commerce will install a default product type whenever you first enable everything.<br />
store>products <i>second tab is "product type"</i><br />
On this demo site I also have a T shirt product type, um, for my T-shirt products, er: I'll discuss that in a different screencast [<i>about sized products</i>].<br />
Once you have product types though, the next step is to create a <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/node/294">product display node type</a>. So I'm going to go to my Content Types menu.<br />
structure>content type <i>second option on the structure list</i><br />
You see here I have a product display node type, and the reason being: even though I have product types in the back end, I can list out all the products on my website on the back end, there is no automatic point of display for them on the front end. We've separated-out the front end from the back end in Drupal Commerce, er so that you have a lot more freedom to detirmine how you want to display products to your customers. Whether it's through product display nodes as I am , or some other method involving Views, or Pagemanager and Panels, or something else entirely!<br />
If we look at the fields that I have put on this product display node type, you can see both my product reference field, and my [<i>Taxonomy</i>] Term reference field.<br />
I like the autocomplete textfield wiget...<br />
<a href="https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets" title="https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets">https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets</a><br />
...because it lets me enter products on this node, using the product SKU with the product title with an autocomplete. And I can have as many as I want to, without having to bother with the multi-select select list, or perhaps just an overwhelming checkboxes list if you have many products on the website.<br />
I also have a catalog catagory term reference select list.<br />
So what you do is:<br />
whenever you add a term reference field, you have to choose which vocabulary this is for, and then of course the widget select list autocomplete radios [<i>radio buttons</i>] so that on the product page - which I'll go to this right now - um so that on its edit form, you get to specify how exactly... - I'm denoting which catalog catagory this belongs to. So you can see here my Product Reference Field with the autocomplete, my catalog term reference field with the select list, and again how this is presented on the front end, with an add to cart form, and a link going back to the term page.<br />
Well those are all the things that you need to know, to build your taxonomy based drupal commerce product catalog. Let me pull-up a .pdf here that shows you the different steps: [the order is slightly different on the .pdf]<br />
♦ Create a "Catalog" taxonomy vocabulary, with terms for each of your categories.<br />
♦ Create a "Product display" node type using a product reference field and a term reference field, and create nodes for your products.<br />
♦ Create a "Cataolog" menu and display its block.<br />
♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦<br />
<a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/node/583">forum thread</a></div><hr align="LEFT" /><div style="text-align: right;"><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div></div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-71737191243574798932011-10-01T19:14:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:25:18.877+01:00Mid 2011: First look at Drupal Commerce. Where are the instructions?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
I downloaded and installed Drupal Commerce when it was still in Beta: that's how cool I am when it comes to bragging but not when it comes to results. The gap between me and results is an instruction book, and I see on Amazon that nobody has dared write one yet.<br />
<br />
Why?<br />
<br />
Products and Views are different in Commerce. Or something more accurately stated along the same lines. OK I get the general idea but anyone on a video or writing an explanation of Drupal Commerce seems to get stuck on this point and not state how to cope with it. A bit as though Sea France staff stood at the harbour and said <i>"the thing you have to realise is that there is a water-filled channel to cross between the UK and France and that is what makes a ferry company so good compared to other forms of transport"</i>. Sea France are a bit like that in real life. Book a ticket. No ship. When you get a ship it is really good if you bring your own loo paper but they are a nationalised industry, not a staff owned company, and solving problems is not their job. If you want cheap tickets on ferries, <a href="http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/employees">why not open an account at a cashback site first? For effect, I will pretend not to be biassed by the chance of a tiny referral payment</a>. Once on the cashback site the deal is from Ferrycheap, although there might be better offers on other parts of the net. The salads on Sea France ships are good.<br />
<br />
A difference between nationalised ferry companies and open source software companies is that people like the software companies.Which is odd because buying a ship and doing the human resources and payroll and acounts would take a lot of paperwork I think, while software should be a bit easier, but people like software companies so much they go to events in London (Croyden) and clap. A few hundred quid to go to Drupal London, then more to see Drupal Commerce. Surely nobody who pays for their own ticket would go to such a thing. Stranger still, in video-speeches that are online, people clap when something good is said about Commerce. All the people who front the show look intelligent, industrious, self-critical, and even nice to meet but I don't usually clap when such a person gives a lecture about something you hoped-for like a ship that is not quie available. Maybe there are Apple users in the crowd who think the whole world works like Apple with wierd gushing enthusiasm and not a lot of criticism. Maybe it's because the USA never had the First World War to such a big extent that there are so many non-cynical people there. Good luck to them.<br />
<br />
Another way of looking at it is that not enough people say <i>"thank you"</i> to producers in other industries; we are too used to getting it all from China. Maybe people really do clap when a Sea France ferry arrives on time, but people don't appreciate local producers who are offering a fair price but can't pay for advertising as the china import corporations can, even though they pay their taxes employ our offspring and in good years might respond to local demand. I hope to release a thing called a Blackspot T Shirt onto the market soon via <a href="http://crowdfunder.co.uk/">Crowdfunder.co.uk</a> - watch this space.<br />
<br />
Note to self: <i>"The Source is invalid. Cannot connect to the database. The Source is invalid. Cannot connect to the database. Unable to connect to any of the sepcified MySQL hosts"</i>.
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-4572717187706977712011-10-01T18:21:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:25:20.261+01:00the world in three parts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
More on this subject at <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html">https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-tourist-guide-to-royal-mail-and-small.html</a> <br />
<br />
Julius Caeser write that Gall is divided into three parts, and Royal Mail has done the same for world postal zones (or four if you are fussy), so come the new year 20010/11 I thought I had found a way to do the same for Drupal and Ubercart. Take three of the existing hundred or more countries. My home country is the UK. That's already known to Ubercart. Europe and Airmail are the others.<br />
<br />
Now, if I over-ran two obscure countries in the code of Ubercart and renamed them "Europe" and "Airmail" and deleted all the others I would be happy. I chose Andorra and American Samoa, because I thought the invasions would go un-noticed, and had a test site more or less working. There was no need to understand the code to be hacked - just a bit of patience finding it and some trial and error. According to the code, these countries were still Andora and American Samoa, but they were printed on screen as Europe and Airmail.<br />
<br />
By 2011, Drupal 7 was finished but Drupal Commerce - ubercart's successor - was only starting so it seemed worth a little bit of a wait to see how the new program tidied-up the problem.</div>
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-62684137527985551362011-10-01T18:03:00.004+01:002018-10-21T10:25:22.080+01:00uk unemployment 1980s<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
This post might become a transcript of a 1980s UK economics textbook chapter, done in order to see whether the book deliberately lied or deliberately mis-led about the government's effect on the recession at that time or whether it just failed to win my confidence. I think it just failed to win confidence. The chapter is headed "26 Unemployment", which is an odd place in a textbook to put the chapter on unemployment when the total was three or four milllion in 1984 when the book was published. There was no chapter called "why all the factories are closing", but there was a rather technical reference, even later in the book, which described the closure process caused by government's policy on interest rates that tweaked the exchange rate.<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html"></a> </fieldset>
</blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<fieldset>
Related: <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-economics-courses-for-twenty-teens.html"><u>Bad Economics Teaching for the twenty-teens</u></a> from data on Unistats, 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2016/01/better-economnics-teaching.html">Better Economics Teaching</a>: some off-the-cuff suggestions based on being a 1980s student <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economic-crisis.html">The British Economic Crisis</a> - a similar book to Robert Peston written in the 80s - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/11/star-courses.html">Star Courses</a>: the least satisfied, most bored and lowest paid UK graduates, written 2015 <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">Boring Economics Teaching is interesting</a>:
how someone managed to teach economics from memories of an old
textbook at the peak of the worst recession since the 1930s, and tried
to cover-up for government causing the recession. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2012/10/leslie-fishman-writings.html">Journal Articles by Professor Les Fishman</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/p/economics.html">unbelievable beliefs</a> - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2017/02/1980s-recession.html">1980s recession explanations I wrot</a>e - <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-search-for-one-click-install.html">UK unemployment 1980s from the Begg 1984 textbook</a></fieldset>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<br />
In the early 1930s, more than one quarter of the UK labour force was unemployed. In particular regions and occupations the unemployment rate was very much higher. [employment of economics teachers was hardly effected at all]. High unemployment means that the economy is throwing away output by failing to put its people to work. It also means misery, social unrest, and hopelessness for the unemployed. Over the following 40 years, macroeconomic policy was geared to avoiding a rerun of the 1930s. Figure 26-1 shows that it succeeded.<br />
<br />
In the 1970s views about unemployment bagan to change. People began to reject the Keynsian pessimism about the capacity of the economy to respond to shocks by quickly restoring full employment. The classical model began to be more widely accepted as a description of the way the economy works even in the relatively short run. Since in the classical model unemployment is voluntary there is less presumption that unemployment means extreme human suffering. Moreover, research by labour economists has shown that in the 1950s and 1960s most of the unemployed quickly found jobs. Unemployment might therefore be considered a stepping stone to a better job.<br />
<br />
By the 1970s, not only was it felt that the cost of unemployment might have been overstated; in addition, governments in many countries began to percieve an even greater danger to economic and social stability, the danger of high and rising inflation. Thus by the end of the 1970s many governments had embarked on tight monetary and fiscal policies into try to keep inflation under control. The combination of restrictive demand policies and the adverse supply shock of hte second major OPEC oil price increase in 1979-80 has led to a dramatic increase in unemployment in most of the industrial countries in the early 1980s. Figure 26-1 shows data for the UK. Data for other countries are shown later in the chapter.<br />
<br />
High unemployment is one of the major problems of the 1980s. Will it contine? Is it a drain on society or a signal that iat lst people are getting out of dead end jobs into something better? What can and should the government be doing? These are the questions we set out to answer in this chapter. We begin by looking at the facts.<br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
26-1 THE FACTS</h3>
<a name='more'></a>Not everyone wants a job. Those who do are called the labour force.<br />
The <i>participation rate</i> is the percentage of the population of working age who declare themselves to be in the labour force. In Chapter 10 we pointed out that postwar growth of the UK labour force had been caused by an increase in the population of working age who declare themselves to be in the labour force. In Chapter10 we pointed out that postwar growth iof the UK labour force has been caused less by an increase in the population of working age than by an increase on paricipation rates, most noticably by married women.<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="color: #990000;">The unemployment rate is the percentage of the labour foce who are withoug a job but are registered as being willing and vailable for work.</span></blockquote>
Of course some people without a job are really looking for work but have not bothered to register as unemployed. These people will not be included in the official statistics for the registered labour forcem nor will they appear as registered unemployed. Yet from an economic viewpoint, such people <i>are</i> unemployed. This is an important phenominon to which we return shortly. For the momentm when we present evidence on the size of the labour force or the number of people unemployedm it should be undestood that data refer to the registered labour force and the registered unemployed.<br />
<br />
Figure 26-1 makes two main points about the unemployment rate in the UK. <br />
First, unemployment was high during the interwar years, especially during the great recession of the 1930s. It was the persistance of unemployment that led Keynes to develop his <i>General Theory</i>.<br />
Second, by comparison, post war unemployment was tiny until the late 1970s. By the early 1980s it was starting to get back to prewar levels. This basic pattern applies in many other industrialised countries. [I doubt this is true - JR]<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #990000;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Stocks and Flows</span></span></h4>
Unemployment is a stock concept measured at a point in time. Like a pool of water, its level rises when inflows (the newly unemployed) exceed outflows (people getting new jobs or quitting t he labour force altogether). Figure 26-2 illustrates this important idea. Beginning with people working, there arc three ways to become unemployed. Some people are sacked or made redundant (job-losers); some are temporarily laid off but expect eventually to be rehired by the same company; and sonic people voluntarily quit their existing jobs. But the inflow to unemployment can also come from people not previously in the labour force: school-leavers (new entrants), and people who once had a job, then ceased even to register as unemployed, and are now coming back into the labour force in search of a job (re-entrants). People leave the unemployment pool in the opposite directions. Some get jobs. Others give up looking for jobs and leave the labour force completely. Although some of this latter group may simply have reached the retirement age at which they can draw a pension, many of them are discouraged workers, people who have become depressed about the prospects of ever finding a job and decide to stop even trying. Between January 1980 and January 1983, the number of people registered as unemployed in Britain rose from 1.3 million to 3.1 million. Data collected through Department of Employment <br />
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhw4QA4NEv5LqQvtP8lxeLGTUHTtSUquZbZrPXmeFJhPmrZXz8rTcMwscw1B1uAgvrkQ6YX5XchHm6zWM-NkvX5w4VSKSyT9xYW95u29KLyMQwIGOJ_0A-C_BmCiPvTYSSEuTFMdmCTV4_D/s1600/scan178.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhw4QA4NEv5LqQvtP8lxeLGTUHTtSUquZbZrPXmeFJhPmrZXz8rTcMwscw1B1uAgvrkQ6YX5XchHm6zWM-NkvX5w4VSKSyT9xYW95u29KLyMQwIGOJ_0A-C_BmCiPvTYSSEuTFMdmCTV4_D/s640/scan178.jpg" width="446" /></a><br />
<br />
jobccntres account for most of this increase and .11 shown in Table 26-1. The table makes the 1)( wit that the pool of unemployment is not skignant. Even with 3 million unemployed, this tit her is less than the number of people entering and leaving the pool every year.<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSn8IGaleFGP2AGaa1sS1pkMDoAE-aNpP_fP5h5eFLDEEwOEUz02-crn12LzE1K3kV_xenCrNbfEg3rfNpURwajgC_kxToLjd1bwnA-uL-tDekKKEerQMGHdwJxJkHYTLc3LvqHNgNTj7J/s1600/scan180.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="294" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSn8IGaleFGP2AGaa1sS1pkMDoAE-aNpP_fP5h5eFLDEEwOEUz02-crn12LzE1K3kV_xenCrNbfEg3rfNpURwajgC_kxToLjd1bwnA-uL-tDekKKEerQMGHdwJxJkHYTLc3LvqHNgNTj7J/s640/scan180.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I I )nr.itioll thiciiiplovnicnt When un-employment is high, people have to spend longer in the pool before they find a way out. <br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSsEruOe1TQKaDjPwUHPtxkUXIeLjOXEivH-wtaPg6CE1R5MU28yDKDlXP9kN1sGVP48VM-GmzFGFmHY40KUAImPb9Xkprx6syZjg8Nbciq1xxWi36rV-LjjqiKEMC8BkiFob-pabq7tsA/s1600/scan182.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="246" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSsEruOe1TQKaDjPwUHPtxkUXIeLjOXEivH-wtaPg6CE1R5MU28yDKDlXP9kN1sGVP48VM-GmzFGFmHY40KUAImPb9Xkprx6syZjg8Nbciq1xxWi36rV-LjjqiKEMC8BkiFob-pabq7tsA/s640/scan182.jpg" width="640" /></a>Table 26-2 gives data on the duration of unemployment. As the level of unemployment has risen, the problem of the long-term unemployed has returned. Whereas in 1974 only 20 per cent of the people unemployed had been out of work for longer than one year, by April 1983 this pro-portion had risen to 36 per cent. And over the same period, the fraction of the unemployed who had been unemployed for less than eight weeks fell from 44 to 17 per cent. Unemployment can no longer be regarded as a temporary stopover on the way to better things. <br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEighLP_drtzqyIivEmZX-cinch6jXkO4qzI5KE56W6OBrDlLx86pXYJN7t88oVBsoEE-2zuXkFnw62q2xkOTW8MiB91vOsTYV-v20d6WMuWaCIYReZ_7txC63Bi3K8vuTjmsZGvTWhchyphenhyphensh/s1600/scan187.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="354" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEighLP_drtzqyIivEmZX-cinch6jXkO4qzI5KE56W6OBrDlLx86pXYJN7t88oVBsoEE-2zuXkFnw62q2xkOTW8MiB91vOsTYV-v20d6WMuWaCIYReZ_7txC63Bi3K8vuTjmsZGvTWhchyphenhyphensh/s640/scan187.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
The Composition of Unemployment Table 26-3 gives a recent breakdown of unemployment by sex and by age. A recession hits young workers badly. Unlike established workers with accumulated skills and job experience, young workers have to be trained from scratch, and firms frequently cut back on training when times are tough. The over-50s are also vulner-able during a recession. If they lose their existing job, they will find it tough to persuade a firm to spend on them what little training money is available; firms would rather spend the money on younger workers, who may represent a better long-term investment and may be able to learn more quickly. Table 26-3 also shows that the unemployment rate is lower for women than for men. In part this may reflect the fact that employment in the declining heavy engineering industries has tradi-tionally been predominantly male, so men are worst hit by redundancies in steelworks and shipyards. However, although established women have managed to hang on to their jobs, young women are finding it nearly as tough as young men to get started. Labour economists believe that the discrepancy between male and female workers is smaller than the table suggests, because unemployed women are less likely than unemployed men to register as unemployed. Hence the true un-employment rates for women are probably higher than the table suggests. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjCkFT1FMkU7E07VNP5m5xBWzN9oBYMLvYsSkwmLGTK5o12WrxCA8wJtfSTGleBw-QZLAQJxeP_XXSCrdkcB5HIRtN4HY640MzgJ7cXAx4_3ICvdEHrau8BSvm-ufV1xaqahpxwOpUYhlKp/s1600/scan187.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="474" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjCkFT1FMkU7E07VNP5m5xBWzN9oBYMLvYsSkwmLGTK5o12WrxCA8wJtfSTGleBw-QZLAQJxeP_XXSCrdkcB5HIRtN4HY640MzgJ7cXAx4_3ICvdEHrau8BSvm-ufV1xaqahpxwOpUYhlKp/s640/scan187.jpg" width="640" /></a>26-2 THE FRAMEWORK </h3>
<br />
Having introduced some of the most important facts about unemployment in the UK, we now develop a theoretical framework in which to discuss the subject. We begin with the old-style classification of types of unemployment, which emphasizes the source of the problem. Then we discuss the modern approach to unemployment which emphasizes the way people in the labour market are behaving. <br />
Types of Unemployment Economists used to classify unemployment a frictional, structural, demand-deficient, or clamp ical. We discuss each in turn. <br />
<br />
Frictional Unemployment <br />
This is the irredrit ible minimum level of unemployment in .1 dynamic society. It includes people wIr.)4e physical or mental handicaps make them aim, 'NI unemployable, but it also includes the pc(11►1, spending short spells in unemployment Ir. ■ hop between jobs in an economy where b( )111 r h. labour force and the jobs on offer are cont in tr.111‘ changing. <br />
<br />
Structural Unemployment <br />
In the longer run, the pattern of demand and production is alwir‘ 4 changing. In Chapter 31 we discuss the re.r,...114 why particular countries in the world CC(111411M come to specialize in the production of 1).11 ticular commodities at particular times. In re, (Au decades industries such as textiles and heavy engineering have been declining in the UK, Structural unemployment refers to unemployment arising because there is a mismatch oi and job opportunities when the pAtIci II of <br />
<br />
Itint.t i id and production changes. For example, a 44111C(I welder may have worked for 25 years in %Ittplwilding but is made redundant at 50 when the industry contracts in the face of foreign competition. That worker may have to retrain in it new which is more in demand in today's et 'II( )111y. But firms may be reluctant to take on mid it din older workers. Such workers become victims of structural unemployment. <br />
<br />
Demand-deficient Unemployment <br />
This refers Keynesian unemployment, when aggregate dentaild falls and wages and prices have not yet 'Owed to restore full employment. Aggregate Jett l id is deficient because it is lower than full-iv merit aggregate demand. In chapter 25 we saw that, until wages and have adjusted to their new long-run equilibrium level, a fall in aggregate demand will lead lower output unemployment. Some workers will want to work at the going real wage rate but will he unable to find jobs. Only in the longer run ill wAr,e,, And prices fall enough to boost the <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibx6jGbNe4IyfZaIUQAQjaefkQYM4uqbPML3qCbUh7EXTXiBnH2oKaH9R_4DydgKAcxmZheJ6BO8GXlw6hkYzn6BZdZRZduK_GgsH03yEcWY0pn-BQyY-3eskNYKIlszbhJkesfx5Upgux/s1600/scan191.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br />
</a></div>
<br />
real money supply and lower interest rates to the extent required to restore aggregate demand to its full-employment level, and only then will demand-deficient unemployment be eliminated. <br />
Classical Unemployment Since the classical model assumes that flexible wages and prices maintain the economy at full employment, classi-cal economists had some difficulty explaining the high unemployment levels of the 1930s. Their diagnosis of the problem was partly that union power was maintaining the wage rate above its equilibrium level and preventing the required adjustment from occurring. Classical unemployment describes the unemployment created when the wage is deliberately maintained above the level at which the labour supply and labour demand schedules intersect. It can be caused either by the exercise of trade union power or by minimum wage legislation which enforces a wage in excess of the equilibrium wage rate. The modern analysis of unemployment takes <br />
<br />
<br />
the same types of unemployment but classifies them rather differently in order to highlight their behavioural implications and consequences for government policy. Modern analysis stresses the difference between voluntary and involuntary unemployment. <br />
<br />
The Natural Rate of Unemployment Figure 26-3 shows the market for labour. The labour demand schedule LD slopes downwards, showing that firms will take on more workers at a lower real wage. The schedule LF shows how <br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSsEruOe1TQKaDjPwUHPtxkUXIeLjOXEivH-wtaPg6CE1R5MU28yDKDlXP9kN1sGVP48VM-GmzFGFmHY40KUAImPb9Xkprx6syZjg8Nbciq1xxWi36rV-LjjqiKEMC8BkiFob-pabq7tsA/s1600/scan182.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br />
</a></div>
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibx6jGbNe4IyfZaIUQAQjaefkQYM4uqbPML3qCbUh7EXTXiBnH2oKaH9R_4DydgKAcxmZheJ6BO8GXlw6hkYzn6BZdZRZduK_GgsH03yEcWY0pn-BQyY-3eskNYKIlszbhJkesfx5Upgux/s1600/scan191.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibx6jGbNe4IyfZaIUQAQjaefkQYM4uqbPML3qCbUh7EXTXiBnH2oKaH9R_4DydgKAcxmZheJ6BO8GXlw6hkYzn6BZdZRZduK_GgsH03yEcWY0pn-BQyY-3eskNYKIlszbhJkesfx5Upgux/s640/scan191.jpg" width="350" /></a><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
many people want to be in the labour force at each real wage. We assume that an increase in the real wage increases the number of people wishing to work. The schedule AJ shows how many people accept job offers at each real wage. The schedule lies to the left of the LF schedule, both because some people are inevitably between jobs at any instant, and because a particular real wage may tempt some people into the labour force even though they will accept a job offer only if they find an offer with a rather higher real wage than average. Labour market equilibrium occurs at the point E. The employment level N* is the equilibrium or full-employment level. The distance EF is called the natural rate of un-employment. The natural rate of unemployment is the rate of unemployment when the labour market is in equilibrium. This unemployment is entirely voluntary. At the equilibrium real wage w"-, N, people want to be in the labour force but only N"- want to accept job offers; the remainder don't want to work at the equilibrium real wage. Which of our earlier types of unemployment must we include in the natural rate,of unemploy-ment? Certainly all frictional unemployment. But we should also include structural unemploy. ment. Suppose a skilled welder earned £150 a week before being made redundant. The issue is not why the worker became redundant (the decline of the steel industry), but why the worker refuses to take a lower wage as a dishwasher in order to get a job, or why steelworkers as a whole did not take a sufficient wage cut to allow the steel industry to remain profitable and com+ petitive at its former levels of output and em-ployment. If the answer is that steelworkers refuse to accept that the equilibrium wage for their skill has fallen, and refuse to work at wages lower than those to which they have been accus-tomed, then we must count this unemploymen as voluntary and include it in the natural rate. They are not prepared to work at the going wag rate but still want to be considered part of tlic. labour force. <br />
What about classical unemployment, for ex-., mple where unions maintain wages above their equilibrium level? This is shown in Figure 26-3 a wage rate w2 above w"-. Total unemploy-ment is now given by the distance AC. As indi-v iduals, a number of workers AB would like to ta ke jobs at the wage rate w2 but will be unable o find them since firms will wish to be at the point A. As individuals, these workers are in-voluntarily unemployed. A worker is involuntarily unemployed if he or she would accept a job offer at the going wage rate. lowever, through their unions, workers collec-t i v el y decide to opt for the wage rate w2 in excess 1 the equilibrium wage, thereby reducing the level of employment. Hence for workers as a w hole we must regard the extra unemployment .1., voluntary. Thus we also include classical imemployment in the natural rate of unemploy-ment. If in the long run unions maintain the w .1 gc lv,, the economy will remain at A and AC is the natural rate of unemployment. 'Ilk leaves only Keynesian or demand-deficient mei i t ployment. Such unemployment is involun-ta r v, being caused by sluggish labour market ustment beyond the control of individual workers or unions. Thus we can divide total unemployment into the equilibrium or natural ate the equilibrium level determined by normal labour market turnover, structural mi%itiatch, union power, and incentives in the 1,111( 1111. market — and Keynesian unemployment, ►ict lilies called demand-deficient or cyclical unemployment — the disequilibrium level of lily( )1tintary unemployment caused by the com-hin.ition of low aggregate demand and wage oilinstment which is sluggish for the reasons we t.N.iiiiined in the previous chapter. l'his division helps us think clearly about the guvernment policies required to tackle the un-employment problem. Since we have argued that fit the long run the economy will gradually niaiLage to get back to full employment through slow process of wage and price adjustment, Keynesian unemployment will eventually get rid <br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;">
of itself. But in the short run, Keynesian un-employment is the part of total unemployment that the government could help mop up by using fiscal and monetary policy to boost aggregate demand, rather than waiting for wage and price reductions to increase the real money supply and lower interest rates. In contrast, the natural rate of unemployment tells us the part of unemployment that will not be eliminated merely by restoring aggregate demand to its full-employment level. The natural rate is the 'full-employment' level of unemployment. To reduce the natural rate, supply-side policies operating on labour market incentives will be needed. This is the framework we employ for the rest of the chapter. We begin by investigating the large increase in unemployment over the last decade, in order to understand its causes more fully. Then we discuss the prospects for unem-ployment during the rest of the 1980s and the policy options open to the government.</div>
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
26-3 WHY IS UNEMPLOYMENT SO HIGH? </h3>
By 1983 the UK unemployment rate was more than eight times as high as it was in 1965. The task for empirical economists is to try to say how much of this increase was caused by an increase in the natural rate of unemployment and how much was caused by deficient demand and slugg-ish wage adjustment. In Table 26-4 we give some recent estimates of the forces at work, based on the work by Professor Steve Nickell of the London School of Economics. Nickell's esti-mates were derived from data on male unemployment, which is more comprehensively and reliably documented than the unemployment of women.' <br />
' For other attempts to estimate the natural rate of un-employment in the UK, see R. A. Batchelor and T. D. Sheriff, `Unemployment and Unanticipated Inflation in the UK', Economica, 1980; and Patrick Minford, Unemployment: Cause and Cure, Martin Robertson, 1983. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
In considering the prospects for unemploy-ment in the rest of the 1980s, we begin by looking at how the government could get the natural rate of unemployment down to a lower level. Then we consider how quickly Keynesian unemployment could be reduced. <br />
<h3 style="text-align: left;">
26-4 SUPPLY-SIDE ECONOMICS </h3>
Keynesians believe that the economy can deviate from full employment for quite a long time, cer-tainly for a period of several years. Monetarists believe that the classical full-employment model is relevant much more quickly. But everyone agrees that in the long run the performance of the economy can be changed only by affecting the level of full employment and the correspond-ing level of potential output. Supply-side economics is the use of micro-economic incentives to alter the level of full employment, the level of potential output, and the natural rate of unemployment. Although in this section we are interested chiefly in how to change the natural rate of unemploy-ment, it is convenient to discuss some of the wider implications of supply-side economics at the same time. We return to the determination of potential output in Chapter 29. <br />
Income Tax Cuts One of the key themes of supply-side economists is the benefits. that stem from reducing the marginal rate of income tax. The marginal rate of income tax is the fraction of each extra pound of income that the government takes in income tax. We discussed tax rates and work incentives in detail in Chapter 10. We pointed out that a cut in marginal tax rates, and a consequent increase in the take-home pay derived from the last hour's work, tend to make people substitute work for leisure. But against this substitution effect must be set an income effect. To the extent that people now pay less in taxes, they will have to do less work to obtain any given target living standard. <br />
Thus, theoretical economics cannot prove that income tax cuts increase the desired labour supply, and in fact most empirical studies con-firm that, at best, tax cuts lead to only a small increase in the supply of labour. We gave some details in Chapter 10 and give some more in Box 26-2. Figure 26-5 may be used to analyse the effect of a cut in marginal tax rates. The labour demand schedule LD shows that firms demand more workers at a lower real wage. We draw a steep schedule LF showing that higher after-tax real wage rates, at best, lead to only a small increase in the number of people wishing to be in the labour force. The schedule AJ shows how many <br />
FIGURE 26-5 A CUT IN MARGINAL INCOME TAX RATES. <br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEinEguyF6zy9c4s-8PdndUGeSQX7Y8IEZDywmjbazyhgPeS5d-6Fff8_88B_mp8jX33fKqKrsk8ujqUinvFlifllyubYzqQaX-g-9CEk7XLX7cUmHba6Bi7V7Q348d-bPsOAqHYXSoyoFiu/s1600/scan195.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEinEguyF6zy9c4s-8PdndUGeSQX7Y8IEZDywmjbazyhgPeS5d-6Fff8_88B_mp8jX33fKqKrsk8ujqUinvFlifllyubYzqQaX-g-9CEk7XLX7cUmHba6Bi7V7Q348d-bPsOAqHYXSoyoFiu/s640/scan195.jpg" width="380" /></a><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
An income tax makes the net-of-tax wage received by households lower than the gross wage paid by firms. When the vertical distance AB measures the amount each worker pays in income tax, equilibrium employment is N,, the quantity that households wish to supply at the after-tax wage w, and that firms demand at the gross wage w. At the after-tax wage w, the natural rate of unemployment is the horizontal distance BC. If income tax were abolished, equilibrium would be at E. Employment would rise from N, to N, and the natural rate of unemployment would fall from BC to EF. Relative to the fixed level of unemployment benefit, the rise in take-home pay from w, to w, reduces the level of voluntary unemployment.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEinEguyF6zy9c4s-8PdndUGeSQX7Y8IEZDywmjbazyhgPeS5d-6Fff8_88B_mp8jX33fKqKrsk8ujqUinvFlifllyubYzqQaX-g-9CEk7XLX7cUmHba6Bi7V7Q348d-bPsOAqHYXSoyoFiu/s1600/scan195.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><br />
</a></div>
<br />
wi <br />
LD <br />
Ni N2 Number of workers <br />
people wish to accept job offers at each real wage. It is drawn for a given (real) level of unemployment benefit. Hence the horizontal distance between the AJ and LF schedules — the it umber of people in the workforce refusing to work at each real wage, or the amount of voluntary unemployment — decreases as the real wage rises relative to the given level of un-employment benefit. Thus the figure incorporates lie fact that a reduction in the replacement ratio, t he ratio of unemployment benefit to wage rates, reduces voluntary unemployment. Suppose initially that there is a marginal 11 come tax rate equal to the vertical distance AB. lhe equilibrium level of employment will then he N, . Why? Because income tax drives a wedge between the gross-of-tax wages paid by firms the net-of-tax wages received by workers. At t lie employment level N, firms are happy to hire this quantity of labour at the gross wage w,. Subtracting the income tax rate AB, N, workers kN'allt to take job offers at the after-tax wage w3. I 'II us N, is the equilibrium level of employment. l'he horizontal distance BC shows the natural ,it e of unemployment, the number of workers in I In' labour force not wishing to work at the going r.i I e of take-home pay. To show the effect of a cut in marginal tax ales, suppose that income taxes were abolished. gross wage and the take-home pay now oiiicide, and the new labour market equilibrium IL, at L. Note that two things have happened. First the equilibrium level of employment has ri wit. Second, although more people wish to be III the labour force because take-home pay has increased from w, to w2, the natural rate of unemployment has fallen from the distance BC t > the smaller distance EF. A rise in take-home pay relative to unemployment benefit reduces I he level of voluntary unemployment. Si nil lar effects would be obtained if, instead of cti t t i lig income tax, the level of unemployment benefit were cut. For a given labour force schedule :1;, fewer people would now wish to he un-employed at any real wage. I fence the schedule (I I, showing acceptances of job of furs, would <br />
UNEMPLOYMENT 599 <br />
shift to the right. Again, the effect would be both to increase the equilibrium level of employment (and hence of potential output) and to reduce the natural rate of unemployment by reducing the replacement ratio. What about the effect of changes in the national insurance contributions paid both by firms and by workers? These are mandatory contributions to state schemes which provide unemployment and health insurance. They act like an income tax in driving a wedge AB between the total cost to a firm of hiring another worker and the net take-home pay of a worker. Figure 26-5 shows that a reduction in these contributions will increase the equilibrium level of employment, increase the equilibrium level of take-home pay, reduce the replacement ratio, and reduce the natural rate of unemployment. <br />
Other Policies Aimed at Labour Supply In Figure 26-3 we showed that, by restricting labour supply, unions could force firms up their labour demand schedule. In consequence, the equilibrium real wage would be higher but the equilibrium level of employment lower. Since a higher real wage reduces employment but (slightly) increases the number of people wishing to be in the labour force, we said that in raising real wages unions had increased the natural rate of unemployment. Collectively, labour had opted for higher wages and more unemployment. Conversely, the natural rate of unemployment will be reduced if the power of organized labour is weakened. Unions will then be less successful in restricting labour supply and forcing up wages. Hence any government intervention in the labour market to weaken the monopoly power of trade unions should be classified as a supply-side policy aimed at reducing the natural rate of unemployment and increasing equilibrium employment and potential output. Such policies would include changes in the law governing trade union activities, or incomes policies — direct regulation of wages — if the aim of the latter is to reduce real wages.'Phis need not he the sole aim <br />
<br />
<br />
<fieldset>
<span style="color: red;">BOX 26-2 </span><br />
DOES THE TAX CARROT WORK? <br />
Do tax cuts make people work harder? It is important to distinguish two aspects of the labour supply decision. <br />
HOW MANY HOURS TO WORK A lower marginal tax rate makes an extra hour of leisure more expensive in terms of the income and goods sacrificed by not working. It makes people substitute work for leisure. But tax cuts also increase workers' disposable incomes, making them want to consume more leisure. This income effect makes them want to work less. The table below is taken from a highly readable survey of incentive effects on labour supply, 'The Tax Carrot', by Professor Steve Nickell, published in Management Today, September 1980. Based on work by Professor Tony Atkinson of the London School of Economics and Professor Nick Stern of Warwick University, the table shows that the 1979 income tax cut in the UK should not have been expected to lead to a spon-taneous eruption of work effort. Nickell's survey shows that this is the over-whelming conclusion of many studies of work effort in the UK. <br />
EFFECT ON WORK EFFORT OF A CUT IN INCOME TAX RATES FROM 33 TO 30 PER CENT <br />
WORKERS WITH 1979 ANNUAL GROSS INCOME OF: £4800 £5460 £8990 £10 920 £13 759 <br />
— 2.1% — 1.8% — 0.4% + 0.2% + 1.8% <br />
WHETHER OR NOT TO WORK The second aspect of labour supply, and the one in which we are primarily interested in this chapter, is whether or not individuals want to work at all. Again we must consider the income and substitution effects of higher take-home pay on the decision about whether or not to work. The UK evidence, surveyed in C. V. Brown, Taxation and the Incentive to Work, Oxford University Press, 1980, shows that for men the income and substitution effects cancel out. However, for women higher take-home pay does lead to more women wishing to join the labour force. One possible reason, which we discussed in Chapter 10, is that at low wage rates it may not be possible to offset the costs (commuting, babysitters, etc.) that must be incurred when working. Hence in this chapter we assume that the labour force schedule LF is not vertical. Higher real wages increase the total number of people wishing to work, though not by very much. By increasing real take-home pay, income tax cuts will lead to a small increase in the labour force. </fieldset>
<br />
of incomes policies, as we explain in the next chapter. Earlier, we pointed out that frictional and structural unemployment are important com-ponents of the natural rate of unemployment. Policies aimed at reducing frictional and struc-t it ral unemployment should also be included in stipply-side economics. Their objective is to shift he AJ schedule to the right relative to any given position of the labour force schedule LF. Among such policies we include grants that llow redundant workers to retrain in relevant skills, and the various government measures introduced to help school-leavers develop skills and job experience for the first time. By making the labour force more suited to employers' needs, such policies aim to allow firms to make wage offers that unemployed workers will find ceptable. Hence such measures reduce voluntary unemployment. <br />
Policies Aimed at the Demand for Labour Thus far, we have emphasized policies aimed at t he supply of workers for employment. We now turn to the demand for workers by firms. In the previous chapter we saw that an adverse supply s I wk could reduce the demand for labour, shift-ing the LD schedule downwards. It seems plausible that the two dramatic rises in real oil prices in the 1970s had this effect. Overnight, many energy-intensive factories were inade economically obsolete by the rise in oil 1,rices. 'l'hey could no longer compete with more modern energy-saving plant. It was as if many 1st i ng firms had suffered a reduction in their usei HI capital stock. Since labour now had to )1-1K with a smaller quantity of relevant capital equipment, the marginal product of labour was !educed at each employment level. This can be I (presented in Figure 26-5 by a downward shift t be labour demand schedule LD. Try constructing your own diagram to show the effect of this. (Forget about income taxes and %1 .11A Iroiui the point F, in Figure 26-5.) If you draw the diagram correctly you will discover <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[more to follow if this chapter is not transcribed yet. <a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/10/boring-economics-teaching-is-interesting.html">It relates to a later post about bad economics teaching in the 1980s which ignored the manufacturing crisis that had caused 3-4 million people to be unemployed, many of them close to the campus, and preferred to teach the usual graphs and a lot of statistics that couldn't be used instead.</a>]<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the UK vegan shoe shop selling shoes boots and belts online</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-72051047666951544942011-10-01T17:47:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:25:23.514+01:00The problem with Ubercart<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
As I got to know Drupal and Ubercart better, I realised what an extraordinary thing a rambling open source project is. Anyone could suggest a module - whether they're a trained developer who writes a manual to go with it or a DIY hack like myself who finds something that works for them and releases it as a favour. It is possible to spend quite a lot of time learning the ins and outs of the system.<br />
<br />
After a month or two experimenting with Ubercart, I realised I was not alone. I was not the only person who couldn't make the shipping modules work. All I needed was three zones and a weight option, but apparently this involved things called Conditional Actions and a large amount of work, so better to wait until the new version of the cart came out that did away with them altogether. Or the favoured option seemed to be to move to emmigrate to the USA where there is a USPS and a Fedex module written in great detail with every combination of speed and state sales tax and tracking. Maybe someone would write something - even a simple thing - that covered three zones and a dozen or so weights, but the developers who worked on Ubercart seemed to be looking forward to something new. They'd noticed that ramshackle nature of Drupal 6 and Ubercart for those who have a problem to solve and are searching the forums. There was a new Drupal coming out any moment. I just had to wait a little while. Everything would be fine.<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-72182702628266905662011-10-01T17:43:00.002+01:002018-10-21T10:25:24.956+01:00Last year: installing Drupal<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Company history <br /><br />2010 was a special year for Oyster Bay Systems, celebrating 25 years in the commercial and consumer finance industries. <br /><br />Oyster Bay has helped finance companies gain profitability and efficiency for over 25 years with an expanding portfolio of products and services that is used throughout the UK, offshore financial communities and in Europe. <br /><br />Since winning their first contract a quarter of a century ago, Oyster Bay has grown consistently and steadily with its clients, empowering them to exploit opportunities and to achieve success. Oyster Bay's experience and range of products means it can provide the most appropriate system at each stage of a client company’s growth. <br /><br />Michael Breach, Managing Director explains "We are committed to adding business value, providing guaranteed support and services throughout project development, implementation and beyond". <br /><br />Oyster Bay prides itself in taking a true partnership approach in the way in which it works with its current and future customers. It is this approach that has forged successful long term relationships and placed Oyster Bay as the preferred choice for many companies over the years. <br /><br />As a software company that came into being during the 1980s, Oyster Bay has a distinct advantage in that it has evolved expertise and experience in response to many changes in the marketplace and to the legislative and regulatory demands of the times. <br /><br />Michael Breach said "I formed the company as a consultancy in 1983 writing software on Apple II computers. <br /><br />It soon became apparent that asset lenders were a niche badly in need of the benefits of computerisation. He explained: “it was pure chance that our initial clients were asset finance companies. They were using legacy systems usually comprising mainframe computers or even Kalamazoo-style ledger card mechanical tabulator, and it is sobering to think that there were hardly any spreadsheets or word processors to be seen anywhere.” <br /><br />An early client for Oyster Bay was Lloyds Bowmaker, which in 1983 commissioned Oyster Bay to develop a system for its joint venture with Caterpillar in Saudi Arabia. Michael recalled “We developed the software, which was an Apple II based CP/M networked system, and shipped it out to Saudi Arabia, all suitably conformed to Sharia Law.” <br /><br />A series of other new customers included Weston Acceptances, Larch Finance, Lancashire Leasing and the DC Cook Group. Michael recalled that “Client demand was mainly for administration systems including a route right through to collection procedures. At the same time, since we were obtaining consumer credit information for an increasing range of lending organisations, and since demand for payment profile information was on the increase, we fought to introduce the first consortium for consumer credit data submissions to UAPT which later became Equifax. This bureau facility is going strong today under the Profile Data Services label, and sends data to all three major UK credit bureau from a wide range of subscribers, big and small.” <br /><br />Oyster Bay’s offices were located at Swansea University’s Innovation Centre. In the early days this provided excellent shared reception and conference facilities, more importantly unlimited access to the University’s academic and computing departments proved very valuable. Michael said “When we eventually moved to larger premises we stayed close to the university since the advantages were still so obvious.” <br /><br />A significant breakthrough for the company came about following senior staff changes at NatWest’s Centrefile bureau which had been running asset-finance portfolios for several years. The result was that Oyster Bay came to inherit some 90 per cent of the Centrefile’s client base. Michael said: “one such was Lombard, which today is still using our software in its Marine, Channel Isle and Manx divisions.” <br /><br />A further event that propelled the company forward was winning the contract to supply Volvo Financial Services with the first installation of the pioneering Vienna system. "Looking back," says Michael, "this was the turn of the century, the internet was still basically an unknown force, and yet despite the difficulties surrounding the nascent techhnology, the project was completed very quickly and successfully. In my mind, it was a perfect example of the true meaning of 'the partnership approach', with both parties playing an active, positive and collaborative part in achieving the common goals." <br /><br />Although Oyster Bay has a number of products and services, Vienna remains the flagship system, and has been adopted by a number of significant lenders within the UK and in Europe as the 100% web based enterprise level system that is both fully functional and proven. Vienna provides straight-through processing with in-built workflow management features that control the movement of a proposal from point of sale, through to underwriting, payout and into ‘go-live’, all in real-time. <br /><br /> Michael explains that “Vienna came about as a result of the need to progress from systems in Microsoft DOS. The way forward seemed unclear at first and as we had determined that it would not be sensible to go the route of early Windows based systems, we spent some time in evaluating current platforms and attempting to forecast the future. <br /><br />It seemed probable, even at this early stage in the internet’s development, that the adoption of web-based systems would benefit clients. The end result was the development of a new front office underwriting system.” <br /><br />Vienna has recently been introduced into Volvo Financial Services’ Service Centre, North West Europe region, with one of the main goals being to have a single back office system capable of managing all of the North West region operations. This expansion means that Vienna is now being used to manage the UK, Southern Ireland and Netherlands (which includes a Russian division) portfolios. Michael said “I am pleased to say that the team, again by working in close collaboration with VFS’s staff, migrated the Southern Ireland and Netherlands portfolios onto Vienna in a very short space of time. ”. <br /><br />In the financial services marketplace, which has become acutely cost conscious, systems efficiency is a core business requirement, and Oyster Bay Systems has an established pedigree in serving the client, with a strong reputation for “getting it right”. The company delivers a compelling business proposition with high-quality off the shelf and tailored software solutions in a timely, cost-effective and efficient way. <br /><br />Oyster Bay has a range of solutions to manage portfolios of any size and all product types with end to end processing. It provides powerful, robust, scalable and secure solutions to support business requirements. These solutions can be used in-house or as hosted services, where shared cost access to on-line credit and asset search facilities is available. <br /><br />Oyster Bay never lose sight of the fact that “less can be more” for clients and end users. They believe that systems should be simple to use, transparent, flexible and proven. They should have the functionality to improve manual processes whilst delivering answers to issues raised by the challenging and constantly changing regulatory framework. <br /><br />New technologies that focus on how information and its surrounding processes are managed rather than simply on data capture and reporting are now central to Oyster Bay's proposition for the rest of the decade.<br /><br />----------------------<br />change of subject<br />-----------------------<br />This page used to be about installing Drupal but there are auto installers now...<br />I don't remember why, I just remember a lot of FTP installs of Drupal 6.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Drupal is no ordinary program to install. It talks to you on little notes attached in "readme.txt" files next to other files that have to be uploaded. It plays tricks on you, asking you to install new modules into a folder called<br /><br />/sites/all/modules<br /><br />rather than a more appealing folder called<br /><br />/modules<br /><br />which is just put there like a mermaid to distract seafairers.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Even when you have your modules in the right place, there file called default.settings.php which has to be renamed .settings.php and there are various read/write permissions which have to be changed temporarilly.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />There's another thing. Drupal comes with its own installer that you look at through a browser on your web site. It asks the route to your database and one or two other things I've now forgotten for Drupal 6. I have never had to press the onscreen buttons that my server provides to set-up a database before, nor given it a username and pass, nor thought how to describe a route to it. Localhost did in in the end, but the permutations of things that can go wrong took over a month to work-through. <br /><br /><br /><a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> from <a href="http://veganline.com/">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-87337445314321734972011-10-01T17:32:00.003+01:002018-10-21T10:25:26.334+01:00Last year: choosing a shopping cart<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
It all seems a long time ago now, but at some point I must have chosen to install a shopping cart on Drupal.<br />
<ul>
<li>Speed of loading</li>
<li>Flexibility</li>
<li>Price</li>
</ul>
Were all sensible grown-up reasons to do such a thing. Speed was meant to be good for search engine placement. I don't know if the current shopping cart is still fast but I am past caring - it was just a good idea at the time, that's all.<br />
<br />
Price was important at the time because I wasn't selling anything. The price of a Drupal web designer looked proposterous. Even if I'd be slower and more amateur, a DIY job was the only way to save money. Again, I'm just saying this seemed a good idea at the time.<br />
<br />
Lastly, Drupal-based carts are flexible. If you have different sales points to tag different products with, Drupal can work around this. A similar cart, Joomla with Virtuemart, allowed "manufacturer" and "brand" or some such hard-wired tags and everything else had to go in the text. This was no way to carry-on, so that's how bits of life began to revolve around this droplet-like group of programs, sometimes one at a time, and never all working together at once in a way that sold things like a shop.<br />
<br />
Similar post from 2015: <br />
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2015/06/shopping-cart-software-for-ecommerce.html">Free Fast and Pretty: choosing a shopping cart</a><br />
<br />
<hr align="LEFT" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-17669413976816216832011-04-23T10:20:00.002+01:002018-10-26T19:01:17.701+01:00Tone image and rank versus factOh dear this page has gone funnyVeganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6918438150183530009.post-81780530261406658902011-04-22T10:23:00.005+01:002018-10-21T10:25:29.543+01:00how you can build a taxonomy-based product catalog in drupal commerce<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;">
<iframe allowfullscreen="" height="331" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/21681203" width="500"></iframe><br />
<div style="color: red;">
This is an attempt to follow the instructions, as attempts to install Commerce Kickstart have failed.</div>
<br />
<h2 class="post-title entry-title" itemprop="name" style="text-align: left;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/2011/10/how-you-can-build-taxonomy-based.html">how you can build a taxonomy-based product catalog in drupal commerce</a></h2>
<br /><br />
If you look over here in my sidebar you will see that I have a catalog bloc<br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">On the mouse curser moving over this block, a dotted rectangle shows round it on the screen and an editing link like a cogwheel on the top right. If you set-up a site and log-in as administrator, the cogwheel will link you to the admin menu for that bloc or go via admin > structure > blocs and remember what it is called in that theme</span>..<br />
<br />
that lists out catalog catagories [<i>"coffee holders", "conference swag", and "wearables"</i>]<br />
...that are actually <a href="https://drupal.org/node/774892">Taxonomy Terms</a> linking them to their Taxonomy Term Pages:<br />
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders" title="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders">http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders</a><br />
[<i>this shows differently on the video because it shows the site when logged-on as admin. For admin, the term page shows a coffee holder with two tabs, "view" "edit", a paragraph describing the coffee mug and an add-to-cart form with a drop-down list, that moves your page from the one about black mugs to white mugs</i>]<br />
<br />
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">Looking over here at the sidebar I see </span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">-coffee holders, description</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--commerce guys mug in white, image, description, $10.00</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has a drop down menu for white or black and an add-to-cart button</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">-conference swag, description</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--messenger bag, image, description, $15</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--keyring pen, image of 3 pens, description, $4</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">-wearables, description</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--cap, image, description $12</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--T shirt called "e-commerce with Drupal", description, $8</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button and select button options S, M, L, XL</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--T shirt called "looking for smiling faces", description, $8</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button and select button options S, M, L, XL</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<span style="color: red;">--T shirt called "all tied-up", description, $8</span><span style="color: red;">---"read more" screen has an add-to-cart button and select button options S, M, L, XL</span></div>
<div style="font-family: inherit;">
<br /></div>
<br />
[<i>Taxonomy</i>]-Term Pages in Drupal 7 have been enhanced a little bit, allowing you to specify<br />
♦custom urls, [<i>eg example.com/coffee-holders</i>] allowing you to<br />
♦display a discription on a page, and giving you<br />
♦both a view and a quick edit link here to edit the Taxonomy Term settings.<br />
This particular one - Coffee Holders - has the description and it shows all of my -er different coffee holder products on the demo website.<br />
<br />
This [<i>"read more" link under the mug picture</i>] is just a Node Teaser List of Product Display Nodes. The <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/node/294">Product Display Node</a> being a special node type that I've made that has both a<br />
♦ Product Reference Field on it, that turns into this handy dynamic Add To Cart Form, and then it also has a<br />
♦ Taxonomy Term Reference Field on it,<br />
which you can see here lets me to tag this <i>[Product Display]</i> Node with a particular taxonomy term and links it back to its term page.<br />
<a href="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug" title="http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug">http://demo.commerceguys.com/dc/catalog/coffee-holders/mug</a><br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
1 Create a taxonomy vocabulary</span><br />
<br />
Now if you wanted to build something like this yourself, the first thing you would need to do, is to create a taxonomy vocabulary for your catalog:<br />
example.com/catalog/coffee-holders/mug#overlay=admin/structure/taxonomy<br />
admin>structure>taxonomy>edit vocabulary [<i>pictures at about 1'24" on the video</i>]<br />
So you can see here my catalog vocabulary, and if we look at the terms I've listed, my three terms are each present, and each one of them has a name, a description, and a custom url alias that just provides a nice search engine friendly url for this term page on the front.<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
2 Go build a menu; enable a bloc</span><br />
<br />
Once you've listed out each of your taxonomy terms, the next step is to go build a menu for this.<br />
So I'm going to go to stucture>menus, and you can see here that I have a catalog menu, where I have manually added links to each of the term pages.<br />
[<i>screen shows remembered "search engine friendly url" typed into the box. This can be found by going back to >structure>taxonomy>edit vocabulary to cut-and-paste</i>]<br />
Er - Whenever you create these links you can actually use the search engine friendly path that you have defined, and whenever you save this menu link, it will be converted to the actual Drupal path that has been assigned to that taxonomy term.<br />
Whenever you create a menu you automatically get a block, that you can then enable, to show that menu in any of your sidebars. Here ...<br />
structure>blocks [<i>first option on the structure tab</i>]<br />
...you can see my catalog menu block has been placed into the first sidebar. This is a region in the Corolla theme <i>which now has to be installed after Adaptive Themes Core. Once installed it has a tab on the blocks menu. From that tab you see the options shown in the video, where shopping cart, catalog, user menu and user login are all selected for the first sidebar</i>, and I've configured this bloc...<br />
[<i>from the "configure" link on the "catalog" line</i>]<br />
...to not appear on checkout pages - notice I've used checkout asterisk so it will block all of the checkout pages, so that whenever you go to checkout and are in any step of the checkout process, er you do not have a sidebar. I did this to reduce distraction and noise on the checkout form so that the customer doesn't have distraction and when they're trying to complete the checkout process and give you their nolas.<br />
Once you have<br />
♦ built the taxonomy vocabulary,<br />
♦ the menu item,<br />
♦ put your bloc in place...<br />
<span style="font-size: x-large;"><br />
3 Create a Product node type</span><br />
<br />
the next step is to actually have nodes showing-up in your teaser lists. Drupal Commerce will install a default product type whenever you first enable everything.<br />
store>products <i>second tab is "product type"</i><br />
On this demo site I also have a T shirt product type, um, for my T-shirt products, er: I'll discuss that in a different screencast [<i>about sized products</i>].<br />
Once you have product types though, the next step is to create a <a href="https://drupalcommerce.org/node/294">product display node type</a>. So I'm going to go to my Content Types menu.<br />
structure>content type <i>second option on the structure list</i><br />
You see here I have a product display node type, and the reason being: even though I have product types in the back end, I can list out all the products on my website on the back end, there is no automatic point of display for them on the front end. We've separated-out the front end from the back end in Drupal Commerce, er so that you have a lot more freedom to detirmine how you want to display products to your customers. Whether it's through product display nodes as I am , or some other method involving Views, or Pagemanager and Panels, or something else entirely!<br />
<br />
If we look at the fields that I have put on this product display node type, you can see both my product reference field, and my [<i>Taxonomy</i>] Term reference field.<br />
<br />
I like the autocomplete textfield widget...<a href="https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets" title="https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets">https://drupal.org/project/autocomplete_widgets</a>...because it lets me enter products on this node, using the product SKU with the product title with an autocomplete. And I can have as many as I want to, without having to bother with the multi-select select list, or perhaps just an overwhelming checkboxes list if you have many products on the website.<br />
I also have a catalog catagory term reference select list.<br />
So what you do is:<br />
whenever you add a term reference field, you have to choose which vocabulary this is for, and then of course the widget select list autocomplete radios [<i>radio buttons</i>] so that on the product page - which I'll go to this right now - um so that on its edit form, you get to specify how exactly... - I'm denoting which catalog catagory this belongs to. So you can see here my Product Reference Field with the autocomplete, my catalog term reference field with the select list, and again how this is presented on the front end, with an add to cart form, and a link going back to the term page.<br />
<br />
Well those are all the things that you need to know [<i>sic</i>], to build your taxonomy-based Drupal Commerce product catalog. Let me pull-up a .pdf here that shows you the different steps: [<i>in a different order on screen</i>]<br />
<br />
♦ Create a "Catalog" taxonomy vocabulary, with terms for each of your categories.<br />
♦ Create a "Product display" node type using a product reference field and a term reference field, and create nodes for your products.<br />
♦ Create a "Catalog" menu and display its block.<br />
<br /></div>
<hr align="left" />
<div style="text-align: right;">
<a href="https://veg-buildlog.blogspot.com/atom.xml?redirect=false&start-index=1&max-results=500">Blog on a single page</a> <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"></span></span></span>from <a href="http://veganline.com/" title="vegan footwear boots belts and shoes from Veganline.com">Veganline.com the vegan shoe shop</a></div>
</div>
Veganline.com for vegan shoes boots and beltshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14691394716207902112noreply@blogger.com0